1 00:00:10,614 --> 00:00:15,294 Speaker 1: You're listening to a Muma Mea podcast. Mumma Mea acknowledges 2 00:00:15,334 --> 00:00:18,134 Speaker 1: the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast 3 00:00:18,214 --> 00:00:18,894 Speaker 1: is recorded on. 4 00:00:21,974 --> 00:00:22,134 Speaker 2: Hi. 5 00:00:22,334 --> 00:00:25,734 Speaker 1: I'm Claire Murphy. This is Mumma MIA's twice daily news podcast, 6 00:00:25,774 --> 00:00:29,734 Speaker 1: The Quickie. Rachelle recently dropped us a DM asking us 7 00:00:29,734 --> 00:00:31,854 Speaker 1: to look into something that has her concerned. 8 00:00:32,134 --> 00:00:34,814 Speaker 2: Are you guys aware of the imminent disaster that is 9 00:00:34,854 --> 00:00:38,854 Speaker 2: the new South Wales health psychiatry mass resignations and the 10 00:00:38,894 --> 00:00:40,774 Speaker 2: massive ripple effects this will have? 11 00:00:41,254 --> 00:00:44,014 Speaker 1: Today we speak to a psychiatric registrar who can tell 12 00:00:44,094 --> 00:00:46,814 Speaker 1: us firsthand whether the government position that this is all 13 00:00:46,854 --> 00:00:49,614 Speaker 1: tied to a wage rise argument is true or whether 14 00:00:49,614 --> 00:00:52,134 Speaker 1: there's more to the story as hundreds of public health 15 00:00:52,134 --> 00:00:56,134 Speaker 1: system psychiatrists plan to leave for good. But first, here's 16 00:00:56,134 --> 00:00:59,014 Speaker 1: the letters from the Quickie newsroom, Thursday, February sixth The 17 00:00:59,054 --> 00:01:01,934 Speaker 1: strain of bird flu that led to Ossie's supermarket shelves 18 00:01:01,934 --> 00:01:04,694 Speaker 1: bare of eggs has now been declared over, but we're 19 00:01:04,734 --> 00:01:08,014 Speaker 1: being worn to remain alert. Hundreds of thousands of birds 20 00:01:08,014 --> 00:01:10,254 Speaker 1: have been killed in Australia's bid to rid itself of 21 00:01:10,294 --> 00:01:14,294 Speaker 1: the H seven Avian influenza virus after Victoria, New South 22 00:01:14,334 --> 00:01:18,414 Speaker 1: Wales and the Act all experienced outbreaks. Each region has 23 00:01:18,494 --> 00:01:21,694 Speaker 1: now been declared bird flu free, with no new detections 24 00:01:21,694 --> 00:01:25,054 Speaker 1: since July last year. Were being worn to remain vigilant, 25 00:01:25,054 --> 00:01:28,414 Speaker 1: though with the H five N one strain devastating animal 26 00:01:28,454 --> 00:01:32,134 Speaker 1: populations overseas, it hasn't reached our shores yet, but it's 27 00:01:32,174 --> 00:01:34,894 Speaker 1: difficult to keep out with the migration of wild birds. 28 00:01:35,254 --> 00:01:37,894 Speaker 1: H five N one rarely affects humans and is not 29 00:01:37,974 --> 00:01:41,374 Speaker 1: easily transferred between people, but Australians have been told to 30 00:01:41,414 --> 00:01:45,934 Speaker 1: avoid contact with any sick or dead wild birds. Palestinians 31 00:01:45,934 --> 00:01:49,254 Speaker 1: fear that Donald Trump's comments about them resettling elsewhere while 32 00:01:49,294 --> 00:01:51,854 Speaker 1: the US takes control of the Gaza Strip is a 33 00:01:51,894 --> 00:01:55,094 Speaker 1: repeat of their expulsion from what is now Israel. Around 34 00:01:55,134 --> 00:01:58,614 Speaker 1: seven hundred thousand Palestinians were forced from their homes before 35 00:01:58,694 --> 00:02:02,254 Speaker 1: and during nineteen forty eight for the establishment of Israel 36 00:02:02,334 --> 00:02:05,614 Speaker 1: after World War II, an event referred to as the Nakba, 37 00:02:05,814 --> 00:02:08,894 Speaker 1: the Arab word for catastrophe. This led to the Arab 38 00:02:08,974 --> 00:02:12,694 Speaker 1: Israeli War War, after which Israel refused permission for Palestinians 39 00:02:12,734 --> 00:02:15,454 Speaker 1: to return to their homes, instead forcing