WEBVTT - Finally, The Interview: Mia Freedman and Kate Langbroek 0:00:10.365 --> 0:00:13.085 You're listening to a Mother Maya podcast. 0:00:13.885 --> 0:00:16.885 Mama Maya acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters 0:00:16.885 --> 0:00:19.405 that this podcast is recorded on. Felt like I had 0:00:19.485 --> 0:00:22.565 no skin. Yeah, you felt like I was just raw. 0:00:23.325 --> 0:00:26.725 I was just an open I was just all Yeah, 0:00:26.725 --> 0:00:28.285 I had no protection. 0:00:29.285 --> 0:00:31.085 Yeah, I was just I was a friggin. 0:00:30.845 --> 0:00:43.245 Mess for Mama Maya. This is No Filter. I'm Kate 0:00:43.325 --> 0:00:46.925 lang Brook. Yes you are, Yes, I am. I'm going 0:00:46.925 --> 0:00:47.845 to introduce us. 0:00:47.925 --> 0:00:49.885 Okay, I'm Kate lane Brook. 0:00:52.725 --> 0:00:56.325 And I'm joined by someone who, when I have listened 0:00:56.325 --> 0:01:00.805 to No Filter over the years, I have wanted to 0:01:00.845 --> 0:01:06.565 talk to this person more than anybody else. I would 0:01:06.605 --> 0:01:11.285 like to introduce my very special Geest Maya Friedman. 0:01:12.605 --> 0:01:14.685 I was easy to get. 0:01:15.165 --> 0:01:17.085 Wow, you were not easy to get. 0:01:17.325 --> 0:01:18.805 Well, that's true. That's also true. 0:01:18.845 --> 0:01:21.725 In fact, part of the reason I think we're sitting 0:01:21.805 --> 0:01:25.045 here is that you've been very hard to get. 0:01:25.845 --> 0:01:27.445 I like playing hard to get. Yes, we did have 0:01:27.445 --> 0:01:29.525 an aborted attempt at this a year ago, didn't we. 0:01:29.805 --> 0:01:30.405 Yeah, we did. 0:01:30.725 --> 0:01:32.645 I've been thinking about that a lot when I was 0:01:32.685 --> 0:01:36.045 thinking about today and how this time last year we 0:01:36.125 --> 0:01:39.045 sat down before you were going to host the summer 0:01:39.525 --> 0:01:42.605 Summer's edition Summer Season of No Filter to see how 0:01:42.645 --> 0:01:44.965 you liked it, because I needed a rest. 0:01:45.405 --> 0:01:47.525 And well, you were hanging by a three. I was 0:01:47.525 --> 0:01:48.245 hanging by thread. 0:01:48.325 --> 0:01:51.845 And it wasn't, in hindsight, a very good time to 0:01:51.925 --> 0:01:54.085 do an interview. And I never sit down and do 0:01:54.165 --> 0:01:56.165 long form interviews, so I hadn't for a long time 0:01:56.445 --> 0:02:00.805 before that, like years, and I sat down and it 0:02:00.925 --> 0:02:02.205 you thought it went well. 0:02:02.445 --> 0:02:06.765 Yeah, it was great. It was absolutely fascinating. You would 0:02:06.805 --> 0:02:08.845 call it well at the time as well. Well, it 0:02:08.885 --> 0:02:11.245 didn't really think about a message afterwards. 0:02:12.685 --> 0:02:14.885 I tried to cancel a few times. You did try 0:02:14.925 --> 0:02:17.245 to cancel anyway. This is all boring, but this is 0:02:17.285 --> 0:02:19.605 all behind the scenes stuff. But I pulled the pin 0:02:19.725 --> 0:02:24.085 because it wasn't when I say it wasn't me at 0:02:24.085 --> 0:02:26.565 my best. I just I was a hot mess, and 0:02:26.605 --> 0:02:28.045 I mean I'm always a hot mess, but I was 0:02:28.205 --> 0:02:31.485 in a particularly fragile state this time last year, and 0:02:31.565 --> 0:02:34.805 I didn't I just didn't particularly want to put that 0:02:34.885 --> 0:02:36.925 out there because I was still in the middle of 0:02:36.965 --> 0:02:37.525 being in that. 0:02:37.445 --> 0:02:41.845 Fragile state because you were processing something which I know 0:02:42.045 --> 0:02:45.885 at the time, but I could tell when I was 0:02:46.045 --> 0:02:49.325 talking to you and do you remember the question that 0:02:49.445 --> 0:02:52.165 tricked your trigger? Do you remember what it was? 0:02:52.245 --> 0:02:52.685 I don't. 0:02:53.205 --> 0:02:55.645 I'll say it to you now because because you're in 0:02:55.725 --> 0:02:59.045 such a vastly different place. I said to you, because 0:02:59.045 --> 0:03:02.525 I've been reading your book. I've read your book, and 0:03:03.045 --> 0:03:03.485 you were on. 0:03:03.445 --> 0:03:05.805 The cusp then of waiting for strife to come out. 0:03:06.325 --> 0:03:07.805 So there was a lot of. 0:03:08.525 --> 0:03:10.805 There were a lot of shap that came in with you. 0:03:10.805 --> 0:03:12.205 I felt like I had no skin. 0:03:12.965 --> 0:03:13.525 Yeah, you were. 0:03:13.925 --> 0:03:15.325 I was just raw. 0:03:15.525 --> 0:03:18.925 I was just an open just I was just all, yeah, 0:03:18.925 --> 0:03:20.485 I had no protection. 0:03:21.645 --> 0:03:26.285 Yeah, But you were still as you do and as 0:03:26.325 --> 0:03:29.045 you have to do. You were still navigating your way 0:03:29.085 --> 0:03:34.045 through this world because you've got so many, you know, 0:03:34.365 --> 0:03:38.565 plates spinning at all times, and if you drop the plates, 0:03:39.045 --> 0:03:41.365 there's a world on each of those plates. So I 0:03:41.405 --> 0:03:43.365 get the feeling you're very conscious of not dropping those 0:03:43.365 --> 0:03:45.805 plates because you don't want to damage the people that 0:03:45.845 --> 0:03:46.565 are on the plates. 0:03:46.725 --> 0:03:52.045 That's very That's such an insightful observation, and you're right. 0:03:52.165 --> 0:03:55.525 It's like, I think I probably had some kind of breakdown. 0:03:55.885 --> 0:03:58.845 I had a sort of a slow moving, ongoing breakdown 0:03:59.525 --> 0:04:04.245 over the last around that time before that, and probably through. 0:04:04.045 --> 0:04:07.405 To about halfway through this year, which weirdly. 0:04:07.045 --> 0:04:09.525 Makes me ran half you know, well it is like. 0:04:09.565 --> 0:04:12.405 Let's just crack into it. Hey, we haven't even have 0:04:12.445 --> 0:04:13.245 no small talk. 0:04:13.565 --> 0:04:15.365 Well well you may as well laugh. 0:04:15.645 --> 0:04:17.205 Oh no, but it is funny. 0:04:17.365 --> 0:04:19.805 It's like, because I had this breakdown and I probably 0:04:20.085 --> 0:04:23.325 should have taken myself away somewhere, yes, but I couldn't. 0:04:23.525 --> 0:04:24.645 I just couldn't. 0:04:25.285 --> 0:04:27.645 You Hosting the summer season of No Filter was the 0:04:27.725 --> 0:04:31.565 first tentative step that I'd taken from stepping back from 0:04:31.605 --> 0:04:35.485 really anything since I wasn't the editor of Mamamea anymore. 0:04:35.565 --> 0:04:40.605 I know it, So yeah, it was it was, Yeah, 0:04:40.645 --> 0:04:42.725 I was just I was a freaking mess. 0:04:42.525 --> 0:04:45.885 Because you know, those of us who really just if 0:04:45.925 --> 0:04:50.205 we knew nothing about you other than your output, if 0:04:50.205 --> 0:04:55.525 we knew nothing other than that, that is extraordinary and 0:04:55.565 --> 0:05:00.405 that is exhausting to think about. So you were exhausted 0:05:00.445 --> 0:05:02.805 and this is this is the thing, and I wasn't 0:05:02.845 --> 0:05:05.165 doing It wasn't a gotcha, it wasn't whatever. It was 0:05:05.285 --> 0:05:08.685 like a genuine because I just wanted to work out 0:05:09.845 --> 0:05:14.125 what your driver was, what your engine, what, what what your 0:05:14.125 --> 0:05:18.445 engine takes? And I said to you because I'd read 0:05:18.485 --> 0:05:21.725 your book, and I said, it's really interesting because you 0:05:21.725 --> 0:05:23.725 you we talked about whether or not you ever reflect 0:05:23.765 --> 0:05:27.885 on the amazing thing that you've built things, and you 0:05:28.085 --> 0:05:30.965 said no. And then I said, you know what's interesting 0:05:31.005 --> 0:05:33.485 in your book and you talk about work that's still 0:05:33.525 --> 0:05:35.965 got to be done and you know what you could 0:05:35.965 --> 0:05:38.445 have done better? And I said, but you never talk 0:05:39.085 --> 0:05:42.845 about the concept of happiness. Do you remember that? 0:05:42.765 --> 0:05:44.365 Is that all I can see? I can feel? 0:05:44.525 --> 0:05:48.525 Yeah again, yeah, yeah, and it was it was just 0:05:48.645 --> 0:05:52.445 a yeah. 0:05:51.285 --> 0:05:55.005 And then that was like, I don't know, it's like 0:05:55.045 --> 0:05:57.805 someone pulled a little stitch, the last stitch that you 0:05:57.845 --> 0:06:01.805 were hanging by, and then you kind of just unraveled. 0:06:01.205 --> 0:06:04.085 A little bit. Oh yeah, a lot. Yeah, how to 0:06:04.165 --> 0:06:06.045 you cry? Yeah, it's true. 0:06:06.125 --> 0:06:12.205 It's like happiness kind of doesn't does really when you're 0:06:12.245 --> 0:06:12.965 running a business. 0:06:13.045 --> 0:06:13.365 It's not. 0:06:13.445 --> 0:06:17.565 Actually that's a luxury that sort of sits on the side. 0:06:17.645 --> 0:06:18.325 And not to be matter. 0:06:18.485 --> 0:06:20.805 Like, I also love my work. I think it would 0:06:20.845 --> 0:06:23.445 be easier if I didn't. You know, I didn't if 0:06:23.485 --> 0:06:26.485 I didn't love my work, I would go I'm so 0:06:26.565 --> 0:06:29.165 burnt out, I'm so exhausted, I need to back away. 0:06:29.205 --> 0:06:31.605 But Firstly, when you've built something this size, it's hard 0:06:31.645 --> 0:06:32.645 to extract yourself. 0:06:33.005 --> 0:06:35.405 But also I love it. I love what I do 0:06:35.565 --> 0:06:36.845 like I love what I do. 0:06:37.405 --> 0:06:41.245 And it's a question of working out when it's time 0:06:41.965 --> 0:06:43.965 to call time on certainty. 