Speaker 1: You're listening to a Mother with Me podcast.
Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to biz in Box. I'm m Burnham
Speaker 2: and look I'm recording from home today. I have talked
Speaker 2: about working from home before, and I'm working from home today.
Speaker 2: I started work at nine am and I woke up
Speaker 2: at nine am.
Speaker 1: And I'm so first and that is amazing. It's probably
Speaker 1: the greatest benefit of working from home. I love that
Speaker 1: for you, m I love it. I never want to
Speaker 1: go back anyway. Every week we answer your burning career
Speaker 1: questions in the simplest way possible because we're busy and
Speaker 1: we know you're busy as well, so we're just going
Speaker 1: to give you the straight answers without the need for
Speaker 1: a corporate translator. This week we've got questions on professionalism,
Speaker 1: passive aggressiveness, and fashion.
Speaker 2: Jumping straight into it. So if we had someone DM
Speaker 2: a MoMA Mere Instagram bus account, you can follow us
Speaker 2: at is by Mama Maya and jump into our dms anytime.
Speaker 2: We're always stalking everyone on there. And we got this
Speaker 2: DM from Sarah. She says, Hi, I'm in my twenties
Speaker 2: and work in a team of all different ages. My
Speaker 2: boss is considerably older than me and I get the
Speaker 2: feeling he's dismissing me because of my age. How can
Speaker 2: I be taken more seriously by my boss as a
Speaker 2: professional colleague, not treated like a work experience in turn.
Speaker 2: So I haven't really experienced this myself, but it's kind
Speaker 2: of common where there's always like a big age gap
Speaker 2: sometimes when it comes to employee and employer. And I've
Speaker 2: actually had a friend who has the opposite experience where
Speaker 2: he's in his thirties and his boss is twenty two,
Speaker 2: And I think there's like a weird kind of dynamic
Speaker 2: of like you being old and having more life experience
Speaker 2: and then having to be managed by someone who probably
Speaker 2: doesn't have that much experience as you have. But I
Speaker 2: do think it's like, similar to Sarah, like a big
Speaker 2: age gap. There always is something weird about that.
Speaker 1: So now in an era where we've got five generations
Speaker 1: in a single workforce, which is the first time we've
Speaker 1: ever had that, so kind of crazy to Sarah's creestion.
Speaker 1: And I really love this question.
Speaker 3: I love it.
Speaker 1: You know she's even thinking about how can I be
Speaker 1: taken more seriously? It's hard to know without the details
Speaker 1: of why she thinks her boss isn't taking her seriously.
Speaker 1: You know, it's hard to know if she's actually doing
Speaker 1: anything wrong. It could be sort of a perception issue
Speaker 1: on his side. But there are some things you can
Speaker 1: do to start to elevate your perception as being more
Speaker 1: senior in people's minds. And so the first thing I'll
Speaker 1: love to think about is make sure you're not undermining yourself.
Speaker 1: Make sure you're not kind of having these I call
Speaker 1: them own goals. So there's a few things that we
Speaker 1: do sometimes that can make us come across as more junior,
Speaker 1: and you just want to make sure you're not doing
Speaker 1: those things. So things like getting sucked into complaining or
Speaker 1: office gossip, that's kind of a dead giveaway that you
Speaker 1: are junior. So just make sure you're not doing that.
Speaker 1: Don't be unreliable, so like tell people what you're going
Speaker 1: to do, do it, and then tell them that you
Speaker 1: did it. If you're consistently sort of just delivering on
Speaker 1: your core job, people are going to take you seriously.
Speaker 3: They will.
Speaker 1: And also, just don't write long emails. I think another
Speaker 1: dead giveaway that your junior is just like writing really
Speaker 1: long emails. So so no my own goals. And then
Speaker 1: there's just a couple of simple things that you can
Speaker 1: start to do to elevate yourself. So again, I think
Speaker 1: it sounds a bit like her boss has a problem.
Speaker 1: But some things that Zarah you might want to think
Speaker 1: about is, you know, start thinking about what the leaders
Speaker 1: think about. So what are the big things the company
Speaker 1: is working on? What are the big problems? Even asking
Speaker 1: your boss, like what's going on for you right now?
Speaker 1: What are some of the challenging things for you? And
Speaker 1: then start to think about how your work can help
Speaker 1: with those problems. So even asks them, you know, how
Speaker 1: can what I'm doing in my current role actually help
Speaker 1: on some of those bigger things, and just like start
Speaker 1: to elevate yourself and then get comfortable sharing your opinions
Speaker 1: as well. I think a lot of the chat that
Speaker 1: we get into when we're more junior is we think, well,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm just the person who's answering the customer
Speaker 1: service emails, Like my job isn't that important? Your job
Speaker 1: is actually so important because you have a ton of
Speaker 1: knowledge and information that people at a senior level don't have.