them to live 40 00:02:15,494 --> 00:02:19,254 Speaker 1: in permanent refugee communities and camps in Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, 41 00:02:19,334 --> 00:02:22,654 Speaker 1: and the Israeli occupied West Bank. This war is part 42 00:02:22,654 --> 00:02:25,974 Speaker 1: of the core grievance between the two. Now many Palestinians 43 00:02:25,974 --> 00:02:28,334 Speaker 1: fear this is happening to them all over again, with 44 00:02:28,494 --> 00:02:31,694 Speaker 1: US President Donald Trump yesterday holding a press conference with 45 00:02:31,774 --> 00:02:35,334 Speaker 1: Benjamin Nettin, Yahu, Israel's Prime minister, saying the US will 46 00:02:35,374 --> 00:02:38,534 Speaker 1: take control of the Gaza Strip and that Palestinians should 47 00:02:38,574 --> 00:02:42,614 Speaker 1: be resettled. The latest prisoner swap between Russia and Ukraine 48 00:02:42,614 --> 00:02:45,574 Speaker 1: has seen the return of one hundred and fifty Ukrainian troops, 49 00:02:45,814 --> 00:02:47,774 Speaker 1: some that have been held by Russia for more than 50 00:02:47,814 --> 00:02:51,214 Speaker 1: two years. The swap happened after mediation by the United 51 00:02:51,254 --> 00:02:54,454 Speaker 1: Arab Emirates. The Russian troops taken to Belarus, where they're 52 00:02:54,494 --> 00:02:58,574 Speaker 1: now receiving psychological and medical assistance. Despite a lack of 53 00:02:58,574 --> 00:03:02,294 Speaker 1: substantial peace talks, the prisoner exchanges have been running smoothly. 54 00:03:02,734 --> 00:03:05,974 Speaker 1: Ukine President Vlodomi Zelenski also revealed that since the war 55 00:03:06,094 --> 00:03:09,534 Speaker 1: began three years ago this month they've lost forty five thousand, 56 00:03:09,854 --> 00:03:12,894 Speaker 1: one hundred soldiers on the battlefield, with three hundred and 57 00:03:13,014 --> 00:03:17,094 Speaker 1: ninety thousand injured. Those figures cannot be independently verified, with 58 00:03:17,334 --> 00:03:20,654 Speaker 1: US and European intelligence suggesting that the number of debts 59 00:03:20,654 --> 00:03:22,654 Speaker 1: on the Ukraine side could be as high as one 60 00:03:22,774 --> 00:03:26,254 Speaker 1: hundred thousand, with twice as many lost on the Russian side, 61 00:03:26,414 --> 00:03:31,014 Speaker 1: with thousands of civilian casualties mainly Ukrainian also lost. The 62 00:03:31,054 --> 00:03:34,334 Speaker 1: original lineup of the heavy metal band Black Sabbath, complete 63 00:03:34,374 --> 00:03:37,174 Speaker 1: with lead singer Ozzy Osbourne, will play together for the 64 00:03:37,174 --> 00:03:39,814 Speaker 1: first time in twenty years at a one off concert 65 00:03:39,814 --> 00:03:43,014 Speaker 1: in Birmingham. Since their last gig in two thousand and five, 66 00:03:43,134 --> 00:03:47,254 Speaker 1: the entire original lineup hasn't been together again, only appearing 67 00:03:47,334 --> 00:03:51,014 Speaker 1: at partial reunions. They're billing this as their final ever show, 68 00:03:51,214 --> 00:03:54,374 Speaker 1: inviting other heavy metal legends from Metallica to Alis in 69 00:03:54,494 --> 00:03:57,294 Speaker 1: Chains to join the lineup, with profits from the show 70 00:03:57,414 --> 00:04:01,254 Speaker 1: donated to charities including cure Parkinson's, a disease that has 71 00:04:01,294 --> 00:04:05,214 Speaker 1: plagued Osborne since he was diagnosed in twenty twenty. Travis Kelcey, 72 00:04:05,374 --> 00:04:08,614 Speaker 1: football player and Taylor Swift's boyfriend, has been asked about 73 00:04:08,654 --> 00:04:11,854 Speaker 1: how he feels about Donald Trump announcing he'll be attending 74 00:04:11,854 --> 00:04:14,094 Speaker 1: the Super Bowl game. He'll be playing in on Sunday 75 00:04:14,134 --> 00:04:17,294 Speaker 1: with his Kansas City Chiefs teammates. He told the reporter 76 00:04:17,454 --> 00:04:18,134 Speaker 1: it was an honor. 