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Speaker 1: You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast. Mamma Mia acknowledges

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Speaker 1: the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast

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Speaker 1: is recorded on Hi. I'm Claire Murphy. This is Mumma

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Speaker 1: MIA's daily news podcast, The Quikie. Recently, Mummy published an

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Speaker 1: article on site which you can read if you want to.

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Speaker 1: The link is in our show notes. It came from

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Speaker 1: an anonymous writer who admitted that she's had to split

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Speaker 1: her family into her children's father living in a separate house,

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Speaker 1: not because of their relationship struggles, but because they have

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Speaker 1: to protect their young daughter from their oldest son. He's autistic,

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Speaker 1: and despite loving his little sister desperately, he can't stop

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Speaker 1: himself from hurting her. Today we speak to the parents

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Speaker 1: of autistic ASIE kids to find out what they want

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Speaker 1: the country to note about the lives of their children

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Speaker 1: and the measures they have to go to just to

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Speaker 1: get through a day. But before we do that, here's

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Speaker 1: the letters from the Cookie Newsroom. Monday, September ninth, The

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Speaker 1: Labor government has announced they willing include questions about both

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Speaker 1: sexual orientation and gender in the twenty twenty sixth census

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Speaker 1: as they try to recover from the fallout of first

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Speaker 1: excluding them. Treasurer Jim Chalmers confirmed the question's inclusion on

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Speaker 1: the weekend. The Australian Bureau of Statistics yet to reveal

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Speaker 1: exactly how they'll read, but that the census will now

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Speaker 1: include a whole new topic that will allow for multiple

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Speaker 1: questions covering both sexual orientation and gender. After the Labor

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Speaker 1: Government previously said this wouldn't happen as they didn't want

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Speaker 1: it to cause division across the Australian community, Chalmers told

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Speaker 1: the ABC that they had good intentions and have now

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Speaker 1: listened to the community and worked with the ABS to

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Speaker 1: find the best way through. The man who was at

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Speaker 1: the wheel of a bus that crashed in the New

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Speaker 1: South Wales Hunter Valley, killing ten wedding guests and injuring

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Speaker 1: dozens more, will face a three day court hearing to

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Speaker 1: decide his sentence this week. Brett Button admitted to taking

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Speaker 1: a large amount of painkillers before driving the guests home

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Speaker 1: after a night of celebration. The fifty nine year old

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Speaker 1: losing control of the vehicle on a roundabout, causing the

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Speaker 1: bus to tip on its side and slide. Sick analysis

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Speaker 1: suggests he took four hundred milligrams of the opioid tramadol,

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Speaker 1: which side effects include drowsiness, mental clouding, and visual function deficiencies.

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Speaker 1: Button told passengers who asked him to slow down that

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Speaker 1: if they liked that last corner, they were going to

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Speaker 1: like this one, saying he was trying to create a

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Speaker 1: party atmosphere on the drive home. The hearing will likely

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Speaker 1: here victim impacts statements from the family members of those killed.

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Speaker 1: Button pleaded guilty to all counts and has been held

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Speaker 1: in the Shortland Correctional Center at Cesnock. The mother of

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Speaker 1: a fourteen year old boy who allegedly killed two teachers

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Speaker 1: and two students at his school in the US state

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Speaker 1: of Georgia called and warned them before it happened. Annie

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Speaker 1: Brown told The Washington Post that her sister, the shooter's mother,

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Speaker 1: texted her to say that she'd spoken with the school counselor,

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Speaker 1: urging them to immediately find her son and check on

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Speaker 1: him after he sent her a message saying sorry. Her

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Speaker 1: call log show she called them around thirty minutes before

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Speaker 1: the shooting. The fourteen year old has been charged with

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Speaker 1: murder alongside his father, who's also been charged with second

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Speaker 1: degree murder providing his son with a semi automatic ar

