Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.
Speaker 2: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on. Before we get into
Speaker 2: today's show, we couldn't not mention the images that were
Speaker 2: sure that you've seen everywhere over the weekend, incredibly distressing
Speaker 2: of mothers and ghasa holding their starving children. Prime Minister
Speaker 2: Anthony Alberanezi described in a statement on Friday that Israel's
Speaker 2: denial of aid was helping cause this, and the images
Speaker 2: will undoubtedly have impacted you as much as they have us.
Speaker 3: There are, of course, there are accounts from medics and
Speaker 3: aid workers and civilians on the ground that are facing
Speaker 3: this starvation, and I think that it upsets the moral
Speaker 3: fiber of every human being. And I'm sure I'm with
Speaker 3: so many out louders who who feel I just can't
Speaker 3: think of another word other than heartbroken that hungry people
Speaker 3: cannot get access to the food that they need. You know,
Speaker 3: we've spoken on the show before about the last two years,
Speaker 3: this level of helplessness in the face of what feels
Speaker 3: like such urgency to some of the most vulnerable, vulnerable people.
Speaker 1: To stay up to date with the unfolding tragic events
Speaker 1: in Gaza and the international reaction to it, including here
Speaker 1: in Australia. Please listen to Momammia's twice daily news podcast,
Speaker 1: The Quickie, and if you want to donate to the
Speaker 1: AID agencies who are still operating on the ground in Gaza.
Speaker 1: If you feel as helpless and as hopeless and as
Speaker 1: devastated as we all do, there are still AID agencies
Speaker 1: who are on the ground trying to get food and
Speaker 1: aid to civilians in an incredibly difficult, hostile environment. I
Speaker 1: mean people have been killed trying to access aid, which
Speaker 1: is just so shocking. We have put links to these organizations,
Speaker 1: which include UNISEF, the World's Central Kitchen and Doctors Without
Speaker 1: Borders in our show notes.
Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to MoMA. Me are out loud. It's
Speaker 2: what women are actually talking about on Monday, the twenty
Speaker 2: eighth of July. My name is Holly Wainwright.
Speaker 1: My name's Mia Friedman.
Speaker 3: And I'm Jesse Stevens.
Speaker 2: And here's what's on our agenda for today. The argument
Speaker 2: Australia had this weekend. Yes, we've got some very big
Speaker 2: feelings about Triple J's Hottest one hundred of all time.
Speaker 1: Plus Gwyneth Paltrow has been paid millions of dollars to
Speaker 1: insert herself into the Coldplay couple cheating scandal. Meanwhile, Harry
Speaker 1: Styles wants you to insert the new sex toy he's
Speaker 1: just launched. But I have some questions about where Zachery
Speaker 1: you're meant to insert it.
Speaker 3: And the app that has given way to a very thorny,
Speaker 3: very uncomfortable debate about dating privacy and what on earth
Speaker 3: is going on between men and women right now.
Speaker 2: My place, like homes all over the nation, was a
Speaker 2: house on Saturday night. It was a house divided as
Speaker 2: we listened as a family and then as a couple
Speaker 2: to the nation's poll results rolling. I'm talking, of course,
Speaker 2: about Triple J's hottest one hundred Australian songs of all time.
Speaker 1: I completely missed this.
Speaker 3: What a great idea, Oh.
Speaker 2: So good because they the nation's youth station and it's
Speaker 2: been the nation's use station for several generations now, which
Speaker 2: was very much reflected in the list.
Speaker 1: I don't know if any youths still listen.
Speaker 2: Tell you about the demographic.
Speaker 1: I thought it was all people our age.
Speaker 2: No, there's double J for that. Oh okay, so there's.
Speaker 3: Double J for old people.
Speaker 2: They're trying to quarantine the old people. But anyway, as
Speaker 2: we all know, every year Triple J does the Hottest
Speaker 2: one hundred. It's a massive pillar, we would say, in
Speaker 2: the content business for them. And this year they decided
Speaker 2: to get a midyear bite of that because that's always January,
Speaker 2: and they decided to do the hottest one hundred Australian
Speaker 2: songs of all time.
Speaker 1: They've done this.
Speaker 2: Before, or a version of this, like years ago in
Speaker 2: the nineties. I remember it.
Speaker 1: But it's so clever.
Speaker 2: It's so clever. What's interesting is so they say more
Speaker 2: than two and a half million people voted in this poll.
Speaker 3: Oh my goodness, that's a lot of people.
Speaker 2: The demographic, the biggest demographic of voters was between eighteen
Speaker 2: and twenty nine, yep, which is why some of the
Speaker 2: results are quite interesting.
Speaker 3: Holly, I want the top ten, and I want you
Speaker 3: to go from ten, and I want you to count
Speaker 3: down and I want are we thinking running commentary as Holly, Yeah,
Speaker 3: just some thoughts and feelings, Okay, go.
Speaker 2: In our house. By the way, we did this where
Speaker 2: we listened to the actual top five ten like after
Speaker 2: the fact, and I made Brent guess each one was
Speaker 2: very cood.
Speaker 3: I did did games?
Speaker 2: Yep? Yep? Number ten somebody that I used to know
Speaker 2: by go chikimbro Yes, brilliant, Yes, expected love.
Speaker 1: That libiting each of a song.
Speaker 2: Please, don't I think people have it been given a
Speaker 2: second life by Docci obviously, who knows whether or not
Speaker 2: it would have been as high without her intelle I
Speaker 2: should know that true give us nine my anxiety.
Speaker 1: She exampled it.
Speaker 2: How to Make Gravy by Paul Kelly.
Speaker 3: Oh I had to make top ten?
Speaker 2: Yep? Absolutely, yeah, absolutely, Number eight And this is the
Speaker 2: point I started shouting at Brent about old Men Casan
Speaker 2: by Cold Chisel.
Speaker 3: I don't really like that song, but I understand its
Speaker 3: cultural significance.
Speaker 2: Quickly followed, and this was very cute if you were listening,
Speaker 2: because they've got Jimmy Barnes on the phone and he
Speaker 2: was all excited about k San, but he didn't know that.
Speaker 2: At number seven, Flame Trees, also by Cold Chisel.
Speaker 1: Okay, how does that go?
Speaker 4: Oh?
Speaker 2: I love that song? It Flame Trees that blood, Oh,
Speaker 2: I love that song. Also did a brilliant version of it.
Speaker 3: I feel like that indicates to me that Brent made
Speaker 3: a few profiles and did a bit of voting and
Speaker 3: that's okay. What's number three?
Speaker 2: Double cold Chisel? Oh, still with the old blokes, although
Speaker 2: no offense, guys. My happiness by powder Finger, Yep, yep.
Speaker 2: Number five, it's the big number five. Don't dream it's
Speaker 2: over by Crowded House.
Speaker 1: I love crowded House.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they love Crowded House. Beautiful iconic. Hey is their discussion,
Speaker 3: Hollywayen right about how much Australia can truly claim crowded House.
Speaker 2: Yes. When I Crowded House popped into the countdown a
Speaker 2: little earlier on with something Else Better be Home Soon,
Speaker 2: which is one of my favorites. Yeah, and I was like, no, no, no,
Speaker 2: they're Kiwi's.
Speaker 3: I thought they were a little bit Kiwai too, and.
Speaker 2: Again my house divided. Brent is a Kiwi and he
Speaker 2: was like, no, I think they're Australian now, and I'm like, well,
Speaker 2: if it was Kiwi songs, we could have all kinds
Speaker 2: of other things in here.
Speaker 1: But we could have Russell Crowe's thirty odd foot.