77 00:04:18,374 --> 00:04:18,934 Speaker 2: That's awesome. 78 00:04:18,974 --> 00:04:19,774 Speaker 1: That's a great honor. 79 00:04:19,894 --> 00:04:22,454 Speaker 2: I think, you know, no matter who the president is, 80 00:04:22,854 --> 00:04:25,414 Speaker 2: I'm excited. 81 00:04:25,014 --> 00:04:27,974 Speaker 1: To you, kay. So it's the biggest game of my life, 82 00:04:28,054 --> 00:04:28,214 Speaker 1: you know. 83 00:04:28,494 --> 00:04:29,894 Speaker 2: And having a president. 84 00:04:29,614 --> 00:04:31,334 Speaker 1: There that was the best country in the world. So 85 00:04:32,214 --> 00:04:34,334 Speaker 1: there was no mention of the comments Trump made about 86 00:04:34,334 --> 00:04:37,334 Speaker 1: his girlfriend Swift after she put her support behind Kamala 87 00:04:37,374 --> 00:04:40,334 Speaker 1: Harris during the election, Trump taking to social media to 88 00:04:40,374 --> 00:04:43,454 Speaker 1: say he hated her. That's your latest news headlines? Next, 89 00:04:43,534 --> 00:04:46,774 Speaker 1: why are psychiatrists quitting in New South Wales and why 90 00:04:46,774 --> 00:04:48,814 Speaker 1: does that mean? It may impact your health whether you 91 00:04:48,894 --> 00:04:57,294 Speaker 1: suffer from a mental health condition or not. In an 92 00:04:57,414 --> 00:05:01,374 Speaker 1: unprecedented crisis for New South Wales's mental health system, more 93 00:05:01,414 --> 00:05:05,054 Speaker 1: than two hundred psychiatrists have submitted their resignations from the 94 00:05:05,054 --> 00:05:08,374 Speaker 1: public health system, with forty three of them already having 95 00:05:08,454 --> 00:05:12,934 Speaker 1: left the job. This mass exodus represents over two thirds 96 00:05:12,974 --> 00:05:16,894 Speaker 1: of the state's public psychiatrist workforce, leaving just ninety two 97 00:05:16,974 --> 00:05:21,654 Speaker 1: specialists to manage the entire system. The situation reached a 98 00:05:21,654 --> 00:05:25,694 Speaker 1: critical point when around two hundred psychiatrists submitted their resignation 99 00:05:25,814 --> 00:05:29,534 Speaker 1: letters to take effect from January one. Mental Health Minister 100 00:05:29,614 --> 00:05:34,054 Speaker 1: Rose Jackson confirmed that while forty three psychiatrists have already departed, 101 00:05:34,294 --> 00:05:37,574 Speaker 1: this number is expected to rise. The government has managed 102 00:05:37,614 --> 00:05:40,974 Speaker 1: to secure twenty three locom positions, with eight more being 103 00:05:41,014 --> 00:05:46,614 Speaker 1: processed in an attempt to minimize service disruptions. While the 104 00:05:46,814 --> 00:05:50,414 Speaker 1: immediate trigger appears to be a pay dispute, with psychiatrists 105 00:05:50,454 --> 00:05:53,774 Speaker 1: seeking a twenty five percent pay increase against the government's 106 00:05:53,774 --> 00:05:56,694 Speaker 1: offer of ten point five percent over three years, the 107 00:05:56,814 --> 00:06:01,414 Speaker 1: underlying issues run much deeper. New South Wales currently faces 108 00:06:01,534 --> 00:06:05,974 Speaker 1: a thirty percent vacancy rate in psychiatric positions, the lowest 109 00:06:06,014 --> 00:06:09,134 Speaker 1: per capita mental health spending of any Australian state, and 110 00:06:09,174 --> 00:06:14,054 Speaker 1: excs during caseloads for existing staff. Doctor Elizabeth Moore, president 111 00:06:14,054 --> 00:06:16,974 Speaker 1: of the Royal Australian and New Zealand College of Psychiatrists, 112 00:06:17,334 --> 00:06:20,814 Speaker 1: emphasizes the severity of the situation, saying there is a 113 00:06:20,934 --> 00:06:25,534 Speaker 1: critical and chronic workforce shortage hampering the system's ability to 114 00:06:25,614 --> 00:06:28,374 