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Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.

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Speaker 2: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters

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Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on. Before we get into

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Speaker 2: today's show, we couldn't not mention the images that were

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Speaker 2: sure that you've seen everywhere over the weekend, incredibly distressing

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Speaker 2: of mothers and ghasa holding their starving children. Prime Minister

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Speaker 2: Anthony Alberanezi described in a statement on Friday that Israel's

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Speaker 2: denial of aid was helping cause this, and the images

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Speaker 2: will undoubtedly have impacted you as much as they have us.

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Speaker 3: There are, of course, there are accounts from medics and

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Speaker 3: aid workers and civilians on the ground that are facing

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Speaker 3: this starvation, and I think that it upsets the moral

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Speaker 3: fiber of every human being. And I'm sure I'm with

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Speaker 3: so many out louders who who feel I just can't

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Speaker 3: think of another word other than heartbroken that hungry people

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Speaker 3: cannot get access to the food that they need. You know,

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Speaker 3: we've spoken on the show before about the last two years,

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Speaker 3: this level of helplessness in the face of what feels

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Speaker 3: like such urgency to some of the most vulnerable, vulnerable people.

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Speaker 1: To stay up to date with the unfolding tragic events

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Speaker 1: in Gaza and the international reaction to it, including here

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Speaker 1: in Australia. Please listen to Momammia's twice daily news podcast,

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Speaker 1: The Quickie, and if you want to donate to the

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Speaker 1: AID agencies who are still operating on the ground in Gaza.

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Speaker 1: If you feel as helpless and as hopeless and as

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Speaker 1: devastated as we all do, there are still AID agencies

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Speaker 1: who are on the ground trying to get food and

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Speaker 1: aid to civilians in an incredibly difficult, hostile environment. I

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Speaker 1: mean people have been killed trying to access aid, which

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Speaker 1: is just so shocking. We have put links to these organizations,

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Speaker 1: which include UNISEF, the World's Central Kitchen and Doctors Without

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Speaker 1: Borders in our show notes.

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Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to MoMA. Me are out loud. It's

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Speaker 2: what women are actually talking about on Monday, the twenty

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Speaker 2: eighth of July. My name is Holly Wainwright.

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Speaker 1: My name's Mia Friedman.

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Speaker 3: And I'm Jesse Stevens.

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Speaker 2: And here's what's on our agenda for today. The argument

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Speaker 2: Australia had this weekend. Yes, we've got some very big

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Speaker 2: feelings about Triple J's Hottest one hundred of all time.

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Speaker 1: Plus Gwyneth Paltrow has been paid millions of dollars to

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Speaker 1: insert herself into the Coldplay couple cheating scandal. Meanwhile, Harry

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Speaker 1: Styles wants you to insert the new sex toy he's

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Speaker 1: just launched. But I have some questions about where Zachery

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Speaker 1: you're meant to insert it.

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Speaker 3: And the app that has given way to a very thorny,

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Speaker 3: very uncomfortable debate about dating privacy and what on earth

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Speaker 3: is going on between men and women right now.

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Speaker 2: My place, like homes all over the nation, was a

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Speaker 2: house on Saturday night. It was a house divided as

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Speaker 2: we listened as a family and then as a couple

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Speaker 2: to the nation's poll results rolling. I'm talking, of course,

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Speaker 2: about Triple J's hottest one hundred Australian songs of all time.

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Speaker 1: I completely missed this.

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Speaker 3: What a great idea, Oh.

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Speaker 2: So good because they the nation's youth station and it's

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Speaker 2: been the nation's use station for several generations now, which

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Speaker 2: was very much reflected in the list.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if any youths still listen.

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Speaker 2: Tell you about the demographic.

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Speaker 1: I thought it was all people our age.

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Speaker 2: No, there's double J for that. Oh okay, so there's.

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Speaker 3: Double J for old people.

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Speaker 2: They're trying to quarantine the old people. But anyway, as

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Speaker 2: we all know, every year Triple J does the Hottest

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Speaker 2: one hundred. It's a massive pillar, we would say, in

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Speaker 2: the content business for them. And this year they decided

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Speaker 2: to get a midyear bite of that because that's always January,

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Speaker 2: and they decided to do the hottest one hundred Australian

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Speaker 2: songs of all time.

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Speaker 1: They've done this.

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Speaker 2: Before, or a version of this, like years ago in

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Speaker 2: the nineties. I remember it.

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Speaker 1: But it's so clever.

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Speaker 2: It's so clever. What's interesting is so they say more

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Speaker 2: than two and a half million people voted in this poll.

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Speaker 3: Oh my goodness, that's a lot of people.

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Speaker 2: The demographic, the biggest demographic of voters was between eighteen

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Speaker 2: and twenty nine, yep, which is why some of the

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Speaker 2: results are quite interesting.

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Speaker 3: Holly, I want the top ten, and I want you

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Speaker 3: to go from ten, and I want you to count

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Speaker 3: down and I want are we thinking running commentary as Holly, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: just some thoughts and feelings, Okay, go.

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Speaker 2: In our house. By the way, we did this where

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Speaker 2: we listened to the actual top five ten like after

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Speaker 2: the fact, and I made Brent guess each one was

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Speaker 2: very cood.

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Speaker 3: I did did games?

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Speaker 2: Yep? Yep? Number ten somebody that I used to know

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Speaker 2: by go chikimbro Yes, brilliant, Yes, expected love.

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Speaker 1: That libiting each of a song.

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Speaker 2: Please, don't I think people have it been given a

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Speaker 2: second life by Docci obviously, who knows whether or not

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Speaker 2: it would have been as high without her intelle I

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Speaker 2: should know that true give us nine my anxiety.

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Speaker 1: She exampled it.

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Speaker 2: How to Make Gravy by Paul Kelly.

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Speaker 3: Oh I had to make top ten?

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Speaker 2: Yep? Absolutely, yeah, absolutely, Number eight And this is the

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Speaker 2: point I started shouting at Brent about old Men Casan

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Speaker 2: by Cold Chisel.

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Speaker 3: I don't really like that song, but I understand its

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Speaker 3: cultural significance.

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Speaker 2: Quickly followed, and this was very cute if you were listening,

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Speaker 2: because they've got Jimmy Barnes on the phone and he

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Speaker 2: was all excited about k San, but he didn't know that.

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Speaker 2: At number seven, Flame Trees, also by Cold Chisel.

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Speaker 1: Okay, how does that go?

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Speaker 4: Oh?

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Speaker 2: I love that song? It Flame Trees that blood, Oh,

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Speaker 2: I love that song. Also did a brilliant version of it.

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Speaker 3: I feel like that indicates to me that Brent made

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Speaker 3: a few profiles and did a bit of voting and

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Speaker 3: that's okay. What's number three?

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Speaker 2: Double cold Chisel? Oh, still with the old blokes, although

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Speaker 2: no offense, guys. My happiness by powder Finger, Yep, yep.

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Speaker 2: Number five, it's the big number five. Don't dream it's

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Speaker 2: over by Crowded House.

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Speaker 1: I love crowded House.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, they love Crowded House. Beautiful iconic. Hey is their discussion,

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Speaker 3: Hollywayen right about how much Australia can truly claim crowded House.

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Speaker 2: Yes. When I Crowded House popped into the countdown a

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Speaker 2: little earlier on with something Else Better be Home Soon,

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Speaker 2: which is one of my favorites. Yeah, and I was like, no, no, no,

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Speaker 2: they're Kiwi's.

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Speaker 3: I thought they were a little bit Kiwai too, and.

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Speaker 2: Again my house divided. Brent is a Kiwi and he

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Speaker 2: was like, no, I think they're Australian now, and I'm like, well,

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Speaker 2: if it was Kiwi songs, we could have all kinds

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Speaker 2: of other things in here.

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Speaker 1: But we could have Russell Crowe's thirty odd foot.

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Speaker 3: A gues he could at which point I could have Lord.

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Speaker 3: We had this discussion and Lucas said, hang on Kings

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Speaker 3: of Leon haven't appeared yet, and I went, what's wrong

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Speaker 3: with you? They're just simply not Australian.

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Speaker 2: One of the many things has been illuminated by this

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Speaker 2: countdown is in our discussion this morning, one of our

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Speaker 2: wonderful content creators, Tessa, was like, I didn't know ACTC

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Speaker 2: were Australian, and she then went on to list all

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Speaker 2: these other buds she didn't know Australian. I'm like, what

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Speaker 2: are they teaching you in school?

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Speaker 3: Yes? See, this is an important education moment.

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Speaker 1: So a lot of these bands broke up or the

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Speaker 1: lead singers died before gen Z was born.

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Speaker 3: Often jen Z knows the song Australian Okay number five

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Speaker 3: was cron Okay.

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Speaker 2: Number four Friend of the Pod.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Missy Higgins with Scar great loved this.

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Speaker 3: I was waiting for Scar to come. We had Special

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Speaker 3: two I think around the fifties Robbed, Robbed, Rob Scott.

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Speaker 3: I definitely needed Scar in the top five.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and Brent was still happy. This next one is

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Speaker 2: the point at which Brent lost his mind. And I

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Speaker 2: need Jesse Stevens to explain it to me. Because many

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Speaker 2: young women around the nation roared with approval at number

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Speaker 2: three of the Greatest Australian Songs of All Time Untouched

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Speaker 2: by the Veronicas.

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Speaker 3: Sorry, I saw that and went, oh, I thought that

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Speaker 3: could have been number one, and Luca looked at me.

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Speaker 1: Can you sing that for me?

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Speaker 3: Well, it starts with a do do Do.

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Speaker 2: Do Do Do do is.

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Speaker 3: The violin and that's the bit where it gets really

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Speaker 3: good and then it's like touched. It goes like that, right, Okay,

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Speaker 3: we all need to understand. I feel as though half

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Speaker 3: the country missed a viral moment and the other half

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Speaker 3: of the country leaned into the viral moment. This song

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Speaker 3: came out about two thousand and seven, two thousand and eight.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and the Veronicas have a lot.

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Speaker 3: Of bangers forever like they're honestly icons. But what happened

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Speaker 3: with this song is that it came.

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Speaker 1: With the icons compared to like Missy Higgins and Crowded hous.

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Speaker 3: Of this some very good number three. The reason that

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Speaker 3: they number three is because this song came out at

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Speaker 3: a time when like MySpace was exploding, right, so everyone

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Speaker 3: had like a MySpace song. It was really really big.

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Speaker 3: It actually got on the Billboard charts in the US

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Speaker 3: and the UK. It had international acclaim. But then it

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Speaker 3: had this resurgence. I thought everyone knew about this resurgence.

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Speaker 3: Clearly not in like twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen, it was

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Speaker 3: reclaimed as this like queer pop anthem because one of

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Speaker 3: the Veronicas is queer, and so she's sort of become

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Speaker 3: this like a Kylie. But if Kylon was quick and

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Speaker 3: so it had this resurgence in sort of the Internet

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Speaker 3: age and the TikTok age where like I went back

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Speaker 3: to go I do remember this correctly, don't I? And

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Speaker 3: it was like a BuzzFeed articles with just like fifty

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Speaker 3: tweets about untiped being the best song ever written. So

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Speaker 3: for millennials and elder Genz's this is the number one Australian.

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Speaker 2: Song at all time, clearly because they put it at

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Speaker 2: number three. Brent McKean regained his status by predicting number two.

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Speaker 2: The nosebleed section by the Hilltop Hoods, so.

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Speaker 1: A great song, great song, put it number two. I

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Speaker 1: always forget that the Hilltop Hooods are Australian, although I

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Speaker 1: shouldn't because they sing in very Australian act. I only

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Speaker 1: put it at number two.

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Speaker 2: Oh, great song, but number one didn't pick it. I

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Speaker 2: don't think you two picked it, but the minute the

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Speaker 2: intro starts, you're.

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Speaker 3: Like, of course, surprise, never.

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Speaker 2: Apart by excess.

