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Speaker 1: You're listening to a Mother Maya podcast.

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Speaker 2: Mama Maya acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters

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Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on. Felt like I had

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Speaker 2: no skin. Yeah, you felt like I was just raw.

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Speaker 3: I was just an open I was just all Yeah,

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Speaker 3: I had no protection.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I was just I was a friggin.

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Speaker 1: Mess for Mama Maya. This is No Filter. I'm Kate

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Speaker 1: lang Brook. Yes you are, Yes, I am. I'm going

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Speaker 1: to introduce us.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I'm Kate lane Brook.

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Speaker 1: And I'm joined by someone who, when I have listened

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Speaker 1: to No Filter over the years, I have wanted to

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Speaker 1: talk to this person more than anybody else. I would

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Speaker 1: like to introduce my very special Geest Maya Friedman.

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Speaker 2: I was easy to get.

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Speaker 1: Wow, you were not easy to get.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's true. That's also true.

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Speaker 1: In fact, part of the reason I think we're sitting

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Speaker 1: here is that you've been very hard to get.

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Speaker 3: I like playing hard to get. Yes, we did have

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Speaker 3: an aborted attempt at this a year ago, didn't we.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we did.

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Speaker 3: I've been thinking about that a lot when I was

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Speaker 3: thinking about today and how this time last year we

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Speaker 3: sat down before you were going to host the summer

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Speaker 3: Summer's edition Summer Season of No Filter to see how

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Speaker 3: you liked it, because I needed a rest.

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Speaker 1: And well, you were hanging by a three. I was

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Speaker 1: hanging by thread.

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Speaker 3: And it wasn't, in hindsight, a very good time to

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Speaker 3: do an interview. And I never sit down and do

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Speaker 3: long form interviews, so I hadn't for a long time

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Speaker 3: before that, like years, and I sat down and it

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Speaker 3: you thought it went well.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it was great. It was absolutely fascinating. You would

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Speaker 1: call it well at the time as well. Well, it

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Speaker 1: didn't really think about a message afterwards.

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Speaker 3: I tried to cancel a few times. You did try

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Speaker 3: to cancel anyway. This is all boring, but this is

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Speaker 3: all behind the scenes stuff. But I pulled the pin

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Speaker 3: because it wasn't when I say it wasn't me at

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Speaker 3: my best. I just I was a hot mess, and

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Speaker 3: I mean I'm always a hot mess, but I was

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Speaker 3: in a particularly fragile state this time last year, and

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Speaker 3: I didn't I just didn't particularly want to put that

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Speaker 3: out there because I was still in the middle of

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Speaker 3: being in that.

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Speaker 1: Fragile state because you were processing something which I know

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Speaker 1: at the time, but I could tell when I was

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Speaker 1: talking to you and do you remember the question that

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Speaker 1: tricked your trigger? Do you remember what it was?

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Speaker 2: I don't.

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Speaker 1: I'll say it to you now because because you're in

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Speaker 1: such a vastly different place. I said to you, because

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Speaker 1: I've been reading your book. I've read your book, and

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Speaker 1: you were on.

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Speaker 2: The cusp then of waiting for strife to come out.

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Speaker 2: So there was a lot of.

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Speaker 1: There were a lot of shap that came in with you.

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Speaker 2: I felt like I had no skin.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you were.

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Speaker 2: I was just raw.

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Speaker 3: I was just an open just I was just all, yeah,

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Speaker 3: I had no protection.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, But you were still as you do and as

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Speaker 1: you have to do. You were still navigating your way

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Speaker 1: through this world because you've got so many, you know,

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Speaker 1: plates spinning at all times, and if you drop the plates,

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Speaker 1: there's a world on each of those plates. So I

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Speaker 1: get the feeling you're very conscious of not dropping those

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Speaker 1: plates because you don't want to damage the people that

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Speaker 1: are on the plates.

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Speaker 3: That's very That's such an insightful observation, and you're right.

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Speaker 3: It's like, I think I probably had some kind of breakdown.

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Speaker 3: I had a sort of a slow moving, ongoing breakdown

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Speaker 3: over the last around that time before that, and probably through.

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Speaker 2: To about halfway through this year, which weirdly.

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Speaker 1: Makes me ran half you know, well it is like.

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Speaker 3: Let's just crack into it. Hey, we haven't even have

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Speaker 3: no small talk.

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Speaker 1: Well well you may as well laugh.

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Speaker 2: Oh no, but it is funny.

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Speaker 3: It's like, because I had this breakdown and I probably

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Speaker 3: should have taken myself away somewhere, yes, but I couldn't.

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Speaker 2: I just couldn't.

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Speaker 3: You Hosting the summer season of No Filter was the

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Speaker 3: first tentative step that I'd taken from stepping back from

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Speaker 3: really anything since I wasn't the editor of Mamamea anymore.

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Speaker 3: I know it, So yeah, it was it was, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: I was just I was a freaking mess.

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Speaker 1: Because you know, those of us who really just if

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Speaker 1: we knew nothing about you other than your output, if

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Speaker 1: we knew nothing other than that, that is extraordinary and

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Speaker 1: that is exhausting to think about. So you were exhausted

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Speaker 1: and this is this is the thing, and I wasn't

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Speaker 1: doing It wasn't a gotcha, it wasn't whatever. It was

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Speaker 1: like a genuine because I just wanted to work out

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Speaker 1: what your driver was, what your engine, what, what what your

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Speaker 1: engine takes? And I said to you because I'd read

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Speaker 1: your book, and I said, it's really interesting because you

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Speaker 1: you we talked about whether or not you ever reflect

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Speaker 1: on the amazing thing that you've built things, and you

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Speaker 1: said no. And then I said, you know what's interesting

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Speaker 1: in your book and you talk about work that's still

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Speaker 1: got to be done and you know what you could

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Speaker 1: have done better? And I said, but you never talk

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Speaker 1: about the concept of happiness. Do you remember that?

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Speaker 2: Is that all I can see? I can feel?

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Speaker 3: Yeah again, yeah, yeah, and it was it was just

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Speaker 3: a yeah.

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Speaker 1: And then that was like, I don't know, it's like

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Speaker 1: someone pulled a little stitch, the last stitch that you

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Speaker 1: were hanging by, and then you kind of just unraveled.

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Speaker 2: A little bit. Oh yeah, a lot. Yeah, how to

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Speaker 2: you cry? Yeah, it's true.

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Speaker 3: It's like happiness kind of doesn't does really when you're

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Speaker 3: running a business.

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Speaker 2: It's not.

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Speaker 3: Actually that's a luxury that sort of sits on the side.

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Speaker 2: And not to be matter.

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Speaker 3: Like, I also love my work. I think it would

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Speaker 3: be easier if I didn't. You know, I didn't if

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Speaker 3: I didn't love my work, I would go I'm so

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Speaker 3: burnt out, I'm so exhausted, I need to back away.

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Speaker 3: But Firstly, when you've built something this size, it's hard

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Speaker 3: to extract yourself.

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Speaker 2: But also I love it. I love what I do

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Speaker 2: like I love what I do.

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Speaker 3: And it's a question of working out when it's time

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Speaker 3: to call time on certainty.

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Speaker 1: Okay, which has led us to this today. How do

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Speaker 1: you work that out? Because I mean, you are apparently

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Speaker 1: the Meya in MoMA men well I used to be.

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Speaker 3: I think there's a lot of people who wouldn't even

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Speaker 3: know who I am anymore, who might experience Muma Mea

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Speaker 3: through one of our other podcasts, not No Filter, or

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Speaker 3: written content or social content that they might consume or something,

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Speaker 3: and they wouldn't even know, particularly younger people gen zads

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Speaker 3: and millennials who wouldn't even know who I was, Which

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Speaker 3: is the way it has always which is what we've

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Speaker 3: always wanted. Jason and I yess when we first started.

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Speaker 3: Our last seventeen years have been about slowly backing me out.

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Speaker 1: That's a long that's a long reverse.

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Speaker 2: Day, that's long driveway suories.

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Speaker 1: That's when you're back into the fence.

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Speaker 3: Many which I've done many times, many many times.

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Speaker 2: My old producer on.

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Speaker 3: No Filter, Eliza Ratliffe, knows that I've been trying to

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Speaker 3: quit No Filter for two years, and not because I

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Speaker 3: don't love it, but just because it takes a lot,

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Speaker 3: Like it takes.

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Speaker 1: A lot, Yes, it's a lot, and for I mean

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Speaker 1: people listening to it, I think they know intuitively, even

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Speaker 1: if they haven't thought in a more academic since about

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Speaker 1: how much it takes that if you're interviewing someone who's

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Speaker 1: got a body of work, you pay them the courtesy

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Speaker 1: of familiar you're rising yourself with their body of work. Well,

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Speaker 1: that can be books, what is it can be TV shows, movie, yes, yeah,

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Speaker 1: all the different things and even just getting to understand

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Speaker 1: who someone is like to prepare for an interview, my

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Speaker 1: process is just very immersive and I can only do

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Speaker 1: it within about twenty four hours of actually sitting down

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Speaker 1: with them. So because you've done so many new things

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Speaker 1: over the last I don't know, Like you said, there's

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Speaker 1: a plethora of new podcasts, it kind of feels like

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Speaker 1: there's another You're going to another level, which might be

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Speaker 1: the level at which you kind of get to.

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Speaker 3: I think the business is getting bigger, but I want

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Speaker 3: to get smaller, right if that makes sense?

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Speaker 1: It does make sense. But do you know how to

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Speaker 1: do that.

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Speaker 3: Well, that's what the last sort of eighteen months to

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Speaker 3: two years has been. It's been setting us up for

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Speaker 3: Jason and I to be able to excel right, Like

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Speaker 3: I don't want to completely building, but to go okay.

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Speaker 3: There wasn't an option until sort of the last eighteen months,

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Speaker 3: so that it's been finding the right people when new CEO,

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Speaker 3: when you chief content officer, we've got a new chief

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Speaker 3: revenue officer, all these different people to put in to say, okay,

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Speaker 3: we now feel able to step back further to a

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Speaker 3: point where we don't have to run the whole thing anymore,

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Speaker 3: that they can take the baton from us. And you know,

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Speaker 3: you want to hire people who are smarter than you.

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Speaker 3: You want to work with people who are smarter than you.

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Speaker 1: But after a while, when you've done something for a while,

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Speaker 1: it's hard to find those people because you've been in

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Speaker 1: the space.

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Speaker 3: It's really hard to find those people. And also, I'm free.

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Speaker 3: So you know the reason why I'm like, oh me,

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Speaker 3: you can do it, me, you can do it. Me,

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Speaker 3: you can do it, and I'll put up my hand

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Speaker 3: is that I am.

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Speaker 2: Free and I'm available of course.

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Speaker 3: And you know, hiring really good people like you and

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Speaker 3: other and the executives that we've got and all the

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Speaker 3: people that work in our business, including our head of content.

