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Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.

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Speaker 2: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters

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Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on.

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Speaker 1: We've got the first generation of parents who were parenting

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Speaker 1: issues that they never experienced. So when I was growing

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Speaker 1: up and you were growing up Gen x's.

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Speaker 3: Were growing up, it was like, Yeah, we did all the.

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Speaker 1: Same naughty shit that our parents did. They have lived experience,

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Speaker 1: and the things we were doing not even do we

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Speaker 1: not have lived experience of this stuff. We don't even

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Speaker 1: understand the words.

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Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to Mama Mia. Out loud. It's what

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Speaker 2: women are actually talking about on Monday, the twenty fourth

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Speaker 2: of March. My name is Hollywayne Wright.

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Speaker 4: My name's Mia Friedman, and today we are joined by

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Speaker 4: Amelia Leicester.

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Speaker 2: I think I was supposed to say that, Sorry, Amelia.

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Speaker 2: Welcome Amelia Lester filling in for Jesse Steve.

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Speaker 4: Thank you. Amelia is delighted to be here on.

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Speaker 2: This show today. Luckily for you out loud, as we

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Speaker 2: are here to bust some very important fake pyramid news.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to the Anatomy of a conspiracy. Also the eighty

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Speaker 2: twenty theory that everyone's madly googling after the TV phenomenon

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Speaker 2: that is adolescence, and one of the stars of the

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Speaker 2: White Lotus wants you to stop asking about his penis please,

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Speaker 2: but first Mia.

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Speaker 1: In case you missed it. Fresh from his stint at

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Speaker 1: the Olympics, Snoop Dogg has a new job, and that

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Speaker 1: is peace invoy between the royal brothers, William and Harry.

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Speaker 3: The rapper has said that he would be happy this week.

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Speaker 1: To act as a peacemaker between William and Harry because

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Speaker 1: life is too short, as he said, and he said

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Speaker 1: that he was willing to help heal that relationship between

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Speaker 1: the estranged men. Well that's random, you may be thinking.

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Speaker 1: Does he even know them? Well, yes, yes he actually does,

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Speaker 1: he said. Harry and William I have known for a

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Speaker 1: long time now. Harry asked me to perform at William's

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Speaker 1: bachelor party, but I couldn't make it. Anything they want

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Speaker 1: to perform at Now I am there. They are brothers, man.

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Speaker 1: Anything that gets them in the same room and being

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Speaker 1: brothers again will be worth it.

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Speaker 4: Look Snoop has lived many lives. I think if anyone

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Speaker 4: can bring the life experience necessary to heal this rift,

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Speaker 4: it's Snoop. I don't know if you know this, but

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Speaker 4: he was a member of a La gang in his

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Speaker 4: twenties and actually was acquitted at first degree murder.

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Speaker 1: I didn't know that, And who I knew is that

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Speaker 1: he's Martha Stewart's new best friend.

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Speaker 4: He is, but in his thirties he became a born

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Speaker 4: again Christian. So he has lived many lives and you know,

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Speaker 4: most recently he was in this controversial appearance at Trump's inauguration.

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Speaker 4: He went to the Crypto Ball and performed there, and

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Speaker 4: that was very controversial because he previously said that black

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Speaker 4: artists should not support Donald Trump, and now he's all

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Speaker 4: in on Crypto. He's all in on Trump, So I

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Speaker 4: mean he is someone who's capable of changing his mind.

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Speaker 4: We know that.

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Speaker 2: I also think he would be really fun over at

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Speaker 2: lunch at Montecito. I think he'd have some ideas for

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Speaker 2: Megan's garden and things that she could grow in the

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Speaker 2: back garden.

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Speaker 3: She could roll in a nice, juicy blunt.

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Speaker 2: I think he'd like that, and I have high helps

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Speaker 2: that he could, you know, have a peace summit between

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Speaker 2: the two brothers. It needs to happen. I need a

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Speaker 2: new chapter in that.

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Speaker 4: Because you remember when Princess Kate tried it at Prince

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Speaker 4: Philip's funeral. She's sort of. She brought them together as

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Speaker 4: they were walking out, and then she purled back, and

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Speaker 4: then William and Harry walked together for a few moments,

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Speaker 4: but to no avail tense.

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Speaker 2: The thing about out Louders is that we're a curious people.

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Speaker 2: We like information, we like news, we like a little

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Speaker 2: bit of gossip, and yes, sometimes we like to get

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Speaker 2: swept up in an exciting conspiracy theory. That's why one

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Speaker 2: of our number jumped into the out Louders Facebook group

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Speaker 2: on the weekend and asked an innocent enough question about

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Speaker 2: a secret world beneath the pyramids of Northern Africa. The

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Speaker 2: post went like this, just went to a friend's house

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Speaker 2: and she was telling me about this amazing underground system

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Speaker 2: that's just been discovered under the pyramids a couple of

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Speaker 2: days ago, and that it's breaking news.

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Speaker 4: And wow.

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Speaker 2: Then I take a look on CNN, BBC News dot

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Speaker 2: com and ABC to find out more, but there's nothing

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Speaker 2: to be found. Why wouldn't something like this beyond the

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Speaker 2: mainstream media, she says.

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Speaker 4: Was the friend snoop dog that would be great.

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Speaker 2: Spoke to my husband and he knew about it, and said,

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Speaker 2: the mainstream media don't want to publicize these sorts of

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Speaker 2: discoveries now. Other outluders jumped in immediately, telling her that

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Speaker 2: she and her friend and her husband presumably were victims

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Speaker 2: of a conspiracy theory, and it's a theory that's been

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Speaker 2: around for a while, but has recently had new life

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Speaker 2: breathed into on TikTok, of course, where creators are posting

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Speaker 2: lots of videos talking about a paper that declares there's

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Speaker 2: a vast secret city underneath the Pyramids, exposed by satellite radar.

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Speaker 2: The reason that our out louder could not find this, however,

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Speaker 2: on those credible news sites, is that it has widely

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Speaker 2: been debunked. Leading egyptologists and archaeologists who've worked in this

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Speaker 2: field for decades say it's impossible, and scientists out the

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Speaker 2: accuracy of the supposed like radar be or whatever that

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Speaker 2: have been shot down from satellites apparently to expose this.

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Speaker 2: They say that's impossible. It couldn't penetrate that far underground,

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Speaker 2: and they're.

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Speaker 1: Trying to say that there's a city under there, like

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Speaker 1: with people in it.

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Speaker 2: I don't think they're saying there are people, but they're saying,

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Speaker 2: it's like a whole world of chambers and cities. This

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Speaker 2: is one of the interesting points about it me because

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Speaker 2: I'm like, why do we care so much any people there?

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Speaker 1: Because the QAnon had that conspiracy theory years ago about

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Speaker 1: these underground tunnels through New York being used to washing

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Speaker 1: children to Washington.

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Speaker 4: There was a pizza shop.

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Speaker 3: Oh, that's right, they.

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Speaker 1: Were being used to smuggle children who were being trafficked.

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Speaker 1: So people do like a tunnel conspiracy.

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Speaker 3: They do.

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Speaker 2: And I want to know, particularly from Amelia Lester, why

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Speaker 2: we're so keen to believe these days that the truth

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Speaker 2: is being hidden from us, whether it's about secret cities

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Speaker 2: under deserts or tunnels in New York City, And why

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Speaker 2: does everybody really want to believe conspiracy?

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Speaker 4: Because sometimes the truth is being hidden from us. And

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Speaker 4: I bring this as a card carrying member of the

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Speaker 4: mainstream media, but sometimes the mainstream media hides things from people.

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Speaker 4: And the example I'm going to bring up here is

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Speaker 4: at the beginning of the COVID pandemic, when we were

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Speaker 4: told by epidemiologists quoted in mainstream outlets that masks did

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Speaker 4: not work, that you had to get medical masks professionally fitted,

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Speaker 4: otherwise they wouldn't work. And it turns out, just a

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Speaker 4: couple of weeks later, it was revealed that the reason

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Speaker 4: why that was reported that way was because they were

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Speaker 4: trying to save masks for healthcare workers, which is all

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Speaker 4: well and good, love a healthcare worker. But the problem

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Speaker 4: is that the media just very credulously reported this idea

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Speaker 4: that masks didn't work, when we now know, of course,

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Speaker 4: that masks do work.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to pick you up on that now because

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Speaker 1: I think that two things. Really when people talk about

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Speaker 1: the mainstream media keeping things from us, as you say,

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Speaker 1: the mainstream media is everything from the Project to Kyle

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Speaker 1: and Jackie O to us to the New York Times. Right,

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Speaker 1: it's a pretty broad show. And unless it's going to spam,

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Speaker 1: I've missed the invitations to the mainstream media meetings where

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Speaker 1: we're told by I don't know governments what we can

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Speaker 1: and can't write about. And what I do know is

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Speaker 1: that journalists and the mainstream media, who are accountable to

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Speaker 1: things like deformation.

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Speaker 3: Laws, like libel laws, press.

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Speaker 1: Counsel adjudications, sometimes we don't report things until.

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Speaker 3: There are enough facts.

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Speaker 1: When you say credulously, and I think COVID is like

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Speaker 1: a very specific thing that we'd never lived through a

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Speaker 1: pandemic before, and it's so easy to have twenty twenty hindsight.

