WEBVTT - Dr Jeni Haynes Created 2681 Personalities To Survive Her Abusive Father 0:00:00.840 --> 0:00:05.200 Hello, I'm Kate Langbrook, host of No Filter. Today's guest 0:00:05.480 --> 0:00:09.400 is Jenny Haynes. Jenny has lived through things that are 0:00:09.480 --> 0:00:14.480 almost impossible to comprehend. As a child, she survived years 0:00:14.520 --> 0:00:17.720 of horrific sexual abuse at the hands of her father 0:00:18.520 --> 0:00:23.599 by creating what she describes as multiple personalities, thousands of 0:00:23.680 --> 0:00:29.200 distinct voices and protectors who emerged to carry memories, fear, pain, 0:00:30.360 --> 0:00:35.200 and meant that she could survive. In twenty nineteen, Jenny 0:00:35.280 --> 0:00:39.519 became the first person in Australian legal history to have 0:00:39.640 --> 0:00:44.320 those personalities accepted as evidence in a criminal trial against 0:00:44.320 --> 0:00:49.160 her father, testimony that helped convict him and sentence him 0:00:49.280 --> 0:00:53.280 to forty five years in prison. There's now a documentary 0:00:53.280 --> 0:00:57.480 about Jenny's life called We Are Jenny. But sitting across 0:00:57.480 --> 0:01:01.360 from her, what struck me wasn't just the enormity of 0:01:01.440 --> 0:01:06.880 what she survived. It was her warmth, her humor, her intelligence, 0:01:07.600 --> 0:01:11.120 and the extraordinary tenderness she has for the people she 0:01:11.200 --> 0:01:17.399 created inside herself in order to survive it. In this conversation, 0:01:17.640 --> 0:01:23.240 Jenny talks openly about trauma, memory, survival, and the internal 0:01:23.280 --> 0:01:27.400 system she built to protect herself. She explains how those 0:01:27.480 --> 0:01:32.080 personalities came to exist, what they carried for her, and 0:01:32.080 --> 0:01:34.640 why so many of them are still with her today. 0:01:35.600 --> 0:01:38.400 While we don't discuss the abuse Jenny endured as a 0:01:38.520 --> 0:01:42.720 child in graphic detail, it is still central to this conversation. 0:01:42.880 --> 0:01:47.880 So please listen mindfully. This is Jenny Haynes on No Filter. 0:01:48.680 --> 0:01:51.920 Doctor Jenny Haynes. Welcome to No Filter. 0:01:52.400 --> 0:01:54.280 Thank you. It's a total pleasure to be here. 0:01:54.800 --> 0:01:57.760 Well, you have been on No Filter before, sashay it. 0:01:58.120 --> 0:02:03.880 You had a most remarkable conversation with Maya. Yes, and 0:02:03.920 --> 0:02:07.720 Maya describes it as one of the most extraordinary conversations 0:02:07.720 --> 0:02:08.680 that she's ever had. 0:02:08.919 --> 0:02:14.160 Oh wow, thank you Mia. And she met so many 0:02:15.080 --> 0:02:19.160 aspects of you. Yes, Yes, she had the what we 0:02:19.240 --> 0:02:23.079 call the cavalcade of stars. Everybody flips in, says something 0:02:23.160 --> 0:02:23.920 and leaves. 0:02:24.280 --> 0:02:27.760 Which for people who don't know about you, you have. 0:02:29.240 --> 0:02:35.160 I have multiple personality disorder. It's more commonly termed dissociative 0:02:35.200 --> 0:02:41.600 identity disorder, but I prefer multiple personalities because it fits 0:02:41.639 --> 0:02:45.880 for my experience more than dissociated identiti stars. And I 0:02:45.960 --> 0:02:47.960 know that some people get quite upset about me not 0:02:48.080 --> 0:02:54.600 using the current terminology, but that's the terminology for psychiatrists. Right, 0:02:55.040 --> 0:02:57.720 I'm not a psychiatrist. I'm living there. And if I 0:02:57.760 --> 0:03:02.320 want to have multiple personalities in dissociated identities and don't 0:03:02.360 --> 0:03:07.160 see I'm causing anybody else any problem. Well that's interesting because. 0:03:08.320 --> 0:03:13.600 You don't seem to be disassociated, you seem to be associated. 0:03:13.000 --> 0:03:19.480 Exactly for me, the way disassociated identities tends to be 0:03:19.600 --> 0:03:25.959 written is we took chunks of ourselves and pushed them away. 0:03:26.520 --> 0:03:31.160 We've dissociated. They're not part of us now. I understand 0:03:31.200 --> 0:03:34.359 that that's the experience for a large number of people 0:03:34.400 --> 0:03:39.160 with DD. And this is just me reflecting on my experience. 