Speaker 1: care for the people that rely on it. At its heart, 115 00:06:28,614 --> 00:06:33,334 Speaker 1: the issue is about patient safety and care. Associate Professor 116 00:06:33,414 --> 00:06:37,054 Speaker 1: Louise Stone, a prominent GP and medical educator offered a 117 00:06:37,134 --> 00:06:40,534 Speaker 1: powerful insight into the crisis, saying, what is being missed 118 00:06:40,574 --> 00:06:44,534 Speaker 1: here is what systemic disrespect and overwhelmed does to a 119 00:06:44,574 --> 00:06:48,654 Speaker 1: person who's dedicated their working lives to help people. These 120 00:06:48,654 --> 00:06:52,254 Speaker 1: psychiatrists have given fourteen years to train and have continued 121 00:06:52,254 --> 00:06:54,894 Speaker 1: to donate their time and energy to a system that 122 00:06:55,054 --> 00:06:59,014 Speaker 1: is broken. The salary disparity between New South Wales and 123 00:06:59,094 --> 00:07:03,934 Speaker 1: other states is also significant. Public health specialists in New 124 00:07:03,974 --> 00:07:06,974 Speaker 1: South Wales are the lowest paid in the country, with 125 00:07:07,054 --> 00:07:10,854 Speaker 1: their counterparts in Western Australia earning fifty one point six 126 00:07:10,934 --> 00:07:14,414 Speaker 1: percent more, the Northern Territory earning forty four points six 127 00:07:14,454 --> 00:07:18,854 Speaker 1: percent more, and Victoria earning thirty percent more. A psychiatric 128 00:07:18,854 --> 00:07:21,654 Speaker 1: registry based in New South Wales has agreed to speak 129 00:07:21,694 --> 00:07:24,934 Speaker 1: to the Quickie so long as he remains anonymous. I 130 00:07:25,014 --> 00:07:27,454 Speaker 1: know there are many factors that have led to this crisis, 131 00:07:27,454 --> 00:07:29,894 Speaker 1: but can you give us some insight into the challenges 132 00:07:29,934 --> 00:07:32,454 Speaker 1: psychiatrists face daily in the public system. 133 00:07:32,694 --> 00:07:36,294 Speaker 2: This is affecting the front line and the very big 134 00:07:36,374 --> 00:07:39,294 Speaker 2: parts of our mental health system that deal with very 135 00:07:39,414 --> 00:07:43,134 Speaker 2: serious and severe mental illness for people who have things 136 00:07:43,214 --> 00:07:52,014 Speaker 2: like psychosis, schizophrenia, mania, severe suicidality, depression, and criminal behavior 137 00:07:52,054 --> 00:07:55,214 Speaker 2: that may be associated with their mental illness. As you 138 00:07:55,214 --> 00:07:59,574 Speaker 2: can imagine, having these very seriously ill patients and not 139 00:07:59,614 --> 00:08:03,174 Speaker 2: having enough psychiatrists to look after them, it can cause 140 00:08:03,694 --> 00:08:07,694 Speaker 2: severe issues on the front line. For example, not having 141 00:08:07,814 --> 00:08:11,854 Speaker 2: enough psychiatrists to reviewations. People have been waiting in the 142 00:08:11,974 --> 00:08:16,774 Speaker 2: emergency departments unfortunately up to days, waiting for beds to 143 00:08:16,814 --> 00:08:21,614 Speaker 2: become available. In the psychiatric units, we are often offering 144 00:08:21,974 --> 00:08:26,134 Speaker 2: suboptimal care and that's causing a lot of moral injury 145 00:08:26,174 --> 00:08:29,654 Speaker 2: to everyone involved. Not being able to offer our very 146 00:08:29,774 --> 00:08:34,574 Speaker 2: vulnerable patients the care that they deserve is very difficult 147 00:08:34,734 --> 00:08:37,134 Speaker 2: for us personally and professionally. 