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Speaker 3: That costs a lot of money, and you have to

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Speaker 3: be you know, people see the front, but they don't know,

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Speaker 3: you know, it's like the dark gliding across the pond.

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Speaker 3: They don't see what's going on under your surface. And

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Speaker 3: there's a lot going on under the surface.

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Speaker 1: It's like my husband who own nightclubs, and people always think, oh,

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Speaker 1: you must get cheap booze. You don't, you don't. You

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Speaker 1: actually can get it cheaper at Dan Murphy's. But also

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Speaker 1: they don't know about rent and people and insurance and

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Speaker 1: Capra and la la la and exactly exactly. So what Okay,

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Speaker 1: So here's the thing with you and you're seventeen year

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Speaker 1: reversing out of the driveway. But because it's not just

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Speaker 1: a business, it's also your family. So that is just

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Speaker 1: another mind bog Like when I was here yesterday and

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Speaker 1: you were arriving with Luca and Jesse Jesse, which was gorgeous,

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Speaker 1: and then someone made the joke, was at Luca that

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Speaker 1: you just derived from the succession helicoptery.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because it's like it was.

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Speaker 3: Like we bumped into each other in the car and

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Speaker 3: they drove in together. It's like, yeah, it's a family business,

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Speaker 3: Like there's one hundred and fifty people in it. But

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Speaker 3: Jason and I are the co founders, Luca is the

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Speaker 3: chief operating and product officer, and you know my friend

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Speaker 3: and daughter in law, Jesse.

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Speaker 2: I posted a podcast with her.

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Speaker 3: And so yeah, everyone's various people are involved in the business.

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Speaker 3: I mean, our two youngest children just want to get

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Speaker 3: away from it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, they'll probably get sucked into it too.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, that means that it's not a job you

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Speaker 3: can easily quit.

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Speaker 1: But also aside from the job, you've also as a

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Speaker 1: human and as a woman and as a mother, you've

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Speaker 1: become a mother in law. Yeah, and that's and a

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Speaker 1: grandmother and that's all happened at the same time as well.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think that last year was a real

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Speaker 3: unraveling for me, Like on every level of my identity.

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Speaker 3: I turned, I turned, how old did I added whatever?

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Speaker 3: I turned fifty fifty three, You start to hear blurred.

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Speaker 3: I became a grandmother, my eldest son got married, Like

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Speaker 3: all of these things happened my youngest child sort of

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Speaker 3: you know, got beyond that age where you know, he

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Speaker 3: turned sixteen, So it's like I officially moved into that

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Speaker 3: age of your kids are growing up in a way,

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Speaker 3: having their own families, and what does that mean? And

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Speaker 3: at the same time, the world is telling you you're irrelevant,

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Speaker 3: you're invisible, you're a carrying.

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Speaker 1: Your socks are the wrong link your socks, yeah, you're.

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Speaker 3: A loser, all of those things. And then it's like, well,

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Speaker 3: and then what do you do with your face and

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Speaker 3: what like? And I just I just lost it, Like

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Speaker 3: I just felt really it was like you know when

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Speaker 3: you're doing a software upgrade and you get like the

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Speaker 3: spinning wheel.

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Speaker 2: Right, the wheel was just spinning. It was like the

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Speaker 2: spinning wheel.

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Speaker 3: It's like it was before this new phase, I was

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Speaker 3: just really lost. I was lost at work, I was

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Speaker 3: lost at home. I was lost with my place in

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Speaker 3: the world, all of those things. And part of the

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Speaker 3: reason that I also wanted to find the right person

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Speaker 3: to hand no Filter over to was I wanted to

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Speaker 3: make some room creatively to do some other things, and

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Speaker 3: there just wasn't any room. And I used to think

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Speaker 3: that I could just take on more and more and

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Speaker 3: more and more, and last year I realized, oh, I'm breaking.

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Speaker 3: I'm broken, and I realized that, okay, I can't. So

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Speaker 3: I had to make some space.

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Speaker 2: Yeah and how okay.

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Speaker 1: So in my experience, when you find yourself in situations

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Speaker 1: like that, if you don't make the decision, your body

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Speaker 1: will make the decision for you. Oh yeah. So it's

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Speaker 1: like the actors will often say, if they've been in

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Speaker 1: like a long run of a plan, they get sick

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Speaker 1: on the last night they had their rap party, and

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Speaker 1: then they got the down. So you had to call

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Speaker 1: it before your body called it. My body's tried to

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Speaker 1: call it for a really long time, like you know.

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Speaker 1: Jason was talking to someone the other day and said,

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Speaker 1: MAYA has passed the point of burnout so many times

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Speaker 1: because it's like it's just not been an option.

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Speaker 2: So it's been I've gone past.

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Speaker 3: Burnout, past burnout, past burnout, past burnout. And I was

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Speaker 3: sick quite a lot in twenty twenty four. I just

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Speaker 3: got like, you know, the usual winter thing. Lots of

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Speaker 3: people have just got sick.

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Speaker 2: My immune system has.

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Speaker 3: Been okay, but I've also been going through perimenopause and

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Speaker 3: then menopause, and so it's been all in to know

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Speaker 3: what yes, exactly, And I just I recover very, very easily,

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Speaker 3: and I've got a really big engine, I think because

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Speaker 3: I'm quite also forgetful, and I just forget that I'm exhausted.

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Speaker 2: Like I don't I don't.

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Speaker 3: Corinate in things long, Like I just sleep well, really well.

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Speaker 1: Or what time do you go to bed?

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Speaker 2: I probably I.

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Speaker 3: Look at my phone until maybe fifteen seconds before I'm

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Speaker 3: before I'm asleep, Like, I'll just look at it.

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Speaker 2: I'm not one of.

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Speaker 3: Those people that need to do special sleep hygiene and everything.

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Speaker 3: I'm fortunate in that way. And then I will just

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Speaker 3: literally turn my phone off, put it on the floor,

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Speaker 3: and within fifteen.

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Speaker 2: Seconds go to sleep.

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Speaker 1: And how long do you sleep? For?

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Speaker 3: Probably about seven between six to seven hours.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I wake up pretty early. Do you wake up

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Speaker 1: and you're full of ideas? Or do you wake up

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Speaker 1: slowly and step into the day.

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Speaker 2: Oh I've never been like a jump out of bed person.

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Speaker 1: No, but sometimes I wake up and I'm like boo,

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Speaker 1: and it's like all these things have happened in my sleep.

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Speaker 3: Oh no, all of those things happen in my way.

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Speaker 3: Ye okay, yeah, no. So often what I've become very

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Speaker 3: aware of is that I wake up, open my eyes,

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Speaker 3: pick up my phone, and just saturate myself with stimulation.

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Speaker 3: I think that's probably what most of us do, and

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Speaker 3: from my brain, it needs that. But I've also become

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Speaker 3: aware that that's not a very gentle weight away.

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Speaker 2: It's a brutal or pretty brutal.

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Speaker 1: Particularly if you're looking at news.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you know.

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Speaker 3: The first thing I'll do is look at my WhatsApp

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Speaker 3: and if any of the chats have gone off, Like

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Speaker 3: you know, sometimes I wake up and there'll be thirty

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Speaker 3: messages and it might be that just one of my

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Speaker 3: group chats has you know, gone off overnight about whatever,

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Speaker 3: but it also could be breaking news that I've missed

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Speaker 3: because you know, someone else was up before me. The

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Speaker 3: day starts hard, and then on weekends Luca brings over Luna,

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Speaker 3: so you're, yeah, I wake up to her, you know,

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Speaker 3: I get up and she's she arrives pretty soon after.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, I'm not a sort of lying around person.

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Speaker 3: Like my brain just goes all the time, which is

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Speaker 3: exhausting in itself.

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Speaker 1: So you know how you were saying, Jason said you'd

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Speaker 1: gone beyond burnout so many times. How did that manifest?

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Speaker 2: Then? Great question?

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Speaker 3: Just despair. I think just like cry most days. Sometimes

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Speaker 3: i'd cry in meetings, which is bad.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes I would out of just out of just.

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Speaker 3: Full, full, overwhelmed. They're just overwhelmed, overwhelm, overwhelm, overwhelmed. I'd

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Speaker 3: feel just overwhelmed a lot of the time. And then

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Speaker 3: I'd have to, you know, come in here, and I'd

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Speaker 3: lived because I had to live, sure.

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Speaker 1: And also there's distraction then, and distraction is just so

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Speaker 1: gratefully received when you're like that.

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Speaker 3: I love coming in into the office and I love

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Speaker 3: you know, I love recording the podcast that are out loud.

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Speaker 2: And then no.

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Speaker 3: Filter would often be a lot because when you have

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Speaker 3: to meet like the conversations that you have on this show,

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Speaker 3: not that they're always bleak or sad, but they're always deep,

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Speaker 3: and you have.

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Speaker 2: To called no filter correct. So you have to.

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Speaker 3: Meet someone there every single time, and it's really intense.

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Speaker 3: But I have this thing where I walk out of

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Speaker 3: the studio and I won't be able to remember anything.

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Speaker 3: So my poor producers would like try to sit down

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Speaker 3: with me afterwards and like whatef, and I'm like, I

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Speaker 3: don't remember anything.

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Speaker 2: It's weird.

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Speaker 3: It's like I'm so present at them at that time.

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Speaker 3: But I've got a very efficient clearing system, like my

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Speaker 3: hard drives just constantly being deleted, delete, delete, delete.

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Speaker 2: Where you don't have the storage. I don't have the storage.

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Speaker 3: So I'll walk out, and then I won't I actually

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00:18:41,125 --> 00:18:42,605
Speaker 3: won't ever want to listen to it again. I want

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Speaker 3: to do won't even talk about it again. And this

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Speaker 3: show requires a lot of you know, there's a lot

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Speaker 3: of You've got to take really good care of the

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Speaker 3: people that you interview, and you've got to follow through

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Speaker 3: on that process. And I just wasn't able to do

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Speaker 3: that justice anymore.

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Speaker 2: And I felt what I love is actually I.

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Speaker 3: Want to listen to you interview people like I loved

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Speaker 3: over Summer.

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Speaker 1: I love the girl I'm interviewing right now, your lover

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Speaker 1: meor freedman.

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Speaker 2: I know you're desperate to escape, but you shall not.

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Speaker 2: I know where the exits are.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, no you don't. We've changed them. You're staying put.

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Speaker 3: I think you're the best interviewer in Australia. I think

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Speaker 3: you are. Oh calm down, you have because you're playful.

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Speaker 3: Even when we did that interview which we ended up

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Speaker 3: not publishing, you will so seamlessly because I was being interviewed,

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Speaker 3: but I was also observing you, not to judge you,

385
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Speaker 3: but just because I was interested in your practice. And

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Speaker 3: you did that really tricky thing which you took me

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Speaker 3: from tears and then you knew exactly when to just

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Speaker 3: bridge to something funny and we both laughed.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and complete gear change.

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Speaker 1: But you know, it's an interesting it's really rare.