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Speaker 3: Just because of the age of people voting, I kind

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Speaker 3: of probably didn't expect it to be that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely in an excess song should have been in there.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if it should have been number one,

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Speaker 1: and we're going to give our top fives at the

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Speaker 1: end of the show. But I always just think of

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Speaker 1: that song as Michael Hutchin's funeral song, and maybe that's

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Speaker 1: they played it at his funeral, that's what they walked

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Speaker 1: out of the church to behind the coffin.

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Speaker 2: I always think of his funeral song as being Nick

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Speaker 2: Caves into your Arms, which was which also made the

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Speaker 2: Top twenty. It's so interesting because what I realized about,

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Speaker 2: especially when you hear about the age of voters, is

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Speaker 2: that what your greatest of all time is Because there

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Speaker 2: was a lot of diversity in this list in that

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Speaker 2: there was some new stuff, but there was a lot

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Speaker 2: of old stuff. But it's hard to say that a

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Speaker 2: song that was out last year is the greatest song

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Speaker 2: of all time, like you might if you love it,

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Speaker 2: love it, love it hard. Yeah, So usually your song

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Speaker 2: of all time is connected to a moment to you.

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Speaker 2: And what was evident to me in the fact that

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Speaker 2: a lot of young people voted for a lot of

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Speaker 2: these old songs is their songs that their parents were

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Speaker 2: playing in the house. Yeah. Right, So Brent thinks of

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Speaker 2: like k Sam and whatever I mean, my God being

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Speaker 2: his songs because he was a young guy singing them

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Speaker 2: in pubs. But for the people who voted for them

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Speaker 2: in this rundown, it's probably the song that their dad

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Speaker 2: was playing, you know what I mean. And I think

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Speaker 2: that's where the emotional connection comes in. But never Tear

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Speaker 2: Us Apart is very emotional.

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Speaker 3: And I think a lot of these have had another play,

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Speaker 3: either on TikTok or in films or television, and that

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Speaker 3: kind of gives it another life. I expected Rufus Desoul

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Speaker 3: to be further up because of the people voting, but

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Speaker 3: then I thought of that.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what that means.

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Speaker 3: Rufus, I know what, Rufus have won multiple Grammys, They've

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Speaker 3: been on Okay, I'm trying to think. Well, in a

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Speaker 3: Bloom was on there?

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Speaker 2: Yes? That was quite hard?

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Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.

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Speaker 1: How does it go?

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Speaker 2: Well?

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Speaker 3: You guys kind of like what do you call it electro?

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Speaker 3: It's like, yeah, you just know. Rufus Is Vagen says,

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Speaker 3: they make the Triple J Top one hundred every year

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Speaker 3: like they're massive.

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Speaker 2: It was also distressing that there weren't more women, But again,

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Speaker 2: I think that we've only begun to see the correction

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Speaker 2: of female representation in this kind of music in the

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Speaker 2: last few years. Yeah, and so the hottest one hundred

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Speaker 2: of the year is getting slightly better on women, but

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Speaker 2: in terms of the greatest of all time, that's going

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Speaker 2: to take a while to shine through.

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Speaker 3: Although Tane Maraina didn't make apparence criminal change, Chane didn't

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Speaker 3: make I think that could have been top ten.

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Speaker 1: As we're talking, I think I'm going to have to

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Speaker 1: revise my top five.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I know so yes, as Mia says, if you care,

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Speaker 2: please listen to the end of the show where we

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Speaker 2: will reveal at top Maya.

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Speaker 3: Do you know the song that goes You were right.

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Speaker 2: Getting Jesse Stevens were right, it's the best. Oh my god, something's.

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Speaker 4: Wrong with that?

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Speaker 1: What is that song?

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Speaker 3: Is by It's the biggest song in the entire world.

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Speaker 1: You were right, yes, Dear coming up after the break,

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Speaker 1: how much was Gwyneth Paltrow paid to become part of

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Speaker 1: the Coldplay couple cheating scandal, and what does this have

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Speaker 1: to do with the soft skin on the back of

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Speaker 1: her knees. It's a big week for Gwyneth Paltrow, Holly's

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Speaker 1: a big week for you, clearly because today her unofficial

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Speaker 1: biography is released. I've pre ordered it. I assume you

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Speaker 1: have too.

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Speaker 2: I already have a I don't need to read that.

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Speaker 1: She has also been parachuted into the biggest pop culture

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Speaker 1: gossip story of the year so far, the couple who

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Speaker 1: were caught cheating at a Coldplay concert. We spoke about

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Speaker 1: this last Monday quick recap. The CEO and the chief

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Speaker 1: people officer of a tech company called Astronomer, who were

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Speaker 1: both married to other people, were caught cuddling on a

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Speaker 1: kisscam at a Coldplay concert, and the footage went viral

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Speaker 1: way back ten days ago, on July sixteenth, twelve days ago, actually,

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Speaker 1: what a time, resulting in the CEO resigning. Now in

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Speaker 1: a genius move, yesterday, Astronomer released a video of their

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Speaker 1: own on their social accounts. It's starred Gwyneth, the ex

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Speaker 1: wife of Coldplay frontman Chris Martin, who was the one

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Speaker 1: whose voice the world heard in the original kisscam video.

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Speaker 1: Just to join the dots, here's a little bit of

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Speaker 1: the video that Astronomer released yesterday with Quyneth thank you

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Speaker 1: for your end and Astronomer.

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Speaker 4: Hi. I'm Gwyneth Paltrow. I've been hired on a very

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Speaker 4: temporary basis to speak on behalf of the three hundred

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Speaker 4: plus employees at Astronomer. Astronomer has gotten a lot of

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Speaker 4: questions over the last few days, and they wanted me

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Speaker 4: to answer the.

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Speaker 1: Most common ones.

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Speaker 4: Yes, Astronomer is the best place to run apatche airflow,

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Speaker 4: unifying the experience of running data mL and AI pipelines

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Speaker 4: at scale.

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Speaker 1: We can't quite grasp it when you're listening to it

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Speaker 1: because on the screen the questions that people are asking

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Speaker 1: obviously the ones like how is everyone doing? Is your social.

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Speaker 2: Media WTF question?

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Speaker 3: And she doesn't answer that. She just gives like corporate speech.

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Speaker 1: And it's her sitting at a desk. I wanted to

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Speaker 1: ask you both what you thought of it, genius.

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Speaker 2: I've always told you that Gwyneth would be funny as

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Speaker 2: hell if you had dinner with her, and indeed, I

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Speaker 2: think she showed that side of herself. Here what I'm

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Speaker 2: fascinated by because this isn't the first of this kind

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Speaker 2: of immediate crisis PR do you remember, And this didn't

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Speaker 2: age well very quickly after and just like that first

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Speaker 2: came out the first season and mister Big died on

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Speaker 2: the Peloton, Yes, and almost immediately Peloton jumped on that

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Speaker 2: with Chris Noth to do an ad because if everyone

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Speaker 2: was saying, well, this isn't very good PR for Peloton

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Speaker 2: and blah blah blah, they jumped on it. Unfortunately they

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Speaker 2: had to pull that quite quickly because Chris Not suddenly

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Speaker 2: became the target of some very unsavory allegations. But it's

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Speaker 2: an example of what everything looks like it's going to

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Speaker 2: ship for your company. Do you ignore it and keep

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Speaker 2: paddling in the other direction or do you jump on it?

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Speaker 2: How quickly would Gwyneth have had to make this decision

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Speaker 2: about whether or not she wanted to be part of it?

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Speaker 3: Though, yeah, she wouldn't have had much time. And it's

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Speaker 3: all about harnessing the attention because I was hearing because

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Speaker 3: let's not forget either that it was about the kiss camp,

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Speaker 3: but then it became about Astronomer like it became about

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Speaker 3: how they had a very male board and the shit

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Speaker 3: started to kind of splash back on them. So for them,

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Speaker 3: it is irreverent, it is bold, it is dry, it

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Speaker 3: is so funny. And did you know that it was

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Speaker 3: Ryan Reynolds's ad agency that made it? That always is yes, And.

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Speaker 1: He also made the Chris noth one, the Peloton one.

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Speaker 2: They jump very fast, those guys. They understand virality.

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Speaker 1: The only way to counter an Internet narrative is with

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Speaker 1: another Internet narrative in the Internet vocabulary. So, I mean

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Speaker 1: they did put out a statement that was very straightforward

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Speaker 1: to protect the employee who had been accused of being

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Speaker 1: in that video, who wasn't another person who worked in HR.

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Speaker 1: So they did put out a straight statement and then

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Speaker 1: everyone started going astronomer. What's astronomer? I've never heard of

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Speaker 1: astronomer before, and so the idea of getting Gwyneth was

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Speaker 1: absolutely genius.

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Speaker 3: Can I ask a question, please? Do you think that

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Speaker 3: they asked Chris Martin first? Like, do you think they

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Speaker 3: went straight to.

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Speaker 1: Go Oh, that's such a great question. I think they

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Speaker 1: did too.

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Speaker 3: I think they went to Chris because it is a

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Speaker 3: little bit of an unusual leap in that Gwyneth is

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Speaker 3: the ex wife.

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Speaker 2: Actually, no, it's a better idea because Gwyneth is much

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Speaker 2: more interesting.

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Speaker 1: They couldn't have because they had to go to Gwyneth

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Speaker 1: because they had to, like she's in the guise of

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Speaker 1: working for them, right, being a spokesperson. So Chris Martin

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Speaker 1: couldn't have done it because he was part of the

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Speaker 1: original and if by this conceit he'd been working for Astronomer,

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Speaker 1: he would have recognized. So they actually went to I'm

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Speaker 1: trying to think who else they could have been. They

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Speaker 1: could have just chosen a really, really famous person.

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Speaker 3: How about Dakota I mean, I know there's a lot

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Speaker 3: of questions about her that da Cotah Johnson's any friend.

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Speaker 2: It could have been anyone in a way, but Gwyneth

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Speaker 2: is very convincing because also Gwyneth does do these kind

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Speaker 2: of things. Chris Martin does.

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Speaker 1: Not, does not, and I don't know about Dakota Johnson.

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Speaker 1: So Gwyneth very happy day for her biographer Amy Odell,

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Speaker 1: who immediately made a video about how comparatively she's been

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Speaker 1: paid between six and seven figures for endorsement. Dear nothing

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Speaker 1: like this, obviously, but she appeared at the Red Sea

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Speaker 1: International film first of all in Saudi Arabia in twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty three, and got one point six million for that,

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Speaker 1: a quarter of a million dollars for attending a launch party.

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Speaker 1: Skims and Swarowski Crystals did some collab again in twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty three.

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Speaker 3: That's how much you'd like to get paid.

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Speaker 1: And I'd need to get to live my house. About

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Speaker 1: one point twenty five million for a contract that she

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Speaker 1: had with Suosky, which was just to wear their jewelry.

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Speaker 1: So I reckon she would have been paid five million

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Speaker 1: for this. You were go yeah, no between two and five.

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Speaker 1: And I think because they had to move so fast,

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Speaker 1: it had to be a one offer, one and done.

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Speaker 1: It had to be so good she couldn't have a

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Speaker 1: feel right.

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Speaker 2: And also for her to even pick up the phone.

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Speaker 1: Correct, Ryan Reynolds would have called her. So I think

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Speaker 1: that's the other secret. If it's just this person gets involved,

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Speaker 1: it needs to be someone who can cut through all

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Speaker 1: of that agent's managers, who can literally just text and go, hey,

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Speaker 1: what do you think I think? And it would have

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Speaker 1: had to happen very very quickly.

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Speaker 3: She would have obviously been paid a premium because this

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Speaker 3: is dangerous in that We don't know if tomorrow there's

403
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Speaker 3: going to be a story come out about widespread sexual

404
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Speaker 3: harassment and Astronomer. It's a bold move to kind of

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Speaker 3: be the temporary spoken person. It is for something that

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Speaker 3: you don't have time to research, and you're kind of

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Speaker 3: doing their pr form.