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Speaker 1: And similarly, everyone said it came from a bat and

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Speaker 1: the markets, and now it seems like it came from

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Speaker 1: a lab. Sometimes you write or you report what you

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Speaker 1: know and what you can verify at the time, and

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Speaker 1: when more information comes out, well then you report that.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't mean you were lying back then covering something out.

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Speaker 4: I've got a more recent example. I knew you were

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Speaker 4: going to say that about COVID. So did you hear

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Speaker 4: about the drones last year? So did you hear you

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Speaker 4: were trying to get me? And I just could sometimes

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Speaker 4: I throw you tidbits in our chat and hope that

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Speaker 4: you'll sort of.

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Speaker 2: You were like that pebbal is not for me.

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Speaker 4: So in November and December of last year, there were

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Speaker 4: these drone sidings on the US East Coast, and I

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Speaker 4: had a number of friends and family losing their minds,

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Speaker 4: thinking that these drones were harbingers of doom. They kept

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Speaker 4: seeing them at night. There were lots of them. I

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Speaker 4: saw videos of them, and politicians were getting in on

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Speaker 4: it too. This New Jersey politician said that the drones

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Speaker 4: were coming from Iran, from the Iranian mothership. Another one

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Speaker 4: other sheep, yeah, that's obviously a technical term. Another one

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Speaker 4: said there was a non trivial chance that China could

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Speaker 4: be involved in the drones. And even the FBI said

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Speaker 4: they did not know where the drones were coming from.

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Speaker 4: So it was kind of fun to start speculating about

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Speaker 4: where these drones were coming from and why they were

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Speaker 4: suddenly appearing everywhere. The government didn't really say much. There

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Speaker 4: was this FBI thing, and then everyone was speculating that

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Speaker 4: war was about to start. They truly didn't know. But

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Speaker 4: then just a couple of weeks ago, President Chump's new

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Speaker 4: Press secretary, Caroline Leave, it came out and she said

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Speaker 4: that the drones were governmental and that they were doing research.

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Speaker 4: What kind of resent, Well, she didn't really say. And

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Speaker 4: also why did we have to wait until now to

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Speaker 4: hear what the drones were about?

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Speaker 3: But that's not about the media. That's about the well.

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Speaker 4: At the time, there were these explainers in the New

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Speaker 4: York Times, that Washington Post and elsewhere saying there's nothing

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Speaker 4: to see here, the drones are nothing. It's like, well,

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Speaker 4: the drones are clearly something.

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Speaker 2: The thing is, though, is that sometimes we don't need

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Speaker 2: to know straight away right And this is often the

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Speaker 2: tension between governments, you know, lawmakers, courts, police, etc. And

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Speaker 2: us annoying journalists who are always like, tell us, tell us,

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Speaker 2: tell us, we're going to dig until we find out,

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Speaker 2: and they're like, we're figuring it out. It's probably better

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Speaker 2: you don't all know right now. This might not be

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Speaker 2: the case with the drones. I don't know, but maybe

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Speaker 2: it took a while to figure out where they were

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Speaker 2: coming from and so on.

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Speaker 3: Like the masks.

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Speaker 2: Is a good point where Mia makes the point that

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Speaker 2: in the pandemic we were all moving so quickly. There's

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Speaker 2: a lot of yelling now about but they told us this,

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Speaker 2: and they told us that, but a lot of those

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Speaker 2: experts were learning on the job. We're not learning on

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Speaker 2: the job, but the research was coming in thick and fast.

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Speaker 1: Remember when we had to sing Happy Birthday while washing

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Speaker 1: your hands.

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Speaker 4: I'm still meant to happy washing your hands.

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Speaker 2: It might turn out that there is a secret chamber

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Speaker 2: under the pyramids, yea geezer, It might turn.

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Speaker 4: To be honest. What I heard from you, Holly, was

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Speaker 4: that they don't yet have the radar to penetrate beneath

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Speaker 4: the pyramids, not that they have denied that the exact

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Speaker 4: The reason.

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Speaker 2: That the BBC isn't saying yes, definitely a you know,

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Speaker 2: a city, and CNN I was saying yes, it definitely

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Speaker 2: a city is because the scientists and everyone are going,

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Speaker 2: we can't verify that yet. So it's a signal of

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Speaker 2: the impatience between a rumor becoming fact that now we

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Speaker 2: jump on that space in between and call it conspiracy.

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Speaker 4: Yes, I just think that we in the media probably

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Speaker 4: do need to do a better job of admitting when

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Speaker 4: we don't know something, when one expert has told us

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Speaker 4: something but they're still learning on the job. We didn't

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Speaker 4: know back in COVID Times that the epidemiologists quoted saying

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Speaker 4: that mass didn't work. We're learning on the job. Of course,

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Speaker 4: now that you say it makes perfect sense, but at

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Speaker 4: the time that was presented as gospel to us.

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Speaker 1: What always strikes me is the naivety of people believing

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Speaker 1: that if the media had this amazing story about you know,

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Speaker 1: cabals of Hollywood elites eating children, or city under their

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Speaker 1: ground or Chinese drones, the media would be cloring over

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Speaker 1: each other to report that right, because from the point

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Speaker 1: of view of journalists, everybody wants to break a great story.

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Speaker 1: But also media organizations want to get exclusives because that

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Speaker 1: makes traffic, which you can want to monetize. And you know,

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Speaker 1: in this attention economy, the idea that the media are

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Speaker 1: suppressing things because someone's told us to.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't think they're suppressing it, but I think

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Speaker 4: sometimes there's not a lot of admission of humility, like

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Speaker 4: we don't know versus nothing to say. Do you hear, folks,

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Speaker 4: there's no underground city. I don't know. I'm hanging out

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Speaker 4: for the underground city.

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Speaker 3: It sounds fun in a moment.

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Speaker 2: What is the eighty twenty theory and why is the

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Speaker 2: world googling it? After watching Adolescence, Tina.

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Speaker 1: Fey wants celebrities to stay in that lane and stop

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Speaker 1: starting side hustles. She does not want to buy Natalie

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Speaker 1: Portman's vegan shoes, Beyonce's shampoo, Cameron diaz Is organic wine,

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Speaker 1: Jennifer Anderson's shampoo, j Loo's alcoholic sprits.

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Speaker 4: The list goes on.

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Speaker 1: Here's what she says on Amy Polla's new podcast after

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Speaker 1: Amy said to her that she had great hair and

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Speaker 1: should start her own haircut line.

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Speaker 5: But you have incredible hair. I feel like you should

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Speaker 5: have a hair campaign. And also I always pushing you

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Speaker 5: to have a glass line. Why do you not have clouds?

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Speaker 5: I don't have a glasses line because I have to say,

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Speaker 5: you hate money. I have a problem with rich people

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Speaker 5: having a side hustle. Yeah, do you mean like a podcasting?

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Speaker 6: No, this is your doing work. I'm saying if you

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Speaker 6: if you sold, like, where would my line be for you?

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Speaker 6: Where would I draw the line?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 5: I know you mean like if I had if I

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Speaker 5: had a rose, if you yeah, you know.

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Speaker 6: If you already have like two hundred million dollars and

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Speaker 6: you're like, also, I need you to be Tina.

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Speaker 5: That is this is where you have to learn from

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Speaker 5: gen Z.

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Speaker 3: I'm sorry, and we have to They don't care, they don't,

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Speaker 3: they don't.

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Speaker 4: They don't judge it, judge it.

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Speaker 5: Well, get you should stop because this is the thing

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Speaker 5: that you have to have a million, you have to

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Speaker 5: have glasses amiliar?

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Speaker 3: Is it very gen x to be?

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Speaker 1: I mean I love a side hustle obviously, so it

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Speaker 1: doesn't apply to me. But do you think that.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, the idea of selling out is classic gen X,

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Speaker 4: and I think it's part of why we've seen such

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Speaker 4: a big backlash against Ryan Reynolds and Blake Lively. I mean, yes,

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Speaker 4: there's the texts of it all, but also Ryan Reynolds

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Speaker 4: has been selling his gin for a long time now.

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Speaker 4: His wife, Blake Lively, sells hair care and also an

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Speaker 4: alcoholic beverages line. She doesn't drink, by the way, neither

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Speaker 4: is j Loo, who also has a drenk. Jlo was

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Speaker 4: also the one who told us that she uses olive

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Speaker 4: oil on her skin until she wanted to sell us

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Speaker 4: the skincare line. I'm over it. I love that Tina

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Speaker 4: Fair is saying this.

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Speaker 2: I agree it's funny because I'm sure it is gen X,

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Speaker 2: but I do judge it because I'm like, what you

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Speaker 2: get paid. Don't mean Tina Faye, but some a another

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Speaker 2: movie star. You get paid thirty million dollars a movie

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Speaker 2: and you need girose line. But then maybe ordinary people

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Speaker 2: don't understand how expensive their lives are. Because you're right

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Speaker 2: about Ryan Reynolds, but he doesn't only have gin. He

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Speaker 2: also has a phone company. Oh yeah, that's a football team.

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Speaker 2: He owns the world. We live, just live in Ryan

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Speaker 2: Reynolds's world, and like sometimes I'm.

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Speaker 4: Like as Ashton Kutcher, who is now he made some

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Speaker 4: money through acting, but now he's made most of his

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Speaker 4: money through his venture capital firm.