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Speaker 2: Most people can't do that, but in friendships you do

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Speaker 2: it all the time. Rue people do it all the time.

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Speaker 1: That's how you get your friends through, and that's how

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Speaker 1: you navigate those moments where someone's really raw.

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Speaker 2: And then you're like, it's true.

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Speaker 1: You know, I'm curious about Jay saying you've gone beyond

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Speaker 1: burnout so many times, and because of your relationship with

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Speaker 1: him as a husband and a lover and a business partner.

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Speaker 3: I know everyone says, I don't know how you could

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Speaker 3: work with your partner.

401
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Speaker 2: I never could.

402
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Speaker 1: What do you say?

403
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Speaker 2: I would have said the same thing. I would have

404
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Speaker 2: said the same thing, but.

405
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Speaker 1: It wasn't your intention was it.

406
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Speaker 3: Was not my idea and it was not my intention.

407
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Speaker 3: But I certainly wouldn't be here with Mum and MEA

408
00:20:46,285 --> 00:20:49,005
Speaker 3: wouldn't be what it was no, if it wasn't for

409
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Speaker 3: the two of us, Like he wouldn't have done it

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Speaker 3: without me, and I certainly wouldn't have done it without him,

411
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Speaker 3: and I wasn't. I'd already been doing it by myself

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Speaker 3: for eighteen months, and i'd, you know, made no money

413
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Speaker 3: for eighteen months. I'd built an audience, but I didn't

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Speaker 3: know how to monetize it. I didn't have the skills

415
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Speaker 3: or the bandwidth to do it, and I didn't have

416
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Speaker 3: the vision that he did for the business. It's not

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Speaker 3: I've got a business brain, but not the big picture

418
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Speaker 3: business and not the you know, I don't.

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Speaker 2: I can't.

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Speaker 3: I wouldn't say I can't read a spreadsheet. I remember

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Speaker 3: Zoe Foster Blake said to me that when she first

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Speaker 3: started go to and she has a couple of business

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Speaker 3: partners co partners, and she said she'd sit in meetings

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Speaker 3: at first and be like, I don't understand the numbers,

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Speaker 3: and then she's like, and then I realized that wasn't

426
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Speaker 3: cute anymore. I don't do it to be cute, but

427
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Speaker 3: I also like, I just can't things that I I mean,

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Speaker 3: I suppose I could, and she has had to teach herself,

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Speaker 3: but there's no way I could do what I have

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Speaker 3: to do if I also had to.

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Speaker 2: Do the other stuff. And I'm just not that good

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Speaker 2: at the other stuff.

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Speaker 1: Okay, but how good are you at being a wife?

434
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Speaker 2: In terrible of all the r so bad?

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Speaker 1: So let's just have a moment's pause for poor jas.

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Speaker 3: He's very He's the nurture in this in our run.

437
00:22:06,165 --> 00:22:07,965
Speaker 3: It's not that I don't nurture the kids and I

438
00:22:07,965 --> 00:22:11,085
Speaker 3: don't love him. I love him, Madling. We've just celebrated

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Speaker 3: our twenty fifth wedding anniversary.

440
00:22:13,005 --> 00:22:15,605
Speaker 2: How did you celebrate for the first time?

441
00:22:15,685 --> 00:22:18,845
Speaker 3: We remembered, Oh, and we went out to dinner, and

442
00:22:18,885 --> 00:22:22,725
Speaker 3: we've ever done that before. Really, we're not like that,

443
00:22:22,765 --> 00:22:24,485
Speaker 3: Like when we don't give each other presents. We're not

444
00:22:24,525 --> 00:22:28,245
Speaker 3: present people. It's not our love language. We're real homebodies.

445
00:22:28,285 --> 00:22:32,205
Speaker 3: We love staying at home. So I often think that

446
00:22:32,525 --> 00:22:36,045
Speaker 3: if you've got a certain if every relationship has a

447
00:22:36,085 --> 00:22:38,885
Speaker 3: certain amount of petrol in the tank, yes, until it

448
00:22:38,965 --> 00:22:42,725
Speaker 3: sort of just runs out. Yeah, working together just you

449
00:22:42,725 --> 00:22:44,605
Speaker 3: you know, uses up that petrol.

450
00:22:44,725 --> 00:22:49,325
Speaker 1: Well, that's why that's why I ask. Yeah, I can't

451
00:22:49,325 --> 00:22:53,645
Speaker 1: even conceive of Like earlier last year, I was kind

452
00:22:53,645 --> 00:22:57,365
Speaker 1: of in between managers. And Peter, my husband who I

453
00:22:57,405 --> 00:23:00,885
Speaker 1: also love, who I've been with for twenty one years,

454
00:23:01,525 --> 00:23:03,405
Speaker 1: he was kind of helping out for a while and

455
00:23:03,445 --> 00:23:08,805
Speaker 1: it was really terrible, not because he's terrible, he's really

456
00:23:08,845 --> 00:23:12,005
Speaker 1: good at business and is whatever sexy, but the marrying that, yeah,

457
00:23:12,205 --> 00:23:15,005
Speaker 1: marrying a thing. The fantasy is that you're going to

458
00:23:15,045 --> 00:23:17,365
Speaker 1: go in like do you ever go into Jason's office,

459
00:23:17,365 --> 00:23:19,405
Speaker 1: shut the door behind you and just kind of take

460
00:23:19,445 --> 00:23:19,805
Speaker 1: you up.

461
00:23:22,325 --> 00:23:23,205
Speaker 2: Because that's great.

462
00:23:23,525 --> 00:23:26,645
Speaker 3: Can you imagine if we touch each other in meetings

463
00:23:26,725 --> 00:23:30,405
Speaker 3: or something, Everyone's like ew, mum and dad, ew, No,

464
00:23:30,605 --> 00:23:33,325
Speaker 3: we don't do that. And that's why it's probably been

465
00:23:33,765 --> 00:23:37,165
Speaker 3: the best thing for our business and probably the worst

466
00:23:37,165 --> 00:23:39,005
Speaker 3: thing for our relationship is being in business.

467
00:23:39,085 --> 00:23:41,605
Speaker 2: Although I've also seen.

468
00:23:41,845 --> 00:23:46,005
Speaker 3: Relationships where both couples are pulling in different directions. Either

469
00:23:46,045 --> 00:23:48,045
Speaker 3: one of them has a big job and the everyone doesn't,

470
00:23:48,565 --> 00:23:51,525
Speaker 3: or they've both got big jobs or whatever, and there's

471
00:23:51,565 --> 00:23:55,085
Speaker 3: that constant competitiveness of whose job is more important or

472
00:23:55,125 --> 00:23:56,765
Speaker 3: whose role is more important.

473
00:23:56,805 --> 00:23:59,045
Speaker 1: And a lot of actors, if actors go out with

474
00:23:59,085 --> 00:24:01,325
Speaker 1: other actors, they have a very similar kind of imagine

475
00:24:01,325 --> 00:24:03,845
Speaker 1: what that would be like terrible madness to go out

476
00:24:03,845 --> 00:24:04,005
Speaker 1: with it.

477
00:24:04,205 --> 00:24:05,885
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think.

478
00:24:07,645 --> 00:24:10,965
Speaker 3: You know, for us, we've at least always been pulling

479
00:24:11,005 --> 00:24:13,605
Speaker 3: in the same direction, you know, and in that way

480
00:24:13,645 --> 00:24:16,405
Speaker 3: it's very efficient. So we've been able to tag team

481
00:24:17,125 --> 00:24:21,085
Speaker 3: with kids and with work. But it means that you

482
00:24:21,245 --> 00:24:23,965
Speaker 3: can't like a couple of years ago, Jace had a

483
00:24:24,245 --> 00:24:26,765
Speaker 3: tried to have a sabbatical for three months, and he

484
00:24:26,805 --> 00:24:29,045
Speaker 3: could have a sabbatical from the business, but he couldn't

485
00:24:29,045 --> 00:24:30,165
Speaker 3: have a sabbatical from.

486
00:24:30,005 --> 00:24:32,725
Speaker 1: His wife, who is also part of the business.

487
00:24:33,045 --> 00:24:35,645
Speaker 3: And so when I would bring him and you know,

488
00:24:35,725 --> 00:24:37,845
Speaker 3: want to talk about something or be upset about something,

489
00:24:39,005 --> 00:24:40,365
Speaker 3: that was really hard.

490
00:24:40,805 --> 00:24:41,525
Speaker 2: So it's like he.

491
00:24:41,485 --> 00:24:44,725
Speaker 3: Couldn't get away from me and from me. And since

492
00:24:44,725 --> 00:24:47,965
Speaker 3: we've appointed a new CEO this year and he has

493
00:24:48,045 --> 00:24:51,045
Speaker 3: moved into this role of executive chairman and he is

494
00:24:51,165 --> 00:24:54,605
Speaker 3: not we don't work together day to day anymore. That's

495
00:24:54,645 --> 00:24:57,885
Speaker 3: been so good, Oh my god, we've rediscovered each other.

496
00:24:59,125 --> 00:25:01,885
Speaker 2: Wonderful. Yeah, it's been wonderful.

497
00:25:01,685 --> 00:25:04,685
Speaker 1: Because there are aspects that you I mean, you just

498
00:25:04,725 --> 00:25:07,365
Speaker 1: can't serve us all parts at the same time.

499
00:25:07,765 --> 00:25:10,605
Speaker 3: And it's really hard to be in meeting with someone

500
00:25:10,645 --> 00:25:13,525
Speaker 3: you know, so like you behave a certain way at home,

501
00:25:14,125 --> 00:25:16,765
Speaker 3: and like you know, when you're partner shitting you, you

502
00:25:16,805 --> 00:25:19,285
Speaker 3: give them a look across the table or you whatever.

503
00:25:19,445 --> 00:25:19,725
Speaker 2: Fact.

504
00:25:20,525 --> 00:25:22,285
Speaker 3: And then we're in meetings and some people here have

505
00:25:22,325 --> 00:25:24,765
Speaker 3: been in those meetings, you know, many years ago when

506
00:25:24,765 --> 00:25:28,285
Speaker 3: we would have discussions, we'd have Barney's about work, and

507
00:25:28,285 --> 00:25:30,205
Speaker 3: they'd be sort of uncomfortable. People get used to it

508
00:25:30,205 --> 00:25:32,525
Speaker 3: pretty quickly, but one time I had to say, you

509
00:25:32,525 --> 00:25:34,125
Speaker 3: know that other people can see the look that you're

510
00:25:34,165 --> 00:25:36,165
Speaker 3: giving me across the table, and he would have to

511
00:25:36,165 --> 00:25:38,325
Speaker 3: say the same to me, because you kind of just

512
00:25:38,525 --> 00:25:41,085
Speaker 3: forget that you've got to behave in a way in

513
00:25:41,125 --> 00:25:44,685
Speaker 3: front of other people. Yes, and it's yeah, it's really

514
00:25:44,805 --> 00:25:47,565
Speaker 3: it's been really challenging. But I'm very proud that we

515
00:25:47,605 --> 00:25:52,525
Speaker 3: are still married, yeah, and that we have continued to

516
00:25:52,725 --> 00:25:58,085
Speaker 3: build the business together. And hopefully now that we're able

517
00:25:58,165 --> 00:26:01,405
Speaker 3: to you know, bring in new people and take a

518
00:26:01,445 --> 00:26:05,165
Speaker 3: step back, it means that we'll be able to be

519
00:26:05,325 --> 00:26:08,685
Speaker 3: married again and also just have some space from each other. Yes,

520
00:26:08,965 --> 00:26:11,485
Speaker 3: you know, yeh, Like it's quite nice to get home

521
00:26:11,525 --> 00:26:14,325
Speaker 3: and go how is your day and not know, yeah,

522
00:26:14,805 --> 00:26:15,765
Speaker 3: you know, that's quite nice.