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Speaker 1: But if that does happen, would you think badly Gwyneth Paltrow, No,

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Speaker 1: because it's clearly a joke. She's not really their spokesperson.

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Speaker 1: She's just making a funny video.

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Speaker 2: And also she's not particularly precious about attracting Internet criticism.

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Speaker 2: She attracts it all the time by breathing.

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Speaker 1: It's almost like an SNL sketch.

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Speaker 2: It is is I have two more things before I

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Speaker 2: need to move on to some other very from Gwyneth News.

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Speaker 2: I remember heard some commentary last week about whether or

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Speaker 2: not this whole scandal was good or bad for Astronomer, because,

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Speaker 2: as you said, Jesse, it sort of spotlighted some issues

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Speaker 2: within their diversity and their management team. But Scott Galloway

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Speaker 2: was saying he thought this incident was terrible for the

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Speaker 2: reputations obviously of the two people involved, and that, as

422
00:20:09,262 --> 00:20:10,942
Speaker 2: you said last week, me or their lives would pretty

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00:20:10,982 --> 00:20:12,901
Speaker 2: much be ruined and it will follow them forever. But

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Speaker 2: for Astronomer, it was good because who'd ever heard of

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Speaker 2: astronomer and now suddenly everyone does. But I have a question,

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Speaker 2: even after watching this ad, to either of you understand

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Speaker 2: what astronomy is.

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Speaker 1: No, but we're not meant to the people who are

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Speaker 1: meant to know what astronomer is, which they are a

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Speaker 1: data analytics company, do know.

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Speaker 2: And they understood all the things that Gwyneth was talking exactly. Okay.

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Speaker 2: In my other very important Gwyneth news, do not think

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Speaker 2: that I did not break my thumb clicking on a

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Speaker 2: recent ama with Gwyneth on Goop. So for the Goop podcast,

435
00:20:44,702 --> 00:20:46,782
Speaker 2: she made a video. It's on YouTube of the places

436
00:20:46,901 --> 00:20:50,262
Speaker 2: where audience could ask her anything. So in this asked

437
00:20:50,302 --> 00:20:53,382
Speaker 2: me anything. Someone had asked what is Brad's favorite thing

438
00:20:53,381 --> 00:20:56,022
Speaker 2: about you? Brad Foulchuk being her husband, not Brad Pitt, etc.

439
00:20:56,502 --> 00:20:59,422
Speaker 2: We'll get over that. One other day she said I'd

440
00:20:59,422 --> 00:21:02,141
Speaker 2: love to text him, and they said you can do that,

441
00:21:02,341 --> 00:21:04,901
Speaker 2: so she in the moment, allegedly in the moment on

442
00:21:04,982 --> 00:21:08,461
Speaker 2: the video, she texts him and he sends back his

443
00:21:08,581 --> 00:21:11,782
Speaker 2: reply and she reads it out live. And here is

444
00:21:11,782 --> 00:21:12,181
Speaker 2: a part of it.

445
00:21:12,262 --> 00:21:13,621
Speaker 3: Doesn't he have a day job.

446
00:21:14,262 --> 00:21:16,221
Speaker 1: He's a very busy day job's loving her.

447
00:21:17,381 --> 00:21:20,901
Speaker 4: I honestly don't have a favorite, he said. I truly

448
00:21:20,942 --> 00:21:24,422
Speaker 4: love every aspect of you, your physical beauty, the way

449
00:21:24,462 --> 00:21:27,621
Speaker 4: your body moves through space, the way your hands add

450
00:21:27,661 --> 00:21:31,701
Speaker 4: something to a pan that you feel so comfortable naked,

451
00:21:31,982 --> 00:21:35,621
Speaker 4: and hate fake people when you're needy, when you're angry

452
00:21:35,661 --> 00:21:36,182
Speaker 4: on the road.

453
00:21:36,821 --> 00:21:39,542
Speaker 1: I love when you chug water by the bedside at night.

454
00:21:40,061 --> 00:21:42,581
Speaker 4: I love your morning routine and when you act like

455
00:21:42,661 --> 00:21:44,782
Speaker 4: I've been demanding you to get out of the bath

456
00:21:44,942 --> 00:21:45,942
Speaker 4: when I haven't.

457
00:21:45,661 --> 00:21:46,902
Speaker 1: Said a word about it.

458
00:21:48,782 --> 00:21:50,822
Speaker 4: I love the skin on the back of your knees

459
00:21:50,901 --> 00:21:53,222
Speaker 4: and the arch of your feet, and when you smile

460
00:21:53,262 --> 00:21:55,702
Speaker 4: at me in bed after you've put in your retainers.

461
00:21:56,621 --> 00:22:00,141
Speaker 4: I love how hard you try and how often you succeed.

462
00:22:00,621 --> 00:22:02,302
Speaker 1: I can keep going if you like.

463
00:22:02,462 --> 00:22:05,381
Speaker 2: Oh my please, don't please, don't keep going bad.

464
00:22:06,381 --> 00:22:10,021
Speaker 3: I think I'm doing love wrong. I don't know if

465
00:22:10,022 --> 00:22:11,022
Speaker 3: I'll ever be loved.

466
00:22:10,821 --> 00:22:13,582
Speaker 2: Like the skin on the back of your knees.

467
00:22:13,861 --> 00:22:15,861
Speaker 3: I don't have a nice eye. I don't have a

468
00:22:15,901 --> 00:22:16,341
Speaker 3: high RT.

469
00:22:16,422 --> 00:22:20,502
Speaker 1: Okay, have I internalized my misogyny that I'm just like,

470
00:22:21,182 --> 00:22:23,221
Speaker 1: how can you brag about yourself like that? Like, I

471
00:22:23,262 --> 00:22:26,382
Speaker 1: know she's reading what he said, but firstly I would

472
00:22:26,422 --> 00:22:29,182
Speaker 1: be like, that's private between him and I, Like, that's

473
00:22:29,182 --> 00:22:32,542
Speaker 1: from very intimate shit, right, And then also how can

474
00:22:32,621 --> 00:22:35,581
Speaker 1: you say that out loud? He loves my physical beauty

475
00:22:36,101 --> 00:22:37,981
Speaker 1: and how often I succeed at things?

476
00:22:38,341 --> 00:22:39,061
Speaker 4: I love it.

477
00:22:39,341 --> 00:22:41,542
Speaker 3: I'd actually also love it, and I mean she was

478
00:22:41,661 --> 00:22:44,221
Speaker 3: just reading his words. I think that My shock is

479
00:22:44,262 --> 00:22:48,821
Speaker 3: that he replied if I sent that, look, is this

480
00:22:48,942 --> 00:22:51,821
Speaker 3: a trap? Like what have I done? And then he

481
00:22:51,942 --> 00:22:54,982
Speaker 3: would say, I don't give compliments on demand, and then

482
00:22:55,182 --> 00:22:57,901
Speaker 3: he would say, should we get that span of copater

483
00:22:57,982 --> 00:23:00,141
Speaker 3: from Aldie? And that would be the whole conversationally.

484
00:23:00,381 --> 00:23:02,981
Speaker 2: The thing that's interesting to your point me at this

485
00:23:03,101 --> 00:23:05,142
Speaker 2: is one of the reasons why I have my love

486
00:23:05,182 --> 00:23:08,582
Speaker 2: hate obsession with Gwynneth is You're right, we're not supposed

487
00:23:08,661 --> 00:23:11,061
Speaker 2: to tell people how we are. But that's what I

488
00:23:11,182 --> 00:23:13,622
Speaker 2: like about it is it's like, on the other hand,

489
00:23:13,702 --> 00:23:16,302
Speaker 2: there's a sort of movement of you know, the one,

490
00:23:16,381 --> 00:23:19,061
Speaker 2: and there's the princess treatment stuff, but also it's the well,

491
00:23:19,101 --> 00:23:22,542
Speaker 2: why not why should I constantly have to pretend I'm unlovable.

492
00:23:22,621 --> 00:23:24,621
Speaker 2: I'm rubbish, I'm terrible. I don't know what he sees

493
00:23:24,661 --> 00:23:26,382
Speaker 2: in me. Why should we have to carry on like that.

494
00:23:26,502 --> 00:23:28,142
Speaker 2: I'm not as hot as the girl next door. Blah

495
00:23:28,141 --> 00:23:28,662
Speaker 2: blahlah blah.

496
00:23:28,621 --> 00:23:30,421
Speaker 3: Were you are like.

497
00:23:30,581 --> 00:23:33,341
Speaker 1: Just so intimate? Though, Like I don't know, I have

498
00:23:33,422 --> 00:23:36,461
Speaker 1: this thing about all of us leaking intimacy through the

499
00:23:36,462 --> 00:23:40,022
Speaker 1: internet right and through social media, and and at a

500
00:23:40,141 --> 00:23:43,941
Speaker 1: time when most people are pulling back, most people I

501
00:23:44,022 --> 00:23:48,421
Speaker 1: know to sort of read something like it's make no mistake.

502
00:23:48,462 --> 00:23:52,382
Speaker 1: That's like a love sonnet when he wrote, but then

503
00:23:52,542 --> 00:23:55,941
Speaker 1: to say it to make an into content, I don't know.

504
00:23:56,462 --> 00:23:56,901
Speaker 3: I love it.

505
00:23:56,942 --> 00:23:59,861
Speaker 2: I love it the skin on the back of my knees.

506
00:24:00,182 --> 00:24:02,181
Speaker 2: It's never had more return to check mine. I'm going

507
00:24:02,262 --> 00:24:03,701
Speaker 2: to exfoliate today.

508
00:24:03,861 --> 00:24:06,022
Speaker 3: Just going to have a product for that. I don't feel.

509
00:24:07,061 --> 00:24:11,742
Speaker 1: Really date their relationship, because don't you think that all

510
00:24:11,782 --> 00:24:14,422
Speaker 1: the things that you most love about someone near the

511
00:24:14,462 --> 00:24:17,302
Speaker 1: start of a relationship become the things that you have

512
00:24:17,901 --> 00:24:20,061
Speaker 1: you the most like, for example, the way I do

513
00:24:20,182 --> 00:24:21,022
Speaker 1: drink water.

514
00:24:21,141 --> 00:24:25,381
Speaker 3: Yes, and it shit's us yeah exactly, mayauzzles.

515
00:24:25,542 --> 00:24:27,742
Speaker 2: I love that. It's like my morning routine. I've read

516
00:24:27,782 --> 00:24:30,702
Speaker 2: Gwyneth's morning routine. He does not love that it takes

517
00:24:30,702 --> 00:24:32,821
Speaker 2: half an hour. He's like, can we just go to

518
00:24:32,861 --> 00:24:35,302
Speaker 2: the gym, babe? And she's like, I'm oil pulling.

519
00:24:35,661 --> 00:24:38,302
Speaker 1: But how everything about her so adorable? I think maybe

520
00:24:38,341 --> 00:24:39,142
Speaker 1: I'm just jealous.

521
00:24:39,462 --> 00:24:41,982
Speaker 3: I think so. The thing about liking her when she's

522
00:24:41,982 --> 00:24:45,022
Speaker 3: agro on the road, like, that's not a particularly likable

523
00:24:45,341 --> 00:24:46,061
Speaker 3: quality at all.

524
00:24:46,222 --> 00:24:47,581
Speaker 2: It is when Gwyneth doesn't may.

525
00:24:48,581 --> 00:24:51,501
Speaker 1: Harry Styles is selling a double started vibrator and some

526
00:24:51,581 --> 00:24:53,502
Speaker 1: fancy lube to go with it. But by the time

527
00:24:53,542 --> 00:24:55,782
Speaker 1: you work out where to put it, too bad, it's

528
00:24:55,782 --> 00:24:58,782
Speaker 1: sold out. Did you know about this?