0:03:39.200 --> 0:03:42.280 I'm not speaking for the large body of people out 0:03:42.320 --> 0:03:47.240 there with DID. But we didn't cut chunks of ourself 0:03:47.880 --> 0:03:52.800 and pushed them away. We actually created more of ourself. 0:03:53.360 --> 0:03:58.720 So we made people symphony, made people friends that would 0:03:58.720 --> 0:04:06.040 help her, and so we're not dissociated in a m 0:04:08.200 --> 0:04:12.240 push away. It's not a barrier. Yeah, right, So as 0:04:12.280 --> 0:04:15.000 we talk today, I have no doubt that a whole 0:04:15.040 --> 0:04:16.520 load of people are going to come and talk to you, 0:04:16.760 --> 0:04:20.240 because they're all sitting with me in the doorway facing 0:04:20.279 --> 0:04:24.320 the outside world, ready to talk. And that's what my 0:04:24.320 --> 0:04:29.360 life is like. It's like I walk around with two thousand, 0:04:29.480 --> 0:04:34.159 six hundred and eighty one other humans in my head. 0:04:34.520 --> 0:04:37.600 Now that's the same number that you had when you 0:04:37.640 --> 0:04:40.960 spoke to Maya. That's right, Still the same. 0:04:40.800 --> 0:04:48.440 Number, that's right. They well, when we integrated everybody and 0:04:48.440 --> 0:04:50.919 we came down to a very small number, it was 0:04:51.000 --> 0:04:55.680 hell never doing that again. But they were gone for 0:04:55.760 --> 0:04:58.680 a good nine years, and then when we started to 0:04:58.720 --> 0:05:01.440 make the statement, they came back to tell their stories 0:05:01.520 --> 0:05:03.400 and they went and sat in what we call the 0:05:03.440 --> 0:05:08.279 integration corridor, and they're sitting there ready to integrate, but 0:05:08.360 --> 0:05:12.920 it now takes from two thousand and nine to twenty 0:05:13.040 --> 0:05:17.400 and nineteen to actually get Dad in court. So they're 0:05:17.440 --> 0:05:21.240 waiting ten years. They're literally on hold, can't go anywhere, 0:05:21.240 --> 0:05:24.000 I can't do anything. They're waiting to testify so that 0:05:24.080 --> 0:05:27.839 then they can integrate and go away. And when we 0:05:27.960 --> 0:05:33.200 did the testifying, we went back to everybody and said, well, 0:05:33.440 --> 0:05:35.559 you know, you were there for the bad times, would 0:05:35.560 --> 0:05:37.919 you like to be here for some fun? And so 0:05:38.080 --> 0:05:42.000 people are actually sticking around to do something fun before 0:05:42.080 --> 0:05:45.960 they then take the step into integration and bringing down 0:05:46.040 --> 0:05:49.520 the numbers. So when you say fun, you're talking about 0:05:50.320 --> 0:05:55.200 what I would call from my perspective, vindication. When I 0:05:55.240 --> 0:05:58.520 talk about fun, I'm talking about the ability to eat pineapple. 0:05:59.560 --> 0:06:02.320 That's how basics some of these altars are. I have 0:06:02.400 --> 0:06:05.520 a girl who only wants to eat pineapple. That's her 0:06:05.880 --> 0:06:10.680 fun thing to do. So it's a bit of a challenge. 0:06:11.560 --> 0:06:16.719 So everybody's coming to do something enjoyable because their life 0:06:16.960 --> 0:06:20.400 was well fourteen nine years of hell. And I'm not 0:06:20.440 --> 0:06:22.960 going to say to them, Little Ricky will not say 0:06:23.000 --> 0:06:27.240 to them it is your turn to integrate now without 0:06:27.279 --> 0:06:31.360 them actually coming out and doing something enjoyable. It might 0:06:31.400 --> 0:06:34.000 be go to the beach, it might be play magic, 0:06:34.040 --> 0:06:38.160 the gathering, gone to a Dungeons and Dragons day, eat pineapple, 0:06:38.400 --> 0:06:45.200 eat banana, it could be anything. So for people who 0:06:45.240 --> 0:06:48.800 may not know, they start at the beginning, start at 0:06:48.839 --> 0:06:54.520 the beginning. So in your case, I'm assuming that this 0:06:54.640 --> 0:06:58.560 is often the case that the altars come forward these 0:06:58.720 --> 0:07:06.679 other personalities because of trauma. Yeah, so oh it's happening. 