1 00:00:10,614 --> 00:00:15,294 Speaker 1: You're listening to a Muma Mea podcast. Mumma Mea acknowledges 2 00:00:15,334 --> 00:00:18,134 Speaker 1: the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast 3 00:00:18,214 --> 00:00:18,894 Speaker 1: is recorded on. 4 00:00:21,454 --> 00:00:21,654 Speaker 2: Hi. 5 00:00:21,774 --> 00:00:25,054 Speaker 1: I'm Claire Murphy. This is Muma MIA's twice daily news podcast, 6 00:00:25,094 --> 00:00:28,974 Speaker 1: The Quikie, with a tax on synagogues and Jewish neighborhoods 7 00:00:29,014 --> 00:00:32,054 Speaker 1: recently seeming to be escalating, Jody sent us this email. 8 00:00:32,494 --> 00:00:35,814 Speaker 3: I'd love to hear an explanation of the factors behind antisemitism. 9 00:00:36,174 --> 00:00:38,774 Speaker 3: What is the history and why is it an ongoing 10 00:00:38,774 --> 00:00:41,814 Speaker 3: issue in Australia. Is there a demographic pattern and how 11 00:00:41,854 --> 00:00:43,094 Speaker 3: do we compare to the US. 12 00:00:43,814 --> 00:00:46,134 Speaker 1: So today we're going to explain the roots of anti 13 00:00:46,174 --> 00:00:49,454 Speaker 1: Semitism and why it persists and find out why Australia 14 00:00:49,494 --> 00:00:52,094 Speaker 1: has been pulled into hatred io as we navigate how 15 00:00:52,094 --> 00:00:55,054 Speaker 1: the war in Gaza has made that line that much blurrier. 16 00:00:55,494 --> 00:00:57,774 Speaker 1: But first, here's the letters from the Quokie Newsroom, Wednesday, 17 00:00:57,854 --> 00:01:00,814 Speaker 1: January twenty nine. The Queensland Government is under fire for 18 00:01:00,894 --> 00:01:04,094 Speaker 1: becoming the first in Australia to deny miners access to 19 00:01:04,134 --> 00:01:07,614 Speaker 1: puberty blockers. The decision by the Liberal National Government came 20 00:01:07,734 --> 00:01:11,854 Speaker 1: yesterday with the Health Minister Timneys announcing an independent review 21 00:01:11,894 --> 00:01:15,334 Speaker 1: into the evidence for hormone treatments for children with gender dysphoria. 22 00:01:15,654 --> 00:01:19,054 Speaker 1: The announcement came after a report revealed gender affirming hormones 23 00:01:19,054 --> 00:01:21,694 Speaker 1: were being given to children as young as twelve without 24 00:01:21,734 --> 00:01:24,774 Speaker 1: authorized care in the States Far North. The move will 25 00:01:24,774 --> 00:01:27,694 Speaker 1: mean transgender children under the age of eighteen will not 26 00:01:27,734 --> 00:01:30,894 Speaker 1: be able to access hormone treatments through the Queensland public 27 00:01:30,894 --> 00:01:33,814 Speaker 1: health care system if they are a new patient. The 28 00:01:33,894 --> 00:01:36,574 Speaker 1: decision on whether to resume treatments for new patients will 29 00:01:36,614 --> 00:01:39,214 Speaker 1: come after the government considers the outcome of the review, 30 00:01:39,454 --> 00:01:42,614 Speaker 1: which is set to run until twenty twenty six. The 31 00:01:42,734 --> 00:01:45,094 Speaker 1: leader of a group of neo Nazis who marched through 32 00:01:45,134 --> 00:01:48,174 Speaker 1: the Adelaide CBD on Sunday has been reminded in custody 33 00:01:48,294 --> 00:01:51,294 Speaker 1: after refusing to sign his bail agreement. The group of 34 00:01:51,374 --> 00:01:55,214 Speaker 1: National Socialist Network members, a right wing extremist group, all 35 00:01:55,294 --> 00:01:58,454 Speaker 1: faced caught for the first time yesterday, including two men 36 00:01:58,534 --> 00:02:01,534 Speaker 1: have been charged under South Australia's tough new anti Nazi 37 00:02:01,574 --> 00:02:05,214 Speaker 1: laws and thirteen others who face various charges from failing 38 00:02:05,254 --> 00:02:09,094 Speaker 1: to cease loitering, possessing articles of disguise and hindering and 39 00:02:09,134 --> 00:02:12,974 Speaker 1: resistance arrest. The group's leader, Thomas Sule, who's from Victoria, 40 00:02:13,294 --> 00:02:16,734 Speaker 1: will remain behind bars until April after refusing to sign 41 00:02:16,774 --> 00:02:19,694 Speaker 1: the bail agreement, claiming he'd not broken the law, that 42 00:02:19,734 --> 00:02:22,974 Speaker 1: he was peacefully demonstrating and celebrating the national holiday with 43 00:02:23,014 --> 00:02:26,334 Speaker 1: his friends, who he says were not wearing disguises. He 44 00:02:26,374 --> 00:02:30,054 Speaker 1: claims he's the subject of outright political persecution by corrupt 45 00:02:30,094 --> 00:02:34,014 Speaker 1: South Australian police officers. In the US, President Trump has 46 