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Speaker 1: You're listening to Amma Mia podcast. Hello out louders, Holly here.

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Speaker 1: If you're clicking on Friday show hoping you're going to

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Speaker 1: hear a bit of an update of what's happening in

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Speaker 1: Britain with the arrest of the man formerly known as

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Speaker 1: Prince Andrew, you are not going to find that on

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Speaker 1: this show. On this show, you are going to hear myself,

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Speaker 1: Jesse and Claire Stephens having our usual Friday news free

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Speaker 1: conversation that hopefully will send you into the weekend smiling.

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Speaker 1: But if you want to know about what's going on

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Speaker 1: with Andrew, what I think about it, what happened, why now,

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Speaker 1: what it means for the monarchy, all that stuff, obviously

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Speaker 1: we'll talk about it on Monday. But also there is

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Speaker 1: a special little episode in your feed, so go and

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Speaker 1: check out that emergency meeting. Enjoy the show. Hello, and

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Speaker 1: welcome to MoMA Mia out Loud. It's what women are

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Speaker 1: actually talking about on Friday, the twentieth of February. I

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Speaker 1: am Holly Wainwright.

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Speaker 2: I'm Claire Stephen, and I'm Jesse Stephens.

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Speaker 1: And with the two Stephens again.

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Speaker 2: Why was my name second? I know I noticed that

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Speaker 2: Claire must have done the Yeah, yeah, that's weird.

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Speaker 1: Emily Vernham is still traveling, so I get the pleasure

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Speaker 1: of the double Stevens. There's lots of the outloud has

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Speaker 1: been commenting on how good it is to have you

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Speaker 1: two together. The chemistry.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well we delayed the other comments, don't we claim

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Speaker 2: the ones you get kicked out of the group, so

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Speaker 2: you be careful.

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Speaker 1: You have been working on that chemistry since the womb.

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Speaker 2: So yes, exactly.

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Speaker 1: Here's what's on our agenda for today. The most famous

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Speaker 1: magazine editor in the world has sat down with her successor.

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Speaker 1: I wrote predecessor on the notes I'm looking at That

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Speaker 1: was wrong. She has sat down with her successor and

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Speaker 1: they gave a very awkward insight into the generational divisions

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Speaker 1: in your average office.

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Speaker 2: I have so many thoughts on that video, plus the

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Speaker 2: thirty five new dating rules that have unsurprisingly started a

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Speaker 2: fight in the comments section. Woot have you ever been

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Speaker 2: on a date? Clip? Yes? Okay, think you have never

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Speaker 2: been on a date? And our recommendations, including a new

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Speaker 2: discovery that has legitimately changed my life.

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Speaker 1: But first, I want to imagine, like just for a

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Speaker 1: little holiday for the brain, imagine being twenty one year

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Speaker 1: old Apple Martin right with that face. If just in

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Speaker 1: case anyone's confused about the words Apple and Martin being together,

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Speaker 1: this is Gwyneth Paltrow and Chris Martin's daughter. She is

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Speaker 1: for reasons that are not yet clear, but I feel

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Speaker 1: are going to become clear, being pushed on the culture

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Speaker 1: quite a lot.

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Speaker 2: At the moment, I think she wants to be an

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Speaker 2: actor and in a band.

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Speaker 1: Yes, she wants to be an actor. I'm sure she's

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Speaker 1: about to be in lots of things.

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Speaker 2: Apparently she had a rebellious streak which led her to

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Speaker 2: law school for five minutes, and I was like, that's

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Speaker 2: not what my rebellious stroke looked like. But now she's

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Speaker 2: given up Laura, and she's like, jokes, I want to

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Speaker 2: be an actor.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. And so she did a video for Vogue, like

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Speaker 1: a getting Ready video, which actually I enjoyed because she

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Speaker 1: starts with a completely bare face. She's one of the

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Speaker 1: best looking humans on the planet, but she does have

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Speaker 1: some pimples and some dark circles, and by the end

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Speaker 1: she looks different, and I was like, oh, makeup love

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Speaker 1: it anyway.

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Speaker 2: We'd all independently watched that video and had reminds yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, anyway, the bit of it I want to talk

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Speaker 1: about is a very relatable bit I think. Right, she

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Speaker 1: talks about having bad skin when she was a teenager,

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Speaker 1: But the unrelatable part about that is when your mom

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Speaker 1: is Gwyneth Paltrow, she has some fixes up her sleep.

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Speaker 1: This is what Apple said about her acne face.

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Speaker 3: If I have a pimple, it's not the end of

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Speaker 3: my life. And my mom definitely gave me advice and

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Speaker 3: like God bless her, she would ask all of her

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Speaker 3: super goofy people about like where I should go visit

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Speaker 3: I went to the dermatologist a million times. You find

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Speaker 3: a good chill skincare routine and like, drink a lot

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Speaker 3: of water, And honestly, the more that you stress about it,

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Speaker 3: the worst it'll get. Most likely this is all stressed,

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Speaker 3: so honestly, I think that everyone is still gorgeous.

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Speaker 1: Honestly, say, a chill skincare routine she does in this

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Speaker 1: video is at least ten steps long, but still no

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Speaker 1: shape to Apple, Lots of us have fancy skincare routines.

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Speaker 1: But the bit I love about this is there's something

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Speaker 1: about generation ex parents who cannot deal with their children

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Speaker 1: having spots and who will if they have the resources,

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Speaker 1: take them to the dermatologists, give them twenty five products,

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Speaker 1: consult as in this case, they're goopy friends. Now, is

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Speaker 1: this our experience as children, that our parents were fixing

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Speaker 1: our faces. We're different generations, but.

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Speaker 2: Still we are. And two of us had the same

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Speaker 2: mother growing up, but in fact, I think all three

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Speaker 2: of us had the same mother.

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Speaker 1: As Stevens.

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Speaker 2: Very similar people. But when it's Gwyneth Paltrow and your

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Speaker 2: daughter's face is probably an extension of your brand being Goop,

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Speaker 2: And like having good skin is critical to the way

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Speaker 2: that you project yourself. I imagine that there is this kind

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Speaker 2: of unsaid like sweetie, let's fix your skin up. Whereas

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Speaker 2: with our mum it was like this is character built.

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Speaker 2: What are you going to fix your face every time

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Speaker 2: you hate something about it? It's like, well that, and

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Speaker 2: it's actually the world we live in now, yes, And

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Speaker 2: it's like it's a slippery slope. As soon as you

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Speaker 2: fix your skin, you'll have another issue cystic acne, and

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Speaker 2: it hurts. And there was a new drug out on

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Speaker 2: the market that I remember everyone was taking and Mum

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Speaker 2: was like, no, no, no, we're not on principal character building.

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Speaker 2: You are not to take that drug. She was so

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Speaker 2: so against it. I remember watching those skincare ads and

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Speaker 2: just saying, please, it will fix it. Britney Spears says

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Speaker 2: it will fix it. Why would she lie people? And

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Speaker 2: in fact, this is you know recently we talked about

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Speaker 2: petty hills will die on. This is my petty hill, you,

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Speaker 2: Apple Martin, that's not acne. Two or three pimples is

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Speaker 2: not acne. Acne is when it's like a whole part

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Speaker 2: of your face. I remember a girl at school touching

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Speaker 2: my forehead and going ooh bumpy because it was just

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Speaker 2: there was so many bumps, like acnees are real. It's

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Speaker 2: painful and cystic, like it's a real It can be

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Speaker 2: like a health issusue with hormones or to do with whatever,

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Speaker 2: having three bumps like use some clear whistle.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I get that. Although to be fair to Apple,

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Speaker 1: she did say she used to have acne. She wasn't

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Speaker 1: claiming to have it now. Good. But I want to

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Speaker 1: speak for like the helicopter parents, not that I necessarily

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Speaker 1: am one, but there are plenty in my generation. There

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Speaker 1: is something even though we all know that it doesn't

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Speaker 1: matter and our children are beautiful to us at all times.

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Speaker 1: There is something confronting because we all think our children

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Speaker 1: are beautiful, right, whether they are, whether they're not, we

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Speaker 1: all look at them and go, oh, my god, you're

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Speaker 1: the most perfect thing I've ever seen. It's the perfect.

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Speaker 1: There is something very confronting when they break out, like

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Speaker 1: when they go through that very not you're suddenly like,

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Speaker 1: my child is blemished. And I can see how the helicopters,

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Speaker 1: the Queen helicopters, are like, this will not be happening.

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Speaker 2: And in defense of gen X mums, it's like, do

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Speaker 2: you remember so vividly how awful it was the toilet

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Speaker 2: took on your self esteem? And also it can scar,

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Speaker 2: so it's like if you do have really bad skin,

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Speaker 2: it can be something that you deal with for your

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Speaker 2: entire life. So I understand getting involved, but I must

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Speaker 2: say when I've seen instances where the mother says something

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Speaker 2: before the kid does.

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Speaker 1: Something about like you've got to fix your diet darling.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly right. I've seen lots of Facebook groups where

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Speaker 2: on the one hand, it will be mum saying I've

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Speaker 2: noticed my childhoods acne, what do I do? And that

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Speaker 2: always frustrates me because, as we've learned from Apple Martin,

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Speaker 2: and as we've also learned from Kendall Jenner, even if

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Speaker 2: you have access to the best dermatologists, the best doctor,

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Speaker 2: the best ski, all the goofy people, you're still going

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Speaker 2: to get pimples. So skincare is capitalism, like there is

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Speaker 2: only so much it can do. If you're a teenage girl,

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Speaker 2: you're gonna get pimples. And then the other thing I

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Speaker 2: noticed that's sort of in the same world is parents

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Speaker 2: saying I've noticed my child's put on weight.

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Speaker 1: What do I do?

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Speaker 2: Should I say that we only eat healthy food now?

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Speaker 2: And you think, oh no, the complex that almost objectifying

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Speaker 2: your child is going to give them when it's a

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Speaker 2: phase the past.

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Speaker 1: I know, and you're one hundred percent right, but I'm

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Speaker 1: just going to speak with honesty, and they can come

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Speaker 1: up like you can't help, like you have eyes, you

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Speaker 1: look at your child and we all know, like you

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Speaker 1: don't mention it. You don't talk about weight, we don't

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Speaker 1: talk about spots, we don't talk about external appearances because

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Speaker 1: what's inside that matters. But you can see what's going on,

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Speaker 1: and it takes a certain amount of discipline not to

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Speaker 1: be likedars, did we eat a whole pack of lollies?

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Speaker 1: I'm just going to say it, like I'm just going

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Speaker 1: to say it. I can just imagine Quinny doing that,

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Speaker 1: and I can also imagine her going like, when we

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Speaker 1: fix the acne issue, then Apple, we can take you

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Speaker 1: on the red cap until all that time has come.

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Speaker 1: Let's just pretend you want to be a private.

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Speaker 2: Let's pretend you want to do something boring like more.

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Speaker 1: My general experience of having now a sixteen year old

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Speaker 1: and my friends who do is that we're all in

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Speaker 1: awe of how good looking our kids are. Like kids

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Speaker 1: are better looking than we were ever right when I

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Speaker 1: was a teenager, I was not as good looking.

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Speaker 2: They have better skin. Is it skincare?

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Speaker 1: And when I say that, sorry, I don't mean to

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Speaker 1: say like, oh, my daughter's good looking. What I mean

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Speaker 1: is they just seem to know, like how to do

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Speaker 1: their face. They don't seem to be wearing really embarrassing things.

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Speaker 2: We spoke at a high school at our old high

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Speaker 2: school recently, and we looked out and we were like,

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Speaker 2: hang on, this is not what it looked like. Everyone's

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Speaker 2: skin was better. They know how to do their hair.

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Speaker 2: Orthodontic work. I think has come a long way. If

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Speaker 2: they're not taking the risks that we know they don't take. No,

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Speaker 2: but like in a good way, in a classy way. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: exactly right. I think they just get really good advice

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Speaker 2: from TikTok.

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Speaker 1: It was one of the things social media is making

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Speaker 1: their lives better.

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Speaker 2: You come here, I thank you. No, no, I don't have

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Speaker 2: a hair. You have twins to get it.

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Speaker 1: Get it.

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Speaker 2: She can't get it obnoxiously. Can you feel it when

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Speaker 2: I pull it? That's the first time I ever seen it,

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Speaker 2: because I get one on my cheek that grows to

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Speaker 2: like yeah, or I get one in the middle of

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Speaker 2: my forehead that shows up overnight. But you've got one

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Speaker 2: on your chain that's like a long whisker. But I

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Speaker 2: don't think a camera will pick it.

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Speaker 1: For the record, Jesse has never picked me up what

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Speaker 1: twins can do.

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Speaker 2: So I saw it. It was like blowing in the

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Speaker 2: wind a little bit.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, moving on.

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Speaker 2: Last week, the iconic Modern Love column in The New

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Speaker 2: York Times published a list of thirty five new dating rules.

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Speaker 2: The authors Maya Lee and Daniel Jones explained that thirty

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Speaker 2: one years ago, on Valentine's Day, a book called The

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Speaker 2: Rules was published.

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Speaker 1: Oh yes, it was.

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Speaker 2: Was that like a man book that all the men? No, no,

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Speaker 2: it was later, so it was.

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Speaker 1: It was massive. I mean, not my thing, but it

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Speaker 1: was massive and wing of the game. The Rules was

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Speaker 1: all about playing hard to get, basically, don't call him back.

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Speaker 2: And it promised time tested secrets for capturing the heart

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Speaker 2: of mister right. Some of those included things like don't

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Speaker 2: talk to a man first, don't meet him halfway or

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Speaker 2: go dutch on a date, don't tell him what to do,

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Speaker 2: and don't discuss the rules with your therapist. That's always

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Speaker 2: a red flot, which I'm like, yeah, no, that's getting

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Speaker 2: people into an awful situation. The other one was don't

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Speaker 2: call him and rarely return his call. Wait, this is

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Speaker 2: setting you up.

