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Speaker 1: You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast. Mumma Mea acknowledges

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Speaker 1: the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast

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Speaker 1: is recorded on.

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Speaker 2: Hi.

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Speaker 1: I'm Claire Murphy. This is Mumma MIA's twice daily news podcast,

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Speaker 1: The Quickie. Do you feel the cold?

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Speaker 3: Yours cold?

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Speaker 2: I am permanently freezing in winter.

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Speaker 1: I'm like a reptile.

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Speaker 2: I can't regulate.

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Speaker 1: If you are a woman and you have ever found

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Speaker 1: yourself in an argument with a man about how much

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Speaker 1: colder you feel when trying to gather enough blankets or

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Speaker 1: put on extra layers, then today is your day to

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Speaker 1: say I told you so, as we find out that yes,

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Speaker 1: there's a very real scientific reason for that, before we

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Speaker 1: find out why women are constantly freezing. Here's the latest

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Speaker 1: from the Quokie newsroom Friday, August two. Opening submissions will

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Speaker 1: begin in a WA court today as Liberal Senator Linda

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Speaker 1: reynolds defamation case against former staff of Britney Higgins gets underway.

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Speaker 1: Mediation has failed to resolve the case the former defense

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Speaker 1: minister suing Higgins over a series of social media posts

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Speaker 1: that Reynolds claims damaged her reputation. One of the posts

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Speaker 1: implies the Senator mishandled Higgins rape allegations against her former

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Speaker 1: colleague Bruce Lhman. Another suggests the Senator acted questionably during

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Speaker 1: Luhmann's criminal trial and engaged in a campaign of harassment

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Speaker 1: against Higgins. Miss higgins defense relies on truth Senator Reynolds's

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Speaker 1: claim she gave her extensive support after making the allegations.

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Speaker 1: As the seventeen year old who allegedly stabbed several children

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Speaker 1: and adults at a summer dance programme in the UK

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Speaker 1: is about to turn eighteen, the judge in the case

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Speaker 1: has released his identity. Axel Ruder Kubana has been charged

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Speaker 1: with the murder of three young girls, ten counts of

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Speaker 1: attempted murder and one of possessing a bladed article after

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Speaker 1: he allegedly attacked the children at a Taylor Swift inspired

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Speaker 1: dance class in the UK town of Southport. The local

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Speaker 1: hospital says two of the eight children who were admitted

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Speaker 1: have now been discharged. Five others remain in a stable condition.

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Speaker 1: The attack has led to two nights of violent riots,

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Speaker 1: sparked after online reports started to circulate that the suspect

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Speaker 1: was not born in the UK and was an asylum seeker,

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Speaker 1: both of which are not true. UK Prime Minister Kiir

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Speaker 1: Starmer says this is a deliberate, coordinated attack by far

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Speaker 1: right groups in the area, that this is not a

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Speaker 1: protest that has gotten out of hand, but a group

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Speaker 1: of individuals who are absolutely bent on violence. Despite relations

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Speaker 1: being at their lowest point in many years. The US

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Speaker 1: and Russia have completed their biggest ever prisoner exchange, with

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Speaker 1: journalist Evan Gershkevitch allowed to return home before his arrest

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Speaker 1: in twenty twenty three, Gerskvich, a reporter for The Wall

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Speaker 1: Street Journal, had written on social media that to report

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Speaker 1: on Russia is now also a regular practice of watching

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Speaker 1: people you know get locked away for years, a statement

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Speaker 1: that would become a reality for him too, as he

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Speaker 1: was charged with espionage. US marine Paul Wheelan was also

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Speaker 1: released after being detained four years ago accused of espionage.

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Speaker 1: Vladimir Karamutza, who wrote columns for The Washington Post from

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Speaker 1: his prison cell in Russia, has also been released. The

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Speaker 1: Russian politician, author and historian was convicted of treason for

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Speaker 1: denouncing the war in Ukraine. The deal required significant concessions

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Speaker 1: from other countries to complete, with seven other nations agreeing

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Speaker 1: to hand over twenty four prisoners, President Joe Biden calling

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Speaker 1: it a diplomatic feat and an incredible relief, saying it

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Speaker 1: was a powerful example of why it's vital to have

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Speaker 1: friends in the world. The unofficial mascot of the Paris Game,

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Speaker 1: Snoop Dog, has told a UK radio station that the

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Speaker 1: late Queen Elizabeth was a fan of his and he

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Speaker 1: plans to try and stop in and visit Prince William

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Speaker 1: while he's in the neighborhood. When asked about his plans

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Speaker 1: while in the UK, Snoop said that he plans to

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Speaker 1: go by the palace to see if they let him in.