Speaker 3: A gues he could at which point I could have Lord.
Speaker 3: We had this discussion and Lucas said, hang on Kings
Speaker 3: of Leon haven't appeared yet, and I went, what's wrong
Speaker 3: with you? They're just simply not Australian.
Speaker 2: One of the many things has been illuminated by this
Speaker 2: countdown is in our discussion this morning, one of our
Speaker 2: wonderful content creators, Tessa, was like, I didn't know ACTC
Speaker 2: were Australian, and she then went on to list all
Speaker 2: these other buds she didn't know Australian. I'm like, what
Speaker 2: are they teaching you in school?
Speaker 3: Yes? See, this is an important education moment.
Speaker 1: So a lot of these bands broke up or the
Speaker 1: lead singers died before gen Z was born.
Speaker 3: Often jen Z knows the song Australian Okay number five
Speaker 3: was cron Okay.
Speaker 2: Number four Friend of the Pod.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Missy Higgins with Scar great loved this.
Speaker 3: I was waiting for Scar to come. We had Special
Speaker 3: two I think around the fifties Robbed, Robbed, Rob Scott.
Speaker 3: I definitely needed Scar in the top five.
Speaker 2: Yes, and Brent was still happy. This next one is
Speaker 2: the point at which Brent lost his mind. And I
Speaker 2: need Jesse Stevens to explain it to me. Because many
Speaker 2: young women around the nation roared with approval at number
Speaker 2: three of the Greatest Australian Songs of All Time Untouched
Speaker 2: by the Veronicas.
Speaker 3: Sorry, I saw that and went, oh, I thought that
Speaker 3: could have been number one, and Luca looked at me.
Speaker 1: Can you sing that for me?
Speaker 3: Well, it starts with a do do Do.
Speaker 2: Do Do Do do is.
Speaker 3: The violin and that's the bit where it gets really
Speaker 3: good and then it's like touched. It goes like that, right, Okay,
Speaker 3: we all need to understand. I feel as though half
Speaker 3: the country missed a viral moment and the other half
Speaker 3: of the country leaned into the viral moment. This song
Speaker 3: came out about two thousand and seven, two thousand and eight.
Speaker 2: Yes, and the Veronicas have a lot.
Speaker 3: Of bangers forever like they're honestly icons. But what happened
Speaker 3: with this song is that it came.
Speaker 1: With the icons compared to like Missy Higgins and Crowded hous.
Speaker 3: Of this some very good number three. The reason that
Speaker 3: they number three is because this song came out at
Speaker 3: a time when like MySpace was exploding, right, so everyone
Speaker 3: had like a MySpace song. It was really really big.
Speaker 3: It actually got on the Billboard charts in the US
Speaker 3: and the UK. It had international acclaim. But then it
Speaker 3: had this resurgence. I thought everyone knew about this resurgence.
Speaker 3: Clearly not in like twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen, it was
Speaker 3: reclaimed as this like queer pop anthem because one of
Speaker 3: the Veronicas is queer, and so she's sort of become
Speaker 3: this like a Kylie. But if Kylon was quick and
Speaker 3: so it had this resurgence in sort of the Internet
Speaker 3: age and the TikTok age where like I went back
Speaker 3: to go I do remember this correctly, don't I? And
Speaker 3: it was like a BuzzFeed articles with just like fifty
Speaker 3: tweets about untiped being the best song ever written. So
Speaker 3: for millennials and elder Genz's this is the number one Australian.
Speaker 2: Song at all time, clearly because they put it at
Speaker 2: number three. Brent McKean regained his status by predicting number two.
Speaker 2: The nosebleed section by the Hilltop Hoods, so.
Speaker 1: A great song, great song, put it number two. I
Speaker 1: always forget that the Hilltop Hooods are Australian, although I
Speaker 1: shouldn't because they sing in very Australian act. I only
Speaker 1: put it at number two.
Speaker 2: Oh, great song, but number one didn't pick it. I
Speaker 2: don't think you two picked it, but the minute the
Speaker 2: intro starts, you're.
Speaker 3: Like, of course, surprise, never.
Speaker 2: Apart by excess.
Speaker 3: Just because of the age of people voting, I kind
Speaker 3: of probably didn't expect it to be that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely in an excess song should have been in there.
Speaker 1: I don't know if it should have been number one,
Speaker 1: and we're going to give our top fives at the
Speaker 1: end of the show. But I always just think of
Speaker 1: that song as Michael Hutchin's funeral song, and maybe that's
Speaker 1: they played it at his funeral, that's what they walked
Speaker 1: out of the church to behind the coffin.
Speaker 2: I always think of his funeral song as being Nick
Speaker 2: Caves into your Arms, which was which also made the
Speaker 2: Top twenty. It's so interesting because what I realized about,
Speaker 2: especially when you hear about the age of voters, is
Speaker 2: that what your greatest of all time is Because there
Speaker 2: was a lot of diversity in this list in that
Speaker 2: there was some new stuff, but there was a lot
Speaker 2: of old stuff. But it's hard to say that a
Speaker 2: song that was out last year is the greatest song
Speaker 2: of all time, like you might if you love it,
Speaker 2: love it, love it hard. Yeah, So usually your song
Speaker 2: of all time is connected to a moment to you.
Speaker 2: And what was evident to me in the fact that
Speaker 2: a lot of young people voted for a lot of
Speaker 2: these old songs is their songs that their parents were
Speaker 2: playing in the house. Yeah. Right, So Brent thinks of
Speaker 2: like k Sam and whatever I mean, my God being
Speaker 2: his songs because he was a young guy singing them
Speaker 2: in pubs. But for the people who voted for them
Speaker 2: in this rundown, it's probably the song that their dad
Speaker 2: was playing, you know what I mean. And I think
Speaker 2: that's where the emotional connection comes in. But never Tear
Speaker 2: Us Apart is very emotional.
Speaker 3: And I think a lot of these have had another play,
Speaker 3: either on TikTok or in films or television, and that
Speaker 3: kind of gives it another life. I expected Rufus Desoul
Speaker 3: to be further up because of the people voting, but
Speaker 3: then I thought of that.
Speaker 1: I don't know what that means.
Speaker 3: Rufus, I know what, Rufus have won multiple Grammys, They've
Speaker 3: been on Okay, I'm trying to think. Well, in a
Speaker 3: Bloom was on there?
Speaker 2: Yes? That was quite hard?
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 1: How does it go?
Speaker 2: Well?
Speaker 3: You guys kind of like what do you call it electro?
Speaker 3: It's like, yeah, you just know. Rufus Is Vagen says,
Speaker 3: they make the Triple J Top one hundred every year
Speaker 3: like they're massive.
Speaker 2: It was also distressing that there weren't more women, But again,
Speaker 2: I think that we've only begun to see the correction
Speaker 2: of female representation in this kind of music in the
Speaker 2: last few years. Yeah, and so the hottest one hundred
Speaker 2: of the year is getting slightly better on women, but
Speaker 2: in terms of the greatest of all time, that's going
Speaker 2: to take a while to shine through.
Speaker 3: Although Tane Maraina didn't make apparence criminal change, Chane didn't
Speaker 3: make I think that could have been top ten.
Speaker 1: As we're talking, I think I'm going to have to
Speaker 1: revise my top five.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know so yes, as Mia says, if you care,
Speaker 2: please listen to the end of the show where we
Speaker 2: will reveal at top Maya.
Speaker 3: Do you know the song that goes You were right.
Speaker 2: Getting Jesse Stevens were right, it's the best. Oh my god, something's.
Speaker 4: Wrong with that?
