1 00:00:05,646 --> 00:00:10,685 Speaker 1: You're listening to a mom and me podcast. 2 00:00:11,006 --> 00:00:14,286 Speaker 2: Hi, it's Cassne Lukige here, host of Diary of a Birth, 3 00:00:14,566 --> 00:00:17,925 Speaker 2: and this summer we've curated your delivery room playlist to 4 00:00:17,966 --> 00:00:21,526 Speaker 2: bring you even more unmissable birth stories. This summer, we're 5 00:00:21,566 --> 00:00:24,286 Speaker 2: bringing you our favorite episodes of Diary of a Birth 6 00:00:24,526 --> 00:00:27,926 Speaker 2: right here in your feet. That's your holiday listening sworded 7 00:00:28,366 --> 00:00:30,806 Speaker 2: And if you're looking for more to listen to, every 8 00:00:30,846 --> 00:00:34,205 Speaker 2: Mum and mea podcast is curating your summer listening right 9 00:00:34,246 --> 00:00:38,565 Speaker 2: across our network. From pop culture to beauty to powerful interviews, 10 00:00:38,726 --> 00:00:39,885 Speaker 2: there's something for everyone. 11 00:00:40,126 --> 00:00:46,005 Speaker 1: Check out the link in the show notes. Hi, I'm 12 00:00:46,086 --> 00:00:50,206 Speaker 1: Cassennua Lukich and this is Diary of a Birth. There's 13 00:00:50,245 --> 00:00:53,486 Speaker 1: an old adage that a woman forgets the pain and 14 00:00:53,565 --> 00:00:57,326 Speaker 1: trauma of birth so that we continue to have them. 15 00:00:57,526 --> 00:01:00,406 Speaker 1: It's nature at work. I've looked back at my own 16 00:01:00,446 --> 00:01:03,486 Speaker 1: births and gone, oh, it wasn't that bad. But let's 17 00:01:03,566 --> 00:01:07,926 Speaker 1: be real, it's hard work, and so often a woman's 18 00:01:08,046 --> 00:01:13,086 Speaker 1: mental health in subsequent pregnancies is overlooked. Today's mum was 19 00:01:13,286 --> 00:01:15,886 Speaker 1: riddled with anxiety when she felt pregnant for a second 20 00:01:15,966 --> 00:01:19,606 Speaker 1: time with Irish twins. No less, and while she delivered 21 00:01:19,606 --> 00:01:23,406 Speaker 1: two perfectly healthy babies, that was something that played on 22 00:01:23,486 --> 00:01:23,926 Speaker 1: her mind. 23 00:01:26,366 --> 00:01:30,926 Speaker 3: I became quite terrified of giving birth during that second pregnancy. 24 00:01:31,246 --> 00:01:34,286 Speaker 3: It was like I knew it was coming, and I 25 00:01:34,406 --> 00:01:36,726 Speaker 3: kind of had these, you know, little flashbacks of what 26 00:01:36,766 --> 00:01:38,286 Speaker 3: it was like with Noah with a. 27 00:01:38,326 --> 00:01:42,486 Speaker 1: Curve spine, making an epertural more challenging. She was adamant 28 00:01:42,486 --> 00:01:45,726 Speaker 1: on being prepared, but her little one was eager to 29 00:01:45,726 --> 00:01:49,166 Speaker 1: meet her, coming into the world with a single push, 30 00:01:49,606 --> 00:01:53,926 Speaker 1: a truly expressed checkout. So let's meet today's mum. 31 00:01:54,566 --> 00:01:57,446 Speaker 3: Hi, my name's Nicolina and this is the diary of 32 00:01:57,486 --> 00:02:00,446 Speaker 3: my birth with Leo. 33 00:02:03,806 --> 00:02:06,966 Speaker 1: Okay, so, Nikki, you you had your two babies very 34 00:02:07,006 --> 00:02:09,125 Speaker 1: close together. How far apart were they. 35 00:02:09,246 --> 00:02:13,166 Speaker 3: They ended up being sixteen months apart upon birth, so 36 00:02:13,446 --> 00:02:14,406 Speaker 3: very close. 37 00:02:14,805 --> 00:02:18,766 Speaker 1: So what was life like when you fell pregnant with Leo? 38 00:02:19,405 --> 00:02:22,286 Speaker 3: It was challenging in the sense of I had no 39 00:02:22,405 --> 00:02:24,965 Speaker 3: time to do the things that I really leaned into 40 00:02:25,046 --> 00:02:27,926 Speaker 3: with my first pregnancy, like the excuse to have a 41 00:02:28,046 --> 00:02:32,446 Speaker 3: nap or to lay down or to work from home 42 00:02:32,486 --> 00:02:34,566 Speaker 3: because I was a bit too tired to hop on 43 00:02:34,606 --> 00:02:37,645 Speaker 3: the train and I was super pregnant. I just had 44 00:02:37,645 --> 00:02:40,886 Speaker 3: to go go go with Leo. So I didn't really 45 00:02:41,166 --> 00:02:44,326 Speaker 3: think about the pregnancy a lot. I didn't really have 46 00:02:44,525 --> 00:02:47,526 Speaker 3: time to even, you know, grasp if I was feeling 47 00:02:47,566 --> 00:02:50,006 Speaker 3: sick or anything, which I think maybe was a good 48 00:02:50,006 --> 00:02:53,206 Speaker 3: thing because I kind of skipped any of the bad symptoms. 49 00:02:53,645 --> 00:02:56,806 Speaker 3: I did have a really cruisy pregnancy, apart from a 50 00:02:56,805 --> 00:02:59,766 Speaker 3: bit of pelvic pain. I remember that was a bit 51 00:02:59,805 --> 00:03:02,166 Speaker 3: of an issue towards the end. But it's not like 52 00:03:02,206 --> 00:03:05,006 Speaker 3: I had time to exercise anyway, because I had a toddler, 53 00:03:05,206 --> 00:03:08,326 Speaker 3: so that wasn't a problem. So I feel like I 54 00:03:08,846 --> 00:03:11,965 Speaker 3: cruised through in the sense of I wasn't thinking or 55 00:03:12,046 --> 00:03:15,086 Speaker 3: overthinking the pregnancy too much. But it was really tricky 56 00:03:15,085 --> 00:03:17,966 Speaker 3: in terms of exhaustion, in terms of having to pick 57 00:03:18,006 --> 00:03:20,046 Speaker 3: Noah up still. You know, I had to pick him 58 00:03:20,085 --> 00:03:23,245 Speaker 3: up still. He actually wasn't walking until a month before 59 00:03:23,326 --> 00:03:25,726 Speaker 3: Leo was born, and that was tricky. 60 00:03:25,925 --> 00:03:28,006 Speaker 1: The other thing is, as well, you're not like checking 61 00:03:28,006 --> 00:03:30,926 Speaker 1: the app every five seconds, being like it's the size 62 00:03:30,925 --> 00:03:34,046 Speaker 1: of a banana, it's the size of a melon. 63 00:03:34,726 --> 00:03:37,966 Speaker 3: Yeah, I had no idea what fruit size Leo was 64 00:03:38,046 --> 00:03:41,686 Speaker 3: at any point. Of course, went to all the appropriate checkups, 65 00:03:42,126 --> 00:03:45,566 Speaker 3: but yet true second child in that he didn't get 66 00:03:45,966 --> 00:03:49,326 Speaker 3: too much attention in terms of any physical aspect of 67 00:03:49,366 --> 00:03:52,286 Speaker 3: the pregnancy. I just kept growing bigger and bigger. Things 68 00:03:52,286 --> 00:03:55,206 Speaker 3: got harder and harder when it came to Noah, and yeah, 69 00:03:55,246 --> 00:03:55,966 Speaker 3: we got to the end. 70 00:03:56,566 --> 00:04:00,166 Speaker 1: Some of the complications that you found with your first pregnancy. 71 00:04:00,446 --> 00:04:04,806 Speaker 1: You've got a curve in your spine, How did that 72 00:04:04,846 --> 00:04:09,766 Speaker 1: affect you or I guess anxiety or stresses around giving 73 00:04:09,806 --> 00:04:10,926 Speaker 1: birth to number two. 74 00:04:11,326 --> 00:04:15,686 Speaker 3: So when I was pregnant with Noah, I was very 75 00:04:16,326 --> 00:04:19,126 Speaker 3: kind of blase about the birth. I think it was 76 00:04:19,206 --> 00:04:22,686 Speaker 3: because when you first fell pregnant, you actually have no 77 00:04:22,966 --> 00:04:26,325 Speaker 3: idea what birth will be like. You have an idea 78 00:04:26,366 --> 00:04:28,926 Speaker 3: in terms of like people say it's painful, but what 79 00:04:28,966 --> 00:04:31,965 Speaker 3: does that mean? You have never felt that pain. So 80 00:04:32,526 --> 00:04:36,325 Speaker 3: I was very thankful for the oblivion I was living in. 81 00:04:36,966 --> 00:04:40,926 Speaker 3: So then when I got pregnant with Leo and I 82 00:04:41,086 --> 00:04:44,205 Speaker 3: realized that birth was coming, and I knew much more 83 00:04:44,325 --> 00:04:48,005 Speaker 3: about birth. I knew what a contraction felt like, I 84 00:04:48,086 --> 00:04:51,205 Speaker 3: knew how scary it was to wait for each one 85 00:04:51,325 --> 00:04:53,966 Speaker 3: and not know when they were coming, and also, you know, 86 00:04:54,086 --> 00:04:56,246 Speaker 3: try and figure out if I was in labor. I 87 00:04:56,325 --> 00:04:59,686 Speaker 3: knew all of it. I became quite terrified of giving 88 00:04:59,726 --> 00:05:03,246 Speaker 3: birth during that second pregnancy. It was like I knew 89 00:05:03,246 --> 00:05:06,726 Speaker 3: it was coming, and I kind of had these, you know, 90 00:05:06,765 --> 00:05:09,486 Speaker 3: little flashbacks of what it was like with Noah, and 91 00:05:09,526 --> 00:05:11,445 Speaker 3: then on the other side of it was as well 92 00:05:11,486 --> 00:05:13,806 Speaker 3: with Noah. Whilst, you know, I'm really grateful I had 93 00:05:13,846 --> 00:05:17,806 Speaker 3: a pretty, i want to say cruisy enough birth with Noah. 94 00:05:17,885 --> 00:05:21,246 Speaker 3: I didn't have any major complications. It was a natural birth. 