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Speaker 1: Replying to the DJ who said Prince William was a fan,

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Speaker 1: Snoop says the Queen was too. Rest in peace, he says,

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Speaker 1: that was my girl. Snoop has been sitting in the

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Speaker 1: stands for US events in Paris, especially present to watch

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Speaker 1: Simone Viles take home gold for the US twice in gymnastics.

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Speaker 4: The Pulse on Paris thanks to move by Mamma Mia,

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Speaker 4: the exercise app he'll actually enjoy.

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Speaker 1: In Paris, and the Ossie women's four by two hundred

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Speaker 1: meter freestyle relay team have scored another goal in the pool,

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Speaker 1: Mollo Callahan, Lani Pallister, Brianna Throssel and Arian Tipmas proving

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Speaker 1: too good for the competition, also setting an Olympic record.

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Speaker 1: The Olympic redemption arc for Gymnas. Simone Viles is complete

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Speaker 1: with the twenty seven year old scoring goal in the

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Speaker 1: women's Individual all round. This is her ninth Olympic medal,

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Speaker 1: her sixth goal and second individual all round title. Australia's

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Speaker 1: Ruby pass finished in thirteen. We scored a bronze in

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Speaker 1: the twenty kilometer women's speed walking, with Jemima Montag coming

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Speaker 1: in third. Windsurfer Gray Morris is guaranteed a medal. He's

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Speaker 1: just waiting to see which one. After going down to

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Speaker 1: Nigeria in their opening match, the Opals have come back

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Speaker 1: in their second, defeating Canada seventy to sixty five. Ozsi

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Speaker 1: beat volleyball duo Telekua Clancy and Maria Potacco Desla have

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Speaker 1: beaten Canada twenty one to sixteen. In the men's water polo,

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Speaker 1: the Assis had to contend with the crowd and their

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Speaker 1: opponent as they took on France, feting the home team

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Speaker 1: nine to eight. The Kookabaros have sealed their progression out

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Speaker 1: of Group B in the hockey defeating New Zealand five nil,

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Speaker 1: and the Ossie three on three basketball team have taken

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Speaker 1: out the defending champions, the US, their third win of

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Speaker 1: the tournaments. That's what's happening in the world today. Next

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Speaker 1: we find out the real scientific reason why women feel

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Speaker 1: the cold more than men. So ladies crank up that thermostat.

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Speaker 5: No, it's here.

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Speaker 2: The freeze is upon us.

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Speaker 5: Oh are you guys talking about the ec.

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Speaker 1: When screens turns to summer and there's blossom on the trees.

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Speaker 5: The office air doctor to I said.

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Speaker 2: All the women, I don't know. I'm pretty comfortable.

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Speaker 1: Air conditioning guidelines are sexist and the women are cold.

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Speaker 5: I worked in this radiology clinic where the radiologist had

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Speaker 5: to have the room really dark so he could see

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Speaker 5: the screens properly, but to keep himself awake, he would

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Speaker 5: keep the room so freezing cold, and I would have

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Speaker 5: to sit there and I would like have my hands

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Speaker 5: wrapped around a hot mug of water just to keep

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Speaker 5: them semi warm. The room was freezing.

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Speaker 4: A few Christmas parties ago, I won the office award

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Speaker 4: for most inconsistent body temperature because I was basically having

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Speaker 4: to wrap myself in several blankets to stay warm at work.

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Speaker 1: For a very long time, office building air conditioning levels

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Speaker 1: have been set based on middle aged men's needs. It's

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Speaker 1: called Standard fifty five, introduced by the American Society of Heating,

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Speaker 1: Refrigeration and air Conditioning Engineers back in nineteen sixty six.

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Speaker 1: It took into account a few things like outside temperatures

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Speaker 1: and humidity, and a few human ones too, like what

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Speaker 1: nineteen sixties office workers would have been wearing. So for

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Speaker 1: more than fifty years, the air cone's been set for

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Speaker 1: a forty year old man weighing in at around seventy

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Speaker 1: kgs and dressed in a full suited business attire. All

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Speaker 1: modern air conditioning has been set to follow this standard.