0:06:43.565 --> 0:06:48.045 Okay, which has led us to this today. How do 0:06:48.125 --> 0:06:53.165 you work that out? Because I mean, you are apparently 0:06:53.205 --> 0:06:56.965 the Meya in MoMA men well I used to be. 0:06:57.085 --> 0:06:58.765 I think there's a lot of people who wouldn't even 0:06:58.805 --> 0:07:01.325 know who I am anymore, who might experience Muma Mea 0:07:01.365 --> 0:07:05.445 through one of our other podcasts, not No Filter, or 0:07:05.845 --> 0:07:09.205 written content or social content that they might consume or something, 0:07:09.365 --> 0:07:13.085 and they wouldn't even know, particularly younger people gen zads 0:07:13.325 --> 0:07:15.925 and millennials who wouldn't even know who I was, Which 0:07:15.965 --> 0:07:18.165 is the way it has always which is what we've 0:07:18.205 --> 0:07:21.045 always wanted. Jason and I yess when we first started. 0:07:21.685 --> 0:07:25.645 Our last seventeen years have been about slowly backing me out. 0:07:26.285 --> 0:07:29.085 That's a long that's a long reverse. 0:07:29.725 --> 0:07:34.085 Day, that's long driveway suories. 0:07:34.165 --> 0:07:36.045 That's when you're back into the fence. 0:07:36.285 --> 0:07:39.125 Many which I've done many times, many many times. 0:07:39.645 --> 0:07:40.845 My old producer on. 0:07:40.845 --> 0:07:44.045 No Filter, Eliza Ratliffe, knows that I've been trying to 0:07:44.085 --> 0:07:46.085 quit No Filter for two years, and not because I 0:07:46.165 --> 0:07:49.645 don't love it, but just because it takes a lot, 0:07:49.965 --> 0:07:50.925 Like it takes. 0:07:50.605 --> 0:07:53.725 A lot, Yes, it's a lot, and for I mean 0:07:54.085 --> 0:07:58.365 people listening to it, I think they know intuitively, even 0:07:58.365 --> 0:08:00.485 if they haven't thought in a more academic since about 0:08:00.485 --> 0:08:04.645 how much it takes that if you're interviewing someone who's 0:08:04.645 --> 0:08:07.845 got a body of work, you pay them the courtesy 0:08:08.125 --> 0:08:11.765 of familiar you're rising yourself with their body of work. Well, 0:08:11.805 --> 0:08:15.885 that can be books, what is it can be TV shows, movie, yes, yeah, 0:08:16.525 --> 0:08:19.165 all the different things and even just getting to understand 0:08:19.645 --> 0:08:23.605 who someone is like to prepare for an interview, my 0:08:23.925 --> 0:08:27.245 process is just very immersive and I can only do 0:08:27.365 --> 0:08:31.405 it within about twenty four hours of actually sitting down 0:08:31.445 --> 0:08:35.765 with them. So because you've done so many new things 0:08:37.085 --> 0:08:40.405 over the last I don't know, Like you said, there's 0:08:40.445 --> 0:08:42.965 a plethora of new podcasts, it kind of feels like 0:08:43.045 --> 0:08:46.645 there's another You're going to another level, which might be 0:08:46.645 --> 0:08:49.085 the level at which you kind of get to. 0:08:49.765 --> 0:08:52.165 I think the business is getting bigger, but I want 0:08:52.165 --> 0:08:54.685 to get smaller, right if that makes sense? 0:08:54.965 --> 0:08:56.845 It does make sense. But do you know how to 0:08:56.965 --> 0:08:57.365 do that. 0:08:57.685 --> 0:09:00.885 Well, that's what the last sort of eighteen months to 0:09:00.965 --> 0:09:05.205 two years has been. It's been setting us up for 0:09:05.325 --> 0:09:10.525 Jason and I to be able to excel right, Like 0:09:10.805 --> 0:09:14.005 I don't want to completely building, but to go okay. 0:09:15.325 --> 0:09:18.405 There wasn't an option until sort of the last eighteen months, 0:09:18.405 --> 0:09:21.965 so that it's been finding the right people when new CEO, 0:09:22.245 --> 0:09:24.645 when you chief content officer, we've got a new chief 0:09:24.645 --> 0:09:29.285 revenue officer, all these different people to put in to say, okay, 0:09:30.485 --> 0:09:34.565 we now feel able to step back further to a 0:09:34.645 --> 0:09:38.805 point where we don't have to run the whole thing anymore, 0:09:38.805 --> 0:09:42.325 that they can take the baton from us. And you know, 0:09:42.365 --> 0:09:44.085 you want to hire people who are smarter than you. 0:09:44.085 --> 0:09:45.685 You want to work with people who are smarter than you. 0:09:46.005 --> 0:09:49.245 But after a while, when you've done something for a while, 0:09:49.285 --> 0:09:52.005 it's hard to find those people because you've been in 0:09:52.005 --> 0:09:52.485 the space. 0:09:52.885 --> 0:09:56.925 It's really hard to find those people. And also, I'm free. 0:09:57.325 --> 0:10:02.005 So you know the reason why I'm like, oh me, 0:10:02.125 --> 0:10:03.245 you can do it, me, you can do it. Me, 0:10:03.285 --> 0:10:04.525 you can do it, and I'll put up my hand 0:10:04.565 --> 0:10:05.245 is that I am. 0:10:05.165 --> 0:10:07.605 Free and I'm available of course. 0:10:07.405 --> 0:10:10.725 And you know, hiring really good people like you and 0:10:11.085 --> 0:10:14.285 other and the executives that we've got and all the 0:10:14.325 --> 0:10:16.685 people that work in our business, including our head of content. 0:10:16.845 --> 0:10:18.645 That costs a lot of money, and you have to 0:10:18.725 --> 0:10:22.405 be you know, people see the front, but they don't know, 0:10:22.725 --> 0:10:24.525 you know, it's like the dark gliding across the pond. 0:10:24.925 --> 0:10:27.165 They don't see what's going on under your surface. And 0:10:27.165 --> 0:10:28.925 there's a lot going on under the surface. 0:10:29.245 --> 0:10:33.645 It's like my husband who own nightclubs, and people always think, oh, 0:10:33.685 --> 0:10:37.445 you must get cheap booze. You don't, you don't. You 0:10:37.525 --> 0:10:41.245 actually can get it cheaper at Dan Murphy's. But also 0:10:41.365 --> 0:10:44.845 they don't know about rent and people and insurance and 0:10:45.005 --> 0:10:51.685 Capra and la la la and exactly exactly. So what Okay, 0:10:51.765 --> 0:10:55.405 So here's the thing with you and you're seventeen year 0:10:55.485 --> 0:11:01.245 reversing out of the driveway. But because it's not just 0:11:01.325 --> 0:11:07.965 a business, it's also your family. So that is just 0:11:08.045 --> 0:11:11.605 another mind bog Like when I was here yesterday and 0:11:11.645 --> 0:11:15.925 you were arriving with Luca and Jesse Jesse, which was gorgeous, 0:11:16.005 --> 0:11:18.125 and then someone made the joke, was at Luca that 0:11:18.165 --> 0:11:20.765 you just derived from the succession helicoptery. 0:11:20.805 --> 0:11:23.605 Yeah, because it's like it was. 0:11:23.525 --> 0:11:26.245 Like we bumped into each other in the car and 0:11:26.285 --> 0:11:29.165 they drove in together. It's like, yeah, it's a family business, 0:11:29.205 --> 0:11:30.845 Like there's one hundred and fifty people in it. But 0:11:31.445 --> 0:11:34.045 Jason and I are the co founders, Luca is the 0:11:34.165 --> 0:11:38.525 chief operating and product officer, and you know my friend 0:11:38.565 --> 0:11:39.445 and daughter in law, Jesse. 0:11:39.605 --> 0:11:40.965 I posted a podcast with her. 0:11:40.925 --> 0:11:46.805 And so yeah, everyone's various people are involved in the business. 0:11:46.805 --> 0:11:49.405 I mean, our two youngest children just want to get 0:11:49.445 --> 0:11:49.965 away from it. 0:11:50.045 --> 0:11:52.085 Yeah, you know, they'll probably get sucked into it too. 0:11:52.565 --> 0:11:57.285 So yeah, that means that it's not a job you 0:11:57.285 --> 0:11:58.125 can easily quit. 0:11:58.925 --> 0:12:03.565 But also aside from the job, you've also as a 0:12:04.045 --> 0:12:08.325 human and as a woman and as a mother, you've 0:12:08.365 --> 0:12:12.165 become a mother in law. Yeah, and that's and a 0:12:12.205 --> 0:12:15.405 grandmother and that's all happened at the same time as well. 0:12:15.685 --> 0:12:17.885 Yeah, and I think that last year was a real 0:12:18.005 --> 0:12:21.245 unraveling for me, Like on every level of my identity. 0:12:21.885 --> 0:12:25.125 I turned, I turned, how old did I added whatever? 0:12:25.165 --> 0:12:28.565 I turned fifty fifty three, You start to hear blurred. 0:12:29.285 --> 0:12:31.645 I became a grandmother, my eldest son got married, Like 0:12:32.005 --> 0:12:35.805 all of these things happened my youngest child sort of 0:12:35.965 --> 0:12:40.045 you know, got beyond that age where you know, he 0:12:40.165 --> 0:12:43.445 turned sixteen, So it's like I officially moved into that 0:12:43.605 --> 0:12:46.925 age of your kids are growing up in a way, 0:12:47.285 --> 0:12:51.365 having their own families, and what does that mean? And 0:12:51.445 --> 0:12:54.845 at the same time, the world is telling you you're irrelevant, 0:12:54.885 --> 0:12:56.445 you're invisible, you're a carrying. 0:12:56.285 --> 0:12:59.045 Your socks are the wrong link your socks, yeah, you're. 0:12:58.885 --> 0:13:02.525 A loser, all of those things. And then it's like, well, 0:13:02.525 --> 0:13:04.005 and then what do you do with your face and 0:13:04.045 --> 0:13:07.485 what like? And I just I just lost it, Like 0:13:07.565 --> 0:13:11.925 I just felt really it was like you know when 0:13:12.005 --> 0:13:14.245 you're doing a software upgrade and you get like the 0:13:14.285 --> 0:13:15.365 spinning wheel. 0:13:15.645 --> 0:13:18.205 Right, the wheel was just spinning. It was like the 0:13:18.205 --> 0:13:18.805 spinning wheel. 