529
00:24:59,022 --> 00:25:01,582
Speaker 2: You're disappointed by Gwyneth. I'm a little bit. I woke

530
00:25:01,661 --> 00:25:03,461
Speaker 2: up a little bit disappointed by Harry today.

531
00:25:03,621 --> 00:25:05,862
Speaker 3: Why is that because of your puritanical values?

532
00:25:06,061 --> 00:25:11,502
Speaker 2: No, that's you. I am a stand of Harry Styles

533
00:25:11,821 --> 00:25:14,102
Speaker 2: most mornings. When I wake up, after I've checked talk

534
00:25:14,101 --> 00:25:16,621
Speaker 2: Gwyneth is doing, after I've checked what Megan is up to,

535
00:25:17,061 --> 00:25:19,181
Speaker 2: I checked to see if Harry has dropped a new album,

536
00:25:19,222 --> 00:25:23,821
Speaker 2: because it has been forever too long. Harry's house several

537
00:25:23,861 --> 00:25:26,061
Speaker 2: years ago now. It was a massive album. It was

538
00:25:26,101 --> 00:25:28,181
Speaker 2: amazing and we went to the show. Blah blah blah.

539
00:25:28,182 --> 00:25:29,422
Speaker 1: I got COVID at that concert.

540
00:25:29,502 --> 00:25:32,782
Speaker 2: It's definitely Harry's fault. What's he been doing since? Well,

541
00:25:32,821 --> 00:25:35,542
Speaker 2: we have an answer. He's been creating a sex toy.

542
00:25:35,581 --> 00:25:38,901
Speaker 3: He's distracted, and I for one think he's got to

543
00:25:38,901 --> 00:25:40,821
Speaker 3: focus back on the music. There, I said it.

544
00:25:40,942 --> 00:25:43,101
Speaker 1: Do you say that about Rihanna?

545
00:25:43,542 --> 00:25:46,181
Speaker 2: You're right, tell me more about the sex toy, because

546
00:25:46,222 --> 00:25:48,742
Speaker 2: I have some questions about why a sex toy?

547
00:25:48,821 --> 00:25:51,542
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, I don't think he's been like spending all

548
00:25:51,581 --> 00:25:57,021
Speaker 1: his time in factories looking at prototypes, building models, testing

549
00:25:57,022 --> 00:26:01,222
Speaker 1: them out. He created back in twenty twenty one, before

550
00:26:01,581 --> 00:26:04,742
Speaker 1: he even released that album, he created like a brand

551
00:26:04,782 --> 00:26:08,302
Speaker 1: called Pleasing, which creates unisex products. You might remember this.

552
00:26:08,422 --> 00:26:12,742
Speaker 1: They've done nail, skincare and clothing, and now they've gone

553
00:26:12,742 --> 00:26:15,661
Speaker 1: into sexual wellness. So it's like a bit of a

554
00:26:15,661 --> 00:26:18,461
Speaker 1: storefront and they've got different things. You know, there's a hoodie,

555
00:26:18,502 --> 00:26:21,302
Speaker 1: and it's collabs with other brands, So he's not like

556
00:26:21,422 --> 00:26:24,661
Speaker 1: manufacturing these things mostly from scratch. So a lot of

557
00:26:24,661 --> 00:26:27,502
Speaker 1: his clothing is a collab with a fashion digner called J.

558
00:26:27,702 --> 00:26:30,381
Speaker 1: W Anderson who's very well known. And this one is

559
00:26:30,422 --> 00:26:34,621
Speaker 1: with a vibrator company, a collaborator called Zoe Ligon, So

560
00:26:34,821 --> 00:26:36,542
Speaker 1: you know she has a brand of sex toys and

561
00:26:36,581 --> 00:26:40,701
Speaker 1: he's done a collab right, Okay, So what's interesting is

562
00:26:40,742 --> 00:26:43,462
Speaker 1: that this vibrator. When I first heard that it was

563
00:26:43,542 --> 00:26:47,661
Speaker 1: double sided, I had questions too. I was a bit like,

564
00:26:47,942 --> 00:26:49,381
Speaker 1: I'm going to show you a picture of it. What

565
00:26:49,422 --> 00:26:50,702
Speaker 1: would your questions have been, Jesse.

566
00:26:51,182 --> 00:26:52,821
Speaker 3: I guess it's like, are you meant to use it

567
00:26:52,861 --> 00:26:54,982
Speaker 3: with a partner at the same time, in which case

568
00:26:54,982 --> 00:26:59,581
Speaker 3: I have logistics questions. And if it's double sided, well

569
00:26:59,581 --> 00:27:02,422
Speaker 3: maybe it's just depending on your mood. What you put in.

570
00:27:04,381 --> 00:27:05,422
Speaker 1: It looks really nice.

571
00:27:05,861 --> 00:27:09,101
Speaker 3: I know immediately what that is. Yes, So the double

572
00:27:09,222 --> 00:27:10,702
Speaker 3: side looks like a microphone.

573
00:27:10,782 --> 00:27:13,702
Speaker 1: It does a bit. One end is designed for internal

574
00:27:13,942 --> 00:27:17,782
Speaker 1: or insertable use and the other is for external stimulation.

575
00:27:17,942 --> 00:27:20,901
Speaker 1: So you can either use it with a friend or alone.

576
00:27:20,942 --> 00:27:23,462
Speaker 1: So that's the double sided thing, got it? Got it?

577
00:27:23,702 --> 00:27:25,701
Speaker 1: I thought that you needed two people to use it,

578
00:27:25,742 --> 00:27:27,701
Speaker 1: and I had some questions about holes.

579
00:27:27,982 --> 00:27:30,222
Speaker 3: I read this tweet because there's been a lot said

580
00:27:30,302 --> 00:27:34,302
Speaker 3: about how, you know, how every celebrity has or had

581
00:27:34,341 --> 00:27:37,141
Speaker 3: a beauty brand, whether that's makeup, and then it's really

582
00:27:37,182 --> 00:27:40,302
Speaker 3: moved into skincare and it's this booming, booming industry.

583
00:27:39,861 --> 00:27:44,581
Speaker 2: And unbelievably, unbelievably lucretive, lucrative for a small number of

584
00:27:44,621 --> 00:27:47,302
Speaker 2: You've got a celebrity Hailey b bar Worth just sold

585
00:27:47,381 --> 00:27:50,182
Speaker 2: something for BILLIONSD per company. Yep.

586
00:27:50,661 --> 00:27:53,302
Speaker 3: So there's this now infamous tweet that reads everyone is

587
00:27:53,341 --> 00:27:55,621
Speaker 3: beautiful and no one is horny. Like the idea is

588
00:27:55,621 --> 00:27:58,222
Speaker 3: that everyone got so into the products and so into

589
00:27:58,222 --> 00:28:01,861
Speaker 3: making themselves beautiful, but were we having any sex? Because

590
00:28:01,901 --> 00:28:04,502
Speaker 3: we know that gen z like all the data about

591
00:28:04,502 --> 00:28:07,422
Speaker 3: how much sex they're having is going down. But what

592
00:28:07,462 --> 00:28:10,542
Speaker 3: that has never accounted for is like self pleasure, which

593
00:28:10,581 --> 00:28:14,462
Speaker 3: they think is on the rise. And in Australia apparently

594
00:28:14,502 --> 00:28:17,821
Speaker 3: we are a few years behind. In North America and

595
00:28:17,861 --> 00:28:21,421
Speaker 3: even in the UK they're less conservative. I'm always surprised

596
00:28:21,462 --> 00:28:23,462
Speaker 3: in the global market how they talk about Australia is

597
00:28:23,542 --> 00:28:26,302
Speaker 3: quite a conservative country, really, yeap. When it comes to

598
00:28:26,462 --> 00:28:28,742
Speaker 3: sex toys and stuff, we are just we are jessy

599
00:28:28,742 --> 00:28:32,061
Speaker 3: about it. So interestingly, yeah, Whereas in the US there's

600
00:28:32,101 --> 00:28:35,262
Speaker 3: been this full on embrace which has been because of

601
00:28:35,821 --> 00:28:39,862
Speaker 3: online marketing, mostly in that people are happy to buy

602
00:28:39,862 --> 00:28:41,221
Speaker 3: a sex toy if they don't have to go into a.

603
00:28:41,182 --> 00:28:43,742
Speaker 2: Shop and look like that's what the explosion of sex

604
00:28:43,742 --> 00:28:45,461
Speaker 2: toys is all about. Yeah, online shopping.

605
00:28:45,582 --> 00:28:48,342
Speaker 3: And the second thing is that the success of sex

606
00:28:48,382 --> 00:28:52,142
Speaker 3: toys has been about its association with a famous person

607
00:28:52,502 --> 00:28:55,261
Speaker 3: because the taboo and the shame around it has been

608
00:28:55,342 --> 00:28:58,902
Speaker 3: kind of undone. Even in an Australian context. Abby Chatfield

609
00:28:58,942 --> 00:29:01,222
Speaker 3: talked on No Filter about buying a house with her

610
00:29:01,382 --> 00:29:02,221
Speaker 3: sex toy money.

611
00:29:02,182 --> 00:29:05,261
Speaker 1: Yeah, there was a time when you could not scroll

612
00:29:05,302 --> 00:29:09,342
Speaker 1: through Instagram without having every influencer waiving their vibrator acts.

613
00:29:09,862 --> 00:29:13,702
Speaker 3: And it's clearly because and I did some research on this,

614
00:29:13,702 --> 00:29:15,822
Speaker 3: this is projected like if you were going to invest

615
00:29:15,822 --> 00:29:18,782
Speaker 3: in something Apparently like in the next five years, sex toys,

616
00:29:19,182 --> 00:29:21,142
Speaker 3: it's the new syncare, Like it's going to Okay.

617
00:29:21,182 --> 00:29:22,981
Speaker 1: So, after our Rose guys were.

618
00:29:22,862 --> 00:29:27,862
Speaker 2: Launching sided out loud, I.

619
00:29:27,782 --> 00:29:31,102
Speaker 1: Have questions, don't you think I'm kidding? You know how

620
00:29:31,142 --> 00:29:32,941
Speaker 1: my brain was podcast?

621
00:29:33,102 --> 00:29:33,302
Speaker 4: Why?

622
00:29:33,582 --> 00:29:39,342
Speaker 2: Yeah? Oh my god, they're nothing less sexy. Back to

623
00:29:39,382 --> 00:29:42,302
Speaker 2: Harry for a sec. Right, So when I read the headlines,

624
00:29:42,702 --> 00:29:45,181
Speaker 2: I assumed I was going to see Harry like waving

625
00:29:45,222 --> 00:29:47,902
Speaker 2: the sexy around. No he's been much too savvy for that.

626
00:29:47,942 --> 00:29:50,462
Speaker 2: He's very distanced from the marketing and lots of ways.

627
00:29:50,661 --> 00:29:54,022
Speaker 2: He appears sort of in the first ad we've seen,

628
00:29:54,062 --> 00:29:56,822
Speaker 2: but not his face, just his body. Because one of

629
00:29:56,862 --> 00:29:59,062
Speaker 2: the things that I questioned about whether or not this

630
00:29:59,142 --> 00:30:00,942
Speaker 2: is a good move for Harry, because you're so right, Jesse,

631
00:30:01,422 --> 00:30:03,342
Speaker 2: everyone has to have a side hustle. Now they can

632
00:30:03,502 --> 00:30:06,302
Speaker 2: change your life, and male celebrities are a little bit

633
00:30:06,342 --> 00:30:08,222
Speaker 2: on the back foot in that. Well, I guess this

634
00:30:08,262 --> 00:30:10,622
Speaker 2: is his hot sauce, right, this is his hot sauces

635
00:30:10,661 --> 00:30:11,622
Speaker 2: salad dressing.

636
00:30:14,182 --> 00:30:14,422
Speaker 3: Sauce.