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Speaker 1: For a ver you know, I watched I'm sure we'll

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Speaker 1: talk about it at a later date, but I watched

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Speaker 1: most of the first episode of that new show that's

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Speaker 1: about Carolyn Bissett. Yeah, and this is set in the

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Speaker 1: early nineties, right, and she is a rules girl, that's

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Speaker 1: what we used to call them rules girls. And so

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Speaker 1: she says he asked for her her number and she's like, no,

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Speaker 1: not giving you my number, and he's like well, and

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Speaker 1: she's like, you know where I work? Like it's that very.

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Speaker 2: Rules girl, Yeah, that ain't me.

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Speaker 1: It was like she says to her friend at one

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Speaker 1: point in the beginning, why would he pursue you when

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Speaker 1: he knows he doesn't have to? That is the rules.

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Speaker 2: So I would like to think that those rules are

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Speaker 2: a little bit outdated. So according to the New York Times,

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Speaker 2: there are new dating rules as crowdsourced from their audience,

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Speaker 2: and there are some I'd like to discuss, and I'm

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Speaker 2: sure there are something that you'd like to bring to

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Speaker 2: the table. Rule one was don't be gross.

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Speaker 1: This broad, that's quite broad. How do we.

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Speaker 2: Feels really personally? Don't immediately talk about medical maladies that

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Speaker 2: are gross and controllable.

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Speaker 1: So if em Vernon was here, let's be honest, she

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Speaker 1: would immediately dislike that one. She would be like, he

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Speaker 1: sits in the chair and I've told him about my

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Speaker 1: vaginismus five minutes before, exactly and gross. I'm not saying

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Speaker 1: it's gross, but that would fall into that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, or like your lactose intolerance. I actually find

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Speaker 2: health issues are really interesting topic of conversation, same recent surgeries,

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Speaker 2: somebody might have like Crohn's disease, somebody might have like

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Speaker 2: about like and I actually think a lot of the

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Speaker 2: comments said this was ablest, and I actually am a

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Speaker 2: little bit on board with that. But also, gross things

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Speaker 2: are only gross if you think the person is gross. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: if you think that somebody's hot, then nothing's groll.

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Speaker 1: That's just interesting, I reckon that's true of nearly all

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Speaker 1: these rules, Like it's fine if they're hot, but you're

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Speaker 1: right that it's ablest, but be honest, Like you don't

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Speaker 1: really want on a first date for them to be

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Speaker 1: talking about the klonoscopy or like the things that send

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Speaker 1: them to the toilet at speed, Like I just think

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Speaker 1: that is okay to save that.

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Speaker 2: We've all got those stories and they're fun, but you

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Speaker 2: just hold them in your back pocket for a rainy day,

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Speaker 2: Like I don't need to hear like Jake of a

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Speaker 2: Lordie in an interview talking about and intolerance and the

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Speaker 2: exact issue he's got and how many times it makes

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Speaker 2: him go to the toilet.

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Speaker 1: Later that's later anyway, Sorry, Yeah, got caught up.

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Speaker 4: In that rule.

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Speaker 2: Number five roommates after age twenty eight, No room so

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Speaker 2: and cost of living Christ Okay, so I'm not allowed

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Speaker 2: to be poor.

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Speaker 1: I would not have got together with elderly boyfriend. That

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Speaker 1: was the case when I met him. He was way

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Speaker 1: too old to have flatmates, but he had flatmates. Like,

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Speaker 1: it's the reality of the world.

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Speaker 2: And they're a vibe. What's your issue?

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Speaker 1: They give you people to bond about. Bitches. Yeah, you

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Speaker 1: know what it's like.

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Speaker 2: Cool, they'll live alone in an awful apartment, Yes, in

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Speaker 2: a studio part Yeah. Rule fifteen worrisome names. Avoid men

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Speaker 2: who go by the childhood diminutive of their name e g.

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Speaker 2: John who goes by Johnny nearly is rolling in her

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Speaker 2: as they often remain child like as adults. You can't

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Speaker 2: police someone's name. You can't be judgmental, terrible everyone single. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I read these and just when you're too judgmental, you're

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Speaker 2: all contradicting yourselves because there were a lot of rules

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Speaker 2: that just went And this is a problem with rules

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Speaker 2: is that then you get a new set and they're

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Speaker 2: completely different. I just think if you're going in with

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Speaker 2: that attitude, you're the problem. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So, like I gave my kids, So my son's called Billy,

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Speaker 1: and I have to admit that I did think Billy

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Speaker 1: will be cute when he's little. When he's grown up,

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Speaker 1: people can call him Bill. But what's the tipping point, Like,

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Speaker 1: what's the tipping point between when you get rid of

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Speaker 1: the y?

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Speaker 2: Like?

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Speaker 1: And also in Australia, we don't roll like that. We

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Speaker 1: just put a Y on everything all the time. If

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Speaker 1: he's Davy's Dave O, well oh in that case, and

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Speaker 1: then like are we're not.

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Speaker 2: Allowed to and it's not his fault. His name's Billy,

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Speaker 2: Like it's my fault, that's not his fault. Rule twenty

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Speaker 2: three was the Jane Air test. Holy, I feel like

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Speaker 2: you've got a lot of thoughts about this. If if

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Speaker 2: they won't try to read your favorite book, how will

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Speaker 2: they try to love and understand you?

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Speaker 1: Okay, there were some of these that I've taken a

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Speaker 1: note with and I've said yes, full agreement, and some

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Speaker 1: I like that you're play with you. There are some

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Speaker 1: that I'm going full agreement and some that I've said absolutely,

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Speaker 1: this is absolutely not I do not require my partner

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Speaker 1: to read my favorite books. I'm allowed to like my things,

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Speaker 1: and they're allowed to like their things, and they don't

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Speaker 1: have to be the same in order for us to

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Speaker 1: be compatible. Imagine if I mean, I guess it's cute.

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Speaker 1: I think, what's M's favorite couple Julipa and Callum, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Callum James bond that guy they bonded because they were

338
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Speaker 1: reading the same book or he pretended to be reading

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Speaker 1: the same book or something. And it is great. But

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Speaker 1: on the other hand, like, imagine if I said Janeay's

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Speaker 1: my favorite book and Brent Bread like, no, no, he

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Speaker 1: would never read that book and he doesn't need to know.

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Speaker 2: And what am I meant to play Rory's favorite video games?

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Speaker 2: And I'm meant to watch his chess YouTube video. I

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Speaker 2: don't want to take an interest. I don't think dating

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Speaker 2: should come with a reading list. No, I've got enough

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Speaker 2: to do without more jobs.

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Speaker 1: No, there was something I really liked though. Don't change

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Speaker 1: yourself for dating unless it's a change you would be

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Speaker 1: glad to make anyway, like being tidier or drinking less,

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Speaker 1: says Mary Rhodes, one of the people in this And

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Speaker 1: I think that's a good rule because when we say

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Speaker 1: never change for a guy or a girl, like, I

354
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Speaker 1: totally support that. I don't think you should should give

355
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Speaker 1: oneself a personality transplant. But somebody being a good influence

356
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Speaker 1: on you is not a bad thing.

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Speaker 2: No, and you do sometimes you need a bit of encouragement, yes,

358
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Speaker 2: and you do grow in the same direction, consciously or unconsciously,

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Speaker 2: like if you've got a partner who likes to get

360
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Speaker 2: up early, it becomes harder to sleep in. Like all

361
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Speaker 2: of those little things would actually works.

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Speaker 1: Quite well, never guess that. Meantime, I had.

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Speaker 2: A few that I was speaking to some women in

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Speaker 2: the office, and I also thought about ones that like

365
00:18:06,194 --> 00:18:09,234
Speaker 2: rules I had when I was dating in my twenties.

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Speaker 2: One is, ask yourself after the date if you felt

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Speaker 2: like you were being yourself, because sometimes a date can

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Speaker 2: feel like it went well, but then you go, oh,

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Speaker 2: I don't I feel like I was putting it on

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Speaker 2: a bit or I felt as though I couldn't quite

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Speaker 2: be totally myself or give on a stancewers And I

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Speaker 2: think that's sometimes a hint. And I really liked this one,

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Speaker 2: which is if it's a seven out of ten, like

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Speaker 2: if it's lessane hundred percent, give them a second date,

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Speaker 2: because no one's their best self on a first date.

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Speaker 2: Things are weird, things are awkward. I'm a bit over

377
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Speaker 2: the ick culturally and the idea that, oh, who was

378
00:18:44,834 --> 00:18:46,793
Speaker 2: wearing these socks, or who's wearing these shoes or he

379
00:18:46,834 --> 00:18:49,073
Speaker 2: said this thing, and blah blah blah blah blah. If

380
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Speaker 2: we are going to be that hard and fast about dating,

381
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Speaker 2: I think we're going to miss some really good ones.

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Speaker 2: So I reckon that, don't write people off to quickly.

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Speaker 2: The other one was give yourself a drink limits why

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Speaker 2: I wish I wish I had done that a few times.

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00:19:07,754 --> 00:19:09,594
Speaker 1: That's why it's dangerous to do the meeting for a

386
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Speaker 1: drink thing. Yeah, yeah, because you know, I totally support

387
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Speaker 1: the meeting for dinner thing. Because when I was dating,

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Speaker 1: and I was thinking about this when I was in

389
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Speaker 1: my twenties, for gen X, dating wasn't really a thing.

390
00:19:20,754 --> 00:19:22,994
Speaker 1: We just kind of bumped into people. Like all my

391
00:19:23,034 --> 00:19:25,594
Speaker 1: relationships in my twenties are like you bumped into pople

392
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Speaker 1: started hanging out. Dating apps have certainly obviously made a

393
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Speaker 1: more American in my mind, dating much more of a

394
00:19:31,794 --> 00:19:34,874
Speaker 1: widespread thing. But in my thirties I was dating very

395
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Speaker 1: early days of like online dating and stuff, and I

396
00:19:37,914 --> 00:19:40,554
Speaker 1: made that rookie era about dinner more times than I

397
00:19:40,594 --> 00:19:44,434
Speaker 1: should have, and suffering through because I think you're not

398
00:19:44,834 --> 00:19:47,354
Speaker 1: compatible with as many people as you think you are, really,

399
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Speaker 1: but you can overlook most of that if they're hot.

400
00:19:49,994 --> 00:19:53,394
Speaker 1: But sitting through dinner with someone that you have nothing

401
00:19:53,434 --> 00:19:57,313
Speaker 1: to talk about with is yeah. But if you just

402
00:19:57,354 --> 00:20:00,714
Speaker 1: go for a drink, one drink rarely stays at one drink,

403
00:20:00,754 --> 00:20:03,634
Speaker 1: and then sometimes that's good times, but often it's like.

404
00:20:04,434 --> 00:20:05,954
Speaker 2: And you're just having a good time because of how

405
00:20:06,034 --> 00:20:07,674
Speaker 2: much you've drunk, not actually because of that.

406
00:20:07,874 --> 00:20:10,354
Speaker 1: That's true. What do you think. I've got some questions

407
00:20:10,394 --> 00:20:13,273
Speaker 1: for you about this because I've got some rules I

408
00:20:13,314 --> 00:20:15,793
Speaker 1: think about the split bills because in this list there

409
00:20:15,834 --> 00:20:20,273
Speaker 1: are like three different ideas about split bills, right, I

410
00:20:20,274 --> 00:20:23,114
Speaker 1: think you should always split bills until you know a person,

411
00:20:23,274 --> 00:20:26,194
Speaker 1: because if you don't know them, and particularly in the

412
00:20:26,194 --> 00:20:28,794
Speaker 1: way the world is now, do they think that buying

413
00:20:28,834 --> 00:20:30,554
Speaker 1: you dinner puts you in there? You know?

414
00:20:30,874 --> 00:20:34,434
Speaker 2: I hate the power dynamic, whether it's dating or friendship

415
00:20:34,754 --> 00:20:39,594
Speaker 2: or even professionally. I don't like the power dynamic of

416
00:20:39,634 --> 00:20:42,434
Speaker 2: somebody having paid for me because whether or not this

417
00:20:42,594 --> 00:20:45,154
Speaker 2: is what they mean by it, I feel like I

418
00:20:45,194 --> 00:20:45,914
Speaker 2: owe them something.

419
00:20:45,994 --> 00:20:48,354
Speaker 1: It's interesting because I was hearing and I know that

420
00:20:48,394 --> 00:20:50,114
Speaker 1: he's a bit controversial on this, but you know, Scott

421
00:20:50,154 --> 00:20:52,554
Speaker 1: Galloway has written this book about men. He's a big

422
00:20:52,554 --> 00:20:56,234
Speaker 1: American kind of influencer, business guy, podcast host. He says

423
00:20:56,314 --> 00:20:59,474
Speaker 1: men should, or he's told his sons always pay for

424
00:21:00,154 --> 00:21:03,273
Speaker 1: dates because ultimately men always make more money because of

425
00:21:03,274 --> 00:21:07,073
Speaker 1: the whole like you know, maternity tax, and so he's like,

426
00:21:07,474 --> 00:21:10,074
Speaker 1: it's your duty as a good man to spend that money.

427
00:21:10,314 --> 00:21:13,674
Speaker 1: I don't agree, but also I think always split until

428
00:21:13,714 --> 00:21:16,074
Speaker 1: you know them. Then once you know them and you're comfortable,

429
00:21:16,114 --> 00:21:18,274
Speaker 1: then sometimes they can treat you and sometimes you can

430
00:21:18,274 --> 00:21:19,274
Speaker 1: treat them, and that's fun.