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Speaker 1: style rifle. He performed as a guest artist in twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty two alongside Doctor Dre, Snoop Dogg, Mary J. Blige,

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Speaker 1: Fifty Cent and M and M. But now Kendrick Lamar

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Speaker 1: will be headlining his own Super Bowl halftime show. The

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Speaker 1: Rapper has been announced as the halftime entertainment for the

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Speaker 1: February twenty twenty five show. Lamar releasing a statement saying

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Speaker 1: rap music is still the most impactful genre to date,

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Speaker 1: saying he'll be there to remind the world why. The

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Speaker 1: halftime show will be held on February nine at Caesars

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Speaker 1: Superdome in New Orleans. The Pulse on Paris as this

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Speaker 1: episode of the Quickie is published. The Paralympics closing ceremony

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Speaker 1: is underway in Paris, with triathlon and cycling gold medalist

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Speaker 1: Lauren Parker and Athletic Jewel gold medalist James Turner carrying

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Speaker 1: the Australian flag into the Star de France. Ozzie T

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Speaker 1: fifty four marathon silver medalist Madison de Rosario has revealed

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Speaker 1: that while she was holding the flag in the opening

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Speaker 1: ceremony of the Paralympics, her father passed She also won

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Speaker 1: bronze in the five thousand meter events, admitting it has

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Speaker 1: been a challenging time for her, but also something that

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Speaker 1: gave her perspective, saying she's so much happier with silver.

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Speaker 1: Australia finished ninth on the medal tally with eighteen gold,

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Speaker 1: seventeen silver and twenty eight bronze. That's what's happening around

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Speaker 1: the world today. Next, we ask parents of autistic kids

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Speaker 1: what they want us to know. The ABC's new TV show,

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Speaker 1: The Assembly is showing the world just how the minds

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Speaker 1: of autistic ossies work. The questions the group post to

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Speaker 1: some of the country's most high profile individuals like the

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Speaker 1: Prime Minister, actors, comedians and radio hosts are insightful, interesting,

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Speaker 1: and sometimes delving into unexpectedly emotional territory.

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Speaker 2: What is the best lesson you learned from your parents?

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Speaker 3: Oh? I don't know why. The questions moved me so much.

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Speaker 4: Do you love your husband?

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Speaker 1: Oh?

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Speaker 4: That is a beautiful question. I think I feel like

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Speaker 4: I'm going to cry because my husband's going through some

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Speaker 4: stuff at the moment. My husband has Parkinson's disease and

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Speaker 4: we'd be married thirty four years and life is changing

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Speaker 4: around US.

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Speaker 1: The program aims to show how autistic Australians who've had

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Speaker 1: very little voice in the country's media landscape, can be

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Speaker 1: an integral part of the Australian conversation. But it also

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Speaker 1: makes it clear just how little some of us may

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Speaker 1: know about neurodiversity. But it also makes it clear just

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Speaker 1: how little some of us may know about neurodiversity. When

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Speaker 1: Mummamya published a story recently from a writer who chose

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Speaker 1: to remain anonymous about how she's had to move her

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Speaker 1: children into separate houses due to the aggression her autistic

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Speaker 1: son shows towards her younger daughter, something that is breaking

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Speaker 1: her heart and also draining her findinancially and emotionally, but

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Speaker 1: as necessary for the whole family's well being. The response

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Speaker 1: was overwhelming. People were relieved to hear truths being shared,

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Speaker 1: feeling they've had to stay quiet about the toughest parts

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Speaker 1: of parenting neurodiverse children. Autism rates in Australian children are

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Speaker 1: currently the highest in the world. In fact, diagnosis rates

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Speaker 1: arising in many developed nations, but experts attribute the spike

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Speaker 1: in Australia's numbers to the financial support given by the

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Speaker 1: NDIS or national disability insurance scheme giving parents and adults

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Speaker 1: the opportunity to even get a diagnosis where they otherwise

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Speaker 1: wouldn't have been able to afford to and the experiences

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Speaker 1: of those parents and children, while incredibly diverse and as

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Speaker 1: wide as the spectrum itself, they also share many similarities.