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Speaker 1: And so while Brian in sales is feeling pretty spiffy,

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Speaker 1: Madison in the socials team is half frozen to death. Now,

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Speaker 1: there are a few ways we can address this. Women

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Speaker 1: do tend to be more exposed in office attire. I mean,

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Speaker 1: when's the last time you saw your male colleague's knees,

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Speaker 1: for example. So we can layer up some in winter,

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Speaker 1: but in summer it gets a little trickier. A lot

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Speaker 1: of office buildings have big, beautiful windows to capture all

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Speaker 1: that natural light, and while Madison is enjoying the defrosting

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Speaker 1: glory of the summer sun filtering into the building, the

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Speaker 1: chances of it actually reaching her desk are slimmer, seeing

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Speaker 1: as the glass ceiling sees women traditionally situated in the

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Speaker 1: more central parts of the office. Meanwhile, poor old Brian

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Speaker 1: is now sweltering in his corner office with two full

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Speaker 1: window walls that the patriarchy has so kindly grunted him

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Speaker 1: access to. Now here's the thing. Brian, being in a

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Speaker 1: more senior position, has more control of the air con

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Speaker 1: and so he has it cranked to arctic twenty two

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Speaker 1: degrees so that he has a comfortable experience in his

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Speaker 1: nine to five Madison, who, if you recall, is sitting

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Speaker 1: in a more central position in the office, is also

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Speaker 1: closer to where the majority of air conditioning vents are situated.

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Speaker 2: Too.

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Speaker 1: Time to pull out the throw rug and space heater.

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Speaker 1: But this struggle doesn't just happen in the workplace.

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Speaker 6: My partner is English and he is obsessed with the cold.

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Speaker 6: It has been freezing, and he insists that we keep

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Speaker 6: the windows open to let the cold inside because he

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Speaker 6: sleeps better. He hates putting on the heat ekon and

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Speaker 6: consistently lives in shorts and t shirts no matter what

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Speaker 6: temperature it is. We've even gotten to the point where

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Speaker 6: I will have the entire juna wrapped around me and

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Speaker 6: he will be on the bed as well, but just

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Speaker 6: with nothing on him. It's wild.

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Speaker 1: A twenty fifteen study by Dutch scientists found that women

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Speaker 1: are comfortable at a temperature around two and a half

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Speaker 1: degrees warmer than men, somewhere between twenty four and twenty

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Speaker 1: five degrees, which is above there's suggested twenty one or

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Speaker 1: twenty two degrees we're told is the ideal air conditioning level.

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Speaker 1: But why is this? Men and women pretty much have

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Speaker 1: the same core body temperature. In fact, in women it

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Speaker 1: can be a little higher. So why are we so

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Speaker 1: damn cold? Doctor Christian Morrow is an Associate professor of

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Speaker 1: Biomedical Sciences and Medicine at Bond University. Christian, what would

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Speaker 1: you say your ideal room temperature would be? As a

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Speaker 1: man in this world?

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Speaker 2: I do like it really cold.

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Speaker 3: I have one of the colder officers and am much

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Speaker 3: more comfortable in a Chili environment.

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Speaker 1: So is there a reason why you're more comfortable in

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Speaker 1: that Chile environment? And many many women say that they

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Speaker 1: are not that comfortable in that very chilly environment. Do

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Speaker 1: we actually feel the cold more than you?

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Speaker 3: The answer is yes. Between the sex is there's always

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Speaker 3: a lot more similarities and differences. But one thing that

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Speaker 3: does consistently come up in and the office environment is

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Speaker 3: in surveys, women do tend to prefer a warmer environment

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Speaker 3: than males. There is science behind it, and it's all

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Speaker 3: to do with hormones.

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Speaker 1: Ooh, okay, feel us in our hormones play a lot

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Speaker 1: of roles and a lot of things in our life.

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Speaker 1: So how is it playing a role here?

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Speaker 3: So to east in a pagesterone now pagesterone, which really

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Speaker 3: peaks that week after ovulation. As pagesterone increases, it does

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Speaker 3: a few different things. It prepares the body in the

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Speaker 3: core to be nice and warm, so it moves blood

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Speaker 3: from the extremities and just heats up the insides. We

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Speaker 3: call it the cold hands warm heart. You know, I

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Speaker 3: notice your hands a little bit colder, so blood is

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Speaker 3: diverted to the center. That does two things. Firstly, your

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Speaker 3: hands and feet feel cold. You feel cold because blood's

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Speaker 3: not going to the outside anymore, and because your inside

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Speaker 3: is warmer, you also notice a drop to the outside

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Speaker 3: a lot more. It feels one degree older than otherwise.

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Speaker 3: So it's one of the things that the warmer your

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Speaker 3: insides are, the colder the outside is as a comparison

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Speaker 3: to your body that progesterone, now estrogen does the opposite.