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Speaker 1: But that's very different to selling me a sprits. I mean,

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Speaker 1: Chris Hemsworth has a fitness app, Galgodott has a boxed

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Speaker 1: macaroni cheese company. Scarlet your Hansen has a popcorn st

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Speaker 1: and she's got getting caved in Paris. I don't understand

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Speaker 1: the problem. It's like, for so long, famous people and

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Speaker 1: particularly women, were used to make money for other people

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Speaker 1: by being the faces of other people's businesses, and now

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Speaker 1: these celebrities are saying, well, I'm not in control necessarily

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Speaker 1: of my fame. And also particularly for the women, it's

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Speaker 1: a tough world out there for a woman getting older,

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Speaker 1: so I want a side hustle to use my own brain.

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Speaker 4: It's not a tough world for a man out there

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Speaker 4: when he's older.

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Speaker 2: It's the Kardashian's fault because when the Kardashians became famous,

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Speaker 2: and people used to say, but what do they do?

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Speaker 2: No one says that anymore because they sprook things. That's

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Speaker 2: what they do, but in the day they were spooking

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Speaker 2: public toilets to remember that when there was the time.

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Speaker 1: I still sometimes do they still take money for posts,

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Speaker 1: But then there are also a lot of them are

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Speaker 1: billionaires in their own right because the businesses that they've

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Speaker 1: still like Skims and Kylie cost.

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Speaker 4: And maybe that's where we draw the line. When the

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Speaker 4: company comes across as standing on it so on two feet,

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Speaker 4: I think we forgive it more so. Skims is an example,

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Speaker 4: now has a billion dollar valuation. Selena Gomez's Rare Beauty

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Speaker 4: is now a billion dollar company, and we all accept

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Speaker 4: that that's the best liquid blush there is. When it's

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Speaker 4: a good company, I think we forgive it.

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Speaker 2: J Loo and Britney Spears have both made more money

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Speaker 2: out of the perfumes with their names on them than

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Speaker 2: anything else in their careers, so it definitely works. But

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Speaker 2: it feels like I think what pay is saying is like,

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Speaker 2: how many things do you need to put your name on?

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Speaker 2: And I'm sure you're right that it's a gen x judgment.

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Speaker 3: I'd buy some of her glasses. I wish she'd launch

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Speaker 3: a glasses line.

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Speaker 2: I'm selfish that she hasn't.

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Speaker 4: This next topic is one that makes me really uncomfortable

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Speaker 4: to talk about it, but we have to talk about

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Speaker 4: it because everyone is talking about it right now. And

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Speaker 4: it's the eighty twenty rule. This is a rule of

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Speaker 4: in cells online, who believe that eighty percent of women

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Speaker 4: are attracted to twenty percent of men. The phrase apparently

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Speaker 4: comes from economics. It's from an Italian economist who observed

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Speaker 4: at the beginning of the twentieth century that just twenty

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Speaker 4: percent of Italian owned eighty percent of land. But in

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Speaker 4: recent years in cells have really grabbed hold of this

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Speaker 4: and they use this theory to justify why they deserve

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Speaker 4: sex from women, because they say that twenty percent of

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Speaker 4: men are alphas or chads in their parlance, and they

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Speaker 4: get all the sexual opportunities, while the eighty percent of

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Speaker 4: men who are not chads don't get any love from women,

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Speaker 4: and therefore they can coerce women into sex.

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Speaker 1: So it's like the eighty twenty rule of you wear

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Speaker 1: twenty percent of your clothes eighty percent of the time.

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Speaker 4: It's like that sort of more depressed and impressive. And

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Speaker 4: the reason why suddenly everyone's talking about the eighty twenty

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Speaker 4: rule is because of this show on Netflix called adolescence.

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Speaker 4: This show has triggered a huge conversation about the radicalization

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Speaker 4: of young men, how they turn into in cells, why

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Speaker 4: young men are committing violence against women, why misogynistic violence

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Speaker 4: is on the rise. I haven't watched this show. I

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Speaker 4: don't think I ever will watch it, but I'm grateful

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Speaker 4: to the star and co writer of the show, Stephen Grain,

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Speaker 4: because I think he has kicked off a very important

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Speaker 4: conversation at a world that not a lot of us

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Speaker 4: know a lot about. I want to share with you

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Speaker 4: a clip of him on Jimmy Fallon Show recently talking

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Speaker 4: about why he made the show.

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Speaker 7: It's a young boy who kills a young girl. I'm

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Speaker 7: not doing any spoilers because we found out straight away,

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Speaker 7: and as a collective, we didn't want it to be

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Speaker 7: a who done it? We wanted it to be more

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Speaker 7: of a why why he did it? You know what

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Speaker 7: I mean? So what we kind of did was I

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Speaker 7: watched I read an article in the paper. It was

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Speaker 7: about a young boy who stabbed a young girl to death.

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Speaker 7: And then there was a couple of months later on

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Speaker 7: the news there was a piece about a young boy

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Speaker 7: who stabbed a young girl to death. And these were

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Speaker 7: the opposite ends of the country. And I just, if

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Speaker 7: I'm really honest with you, Jim, I just hate my

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Speaker 7: heart and I just think kind of a society we're

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Speaker 7: living in at the moment where young boys are stabbing

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Speaker 7: young girls and you know that beautiful saying it takes

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Speaker 7: a village to raise a child. Well, I just thought,

401
00:19:00,422 --> 00:19:02,821
Speaker 7: what if we're all kind of accountable, you know, the

402
00:19:02,942 --> 00:19:08,662
Speaker 7: education system, parenting, the community, the government. And also when

403
00:19:08,702 --> 00:19:11,141
Speaker 7: we were kids, we didn't have social media. So if

404
00:19:11,141 --> 00:19:12,621
Speaker 7: we were in our rooms when we were kids, we

405
00:19:12,702 --> 00:19:15,061
Speaker 7: were either playing out in the streets we or we

406
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Speaker 7: were in our rooms I draw them pitches or playing

407
00:19:17,661 --> 00:19:22,821
Speaker 7: keyboards or somethin We didn't have the accessibility to all

408
00:19:22,861 --> 00:19:26,262
Speaker 7: of this stuff in the world that really influences young minds.

409
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Speaker 7: And I just I wanted to take a look at it.

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00:19:27,982 --> 00:19:30,542
Speaker 7: I'm not blaming anyone. I just thought, maybe we're all

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Speaker 7: accountable and we should, you know, have a conversation about it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess it's really great.

413
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Speaker 1: Right, Oh, you're braver than Amelia or I. You watched

414
00:19:40,861 --> 00:19:44,461
Speaker 1: it immediately, as did Jesse, and everyone's talking to you

415
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Speaker 1: about it, and you want to.

416
00:19:45,302 --> 00:19:45,902
Speaker 3: Talk about it.

417
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Speaker 1: What are they saying, like, what are the things that

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00:19:48,982 --> 00:19:50,542
Speaker 1: people are taking away from this show?

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Speaker 2: So I think that the reason that so something like

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00:19:54,621 --> 00:19:57,341
Speaker 2: the eight twenty rule that we decided to talk about

421
00:19:57,381 --> 00:20:00,341
Speaker 2: today is being passed around, and there is some other

422
00:20:00,422 --> 00:20:03,782
Speaker 2: intel in this show from the secret language of emojis,

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00:20:03,782 --> 00:20:06,101
Speaker 2: for example. I think what a lot of people are

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00:20:06,101 --> 00:20:10,422
Speaker 2: taking from this show is they want to s intel.

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00:20:10,621 --> 00:20:12,981
Speaker 2: They want to understand if they can do and if

426
00:20:12,982 --> 00:20:14,941
Speaker 2: they've got children. We talked about this mere but I

427
00:20:14,982 --> 00:20:17,502
Speaker 2: think how are you reacting to adolescents probably has a

428
00:20:17,542 --> 00:20:20,262
Speaker 2: lot to do with your life stage right. Because Jesse

429
00:20:20,341 --> 00:20:24,061
Speaker 2: recommended the show on Friday, it is an outstanding show.

430
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Speaker 2: I also have to do a shout out for hearing

431
00:20:26,621 --> 00:20:29,581
Speaker 2: an accent like that on an American talk show. Don't

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Speaker 2: offer because this is a sidebar, but British creatives usually

433
00:20:34,022 --> 00:20:34,581
Speaker 2: talk like this.

434
00:20:34,702 --> 00:20:35,141
Speaker 8: They do.

435
00:20:36,022 --> 00:20:38,101
Speaker 2: He's a work class man from the North of England

436
00:20:38,141 --> 00:20:40,022
Speaker 2: and he has made one of the most important pieces

437
00:20:40,061 --> 00:20:42,901
Speaker 2: of television to be made in ten years. Because the

438
00:20:42,942 --> 00:20:45,061
Speaker 2: thing about this show is and he goes on to

439
00:20:45,141 --> 00:20:48,182
Speaker 2: saying that he didn't have answers. It's not a show

440
00:20:48,222 --> 00:20:50,701
Speaker 2: with like neat answers and things tied up in bows.

441
00:20:51,022 --> 00:20:55,221
Speaker 2: But what it does is it reflects a whole cultural moment.