95 00:05:21,325 --> 00:05:23,645 Speaker 3: I didn't go into an emergency C section or anything 96 00:05:23,686 --> 00:05:27,085 Speaker 3: like that. One part of the birth was the tricky 97 00:05:27,126 --> 00:05:30,046 Speaker 3: part of my epidural. I went into Noah's birth with 98 00:05:30,126 --> 00:05:32,366 Speaker 3: no birth plan. I'm a no birth plan kind of person. 99 00:05:32,445 --> 00:05:35,126 Speaker 3: My only plan is that I want the epidural, and 100 00:05:35,166 --> 00:05:38,366 Speaker 3: I made that very clear to my midwife throughout the 101 00:05:38,366 --> 00:05:40,326 Speaker 3: whole thing. I think I reminded her like six seven 102 00:05:40,366 --> 00:05:44,126 Speaker 3: times every appointment. So I went in for my epidural. 103 00:05:44,246 --> 00:05:46,005 Speaker 3: I remember sitting on the side of the bed and 104 00:05:46,046 --> 00:05:49,926 Speaker 3: the doctor started doing his thing and it kind of 105 00:05:49,926 --> 00:05:53,005 Speaker 3: went a bit silent, and he goes, hmm, I'm going 106 00:05:53,046 --> 00:05:55,126 Speaker 3: to have to call someone in. I thought that was 107 00:05:55,166 --> 00:05:57,806 Speaker 3: really weird. Why why can't you just do it yourself 108 00:05:58,526 --> 00:06:02,806 Speaker 3: and somebody else came in wheeling in an ultrasound machine, 109 00:06:03,246 --> 00:06:04,926 Speaker 3: which was weird, and I knew it was an ultrasound 110 00:06:04,926 --> 00:06:08,005 Speaker 3: machine because I had ultrasounds done. And he said that 111 00:06:08,086 --> 00:06:11,286 Speaker 3: I had a curved spine and that it was getting 112 00:06:11,366 --> 00:06:14,246 Speaker 3: quite tricky to find the point at which they need 113 00:06:14,246 --> 00:06:15,885 Speaker 3: to put the needle into the spine. 114 00:06:15,966 --> 00:06:18,766 Speaker 1: Did you know that you had a curved spine before this? 115 00:06:19,606 --> 00:06:23,325 Speaker 3: I had no idea that my spine was curved. Is 116 00:06:23,366 --> 00:06:26,085 Speaker 3: that a thing? That's what I said to the doctor. 117 00:06:26,166 --> 00:06:30,126 Speaker 3: I said, what's that? Why is that an issue? And 118 00:06:30,166 --> 00:06:32,445 Speaker 3: he just said, it's you know, it's just slightly curved 119 00:06:32,486 --> 00:06:35,886 Speaker 3: to a particular side. It's not an issue, but obviously 120 00:06:35,926 --> 00:06:38,606 Speaker 3: it makes a trickier to get this needle in. So 121 00:06:38,646 --> 00:06:41,926 Speaker 3: that was a real big surprise at the time. Luckily 122 00:06:42,325 --> 00:06:45,366 Speaker 3: the ultrasound machine helped. Took a little bit longer, but 123 00:06:45,526 --> 00:06:48,126 Speaker 3: we got the epidural in and I didn't have any 124 00:06:48,166 --> 00:06:52,006 Speaker 3: issues from then on. But knowing that, when I fell 125 00:06:52,086 --> 00:06:54,885 Speaker 3: pregnant with Leo and went into my second midwife appointment 126 00:06:55,565 --> 00:06:58,526 Speaker 3: for his birth, I was very clear with her. I said, 127 00:06:58,966 --> 00:07:02,086 Speaker 3: I had this thing with my spine in my first berth. 128 00:07:02,126 --> 00:07:04,405 Speaker 3: I really don't want it to happen again. Can we 129 00:07:04,445 --> 00:07:07,525 Speaker 3: flag that now with the doctors, with whoever needs to know? 130 00:07:08,005 --> 00:07:10,286 Speaker 3: And I actually ended up having an appointment one on 131 00:07:10,286 --> 00:07:12,886 Speaker 3: one with the anetheist and you know, had a really 132 00:07:12,926 --> 00:07:15,046 Speaker 3: good one on one chat and they spoke to me 133 00:07:15,086 --> 00:07:17,046 Speaker 3: about you know, they're very well prepared, they have my 134 00:07:17,126 --> 00:07:19,606 Speaker 3: scans and it'll all be fine. But that was also 135 00:07:19,686 --> 00:07:22,326 Speaker 3: terrifying because I thought, what if another issue comes up 136 00:07:22,366 --> 00:07:23,166 Speaker 3: with the epidural. 137 00:07:23,406 --> 00:07:25,285 Speaker 1: Yeah, so you've got that in the back of your head. 138 00:07:25,766 --> 00:07:29,966 Speaker 1: You're having a pretty good pregnancy generally though, like any 139 00:07:30,006 --> 00:07:32,126 Speaker 1: other issues throughout your pregnancy. 140 00:07:32,646 --> 00:07:34,326 Speaker 3: No, I think it all came down to, you know, 141 00:07:34,366 --> 00:07:36,726 Speaker 3: that pelvic pain at the end. It was in bed 142 00:07:36,846 --> 00:07:39,046 Speaker 3: for quite a bit of the last few weeks when 143 00:07:39,046 --> 00:07:42,926 Speaker 3: I could obviously toddler running around was limited, but I 144 00:07:43,206 --> 00:07:46,845 Speaker 3: was whilst physically fine, I was quite terrified. So the 145 00:07:46,886 --> 00:07:50,326 Speaker 3: countdown started to become like very obvious that last month 146 00:07:50,766 --> 00:07:53,406 Speaker 3: that birth was coming, which meant contractions are coming, which 147 00:07:53,446 --> 00:07:56,686 Speaker 3: meant labors coming. I just knew that was coming, and 148 00:07:56,726 --> 00:08:00,086 Speaker 3: that was getting quite overwhelming, and I was getting quite 149 00:08:00,086 --> 00:08:02,566 Speaker 3: anxious about that and when it would happen, because the 150 00:08:02,606 --> 00:08:06,806 Speaker 3: other part of it is Noah was induced, so I 151 00:08:06,886 --> 00:08:10,046 Speaker 3: also didn't know what it was like to naturally go 152 00:08:10,126 --> 00:08:12,246 Speaker 3: into labor, and I was also really afraid of that. 153 00:08:12,606 --> 00:08:15,246 Speaker 1: So a lot of anxiety around that. Did you have 154 00:08:15,326 --> 00:08:18,366 Speaker 1: any sort of help from anyone to kind of help 155 00:08:18,406 --> 00:08:19,726 Speaker 1: with that anxiety? 156 00:08:20,206 --> 00:08:23,166 Speaker 3: Yeah, So I ended up actually going to therapy during 157 00:08:23,286 --> 00:08:26,606 Speaker 3: my second pregnancy. I saw a therapist for you know, 158 00:08:26,646 --> 00:08:30,086 Speaker 3: an array of things, and that was not just about 159 00:08:30,126 --> 00:08:33,206 Speaker 3: the birth, but also about I had developed postnatal blues 160 00:08:33,206 --> 00:08:35,285 Speaker 3: with Noah, and that was something that I was also 161 00:08:35,326 --> 00:08:37,646 Speaker 3: fearful of that would come back or spring back on 162 00:08:37,726 --> 00:08:40,405 Speaker 3: me when Lea was born. But part of those therapy 163 00:08:40,446 --> 00:08:44,846 Speaker 3: sessions were talking through that anxiety around birth approaching, and 164 00:08:44,886 --> 00:08:46,886 Speaker 3: you know, there's only so much you can do about that. 165 00:08:47,366 --> 00:08:49,646 Speaker 3: You know, people say, you know, when you get pregnant, well, 166 00:08:49,646 --> 00:08:51,566 Speaker 3: they've got to come out some way. So I knew 167 00:08:51,606 --> 00:08:54,966 Speaker 3: he had to come out. But I tried to, you know, 168 00:08:55,006 --> 00:08:57,646 Speaker 3: be super positive about it. I tried to remind myself 169 00:08:57,646 --> 00:09:00,166 Speaker 3: that I had a pretty positive first birth, that things 170 00:09:00,165 --> 00:09:02,086 Speaker 3: would be okay, that I was taking the precautions, I 171 00:09:02,126 --> 00:09:05,126 Speaker 3: was speaking to the doctors about my concerns, and I 172 00:09:05,165 --> 00:09:07,006 Speaker 3: was just kind of hoping for the best by the 173 00:09:07,086 --> 00:09:07,486 Speaker 3: end of it. 174 00:09:07,726 --> 00:09:11,806 Speaker 1: Did you have a plan with Leo? Was there a 175 00:09:11,846 --> 00:09:13,326 Speaker 1: birth plan for him? 176 00:09:13,846 --> 00:09:16,926 Speaker 3: So my birth plan was very much the same in 177 00:09:17,966 --> 00:09:21,726 Speaker 3: I was happy to try going to natural labor. I 178 00:09:21,806 --> 00:09:24,165 Speaker 3: understood that the first time I needed to be induced, 179 00:09:24,246 --> 00:09:27,366 Speaker 3: but I did want to. I don't want to say 180 00:09:27,405 --> 00:09:29,886 Speaker 3: avoid that the second time around, but I think just 181 00:09:30,045 --> 00:09:33,486 Speaker 3: you know, the less intervention possible, the better. So that 182 00:09:33,566 --> 00:09:37,045 Speaker 3: was a goal of mine. I would say, but I'm 183 00:09:37,086 --> 00:09:39,486 Speaker 3: happy to leave it to the doctors. I know their professionals. 