Speaker 1: What is that song?
Speaker 3: Is by It's the biggest song in the entire world.
Speaker 1: You were right, yes, Dear coming up after the break,
Speaker 1: how much was Gwyneth Paltrow paid to become part of
Speaker 1: the Coldplay couple cheating scandal, and what does this have
Speaker 1: to do with the soft skin on the back of
Speaker 1: her knees. It's a big week for Gwyneth Paltrow, Holly's
Speaker 1: a big week for you, clearly because today her unofficial
Speaker 1: biography is released. I've pre ordered it. I assume you
Speaker 1: have too.
Speaker 2: I already have a I don't need to read that.
Speaker 1: She has also been parachuted into the biggest pop culture
Speaker 1: gossip story of the year so far, the couple who
Speaker 1: were caught cheating at a Coldplay concert. We spoke about
Speaker 1: this last Monday quick recap. The CEO and the chief
Speaker 1: people officer of a tech company called Astronomer, who were
Speaker 1: both married to other people, were caught cuddling on a
Speaker 1: kisscam at a Coldplay concert, and the footage went viral
Speaker 1: way back ten days ago, on July sixteenth, twelve days ago, actually,
Speaker 1: what a time, resulting in the CEO resigning. Now in
Speaker 1: a genius move, yesterday, Astronomer released a video of their
Speaker 1: own on their social accounts. It's starred Gwyneth, the ex
Speaker 1: wife of Coldplay frontman Chris Martin, who was the one
Speaker 1: whose voice the world heard in the original kisscam video.
Speaker 1: Just to join the dots, here's a little bit of
Speaker 1: the video that Astronomer released yesterday with Quyneth thank you
Speaker 1: for your end and Astronomer.
Speaker 4: Hi. I'm Gwyneth Paltrow. I've been hired on a very
Speaker 4: temporary basis to speak on behalf of the three hundred
Speaker 4: plus employees at Astronomer. Astronomer has gotten a lot of
Speaker 4: questions over the last few days, and they wanted me
Speaker 4: to answer the.
Speaker 1: Most common ones.
Speaker 4: Yes, Astronomer is the best place to run apatche airflow,
Speaker 4: unifying the experience of running data mL and AI pipelines
Speaker 4: at scale.
Speaker 1: We can't quite grasp it when you're listening to it
Speaker 1: because on the screen the questions that people are asking
Speaker 1: obviously the ones like how is everyone doing? Is your social.
Speaker 2: Media WTF question?
Speaker 3: And she doesn't answer that. She just gives like corporate speech.
Speaker 1: And it's her sitting at a desk. I wanted to
Speaker 1: ask you both what you thought of it, genius.
Speaker 2: I've always told you that Gwyneth would be funny as
Speaker 2: hell if you had dinner with her, and indeed, I
Speaker 2: think she showed that side of herself. Here what I'm
Speaker 2: fascinated by because this isn't the first of this kind
Speaker 2: of immediate crisis PR do you remember, And this didn't
Speaker 2: age well very quickly after and just like that first
Speaker 2: came out the first season and mister Big died on
Speaker 2: the Peloton, Yes, and almost immediately Peloton jumped on that
Speaker 2: with Chris Noth to do an ad because if everyone
Speaker 2: was saying, well, this isn't very good PR for Peloton
Speaker 2: and blah blah blah, they jumped on it. Unfortunately they
Speaker 2: had to pull that quite quickly because Chris Not suddenly
Speaker 2: became the target of some very unsavory allegations. But it's
Speaker 2: an example of what everything looks like it's going to
Speaker 2: ship for your company. Do you ignore it and keep
Speaker 2: paddling in the other direction or do you jump on it?
Speaker 2: How quickly would Gwyneth have had to make this decision
Speaker 2: about whether or not she wanted to be part of it?
Speaker 3: Though, yeah, she wouldn't have had much time. And it's
Speaker 3: all about harnessing the attention because I was hearing because
Speaker 3: let's not forget either that it was about the kiss camp,
Speaker 3: but then it became about Astronomer like it became about
Speaker 3: how they had a very male board and the shit
Speaker 3: started to kind of splash back on them. So for them,
Speaker 3: it is irreverent, it is bold, it is dry, it
Speaker 3: is so funny. And did you know that it was
Speaker 3: Ryan Reynolds's ad agency that made it? That always is yes, And.
Speaker 1: He also made the Chris noth one, the Peloton one.
Speaker 2: They jump very fast, those guys. They understand virality.
Speaker 1: The only way to counter an Internet narrative is with
Speaker 1: another Internet narrative in the Internet vocabulary. So, I mean
Speaker 1: they did put out a statement that was very straightforward
Speaker 1: to protect the employee who had been accused of being
Speaker 1: in that video, who wasn't another person who worked in HR.
Speaker 1: So they did put out a straight statement and then
Speaker 1: everyone started going astronomer. What's astronomer? I've never heard of
Speaker 1: astronomer before, and so the idea of getting Gwyneth was
Speaker 1: absolutely genius.
Speaker 3: Can I ask a question, please? Do you think that
Speaker 3: they asked Chris Martin first? Like, do you think they
Speaker 3: went straight to.
Speaker 1: Go Oh, that's such a great question. I think they
Speaker 1: did too.
Speaker 3: I think they went to Chris because it is a
Speaker 3: little bit of an unusual leap in that Gwyneth is
Speaker 3: the ex wife.
Speaker 2: Actually, no, it's a better idea because Gwyneth is much
Speaker 2: more interesting.
Speaker 1: They couldn't have because they had to go to Gwyneth
Speaker 1: because they had to, like she's in the guise of
Speaker 1: working for them, right, being a spokesperson. So Chris Martin
Speaker 1: couldn't have done it because he was part of the
Speaker 1: original and if by this conceit he'd been working for Astronomer,
Speaker 1: he would have recognized. So they actually went to I'm
Speaker 1: trying to think who else they could have been. They
Speaker 1: could have just chosen a really, really famous person.
Speaker 3: How about Dakota I mean, I know there's a lot
Speaker 3: of questions about her that da Cotah Johnson's any friend.
Speaker 2: It could have been anyone in a way, but Gwyneth
Speaker 2: is very convincing because also Gwyneth does do these kind
Speaker 2: of things. Chris Martin does.
Speaker 1: Not, does not, and I don't know about Dakota Johnson.
Speaker 1: So Gwyneth very happy day for her biographer Amy Odell,
Speaker 1: who immediately made a video about how comparatively she's been
Speaker 1: paid between six and seven figures for endorsement. Dear nothing
Speaker 1: like this, obviously, but she appeared at the Red Sea
Speaker 1: International film first of all in Saudi Arabia in twenty
Speaker 1: twenty three, and got one point six million for that,
Speaker 1: a quarter of a million dollars for attending a launch party.
Speaker 1: Skims and Swarowski Crystals did some collab again in twenty
Speaker 1: twenty three.
Speaker 3: That's how much you'd like to get paid.
Speaker 1: And I'd need to get to live my house. About
Speaker 1: one point twenty five million for a contract that she
Speaker 1: had with Suosky, which was just to wear their jewelry.
Speaker 1: So I reckon she would have been paid five million
Speaker 1: for this. You were go yeah, no between two and five.
Speaker 1: And I think because they had to move so fast,
Speaker 1: it had to be a one offer, one and done.
Speaker 1: It had to be so good she couldn't have a
Speaker 1: feel right.
Speaker 2: And also for her to even pick up the phone.