523
00:26:15,805 --> 00:26:16,805
Speaker 2: Looking forward to seeing each other.

524
00:26:16,845 --> 00:26:20,805
Speaker 1: Okay, So if your plan is to make some more

525
00:26:20,845 --> 00:26:24,005
Speaker 1: time for yourself, really, and how would you feel that?

526
00:26:24,045 --> 00:26:25,765
Speaker 1: And it's not gonna be empty time if I.

527
00:26:25,685 --> 00:26:28,925
Speaker 2: Know you, No, But is that.

528
00:26:29,045 --> 00:26:32,205
Speaker 1: Commensurate with what Jace wants for himself as well?

529
00:26:32,605 --> 00:26:36,645
Speaker 3: The difference is that he loves Muma, Mea, and and

530
00:26:37,285 --> 00:26:39,045
Speaker 3: our core purpose being to make the water a better

531
00:26:39,045 --> 00:26:41,325
Speaker 3: place for women girls actually came from him. I couldn't

532
00:26:41,405 --> 00:26:43,445
Speaker 3: articulate it, which is very embarrassing because I'm the writer

533
00:26:43,525 --> 00:26:46,405
Speaker 3: in the family, but he was the one. And I

534
00:26:46,525 --> 00:26:48,325
Speaker 3: remember he wrote it down on a piece of paper

535
00:26:48,365 --> 00:26:50,045
Speaker 3: and he's like, I think it's this and because I

536
00:26:50,045 --> 00:26:52,445
Speaker 3: was more just like it's the vibe, yes, the women

537
00:26:52,525 --> 00:26:55,525
Speaker 3: and the vibe because I've like, it's the water ice women.

538
00:26:55,725 --> 00:26:58,565
Speaker 3: I couldn't even articulate it, but he could. So he

539
00:26:58,765 --> 00:27:01,205
Speaker 3: obviously feels very strongly about our core purpose, but he's

540
00:27:01,245 --> 00:27:04,205
Speaker 3: got lots of interests and hobbies and things that he

541
00:27:04,245 --> 00:27:06,125
Speaker 3: wants to do outside of Mumma.

542
00:27:07,045 --> 00:27:08,365
Speaker 1: We're so well.

543
00:27:08,365 --> 00:27:09,925
Speaker 3: The problem is that my hobby, it is my work,

544
00:27:09,965 --> 00:27:12,485
Speaker 3: which is I think been one of the big drivers

545
00:27:12,885 --> 00:27:15,685
Speaker 3: of mum and Maya. But it makes it very hard

546
00:27:16,765 --> 00:27:21,365
Speaker 3: to rest it really does. And so for me, the

547
00:27:21,405 --> 00:27:23,565
Speaker 3: time that I get closest to resting is I have

548
00:27:23,645 --> 00:27:26,565
Speaker 3: a day a week with Luna, which being a grandmother

549
00:27:26,605 --> 00:27:28,565
Speaker 3: is so different to being a mother in that you

550
00:27:28,605 --> 00:27:29,885
Speaker 3: just can be very present.

551
00:27:29,565 --> 00:27:32,045
Speaker 2: Because it's like one day. I know people say that, Yeah,

552
00:27:32,045 --> 00:27:33,605
Speaker 2: I know, I never understood it.

553
00:27:33,645 --> 00:27:35,925
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't understand. I still don't understand that.

554
00:27:35,965 --> 00:27:39,085
Speaker 3: You know, it is all of the same amount of love.

555
00:27:39,245 --> 00:27:41,125
Speaker 3: It's actually really weird because it's all of the same

556
00:27:41,125 --> 00:27:44,285
Speaker 3: amount of love, except they don't live in your house,

557
00:27:44,325 --> 00:27:46,485
Speaker 3: which is kind of wonderful, but also.

558
00:27:46,365 --> 00:27:48,045
Speaker 2: You're coming to them devastation every time.

559
00:27:48,925 --> 00:27:51,485
Speaker 3: But there's no mental load. There's not one bit of

560
00:27:51,525 --> 00:27:55,125
Speaker 3: mental load. There's no guilt, you know, like I'm not like,

561
00:27:55,205 --> 00:27:57,685
Speaker 3: oh no, what if she hasn't eaten enough vegetables? Yeah right,

562
00:27:59,405 --> 00:28:03,565
Speaker 3: bake beans again, like she hat a bicky likes just love.

563
00:28:03,925 --> 00:28:04,765
Speaker 2: It's just love.

564
00:28:04,845 --> 00:28:07,565
Speaker 3: And it's not like she stayed the night. She stays

565
00:28:07,645 --> 00:28:10,125
Speaker 3: night a lot now, but the first time she said

566
00:28:10,125 --> 00:28:12,325
Speaker 3: the night, and if she does stay and she wakes

567
00:28:12,405 --> 00:28:14,405
Speaker 3: up in the night when she was a little bit younger,

568
00:28:15,205 --> 00:28:16,885
Speaker 3: and you know that feeling when your baby wakes up

569
00:28:16,885 --> 00:28:18,565
Speaker 3: in the night, or you totally wakes up the night

570
00:28:18,565 --> 00:28:21,285
Speaker 3: your kid. You've got like there's a lot of feelings.

571
00:28:21,285 --> 00:28:24,205
Speaker 3: It's like irritation and resentment and a bit of panic

572
00:28:24,205 --> 00:28:25,965
Speaker 3: and what if this never what if I never sleep?

573
00:28:26,325 --> 00:28:28,205
Speaker 1: But then you're also pleased to see them in.

574
00:28:28,165 --> 00:28:32,685
Speaker 3: A weird well yeah, and then I scanned my body

575
00:28:32,685 --> 00:28:35,405
Speaker 3: for any feelings of any negative feelings.

576
00:28:35,405 --> 00:28:37,565
Speaker 2: Not one. It was just like, yay, I get to.

577
00:28:37,565 --> 00:28:39,685
Speaker 3: Sniff a little face, I get to like give her

578
00:28:39,645 --> 00:28:41,045
Speaker 3: a little cuddle and give her a bottle, and what

579
00:28:41,765 --> 00:28:45,565
Speaker 3: you Oh, that's been fraught. She calls me nana, So

580
00:28:45,805 --> 00:28:47,365
Speaker 3: I thought I didn't want to be called nana and

581
00:28:47,765 --> 00:28:51,045
Speaker 3: whole anxiety, which I think is really common in people

582
00:28:51,085 --> 00:28:55,365
Speaker 3: when they become particular grandmothers. Yeah, because it's about your

583
00:28:55,405 --> 00:28:59,325
Speaker 3: identity and grandma. Like it suddenly seems very important not

584
00:28:59,405 --> 00:29:01,565
Speaker 3: to be called nana or grandma because I think what

585
00:29:01,605 --> 00:29:03,965
Speaker 3: it meant for us was a little old lady with

586
00:29:04,005 --> 00:29:07,085
Speaker 3: gray hair whose wife was over and we don't hear

587
00:29:07,245 --> 00:29:11,205
Speaker 3: she like that. I don't think she you know, like me,

588
00:29:12,005 --> 00:29:13,845
Speaker 3: so I don't.

589
00:29:15,165 --> 00:29:15,485
Speaker 2: Really.

590
00:29:16,445 --> 00:29:18,245
Speaker 3: This is when I was going through my whole identity crisis.

591
00:29:18,285 --> 00:29:20,125
Speaker 3: I didn't want to be that and so it became

592
00:29:20,245 --> 00:29:21,685
Speaker 3: very important to not be called that and to be

593
00:29:21,725 --> 00:29:25,405
Speaker 3: called maybe me and me, I would decide, babies decide, don't. Well,

594
00:29:25,445 --> 00:29:27,325
Speaker 3: she just didn't call me anything. But what you don't

595
00:29:27,325 --> 00:29:29,885
Speaker 3: realize is that, for the first I don't know until

596
00:29:29,885 --> 00:29:33,165
Speaker 3: they can talk, it's not about what they call you,

597
00:29:33,285 --> 00:29:34,885
Speaker 3: or not about what you call yourself. It's about what

598
00:29:34,885 --> 00:29:36,925
Speaker 3: everyone else calls you, because it's like here, you know,

599
00:29:37,125 --> 00:29:39,845
Speaker 3: let's here's nana or here you go to And so

600
00:29:39,965 --> 00:29:43,525
Speaker 3: every time they'd say grandma, I die a little bit inside, right,

601
00:29:43,565 --> 00:29:46,245
Speaker 3: And then I just realized, stop sucking making, trying to

602
00:29:46,245 --> 00:29:48,925
Speaker 3: make me happen. It's not gonna happen. No one's calling

603
00:29:48,925 --> 00:29:51,325
Speaker 3: you that. It's like trying to give yourself a nickname.

604
00:29:51,405 --> 00:29:52,085
Speaker 1: It doesn't work.

605
00:29:52,245 --> 00:29:54,045
Speaker 2: Yes, And so I just went, you know, I loved

606
00:29:54,085 --> 00:29:57,085
Speaker 2: my nana so much. My kids call my mum Nana.

607
00:29:57,565 --> 00:29:58,525
Speaker 2: I'm like, I'll be Nana.

608
00:29:58,525 --> 00:30:00,365
Speaker 3: There's only two people who could be Nana, and I'll

609
00:30:00,405 --> 00:30:02,365
Speaker 3: be one of them. And then I had my latest

610
00:30:02,365 --> 00:30:05,165
Speaker 3: neuroses was that she also called Jesse's mum nana.

611
00:30:05,325 --> 00:30:06,645
Speaker 1: Oh, so how do you different?

612
00:30:06,805 --> 00:30:09,565
Speaker 3: I went into a panic, and I'm like, then I

613
00:30:09,565 --> 00:30:12,005
Speaker 3: tried to get her a call because Jess's mum's so

614
00:30:12,005 --> 00:30:15,125
Speaker 3: so cruisy, and so I'm like, maybe call her Nan.