Speaker 1: So say, for example, you're the person who's answering the
Speaker 1: customer service emails, he might say you know, my initial
Speaker 1: point of view is we should do this because I've
Speaker 1: read one hundred customer complaint emails recently and I'm seeing
Speaker 1: this trend. I think we should do this because of
Speaker 1: that reason. I'm interested to hear her you're thinking about it,
Speaker 1: So just like, stop putting opinions out there, and that's
Speaker 1: going to start to elevate you as being more senior
Speaker 1: and to get taken more seriously.
Speaker 2: That is so good. Oh my god, that's so helpful.
Speaker 2: And then at the end of the day, if you
Speaker 2: do all of that and it still doesn't work, then
Speaker 2: he's just a.
Speaker 3: Bit of a dick exactly.
Speaker 2: So so we got this other DM and it's something
Speaker 2: that I feel personally attacked by because it's so relatable.
Speaker 2: Someone named Alex sent us this and she asked, is
Speaker 2: it okay to see see someone's boss into a thread
Speaker 2: if you're trying to escalate a task or problem personally. No,
Speaker 2: It's happened to me so many times where I've been
Speaker 2: asked to do something by email and it's like my
Speaker 2: manager CECED, my manager's manager CEC, like three of my
Speaker 2: colleagues are CC and I'm like, surely this is.
Speaker 3: Too much Okay.
Speaker 1: This is like the work equivalent of saying I'm telling mom.
Speaker 1: So the moment you see see someone boss into a thread,
Speaker 1: you're saying to that person, I don't trust you to
Speaker 1: handle this, and your relationship with that person is as
Speaker 1: good as done. So like, maybe this person's not important
Speaker 1: to you, maybe it's like an external partner or just
Speaker 1: like someone you don't really care about. Fine, but if
Speaker 1: the person that you're emailing with is important to you,
Speaker 1: do not see see the boss.
Speaker 3: Into the thread.
Speaker 1: I think it's like an instant reputation killer, and your
Speaker 1: relationship with that person is done. If you need to,
Speaker 1: you can take that communication and show it to your
Speaker 1: boss and kind of explain like I'm having this problem,
Speaker 1: or you can show it to someone else internally, but
Speaker 1: don't just start see seeing people on their side their
Speaker 1: boss into the thread. Another thing to think about is
Speaker 1: you don't know what kind of relationship they have with
Speaker 1: their manager. And I've had people do it to me
Speaker 1: right where they see see my manager and they don't
Speaker 1: know that I'm very close with my manager. My manager
Speaker 1: brings it straight to me and is like check this out,
Speaker 1: Like why is this person doing this too? How can
Speaker 1: I help you, and they're just like supporting me in
Speaker 1: that situation.
Speaker 3: So yeah, I do it.
Speaker 2: And then what would you do if you keep getting
Speaker 2: someone emailing you with your manager c seed and you're
Speaker 2: not that close with your manager. Is it something that
Speaker 2: you just have to get on with Would you talk
Speaker 2: to your manager about it and be like, I don't
Speaker 2: know why she keeps leaping me into these emails.
Speaker 1: I'm a massive fan of if the problem is with
Speaker 1: the other person, I always think it's best to try
Speaker 1: and solve the problem with that person first.
Speaker 3: So I just love leveling.
Speaker 1: With people, Like I don't know who this person is,
Speaker 1: if they working in the company or they're outside the company,
Speaker 1: but like, just level with people, Try and have a
Speaker 1: conversation with them, try and call them on the phone,
Speaker 1: or like go over to their desk if they're in
Speaker 1: your office and just like have a chat, like, Hey,
Speaker 1: can we talk about how we work together?
Speaker 3: Be human? And yeah, just level with them.
Speaker 2: Okay, good writing that down right now. So after break,
Speaker 2: we are breaking down probably the most serious conversation we've
Speaker 2: had on this podcast.
Speaker 1: M how much thought do you put into what you
Speaker 1: were to work every day?
Speaker 3: Oh?
Speaker 2: I know that, Like the fashion team at work are
Speaker 2: going to be so mad at this answer, But it's honestly,
Speaker 2: like five minutes. We're very casual at mum and man.