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Speaker 1: So we asked you to share the things that you

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Speaker 1: want people to know as a parent of a neurodivergent child,

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Speaker 1: some who are also neurodivergent themselves. Elvira is the mum

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Speaker 1: of two autistic teens and wants everyone to know the

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Speaker 1: support crew that they've had over the years have been invaluable.

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Speaker 5: Firstly, I wanted to share how fabulous their early childhood

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Speaker 5: educators were in shaping their emotional and social capacities. They're

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Speaker 5: both currently in high school and all their teachers are

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Speaker 5: exceptional in supporting them. So shout out all the fabulous educators.

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Speaker 1: That's something that Gabby, the mum of a young autistic

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Speaker 1: son and whose neurodivergent herself, says has been a game

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Speaker 1: changer for them to I.

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Speaker 6: Am incredibly grateful for our NDIS with the tens of

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Speaker 6: thousands of dollars we get with that enables him to

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Speaker 6: have therapies because without his speech pathologist, he would not

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Speaker 6: be able to communicate as well as he is, And

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Speaker 6: without his psychologist, I wouldn't be able to have the

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Speaker 6: strategies that I have to help and support him and

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Speaker 6: to try and regulate his behavior and emotions, to help

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Speaker 6: him with his fine motor skills and his gross motor skills.

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Speaker 6: And for all of the times that I've cried on

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Speaker 6: their shoulders.

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Speaker 1: Many of the parents we spoke to said, there's one

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Speaker 1: thing that gets said to them all the time, and

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Speaker 1: it needs to stop. That's saying that their children don't

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Speaker 1: seem or look autistic. Elvirus says sometimes family members will

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Speaker 1: even push back on the diagnosis.

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Speaker 5: Stop telling people they're autistic because they're just normal kids.

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Speaker 5: There are so many microaggressions and judgments that are subtle

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Speaker 5: but hurtful, and sometimes I do spend my days depressed

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Speaker 5: by the commentary, and it's especially hurtful when it comes

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Speaker 5: from people I love.

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Speaker 1: Sally says this is something her teenage daughter gets to

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Speaker 1: people playing down the serious challenges she faces.

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Speaker 7: She would like people to not say to her, I

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Speaker 7: think everyone is a bit autistic, or you're just quirky,

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Speaker 7: and you have funny or different personality traits. This really

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Speaker 7: does upset my teenage daughter because she has struggled her

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Speaker 7: whole life, and it does discount that her challenges might

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Speaker 7: just be something that she should get over and cope

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Speaker 7: with because everyone else seems to be able to.

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Speaker 1: Gabby says, the denial of children being autistic weighs heavy

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Speaker 1: on parents who are dealing with it every day.

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Speaker 8: When well meaning people say that my son doesn't look

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Speaker 8: or seem autistic, that's very hard for me to hear

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Speaker 8: because they don't see the everyday struggles that he goes through,

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Speaker 8: and the anxiety and separation anxiety he has every day,

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Speaker 8: or the overwhelm he feels walking into a shopping center,

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Speaker 8: whether he becomes extremely hyperactive and unmanageable with his behavior

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Speaker 8: or internalizers and can't handle the noise and the lights

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Speaker 8: and all of the people.