615
00:30:15,245 --> 00:30:16,965
Speaker 3: And I was trying to control what she called her

616
00:30:17,645 --> 00:30:20,165
Speaker 3: and was just like, knock yourself out, whatever you want

617
00:30:20,165 --> 00:30:22,965
Speaker 3: to be called. But now she just I tried to

618
00:30:23,005 --> 00:30:25,565
Speaker 3: get her to call and Nan, but she won't and

619
00:30:25,605 --> 00:30:27,125
Speaker 3: so we're both nana and I'm just like.

620
00:30:27,085 --> 00:30:30,165
Speaker 2: Who gives a shit? And you can tell he well, lots.

621
00:30:30,045 --> 00:30:31,405
Speaker 3: Of people I said it on out that and lots

622
00:30:31,405 --> 00:30:34,045
Speaker 3: of it was very funny conversation. Everyone was telling me

623
00:30:34,085 --> 00:30:36,885
Speaker 3: how they they had two nana's, but one was like.

624
00:30:39,845 --> 00:30:43,405
Speaker 1: Husband's got old Nana, We've got old Nana, Lil, we've

625
00:30:43,405 --> 00:30:45,805
Speaker 1: got Nana ree his mum Marie.

626
00:30:45,925 --> 00:30:48,325
Speaker 2: So kids work it out. They know the difference.

627
00:30:48,645 --> 00:30:51,565
Speaker 3: But that speaks to my insecurity because I'm all about leaderboards,

628
00:30:51,565 --> 00:30:54,925
Speaker 3: and I was worried that I would be low down

629
00:30:54,965 --> 00:30:57,605
Speaker 3: on the leaderboard of who she loved. This is how

630
00:30:57,605 --> 00:30:58,485
Speaker 3: I think about things.

631
00:30:58,525 --> 00:31:03,485
Speaker 1: Do you think that, because I honestly, if there was

632
00:31:03,605 --> 00:31:08,205
Speaker 1: anyone to delight a child, it's your elf and energy.

633
00:31:08,365 --> 00:31:11,445
Speaker 1: Like seriously, well maybe in security.

634
00:31:11,645 --> 00:31:13,685
Speaker 3: It's insecurity, I guess, but it's also how I make

635
00:31:13,805 --> 00:31:17,885
Speaker 3: sense of the world because I'm sort of chaotic and

636
00:31:17,925 --> 00:31:20,525
Speaker 3: I need to I like rules and I like to

637
00:31:20,645 --> 00:31:24,445
Speaker 3: know where I stand. I like feedback, I like I

638
00:31:24,605 --> 00:31:27,285
Speaker 3: like knowing things. So I was very much well at

639
00:31:27,285 --> 00:31:29,845
Speaker 3: the top of the leaderboards Jesse and then Luca, and

640
00:31:29,845 --> 00:31:33,925
Speaker 3: then Claire, Jesse's twin sister, and then Anne, Jesse's mum, and.

641
00:31:33,765 --> 00:31:37,085
Speaker 2: Then maybe me. So I'm like, okay, I'm number five.

642
00:31:37,285 --> 00:31:43,085
Speaker 3: So Anne suggested that I just be called five, and

643
00:31:43,525 --> 00:31:46,405
Speaker 3: I was like, I got really upset about that, and

644
00:31:46,445 --> 00:31:49,445
Speaker 3: because anyway, it's just I told you I've been how

645
00:31:49,445 --> 00:31:53,525
Speaker 3: I lost the last two years, like it's been, I've

646
00:31:53,565 --> 00:31:55,165
Speaker 3: been all over the shop.

647
00:31:55,085 --> 00:31:56,445
Speaker 2: And I've not known who I am.

648
00:31:56,885 --> 00:31:59,325
Speaker 1: I think because I've seen you a little bit fleetingly

649
00:31:59,365 --> 00:32:03,165
Speaker 1: in those times and always lovely actually, but it's felt

650
00:32:03,205 --> 00:32:06,365
Speaker 1: to me like you're rebuilding.

651
00:32:06,885 --> 00:32:08,365
Speaker 2: Yes, that's exactly right.

652
00:32:08,845 --> 00:32:13,405
Speaker 3: I could see it like being in a crystalis yeah, yeah, yeah,

653
00:32:13,445 --> 00:32:15,445
Speaker 3: and not that I was a caterpillar and now in

654
00:32:15,485 --> 00:32:16,485
Speaker 3: Butterfly it's not like that.

655
00:32:16,565 --> 00:32:18,525
Speaker 2: But it was like it was.

656
00:32:18,485 --> 00:32:22,125
Speaker 3: A different phase of my life and a different you know,

657
00:32:22,165 --> 00:32:23,885
Speaker 3: it doesn't You don't just go from one chapter to

658
00:32:23,925 --> 00:32:24,805
Speaker 3: the next chapter.

659
00:32:24,925 --> 00:32:29,565
Speaker 1: And transitions are very painful and no matter where they are,

660
00:32:29,685 --> 00:32:31,925
Speaker 1: a new job, new, like anything.

661
00:32:31,765 --> 00:32:35,285
Speaker 2: That's very hard, that's very what you leave behind and fear.

662
00:32:35,485 --> 00:32:38,205
Speaker 1: But stepping into the unknown is always uncertainty.

663
00:32:38,245 --> 00:32:40,325
Speaker 2: I'm not good with any of that. I'm really not

664
00:32:40,405 --> 00:32:43,405
Speaker 2: good with. But criminals, I don't.

665
00:32:43,445 --> 00:32:44,885
Speaker 1: I think most people aren't.

666
00:32:45,165 --> 00:32:45,405
Speaker 2: Really.

667
00:32:45,485 --> 00:32:48,845
Speaker 1: I just think you expect more of yourself. I don't

668
00:32:48,845 --> 00:32:51,325
Speaker 1: know what I mean. I get very impatient. I'm like

669
00:32:51,325 --> 00:32:53,485
Speaker 1: when I again, I know I'm the side.

670
00:32:53,525 --> 00:32:54,965
Speaker 2: Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Am I

671
00:32:55,005 --> 00:32:57,565
Speaker 2: in this new phase? Yet? Do I understand who I am? Yet?

672
00:32:57,965 --> 00:33:01,365
Speaker 2: And it was years of not.

673
00:33:00,125 --> 00:33:02,685
Speaker 3: Not knowing what I wanted not knowing, and I just

674
00:33:02,725 --> 00:33:03,925
Speaker 3: find that very inefficient.

675
00:33:07,205 --> 00:33:10,325
Speaker 1: Mayor Friedman, please stay to laugh to this wheat break

676
00:33:10,765 --> 00:33:20,125
Speaker 1: twisted my own. I'm just thinking about what you've built,

677
00:33:20,885 --> 00:33:24,765
Speaker 1: and I mean you built it for women, women and girls,

678
00:33:25,725 --> 00:33:28,045
Speaker 1: but I think the woman and the girl that you

679
00:33:28,125 --> 00:33:31,925
Speaker 1: built it for was yourself, because do you know what

680
00:33:32,005 --> 00:33:34,765
Speaker 1: I mean? If you think about if you think about

681
00:33:34,805 --> 00:33:37,405
Speaker 1: the conversations that happen every day and the things that

682
00:33:37,965 --> 00:33:41,645
Speaker 1: everyone's exposed to and that you bring to people, and

683
00:33:41,405 --> 00:33:44,885
Speaker 1: the little nugget of cheese or the dead mouse that

684
00:33:44,925 --> 00:33:49,885
Speaker 1: the cat leaves at the doorstep. All of that seems

685
00:33:49,925 --> 00:33:53,445
Speaker 1: like it might have been for you to find yourself

686
00:33:55,085 --> 00:33:56,965
Speaker 1: or to bring something to yourself.

687
00:33:57,805 --> 00:34:02,565
Speaker 3: Yes, I think because I am so basic, I'm very common,

688
00:34:03,165 --> 00:34:05,965
Speaker 3: and I say that in a way like I'm very.

689
00:34:07,205 --> 00:34:08,685
Speaker 2: I am very ordinary.

690
00:34:08,805 --> 00:34:11,125
Speaker 3: And the thing that I feel and the things that

691
00:34:11,165 --> 00:34:14,165
Speaker 3: I'm interested in are not the things that everybody feels

692
00:34:14,205 --> 00:34:17,205
Speaker 3: and they're interested in, But a lot of people feel

693
00:34:17,245 --> 00:34:21,685
Speaker 3: and are interested in those things too. So often I'm

694
00:34:21,685 --> 00:34:23,965
Speaker 3: always an observer of my own behavior, and I know

695
00:34:24,045 --> 00:34:26,685
Speaker 3: that when my behavior is shifting from a consumer point

696
00:34:26,725 --> 00:34:29,925
Speaker 3: of view, a content more likely that correct. So like

697
00:34:30,445 --> 00:34:32,245
Speaker 3: when I didn't know how to start a business and

698
00:34:32,285 --> 00:34:34,645
Speaker 3: I started a lady startup, or when I was interested

699
00:34:34,645 --> 00:34:36,765
Speaker 3: in perimenopause but there was nothing out there and it

700
00:34:36,765 --> 00:34:39,445
Speaker 3: felt very uncool, and we started the very we did

701
00:34:39,485 --> 00:34:42,405
Speaker 3: the very Perry Summit. And it's kind of like, what's next,

702
00:34:42,445 --> 00:34:43,645
Speaker 3: What's next?

703
00:34:44,125 --> 00:34:47,165
Speaker 1: What is next? I'm working on something.

704
00:34:48,005 --> 00:34:51,245
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm working on a little secret thing. Oh yeah,

705
00:34:51,565 --> 00:34:53,445
Speaker 3: And it's not secret because I'm being koy.

706
00:34:53,645 --> 00:34:58,845
Speaker 2: It's secret because I just want to see what it is. Like.

707
00:34:59,125 --> 00:35:01,925
Speaker 3: One of the things I find I'm not suited to

708
00:35:01,965 --> 00:35:03,565
Speaker 3: being in a business of this size.

709
00:35:03,805 --> 00:35:04,285
Speaker 2: I'm just not.

710
00:35:04,445 --> 00:35:06,525
Speaker 3: I don't have the patience for it. I don't have

711
00:35:07,285 --> 00:35:10,125
Speaker 3: I just I don't want to be in meetings and

712
00:35:10,685 --> 00:35:12,565
Speaker 3: I have to go through layers, and you need all

713
00:35:12,605 --> 00:35:15,245
Speaker 3: of that at a company the size. You need processes

714
00:35:15,285 --> 00:35:19,365
Speaker 3: and layers and strategies and schedules. I just want to

715
00:35:19,365 --> 00:35:23,245
Speaker 3: work on a couple of little things and it's still

716
00:35:23,365 --> 00:35:24,205
Speaker 3: a bit embryonic.

717
00:35:24,445 --> 00:35:28,565
Speaker 2: And until it's done, I don't commercialize it. I don't

718
00:35:28,565 --> 00:35:31,925
Speaker 2: want to, and don't jinx it. It's not even jinxing it.