184 00:09:39,526 --> 00:09:42,246 Speaker 3: I know it was a really good hospital. But again, 185 00:09:42,686 --> 00:09:46,405 Speaker 3: my major reminder for my midwife was that I wanted 186 00:09:46,446 --> 00:09:50,326 Speaker 3: that epidural ready to go. It's funny about epidurals because 187 00:09:50,326 --> 00:09:52,366 Speaker 3: I think I admire so many of my friends who 188 00:09:52,366 --> 00:09:55,406 Speaker 3: have gone into natural labor, not used any pain medication 189 00:09:55,566 --> 00:09:58,006 Speaker 3: or any help in that sense. But I'm very much 190 00:09:58,045 --> 00:10:00,045 Speaker 3: of the thinking of if I've a headache, I take 191 00:10:00,086 --> 00:10:02,446 Speaker 3: a pat at all, Like, I'm not sitting through that headache. 192 00:10:02,606 --> 00:10:04,685 Speaker 1: I'm so with you, Nicky, I'm so with you. 193 00:10:06,606 --> 00:10:09,446 Speaker 3: So in my mind, for me, it did not make 194 00:10:09,526 --> 00:10:13,166 Speaker 3: sense not to get an epidural. I was all for it. 195 00:10:13,285 --> 00:10:16,086 Speaker 3: I was like have that ready to go, and to 196 00:10:16,126 --> 00:10:17,846 Speaker 3: the point at which I remember when I went into 197 00:10:17,926 --> 00:10:19,806 Speaker 3: labor with Leo. I was kind of walking down the 198 00:10:19,806 --> 00:10:22,726 Speaker 3: hallway and I was like yelling it at my midwife, 199 00:10:22,726 --> 00:10:25,325 Speaker 3: like I'm here and I'm ready for the epidural. I'm 200 00:10:25,366 --> 00:10:28,526 Speaker 3: ready for the epidural. You were fixator? Yeah, okay. 201 00:10:28,606 --> 00:10:31,046 Speaker 1: So you get towards the end of your pregnancy with Leo, 202 00:10:32,045 --> 00:10:35,366 Speaker 1: You've got this anxiety of what's going to happen this 203 00:10:35,405 --> 00:10:39,006 Speaker 1: time around? Did you go into labor naturally with him? 204 00:10:39,446 --> 00:10:42,646 Speaker 3: So? I did go into labor naturally with Leo, and 205 00:10:42,686 --> 00:10:45,926 Speaker 3: it was a super casual Monday, I was at home 206 00:10:45,926 --> 00:10:48,246 Speaker 3: with Noah. It was my one day at home with 207 00:10:48,446 --> 00:10:50,326 Speaker 3: him during the week because I was working at a 208 00:10:50,326 --> 00:10:54,766 Speaker 3: time and I had plans with friends. I had brunch plans, 209 00:10:54,806 --> 00:10:58,446 Speaker 3: and I was not canceling my brunch plans because you know, 210 00:10:58,526 --> 00:11:00,566 Speaker 3: as a mum, you just get no time to see 211 00:11:00,566 --> 00:11:03,886 Speaker 3: your friends. So I'd made these plans and I thought, 212 00:11:04,285 --> 00:11:08,646 Speaker 3: I'm definitely going to brunch to but my contractions very 213 00:11:09,165 --> 00:11:12,646 Speaker 3: you know, low level contractions started in the morning, probably 214 00:11:12,686 --> 00:11:13,886 Speaker 3: about an hour before brunch. 215 00:11:14,006 --> 00:11:15,486 Speaker 1: How far along were you Where were you at? 216 00:11:15,806 --> 00:11:19,566 Speaker 3: I was at about thirty eight weeks with Leo. Okay, yeah, 217 00:11:19,726 --> 00:11:22,806 Speaker 3: brunches on, I'm not canceling, And my midwife said the 218 00:11:22,806 --> 00:11:24,926 Speaker 3: same thing. Go to brunch, go for a walk. It 219 00:11:24,966 --> 00:11:28,805 Speaker 3: was down the road. You'll be fine. It's low level contractions. 220 00:11:28,926 --> 00:11:31,406 Speaker 3: They're very far apart. And give me a call, you know, 221 00:11:31,446 --> 00:11:34,126 Speaker 3: once you finished. So I did. I actually walked. I'd 222 00:11:34,165 --> 00:11:36,686 Speaker 3: pushed the pram with not wanting it to brunch. I 223 00:11:36,766 --> 00:11:39,126 Speaker 3: told my friends, who none of them had kids at 224 00:11:39,165 --> 00:11:42,446 Speaker 3: the time, so they were petrified the whole lunch. They 225 00:11:42,526 --> 00:11:45,006 Speaker 3: were just watching for my water to break like in 226 00:11:45,045 --> 00:11:47,366 Speaker 3: the movies. I had to remind them that that's not 227 00:11:47,446 --> 00:11:50,085 Speaker 3: actually that common. But we had brunch. I had a 228 00:11:50,086 --> 00:11:52,165 Speaker 3: great meal, and then I walked back and that's kind 229 00:11:52,165 --> 00:11:54,246 Speaker 3: of when things started to ramp up when I had 230 00:11:54,285 --> 00:11:56,925 Speaker 3: gotten home. So I called my husband. He had come 231 00:11:56,966 --> 00:11:59,686 Speaker 3: home from work, just to you know, be safe. But 232 00:11:59,726 --> 00:12:02,926 Speaker 3: again my midwife was super chill, so she just said, 233 00:12:02,926 --> 00:12:05,166 Speaker 3: it's going to take a really long time. You know, 234 00:12:05,206 --> 00:12:08,085 Speaker 3: you haven't done it naturally yet. This is what happens. 235 00:12:08,206 --> 00:12:10,166 Speaker 3: It takes a while. You need to stay home for 236 00:12:10,165 --> 00:12:12,686 Speaker 3: as long as possible and keep comfortable. You know. I 237 00:12:12,726 --> 00:12:15,806 Speaker 3: love being in the hospital because I like to know 238 00:12:15,886 --> 00:12:18,766 Speaker 3: that there's help around me. So that was also hard 239 00:12:18,766 --> 00:12:21,406 Speaker 3: for me because I was quite anxious. But you know, 240 00:12:21,686 --> 00:12:24,326 Speaker 3: midwives know what they're talking about. So I thought, I'll 241 00:12:24,405 --> 00:12:26,126 Speaker 3: just stay at home. And you know, it is more 242 00:12:26,165 --> 00:12:28,126 Speaker 3: comfortable to lay in bed than it is to sit 243 00:12:28,206 --> 00:12:31,326 Speaker 3: on a chair or you know, walk around a maternity 244 00:12:31,366 --> 00:12:35,006 Speaker 3: ward feeling contractions. So I did stay home. I watched 245 00:12:35,045 --> 00:12:37,285 Speaker 3: a bit of Kardashians. I got a couple of episodes 246 00:12:37,326 --> 00:12:40,006 Speaker 3: in and then it was pretty much go time. I 247 00:12:40,006 --> 00:12:42,926 Speaker 3: could feel it quite a bit at that time, and 248 00:12:43,486 --> 00:12:47,766 Speaker 3: I was very calm by that point. My anxiety didn't 249 00:12:47,806 --> 00:12:50,285 Speaker 3: really peek through too much. But when it started to 250 00:12:50,285 --> 00:12:53,526 Speaker 3: get quite painful, I then started to get quite anxious 251 00:12:53,566 --> 00:12:56,326 Speaker 3: being at home and not being at the hospital and 252 00:12:56,405 --> 00:12:59,446 Speaker 3: not having my abjural, and you know, just knowing that 253 00:12:59,446 --> 00:13:01,606 Speaker 3: there was a lot to come. Still there was still 254 00:13:01,646 --> 00:13:03,886 Speaker 3: getting to the hospital. They were still getting into the room, 255 00:13:04,405 --> 00:13:07,846 Speaker 3: you know, ordering and epitural, getting checked, how many centemonies 256 00:13:07,926 --> 00:13:10,486 Speaker 3: are you dilated? Again? This was that anxiety of knowing 257 00:13:10,526 --> 00:13:13,405 Speaker 3: what went down and knowing that that's about to come, 258 00:13:13,486 --> 00:13:16,246 Speaker 3: and that's really daunting. So I started to feel that 259 00:13:16,326 --> 00:13:18,206 Speaker 3: and I just wanted to get to the hospital at 260 00:13:18,206 --> 00:13:18,846 Speaker 3: that point. 261 00:13:19,086 --> 00:13:23,046 Speaker 1: It sounds like the anxiety of knowing what it was 262 00:13:23,126 --> 00:13:27,046 Speaker 1: like last time really like overtook you, which is so 263 00:13:27,165 --> 00:13:30,646 Speaker 1: normal with so many women. You know, we obviously have 264 00:13:30,686 --> 00:13:32,726 Speaker 1: a lot of fear around the first time that we 265 00:13:32,766 --> 00:13:36,646 Speaker 1: give birth, but if you have something that not necessarily 266 00:13:36,686 --> 00:13:40,246 Speaker 1: goes wrong the first time, it kind of lingers if 267 00:13:40,285 --> 00:13:41,566 Speaker 1: you've got to go do it all again. 268 00:13:41,966 --> 00:13:44,925 Speaker 3: Yeah, you know. I remember my husband. I said to him, 269 00:13:44,926 --> 00:13:47,405 Speaker 3: I'm just like, I'm really scared. I said, I'm really scared. 