442
00:20:55,302 --> 00:20:57,742
Speaker 2: And I think back to the life stage bit. If

443
00:20:57,821 --> 00:21:00,702
Speaker 2: you've got a child in that demo, a thirteen year

444
00:21:00,702 --> 00:21:02,941
Speaker 2: old boy, and obviously I do, and I have a

445
00:21:02,982 --> 00:21:06,022
Speaker 2: fifteen year old girl, so teenagers, or you have kids

446
00:21:06,061 --> 00:21:08,622
Speaker 2: who are younger and coming up to that space. It's

447
00:21:08,661 --> 00:21:10,382
Speaker 2: not new to say that one of the things we

448
00:21:10,502 --> 00:21:12,942
Speaker 2: mostly freak out about and parents talk about more than

449
00:21:13,022 --> 00:21:17,942
Speaker 2: anything else is technology, right phones, social media, input and influence,

450
00:21:18,422 --> 00:21:20,302
Speaker 2: and one of the things that this show does so

451
00:21:20,422 --> 00:21:23,542
Speaker 2: brilliantly in episode two, and I won't go into lots

452
00:21:23,581 --> 00:21:25,182
Speaker 2: of details if you're not watching it is not interesting,

453
00:21:25,182 --> 00:21:29,581
Speaker 2: but basically, the policeman who is investigating this murder, his

454
00:21:29,861 --> 00:21:32,502
Speaker 2: teenage son explains to him because the police are looking

455
00:21:32,542 --> 00:21:34,342
Speaker 2: at all this evidence, you know, they're talking to the kids,

456
00:21:34,381 --> 00:21:36,742
Speaker 2: and the kids aren't telling them anything, and they're looking

457
00:21:36,742 --> 00:21:38,742
Speaker 2: at comments on social media and they're going there doesn't

458
00:21:38,742 --> 00:21:41,141
Speaker 2: seem to be anything here. And then one of the

459
00:21:41,141 --> 00:21:44,542
Speaker 2: policeman's teenage son kind of translates some of the comments

460
00:21:44,542 --> 00:21:44,902
Speaker 2: for him.

461
00:21:45,022 --> 00:21:45,542
Speaker 8: The eighty to.

462
00:21:45,581 --> 00:21:49,022
Speaker 9: Twenty as a listen, my brain can't take all this.

463
00:21:49,422 --> 00:21:51,302
Speaker 8: I don't know what you're talking about. Just break it down.

464
00:21:51,942 --> 00:21:55,302
Speaker 8: Eighty percent of women are attracted to twenty percent of men.

465
00:21:56,502 --> 00:21:59,181
Speaker 8: Women you must trick them because you'll never get them

466
00:21:59,182 --> 00:22:01,061
Speaker 8: in a normal way. Eighty percent of women are cut

467
00:22:01,061 --> 00:22:03,701
Speaker 8: off or or she's seeing he's an insult.

468
00:22:03,661 --> 00:22:07,342
Speaker 2: That and explains that that's kind of coded language of

469
00:22:07,621 --> 00:22:13,222
Speaker 2: the manisphere, and also of the girls using that language

470
00:22:13,262 --> 00:22:15,661
Speaker 2: back at the boys as an insult, like calling them

471
00:22:15,702 --> 00:22:18,461
Speaker 2: an insul and so on as an insult. So I

472
00:22:18,502 --> 00:22:21,262
Speaker 2: think for a lot of parents, they're like clinging onto this.

473
00:22:21,222 --> 00:22:23,942
Speaker 4: Like information we can try and protect.

474
00:22:23,661 --> 00:22:26,262
Speaker 2: Ourselves from this. And then I think, if you're in

475
00:22:26,262 --> 00:22:28,141
Speaker 2: a different phase of your life, you can just watch

476
00:22:28,182 --> 00:22:30,902
Speaker 2: this show as a remarkable piece of television because it's

477
00:22:31,061 --> 00:22:35,421
Speaker 2: famously discussed. Every episode is in one take. Acting is amazing.

478
00:22:35,462 --> 00:22:38,702
Speaker 2: It doesn't offer all those neat little solutions were used

479
00:22:38,742 --> 00:22:41,901
Speaker 2: to in a TV drama. I haven't seen a show

480
00:22:42,022 --> 00:22:44,581
Speaker 2: take hold of people like this for such a long time,

481
00:22:44,702 --> 00:22:47,821
Speaker 2: because I think it's grabbed hold of our biggest fears

482
00:22:47,861 --> 00:22:50,222
Speaker 2: and we're swimming in this awful news at the moment.

483
00:22:50,262 --> 00:22:52,302
Speaker 2: At the weekend, there was an enormous amount of courage

484
00:22:52,341 --> 00:22:54,502
Speaker 2: of the Lily James Inquest, who was a young woman

485
00:22:55,101 --> 00:22:57,821
Speaker 2: murdered two years ago in Sydney. The man who killed

486
00:22:57,821 --> 00:22:59,862
Speaker 2: her took his own life, so we never got answers

487
00:22:59,901 --> 00:23:02,382
Speaker 2: from him, but there's been an inquest and a lot

488
00:23:02,422 --> 00:23:04,581
Speaker 2: of the similar themes come through, even though these people

489
00:23:04,621 --> 00:23:07,982
Speaker 2: were in their early twenties. Rejection, you know, the idea,

490
00:23:08,141 --> 00:23:11,061
Speaker 2: oh yeah, she wasn't as keen on him as he

491
00:23:11,141 --> 00:23:15,302
Speaker 2: was on her. And that's also a theme in adolescence, stalking,

492
00:23:15,422 --> 00:23:18,742
Speaker 2: you know, tracking people's whereabouts, what people say about each

493
00:23:18,742 --> 00:23:21,022
Speaker 2: other on social media. It all feels of a peace

494
00:23:21,982 --> 00:23:24,181
Speaker 2: and we're all just really frightened, and I think this

495
00:23:24,302 --> 00:23:27,022
Speaker 2: show has kind of opened a bit of a window

496
00:23:27,061 --> 00:23:29,381
Speaker 2: for us to be able to go what are we doing?

497
00:23:29,502 --> 00:23:31,782
Speaker 4: But did it make you feel dismay? That's why I

498
00:23:31,782 --> 00:23:32,981
Speaker 4: don't think I can bring them.

499
00:23:32,901 --> 00:23:36,341
Speaker 2: Distress and de spare definitely. In fact, I had to

500
00:23:36,381 --> 00:23:38,821
Speaker 2: watch it in bits, so I said this to you

501
00:23:38,821 --> 00:23:40,701
Speaker 2: guys last week because me and Jesse were talking about it.

502
00:23:40,742 --> 00:23:42,581
Speaker 2: I was like, Oh, it's amazing, it's amazing. And then

503
00:23:42,621 --> 00:23:45,942
Speaker 2: I got halfway through the third episode and I had

504
00:23:45,982 --> 00:23:49,581
Speaker 2: to stop because I literally was getting very distressed. But

505
00:23:49,982 --> 00:23:52,901
Speaker 2: I also think that some things are important enough that

506
00:23:52,942 --> 00:23:54,702
Speaker 2: we have to sit in our discomfort about them, right,

507
00:23:54,782 --> 00:23:57,022
Speaker 2: like a lot of things are. And the thing that's

508
00:23:57,061 --> 00:23:59,181
Speaker 2: interesting about this is now it's broken out into this

509
00:23:59,262 --> 00:24:03,262
Speaker 2: mainstream conversation. I mean, Stephen Graham says, I wanted to

510
00:24:03,581 --> 00:24:06,262
Speaker 2: have a conversation about what if we're all accountable, which is.

511
00:24:06,262 --> 00:24:09,181
Speaker 3: A very big question. The problem is a lot of it.

512
00:24:09,222 --> 00:24:11,141
Speaker 2: Always I was back to phones, which feels like this

513
00:24:11,262 --> 00:24:13,182
Speaker 2: in sol the problem don't let your kids have too

514
00:24:13,222 --> 00:24:16,502
Speaker 2: much access unfitted this idea that Jonathan Hite talks about,

515
00:24:16,542 --> 00:24:21,782
Speaker 2: that we're overparenting in real life and underparenting in digital life.

516
00:24:22,101 --> 00:24:26,942
Speaker 1: What I often think is the hardest thing for our

517
00:24:27,022 --> 00:24:29,381
Speaker 1: generation of parents. And sometimes I feel like I'm a

518
00:24:29,381 --> 00:24:32,582
Speaker 1: little bit of a bridge between old parenting and new

519
00:24:32,661 --> 00:24:37,061
Speaker 1: parenting because I had most of my kids quite a

520
00:24:37,061 --> 00:24:41,341
Speaker 1: while ago. It was before this, it was before the Manisphere,

521
00:24:41,341 --> 00:24:43,262
Speaker 1: it was before I Andrew Taate and I've got a

522
00:24:43,262 --> 00:24:46,861
Speaker 1: teenage son still, but that really vulnerable age of like

523
00:24:46,942 --> 00:24:50,262
Speaker 1: tween and teen. Things were just different then when my

524
00:24:50,381 --> 00:24:54,261
Speaker 1: kids were younger. But we've got the first generation of

525
00:24:54,341 --> 00:24:59,022
Speaker 1: parents who were parenting issues that they never experienced. So

526
00:24:59,381 --> 00:25:01,181
Speaker 1: when I was growing up and you were growing up,

527
00:25:01,222 --> 00:25:02,982
Speaker 1: the Gen x'es were growing up, it was like, yeah,

528
00:25:03,061 --> 00:25:05,942
Speaker 1: we did all the same naughty shit that our parents did.