719
00:35:31,925 --> 00:35:35,605
Speaker 3: It's just that I'll kind of lose energy for it

720
00:35:35,685 --> 00:35:40,125
Speaker 3: and lose interest in it, because you know, the economics

721
00:35:40,125 --> 00:35:43,885
Speaker 3: of making content is that it'll have to be sold,

722
00:35:43,925 --> 00:35:45,325
Speaker 3: and it will have to be sponsored, and we'll have

723
00:35:45,365 --> 00:35:47,045
Speaker 3: to you know, we'll have to work out when in

724
00:35:47,045 --> 00:35:50,005
Speaker 3: the schedule it should happen, and blah blah blah, and

725
00:35:50,125 --> 00:35:52,125
Speaker 3: all of that. I completely understand, because I think a

726
00:35:52,125 --> 00:35:55,325
Speaker 3: lot of people don't get that content costs money to create.

727
00:35:56,485 --> 00:35:59,165
Speaker 1: You know why now, because we're used to getting it

728
00:35:59,205 --> 00:36:02,565
Speaker 1: for nothing. Yes, people don't even buy a newspaper anymore.

729
00:36:02,605 --> 00:36:04,525
Speaker 2: But do you know what we pay money for water.

730
00:36:04,925 --> 00:36:09,525
Speaker 3: We understand that water cost money, and yet content is

731
00:36:09,565 --> 00:36:13,885
Speaker 3: really undervalued. And I think that's both the best and

732
00:36:13,925 --> 00:36:16,165
Speaker 3: worst thing about the Internet. You know, it's democratized who

733
00:36:16,165 --> 00:36:18,085
Speaker 3: can make content, which I think is wonderful. I couldn't

734
00:36:18,085 --> 00:36:20,765
Speaker 3: have built a media company without the Internet with Jays,

735
00:36:20,845 --> 00:36:23,005
Speaker 3: but you know I couldn't.

736
00:36:23,205 --> 00:36:25,565
Speaker 2: I couldn't buy a TV license or you.

737
00:36:25,525 --> 00:36:29,925
Speaker 3: Know, start my own magae buy a TV license now exactly,

738
00:36:30,205 --> 00:36:31,125
Speaker 3: get one for a hundred.

739
00:36:32,405 --> 00:36:33,685
Speaker 2: But that's been good.

740
00:36:33,725 --> 00:36:36,605
Speaker 3: But the bad thing is that people think that it

741
00:36:36,725 --> 00:36:38,845
Speaker 3: doesn't take time and effort.

742
00:36:38,605 --> 00:36:42,925
Speaker 1: And expertise to create good quality content. Yes, and this

743
00:36:42,965 --> 00:36:46,485
Speaker 1: is good quality content, really good quality content. This is

744
00:36:47,085 --> 00:36:49,845
Speaker 1: like if I think about the things that I've got

745
00:36:50,125 --> 00:36:52,725
Speaker 1: through Mamamera, and I've not been the most avid consumer

746
00:36:52,765 --> 00:36:57,365
Speaker 1: of anything online, particularly not through those years of intense

747
00:36:57,485 --> 00:37:00,085
Speaker 1: child rearing and stuff and leukemia and all of that.

748
00:37:00,325 --> 00:37:02,045
Speaker 1: So I wasn't I've just been like a.

749
00:37:02,805 --> 00:37:05,605
Speaker 3: How do you think that that experience of having your

750
00:37:05,685 --> 00:37:10,085
Speaker 3: eldest get leukemia? How do you think I know you're

751
00:37:10,125 --> 00:37:13,725
Speaker 3: not a very online person. No, how do you think

752
00:37:13,765 --> 00:37:16,965
Speaker 3: it would have been made either better or worse by

753
00:37:17,005 --> 00:37:20,765
Speaker 3: having the Internet at that time, both for community because

754
00:37:20,765 --> 00:37:22,605
Speaker 3: I know a lot of people who've either the loved

755
00:37:22,645 --> 00:37:27,485
Speaker 3: ones with cancer of cancer themselves who whether it's group chats,

756
00:37:28,005 --> 00:37:30,485
Speaker 3: you know, what was your village through that time.

757
00:37:30,525 --> 00:37:32,325
Speaker 2: Because you're also to keep it secret.

758
00:37:32,845 --> 00:37:37,325
Speaker 1: Yes, well secret, not to our friends and not to

759
00:37:37,365 --> 00:37:40,605
Speaker 1: our neighbors, and not to in fact, most of the

760
00:37:40,645 --> 00:37:42,325
Speaker 1: people in the media knew about it.

761
00:37:42,365 --> 00:37:43,565
Speaker 2: I found that extraordinary.

762
00:37:43,485 --> 00:37:45,885
Speaker 3: Yes, I didn't know about it, and not that we

763
00:37:45,965 --> 00:37:46,485
Speaker 3: knew each.

764
00:37:46,325 --> 00:37:48,845
Speaker 2: Other well then, and I was in Melbourne, you're in city, yes,

765
00:37:48,885 --> 00:37:49,205
Speaker 2: But the.

766
00:37:49,205 --> 00:37:52,445
Speaker 3: Fact that the media, particularly the Melbourne media, knew and

767
00:37:52,525 --> 00:37:54,485
Speaker 3: it was such an open secret and everybody kept it

768
00:37:54,565 --> 00:37:58,325
Speaker 3: quiet for the years, I thought was such a tribute

769
00:37:58,565 --> 00:38:03,085
Speaker 3: to how you're the esteem in which you're held in

770
00:38:03,125 --> 00:38:05,245
Speaker 3: our industry because that.

771
00:38:05,325 --> 00:38:06,165
Speaker 2: Was a big story.

772
00:38:06,645 --> 00:38:09,125
Speaker 1: It was a big story, really, and at the time

773
00:38:09,925 --> 00:38:13,805
Speaker 1: I think, I mean talk about hanging by three and

774
00:38:13,885 --> 00:38:17,485
Speaker 1: I don't think I had the energy to even address it,

775
00:38:18,045 --> 00:38:20,445
Speaker 1: and it was twofold. It was partly that it was Lewis,

776
00:38:20,485 --> 00:38:23,085
Speaker 1: our eldest son, who was six when he was diagnosed,

777
00:38:23,165 --> 00:38:30,205
Speaker 1: and partly it was not our story to tell. We

778
00:38:30,205 --> 00:38:34,565
Speaker 1: were like the custodian of him through this terrible time.

779
00:38:35,725 --> 00:38:38,725
Speaker 1: But also I didn't have the energy. I didn't even

780
00:38:38,805 --> 00:38:41,725
Speaker 1: have the energy to like sometimes if I'd bump into

781
00:38:41,765 --> 00:38:44,645
Speaker 1: someone I saw and they'd go house Lewis, I didn't

782
00:38:44,645 --> 00:38:47,525
Speaker 1: even have that. Oh, so the thought of taking on

783
00:38:47,765 --> 00:38:51,965
Speaker 1: then the media aspect of it was completely.

784
00:38:51,365 --> 00:38:54,365
Speaker 3: You had this circle that closed around you. But similar

785
00:38:54,445 --> 00:38:56,805
Speaker 3: to you know, so self indulgent me saying I was

786
00:38:56,805 --> 00:38:58,685
Speaker 3: so burnt out and it was so hard deciding what

787
00:38:58,765 --> 00:39:01,005
Speaker 3: to be called. You had a child that was battling

788
00:39:01,005 --> 00:39:02,885
Speaker 3: cancer and you had to turn up at work on

789
00:39:02,965 --> 00:39:05,285
Speaker 3: breakfast radio every single day. It's not like you could

790
00:39:05,285 --> 00:39:06,325
Speaker 3: say I'm taking a year off.

791
00:39:06,445 --> 00:39:10,565
Speaker 1: No. But also this is why I understand what you're

792
00:39:10,605 --> 00:39:15,525
Speaker 1: saying about work. Work is a salvation. Work is a

793
00:39:15,565 --> 00:39:17,805
Speaker 1: salvation for us. I mean, yeah, it is for us,

794
00:39:17,965 --> 00:39:20,965
Speaker 1: and it was for me, and it just to have

795
00:39:21,045 --> 00:39:23,525
Speaker 1: a place where and I didn't tune up every day.

796
00:39:23,525 --> 00:39:26,045
Speaker 1: And there were a couple of people that were just

797
00:39:26,085 --> 00:39:30,205
Speaker 1: so fantastic, other comedians who were like call us any time,

798
00:39:30,325 --> 00:39:32,365
Speaker 1: you know, Mick molloy and Halliah and.

799
00:39:33,085 --> 00:39:33,645
Speaker 2: Will be there.

800
00:39:33,725 --> 00:39:36,885
Speaker 1: They had your back. Yeah, they were fantastic. I was

801
00:39:36,885 --> 00:39:40,805
Speaker 1: doing breakfast Radio with Hughesy in Melbourne at the time,

802
00:39:41,405 --> 00:39:44,885
Speaker 1: but there were times when it would be the only time.

803
00:39:45,045 --> 00:39:48,085
Speaker 1: Sometimes I'd only get in there once for the week, right,

804
00:39:48,765 --> 00:39:51,325
Speaker 1: and it would be the only time in the week

805
00:39:51,965 --> 00:39:56,245
Speaker 1: that wasn't about cancer, the only time. And so even

806
00:39:56,285 --> 00:39:59,085
Speaker 1: though I was a bit wobbly, I was very hollow inside.

807
00:39:59,605 --> 00:40:02,005
Speaker 1: But the muscles that you train, and I think this

808
00:40:02,085 --> 00:40:04,045
Speaker 1: in life anyway. I always say it to my children.

809
00:40:05,045 --> 00:40:08,205
Speaker 1: The muscles that you train will be your strongest muscles.

810
00:40:08,685 --> 00:40:12,005
Speaker 1: And because I had been doing breakfast radio for so

811
00:40:12,125 --> 00:40:15,285
Speaker 1: many years, and doing breakfast radio you have to wake

812
00:40:15,325 --> 00:40:18,845
Speaker 1: up whistling and it's like you coming into the office here. Yeah.

813
00:40:18,885 --> 00:40:24,005
Speaker 1: So my muscles to be optimistic, to be cheerful, to

814
00:40:24,085 --> 00:40:27,805
Speaker 1: be funny, yeah, just and to be and to enjoy

815
00:40:27,885 --> 00:40:32,165
Speaker 1: the world are very strong muscles. And so I get

816
00:40:32,285 --> 00:40:35,525
Speaker 1: really annoyed in my household when people are grumpy. I

817
00:40:35,645 --> 00:40:37,765
Speaker 1: hate fucking bad mood people.

818
00:40:38,005 --> 00:40:41,885
Speaker 2: Yep, but you're not. That's interesting because the downside of

819
00:40:41,885 --> 00:40:43,805
Speaker 2: that is toxic positivity. But you're not that.

820
00:40:44,565 --> 00:40:46,165
Speaker 1: What is toxic positivity?