431
00:21:20,114 --> 00:21:22,154
Speaker 2: I reckon the rule is, if you are on a

432
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Speaker 2: first date with a man that you know there will

433
00:21:24,154 --> 00:21:26,474
Speaker 2: be no second date, you are absolutely certain there will

434
00:21:26,514 --> 00:21:28,954
Speaker 2: be no second date, insist on paying for half. I

435
00:21:29,114 --> 00:21:31,194
Speaker 2: always felt really bad when they paid and then I

436
00:21:31,234 --> 00:21:32,874
Speaker 2: went home and I was like, thank you, but like,

437
00:21:32,914 --> 00:21:34,354
Speaker 2: I know there's not going to be another one. It

438
00:21:34,434 --> 00:21:36,874
Speaker 2: just feels like you've left. There's an issue with the

439
00:21:36,874 --> 00:21:39,394
Speaker 2: equilibrium of the universe or something. So I think in

440
00:21:39,434 --> 00:21:41,314
Speaker 2: that case, if they're going to pay the first one,

441
00:21:41,314 --> 00:21:43,754
Speaker 2: then you can pay the second one because you want

442
00:21:43,754 --> 00:21:46,674
Speaker 2: to see them again. The rule that I remember hearing

443
00:21:46,714 --> 00:21:48,954
Speaker 2: this so often when I was dating, and I rejected it,

444
00:21:48,994 --> 00:21:51,874
Speaker 2: and I rejected it, and then when things were right,

445
00:21:51,954 --> 00:21:55,994
Speaker 2: I went, it's one hundred percent true is when it's right,

446
00:21:56,074 --> 00:21:59,194
Speaker 2: you will feel calm, not anxious. If someone likes you,

447
00:21:59,194 --> 00:22:01,313
Speaker 2: you'll know, and if they don't, you'll be confused.

448
00:22:01,354 --> 00:22:05,394
Speaker 1: One hundred and on that. Also, if they want to,

449
00:22:05,474 --> 00:22:08,313
Speaker 1: they will. They will plud date, text you back, and

450
00:22:08,354 --> 00:22:10,994
Speaker 1: you won't have to second guess. I think that it

451
00:22:11,154 --> 00:22:14,394
Speaker 1: sounds brutal, but it's true. It's the truest of all

452
00:22:14,394 --> 00:22:16,273
Speaker 1: the sex and the city isms. He's just not that

453
00:22:16,354 --> 00:22:18,794
Speaker 1: into you. And it goes both ways. If you want

454
00:22:18,834 --> 00:22:21,274
Speaker 1: to you will. If you want to textbaut you will.

455
00:22:21,314 --> 00:22:22,834
Speaker 1: If you want to make the dates, you will. Like

456
00:22:22,874 --> 00:22:24,394
Speaker 1: it doesn't have to be a one way street. But

457
00:22:25,314 --> 00:22:28,674
Speaker 1: there's way too many excuses for like when people are

458
00:22:28,714 --> 00:22:31,033
Speaker 1: just not interested. Yeah, I want to know your opinion

459
00:22:31,074 --> 00:22:32,754
Speaker 1: on this one because this is not really in my

460
00:22:32,874 --> 00:22:37,114
Speaker 1: dating world. But leave on your texting read receipts. Oh,

461
00:22:37,194 --> 00:22:39,994
Speaker 1: I don't. If they freak out about being left on

462
00:22:40,114 --> 00:22:43,434
Speaker 1: red for less than twenty four hours, they are unlikely

463
00:22:43,594 --> 00:22:46,114
Speaker 1: to respect your time. What do you think about that?

464
00:22:46,434 --> 00:22:51,594
Speaker 2: See, I think these like technological ones are just so

465
00:22:51,674 --> 00:22:54,513
Speaker 2: specific to different people in their own context and that

466
00:22:54,554 --> 00:22:57,273
Speaker 2: sort of thing. I do believe that you're right, Holly.

467
00:22:57,394 --> 00:23:00,674
Speaker 2: If somebody wants to pursue a relationship with you, they

468
00:23:00,714 --> 00:23:03,034
Speaker 2: won't leave you on red for twenty four hours, like then,

469
00:23:03,154 --> 00:23:05,674
Speaker 2: They're not going to do that unless there's a family.

470
00:23:05,674 --> 00:23:08,593
Speaker 2: And maybe he's a surgeon. Yeah, and he's got like

471
00:23:08,634 --> 00:23:13,794
Speaker 2: a really the problem, ye problem, and he can't reply

472
00:23:13,994 --> 00:23:17,794
Speaker 2: right now and you need to relax. Yeah, Well that's

473
00:23:17,834 --> 00:23:19,394
Speaker 2: what I was going to say. The one that I

474
00:23:19,474 --> 00:23:22,394
Speaker 2: probably liked the most, and that feels like it's coming

475
00:23:22,474 --> 00:23:24,874
Speaker 2: up a lot in life right now was Rule thirty,

476
00:23:24,874 --> 00:23:28,514
Speaker 2: which is presence, and it says, don't try to reenact movies.

477
00:23:28,634 --> 00:23:30,674
Speaker 2: You are not in a movie. This is your life.

478
00:23:31,074 --> 00:23:33,674
Speaker 2: Just try to be present, be kind, and be yourself.

479
00:23:33,674 --> 00:23:35,593
Speaker 2: Did it make you think of Meredith? Obviously it made

480
00:23:35,634 --> 00:23:37,674
Speaker 2: me think of Meredith's right, because there is a couple

481
00:23:37,954 --> 00:23:42,034
Speaker 2: Luke and Mel, and Mel wanted the notebook the notebook,

482
00:23:42,434 --> 00:23:45,474
Speaker 2: and she can't want the note no, and she wanted

483
00:23:45,474 --> 00:23:49,274
Speaker 2: Bradley Cooper at the aisle and when just a mix

484
00:23:49,354 --> 00:23:53,474
Speaker 2: up a film. Lu was just Luke. She was like

485
00:23:53,754 --> 00:23:57,474
Speaker 2: this suck yeah, And I'm like, you're not in a movie,

486
00:23:57,954 --> 00:24:01,273
Speaker 2: and honestly, you're not giving movie right now, you're giving

487
00:24:01,314 --> 00:24:04,634
Speaker 2: a bit cranky. That's friendly.

488
00:24:04,954 --> 00:24:06,714
Speaker 1: She wants to be in the movie, but I have

489
00:24:06,714 --> 00:24:10,273
Speaker 1: to make it effort. No, and the eternal when you should.

490
00:24:10,034 --> 00:24:13,994
Speaker 2: Have sex, okay, there is no rule there. There is

491
00:24:14,034 --> 00:24:15,874
Speaker 2: no rule about this. You can have sex on the

492
00:24:15,874 --> 00:24:17,674
Speaker 2: first date, you can have sex on the twentieth date.

493
00:24:17,714 --> 00:24:21,994
Speaker 2: It will not impact whether or not the relationship goes forward.

494
00:24:22,394 --> 00:24:25,434
Speaker 2: This is in my own life, in all my research,

495
00:24:25,474 --> 00:24:27,874
Speaker 2: and of course from watching so many seasons have married

496
00:24:27,874 --> 00:24:31,114
Speaker 2: at first sight. Having sex too soon can go wrong,

497
00:24:31,274 --> 00:24:33,313
Speaker 2: waiting too long can go wrong. I just think, if

498
00:24:33,354 --> 00:24:34,714
Speaker 2: the chemistry is there, go for it.

499
00:24:34,794 --> 00:24:37,674
Speaker 1: I have sex when you want to. If you like

500
00:24:37,754 --> 00:24:41,434
Speaker 1: the yurn, drag it out. If you really just want

501
00:24:41,474 --> 00:24:43,794
Speaker 1: to get into it, get into it. Like I think,

502
00:24:43,794 --> 00:24:45,714
Speaker 1: it's an individual.

503
00:24:45,194 --> 00:24:48,074
Speaker 2: Sport that probably if you're in a long term relationship,

504
00:24:48,194 --> 00:24:53,154
Speaker 2: every rule about human behavior and human decency will be broken. Yes,

505
00:24:53,234 --> 00:24:55,154
Speaker 2: it will be better. That's what relationships are.

506
00:24:55,234 --> 00:24:57,954
Speaker 1: Yeah, there are some rules that are very important. How

507
00:24:57,954 --> 00:25:00,114
Speaker 1: do they talk about their X that came up a

508
00:25:00,154 --> 00:25:02,714
Speaker 1: lot in the office. If you go on an early

509
00:25:02,834 --> 00:25:05,874
Speaker 1: date and they slag off their ex, get out of there.

510
00:25:06,234 --> 00:25:08,033
Speaker 1: Their X might be the word person in the world,

511
00:25:08,234 --> 00:25:10,793
Speaker 1: but you'll find that out if they go in with

512
00:25:10,834 --> 00:25:12,634
Speaker 1: that early That happened to me once. I was on

513
00:25:12,674 --> 00:25:14,674
Speaker 1: a date in a young char restaurant with this guy

514
00:25:14,994 --> 00:25:16,994
Speaker 1: and he started eating this really hot chili and he

515
00:25:17,034 --> 00:25:19,954
Speaker 1: said one time his ex girlfriend really hated chili, and

516
00:25:19,994 --> 00:25:21,513
Speaker 1: because she was such a bit, she put lots of

517
00:25:21,514 --> 00:25:24,354
Speaker 1: it in her food. Okay, so you're a crazy, but

518
00:25:24,514 --> 00:25:26,754
Speaker 1: I was out of there. And the other is if

519
00:25:26,754 --> 00:25:29,434
Speaker 1: you are in an environment like a bar or a restaurant,

520
00:25:29,474 --> 00:25:32,154
Speaker 1: how do they treat the staff. I know it's a cliche,

521
00:25:32,394 --> 00:25:34,834
Speaker 1: but it has never steered me wrong. It has never

522
00:25:34,874 --> 00:25:39,273
Speaker 1: steered me wrong. Someone who is rude, dismissive complains immediately

523
00:25:39,594 --> 00:25:42,114
Speaker 1: on an early date dickhead every time.

524
00:25:41,954 --> 00:25:44,794
Speaker 2: Which I think links to another rule, which is values

525
00:25:44,834 --> 00:25:47,353
Speaker 2: over interests. So it's okay if you sit there and

526
00:25:47,394 --> 00:25:51,194
Speaker 2: you go he's really into rock climbing, never going to read,

527
00:25:51,714 --> 00:25:54,714
Speaker 2: and he's never going to read my Jane Eyre. That's fine.

528
00:25:54,914 --> 00:25:59,594
Speaker 2: It's just the value alignment, which I think what people

529
00:25:59,674 --> 00:26:01,834
Speaker 2: say are their values and what are actually their values

530
00:26:01,834 --> 00:26:04,154
Speaker 2: aren't often the same thing. And the only thing that

531
00:26:04,154 --> 00:26:06,594
Speaker 2: will reveal that is time, and it could be six

532
00:26:06,634 --> 00:26:10,674
Speaker 2: months on the track. But little indicators like that, like

533
00:26:10,834 --> 00:26:13,874
Speaker 2: how they speak to even the person who drops off

534
00:26:13,914 --> 00:26:16,474
Speaker 2: of Berretes, like even the way that they interact there.

535
00:26:16,514 --> 00:26:18,513
Speaker 2: I just reckon. It's very, very tomb.

536
00:26:18,474 --> 00:26:20,793
Speaker 1: It's always a tell less of a tell. But in

537
00:26:20,834 --> 00:26:24,354
Speaker 1: our office group one somebody said I don't date only children.

538
00:26:24,554 --> 00:26:26,154
Speaker 2: That was a popular, wasn't it.

539
00:26:26,434 --> 00:26:29,434
Speaker 1: That's not a thing you can say. And then and

540
00:26:29,434 --> 00:26:32,394
Speaker 1: then people were like hold on, and then they're like no, no,

541
00:26:32,434 --> 00:26:34,194
Speaker 1: I mean guys. And then there's a guy like oh

542
00:26:34,234 --> 00:26:37,793
Speaker 1: but that's I'm like, you gotta watch out with that stuff.

543
00:26:37,874 --> 00:26:39,994
Speaker 2: I like it when people are really specific. The first

544
00:26:39,994 --> 00:26:41,874
Speaker 2: one is like, I don't date and she just had

545
00:26:41,994 --> 00:26:43,714
Speaker 2: three professions.

546
00:26:43,194 --> 00:26:48,834
Speaker 1: Was personal trainers, real estate agents. Like okay, that is

547
00:26:48,954 --> 00:26:50,754
Speaker 1: experienced speaking right there.

548
00:26:51,034 --> 00:26:53,594
Speaker 2: My only other dating rule is to pluck your chin

549
00:26:53,674 --> 00:26:56,554
Speaker 2: hair before you go on a date because it hits

550
00:26:56,754 --> 00:26:59,714
Speaker 2: if it hits the light. It's my wedding anniverse three today.

551
00:26:59,794 --> 00:27:00,874
Speaker 2: Do you think it's sexy?

552
00:27:01,474 --> 00:27:01,714
Speaker 1: Beyon?

553
00:27:01,834 --> 00:27:04,994
Speaker 2: It put a little bow on it. At least straight

554
00:27:05,034 --> 00:27:08,273
Speaker 2: in it. Give me, I think it's gone.

555
00:27:08,514 --> 00:27:11,394
Speaker 1: You've never Oh my god, you too. They're like grooming

556
00:27:11,394 --> 00:27:12,874
Speaker 1: each other like chimps over here.

557
00:27:13,234 --> 00:27:15,474
Speaker 2: Yeah I think I got it really Yeah. Yeah, I

558
00:27:15,514 --> 00:27:17,354
Speaker 2: haven't been able to feel it. I would have liked

559
00:27:17,354 --> 00:27:19,674
Speaker 2: to get it myself, because just to have a look

560
00:27:19,674 --> 00:27:20,674
Speaker 2: at it, do you know what I mean?

561
00:27:20,754 --> 00:27:21,074
Speaker 1: Yeah?

562
00:27:21,114 --> 00:27:25,994
Speaker 2: I know, likew she's looking about it. Yeah, it's like,

563
00:27:26,154 --> 00:27:26,754
Speaker 2: is it great?