0:07:07.440 --> 0:07:15.000 Who is it? Hi, Kate, I'm symphony Symphony, and I'm 0:07:15.000 --> 0:07:17.640 going to come answer your question. Thank you, my goodness, 0:07:17.680 --> 0:07:20.040 you're looking for more beautiful in person than you do 0:07:20.160 --> 0:07:24.600 on the Telly Symphony, The beauty of a four year 0:07:24.640 --> 0:07:33.320 old girl. She's she's oh sorry. So I was born, 0:07:34.240 --> 0:07:37.760 and then I started to deal with the horrendous life 0:07:37.840 --> 0:07:42.280 with Dad. And Daddy was not groovy, but he's he 0:07:42.480 --> 0:07:47.760 was my job to look after. So I had to 0:07:47.920 --> 0:07:51.480 deal with Daddy. And there were things that happened along 0:07:51.520 --> 0:07:53.600 the way that made it hard for me to deal 0:07:53.680 --> 0:07:57.880 with Daddy. And I accidentally made other people to take 0:07:57.960 --> 0:08:01.440 care of what I called the distracting yes, because it 0:08:01.600 --> 0:08:05.679 was so extreme. Yeah, you can't do what Daddy wants 0:08:05.840 --> 0:08:09.880 when you're inhaling his horrendous smell at the same time. 0:08:10.240 --> 0:08:13.200 So we brought somebody who could take the smell away. 0:08:14.080 --> 0:08:18.600 We created somebody who could take his noises away. We 0:08:19.000 --> 0:08:23.320 developed somebody who doesn't breathe. George Blair West as psychiatrist, 0:08:23.440 --> 0:08:25.800 really freaked every time the boy who didn't breathe came 0:08:25.880 --> 0:08:29.000 for a visit, because he doesn't breathe. It's literally, he 0:08:29.120 --> 0:08:34.199 doesn't breathe. But everybody that I made, I made them 0:08:34.440 --> 0:08:39.360 so that they would take away the things that made 0:08:39.400 --> 0:08:44.160 it hard for me to deal with Daddy. And I 0:08:44.320 --> 0:08:50.880 didn't realize I was making so many I could create 0:08:52.240 --> 0:08:55.280 anywhere up to fifty altars in a day if Dad 0:08:55.400 --> 0:09:04.560 was being particularly unpleasant, but they would come. So let's 0:09:04.640 --> 0:09:07.959 take the guy who deals with the smell. Dad smells 0:09:08.080 --> 0:09:11.560 like the most unwashed construction worker combined with the smell 0:09:11.640 --> 0:09:14.440 of burning baker light, which is what old TVs were 0:09:14.480 --> 0:09:17.640 made of in the seventies. And Dad reeks of this, 0:09:18.080 --> 0:09:24.439 and it's an overpowering, smothering, choking smell. So we created 0:09:24.640 --> 0:09:28.720 alters that could take the smell away. So I deal 0:09:28.800 --> 0:09:32.480 with Dad and the smell is dealt with by somebody 0:09:32.559 --> 0:09:35.679 else so that I don't have to fight to be 0:09:35.760 --> 0:09:38.559 able to deal with what Daddy is expecting us to do, 0:09:39.280 --> 0:09:42.120 which for those people who don't know, is really unpleasant. 0:09:42.160 --> 0:09:45.319 And we'll probably leave it at that. Okay, we don't 0:09:45.520 --> 0:09:48.599 not go into any I don't want to do this. 0:09:49.160 --> 0:09:51.440 I just want to make sure that everybody that listens 0:09:51.520 --> 0:09:55.960 to this or watches this knows that I am going 0:09:56.040 --> 0:09:59.840 to do my absolute best not to trigger or distress 0:10:00.080 --> 0:10:03.640 any of you, because that's what Daddy does. That's not 0:10:03.800 --> 0:10:08.200 what symphony does. And Symphony might I say, you've done 0:10:08.200 --> 0:10:13.199 an extraordinary job. Thank you, thank you so much, and you've. 0:10:13.080 --> 0:10:19.920 Shown incredible courage looking after that little girl that was 0:10:19.960 --> 0:10:20.480 your friend. 