Speaker 1: Correct, Ryan Reynolds would have called her. So I think
Speaker 1: that's the other secret. If it's just this person gets involved,
Speaker 1: it needs to be someone who can cut through all
Speaker 1: of that agent's managers, who can literally just text and go, hey,
Speaker 1: what do you think I think? And it would have
Speaker 1: had to happen very very quickly.
Speaker 3: She would have obviously been paid a premium because this
Speaker 3: is dangerous in that We don't know if tomorrow there's
Speaker 3: going to be a story come out about widespread sexual
Speaker 3: harassment and Astronomer. It's a bold move to kind of
Speaker 3: be the temporary spoken person. It is for something that
Speaker 3: you don't have time to research, and you're kind of
Speaker 3: doing their pr form.
Speaker 1: But if that does happen, would you think badly Gwyneth Paltrow, No,
Speaker 1: because it's clearly a joke. She's not really their spokesperson.
Speaker 1: She's just making a funny video.
Speaker 2: And also she's not particularly precious about attracting Internet criticism.
Speaker 2: She attracts it all the time by breathing.
Speaker 1: It's almost like an SNL sketch.
Speaker 2: It is is I have two more things before I
Speaker 2: need to move on to some other very from Gwyneth News.
Speaker 2: I remember heard some commentary last week about whether or
Speaker 2: not this whole scandal was good or bad for Astronomer, because,
Speaker 2: as you said, Jesse, it sort of spotlighted some issues
Speaker 2: within their diversity and their management team. But Scott Galloway
Speaker 2: was saying he thought this incident was terrible for the
Speaker 2: reputations obviously of the two people involved, and that, as
Speaker 2: you said last week, me or their lives would pretty
Speaker 2: much be ruined and it will follow them forever. But
Speaker 2: for Astronomer, it was good because who'd ever heard of
Speaker 2: astronomer and now suddenly everyone does. But I have a question,
Speaker 2: even after watching this ad, to either of you understand
Speaker 2: what astronomy is.
Speaker 1: No, but we're not meant to the people who are
Speaker 1: meant to know what astronomer is, which they are a
Speaker 1: data analytics company, do know.
Speaker 2: And they understood all the things that Gwyneth was talking exactly. Okay.
Speaker 2: In my other very important Gwyneth news, do not think
Speaker 2: that I did not break my thumb clicking on a
Speaker 2: recent ama with Gwyneth on Goop. So for the Goop podcast,
Speaker 2: she made a video. It's on YouTube of the places
Speaker 2: where audience could ask her anything. So in this asked
Speaker 2: me anything. Someone had asked what is Brad's favorite thing
Speaker 2: about you? Brad Foulchuk being her husband, not Brad Pitt, etc.
Speaker 2: We'll get over that. One other day she said I'd
Speaker 2: love to text him, and they said you can do that,
Speaker 2: so she in the moment, allegedly in the moment on
Speaker 2: the video, she texts him and he sends back his
Speaker 2: reply and she reads it out live. And here is
Speaker 2: a part of it.
Speaker 3: Doesn't he have a day job.
Speaker 1: He's a very busy day job's loving her.
Speaker 4: I honestly don't have a favorite, he said. I truly
Speaker 4: love every aspect of you, your physical beauty, the way
Speaker 4: your body moves through space, the way your hands add
Speaker 4: something to a pan that you feel so comfortable naked,
Speaker 4: and hate fake people when you're needy, when you're angry
Speaker 4: on the road.
Speaker 1: I love when you chug water by the bedside at night.
Speaker 4: I love your morning routine and when you act like
Speaker 4: I've been demanding you to get out of the bath
Speaker 4: when I haven't.
Speaker 1: Said a word about it.
Speaker 4: I love the skin on the back of your knees
Speaker 4: and the arch of your feet, and when you smile
Speaker 4: at me in bed after you've put in your retainers.
Speaker 4: I love how hard you try and how often you succeed.
Speaker 1: I can keep going if you like.
Speaker 2: Oh my please, don't please, don't keep going bad.
Speaker 3: I think I'm doing love wrong. I don't know if
Speaker 3: I'll ever be loved.
Speaker 2: Like the skin on the back of your knees.
Speaker 3: I don't have a nice eye. I don't have a
Speaker 3: high RT.
Speaker 1: Okay, have I internalized my misogyny that I'm just like,
Speaker 1: how can you brag about yourself like that? Like, I
Speaker 1: know she's reading what he said, but firstly I would
Speaker 1: be like, that's private between him and I, Like, that's
Speaker 1: from very intimate shit, right, And then also how can
Speaker 1: you say that out loud? He loves my physical beauty
Speaker 1: and how often I succeed at things?
Speaker 4: I love it.
Speaker 3: I'd actually also love it, and I mean she was
Speaker 3: just reading his words. I think that My shock is
Speaker 3: that he replied if I sent that, look, is this
Speaker 3: a trap? Like what have I done? And then he
Speaker 3: would say, I don't give compliments on demand, and then
Speaker 3: he would say, should we get that span of copater
Speaker 3: from Aldie? And that would be the whole conversationally.
Speaker 2: The thing that's interesting to your point me at this
Speaker 2: is one of the reasons why I have my love
Speaker 2: hate obsession with Gwynneth is You're right, we're not supposed
Speaker 2: to tell people how we are. But that's what I
Speaker 2: like about it is it's like, on the other hand,
Speaker 2: there's a sort of movement of you know, the one,
Speaker 2: and there's the princess treatment stuff, but also it's the well,
Speaker 2: why not why should I constantly have to pretend I'm unlovable.
Speaker 2: I'm rubbish, I'm terrible. I don't know what he sees
Speaker 2: in me. Why should we have to carry on like that.
Speaker 2: I'm not as hot as the girl next door. Blah
Speaker 2: blahlah blah.
Speaker 3: Were you are like.
Speaker 1: Just so intimate? Though, Like I don't know, I have
Speaker 1: this thing about all of us leaking intimacy through the
Speaker 1: internet right and through social media, and and at a
Speaker 1: time when most people are pulling back, most people I
Speaker 1: know to sort of read something like it's make no mistake.
Speaker 1: That's like a love sonnet when he wrote, but then
Speaker 1: to say it to make an into content, I don't know.
Speaker 3: I love it.
Speaker 2: I love it the skin on the back of my knees.
Speaker 2: It's never had more return to check mine. I'm going
Speaker 2: to exfoliate today.
Speaker 3: Just going to have a product for that. I don't feel.
Speaker 1: Really date their relationship, because don't you think that all
Speaker 1: the things that you most love about someone near the
Speaker 1: start of a relationship become the things that you have
Speaker 1: you the most like, for example, the way I do
Speaker 1: drink water.
Speaker 3: Yes, and it shit's us yeah exactly, mayauzzles.
Speaker 2: I love that. It's like my morning routine. I've read
Speaker 2: Gwyneth's morning routine. He does not love that it takes
Speaker 2: half an hour. He's like, can we just go to
Speaker 2: the gym, babe? And she's like, I'm oil pulling.
Speaker 1: But how everything about her so adorable? I think maybe
Speaker 1: I'm just jealous.
Speaker 3: I think so. The thing about liking her when she's
Speaker 3: agro on the road, like, that's not a particularly likable
Speaker 3: quality at all.
Speaker 2: It is when Gwyneth doesn't may.
Speaker 1: Harry Styles is selling a double started vibrator and some
Speaker 1: fancy lube to go with it. But by the time
Speaker 1: you work out where to put it, too bad, it's
Speaker 1: sold out. Did you know about this?
Speaker 2: You're disappointed by Gwyneth. I'm a little bit. I woke
Speaker 2: up a little bit disappointed by Harry today.