0:13:18.885 --> 0:13:22.165 It's like it was before this new phase, I was 0:13:22.245 --> 0:13:24.525 just really lost. I was lost at work, I was 0:13:24.565 --> 0:13:28.005 lost at home. I was lost with my place in 0:13:28.045 --> 0:13:30.365 the world, all of those things. And part of the 0:13:30.405 --> 0:13:33.645 reason that I also wanted to find the right person 0:13:33.645 --> 0:13:37.565 to hand no Filter over to was I wanted to 0:13:37.605 --> 0:13:40.205 make some room creatively to do some other things, and 0:13:40.245 --> 0:13:42.485 there just wasn't any room. And I used to think 0:13:42.485 --> 0:13:43.965 that I could just take on more and more and 0:13:44.005 --> 0:13:47.605 more and more, and last year I realized, oh, I'm breaking. 0:13:47.845 --> 0:13:51.405 I'm broken, and I realized that, okay, I can't. So 0:13:51.445 --> 0:13:52.565 I had to make some space. 0:13:52.805 --> 0:13:54.205 Yeah and how okay. 0:13:54.285 --> 0:13:58.245 So in my experience, when you find yourself in situations 0:13:58.285 --> 0:14:02.885 like that, if you don't make the decision, your body 0:14:02.925 --> 0:14:05.805 will make the decision for you. Oh yeah. So it's 0:14:05.845 --> 0:14:07.525 like the actors will often say, if they've been in 0:14:07.605 --> 0:14:10.965 like a long run of a plan, they get sick 0:14:11.125 --> 0:14:13.845 on the last night they had their rap party, and 0:14:13.885 --> 0:14:17.645 then they got the down. So you had to call 0:14:17.725 --> 0:14:21.325 it before your body called it. My body's tried to 0:14:21.365 --> 0:14:24.525 call it for a really long time, like you know. 0:14:24.645 --> 0:14:26.765 Jason was talking to someone the other day and said, 0:14:28.005 --> 0:14:31.045 MAYA has passed the point of burnout so many times 0:14:31.325 --> 0:14:33.685 because it's like it's just not been an option. 0:14:34.525 --> 0:14:36.645 So it's been I've gone past. 0:14:36.445 --> 0:14:41.125 Burnout, past burnout, past burnout, past burnout. And I was 0:14:41.165 --> 0:14:43.845 sick quite a lot in twenty twenty four. I just 0:14:43.925 --> 0:14:46.005 got like, you know, the usual winter thing. Lots of 0:14:46.045 --> 0:14:47.365 people have just got sick. 0:14:47.805 --> 0:14:48.765 My immune system has. 0:14:48.645 --> 0:14:50.925 Been okay, but I've also been going through perimenopause and 0:14:50.925 --> 0:14:55.045 then menopause, and so it's been all in to know 0:14:55.125 --> 0:15:01.285 what yes, exactly, And I just I recover very, very easily, 0:15:01.645 --> 0:15:03.805 and I've got a really big engine, I think because 0:15:03.805 --> 0:15:08.085 I'm quite also forgetful, and I just forget that I'm exhausted. 0:15:07.645 --> 0:15:10.285 Like I don't I don't. 0:15:09.325 --> 0:15:13.805 Corinate in things long, Like I just sleep well, really well. 0:15:14.325 --> 0:15:15.365 Or what time do you go to bed? 0:15:16.765 --> 0:15:17.725 I probably I. 0:15:17.645 --> 0:15:21.765 Look at my phone until maybe fifteen seconds before I'm 0:15:23.605 --> 0:15:25.725 before I'm asleep, Like, I'll just look at it. 0:15:25.765 --> 0:15:26.365 I'm not one of. 0:15:26.285 --> 0:15:28.805 Those people that need to do special sleep hygiene and everything. 0:15:29.005 --> 0:15:31.645 I'm fortunate in that way. And then I will just 0:15:31.765 --> 0:15:34.605 literally turn my phone off, put it on the floor, 0:15:34.645 --> 0:15:35.805 and within fifteen. 0:15:35.405 --> 0:15:36.525 Seconds go to sleep. 0:15:36.845 --> 0:15:37.965 And how long do you sleep? For? 0:15:39.365 --> 0:15:42.725 Probably about seven between six to seven hours. 0:15:43.565 --> 0:15:46.365 Yeah, I wake up pretty early. Do you wake up 0:15:46.405 --> 0:15:49.525 and you're full of ideas? Or do you wake up 0:15:49.565 --> 0:15:52.525 slowly and step into the day. 0:15:52.965 --> 0:15:55.765 Oh I've never been like a jump out of bed person. 0:15:55.965 --> 0:15:58.445 No, but sometimes I wake up and I'm like boo, 0:15:58.845 --> 0:16:01.045 and it's like all these things have happened in my sleep. 0:16:01.805 --> 0:16:03.645 Oh no, all of those things happen in my way. 0:16:03.725 --> 0:16:07.765 Ye okay, yeah, no. So often what I've become very 0:16:07.765 --> 0:16:10.045 aware of is that I wake up, open my eyes, 0:16:10.085 --> 0:16:14.285 pick up my phone, and just saturate myself with stimulation. 0:16:14.365 --> 0:16:16.685 I think that's probably what most of us do, and 0:16:16.725 --> 0:16:20.445 from my brain, it needs that. But I've also become 0:16:20.485 --> 0:16:22.525 aware that that's not a very gentle weight away. 0:16:22.805 --> 0:16:25.245 It's a brutal or pretty brutal. 0:16:25.125 --> 0:16:27.125 Particularly if you're looking at news. 0:16:27.565 --> 0:16:29.205 Yeah, yeah, you know. 0:16:29.245 --> 0:16:30.765 The first thing I'll do is look at my WhatsApp 0:16:30.765 --> 0:16:32.605 and if any of the chats have gone off, Like 0:16:32.685 --> 0:16:34.445 you know, sometimes I wake up and there'll be thirty 0:16:34.485 --> 0:16:36.645 messages and it might be that just one of my 0:16:36.685 --> 0:16:39.885 group chats has you know, gone off overnight about whatever, 0:16:40.445 --> 0:16:43.445 but it also could be breaking news that I've missed 0:16:43.445 --> 0:16:46.525 because you know, someone else was up before me. The 0:16:46.605 --> 0:16:50.205 day starts hard, and then on weekends Luca brings over Luna, 0:16:50.805 --> 0:16:53.965 so you're, yeah, I wake up to her, you know, 0:16:54.005 --> 0:16:56.365 I get up and she's she arrives pretty soon after. 0:16:56.485 --> 0:17:01.925 So yeah, I'm not a sort of lying around person. 0:17:02.085 --> 0:17:05.565 Like my brain just goes all the time, which is 0:17:05.645 --> 0:17:06.805 exhausting in itself. 0:17:07.285 --> 0:17:10.125 So you know how you were saying, Jason said you'd 0:17:10.165 --> 0:17:15.365 gone beyond burnout so many times. How did that manifest? 0:17:15.685 --> 0:17:16.845 Then? Great question? 0:17:18.285 --> 0:17:23.165 Just despair. I think just like cry most days. Sometimes 0:17:23.205 --> 0:17:24.925 i'd cry in meetings, which is bad. 0:17:26.525 --> 0:17:30.045 Sometimes I would out of just out of just. 0:17:30.285 --> 0:17:35.365 Full, full, overwhelmed. They're just overwhelmed, overwhelm, overwhelm, overwhelmed. I'd 0:17:35.365 --> 0:17:39.285 feel just overwhelmed a lot of the time. And then 0:17:39.325 --> 0:17:41.085 I'd have to, you know, come in here, and I'd 0:17:41.125 --> 0:17:42.605 lived because I had to live, sure. 0:17:43.005 --> 0:17:47.325 And also there's distraction then, and distraction is just so 0:17:47.485 --> 0:17:49.445 gratefully received when you're like that. 0:17:49.525 --> 0:17:51.525 I love coming in into the office and I love 0:17:52.165 --> 0:17:55.005 you know, I love recording the podcast that are out loud. 0:17:55.045 --> 0:17:56.525 And then no. 0:17:56.525 --> 0:17:59.725 Filter would often be a lot because when you have 0:17:59.765 --> 0:18:01.965 to meet like the conversations that you have on this show, 0:18:02.005 --> 0:18:06.165 not that they're always bleak or sad, but they're always deep, 0:18:06.845 --> 0:18:07.325 and you have. 0:18:07.365 --> 0:18:09.845 To called no filter correct. So you have to. 0:18:10.045 --> 0:18:13.805 Meet someone there every single time, and it's really intense. 0:18:14.405 --> 0:18:16.045 But I have this thing where I walk out of 0:18:16.085 --> 0:18:18.725 the studio and I won't be able to remember anything. 0:18:19.085 --> 0:18:21.965 So my poor producers would like try to sit down 0:18:22.005 --> 0:18:25.525 with me afterwards and like whatef, and I'm like, I 0:18:25.525 --> 0:18:26.645 don't remember anything. 0:18:26.725 --> 0:18:27.445 It's weird. 0:18:28.005 --> 0:18:30.805 It's like I'm so present at them at that time. 0:18:30.845 --> 0:18:33.485 But I've got a very efficient clearing system, like my 0:18:33.565 --> 0:18:36.885 hard drives just constantly being deleted, delete, delete, delete. 0:18:36.565 --> 0:18:39.045 Where you don't have the storage. I don't have the storage. 0:18:39.085 --> 0:18:41.085 So I'll walk out, and then I won't I actually 0:18:41.125 --> 0:18:42.605 won't ever want to listen to it again. I want 0:18:42.605 --> 0:18:44.725 to do won't even talk about it again. And this 0:18:44.765 --> 0:18:48.045 show requires a lot of you know, there's a lot 0:18:48.045 --> 0:18:49.565 of You've got to take really good care of the 0:18:49.565 --> 0:18:52.085 people that you interview, and you've got to follow through 0:18:52.125 --> 0:18:54.765 on that process. And I just wasn't able to do 0:18:54.805 --> 0:18:55.885 that justice anymore. 0:18:56.085 --> 0:18:59.845 And I felt what I love is actually I. 0:18:59.805 --> 0:19:03.205 Want to listen to you interview people like I loved 0:19:03.805 --> 0:19:04.685 over Summer. 0:19:04.405 --> 0:19:07.045 I love the girl I'm interviewing right now, your lover 0:19:11.925 --> 0:19:12.685 meor freedman. 0:19:13.085 --> 0:19:16.045 I know you're desperate to escape, but you shall not. 0:19:16.205 --> 0:19:17.245 I know where the exits are. 0:19:17.365 --> 0:19:22.445 Yeah, no you don't. We've changed them. You're staying put. 0:19:26.085 --> 0:19:28.205 I think you're the best interviewer in Australia. I think 0:19:28.245 --> 0:19:32.525 you are. Oh calm down, you have because you're playful. 0:19:32.565 --> 0:19:34.685 Even when we did that interview which we ended up 0:19:34.685 --> 0:19:38.565 not publishing, you will so seamlessly because I was being interviewed, 0:19:38.605 --> 0:19:40.565 but I was also observing you, not to judge you, 0:19:40.605 --> 0:19:44.445 but just because I was interested in your practice. And 0:19:44.765 --> 0:19:48.125 you did that really tricky thing which you took me 0:19:48.205 --> 0:19:51.205 from tears and then you knew exactly when to just 0:19:51.685 --> 0:19:53.685 bridge to something funny and we both laughed. 