0:10:20.760 --> 0:10:25.520 Yes, I looked after Jennifer Margaret Linda, And so when 0:10:25.600 --> 0:10:31.040 people want to know where's the original child, we finally 0:10:31.200 --> 0:10:35.480 let go of her in twenty twenty and she was 0:10:35.559 --> 0:10:37.880 six months old when I let go of her, and 0:10:38.040 --> 0:10:41.040 she is now. She just turned fifty six at our 0:10:41.240 --> 0:10:45.720 most recent birthday. And she grew from zero to fifty 0:10:45.760 --> 0:10:49.120 six in less than five years? And how was it 0:10:49.240 --> 0:10:52.800 watching that? It was so cool? And now she's like, 0:10:52.920 --> 0:10:58.120 I can actually give back to you guys, because everything 0:10:58.280 --> 0:11:02.120 was about protecting Jennifer Margaret. And we say her full 0:11:02.240 --> 0:11:08.360 name because it differentiates her there, differentiates her from the 0:11:09.120 --> 0:11:12.520 other idea of who Jenny is, right, because we don't 0:11:12.679 --> 0:11:17.959 actually create alters named Jenny. I just became Jenny. My 0:11:18.080 --> 0:11:20.719 name is symphony. Actually my name is the symbol for 0:11:20.840 --> 0:11:26.040 the treble cleft. Yes, and your musical yes. Yes, And 0:11:26.280 --> 0:11:34.640 was musical music part of what was created to protect music? Yes? 0:11:34.960 --> 0:11:39.520 In the short yes, But Daddy told us he could 0:11:39.600 --> 0:11:42.520 read our minds and if we even thought about telling, 0:11:43.040 --> 0:11:46.120 he would kill my siblings, the cats, the guinea pigs, 0:11:46.160 --> 0:11:50.040 and my mummy. So we think in song lyrics, right, 0:11:50.480 --> 0:11:52.120 and that can be very entertaining. 0:11:52.840 --> 0:11:54.840 A Yeah. 0:11:55.800 --> 0:12:00.559 When we wrote our victim impact statement, we had to 0:12:00.720 --> 0:12:04.960 try to explain the concept of how Daddy is inconstant 0:12:05.720 --> 0:12:10.959 so what is what he wants today is not what 0:12:11.040 --> 0:12:13.880 he's going to want tomorrow. So he would hit me 0:12:14.000 --> 0:12:16.559 until I cried because I wasn't crying, and then he 0:12:16.600 --> 0:12:18.480 would hit me because I was crying, and then he 0:12:18.480 --> 0:12:21.360 would hit me because I was crying unnecessarily, and he'd 0:12:21.360 --> 0:12:25.400 give me something to pooter about. So he was super inconsistent. 0:12:25.720 --> 0:12:29.599 But we had to try to describe that in a 0:12:29.679 --> 0:12:33.480 victim impact statement and we ended up with meat loafs. 0:12:33.520 --> 0:12:36.600 When the rubber meets the road, yes means no, means 0:12:36.679 --> 0:12:40.080 yes means no when the rubber meets the road. Did 0:12:40.200 --> 0:12:42.520 not think we'd ever quote a song about a condom. 0:12:45.559 --> 0:12:51.600 You know, your case was extraordinary for a number of reasons. 0:12:55.400 --> 0:13:02.800 Extraordinary in truly terrible ways, but also extraordinary in legal 0:13:03.520 --> 0:13:08.640 changing ways, and yes, obviously life changing for you because 0:13:09.080 --> 0:13:14.760 I believe it was the first time that alters the 0:13:14.920 --> 0:13:20.199 other personalities were allowed to testify in court, allowed to 0:13:20.280 --> 0:13:20.920 give evidence. 0:13:21.160 --> 0:13:26.400 That's right. We're the first successful case where the prosecution 0:13:26.679 --> 0:13:32.240 has been able to use multiple personalities dissociated identities to 0:13:32.640 --> 0:13:37.559 prove abuse, so it had never been tried before. The 0:13:37.720 --> 0:13:43.720 only time MPD had come up in the legal area 0:13:44.440 --> 0:13:49.440 previously had been cases where people had attempted to claim 0:13:49.480 --> 0:13:56.559 they had MPD to reduce their culpability, which absolutely burns 0:13:56.760 --> 0:14:00.079 me because we believe if the gob said it and 0:14:00.200 --> 0:14:02.599 the body done it, we all own it. 0:14:02.920 --> 0:14:04.280 So this not. 0:14:05.920 --> 0:14:13.160 Being responsible because you have MPD is utter bullshit to us. 0:14:13.640 --> 0:14:16.439 You know what was extraordinary and because there's a docco 0:14:16.679 --> 0:14:20.160 coming out, a documentary about you called We Are Jenny, 0:14:20.280 --> 0:14:24.760 That's right, in which you revisit your family home and 0:14:24.880 --> 0:14:29.120 the scene, yes, where this horrendous abuse and torture took 0:14:29.200 --> 0:14:32.040 place at the hands of your father. But