529
00:25:06,022 --> 00:25:08,782
Speaker 3: Drugs, alcohol, sex.

530
00:25:08,702 --> 00:25:10,942
Speaker 1: All of those kinds of things, you know, skipping school,

531
00:25:11,061 --> 00:25:13,781
Speaker 1: and our parents it just wasn't any different. So they

532
00:25:13,821 --> 00:25:17,222
Speaker 1: could make rules because it was they had lived experience

533
00:25:17,222 --> 00:25:19,741
Speaker 1: of the things we were doing. Not only do we

534
00:25:19,782 --> 00:25:22,382
Speaker 1: not have lived experience of this stuff, we don't even

535
00:25:22,502 --> 00:25:23,742
Speaker 1: understand the words.

536
00:25:24,182 --> 00:25:25,942
Speaker 3: And it's also invisible to us.

537
00:25:26,141 --> 00:25:28,341
Speaker 1: So it's not even as if we can really learn

538
00:25:28,381 --> 00:25:31,861
Speaker 1: about it, because you can't. You can watch a movie

539
00:25:31,901 --> 00:25:34,422
Speaker 1: like this, but of course half of that, the emojis

540
00:25:34,462 --> 00:25:36,782
Speaker 1: and everything in the terminology, that'll all be out of date,

541
00:25:37,262 --> 00:25:39,222
Speaker 1: and it will evolve and evolve and evolve. So it's

542
00:25:39,262 --> 00:25:41,901
Speaker 1: like this secret talk about the underground world underneath the

543
00:25:41,901 --> 00:25:45,821
Speaker 1: pyramids that's happening in the lives of our children that

544
00:25:46,222 --> 00:25:47,661
Speaker 1: we have no idea about.

545
00:25:48,101 --> 00:25:52,101
Speaker 4: And also as the technology has evolved, the challenges have intensified.

546
00:25:52,182 --> 00:25:54,502
Speaker 4: See when I was growing up in the nineties, I'm

547
00:25:54,502 --> 00:25:56,862
Speaker 4: sure listeners who grew up at the same time can

548
00:25:56,901 --> 00:26:00,342
Speaker 4: relate to this. There was one big family computer and

549
00:26:00,381 --> 00:26:02,742
Speaker 4: it was either in the corner of the living room

550
00:26:02,901 --> 00:26:06,101
Speaker 4: or in one of your parents' studies, and it was

551
00:26:06,141 --> 00:26:09,341
Speaker 4: this enormous thing, and you couldn't go in there, syrup.

552
00:26:10,101 --> 00:26:13,861
Speaker 4: You would first of all have to dial up then

553
00:26:14,542 --> 00:26:17,782
Speaker 4: and then you'd get on. But that said, kids are resourceful.

554
00:26:17,861 --> 00:26:19,581
Speaker 4: I have to say that when I was on the

555
00:26:19,581 --> 00:26:21,901
Speaker 4: Internet in the nineties, I was going to chat rooms

556
00:26:21,942 --> 00:26:25,302
Speaker 4: and talking to people. My parents had no idea. But

557
00:26:25,381 --> 00:26:27,861
Speaker 4: the difference is I guess that that's just ramped up

558
00:26:27,901 --> 00:26:29,022
Speaker 4: even more since then.

559
00:26:29,702 --> 00:26:32,941
Speaker 2: It's true, and it's interesting because obviously you can be

560
00:26:32,982 --> 00:26:35,022
Speaker 2: semi literate. To your point me that there's a whole

561
00:26:35,101 --> 00:26:36,821
Speaker 2: language we don't understand, which I think is why a

562
00:26:36,861 --> 00:26:38,982
Speaker 2: lot of parents are seizing on the details of this show.

563
00:26:39,462 --> 00:26:41,181
Speaker 2: There's a whole longs you don't understand it. If you're

564
00:26:41,222 --> 00:26:43,821
Speaker 2: semi literate, sometimes it can be clumsier than if you

565
00:26:43,821 --> 00:26:46,182
Speaker 2: don't understand it at all. My son will be watching

566
00:26:46,262 --> 00:26:48,581
Speaker 2: YouTube shorts and I'll be like, what's that about, And

567
00:26:48,581 --> 00:26:50,381
Speaker 2: he'll be like, it's about Minecraft, And I'm like, is

568
00:26:50,422 --> 00:26:52,941
Speaker 2: it though, or are you being radicalized by the manisphere?

569
00:26:53,262 --> 00:26:57,101
Speaker 2: You know, like there's probably coded messages in this that

570
00:26:57,141 --> 00:26:59,821
Speaker 2: I don't understand, and you're like, and parenting from a

571
00:26:59,821 --> 00:27:02,742
Speaker 2: place of fear is never a good place to parent from.

572
00:27:02,861 --> 00:27:03,861
Speaker 3: My son was listening to You.

573
00:27:03,942 --> 00:27:05,702
Speaker 1: Got in the car the other day and my bluetooth

574
00:27:05,742 --> 00:27:07,622
Speaker 1: picked up his phone and he was listening to a podcast,

575
00:27:07,621 --> 00:27:08,022
Speaker 1: and I was.

576
00:27:07,982 --> 00:27:10,141
Speaker 3: Like, what's this podcast about? Who is the same?

577
00:27:10,302 --> 00:27:12,821
Speaker 1: Is it someone radicalizing you? What are they talking about?

578
00:27:12,861 --> 00:27:16,021
Speaker 4: But how do we avoid the moral panic? Because hasn't

579
00:27:16,101 --> 00:27:19,901
Speaker 4: every parenting generation thought that there was something profoundly wrong

580
00:27:20,381 --> 00:27:23,461
Speaker 4: or worrisome about what their children were consuming or listening to.

581
00:27:23,621 --> 00:27:25,661
Speaker 4: Didn't parents say in the sixties that the Beatles had

582
00:27:25,702 --> 00:27:29,662
Speaker 4: long hair and maybe we're taking drugs and corrupting their children.

583
00:27:29,821 --> 00:27:33,061
Speaker 2: I think that's all true. And I generally am very

584
00:27:33,101 --> 00:27:36,581
Speaker 2: much on the let's not panic bandwagon because I think that,

585
00:27:36,621 --> 00:27:38,702
Speaker 2: you know, the vast majority of kids are not doing

586
00:27:38,742 --> 00:27:41,861
Speaker 2: awful things to each other, The vast majority of males

587
00:27:41,861 --> 00:27:44,222
Speaker 2: and females in relationships are not doing awful things.

588
00:27:44,022 --> 00:27:44,422
Speaker 3: To each other.

589
00:27:44,742 --> 00:27:48,422
Speaker 2: But there is no question that there is a rising

590
00:27:48,581 --> 00:27:51,381
Speaker 2: influence that is almost invisible to the naked eye, that

591
00:27:51,462 --> 00:27:53,861
Speaker 2: we're always really shocked to stumble across. So when you

592
00:27:53,942 --> 00:27:56,662
Speaker 2: find out how many followers Andrew Tait has, for example,

593
00:27:56,702 --> 00:27:58,701
Speaker 2: and he's just one of the names we know, you know,

594
00:27:58,782 --> 00:27:59,702
Speaker 2: the mainstream knows.

595
00:27:59,942 --> 00:28:01,181
Speaker 3: You're always like what you know.

596
00:28:01,222 --> 00:28:04,101
Speaker 2: And when you find out that he's being flown on

597
00:28:04,141 --> 00:28:06,182
Speaker 2: a jet back into him, like, it's kind of all

598
00:28:06,302 --> 00:28:08,862
Speaker 2: very jolting, and I think that you don't want to panic,

599
00:28:09,222 --> 00:28:13,022
Speaker 2: But the same time you have to be alert, just

600
00:28:13,222 --> 00:28:15,702
Speaker 2: to be tiny but helpful, because there are a lot

601
00:28:15,702 --> 00:28:18,462
Speaker 2: of information being swapped on the internet about this. It's

602
00:28:18,502 --> 00:28:21,141
Speaker 2: a lot of the same information that parents share around

603
00:28:21,182 --> 00:28:24,341
Speaker 2: about technology generally that returning to a time of a

604
00:28:24,381 --> 00:28:27,022
Speaker 2: computer in the lounge room meallya it might be impossible,

605
00:28:27,262 --> 00:28:29,381
Speaker 2: but it's still quite a good idea to keep the

606
00:28:29,422 --> 00:28:32,662
Speaker 2: computer's big screens somewhere public, to make sure you talk

607
00:28:32,661 --> 00:28:34,502
Speaker 2: to your kids about it, even though they do not

608
00:28:34,542 --> 00:28:36,421
Speaker 2: want to talk to you about it. It's very clear,

609
00:28:37,182 --> 00:28:40,661
Speaker 2: it's very confusing. Do you too think, having seen the

610
00:28:40,982 --> 00:28:43,741
Speaker 2: scale of this show and its influence, are you tempted

611
00:28:43,742 --> 00:28:44,382
Speaker 2: to watch it now?

612
00:28:44,622 --> 00:28:44,822
Speaker 4: Oh?