148 00:08:37,734 --> 00:08:40,814 Speaker 1: Can you explain that to how does a mass exodus 149 00:08:40,854 --> 00:08:45,054 Speaker 1: of psychiatrists help fix that problem of under resourcing and 150 00:08:45,294 --> 00:08:48,574 Speaker 1: patient care? How is that the answer? And why are 151 00:08:48,574 --> 00:08:49,734 Speaker 1: people doing this now? 152 00:08:50,414 --> 00:08:53,014 Speaker 2: So this issue has been actually going on for a 153 00:08:53,054 --> 00:08:56,574 Speaker 2: while now, so I'll just give you some background. For 154 00:08:56,574 --> 00:09:00,294 Speaker 2: almost two years now, there's been an issue where the 155 00:09:00,374 --> 00:09:03,974 Speaker 2: other states in Australia pay at least thirty percent more 156 00:09:04,294 --> 00:09:08,374 Speaker 2: for their public psychiatrists. So the psychiatrists have been leaving 157 00:09:08,414 --> 00:09:12,694 Speaker 2: already about thirty percent of jobs for psychiatrists have been 158 00:09:12,894 --> 00:09:15,814 Speaker 2: vacant all over New South Wales, so the rest of 159 00:09:15,854 --> 00:09:19,534 Speaker 2: the seventy percent of psychiatrists have had to stretch themselves 160 00:09:19,614 --> 00:09:23,534 Speaker 2: and do the work of those missing thirty percent. There's 161 00:09:23,574 --> 00:09:27,174 Speaker 2: been situations where the psychiatrists can have up to five 162 00:09:27,254 --> 00:09:31,454 Speaker 2: hundred patients each or so in the community setting, and 163 00:09:31,974 --> 00:09:36,054 Speaker 2: as you can imagine, mental health issues require people who 164 00:09:36,534 --> 00:09:40,534 Speaker 2: know that patients very well and over time can get 165 00:09:40,534 --> 00:09:43,374 Speaker 2: a really good rapport with them, and having so many 166 00:09:43,414 --> 00:09:47,694 Speaker 2: patients really stretches out the remaining psychiatrists and causes them 167 00:09:47,734 --> 00:09:53,254 Speaker 2: to be working in very much suboptimal conditions. The psychiatrists 168 00:09:53,254 --> 00:09:57,414 Speaker 2: have very much been resigning in despair to try and 169 00:09:57,614 --> 00:10:00,694 Speaker 2: finally get the attention of the government and let them 170 00:10:00,774 --> 00:10:03,574 Speaker 2: know that there is a problem here. For months and 171 00:10:03,654 --> 00:10:06,174 Speaker 2: months they've been trying to get the government onto the 172 00:10:06,214 --> 00:10:09,934 Speaker 2: table to have these discussions. However, the government has refus used. 173 00:10:10,574 --> 00:10:13,334 Speaker 1: The New South As government has said that they simply 174 00:10:13,334 --> 00:10:17,654 Speaker 1: can't afford the pay rise that's being asked from them. 175 00:10:18,054 --> 00:10:19,014 Speaker 1: What's your response to that. 176 00:10:19,654 --> 00:10:22,934 Speaker 2: I don't really know all of the numbers in the treasury. 177 00:10:23,454 --> 00:10:26,734 Speaker 2: The responsibility of figuring out the numbers is up to 178 00:10:26,934 --> 00:10:30,974 Speaker 2: the government. However, I have been witnessing what's going on 179 00:10:31,054 --> 00:10:35,214 Speaker 2: with staffing with all of these psychiatrists' vacancies over the years, 180 00:10:35,254 --> 00:10:39,334 Speaker 2: and they have been employing this type of psychiatrist called 181 00:10:39,334 --> 00:10:43,494 Speaker 2: a locum psychiatrist, which is also a type of casual doctor, 182 00:10:43,854 --> 00:10:48,254 Speaker 2: and the locum psychiatrists of being getting paid much much 183 00:10:48,334 --> 00:10:52,774 Speaker 2: higher rate than the full time staff specialist psychiatrists do 184 00:10:52,934 --> 00:10:57,134 Speaker 2: in public hospitals. These jobs can be advertised for up 185 00:10:57,174 --> 00:10:59,934 Speaker 2: to three to three and a half thousand dollars a day, 186 00:11:00,414 --> 00:11:03,214 Speaker 2: and this money is coming out of the budget of 187 00:11:03,254 --> 00:11:06,774 Speaker 2: the state government. So I hear the government saying that 188 00:11:06,814 --> 00:11:10,094 Speaker 2: they can't afford this thirty percent pay rise for already 189 00:11:10,134 --> 