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Speaker 1: We heard from parents who told us that equality and

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Speaker 1: equity aren't the same thing. That inviting someone with a

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Speaker 1: disability to an event doesn't mean it's equal. You have

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Speaker 1: to also ask whether that event is autism friendly, safe,

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Speaker 1: and whether they have the choice to refuse that invitation

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Speaker 1: at all. Allison pleaded with us not to tell her

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Speaker 1: to better discipline her child, calling for us to instead

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Speaker 1: understand that they see the world differently and we're all different,

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Speaker 1: which is okay. Kylie called out that there are many

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Speaker 1: subgroups of the autism spectrum, like PDA, a nervous system disability,

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Speaker 1: which requires her to parent very differently, and then it

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Speaker 1: can be really hard to explain to anyone not in

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Speaker 1: the middle of it all. Charlotte wanted us to know

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Speaker 1: that when parents of neurodivergent children reach out and say

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Speaker 1: they can't handle their own child's behavior or aggression, it's

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Speaker 1: not helpful to tell them that their child acts like

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Speaker 1: an angel in other settings. She says, please believe them

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Speaker 1: when they say they act differently at home. Tamara said

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Speaker 1: she wants Australia to understand what Kara burnout looks like

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Speaker 1: for parents of neurodivergent children. Something Simone, the mum of

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Speaker 1: a ten year old autistic boy, who she says is

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Speaker 1: the center of her whole world and someone she'd much

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Speaker 1: rather spend time within anyone else understands. She says she

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Speaker 1: wishes people knew that she isn't just his mum, she

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Speaker 1: is his care too.

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Speaker 9: I find that a lot of people, and often it's

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Speaker 9: women that I'm speaking to, but I find that women

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Speaker 9: get quite uncomfortable with my definition of what I do

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Speaker 9: for my son in my caring capacity, because there's quite

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Speaker 9: a line that is more like, well, but you're his mother,

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Speaker 9: of course, you're his care Yes, you do anything for him,

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Speaker 9: and all of those things are one hundred and ten

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Speaker 9: percent true, But there are fundamental differences between parenting a

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Speaker 9: ten year old neurodivergent child and parenting a ten year

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Speaker 9: old neurotypical child.

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Speaker 1: Some mine says and morning routine is like everyone else

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Speaker 1: is like completely hectic, but that they have some unique

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Speaker 1: challenges to face. On top of that.

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Speaker 9: The physicality of my job as his mum and Carara

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Speaker 9: is something that I think people take for granted. Like

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Speaker 9: when I say I've got a bad back, I really

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Speaker 9: have a bad back. He's a tall boy and a

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Speaker 9: strong boy, and it can't toilet without my assistance, and

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Speaker 9: that's a lot of holding him up, that's a lot

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Speaker 9: of wiping for him, that's a lot of negotiating if

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Speaker 9: we're somewhere where he does have to go to the toilet,

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Speaker 9: but he can't cope with the smell, or trying on

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Speaker 9: five pairs of socks to get the right socks, even

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Speaker 9: though I sauce the seam free socks. It's what seam

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Speaker 9: free socks are going to work on that particular day,

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Speaker 9: and it's those things that are just taxing on a

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Speaker 9: daily basis.

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Speaker 1: Some parents told us that their kids crave social interaction,

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Speaker 1: but at the same time find it really hard to connect.

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Speaker 1: Some revealed their children get bullied at school. Sally says

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Speaker 1: her daughter struggles to make people understand that sometimes when

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Speaker 1: she's talking, she doesn't realize she's being a bit too

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Speaker 1: much of a straight shooter.

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Speaker 7: Her straight talking can come across as rude or blunt,

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Speaker 7: and it has cost her friendships in the past. I've

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Speaker 7: tried to explain to other parents that when she does

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Speaker 7: say no to play opportunities or certain activities that she

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Speaker 7: doesn't want to do, doesn't mean that she's rude. She's

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Speaker 7: just cutting to the chase and giving them a straight

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Speaker 7: laced answer.

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Speaker 1: Emily is a neurodivergent mum who's also parenting a neurodivergent son.

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Speaker 1: She teaches autistic children and runs a company called A

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Speaker 1: Firm with Me, which helps educate people about neurodiversity, Emily,

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Speaker 1: what was it like for you growing up compared to

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Speaker 1: what you see your son facing now? Is it very

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Speaker 1: different now?