613
00:28:44,862 --> 00:28:48,981
Speaker 1: No, I'd hate that, Like, seriously, I just won't. And

614
00:28:49,062 --> 00:28:51,302
Speaker 1: I know what you mean. It's like, sometimes we have

615
00:28:51,342 --> 00:28:53,102
Speaker 1: to sit in our discomfort and we have to know.

616
00:28:53,542 --> 00:28:56,022
Speaker 1: I feel like with so many things, you can get

617
00:28:56,022 --> 00:28:58,822
Speaker 1: a sense of it without watching the thing itself.

618
00:28:59,222 --> 00:29:02,102
Speaker 4: It sort of reminds me of how I love horror movies.

619
00:29:02,342 --> 00:29:05,742
Speaker 4: I love you, I love reading the Wikipedia plots and

620
00:29:05,862 --> 00:29:07,421
Speaker 4: Nazis horror movies.

621
00:29:09,702 --> 00:29:12,741
Speaker 1: Break The White Loatus star who has asked everyone to

622
00:29:12,862 --> 00:29:15,102
Speaker 1: please stop talking about his junk.

623
00:29:15,862 --> 00:29:19,622
Speaker 2: One unlimited out loud access. We drop episodes every Tuesday

624
00:29:19,661 --> 00:29:23,702
Speaker 2: and Thursday exclusively for Mamma Mia subscribers. Follow the link

625
00:29:23,742 --> 00:29:25,502
Speaker 2: at the show notes to get us in your ears

626
00:29:25,742 --> 00:29:28,502
Speaker 2: five days a week, and a huge thank you to

627
00:29:28,661 --> 00:29:30,302
Speaker 2: all our current subscribers.

628
00:29:37,342 --> 00:29:39,582
Speaker 1: Sometimes you read a headline that is so bad shit

629
00:29:39,661 --> 00:29:41,701
Speaker 1: you have to pause and think about it for a moment.

630
00:29:42,622 --> 00:29:45,742
Speaker 3: The one I read, Yeah, how's this?

631
00:29:46,062 --> 00:29:50,741
Speaker 1: Jason Isaacs regrets bringing up Mikey Madison's volver watch watch what.

632
00:29:52,582 --> 00:29:55,742
Speaker 1: There's just way too many unrelated nouns in that headline.

633
00:29:56,502 --> 00:29:58,742
Speaker 1: And look if you're wondering why anyone is talking about

634
00:29:58,742 --> 00:30:02,382
Speaker 1: the genitals of celebrities. Jason Isaacs who is the actor

635
00:30:02,382 --> 00:30:05,102
Speaker 1: who plays the character of Tim in The White Lotus.

636
00:30:05,142 --> 00:30:06,582
Speaker 3: He's the dad of the sort.

637
00:30:06,462 --> 00:30:10,182
Speaker 1: Of southern family with the three grown up kids. He

638
00:30:10,222 --> 00:30:13,102
Speaker 1: wants you to know that he didn't start this. So

639
00:30:13,222 --> 00:30:13,981
Speaker 1: here's what happened.

640
00:30:14,022 --> 00:30:15,742
Speaker 3: There was a scene in the show.

641
00:30:15,582 --> 00:30:17,582
Speaker 1: A couple of weeks ago where his character is jacked

642
00:30:17,622 --> 00:30:19,181
Speaker 1: up on his wife's pills and he's a bit out

643
00:30:19,222 --> 00:30:20,701
Speaker 1: of it, and he comes down for breakfast in the

644
00:30:20,782 --> 00:30:25,262
Speaker 1: villa where all his family are gathered and he is

645
00:30:25,302 --> 00:30:27,182
Speaker 1: sitting on a chair and he sort of leans back

646
00:30:27,222 --> 00:30:29,342
Speaker 1: at one point and his bathrobe falls open and you

647
00:30:29,422 --> 00:30:33,782
Speaker 1: see his full situation, and his family are like, oh,

648
00:30:33,782 --> 00:30:37,181
Speaker 1: put it away, put it away, and he leaves, and

649
00:30:37,262 --> 00:30:40,221
Speaker 1: of course the internet immediately wanted to know whether it

650
00:30:40,302 --> 00:30:43,142
Speaker 1: was a prosthetic or not, and so that conversation then

651
00:30:43,342 --> 00:30:47,021
Speaker 1: spilled into the press circuit where all the cast are

652
00:30:47,102 --> 00:30:51,421
Speaker 1: doing interviews, and he started getting asked about it in interviews.

653
00:30:51,622 --> 00:30:54,542
Speaker 1: Here is what happened when he was on an American

654
00:30:54,582 --> 00:30:55,782
Speaker 1: morning show with Gail King.

655
00:30:56,062 --> 00:30:58,382
Speaker 2: You're amaking it is because last week we got to

656
00:30:58,382 --> 00:31:00,421
Speaker 2: see a full frontal and it was you, yes, And

657
00:31:00,462 --> 00:31:02,502
Speaker 2: I'm trying to figure out we were talking about being

658
00:31:02,702 --> 00:31:05,662
Speaker 2: impolite you was that a prothetic?

659
00:31:05,702 --> 00:31:07,542
Speaker 9: Well, because we were debating it, because we were a

660
00:31:07,542 --> 00:31:09,142
Speaker 9: lot of people debating. It's all over the exiet and

661
00:31:09,142 --> 00:31:12,262
Speaker 9: it's interest because you didn't answer the question. Well, I'll

662
00:31:12,302 --> 00:31:14,542
Speaker 9: tell you why, because the best actresses year is Mikey

663
00:31:14,542 --> 00:31:16,662
Speaker 9: Madison at the Oscars, and I don't see anybody discussing

664
00:31:16,661 --> 00:31:18,941
Speaker 9: her vulva, which was on television all the time. Now,

665
00:31:18,982 --> 00:31:21,342
Speaker 9: I'm not talking about Swedish cars, you know. So I

666
00:31:21,342 --> 00:31:23,262
Speaker 9: think it's interesting that there's a double standard for men.

667
00:31:23,462 --> 00:31:25,502
Speaker 9: But when women are naked Margaret quality as well in

668
00:31:25,502 --> 00:31:27,902
Speaker 9: the substance, nobody woul dream of talking to her about

669
00:31:27,902 --> 00:31:30,342
Speaker 9: her janitalia or nipples, any of those things. And so

670
00:31:30,622 --> 00:31:32,262
Speaker 9: it's odd that there's a double standard when it comes

671
00:31:32,262 --> 00:31:32,742
Speaker 9: to discussion.

672
00:31:33,622 --> 00:31:36,142
Speaker 4: A bit of a dud d it is a.

673
00:31:36,182 --> 00:31:38,262
Speaker 9: George, because I don't think that people really want to

674
00:31:38,262 --> 00:31:42,382
Speaker 9: know how the sausage is made.

675
00:31:44,422 --> 00:31:46,421
Speaker 8: Is the guy who does the prosthetics, the same guy

676
00:31:46,462 --> 00:31:48,222
Speaker 8: he does the ears and the noses.

677
00:31:48,502 --> 00:31:51,102
Speaker 9: Who says who's got fow?

678
00:31:51,182 --> 00:31:53,542
Speaker 7: But in general, who's the guy you call?

679
00:31:53,702 --> 00:31:56,261
Speaker 9: I genuinely think it would be odd when when there

680
00:31:56,302 --> 00:31:57,941
Speaker 9: are characters in some of the women are naked. And

681
00:31:57,982 --> 00:31:59,221
Speaker 9: here would be odd if you were sitting here and

682
00:31:59,222 --> 00:32:02,542
Speaker 9: you would never dream of discussing this, Amelia.

683
00:32:02,142 --> 00:32:02,782
Speaker 3: Are you out right?

684
00:32:03,022 --> 00:32:07,062
Speaker 4: Oh? Yeah, I've been really railing against this for a

685
00:32:07,102 --> 00:32:12,142
Speaker 4: long time that we don't talk about women's genitalia enough, culture.

686
00:32:11,902 --> 00:32:15,022
Speaker 2: Their bodies in general, like was that a body double?

687
00:32:15,062 --> 00:32:16,022
Speaker 2: Were those really your boobs?

688
00:32:16,022 --> 00:32:17,742
Speaker 3: There's things get asked all the time. I must have

689
00:32:17,822 --> 00:32:18,221
Speaker 3: missed it.

690
00:32:18,342 --> 00:32:20,062
Speaker 1: I know for a fact because I heard her talking

691
00:32:20,062 --> 00:32:23,462
Speaker 1: about it in an interview that Margaret Quali's boobs and

692
00:32:23,582 --> 00:32:27,742
Speaker 1: bum were prosthetic and cgi a combination.

693
00:32:27,342 --> 00:32:27,782
Speaker 4: Of the two.

694
00:32:27,942 --> 00:32:30,862
Speaker 3: So this is just true. Also, I watched Nonra on

695
00:32:30,902 --> 00:32:31,342
Speaker 3: the weekend.

696
00:32:31,422 --> 00:32:33,102
Speaker 1: Didn't see Mikey Madison's ba bah.