00:11:14,614 Speaker 2: existing staff specialists. However, they are advertising and employing these 190 00:11:14,694 --> 00:11:19,534 Speaker 2: casual psychiatrists called locum doctors at very high rates, so 191 00:11:19,574 --> 00:11:22,534 Speaker 2: that money seems to be coming from somewhere. From first 192 00:11:22,534 --> 00:11:26,214 Speaker 2: hand experience, I can say it is much more effective 193 00:11:26,454 --> 00:11:30,134 Speaker 2: to have a full time staff specialist psychiatrist compared to 194 00:11:30,174 --> 00:11:32,774 Speaker 2: a locum psychiatrist, because they're the ones who are going 195 00:11:32,814 --> 00:11:35,614 Speaker 2: to be staying with the team long term and are 196 00:11:35,654 --> 00:11:40,414 Speaker 2: able to contribute to the education of the trainee psychiatrists 197 00:11:40,454 --> 00:11:43,654 Speaker 2: as well as being involved with patients long term over 198 00:11:43,694 --> 00:11:46,974 Speaker 2: the years, and that makes such an invaluable contribution to 199 00:11:47,054 --> 00:11:48,014 Speaker 2: the local community. 200 00:11:48,574 --> 00:11:50,534 Speaker 1: You touched on this earlier when you said that patient 201 00:11:50,574 --> 00:11:54,454 Speaker 1: care is suffering under this current system and that sometimes 202 00:11:54,454 --> 00:11:57,854 Speaker 1: await times in emergency rooms can stretch for days. But 203 00:11:58,334 --> 00:12:02,614 Speaker 1: what other impacts does this have on patient care as 204 00:12:02,614 --> 00:12:05,854 Speaker 1: it currently stands in New South Wales, especially with two 205 00:12:05,974 --> 00:12:09,454 Speaker 1: hundred or more psychiatrists handing in their resignation and it 206 00:12:09,734 --> 00:12:11,014 Speaker 1: potentially getting much worse. 207 00:12:11,454 --> 00:12:15,014 Speaker 2: People may be surprised by this, but psychiatrists are involved 208 00:12:15,054 --> 00:12:21,214 Speaker 2: in patient care in every aspect of public hospitals. For example, transplants, 209 00:12:21,934 --> 00:12:26,734 Speaker 2: psychiatrists are always involved doing psychiatric assessments on the recipients 210 00:12:26,774 --> 00:12:29,534 Speaker 2: and donors of organ transplants, and if there are no 211 00:12:29,614 --> 00:12:34,814 Speaker 2: psychiatrists available, these life saving operations can be delayed or 212 00:12:34,854 --> 00:12:39,374 Speaker 2: even canceled. We look after everybody, including people who have 213 00:12:39,534 --> 00:12:42,814 Speaker 2: cancer and might be on steroids for their cancer treatment, 214 00:12:42,894 --> 00:12:47,094 Speaker 2: and a lot of these medications have mental health side effects, 215 00:12:47,214 --> 00:12:50,174 Speaker 2: you know, and if we don't have a psychiatrist available 216 00:12:50,174 --> 00:12:53,014 Speaker 2: in the public hospital to look after these people who 217 00:12:53,054 --> 00:12:57,254 Speaker 2: have comorbid illnesses, that can impact their mental health, meant 218 00:12:57,254 --> 00:12:59,774 Speaker 2: to illness impact us all, and we never know when 219 00:12:59,814 --> 00:13:02,374 Speaker 2: we might need the support of a psychiatrist and the 220 00:13:02,414 --> 00:13:06,694 Speaker 2: mental health team. A lot of our patients are involuntary patients, 221 00:13:07,014 --> 00:13:10,854 Speaker 2: which means they're against their will to receive very important 222 00:13:10,974 --> 00:13:13,614 Speaker 2: mental health support for their own benefit and for the 223 00:13:13,614 --> 00:13:16,334 Speaker 2: benefit of the community. So if we don't have any 224 00:13:16,374 --> 00:13:20,774 Speaker 2: psychiatrists who are able to review the patients regularly and 225 00:13:20,854 --> 00:13:25,214 Speaker 2: make the very difficult decision to discharge them to community care, 226 00:13:25,734 --> 