637
00:30:15,142 --> 00:30:17,222
Speaker 2: It opens the door for people to be able to

638
00:30:17,262 --> 00:30:20,421
Speaker 2: ask him about his sex life endlessly right now, like that,

639
00:30:20,742 --> 00:30:27,622
Speaker 2: for he's always been very very private about what's actually.

640
00:30:25,661 --> 00:30:26,782
Speaker 1: Because I didn't read it that way.

641
00:30:26,782 --> 00:30:32,222
Speaker 3: That's so interesting everyone who releases a sex toy of like, firstly,

642
00:30:32,582 --> 00:30:36,702
Speaker 3: you proclaim yourself as sort of sex positive in some way,

643
00:30:36,742 --> 00:30:39,582
Speaker 3: and has opened talking about pleasure and orgasms and all that.

644
00:30:39,582 --> 00:30:41,302
Speaker 2: Kind of which has been part of his brand and

645
00:30:41,702 --> 00:30:44,582
Speaker 2: very much part of the whole you know, Watermelon Sugar

646
00:30:44,622 --> 00:30:47,661
Speaker 2: Era was all about sex and you know, queer sex

647
00:30:47,742 --> 00:30:51,102
Speaker 2: and gender ambiguous sex, and so he's that's part of

648
00:30:51,142 --> 00:30:52,902
Speaker 2: his brand. But I'm kind of interested that he wants

649
00:30:52,982 --> 00:30:54,502
Speaker 2: to keep it that way, do you know what I mean?

650
00:30:54,661 --> 00:30:57,382
Speaker 3: Is this the first man we can think of his

651
00:30:57,502 --> 00:31:00,942
Speaker 3: launched a female sex toy? Because we've got Gwyneth, We've

652
00:31:00,982 --> 00:31:05,421
Speaker 3: got Cara Delavin, Dakota Johnson, Lily Allen, They've all moved

653
00:31:05,462 --> 00:31:09,262
Speaker 3: into the sexual wellness market in Australia. We've got female examples,

654
00:31:09,342 --> 00:31:12,462
Speaker 3: but I can't think of any men Jesse.

655
00:31:12,542 --> 00:31:16,102
Speaker 1: In twenty sixteen, Motley Crue launched a range of sex

656
00:31:16,142 --> 00:31:16,742
Speaker 1: toys No.

657
00:31:16,782 --> 00:31:18,542
Speaker 2: Thank you only for use in the shower?

658
00:31:19,982 --> 00:31:25,422
Speaker 1: Would you want a Harry vibrator? I think about him anyway.

659
00:31:25,542 --> 00:31:27,702
Speaker 1: It's just like joining those twos.

660
00:31:27,502 --> 00:31:31,022
Speaker 3: There he is. It all depends And this celebrity endorsement

661
00:31:31,022 --> 00:31:34,622
Speaker 3: thing is interesting because even in the beauty context, the

662
00:31:34,622 --> 00:31:37,342
Speaker 3: product being good is what sells product, right. They get

663
00:31:37,422 --> 00:31:39,941
Speaker 3: access to work with really really and it sounds like

664
00:31:39,982 --> 00:31:41,822
Speaker 3: he's done it really well in terms of working with

665
00:31:41,862 --> 00:31:43,142
Speaker 3: people who know what they're talking about.

666
00:31:43,342 --> 00:31:46,742
Speaker 1: It probably had a bad orgasm though, like really in terms.

667
00:31:46,582 --> 00:31:50,181
Speaker 2: Of the bar's pretty low for it vibrator orgasms, you

668
00:31:50,222 --> 00:31:52,262
Speaker 2: know what I mean? Want you'd want to make sure

669
00:31:52,302 --> 00:31:54,542
Speaker 2: you're the one with your name on it was clearing

670
00:31:54,582 --> 00:31:54,902
Speaker 2: that bar.

671
00:31:55,022 --> 00:31:56,702
Speaker 1: It's a bit of a moot point because it's around

672
00:31:56,742 --> 00:31:59,382
Speaker 1: one hundred dollars if you could buy one. But when

673
00:31:59,422 --> 00:32:02,822
Speaker 1: I went on the website to research, it said no

674
00:32:02,862 --> 00:32:04,222
Speaker 1: products available.

675
00:32:04,062 --> 00:32:06,662
Speaker 2: Against jam all over again. No, I think it's sold out.

676
00:32:06,942 --> 00:32:09,062
Speaker 3: No, no, no, they're thinking that eventually it will be

677
00:32:09,142 --> 00:32:13,462
Speaker 3: available for Australians. Just oh okay, after the break. An

678
00:32:13,502 --> 00:32:16,941
Speaker 3: app called Tea is changing the way women date and

679
00:32:16,982 --> 00:32:19,702
Speaker 3: the way men are held accountable. Is it a safety

680
00:32:19,742 --> 00:32:22,902
Speaker 3: tool or digital vigilantism gone too far?

681
00:32:23,462 --> 00:32:27,182
Speaker 2: One unlimited out loud access. We drop episodes every Tuesday

682
00:32:27,222 --> 00:32:31,302
Speaker 2: and Thursday exclusively for Mamma Mia subscribers. Follow the link

683
00:32:31,342 --> 00:32:33,062
Speaker 2: of the show notes to get us in your ears

684
00:32:33,342 --> 00:32:36,062
Speaker 2: five days a week. And a huge thank you to

685
00:32:36,262 --> 00:32:40,222
Speaker 2: all our current subscribers.

686
00:32:41,862 --> 00:32:45,542
Speaker 3: A new app called Tea has given way to a thorny,

687
00:32:45,782 --> 00:32:50,502
Speaker 3: very uncomfortable debate about dating, privacy and gender dynamics. So

688
00:32:50,582 --> 00:32:54,661
Speaker 3: this tea app launched in twenty twenty two, twenty twenty

689
00:32:54,661 --> 00:32:57,981
Speaker 3: three around then, but it has since boomed. It is

690
00:32:57,982 --> 00:32:59,782
Speaker 3: the number one app on the App Store in the

691
00:32:59,902 --> 00:33:02,262
Speaker 3: US for this month. It's not yet in Australia, and

692
00:33:02,262 --> 00:33:04,342
Speaker 3: we'll go into why it might not work in Australia

693
00:33:04,382 --> 00:33:06,902
Speaker 3: so much. But here's what it does. It is a

694
00:33:07,102 --> 00:33:11,822
Speaker 3: women only, anonymous app where users review, worn about or

695
00:33:11,862 --> 00:33:15,342
Speaker 3: share stories and photos of men that they have dated

696
00:33:15,782 --> 00:33:18,342
Speaker 3: or that they planned to meet up with. So, for example,

697
00:33:18,622 --> 00:33:20,542
Speaker 3: if I have matched with someone on a dating app,

698
00:33:20,902 --> 00:33:23,182
Speaker 3: I want to know whether it's worth going on a date,

699
00:33:23,222 --> 00:33:25,181
Speaker 3: I might go on to this search his name. I

700
00:33:25,222 --> 00:33:28,941
Speaker 3: can reverse search an image, so that might catch someone

701
00:33:28,942 --> 00:33:33,062
Speaker 3: who changes their name, and I will get reviews which

702
00:33:33,142 --> 00:33:37,542
Speaker 3: might be red flags, green flags. It's linked to things

703
00:33:37,582 --> 00:33:40,022
Speaker 3: like criminal records to all that kind of stuff, and

704
00:33:40,022 --> 00:33:41,702
Speaker 3: it'll give you like a background check.

705
00:33:41,782 --> 00:33:44,702
Speaker 1: So it's like Yelp but for men, but for men exactly.

706
00:33:45,422 --> 00:33:49,062
Speaker 3: The creator, Sean Cook, was inspired by his mother's negative

707
00:33:49,102 --> 00:33:52,742
Speaker 3: experiences with online dating and catfishing, and basically he thought,

708
00:33:53,142 --> 00:33:56,502
Speaker 3: what the world needs is the largest group chat about dating.

709
00:33:57,062 --> 00:33:59,661
Speaker 3: It's similar to that Facebook group Are we dating the

710
00:33:59,702 --> 00:34:01,102
Speaker 3: same guy? That went viral?

711
00:34:01,222 --> 00:34:03,661
Speaker 2: Which does exist in Australia certainly did.

712
00:34:03,862 --> 00:34:07,622
Speaker 3: It's the modern day equivalent to Whisper networks. So what's

713
00:34:07,622 --> 00:34:11,261
Speaker 3: the problem, Well, a few things. The first is that

714
00:34:11,302 --> 00:34:14,542
Speaker 3: there is an identity verification process for the female users

715
00:34:14,622 --> 00:34:18,261
Speaker 3: right that just this weekend was hacked. So in order

716
00:34:18,302 --> 00:34:19,502
Speaker 3: to go on, I think you've got to have your

717
00:34:19,542 --> 00:34:23,022
Speaker 3: ad a photo and then you're able to use the app.

718
00:34:23,302 --> 00:34:25,982
Speaker 1: When you say used, do you mean you're able to

719
00:34:26,022 --> 00:34:28,022
Speaker 1: post on it or you're just able to see it?

720
00:34:28,342 --> 00:34:28,662
Speaker 3: Both?

721
00:34:28,822 --> 00:34:29,142
Speaker 1: Okay?

722
00:34:29,181 --> 00:34:31,901
Speaker 3: In order to even get onto the app right now,

723
00:34:32,102 --> 00:34:37,661
Speaker 3: thousands of members, images, posts, and comments were exposed. And

724
00:34:37,902 --> 00:34:40,982
Speaker 3: if you think about the context of domestic violence or

725
00:34:41,022 --> 00:34:45,102
Speaker 3: potentially having been with an abuser, and that person then

726
00:34:45,142 --> 00:34:47,941
Speaker 3: has access to things you may have said about them,

727
00:34:48,462 --> 00:34:52,821
Speaker 3: like privileged informent, like that's really quite highly dangerous. The

728
00:34:52,862 --> 00:34:56,582
Speaker 3: other really significant issue is, as James Grieg put it,

729
00:34:56,582 --> 00:35:01,142
Speaker 3: it's digital vigilantism, the TikTok equivalent of a citizen's arrest.

730
00:35:01,661 --> 00:35:04,862
Speaker 3: It's one thing if you're a legitimate scammer or criminal,

731
00:35:04,902 --> 00:35:08,622
Speaker 3: and that is a portion, But do you deserve to

732
00:35:08,661 --> 00:35:11,741
Speaker 3: be publicly shamed or have your reputation impacted because you

733
00:35:11,822 --> 00:35:16,062
Speaker 3: ghosted someone once? There's a big question here about privacy.

734
00:35:16,622 --> 00:35:19,222
Speaker 3: So one star review on the app speaks.

735
00:35:18,781 --> 00:35:20,502
Speaker 1: And you also have no right of reply.

736
00:35:20,462 --> 00:35:22,821
Speaker 3: No, because you can't even get on there and you

737
00:35:22,862 --> 00:35:25,342
Speaker 3: can't screenshot on the app, so if I saw something

738
00:35:25,422 --> 00:35:28,102
Speaker 3: about a friend, I can't even screenshot it and send

739
00:35:28,142 --> 00:35:30,261
Speaker 3: it to them. There's a one star review on the

740
00:35:30,261 --> 00:35:33,261
Speaker 3: app where someone is talking about a friend saying he

741
00:35:33,382 --> 00:35:36,422
Speaker 3: decided not to pursue things romantically with a woman. That

742
00:35:36,462 --> 00:35:38,701
Speaker 3: woman posted on the app, and as a result of

743
00:35:38,701 --> 00:35:42,062
Speaker 3: that review, he'd been turned down on a bunch of dates.

744
00:35:42,102 --> 00:35:44,982
Speaker 3: It's really impacted his mental health and now he avoids

745
00:35:45,062 --> 00:35:46,062
Speaker 3: dating altogether.

746
00:35:46,982 --> 00:35:50,982
Speaker 1: So it's like the scarlet letter, Like it's like public shaming.