697
00:32:33,142 --> 00:32:35,502
Speaker 2: This is why it was a strange anecdote plat because

698
00:32:35,622 --> 00:32:37,382
Speaker 2: you can tell from his delivery. When a celebrity goes

699
00:32:37,422 --> 00:32:39,862
Speaker 2: on a talk show, they've rehearsed what they're going to say,

700
00:32:39,982 --> 00:32:41,582
Speaker 2: so he knows he's going to be asked about the

701
00:32:41,622 --> 00:32:45,022
Speaker 2: prosthetic penis. He's decided that's quite funny. Make the vulvar

702
00:32:45,102 --> 00:32:48,782
Speaker 2: volvo joke hilarious. Like this, you know it doesn't really land.

703
00:32:48,822 --> 00:32:51,542
Speaker 2: But also anyone could have told him exactly what you

704
00:32:51,702 --> 00:32:53,942
Speaker 2: just told him me or that, like, yes, they do

705
00:32:54,102 --> 00:32:57,502
Speaker 2: ask women about their prosthetic breasts and bums all the time.

706
00:32:57,542 --> 00:33:00,462
Speaker 4: And also men who lean into it like I'm thinking

707
00:33:00,462 --> 00:33:04,302
Speaker 4: of Ewan McGregor, for instance, he's famously fond of showing

708
00:33:04,382 --> 00:33:08,022
Speaker 4: him fastbender. Yeah, all fastbender, and I think it behooves

709
00:33:08,062 --> 00:33:10,182
Speaker 4: them to lean into the double sat and say we're

710
00:33:10,222 --> 00:33:11,942
Speaker 4: trying to rectify something here.

711
00:33:12,262 --> 00:33:14,382
Speaker 1: I read it differently, like he is an He's a

712
00:33:14,422 --> 00:33:19,262
Speaker 1: serious actor, serious actor. And you know, there is a

713
00:33:19,302 --> 00:33:23,302
Speaker 1: prosthetic dong in every season of The White Lotus in

714
00:33:24,302 --> 00:33:26,741
Speaker 1: it's a fun fact that I'm happy to bring to

715
00:33:26,782 --> 00:33:31,382
Speaker 1: the show. But I think he genuinely is jack of

716
00:33:31,422 --> 00:33:34,221
Speaker 1: it in the same way that I'm sure women what

717
00:33:34,262 --> 00:33:37,142
Speaker 1: was the phrase you use, jack, I'm sure he's in

718
00:33:37,182 --> 00:33:39,221
Speaker 1: the same way that women are jack of it, But

719
00:33:39,342 --> 00:33:41,422
Speaker 1: I guess he doesn't see the irony.

720
00:33:41,661 --> 00:33:44,542
Speaker 4: No, and I was interested in I looked up Game

721
00:33:44,582 --> 00:33:46,862
Speaker 4: of Thrones and the stats on nudity in that, because

722
00:33:46,862 --> 00:33:49,982
Speaker 4: that was obviously quite famous for its nudity. Turns out

723
00:33:50,022 --> 00:33:53,742
Speaker 4: the final tally was seventy breast appearances, So that's seventy

724
00:33:53,742 --> 00:33:59,782
Speaker 4: pairs of breast, not thirty. Yeah, goodness, and four penises.

725
00:34:00,182 --> 00:34:02,862
Speaker 4: But a quarter of those penis appearances was a character

726
00:34:02,942 --> 00:34:06,102
Speaker 4: checking for genital warts, So we'll knock it down.

727
00:34:05,942 --> 00:34:07,222
Speaker 3: To the game of thrown.

728
00:34:07,661 --> 00:34:10,221
Speaker 1: Well, you'll be pleased to know that there was, of

729
00:34:10,262 --> 00:34:14,622
Speaker 1: course backlash to his backlash, because this is the Zeitgey's

730
00:34:14,661 --> 00:34:17,942
Speaker 1: news cycle, and he's walking back some of the comments

731
00:34:17,982 --> 00:34:18,822
Speaker 1: that he made.

732
00:34:19,502 --> 00:34:24,421
Speaker 3: He clarified in another interview. He said, I used the phrase.

733
00:34:24,102 --> 00:34:26,701
Speaker 1: Double standard, which I didn't mean at all. There is

734
00:34:26,741 --> 00:34:29,821
Speaker 1: a different double standard. Women have been monstrously exploited all

735
00:34:30,221 --> 00:34:34,782
Speaker 1: men haven't. Helg this is a topic points for his publicist.

736
00:34:34,862 --> 00:34:37,182
Speaker 1: He said, it came out wrong, and I was tired.

737
00:34:37,342 --> 00:34:40,542
Speaker 1: I've done so many interviews. I absolutely should not have

738
00:34:40,622 --> 00:34:44,901
Speaker 1: made those two actresses, from my respect, enormously disappointed. He

739
00:34:44,942 --> 00:34:47,902
Speaker 1: then tried to clarify his point further by saying, I

740
00:34:47,982 --> 00:34:49,782
Speaker 1: wasn't trying to say that men have had a harder

741
00:34:49,822 --> 00:34:50,461
Speaker 1: time than women.

742
00:34:50,542 --> 00:34:51,422
Speaker 3: That would be absurd.

743
00:34:51,661 --> 00:34:54,181
Speaker 1: Women have had a monstrous time on camera forever, and

744
00:34:54,221 --> 00:34:55,702
Speaker 1: I hope to God that is changed.

745
00:34:55,822 --> 00:34:58,462
Speaker 4: Not to put too fine a point on it, Jason.

746
00:34:58,422 --> 00:35:01,261
Speaker 2: Bless his heart, honestly, I want to know, though me,

747
00:35:01,502 --> 00:35:03,702
Speaker 2: you know how in this world now where we've obviously

748
00:35:03,822 --> 00:35:06,942
Speaker 2: and for very good reason, got much better. It sounds

749
00:35:07,022 --> 00:35:10,181
Speaker 2: like managing nudity and sex scenes in Hollywood right, So

750
00:35:10,181 --> 00:35:11,701
Speaker 2: we've got intimacy coordinators.

751
00:35:11,741 --> 00:35:12,062
Speaker 8: Now.

752
00:35:12,422 --> 00:35:14,661
Speaker 2: Obviously, the more famous you become, the more you can say, no,

753
00:35:14,781 --> 00:35:16,741
Speaker 2: I won't show this, I won't show that, I'll show this,

754
00:35:16,781 --> 00:35:19,701
Speaker 2: show that. But can you also say I also won't

755
00:35:19,741 --> 00:35:22,821
Speaker 2: talk about it. Do you think that this schnaffo could

756
00:35:22,822 --> 00:35:24,062
Speaker 2: have been avoiding.

757
00:35:23,661 --> 00:35:25,901
Speaker 1: You can't really two things on that. First of all,

758
00:35:25,902 --> 00:35:28,342
Speaker 1: there was another blip in the news cycle about intimacy

759
00:35:28,382 --> 00:35:30,661
Speaker 1: coordinators because in the Gwyneth Paltrow interview that we spoke

760
00:35:30,661 --> 00:35:33,942
Speaker 1: about last week, she talked about how she's just filmed

761
00:35:33,982 --> 00:35:36,261
Speaker 1: this new movie with Timothy Shallamey where she's the older

762
00:35:36,261 --> 00:35:37,982
Speaker 1: woman to his younger man and they have lots of

763
00:35:37,982 --> 00:35:40,622
Speaker 1: sex scenes, and she said, and there was someone on

764
00:35:40,622 --> 00:35:43,542
Speaker 1: the set called an intimacy coordinator that I didn't even

765
00:35:43,582 --> 00:35:45,341
Speaker 1: know was a thing. And I'm just like, that's a

766
00:35:45,342 --> 00:35:48,341
Speaker 1: bit disingenuous, because come on, I know it's a thing,

767
00:35:48,342 --> 00:35:50,902
Speaker 1: and I don't work in Hollywood. And also, she was

768
00:35:51,102 --> 00:35:54,021
Speaker 1: part of the whole Me Too movement when she spoke

769
00:35:54,062 --> 00:35:59,181
Speaker 1: out about Harvey Weinstein and the proliferation of intimacy coordinators.

770
00:35:59,221 --> 00:36:02,102
Speaker 1: Now they just standard on any movie set. Has been

771
00:36:02,142 --> 00:36:03,701
Speaker 1: in response to that, and there are a way to

772
00:36:03,781 --> 00:36:08,741
Speaker 1: protect actors, but mostly actresses, from being exploited. So there's

773
00:36:08,781 --> 00:36:10,502
Speaker 1: this idea that she was trying to do a bit

774
00:36:10,542 --> 00:36:12,861
Speaker 1: of a flex by saying, I'm old school. I'm just

775
00:36:12,862 --> 00:36:15,142
Speaker 1: from the time when you just got into bed naked

776
00:36:15,181 --> 00:36:18,142
Speaker 1: and the director said action and you went for it.

777
00:36:18,221 --> 00:36:21,302
Speaker 1: So this idea of oh, if you're a cool girl,

778
00:36:21,422 --> 00:36:23,781
Speaker 1: you can raw dog your sex scenes. I don't need

779
00:36:23,822 --> 00:36:26,821
Speaker 1: an intimacy but it.

780
00:36:26,902 --> 00:36:30,222
Speaker 4: Parallels with do you recall in the text between Blake

781
00:36:30,342 --> 00:36:36,502
Speaker 4: Lively and Justin Baldoni. Justin Baldoni he texts her before

782
00:36:36,542 --> 00:36:39,102
Speaker 4: filming starts and says, let's set up a meeting for

783
00:36:39,181 --> 00:36:42,861
Speaker 4: you with the intimacy coordinator, and she also blows off

784
00:36:42,942 --> 00:36:46,941
Speaker 4: the intimacy coordinator wrong terminology and says, I don't need

785
00:36:46,942 --> 00:36:49,582
Speaker 4: to meet with the intimacy coordinator. I'm sure it's fine.