00:13:31,054 Speaker 2: often these patients will be languishing in involuntary detainment for 227 00:13:31,134 --> 00:13:34,774 Speaker 2: longer than required. This has a long flow and effect 228 00:13:35,094 --> 00:13:38,294 Speaker 2: the entire system just grinds to a halt or even 229 00:13:38,334 --> 00:13:42,814 Speaker 2: just slows down significantly. We also have public health psychiatrists 230 00:13:42,814 --> 00:13:45,014 Speaker 2: working in the community, and which we don't have enough 231 00:13:45,054 --> 00:13:48,734 Speaker 2: public health psychiatrists in the community. The most vulnerable people 232 00:13:48,734 --> 00:13:52,614 Speaker 2: who are not able to afford private health insurance go 233 00:13:53,254 --> 00:13:57,214 Speaker 2: untreated in the community after being discharged, and they become 234 00:13:57,294 --> 00:14:01,294 Speaker 2: more likely to relapse and then represent hospital clogging up 235 00:14:01,334 --> 00:14:02,854 Speaker 2: the system even more. 236 00:14:02,894 --> 00:14:06,374 Speaker 1: Is the pay rise. The short term answer here, obviously, 237 00:14:06,414 --> 00:14:09,774 Speaker 1: long term is staffing, and hopefully a significant pay rise 238 00:14:09,814 --> 00:14:12,854 Speaker 1: would attract more people into the public health system. But 239 00:14:13,334 --> 00:14:14,854 Speaker 1: is that the answer short term? Right now? 240 00:14:15,414 --> 00:14:17,774 Speaker 2: I think that would be part of the answer. We 241 00:14:17,934 --> 00:14:20,894 Speaker 2: are trying to find a way, or actually the psychiatrists 242 00:14:20,934 --> 00:14:22,934 Speaker 2: are trying to find a way because they're all my bosses. 243 00:14:22,974 --> 00:14:25,774 Speaker 2: I'm a psychiatry trainee. They're all trying to find a 244 00:14:25,774 --> 00:14:29,094 Speaker 2: way to make New South Wales more attractive to be 245 00:14:29,134 --> 00:14:33,854 Speaker 2: able to retain psychiatrists within the states. We no longer 246 00:14:33,894 --> 00:14:38,054 Speaker 2: have psychiatry registrars choosing to stay in New South Wales 247 00:14:38,134 --> 00:14:41,934 Speaker 2: health because the conditions have become so poor and uncompetitive 248 00:14:42,054 --> 00:14:46,814 Speaker 2: compared to private health. If we do retain more people 249 00:14:46,934 --> 00:14:51,814 Speaker 2: through incentives like competitive pay compared to other states, then 250 00:14:51,854 --> 00:14:55,374 Speaker 2: that would make the working conditions better for everyone. 251 00:14:55,814 --> 00:14:58,094 Speaker 1: What does the future look like for you seeing all 252 00:14:58,134 --> 00:15:00,654 Speaker 1: of this happen right now, you're still in training, Where 253 00:15:00,654 --> 00:15:03,014 Speaker 1: do you see yourself in the future when you are 254 00:15:03,614 --> 00:15:06,414 Speaker 1: graduated from this in becoming a full time employee in 255 00:15:06,454 --> 00:15:07,054 Speaker 1: this system. 256 00:15:07,454 --> 00:15:10,254 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's very difficult to look into that crystal ball 257 00:15:10,334 --> 00:15:12,094 Speaker 2: and see what the future is going to be Like. 258 00:15:12,334 --> 00:15:16,014 Speaker 2: I'm really hoping for this to be resolved and have 259 00:15:16,174 --> 00:15:19,614 Speaker 2: all of our psychiatrists come back to work. This is 260 00:15:19,654 --> 00:15:22,174 Speaker 2: what they love and this is what they have dedicated 261 00:15:22,214 --> 00:15:24,974 Speaker 2: their lives too. They've done medical degrees and trained at 262 00:15:25,094 --> 00:15:29,414 Speaker 2: least ten years to become psychiatrists, so I really hope 263 00:15:29,454 --> 00:15:31,734 Speaker 2: they can come back to work after this is all 264 00:15:31,774 --> 00:15:36,574 Speaker 2: sorted out. But for me personally, I've been really buoyed 265 00:15:36,654 --> 00:15:40,494 Speaker 2: by the public support that the psychiatrists have been getting. 