270 00:13:47,526 --> 00:13:49,966 Speaker 3: I know these contractions are going to get worse, and 271 00:13:50,006 --> 00:13:52,446 Speaker 3: you know, being really nice and trying to be really supportive, 272 00:13:52,526 --> 00:13:54,925 Speaker 3: he said, but it'll be fine, Like you've done it before, 273 00:13:55,165 --> 00:13:57,606 Speaker 3: so you can do it again. And I just turned 274 00:13:57,606 --> 00:14:00,366 Speaker 3: to him and I said, so, if you broke your leg, 275 00:14:00,886 --> 00:14:03,366 Speaker 3: would you do it again? You know, would you do 276 00:14:03,446 --> 00:14:06,646 Speaker 3: it again? No? Okay, but I didn't have a choice, 277 00:14:06,886 --> 00:14:09,406 Speaker 3: but I have. I've felt pain, and I know that 278 00:14:09,526 --> 00:14:12,166 Speaker 3: pain's coming back around. Yeah, so he got a bit 279 00:14:12,206 --> 00:14:12,646 Speaker 3: of a grilling. 280 00:14:12,766 --> 00:14:14,686 Speaker 1: Yeah, there's no one that you hate more than your 281 00:14:14,726 --> 00:14:16,206 Speaker 1: partner when you're in labor. 282 00:14:16,446 --> 00:14:17,966 Speaker 3: I despise. 283 00:14:18,285 --> 00:14:21,166 Speaker 1: So when did you decide to go into the hospital. 284 00:14:21,646 --> 00:14:25,246 Speaker 3: So it had probably been about two or three hours 285 00:14:25,446 --> 00:14:28,766 Speaker 3: since I had gone to brunch, so a couple of hours. 286 00:14:29,046 --> 00:14:31,766 Speaker 3: I still thought I probably was going in a little 287 00:14:31,766 --> 00:14:35,366 Speaker 3: bit early. But again something in me I was really anxious. 288 00:14:35,926 --> 00:14:40,686 Speaker 3: I was uncomfortable at home. It was getting more painful. Again. 289 00:14:40,766 --> 00:14:44,206 Speaker 3: I hadn't experienced a natural labor yet, So whilst my 290 00:14:44,246 --> 00:14:48,206 Speaker 3: midwife was telling me to time out these contractions, I thought, 291 00:14:48,206 --> 00:14:50,606 Speaker 3: am I even doing this right? Am I timing it right? 292 00:14:50,646 --> 00:14:52,686 Speaker 3: What if it's quicker than I'm timing it? What if 293 00:14:52,726 --> 00:14:55,646 Speaker 3: it's worse? What if it's coming really soon? I think, 294 00:14:55,766 --> 00:14:57,806 Speaker 3: looking back now, that was my body saying you need 295 00:14:57,846 --> 00:14:59,566 Speaker 3: to get to the hospital, because I didn't realize how 296 00:14:59,606 --> 00:15:01,966 Speaker 3: quickly it was about to happen after that. So yeah, 297 00:15:02,006 --> 00:15:03,606 Speaker 3: I said to my usband, let's just get to the hospital. 298 00:15:03,606 --> 00:15:05,286 Speaker 3: They're not going to kick me out even the moment 299 00:15:05,486 --> 00:15:07,606 Speaker 3: I said stay home. And so yeah, we got into 300 00:15:07,646 --> 00:15:11,446 Speaker 3: the car. In the car is when things really like 301 00:15:11,726 --> 00:15:15,406 Speaker 3: ramped up. I was screaming out of that car. We 302 00:15:15,446 --> 00:15:17,726 Speaker 3: had timed it. It was that twelve minute drive or 303 00:15:17,766 --> 00:15:21,006 Speaker 3: whatever it was, but it felt like a year in 304 00:15:21,046 --> 00:15:22,606 Speaker 3: that car. I felt like I was on some sort 305 00:15:22,646 --> 00:15:25,526 Speaker 3: of a road trip. I just kept saying, like, just 306 00:15:25,646 --> 00:15:28,926 Speaker 3: get to this hospital. Looking back now a bad idea, 307 00:15:29,006 --> 00:15:31,966 Speaker 3: but don't worry about the red light. Speed through there, 308 00:15:32,206 --> 00:15:36,205 Speaker 3: get me to this hospital. I was not just in 309 00:15:36,246 --> 00:15:40,366 Speaker 3: like immense pain, like those contractions were at a level 310 00:15:40,406 --> 00:15:43,166 Speaker 3: that I hadn't felt before, because I was obviously further 311 00:15:43,246 --> 00:15:46,446 Speaker 3: along than I had gotten with Noah without an epidural. 312 00:15:47,326 --> 00:15:50,366 Speaker 3: But I was also getting really scared because I was 313 00:15:50,366 --> 00:15:52,366 Speaker 3: in the car, and you know, you hear those stories 314 00:15:52,366 --> 00:15:54,846 Speaker 3: about people having babies in cars, so you're like, I 315 00:15:54,846 --> 00:15:56,406 Speaker 3: don't want to be the person having a baby on 316 00:15:56,446 --> 00:15:58,286 Speaker 3: the side of the road. Get me to this hospital. 317 00:15:58,406 --> 00:16:00,566 Speaker 3: So I was really scared, and I was in a 318 00:16:00,606 --> 00:16:01,046 Speaker 3: lot of pain. 319 00:16:01,406 --> 00:16:03,606 Speaker 1: So you get to the hospital, obviously the baby didn't 320 00:16:03,646 --> 00:16:06,886 Speaker 1: come in the car, They check you in, you're in 321 00:16:06,926 --> 00:16:11,166 Speaker 1: the room, and you immediately like, get me that epidural. 322 00:16:11,526 --> 00:16:11,726 Speaker 4: Yeah. 323 00:16:11,766 --> 00:16:13,486 Speaker 3: So when I got to the hospital, and this would 324 00:16:13,486 --> 00:16:16,806 Speaker 3: have been maybe I'm talking like an hour so between 325 00:16:16,846 --> 00:16:20,886 Speaker 3: we parked the car, my husband slowly gets me up 326 00:16:21,086 --> 00:16:23,446 Speaker 3: to the lift up to the hallway. As I'm in 327 00:16:23,486 --> 00:16:27,446 Speaker 3: the hallway, I'm stopping every three steps for a contraction, 328 00:16:27,566 --> 00:16:29,606 Speaker 3: like I'm in a lot of pain. I'm thinking, oh 329 00:16:29,606 --> 00:16:31,246 Speaker 3: my gosh, this is really ramping up, this is really 330 00:16:31,326 --> 00:16:35,406 Speaker 3: ramping up. I can't even walk. But again, nobody around 331 00:16:35,406 --> 00:16:38,006 Speaker 3: me was very alarmed, Like the midwives even were like, oh, yeah, 332 00:16:38,006 --> 00:16:40,566 Speaker 3: you're fine, Like they were timing it and it didn't 333 00:16:40,606 --> 00:16:43,766 Speaker 3: seem like it was too frequent in their minds. And 334 00:16:43,806 --> 00:16:46,206 Speaker 3: you know, I had just gotten there. They had already 335 00:16:46,246 --> 00:16:48,286 Speaker 3: been informed by my wind wife that I was coming, 336 00:16:48,326 --> 00:16:50,686 Speaker 3: so they knew the background of it had only been 337 00:16:50,726 --> 00:16:53,006 Speaker 3: three or four hours. But as I was walking through 338 00:16:53,046 --> 00:16:55,446 Speaker 3: the hallway and the midwife met me in the hallway, 339 00:16:55,566 --> 00:16:59,206 Speaker 3: I remember yelling at her again feel so bad about 340 00:16:59,246 --> 00:17:01,686 Speaker 3: this later and you know, she was very sweet about it, 341 00:17:01,686 --> 00:17:03,726 Speaker 3: and they probably get this all the time, but you know, saying, 342 00:17:03,846 --> 00:17:06,406 Speaker 3: I really want my epidural, I really want my API dural, 343 00:17:06,486 --> 00:17:08,526 Speaker 3: and that's all I said. I didn't even introduce myself 344 00:17:08,606 --> 00:17:12,486 Speaker 3: because this midwife wasn't my midwife. My midwife wasn't another berth. 345 00:17:12,526 --> 00:17:15,046 Speaker 3: That night, I didn't even introduce myself, which I felt 346 00:17:15,086 --> 00:17:17,326 Speaker 3: really bad, but I just said, all I want is 347 00:17:17,406 --> 00:17:19,966 Speaker 3: my EPI durol. I'm really scared right now. I can't 348 00:17:19,966 --> 00:17:24,046 Speaker 3: handle this pain. Can you order it? Very nice midwives. 349 00:17:24,086 --> 00:17:25,926 Speaker 3: I don't know how they do their job and get 350 00:17:25,966 --> 00:17:27,646 Speaker 3: through all of that, but you know, she said, it's fine, 351 00:17:27,646 --> 00:17:30,566 Speaker 3: I'm ordering it right now. So I sat down, got 352 00:17:30,566 --> 00:17:33,766 Speaker 3: in my gown, and within maybe ten minutes, they were 353 00:17:33,766 --> 00:17:36,846 Speaker 3: in there, ready to go, ultrasound machine and everything. They 354 00:17:36,886 --> 00:17:39,446 Speaker 3: were super prepared for my curved spine. 355 00:17:40,526 --> 00:17:43,566 Speaker 1: But they go to do your epidural with your curve spine, 356 00:17:43,566 --> 00:17:47,326 Speaker 1: they're all prepared. You're in agony. But there was a 357 00:17:47,406 --> 00:17:49,446 Speaker 1: little bit of a problem. 