564
00:27:27,514 --> 00:27:32,514
Speaker 1: Bad? I just need to know in a moment what

565
00:27:32,754 --> 00:27:36,914
Speaker 1: two iconic editors sitting down together told us about intergenerational

566
00:27:36,954 --> 00:27:38,033
Speaker 1: office politics.

567
00:27:42,474 --> 00:27:46,674
Speaker 4: Out louders, it's me and I'm interrupting your Friday out loud,

568
00:27:47,034 --> 00:27:49,354
Speaker 4: no News Fix to fill you in on what we

569
00:27:49,474 --> 00:27:52,274
Speaker 4: talked about in our subscriber episodes this week. On Tuesday,

570
00:27:52,314 --> 00:27:54,874
Speaker 4: we talked about Wuthering Heights and what we thought of

571
00:27:54,914 --> 00:27:56,954
Speaker 4: the movie. Listen to this before you go see it

572
00:27:56,994 --> 00:27:59,074
Speaker 4: if you haven't already, and listen to it if you

573
00:27:59,154 --> 00:28:03,194
Speaker 4: have seen it to hear your views confirmed. On Thursday's episode,

574
00:28:03,274 --> 00:28:06,634
Speaker 4: we had a great talk about Angelina Jolie's new reported

575
00:28:06,634 --> 00:28:10,874
Speaker 4: boyfriend and the people who think she's too old for him,

576
00:28:10,994 --> 00:28:13,714
Speaker 4: and it turned into a really interesting conversation about.

577
00:28:13,434 --> 00:28:14,834
Speaker 1: Women's Faces true story.

578
00:28:15,274 --> 00:28:17,594
Speaker 4: So if you're not already a subscriber, follow the link

579
00:28:17,634 --> 00:28:19,354
Speaker 4: in the show notes and you can listen to both

580
00:28:19,354 --> 00:28:21,594
Speaker 4: of those conversations right now.

581
00:28:23,554 --> 00:28:25,954
Speaker 1: So too Vogue editors sat down for an interview and

582
00:28:25,994 --> 00:28:30,634
Speaker 1: it became a perfect representation of a generational office divide.

583
00:28:31,834 --> 00:28:35,074
Speaker 1: On the surface of things, Chloe mirl the new boss

584
00:28:35,074 --> 00:28:38,194
Speaker 1: of Vogue, is an absolute boss, right. She's like the

585
00:28:38,394 --> 00:28:41,954
Speaker 1: editorial director. She's very cool, she's got famous parents, did

586
00:28:41,954 --> 00:28:46,194
Speaker 1: a Dior She has recently been installed in Anna Wintur's

587
00:28:46,234 --> 00:28:49,594
Speaker 1: old job. Anna Wintaur aka Miranda Priestley about to be

588
00:28:49,634 --> 00:28:51,914
Speaker 1: back in the culture in a big way with Devil Wears.

589
00:28:51,914 --> 00:28:55,554
Speaker 1: Prior to Anna Wintour has not, however, retired or gone anywhere.

590
00:28:55,594 --> 00:28:58,034
Speaker 1: She is still at Vogue too. She is what is

591
00:28:58,074 --> 00:29:01,754
Speaker 1: called Global Chief Content Officer for Conde Nast and Global

592
00:29:01,874 --> 00:29:03,194
Speaker 1: Editorial Director of Vogue.

593
00:29:03,194 --> 00:29:06,034
Speaker 2: So basically, so May she's just done that scene where

594
00:29:06,034 --> 00:29:07,794
Speaker 2: she goes, I'm going to give myself a new title.

595
00:29:07,874 --> 00:29:10,714
Speaker 1: Yeh, she has. So she's still there, but she's not

596
00:29:10,794 --> 00:29:13,314
Speaker 1: the boss boss anymore. Of the magazine day to day

597
00:29:13,314 --> 00:29:15,474
Speaker 1: and the brand day to day, that's Chloe. So they

598
00:29:15,554 --> 00:29:17,274
Speaker 1: sit down for this interview with The New York Times.

599
00:29:17,274 --> 00:29:20,194
Speaker 1: It's all video, and Anna Wintour looks the way that

600
00:29:20,234 --> 00:29:22,754
Speaker 1: Anna Wintour always looks, which is that she's wearing giant

601
00:29:22,794 --> 00:29:25,354
Speaker 1: sunglasses inside, which is just beginning to look stranger and

602
00:29:25,394 --> 00:29:26,314
Speaker 1: stranger and stranger.

603
00:29:26,434 --> 00:29:29,794
Speaker 2: She has seventy six It looks anti social.

604
00:29:30,234 --> 00:29:33,074
Speaker 1: Anna coat and boots and Chloe mirl and they sit

605
00:29:33,154 --> 00:29:35,674
Speaker 1: there and they talk a little bit about, you know

606
00:29:35,754 --> 00:29:38,834
Speaker 1: how it's all going at Vogue. So far, so unrelatable, right,

607
00:29:39,314 --> 00:29:41,634
Speaker 1: But the video went viral for a reason that has

608
00:29:41,754 --> 00:29:43,994
Speaker 1: less to do with fancy shoes and more to do

609
00:29:44,114 --> 00:29:47,354
Speaker 1: with how different generations represent in the workplace. This is

610
00:29:47,394 --> 00:29:50,554
Speaker 1: the bit that got everyone talking magazine budgets right in

611
00:29:50,594 --> 00:29:52,354
Speaker 1: this day and age. And when I say magazine, I

612
00:29:52,354 --> 00:29:56,194
Speaker 1: mean obviously Vogue exists on all platforms now, podcasts, social,

613
00:29:56,434 --> 00:29:59,954
Speaker 1: but they're famously not what they were back in the nineties.

614
00:29:59,954 --> 00:30:02,714
Speaker 1: Everyone was being flown around the world to launch a lipstick.

615
00:30:02,754 --> 00:30:05,234
Speaker 1: There'd be like five supermodels on a shoot in Tahiti,

616
00:30:05,274 --> 00:30:07,074
Speaker 1: and then they'd spike it because it wasn't quite right,

617
00:30:07,474 --> 00:30:10,834
Speaker 1: like they were burning money, right. It was a wild time,

618
00:30:11,194 --> 00:30:14,474
Speaker 1: and so the New York Times interviewer asks Chloe, what

619
00:30:14,514 --> 00:30:18,034
Speaker 1: would you do with a ninety style budget at Vogue?

620
00:30:18,114 --> 00:30:21,034
Speaker 1: And this is what she says, sitting next to her boss.

621
00:30:21,274 --> 00:30:23,994
Speaker 5: You've got me excited thinking about this now, sort of

622
00:30:23,994 --> 00:30:25,674
Speaker 5: what would I do? I would build a whole new

623
00:30:25,714 --> 00:30:29,554
Speaker 5: podcast studio. I would pay everyone thirty percent more. I

624
00:30:29,634 --> 00:30:32,394
Speaker 5: would make sure the social team had more people on

625
00:30:32,434 --> 00:30:35,194
Speaker 5: it because they're working all the time. I would have

626
00:30:35,274 --> 00:30:37,394
Speaker 5: our app staffed more fully.

627
00:30:37,714 --> 00:30:39,194
Speaker 1: But to be clear, but we.

628
00:30:40,754 --> 00:30:44,794
Speaker 6: Have a very healthy budget at Vogue, and how we

629
00:30:44,914 --> 00:30:50,914
Speaker 6: use it and use our resources as constantly changing depending

630
00:30:51,554 --> 00:30:54,914
Speaker 6: on the moment. Okay, last question, the last time you

631
00:30:55,074 --> 00:31:00,594
Speaker 6: felt nervous about thirty minutes ago before this interview?

632
00:31:01,554 --> 00:31:02,434
Speaker 4: Oh for me too.

633
00:31:02,874 --> 00:31:04,194
Speaker 6: I don't get nervous.

634
00:31:04,914 --> 00:31:06,354
Speaker 1: Anna doesn't get nervous.

635
00:31:06,514 --> 00:31:08,594
Speaker 2: I resent you for making me watch that. I found

636
00:31:08,594 --> 00:31:09,714
Speaker 2: it so painful.

637
00:31:09,754 --> 00:31:12,114
Speaker 1: The vibe on that, don't you think right? Is that

638
00:31:12,154 --> 00:31:15,474
Speaker 1: Anna Wintour was like calm down poppy dog the whole time.

639
00:31:15,674 --> 00:31:18,154
Speaker 1: Now I hesitate to ask this question because I used

640
00:31:18,194 --> 00:31:20,394
Speaker 1: to be both of your bosses at a certain point.

641
00:31:20,514 --> 00:31:24,274
Speaker 1: But when you watch this, did you hard relate to

642
00:31:24,434 --> 00:31:27,754
Speaker 1: being like new and enthusiastic in an office environment? And

643
00:31:27,794 --> 00:31:29,474
Speaker 1: bumping into the old guard.

644
00:31:30,034 --> 00:31:32,034
Speaker 2: A little bit. I think there are a few things

645
00:31:32,074 --> 00:31:35,514
Speaker 2: at play, but the overwhelming sense I got watching this

646
00:31:35,634 --> 00:31:37,594
Speaker 2: video was Chloe's baut to Lizza Job.

647
00:31:40,234 --> 00:31:41,034
Speaker 1: I don't feel good.

648
00:31:41,114 --> 00:31:43,794
Speaker 2: I don't feel good about it. I don't think Anna

649
00:31:43,914 --> 00:31:46,714
Speaker 2: is sold on her an. I can see that Chloe

650
00:31:46,714 --> 00:31:48,794
Speaker 2: went out for drinks a little while ago. She tells

651
00:31:48,794 --> 00:31:50,954
Speaker 2: a story about how she put the March issue together.

652
00:31:51,474 --> 00:31:53,514
Speaker 2: Anna said it was great, and then at the last

653
00:31:53,514 --> 00:31:55,354
Speaker 2: minute she pulled her in and was like, where's you

654
00:31:55,434 --> 00:31:56,794
Speaker 2: in all of this? And she was like, I was

655
00:31:56,874 --> 00:31:59,434
Speaker 2: so grateful for the feedback. No, you weren't. You went

656
00:31:59,474 --> 00:32:01,274
Speaker 2: and got a drink with your friends and you went.

657
00:32:02,074 --> 00:32:05,634
Speaker 2: Anna clearly always hated it. At the last minute, She's

658
00:32:05,634 --> 00:32:09,114
Speaker 2: making me redo the entire thing. She's a psycho bitch,

659
00:32:09,274 --> 00:32:13,554
Speaker 2: like you said all of those things. This relationship is

660
00:32:13,794 --> 00:32:18,274
Speaker 2: very complicated, and I think that it's generational, yes, but

661
00:32:18,354 --> 00:32:20,474
Speaker 2: the biggest difference is that one of you has been

662
00:32:20,474 --> 00:32:22,674
Speaker 2: doing it for thirty seven years and one of you

663
00:32:22,754 --> 00:32:26,234
Speaker 2: has been doing it for five months. And it's an

664
00:32:26,314 --> 00:32:31,074
Speaker 2: incredibly generous but also taxing thing to do to train someone.

665
00:32:31,274 --> 00:32:35,154
Speaker 2: Where do you begin to teach someone what you've learned

666
00:32:35,234 --> 00:32:39,994
Speaker 2: over all of those decades. Chloe probably is naive and idealistic.

667
00:32:40,034 --> 00:32:42,114
Speaker 2: And the way she was talking about budgets and oh

668
00:32:42,154 --> 00:32:44,914
Speaker 2: bless them, I love so many thoughts.

669
00:32:44,914 --> 00:32:47,954
Speaker 1: So you used to manage people clak, right, So you

670
00:32:48,034 --> 00:32:49,074
Speaker 1: were so Chloe.

671
00:32:49,114 --> 00:32:51,914
Speaker 2: It was like watching you next to me at the

672
00:32:51,994 --> 00:32:52,554
Speaker 2: same time.

673
00:32:52,714 --> 00:32:52,874
Speaker 5: Right.

674
00:32:52,954 --> 00:32:55,554
Speaker 1: So the thing is about Chloe is that she's worked

675
00:32:55,594 --> 00:32:58,594
Speaker 1: at Forger really long time. But she started as an assistant.

676
00:32:58,074 --> 00:32:59,874
Speaker 2: Worked away, started from the bottom, so.

677
00:32:59,794 --> 00:33:02,394
Speaker 1: She's done all the jobs, right, So she is still

678
00:33:02,554 --> 00:33:06,154
Speaker 1: very much thinking like a worker, not a boss. That's

679
00:33:06,154 --> 00:33:09,234
Speaker 1: one of the things you and anyone who moved up

680
00:33:09,274 --> 00:33:11,714
Speaker 1: the chain at some point went from a work to

681
00:33:11,794 --> 00:33:14,514
Speaker 1: a boss. But you have been on both sides of

682
00:33:14,554 --> 00:33:17,234
Speaker 1: this because you're next to me, yes, Claire, because Claire

683
00:33:17,314 --> 00:33:19,354
Speaker 1: used to be just for context, she used to be

684
00:33:19,394 --> 00:33:22,274
Speaker 1: the editor in chief of Mama Maya. But also you

685
00:33:22,514 --> 00:33:25,994
Speaker 1: had young journals coming into you being like I should

686
00:33:26,074 --> 00:33:28,074
Speaker 1: get paid twice as much and why don't we fund

687
00:33:28,074 --> 00:33:30,274
Speaker 1: this more and why can't we blah blah blah. So

688
00:33:30,394 --> 00:33:32,714
Speaker 1: you know both sides of this. What did you feel.

689
00:33:32,474 --> 00:33:37,154
Speaker 2: Watching I had two major thoughts. One was I have

690
00:33:37,194 --> 00:33:42,314
Speaker 2: to be completely honest. When Chloe gave that answer, I thought,

691
00:33:42,794 --> 00:33:46,234
Speaker 2: I don't know if that's leadership. There's no strategy there,

692
00:33:46,274 --> 00:33:49,674
Speaker 2: like just saying I want to pay people thirty percent

693
00:33:49,714 --> 00:33:52,714
Speaker 2: more and get a bigger social team and build a

694
00:33:52,714 --> 00:33:53,274
Speaker 2: better podcast.

