1 00:00:10,622 --> 00:00:13,342 Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast. 2 00:00:13,822 --> 00:00:17,182 Speaker 2: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters 3 00:00:17,222 --> 00:00:22,101 Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on. Men tend to really 4 00:00:22,262 --> 00:00:25,461 Speaker 2: like practical jokes. If you think about the stories of 5 00:00:25,542 --> 00:00:27,861 Speaker 2: movie stars who play practical jokes on each other and 6 00:00:27,862 --> 00:00:29,462 Speaker 2: then they'd pressed to us that they'll be like, oh, 7 00:00:29,582 --> 00:00:32,022 Speaker 2: Clooney was such a joker on set. He always did this, 8 00:00:32,182 --> 00:00:40,982 Speaker 2: He always did that. It just makes everyone else look dumb. Hello, 9 00:00:41,142 --> 00:00:43,702 Speaker 2: and welcome to Mama Mia. Out loud. It's what women 10 00:00:43,742 --> 00:00:46,782 Speaker 2: are actually talking about on Wednesday, the second of April. 11 00:00:47,142 --> 00:00:48,502 Speaker 2: My name is Holly Waynwright. 12 00:00:48,742 --> 00:00:51,062 Speaker 1: I'm mea Friedman, and I'm mea Friedman. 13 00:00:51,182 --> 00:00:52,302 Speaker 3: That's no Forril Fool's joke. 14 00:00:53,502 --> 00:00:56,942 Speaker 1: That's funny. I do have something it's not an April 15 00:00:56,982 --> 00:00:59,102 Speaker 1: Fool's joke, which is that, in case you missed it, 16 00:00:59,142 --> 00:00:59,702 Speaker 1: we have merch. 17 00:00:59,862 --> 00:01:01,702 Speaker 3: Out louders, No, now it sounds like an April for 18 00:01:02,062 --> 00:01:02,342 Speaker 3: it's not. 19 00:01:02,502 --> 00:01:05,062 Speaker 1: We finally have merch and it would be very elaborate 20 00:01:05,182 --> 00:01:08,021 Speaker 1: April Fool's date because I'm wearing it now and we're 21 00:01:08,062 --> 00:01:10,462 Speaker 1: all wearing it. Eagle eyed out there might have noticed 22 00:01:10,542 --> 00:01:13,502 Speaker 1: if you saw the socials for Monday show or the 23 00:01:13,542 --> 00:01:14,982 Speaker 1: picture that we put in the out loud. 24 00:01:14,822 --> 00:01:17,742 Speaker 2: Who one day. We were so subtle, weren't we? We 25 00:01:17,742 --> 00:01:19,822 Speaker 2: were so subtle, all standing there in front of all 26 00:01:19,822 --> 00:01:22,182 Speaker 2: the merchants. Out louders in our Facebook group were like, 27 00:01:22,542 --> 00:01:23,782 Speaker 2: I see March and. 28 00:01:23,662 --> 00:01:26,982 Speaker 1: Then we're like, we're not telling you until Wednesday. We're 29 00:01:26,982 --> 00:01:29,902 Speaker 1: so sneaky. We have done a collab with our favorite, 30 00:01:29,982 --> 00:01:33,101 Speaker 1: one of our favorite local lady startup labels, Makou. She's 31 00:01:33,142 --> 00:01:37,982 Speaker 1: designed a limited edition of four T shirts and bags 32 00:01:38,022 --> 00:01:40,182 Speaker 1: and you can order any or all of them now 33 00:01:40,382 --> 00:01:43,301 Speaker 1: at mamama out loud dot com dot au. Just click 34 00:01:43,382 --> 00:01:47,062 Speaker 1: shop to get merch and when it arrives, make sure 35 00:01:47,102 --> 00:01:48,782 Speaker 1: you tag us in photos of you wearing it, so 36 00:01:49,102 --> 00:01:49,542 Speaker 1: I see you. 37 00:01:49,622 --> 00:01:51,582 Speaker 2: Are we telling them about the TYPEO? Is that a 38 00:01:51,622 --> 00:01:53,462 Speaker 2: thing we can tell our Oh yeah, people are so. 39 00:01:53,542 --> 00:01:56,582 Speaker 1: If you order quickly, and if you've got eagle eyes, 40 00:01:57,022 --> 00:01:59,382 Speaker 1: you will spot in one of the T shirts. I 41 00:01:59,422 --> 00:02:02,142 Speaker 1: won't tell you which one. There is a typo that's 42 00:02:02,182 --> 00:02:06,102 Speaker 1: so us So we were like, Holly of course spotted it, 43 00:02:06,782 --> 00:02:13,102 Speaker 1: and I was proper to it. After it was printed 44 00:02:13,382 --> 00:02:16,382 Speaker 1: and we went, oh dear, and then we went, well, 45 00:02:16,822 --> 00:02:19,422 Speaker 1: let's just make a feature of our floor. 46 00:02:19,502 --> 00:02:19,702 Speaker 4: Yep. 47 00:02:19,902 --> 00:02:20,941 Speaker 3: We love to flearn here. 48 00:02:21,262 --> 00:02:23,181 Speaker 1: Yes, and you know if you get one of those, 49 00:02:23,181 --> 00:02:25,702 Speaker 1: because obviously when we print the next edition, we are 50 00:02:25,782 --> 00:02:27,662 Speaker 1: going to change it, but. 51 00:02:27,822 --> 00:02:31,182 Speaker 5: It'll be a collector item in It's true. I went 52 00:02:31,222 --> 00:02:33,142 Speaker 5: to the gym the other day with my out Louder 53 00:02:33,181 --> 00:02:35,822 Speaker 5: merch bag. Is it dicky to wear your own merch. 54 00:02:35,702 --> 00:02:38,662 Speaker 2: No, that's funny because I wore out my Outlouder t 55 00:02:38,822 --> 00:02:41,222 Speaker 2: shirt and when I walked into the office somebody said 56 00:02:41,222 --> 00:02:43,182 Speaker 2: to me, oh, a fan of yourself. 57 00:02:45,702 --> 00:02:48,542 Speaker 1: Like someone has to think of that. 58 00:02:48,502 --> 00:02:53,622 Speaker 2: But yeah, now I feel very self conscious. On today's show, 59 00:02:54,022 --> 00:02:56,502 Speaker 2: there are two types of people, and neither of them 60 00:02:56,542 --> 00:02:59,822 Speaker 2: think practical jokes are funny. We have feedback for eightful 61 00:02:59,862 --> 00:03:05,382 Speaker 2: the first also the stratispheric drama level of sharing custody 62 00:03:05,422 --> 00:03:09,822 Speaker 2: with the world's most powerful unhinged men, and kink are 63 00:03:09,862 --> 00:03:12,662 Speaker 2: having a moment in pop culture, and a confession on 64 00:03:12,742 --> 00:03:19,901 Speaker 2: Gwyneth's lay. This podcast left us with questions. But first, Mia, in. 65 00:03:19,822 --> 00:03:21,942 Speaker 1: Case you missed it, the Beatles are getting back together 66 00:03:22,382 --> 00:03:25,341 Speaker 1: in see that coming movie form, and it's not actually them, 67 00:03:25,622 --> 00:03:27,862 Speaker 1: which is why you probably didn't see it coming. I 68 00:03:27,862 --> 00:03:31,262 Speaker 1: think two of them have died. Director Sam Mend's former 69 00:03:31,342 --> 00:03:34,862 Speaker 1: husband of Kate Winslet, announced yesterday that he's making four 70 00:03:36,342 --> 00:03:37,462 Speaker 1: describe some members. 71 00:03:37,502 --> 00:03:40,022 Speaker 3: That's the most interesting fact I've learned today. I didn't 72 00:03:40,102 --> 00:03:40,702 Speaker 3: know that is. 73 00:03:40,702 --> 00:03:43,902 Speaker 2: An enormously successful and accomplished director, but hey. 74 00:03:43,942 --> 00:03:45,102 Speaker 6: Yeah, it's out loud. 75 00:03:45,142 --> 00:03:48,982 Speaker 1: That's how we wrong. He is making four separate movies, 76 00:03:49,022 --> 00:03:52,502 Speaker 1: one focusing on each of the four band members through 77 00:03:52,542 --> 00:03:54,342 Speaker 1: their point of view, and they'll all be dropping in 78 00:03:54,382 --> 00:03:57,542 Speaker 1: cinemas in April twenty twenty eight in what is being 79 00:03:57,582 --> 00:04:01,101 Speaker 1: called the first bingeable theatrical experience. 80 00:04:01,902 --> 00:04:04,742 Speaker 5: I have I have a question for Holly because she's British, 81 00:04:04,782 --> 00:04:06,262 Speaker 5: so clearly she's the closest to the Beatles. 82 00:04:06,262 --> 00:04:08,382 Speaker 1: Do you want to know who's in it? Who's playing 83 00:04:08,422 --> 00:04:08,902 Speaker 1: the Beatles? 84 00:04:08,902 --> 00:04:10,702 Speaker 3: That's actually pretty it's a dreamcast. 85 00:04:10,822 --> 00:04:14,142 Speaker 1: It is Paul Mescal as Paul McCartney, Paul Mescal from 86 00:04:14,182 --> 00:04:18,582 Speaker 1: Normal People. Harris Dickinson is playing John Lennon. He was 87 00:04:18,622 --> 00:04:19,862 Speaker 1: most recently in Baby Girl. 88 00:04:20,062 --> 00:04:22,821 Speaker 3: I think he is so hot. I can't even that's 89 00:04:22,902 --> 00:04:23,182 Speaker 3: the role. 90 00:04:23,222 --> 00:04:24,902 Speaker 2: Everyone wants. You want to be John? 91 00:04:25,941 --> 00:04:26,741 Speaker 1: Do you want to be Paul? 92 00:04:27,061 --> 00:04:27,741 Speaker 2: You want to be John? 93 00:04:28,262 --> 00:04:28,502 Speaker 5: Why? 94 00:04:28,902 --> 00:04:31,301 Speaker 2: Because well, are you a Paul or are you a John? 95 00:04:31,541 --> 00:04:35,541 Speaker 2: Is one of the world's longest running like poodle wolf situations, 96 00:04:36,301 --> 00:04:39,181 Speaker 2: and you want to be John because's the main character. 97 00:04:39,861 --> 00:04:40,902 Speaker 3: Yeah, he's the main. 98 00:04:40,782 --> 00:04:41,662 Speaker 6: Character of the Beatles. 99 00:04:41,741 --> 00:04:45,702 Speaker 1: Joseph Quinn is George Harrison, I don't know who he is. 100 00:04:47,342 --> 00:04:50,862 Speaker 1: And Barry Kogan is Ringo Star. He had to. 101 00:04:50,821 --> 00:04:54,222 Speaker 2: Be because I didn't realize that each one of these 102 00:04:54,342 --> 00:04:57,582 Speaker 2: movies is told from their perspectives, and no one would 103 00:04:57,582 --> 00:04:59,741 Speaker 2: go and see the Ringo one, no dissing Ringo. But 104 00:04:59,782 --> 00:05:03,142 Speaker 2: he's the least interesting that so until you put Barry 105 00:05:03,222 --> 00:05:05,502 Speaker 2: keg and then everyone goes, oh, yeah, now I need 106 00:05:05,541 --> 00:05:06,661 Speaker 2: to see the Ringo version. 107 00:05:06,782 --> 00:05:09,941 Speaker 5: So if you're counting your pennies for that time in 108 00:05:09,981 --> 00:05:12,582 Speaker 5: a few years, the ones you're going to see number one, 109 00:05:12,582 --> 00:05:14,821 Speaker 5: you're going to see John a couple. 110 00:05:14,621 --> 00:05:15,261 Speaker 1: Of hundred dollars. 