266 00:15:40,494 --> 00:15:43,894 Speaker 2: There's been so many positive messages in social media and 267 00:15:43,934 --> 00:15:47,334 Speaker 2: directly to the hospitals in support of the psychiatrists, telling 268 00:15:47,374 --> 00:15:50,814 Speaker 2: us the importance of our work. However, I've been disappointed 269 00:15:50,854 --> 00:15:55,534 Speaker 2: in the government not seeming to understand what psychiatrists do 270 00:15:55,934 --> 00:16:00,494 Speaker 2: or value our work within the mental health system. For me, 271 00:16:00,574 --> 00:16:04,094 Speaker 2: in the future, I think we need to keep active, 272 00:16:04,294 --> 00:16:08,414 Speaker 2: keep political, increase public health knowledge in what we do, 273 00:16:08,614 --> 00:16:11,694 Speaker 2: and hopefully translate to that out comes for everyone. 274 00:16:12,774 --> 00:16:15,774 Speaker 1: We were supposed to be joined today by Helen Dowsley, 275 00:16:15,934 --> 00:16:19,134 Speaker 1: the co founder of the Drew's Law Project. When Helen's 276 00:16:19,134 --> 00:16:22,094 Speaker 1: son Drew was turned away from Gosford Hospital back in 277 00:16:22,134 --> 00:16:26,774 Speaker 1: September suffering severe psychosis, he was desperate. He'd been told 278 00:16:26,774 --> 00:16:30,254 Speaker 1: they couldn't help him unless he hurt himself or someone else. 279 00:16:31,134 --> 00:16:35,014 Speaker 1: Drew's answer to his increasing desperation was to throw himself 280 00:16:35,054 --> 00:16:38,854 Speaker 1: in front of a train. He miraculously survived, laying on 281 00:16:38,894 --> 00:16:41,654 Speaker 1: the tracks for seven hours before he was found by 282 00:16:41,694 --> 00:16:46,214 Speaker 1: emergency services. He lost a hand, suffered multiple fractures and 283 00:16:46,254 --> 00:16:49,414 Speaker 1: now lives with a traumatic brain injury. His life and 284 00:16:49,454 --> 00:16:51,694 Speaker 1: that of his families will now never be the same. 285 00:16:52,214 --> 00:16:55,174 Speaker 1: Helen had to rush him back to hospital overnight, which 286 00:16:55,174 --> 00:16:58,294 Speaker 1: is why we're telling his story without her today. Drew's 287 00:16:58,334 --> 00:17:01,134 Speaker 1: experience is just one of the thousands who are facing 288 00:17:01,174 --> 00:17:04,254 Speaker 1: an ailing mental health system, which now has even less 289 00:17:04,294 --> 00:17:08,334 Speaker 1: trained staff to help combat the issue. New South Wales 290 00:17:08,334 --> 00:17:12,054 Speaker 1: Health Minister Ryan Park has urged doctors to withdraw their resignations, 291 00:17:12,414 --> 00:17:15,374 Speaker 1: stating we don't want this action to take place. We 292 00:17:15,534 --> 00:17:17,974 Speaker 1: value the work that you do, but we as a 293 00:17:18,014 --> 00:17:20,894 Speaker 1: government are not in a position to offer wage increases 294 00:17:20,934 --> 00:17:24,614 Speaker 1: akin to around ninety thousand dollars. The Royal Australian and 295 00:17:24,654 --> 00:17:28,334 Speaker 1: New Zealand College of Psychiatrists acknowledges this isn't solely the 296 00:17:28,454 --> 00:17:32,574 Speaker 1: current government's responsibility, noting these issues stem from decades of 297 00:17:32,614 --> 00:17:37,934 Speaker 1: neglect and under investment in New South Wales's mental health system. 298 00:17:38,094 --> 00:17:39,774 Speaker 1: Thanks for taking the time to feed your mind with 299 00:17:39,854 --> 00:17:42,574 Speaker 1: US today. The quickie is produced by me Claire Murphy 300 00:17:42,614 --> 00:17:45,974 Speaker 1: and our Executive Producer Taylor Strano, with audio production by 301 00:17:46,054 --> 00:17:46,574 Speaker 1: Lou Hill.