0:19:53.765 --> 0:19:55.805 Yeah, and complete gear change. 0:19:55.805 --> 0:19:57.525 But you know, it's an interesting it's really rare. 0:19:57.525 --> 0:19:59.765 Most people can't do that, but in friendships you do 0:19:59.805 --> 0:20:02.685 it all the time. Rue people do it all the time. 0:20:02.925 --> 0:20:05.125 That's how you get your friends through, and that's how 0:20:05.165 --> 0:20:08.765 you navigate those moments where someone's really raw. 0:20:08.845 --> 0:20:10.765 And then you're like, it's true. 0:20:10.965 --> 0:20:14.285 You know, I'm curious about Jay saying you've gone beyond 0:20:14.325 --> 0:20:19.165 burnout so many times, and because of your relationship with 0:20:19.285 --> 0:20:26.645 him as a husband and a lover and a business partner. 0:20:26.725 --> 0:20:29.085 I know everyone says, I don't know how you could 0:20:29.125 --> 0:20:29.925 work with your partner. 0:20:29.965 --> 0:20:30.485 I never could. 0:20:31.445 --> 0:20:32.925 What do you say? 0:20:34.125 --> 0:20:36.005 I would have said the same thing. I would have 0:20:36.005 --> 0:20:37.005 said the same thing, but. 0:20:36.845 --> 0:20:40.645 It wasn't your intention was it. 0:20:39.485 --> 0:20:41.685 Was not my idea and it was not my intention. 0:20:42.165 --> 0:20:46.285 But I certainly wouldn't be here with Mum and MEA 0:20:46.285 --> 0:20:49.005 wouldn't be what it was no, if it wasn't for 0:20:49.045 --> 0:20:50.805 the two of us, Like he wouldn't have done it 0:20:50.805 --> 0:20:52.965 without me, and I certainly wouldn't have done it without him, 0:20:52.965 --> 0:20:54.885 and I wasn't. I'd already been doing it by myself 0:20:54.885 --> 0:20:59.325 for eighteen months, and i'd, you know, made no money 0:20:59.525 --> 0:21:02.445 for eighteen months. I'd built an audience, but I didn't 0:21:02.445 --> 0:21:05.325 know how to monetize it. I didn't have the skills 0:21:05.445 --> 0:21:08.045 or the bandwidth to do it, and I didn't have 0:21:08.085 --> 0:21:10.125 the vision that he did for the business. It's not 0:21:11.005 --> 0:21:14.325 I've got a business brain, but not the big picture 0:21:14.405 --> 0:21:16.365 business and not the you know, I don't. 0:21:16.405 --> 0:21:16.845 I can't. 0:21:17.245 --> 0:21:19.125 I wouldn't say I can't read a spreadsheet. I remember 0:21:19.165 --> 0:21:22.765 Zoe Foster Blake said to me that when she first 0:21:22.765 --> 0:21:25.805 started go to and she has a couple of business 0:21:26.005 --> 0:21:29.165 partners co partners, and she said she'd sit in meetings 0:21:29.325 --> 0:21:31.965 at first and be like, I don't understand the numbers, 0:21:31.965 --> 0:21:33.405 and then she's like, and then I realized that wasn't 0:21:33.445 --> 0:21:36.405 cute anymore. I don't do it to be cute, but 0:21:36.605 --> 0:21:40.645 I also like, I just can't things that I I mean, 0:21:40.645 --> 0:21:43.045 I suppose I could, and she has had to teach herself, 0:21:43.605 --> 0:21:45.485 but there's no way I could do what I have 0:21:45.645 --> 0:21:46.965 to do if I also had to. 0:21:46.925 --> 0:21:48.445 Do the other stuff. And I'm just not that good 0:21:48.445 --> 0:21:49.205 at the other stuff. 0:21:49.645 --> 0:21:52.325 Okay, but how good are you at being a wife? 0:21:53.005 --> 0:21:55.445 In terrible of all the r so bad? 0:21:56.045 --> 0:22:00.925 So let's just have a moment's pause for poor jas. 0:22:00.925 --> 0:22:05.965 He's very He's the nurture in this in our run. 0:22:06.165 --> 0:22:07.965 It's not that I don't nurture the kids and I 0:22:07.965 --> 0:22:11.085 don't love him. I love him, Madling. We've just celebrated 0:22:11.125 --> 0:22:12.885 our twenty fifth wedding anniversary. 0:22:13.005 --> 0:22:15.605 How did you celebrate for the first time? 0:22:15.685 --> 0:22:18.845 We remembered, Oh, and we went out to dinner, and 0:22:18.885 --> 0:22:22.725 we've ever done that before. Really, we're not like that, 0:22:22.765 --> 0:22:24.485 Like when we don't give each other presents. We're not 0:22:24.525 --> 0:22:28.245 present people. It's not our love language. We're real homebodies. 0:22:28.285 --> 0:22:32.205 We love staying at home. So I often think that 0:22:32.525 --> 0:22:36.045 if you've got a certain if every relationship has a 0:22:36.085 --> 0:22:38.885 certain amount of petrol in the tank, yes, until it 0:22:38.965 --> 0:22:42.725 sort of just runs out. Yeah, working together just you 0:22:42.725 --> 0:22:44.605 you know, uses up that petrol. 0:22:44.725 --> 0:22:49.325 Well, that's why that's why I ask. Yeah, I can't 0:22:49.325 --> 0:22:53.645 even conceive of Like earlier last year, I was kind 0:22:53.645 --> 0:22:57.365 of in between managers. And Peter, my husband who I 0:22:57.405 --> 0:23:00.885 also love, who I've been with for twenty one years, 0:23:01.525 --> 0:23:03.405 he was kind of helping out for a while and 0:23:03.445 --> 0:23:08.805 it was really terrible, not because he's terrible, he's really 0:23:08.845 --> 0:23:12.005 good at business and is whatever sexy, but the marrying that, yeah, 0:23:12.205 --> 0:23:15.005 marrying a thing. The fantasy is that you're going to 0:23:15.045 --> 0:23:17.365 go in like do you ever go into Jason's office, 0:23:17.365 --> 0:23:19.405 shut the door behind you and just kind of take 0:23:19.445 --> 0:23:19.805 you up. 0:23:22.325 --> 0:23:23.205 Because that's great. 0:23:23.525 --> 0:23:26.645 Can you imagine if we touch each other in meetings 0:23:26.725 --> 0:23:30.405 or something, Everyone's like ew, mum and dad, ew, No, 0:23:30.605 --> 0:23:33.325 we don't do that. And that's why it's probably been 0:23:33.765 --> 0:23:37.165 the best thing for our business and probably the worst 0:23:37.165 --> 0:23:39.005 thing for our relationship is being in business. 0:23:39.085 --> 0:23:41.605 Although I've also seen. 0:23:41.845 --> 0:23:46.005 Relationships where both couples are pulling in different directions. Either 0:23:46.045 --> 0:23:48.045 one of them has a big job and the everyone doesn't, 0:23:48.565 --> 0:23:51.525 or they've both got big jobs or whatever, and there's 0:23:51.565 --> 0:23:55.085 that constant competitiveness of whose job is more important or 0:23:55.125 --> 0:23:56.765 whose role is more important. 0:23:56.805 --> 0:23:59.045 And a lot of actors, if actors go out with 0:23:59.085 --> 0:24:01.325 other actors, they have a very similar kind of imagine 0:24:01.325 --> 0:24:03.845 what that would be like terrible madness to go out 0:24:03.845 --> 0:24:04.005 with it. 0:24:04.205 --> 0:24:05.885 Yeah, and I think. 0:24:07.645 --> 0:24:10.965 You know, for us, we've at least always been pulling 0:24:11.005 --> 0:24:13.605 in the same direction, you know, and in that way 0:24:13.645 --> 0:24:16.405 it's very efficient. So we've been able to tag team 0:24:17.125 --> 0:24:21.085 with kids and with work. But it means that you 0:24:21.245 --> 0:24:23.965 can't like a couple of years ago, Jace had a 0:24:24.245 --> 0:24:26.765 tried to have a sabbatical for three months, and he 0:24:26.805 --> 0:24:29.045 could have a sabbatical from the business, but he couldn't 0:24:29.045 --> 0:24:30.165 have a sabbatical from. 0:24:30.005 --> 0:24:32.725 His wife, who is also part of the business. 0:24:33.045 --> 0:24:35.645 And so when I would bring him and you know, 0:24:35.725 --> 0:24:37.845 want to talk about something or be upset about something, 0:24:39.005 --> 0:24:40.365 that was really hard. 0:24:40.805 --> 0:24:41.525 So it's like he. 0:24:41.485 --> 0:24:44.725 Couldn't get away from me and from me. And since 0:24:44.725 --> 0:24:47.965 we've appointed a new CEO this year and he has 0:24:48.045 --> 0:24:51.045 moved into this role of executive chairman and he is 0:24:51.165 --> 0:24:54.605 not we don't work together day to day anymore. That's 0:24:54.645 --> 0:24:57.885 been so good, Oh my god, we've rediscovered each other. 0:24:59.125 --> 0:25:01.885 Wonderful. Yeah, it's been wonderful. 0:25:01.685 --> 0:25:04.685 Because there are aspects that you I mean, you just 0:25:04.725 --> 0:25:07.365 can't serve us all parts at the same time. 0:25:07.765 --> 0:25:10.605 And it's really hard to be in meeting with someone 0:25:10.645 --> 0:25:13.525 you know, so like you behave a certain way at home, 0:25:14.125 --> 0:25:16.765 and like you know, when you're partner shitting you, you 0:25:16.805 --> 0:25:19.285 give them a look across the table or you whatever. 0:25:19.445 --> 0:25:19.725 Fact. 0:25:20.525 --> 0:25:22.285 And then we're in meetings and some people here have 0:25:22.325 --> 0:25:24.765 been in those meetings, you know, many years ago when 0:25:24.765 --> 0:25:28.285 we would have discussions, we'd have Barney's about work, and 0:25:28.285 --> 0:25:30.205 they'd be sort of uncomfortable. People get used to it 0:25:30.205 --> 0:25:32.525 pretty quickly, but one time I had to say, you 0:25:32.525 --> 0:25:34.125 know that other people can see the look that you're 0:25:34.165 --> 0:25:36.165 giving me across the table, and he would have to 0:25:36.165 --> 0:25:38.325 say the same to me, because you kind of just 0:25:38.525 --> 0:25:41.085 forget that you've got to behave in a way in 0:25:41.125 --> 0:25:44.685 front of other people. Yes, and it's yeah, it's really 0:25:44.805 --> 0:25:47.565 it's been really challenging. But I'm very proud that we 0:25:47.605 --> 0:25:52.525 are still married, yeah, and that we have continued to 0:25:52.725 --> 0:25:58.085 build the business together. And hopefully now that we're able 0:25:58.165 --> 0:26:01.405 to you know, bring in new people and take a 0:26:01.445 --> 0:26:05.165 step back, it means that we'll be able to be 0:26:05.325 --> 0:26:08.685 married again and also just have some space from each other. Yes, 0:26:08.965 --> 0:26:11.485 you know, yeh, Like it's quite nice to get home 0:26:11.525 --> 0:26:14.325 and go how is your day and not know, yeah, 0:26:14.805 --> 0:26:15.765 you know, that's quite nice. 0:26:15.805 --> 0:26:16.805 Looking forward to seeing each other. 