358 00:17:49,846 --> 00:17:52,686 Speaker 3: It was really weird because when I sat for my epidural, 359 00:17:53,406 --> 00:17:55,686 Speaker 3: and again this is like flashbacks to your first birth right, 360 00:17:56,486 --> 00:17:58,686 Speaker 3: I kind of knew how I had to sit. You know, 361 00:17:58,726 --> 00:18:00,286 Speaker 3: people don't tell you that when you're sitting for an 362 00:18:00,286 --> 00:18:02,526 Speaker 3: epi drool. You have to do super steel. You have 363 00:18:02,526 --> 00:18:03,806 Speaker 3: to sit on the side of the bed. You have 364 00:18:03,846 --> 00:18:06,286 Speaker 3: to like have a really straight back. There's a lot 365 00:18:06,286 --> 00:18:07,926 Speaker 3: of rules. There's a lot of rules for it to 366 00:18:07,926 --> 00:18:11,086 Speaker 3: go right, and you have to tell them if a 367 00:18:11,126 --> 00:18:13,606 Speaker 3: contraction's coming so that they don't do it in that moment. 368 00:18:13,606 --> 00:18:17,486 Speaker 3: There's a lot of formalities about the epidurol and something 369 00:18:17,486 --> 00:18:20,446 Speaker 3: about me sitting was really weird, Like I was very 370 00:18:20,526 --> 00:18:24,086 Speaker 3: uncomfortable on my bottom area, like you know, where it 371 00:18:24,126 --> 00:18:27,326 Speaker 3: all happens. But I didn't really think anything of it 372 00:18:27,366 --> 00:18:29,526 Speaker 3: because I just thought, let's just get this epidool in, 373 00:18:29,606 --> 00:18:32,726 Speaker 3: you know, that was like my aim. They just said, yep, 374 00:18:32,846 --> 00:18:34,686 Speaker 3: let's do the EPI dool you'll be fine, So I 375 00:18:34,726 --> 00:18:38,046 Speaker 3: didn't really say anything. Little did I know that was 376 00:18:38,366 --> 00:18:42,966 Speaker 3: Leo dropped kind of waiting in that area, not out, 377 00:18:43,406 --> 00:18:45,086 Speaker 3: but very nearly out. 378 00:18:45,126 --> 00:18:47,166 Speaker 1: So they didn't even have a chance to sort of 379 00:18:47,286 --> 00:18:47,686 Speaker 1: check you. 380 00:18:48,446 --> 00:18:50,966 Speaker 3: Well, they checked me when I just got to the hospital, 381 00:18:51,046 --> 00:18:54,086 Speaker 3: and I hadn't been that dilated, so I think at 382 00:18:54,086 --> 00:18:56,806 Speaker 3: that point I was about five centimeters. 383 00:18:56,926 --> 00:18:59,086 Speaker 1: That's still pretty significant, yes. 384 00:18:59,126 --> 00:19:02,326 Speaker 3: And I remember the rule was with no at least 385 00:19:02,366 --> 00:19:04,526 Speaker 3: what I was told was that they try and get 386 00:19:04,606 --> 00:19:06,886 Speaker 3: you to more than four centimeters for you to get 387 00:19:06,886 --> 00:19:08,806 Speaker 3: an epi driol because then it can slow things down, 388 00:19:08,846 --> 00:19:11,326 Speaker 3: so they want you above four. So I was like, great, 389 00:19:11,486 --> 00:19:15,286 Speaker 3: five epidural were back on that, so I ticked that box. 390 00:19:15,646 --> 00:19:21,246 Speaker 3: So within that thirty to forty minutes, Leo had just gone, well, 391 00:19:21,326 --> 00:19:24,686 Speaker 3: actually no, I want ten centimeters, and yeah, he was there. 392 00:19:24,846 --> 00:19:27,766 Speaker 3: He was basically ready. I wasn't because I hadn't, you know, 393 00:19:27,846 --> 00:19:31,366 Speaker 3: even laid down up next, I looked at my husband 394 00:19:31,366 --> 00:19:32,846 Speaker 3: and he looked at me, and he goes, you got 395 00:19:32,846 --> 00:19:35,726 Speaker 3: to push, push, and all fifteen doctors like, you got 396 00:19:35,726 --> 00:19:38,566 Speaker 3: to push. He's there now. So I just did this 397 00:19:38,926 --> 00:19:43,566 Speaker 3: really big push what I thought was a push, and 398 00:19:43,726 --> 00:19:46,846 Speaker 3: she goes, yep, one more and before I even got 399 00:19:46,886 --> 00:19:53,886 Speaker 3: to the second push, bang, he was out. 400 00:19:54,446 --> 00:19:58,806 Speaker 1: Okay, So when did you realize that Leo was about 401 00:19:58,806 --> 00:19:59,366 Speaker 1: to come out? 402 00:19:59,646 --> 00:20:02,086 Speaker 3: So after the epidural, that was the best part of 403 00:20:02,126 --> 00:20:04,366 Speaker 3: my first berth, Like, let's be honest, you know that 404 00:20:04,526 --> 00:20:08,806 Speaker 3: relief that you feel instantly. And something that was really 405 00:20:08,886 --> 00:20:11,206 Speaker 3: surprising with Noah. I don't know if you had this, 406 00:20:11,486 --> 00:20:14,606 Speaker 3: was that I was told to have a nap after 407 00:20:14,646 --> 00:20:19,006 Speaker 3: my epidural because at the time I was about that 408 00:20:19,166 --> 00:20:21,606 Speaker 3: just over four centimeters, and you know, they had assumed, well, 409 00:20:21,646 --> 00:20:23,206 Speaker 3: you still got a little while to go. Why don't 410 00:20:23,206 --> 00:20:24,846 Speaker 3: you have a bit of a rest now that you're 411 00:20:24,886 --> 00:20:27,126 Speaker 3: out of that pain. So I had laid down with 412 00:20:27,206 --> 00:20:29,326 Speaker 3: Noah and had a nap. That was what I was 413 00:20:29,366 --> 00:20:32,486 Speaker 3: ready to do with Leo. So I get this epidurol, 414 00:20:32,806 --> 00:20:36,926 Speaker 3: the doctors leave, I lay down proper snuggle myself into 415 00:20:36,966 --> 00:20:40,086 Speaker 3: the bed. Midwife's like, great, I'll be here if you 416 00:20:40,166 --> 00:20:43,806 Speaker 3: need anything and walks away. Within a couple of minutes, 417 00:20:44,526 --> 00:20:47,326 Speaker 3: the machine next to me starts buzzing and it was 418 00:20:47,366 --> 00:20:51,326 Speaker 3: his heart rate. So very quickly it went from this 419 00:20:51,526 --> 00:20:56,046 Speaker 3: dim lit room, everyone's ready to nap and just you know, 420 00:20:56,566 --> 00:20:59,966 Speaker 3: wait for a few hours and see what happens to 421 00:21:00,646 --> 00:21:04,166 Speaker 3: It was like the movies, like fifteen doctors rushing into 422 00:21:04,206 --> 00:21:09,286 Speaker 3: the room. I was instantly in like panic, you know. 423 00:21:09,726 --> 00:21:13,446 Speaker 3: The midwife said, he's heart rates dropping. My husband pops 424 00:21:13,526 --> 00:21:16,886 Speaker 3: up from his allocated seat, and that was really scary 425 00:21:17,166 --> 00:21:20,606 Speaker 3: because it was such a contrast. Everybody was really chill, 426 00:21:20,726 --> 00:21:23,846 Speaker 3: everybody was ready to wait, and all of a sudden 427 00:21:24,006 --> 00:21:27,726 Speaker 3: something was going on. So that was the first moment 428 00:21:28,926 --> 00:21:31,006 Speaker 3: that we realized something was not right. 429 00:21:31,446 --> 00:21:33,846 Speaker 1: All of a sudden, everyone comes in. What's the first 430 00:21:33,886 --> 00:21:36,926 Speaker 1: thing that the nurses and doctors do when they see 431 00:21:36,966 --> 00:21:38,286 Speaker 1: that decreased heart rate? 432 00:21:38,566 --> 00:21:41,326 Speaker 3: So the doctor at the time said, I'm gonna need 433 00:21:41,366 --> 00:21:43,726 Speaker 3: to put my hand in and check what's going on 434 00:21:43,766 --> 00:21:47,166 Speaker 3: and just check to see where he is. So she 435 00:21:47,246 --> 00:21:52,366 Speaker 3: puts her hand in and instantly goes, oh, you've got 436 00:21:52,406 --> 00:21:58,205 Speaker 3: to push Nicolina, You've got to push now, like yelling 437 00:21:58,246 --> 00:22:01,526 Speaker 3: at me, like she was like my mom, she goes, 438 00:22:01,566 --> 00:22:05,486 Speaker 3: you have to push right now. I look at my husban. 439 00:22:05,686 --> 00:22:07,806 Speaker 3: He looked at me and he goes, you gotta push, push, 440 00:22:07,966 --> 00:22:10,606 Speaker 3: and all fifteen doctors like, you got to push. He's 441 00:22:10,686 --> 00:22:15,286 Speaker 3: there now. So I just did this really big push 442 00:22:15,766 --> 00:22:18,806 Speaker 3: what I thought was a push, and she goes, yep, 443 00:22:19,006 --> 00:22:22,926 Speaker 3: one more and before I even got to the second push, bang, 444 00:22:23,646 --> 00:22:28,286 Speaker 3: he was out. So within I think it was twenty minutes, 445 00:22:29,006 --> 00:22:32,686 Speaker 3: I was like in my cuddled up bed, ready to 446 00:22:32,726 --> 00:22:36,126 Speaker 3: take him out with my beautiful epidural in too. Leah 447 00:22:36,166 --> 00:22:38,446 Speaker 3: was there. He was in my arms, he was crying. 448 00:22:38,726 --> 00:22:40,606 Speaker 3: There's fifteen doctors in the room, so. 449 00:22:40,606 --> 00:22:43,046 Speaker 1: They obviously looked and his head was there. He was 450 00:22:43,086 --> 00:22:45,806 Speaker 1: crowning and it was just like a matter of a click. 451 00:22:45,966 --> 00:22:47,526 Speaker 1: And you must be a great pusher. 