111 00:05:16,101 --> 00:05:19,181 Speaker 2: This is actually genius, absolute genius. I'm not happy that 112 00:05:19,262 --> 00:05:22,301 Speaker 2: I have to wait three years. But everybody's talking about 113 00:05:22,381 --> 00:05:24,942 Speaker 2: cinema is dead. Cinema is dead except for the massive 114 00:05:25,061 --> 00:05:28,142 Speaker 2: stunt things, and they tend to be Marvel movies, those 115 00:05:28,222 --> 00:05:30,582 Speaker 2: kind of things. Baby, with the exception of Barbie, which 116 00:05:30,582 --> 00:05:33,141 Speaker 2: obviously is a brilliant movie. A lot of those movies 117 00:05:33,181 --> 00:05:35,661 Speaker 2: don't get a lot of credibility, Like they're not very good. 118 00:05:35,902 --> 00:05:40,981 Speaker 2: I mean, you know, very artistically. What's the word critical, right, Yeah, 119 00:05:41,022 --> 00:05:43,541 Speaker 2: they're seen as a bit cheap, even though they're the 120 00:05:43,621 --> 00:05:46,502 Speaker 2: most expensive things that have ever been made. This is 121 00:05:46,541 --> 00:05:50,181 Speaker 2: a great idea because it marries stunt with simultaneous release 122 00:05:50,222 --> 00:05:52,782 Speaker 2: of four movies, biggest stars in the world, blah blah blah, 123 00:05:52,782 --> 00:05:57,222 Speaker 2: with undoubted credibility. If you've got Sam Mendes directing and 124 00:05:57,301 --> 00:06:00,662 Speaker 2: those actors playing these movies are going to be brilliant. 125 00:06:00,741 --> 00:06:03,582 Speaker 5: Do you think they'll have a few per fore men? 126 00:06:04,621 --> 00:06:08,222 Speaker 5: Because the thing is, if this was if this was 127 00:06:08,222 --> 00:06:10,662 Speaker 5: a Spice Girl, then we'd cut five women. We would 128 00:06:10,702 --> 00:06:13,261 Speaker 5: be holding our breath. Because the feud on the press 129 00:06:13,301 --> 00:06:16,261 Speaker 5: tour is the new like, that's the biggest st. 130 00:06:16,262 --> 00:06:21,741 Speaker 1: John famously clashed, particularly when Yo came into the picture. 131 00:06:22,101 --> 00:06:24,422 Speaker 1: I'm popular opinion. I don't think I'll see any of them. 132 00:06:24,582 --> 00:06:25,902 Speaker 1: I don't like the Beatles very much. 133 00:06:25,981 --> 00:06:29,741 Speaker 2: I will see them all, all of them in like 134 00:06:29,782 --> 00:06:32,022 Speaker 2: a very short period. Imagine the fuss about this. It's 135 00:06:32,061 --> 00:06:33,941 Speaker 2: going to be like set aside a day you're going 136 00:06:34,022 --> 00:06:35,342 Speaker 2: to be like, it's going to be a whole. 137 00:06:35,381 --> 00:06:37,422 Speaker 3: I'll see Paul and John, and I'll decide whether I'll 138 00:06:37,421 --> 00:06:38,022 Speaker 3: see the others. 139 00:06:40,181 --> 00:06:43,141 Speaker 5: Feedback is a gift from both the perspective of a 140 00:06:43,181 --> 00:06:47,501 Speaker 5: giver as well as the recipient. I have feedback for 141 00:06:47,541 --> 00:06:50,782 Speaker 5: April Full's Day, and I'm worried that I'm being a killjoy, 142 00:06:50,861 --> 00:06:52,741 Speaker 5: which is why I'm bringing it to the table today 143 00:06:52,782 --> 00:06:54,261 Speaker 5: to unpack it with my friends. 144 00:06:54,782 --> 00:06:56,981 Speaker 6: Because this did you get tricked yesterday? 145 00:06:56,981 --> 00:06:57,421 Speaker 1: Babe? 146 00:06:58,142 --> 00:07:00,101 Speaker 3: I wouldn't say I got tricked. I'm trying to be 147 00:07:00,101 --> 00:07:00,621 Speaker 3: self aware. 148 00:07:00,662 --> 00:07:02,822 Speaker 5: This is my tenth year in media, and maybe I've 149 00:07:02,861 --> 00:07:06,381 Speaker 5: become jaded, right, but I think I'm done with April 150 00:07:06,381 --> 00:07:11,102 Speaker 5: Full's Day. Yesterday my social media Walter April Fool's Day pranks, 151 00:07:11,222 --> 00:07:15,302 Speaker 5: and I didn't even understand half of them. Brands love 152 00:07:16,182 --> 00:07:19,302 Speaker 5: and April Fool's Day joke, and there were some were 153 00:07:19,342 --> 00:07:22,901 Speaker 5: there many decent ones. Dyson did the airbrow. 154 00:07:23,102 --> 00:07:27,462 Speaker 1: I saw that that was clever. I almost tried to buy. 155 00:07:27,381 --> 00:07:28,461 Speaker 3: See this is a problem. 156 00:07:28,542 --> 00:07:30,502 Speaker 2: Think of how many people did try and buy that. 157 00:07:30,742 --> 00:07:32,222 Speaker 1: It was like a little I don't even know what 158 00:07:32,222 --> 00:07:33,821 Speaker 1: it was, but it was like to dry and fluff 159 00:07:33,862 --> 00:07:35,582 Speaker 1: and shape your eyebrows, and it was like. 160 00:07:35,542 --> 00:07:37,542 Speaker 2: A teeny weeny little hair dry. 161 00:07:37,422 --> 00:07:40,542 Speaker 5: I love a little gadget, and Mac did a clear 162 00:07:40,702 --> 00:07:42,302 Speaker 5: foundation and I was like, may I would buy that 163 00:07:42,342 --> 00:07:42,902 Speaker 5: In an instant. 164 00:07:46,582 --> 00:07:50,422 Speaker 3: Jack sent us chocolate covered Jacks, which that's. 165 00:07:50,582 --> 00:07:52,262 Speaker 2: Clean funny about them. 166 00:07:52,502 --> 00:07:53,702 Speaker 6: They were just delicious. 167 00:07:53,742 --> 00:07:56,742 Speaker 5: They're seriously a fantastic product that now I can't buy, 168 00:07:56,902 --> 00:08:00,062 Speaker 5: so now I'm annoyed. Set Then there was the school 169 00:08:00,062 --> 00:08:03,182 Speaker 5: who played this prank on their students. 170 00:08:03,022 --> 00:08:06,262 Speaker 7: Morning, Year eleven. I hope we are all well this morning. 171 00:08:06,702 --> 00:08:10,341 Speaker 7: I have some really significant news. This new will affect 172 00:08:10,381 --> 00:08:14,942 Speaker 7: you all directly and will impact your HC and graduation dates. 173 00:08:14,982 --> 00:08:19,222 Speaker 7: With this said, a mandatory year thirteen has been added 174 00:08:19,222 --> 00:08:23,582 Speaker 7: to your educational pathway and therefore you will no longer 175 00:08:23,622 --> 00:08:27,102 Speaker 7: be graduating in twenty twenty six. You will now be 176 00:08:27,222 --> 00:08:33,742 Speaker 7: graduating in twenty twenty seven. Thank you for it is 177 00:08:33,782 --> 00:08:39,942 Speaker 7: compulsory that you complete your thirteenth year. Here is one 178 00:08:40,062 --> 00:08:42,662 Speaker 7: other five compiece of information I need to share with you. 179 00:08:43,142 --> 00:08:46,502 Speaker 7: Woollongong High School of the Performing Arts this year was 180 00:08:46,542 --> 00:08:49,982 Speaker 7: selected to be a part of the twenty twenty five 181 00:08:50,262 --> 00:08:51,782 Speaker 7: April Fool's Day Joke. 182 00:08:56,182 --> 00:08:57,982 Speaker 6: Got Up I love. 183 00:08:58,102 --> 00:08:58,942 Speaker 1: I actually love that. 184 00:08:59,102 --> 00:09:01,182 Speaker 3: I like that one schools deserve more fun. 185 00:09:01,302 --> 00:09:02,822 Speaker 5: I think we can all agree. I think that's fun, 186 00:09:02,902 --> 00:09:05,902 Speaker 5: and I'll allow that broadly. The wall to wall pranks, 187 00:09:05,942 --> 00:09:08,342 Speaker 5: I'm not into it. And it got me thinking about 188 00:09:08,382 --> 00:09:12,102 Speaker 5: how some people are prank people. They love a practical joke, 189 00:09:12,342 --> 00:09:14,502 Speaker 5: and then there are people like me who have absolutely 190 00:09:14,542 --> 00:09:15,422 Speaker 5: no patience for it. 191 00:09:15,982 --> 00:09:19,222 Speaker 3: Am I jaded? Or does April Fool's Day grind your 192 00:09:19,262 --> 00:09:19,782 Speaker 3: gears a bit? 193 00:09:20,222 --> 00:09:20,542 Speaker 6: Holly? 194 00:09:21,102 --> 00:09:24,222 Speaker 2: I can't stand them. I'm the same as you, absolutely 195 00:09:24,302 --> 00:09:27,662 Speaker 2: And I think it's because ultimately, there's always a bot 196 00:09:27,702 --> 00:09:30,182 Speaker 2: of the joke in practical jokes, right, And I'm going 197 00:09:30,262 --> 00:09:34,582 Speaker 2: to generalize enormously. Men tend to really like practical jokes. 198 00:09:34,582 --> 00:09:37,502 Speaker 2: If you think about I always think about the stories 199 00:09:37,502 --> 00:09:39,902 Speaker 2: of movie stars who play practical jokes on each other 200 00:09:39,942 --> 00:09:41,582 Speaker 2: and in the press tours that will be like, oh, 201 00:09:41,702 --> 00:09:43,382 Speaker 2: Clooney was such a joker on set. 202 00:09:43,502 --> 00:09:45,022 Speaker 1: He always did this, he always did that. 203 00:09:45,302 --> 00:09:47,742 Speaker 2: It's like lols if you George Clooney, but it just 204 00:09:47,782 --> 00:09:50,622 Speaker 2: makes everyone else look dumb. And I wonder if women 205 00:09:50,782 --> 00:09:54,542 Speaker 2: are kind of used to being belittled a bit in 206 00:09:54,582 --> 00:09:57,502 Speaker 2: a way that maybe men aren't so we're very sensitive 207 00:09:57,542 --> 00:10:01,262 Speaker 2: and I'm told to laugh. It's just a joke. Stop 208 00:10:01,262 --> 00:10:01,782 Speaker 2: taking this off. 209 00:10:01,822 --> 00:10:04,342 Speaker 5: So seriously, you know what, because I think the practical 210 00:10:04,462 --> 00:10:07,422 Speaker 5: joke famously Leonardo DiCaprio and Jonah Hill. There are all 211 00:10:07,422 --> 00:10:09,222 Speaker 5: these videos and they're quite funny the way that they 212 00:10:09,662 --> 00:10:12,302 Speaker 5: kind of paying each other and praying each other. But 213 00:10:12,382 --> 00:10:15,542 Speaker 5: practical jokes are about power, right, So if you're in 214 00:10:15,622 --> 00:10:18,382 Speaker 5: a workplace, you can't pull a practical joke on your boss. 215 00:10:18,382 --> 00:10:18,942 Speaker 3: You know you can't. 216 00:10:19,382 --> 00:10:22,822 Speaker 5: You can too, it's too risky. You can with maybe 217 00:10:22,862 --> 00:10:27,622 Speaker 5: a coworker. And I think that that's it. That it's 218 00:10:27,702 --> 00:10:31,942 Speaker 5: like the butt of the joke is the audience or 219 00:10:31,982 --> 00:10:33,261 Speaker 5: the person who's confused. 220 00:10:33,302 --> 00:10:34,582 Speaker 1: There is always a butt, isn't there. 