695
00:33:53,354 --> 00:33:55,274
Speaker 1: You do make sure your workers like you, though.

696
00:33:55,234 --> 00:33:59,034
Speaker 2: It makes staff. Yeah, it's exactly what your staff are

697
00:33:59,034 --> 00:34:00,994
Speaker 2: going to want to hear. That would have been my

698
00:34:01,594 --> 00:34:05,554
Speaker 2: answer when I first started as editor in chief. But

699
00:34:05,834 --> 00:34:08,993
Speaker 2: over time you realize that it's sort of got to

700
00:34:09,034 --> 00:34:11,354
Speaker 2: be bigger picture than that, Like you can still want

701
00:34:11,433 --> 00:34:14,794
Speaker 2: all of those things. But Anna would have been having

702
00:34:14,834 --> 00:34:19,154
Speaker 2: an annurs thinking what about the brand? What like? What

703
00:34:19,314 --> 00:34:23,714
Speaker 2: about any of that is actually making us more profitable?

704
00:34:23,754 --> 00:34:27,034
Speaker 2: What about any of that is actually special?

705
00:34:27,154 --> 00:34:29,433
Speaker 1: Team works so hard, which they do.

706
00:34:29,674 --> 00:34:32,473
Speaker 2: I will defend Chloe because she has If you look

707
00:34:32,514 --> 00:34:35,234
Speaker 2: at her career trajectory, she's someone who came up through

708
00:34:35,274 --> 00:34:38,393
Speaker 2: social media. See Anna has a and this was so

709
00:34:38,634 --> 00:34:41,874
Speaker 2: mayor coded. In the first ten seconds, she just goes

710
00:34:42,154 --> 00:34:47,034
Speaker 2: she's not a fashion obsessive. I was like, just Chloe,

711
00:34:47,114 --> 00:34:50,594
Speaker 2: know's you. Chloe is like I quite like fashion.

712
00:34:50,714 --> 00:34:52,674
Speaker 1: Yeah. And also she was the editor of Vugue before

713
00:34:52,674 --> 00:34:54,314
Speaker 1: she was the director so she does know a bit

714
00:34:54,314 --> 00:34:57,473
Speaker 1: about fashion. Yes, that put the other bit that I'd

715
00:34:57,514 --> 00:34:59,994
Speaker 1: love your thoughts because I think this is generational. Is

716
00:35:00,034 --> 00:35:02,994
Speaker 1: when they talk a little bit about how Chloe's got kids,

717
00:35:03,994 --> 00:35:06,834
Speaker 1: Anna's kind of like, yes, it's very important you should

718
00:35:06,874 --> 00:35:10,754
Speaker 1: definite only prioritize your family, and You're just thinking bullshit.

719
00:35:10,954 --> 00:35:14,234
Speaker 1: There is a certain kind of boss who will be like, yes,

720
00:35:14,314 --> 00:35:17,074
Speaker 1: it's very important that you are there for those children,

721
00:35:17,314 --> 00:35:19,114
Speaker 1: but I still expect you to work till nine pm,

722
00:35:19,114 --> 00:35:20,794
Speaker 1: and I will still be messaging you at bath time.

723
00:35:20,874 --> 00:35:21,834
Speaker 1: And that was the vibe.

724
00:35:22,154 --> 00:35:24,794
Speaker 2: Man, Yes, may I suggest you get a full time

725
00:35:24,874 --> 00:35:27,074
Speaker 2: nanny if you want to keep this job. But what

726
00:35:27,194 --> 00:35:30,994
Speaker 2: I thought was interesting about that was Chloe saying like,

727
00:35:31,074 --> 00:35:33,554
Speaker 2: it's so important for me to be available for people

728
00:35:33,554 --> 00:35:35,794
Speaker 2: on the Vogue team and to my kids and my

729
00:35:35,914 --> 00:35:39,954
Speaker 2: husband and my mother. And I thought that is the

730
00:35:39,994 --> 00:35:44,154
Speaker 2: difference between millennials and the Anna Winters of the world,

731
00:35:44,274 --> 00:35:46,554
Speaker 2: which is and I'm sort of torn on it because

732
00:35:46,554 --> 00:35:48,873
Speaker 2: on the one hand, yes, there is this idea of

733
00:35:48,914 --> 00:35:51,834
Speaker 2: bringing your whole self to work and to every aspect

734
00:35:52,154 --> 00:35:56,033
Speaker 2: of your life. But I also thought, Chloe, a man

735
00:35:56,074 --> 00:35:58,194
Speaker 2: doesn't have to say that. A man in a leadership

736
00:35:58,234 --> 00:36:00,754
Speaker 2: position doesn't have to say I bring all of myself

737
00:36:00,834 --> 00:36:05,354
Speaker 2: to my mother, because in a business context, I don't care.

738
00:36:05,474 --> 00:36:08,314
Speaker 2: But there's also something something true about that, Like I

739
00:36:08,354 --> 00:36:11,114
Speaker 2: thought it was very millennial coded, which was she was

740
00:36:11,154 --> 00:36:14,393
Speaker 2: sitting there buzzing with this phrenetic energy of just like

741
00:36:15,554 --> 00:36:18,714
Speaker 2: a woman who is dealing with little kids and who

742
00:36:18,794 --> 00:36:21,473
Speaker 2: is dealing with a very very big job, and talking

743
00:36:21,514 --> 00:36:23,194
Speaker 2: about I don't want to be intimidating when I go

744
00:36:23,234 --> 00:36:25,554
Speaker 2: and pick my from school, and you can tell that.

745
00:36:25,554 --> 00:36:27,034
Speaker 2: Anna Winter was like, why don't you want to be

746
00:36:27,074 --> 00:36:27,913
Speaker 2: intimidating and.

747
00:36:29,954 --> 00:36:33,393
Speaker 1: Why do you think I'm sitting here at these ridiculous sunclass.

748
00:36:32,914 --> 00:36:35,674
Speaker 2: And Anna really didn't like when Chloe talked about her

749
00:36:35,754 --> 00:36:38,994
Speaker 2: kid's lego. Okay, there was a bit where Chloe says,

750
00:36:39,234 --> 00:36:42,834
Speaker 2: you know, we're building this incredible lego in our after

751
00:36:43,034 --> 00:36:45,393
Speaker 2: Anna is basically like kids are important, and you can

752
00:36:45,394 --> 00:36:49,393
Speaker 2: tell she doesn't mean. Chloe is like, my kid is

753
00:36:49,434 --> 00:36:51,953
Speaker 2: building this lego, and Anna walks out of the room.

754
00:36:52,194 --> 00:36:55,473
Speaker 2: It's just like, oh, sorry, I don't give a shit

755
00:36:55,594 --> 00:36:59,154
Speaker 2: about your flash to an image of the lego, and

756
00:36:59,194 --> 00:37:02,154
Speaker 2: I was like, that's because Anna vomited and left the

757
00:37:02,234 --> 00:37:08,234
Speaker 2: room and leg She's like, went less lego, more work.

758
00:37:08,674 --> 00:37:11,834
Speaker 2: But on the other hand, the thing that I that

759
00:37:11,914 --> 00:37:14,554
Speaker 2: really struck me about this was I don't think there

760
00:37:14,634 --> 00:37:19,034
Speaker 2: is anything more annoying than the feeling that you're an

761
00:37:19,114 --> 00:37:22,354
Speaker 2: expert in something and you're sitting next to somebody less

762
00:37:22,354 --> 00:37:26,234
Speaker 2: experienced and bear talking. It's one of the worst annoying

763
00:37:26,234 --> 00:37:30,234
Speaker 2: things so well right, and yet that is the only

764
00:37:30,354 --> 00:37:34,914
Speaker 2: way a workplace evolves, That is the only way progress happens.

765
00:37:34,954 --> 00:37:37,234
Speaker 2: That is the only way a brand like Vogue survives

766
00:37:37,234 --> 00:37:40,433
Speaker 2: because no offense and a winterur but we do need

767
00:37:40,474 --> 00:37:40,834
Speaker 2: to pass.

768
00:37:42,554 --> 00:37:45,034
Speaker 1: And she would say that's exactly what she's doing. And

769
00:37:45,074 --> 00:37:47,794
Speaker 1: the thing that's interesting because when you have been somewhere

770
00:37:47,794 --> 00:37:49,434
Speaker 1: a long time, and you've been a boss a long time,

771
00:37:49,954 --> 00:37:51,314
Speaker 1: you do have to sit there and they'll say I

772
00:37:51,314 --> 00:37:53,354
Speaker 1: think we should all pay everyone better, and you're like, oh,

773
00:37:53,354 --> 00:37:56,954
Speaker 1: I never thought of that. It is that kind of

774
00:37:56,994 --> 00:37:59,513
Speaker 1: an idea that is infuriating, but at the same time,

775
00:37:59,554 --> 00:38:01,714
Speaker 1: thank God for that energy, because I think that there

776
00:38:01,794 --> 00:38:05,433
Speaker 1: is a certain amount of recognition what she's trying to

777
00:38:05,434 --> 00:38:08,274
Speaker 1: say there is I'm recognizing that, yes, I'm the figurehead,

778
00:38:08,274 --> 00:38:11,074
Speaker 1: but all these people are doing all the work and

779
00:38:11,154 --> 00:38:13,314
Speaker 1: out of window was like, that's not how we work

780
00:38:13,354 --> 00:38:15,994
Speaker 1: around here. You are the figurehead and you get all

781
00:38:16,034 --> 00:38:19,034
Speaker 1: of it. I thought it was really interesting. It's interesting

782
00:38:19,074 --> 00:38:21,674
Speaker 1: about the reaction to this because a lot of articles

783
00:38:21,674 --> 00:38:23,953
Speaker 1: have talked about how awkward it was, how maybe there's

784
00:38:23,954 --> 00:38:26,674
Speaker 1: a succession problem at Vogue, because, to be clear, and

785
00:38:26,834 --> 00:38:30,034
Speaker 1: I doesn't look at her, Anna did pick Chloe, and

786
00:38:30,154 --> 00:38:32,354
Speaker 1: one of the ways to read this not to dis Chloe.

787
00:38:32,394 --> 00:38:34,994
Speaker 1: She's obviously a very accomplished person. She picked her, and

788
00:38:34,994 --> 00:38:36,034
Speaker 1: one of the ways to look at this is she

789
00:38:36,074 --> 00:38:38,873
Speaker 1: picked somebody who she could kind of push around a bit.

790
00:38:39,554 --> 00:38:42,794
Speaker 1: But it's interesting to me that they agreed to do

791
00:38:42,874 --> 00:38:46,074
Speaker 1: that interview, that they agreed to have it filmed, that

792
00:38:46,074 --> 00:38:48,674
Speaker 1: they didn't request a serious edit. She is a a wind.

793
00:38:49,354 --> 00:38:52,154
Speaker 1: So clearly Anna Winter is quite comfortable with the way

794
00:38:52,154 --> 00:38:54,993
Speaker 1: that she appeared in that, which is I think that's

795
00:38:55,034 --> 00:38:58,994
Speaker 1: the other generational thing is like Ice queen scary boss

796
00:38:59,394 --> 00:39:02,314
Speaker 1: is fine, and Anna's boomer to be clear, she's seventy six,

797
00:39:02,434 --> 00:39:04,434
Speaker 1: Like she's you know, and I would be lying on

798
00:39:04,474 --> 00:39:07,553
Speaker 1: a beach cout my money if I am. Anyway, that's

799
00:39:07,594 --> 00:39:10,754
Speaker 1: a very okay vibe for that. It's like, I don't

800
00:39:10,754 --> 00:39:12,474
Speaker 1: want to hear your problems about whether or not you

801
00:39:12,474 --> 00:39:14,554
Speaker 1: need to get home to play with Lego. Whereas Chloe

802
00:39:14,594 --> 00:39:17,714
Speaker 1: was it pains to say I care about my staff.

803
00:39:17,754 --> 00:39:19,594
Speaker 1: I care about whether or not they can pay their bills,

804
00:39:20,314 --> 00:39:22,514
Speaker 1: and that is a very different generation.

805
00:39:22,634 --> 00:39:25,354
Speaker 2: There was Yes, I don't want to be intimidating. I

806
00:39:25,394 --> 00:39:27,474
Speaker 2: want to be likable and I want to be relatable.

807
00:39:27,794 --> 00:39:31,514
Speaker 2: That seemed to be central to her brand of leadership

808
00:39:31,634 --> 00:39:34,754
Speaker 2: was that she really wanted to be liked by everyone

809
00:39:34,794 --> 00:39:37,834
Speaker 2: in her life and keep them all happy. And whether

810
00:39:37,874 --> 00:39:40,953
Speaker 2: that gets beaten out of you over years of doing it.

811
00:39:40,994 --> 00:39:43,794
Speaker 2: I don't think that that pressure has always been on

812
00:39:43,834 --> 00:39:46,513
Speaker 2: bosses or managers. I feel as though there's something maybe

813
00:39:46,514 --> 00:39:49,954
Speaker 2: a bit new about that. But she was focusing on

814
00:39:50,074 --> 00:39:55,474
Speaker 2: being personable and full of energy and enthusiasm, whereas Anna

815
00:39:55,514 --> 00:39:58,514
Speaker 2: Wintour was like, no, that's not what I've ever been about.

816
00:39:58,874 --> 00:40:00,674
Speaker 1: I love what particular thing I love about that. In

817
00:40:00,714 --> 00:40:02,954
Speaker 1: terms of the ice Queen is so that. At another

818
00:40:02,994 --> 00:40:05,154
Speaker 1: bit in the interview, they asked Chloe Mile who she'd

819
00:40:05,194 --> 00:40:07,513
Speaker 1: most like to sit next to at the mcparlor. She says,

820
00:40:07,554 --> 00:40:10,714
Speaker 1: Meryl streep, which is a great answer, because that is

821
00:40:10,794 --> 00:40:14,114
Speaker 1: Miranda Priestley. Anna went to a has a little as

822
00:40:14,194 --> 00:40:17,394
Speaker 1: much as Anna wentor would ever chuckle. She almost chuckles.