747
00:35:51,342 --> 00:35:53,142
Speaker 3: Yeah, what do we think? What do we think of

748
00:35:53,142 --> 00:35:55,102
Speaker 3: an app like this? Do you think that it has utility?

749
00:35:55,142 --> 00:35:58,341
Speaker 3: I think probably in the Australian context. There's a big

750
00:35:58,422 --> 00:36:02,342
Speaker 3: question about defamation right, Like it feels dangerous for the

751
00:36:02,382 --> 00:36:06,341
Speaker 3: women posting, because if you say something about someone that

752
00:36:06,382 --> 00:36:08,861
Speaker 3: could be seen as defamatory, then that starts to get

753
00:36:08,862 --> 00:36:11,102
Speaker 3: a bit dangerous. And the US has very different lads

754
00:36:11,142 --> 00:36:12,542
Speaker 3: to us. Holly, what do you reckon?

755
00:36:12,741 --> 00:36:16,142
Speaker 2: I think it's great. I think that women exchanging information

756
00:36:16,302 --> 00:36:18,301
Speaker 2: like this is really important. It's one of the few

757
00:36:18,342 --> 00:36:21,861
Speaker 2: things that can protect them. The biggest enemy of this

758
00:36:22,022 --> 00:36:24,622
Speaker 2: is how famous it's become. All of a sudden because

759
00:36:24,661 --> 00:36:27,261
Speaker 2: you know, you're saying, well, the security was breached, that's

760
00:36:27,302 --> 00:36:29,221
Speaker 2: going to happen, right, Like that's going to happen with

761
00:36:29,261 --> 00:36:30,781
Speaker 2: all kinds of apps. I don't think that means it

762
00:36:30,781 --> 00:36:33,861
Speaker 2: shouldn't exist because it's security was breached. I think the

763
00:36:33,862 --> 00:36:36,742
Speaker 2: problem is is the more well known it is, because

764
00:36:36,741 --> 00:36:39,821
Speaker 2: the fact is popular proves that the use case is real,

765
00:36:39,982 --> 00:36:42,821
Speaker 2: that women needed it, wanted it, and use it right,

766
00:36:43,502 --> 00:36:46,622
Speaker 2: and so that's one thing. But then now it scales

767
00:36:46,822 --> 00:36:49,022
Speaker 2: up and more and more people get to know about it,

768
00:36:49,102 --> 00:36:51,941
Speaker 2: then people who have other motives for getting into it

769
00:36:52,022 --> 00:36:53,261
Speaker 2: are going to try and get into it.

770
00:36:53,542 --> 00:36:56,942
Speaker 1: When you say the fact that people wanted it proves

771
00:36:57,022 --> 00:36:59,301
Speaker 1: the use case for it, I'm not saying there's no

772
00:36:59,422 --> 00:37:03,022
Speaker 1: use case for it. But just because people want something

773
00:37:03,982 --> 00:37:07,821
Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily mean that it's a good thing or that

774
00:37:07,862 --> 00:37:10,542
Speaker 1: it's legitimate. So in response to you know, there are

775
00:37:10,582 --> 00:37:13,222
Speaker 1: all these sort of Reddit threads and men's rights groups

776
00:37:13,221 --> 00:37:16,062
Speaker 1: saying that the tea app needs to be deleted and

777
00:37:16,142 --> 00:37:20,902
Speaker 1: taken down. In response, another app was launched called Tea Born.

778
00:37:21,221 --> 00:37:24,261
Speaker 1: It says get the tea on anyone, check before you date,

779
00:37:24,422 --> 00:37:28,622
Speaker 1: so you could basically leave gossip about anybody, male or female.

780
00:37:29,142 --> 00:37:31,462
Speaker 1: And the Tea Born app was taken out of the

781
00:37:31,741 --> 00:37:35,062
Speaker 1: app store by Apple because users were posting revenge porn

782
00:37:35,181 --> 00:37:38,261
Speaker 1: of women against women. How would we feel if this

783
00:37:38,422 --> 00:37:42,542
Speaker 1: was reversed? So suddenly you can have an app and

784
00:37:42,862 --> 00:37:44,982
Speaker 1: only men are allowed to comment on it and it's

785
00:37:45,022 --> 00:37:49,421
Speaker 1: about women, and suddenly men can go, she was a slut,

786
00:37:49,781 --> 00:37:51,022
Speaker 1: she was this, she was that.

787
00:37:51,142 --> 00:37:52,902
Speaker 3: Are we cool about that too?

788
00:37:52,382 --> 00:37:57,221
Speaker 2: She was a psychlobe? She stored me that this information

789
00:37:57,422 --> 00:37:59,502
Speaker 2: is going to be exchanged anyway, Do you know what

790
00:37:59,502 --> 00:38:01,901
Speaker 2: I mean? You can't stop people from saying what they

791
00:38:01,942 --> 00:38:06,022
Speaker 2: say about people. But this is actually very useful in

792
00:38:06,102 --> 00:38:07,342
Speaker 2: lots of situations.

793
00:38:07,622 --> 00:38:09,982
Speaker 3: I don't think that this information, I don't think it

794
00:38:09,982 --> 00:38:12,261
Speaker 3: would be would have necessarily been shared. So for example,

795
00:38:12,382 --> 00:38:14,861
Speaker 3: there's a tool that's a phone number look up and

796
00:38:14,902 --> 00:38:18,462
Speaker 3: it helps verify if someone has a hidden marriage or

797
00:38:18,502 --> 00:38:21,421
Speaker 3: a concerning history with that phone number. So you could

798
00:38:21,462 --> 00:38:23,502
Speaker 3: go in and go, is this going anywaight? And look,

799
00:38:23,582 --> 00:38:25,062
Speaker 3: maybe he is? And that what I.

800
00:38:25,022 --> 00:38:27,741
Speaker 2: Mean when I say the use case is just talk

801
00:38:27,822 --> 00:38:31,022
Speaker 2: to some women who are using dating apps regularly and

802
00:38:31,062 --> 00:38:33,582
Speaker 2: they are often getting calls from people going I think

803
00:38:33,622 --> 00:38:36,181
Speaker 2: you're dating my boy like this is real, It's not

804
00:38:36,221 --> 00:38:39,381
Speaker 2: an imagined situation. And the thing is is that one

805
00:38:39,422 --> 00:38:41,382
Speaker 2: thing that I mean, as you say, Jesse, it's complicated

806
00:38:41,382 --> 00:38:43,622
Speaker 2: whether or not it could be here. But women cannot

807
00:38:43,701 --> 00:38:46,502
Speaker 2: use public platforms like Facebook, and you can argue that

808
00:38:46,502 --> 00:38:49,502
Speaker 2: absolutely they should not be able to to claim that

809
00:38:49,542 --> 00:38:51,862
Speaker 2: they were abused by somebody because they will get slapped

810
00:38:51,902 --> 00:38:53,861
Speaker 2: by defamation. And there are lots of cases of that

811
00:38:53,942 --> 00:38:56,582
Speaker 2: where a woman in Australia tried to warn the new

812
00:38:56,622 --> 00:38:58,861
Speaker 2: partner of a man who was abusing her and he

813
00:38:58,942 --> 00:39:02,181
Speaker 2: immediately sued her, and that happens like it happens a lot.

814
00:39:02,302 --> 00:39:04,462
Speaker 2: So I'm not saying that this is perfect. I'm not

815
00:39:04,502 --> 00:39:06,901
Speaker 2: saying it isn't open to abuse. But what I am

816
00:39:06,942 --> 00:39:09,861
Speaker 2: saying is I can see the appeal. I can see

817
00:39:09,862 --> 00:39:12,102
Speaker 2: why women want to use it, and I can see

818
00:39:12,102 --> 00:39:13,662
Speaker 2: why it's legitimate and lots of ways.

819
00:39:13,862 --> 00:39:17,462
Speaker 1: There was a woman called Moira Donnegan. She started and

820
00:39:17,502 --> 00:39:20,622
Speaker 1: created a Google spreadsheet around the time of Me Too

821
00:39:21,302 --> 00:39:25,422
Speaker 1: called Shitty Media Men, which circulated like wildfire, as you

822
00:39:25,462 --> 00:39:29,221
Speaker 1: can imagine, and it was circulated among women who worked

823
00:39:29,221 --> 00:39:30,622
Speaker 1: in the media, and it was exactly what you say

824
00:39:30,902 --> 00:39:32,942
Speaker 1: it was about this whisper network, and there were you

825
00:39:32,982 --> 00:39:38,582
Speaker 1: could anonymously list any man and then his transgressions and

826
00:39:38,622 --> 00:39:43,902
Speaker 1: these ranged from allegations of rape to just it was

827
00:39:43,902 --> 00:39:47,582
Speaker 1: a bit creepy, Yeah, felt a bit creepy, or stood

828
00:39:47,582 --> 00:39:50,181
Speaker 1: me up for dinner or whatever. And so that ended

829
00:39:50,221 --> 00:39:53,661
Speaker 1: up being part of a huge legal case when some

830
00:39:53,701 --> 00:39:56,382
Speaker 1: of those men said, firstly, what was written about me

831
00:39:56,902 --> 00:39:59,261
Speaker 1: was not true and it was never proven in court,

832
00:39:59,261 --> 00:40:02,502
Speaker 1: and these were allegations that were very serious and life ruining,

833
00:40:02,542 --> 00:40:05,462
Speaker 1: and some men did have their lives ruined and they

834
00:40:05,502 --> 00:40:08,821
Speaker 1: had no recourse. And what happened in the process of

835
00:40:08,822 --> 00:40:11,342
Speaker 1: that is that every woman, not just who added something

836
00:40:11,342 --> 00:40:14,341
Speaker 1: to that list, but every woman who received that list

837
00:40:14,342 --> 00:40:17,341
Speaker 1: and saw it was named and exposed as part of

838
00:40:17,382 --> 00:40:20,542
Speaker 1: this lawsuit. What I keep coming back to, and I

839
00:40:20,542 --> 00:40:22,902
Speaker 1: feel so uncomfortable about this, even though I do know

840
00:40:22,942 --> 00:40:24,982
Speaker 1: what you're saying in terms of someone who's got you know,

841
00:40:25,062 --> 00:40:29,261
Speaker 1: around DV or around if they're married, but that's sort

842
00:40:29,261 --> 00:40:32,502
Speaker 1: of maybe the ten percent. The ninety percent is other

843
00:40:32,622 --> 00:40:36,701
Speaker 1: stuff that's around not being a good person, or that's

844
00:40:36,902 --> 00:40:42,221
Speaker 1: more subjective. I keep thinking about when public commentary was

845
00:40:42,382 --> 00:40:47,661
Speaker 1: disconnected from identity. That's when things started to devolve in

846
00:40:47,741 --> 00:40:48,941
Speaker 1: the online world in terms.

847
00:40:49,022 --> 00:40:50,781
Speaker 3: So you're talking about the anonymity.

848
00:40:50,382 --> 00:40:52,822
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's the anonymity as soon as people were able

849
00:40:52,862 --> 00:40:56,582
Speaker 1: to post anonymous comments, whether it's on an Instagram or Facebook,

850
00:40:56,582 --> 00:41:00,941
Speaker 1: cod anywhere on the internet. When you decouple identity from

851
00:41:01,221 --> 00:41:05,821
Speaker 1: accusations and commentary, that's where things can go really, really bad.

852
00:41:06,462 --> 00:41:06,701
Speaker 4: Yeah.

853
00:41:06,982 --> 00:41:09,221
Speaker 1: And I also understand that sometimes you're not in a

854
00:41:09,261 --> 00:41:11,502
Speaker 1: position to put your name to me.

855
00:41:11,701 --> 00:41:14,942
Speaker 2: You've never put your name. However, it also.

856
00:41:15,342 --> 00:41:18,701
Speaker 1: Is like, what if someone wrote something about your son,

857
00:41:18,822 --> 00:41:21,381
Speaker 1: or your husband, or your friend or your brother, and

858
00:41:21,422 --> 00:41:24,062
Speaker 1: they had no recourse, They don't know who did it.