452 00:22:48,326 --> 00:22:50,086 Speaker 3: Yeah, I would like to be. It was a really 453 00:22:50,126 --> 00:22:53,606 Speaker 3: good pusher, I think. And what we had resolved after 454 00:22:53,646 --> 00:22:56,806 Speaker 3: talking to the midwife is I think that I was 455 00:22:56,846 --> 00:22:59,686 Speaker 3: sitting on his head in a sense when I was 456 00:22:59,686 --> 00:23:02,646 Speaker 3: sitting for my epidural. So I think in the moments 457 00:23:02,686 --> 00:23:04,646 Speaker 3: between I got checked and sat down and got in 458 00:23:04,686 --> 00:23:07,646 Speaker 3: my gown and sat down for the epidural. He had 459 00:23:07,886 --> 00:23:11,246 Speaker 3: proper dropped and was ready to go. That's why I 460 00:23:11,246 --> 00:23:13,526 Speaker 3: was uncomfortable at the time. But you know, like I'm 461 00:23:13,606 --> 00:23:16,326 Speaker 3: uncomfortable because I'm in labor. I don't know that it's 462 00:23:16,406 --> 00:23:19,646 Speaker 3: him there, and so when I just laid back down, 463 00:23:19,686 --> 00:23:21,646 Speaker 3: he was like, no, no, no, get back up. You need 464 00:23:21,686 --> 00:23:24,205 Speaker 3: to get me out of here. This is a story 465 00:23:24,206 --> 00:23:26,566 Speaker 3: that I don't try and tell too often because it 466 00:23:26,646 --> 00:23:29,446 Speaker 3: is I'm kind of like the woman people hate because 467 00:23:29,486 --> 00:23:32,126 Speaker 3: it was one push and he was out, and I 468 00:23:32,126 --> 00:23:34,046 Speaker 3: don't want to, you know, complain about it, because that, 469 00:23:34,086 --> 00:23:36,166 Speaker 3: in a sense, you know, was a great relief because 470 00:23:36,166 --> 00:23:39,086 Speaker 3: I was so anxious and terrified of the birth itself. 471 00:23:39,126 --> 00:23:40,846 Speaker 3: It was, you know, kind of funny that it was 472 00:23:40,886 --> 00:23:43,966 Speaker 3: over so quickly, But that in itself was really scary 473 00:23:44,446 --> 00:23:47,166 Speaker 3: because in the moment, when I remember all the doctors 474 00:23:47,206 --> 00:23:49,166 Speaker 3: said you need to push now, it was like I 475 00:23:49,286 --> 00:23:51,886 Speaker 3: was the only one that could fix that situation. So 476 00:23:51,926 --> 00:23:54,326 Speaker 3: it was like all writing on me in that moment, 477 00:23:54,406 --> 00:23:56,926 Speaker 3: and everybody was staring at me to like perform, and 478 00:23:56,966 --> 00:23:58,326 Speaker 3: that was very scary. 479 00:23:58,686 --> 00:24:03,886 Speaker 1: I absolutely completely understand. It is terrifying in any scenario, 480 00:24:04,926 --> 00:24:07,206 Speaker 1: he comes out in one push. You're obviously in a 481 00:24:07,206 --> 00:24:11,046 Speaker 1: lot of shock at this point. How did you feel 482 00:24:11,086 --> 00:24:14,166 Speaker 1: when they put him? I'm assuming they just put him 483 00:24:14,206 --> 00:24:15,086 Speaker 1: straight onto your chest. 484 00:24:15,646 --> 00:24:17,526 Speaker 3: Yeah, so they did, but they did have to check 485 00:24:17,566 --> 00:24:20,646 Speaker 3: his heart rate because liarly he had been in distress 486 00:24:20,766 --> 00:24:22,926 Speaker 3: because he was ready to go and he wasn't being 487 00:24:22,926 --> 00:24:26,486 Speaker 3: pushed out. But within a couple of minutes kind of 488 00:24:26,486 --> 00:24:28,926 Speaker 3: all the doctors had dissipated out of the room because 489 00:24:28,966 --> 00:24:31,246 Speaker 3: I guess their job was done right. They had come in, 490 00:24:31,286 --> 00:24:32,966 Speaker 3: they checked the baby's heart rate was fine, and the 491 00:24:32,966 --> 00:24:35,286 Speaker 3: baby was here, So it was again we just went 492 00:24:35,286 --> 00:24:38,246 Speaker 3: back to that lull really quickly, and that's when we 493 00:24:38,726 --> 00:24:40,966 Speaker 3: kind of had to come to terms with what had 494 00:24:41,046 --> 00:24:44,326 Speaker 3: just happened. You know, it's all the things that I remembered. 495 00:24:44,366 --> 00:24:46,286 Speaker 3: You had to give birth, to the placenta and do 496 00:24:46,446 --> 00:24:50,566 Speaker 3: those little bits and pieces. Luckily, because he had basically 497 00:24:50,606 --> 00:24:54,086 Speaker 3: slipped out, I had no tearing, which was really nice 498 00:24:54,126 --> 00:24:56,966 Speaker 3: because I had tearing with Noah. And then, yeah, it 499 00:24:57,046 --> 00:24:59,686 Speaker 3: was about coming to terms with what had happened. And 500 00:24:59,766 --> 00:25:01,766 Speaker 3: for a little while there as well, I felt like 501 00:25:01,846 --> 00:25:04,606 Speaker 3: quite guilty because I thought, well, oh gosh, you know, 502 00:25:04,766 --> 00:25:07,526 Speaker 3: I just sat his head and I just I didn't 503 00:25:07,526 --> 00:25:09,926 Speaker 3: even know he was there. So there was a lot 504 00:25:09,926 --> 00:25:12,126 Speaker 3: of that. But the midwife was great. She said, you know, 505 00:25:12,326 --> 00:25:14,446 Speaker 3: it's not up to you to even know that. You 506 00:25:14,486 --> 00:25:18,046 Speaker 3: couldn't have ever figured that out. Let's just be thankful 507 00:25:18,086 --> 00:25:19,926 Speaker 3: that it was all fine. And he came out and 508 00:25:19,966 --> 00:25:22,566 Speaker 3: he clearly he was just very eager to come at you. 509 00:25:23,086 --> 00:25:26,846 Speaker 1: So Nicholas is obviously like standing there about to take 510 00:25:26,886 --> 00:25:30,606 Speaker 1: a nap, and then there's a baby there. What was 511 00:25:30,646 --> 00:25:31,246 Speaker 1: his reaction. 512 00:25:31,646 --> 00:25:34,086 Speaker 3: It's funny because I think men's reactions and feelings in 513 00:25:34,126 --> 00:25:36,766 Speaker 3: that labor room have sometimes dismissed. You know, you're really 514 00:25:36,806 --> 00:25:38,926 Speaker 3: angry at them at the time they're not very helpful, 515 00:25:39,046 --> 00:25:40,526 Speaker 3: or even if they're trying to be helpful, they're not 516 00:25:40,526 --> 00:25:43,286 Speaker 3: being helpful. So he at the time was very shocked 517 00:25:43,326 --> 00:25:46,606 Speaker 3: as well, and he felt that helplessness when all the 518 00:25:46,646 --> 00:25:49,926 Speaker 3: doctors rushed in, So he was like, what's happened, what's happened? 519 00:25:50,006 --> 00:25:53,166 Speaker 3: You know, that confusion, And then when things kind of 520 00:25:53,206 --> 00:25:55,606 Speaker 3: come down and we had realized, okay, he's here, Wow, 521 00:25:55,886 --> 00:25:58,326 Speaker 3: nobody's having a nap. This is our second child. We know, 522 00:25:58,646 --> 00:26:00,725 Speaker 3: you know that there's no naps from now to the 523 00:26:00,726 --> 00:26:03,806 Speaker 3: next five years. So that was a bit slightly annoying 524 00:26:03,846 --> 00:26:05,246 Speaker 3: for the both of us who thought we were going 525 00:26:05,286 --> 00:26:07,126 Speaker 3: to get rest not just from our todd love, but 526 00:26:07,246 --> 00:26:09,606 Speaker 3: from you know, giving birth for a little while. But 527 00:26:09,686 --> 00:26:11,526 Speaker 3: at one point I think we just started kind of 528 00:26:11,606 --> 00:26:15,646 Speaker 3: laughing about it because it was so hilarious that it 529 00:26:15,766 --> 00:26:19,246 Speaker 3: went down the way it did. And the best part 530 00:26:19,286 --> 00:26:21,526 Speaker 3: of the moment that it happened was one of the 531 00:26:21,566 --> 00:26:25,686 Speaker 3: doctors yelling out, Wow, that was the quickest berth I 532 00:26:25,726 --> 00:26:29,006 Speaker 3: have ever seen, and I have been in this industry 533 00:26:29,046 --> 00:26:32,966 Speaker 3: for twenty years. I felt like there was quite an achievement. Actually, 534 00:26:33,486 --> 00:26:35,846 Speaker 3: everybody was very stunned, so. 535 00:26:35,886 --> 00:26:38,886 Speaker 1: Even the doctors were like, this was insanely fast. 536 00:26:39,366 --> 00:26:42,326 Speaker 3: Yeah. The doctors were, I think even more surprised because 537 00:26:42,326 --> 00:26:45,446 Speaker 3: of course they had checked me forty five minutes before that, 538 00:26:46,206 --> 00:26:49,886 Speaker 3: so there had been this rapid progression of my dilation 539 00:26:50,566 --> 00:26:53,446 Speaker 3: and LEO coming down into the canal, So they were 540 00:26:53,446 --> 00:26:54,846 Speaker 3: stunned by the entire thing. 541 00:26:55,126 --> 00:26:57,926 Speaker 1: And how was your recovery Did you feel okay after it? 542 00:26:57,966 --> 00:26:59,966 Speaker 1: Were you sort of up and moving around? 