786
00:36:49,622 --> 00:36:52,702
Speaker 4: So I think women still face this cool girl pressure

787
00:36:52,781 --> 00:36:55,542
Speaker 4: to say I don't need this. I don't think it's.

788
00:36:55,422 --> 00:36:58,022
Speaker 2: Cool girl pressure. I think it's an expression of power, right,

789
00:36:58,062 --> 00:37:00,861
Speaker 2: Because what Gwyneth said in that interview is she said

790
00:37:00,942 --> 00:37:03,261
Speaker 2: if I was starting out, it would be different. So

791
00:37:03,342 --> 00:37:06,302
Speaker 2: Gwyneth Paltrow isn't worried about being exploited on a movie

792
00:37:06,302 --> 00:37:08,982
Speaker 2: set with Timothy Chalamea or anyone else, because she's probably

793
00:37:09,022 --> 00:37:11,822
Speaker 2: the most poweru person in the room. Right, Blake Lively

794
00:37:12,142 --> 00:37:14,181
Speaker 2: maybe should have been worried the way that all ended up,

795
00:37:14,422 --> 00:37:16,982
Speaker 2: but obviously didn't feel like she needed to be worried.

796
00:37:17,062 --> 00:37:20,622
Speaker 2: The intimacy coordinators are there very much, aren't They to

797
00:37:20,741 --> 00:37:23,941
Speaker 2: protect people from being pressured into things they don't want

798
00:37:23,942 --> 00:37:27,022
Speaker 2: to do, making sure that people aren't being harassed or exploited,

799
00:37:27,102 --> 00:37:27,742
Speaker 2: also to.

800
00:37:27,542 --> 00:37:29,822
Speaker 3: Protect the producers from legal act Yes.

801
00:37:29,661 --> 00:37:31,341
Speaker 2: But I don't think it's so much of a cool

802
00:37:31,422 --> 00:37:34,181
Speaker 2: girl flex as it is a thing of like, if

803
00:37:34,221 --> 00:37:35,982
Speaker 2: I'm powerful enough, I don't need That's.

804
00:37:35,862 --> 00:37:36,622
Speaker 1: A really good point.

805
00:37:36,741 --> 00:37:37,622
Speaker 3: That's a good point.

806
00:37:37,902 --> 00:37:40,982
Speaker 1: What's also interesting, Just back to Jason Isaacs and the

807
00:37:41,142 --> 00:37:44,382
Speaker 1: prosthetic penis for a second. The other thing that strikes

808
00:37:44,422 --> 00:37:47,262
Speaker 1: me about this Mike White is great at getting extraordinary

809
00:37:47,622 --> 00:37:51,822
Speaker 1: actors like Oscar winning actors, really proper capital A actors

810
00:37:51,862 --> 00:37:54,542
Speaker 1: in his shows. Everybody wants to work with him. But

811
00:37:54,781 --> 00:37:57,261
Speaker 1: where there's a little bit of a clash of cultures

812
00:37:57,582 --> 00:38:00,502
Speaker 1: is that these are not actors who are used to

813
00:38:00,582 --> 00:38:03,502
Speaker 1: having to answer those kinds of questions, and yet White

814
00:38:03,502 --> 00:38:06,582
Speaker 1: Lotus is very much a zeiteguy's show, and Mike White

815
00:38:06,582 --> 00:38:10,502
Speaker 1: knows exactly what he's doing by putting in the prosthetic penis,

816
00:38:10,502 --> 00:38:12,582
Speaker 1: because when you have a show that drops week by week,

817
00:38:12,781 --> 00:38:15,622
Speaker 1: you need talking points in every episode that the Internet

818
00:38:15,661 --> 00:38:18,182
Speaker 1: then does a thousand think pieces about and gets buzz

819
00:38:18,221 --> 00:38:19,742
Speaker 1: going and people make tiktoks about.

820
00:38:20,181 --> 00:38:22,382
Speaker 3: So it's kind of a clash of cultures where this

821
00:38:22,422 --> 00:38:22,861
Speaker 3: would be the.

822
00:38:22,862 --> 00:38:25,221
Speaker 1: First time he would be asked about something so undignified

823
00:38:25,302 --> 00:38:25,822
Speaker 1: is his wang.

824
00:38:25,902 --> 00:38:28,901
Speaker 4: And that's a great point because White Lotus is an

825
00:38:29,142 --> 00:38:32,582
Speaker 4: HBO show, meaning it's not on a streaming service. It

826
00:38:32,701 --> 00:38:36,302
Speaker 4: started as a TV show that does drop every week,

827
00:38:36,342 --> 00:38:38,902
Speaker 4: and so that need to create the conversation points is

828
00:38:39,022 --> 00:38:40,942
Speaker 4: much more intense for that than it is for a

829
00:38:40,982 --> 00:38:42,782
Speaker 4: Netflix show which drops all.

830
00:38:42,942 --> 00:38:48,661
Speaker 2: Drops all the one he's dropping Easter eggs or Easter penh.

831
00:38:47,142 --> 00:38:49,582
Speaker 1: And just in case you were wondering, it was prosthetic,

832
00:38:49,661 --> 00:38:51,901
Speaker 1: even though he did not confirm or deny, the rest

833
00:38:51,942 --> 00:38:53,582
Speaker 1: of the cast, we're like, yeah, yeah, we're throwing it

834
00:38:53,622 --> 00:38:55,701
Speaker 1: around on stet it was funny, interesting.

835
00:38:56,022 --> 00:38:58,142
Speaker 2: Oh before we go out louders, we've got to tell

836
00:38:58,181 --> 00:39:00,022
Speaker 2: you about something exciting that we are going to do

837
00:39:00,102 --> 00:39:03,622
Speaker 2: after we have recorded this show today. For Sydney out Louders,

838
00:39:03,622 --> 00:39:06,142
Speaker 2: this is going to be particularly useful for you. On Friday,

839
00:39:06,542 --> 00:39:09,222
Speaker 2: we are going to do a show at the Apple

840
00:39:09,261 --> 00:39:11,262
Speaker 2: Store in Sydney. Live at the Apple Store in Sydney.

841
00:39:11,261 --> 00:39:12,622
Speaker 2: Amelia Lestra is joining us.

842
00:39:12,741 --> 00:39:14,781
Speaker 3: So today after the show, we're going for a rehearsal.

843
00:39:14,982 --> 00:39:17,102
Speaker 2: We are a run through and we thought we'd better

844
00:39:17,142 --> 00:39:19,662
Speaker 2: as a parsa, we better answer some of the questions

845
00:39:19,661 --> 00:39:21,301
Speaker 2: that the Sydney out Louders wo'd like to come along.

846
00:39:21,382 --> 00:39:22,981
Speaker 2: We're asking us about Friday's show.

847
00:39:23,142 --> 00:39:25,982
Speaker 1: Lauren wants to know if she can bring her daughter along.

848
00:39:26,302 --> 00:39:29,741
Speaker 2: Yes you can, Lauren, Yes you can. And Victoria, who

849
00:39:29,741 --> 00:39:32,982
Speaker 2: said that she's having some minor eye surgery on that

850
00:39:33,062 --> 00:39:34,342
Speaker 2: day or the day before, wants to know if she

851
00:39:34,382 --> 00:39:38,701
Speaker 2: can come along with her ipatch. Absolutely welcome, Victoria, All

852
00:39:38,741 --> 00:39:39,542
Speaker 2: pirates welcome.

853
00:39:39,982 --> 00:39:42,022
Speaker 1: It's Friday, the twenty eighth of March at five point

854
00:39:42,022 --> 00:39:44,582
Speaker 1: thirty pm. We'll all be there, Jesse too and Amelia.

855
00:39:44,622 --> 00:39:47,022
Speaker 1: It's completely free and the link to register will be

856
00:39:47,181 --> 00:39:48,102
Speaker 1: in the show notes.

857
00:39:48,382 --> 00:39:50,261
Speaker 2: A massive thank you out Louders to all of you

858
00:39:50,342 --> 00:39:52,741
Speaker 2: for listening to today's show and for being with us.

859
00:39:52,741 --> 00:39:54,462
Speaker 2: Thank you Amelia for filling.

860
00:39:54,502 --> 00:39:58,422
Speaker 4: Thanks for introducing me to the term Easter peen, and.

861
00:39:58,462 --> 00:40:01,021
Speaker 2: To our fabulous team for putting the show together. As always,

862
00:40:01,062 --> 00:40:02,422
Speaker 2: We're going to be back in your ears tomorrow.

863
00:40:02,542 --> 00:40:06,421
Speaker 1: Keep it a classy bye bye shout out to any

864
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Speaker 1: Mum and Maya subscribers listening. If you love the show

865
00:40:09,622 --> 00:40:12,221
Speaker 1: and want to support us as well, subscribing to Mama

866
00:40:12,302 --> 00:40:14,502
Speaker 1: Miya is the very best way to do so. There

867
00:40:14,542 --> 00:40:16,262
Speaker 1: is a link in the episode description.