Speaker 3: Why is that because of your puritanical values?
Speaker 2: No, that's you. I am a stand of Harry Styles
Speaker 2: most mornings. When I wake up, after I've checked talk
Speaker 2: Gwyneth is doing, after I've checked what Megan is up to,
Speaker 2: I checked to see if Harry has dropped a new album,
Speaker 2: because it has been forever too long. Harry's house several
Speaker 2: years ago now. It was a massive album. It was
Speaker 2: amazing and we went to the show. Blah blah blah.
Speaker 1: I got COVID at that concert.
Speaker 2: It's definitely Harry's fault. What's he been doing since? Well,
Speaker 2: we have an answer. He's been creating a sex toy.
Speaker 3: He's distracted, and I for one think he's got to
Speaker 3: focus back on the music. There, I said it.
Speaker 1: Do you say that about Rihanna?
Speaker 2: You're right, tell me more about the sex toy, because
Speaker 2: I have some questions about why a sex toy?
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, I don't think he's been like spending all
Speaker 1: his time in factories looking at prototypes, building models, testing
Speaker 1: them out. He created back in twenty twenty one, before
Speaker 1: he even released that album, he created like a brand
Speaker 1: called Pleasing, which creates unisex products. You might remember this.
Speaker 1: They've done nail, skincare and clothing, and now they've gone
Speaker 1: into sexual wellness. So it's like a bit of a
Speaker 1: storefront and they've got different things. You know, there's a hoodie,
Speaker 1: and it's collabs with other brands, So he's not like
Speaker 1: manufacturing these things mostly from scratch. So a lot of
Speaker 1: his clothing is a collab with a fashion digner called J.
Speaker 1: W Anderson who's very well known. And this one is
Speaker 1: with a vibrator company, a collaborator called Zoe Ligon, So
Speaker 1: you know she has a brand of sex toys and
Speaker 1: he's done a collab right, Okay, So what's interesting is
Speaker 1: that this vibrator. When I first heard that it was
Speaker 1: double sided, I had questions too. I was a bit like,
Speaker 1: I'm going to show you a picture of it. What
Speaker 1: would your questions have been, Jesse.
Speaker 3: I guess it's like, are you meant to use it
Speaker 3: with a partner at the same time, in which case
Speaker 3: I have logistics questions. And if it's double sided, well
Speaker 3: maybe it's just depending on your mood. What you put in.
Speaker 1: It looks really nice.
Speaker 3: I know immediately what that is. Yes, So the double
Speaker 3: side looks like a microphone.
Speaker 1: It does a bit. One end is designed for internal
Speaker 1: or insertable use and the other is for external stimulation.
Speaker 1: So you can either use it with a friend or alone.
Speaker 1: So that's the double sided thing, got it? Got it?
Speaker 1: I thought that you needed two people to use it,
Speaker 1: and I had some questions about holes.
Speaker 3: I read this tweet because there's been a lot said
Speaker 3: about how, you know, how every celebrity has or had
Speaker 3: a beauty brand, whether that's makeup, and then it's really
Speaker 3: moved into skincare and it's this booming, booming industry.
Speaker 2: And unbelievably, unbelievably lucretive, lucrative for a small number of
Speaker 2: You've got a celebrity Hailey b bar Worth just sold
Speaker 2: something for BILLIONSD per company. Yep.
Speaker 3: So there's this now infamous tweet that reads everyone is
Speaker 3: beautiful and no one is horny. Like the idea is
Speaker 3: that everyone got so into the products and so into
Speaker 3: making themselves beautiful, but were we having any sex? Because
Speaker 3: we know that gen z like all the data about
Speaker 3: how much sex they're having is going down. But what
Speaker 3: that has never accounted for is like self pleasure, which
Speaker 3: they think is on the rise. And in Australia apparently
Speaker 3: we are a few years behind. In North America and
Speaker 3: even in the UK they're less conservative. I'm always surprised
Speaker 3: in the global market how they talk about Australia is
Speaker 3: quite a conservative country, really, yeap. When it comes to
Speaker 3: sex toys and stuff, we are just we are jessy
Speaker 3: about it. So interestingly, yeah, Whereas in the US there's
Speaker 3: been this full on embrace which has been because of
Speaker 3: online marketing, mostly in that people are happy to buy
Speaker 3: a sex toy if they don't have to go into a.
Speaker 2: Shop and look like that's what the explosion of sex
Speaker 2: toys is all about. Yeah, online shopping.
Speaker 3: And the second thing is that the success of sex
Speaker 3: toys has been about its association with a famous person
Speaker 3: because the taboo and the shame around it has been
Speaker 3: kind of undone. Even in an Australian context. Abby Chatfield
Speaker 3: talked on No Filter about buying a house with her
Speaker 3: sex toy money.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there was a time when you could not scroll
Speaker 1: through Instagram without having every influencer waiving their vibrator acts.
Speaker 3: And it's clearly because and I did some research on this,
Speaker 3: this is projected like if you were going to invest
Speaker 3: in something Apparently like in the next five years, sex toys,
Speaker 3: it's the new syncare, Like it's going to Okay.
Speaker 1: So, after our Rose guys were.
Speaker 2: Launching sided out loud, I.
Speaker 1: Have questions, don't you think I'm kidding? You know how
Speaker 1: my brain was podcast?
Speaker 4: Why?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Oh my god, they're nothing less sexy. Back to
Speaker 2: Harry for a sec. Right, So when I read the headlines,
Speaker 2: I assumed I was going to see Harry like waving
Speaker 2: the sexy around. No he's been much too savvy for that.
Speaker 2: He's very distanced from the marketing and lots of ways.
Speaker 2: He appears sort of in the first ad we've seen,
Speaker 2: but not his face, just his body. Because one of
Speaker 2: the things that I questioned about whether or not this
Speaker 2: is a good move for Harry, because you're so right, Jesse,
Speaker 2: everyone has to have a side hustle. Now they can
Speaker 2: change your life, and male celebrities are a little bit
Speaker 2: on the back foot in that. Well, I guess this
Speaker 2: is his hot sauce, right, this is his hot sauces
Speaker 2: salad dressing.
Speaker 3: Sauce.
Speaker 2: It opens the door for people to be able to
Speaker 2: ask him about his sex life endlessly right now, like that,
Speaker 2: for he's always been very very private about what's actually.
Speaker 1: Because I didn't read it that way.
Speaker 3: That's so interesting everyone who releases a sex toy of like, firstly,
Speaker 3: you proclaim yourself as sort of sex positive in some way,
Speaker 3: and has opened talking about pleasure and orgasms and all that.
Speaker 2: Kind of which has been part of his brand and
Speaker 2: very much part of the whole you know, Watermelon Sugar
Speaker 2: Era was all about sex and you know, queer sex
Speaker 2: and gender ambiguous sex, and so he's that's part of
Speaker 2: his brand. But I'm kind of interested that he wants
Speaker 2: to keep it that way, do you know what I mean?
Speaker 3: Is this the first man we can think of his
Speaker 3: launched a female sex toy? Because we've got Gwyneth, We've
Speaker 3: got Cara Delavin, Dakota Johnson, Lily Allen, They've all moved
Speaker 3: into the sexual wellness market in Australia. We've got female examples,
Speaker 3: but I can't think of any men Jesse.
Speaker 1: In twenty sixteen, Motley Crue launched a range of sex
Speaker 1: toys No.
Speaker 2: Thank you only for use in the shower?
Speaker 1: Would you want a Harry vibrator? I think about him anyway.
Speaker 1: It's just like joining those twos.