821
00:40:46,485 --> 00:40:49,325
Speaker 3: That's kind of like look at the bright side.

822
00:40:49,485 --> 00:40:52,885
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, no, no, no, I no, I don't

823
00:40:52,885 --> 00:40:53,365
Speaker 1: think I'm that.

824
00:40:53,965 --> 00:40:58,285
Speaker 3: It's like forcing everybody to not be able to experience

825
00:40:58,285 --> 00:41:00,685
Speaker 3: their full range of emotions. You're not that, because that

826
00:41:00,685 --> 00:41:02,605
Speaker 3: can be quite controlling and quite toxic.

827
00:41:02,965 --> 00:41:07,445
Speaker 1: No, but I think it's more about, certainly breakfast radio,

828
00:41:07,485 --> 00:41:10,485
Speaker 1: which is probably a metaphor for life. You're waking up

829
00:41:10,565 --> 00:41:16,245
Speaker 1: to the world. My job is to give listeners the

830
00:41:16,285 --> 00:41:20,805
Speaker 1: gift of faith. Faith in the day, faith that everything

831
00:41:20,805 --> 00:41:23,805
Speaker 1: will be all right, Faith that you are not alone

832
00:41:24,005 --> 00:41:27,125
Speaker 1: going through this, Faith that once you get out there,

833
00:41:27,205 --> 00:41:29,765
Speaker 1: it's going to be great. It'll be fine. It won't

834
00:41:29,765 --> 00:41:32,885
Speaker 1: be without challenges, but you're going to be fine because

835
00:41:32,965 --> 00:41:36,965
Speaker 1: you've got me, you've got him, we've got us. And

836
00:41:37,005 --> 00:41:42,365
Speaker 1: that also things in the world that might be ludicrous,

837
00:41:42,405 --> 00:41:47,005
Speaker 1: that might be frightening if you stop, if you don't

838
00:41:47,045 --> 00:41:49,285
Speaker 1: walk into the dark room with your eyes shut because

839
00:41:49,285 --> 00:41:51,365
Speaker 1: you're scared of what you see. But if you actually

840
00:41:51,365 --> 00:41:53,205
Speaker 1: open your eyes and you look across the room, there's

841
00:41:53,205 --> 00:41:59,885
Speaker 1: someone else there. You can turn that moment into something humorous.

842
00:42:00,005 --> 00:42:01,045
Speaker 2: So who is that for you?

843
00:42:01,645 --> 00:42:04,045
Speaker 3: If you were that for everyone during that dark time,

844
00:42:04,125 --> 00:42:04,965
Speaker 3: who is that for you?

845
00:42:08,525 --> 00:42:14,405
Speaker 1: My mother in law, Marie Peter's mum Peter to a

846
00:42:14,445 --> 00:42:17,045
Speaker 1: certain extent, but that was also very hard, that was

847
00:42:17,485 --> 00:42:20,805
Speaker 1: you know, a lot of relationships break up. Yeah, yeah,

848
00:42:21,005 --> 00:42:25,325
Speaker 1: and kids also, I'm very you know, cognizant of the

849
00:42:25,365 --> 00:42:27,445
Speaker 1: fact we had a good outcome.

850
00:42:27,485 --> 00:42:29,765
Speaker 2: So and was touching.

851
00:42:29,925 --> 00:42:33,525
Speaker 1: Yeah, and the people that didn't, the children that fell

852
00:42:33,605 --> 00:42:34,365
Speaker 1: along the way.

853
00:42:34,765 --> 00:42:39,245
Speaker 3: Would you sometimes in breaks just cry or you would

854
00:42:39,245 --> 00:42:41,165
Speaker 3: just be in there and you would be like, right,

855
00:42:41,925 --> 00:42:43,925
Speaker 3: the shutters are coming up or they're coming down, but

856
00:42:44,125 --> 00:42:45,125
Speaker 3: I'm like no.

857
00:42:45,285 --> 00:42:47,885
Speaker 1: In the break, we'd be talking about what was going on.

858
00:42:48,245 --> 00:42:50,245
Speaker 1: Hu's at some point go say, how are things?

859
00:42:50,325 --> 00:42:51,325
Speaker 2: How's it? Louis?

860
00:42:52,525 --> 00:42:54,005
Speaker 1: We talk about it, and then you.

861
00:42:53,965 --> 00:42:56,165
Speaker 2: Would just clicking to gear and click out.

862
00:42:56,245 --> 00:43:01,085
Speaker 1: Sometimes sometimes that was not not so much clicky, but

863
00:43:01,485 --> 00:43:06,565
Speaker 1: you just have to start the scene again, what are

864
00:43:06,565 --> 00:43:08,365
Speaker 1: you going to do? Four years?

865
00:43:09,525 --> 00:43:12,165
Speaker 2: In my head, it was two four years.

866
00:43:12,165 --> 00:43:14,765
Speaker 1: So for boys because of the lakini he had, because

867
00:43:14,765 --> 00:43:19,485
Speaker 1: it hides, it hides in the lining, in the in

868
00:43:19,525 --> 00:43:22,205
Speaker 1: the spinal cord and in the brain lining, and in

869
00:43:22,285 --> 00:43:26,045
Speaker 1: boys in the testicles. So for girls the treatment is

870
00:43:26,845 --> 00:43:30,165
Speaker 1: some good news. For girls, the treatment's much shorter. The

871
00:43:30,285 --> 00:43:34,205
Speaker 1: girls four years boys, yeah, four years four years of

872
00:43:34,245 --> 00:43:37,645
Speaker 1: chema yeah yeah, lumber punctures.

873
00:43:37,885 --> 00:43:40,805
Speaker 2: You had more children in that time, didn't you.

874
00:43:40,685 --> 00:43:44,925
Speaker 1: Know, I'd had I'd had Yarny. My youngest was five

875
00:43:44,965 --> 00:43:47,725
Speaker 1: months old when Lewis was diagnosed, so we had four

876
00:43:47,805 --> 00:43:53,845
Speaker 1: under six, and so when Lewis was diagnosed, I had

877
00:43:53,885 --> 00:43:57,725
Speaker 1: to stop feeding Yarny, obviously our youngest. And like it

878
00:43:57,765 --> 00:44:00,485
Speaker 1: was just like our daughter went to school too soon,

879
00:44:00,885 --> 00:44:03,445
Speaker 1: because it was like, everybody's got to get out of

880
00:44:03,485 --> 00:44:04,805
Speaker 1: the house because we're going to be at the hospital.

881
00:44:04,845 --> 00:44:07,005
Speaker 1: Everyone's got to get on with things. Chop chop. Like

882
00:44:07,085 --> 00:44:10,365
Speaker 1: it was a bit like that, and we didn't mean

883
00:44:10,445 --> 00:44:12,885
Speaker 1: to be brutal, but it did. There was a period

884
00:44:12,925 --> 00:44:15,805
Speaker 1: in which anyone else's ailment.

885
00:44:17,805 --> 00:44:18,645
Speaker 2: A lot of sympathy.

886
00:44:18,965 --> 00:44:21,845
Speaker 1: Yeah, because at one stage, Yanni, this is the worst

887
00:44:21,845 --> 00:44:24,885
Speaker 1: thing in the world, had a broken wrist for two

888
00:44:24,965 --> 00:44:28,525
Speaker 1: days and we didn't realize it because it wasn't lukem here.

889
00:44:28,565 --> 00:44:30,685
Speaker 1: And it was only when Ray came over and she

890
00:44:30,765 --> 00:44:34,205
Speaker 1: grabbed him to swing him around by his you know,

891
00:44:34,325 --> 00:44:37,085
Speaker 1: grabbed him his hands swinging in a circle, and he

892
00:44:37,205 --> 00:44:41,245
Speaker 1: let out this blood curdling yelp and it had a

893
00:44:41,245 --> 00:44:43,965
Speaker 1: broken wrist from where he jumped off the bottom stamp.

894
00:44:44,165 --> 00:44:49,805
Speaker 3: And how did you find the because you know, the

895
00:44:49,845 --> 00:44:54,245
Speaker 3: squeaky wheel gets the oil. So you know, you are

896
00:44:54,285 --> 00:44:59,325
Speaker 3: biologically programmed to focus all your attention on the weakest

897
00:44:59,325 --> 00:45:01,725
Speaker 3: link and the most vulnerable, which was for four years.

898
00:45:02,445 --> 00:45:08,245
Speaker 3: So at what point did that stop? Like, how did

899
00:45:08,245 --> 00:45:12,325
Speaker 3: you get to the point where you trusted his recovery

900
00:45:13,165 --> 00:45:16,725
Speaker 3: and you could look at your other kids and go mmmm.

901
00:45:17,525 --> 00:45:19,925
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm sure it wasn't like a click up thing,

902
00:45:20,125 --> 00:45:22,245
Speaker 3: but how did you navigate that?

903
00:45:22,645 --> 00:45:27,165
Speaker 1: So when Lewis finished treatment, we stopped doing breakfast radio

904
00:45:27,205 --> 00:45:31,445
Speaker 1: after twelve years men Hughsey, and he wanted to do

905
00:45:31,525 --> 00:45:34,045
Speaker 1: more stand up, which is the opposite of you.

906
00:45:33,965 --> 00:45:35,325
Speaker 2: Know, did you want to keep going?

907
00:45:36,165 --> 00:45:39,005
Speaker 1: No? No, I didn't want to keep going, but I

908
00:45:39,045 --> 00:45:41,365
Speaker 1: was happy for him to make the decision. I went unhappy.

909
00:45:41,405 --> 00:45:42,965
Speaker 2: Whatever you want. Why didn't you want to keep going?

910
00:45:42,965 --> 00:45:44,285
Speaker 2: The money's amazing.

911
00:45:44,525 --> 00:45:47,445
Speaker 1: Because I wanted to have a time at home with

912
00:45:47,525 --> 00:45:54,845
Speaker 1: yarny apropos boy to school, Yes exactly, because he had

913
00:45:54,885 --> 00:45:57,605
Speaker 1: been like from the womb untimely ripped or from the

914
00:45:57,605 --> 00:46:00,765
Speaker 1: boob untimely ripped. And I was always conscious of the

915
00:46:00,765 --> 00:46:03,565
Speaker 1: fact that we had this little one who I had

916
00:46:03,645 --> 00:46:07,445
Speaker 1: really not got to spend much time with her. If

917
00:46:07,445 --> 00:46:10,725
Speaker 1: I did, it was in between hospital visits, and you know,

918
00:46:11,885 --> 00:46:14,525
Speaker 1: so I took that. It turned out to be a year.

919
00:46:14,605 --> 00:46:15,925
Speaker 1: I didn't know how long it was going to be.

920
00:46:16,765 --> 00:46:19,445
Speaker 1: We finished during breakfast Radio, had a gorgeous fee Well,

921
00:46:19,445 --> 00:46:22,205
Speaker 1: it was just beautiful, and I thought it might be forever.