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Speaker 3: You think? I think it's very very different.

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Speaker 2: I am diagnosed as a neurodivergent late, you know, as

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Speaker 2: an adult, whereas with my son in particular, you know,

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Speaker 2: we knew from a very very early age. So I

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Speaker 2: think I came into it with a lot more education,

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Speaker 2: and we know a lot more these days compared to

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Speaker 2: you know, what my parents knew and what their generation knew.

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Speaker 2: But I'd also say that, you know, we often say

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Speaker 2: if you've met one, you're a divergent person. You've met one,

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Speaker 2: you're a divergent person.

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Speaker 3: So you know, the.

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Speaker 2: Experiences are so varied we really can't pigeonhole them into

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Speaker 2: one particular box.

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Speaker 1: Now you teach children with autism, what's that like? Because

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Speaker 1: I mean, I know that there are some parents who

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Speaker 1: would prefer their children, whether they're neurodiversent or not, or

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Speaker 1: have physical disabilities, would like them to be in mainstream

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Speaker 1: schools because you know, that's what the world looks like.

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Speaker 1: We can't pigeonhole everyone away depending on what their mental

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Speaker 1: health is or their physical health. Is, for example, what

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Speaker 1: is it like to teach children with autism and how

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Speaker 1: do you feel about the debate about whether they should

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Speaker 1: be taught differently or whether they should be involved in

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Speaker 1: mainstream school I.

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Speaker 2: Love, absolutely love teaching children who are autistic, and I

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Speaker 2: do work within a mainstream school, so I'm primarily working

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Speaker 2: in small groups, which is a very different experience to

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Speaker 2: working within the classroom, which I also have done previously.

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Speaker 2: But I think, you know, as a whole, teachers are

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Speaker 2: doing their absolute best to you know, teach a varied

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Speaker 2: cohort of students. But really there's that systemic issue of

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Speaker 2: there not being enough support within schools, and you know,

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Speaker 2: that's not at a school level, that's really at you know,

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Speaker 2: goes beyond that at a government level. So while we

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Speaker 2: know what needs to be happening, and personally I want

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Speaker 2: to be able to do everything I can to teach

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Speaker 2: the autistic children that I am teaching in the way

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Speaker 2: that works for them, it can be really difficult because

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Speaker 2: of resourcing and because of people power. So while I

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Speaker 2: don't believe that we, you know, we should be segregating

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Speaker 2: our children into groups, I think it really comes down

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Speaker 2: to that whole overarching support for all students and being

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Speaker 2: able to tailor that because of the resources that we

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Speaker 2: have Emily, I think.

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Speaker 1: What a lot of people struggle with who aren't neurodiverted themselves,

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Speaker 1: or who maybe don't have someone in their sphere that

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Speaker 1: they know well enough is how to talk about it

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Speaker 1: and even the right language to use when discussed. Do

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Speaker 1: I say someone with autism or do I say they're autistic?

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Speaker 1: Like how important is the language around how we discuss

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Speaker 1: these things.

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Speaker 2: That's a really great question, and the autistic community has

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Speaker 2: really tried to reframe that idea of how we speak

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Speaker 2: about us because we believe that being autistic is part

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Speaker 2: of our identity. We're trying to really encourage that identity

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Speaker 2: first language. Now, obviously there's always going to be people

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Speaker 2: that prefer a different type of language, and you can

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Speaker 2: speak to them about that, but as a whole, we

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Speaker 2: want to be saying the child is autistic, not they

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Speaker 2: have autism. And when we say that they have autism,

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Speaker 2: it implies that there's something wrong or you know, they

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Speaker 2: have a condition. But we really want to reframe that

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Speaker 2: to be thinking about it. It's just a different programming

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Speaker 2: system and that idea of what society believes being autistic

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Speaker 2: is like is actually completely different to reality.