Speaker 3: There he is. It all depends And this celebrity endorsement
Speaker 3: thing is interesting because even in the beauty context, the
Speaker 3: product being good is what sells product, right. They get
Speaker 3: access to work with really really and it sounds like
Speaker 3: he's done it really well in terms of working with
Speaker 3: people who know what they're talking about.
Speaker 1: It probably had a bad orgasm though, like really in terms.
Speaker 2: Of the bar's pretty low for it vibrator orgasms, you
Speaker 2: know what I mean? Want you'd want to make sure
Speaker 2: you're the one with your name on it was clearing
Speaker 2: that bar.
Speaker 1: It's a bit of a moot point because it's around
Speaker 1: one hundred dollars if you could buy one. But when
Speaker 1: I went on the website to research, it said no
Speaker 1: products available.
Speaker 2: Against jam all over again. No, I think it's sold out.
Speaker 3: No, no, no, they're thinking that eventually it will be
Speaker 3: available for Australians. Just oh okay, after the break. An
Speaker 3: app called Tea is changing the way women date and
Speaker 3: the way men are held accountable. Is it a safety
Speaker 3: tool or digital vigilantism gone too far?
Speaker 2: One unlimited out loud access. We drop episodes every Tuesday
Speaker 2: and Thursday exclusively for Mamma Mia subscribers. Follow the link
Speaker 2: of the show notes to get us in your ears
Speaker 2: five days a week. And a huge thank you to
Speaker 2: all our current subscribers.
Speaker 3: A new app called Tea has given way to a thorny,
Speaker 3: very uncomfortable debate about dating, privacy and gender dynamics. So
Speaker 3: this tea app launched in twenty twenty two, twenty twenty
Speaker 3: three around then, but it has since boomed. It is
Speaker 3: the number one app on the App Store in the
Speaker 3: US for this month. It's not yet in Australia, and
Speaker 3: we'll go into why it might not work in Australia
Speaker 3: so much. But here's what it does. It is a
Speaker 3: women only, anonymous app where users review, worn about or
Speaker 3: share stories and photos of men that they have dated
Speaker 3: or that they planned to meet up with. So, for example,
Speaker 3: if I have matched with someone on a dating app,
Speaker 3: I want to know whether it's worth going on a date,
Speaker 3: I might go on to this search his name. I
Speaker 3: can reverse search an image, so that might catch someone
Speaker 3: who changes their name, and I will get reviews which
Speaker 3: might be red flags, green flags. It's linked to things
Speaker 3: like criminal records to all that kind of stuff, and
Speaker 3: it'll give you like a background check.
Speaker 1: So it's like Yelp but for men, but for men exactly.
Speaker 3: The creator, Sean Cook, was inspired by his mother's negative
Speaker 3: experiences with online dating and catfishing, and basically he thought,
Speaker 3: what the world needs is the largest group chat about dating.
Speaker 3: It's similar to that Facebook group Are we dating the
Speaker 3: same guy? That went viral?
Speaker 2: Which does exist in Australia certainly did.
Speaker 3: It's the modern day equivalent to Whisper networks. So what's
Speaker 3: the problem, Well, a few things. The first is that
Speaker 3: there is an identity verification process for the female users
Speaker 3: right that just this weekend was hacked. So in order
Speaker 3: to go on, I think you've got to have your
Speaker 3: ad a photo and then you're able to use the app.
Speaker 1: When you say used, do you mean you're able to
Speaker 1: post on it or you're just able to see it?
Speaker 3: Both?
Speaker 1: Okay?
Speaker 3: In order to even get onto the app right now,
Speaker 3: thousands of members, images, posts, and comments were exposed. And
Speaker 3: if you think about the context of domestic violence or
Speaker 3: potentially having been with an abuser, and that person then
Speaker 3: has access to things you may have said about them,
Speaker 3: like privileged informent, like that's really quite highly dangerous. The
Speaker 3: other really significant issue is, as James Grieg put it,
Speaker 3: it's digital vigilantism, the TikTok equivalent of a citizen's arrest.
Speaker 3: It's one thing if you're a legitimate scammer or criminal,
Speaker 3: and that is a portion, But do you deserve to
Speaker 3: be publicly shamed or have your reputation impacted because you
Speaker 3: ghosted someone once? There's a big question here about privacy.
Speaker 3: So one star review on the app speaks.
Speaker 1: And you also have no right of reply.
Speaker 3: No, because you can't even get on there and you
Speaker 3: can't screenshot on the app, so if I saw something
Speaker 3: about a friend, I can't even screenshot it and send
Speaker 3: it to them. There's a one star review on the
Speaker 3: app where someone is talking about a friend saying he
Speaker 3: decided not to pursue things romantically with a woman. That
Speaker 3: woman posted on the app, and as a result of
Speaker 3: that review, he'd been turned down on a bunch of dates.
Speaker 3: It's really impacted his mental health and now he avoids
Speaker 3: dating altogether.
Speaker 1: So it's like the scarlet letter, Like it's like public shaming.
Speaker 3: Yeah, what do we think? What do we think of
Speaker 3: an app like this? Do you think that it has utility?
Speaker 3: I think probably in the Australian context. There's a big
Speaker 3: question about defamation right, Like it feels dangerous for the
Speaker 3: women posting, because if you say something about someone that
Speaker 3: could be seen as defamatory, then that starts to get
Speaker 3: a bit dangerous. And the US has very different lads
Speaker 3: to us. Holly, what do you reckon?
Speaker 2: I think it's great. I think that women exchanging information
Speaker 2: like this is really important. It's one of the few
Speaker 2: things that can protect them. The biggest enemy of this
Speaker 2: is how famous it's become. All of a sudden because
Speaker 2: you know, you're saying, well, the security was breached, that's
Speaker 2: going to happen, right, Like that's going to happen with
Speaker 2: all kinds of apps. I don't think that means it
Speaker 2: shouldn't exist because it's security was breached. I think the
Speaker 2: problem is is the more well known it is, because
Speaker 2: the fact is popular proves that the use case is real,
Speaker 2: that women needed it, wanted it, and use it right,
Speaker 2: and so that's one thing. But then now it scales
Speaker 2: up and more and more people get to know about it,
Speaker 2: then people who have other motives for getting into it
Speaker 2: are going to try and get into it.
Speaker 1: When you say the fact that people wanted it proves
Speaker 1: the use case for it, I'm not saying there's no
Speaker 1: use case for it. But just because people want something
Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily mean that it's a good thing or that
Speaker 1: it's legitimate. So in response to you know, there are
Speaker 1: all these sort of Reddit threads and men's rights groups
Speaker 1: saying that the tea app needs to be deleted and
Speaker 1: taken down. In response, another app was launched called Tea Born.
Speaker 1: It says get the tea on anyone, check before you date,
Speaker 1: so you could basically leave gossip about anybody, male or female.
Speaker 1: And the Tea Born app was taken out of the
Speaker 1: app store by Apple because users were posting revenge porn
Speaker 1: of women against women. How would we feel if this
Speaker 1: was reversed? So suddenly you can have an app and
Speaker 1: only men are allowed to comment on it and it's
Speaker 1: about women, and suddenly men can go, she was a slut,
Speaker 1: she was this, she was that.
Speaker 3: Are we cool about that too?
Speaker 2: She was a psychlobe? She stored me that this information
Speaker 2: is going to be exchanged anyway, Do you know what
Speaker 2: I mean? You can't stop people from saying what they
Speaker 2: say about people. But this is actually very useful in
Speaker 2: lots of situations.