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Speaker 3: Terogen will send blood to the extremities and make it

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Speaker 3: all warm on the outside. But what that then does

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Speaker 3: is it means you lose heat faster, So you can't

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Speaker 3: win either way. So in both scenarios, whether there's an

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Speaker 3: issues as part of the cycle or pogesterone is part

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Speaker 3: of the cycle, you do notice that cold outside a

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Speaker 3: bit more. So that's just as cyclical hormones. There are

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Speaker 3: a few other changes as well that can accommodate a

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Speaker 3: little bit of these differences too.

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Speaker 1: So just to put it out there, will we feel

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Speaker 1: the cold more or less depending on where we are

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Speaker 1: in our menstrual cycle.

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Speaker 3: Yes, so the more progesterone, the less blood gets diverted

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Speaker 3: to the hands, And you can track this as well.

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Speaker 3: You seem like the temperature tracking, particularly during fertility times

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Speaker 3: when you try and track the temperature, so the body

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Speaker 3: temperature does change a lot. So yes, it can be unpredictable,

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Speaker 3: and you might even find at certain times as a

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Speaker 3: hot flush or all of a sudden the blood burns

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Speaker 3: to your skin and then the canside again. But either

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Speaker 3: way it tends to be a little bit more comfortable

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Speaker 3: being warm. It's not just in humans. Actually animals have

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Speaker 3: the same thing. It's the same very similar cycles in

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Speaker 3: other mammals where the females of the species tend to

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Speaker 3: prefer warm environments. It's really pronounced in some species like bats.

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Speaker 3: The theory behind it is maybe before the young animals

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Speaker 3: are ready to be alone and in the more cold environments,

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Speaker 3: the warmer environments better for their metabolism. So there's always

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Speaker 3: been a few attempts to try and explain why this

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Speaker 3: is the case, but it's consistent across quite a lot

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Speaker 3: of animals.

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Speaker 1: What about Christian When we're pregnant, we are flush with

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Speaker 1: hormones during that period. Does that change our ability to

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Speaker 1: be more comfortable less comfortable in a cooler environment?

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Speaker 2: It is. What happens during pregnancy is two things.

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Speaker 3: Firstly, that placenta develops, which is although transient, the largest

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Speaker 3: what we call endochron organ, the largest hormone.

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Speaker 2: Producing organ in the human body.

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Speaker 3: So you have this incredible hormone producing factory. What else

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Speaker 3: happens then is a metabolism increases the body's burning a

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Speaker 3: lot more energy, which means the inside once again, the

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Speaker 3: inside heaps up a little bit more, and so you

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Speaker 3: do notice that temperature difference a lot more as well.

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Speaker 3: So there's a few different things that can happen. The

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Speaker 3: problem with pregnancy is it can change very quickly, so

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Speaker 3: one day you're cold, one day you're hot, one day

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Speaker 3: you're cold, and one day you're hot. The similar thing

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Speaker 3: happens during menopause, where it'll be hot flushes and cold flushes.

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Speaker 3: And it's one of the things we probably don't speak

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Speaker 3: enough about is the fact that when hormones are going

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Speaker 3: through very rapid and incredible cycles, such as pregnancy, menopause

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Speaker 3: times like that, there will be a difference in preference,

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Speaker 3: even during the day, sometimes by the hour, that all

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Speaker 3: of a sudden you're warm and then you're cold, and

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Speaker 3: we probably don't accommodate for that as well as we

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Speaker 3: could in a workplace environment where that's just the temperature

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Speaker 3: is the same.

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Speaker 1: Well, I love that this plays into a woman has

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Speaker 1: a right to change her mind, because if I'm cold

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Speaker 1: one minute and hot the next, I have ever the

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Speaker 1: world to be changing that thermostat to suit my needs,

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Speaker 1: don't you think?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, And one of the recommendations is something like having

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Speaker 3: sort of like a little personal area around the workplace,

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Speaker 3: a personal comfort system. And even then, you know, encouraging

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Speaker 3: you might need blankets in the chair, a heated chair,

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Speaker 3: or a small desk fan or a footwarmer you can

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Speaker 3: turn on and off to try and allow that. So

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Speaker 3: trying to manage workplaces and the home in a way

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Speaker 3: that can be changed. You can put the heater in

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Speaker 3: the chair off and then put it on put it off,

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Speaker 3: depending upon the time of day. Now, there are some

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Speaker 3: other things we've only spoken about hormones at the moment.

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Speaker 3: There are some other little changes that it tends to be.