823
00:40:18,034 --> 00:40:21,513
Speaker 1: I think she has no problem with the Miranda Priestley stereotype,

824
00:40:21,594 --> 00:40:26,754
Speaker 1: that she is hardcore, a task mascut, an unfeeling person

825
00:40:26,794 --> 00:40:29,234
Speaker 1: who you know, couldn't remember her husband's name. I think

826
00:40:29,274 --> 00:40:30,393
Speaker 1: she's fine with it, you know.

827
00:40:30,714 --> 00:40:33,674
Speaker 2: And by the way, I am very staunch on the

828
00:40:33,674 --> 00:40:37,834
Speaker 2: fact that I think our ideas of leadership need to

829
00:40:38,034 --> 00:40:41,674
Speaker 2: be broader, and that that idea of a very narrow,

830
00:40:41,754 --> 00:40:45,794
Speaker 2: intimidating view of leadership needs to be replaced by people

831
00:40:45,794 --> 00:40:48,034
Speaker 2: who are more empathetic and people who have more of

832
00:40:48,074 --> 00:40:52,754
Speaker 2: a three sixty kind of perspective. And i've female leaders

833
00:40:52,754 --> 00:40:55,314
Speaker 2: that you get to be all types. Yeah, there shouldn't

834
00:40:55,314 --> 00:40:57,074
Speaker 2: be one type. And I quite like that they're both

835
00:40:57,114 --> 00:40:59,433
Speaker 2: sitting there, probably resenting each other.

836
00:40:59,874 --> 00:41:01,834
Speaker 1: I like that she has curly hair. I reckon Anna

837
00:41:01,874 --> 00:41:04,714
Speaker 1: would have been like, darling, don't let that happen.

838
00:41:04,914 --> 00:41:08,154
Speaker 2: Anna hated her out. I had to have had so

839
00:41:08,234 --> 00:41:12,993
Speaker 2: many thoughts. I came across a TikTok the other day

840
00:41:13,114 --> 00:41:15,874
Speaker 2: that read, when you finally get a husband and a house.

841
00:41:16,034 --> 00:41:17,994
Speaker 2: That was a text on screen and it was a

842
00:41:18,074 --> 00:41:21,674
Speaker 2: video which like, would be nice, I imagine I know

843
00:41:21,994 --> 00:41:24,194
Speaker 2: exactly husband and a house. And it was a video

844
00:41:24,394 --> 00:41:28,674
Speaker 2: of a woman throwing her boxes just into the garage. Again,

845
00:41:28,834 --> 00:41:31,393
Speaker 2: would be nice to have a garage cardboard box, just

846
00:41:31,434 --> 00:41:34,473
Speaker 2: cardboard boxes, so they will imagine like a cardboard box

847
00:41:34,514 --> 00:41:37,754
Speaker 2: that a package has come in, not folded down, not

848
00:41:37,834 --> 00:41:41,873
Speaker 2: broken down, just tossing it in slow motion into the

849
00:41:41,914 --> 00:41:45,834
Speaker 2: garage and believing in her heart that it is her

850
00:41:45,874 --> 00:41:49,114
Speaker 2: husband's job to fold them down and dispose of them. Now,

851
00:41:49,194 --> 00:41:53,274
Speaker 2: we don't love sexis stereotypes on this podcast. We're about equality,

852
00:41:53,474 --> 00:41:56,394
Speaker 2: we're about feminism. But I'm going to posit a theory

853
00:41:56,674 --> 00:42:00,274
Speaker 2: that this actually might be universal human instinct. We're all

854
00:42:00,314 --> 00:42:03,034
Speaker 2: feminists until there's a job we don't want to do,

855
00:42:03,834 --> 00:42:08,074
Speaker 2: in which case midnight is none of my business. Luca

856
00:42:08,114 --> 00:42:11,354
Speaker 2: has asked me why he puts the bins out, and

857
00:42:11,514 --> 00:42:15,954
Speaker 2: I have said I wouldn't know how. Again, again, would

858
00:42:15,994 --> 00:42:18,553
Speaker 2: be nice to have your own bins to take out.

859
00:42:19,194 --> 00:42:22,514
Speaker 2: We have shared bins. Who takes that? I don't know

860
00:42:22,794 --> 00:42:27,514
Speaker 2: a lovely man man, but you have to take your

861
00:42:27,594 --> 00:42:29,794
Speaker 2: rubbish from your house to put it correct?

862
00:42:29,834 --> 00:42:30,634
Speaker 1: Whose job is that?

863
00:42:30,954 --> 00:42:34,714
Speaker 2: I'm actually great with rubbish, And I have a lot

864
00:42:34,714 --> 00:42:36,114
Speaker 2: of thoughts. How do you know where to put it?

865
00:42:36,194 --> 00:42:36,993
Speaker 2: Are you joking? Wait?

866
00:42:37,234 --> 00:42:40,154
Speaker 1: I mean put it in the red top in or

867
00:42:40,154 --> 00:42:40,994
Speaker 1: the yellow top in.

868
00:42:41,474 --> 00:42:43,674
Speaker 2: But I have a lot of thoughts about this box

869
00:42:43,714 --> 00:42:48,154
Speaker 2: thing because hard can't relate. I'm the box breaker down

870
00:42:48,274 --> 00:42:51,994
Speaker 2: in our household. For a very important reason, my biggest

871
00:42:52,034 --> 00:42:56,314
Speaker 2: fear in life is getting in trouble, especially publicly, especially

872
00:42:56,314 --> 00:42:59,154
Speaker 2: by strangers. Yeah, Jesse, I got in trouble recently in public.

873
00:42:59,154 --> 00:43:00,873
Speaker 2: You were there? Yeah, I don't stop thinking about it.

874
00:43:01,114 --> 00:43:02,514
Speaker 1: Well, can we hear that story? Please?

875
00:43:02,634 --> 00:43:07,714
Speaker 2: Oh God? Okay, you know I've been I've been scared

876
00:43:07,714 --> 00:43:10,154
Speaker 2: to say it because I'm worried that anyone listening will

877
00:43:10,154 --> 00:43:11,674
Speaker 2: have been there and will be on the side of

878
00:43:11,714 --> 00:43:13,594
Speaker 2: the person who got me in trouble. But we're at

879
00:43:13,594 --> 00:43:16,114
Speaker 2: an mm MEMA concert and I was having a lovely

880
00:43:16,154 --> 00:43:19,594
Speaker 2: time with Matilda and we were dancing, but a lot

881
00:43:19,594 --> 00:43:21,674
Speaker 2: of people were sitting down and I stood up for

882
00:43:21,754 --> 00:43:24,434
Speaker 2: one song to dance. I think it was Jellyfish Blob.

883
00:43:24,834 --> 00:43:27,674
Speaker 2: Mantilda stood up and dance. It is her favorite and

884
00:43:27,754 --> 00:43:29,914
Speaker 2: a woman came up behind me and pat me on

885
00:43:29,954 --> 00:43:33,434
Speaker 2: the shoulder and said, there is a scene of children

886
00:43:33,834 --> 00:43:36,314
Speaker 2: who can't see you because you have been standing up

887
00:43:36,354 --> 00:43:39,394
Speaker 2: the entire time, which she hadn't. And it was also

888
00:43:39,594 --> 00:43:42,234
Speaker 2: a lot of people were standing up. The next song,

889
00:43:42,514 --> 00:43:45,074
Speaker 2: every man in the audience was man in the audience

890
00:43:45,154 --> 00:43:48,514
Speaker 2: was invited to stand up by Emma. Memma. Whichever dad

891
00:43:48,594 --> 00:43:51,794
Speaker 2: had the best dance won a five hundred dollars Bunnings voucher.

892
00:43:52,154 --> 00:43:53,994
Speaker 2: And I just took a video and I just sent

893
00:43:54,074 --> 00:43:55,954
Speaker 2: a message to Rory being like the dad's get a

894
00:43:55,994 --> 00:44:01,354
Speaker 2: Bunnings voucher, mum's getting yelled at. I'm still so mad, darling.

895
00:44:01,154 --> 00:44:04,834
Speaker 1: You're short. I've been blocking anybody's view for very long

896
00:44:04,874 --> 00:44:06,913
Speaker 1: and I was hunched. That's not fair.

897
00:44:07,234 --> 00:44:09,634
Speaker 2: Tilda wasn't blocking anyone's view anyway. I just can't stop

898
00:44:09,674 --> 00:44:12,754
Speaker 2: thinking about it. But it's my biggest fear getting in trouble.

899
00:44:12,874 --> 00:44:15,514
Speaker 2: So Rory and I both fast and loose people with

900
00:44:15,714 --> 00:44:18,514
Speaker 2: like we don't pay attention to detail to anything, And

901
00:44:18,554 --> 00:44:21,314
Speaker 2: so I know if he does the boxes, he will

902
00:44:21,394 --> 00:44:23,634
Speaker 2: just kind of shove him. That's how I do the boxing. Yes,

903
00:44:23,914 --> 00:44:25,794
Speaker 2: but I'm like, I don't want to get in trouble.

904
00:44:26,234 --> 00:44:29,954
Speaker 2: So I get all the sticky tape off because I'm like,

905
00:44:30,034 --> 00:44:31,634
Speaker 2: I don't want to get in trouble for not getting

906
00:44:31,634 --> 00:44:33,634
Speaker 2: the sticky tape and then ruining all the recycling. So

907
00:44:33,634 --> 00:44:35,234
Speaker 2: I get all the sticky tape off. But the most

908
00:44:35,274 --> 00:44:38,594
Speaker 2: important thing is in case I've made a mistake, I

909
00:44:38,634 --> 00:44:41,393
Speaker 2: remove the label that has our name yes, and I

910
00:44:41,434 --> 00:44:46,033
Speaker 2: don't identifying yes, because I'm like, what if somebody looked

911
00:44:46,034 --> 00:44:48,873
Speaker 2: at them? Oh, and I can see their names and

912
00:44:48,914 --> 00:44:50,594
Speaker 2: their address, and then they'll knock on our door and

913
00:44:50,634 --> 00:44:53,234
Speaker 2: say what's wrong with you? So I do it all

914
00:44:53,794 --> 00:44:57,914
Speaker 2: and then actually late at night, if our bin's full,

915
00:44:58,674 --> 00:45:00,354
Speaker 2: I go to the other bins on the street. Of

916
00:45:00,394 --> 00:45:02,074
Speaker 2: course you do, and put it in what we do,

917
00:45:02,234 --> 00:45:03,634
Speaker 2: which I also have a question.

918
00:45:03,794 --> 00:45:04,514
Speaker 1: That's not allowed?

919
00:45:04,954 --> 00:45:05,274
Speaker 2: Okay?

920
00:45:05,474 --> 00:45:05,873
Speaker 3: Yeah? Is it?

921
00:45:06,074 --> 00:45:08,754
Speaker 2: Like is it not a loud ethically or legally?

922
00:45:09,114 --> 00:45:11,354
Speaker 1: The best time, the best time that that is definitely

923
00:45:11,434 --> 00:45:14,754
Speaker 1: not allowed is around the Christmas period when everybody's bins full,

924
00:45:15,234 --> 00:45:18,553
Speaker 1: but you're looking all week to see who's bin looks

925
00:45:18,594 --> 00:45:20,554
Speaker 1: less full, who you can smuggle.

926
00:45:20,154 --> 00:45:24,473
Speaker 2: All your Surely it's allowed on midnight as all society,

927
00:45:24,554 --> 00:45:28,874
Speaker 2: What are we meant to do when the bins' problem.

928
00:45:29,994 --> 00:45:33,194
Speaker 1: I mean, I do sneak my stuff in other people's bins.

929
00:45:33,314 --> 00:45:35,714
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, but you know I live next door to

930
00:45:35,834 --> 00:45:38,073
Speaker 1: some lovely retired people. They don't make as much mess

931
00:45:38,074 --> 00:45:42,394
Speaker 1: as we do, so I need to distribute the mess. However,

932
00:45:42,514 --> 00:45:45,194
Speaker 1: and I appreciate your story, Claire, because I also don't

933
00:45:45,234 --> 00:45:49,194
Speaker 1: like getting in trouble. However, I hate breaking down boxes.

934
00:45:49,434 --> 00:45:51,074
Speaker 1: And the reason when I saw this video it made

935
00:45:51,074 --> 00:45:53,674
Speaker 1: me laugh out loud is because Brent will say all

936
00:45:53,714 --> 00:45:56,074
Speaker 1: the time, he'll go to the little recycling bit of

937
00:45:56,114 --> 00:45:58,034
Speaker 1: our bin what we have in the kitchen before we

938
00:45:58,074 --> 00:46:00,314
Speaker 1: take it out to the big bin, and he'll be like,

939
00:46:00,834 --> 00:46:02,554
Speaker 1: do you know that you're meant to break down the

940
00:46:02,594 --> 00:46:05,234
Speaker 1: boxes because I've just thrown it in there every time

941
00:46:06,634 --> 00:46:12,794
Speaker 1: it's in the whole thing Like no, I mean always like, yes,

942
00:46:12,874 --> 00:46:16,634
Speaker 1: you gotta break down the boxes, and I'm just like, oh,

943
00:46:17,474 --> 00:46:19,514
Speaker 1: out of the box. They're fun is over.