Speaker 3: I don't think that this information, I don't think it
Speaker 3: would be would have necessarily been shared. So for example,
Speaker 3: there's a tool that's a phone number look up and
Speaker 3: it helps verify if someone has a hidden marriage or
Speaker 3: a concerning history with that phone number. So you could
Speaker 3: go in and go, is this going anywaight? And look,
Speaker 3: maybe he is? And that what I.
Speaker 2: Mean when I say the use case is just talk
Speaker 2: to some women who are using dating apps regularly and
Speaker 2: they are often getting calls from people going I think
Speaker 2: you're dating my boy like this is real, It's not
Speaker 2: an imagined situation. And the thing is is that one
Speaker 2: thing that I mean, as you say, Jesse, it's complicated
Speaker 2: whether or not it could be here. But women cannot
Speaker 2: use public platforms like Facebook, and you can argue that
Speaker 2: absolutely they should not be able to to claim that
Speaker 2: they were abused by somebody because they will get slapped
Speaker 2: by defamation. And there are lots of cases of that
Speaker 2: where a woman in Australia tried to warn the new
Speaker 2: partner of a man who was abusing her and he
Speaker 2: immediately sued her, and that happens like it happens a lot.
Speaker 2: So I'm not saying that this is perfect. I'm not
Speaker 2: saying it isn't open to abuse. But what I am
Speaker 2: saying is I can see the appeal. I can see
Speaker 2: why women want to use it, and I can see
Speaker 2: why it's legitimate and lots of ways.
Speaker 1: There was a woman called Moira Donnegan. She started and
Speaker 1: created a Google spreadsheet around the time of Me Too
Speaker 1: called Shitty Media Men, which circulated like wildfire, as you
Speaker 1: can imagine, and it was circulated among women who worked
Speaker 1: in the media, and it was exactly what you say
Speaker 1: it was about this whisper network, and there were you
Speaker 1: could anonymously list any man and then his transgressions and
Speaker 1: these ranged from allegations of rape to just it was
Speaker 1: a bit creepy, Yeah, felt a bit creepy, or stood
Speaker 1: me up for dinner or whatever. And so that ended
Speaker 1: up being part of a huge legal case when some
Speaker 1: of those men said, firstly, what was written about me
Speaker 1: was not true and it was never proven in court,
Speaker 1: and these were allegations that were very serious and life ruining,
Speaker 1: and some men did have their lives ruined and they
Speaker 1: had no recourse. And what happened in the process of
Speaker 1: that is that every woman, not just who added something
Speaker 1: to that list, but every woman who received that list
Speaker 1: and saw it was named and exposed as part of
Speaker 1: this lawsuit. What I keep coming back to, and I
Speaker 1: feel so uncomfortable about this, even though I do know
Speaker 1: what you're saying in terms of someone who's got you know,
Speaker 1: around DV or around if they're married, but that's sort
Speaker 1: of maybe the ten percent. The ninety percent is other
Speaker 1: stuff that's around not being a good person, or that's
Speaker 1: more subjective. I keep thinking about when public commentary was
Speaker 1: disconnected from identity. That's when things started to devolve in
Speaker 1: the online world in terms.
Speaker 3: So you're talking about the anonymity.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's the anonymity as soon as people were able
Speaker 1: to post anonymous comments, whether it's on an Instagram or Facebook,
Speaker 1: cod anywhere on the internet. When you decouple identity from
Speaker 1: accusations and commentary, that's where things can go really, really bad.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And I also understand that sometimes you're not in a
Speaker 1: position to put your name to me.
Speaker 2: You've never put your name. However, it also.
Speaker 1: Is like, what if someone wrote something about your son,
Speaker 1: or your husband, or your friend or your brother, and
Speaker 1: they had no recourse, They don't know who did it.
Speaker 1: They say it wasn't true. This was perhaps this person's
Speaker 1: either subjective view or it's someone who was just really
Speaker 1: pissed off and wanted to wreck him. I find that
Speaker 1: incredibly just so.
Speaker 3: On the one hand, I think that this is probably
Speaker 3: filling a hole that has been left by very imperfect
Speaker 3: legal system that leaves women with no path to justice
Speaker 3: a lot.
Speaker 2: Of the time. So that's the thing is that when
Speaker 2: people say, but none of this stuff has been proven. Yeah,
Speaker 2: do you know how difficult it is for any woman
Speaker 2: to get herself believed, never mind all the way through
Speaker 2: a legal process. So what are they supposed to do
Speaker 2: exactly with this information that they have? That women exchanging
Speaker 2: information has always been incredibly important for women to protect themselves.
Speaker 3: So if you are the victim of sexual assault, which
Speaker 3: we know like one in three women are, if you
Speaker 3: are the victim of a scammer, like we have all
Speaker 3: these like who the hell is Hamish? And Dirty John
Speaker 3: and all these stories about men who have changed names
Speaker 3: and identities and you know, robbed women of so much
Speaker 3: of their life savings, you kind of go, well, if
Speaker 3: it can prevent that, then I see it as something useful.
Speaker 3: And I think that this exists and is popular because
Speaker 3: of an otherwise very big gap, which is that women
Speaker 3: go and whether it's restraining orders or whatever, they then
Speaker 3: often not listen to and the legal system is too difficult.
Speaker 1: How is it not also at the same time, character assassination,
Speaker 1: Like I understand people going on thinking, oh, I'm not
Speaker 1: sure about this guy, or maybe you want to check
Speaker 1: has he got any DV convictions? Is he married? I
Speaker 1: understand all of that. Before a date, what I would
Speaker 1: do is go and just find the tea, Like what
Speaker 1: are other women say about that, But then.
Speaker 2: It's up to you what you do with that tea.
Speaker 2: So when you said you know, there's a world of
Speaker 2: difference between ghosting and abuse, of course there is. So
Speaker 2: if I go on and I check him and it
Speaker 2: just says he ghosted me once the way that my
Speaker 2: mind would work, and we all know many many women
Speaker 2: in our lives to do the stugga, Well he ghosted
Speaker 2: you because he wasn't that into you. He'll totally be
Speaker 2: into me. You know what, I don't. It's not mandatory,
Speaker 2: do you know what I mean? Like, I don't. I
Speaker 2: think that if you're opting in to search for somebody
Speaker 2: who's given you a reason to feel a bit uncomfortable
Speaker 2: or uneasy with the more you've had really bad experiences,
Speaker 2: and you find something, then it's kind of up to
Speaker 2: you what you do with that, and also how seriously
Speaker 2: you take.
Speaker 3: I think there is a question though about collateral damage
Speaker 3: and when the question of anonymity, And I never want
Speaker 3: to accuse women of lying because we know that false
Speaker 3: reporting of crimes like these where women make an allegation
Speaker 3: of sexual assault or domestic violence against a man is
Speaker 3: really percentage wise, is very very rare when you've got
Speaker 3: the element of anonymity in there. And if you hate
Speaker 3: your boss, if you hate your ex boyfriend, and there
Speaker 3: is something you can do to make their life harder,
Speaker 3: you wouldn't go on there and say they ghosted you, right,
Speaker 3: You would say the absolute top thing, which then dilutes
Speaker 3: the legitimacy of the real accusations. And so I guess
Speaker 3: I worry about that because if I went on I
Speaker 3: was about to go on a date and it said
Speaker 3: it was one review and one red flag, and it
Speaker 3: said he was someone who physically assaulted someone, I would
Speaker 3: not go on a date with that man. And so
Speaker 3: that man has been marked, and.