221 00:10:34,662 --> 00:10:37,902 Speaker 5: There's always a butt, and it's not you. And the 222 00:10:37,942 --> 00:10:40,502 Speaker 5: other thing about April Fool's lie, that's not true. 223 00:10:40,542 --> 00:10:44,262 Speaker 1: So one time at Mum Maya, someone had the idea 224 00:10:44,262 --> 00:10:47,742 Speaker 1: of making an announcement or doing an article about how 225 00:10:48,382 --> 00:10:50,622 Speaker 1: I changed my name from me a freedman to me 226 00:10:50,702 --> 00:10:57,742 Speaker 1: a freed woman because my idea, but we published it. 227 00:10:57,782 --> 00:10:59,462 Speaker 1: So the butt of the joke was on me really 228 00:10:59,582 --> 00:11:01,782 Speaker 1: because it was like, oh maybe that with button the 229 00:11:01,862 --> 00:11:04,342 Speaker 1: joke was on people who believed it anyway, completely backfired 230 00:11:04,382 --> 00:11:08,142 Speaker 1: because six months later people were still saying to me, like, 231 00:11:08,182 --> 00:11:11,582 Speaker 1: my friends, did you really change your name? And I 232 00:11:11,622 --> 00:11:15,182 Speaker 1: was like no, because the problem is unless the payoff, 233 00:11:15,222 --> 00:11:18,142 Speaker 1: like in that video about the Department of Education, and 234 00:11:18,182 --> 00:11:21,062 Speaker 1: in that context, the payoff came immediately, so. 235 00:11:21,062 --> 00:11:22,542 Speaker 6: You saw it all together. 236 00:11:22,782 --> 00:11:25,142 Speaker 1: But even when I was flicking through Instagram last night 237 00:11:25,142 --> 00:11:27,342 Speaker 1: and I saw the dice in one I read the 238 00:11:27,382 --> 00:11:30,062 Speaker 1: caption because I thought, wait, is this and then I 239 00:11:30,102 --> 00:11:32,542 Speaker 1: had to go and look read all the comments to 240 00:11:32,702 --> 00:11:35,702 Speaker 1: check if it was in April Fool's Day joke. So 241 00:11:35,942 --> 00:11:38,422 Speaker 1: if you don't have that payoff straight away, it can 242 00:11:38,462 --> 00:11:39,222 Speaker 1: be a bit confusing. 243 00:11:39,302 --> 00:11:42,742 Speaker 2: I wonder if practical jokes generally are a bit out 244 00:11:42,742 --> 00:11:45,702 Speaker 2: of fashion, right, because I mean those ones are not 245 00:11:45,782 --> 00:11:49,062 Speaker 2: they don't have a visual victim. But if you think 246 00:11:49,102 --> 00:11:52,382 Speaker 2: about the shows that were massive for a while, like 247 00:11:52,542 --> 00:11:57,182 Speaker 2: Punked and Candid Camera, which were all about tricking somebody 248 00:11:57,262 --> 00:11:59,942 Speaker 2: famous or not famous for quite a long period of 249 00:11:59,942 --> 00:12:05,342 Speaker 2: time and then revealing to them, and it was very cringey. 250 00:12:05,502 --> 00:12:08,622 Speaker 2: Like massive celebrities like Justin Timberlake and people like that 251 00:12:09,142 --> 00:12:13,622 Speaker 2: were disposed at their rawst by that because as we 252 00:12:13,702 --> 00:12:16,542 Speaker 2: discovered when we did a little prank this week at work, 253 00:12:16,702 --> 00:12:18,422 Speaker 2: that you will all find out about if you come 254 00:12:18,462 --> 00:12:21,582 Speaker 2: to the live show, you can't fake anything in that 255 00:12:21,622 --> 00:12:27,022 Speaker 2: moment way. And I wonder if now, with social media 256 00:12:27,102 --> 00:12:30,462 Speaker 2: being so prevalent, we say that's made us more authentic, 257 00:12:30,502 --> 00:12:34,702 Speaker 2: but actually it means we curate ourselves very carefully, and 258 00:12:34,902 --> 00:12:39,062 Speaker 2: also we know how easily weaponized any moment of embarrassment 259 00:12:39,142 --> 00:12:41,582 Speaker 2: is so like for a teenager, like a video, a 260 00:12:41,622 --> 00:12:44,502 Speaker 2: quick video of you tripping over something or whatever will 261 00:12:44,502 --> 00:12:47,102 Speaker 2: be sent around the school in a hot minute, and 262 00:12:47,142 --> 00:12:49,302 Speaker 2: you will be a massive butt of a joke that's 263 00:12:49,382 --> 00:12:51,342 Speaker 2: mortifying for you. You know, so in a way that 264 00:12:51,342 --> 00:12:52,582 Speaker 2: that didn't used to be the case. 265 00:12:52,782 --> 00:12:54,942 Speaker 5: I don't think practical jokes are out of fashion. I'm 266 00:12:54,982 --> 00:12:58,382 Speaker 5: thinking about impractical jokers the show with the Inspired Unemployed 267 00:12:58,422 --> 00:13:00,942 Speaker 5: that recently was on Paramount and that had an audience. 268 00:13:00,942 --> 00:13:03,422 Speaker 5: I would say most of them were men est But 269 00:13:03,702 --> 00:13:06,742 Speaker 5: I reckon it's got something to do with the social 270 00:13:06,782 --> 00:13:11,062 Speaker 5: media element because the for fools Day jokes had been 271 00:13:11,062 --> 00:13:13,462 Speaker 5: co opted by brand since about the nineteen twenties, right, 272 00:13:13,822 --> 00:13:16,382 Speaker 5: But when we saw a billboard or when we saw 273 00:13:16,422 --> 00:13:18,942 Speaker 5: an ad for something, there was an innate sense of 274 00:13:18,982 --> 00:13:22,502 Speaker 5: trust and therefore it was a flip to then go oh, 275 00:13:22,542 --> 00:13:24,902 Speaker 5: I've been tricked, and it was a sign of brand 276 00:13:25,062 --> 00:13:28,502 Speaker 5: trust like car brands used to do it, that they 277 00:13:28,542 --> 00:13:31,542 Speaker 5: could be bold enough to on a day trick their audience. 278 00:13:31,822 --> 00:13:35,662 Speaker 5: Now we are always being tricked. I go on to 279 00:13:35,742 --> 00:13:38,022 Speaker 5: my social media and there is a no innate sense 280 00:13:38,022 --> 00:13:41,062 Speaker 5: of trust. I'm already on my guard. I'm already expecting 281 00:13:41,062 --> 00:13:44,622 Speaker 5: to be hoodwinked because of fake news, misinformation out of 282 00:13:44,702 --> 00:13:45,222 Speaker 5: those things. 283 00:13:45,222 --> 00:13:48,782 Speaker 1: But you mentioned that show on Paramount Plus cast your 284 00:13:48,782 --> 00:13:53,662 Speaker 1: mind back when they worked with those Australian feminists who 285 00:13:53,782 --> 00:13:56,622 Speaker 1: lured their audience there to come and watch this panel 286 00:13:56,742 --> 00:13:58,982 Speaker 1: or debate, and then it turned out to be a 287 00:13:59,062 --> 00:14:02,702 Speaker 1: joke and there was massive backlatch against those women and 288 00:14:02,742 --> 00:14:05,702 Speaker 1: the inspired on employed guys because the butt of the 289 00:14:05,822 --> 00:14:09,182 Speaker 1: joke was the audience. Yes, and they found massively betrayed. 290 00:14:09,702 --> 00:14:12,062 Speaker 1: Very sensitive to it because it can be weaponized in 291 00:14:12,102 --> 00:14:15,342 Speaker 1: a way. Your embarrassment can be weaponized in a way 292 00:14:15,382 --> 00:14:17,902 Speaker 1: that it couldn't be back then, right, So as I say, 293 00:14:18,102 --> 00:14:22,142 Speaker 1: your sort of embarrassed reaction to suddenly being revealed that 294 00:14:22,142 --> 00:14:25,942 Speaker 1: you've been tricked, can suddenly travel everywhere. 295 00:14:25,502 --> 00:14:27,542 Speaker 2: In a heartbeat in a way that it couldn't before. 296 00:14:27,582 --> 00:14:30,062 Speaker 2: So I think it's riskier, the stakes are much higher. 297 00:14:30,142 --> 00:14:32,302 Speaker 5: Yeah, and I think too that we feel like we're 298 00:14:32,302 --> 00:14:34,742 Speaker 5: being tricked all the time. We almost feel like we're 299 00:14:34,742 --> 00:14:37,542 Speaker 5: living in an April Fool's Day prank, Like what's happening 300 00:14:37,542 --> 00:14:37,982 Speaker 5: in the US. 301 00:14:38,022 --> 00:14:39,782 Speaker 3: It's like every day feels like an. 302 00:14:39,742 --> 00:14:40,462 Speaker 1: April Foll's Day. 303 00:14:41,502 --> 00:14:43,262 Speaker 3: Mc donaldson. Yeah, all of that. 304 00:14:43,622 --> 00:14:46,302 Speaker 5: You just look at it and then someone makes another 305 00:14:46,382 --> 00:14:48,742 Speaker 5: joke and you're sort of like, can we not trust 306 00:14:48,782 --> 00:14:49,462 Speaker 5: anything anymore? 307 00:14:49,502 --> 00:14:51,422 Speaker 2: Can I imagine what the Trump White House might have 308 00:14:51,422 --> 00:14:53,142 Speaker 2: come up with for April Full's Day? 309 00:14:53,542 --> 00:14:55,782 Speaker 1: Every day is April Full's Day. It's like a MoMA mayor. 310 00:14:55,782 --> 00:14:58,262 Speaker 1: Every day's International Women's Day there every day. 311 00:14:58,942 --> 00:15:00,782 Speaker 2: You know, the strict rules of April Full's Day is 312 00:15:00,822 --> 00:15:03,102 Speaker 2: it only goes to the midday. You're only allowed to 313 00:15:03,102 --> 00:15:03,502 Speaker 2: make joke. 314 00:15:03,782 --> 00:15:04,262 Speaker 1: What is that? 315 00:15:04,382 --> 00:15:06,142 Speaker 2: I don't know, But the strict rules of it are 316 00:15:06,262 --> 00:15:07,302 Speaker 2: is it's a morning thing. 317 00:15:07,382 --> 00:15:10,342 Speaker 5: You know why because by the afternoon we're exp This 318 00:15:10,422 --> 00:15:11,582 Speaker 5: is the thing about human too. 319 00:15:11,662 --> 00:15:11,942 Speaker 2: Prise. 320 00:15:12,142 --> 00:15:14,942 Speaker 5: Humor relies on surprise. So now you get to kind 321 00:15:14,942 --> 00:15:18,142 Speaker 5: of April one. You go look at it and Australian's 322 00:15:18,462 --> 00:15:21,302 Speaker 5: theory Australians hate it more than everyone else because we 323 00:15:21,382 --> 00:15:23,702 Speaker 5: have two days of it because of time zions. 324 00:15:24,062 --> 00:15:24,742 Speaker 2: That's true. 325 00:15:24,862 --> 00:15:26,782 Speaker 5: We have it and we go no no, no, no no, 326 00:15:26,822 --> 00:15:29,902 Speaker 5: and then the US is like, we're releasing in you and. 327 00:15:29,862 --> 00:15:31,982 Speaker 3: We're like, oh, we've been dealing with this brown. 