944
00:46:20,154 --> 00:46:22,393
Speaker 2: This is when you have to go brand show me

945
00:46:22,634 --> 00:46:24,794
Speaker 2: hand and then you have him show you and then

946
00:46:24,834 --> 00:46:26,474
Speaker 2: you make a big fuss about how good he is

947
00:46:26,514 --> 00:46:28,674
Speaker 2: and you say you're so handsome when you break down

948
00:46:28,674 --> 00:46:31,674
Speaker 2: the Yes, my favorite comment on this video was. I

949
00:46:31,714 --> 00:46:33,674
Speaker 2: asked my wife one time what she was doing with

950
00:46:33,714 --> 00:46:35,594
Speaker 2: all the boxes in the garage, because there was just

951
00:46:35,634 --> 00:46:38,314
Speaker 2: all these completely assembled boxes in the garage, and she

952
00:46:38,394 --> 00:46:40,274
Speaker 2: looked me dead in the face and said, they're ready

953
00:46:40,274 --> 00:46:44,354
Speaker 2: to go out whenever, which I think is exactly right. Well,

954
00:46:44,354 --> 00:46:46,154
Speaker 2: when are you're gonna break it down and put them

955
00:46:46,154 --> 00:46:48,234
Speaker 2: in them? So confused? I've done my bit exactly?

956
00:46:48,954 --> 00:46:49,314
Speaker 6: Is that?

957
00:46:49,394 --> 00:46:52,393
Speaker 1: The way this falls into like typical gender stereotypes is

958
00:46:52,434 --> 00:46:55,314
Speaker 1: people used to say, well, she does the cleaning because

959
00:46:55,354 --> 00:46:58,634
Speaker 1: she really likes it, yes, which is true for about

960
00:46:58,834 --> 00:47:02,433
Speaker 1: zero point one percent of the female population. She does

961
00:47:02,434 --> 00:47:05,514
Speaker 1: the fucking cleaning because she's expected to do the cleaning.

962
00:47:05,834 --> 00:47:08,114
Speaker 1: There must be some if we are playing along these

963
00:47:08,154 --> 00:47:10,473
Speaker 1: straight gender roles, there must be some men who love

964
00:47:10,554 --> 00:47:14,434
Speaker 1: breaking down my hair out in the garage, having the

965
00:47:14,474 --> 00:47:17,474
Speaker 1: time of their life breaking down those boxes. But most

966
00:47:17,554 --> 00:47:21,074
Speaker 1: people in general hate breaking down boxes. And if only

967
00:47:21,114 --> 00:47:25,033
Speaker 1: we could train the doc Bak children.

968
00:47:24,794 --> 00:47:28,473
Speaker 2: Or worst Job and Luca, I am convinced, has absolutely

969
00:47:28,514 --> 00:47:29,993
Speaker 2: no idea how to get a dinner in a cover.

970
00:47:30,874 --> 00:47:33,634
Speaker 2: That can be my job. I'm happy to do that,

971
00:47:33,714 --> 00:47:37,994
Speaker 2: but boxes none of my business. It's time for our

972
00:47:37,994 --> 00:47:41,274
Speaker 2: weekly recommendations from a new pair of pants, to a course,

973
00:47:41,554 --> 00:47:45,554
Speaker 2: to something that might just change your life.

974
00:47:49,554 --> 00:47:53,393
Speaker 1: Vibes, ideas, atmosphere, something actual, something fun.

975
00:47:53,954 --> 00:47:58,993
Speaker 2: This is my best recommendation. It's Friday, so we want

976
00:47:58,994 --> 00:48:02,394
Speaker 2: to help set you up with our very best recommendations.

977
00:48:02,474 --> 00:48:06,274
Speaker 2: And I'm a bit ashamed by mine today because I'm

978
00:48:06,314 --> 00:48:08,834
Speaker 2: on the recorders. I'm a little bit anti ai, a

979
00:48:08,874 --> 00:48:12,594
Speaker 2: bit of a light eye. I know there are environmentals.

980
00:48:12,754 --> 00:48:16,114
Speaker 2: I'm friction maxing all the rest of it. However, this

981
00:48:16,194 --> 00:48:20,393
Speaker 2: week I am moving house, and as previously discussed on

982
00:48:20,394 --> 00:48:21,594
Speaker 2: this podcast.

983
00:48:21,434 --> 00:48:24,194
Speaker 1: I had a lot of boxes to break down, a lot.

984
00:48:24,474 --> 00:48:26,834
Speaker 2: So true, that's why I can't be at home. Yeah

985
00:48:26,874 --> 00:48:30,194
Speaker 2: what do you do with those? Oh Facebook marketplaces?

986
00:48:30,354 --> 00:48:30,674
Speaker 1: Yeah?

987
00:48:30,954 --> 00:48:33,674
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you can pick them up. So I've previously

988
00:48:33,674 --> 00:48:36,634
Speaker 2: discussed this that I can't picture things in my head.

989
00:48:37,114 --> 00:48:39,754
Speaker 2: So when I look at a living room and I go, okay,

990
00:48:39,794 --> 00:48:42,274
Speaker 2: so we have our couch, and we have our coffee table,

991
00:48:42,314 --> 00:48:43,994
Speaker 2: and we have our blah. I mean, don't get me

992
00:48:44,034 --> 00:48:47,714
Speaker 2: started on dimensions, but actually picturing what it looks like,

993
00:48:47,754 --> 00:48:50,114
Speaker 2: I can't do it. So I've always been when I

994
00:48:50,194 --> 00:48:52,553
Speaker 2: move house, very into Pinterest. I like looking at things

995
00:48:52,554 --> 00:48:53,994
Speaker 2: that are kind of a similar setup, and I go,

996
00:48:54,074 --> 00:48:56,514
Speaker 2: what would look nice here? And it's all time consuming.

997
00:48:57,034 --> 00:48:59,714
Speaker 2: I get it wrong a lot. Claire and I remember

998
00:48:59,834 --> 00:49:01,393
Speaker 2: years ago we bought a couch that was too big

999
00:49:01,394 --> 00:49:04,634
Speaker 2: for the room. You buy something that you think looks lovely,

1000
00:49:04,994 --> 00:49:08,473
Speaker 2: and then you go, that's hideous screen couch in here

1001
00:49:08,554 --> 00:49:12,593
Speaker 2: doesn't look nice. I've been served ads for these AI

1002
00:49:12,754 --> 00:49:14,913
Speaker 2: tools that do it for you, and I just went

1003
00:49:15,154 --> 00:49:17,594
Speaker 2: screw it. I'm going to spend an afternoon teaching myself

1004
00:49:17,634 --> 00:49:19,953
Speaker 2: how to use this. So you're putting interior designers out

1005
00:49:19,954 --> 00:49:23,074
Speaker 2: of work, is what you're telling designer.

1006
00:49:23,434 --> 00:49:23,913
Speaker 1: I wasn't.

1007
00:49:23,954 --> 00:49:27,594
Speaker 2: I was just gonna make mistakes. So I used all

1008
00:49:27,634 --> 00:49:29,634
Speaker 2: of them to work out what was the absolute best,

1009
00:49:29,674 --> 00:49:32,033
Speaker 2: because there is a big difference between like the free

1010
00:49:32,074 --> 00:49:35,354
Speaker 2: models and the PAYE tell me what you tell them. Okay,

1011
00:49:35,434 --> 00:49:38,433
Speaker 2: So I take a photo of walked into this living room,

1012
00:49:38,434 --> 00:49:40,314
Speaker 2: which is just an interesting shape. Right. So I take

1013
00:49:40,314 --> 00:49:42,714
Speaker 2: a photo of the living room. I send it to

1014
00:49:42,714 --> 00:49:45,754
Speaker 2: my robot and I say, this is a living room.

1015
00:49:46,154 --> 00:49:52,274
Speaker 2: Oh it makes you describe your style like, yeah, exactly.

1016
00:49:52,354 --> 00:49:53,394
Speaker 1: I don't know what you said.

1017
00:49:53,754 --> 00:49:56,913
Speaker 2: I said, modern minimalist, Scandinavian.

1018
00:49:56,954 --> 00:50:00,194
Speaker 1: I don't know what because I always find that interesting

1019
00:50:00,234 --> 00:50:02,274
Speaker 1: when they asked that, because I tried to do this

1020
00:50:02,314 --> 00:50:04,314
Speaker 1: with a bathroom thing, because we're thinking about doing a

1021
00:50:04,354 --> 00:50:07,674
Speaker 1: bathroom that's the laundry turn into a bathroom. And it

1022
00:50:07,754 --> 00:50:11,194
Speaker 1: said what style, and I said beachy.

1023
00:50:12,274 --> 00:50:12,473
Speaker 6: Word.

1024
00:50:13,394 --> 00:50:18,194
Speaker 1: It was just like starfish fish everywhere. I'm like, no,

1025
00:50:18,394 --> 00:50:19,874
Speaker 1: I need to know the language anyway.

1026
00:50:19,954 --> 00:50:25,274
Speaker 2: Yeah, if I don't say minimalist, it has like eight throws.

1027
00:50:26,154 --> 00:50:28,074
Speaker 2: I don't like too much of my face. So I

1028
00:50:28,074 --> 00:50:30,554
Speaker 2: was like, okay, do this. It came up like its

1029
00:50:30,594 --> 00:50:33,514
Speaker 2: idea of where to put the couch in this room

1030
00:50:33,834 --> 00:50:36,154
Speaker 2: the way that it was able to because then I

1031
00:50:36,234 --> 00:50:38,554
Speaker 2: had to go shopping for a few things. It could

1032
00:50:38,554 --> 00:50:41,274
Speaker 2: calculate the dimensions, it could show me how it will

1033
00:50:41,594 --> 00:50:46,074
Speaker 2: look with this piece of furniture. It suggested a color

1034
00:50:46,154 --> 00:50:50,433
Speaker 2: of couch that I would never have imagined anyway. So

1035
00:50:50,554 --> 00:50:54,074
Speaker 2: I've used all of these tools. The best one that

1036
00:50:54,194 --> 00:50:58,114
Speaker 2: I have come across is actually chat GPT the paid version,

1037
00:50:58,634 --> 00:51:02,674
Speaker 2: and my friends is actually quite expensive. It's forty five

1038
00:51:02,714 --> 00:51:06,314
Speaker 2: dollars a month. It's forty five dollars a month, but

1039
00:51:06,554 --> 00:51:07,593
Speaker 2: and it's not I've've got.

1040
00:51:07,474 --> 00:51:09,154
Speaker 1: All my favorite sexy shows on it.

1041
00:51:09,314 --> 00:51:12,393
Speaker 2: No, it doesn't exactly. I was like, that is more

1042
00:51:12,434 --> 00:51:15,794
Speaker 2: than my Netflix. What you would do is you want

1043
00:51:15,834 --> 00:51:19,114
Speaker 2: to do your bathroom, just get it for a few weeks,

1044
00:51:20,194 --> 00:51:24,554
Speaker 2: do everything you need to do. It is unfortunately worth

1045
00:51:24,554 --> 00:51:28,234
Speaker 2: your freezing. Can you tax deducted? Well? I can because

1046
00:51:28,234 --> 00:51:32,114
Speaker 2: I just mentioned it on this show. Yeah, so I

1047
00:51:32,274 --> 00:51:36,954
Speaker 2: just mentioned it. Pulling back you say that sounds like

1048
00:51:36,994 --> 00:51:39,474
Speaker 2: a great idea, and Claire, you say, I'm about to download,

1049
00:51:39,514 --> 00:51:42,034
Speaker 2: and I think we're right. Okay, I think it has

1050
00:51:42,114 --> 00:51:43,953
Speaker 2: other exciting things. But it means that you can keep

1051
00:51:44,034 --> 00:51:47,194
Speaker 2: uploading images. And also I didn't realize this, but a

1052
00:51:47,234 --> 00:51:49,714
Speaker 2: lot of furniture shops now if you walk in and

1053
00:51:49,874 --> 00:51:52,154
Speaker 2: you look at a couch that you like, you can

1054
00:51:52,234 --> 00:51:55,913
Speaker 2: scan your room and it'll put the couch in there. Yeah.

1055
00:51:56,194 --> 00:51:58,314
Speaker 1: You know, I wonder if it ever negs you, because

1056
00:51:58,394 --> 00:51:59,714
Speaker 1: you know how I was talking about when I was

1057
00:51:59,794 --> 00:52:02,514
Speaker 1: using the robots about my protein and take and stuff,

1058
00:52:02,514 --> 00:52:04,554
Speaker 1: and sometimes it's like we haven't tried very hard.

1059
00:52:04,594 --> 00:52:04,874
Speaker 2: Today.

1060
00:52:05,594 --> 00:52:07,714
Speaker 1: One of my friends has been using chat to GBT

1061
00:52:07,874 --> 00:52:10,994
Speaker 1: for her house. Yeah, and she'll say to the robot, like,

1062
00:52:11,834 --> 00:52:13,834
Speaker 1: what would this look like with the green wall and

1063
00:52:13,834 --> 00:52:18,354
Speaker 1: the robot's like, are you sure it's yes, and then

1064
00:52:18,394 --> 00:52:20,393
Speaker 1: the robot gives her a green wall and then my

1065
00:52:20,394 --> 00:52:23,274
Speaker 1: friend egsit back and it's like, that looks awful if

1066
00:52:23,314 --> 00:52:24,954
Speaker 1: you've not got a better shade of green than that.

1067
00:52:25,154 --> 00:52:26,514
Speaker 1: And then the robot's like, fine.

1068
00:52:26,714 --> 00:52:29,834
Speaker 2: What's horrifying is how quickly you become quite mean to

1069
00:52:29,874 --> 00:52:31,994
Speaker 2: the robot. So I was using a free version for

1070
00:52:32,074 --> 00:52:34,873
Speaker 2: ages because I didn't want to pay, and I was like,

1071
00:52:35,114 --> 00:52:37,794
Speaker 2: please just move the couch back and ninch, move it, ninch,

1072
00:52:37,874 --> 00:52:39,433
Speaker 2: and it was like, I'm going to turn it into

1073
00:52:39,434 --> 00:52:42,433
Speaker 2: a curve, not an l shape. Just started hallucinating, yeah,

1074
00:52:42,474 --> 00:52:45,514
Speaker 2: and it started throwing coffee tables on the ceiling, and

1075
00:52:45,554 --> 00:52:46,913
Speaker 2: I was like, I've had it with you.