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Speaker 3: One of the things that testosterone does through maldevelopment, as

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Speaker 3: it tends to deposit a lot of muscles around their

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Speaker 3: shoulders and the neck a little bit more than what

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Speaker 3: happens in a lot of females, and so with muscle

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Speaker 3: making heat, there tends to be a little bit warmer

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Speaker 3: environment anatomy as well, So there are other changes, but

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Speaker 3: once again the changes still have to do with hormones.

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Speaker 2: That esches in.

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Speaker 3: Progesterone tends to make you feel a bit cold, whereas

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Speaker 3: testosterone tends to help you feel a bit warm through

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Speaker 3: layers of muscle development. The last thing is there's a

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Speaker 3: little bit more fat underneath the skin in certain areas

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Speaker 3: just because of that estrogen as well during female development.

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Speaker 2: What that then means.

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Speaker 3: Is the skin is a little bit further away from

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Speaker 3: the core heat of the muscle, so skin does tend.

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Speaker 2: To feel a little bit colder. So there's little things

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Speaker 2: anatomy as well.

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Speaker 3: Of course isn't consistent to everyone, but there are lots

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Speaker 3: of reasons why.

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Speaker 2: Just because of development, the.

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Speaker 3: Hormones can change our ropensity to what we're comfortable in

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Speaker 3: the environment.

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Speaker 1: Well, that explains a lot about why several men in

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Speaker 1: my life will get around in shorts and songs three

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Speaker 1: hundred and sixty five days a year. They just do

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Speaker 1: not seem to be impacted by temperature anywhere near as

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Speaker 1: much as the women in my life are. So men

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Speaker 1: are they more consistently at a temperature not feeling either extremes.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that extra muscle around the neck.

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Speaker 3: Having the sort of skin a bit closer to the

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Speaker 3: muscles as well and generating that heat as well as

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Speaker 3: not having the cyclical hormones which are impacting the core

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Speaker 3: temperature and the temperature of the body does make it

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Speaker 3: a lot more consistent. And I was surprised traveling through Norway,

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Speaker 3: where every double bed.

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Speaker 2: Has two separate single doners. We sort of don't account

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Speaker 2: for that.

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Speaker 3: We don't have to count for the fact that people

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Speaker 3: will have different preferences for temperature, and even then couples

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Speaker 3: will have different preferences for temperature, and even your background,

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Speaker 3: what you're used to, what you like, and what you enjoy.

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Speaker 3: So it's one thing we don't seem to have accounted

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Speaker 3: for in a lot of homes, workplaces, sleep environments, is

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Speaker 3: that people in general just have different temperature preferences, and

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Speaker 3: yet we're all trying to live in the same consistent

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Speaker 3: environments in all the cases, and it probably isn't the

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Speaker 3: right way to go about it.

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Speaker 1: So maybe we should think a little bit more about

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Speaker 1: tailoring our environments, whether that be work or home or wherever,

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Speaker 1: to suit our individual needs. Like I've worked for a

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Speaker 1: company that provided some of us with heated throw rugs

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Speaker 1: during winter, for example, that we could plug in and

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Speaker 1: chuck over our knees while we sat at our desk

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Speaker 1: or individual desk fans like you were talking about. I

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Speaker 1: know my partner and I sleep with a doner and

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Speaker 1: then a blanket on top, which only goes on my

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Speaker 1: side of the bed. So we kind of have to

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Speaker 1: tailor it to our individual needs.

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Speaker 2: I guess absolutely.

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Speaker 3: And the more we're sort of aware of it and

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Speaker 3: even or comen of these changes, it's beautiful how the

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Speaker 3: body works and the fact that our body will prepare

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Speaker 3: itself for different times of the month and different times

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Speaker 3: of the day in the week. But it's a wonderful

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Speaker 3: system what's going on inside us and just accommodating the

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Speaker 3: outside world to make us as comfortable as we.

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Speaker 2: Can be in that changing internal environment.

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Speaker 1: We are in the final stretch of winter, ladies, So

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Speaker 1: just a few more weeks of this frostiness and we

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Speaker 1: can start to thaw out. Oh wait a minute, check

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Speaker 1: that Brian's in charge of the air conditioning.

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Speaker 2: Perfect temperature.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for tuning in today, friends. If there's a new

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Speaker 1: story I'd like us to check out for you, let

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Speaker 1: us know about it, send us an email the Quickie

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Speaker 1: at mumamea dot com dot au. We'll find us on Instagram,

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Speaker 1: threads or Facebook. The Quiki is produced by me Claire

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Speaker 1: Murphy and our senior producer, Taylor Strato, with audio production

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Speaker 1: by Tom light

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Speaker 3: On