328 00:15:33,702 --> 00:15:35,822 Speaker 5: Practical jokes they used to used to be like a 329 00:15:35,862 --> 00:15:38,742 Speaker 5: real thing of radio right. Yeah, but they always make 330 00:15:38,782 --> 00:15:42,502 Speaker 5: the person look good or they're the butt of the 331 00:15:42,582 --> 00:15:44,862 Speaker 5: joke and im practical jokes. In their defense, they are 332 00:15:44,902 --> 00:15:47,542 Speaker 5: often the butt, So like, what's an example, Well, in 333 00:15:47,622 --> 00:15:50,182 Speaker 5: practical jokes, they're never cruel and they never humiliate people. 334 00:15:50,182 --> 00:15:53,262 Speaker 5: That's not their brand. No, Well, Hamish and Andy would 335 00:15:53,302 --> 00:15:55,622 Speaker 5: call someone one of their most viral videos saying, will 336 00:15:55,622 --> 00:15:56,942 Speaker 5: you be a reference for me? 337 00:15:57,022 --> 00:15:57,902 Speaker 3: I know, I don't know you. 338 00:16:00,302 --> 00:16:00,902 Speaker 5: James speaking? 339 00:16:01,062 --> 00:16:01,382 Speaker 2: OK? 340 00:16:01,622 --> 00:16:01,822 Speaker 3: Mate? 341 00:16:01,822 --> 00:16:05,582 Speaker 4: Sorry, my name's Tim. How are you mate? I wonder 342 00:16:05,582 --> 00:16:07,982 Speaker 4: if you can help me out of a slightly sticky situation. 343 00:16:08,182 --> 00:16:10,822 Speaker 4: I'm just about to go into a job interview at 344 00:16:10,822 --> 00:16:11,942 Speaker 4: an accounting firm. 345 00:16:12,302 --> 00:16:12,822 Speaker 2: I don't know why. 346 00:16:12,902 --> 00:16:14,662 Speaker 4: I Just've written down a random number and I just 347 00:16:14,662 --> 00:16:16,222 Speaker 4: like to call it to see if it's a real thing. 348 00:16:16,302 --> 00:16:18,302 Speaker 4: It's your number. But then it's occurred to me they 349 00:16:18,342 --> 00:16:19,982 Speaker 4: might call it, but I doubt they will. But if 350 00:16:20,022 --> 00:16:22,062 Speaker 4: someone calls you and says, do you know Tim Barnard? 351 00:16:23,182 --> 00:16:23,542 Speaker 7: Can you. 352 00:16:25,942 --> 00:16:27,902 Speaker 4: I'm going for a job at an accounting firm, but 353 00:16:28,022 --> 00:16:30,142 Speaker 4: just say that, I'm just going to put you down 354 00:16:30,142 --> 00:16:31,102 Speaker 4: as a personal reference. 355 00:16:31,662 --> 00:16:33,262 Speaker 1: Yes, over my. 356 00:16:33,302 --> 00:16:35,142 Speaker 5: Back, blah blah blah, Okay, a river bike. 357 00:16:35,542 --> 00:16:36,262 Speaker 7: I've got your covered. 358 00:16:36,382 --> 00:16:36,942 Speaker 1: Is that all right? 359 00:16:38,182 --> 00:16:40,782 Speaker 5: And this guy went to great lengths to be a 360 00:16:40,822 --> 00:16:44,702 Speaker 5: reference for Hamish Nandy and was dubbed the nicest guy right, 361 00:16:45,022 --> 00:16:47,862 Speaker 5: dubbed the nicest guy in Australia. That you kind of go, oh, 362 00:16:47,862 --> 00:16:51,182 Speaker 5: this makes me feel good, Whereas when I see people 363 00:16:51,222 --> 00:16:55,822 Speaker 5: who have been humiliated, I just kind of I remember 364 00:16:55,862 --> 00:16:58,262 Speaker 5: being at school and there was a trick pulled on 365 00:16:58,262 --> 00:16:59,822 Speaker 5: one of our classes, I think for like a muck 366 00:16:59,902 --> 00:17:03,542 Speaker 5: update thing, and we were filmed and they said afterwards 367 00:17:03,542 --> 00:17:03,942 Speaker 5: they were. 368 00:17:03,782 --> 00:17:05,182 Speaker 3: Like, we should have seen your face. 369 00:17:05,182 --> 00:17:07,582 Speaker 5: You should have seen I hated that feeling. I just went, 370 00:17:07,662 --> 00:17:10,102 Speaker 5: I don't like nobody to that joke. 371 00:17:10,262 --> 00:17:11,102 Speaker 2: She so vulnerable. 372 00:17:11,142 --> 00:17:14,502 Speaker 1: The worst one is speaking of vulnerable is when people 373 00:17:14,581 --> 00:17:17,821 Speaker 1: scare you there's a certain type of person who likes 374 00:17:17,861 --> 00:17:20,742 Speaker 1: going to pop out, pop out. But do you also 375 00:17:20,782 --> 00:17:22,901 Speaker 1: remember when people used to come up behind you and 376 00:17:22,942 --> 00:17:25,901 Speaker 1: put their hands over your eyes, And I think it 377 00:17:26,022 --> 00:17:28,981 Speaker 1: took a lot of women getting very distressed by that. 378 00:17:29,821 --> 00:17:33,021 Speaker 1: People don't do that anymore, luckily, because I hate that. 379 00:17:33,101 --> 00:17:35,262 Speaker 1: I just even walk around my house and get startled 380 00:17:35,262 --> 00:17:37,341 Speaker 1: by members of my own family, even with them out 381 00:17:37,422 --> 00:17:38,421 Speaker 1: not trying to scare me. 382 00:17:38,982 --> 00:17:41,821 Speaker 2: While we're on April, a little bit more feedback, since 383 00:17:41,821 --> 00:17:45,061 Speaker 2: the month has only just been a few days ago. 384 00:17:45,182 --> 00:17:48,061 Speaker 2: I signed up for a ten day meditation challenge online. 385 00:17:48,101 --> 00:17:51,421 Speaker 2: I made it to day three, right, and then I 386 00:17:51,502 --> 00:17:54,142 Speaker 2: looked at the date and they went, ah, I'm right 387 00:17:54,222 --> 00:17:57,341 Speaker 2: on time. I'm having a little April moment, like that 388 00:17:57,621 --> 00:17:59,701 Speaker 2: moment of the year where you go, I'm going to 389 00:17:59,742 --> 00:18:02,461 Speaker 2: get everything sorted out because you've started in January. You 390 00:18:02,502 --> 00:18:04,742 Speaker 2: were like, we've got word of the year, We've set things. 391 00:18:04,782 --> 00:18:06,742 Speaker 2: Then you live for three months, everything goes to shit, 392 00:18:06,982 --> 00:18:10,341 Speaker 2: and then you reset your reset and it's a thing. 393 00:18:10,542 --> 00:18:12,821 Speaker 2: So there's a thing called April theory, and it's the 394 00:18:12,861 --> 00:18:15,422 Speaker 2: idea and it's you know, all over TikTok and everything 395 00:18:15,661 --> 00:18:18,182 Speaker 2: that April is actually the start of the new year 396 00:18:18,222 --> 00:18:21,222 Speaker 2: in a way, so it's the season shift for a start, 397 00:18:21,222 --> 00:18:23,702 Speaker 2: whichever hemisphere you're in, it's the season shift from one 398 00:18:23,702 --> 00:18:26,742 Speaker 2: of the main character seasons to one of the side 399 00:18:26,861 --> 00:18:30,622 Speaker 2: character seasons. There's something star shifting, you know. I never 400 00:18:30,702 --> 00:18:33,742 Speaker 2: understand that it's eight aries season. 401 00:18:33,861 --> 00:18:36,982 Speaker 5: Yep, So it's the end of Piscey season, and Piscey 402 00:18:37,101 --> 00:18:39,341 Speaker 5: season is all about purging, so you need to purge 403 00:18:39,381 --> 00:18:41,581 Speaker 5: things that are no longer serving you. And we move 404 00:18:41,742 --> 00:18:46,181 Speaker 5: into April, which is astrologically full of new and exciting thing. 405 00:18:46,341 --> 00:18:48,701 Speaker 2: Yes, so apparently it's a time of lots of enthusiasm, 406 00:18:48,742 --> 00:18:53,302 Speaker 2: new projects, but also breakups and resets. Are you feeling April? 407 00:18:53,302 --> 00:18:53,421 Speaker 5: A you? 408 00:18:53,742 --> 00:18:53,941 Speaker 8: Is it? 409 00:18:53,942 --> 00:18:55,782 Speaker 1: Because do you think you start the beginning of the 410 00:18:55,861 --> 00:19:01,822 Speaker 1: year with that sort of new page optimism? And then yes. 411 00:19:01,782 --> 00:19:03,782 Speaker 2: Then you're like, it's April and I'm still the same 412 00:19:04,061 --> 00:19:05,582 Speaker 2: shitty mess I've always do you. 413 00:19:05,581 --> 00:19:08,021 Speaker 1: Do the same things in April? Is it just a 414 00:19:08,061 --> 00:19:10,982 Speaker 1: repeat of January? Sexually? But three months later? 415 00:19:11,222 --> 00:19:14,341 Speaker 2: For me? I think when I decided to sign up 416 00:19:14,381 --> 00:19:17,542 Speaker 2: for that meditation challenge and failed, I thought back and 417 00:19:17,581 --> 00:19:19,902 Speaker 2: I was like, oh, it was this time last year 418 00:19:19,901 --> 00:19:24,501 Speaker 2: that I started seeing that therapist myself, I gave up. 419 00:19:24,661 --> 00:19:27,942 Speaker 2: I wandered off. I'm very wander offye on those things. 420 00:19:28,302 --> 00:19:31,061 Speaker 2: But it's like, clearly you said all these good intentions 421 00:19:31,061 --> 00:19:33,622 Speaker 2: in January. By April you've kind of gone, oh, same, 422 00:19:33,702 --> 00:19:35,462 Speaker 2: I'm still the same. You know, wherever you go there 423 00:19:35,502 --> 00:19:37,502 Speaker 2: you are that whole thing. And then you're in a 424 00:19:37,502 --> 00:19:39,901 Speaker 2: little crisis about it, so you reach out for something 425 00:19:39,982 --> 00:19:41,661 Speaker 2: to solve it and like try and start again. 426 00:19:42,182 --> 00:19:45,341 Speaker 5: I wonder I have a different theory, which is that January, 427 00:19:45,581 --> 00:19:50,061 Speaker 5: whether it's intentions or word or whatever, I think that 428 00:19:50,141 --> 00:19:52,781 Speaker 5: you do actually make some changes, right, and you might 429 00:19:52,821 --> 00:19:55,662 Speaker 5: make some big changes in that first kind of three 430 00:19:55,702 --> 00:19:58,142 Speaker 5: months of the year, And by April, I think there 431 00:19:58,222 --> 00:20:00,941 Speaker 5: might be a sense of newness or you ending a 432 00:20:00,982 --> 00:20:04,262 Speaker 5: new era. Maybe you're benefiting from some of the things 433 00:20:04,302 --> 00:20:05,302 Speaker 5: that you've more positive. 