in it 0:14:32.120 --> 0:14:38.760 we're introduced to not just not just your characters, yes, 0:14:39.640 --> 0:14:45.520 but also your psychiatrist and a very beautiful inspective detective 0:14:45.840 --> 0:14:48.800 inspected detective Paul. 0:14:48.680 --> 0:14:54.240 Who believed you. These people believed you, that's right. It 0:14:54.480 --> 0:14:58.720 all begins in two thousand and nine when I went 0:14:58.840 --> 0:15:03.400 to the Queensland Police and I met a gentleman named 0:15:03.880 --> 0:15:07.520 Rod Messa, and we started to tell our story and 0:15:07.640 --> 0:15:11.200 then we said we need to tell you something. We 0:15:11.400 --> 0:15:15.880 have multiple personality disorder. And Rod Messa said that actually 0:15:16.160 --> 0:15:20.480 increases your credibility, it doesn't decrease it. And he's the 0:15:20.720 --> 0:15:26.600 first one who believed me in a legal setting, right, 0:15:26.720 --> 0:15:32.360 And how did that feel? I think that there are 0:15:32.440 --> 0:15:36.200 still some altars that are still shaking from that comment 0:15:36.520 --> 0:15:41.160 because it ricocheted through the system and everybody that has 0:15:41.240 --> 0:15:45.360 had a bad time immediately goes back to those altars 0:15:45.440 --> 0:15:49.160 that hold Rod Messa's words sacred. And if you have 0:15:49.200 --> 0:15:50.520 it a bad time, you just go and listen to 0:15:50.600 --> 0:15:53.920 Rod Missa tell you that you're credible, beautiful, and also 0:15:54.040 --> 0:15:57.520 because they're people who deal in facts exactly. And so 0:15:57.760 --> 0:16:00.600 he took our statement or let us make gas statement. 0:16:01.040 --> 0:16:05.920 And then about a year later it landed on Paulstermullus's 0:16:06.000 --> 0:16:12.800 desk in Bankstown Area Command in New South Wales, and 0:16:14.320 --> 0:16:19.040 Paul believed us. Yes, and Paul has been with us 0:16:19.840 --> 0:16:23.720 ever since, and he's a magic. He had a photo 0:16:24.000 --> 0:16:28.320 of your father, Oh yes, yes on his desk. He 0:16:28.480 --> 0:16:31.760 saw it every day when he started work, and he 0:16:31.840 --> 0:16:33.640 looked at it every day when he ended work. I 0:16:33.760 --> 0:16:38.920 personally think that's just nightmare, but it motivated Paul and 0:16:39.080 --> 0:16:43.160 when we were getting knockbacks from people who thought, you know, 0:16:43.360 --> 0:16:46.360 this woman's a bit lulu. You know there's something very 0:16:46.440 --> 0:16:50.880 wrong with her because she can remember everything, everything Daddy said, 0:16:50.960 --> 0:16:53.840 everything that he did, what he said, when he said it, 0:16:53.960 --> 0:16:57.200 how he said it. And people can't really struggle to 0:16:57.240 --> 0:17:00.960 believe that. But to me, I mean when they tell you, now, 0:17:01.040 --> 0:17:04.120 this is just my One of my things that annoys 0:17:04.200 --> 0:17:09.520 me is there. You cannot get justice if you were 0:17:09.600 --> 0:17:13.760 abused under the age of five unless you are still 0:17:13.800 --> 0:17:18.119 a child when you talk about it, which is often 0:17:18.400 --> 0:17:22.679 impossible to do. And why because they can't the community 0:17:23.440 --> 0:17:27.680 justice systems have a difficulty believing that you can remember 0:17:27.800 --> 0:17:31.280 what happened to you when you're a tiny child. Now, 0:17:31.560 --> 0:17:34.359 if we think about that for a few seconds, that 0:17:34.520 --> 0:17:38.200 to get out of jail free card for every child 0:17:38.320 --> 0:17:41.320 molester in the world. Rape your child before the age 0:17:41.359 --> 0:17:44.399 of five, and they'll never get justice because that's not 0:17:44.480 --> 0:17:49.240 seen as credible. Exactly. But trauma memory stays in your 0:17:49.440 --> 0:17:55.000 head in a different way from non traumatic memories. You 0:17:55.280 --> 0:17:58.760 I can't remember every day getting up, cleaning my teeth, 0:17:58.920 --> 0:18:01.320 having a bath, or what, but I can tell you 0:18:02.240 --> 0:18:06.800 enormous items that happened because they were traumatic, and my 0:18:07.000 --> 0:18:09.879 altars just took those memories and they hold them sacred. 