543 00:27:00,286 --> 00:27:04,646 Speaker 3: Yeah, recovery was pretty fine. I was very lucky with recovery. 544 00:27:04,806 --> 00:27:07,606 Speaker 3: Especially because because I guess he had slipped out so 545 00:27:07,686 --> 00:27:10,206 Speaker 3: quickly that I didn't need those stitches. And I know 546 00:27:10,286 --> 00:27:13,206 Speaker 3: during my first pregnancy, man, those stitches were just the 547 00:27:13,286 --> 00:27:17,046 Speaker 3: weeks after it is just going to pee is a struggle. 548 00:27:17,086 --> 00:27:19,926 Speaker 3: Everything's a struggle. Why being is a struggle? Gosh, it's 549 00:27:19,966 --> 00:27:22,206 Speaker 3: just a struggle. So I was very thankful that I 550 00:27:22,246 --> 00:27:25,606 Speaker 3: didn't have to deal with those stitches. But so I 551 00:27:25,646 --> 00:27:28,686 Speaker 3: had only done my strep beat a week before and 552 00:27:28,886 --> 00:27:32,166 Speaker 3: my results hadn't come back in yet. So within a 553 00:27:32,206 --> 00:27:34,686 Speaker 3: couple of hours of giving birth, and we've all settled 554 00:27:34,686 --> 00:27:37,086 Speaker 3: in and we've realized he's here, and everybody's calmed down 555 00:27:37,126 --> 00:27:39,006 Speaker 3: and we're all laughing about it and we're sending photos 556 00:27:39,046 --> 00:27:41,566 Speaker 3: to our family, the midwife actually came and said my 557 00:27:41,566 --> 00:27:43,726 Speaker 3: test results had come back and I was actually positive, 558 00:27:44,286 --> 00:27:47,166 Speaker 3: which was also a shock. I was negative the first 559 00:27:47,166 --> 00:27:48,926 Speaker 3: time and I didn't actually know what that meant. So 560 00:27:48,966 --> 00:27:50,806 Speaker 3: we did have to stay in the hospital a little 561 00:27:50,806 --> 00:27:53,766 Speaker 3: bit longer than we intended, because when you are positive, 562 00:27:54,206 --> 00:27:57,686 Speaker 3: you need to have a round of antibiotics and your 563 00:27:57,726 --> 00:28:00,766 Speaker 3: child also needs to be monitored for longer. Luckily, everything 564 00:28:00,806 --> 00:28:02,966 Speaker 3: was completely fine, and you don't want to be honest, 565 00:28:03,006 --> 00:28:05,446 Speaker 3: I wasn't complaining for an extra night in the whole 566 00:28:05,526 --> 00:28:07,886 Speaker 3: spit all at home with the newborn baby that was 567 00:28:07,966 --> 00:28:10,566 Speaker 3: sleeping a lot in those first couple of days when 568 00:28:10,606 --> 00:28:13,726 Speaker 3: my toddler was back at home not sleeping, so we 569 00:28:13,806 --> 00:28:15,646 Speaker 3: stayed a little bit longer. So that kind of also 570 00:28:15,766 --> 00:28:19,446 Speaker 3: helped with just you know, quietening down, coming to the 571 00:28:19,526 --> 00:28:23,286 Speaker 3: realization he's here, the birth's done, everybody is fine. 572 00:28:23,766 --> 00:28:26,046 Speaker 1: You said to me in your email when you wrote 573 00:28:26,086 --> 00:28:28,606 Speaker 1: to us that what you really wanted people to know 574 00:28:28,846 --> 00:28:32,566 Speaker 1: is that that fear and anxiety is something that you 575 00:28:32,766 --> 00:28:35,965 Speaker 1: weren't quite anticipating. So can you tell us a bit 576 00:28:35,966 --> 00:28:36,286 Speaker 1: about that. 577 00:28:37,006 --> 00:28:41,526 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that everybody in the first birth is 578 00:28:41,686 --> 00:28:45,406 Speaker 3: very focused on planning. So you know, we do all 579 00:28:45,446 --> 00:28:48,206 Speaker 3: the classes. We do a birth in class, do the 580 00:28:48,246 --> 00:28:51,366 Speaker 3: breathing class, we do this and that, and there's a 581 00:28:51,406 --> 00:28:53,046 Speaker 3: lot of focus put on that, and you kind of 582 00:28:53,046 --> 00:28:54,806 Speaker 3: get to your birth and whatever birth you have is 583 00:28:54,846 --> 00:28:57,246 Speaker 3: a different experience and maybe you didn't even use your 584 00:28:57,286 --> 00:28:59,646 Speaker 3: birth plan, maybe you did use your birth plan. There's 585 00:28:59,686 --> 00:29:02,846 Speaker 3: just a lot of importance put on that and then 586 00:29:02,926 --> 00:29:05,126 Speaker 3: it kind of just fades away. But a lot of 587 00:29:05,166 --> 00:29:06,846 Speaker 3: people have a second child, a lot of people will 588 00:29:06,846 --> 00:29:10,246 Speaker 3: have a third child. So when I started to be 589 00:29:10,366 --> 00:29:12,846 Speaker 3: quite scared of birth, I didn't really tell anyone because 590 00:29:12,846 --> 00:29:16,086 Speaker 3: I thought it was quite embarrassing because I thought people 591 00:29:16,086 --> 00:29:17,806 Speaker 3: will think, why is she scared of birth? She's already 592 00:29:17,846 --> 00:29:19,966 Speaker 3: done it, you know, And a lot of people would 593 00:29:19,966 --> 00:29:21,726 Speaker 3: say that, oh, you've already done it before, so you 594 00:29:21,806 --> 00:29:24,446 Speaker 3: could be fine the second time around. But deep down 595 00:29:24,566 --> 00:29:27,766 Speaker 3: I was proper terrified, Like I was anxious about I've 596 00:29:28,006 --> 00:29:31,166 Speaker 3: had nightmares about it, about how it would go down, 597 00:29:31,166 --> 00:29:33,526 Speaker 3: where it would go down, how bad the pain would 598 00:29:33,526 --> 00:29:38,046 Speaker 3: be again, whether the every dura would work, whether you know, 599 00:29:38,406 --> 00:29:40,806 Speaker 3: I'd be paralyzed from the every dural because it was 600 00:29:40,846 --> 00:29:43,486 Speaker 3: so scary getting it and staying still. There's so many 601 00:29:43,566 --> 00:29:46,526 Speaker 3: elements that you now know about birth that you didn't before. 602 00:29:46,846 --> 00:29:49,206 Speaker 3: So in the first pregnancy, you're not stressing about those things. 603 00:29:49,286 --> 00:29:52,406 Speaker 3: All you're stressing about is put together a birth plan 604 00:29:53,126 --> 00:29:56,086 Speaker 3: and figure out your breathing and just go with the 605 00:29:56,126 --> 00:29:58,166 Speaker 3: flow and see how it goes, because you don't know 606 00:29:58,326 --> 00:30:01,246 Speaker 3: how it will go, but you know every element of 607 00:30:01,486 --> 00:30:05,446 Speaker 3: birth going into your second birth. So that was terrified 608 00:30:05,686 --> 00:30:09,526 Speaker 3: for me. So I was very relieved once it was finished, 609 00:30:10,326 --> 00:30:12,366 Speaker 3: and again, I think it was just ironic that it 610 00:30:12,486 --> 00:30:15,126 Speaker 3: was so quick after. I think it was kind of 611 00:30:15,206 --> 00:30:18,806 Speaker 3: a way perhaps even that Leo was like, I'll make 612 00:30:18,886 --> 00:30:20,966 Speaker 3: this super easy for your mum, because I know you're 613 00:30:21,006 --> 00:30:21,806 Speaker 3: really really scared. 614 00:30:22,166 --> 00:30:24,526 Speaker 1: I completely relate to you, and I think that I've 615 00:30:24,566 --> 00:30:29,846 Speaker 1: heard some incredible stories about women who have this real calm, peace, 616 00:30:30,246 --> 00:30:36,486 Speaker 1: like very relaxed and positive mindsets, but for us anxious people, 617 00:30:37,366 --> 00:30:40,766 Speaker 1: it can be really, really scary, and I think it's 618 00:30:40,806 --> 00:30:43,286 Speaker 1: really important to talk about it and to kind of 619 00:30:43,366 --> 00:30:47,126 Speaker 1: think about the ways that we can combat that, whether 620 00:30:47,246 --> 00:30:49,726 Speaker 1: it's in the lead up and obviously you saw a therapist, 621 00:30:49,926 --> 00:30:52,566 Speaker 1: obviously you had people to talk to, but I do 622 00:30:52,726 --> 00:30:55,566 Speaker 1: think it's really important to note that just because you've 623 00:30:55,606 --> 00:30:57,926 Speaker 1: done it once doesn't mean that you're not allowed to 624 00:30:58,006 --> 00:30:59,886 Speaker 1: be afraid again. 