434 00:20:05,942 --> 00:20:10,141 Speaker 2: Yeah, in a moment, what's it like to be in 435 00:20:10,182 --> 00:20:13,861 Speaker 2: a custody battle with the richest, smartest, most volatile men 436 00:20:14,022 --> 00:20:19,302 Speaker 2: in the world. We're going to tell you celebrities they're 437 00:20:19,341 --> 00:20:22,661 Speaker 2: just like us, except that in the custody battles with 438 00:20:22,702 --> 00:20:26,542 Speaker 2: their exes, they're dealing with things like copyright claims over 439 00:20:26,581 --> 00:20:29,302 Speaker 2: the names of your kids, and your children may be 440 00:20:29,422 --> 00:20:31,581 Speaker 2: turning up in the office of the President of the 441 00:20:31,702 --> 00:20:33,941 Speaker 2: United States when you just thought they'd gone to the 442 00:20:33,982 --> 00:20:36,862 Speaker 2: zoo with their dad. I'm talking, of course, about two 443 00:20:37,141 --> 00:20:41,421 Speaker 2: very high profile divorced dads here, in particular, Kanye West 444 00:20:41,742 --> 00:20:46,181 Speaker 2: and Elon Musk. Now, when I was getting the information 445 00:20:46,262 --> 00:20:49,662 Speaker 2: together for this segment, it's a lot. 446 00:20:50,222 --> 00:20:51,702 Speaker 3: It's actually so distressing. 447 00:20:51,782 --> 00:20:53,782 Speaker 2: It is a lot. And also these two men who 448 00:20:53,782 --> 00:20:55,941 Speaker 2: are very dominant in our culture at the moment for 449 00:20:56,101 --> 00:20:57,621 Speaker 2: very different but sort. 450 00:20:57,422 --> 00:20:59,422 Speaker 1: Of related reasons, related but. 451 00:20:59,422 --> 00:21:03,661 Speaker 2: Also very distressing reasons in lots of ways. Also, being 452 00:21:03,702 --> 00:21:06,181 Speaker 2: in the middle of these sort of parental battles is 453 00:21:06,302 --> 00:21:08,262 Speaker 2: really a lot. So I'm just going to do a 454 00:21:08,341 --> 00:21:10,422 Speaker 2: couple of very top line things about what's been going 455 00:21:10,462 --> 00:21:12,421 Speaker 2: on lately and why you might have seen their names 456 00:21:12,422 --> 00:21:17,181 Speaker 2: around in headlines related to custody. So, Kanye, who is 457 00:21:17,222 --> 00:21:19,142 Speaker 2: in the middle of what appears to be a year's 458 00:21:19,262 --> 00:21:23,262 Speaker 2: long spiral into ever more alarming extremism on many fronts, 459 00:21:23,901 --> 00:21:26,701 Speaker 2: has been very vocal lately about how he'd like to 460 00:21:26,702 --> 00:21:28,901 Speaker 2: spend some more time and have more access to and 461 00:21:28,982 --> 00:21:31,302 Speaker 2: more rights over the names of his four children with 462 00:21:31,381 --> 00:21:33,381 Speaker 2: Kim Kardashian and now he was married to her for 463 00:21:33,422 --> 00:21:36,461 Speaker 2: eight years, officially divorcing in twenty twenty two, and they 464 00:21:36,462 --> 00:21:38,901 Speaker 2: had four kids. As we know, North is the oldest, 465 00:21:38,942 --> 00:21:41,621 Speaker 2: and she's the subject of most of this public back 466 00:21:41,702 --> 00:21:46,302 Speaker 2: and forth because he recently made a track in support 467 00:21:46,341 --> 00:21:49,661 Speaker 2: of Diddy, the infamous rapper and mogul who's in prison 468 00:21:49,821 --> 00:21:52,942 Speaker 2: on claims of sex trafficking and racketeering and many other 469 00:21:53,381 --> 00:21:57,581 Speaker 2: abuse claims, and Kim was furious about it, and then 470 00:21:57,742 --> 00:22:00,421 Speaker 2: Kanye leaked some of the messages between them in relation 471 00:22:00,542 --> 00:22:03,902 Speaker 2: to this, where it was revealed that Kim had trademarked 472 00:22:03,901 --> 00:22:06,581 Speaker 2: North's name and earned the rights to it. So she 473 00:22:06,702 --> 00:22:08,782 Speaker 2: said in one of the leak texts, I asked you 474 00:22:08,821 --> 00:22:10,981 Speaker 2: at the time if I can trademark her name. You 475 00:22:11,061 --> 00:22:14,341 Speaker 2: said yes, when she's eighteen, it goes to her, so stop. 476 00:22:14,901 --> 00:22:17,461 Speaker 2: I sent paperwork over so she wouldn't be in the 477 00:22:17,502 --> 00:22:21,462 Speaker 2: Diddy song to protect her, but he leaked the song anyway. 478 00:22:21,742 --> 00:22:25,061 Speaker 2: Kardashian then requested an emergency hearing with their lawyers and 479 00:22:25,141 --> 00:22:28,381 Speaker 2: a mediator and a judge because she also heard that 480 00:22:28,661 --> 00:22:31,542 Speaker 2: North was going to be present at West's house when 481 00:22:31,581 --> 00:22:35,341 Speaker 2: the Tate brothers, Andrew and Tristan Tate were visiting at 482 00:22:35,381 --> 00:22:38,022 Speaker 2: Kanye's house, and so she sent bodyguards over to get 483 00:22:38,101 --> 00:22:39,101 Speaker 2: North out of there. 484 00:22:39,262 --> 00:22:40,581 Speaker 1: Imagine that the. 485 00:22:40,502 --> 00:22:43,382 Speaker 2: Complexities of co parenting with a man like him evident 486 00:22:43,422 --> 00:22:47,221 Speaker 2: in that he is publicly threatening to destroy her in 487 00:22:47,222 --> 00:22:50,701 Speaker 2: this battle. So he has tweeted that neither of us 488 00:22:50,742 --> 00:22:53,061 Speaker 2: will recover from the public fallout if you go to 489 00:22:53,141 --> 00:22:55,181 Speaker 2: war over this. He said, You're going to have to 490 00:22:55,262 --> 00:22:59,621 Speaker 2: kill me. Meanwhile, over in Elon's world, the apparent father 491 00:22:59,702 --> 00:23:03,861 Speaker 2: of fourteen children is perpetually involved in custody disputes. He 492 00:23:03,901 --> 00:23:07,341 Speaker 2: apparently resolved one with Grimes over their three kids last year, 493 00:23:07,702 --> 00:23:10,741 Speaker 2: but that's been rocked by his distance on using one 494 00:23:10,782 --> 00:23:12,982 Speaker 2: of those kids X as a promotional tool. So we 495 00:23:13,302 --> 00:23:15,022 Speaker 2: talked about this a little bit, turning up at the 496 00:23:15,061 --> 00:23:18,061 Speaker 2: Oval office, taking him to events and wandering off and 497 00:23:18,141 --> 00:23:21,262 Speaker 2: leaving him alone. And Grimes has said she spent a 498 00:23:21,341 --> 00:23:24,022 Speaker 2: year locked in a battle with him, having my Instagram 499 00:23:24,022 --> 00:23:26,221 Speaker 2: posts and modeling used as reasons I shouldn't have my 500 00:23:26,302 --> 00:23:29,022 Speaker 2: kids and fighting and detaching from the love of my 501 00:23:29,141 --> 00:23:31,702 Speaker 2: life because they were actually in a relationship, which isn't 502 00:23:31,702 --> 00:23:34,142 Speaker 2: the case with some of Elon's mothers of his children, 503 00:23:34,621 --> 00:23:36,782 Speaker 2: detaching from the love of my life as he becomes 504 00:23:36,942 --> 00:23:40,661 Speaker 2: unrecognizable to me with a fraction of his resources, so 505 00:23:40,702 --> 00:23:43,381 Speaker 2: she means herself with a fraction of his resources or 506 00:23:43,462 --> 00:23:46,821 Speaker 2: IQ or strategy experience, all the while I didn't see 507 00:23:46,821 --> 00:23:50,422 Speaker 2: one of my babies for five months. Meanwhile, Elon's also 508 00:23:50,661 --> 00:23:52,661 Speaker 2: has been in a dispute with the mother of his 509 00:23:52,742 --> 00:23:54,982 Speaker 2: five children after their divorce in two thousand and eight, 510 00:23:55,022 --> 00:23:57,702 Speaker 2: and this week, the woman who's supposed to have had 511 00:23:57,702 --> 00:24:00,461 Speaker 2: his most recent child, who's five months old, is a 512 00:24:00,462 --> 00:24:03,302 Speaker 2: woman called Ashley Saint Clair. They've been in a public 513 00:24:03,422 --> 00:24:05,462 Speaker 2: back and forth that some of those tweets have now 514 00:24:05,462 --> 00:24:08,581 Speaker 2: been deleted. He denies paternity, even though he says he 515 00:24:08,621 --> 00:24:12,821 Speaker 2: gave lots of money. My god, Yeah, what is going 516 00:24:12,861 --> 00:24:13,621 Speaker 2: on here? 517 00:24:14,061 --> 00:24:17,302 Speaker 5: I was reading through all of these and I've had 518 00:24:17,341 --> 00:24:21,142 Speaker 5: some of Kannye's tweets pop up for me, and they 519 00:24:21,182 --> 00:24:24,901 Speaker 5: are so much worse than you could possibly imagine, from 520 00:24:25,061 --> 00:24:27,701 Speaker 5: racist to sexist to violent, outright violent. 521 00:24:27,821 --> 00:24:28,061 Speaker 1: Yep. 522 00:24:28,661 --> 00:24:31,261 Speaker 5: Look, that's the Kanye of it all. And it can 523 00:24:31,341 --> 00:24:35,262 Speaker 5: feel as though this is about celebrity and ridiculousness, but 524 00:24:35,381 --> 00:24:37,861 Speaker 5: there is some kernels in all of this that I 525 00:24:37,861 --> 00:24:41,181 Speaker 5: actually think would be relatable to some women who have 526 00:24:41,702 --> 00:24:45,381 Speaker 5: left toxic partners. What I keep thinking through all of 527 00:24:45,381 --> 00:24:48,302 Speaker 5: this that isn't being discussed and in a lot of 528 00:24:48,381 --> 00:24:50,782 Speaker 5: the articles and the analysis and the podcast and everything, 529 00:24:50,982 --> 00:24:53,741 Speaker 5: are the kids, Like the kids at the center of 530 00:24:53,782 --> 00:24:58,821 Speaker 5: this Northwest can read Northwest has two ears. Recently, doctor 531 00:24:58,861 --> 00:25:01,581 Speaker 5: Fiel did a podcast where he was saying, you know, 532 00:25:01,621 --> 00:25:04,262 Speaker 5: if Kanye keeps this up and Kim does this, both 533 00:25:04,262 --> 00:25:06,861 Speaker 5: of those parents are going to lose custody and basically 534 00:25:06,901 --> 00:25:09,142 Speaker 5: suggesting that these kids are going to go into foster care. 535 00:25:09,661 --> 00:25:13,502 Speaker 1: False equivalence in that, yes, so outrageous. 536 00:25:12,821 --> 00:25:15,821 Speaker 5: Because people are saying Kim isn't protecting those kids either, 537 00:25:16,262 --> 00:25:20,341 Speaker 5: And to that a woman and everyone knows, at least 538 00:25:20,341 --> 00:25:24,501 Speaker 5: one who has had to keep her mouth shut because 539 00:25:24,542 --> 00:25:28,222 Speaker 5: she knows that her child or children are being used 540 00:25:28,262 --> 00:25:30,142 Speaker 5: as a pawn by her ex partner. 541 00:25:30,422 --> 00:25:32,141 Speaker 1: There are but a weapon. 