Speaker 2: It's very much like where what you want. But I
Speaker 2: have noticed that since I've been working more closely with
Speaker 2: men in the office, I have been more weary about
Speaker 2: what I choose to wear. I think that's something I've
Speaker 2: internalized in swet. I used to like go quite bra
Speaker 2: less at work, and sometimes when it's cold and the
Speaker 2: air cons are blasting, you do see the shape of
Speaker 2: a nipple sometimes, sue me, Okay, sue me. And then
Speaker 2: I realized that after a while, and I started to
Speaker 2: like progress in my career, and I've been going to
Speaker 2: like these really big sea your meetings with seeing your people,
Speaker 2: not just men, but women as well. I'm like, maybe
Speaker 2: I shouldn't be showing them my nipples, Like maybe I
Speaker 2: shouldn't be my first interaction with these people. And then
Speaker 2: since then, I feel like I've subdued my wardrobe quite
Speaker 2: a lot.
Speaker 1: This is such a valid point. Yeah, I really want
Speaker 1: to unpack this with you. I think this is very important.
Speaker 1: So the reason I ask about fashion is that our
Speaker 1: final question today comes from Bree, and she wants to
Speaker 1: know if it's okay to wear crocs to the office.
Speaker 2: And absolutely not. I ran to that we're done, We're done.
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to the podcast. I do not want
Speaker 2: to see a crop in my line of vision.
Speaker 1: Wow, I was gonna say, yeah, okay, maybe this is
Speaker 1: our first disagreement.
Speaker 3: M I'm into this.
Speaker 1: I will just say, just to give some more detail
Speaker 1: around Bree's situation, we don't really know what kind of
Speaker 1: office she works in, but let's say it's sort of
Speaker 1: a standard office vibe, maybe a bit like the.
Speaker 3: Mum and Mere office. So, M, explain your answer. Why
Speaker 3: is it a hard.
Speaker 2: No for me? I just think they're the most ugly
Speaker 2: shoe I've ever seen in my entire life. And you know,
Speaker 2: when you're having a bad work day, like you come
Speaker 2: into work it's a Monday, you're like, oh, I'm not
Speaker 2: really over the weekend. I wish I could have one
Speaker 2: more day off, and then you see a croc and
Speaker 2: it just makes everything ten times worse and you're already
Speaker 2: feeling it's just like you're setting everyone else. It's not
Speaker 2: just about you, you're setting everyone else up for a
Speaker 2: really bad day. Obviously, I'm like joking, like, you can
Speaker 2: wear what you want, Like I feel like I just
Speaker 2: talked about my nipples. Surely that's like ten times worse
Speaker 2: and wearing a croc.
Speaker 3: Wait wait, wait, wait wait?
Speaker 1: What if the crocs have cool little gibbits and you're
Speaker 1: wearing them with socks?
Speaker 2: Ah, if they look cool, I don't mind, But are
Speaker 2: they gonna be noisy? Like do I have to look
Speaker 2: at your croc? Cluss hear your croc? Because that's like
Speaker 2: a whole other level.
Speaker 1: Okay, so you hate crocs, m but the same kind
Speaker 1: of level of casual.
Speaker 3: What about songs in the office?
Speaker 2: Oh, songs in the office? I mean you get really
Speaker 2: nice like designer ones now, like quite fancy ones. So
Speaker 2: I wouldn't mind those, But I don't know how the
Speaker 2: honors do we need those? Like I'm not going to
Speaker 2: the beach or in the office.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: Maybe I'm just like a big fan of like don't
Speaker 2: keep your dogs out, like close shoes, closed shoes only.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I think it's along the similar vein. Like
Speaker 2: I was mentioning before about things that you are comfortable
Speaker 2: in that you want to wear to the office, because
Speaker 2: like I guess you want to be your most comfortable self,
Speaker 2: but you're actually not really sure if people who just
Speaker 2: not vibe that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean there is a like semi serious aside
Speaker 1: to this in that when you're going to the office,
Speaker 1: it's not like you're just in your living room at home,
Speaker 1: and you actually, you know, you're part of a team
Speaker 1: of people who all want to feel comfortable in that
Speaker 1: environment as well. So if this is a genuine question
Speaker 1: from three yes sus the vibes, look at the culture
Speaker 1: that your company has. You know, it's totally appropriate to
Speaker 1: ask your manager or someone else in the company if
Speaker 1: it's okay to wear crocs, like it's totally fine.
Speaker 3: To do that, or what the dress code is.
Speaker 1: I think it leads into the kind of wardrobe question
Speaker 1: that I have a lot is like is this two
Speaker 1: see through?