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Speaker 1: There's been lots of common threads in the conversations that

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Speaker 1: we've had with parents of autistic children and across a

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Speaker 1: neurodivergent But do you think there's something that you personally

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Speaker 1: would like people to know across Australia about autistic people,

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Speaker 1: about autistic children that you think maybe they don't understand.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean where to start.

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Speaker 2: There's so many things, but I think the overaarching message

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Speaker 2: that I want to get out there is what we

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Speaker 2: view in the media when we see somebody who is

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Speaker 2: autistic is.

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Speaker 3: Not really the reality. And going back.

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Speaker 2: To what I said before, you know, we talk about

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Speaker 2: being autistic. There's a spectrum, but it's not a linear spectrum.

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Speaker 2: It's not from less autistic to most autistic, and really

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Speaker 2: it's more like a piagraph where we have our strengths

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Speaker 2: and then we have our difficulties. It also doesn't correlate

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Speaker 2: at all with our intelligence level or our ability to

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Speaker 2: know participate in life. Everybody is going to have a

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Speaker 2: different experience, just like a neurotypical experience. So I think

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Speaker 2: really breaking down that idea of what it means to

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Speaker 2: be autistic is so import We have such a varied

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Speaker 2: experience across humanity. You know, myself, I'm married, I've got

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Speaker 2: two children, I'm working, and that's my experience and that

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Speaker 2: might be very, very different to somebody else's experience. But

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Speaker 2: often when I tell people that I am autistic, they

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Speaker 2: are quite shocked and think, oh, but you're married or that.

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Speaker 2: But you're you know, you're thriving, or you have children,

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Speaker 2: and you know, I think it's that real idea of Again,

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Speaker 2: what we see in the media is not accurate to

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Speaker 2: know our lived experience.

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Speaker 1: I'd love to get your take on how you feel

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Speaker 1: when people say that they're neurodivergence, or someone who's not

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Speaker 1: neurodivergence says it's about someone who is is that it's

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Speaker 1: their superpower, whether it's autism or ADHD or whatever it

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Speaker 1: might be. How do you feel about that take, because

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Speaker 1: I know there are some people who feel like it's condescending,

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Speaker 1: and then there are others who feel like it is

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Speaker 1: the truth.

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Speaker 2: I think traditionally that has been used as a bit

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Speaker 2: of a narrative, specifically around children, and you know, I

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Speaker 2: understand that people may think that you know it uplifts them.

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Speaker 2: And you know, for some people that may be true,

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Speaker 2: but I think as a whole, it can infantilize a

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Speaker 2: little bit the lives of an autistic person. And you know,

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Speaker 2: I don't see that being autistic is a superpower for me.

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Speaker 2: You know, sure there's strengths and there's also difficulties, But

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Speaker 2: I'm just a person who is autistic, and I prefer,

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Speaker 2: and I think a lot of the autistic people that

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Speaker 2: I know prefer not to go down the superpower path.

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Speaker 1: Emily, something I didn't realize until someone recently just told

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Speaker 1: me is that kids now use the word autistic in

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Speaker 1: a way that say, we as kids would have used

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Speaker 1: the word gay as a slur in a negative way

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Speaker 1: because we didn't understand probably what it even meant or

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Speaker 1: how hurtful it was at the time. But they're using

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Speaker 1: the word autistic like that in the schoolyard against each other.

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Speaker 1: How do we teach our kids the implications and the

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Speaker 1: impacts of using the word like that.

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Speaker 2: I'm quite I guess lucky in terms of the schools

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Speaker 2: that I work at, I haven't I haven't seen that.

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Speaker 3: But I think that really.

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Speaker 2: Comes down to the continual conversation about differences and that

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Speaker 2: is conversations every day that is validating each other's experiences.