859
00:41:24,781 --> 00:41:28,062
Speaker 1: They say it wasn't true. This was perhaps this person's

860
00:41:28,102 --> 00:41:30,821
Speaker 1: either subjective view or it's someone who was just really

861
00:41:30,862 --> 00:41:34,582
Speaker 1: pissed off and wanted to wreck him. I find that

862
00:41:34,622 --> 00:41:35,582
Speaker 1: incredibly just so.

863
00:41:35,902 --> 00:41:38,862
Speaker 3: On the one hand, I think that this is probably

864
00:41:39,181 --> 00:41:42,502
Speaker 3: filling a hole that has been left by very imperfect

865
00:41:42,902 --> 00:41:48,702
Speaker 3: legal system that leaves women with no path to justice

866
00:41:48,701 --> 00:41:49,102
Speaker 3: a lot.

867
00:41:48,982 --> 00:41:50,941
Speaker 2: Of the time. So that's the thing is that when

868
00:41:50,982 --> 00:41:53,661
Speaker 2: people say, but none of this stuff has been proven. Yeah,

869
00:41:53,741 --> 00:41:55,822
Speaker 2: do you know how difficult it is for any woman

870
00:41:55,902 --> 00:41:58,261
Speaker 2: to get herself believed, never mind all the way through

871
00:41:58,261 --> 00:42:00,102
Speaker 2: a legal process. So what are they supposed to do

872
00:42:00,142 --> 00:42:03,542
Speaker 2: exactly with this information that they have? That women exchanging

873
00:42:03,582 --> 00:42:08,102
Speaker 2: information has always been incredibly important for women to protect themselves.

874
00:42:08,221 --> 00:42:11,221
Speaker 3: So if you are the victim of sexual assault, which

875
00:42:11,261 --> 00:42:13,741
Speaker 3: we know like one in three women are, if you

876
00:42:13,942 --> 00:42:17,661
Speaker 3: are the victim of a scammer, like we have all

877
00:42:17,701 --> 00:42:20,021
Speaker 3: these like who the hell is Hamish? And Dirty John

878
00:42:20,062 --> 00:42:23,301
Speaker 3: and all these stories about men who have changed names

879
00:42:23,302 --> 00:42:27,981
Speaker 3: and identities and you know, robbed women of so much

880
00:42:28,022 --> 00:42:30,502
Speaker 3: of their life savings, you kind of go, well, if

881
00:42:30,542 --> 00:42:33,542
Speaker 3: it can prevent that, then I see it as something useful.

882
00:42:33,542 --> 00:42:37,062
Speaker 3: And I think that this exists and is popular because

883
00:42:37,102 --> 00:42:40,142
Speaker 3: of an otherwise very big gap, which is that women

884
00:42:40,261 --> 00:42:43,102
Speaker 3: go and whether it's restraining orders or whatever, they then

885
00:42:43,382 --> 00:42:46,902
Speaker 3: often not listen to and the legal system is too difficult.

886
00:42:47,062 --> 00:42:50,062
Speaker 1: How is it not also at the same time, character assassination,

887
00:42:50,261 --> 00:42:53,582
Speaker 1: Like I understand people going on thinking, oh, I'm not

888
00:42:53,622 --> 00:42:55,421
Speaker 1: sure about this guy, or maybe you want to check

889
00:42:55,462 --> 00:42:58,341
Speaker 1: has he got any DV convictions? Is he married? I

890
00:42:58,422 --> 00:43:01,221
Speaker 1: understand all of that. Before a date, what I would

891
00:43:01,261 --> 00:43:04,261
Speaker 1: do is go and just find the tea, Like what

892
00:43:04,302 --> 00:43:06,381
Speaker 1: are other women say about that, But then.

893
00:43:06,302 --> 00:43:07,981
Speaker 2: It's up to you what you do with that tea.

894
00:43:08,062 --> 00:43:09,661
Speaker 2: So when you said you know, there's a world of

895
00:43:09,701 --> 00:43:11,741
Speaker 2: difference between ghosting and abuse, of course there is. So

896
00:43:11,781 --> 00:43:12,982
Speaker 2: if I go on and I check him and it

897
00:43:13,062 --> 00:43:15,341
Speaker 2: just says he ghosted me once the way that my

898
00:43:15,462 --> 00:43:17,901
Speaker 2: mind would work, and we all know many many women

899
00:43:17,942 --> 00:43:19,542
Speaker 2: in our lives to do the stugga, Well he ghosted

900
00:43:19,542 --> 00:43:21,102
Speaker 2: you because he wasn't that into you. He'll totally be

901
00:43:21,102 --> 00:43:24,142
Speaker 2: into me. You know what, I don't. It's not mandatory,

902
00:43:24,221 --> 00:43:25,301
Speaker 2: do you know what I mean? Like, I don't. I

903
00:43:25,342 --> 00:43:28,342
Speaker 2: think that if you're opting in to search for somebody

904
00:43:28,422 --> 00:43:31,661
Speaker 2: who's given you a reason to feel a bit uncomfortable

905
00:43:31,741 --> 00:43:34,382
Speaker 2: or uneasy with the more you've had really bad experiences,

906
00:43:34,462 --> 00:43:37,102
Speaker 2: and you find something, then it's kind of up to

907
00:43:37,142 --> 00:43:39,622
Speaker 2: you what you do with that, and also how seriously

908
00:43:39,661 --> 00:43:39,941
Speaker 2: you take.

909
00:43:40,062 --> 00:43:43,422
Speaker 3: I think there is a question though about collateral damage

910
00:43:43,741 --> 00:43:47,142
Speaker 3: and when the question of anonymity, And I never want

911
00:43:47,181 --> 00:43:48,981
Speaker 3: to accuse women of lying because we know that false

912
00:43:49,022 --> 00:43:52,701
Speaker 3: reporting of crimes like these where women make an allegation

913
00:43:52,741 --> 00:43:55,422
Speaker 3: of sexual assault or domestic violence against a man is

914
00:43:56,062 --> 00:43:59,381
Speaker 3: really percentage wise, is very very rare when you've got

915
00:43:59,382 --> 00:44:03,822
Speaker 3: the element of anonymity in there. And if you hate

916
00:44:04,382 --> 00:44:08,861
Speaker 3: your boss, if you hate your ex boyfriend, and there

917
00:44:08,942 --> 00:44:11,662
Speaker 3: is something you can do to make their life harder,

918
00:44:11,781 --> 00:44:14,261
Speaker 3: you wouldn't go on there and say they ghosted you, right,

919
00:44:14,382 --> 00:44:17,542
Speaker 3: You would say the absolute top thing, which then dilutes

920
00:44:17,582 --> 00:44:21,622
Speaker 3: the legitimacy of the real accusations. And so I guess

921
00:44:21,781 --> 00:44:23,701
Speaker 3: I worry about that because if I went on I

922
00:44:23,701 --> 00:44:25,261
Speaker 3: was about to go on a date and it said

923
00:44:26,062 --> 00:44:28,301
Speaker 3: it was one review and one red flag, and it

924
00:44:28,382 --> 00:44:31,861
Speaker 3: said he was someone who physically assaulted someone, I would

925
00:44:31,942 --> 00:44:33,502
Speaker 3: not go on a date with that man. And so

926
00:44:33,582 --> 00:44:35,381
Speaker 3: that man has been marked, and.

927
00:44:35,342 --> 00:44:37,021
Speaker 1: I don't think a lot of people would be going

928
00:44:37,062 --> 00:44:39,901
Speaker 1: there to write positive reviews. So you know what we

929
00:44:39,902 --> 00:44:41,861
Speaker 1: always say about don't read the comments is that the

930
00:44:41,862 --> 00:44:45,022
Speaker 1: people who leave comments about anything are most likely to

931
00:44:45,022 --> 00:44:47,261
Speaker 1: be on the extremes. And usually the more angry and

932
00:44:47,261 --> 00:44:49,341
Speaker 1: pissed off you are, the more likely you are leave

933
00:44:49,342 --> 00:44:52,462
Speaker 1: a comment, So you can get a very skewed view

934
00:44:52,862 --> 00:44:55,622
Speaker 1: of either a situation or a story or a person.

935
00:44:55,862 --> 00:44:57,901
Speaker 2: But then the vast majority of men wouldn't be on it,

936
00:44:58,142 --> 00:44:59,622
Speaker 2: do you know what I mean? Like the guy, you've

937
00:44:59,741 --> 00:45:02,261
Speaker 2: searched for Bob. Bob's not there because Bob's not done

938
00:45:02,302 --> 00:45:03,542
Speaker 2: anything to piss anyone off.

939
00:45:03,661 --> 00:45:06,341
Speaker 3: Like it's fine, Yeah, I know, But can you see

940
00:45:06,342 --> 00:45:07,462
Speaker 3: a world in which.

941
00:45:07,701 --> 00:45:09,542
Speaker 2: Can I its abused apps?

942
00:45:09,942 --> 00:45:10,142
Speaker 4: You do?

943
00:45:10,181 --> 00:45:13,341
Speaker 2: I think just because some things can be abused by

944
00:45:13,342 --> 00:45:17,301
Speaker 2: bad actors, that they shouldn't exist. No out loud is

945
00:45:17,342 --> 00:45:20,221
Speaker 2: that's all we've got time for. Except we promised you

946
00:45:20,422 --> 00:45:24,222
Speaker 2: our top fives and the reasons why for our favorite

947
00:45:24,221 --> 00:45:27,182
Speaker 2: Australian songs of all time. We all forgot to vote

948
00:45:27,261 --> 00:45:30,342
Speaker 2: in the Triple Jist one hundreds and this is consider

949
00:45:30,382 --> 00:45:32,542
Speaker 2: this our late ballots. Yeah, who wants to lead?

950
00:45:32,862 --> 00:45:33,862
Speaker 1: Jesse? You go first?

951
00:45:34,022 --> 00:45:37,661
Speaker 3: Okay, I'm gonna go Chains by Tina Arena because I

952
00:45:37,661 --> 00:45:38,422
Speaker 3: feel she was robbed.

953
00:45:38,622 --> 00:45:40,422
Speaker 1: I'm so glad you say that because I just forgot

954
00:45:40,422 --> 00:45:41,182
Speaker 1: about it. You forgot?

955
00:45:41,221 --> 00:45:41,662
Speaker 3: That's okay?

956
00:45:41,781 --> 00:45:42,542
Speaker 2: Is that number five?

957
00:45:42,582 --> 00:45:43,381
Speaker 3: That's my number five?

958
00:45:43,502 --> 00:45:43,661
Speaker 1: Yes?

959
00:45:44,142 --> 00:45:46,782
Speaker 3: Number four. I'm going to go with holding On by Flume.

960
00:45:47,022 --> 00:45:48,102
Speaker 3: I really like Flume.

961
00:45:48,302 --> 00:45:50,582
Speaker 2: I like was in there a couple of times. Tell

962
00:45:50,622 --> 00:45:51,301
Speaker 2: me why.

963
00:45:51,582 --> 00:45:54,582
Speaker 3: I just think it's like, it's such a good party song.

964
00:45:55,102 --> 00:45:58,222
Speaker 3: I love when I'm overseas and I hear Ozzie Music

965
00:45:58,342 --> 00:45:59,901
Speaker 3: and I just have been traveling and heard that song

966
00:45:59,942 --> 00:46:04,262
Speaker 3: about me so happy. Number three I'm going to go truly, madly,

967
00:46:04,302 --> 00:46:06,142
Speaker 3: deeply by not.

968
00:46:06,181 --> 00:46:08,862
Speaker 2: Enough Savage Garden and not High Enough.

969
00:46:09,022 --> 00:46:10,102
Speaker 3: I loved Average Garden.

970
00:46:10,142 --> 00:46:11,341
Speaker 1: I just love them.