542 00:25:32,262 --> 00:25:35,262 Speaker 5: A weapon, Yeah, exactly right, And if you do something wrong, 543 00:25:35,262 --> 00:25:38,621 Speaker 5: they will punish either you or the children. And so 544 00:25:38,702 --> 00:25:41,581 Speaker 5: I think that Kim, even the copyright thing. I'm looking 545 00:25:41,581 --> 00:25:43,941 Speaker 5: at this going, Kim is doing everything in her power 546 00:25:43,982 --> 00:25:46,101 Speaker 5: to protect those children and that's why we're not hearing 547 00:25:46,101 --> 00:25:48,821 Speaker 5: from her, because she knows that that's what they need. 548 00:25:48,861 --> 00:25:52,621 Speaker 2: And even the also, she's probably going through an enormous 549 00:25:52,661 --> 00:25:55,662 Speaker 2: amount of legal proceedings at the moment that we don't 550 00:25:55,702 --> 00:25:57,581 Speaker 2: know about and that aren't made public, you know what 551 00:25:57,581 --> 00:26:00,502 Speaker 2: I mean. Like the things that we are learning, the 552 00:26:00,581 --> 00:26:03,381 Speaker 2: drip feeding that we are learning, sounds like she would 553 00:26:03,381 --> 00:26:05,542 Speaker 2: be in a world of pain trying to basically stop 554 00:26:05,542 --> 00:26:06,702 Speaker 2: the kids from seeing their death. 555 00:26:06,782 --> 00:26:07,861 Speaker 3: Yes, because Kanye and. 556 00:26:07,942 --> 00:26:11,222 Speaker 1: We don't know this, Yes, probably we don't know this, 557 00:26:11,821 --> 00:26:15,341 Speaker 1: but it does look that way. But from the outside, 558 00:26:15,341 --> 00:26:18,621 Speaker 1: you kind of go, why are they spending any time 559 00:26:18,661 --> 00:26:21,302 Speaker 1: with him, given how he's been over the last couple 560 00:26:21,302 --> 00:26:24,821 Speaker 1: of years and how he has been with Banka sensory 561 00:26:24,901 --> 00:26:27,222 Speaker 1: and all of that. You know, it's really disturbing. 562 00:26:27,262 --> 00:26:29,901 Speaker 5: But then I think Kim, and this is kind of 563 00:26:29,901 --> 00:26:31,381 Speaker 5: what some of the leaks are saying, she doesn't want 564 00:26:31,381 --> 00:26:34,302 Speaker 5: to agitate him, So I think that women. You know, 565 00:26:34,341 --> 00:26:36,622 Speaker 5: there's been cases like that where you sort of go, 566 00:26:37,302 --> 00:26:39,982 Speaker 5: when the court case is called, or when the DVO 567 00:26:40,222 --> 00:26:42,782 Speaker 5: is called in Australia, that's when it's a really dangerous 568 00:26:42,821 --> 00:26:45,141 Speaker 5: moment for a volatile man and so I have so 569 00:26:45,262 --> 00:26:48,981 Speaker 5: much empathy for particularly Kim Kardashian in that. But the 570 00:26:49,022 --> 00:26:52,181 Speaker 5: other thing Kanye said this week in an interview was 571 00:26:52,262 --> 00:26:55,542 Speaker 5: that those kids weren't wanted. He said he wanted, he 572 00:26:55,581 --> 00:26:58,302 Speaker 5: never wanted to have kids with Kim Kardashian, but that's 573 00:26:58,341 --> 00:27:01,542 Speaker 5: not how it went. Like if they don't read it now, 574 00:27:02,462 --> 00:27:07,141 Speaker 5: the trauma of those poor children or even I'm thinking 575 00:27:07,182 --> 00:27:11,222 Speaker 5: Elon's kid, who there is an argument going on on 576 00:27:11,302 --> 00:27:16,101 Speaker 5: Twitter between both his parents where he's alleged father is 577 00:27:16,222 --> 00:27:20,621 Speaker 5: denying paternity, like these are real human beings who are 578 00:27:20,661 --> 00:27:22,702 Speaker 5: going to have to get a lot of therapy one day. 579 00:27:22,982 --> 00:27:25,542 Speaker 2: Elon wanted to have all these children, right, because he's 580 00:27:25,661 --> 00:27:28,581 Speaker 2: what they call a pro natalist, So he believes. 581 00:27:28,141 --> 00:27:29,822 Speaker 1: That populate the world, Yeah. 582 00:27:29,661 --> 00:27:33,061 Speaker 2: People like him, you know, very smart blah blah blah, 583 00:27:33,061 --> 00:27:36,302 Speaker 2: should be the people who are breeding and that they're 584 00:27:36,302 --> 00:27:39,141 Speaker 2: not breeding enough. Because I think his broad worldview is 585 00:27:39,182 --> 00:27:41,702 Speaker 2: that we know that birth rates are declining, particularly among 586 00:27:41,821 --> 00:27:44,982 Speaker 2: educated people, so he's like, right, more babies will needs 587 00:27:44,982 --> 00:27:47,101 Speaker 2: more little Elons. I don't think that many people agree 588 00:27:47,141 --> 00:27:50,302 Speaker 2: with that point at this point anyway, But he clearly 589 00:27:50,782 --> 00:27:53,981 Speaker 2: doesn't necessarily want to be involved with any of these children, 590 00:27:53,982 --> 00:27:56,782 Speaker 2: and in fact, he doesn't. He has disowned his daughter 591 00:27:57,462 --> 00:28:00,381 Speaker 2: and said that she is dead to him because she 592 00:28:00,542 --> 00:28:04,581 Speaker 2: is transgender, and he says the word mind virus killed her. 593 00:28:05,101 --> 00:28:09,262 Speaker 2: And so why I just don't understand these models of fatherhood. 594 00:28:09,621 --> 00:28:11,621 Speaker 2: This is one of the things I think about. It's like, 595 00:28:12,182 --> 00:28:14,621 Speaker 2: you wanted these all these kids, and you're telling everyone 596 00:28:14,661 --> 00:28:17,542 Speaker 2: to have kids, but then your model of fatherhood seems 597 00:28:17,581 --> 00:28:19,222 Speaker 2: completely anticom. 598 00:28:19,381 --> 00:28:23,262 Speaker 5: And if it's IVF that's been recorded for some of 599 00:28:23,302 --> 00:28:25,542 Speaker 5: the children, that's how he had them. And if you 600 00:28:25,581 --> 00:28:28,821 Speaker 5: want to do this unconventional, not that IVF is unconventional, 601 00:28:28,861 --> 00:28:32,381 Speaker 5: but elon Musk having unconventional relationships with the mothers of 602 00:28:32,422 --> 00:28:35,621 Speaker 5: these children. If you want to do that, shouldn't you 603 00:28:35,702 --> 00:28:38,462 Speaker 5: have some sort of contract set in? So I think 604 00:28:38,902 --> 00:28:41,622 Speaker 5: you're a business guy. Don't you make deals for a living. 605 00:28:41,902 --> 00:28:43,862 Speaker 5: How is it that you now have a five month 606 00:28:43,902 --> 00:28:46,701 Speaker 5: old and you're feuding on Twitter about paternity like I 607 00:28:46,702 --> 00:28:47,942 Speaker 5: would imagine. 608 00:28:47,622 --> 00:28:50,181 Speaker 1: And payment that you've locked that down. Yeah, And there 609 00:28:50,222 --> 00:28:52,542 Speaker 1: was a video of Ashley Saint Clair, who is like 610 00:28:52,542 --> 00:28:57,142 Speaker 1: a MAGA influencer, selling her tesla because she said he's 611 00:28:57,182 --> 00:29:01,822 Speaker 1: cut her child support by sixty percent and she needs 612 00:29:01,822 --> 00:29:05,461 Speaker 1: the money. And then there's another mother of one of 613 00:29:05,462 --> 00:29:08,502 Speaker 1: his children who's saying on Twitter. I think it was Grimes, Actually, 614 00:29:08,542 --> 00:29:11,782 Speaker 1: I need your attention. One of our kids needs medical help. 615 00:29:11,822 --> 00:29:14,221 Speaker 1: IY need money. I mean, it's just but while you 616 00:29:14,302 --> 00:29:17,502 Speaker 1: said about what's the model of fatherhood, it's really just 617 00:29:17,622 --> 00:29:22,222 Speaker 1: seed spreading. Like it's literally just populist seed spreading. It's 618 00:29:22,262 --> 00:29:25,702 Speaker 1: not a father in any way that we would recognize 619 00:29:25,742 --> 00:29:28,142 Speaker 1: a father, except biologically, and that's all he wants. I mean, 620 00:29:28,222 --> 00:29:31,342 Speaker 1: people say that his child called X, one of his 621 00:29:31,422 --> 00:29:33,262 Speaker 1: children with crimes, who he had in the Oval office, 622 00:29:33,542 --> 00:29:36,902 Speaker 1: is his favorite, and he sort of doesn't really care 623 00:29:36,942 --> 00:29:39,782 Speaker 1: about all the others. And then there are claims by 624 00:29:40,062 --> 00:29:43,701 Speaker 1: his daughter that he only wants boys. He insists on 625 00:29:43,702 --> 00:29:46,102 Speaker 1: gender selection for all the children he fathers. 626 00:29:46,182 --> 00:29:50,342 Speaker 5: I mean, it's just interesting to note as well how 627 00:29:50,422 --> 00:29:52,262 Speaker 5: much we're hearing from the men and how little we're 628 00:29:52,262 --> 00:29:54,942 Speaker 5: hearing from the women, which is a to do with power, yeah, 629 00:29:54,982 --> 00:29:56,782 Speaker 5: and b I think to do with trying to protect 630 00:29:56,782 --> 00:29:57,142 Speaker 5: the kids. 631 00:29:57,142 --> 00:29:59,542 Speaker 2: But I think you're right Jesse in that although Kim 632 00:29:59,622 --> 00:30:02,462 Speaker 2: Kardashian is one of the least relatable humans on the planet, 633 00:30:02,902 --> 00:30:06,062 Speaker 2: there are a lot of women who know what it's 634 00:30:06,302 --> 00:30:09,221 Speaker 2: like to be locked in this kind of battle with 635 00:30:09,782 --> 00:30:13,542 Speaker 2: many fewer resources than Kim Kardashian has not access to 636 00:30:13,542 --> 00:30:16,862 Speaker 2: that kind of legal support in any way. A man 637 00:30:16,902 --> 00:30:20,142 Speaker 2: who might have something over them or believes that they do, 638 00:30:20,302 --> 00:30:22,622 Speaker 2: and we'll use it against them like this is actually 639 00:30:22,702 --> 00:30:26,142 Speaker 2: quite a familiar story playing out in a very unusual world. 640 00:30:26,382 --> 00:30:28,661 Speaker 3: But what's even more terrifying is that she does have 641 00:30:28,702 --> 00:30:31,262 Speaker 3: all of those resources and still she can't stop him. 642 00:30:31,462 --> 00:30:33,261 Speaker 2: If this conversation has brought up any thing for you, 643 00:30:33,542 --> 00:30:36,302 Speaker 2: resources for support will be listed in our show notes. 644 00:30:37,982 --> 00:30:41,822 Speaker 1: After the break. We're changing Gears, inspired by a couple 645 00:30:41,862 --> 00:30:44,902 Speaker 1: of scenes in White Lotus and an interview with Gwyneth patro. 