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Speaker 2: I think rather than targeting, you know specifically, Okay, we're

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Speaker 2: not going to use that word, Let's educate each other

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Speaker 2: to understand that there are just different ways of processing

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Speaker 2: and different ways that we relate to the world. And

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Speaker 2: I think if we do that from the beginning, you know,

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Speaker 2: and that might be through you know, from kindergarten we're

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Speaker 2: reading books to children about different brain types and carry

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Speaker 2: that sort of education all the way up in the

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Speaker 2: schooling system and having children understand we are all part

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Speaker 2: of the diversity of the world and you know, we

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Speaker 2: are all different and that's okay.

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Speaker 1: That also too, might help some adults with maybe the

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Speaker 1: fear that they experience when talking about or speaking to

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Speaker 1: someone who has autism, because I understand that fear I

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Speaker 1: think sometimes is the greatest driver in that ignorance, because

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Speaker 1: they're worried about saying the wrong thing, about maybe doing

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Speaker 1: something that might end in someone with autism reacting badly,

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Speaker 1: and so there's that real fear of the unknown in

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Speaker 1: that respect.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, there's so much fear I think for parents and carers. Firstly,

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Speaker 2: in you know, traditionally when you were told that your

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Speaker 2: child is autistic, it was done in a way that

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Speaker 2: signified that this was a bad thing, and this was

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Speaker 2: something that you know, maybe the end of their life

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Speaker 2: or means that they wouldn't have a thriving and a

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Speaker 2: bright future. But I think if we can reframe those

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Speaker 2: conversations right from the beginning, it takes that fear away.

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Speaker 2: When I have spoken at professional development sessions in the

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Speaker 2: past and I disclose that I am autistic, people you know,

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Speaker 2: they come up to me at the end and they go, wow,

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Speaker 2: I've never viewed it.

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Speaker 3: Like this before.

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Speaker 2: And again that comes right back to that idea of

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Speaker 2: what we think being autistic means. So taking away that

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Speaker 2: fear for parents as well, right from the get go,

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Speaker 2: goes a huge way in making sure that we are

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Speaker 2: overall being inclusive.

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Speaker 1: We'll leave you with some final things our parents of

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Speaker 1: neurodivergent kids want us to know. Someone says she's a

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Speaker 1: single mum and so very tired.

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Speaker 3: Please help.

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Speaker 9: When it's eight forty five in the morning and you're

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Speaker 9: already running late and you're trying to get out the door,

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Speaker 9: trying to get into school on time. It's those moments

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Speaker 9: where it is the simplest things that are the hardest.

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Speaker 9: And sometimes I wish when I arrive somewhere exasperated or disheveled,

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Speaker 9: that other parents would maybe just go, you got this,

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Speaker 9: or you know what, how about just have a seat

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Speaker 9: and I'll grab you a cuppa. It's just little things

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Speaker 9: that make such a difference, and I wish people knew that.

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Speaker 1: Elvira says she's thankful that there's a community out there

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Speaker 1: who are supportive and kind.

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Speaker 5: I absolutely love both my children with all my heart.

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Speaker 5: They are kind, generous, smart, and they have a wonderful

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Speaker 5: sense of humor. And I cannot believe how lucky we

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Speaker 5: are to be part of the autistic community.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for spending some time with us feeding your mind today.

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Speaker 1: If you want to get in touch with Emily's company,

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Speaker 1: affirm with me. We'll pop the link to it in

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Speaker 1: our show notes. And if you keen to hear about

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Speaker 1: Mumma MEA's founder Mia Friedman's experience with ADHD, her journey

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Speaker 1: to diagnosis, and how she's come to terms with her

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Speaker 1: own brain, you can find a link to her No

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Speaker 1: Filter episode in the show notes, along with the link

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Speaker 1: to listen to Josh Thomas on Claire Stephens show But

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Speaker 1: Are You Happy, where he talks about his own autism

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Speaker 1: diagnosis too. The quickie is produced by me Claire Murphy

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Speaker 1: and our Senior producer Taylor Strato, with audio production by

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Speaker 1: Tom lynd