0:18:10.040 --> 0:18:17.560 Well interesting because Paul the detective said, when when your 0:18:17.640 --> 0:18:23.760 altars were recounting these multiple incidences of abuse, it was 0:18:23.840 --> 0:18:28.000 as fresh as as if it happened yesterday, because for 0:18:28.200 --> 0:18:31.680 them it did, it was yesterday. I mean, if you 0:18:31.840 --> 0:18:38.359 ask us to visualize the house, we don't have to 0:18:38.600 --> 0:18:41.040 visualize it. We can go inside and we can look 0:18:41.080 --> 0:18:43.520 and it'll be sitting here as real as you are, 0:18:44.480 --> 0:18:47.360 and then it's easy over the kitchens here, the bedrooms there. 0:18:48.720 --> 0:18:56.040 In the documentary, they showed multiple times us going into 0:18:56.119 --> 0:18:59.600 my dad's bedroom and that was a very scary place 0:18:59.680 --> 0:19:03.760 for us. But when we did the walkthrough, we'd only 0:19:03.880 --> 0:19:06.199 been in that house as a child and we were 0:19:06.240 --> 0:19:11.880 a child's height. When we went into that room as 0:19:11.920 --> 0:19:15.960 an adult, it hit me. It felt like the room 0:19:16.080 --> 0:19:18.720 reached out and slapped me across the face because I 0:19:19.040 --> 0:19:23.760 finally understood a thing that had puzzled me my whole life. 0:19:24.720 --> 0:19:29.680 When we moved in, my parents got a like a 0:19:29.880 --> 0:19:33.440 wardrobe chest of drawers kind of affair. It was two 0:19:33.640 --> 0:19:36.800 wardrobes on either side of chester drawers and then a 0:19:36.920 --> 0:19:41.400 built in, backed up mirror, and when we first moved 0:19:41.440 --> 0:19:44.720 in it was on the far side of my parents' bed. 0:19:45.760 --> 0:19:49.399 Two weeks later it had been the mirror had been 0:19:49.480 --> 0:19:51.640 taken out and moved to the other side of the room. 0:19:52.119 --> 0:19:54.280 Now it puzzled me because it really broke up the 0:19:54.560 --> 0:19:56.359 entire setting, and I thought it was a bit bizarre. 0:19:57.880 --> 0:20:00.639 It's only when I walked in as an adult and 0:20:00.800 --> 0:20:04.000 realized that from standing in the doorway, I would have 0:20:04.119 --> 0:20:09.280 been reflected in that mirror. And that's when it hit 0:20:09.480 --> 0:20:16.879 me how calculating and how aware my father was of 0:20:17.160 --> 0:20:20.359 danger of being found out. And that's why we have 0:20:20.520 --> 0:20:23.960 to have a two minute break after we walked into 0:20:24.040 --> 0:20:27.639 his bedroom because everything just made sense. 0:20:29.119 --> 0:20:33.920 I'll be back with Jenny after this short break when 0:20:34.000 --> 0:20:40.000 you went back to the house for the documentary. You 0:20:40.880 --> 0:20:42.320 Jenny were there. 0:20:45.000 --> 0:20:48.200 When we went back for the walkthrough in twenty fifteen. 0:20:51.240 --> 0:20:54.000 I would say that when we walked up to the 0:20:54.640 --> 0:20:56.639 house there would have been at least two hundred and 0:20:56.680 --> 0:20:58.960 fifty alters in the body at the same time, and 0:20:59.160 --> 0:21:03.840 everyone is going, look, the rockery is still there, the 0:21:05.440 --> 0:21:08.439 fence on the side, although the fence itself has changed, 0:21:08.600 --> 0:21:11.200 it's in exactly the same positions where our where Dad 0:21:11.240 --> 0:21:16.560 put the barrier so we couldn't escape. Everything was the same, 0:21:17.080 --> 0:21:18.840 and then we were able to go through and talk 0:21:18.840 --> 0:21:22.919 about what was different. But as to having a Jenny 0:21:23.000 --> 0:21:26.840 that was there, we had a front runner at the time, 0:21:27.520 --> 0:21:31.359 and she was there. And this is the person that 0:21:32.119 --> 0:21:35.440 most a front runner is the person that you would 0:21:35.520 --> 0:21:38.560 engage with if you were seeing Jenny. You meet me 0:21:38.640 --> 0:21:41.320 on the street and you say hello, and you're talking 0:21:41.440 --> 0:21:44.760 to the Jenny that is the front runner, right and 0:21:45.080 --> 0:21:48.840 everybody else is behind? So what's that front runner Jenny? 