0:26:16.845 --> 0:26:20.805 Okay, So if your plan is to make some more 0:26:20.845 --> 0:26:24.005 time for yourself, really, and how would you feel that? 0:26:24.045 --> 0:26:25.765 And it's not gonna be empty time if I. 0:26:25.685 --> 0:26:28.925 Know you, No, But is that. 0:26:29.045 --> 0:26:32.205 Commensurate with what Jace wants for himself as well? 0:26:32.605 --> 0:26:36.645 The difference is that he loves Muma, Mea, and and 0:26:37.285 --> 0:26:39.045 our core purpose being to make the water a better 0:26:39.045 --> 0:26:41.325 place for women girls actually came from him. I couldn't 0:26:41.405 --> 0:26:43.445 articulate it, which is very embarrassing because I'm the writer 0:26:43.525 --> 0:26:46.405 in the family, but he was the one. And I 0:26:46.525 --> 0:26:48.325 remember he wrote it down on a piece of paper 0:26:48.365 --> 0:26:50.045 and he's like, I think it's this and because I 0:26:50.045 --> 0:26:52.445 was more just like it's the vibe, yes, the women 0:26:52.525 --> 0:26:55.525 and the vibe because I've like, it's the water ice women. 0:26:55.725 --> 0:26:58.565 I couldn't even articulate it, but he could. So he 0:26:58.765 --> 0:27:01.205 obviously feels very strongly about our core purpose, but he's 0:27:01.245 --> 0:27:04.205 got lots of interests and hobbies and things that he 0:27:04.245 --> 0:27:06.125 wants to do outside of Mumma. 0:27:07.045 --> 0:27:08.365 We're so well. 0:27:08.365 --> 0:27:09.925 The problem is that my hobby, it is my work, 0:27:09.965 --> 0:27:12.485 which is I think been one of the big drivers 0:27:12.885 --> 0:27:15.685 of mum and Maya. But it makes it very hard 0:27:16.765 --> 0:27:21.365 to rest it really does. And so for me, the 0:27:21.405 --> 0:27:23.565 time that I get closest to resting is I have 0:27:23.645 --> 0:27:26.565 a day a week with Luna, which being a grandmother 0:27:26.605 --> 0:27:28.565 is so different to being a mother in that you 0:27:28.605 --> 0:27:29.885 just can be very present. 0:27:29.565 --> 0:27:32.045 Because it's like one day. I know people say that, Yeah, 0:27:32.045 --> 0:27:33.605 I know, I never understood it. 0:27:33.645 --> 0:27:35.925 Yeah, I don't understand. I still don't understand that. 0:27:35.965 --> 0:27:39.085 You know, it is all of the same amount of love. 0:27:39.245 --> 0:27:41.125 It's actually really weird because it's all of the same 0:27:41.125 --> 0:27:44.285 amount of love, except they don't live in your house, 0:27:44.325 --> 0:27:46.485 which is kind of wonderful, but also. 0:27:46.365 --> 0:27:48.045 You're coming to them devastation every time. 0:27:48.925 --> 0:27:51.485 But there's no mental load. There's not one bit of 0:27:51.525 --> 0:27:55.125 mental load. There's no guilt, you know, like I'm not like, 0:27:55.205 --> 0:27:57.685 oh no, what if she hasn't eaten enough vegetables? Yeah right, 0:27:59.405 --> 0:28:03.565 bake beans again, like she hat a bicky likes just love. 0:28:03.925 --> 0:28:04.765 It's just love. 0:28:04.845 --> 0:28:07.565 And it's not like she stayed the night. She stays 0:28:07.645 --> 0:28:10.125 night a lot now, but the first time she said 0:28:10.125 --> 0:28:12.325 the night, and if she does stay and she wakes 0:28:12.405 --> 0:28:14.405 up in the night when she was a little bit younger, 0:28:15.205 --> 0:28:16.885 and you know that feeling when your baby wakes up 0:28:16.885 --> 0:28:18.565 in the night, or you totally wakes up the night 0:28:18.565 --> 0:28:21.285 your kid. You've got like there's a lot of feelings. 0:28:21.285 --> 0:28:24.205 It's like irritation and resentment and a bit of panic 0:28:24.205 --> 0:28:25.965 and what if this never what if I never sleep? 0:28:26.325 --> 0:28:28.205 But then you're also pleased to see them in. 0:28:28.165 --> 0:28:32.685 A weird well yeah, and then I scanned my body 0:28:32.685 --> 0:28:35.405 for any feelings of any negative feelings. 0:28:35.405 --> 0:28:37.565 Not one. It was just like, yay, I get to. 0:28:37.565 --> 0:28:39.685 Sniff a little face, I get to like give her 0:28:39.645 --> 0:28:41.045 a little cuddle and give her a bottle, and what 0:28:41.765 --> 0:28:45.565 you Oh, that's been fraught. She calls me nana, So 0:28:45.805 --> 0:28:47.365 I thought I didn't want to be called nana and 0:28:47.765 --> 0:28:51.045 whole anxiety, which I think is really common in people 0:28:51.085 --> 0:28:55.365 when they become particular grandmothers. Yeah, because it's about your 0:28:55.405 --> 0:28:59.325 identity and grandma. Like it suddenly seems very important not 0:28:59.405 --> 0:29:01.565 to be called nana or grandma because I think what 0:29:01.605 --> 0:29:03.965 it meant for us was a little old lady with 0:29:04.005 --> 0:29:07.085 gray hair whose wife was over and we don't hear 0:29:07.245 --> 0:29:11.205 she like that. I don't think she you know, like me, 0:29:12.005 --> 0:29:13.845 so I don't. 0:29:15.165 --> 0:29:15.485 Really. 0:29:16.445 --> 0:29:18.245 This is when I was going through my whole identity crisis. 0:29:18.285 --> 0:29:20.125 I didn't want to be that and so it became 0:29:20.245 --> 0:29:21.685 very important to not be called that and to be 0:29:21.725 --> 0:29:25.405 called maybe me and me, I would decide, babies decide, don't. Well, 0:29:25.445 --> 0:29:27.325 she just didn't call me anything. But what you don't 0:29:27.325 --> 0:29:29.885 realize is that, for the first I don't know until 0:29:29.885 --> 0:29:33.165 they can talk, it's not about what they call you, 0:29:33.285 --> 0:29:34.885 or not about what you call yourself. It's about what 0:29:34.885 --> 0:29:36.925 everyone else calls you, because it's like here, you know, 0:29:37.125 --> 0:29:39.845 let's here's nana or here you go to And so 0:29:39.965 --> 0:29:43.525 every time they'd say grandma, I die a little bit inside, right, 0:29:43.565 --> 0:29:46.245 And then I just realized, stop sucking making, trying to 0:29:46.245 --> 0:29:48.925 make me happen. It's not gonna happen. No one's calling 0:29:48.925 --> 0:29:51.325 you that. It's like trying to give yourself a nickname. 0:29:51.405 --> 0:29:52.085 It doesn't work. 0:29:52.245 --> 0:29:54.045 Yes, And so I just went, you know, I loved 0:29:54.085 --> 0:29:57.085 my nana so much. My kids call my mum Nana. 0:29:57.565 --> 0:29:58.525 I'm like, I'll be Nana. 0:29:58.525 --> 0:30:00.365 There's only two people who could be Nana, and I'll 0:30:00.405 --> 0:30:02.365 be one of them. And then I had my latest 0:30:02.365 --> 0:30:05.165 neuroses was that she also called Jesse's mum nana. 0:30:05.325 --> 0:30:06.645 Oh, so how do you different? 0:30:06.805 --> 0:30:09.565 I went into a panic, and I'm like, then I 0:30:09.565 --> 0:30:12.005 tried to get her a call because Jess's mum's so 0:30:12.005 --> 0:30:15.125 so cruisy, and so I'm like, maybe call her Nan. 0:30:15.245 --> 0:30:16.965 And I was trying to control what she called her 0:30:17.645 --> 0:30:20.165 and was just like, knock yourself out, whatever you want 0:30:20.165 --> 0:30:22.965 to be called. But now she just I tried to 0:30:23.005 --> 0:30:25.565 get her to call and Nan, but she won't and 0:30:25.605 --> 0:30:27.125 so we're both nana and I'm just like. 0:30:27.085 --> 0:30:30.165 Who gives a shit? And you can tell he well, lots. 0:30:30.045 --> 0:30:31.405 Of people I said it on out that and lots 0:30:31.405 --> 0:30:34.045 of it was very funny conversation. Everyone was telling me 0:30:34.085 --> 0:30:36.885 how they they had two nana's, but one was like. 0:30:39.845 --> 0:30:43.405 Husband's got old Nana, We've got old Nana, Lil, we've 0:30:43.405 --> 0:30:45.805 got Nana ree his mum Marie. 0:30:45.925 --> 0:30:48.325 So kids work it out. They know the difference. 0:30:48.645 --> 0:30:51.565 But that speaks to my insecurity because I'm all about leaderboards, 0:30:51.565 --> 0:30:54.925 and I was worried that I would be low down 0:30:54.965 --> 0:30:57.605 on the leaderboard of who she loved. This is how 0:30:57.605 --> 0:30:58.485 I think about things. 0:30:58.525 --> 0:31:03.485 Do you think that, because I honestly, if there was 0:31:03.605 --> 0:31:08.205 anyone to delight a child, it's your elf and energy. 0:31:08.365 --> 0:31:11.445 Like seriously, well maybe in security. 