971
00:46:11,462 --> 00:46:14,982
Speaker 3: Number two Torn by Nataliembroler. Yes, it's just that is

972
00:46:15,022 --> 00:46:18,941
Speaker 3: on like my list of such a banger. That film

973
00:46:18,942 --> 00:46:22,622
Speaker 3: clip her haircut, it was a moment. Number one Better

974
00:46:22,701 --> 00:46:24,862
Speaker 3: Be Home Soon by Crowded. I think it's one of

975
00:46:24,862 --> 00:46:26,701
Speaker 3: the best songs ever. That's Wow.

976
00:46:26,902 --> 00:46:28,182
Speaker 1: We've got a lot of common ground.

977
00:46:29,422 --> 00:46:31,221
Speaker 2: I do too. I think her top fives are going

978
00:46:31,261 --> 00:46:32,142
Speaker 2: to be quite similar.

979
00:46:32,342 --> 00:46:33,661
Speaker 3: Okay, Maya, what's your top five?

980
00:46:33,741 --> 00:46:39,341
Speaker 1: Okay? I did have six, and I had Natalie and

981
00:46:39,342 --> 00:46:42,662
Speaker 1: Broulier Torn, but I want to tie it with chains.

982
00:46:42,741 --> 00:46:44,381
Speaker 1: I know I sound like I'm just copying you. That's

983
00:46:44,382 --> 00:46:47,622
Speaker 1: because I am. Okay, all right. My next song is

984
00:46:47,661 --> 00:46:51,221
Speaker 1: in an excess song and it is not that one.

985
00:46:51,502 --> 00:46:54,382
Speaker 1: It is either Disappear or New Sensation.

986
00:46:55,382 --> 00:46:57,741
Speaker 3: I couldn't do wrong about that.

987
00:46:58,181 --> 00:47:02,502
Speaker 2: Number four either, don't If there's gonna be an excess

988
00:47:02,542 --> 00:47:06,021
Speaker 2: song in there, shouldn't it be did a little little litter?

989
00:47:06,062 --> 00:47:12,542
Speaker 2: Shouldn't it be that one sexy moment.

990
00:47:12,582 --> 00:47:14,901
Speaker 3: Okay, what's like all of them? What do you get? Okay,

991
00:47:14,902 --> 00:47:16,262
Speaker 3: if you get extra, I get extra.

992
00:47:17,382 --> 00:47:20,102
Speaker 1: Don't dream. It's over crowded house, but also better be Home.

993
00:47:20,142 --> 00:47:22,302
Speaker 3: Better Homes, a better song than I would.

994
00:47:22,221 --> 00:47:24,861
Speaker 1: Like this Top five, My order is a little bit

995
00:47:24,862 --> 00:47:26,701
Speaker 1: fucked up. But then I'm going to say, am I

996
00:47:26,701 --> 00:47:28,542
Speaker 1: ever going to see your face again? By The Angels?

997
00:47:28,661 --> 00:47:31,462
Speaker 1: And I thought about what you said. Whole about that

998
00:47:31,661 --> 00:47:34,142
Speaker 1: is my youth, you know? So many of these are

999
00:47:34,142 --> 00:47:37,341
Speaker 1: the pub songs that I didn't go to pubs, but

1000
00:47:37,382 --> 00:47:39,902
Speaker 1: that I danced to your parties. Then I'm going to

1001
00:47:39,982 --> 00:47:43,902
Speaker 1: say Midnight Oil, a Power and the Passion. Oh yes, okay,

1002
00:47:43,942 --> 00:47:47,622
Speaker 1: Midnight Oil, I mean, come on right. Beds of Burning

1003
00:47:47,661 --> 00:47:51,341
Speaker 1: is also great. But number one, believe this is even

1004
00:47:51,342 --> 00:47:53,622
Speaker 1: a contest. You're the Voice by John Ollen.

1005
00:47:53,902 --> 00:47:54,702
Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree.

1006
00:47:54,741 --> 00:47:59,022
Speaker 2: I love that song. Oh my god, that song that man,

1007
00:47:59,382 --> 00:48:03,022
Speaker 2: it was comic fifteen. I think I think it was.

1008
00:48:03,422 --> 00:48:04,861
Speaker 3: Okay, how about you, Holly five?

1009
00:48:05,582 --> 00:48:08,582
Speaker 2: I have reasons for all of mine. Number five, like

1010
00:48:08,701 --> 00:48:12,742
Speaker 2: you guys, It's Tall by Natalie Karaoke. It's my favorite

1011
00:48:12,822 --> 00:48:16,102
Speaker 2: karaoke so so one of them. Yes, the Moment in

1012
00:48:16,181 --> 00:48:17,821
Speaker 2: Time when she did that, I thought she was the

1013
00:48:17,862 --> 00:48:19,542
Speaker 2: most beautiful Maan I don't see and you know how

1014
00:48:19,542 --> 00:48:22,742
Speaker 2: you get obsessed with that. Number four, it is slightly newer.

1015
00:48:22,781 --> 00:48:25,741
Speaker 2: It's booster Seat by Spacey Jane. The reason why how

1016
00:48:25,781 --> 00:48:31,902
Speaker 2: does that because in my booster's seat it feels like anyway?

1017
00:48:31,942 --> 00:48:33,661
Speaker 2: The reason why I don't know that one me and

1018
00:48:33,701 --> 00:48:35,821
Speaker 2: my daughter sing it in the car. We have sung

1019
00:48:35,822 --> 00:48:37,982
Speaker 2: it in the car together for years now, so I

1020
00:48:38,062 --> 00:48:40,462
Speaker 2: know that even when I'm on my deathbed, if I

1021
00:48:40,462 --> 00:48:41,342
Speaker 2: hear that song.

1022
00:48:41,221 --> 00:48:45,342
Speaker 3: It will That makes me feel really happy, because yesterday

1023
00:48:45,422 --> 00:48:48,022
Speaker 3: Luna made me play police sirens in the car, so

1024
00:48:48,102 --> 00:48:50,662
Speaker 3: one day we may listen to real music to Spacey Jane.

1025
00:48:51,422 --> 00:48:54,142
Speaker 2: Number three. It's a Missy Higgins, but not one of

1026
00:48:54,181 --> 00:48:55,821
Speaker 2: the ones that made it in the Sound of White

1027
00:48:57,022 --> 00:49:03,301
Speaker 2: That yeah, exactly. The reason it's in my list is

1028
00:49:03,302 --> 00:49:05,861
Speaker 2: because every single time I hear it, no matter how

1029
00:49:05,902 --> 00:49:09,062
Speaker 2: many times I've heard it, it makes me cry losing

1030
00:49:09,142 --> 00:49:12,582
Speaker 2: someone fry my eyes out. Number two. How was this

1031
00:49:12,622 --> 00:49:15,142
Speaker 2: song not in the Hot one hundred Chandelier by see It?

1032
00:49:15,382 --> 00:49:15,701
Speaker 2: I know?

1033
00:49:15,982 --> 00:49:17,262
Speaker 3: I agree that is one.

1034
00:49:17,142 --> 00:49:19,862
Speaker 2: Of my favorite bangers of all time song.

1035
00:49:19,741 --> 00:49:21,701
Speaker 1: Throw your Arms around Me hunters and collectors.

1036
00:49:21,942 --> 00:49:23,542
Speaker 3: Yes, I wonder if that made it.

1037
00:49:23,542 --> 00:49:25,422
Speaker 2: But Chandelier is one of my pomp up songs and

1038
00:49:25,502 --> 00:49:27,142
Speaker 2: number one and it was in the top ten is

1039
00:49:27,142 --> 00:49:30,422
Speaker 2: how to Make Gravy by Paul Kelly. Because it for me,

1040
00:49:30,542 --> 00:49:33,981
Speaker 2: it's Christmas, it's family, it's our songs. So I think

1041
00:49:34,062 --> 00:49:38,261
Speaker 2: your songs are always going to be emotionally connected to something, and.

1042
00:49:38,342 --> 00:49:40,662
Speaker 3: Those I'd like to say that I would have pretty

1043
00:49:40,741 --> 00:49:42,382
Speaker 3: much all five Messy Higgins, but I felt like she

1044
00:49:42,422 --> 00:49:45,261
Speaker 3: did get acknowledged with Scar and also just a late entrance.

1045
00:49:45,302 --> 00:49:47,422
Speaker 3: I think Horses by darryl Oh that.

1046
00:49:47,342 --> 00:49:51,142
Speaker 1: Was on their tur That would have been Amelia Lester's

1047
00:49:51,142 --> 00:49:52,542
Speaker 1: top song. That was her wedding song.

1048
00:49:52,822 --> 00:49:57,221
Speaker 2: Really, all the Americans look really confused.

1049
00:49:57,422 --> 00:50:02,102
Speaker 1: Yes they were, they were confused. That is that chronic song.

1050
00:50:02,822 --> 00:50:04,422
Speaker 2: Okay, before we go, I think you have something to

1051
00:50:04,462 --> 00:50:05,821
Speaker 2: tell the out loud as me I do.

1052
00:50:05,942 --> 00:50:08,741
Speaker 1: We hear from so many of you who are struggling

1053
00:50:08,862 --> 00:50:11,181
Speaker 1: in your relations and ships, not just with your partners,

1054
00:50:11,181 --> 00:50:14,701
Speaker 1: but other family members, even friendships. So what we've decided

1055
00:50:14,701 --> 00:50:17,261
Speaker 1: at Muma Mia we are going to create a new podcast.

1056
00:50:17,342 --> 00:50:20,782
Speaker 1: We've been developing it for quite a while now, where

1057
00:50:20,781 --> 00:50:24,781
Speaker 1: real people with real problems can get real therapy. Our

1058
00:50:24,822 --> 00:50:29,501
Speaker 1: team are working with an incredible clinical psychotherapist. She's so great.

1059
00:50:29,502 --> 00:50:32,062
Speaker 1: She's like our version of Vesta Perell. You can love her.

1060
00:50:32,582 --> 00:50:35,421
Speaker 1: And so we're looking for pairs of all kinds of configurations,

1061
00:50:35,462 --> 00:50:39,142
Speaker 1: not just romantic couples, people who feel they'd benefit from

1062
00:50:39,142 --> 00:50:40,902
Speaker 1: the therapy process. So it might be a sibling, it

1063
00:50:40,982 --> 00:50:42,582
Speaker 1: might be a parent, it might be a child, it

1064
00:50:42,661 --> 00:50:46,261
Speaker 1: might be a colleague, a colleague for example. It's going

1065
00:50:46,342 --> 00:50:47,701
Speaker 1: to be so great. We are going to be the

1066
00:50:47,701 --> 00:50:51,702
Speaker 1: first episode. No we're not. It's such a rare opportunity

1067
00:50:52,022 --> 00:50:53,421
Speaker 1: to be able to be a fly on the wall

1068
00:50:53,462 --> 00:50:55,341
Speaker 1: for someone else's therapy. I just know that you're going

1069
00:50:55,382 --> 00:50:56,982
Speaker 1: to love this. So if it sounds like you or

1070
00:50:57,022 --> 00:50:58,741
Speaker 1: someone you know, we've popped a link in the show

1071
00:50:58,822 --> 00:51:01,341
Speaker 1: notes for you to apply or to send someone and

1072
00:51:01,382 --> 00:51:03,582
Speaker 1: we will be back in your ears tomorrow.

1073
00:51:03,822 --> 00:51:04,982
Speaker 2: Bye bye bye.

1074
00:51:05,741 --> 00:51:08,661
Speaker 3: Shout out to any Mum and mea subscribers listening. If

1075
00:51:08,701 --> 00:51:10,661
Speaker 3: you love the show and you want to support us,

1076
00:51:10,902 --> 00:51:13,821
Speaker 3: subscribing to MoMA Mia is the very best way to

1077
00:51:13,902 --> 00:51:16,302
Speaker 3: do so. There's a link in the episode description