0:21:49.040 --> 0:21:56.359 Like the one in twenty fifteen, she was beautiful, she 0:21:56.480 --> 0:21:58.879 was in That does not mean you are not beautiful 0:21:59.119 --> 0:22:05.680 all I walked right into that, didn't I. So the 0:22:05.840 --> 0:22:09.320 Jenny that we had, she was strong, she was powerful, 0:22:09.400 --> 0:22:15.280 She was determined. She was the one that just kept pushing. 0:22:16.280 --> 0:22:19.040 She was determined. She phoned the police and she was like, well, 0:22:19.160 --> 0:22:20.840 you know, what do you need? Just let me know 0:22:20.880 --> 0:22:25.640 what you need. I'll do it. You know, she fell 0:22:25.760 --> 0:22:30.680 over and stopped being front runner. Christmas of twenty eighteen, 0:22:31.520 --> 0:22:34.320 we had been promised a large amount of support for 0:22:34.400 --> 0:22:38.040 the trial that was due for February twenty nineteen and 0:22:39.040 --> 0:22:41.800 in the lead up to Christmas, everybody that had promised 0:22:41.840 --> 0:22:44.560 to be there was phoning us and saying sorry, we 0:22:44.640 --> 0:22:49.000 can't make it. And were they witnesses or just supports, 0:22:49.080 --> 0:22:55.000 support workers and support services And it was very difficult 0:22:55.040 --> 0:22:58.119 because we live in Queensland. We were going to be 0:22:58.640 --> 0:23:05.840 tall intents and purposes alone in Sydney dealing with this 0:23:06.200 --> 0:23:09.359 and we had done everything that we could to get support. 0:23:09.560 --> 0:23:12.520 But you know this is something that is a real 0:23:12.720 --> 0:23:18.840 issue for survivors. Is if so. I contacted New South 0:23:18.880 --> 0:23:23.800 Wales Rape Crisis and I said, I'm coming to court 0:23:24.000 --> 0:23:28.560 in New South Wales. I live in Queensland. Now, the 0:23:28.760 --> 0:23:32.720 way that the rape crisis was funded they could only 0:23:32.800 --> 0:23:39.200 provide support to New South Wales residents. I couldn't use 0:23:39.280 --> 0:23:45.040 them because I lived in Queensland. But the Queensland Support Agencies, 0:23:45.400 --> 0:23:48.720 their funding is for abuse that took place in Queensland. 0:23:49.000 --> 0:23:54.760 What we need is an acknowledgment that offenders move, and 0:23:54.880 --> 0:23:58.359 they do it quite deliberately because you have to go 0:23:58.520 --> 0:24:02.160 back to the jurisdiction where it happened if you want justice. 0:24:02.320 --> 0:24:06.960 So if you've lived in fifteen places, you've got to 0:24:07.000 --> 0:24:11.600 go and you're potentially looking at fifteen trials and so 0:24:11.720 --> 0:24:17.680 there's not a consistence support. We need nation wide support 0:24:17.840 --> 0:24:22.080 services that can say you're in Queensland, it happened in Tasmania. 0:24:22.359 --> 0:24:25.240 We will support you, will link you in because you've 0:24:25.320 --> 0:24:27.800 got to go to Tasmania for the trial, will link 0:24:27.880 --> 0:24:31.879 you in with agencies that can help you. Because everybody 0:24:32.040 --> 0:24:36.080 that had said they would help me told me that 0:24:36.160 --> 0:24:42.040 they couldn't Christmas Week and this led to Jenny right, 0:24:42.280 --> 0:24:47.399 front runner Jenny front runner Jenny being retired and because 0:24:47.440 --> 0:24:50.040 she just couldn't deal with it, and that led to 0:24:50.320 --> 0:24:55.760 our most recent front runner, And she introduces herself as 0:24:55.800 --> 0:24:59.520 the entity currently known as Jenny because we make her 0:24:59.640 --> 0:25:02.720 every day. She's a different Jenny every day based on 0:25:02.800 --> 0:25:06.280 the skills that Yeah, right is she? Am? I talking 0:25:06.359 --> 0:25:18.720 to her now? You will be in just two seconds? Really, Hey, 0:25:18.960 --> 0:25:23.400 I am the entity currently known as Jenny. Hello, Jenny, Hi, Kate, 0:25:23.440 --> 0:25:26.200 it's so nice to meet you, you two. You know 0:25:26.280 --> 