1076
00:52:47,194 --> 00:52:49,234
Speaker 1: Do we think how you talk to your robot is

1077
00:52:49,274 --> 00:52:50,674
Speaker 1: going to be one of the dating rules in the

1078
00:52:50,714 --> 00:52:52,674
Speaker 1: next round of them.

1079
00:52:52,674 --> 00:52:54,473
Speaker 2: That's not going to reflect well on me. I got

1080
00:52:54,594 --> 00:52:58,194
Speaker 2: very impatient. I started not using full sentences. Yeah, yeah,

1081
00:52:58,194 --> 00:53:00,634
Speaker 2: I like using it like a search engine. Yeah, and

1082
00:53:00,674 --> 00:53:05,513
Speaker 2: I doesn't appreciate it. Claire, what's your recommendation? My recommendation

1083
00:53:05,954 --> 00:53:09,314
Speaker 2: doesn't put real people work. I'd just like to say,

1084
00:53:09,714 --> 00:53:13,834
Speaker 2: so mine is the rider's studio. We have officially entered

1085
00:53:13,914 --> 00:53:18,114
Speaker 2: the Year of the fire Horse, and the out Louders

1086
00:53:18,154 --> 00:53:21,514
Speaker 2: are a creative bunch. So if you've ever wanted to

1087
00:53:21,514 --> 00:53:24,434
Speaker 2: write a novel, or a screenplay or a short story,

1088
00:53:25,114 --> 00:53:28,513
Speaker 2: I have this reco because I get messages from people

1089
00:53:28,514 --> 00:53:30,234
Speaker 2: all the time because I must have written about on

1090
00:53:30,234 --> 00:53:32,514
Speaker 2: substack or something that I use this course, and so

1091
00:53:32,514 --> 00:53:34,274
Speaker 2: people messed me all the times. I thought, I'm just

1092
00:53:34,314 --> 00:53:37,354
Speaker 2: gonna say what it is. So it's called The Rider's

1093
00:53:37,394 --> 00:53:40,194
Speaker 2: Studio and it's based in Sydney. But all the courses

1094
00:53:40,314 --> 00:53:43,594
Speaker 2: I've done have been online, and I've done three of them.

1095
00:53:43,954 --> 00:53:46,994
Speaker 2: I've done an Unlocking Creativity course, which I would recommend

1096
00:53:47,034 --> 00:53:50,034
Speaker 2: to anyone no matter what industry you work in. It

1097
00:53:50,114 --> 00:53:53,434
Speaker 2: just makes you a better writer. I've done the short

1098
00:53:53,514 --> 00:53:56,953
Speaker 2: Story Genre course, and it teaches you how to write

1099
00:53:56,994 --> 00:53:59,154
Speaker 2: in genres you might not be familiar with. So I've

1100
00:53:59,194 --> 00:54:03,114
Speaker 2: written a fantasy story, the wor I've ever read. Then.

1101
00:54:03,474 --> 00:54:07,473
Speaker 2: I have done the novel first Draft course and stick

1102
00:54:07,474 --> 00:54:10,154
Speaker 2: to it perfectly because I already had written most of

1103
00:54:10,154 --> 00:54:13,634
Speaker 2: my manuscript by then, but some of the tools and

1104
00:54:13,674 --> 00:54:16,513
Speaker 2: strategies it holds your hand as you write a whole

1105
00:54:16,554 --> 00:54:17,994
Speaker 2: If you're like, I want to write a novel, but

1106
00:54:17,994 --> 00:54:20,674
Speaker 2: I don't have the discipline. This will get you your

1107
00:54:20,714 --> 00:54:22,913
Speaker 2: eighty thousand one week by week, it takes you, and

1108
00:54:22,954 --> 00:54:23,634
Speaker 2: you're with a group.

1109
00:54:23,954 --> 00:54:25,953
Speaker 1: And so that's my word.

1110
00:54:26,154 --> 00:54:29,714
Speaker 2: But it's like anonymous, like because it's online, you don't

1111
00:54:29,754 --> 00:54:32,393
Speaker 2: know who any of the other people are. It's so

1112
00:54:33,274 --> 00:54:35,994
Speaker 2: fascinating because you look at other people's writing and you

1113
00:54:36,114 --> 00:54:41,554
Speaker 2: think there is a nuggative gold in everything somebody writes,

1114
00:54:41,594 --> 00:54:44,234
Speaker 2: like and you see it get stronger, like something like

1115
00:54:44,274 --> 00:54:46,714
Speaker 2: writing a screenplay. I would think I don't know where

1116
00:54:46,754 --> 00:54:49,954
Speaker 2: to start. I don't know the structure. And this literally,

1117
00:54:50,034 --> 00:54:53,754
Speaker 2: week by week you've got a tutor. It's bloody incredible. Also,

1118
00:54:53,874 --> 00:54:55,474
Speaker 2: I was going to say that, depending on what you

1119
00:54:55,514 --> 00:54:58,434
Speaker 2: do for work, your workplace might cover it as professional

1120
00:54:58,434 --> 00:55:01,354
Speaker 2: development or it might be a tax deduction. But I

1121
00:55:01,394 --> 00:55:04,194
Speaker 2: just think out louders there are so many great ideas

1122
00:55:04,314 --> 00:55:07,913
Speaker 2: and so many creatives in this community that if it's

1123
00:55:07,914 --> 00:55:09,474
Speaker 2: one of those things you've always wanted to do, we

1124
00:55:09,554 --> 00:55:11,593
Speaker 2: got a year of the horse says I gotta stop

1125
00:55:11,594 --> 00:55:12,674
Speaker 2: thinking and we just do it.

1126
00:55:12,754 --> 00:55:16,554
Speaker 1: Yes, So that writing courses always frightened me because you

1127
00:55:16,594 --> 00:55:19,554
Speaker 1: have to share even though I've written books, I'm like,

1128
00:55:19,994 --> 00:55:21,674
Speaker 1: I can't show people.

1129
00:55:21,554 --> 00:55:24,274
Speaker 2: And it's real, it's a real early draft. And then

1130
00:55:24,314 --> 00:55:27,154
Speaker 2: someone criticizes you and like who even are you?

1131
00:55:27,354 --> 00:55:28,794
Speaker 1: And then you read their things like, oh damn it,

1132
00:55:28,834 --> 00:55:33,074
Speaker 1: that's really good. Yeah, anyway, great record, Claire. I'm recommending

1133
00:55:33,074 --> 00:55:37,194
Speaker 1: something much more basic, a pair of pants, so I

1134
00:55:36,474 --> 00:55:39,194
Speaker 1: need I'm in that phase again. I get in it

1135
00:55:39,234 --> 00:55:41,033
Speaker 1: all the time where I have no idea what to wear.

1136
00:55:41,794 --> 00:55:43,954
Speaker 1: Maybe this is about the shedding the year of the Snake,

1137
00:55:44,034 --> 00:55:45,834
Speaker 1: but you know, I'm like, I always wear jeans. I've

1138
00:55:45,874 --> 00:55:47,594
Speaker 1: been wearing jeans for years. I love my jeans, my

1139
00:55:47,674 --> 00:55:50,234
Speaker 1: cream of jeans, my flairy jeans, blah blah. But I'm

1140
00:55:50,234 --> 00:55:53,554
Speaker 1: beginning to go really like we you can't change it up,

1141
00:55:53,594 --> 00:55:55,393
Speaker 1: but I don't know what to wear. And then I

1142
00:55:55,394 --> 00:55:58,594
Speaker 1: saw in a newsletter from an old friend of mine,

1143
00:55:58,634 --> 00:56:01,234
Speaker 1: actually from Joe Elvin. She's a magazine person and an Australian

1144
00:56:01,234 --> 00:56:04,154
Speaker 1: magazine person who lives in London. But in her newsletter

1145
00:56:04,194 --> 00:56:06,194
Speaker 1: recently she said, this is the best pair of pants

1146
00:56:06,194 --> 00:56:09,074
Speaker 1: that ever existed. I was like, okay, and they're from

1147
00:56:09,154 --> 00:56:12,234
Speaker 1: Uniclo and they only cost sixty dollars. Get in so

1148
00:56:12,914 --> 00:56:16,674
Speaker 1: Mia is gonna laugh so hard because they're barrel legs,

1149
00:56:17,514 --> 00:56:21,474
Speaker 1: and she was wearing the barrel leg jeans and trousers

1150
00:56:21,474 --> 00:56:24,274
Speaker 1: were cool like two years ago, I think, And now

1151
00:56:24,354 --> 00:56:28,754
Speaker 1: the normies like me who do not understand them are

1152
00:56:28,754 --> 00:56:31,993
Speaker 1: getting onto these like pared down versions of the barrel leg.

1153
00:56:32,194 --> 00:56:34,554
Speaker 1: But I don't care. I'm not cool, I'm not pretending

1154
00:56:34,594 --> 00:56:34,754
Speaker 1: to be.

1155
00:56:34,794 --> 00:56:36,714
Speaker 2: So what's the widest point on a barrel leg?

1156
00:56:36,834 --> 00:56:39,274
Speaker 1: So it's sort of very flattering.

1157
00:56:39,674 --> 00:56:44,034
Speaker 2: Midfie went great, it goes down.

1158
00:56:44,594 --> 00:56:47,393
Speaker 1: But these are for reasons I don't understand. I mean,

1159
00:56:47,434 --> 00:56:49,394
Speaker 1: maybe they're not. I don't know. No one told me differently.

1160
00:56:49,834 --> 00:56:53,554
Speaker 1: They are comfortable and flattering, flattering that word we're not

1161
00:56:53,634 --> 00:56:56,434
Speaker 1: supposed to use anymore. They're their flattering, then they're probably

1162
00:56:56,474 --> 00:56:58,593
Speaker 1: not at all flattering, but the point being you feel

1163
00:56:58,594 --> 00:57:02,034
Speaker 1: good in them. So I bought a pair in chocolate brown,

1164
00:57:02,474 --> 00:57:04,393
Speaker 1: which is a tricky color because there aren't that many

1165
00:57:04,394 --> 00:57:06,114
Speaker 1: colors I feel like I'm wedding with. But they also

1166
00:57:06,154 --> 00:57:09,594
Speaker 1: do them in dark gray black cream, like a beige color.

1167
00:57:10,194 --> 00:57:12,953
Speaker 1: And the thing that's good about them is they are

1168
00:57:13,274 --> 00:57:16,554
Speaker 1: barrel leg but they're not like really barrel So what

1169
00:57:16,594 --> 00:57:18,314
Speaker 1: they do is they give you just a hint of

1170
00:57:18,474 --> 00:57:21,074
Speaker 1: I look a little bit cooler than I did yesterday

1171
00:57:21,114 --> 00:57:22,594
Speaker 1: when I was wearing my tracky pants.

1172
00:57:22,634 --> 00:57:25,714
Speaker 2: I need to know about the waist is it?

1173
00:57:25,714 --> 00:57:29,834
Speaker 1: It's not a lastic, it's quite high wasted, okay. And

1174
00:57:30,114 --> 00:57:33,674
Speaker 1: the thing I like about Uniclo is that they do

1175
00:57:33,714 --> 00:57:37,474
Speaker 1: short legs because of us being short people. Whenever I

1176
00:57:37,514 --> 00:57:39,074
Speaker 1: buy pants, I often think, well, I'm gonna have to

1177
00:57:39,074 --> 00:57:41,314
Speaker 1: get them taken up and that might never happen, and

1178
00:57:41,354 --> 00:57:44,434
Speaker 1: then I've just wasted money. And so these ones are

1179
00:57:44,474 --> 00:57:46,674
Speaker 1: cut quite short and you can choose a different size

1180
00:57:46,754 --> 00:57:49,394
Speaker 1: length and lots of uniclothes pants. So anyway, I bought

1181
00:57:49,394 --> 00:57:51,674
Speaker 1: them a brown. I really like them, and so now

1182
00:57:51,714 --> 00:57:54,874
Speaker 1: I've also bought them in the cream because I think

1183
00:57:54,914 --> 00:57:59,114
Speaker 1: maybe they're my like pathway to like just changing the

1184
00:57:59,154 --> 00:58:00,834
Speaker 1: style up a tiny bit. So we'll put a link

1185
00:58:00,914 --> 00:58:02,994
Speaker 1: in the show notes, as we will with all our echos.

1186
00:58:03,154 --> 00:58:03,554
Speaker 2: Love it.

1187
00:58:04,594 --> 00:58:06,794
Speaker 1: That is all we have time for this Friday and

1188
00:58:06,834 --> 00:58:09,394
Speaker 1: this week out Louders, thank you so much for being

1189
00:58:09,434 --> 00:58:14,154
Speaker 1: here listening to the number one podcast in all of Australia. Gosh,

1190
00:58:14,154 --> 00:58:15,234
Speaker 1: you have excellent taste.

1191
00:58:15,954 --> 00:58:16,554
Speaker 4: Thank you to you.

1192
00:58:16,674 --> 00:58:19,714
Speaker 1: Chleas Stevens for filling in for em VERNA thank you

1193
00:58:19,834 --> 00:58:20,194
Speaker 1: and a.

1194
00:58:20,114 --> 00:58:23,874
Speaker 2: Big thank you to our team group executive producer Ruth Devine,

1195
00:58:23,994 --> 00:58:28,474
Speaker 2: executive producer Sashatanic, our senior audio producer is Leah Porgies,

1196
00:58:28,714 --> 00:58:32,314
Speaker 2: video producer Josh Green, and our junior content producer is

1197
00:58:32,434 --> 00:58:42,554
Speaker 2: Tessa Kodovich. Bye Bye, Mumma acknowledges the traditional owners of

1198
00:58:42,594 --> 00:58:44,954
Speaker 2: the land on which we have recorded this podcast.