646 00:30:45,622 --> 00:30:49,382 Speaker 2: One unlimited out loud access. We drop episodes every Tuesday 647 00:30:49,422 --> 00:30:53,502 Speaker 2: and Thursday exclusively for Mamma Mia subscribers. Follow the link 648 00:30:53,502 --> 00:30:55,261 Speaker 2: at the show notes to get us in your ears 649 00:30:55,542 --> 00:30:58,262 Speaker 2: five days a week, and a huge thank you to 650 00:30:58,462 --> 00:31:00,062 Speaker 2: all our current subscribers. 651 00:31:07,262 --> 00:31:10,342 Speaker 1: Comedian Nikki Glazer, who you may remember, hosted the Golden 652 00:31:10,382 --> 00:31:13,502 Speaker 1: Globes to Rave Reviews earlier this year. She was so good. 653 00:31:13,782 --> 00:31:16,342 Speaker 1: She's done an interview this week with Gwyneth Paltrow for 654 00:31:16,462 --> 00:31:17,742 Speaker 1: Gwinne's Goop podcast. 655 00:31:18,542 --> 00:31:19,941 Speaker 6: When Nikki talks about. 656 00:31:19,702 --> 00:31:22,982 Speaker 1: How during sex she likes her boyfriend to talk about 657 00:31:22,982 --> 00:31:24,421 Speaker 1: the other women that he's been with. 658 00:31:24,582 --> 00:31:27,422 Speaker 6: Here's what she said, And are you really non monogamous? 659 00:31:27,542 --> 00:31:31,222 Speaker 8: No, I wouldn't mind if my boyfriend were to fool 660 00:31:31,262 --> 00:31:32,182 Speaker 8: around with other. 661 00:31:32,142 --> 00:31:34,662 Speaker 6: Do you really think you wouldn't mind? Has he done it? 662 00:31:34,942 --> 00:31:35,382 Speaker 8: Yeah? 663 00:31:35,542 --> 00:31:36,262 Speaker 6: And you didn't mind? 664 00:31:36,342 --> 00:31:40,102 Speaker 8: Like years ago, there were like a couple times. I 665 00:31:40,182 --> 00:31:42,182 Speaker 8: don't mind as long as the girl knows that it's 666 00:31:42,182 --> 00:31:44,222 Speaker 8: not like cause you know, I think girls sometimes when 667 00:31:44,262 --> 00:31:46,582 Speaker 8: they can be convinced like he's gonna leave her for me, 668 00:31:46,622 --> 00:31:48,622 Speaker 8: it's like that's not gonna happen. So just know what 669 00:31:48,702 --> 00:31:51,702 Speaker 8: this is. I think it's definitely the competition thing of like, ooh, 670 00:31:51,982 --> 00:31:53,742 Speaker 8: maybe he will leave me for her, Okay, I gotta 671 00:31:53,742 --> 00:31:55,862 Speaker 8: step it up. Like I kind of like that, But 672 00:31:55,902 --> 00:31:58,982 Speaker 8: I also like, I think he's hot, and I kind 673 00:31:58,982 --> 00:32:01,342 Speaker 8: of am like try this out, like it's like lending 674 00:32:01,462 --> 00:32:04,302 Speaker 8: like my friend, like a hairdresser. 675 00:32:04,422 --> 00:32:06,342 Speaker 6: I like really, I don't know, Like I'm just like 676 00:32:06,782 --> 00:32:09,382 Speaker 6: have a good time and like I seck, like is 677 00:32:09,382 --> 00:32:10,862 Speaker 6: that a sexual fetish? 678 00:32:10,942 --> 00:32:11,102 Speaker 1: Yeah? 679 00:32:11,102 --> 00:32:11,902 Speaker 6: I think it's a fetish. 680 00:32:11,942 --> 00:32:14,302 Speaker 8: It's called hot husband. So there's like a hot wife 681 00:32:14,302 --> 00:32:17,661 Speaker 8: fetish that's way more prolific of like men who want 682 00:32:17,702 --> 00:32:20,062 Speaker 8: their wives to be it's not cuckholding, and they're not 683 00:32:20,102 --> 00:32:22,902 Speaker 8: in the corner like what are you doing, or like, 684 00:32:22,942 --> 00:32:25,022 Speaker 8: they're just kind of like they either hear about it 685 00:32:25,102 --> 00:32:27,582 Speaker 8: or they kind of like orchestrate it. And I don't 686 00:32:27,622 --> 00:32:29,062 Speaker 8: want to be a part of it. I think he 687 00:32:29,102 --> 00:32:31,302 Speaker 8: would like me to be a part of a thing 688 00:32:31,382 --> 00:32:34,582 Speaker 8: with someone else, but I don't really I'd rather just 689 00:32:34,661 --> 00:32:35,502 Speaker 8: hear about it later. 690 00:32:35,862 --> 00:32:38,021 Speaker 1: It's actually not the first time she's talked about it. 691 00:32:38,062 --> 00:32:40,502 Speaker 1: Back in twenty twenty two, she said in another interview, 692 00:32:40,542 --> 00:32:42,421 Speaker 1: I'm a wido and I like my boyfriend to at 693 00:32:42,502 --> 00:32:45,342 Speaker 1: least entertain the idea of being with other women or 694 00:32:45,382 --> 00:32:47,902 Speaker 1: be with them. I think it's about like I want 695 00:32:47,902 --> 00:32:51,062 Speaker 1: things that other people want. So now you know, that's 696 00:32:51,062 --> 00:32:55,582 Speaker 1: called hot husband syndrome. And it's funny that she describes 697 00:32:55,582 --> 00:32:58,982 Speaker 1: it as being a weirdo and she says it's a fetish. 698 00:32:59,542 --> 00:33:02,182 Speaker 1: It's also described as a kink, and kinks are really 699 00:33:02,262 --> 00:33:05,422 Speaker 1: having a moment in White Lotus this season. Creator Mike 700 00:33:05,462 --> 00:33:10,262 Speaker 1: White has been exploring some fairly unconventional kinks, which we 701 00:33:10,342 --> 00:33:13,701 Speaker 1: will go into in our subscriber episode tomorrow. Particularly in 702 00:33:13,742 --> 00:33:15,742 Speaker 1: the last couple of episodes, there's been a lot of 703 00:33:16,142 --> 00:33:20,262 Speaker 1: kinks explored. This week, there was also a pretty out 704 00:33:20,302 --> 00:33:24,941 Speaker 1: there description of one kink that involved someone accidentally seeing 705 00:33:24,982 --> 00:33:27,862 Speaker 1: his parents having sex and wanting to recreate that with 706 00:33:27,942 --> 00:33:30,022 Speaker 1: his girlfriend and another man. 707 00:33:30,542 --> 00:33:34,862 Speaker 5: There's also been the sort of incest storyline, and there's 708 00:33:34,902 --> 00:33:40,742 Speaker 5: also been, of course, Sam Rockwell talking about cours monologue 709 00:33:40,742 --> 00:33:46,542 Speaker 5: where he talked about the most creative kink, desiring something 710 00:33:46,661 --> 00:33:48,142 Speaker 5: so much that you want to be it. 711 00:33:48,422 --> 00:33:51,062 Speaker 1: Yeah, Jesse, do you think it's a good thing that 712 00:33:51,102 --> 00:33:52,982 Speaker 1: people are sharing their kinks publicly? 713 00:33:53,661 --> 00:33:55,542 Speaker 5: Look, I find it fascinating, and I think that the 714 00:33:55,582 --> 00:33:58,822 Speaker 5: way Mike White has done it in The White Lotus 715 00:33:58,942 --> 00:34:03,262 Speaker 5: is very engrossing because the undercurrent to what he is 716 00:34:03,302 --> 00:34:06,262 Speaker 5: saying is that kinks aren't only about sex. I don't 717 00:34:06,262 --> 00:34:08,782 Speaker 5: think that he's doing it to be gratuitous or to 718 00:34:08,822 --> 00:34:13,222 Speaker 5: be a rousing, but to explore power and relationships in 719 00:34:13,302 --> 00:34:17,302 Speaker 5: a fresh way. But I do think that Mike White's job, 720 00:34:17,502 --> 00:34:20,742 Speaker 5: especially this season on The White Lotus, has become harder 721 00:34:21,261 --> 00:34:24,502 Speaker 5: because to present an audience with a kink they haven't 722 00:34:24,542 --> 00:34:26,982 Speaker 5: heard of is near impossible. 723 00:34:27,622 --> 00:34:30,781 Speaker 3: I mean obviously this season. Yeah, Yeah, that's what I mean. 724 00:34:30,942 --> 00:34:34,982 Speaker 5: It's like the proliferation of pornography means that all of 725 00:34:35,022 --> 00:34:38,302 Speaker 5: these things we could never have imagined, or maybe people 726 00:34:38,422 --> 00:34:41,102 Speaker 5: were imagining, but they just didn't have a word for. 727 00:34:41,342 --> 00:34:44,941 Speaker 5: Like the subculture of sex means that you can now 728 00:34:45,062 --> 00:34:47,142 Speaker 5: find certain communities. 729 00:34:47,302 --> 00:34:49,301 Speaker 2: Yeah, and they're in a drop down menu. So it's 730 00:34:49,382 --> 00:34:52,181 Speaker 2: like if you can easily go into a place and 731 00:34:52,261 --> 00:34:55,181 Speaker 2: type in what you're interested in, and then there's a 732 00:34:55,181 --> 00:34:57,542 Speaker 2: whole list of a whole lot of other things. It's 733 00:34:57,622 --> 00:34:59,542 Speaker 2: kind of opening your mind in a way that that 734 00:34:59,622 --> 00:35:00,741 Speaker 2: wasn't really possible before. 735 00:35:00,741 --> 00:35:02,102 Speaker 1: And then you discover what turns. 736 00:35:02,422 --> 00:35:05,542 Speaker 5: And then what happened does, of course, is it normalizes it. 737 00:35:05,741 --> 00:35:08,181 Speaker 5: And once something becomes normalized, it's no longer a kink, 738 00:35:08,462 --> 00:35:11,542 Speaker 5: which is why I think that kinks can become wilder 739 00:35:11,542 --> 00:35:14,301 Speaker 5: and wilder, like this sort of it didn't begin with it, 740 00:35:14,342 --> 00:35:18,062 Speaker 5: but I think it popularized. Kink culture was fifty shades 741 00:35:18,102 --> 00:35:20,821 Speaker 5: of gray, and now we imagine that being remade and 742 00:35:20,862 --> 00:35:24,502 Speaker 5: parts of that are no longer subversive because it's like, oh, 743 00:35:24,582 --> 00:35:28,421 Speaker 5: that's just become mainstream talking about kinks. I always find 744 00:35:28,462 --> 00:35:31,502 Speaker 5: it really funny because podcasts have done this increasingly. I 745 00:35:31,502 --> 00:35:34,301 Speaker 5: think it can be a really good thing. I think 746 00:35:34,302 --> 00:35:37,861 Speaker 5: that probably same sex marriage and a revolution when it 747 00:35:37,902 --> 00:35:41,861 Speaker 5: came to LGBT sexuality means that what sex means and 748 00:35:41,862 --> 00:35:45,981 Speaker 5: what sex acts looks like has widened. But podcasts you'll 749 00:35:45,982 --> 00:35:48,782 Speaker 5: hear people talk about kinks, and I always think kinks 750 00:35:49,382 --> 00:35:52,221 Speaker 5: require a sexually arousing context, and for people who aren't 751 00:35:52,221 --> 00:35:55,742 Speaker 5: sexually aroused by you in this moment, this just sounds 752 00:35:55,781 --> 00:35:56,261 Speaker 5: kind of weird. 