0:31:11.645 --> 0:31:13.685 It's insecurity, I guess, but it's also how I make 0:31:13.805 --> 0:31:17.885 sense of the world because I'm sort of chaotic and 0:31:17.925 --> 0:31:20.525 I need to I like rules and I like to 0:31:20.645 --> 0:31:24.445 know where I stand. I like feedback, I like I 0:31:24.605 --> 0:31:27.285 like knowing things. So I was very much well at 0:31:27.285 --> 0:31:29.845 the top of the leaderboards Jesse and then Luca, and 0:31:29.845 --> 0:31:33.925 then Claire, Jesse's twin sister, and then Anne, Jesse's mum, and. 0:31:33.765 --> 0:31:37.085 Then maybe me. So I'm like, okay, I'm number five. 0:31:37.285 --> 0:31:43.085 So Anne suggested that I just be called five, and 0:31:43.525 --> 0:31:46.405 I was like, I got really upset about that, and 0:31:46.445 --> 0:31:49.445 because anyway, it's just I told you I've been how 0:31:49.445 --> 0:31:53.525 I lost the last two years, like it's been, I've 0:31:53.565 --> 0:31:55.165 been all over the shop. 0:31:55.085 --> 0:31:56.445 And I've not known who I am. 0:31:56.885 --> 0:31:59.325 I think because I've seen you a little bit fleetingly 0:31:59.365 --> 0:32:03.165 in those times and always lovely actually, but it's felt 0:32:03.205 --> 0:32:06.365 to me like you're rebuilding. 0:32:06.885 --> 0:32:08.365 Yes, that's exactly right. 0:32:08.845 --> 0:32:13.405 I could see it like being in a crystalis yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:32:13.445 --> 0:32:15.445 and not that I was a caterpillar and now in 0:32:15.485 --> 0:32:16.485 Butterfly it's not like that. 0:32:16.565 --> 0:32:18.525 But it was like it was. 0:32:18.485 --> 0:32:22.125 A different phase of my life and a different you know, 0:32:22.165 --> 0:32:23.885 it doesn't You don't just go from one chapter to 0:32:23.925 --> 0:32:24.805 the next chapter. 0:32:24.925 --> 0:32:29.565 And transitions are very painful and no matter where they are, 0:32:29.685 --> 0:32:31.925 a new job, new, like anything. 0:32:31.765 --> 0:32:35.285 That's very hard, that's very what you leave behind and fear. 0:32:35.485 --> 0:32:38.205 But stepping into the unknown is always uncertainty. 0:32:38.245 --> 0:32:40.325 I'm not good with any of that. I'm really not 0:32:40.405 --> 0:32:43.405 good with. But criminals, I don't. 0:32:43.445 --> 0:32:44.885 I think most people aren't. 0:32:45.165 --> 0:32:45.405 Really. 0:32:45.485 --> 0:32:48.845 I just think you expect more of yourself. I don't 0:32:48.845 --> 0:32:51.325 know what I mean. I get very impatient. I'm like 0:32:51.325 --> 0:32:53.485 when I again, I know I'm the side. 0:32:53.525 --> 0:32:54.965 Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Am I 0:32:55.005 --> 0:32:57.565 in this new phase? Yet? Do I understand who I am? Yet? 0:32:57.965 --> 0:33:01.365 And it was years of not. 0:33:00.125 --> 0:33:02.685 Not knowing what I wanted not knowing, and I just 0:33:02.725 --> 0:33:03.925 find that very inefficient. 0:33:07.205 --> 0:33:10.325 Mayor Friedman, please stay to laugh to this wheat break 0:33:10.765 --> 0:33:20.125 twisted my own. I'm just thinking about what you've built, 0:33:20.885 --> 0:33:24.765 and I mean you built it for women, women and girls, 0:33:25.725 --> 0:33:28.045 but I think the woman and the girl that you 0:33:28.125 --> 0:33:31.925 built it for was yourself, because do you know what 0:33:32.005 --> 0:33:34.765 I mean? If you think about if you think about 0:33:34.805 --> 0:33:37.405 the conversations that happen every day and the things that 0:33:37.965 --> 0:33:41.645 everyone's exposed to and that you bring to people, and 0:33:41.405 --> 0:33:44.885 the little nugget of cheese or the dead mouse that 0:33:44.925 --> 0:33:49.885 the cat leaves at the doorstep. All of that seems 0:33:49.925 --> 0:33:53.445 like it might have been for you to find yourself 0:33:55.085 --> 0:33:56.965 or to bring something to yourself. 0:33:57.805 --> 0:34:02.565 Yes, I think because I am so basic, I'm very common, 0:34:03.165 --> 0:34:05.965 and I say that in a way like I'm very. 0:34:07.205 --> 0:34:08.685 I am very ordinary. 0:34:08.805 --> 0:34:11.125 And the thing that I feel and the things that 0:34:11.165 --> 0:34:14.165 I'm interested in are not the things that everybody feels 0:34:14.205 --> 0:34:17.205 and they're interested in, But a lot of people feel 0:34:17.245 --> 0:34:21.685 and are interested in those things too. So often I'm 0:34:21.685 --> 0:34:23.965 always an observer of my own behavior, and I know 0:34:24.045 --> 0:34:26.685 that when my behavior is shifting from a consumer point 0:34:26.725 --> 0:34:29.925 of view, a content more likely that correct. So like 0:34:30.445 --> 0:34:32.245 when I didn't know how to start a business and 0:34:32.285 --> 0:34:34.645 I started a lady startup, or when I was interested 0:34:34.645 --> 0:34:36.765 in perimenopause but there was nothing out there and it 0:34:36.765 --> 0:34:39.445 felt very uncool, and we started the very we did 0:34:39.485 --> 0:34:42.405 the very Perry Summit. And it's kind of like, what's next, 0:34:42.445 --> 0:34:43.645 What's next? 0:34:44.125 --> 0:34:47.165 What is next? I'm working on something. 0:34:48.005 --> 0:34:51.245 Yeah, I'm working on a little secret thing. Oh yeah, 0:34:51.565 --> 0:34:53.445 And it's not secret because I'm being koy. 0:34:53.645 --> 0:34:58.845 It's secret because I just want to see what it is. Like. 0:34:59.125 --> 0:35:01.925 One of the things I find I'm not suited to 0:35:01.965 --> 0:35:03.565 being in a business of this size. 0:35:03.805 --> 0:35:04.285 I'm just not. 0:35:04.445 --> 0:35:06.525 I don't have the patience for it. I don't have 0:35:07.285 --> 0:35:10.125 I just I don't want to be in meetings and 0:35:10.685 --> 0:35:12.565 I have to go through layers, and you need all 0:35:12.605 --> 0:35:15.245 of that at a company the size. You need processes 0:35:15.285 --> 0:35:19.365 and layers and strategies and schedules. I just want to 0:35:19.365 --> 0:35:23.245 work on a couple of little things and it's still 0:35:23.365 --> 0:35:24.205 a bit embryonic. 0:35:24.445 --> 0:35:28.565 And until it's done, I don't commercialize it. I don't 0:35:28.565 --> 0:35:31.925 want to, and don't jinx it. It's not even jinxing it. 0:35:31.925 --> 0:35:35.605 It's just that I'll kind of lose energy for it 0:35:35.685 --> 0:35:40.125 and lose interest in it, because you know, the economics 0:35:40.125 --> 0:35:43.885 of making content is that it'll have to be sold, 0:35:43.925 --> 0:35:45.325 and it will have to be sponsored, and we'll have 0:35:45.365 --> 0:35:47.045 to you know, we'll have to work out when in 0:35:47.045 --> 0:35:50.005 the schedule it should happen, and blah blah blah, and 0:35:50.125 --> 0:35:52.125 all of that. I completely understand, because I think a 0:35:52.125 --> 0:35:55.325 lot of people don't get that content costs money to create. 0:35:56.485 --> 0:35:59.165 You know why now, because we're used to getting it 0:35:59.205 --> 0:36:02.565 for nothing. Yes, people don't even buy a newspaper anymore. 0:36:02.605 --> 0:36:04.525 But do you know what we pay money for water. 0:36:04.925 --> 0:36:09.525 We understand that water cost money, and yet content is 0:36:09.565 --> 0:36:13.885 really undervalued. And I think that's both the best and 0:36:13.925 --> 0:36:16.165 worst thing about the Internet. You know, it's democratized who 0:36:16.165 --> 0:36:18.085 can make content, which I think is wonderful. I couldn't 0:36:18.085 --> 0:36:20.765 have built a media company without the Internet with Jays, 0:36:20.845 --> 0:36:23.005 but you know I couldn't. 0:36:23.205 --> 0:36:25.565 I couldn't buy a TV license or you. 0:36:25.525 --> 0:36:29.925 Know, start my own magae buy a TV license now exactly, 0:36:30.205 --> 0:36:31.125 get one for a hundred. 0:36:32.405 --> 0:36:33.685 But that's been good. 0:36:33.725 --> 0:36:36.605 But the bad thing is that people think that it 0:36:36.725 --> 0:36:38.845 doesn't take time and effort. 0:36:38.605 --> 0:36:42.925 And expertise to create good quality content. Yes, and this 0:36:42.965 --> 0:36:46.485 is good quality content, really good quality content. This is 0:36:47.085 --> 0:36:49.845 like if I think about the things that I've got 0:36:50.125 --> 0:36:52.725 through Mamamera, and I've not been the most avid consumer 0:36:52.765 --> 0:36:57.365 of anything online, particularly not through those years of intense 0:36:57.485 --> 0:37:00.085 child rearing and stuff and leukemia and all of that. 0:37:00.325 --> 0:37:02.045 So I wasn't I've just been like a. 0:37:02.805 --> 0:37:05.605 How do you think that that experience of having your 0:37:05.685 --> 0:37:10.085 eldest get leukemia? How do you think I know you're 0:37:10.125 --> 0:37:13.725 not a very online person. No, how do you think 0:37:13.765 --> 0:37:16.965 it would have been made either better or worse by 0:37:17.005 --> 0:37:20.765 having the Internet at that time, both for community because 0:37:20.765 --> 0:37:22.605 I know a lot of people who've either the loved 0:37:22.645 --> 0:37:27.485 ones with cancer of cancer themselves who whether it's group chats, 0:37:28.005 --> 0:37:30.485 you know, what was your village through that time. 0:37:30.525 --> 0:37:32.325 Because you're also to keep it secret. 0:37:32.845 --> 0:37:37.325 Yes, well secret, not to our friends and not to 0:37:37.365 --> 0:37:40.605 our neighbors, and not to in fact, most of the 0:37:40.645 --> 0:37:42.325 people in the media knew about it. 0:37:42.365 --> 0:37:43.565 I found that extraordinary. 0:37:43.485 --> 0:37:45.885 Yes, I didn't know about it, and not that we 0:37:45.965 --> 0:37:46.485 knew each. 0:37:46.325 --> 0:37:48.845 Other well then, and I was in Melbourne, you're in city, yes, 0:37:48.885 --> 0:37:49.205 But the. 0:37:49.205 --> 0:37:52.445 Fact that the media, particularly the Melbourne media, knew and 0:37:52.525 --> 0:37:54.485 it was such an open secret and everybody kept it 0:37:54.565 --> 0:37:58.325 quiet for the years, I thought was such a tribute 0:37:58.565 --> 0:38:03.085 to how you're the esteem in which you're held in 0:38:03.125 --> 0:38:05.245 our industry because that. 0:38:05.325 --> 0:38:06.165 Was a big story. 