0:25:32.360 we're all fangirling and fanboying in here when you stepped up. Yes, 0:25:34.480 --> 0:25:40.359 how is that process? Uh? That process was something that 0:25:41.119 --> 0:25:43.560 was done in modern times, but we've done this our 0:25:43.600 --> 0:25:47.160 whole life as children we have a guy called Little Ricky, 0:25:48.000 --> 0:25:51.800 and it's his job to go and select the next 0:25:51.840 --> 0:25:55.040 person to go in a deal with Dad. So when 0:25:55.520 --> 0:25:59.639 our previous Jenny fell over, little Ricky came to me 0:26:00.040 --> 0:26:06.399 and said, can you do it? And my job was 0:26:06.480 --> 0:26:09.639 well and truly over by that stage. So you know, 0:26:10.240 --> 0:26:13.560 there's no need for somebody who puts their fingers over 0:26:13.600 --> 0:26:16.640 their nose like a peg when we're no longer smelling Dad. 0:26:16.800 --> 0:26:19.960 So I didn't need to do that job anymore. So 0:26:20.080 --> 0:26:23.359 I was free. I'm free, Yeah, let's do it. Okay, 0:26:23.520 --> 0:26:27.040 what do I need? But rather than saying I'm Jenny, 0:26:29.600 --> 0:26:33.160 I'm the entity currently known as Jenny. So I get 0:26:33.359 --> 0:26:38.600 built every night. So imagine you're going on a trip, 0:26:38.720 --> 0:26:41.159 right you pack a suitcase and you put into the 0:26:41.240 --> 0:26:44.199 suitcase everything you're going to need for your trip. Right, Well, 0:26:44.280 --> 0:26:46.960 we do that every night, only it's not a trip, 0:26:47.119 --> 0:26:52.040 it's what do we need for tomorrow? So I needed 0:26:52.119 --> 0:26:55.560 people that can come and talk to you. I needed 0:26:55.640 --> 0:27:01.879 people that could trauma watch and beep any of us 0:27:02.400 --> 0:27:05.720 if we got into something that would traumatize a listener, 0:27:06.000 --> 0:27:08.560 because I don't want to do that. So we've got 0:27:08.600 --> 0:27:10.520 the boys who are sitting there, Muscles are sitting there 0:27:10.560 --> 0:27:13.560 with his beat button because well, it'd be nice to 0:27:13.640 --> 0:27:15.920 beep out trauma as opposed to beeping out his swear 0:27:15.960 --> 0:27:24.120 word he expresses himself. Let's say that his favorite word 0:27:24.200 --> 0:27:26.720 begins with F and end in a bomb. Right, So, 0:27:28.040 --> 0:27:29.120 and this is where. 0:27:30.960 --> 0:27:37.080 The anger, Yeah at what happened? Yes to little Jennifer. 0:27:37.440 --> 0:27:39.080 Yes results. 0:27:39.560 --> 0:27:45.360 Yeah, Muscles has a multifaceted job. He runs our democracy. 0:27:45.960 --> 0:27:51.679 He's also our lifted, shifted boy, and he also expresses anger. 0:27:52.359 --> 0:27:55.399 And when we were writing the book with Dr George 0:27:55.440 --> 0:27:58.680 Blairworst George actually said, you know, Muscles is the most 0:27:58.760 --> 0:28:01.119 normal of all of them because he knows he should 0:28:01.160 --> 0:28:03.800 not have been treated that way. And Muscles was like, 0:28:04.560 --> 0:28:09.000 holy bleep, I'm the normal. 0:28:10.000 --> 0:28:12.879 Blow me down that well, because also there is this 0:28:14.240 --> 0:28:18.760 with abuse or trauma or mistreatment or violence of children. 0:28:20.520 --> 0:28:25.639 It's internalized, yes, and it's associated with blame and shame. 0:28:26.520 --> 0:28:30.119 Well, the thing is that no matter who you are, 0:28:30.800 --> 0:28:32.840 the house that you grow up with, the family you 0:28:32.920 --> 0:28:36.000 grow up with, you think that's normal. So if you 0:28:36.200 --> 0:28:39.880 have someone who's an alcoholic, you assume that everybody is 0:28:39.920 --> 0:28:43.800 an alcoholic, or you just see alcohol as part of 0:28:43.920 --> 0:28:46.440 the day to day stuff. We just saw what happened 0:28:46.480 --> 0:28:48.960 to us as part of the day to day stuff. 0:28:50.600 --> 0:28:55.560 So it was very difficult for us when we started 0:28:55.640 --> 0:28:58.560 to say, well, hang on a minute, I'm not sure 0:28:58.640 --> 0:29:04.040 this is what's supposed to happen. And we have such 0:29:04.280 --> 0:29:08.560