Speaker 3: Or is this actually pajamas? And I find myself asking
Speaker 3: that all the time.
Speaker 1: So I do think it kind of is hard to
Speaker 1: kind of know where the line is.
Speaker 2: So back to like my nipple dilemma, I feel like
Speaker 2: the whole reason why I like stopped kind of dressing
Speaker 2: like that was only internalized, Like no one ever told
Speaker 2: me that you shouldn't be wearing that top or anything
Speaker 2: like that. It was more like a personal preference of
Speaker 2: mine because of I guess the workplace that we work in.
Speaker 2: But I do know from friend who work in more
Speaker 2: like corporate roles that there is kind of like an
Speaker 2: unspoken attire that you have to abide by. And I
Speaker 2: think back, I'm going to say back in the day,
Speaker 2: but like I reckon, when I was probably born, like
Speaker 2: around the nineties and stuff, it was still very much
Speaker 2: like heel, skirt, blouse, blazer, And even though that's not
Speaker 2: really spoken about or like pushed formally anymore, I feel
Speaker 2: like a lot of them still dress that way. Is
Speaker 2: that like still a thing that's happening.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean you have to think about the way
Speaker 1: you dress is part of your personal brand, and when
Speaker 1: you're meeting people, one of the ways that they form
Speaker 1: an impression of you quite quickly is based on what
Speaker 1: you're wearing. If you are someone who is going out
Speaker 1: and meeting clients, you're actually representing your company in a way.
Speaker 1: What you're wearing sort of is part of the company's
Speaker 1: brand too. So yeah, I think it's different for every company.
Speaker 1: Like at Google, I could wear whatever I wanted and
Speaker 1: I loved it, I got to experiment, and I yeah,
Speaker 1: I loved just like wearing something that looked like pajamas
Speaker 1: to work every day and like lots of bright colors
Speaker 1: and stuff. But I do know that the people who
Speaker 1: I work in marketing, right, I know that people who
Speaker 1: worked in the sales team, who were going out and
Speaker 1: meeting clients, they did dress a little bit differently, and
Speaker 1: they probably thought about it in a different way. It
Speaker 1: wasn't just about them, it was also about how they're
Speaker 1: representing the company. So I just think, yeah, it's like
Speaker 1: sus the vibes that your company ask the question and
Speaker 1: think about how it's making you show up and how
Speaker 1: it's making the company show up as well.
Speaker 2: That's a good point. And do you have like an
Speaker 2: experience of where someone didn't really get the dress code
Speaker 2: at work?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's funny, like I know it kind of chatting
Speaker 1: about crocs and thongs and stuff and it's all sort
Speaker 1: of fun. But I remember talking to a senior leader
Speaker 1: at Google who actually worked in Silicon Valley in the
Speaker 1: head office, and he told me this story that the
Speaker 1: hardest conversation he's ever had to have at work was
Speaker 1: actually telling a gen Z employee that what she was
Speaker 1: wearing to the office was inappropriate, and he had to
Speaker 1: have several conversations with HR, coaching sessions with HR to
Speaker 1: coach him on how to have the conversation. And so
Speaker 1: it wasn't coming from him. Other people had been coming
Speaker 1: to him as her manager and saying this is something
Speaker 1: that we think.
Speaker 3: You need to talk to her about. He had to
Speaker 3: have the conversation.
Speaker 1: So, you know, again, like it comes down to how
Speaker 1: people are perceiving you. It is something you need to
Speaker 1: think about. But I'm still for the record, pro Crocs
Speaker 1: in the office.
Speaker 2: Okay, pro Crocs.
Speaker 3: You know what do it?
Speaker 2: I just know I'm going to go back into the office.
Speaker 2: Everyone's going to be wearing Crocs. I just know it's Crocs.
Speaker 3: Are a bit over now. I think we've moved on
Speaker 3: to other brands. They're two may strength.
Speaker 1: But thank you for helping us clear the Biez inbox.
Speaker 3: If you've got a work question, send it away.
Speaker 1: You'll find a link to submit your questions in the
Speaker 1: show notes.
Speaker 2: Also, if you missed it earlier this week, Mish and so,
Speaker 2: if you taught us a very valuable lesson on why
Speaker 2: it's not only okay but kind of essential to be
Speaker 2: part personality higher in your office, which is great news
Speaker 2: for me. We'll be back in the biz inbox next week.
Speaker 4: Bye bye, Mamma.
Speaker 2: Maya acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters that
Speaker 2: this podcast is recorded on