0:38:06.645 --> 0:38:09.125 It was a big story, really, and at the time 0:38:09.925 --> 0:38:13.805 I think, I mean talk about hanging by three and 0:38:13.885 --> 0:38:17.485 I don't think I had the energy to even address it, 0:38:18.045 --> 0:38:20.445 and it was twofold. It was partly that it was Lewis, 0:38:20.485 --> 0:38:23.085 our eldest son, who was six when he was diagnosed, 0:38:23.165 --> 0:38:30.205 and partly it was not our story to tell. We 0:38:30.205 --> 0:38:34.565 were like the custodian of him through this terrible time. 0:38:35.725 --> 0:38:38.725 But also I didn't have the energy. I didn't even 0:38:38.805 --> 0:38:41.725 have the energy to like sometimes if I'd bump into 0:38:41.765 --> 0:38:44.645 someone I saw and they'd go house Lewis, I didn't 0:38:44.645 --> 0:38:47.525 even have that. Oh, so the thought of taking on 0:38:47.765 --> 0:38:51.965 then the media aspect of it was completely. 0:38:51.365 --> 0:38:54.365 You had this circle that closed around you. But similar 0:38:54.445 --> 0:38:56.805 to you know, so self indulgent me saying I was 0:38:56.805 --> 0:38:58.685 so burnt out and it was so hard deciding what 0:38:58.765 --> 0:39:01.005 to be called. You had a child that was battling 0:39:01.005 --> 0:39:02.885 cancer and you had to turn up at work on 0:39:02.965 --> 0:39:05.285 breakfast radio every single day. It's not like you could 0:39:05.285 --> 0:39:06.325 say I'm taking a year off. 0:39:06.445 --> 0:39:10.565 No. But also this is why I understand what you're 0:39:10.605 --> 0:39:15.525 saying about work. Work is a salvation. Work is a 0:39:15.565 --> 0:39:17.805 salvation for us. I mean, yeah, it is for us, 0:39:17.965 --> 0:39:20.965 and it was for me, and it just to have 0:39:21.045 --> 0:39:23.525 a place where and I didn't tune up every day. 0:39:23.525 --> 0:39:26.045 And there were a couple of people that were just 0:39:26.085 --> 0:39:30.205 so fantastic, other comedians who were like call us any time, 0:39:30.325 --> 0:39:32.365 you know, Mick molloy and Halliah and. 0:39:33.085 --> 0:39:33.645 Will be there. 0:39:33.725 --> 0:39:36.885 They had your back. Yeah, they were fantastic. I was 0:39:36.885 --> 0:39:40.805 doing breakfast Radio with Hughesy in Melbourne at the time, 0:39:41.405 --> 0:39:44.885 but there were times when it would be the only time. 0:39:45.045 --> 0:39:48.085 Sometimes I'd only get in there once for the week, right, 0:39:48.765 --> 0:39:51.325 and it would be the only time in the week 0:39:51.965 --> 0:39:56.245 that wasn't about cancer, the only time. And so even 0:39:56.285 --> 0:39:59.085 though I was a bit wobbly, I was very hollow inside. 0:39:59.605 --> 0:40:02.005 But the muscles that you train, and I think this 0:40:02.085 --> 0:40:04.045 in life anyway. I always say it to my children. 0:40:05.045 --> 0:40:08.205 The muscles that you train will be your strongest muscles. 0:40:08.685 --> 0:40:12.005 And because I had been doing breakfast radio for so 0:40:12.125 --> 0:40:15.285 many years, and doing breakfast radio you have to wake 0:40:15.325 --> 0:40:18.845 up whistling and it's like you coming into the office here. Yeah. 0:40:18.885 --> 0:40:24.005 So my muscles to be optimistic, to be cheerful, to 0:40:24.085 --> 0:40:27.805 be funny, yeah, just and to be and to enjoy 0:40:27.885 --> 0:40:32.165 the world are very strong muscles. And so I get 0:40:32.285 --> 0:40:35.525 really annoyed in my household when people are grumpy. I 0:40:35.645 --> 0:40:37.765 hate fucking bad mood people. 0:40:38.005 --> 0:40:41.885 Yep, but you're not. That's interesting because the downside of 0:40:41.885 --> 0:40:43.805 that is toxic positivity. But you're not that. 0:40:44.565 --> 0:40:46.165 What is toxic positivity? 0:40:46.485 --> 0:40:49.325 That's kind of like look at the bright side. 0:40:49.485 --> 0:40:52.885 Yeah yeah, yeah, no, no, no, I no, I don't 0:40:52.885 --> 0:40:53.365 think I'm that. 0:40:53.965 --> 0:40:58.285 It's like forcing everybody to not be able to experience 0:40:58.285 --> 0:41:00.685 their full range of emotions. You're not that, because that 0:41:00.685 --> 0:41:02.605 can be quite controlling and quite toxic. 0:41:02.965 --> 0:41:07.445 No, but I think it's more about, certainly breakfast radio, 0:41:07.485 --> 0:41:10.485 which is probably a metaphor for life. You're waking up 0:41:10.565 --> 0:41:16.245 to the world. My job is to give listeners the 0:41:16.285 --> 0:41:20.805 gift of faith. Faith in the day, faith that everything 0:41:20.805 --> 0:41:23.805 will be all right, Faith that you are not alone 0:41:24.005 --> 0:41:27.125 going through this, Faith that once you get out there, 0:41:27.205 --> 0:41:29.765 it's going to be great. It'll be fine. It won't 0:41:29.765 --> 0:41:32.885 be without challenges, but you're going to be fine because 0:41:32.965 --> 0:41:36.965 you've got me, you've got him, we've got us. And 0:41:37.005 --> 0:41:42.365 that also things in the world that might be ludicrous, 0:41:42.405 --> 0:41:47.005 that might be frightening if you stop, if you don't 0:41:47.045 --> 0:41:49.285 walk into the dark room with your eyes shut because 0:41:49.285 --> 0:41:51.365 you're scared of what you see. But if you actually 0:41:51.365 --> 0:41:53.205 open your eyes and you look across the room, there's 0:41:53.205 --> 0:41:59.885 someone else there. You can turn that moment into something humorous. 0:42:00.005 --> 0:42:01.045 So who is that for you? 0:42:01.645 --> 0:42:04.045 If you were that for everyone during that dark time, 0:42:04.125 --> 0:42:04.965 who is that for you? 0:42:08.525 --> 0:42:14.405 My mother in law, Marie Peter's mum Peter to a 0:42:14.445 --> 0:42:17.045 certain extent, but that was also very hard, that was 0:42:17.485 --> 0:42:20.805 you know, a lot of relationships break up. Yeah, yeah, 0:42:21.005 --> 0:42:25.325 and kids also, I'm very you know, cognizant of the 0:42:25.365 --> 0:42:27.445 fact we had a good outcome. 0:42:27.485 --> 0:42:29.765 So and was touching. 0:42:29.925 --> 0:42:33.525 Yeah, and the people that didn't, the children that fell 0:42:33.605 --> 0:42:34.365 along the way. 0:42:34.765 --> 0:42:39.245 Would you sometimes in breaks just cry or you would 0:42:39.245 --> 0:42:41.165 just be in there and you would be like, right, 0:42:41.925 --> 0:42:43.925 the shutters are coming up or they're coming down, but 0:42:44.125 --> 0:42:45.125 I'm like no. 0:42:45.285 --> 0:42:47.885 In the break, we'd be talking about what was going on. 0:42:48.245 --> 0:42:50.245 Hu's at some point go say, how are things? 0:42:50.325 --> 0:42:51.325 How's it? Louis? 0:42:52.525 --> 0:42:54.005 We talk about it, and then you. 0:42:53.965 --> 0:42:56.165 Would just clicking to gear and click out. 0:42:56.245 --> 0:43:01.085 Sometimes sometimes that was not not so much clicky, but 0:43:01.485 --> 0:43:06.565 you just have to start the scene again, what are 0:43:06.565 --> 0:43:08.365 you going to do? Four years? 0:43:09.525 --> 0:43:12.165 In my head, it was two four years. 0:43:12.165 --> 0:43:14.765 So for boys because of the lakini he had, because 0:43:14.765 --> 0:43:19.485 it hides, it hides in the lining, in the in 0:43:19.525 --> 0:43:22.205 the spinal cord and in the brain lining, and in 0:43:22.285 --> 0:43:26.045 boys in the testicles. So for girls the treatment is 0:43:26.845 --> 0:43:30.165 some good news. For girls, the treatment's much shorter. The 0:43:30.285 --> 0:43:34.205 girls four years boys, yeah, four years four years of 0:43:34.245 --> 0:43:37.645 chema yeah yeah, lumber punctures. 0:43:37.885 --> 0:43:40.805 You had more children in that time, didn't you. 0:43:40.685 --> 0:43:44.925 Know, I'd had I'd had Yarny. My youngest was five 0:43:44.965 --> 0:43:47.725 months old when Lewis was diagnosed, so we had four 0:43:47.805 --> 0:43:53.845 under six, and so when Lewis was diagnosed, I had 0:43:53.885 --> 0:43:57.725 to stop feeding Yarny, obviously our youngest. And like it 0:43:57.765 --> 0:44:00.485 was just like our daughter went to school too soon, 0:44:00.885 --> 0:44:03.445 because it was like, everybody's got to get out of 0:44:03.485 --> 0:44:04.805 the house because we're going to be at the hospital. 0:44:04.845 --> 0:44:07.005 Everyone's got to get on with things. Chop chop. Like 0:44:07.085 --> 0:44:10.365 it was a bit like that, and we didn't mean 0:44:10.445 --> 0:44:12.885 to be brutal, but it did. There was a period 0:44:12.925 --> 0:44:15.805 in which anyone else's ailment. 0:44:17.805 --> 0:44:18.645 A lot of sympathy. 0:44:18.965 --> 0:44:21.845 Yeah, because at one stage, Yanni, this is the worst 0:44:21.845 --> 0:44:24.885 thing in the world, had a broken wrist for two 0:44:24.965 --> 0:44:28.525 days and we didn't realize it because it wasn't lukem here. 0:44:28.565 --> 0:44:30.685 And it was only when Ray came over and she 0:44:30.765 --> 0:44:34.205 grabbed him to swing him around by his you know, 0:44:34.325 --> 0:44:37.085 grabbed him his hands swinging in a circle, and he 0:44:37.205 --> 0:44:41.245 let out this blood curdling yelp and it had a 0:44:41.245 --> 0:44:43.965 broken wrist from where he jumped off the bottom stamp. 