753 00:35:56,462 --> 00:35:59,661 Speaker 1: But even on on White Lotus, yeah, it was being described, 754 00:35:59,822 --> 00:36:01,622 Speaker 1: and even the person that was being described to who 755 00:36:01,661 --> 00:36:05,782 Speaker 1: was being invited to participate, was like, no. 756 00:36:05,102 --> 00:36:06,341 Speaker 3: No, yeah, yeah. 757 00:36:06,462 --> 00:36:09,542 Speaker 1: And that's interesting because there's also a thing called kinkshape, 758 00:36:09,822 --> 00:36:12,422 Speaker 1: which is when someone tells you their kink that you 759 00:36:12,462 --> 00:36:15,301 Speaker 1: go ooh, yuck. But there was that app that we 760 00:36:15,342 --> 00:36:21,341 Speaker 1: spoke about on the show where you can put all 761 00:36:21,382 --> 00:36:24,341 Speaker 1: your kinks in and then your partner puts all their 762 00:36:24,422 --> 00:36:26,822 Speaker 1: kinks in and it only shows the ones that match, 763 00:36:27,502 --> 00:36:28,982 Speaker 1: or all the things that you're willing. 764 00:36:28,741 --> 00:36:31,181 Speaker 2: To try, which is the important part, right because the 765 00:36:31,302 --> 00:36:34,382 Speaker 2: unspoken part about this is the sort of mixin creep 766 00:36:34,582 --> 00:36:37,262 Speaker 2: as it were, that can easily tip into more dangerous territory. 767 00:36:37,342 --> 00:36:40,422 Speaker 2: But back for a second to Niki Glazer. I loved 768 00:36:40,502 --> 00:36:41,901 Speaker 2: hearing her talk about that. 769 00:36:42,022 --> 00:36:42,181 Speaker 1: Right. 770 00:36:42,302 --> 00:36:45,262 Speaker 2: That interview is all kinds of strange in lots of ways, 771 00:36:45,302 --> 00:36:48,102 Speaker 2: but that part of it was so interesting. So honest, 772 00:36:48,181 --> 00:36:52,622 Speaker 2: I love hearing women subvert the stereotypes about jealousy and 773 00:36:52,661 --> 00:36:55,462 Speaker 2: all those things. And she went on to explain that 774 00:36:56,142 --> 00:36:57,821 Speaker 2: one of the things she thinks she loves about it 775 00:36:57,862 --> 00:36:59,661 Speaker 2: is that when you've been in a long term relationship, 776 00:36:59,701 --> 00:37:01,342 Speaker 2: and she's been with this guy for lots of years, 777 00:37:01,781 --> 00:37:03,542 Speaker 2: one of the things you miss and you mourn is 778 00:37:03,542 --> 00:37:06,582 Speaker 2: that frizon of first meeting someone and being attracted that 779 00:37:06,661 --> 00:37:08,781 Speaker 2: she describes it as like, oh, is he really put 780 00:37:09,221 --> 00:37:11,181 Speaker 2: my very close to his leg under the table, and 781 00:37:11,181 --> 00:37:13,502 Speaker 2: how exciting that is, and how you'll never have that 782 00:37:13,542 --> 00:37:17,142 Speaker 2: again if you're signing up for vanilla monogamy, that is 783 00:37:17,181 --> 00:37:19,381 Speaker 2: a feeling you will never experience again, and she wants 784 00:37:19,462 --> 00:37:23,502 Speaker 2: to recreate it via him. I found that so interesting. 785 00:37:23,982 --> 00:37:26,741 Speaker 2: But on the other side of it, I had to 786 00:37:26,741 --> 00:37:29,741 Speaker 2: think about our friend Armie Hammer on the Louis Theroux podcast, 787 00:37:29,942 --> 00:37:31,062 Speaker 2: which you guys talked. 788 00:37:30,862 --> 00:37:32,021 Speaker 1: About a couple of weeks ago. 789 00:37:32,781 --> 00:37:35,942 Speaker 2: His broad defense against the abuse allegations against him is 790 00:37:35,982 --> 00:37:40,022 Speaker 2: that this was very consensual kinks like kink dating, almost 791 00:37:40,142 --> 00:37:42,301 Speaker 2: that this was a world he was part of and 792 00:37:42,382 --> 00:37:44,741 Speaker 2: everybody was on the same page. And that may well 793 00:37:44,781 --> 00:37:47,862 Speaker 2: be true, but it also might not be true, which 794 00:37:47,902 --> 00:37:50,781 Speaker 2: is why it's kind of It can be a convenient 795 00:37:50,862 --> 00:37:54,022 Speaker 2: coverall if you are too much in the oh, this 796 00:37:54,142 --> 00:37:56,142 Speaker 2: is just a kink and you're totally into it, it 797 00:37:56,181 --> 00:38:00,382 Speaker 2: can be a convenient coverall for more yea more toxic behaviortion. 798 00:38:00,741 --> 00:38:03,062 Speaker 5: But I reckon that's a good point, because I think 799 00:38:03,102 --> 00:38:07,022 Speaker 5: that dating apps have given way to an explosion in 800 00:38:07,142 --> 00:38:11,742 Speaker 5: kink culture because it is far easier to express something 801 00:38:11,822 --> 00:38:15,542 Speaker 5: you're into over a phone, perhaps with a stranger, than 802 00:38:15,582 --> 00:38:17,781 Speaker 5: it is with a romantic partner looking them in the. 803 00:38:17,741 --> 00:38:19,902 Speaker 2: Eye and worried about feeling judged. 804 00:38:19,942 --> 00:38:22,821 Speaker 5: And yes, I also I was reading that gen Z 805 00:38:23,181 --> 00:38:27,062 Speaker 5: are the kinkiest because of their exposure to pornography. It's 806 00:38:27,062 --> 00:38:30,542 Speaker 5: like their from Yes, there was a great quote from it, 807 00:38:30,622 --> 00:38:34,902 Speaker 5: a gen Z person who said vanilla is the new frigid. 808 00:38:35,422 --> 00:38:36,661 Speaker 3: So if you're someone. 809 00:38:37,902 --> 00:38:39,422 Speaker 1: So what about vanilla shaming? 810 00:38:39,462 --> 00:38:40,181 Speaker 6: That sucks. 811 00:38:41,382 --> 00:38:45,221 Speaker 1: But back to Nicki Glazer and the White Lotus. The 812 00:38:45,261 --> 00:38:47,062 Speaker 1: other thing that they have in common is that there's 813 00:38:47,062 --> 00:38:51,542 Speaker 1: a thing called nemdic desire, which is being turned on 814 00:38:52,622 --> 00:38:59,302 Speaker 1: by someone else wanting the person, and so Mike Whites 815 00:38:59,342 --> 00:39:02,302 Speaker 1: explored this in every single season. So in the first 816 00:39:02,382 --> 00:39:05,902 Speaker 1: season there were the two girlfriends and the one played 817 00:39:05,902 --> 00:39:09,341 Speaker 1: by Sidney Sweeney went and cracked onto the boyfriend of 818 00:39:09,382 --> 00:39:12,181 Speaker 1: her friend, and then the same thing happened between the 819 00:39:12,422 --> 00:39:16,341 Speaker 1: married couples in season two, and now in season three 820 00:39:16,422 --> 00:39:20,062 Speaker 1: it's played out with the three friends and Jacqueline and Valentine, 821 00:39:20,102 --> 00:39:22,701 Speaker 1: and she encourages her friend to go for this other 822 00:39:22,741 --> 00:39:24,582 Speaker 1: guy and then she sleeps with the other guy. And 823 00:39:24,622 --> 00:39:26,422 Speaker 1: that's what Niki Glaze was talking about as well, And 824 00:39:26,462 --> 00:39:29,261 Speaker 1: she says that early on, for the first few years 825 00:39:29,261 --> 00:39:30,942 Speaker 1: in their relationship, because I've been together on and off 826 00:39:30,942 --> 00:39:34,422 Speaker 1: for thirteen years, she would just get him to describe 827 00:39:35,022 --> 00:39:37,861 Speaker 1: having sex with other women. But then she said, he 828 00:39:37,982 --> 00:39:40,942 Speaker 1: ran out of stories to tell me, so then I 829 00:39:40,982 --> 00:39:42,502 Speaker 1: had to say to him, go out and get some 830 00:39:42,542 --> 00:39:45,341 Speaker 1: more stories and bring them back to the cave. She 831 00:39:45,502 --> 00:39:48,701 Speaker 1: was saying, that's her kink, is being turned on by 832 00:39:48,781 --> 00:39:53,942 Speaker 1: other women having the hots for her partner. Well, gosh, 833 00:39:53,942 --> 00:39:55,582 Speaker 1: we've really covered a lot in this show. 834 00:39:56,502 --> 00:39:57,342 Speaker 2: It's all weird. 835 00:39:58,622 --> 00:39:59,861 Speaker 1: And a cup of tea and I lie down. 836 00:39:59,942 --> 00:40:03,102 Speaker 2: I think. Thank you out loud us for being with 837 00:40:03,181 --> 00:40:05,341 Speaker 2: us listening to our show as you always do. We 838 00:40:05,422 --> 00:40:08,462 Speaker 2: love it, we appreciate it. We also appreciate our fabulous 839 00:40:08,502 --> 00:40:11,341 Speaker 2: team for helping us put it to go. Bye t shirt, guys. 840 00:40:11,661 --> 00:40:12,942 Speaker 1: Shirt and you can wear it, wear it to the 841 00:40:12,982 --> 00:40:13,502 Speaker 1: live show. 842 00:40:13,661 --> 00:40:17,622 Speaker 3: And we have some bangers of some subs episodes this week. 843 00:40:17,862 --> 00:40:22,062 Speaker 5: So yesterday's subscriber episode was all about adolescence. We've been 844 00:40:22,502 --> 00:40:26,301 Speaker 5: desperate to put this episode together with all the theories, 845 00:40:26,502 --> 00:40:28,942 Speaker 5: all the tidbits about how it was made, why it 846 00:40:29,022 --> 00:40:31,462 Speaker 5: was shot in one scene, the things you might have 847 00:40:31,622 --> 00:40:34,661 Speaker 5: missed upon watching it, and then the conversation that's evolved, 848 00:40:34,701 --> 00:40:36,422 Speaker 5: some of the criticisms that have emerged. 849 00:40:36,781 --> 00:40:38,142 Speaker 3: We unpack all of that. 850 00:40:38,181 --> 00:40:41,301 Speaker 5: In yesterday's subscriber episode, and then tomorrow watch out because 851 00:40:41,302 --> 00:40:45,661 Speaker 5: our Whiteladus subs is dropping a link as always will 852 00:40:45,661 --> 00:40:46,542 Speaker 5: be in the show notes. 853 00:40:46,982 --> 00:40:48,421 Speaker 3: Bye bye bye. 854 00:40:49,822 --> 00:40:52,981 Speaker 1: Shout out to any mum and Maya subscribers listening if 855 00:40:52,982 --> 00:40:55,582 Speaker 1: you love the show and want to support us as well. 856 00:40:55,781 --> 00:40:57,862 Speaker 1: Subscribing to Mom and Miya is the very. 857 00:40:57,661 --> 00:40:59,622 Speaker 6: Best way to do so. There is a link in 858 00:40:59,661 --> 00:41:00,742 Speaker 6: the episode description