Speaker 1: I don't think a lot of people would be going
Speaker 1: there to write positive reviews. So you know what we
Speaker 1: always say about don't read the comments is that the
Speaker 1: people who leave comments about anything are most likely to
Speaker 1: be on the extremes. And usually the more angry and
Speaker 1: pissed off you are, the more likely you are leave
Speaker 1: a comment, So you can get a very skewed view
Speaker 1: of either a situation or a story or a person.
Speaker 2: But then the vast majority of men wouldn't be on it,
Speaker 2: do you know what I mean? Like the guy, you've
Speaker 2: searched for Bob. Bob's not there because Bob's not done
Speaker 2: anything to piss anyone off.
Speaker 3: Like it's fine, Yeah, I know, But can you see
Speaker 3: a world in which.
Speaker 2: Can I its abused apps?
Speaker 4: You do?
Speaker 2: I think just because some things can be abused by
Speaker 2: bad actors, that they shouldn't exist. No out loud is
Speaker 2: that's all we've got time for. Except we promised you
Speaker 2: our top fives and the reasons why for our favorite
Speaker 2: Australian songs of all time. We all forgot to vote
Speaker 2: in the Triple Jist one hundreds and this is consider
Speaker 2: this our late ballots. Yeah, who wants to lead?
Speaker 1: Jesse? You go first?
Speaker 3: Okay, I'm gonna go Chains by Tina Arena because I
Speaker 3: feel she was robbed.
Speaker 1: I'm so glad you say that because I just forgot
Speaker 1: about it. You forgot?
Speaker 3: That's okay?
Speaker 2: Is that number five?
Speaker 3: That's my number five?
Speaker 1: Yes?
Speaker 3: Number four. I'm going to go with holding On by Flume.
Speaker 3: I really like Flume.
Speaker 2: I like was in there a couple of times. Tell
Speaker 2: me why.
Speaker 3: I just think it's like, it's such a good party song.
Speaker 3: I love when I'm overseas and I hear Ozzie Music
Speaker 3: and I just have been traveling and heard that song
Speaker 3: about me so happy. Number three I'm going to go truly, madly,
Speaker 3: deeply by not.
Speaker 2: Enough Savage Garden and not High Enough.
Speaker 3: I loved Average Garden.
Speaker 1: I just love them.
Speaker 3: Number two Torn by Nataliembroler. Yes, it's just that is
Speaker 3: on like my list of such a banger. That film
Speaker 3: clip her haircut, it was a moment. Number one Better
Speaker 3: Be Home Soon by Crowded. I think it's one of
Speaker 3: the best songs ever. That's Wow.
Speaker 1: We've got a lot of common ground.
Speaker 2: I do too. I think her top fives are going
Speaker 2: to be quite similar.
Speaker 3: Okay, Maya, what's your top five?
Speaker 1: Okay? I did have six, and I had Natalie and
Speaker 1: Broulier Torn, but I want to tie it with chains.
Speaker 1: I know I sound like I'm just copying you. That's
Speaker 1: because I am. Okay, all right. My next song is
Speaker 1: in an excess song and it is not that one.
Speaker 1: It is either Disappear or New Sensation.
Speaker 3: I couldn't do wrong about that.
Speaker 2: Number four either, don't If there's gonna be an excess
Speaker 2: song in there, shouldn't it be did a little little litter?
Speaker 2: Shouldn't it be that one sexy moment.
Speaker 3: Okay, what's like all of them? What do you get? Okay,
Speaker 3: if you get extra, I get extra.
Speaker 1: Don't dream. It's over crowded house, but also better be Home.
Speaker 3: Better Homes, a better song than I would.
Speaker 1: Like this Top five, My order is a little bit
Speaker 1: fucked up. But then I'm going to say, am I
Speaker 1: ever going to see your face again? By The Angels?
Speaker 1: And I thought about what you said. Whole about that
Speaker 1: is my youth, you know? So many of these are
Speaker 1: the pub songs that I didn't go to pubs, but
Speaker 1: that I danced to your parties. Then I'm going to
Speaker 1: say Midnight Oil, a Power and the Passion. Oh yes, okay,
Speaker 1: Midnight Oil, I mean, come on right. Beds of Burning
Speaker 1: is also great. But number one, believe this is even
Speaker 1: a contest. You're the Voice by John Ollen.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 2: I love that song. Oh my god, that song that man,
Speaker 2: it was comic fifteen. I think I think it was.
Speaker 3: Okay, how about you, Holly five?
Speaker 2: I have reasons for all of mine. Number five, like
Speaker 2: you guys, It's Tall by Natalie Karaoke. It's my favorite
Speaker 2: karaoke so so one of them. Yes, the Moment in
Speaker 2: Time when she did that, I thought she was the
Speaker 2: most beautiful Maan I don't see and you know how
Speaker 2: you get obsessed with that. Number four, it is slightly newer.
Speaker 2: It's booster Seat by Spacey Jane. The reason why how
Speaker 2: does that because in my booster's seat it feels like anyway?
Speaker 2: The reason why I don't know that one me and
Speaker 2: my daughter sing it in the car. We have sung
Speaker 2: it in the car together for years now, so I
Speaker 2: know that even when I'm on my deathbed, if I
Speaker 2: hear that song.
Speaker 3: It will That makes me feel really happy, because yesterday
Speaker 3: Luna made me play police sirens in the car, so
Speaker 3: one day we may listen to real music to Spacey Jane.
Speaker 2: Number three. It's a Missy Higgins, but not one of
Speaker 2: the ones that made it in the Sound of White
Speaker 2: That yeah, exactly. The reason it's in my list is
Speaker 2: because every single time I hear it, no matter how
Speaker 2: many times I've heard it, it makes me cry losing
Speaker 2: someone fry my eyes out. Number two. How was this
Speaker 2: song not in the Hot one hundred Chandelier by see It?
Speaker 2: I know?
Speaker 3: I agree that is one.
Speaker 2: Of my favorite bangers of all time song.
Speaker 1: Throw your Arms around Me hunters and collectors.
Speaker 3: Yes, I wonder if that made it.
Speaker 2: But Chandelier is one of my pomp up songs and
Speaker 2: number one and it was in the top ten is
Speaker 2: how to Make Gravy by Paul Kelly. Because it for me,
Speaker 2: it's Christmas, it's family, it's our songs. So I think
Speaker 2: your songs are always going to be emotionally connected to something, and.
Speaker 3: Those I'd like to say that I would have pretty
Speaker 3: much all five Messy Higgins, but I felt like she
Speaker 3: did get acknowledged with Scar and also just a late entrance.
Speaker 3: I think Horses by darryl Oh that.
Speaker 1: Was on their tur That would have been Amelia Lester's
Speaker 1: top song. That was her wedding song.
Speaker 2: Really, all the Americans look really confused.
Speaker 1: Yes they were, they were confused. That is that chronic song.
Speaker 2: Okay, before we go, I think you have something to
Speaker 2: tell the out loud as me I do.
Speaker 1: We hear from so many of you who are struggling
Speaker 1: in your relations and ships, not just with your partners,
Speaker 1: but other family members, even friendships. So what we've decided
Speaker 1: at Muma Mia we are going to create a new podcast.
Speaker 1: We've been developing it for quite a while now, where
Speaker 1: real people with real problems can get real therapy. Our
Speaker 1: team are working with an incredible clinical psychotherapist. She's so great.
Speaker 1: She's like our version of Vesta Perell. You can love her.
Speaker 1: And so we're looking for pairs of all kinds of configurations,
Speaker 1: not just romantic couples, people who feel they'd benefit from
Speaker 1: the therapy process. So it might be a sibling, it
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Speaker 1: we will be back in your ears tomorrow.
Speaker 2: Bye bye bye.
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