0:44:44.165 --> 0:44:49.805 And how did you find the because you know, the 0:44:49.845 --> 0:44:54.245 squeaky wheel gets the oil. So you know, you are 0:44:54.285 --> 0:44:59.325 biologically programmed to focus all your attention on the weakest 0:44:59.325 --> 0:45:01.725 link and the most vulnerable, which was for four years. 0:45:02.445 --> 0:45:08.245 So at what point did that stop? Like, how did 0:45:08.245 --> 0:45:12.325 you get to the point where you trusted his recovery 0:45:13.165 --> 0:45:16.725 and you could look at your other kids and go mmmm. 0:45:17.525 --> 0:45:19.925 I mean, I'm sure it wasn't like a click up thing, 0:45:20.125 --> 0:45:22.245 but how did you navigate that? 0:45:22.645 --> 0:45:27.165 So when Lewis finished treatment, we stopped doing breakfast radio 0:45:27.205 --> 0:45:31.445 after twelve years men Hughsey, and he wanted to do 0:45:31.525 --> 0:45:34.045 more stand up, which is the opposite of you. 0:45:33.965 --> 0:45:35.325 Know, did you want to keep going? 0:45:36.165 --> 0:45:39.005 No? No, I didn't want to keep going, but I 0:45:39.045 --> 0:45:41.365 was happy for him to make the decision. I went unhappy. 0:45:41.405 --> 0:45:42.965 Whatever you want. Why didn't you want to keep going? 0:45:42.965 --> 0:45:44.285 The money's amazing. 0:45:44.525 --> 0:45:47.445 Because I wanted to have a time at home with 0:45:47.525 --> 0:45:54.845 yarny apropos boy to school, Yes exactly, because he had 0:45:54.885 --> 0:45:57.605 been like from the womb untimely ripped or from the 0:45:57.605 --> 0:46:00.765 boob untimely ripped. And I was always conscious of the 0:46:00.765 --> 0:46:03.565 fact that we had this little one who I had 0:46:03.645 --> 0:46:07.445 really not got to spend much time with her. If 0:46:07.445 --> 0:46:10.725 I did, it was in between hospital visits, and you know, 0:46:11.885 --> 0:46:14.525 so I took that. It turned out to be a year. 0:46:14.605 --> 0:46:15.925 I didn't know how long it was going to be. 0:46:16.765 --> 0:46:19.445 We finished during breakfast Radio, had a gorgeous fee Well, 0:46:19.445 --> 0:46:22.205 it was just beautiful, and I thought it might be forever. 0:46:22.405 --> 0:46:27.325 You know, when you worry you, No, it didn't worry me. No, 0:46:27.405 --> 0:46:28.525 it didn't worry me. 0:46:29.125 --> 0:46:31.205 But you went from making all of this money like 0:46:31.285 --> 0:46:34.765 the breakfast Radio particularly then not so much now, but 0:46:34.885 --> 0:46:38.525 then big best and biggest and most high profile job. 0:46:38.925 --> 0:46:40.005 You guys were iconic. 0:46:40.325 --> 0:46:43.925 Yeah, did you feel the need or you just felt 0:46:43.925 --> 0:46:47.245 I need to just catch my breath now, I think so. 0:46:47.325 --> 0:46:51.205 And then Peter uttered a phrase which as a modern woman, 0:46:51.365 --> 0:46:53.965 I had never heard in my life, and it was 0:46:54.005 --> 0:46:57.045 one of the greatest things any man has. It is 0:46:57.085 --> 0:47:01.245 the greatest thing any man's ever said to me. He said, darling, 0:47:01.405 --> 0:47:03.885 you don't have to work. I can look after both 0:47:03.925 --> 0:47:14.045 of us. My wowd God, suck it suck. It's like so, 0:47:15.125 --> 0:47:17.485 and I remember at the time you been the breadwinner 0:47:17.525 --> 0:47:17.885 before that. 0:47:18.205 --> 0:47:20.125 Yeah, you wear a lot of bread. 0:47:20.365 --> 0:47:23.325 Yeah, and you need a lot of bread for six people, 0:47:23.525 --> 0:47:27.045 Yeah you do. And so we'd made one of those 0:47:27.085 --> 0:47:30.805 decisions you know, the you know, practical decision that because 0:47:30.845 --> 0:47:34.005 I would earn more money than him, that he so 0:47:34.085 --> 0:47:36.485 he did that. Probably he was at home for probably 0:47:36.525 --> 0:47:40.965 about eighteen months, and then it just wasn't good for him. 0:47:41.045 --> 0:47:42.885 It was never a point of he was never like 0:47:42.925 --> 0:47:45.125 I don't want to do this. He was never resentful 0:47:45.245 --> 0:47:49.645 or whatever. But I'm just like working man wasn't enough 0:47:49.645 --> 0:47:52.965 for he needs to work. Yeah, like a working dog 0:47:53.085 --> 0:47:53.845 needs to work. 0:47:53.925 --> 0:47:59.205 Yeah. So I'm like, I'm working, I need to work. 0:47:59.405 --> 0:47:59.605 Yeah. 0:48:00.005 --> 0:48:00.205 Yeah. 0:48:00.285 --> 0:48:03.365 So anyway, so it actually gave me the liberty to 0:48:03.405 --> 0:48:07.125 say I'm going to be at home. I'm going to 0:48:07.205 --> 0:48:09.685 be at home, and it was such a great only 0:48:09.765 --> 0:48:13.165 ended up being one year, and it was a very 0:48:13.285 --> 0:48:16.965 challenging year from what I recall, Well, because I was 0:48:17.005 --> 0:48:17.565 at home. 0:48:18.085 --> 0:48:19.525 Yeah, I was going to stay careful. 0:48:19.565 --> 0:48:21.845 What you wish I was at home? 0:48:22.325 --> 0:48:24.045 Yeah? Did you feel irrelevant? 0:48:26.925 --> 0:48:29.085 I probably felt more irrelevant when we went and lived 0:48:29.085 --> 0:48:32.285 in Italy when we were in an Italian class and 0:48:32.445 --> 0:48:36.125 I said, and I thought, I was so proud with myself. 0:48:36.205 --> 0:48:40.525 I said, I'm I'm Molieria Cassa or whatever, I'm housewife. 0:48:41.605 --> 0:48:44.125 And if I said that in Australia at least a 0:48:44.125 --> 0:48:44.925 couple of people. 0:48:44.725 --> 0:48:47.125 In the road laugh and go, oh yeah, catlin Brook 0:48:48.205 --> 0:48:50.645 because they're like, yeah, it wasn't ironic. 0:48:50.965 --> 0:48:53.685 She is she's a housewife. Yeah. 0:48:53.965 --> 0:48:56.085 Interesting, So that was like a stripping back of ego 0:48:56.085 --> 0:48:57.085 because nobody knew you. 0:48:57.125 --> 0:49:02.605 That totally very great. I heartily recommend it, heartily. That's 0:49:02.605 --> 0:49:07.725 why I do yoga, because I need I need the humiliation. Yes, 0:49:08.085 --> 0:49:08.685 that's true. 0:49:08.925 --> 0:49:11.885 I have to having teenagers. What do you do? We're 0:49:11.925 --> 0:49:13.325 having teenage I don't count them. 0:49:13.405 --> 0:49:16.805 I don't count that. I don't count the steam's too high, 0:49:17.005 --> 0:49:19.965 terrible time. No, yeah, you grown up children. I know 0:49:20.045 --> 0:49:23.925 I bring, but I just don't. I can't take that on. 0:49:24.005 --> 0:49:27.005 It's like women, you know, when you go shopping with 0:49:27.045 --> 0:49:29.645 a teenage daughter. You see it all the time at 0:49:29.685 --> 0:49:33.885 any Westfield and there's a woman with a certain posture. 0:49:34.565 --> 0:49:41.205 Yeah yeah, and the girls with it, and I'm just like, 0:49:41.325 --> 0:49:42.405 what are we doing? 0:49:42.845 --> 0:49:44.005 You do get through that? 0:49:44.285 --> 0:49:46.325 Like I'm now at the point because I know what 0:49:46.325 --> 0:49:48.645 you mean, I've done. I didn't realize that you would 0:49:48.645 --> 0:49:50.765 ever get through it. But my daughter, who just turned nineteen, 0:49:51.445 --> 0:49:53.765 now we can go shopping and it's delightful. 0:49:53.845 --> 0:49:54.725 I think our girls are the same. 0:49:55.205 --> 0:49:58.805 It's delightful and I will actually ask her advice and 0:49:58.845 --> 0:50:01.765 she'll give it to me without making me feel like 0:50:01.805 --> 0:50:02.445 a piece of shit. 0:50:02.605 --> 0:50:05.925 Yeah, because I noticed, because I'm always, I think too 0:50:06.165 --> 0:50:09.285 maybe too aware of not giving them too much power, 0:50:09.645 --> 0:50:11.245 because you don't want to end up being one of 0:50:11.245 --> 0:50:15.765 those women whose self esteem has just been totally strip 0:50:15.885 --> 0:50:19.405 mind like a sloth scratching at a tree truck. There's 0:50:19.525 --> 0:50:22.685 nothing left because they've had years of should I where this? 0:50:22.885 --> 0:50:25.565 And the door's going? Where the gray one? Yeah? No, No, 0:50:26.045 --> 0:50:27.605 can't give away too much. You can't. 0:50:28.005 --> 0:50:32.165 Can't. Power is very important, and no matter where you 0:50:32.245 --> 0:50:37.005 find that power like you might be the nurturer, you 0:50:37.125 --> 0:50:40.725 might be the cook, you might be the one who's 0:50:40.765 --> 0:50:44.085 magical with the grandchildren. You might be doesn't matter. But 0:50:44.205 --> 0:50:48.485 you need to have a little patch of territory that's yours. 0:50:49.045 --> 0:50:52.245 And now I've got your fucking patch of territory. God, 0:50:53.365 --> 0:50:55.965 thank god, no one will try not to break it. 0:50:56.485 --> 0:50:57.245 You're so good at this. 0:50:57.365 --> 0:51:00.525 I can't think of anyone who is going to be better. 0:51:00.605 --> 0:51:03.645 I can't wait to be listening every single week. And 0:51:03.685 --> 0:51:07.165 what an honor to be your first guest. Literally, no 0:51:07.205 --> 0:51:08.405 one else in the building. 0:51:11.005 --> 0:51:16.005 Anyway. I love you, I love you. Enjoy your secret 0:51:16.045 --> 0:51:18.005 square well and some sunsha. 0:51:18.085 --> 0:51:19.365 You'll be the first one to know. 0:51:25.405 --> 0:51:30.285 So Maya has left the building and you are now 0:51:30.325 --> 0:51:36.925 in my culpable hands. Come back, Maya, Oh no, she's gone. 0:51:37.445 --> 0:51:40.565 I'll see you next week. The executive producer of No 0:51:40.685 --> 0:51:47.565 Filter is Naima Brown, Senior producer Grace ruverret producer Charlie Blackman, 0:51:48.045 --> 0:51:53.005 Audio production and sound design by Jacob Brown. And I'm 0:51:53.085 --> 0:51:55.085 your host Kateline Brook.