625 00:31:00,406 --> 00:31:02,086 Speaker 3: Yeah, And the thing that people tell you is every 626 00:31:02,126 --> 00:31:06,206 Speaker 3: birth is so different, right, So part of that fear 627 00:31:06,246 --> 00:31:08,806 Speaker 3: as well was that, well, Noah's birth was you know, 628 00:31:08,926 --> 00:31:11,246 Speaker 3: pretty cruisy, and I felt really lucky and I thought 629 00:31:11,606 --> 00:31:14,126 Speaker 3: it went really well. It was positive. I you know, 630 00:31:14,406 --> 00:31:16,686 Speaker 3: ended up getting what I wanted in the end in 631 00:31:16,806 --> 00:31:19,246 Speaker 3: terms of pain medication, and I thought maybe I'm not 632 00:31:19,286 --> 00:31:21,166 Speaker 3: going to get that again, because maybe you only get 633 00:31:21,206 --> 00:31:24,046 Speaker 3: one good berth. So I thought I was out of tokens, 634 00:31:24,606 --> 00:31:27,006 Speaker 3: and I thought, well, this one's not going to go great, 635 00:31:27,646 --> 00:31:31,126 Speaker 3: And it was definitely different. I thought, well, maybe there 636 00:31:31,126 --> 00:31:33,166 Speaker 3: will be complications this time around. I didn't have a 637 00:31:33,206 --> 00:31:36,446 Speaker 3: complication the first time around. I wasn't prepared for how 638 00:31:36,646 --> 00:31:39,006 Speaker 3: much my mind would run in terms of what could 639 00:31:39,086 --> 00:31:42,246 Speaker 3: have gone wrong, how you know, bad. It was going 640 00:31:42,326 --> 00:31:45,046 Speaker 3: to hurt this time around, if things would work the same, 641 00:31:45,126 --> 00:31:49,726 Speaker 3: if things would go differently, that was quite terrifying. But 642 00:31:49,846 --> 00:31:52,086 Speaker 3: I think the main thing I tried to focus on 643 00:31:52,486 --> 00:31:55,526 Speaker 3: was getting over the embarrassment first of all very quickly, 644 00:31:55,646 --> 00:31:57,326 Speaker 3: and I just started talking about it. I told my 645 00:31:57,406 --> 00:31:59,886 Speaker 3: husband about it, I told my sister about it, and 646 00:31:59,966 --> 00:32:01,686 Speaker 3: you know, I told other mums about it, and they 647 00:32:01,886 --> 00:32:04,286 Speaker 3: said the same thing. So I was like, why isn't 648 00:32:04,366 --> 00:32:06,406 Speaker 3: anybody talking about this? 649 00:32:07,086 --> 00:32:09,246 Speaker 1: I relate to you very very much. 650 00:32:10,406 --> 00:32:13,926 Speaker 3: You know, we keep everything inside all the time. We 651 00:32:14,046 --> 00:32:17,366 Speaker 3: just need to talk about how shitty aspects of this is. 652 00:32:18,006 --> 00:32:20,446 Speaker 3: So they did and that was very helpful. So, you know, 653 00:32:20,526 --> 00:32:22,126 Speaker 3: once I started to talk about it, once I started 654 00:32:22,166 --> 00:32:23,806 Speaker 3: to talk to my therapist about it, I realized that 655 00:32:23,846 --> 00:32:27,326 Speaker 3: it was actually pretty normal and common. That was very helpful. 656 00:32:27,566 --> 00:32:30,246 Speaker 3: You never want to feel like you're the only one 657 00:32:30,726 --> 00:32:33,286 Speaker 3: with that fear and that anxiety, and you know, I'm 658 00:32:33,326 --> 00:32:35,926 Speaker 3: being ridiculous and nobody else would think this way. As 659 00:32:35,966 --> 00:32:38,806 Speaker 3: soon as other people are in your boat, you know, 660 00:32:38,846 --> 00:32:40,966 Speaker 3: you're not wishing that upon people. But you're like, great, 661 00:32:41,366 --> 00:32:41,966 Speaker 3: we're a team. 662 00:32:42,686 --> 00:32:45,206 Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Nicholina, if you're telling us your story, 663 00:32:45,446 --> 00:32:47,166 Speaker 1: really appreciate it, and thank you so much for your 664 00:32:47,246 --> 00:32:50,766 Speaker 1: candor and you know, just being really honest about it. 665 00:32:51,126 --> 00:32:53,086 Speaker 3: Yeah, of course, thank you so much for giving me 666 00:32:53,086 --> 00:32:54,526 Speaker 3: the opportunity to tell the story. 667 00:33:01,406 --> 00:33:04,446 Speaker 1: I relate to Nicolina in a lot of ways, having 668 00:33:04,486 --> 00:33:07,846 Speaker 1: struggled with anxiety through both my pregnancies. I was curious 669 00:33:07,886 --> 00:33:13,006 Speaker 1: about the medical implications, so we've enlisted obstetrician and gynecologist 670 00:33:13,126 --> 00:33:16,806 Speaker 1: doctor Bromwin Devine to give us some of the facts. So, 671 00:33:17,206 --> 00:33:20,806 Speaker 1: if you're in any sort of medication pre pregnancy, is 672 00:33:20,846 --> 00:33:23,686 Speaker 1: it safe to continue when you get those two lines. 673 00:33:24,286 --> 00:33:27,006 Speaker 4: This is a great question because lots and lots of 674 00:33:27,086 --> 00:33:31,046 Speaker 4: people are on medication now for anxiety and depression. In 675 00:33:31,166 --> 00:33:33,686 Speaker 4: the past, some of the medication that was used was 676 00:33:33,806 --> 00:33:37,886 Speaker 4: not usually recommended in pregnancy, but the class of drugs 677 00:33:37,926 --> 00:33:41,566 Speaker 4: that we use now to treat anxiety and depression are 678 00:33:41,766 --> 00:33:47,846 Speaker 4: generally regarded as safe in pregnancy. There are some effects 679 00:33:48,086 --> 00:33:51,006 Speaker 4: that they can have. They don't cause birth defects or 680 00:33:51,046 --> 00:33:54,406 Speaker 4: anything like that, but they can be associated with it 681 00:33:54,566 --> 00:33:58,206 Speaker 4: slightly increased risk of leading when you've had a baby, 682 00:33:58,366 --> 00:34:01,926 Speaker 4: so postpartum hemorrhage. And they can also be associated with 683 00:34:02,006 --> 00:34:05,766 Speaker 4: a slightly increased risk of respiratory distress in the new born, 684 00:34:05,806 --> 00:34:08,526 Speaker 4: which means that the baby has a fast breathing rate 685 00:34:08,646 --> 00:34:10,366 Speaker 4: and sometimes needs to be on a little bit of 686 00:34:10,406 --> 00:34:13,606 Speaker 4: oxygen in the nursery for a few hours after birth. 687 00:34:14,125 --> 00:34:17,006 Speaker 4: But that's not consistent across all people who are taking 688 00:34:17,085 --> 00:34:20,685 Speaker 4: those medications. The thing that we say, though, we know 689 00:34:21,085 --> 00:34:26,085 Speaker 4: really clearly that people's mental health should be as good 690 00:34:26,125 --> 00:34:29,446 Speaker 4: as it can be in the antiinatal period, because if 691 00:34:29,486 --> 00:34:33,605 Speaker 4: it isn't, then that's a real marker for postnatal depression. 692 00:34:33,806 --> 00:34:37,685 Speaker 4: And postnatal depression has so many and so does antiinatal 693 00:34:37,685 --> 00:34:40,806 Speaker 4: depression and anxiety. But postnatal depression and anxiety has so 694 00:34:41,006 --> 00:34:45,286 Speaker 4: many effects on the neurodevelopmental health of the child and 695 00:34:46,205 --> 00:34:49,685 Speaker 4: bonding between the child and the mum and lots of 696 00:34:49,926 --> 00:34:53,806 Speaker 4: far reaching effects. So what we say these days is 697 00:34:54,526 --> 00:34:57,245 Speaker 4: if you need to be on medication to optimize your 698 00:34:57,286 --> 00:35:01,006 Speaker 4: mental health in the antiinatal period, then it's best to 699 00:35:01,085 --> 00:35:04,725 Speaker 4: be on that medication. And if that keeps you as 700 00:35:04,846 --> 00:35:07,606 Speaker 4: good as you can be, that's fantastic. And we really 701 00:35:07,806 --> 00:35:12,406 Speaker 4: take people's mental health anti Natalie and post Natalie very 702 00:35:12,526 --> 00:35:13,286 Speaker 4: very seriously. 703 00:35:17,246 --> 00:35:20,085 Speaker 1: Diary of Birth was hosted by me Cassenia Lukitch with 704 00:35:20,286 --> 00:35:24,245 Speaker 1: expert input from doctor Bronwin Devine. And while we have you, 705 00:35:24,366 --> 00:35:28,406 Speaker 1: we're on the hunt to share powerful underrepresented stories from 706 00:35:28,486 --> 00:35:33,085 Speaker 1: people of all cultures, backgrounds, and abilities. If your birth 707 00:35:33,165 --> 00:35:36,926 Speaker 1: story felt different, please reach out. Details are in the 708 00:35:36,966 --> 00:35:41,125 Speaker 1: show notes. This episode was produced by Tina Mattalov and 709 00:35:41,326 --> 00:35:51,646 Speaker 1: myself Cassena Lukitch, with audio production by Leah Porges. Mamma 710 00:35:51,725 --> 00:35:54,445 Speaker 1: Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of the land. 711 00:35:54,605 --> 00:35:57,926 Speaker 3: We have recorded this podcast on the Gadigul people of 712 00:35:58,006 --> 00:35:58,925 Speaker 3: the Eora Nation. 713 00:35:59,685 --> 00:36:02,486 Speaker 2: We pay our respects to their elders past and present, 714 00:36:02,926 --> 00:36:06,205 Speaker 2: and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and torrest Rait 715 00:36:06,246 --> 00:36:07,125 Speaker 2: Islander cultures