922
00:46:22,405 --> 00:46:27,325
Speaker 1: You know, when you worry you, No, it didn't worry me. No,

923
00:46:27,405 --> 00:46:28,525
Speaker 1: it didn't worry me.

924
00:46:29,125 --> 00:46:31,205
Speaker 3: But you went from making all of this money like

925
00:46:31,285 --> 00:46:34,765
Speaker 3: the breakfast Radio particularly then not so much now, but

926
00:46:34,885 --> 00:46:38,525
Speaker 3: then big best and biggest and most high profile job.

927
00:46:38,925 --> 00:46:40,005
Speaker 2: You guys were iconic.

928
00:46:40,325 --> 00:46:43,925
Speaker 3: Yeah, did you feel the need or you just felt

929
00:46:43,925 --> 00:46:47,245
Speaker 3: I need to just catch my breath now, I think so.

930
00:46:47,325 --> 00:46:51,205
Speaker 1: And then Peter uttered a phrase which as a modern woman,

931
00:46:51,365 --> 00:46:53,965
Speaker 1: I had never heard in my life, and it was

932
00:46:54,005 --> 00:46:57,045
Speaker 1: one of the greatest things any man has. It is

933
00:46:57,085 --> 00:47:01,245
Speaker 1: the greatest thing any man's ever said to me. He said, darling,

934
00:47:01,405 --> 00:47:03,885
Speaker 1: you don't have to work. I can look after both

935
00:47:03,925 --> 00:47:14,045
Speaker 1: of us. My wowd God, suck it suck. It's like so,

936
00:47:15,125 --> 00:47:17,485
Speaker 1: and I remember at the time you been the breadwinner

937
00:47:17,525 --> 00:47:17,885
Speaker 1: before that.

938
00:47:18,205 --> 00:47:20,125
Speaker 2: Yeah, you wear a lot of bread.

939
00:47:20,365 --> 00:47:23,325
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you need a lot of bread for six people,

940
00:47:23,525 --> 00:47:27,045
Speaker 1: Yeah you do. And so we'd made one of those

941
00:47:27,085 --> 00:47:30,805
Speaker 1: decisions you know, the you know, practical decision that because

942
00:47:30,845 --> 00:47:34,005
Speaker 1: I would earn more money than him, that he so

943
00:47:34,085 --> 00:47:36,485
Speaker 1: he did that. Probably he was at home for probably

944
00:47:36,525 --> 00:47:40,965
Speaker 1: about eighteen months, and then it just wasn't good for him.

945
00:47:41,045 --> 00:47:42,885
Speaker 1: It was never a point of he was never like

946
00:47:42,925 --> 00:47:45,125
Speaker 1: I don't want to do this. He was never resentful

947
00:47:45,245 --> 00:47:49,645
Speaker 1: or whatever. But I'm just like working man wasn't enough

948
00:47:49,645 --> 00:47:52,965
Speaker 1: for he needs to work. Yeah, like a working dog

949
00:47:53,085 --> 00:47:53,845
Speaker 1: needs to work.

950
00:47:53,925 --> 00:47:59,205
Speaker 2: Yeah. So I'm like, I'm working, I need to work.

951
00:47:59,405 --> 00:47:59,605
Speaker 1: Yeah.

952
00:48:00,005 --> 00:48:00,205
Speaker 2: Yeah.

953
00:48:00,285 --> 00:48:03,365
Speaker 1: So anyway, so it actually gave me the liberty to

954
00:48:03,405 --> 00:48:07,125
Speaker 1: say I'm going to be at home. I'm going to

955
00:48:07,205 --> 00:48:09,685
Speaker 1: be at home, and it was such a great only

956
00:48:09,765 --> 00:48:13,165
Speaker 1: ended up being one year, and it was a very

957
00:48:13,285 --> 00:48:16,965
Speaker 1: challenging year from what I recall, Well, because I was

958
00:48:17,005 --> 00:48:17,565
Speaker 1: at home.

959
00:48:18,085 --> 00:48:19,525
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was going to stay careful.

960
00:48:19,565 --> 00:48:21,845
Speaker 1: What you wish I was at home?

961
00:48:22,325 --> 00:48:24,045
Speaker 2: Yeah? Did you feel irrelevant?

962
00:48:26,925 --> 00:48:29,085
Speaker 1: I probably felt more irrelevant when we went and lived

963
00:48:29,085 --> 00:48:32,285
Speaker 1: in Italy when we were in an Italian class and

964
00:48:32,445 --> 00:48:36,125
Speaker 1: I said, and I thought, I was so proud with myself.

965
00:48:36,205 --> 00:48:40,525
Speaker 1: I said, I'm I'm Molieria Cassa or whatever, I'm housewife.

966
00:48:41,605 --> 00:48:44,125
Speaker 1: And if I said that in Australia at least a

967
00:48:44,125 --> 00:48:44,925
Speaker 1: couple of people.

968
00:48:44,725 --> 00:48:47,125
Speaker 3: In the road laugh and go, oh yeah, catlin Brook

969
00:48:48,205 --> 00:48:50,645
Speaker 3: because they're like, yeah, it wasn't ironic.

970
00:48:50,965 --> 00:48:53,685
Speaker 1: She is she's a housewife. Yeah.

971
00:48:53,965 --> 00:48:56,085
Speaker 3: Interesting, So that was like a stripping back of ego

972
00:48:56,085 --> 00:48:57,085
Speaker 3: because nobody knew you.

973
00:48:57,125 --> 00:49:02,605
Speaker 1: That totally very great. I heartily recommend it, heartily. That's

974
00:49:02,605 --> 00:49:07,725
Speaker 1: why I do yoga, because I need I need the humiliation. Yes,

975
00:49:08,085 --> 00:49:08,685
Speaker 1: that's true.

976
00:49:08,925 --> 00:49:11,885
Speaker 2: I have to having teenagers. What do you do? We're

977
00:49:11,925 --> 00:49:13,325
Speaker 2: having teenage I don't count them.

978
00:49:13,405 --> 00:49:16,805
Speaker 1: I don't count that. I don't count the steam's too high,

979
00:49:17,005 --> 00:49:19,965
Speaker 1: terrible time. No, yeah, you grown up children. I know

980
00:49:20,045 --> 00:49:23,925
Speaker 1: I bring, but I just don't. I can't take that on.

981
00:49:24,005 --> 00:49:27,005
Speaker 1: It's like women, you know, when you go shopping with

982
00:49:27,045 --> 00:49:29,645
Speaker 1: a teenage daughter. You see it all the time at

983
00:49:29,685 --> 00:49:33,885
Speaker 1: any Westfield and there's a woman with a certain posture.

984
00:49:34,565 --> 00:49:41,205
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, and the girls with it, and I'm just like,

985
00:49:41,325 --> 00:49:42,405
Speaker 1: what are we doing?

986
00:49:42,845 --> 00:49:44,005
Speaker 2: You do get through that?

987
00:49:44,285 --> 00:49:46,325
Speaker 3: Like I'm now at the point because I know what

988
00:49:46,325 --> 00:49:48,645
Speaker 3: you mean, I've done. I didn't realize that you would

989
00:49:48,645 --> 00:49:50,765
Speaker 3: ever get through it. But my daughter, who just turned nineteen,

990
00:49:51,445 --> 00:49:53,765
Speaker 3: now we can go shopping and it's delightful.

991
00:49:53,845 --> 00:49:54,725
Speaker 2: I think our girls are the same.

992
00:49:55,205 --> 00:49:58,805
Speaker 3: It's delightful and I will actually ask her advice and

993
00:49:58,845 --> 00:50:01,765
Speaker 3: she'll give it to me without making me feel like

994
00:50:01,805 --> 00:50:02,445
Speaker 3: a piece of shit.

995
00:50:02,605 --> 00:50:05,925
Speaker 1: Yeah, because I noticed, because I'm always, I think too

996
00:50:06,165 --> 00:50:09,285
Speaker 1: maybe too aware of not giving them too much power,

997
00:50:09,645 --> 00:50:11,245
Speaker 1: because you don't want to end up being one of

998
00:50:11,245 --> 00:50:15,765
Speaker 1: those women whose self esteem has just been totally strip

999
00:50:15,885 --> 00:50:19,405
Speaker 1: mind like a sloth scratching at a tree truck. There's

1000
00:50:19,525 --> 00:50:22,685
Speaker 1: nothing left because they've had years of should I where this?

1001
00:50:22,885 --> 00:50:25,565
Speaker 2: And the door's going? Where the gray one? Yeah? No, No,

1002
00:50:26,045 --> 00:50:27,605
Speaker 2: can't give away too much. You can't.

1003
00:50:28,005 --> 00:50:32,165
Speaker 1: Can't. Power is very important, and no matter where you

1004
00:50:32,245 --> 00:50:37,005
Speaker 1: find that power like you might be the nurturer, you

1005
00:50:37,125 --> 00:50:40,725
Speaker 1: might be the cook, you might be the one who's

1006
00:50:40,765 --> 00:50:44,085
Speaker 1: magical with the grandchildren. You might be doesn't matter. But

1007
00:50:44,205 --> 00:50:48,485
Speaker 1: you need to have a little patch of territory that's yours.

1008
00:50:49,045 --> 00:50:52,245
Speaker 1: And now I've got your fucking patch of territory. God,

1009
00:50:53,365 --> 00:50:55,965
Speaker 1: thank god, no one will try not to break it.

1010
00:50:56,485 --> 00:50:57,245
Speaker 2: You're so good at this.

1011
00:50:57,365 --> 00:51:00,525
Speaker 3: I can't think of anyone who is going to be better.

1012
00:51:00,605 --> 00:51:03,645
Speaker 3: I can't wait to be listening every single week. And

1013
00:51:03,685 --> 00:51:07,165
Speaker 3: what an honor to be your first guest. Literally, no

1014
00:51:07,205 --> 00:51:08,405
Speaker 3: one else in the building.

1015
00:51:11,005 --> 00:51:16,005
Speaker 1: Anyway. I love you, I love you. Enjoy your secret

1016
00:51:16,045 --> 00:51:18,005
Speaker 1: square well and some sunsha.

1017
00:51:18,085 --> 00:51:19,365
Speaker 2: You'll be the first one to know.

1018
00:51:25,405 --> 00:51:30,285
Speaker 1: So Maya has left the building and you are now

1019
00:51:30,325 --> 00:51:36,925
Speaker 1: in my culpable hands. Come back, Maya, Oh no, she's gone.

1020
00:51:37,445 --> 00:51:40,565
Speaker 1: I'll see you next week. The executive producer of No

1021
00:51:40,685 --> 00:51:47,565
Speaker 1: Filter is Naima Brown, Senior producer Grace ruverret producer Charlie Blackman,

1022
00:51:48,045 --> 00:51:53,005
Speaker 1: Audio production and sound design by Jacob Brown. And I'm

1023
00:51:53,085 --> 00:51:55,085
Speaker 1: your host Kateline Brook.