00:02:34,054 --> 00:02:37,654 Speaker 1: signed an executive order directing his new Defense Secretary Pete 47 00:02:37,654 --> 00:02:42,294 Speaker 1: Hegseth to revise the Pentagon's policy on transgender troops. Trump 48 00:02:42,374 --> 00:02:45,774 Speaker 1: also ordered troops who'd left voluntarily or who'd been removed 49 00:02:45,774 --> 00:02:48,774 Speaker 1: from duty over their refusal of the COVID vaccine to 50 00:02:48,854 --> 00:02:52,774 Speaker 1: be reinstated. While over at the Justice Department, employees who 51 00:02:52,814 --> 00:02:55,694 Speaker 1: worked on criminal prosecutions of the president during the Biden 52 00:02:55,734 --> 00:02:59,254 Speaker 1: administration have been fired. Meanwhile, one of the men Trump 53 00:02:59,374 --> 00:03:02,454 Speaker 1: pardoned over his involvement in the January sixth Capitol Building 54 00:03:02,534 --> 00:03:05,974 Speaker 1: riot has been shot dead by police during a traffic stop. 55 00:03:06,254 --> 00:03:09,734 Speaker 1: Matthew Huddle was involved in altercation with the officer which 56 00:03:09,774 --> 00:03:13,294 Speaker 1: led to the officer firing his weapon. The investigation is ongoing. 57 00:03:13,894 --> 00:03:17,094 Speaker 1: Former Australian Idol star Courtney Murphy has admitted there's no 58 00:03:17,254 --> 00:03:19,654 Speaker 1: end in sight for the treatment he's undergoing for late 59 00:03:19,694 --> 00:03:22,614 Speaker 1: stage bow cancer. The forty five year old, who was 60 00:03:22,654 --> 00:03:25,974 Speaker 1: diagnosed in March last year, says he's told his doctors 61 00:03:25,974 --> 00:03:28,054 Speaker 1: to throw everything they have at it and that he's 62 00:03:28,094 --> 00:03:30,494 Speaker 1: willing to do whatever it takes to beat the cancer, 63 00:03:30,854 --> 00:03:33,174 Speaker 1: saying I'm going to keep looking forward to putting out 64 00:03:33,214 --> 00:03:36,614 Speaker 1: the next album. Murphy finished third behind Casey Donovan and 65 00:03:36,654 --> 00:03:39,134 Speaker 1: Anthony Callia in the two thousand and four season of 66 00:03:39,174 --> 00:03:41,974 Speaker 1: the reality show. He's a father of three and was 67 00:03:42,014 --> 00:03:45,054 Speaker 1: performing regularly both as a solo artist and with his 68 00:03:45,134 --> 00:03:48,854 Speaker 1: brothers in their band before his diagnosis. That's what's going 69 00:03:48,854 --> 00:03:51,974 Speaker 1: on around the globe today. Next, what is anti Semitism 70 00:03:52,094 --> 00:03:55,054 Speaker 1: and why is Australia experiencing an increase in attacks on 71 00:03:55,134 --> 00:04:02,174 Speaker 1: Jewish people. Prime Minister Anthony Alberizi held a press conference 72 00:04:02,174 --> 00:04:05,374 Speaker 1: on Monday, saying he was stunned after being shown footage 73 00:04:05,374 --> 00:04:08,214 Speaker 1: of people marching in the streets of Adelaide proudly claiming 74 00:04:08,254 --> 00:04:09,294 Speaker 1: to be neo Nazis. 75 00:04:09,774 --> 00:04:13,614 Speaker 4: Are horrific scenes to have people openly identifying as neo 76 00:04:13,694 --> 00:04:17,974 Speaker 4: Nazis and fascists, white supremacists marching through our street. There 77 00:04:18,014 --> 00:04:22,854 Speaker 4: is no place for this hateful ideology here in Australia 78 00:04:23,014 --> 00:04:24,894 Speaker 4: or indeed anywhere else. 79 00:04:25,414 --> 00:04:28,734 Speaker 1: SA police ended up arresting sixteen people, one of them 80 00:04:28,814 --> 00:04:31,454 Speaker 1: a sixteen year old boy from Victoria, who all marched 81 00:04:31,494 --> 00:04:34,494 Speaker 1: on the National War Memorial in the Adelaide CBD. A 82 00:04:34,534 --> 00:04:36,894 Speaker 1: twenty five year old man from Wa was charged with 83 00:04:36,934 --> 00:04:40,534 Speaker 1: displaying a Nazi symbol. The PM also announced four point 84 00:04:40,534 --> 00:04:43,374 Speaker 1: four million dollars would be invested in the establishment of 85 00:04:43,414 --> 00:04:47,094 Speaker 1: the National Center for Holocaust Education, saying it's important that 86 00:04:47,214 --> 00:04:50,934 Speaker 1: any antisemitism be opposed in all its forms, as he 87 00:04:50,974 --> 00:04:54,214 Speaker 1: marked the eightieth anniversary of the liberation of the Auschwitz 88 00:04:54,254 --> 00:04:57,854 Speaker 1: concentration Camp. Those men, though, are not the first anti 89 00:04:57,894 --> 00:05:02,214 Speaker 1: Semitic moment in Australia. Of Late antisemitism, which is sometimes 90 00:05:02,214 --> 00:05:05,134 Speaker 1: referred to as the longest hatred, has roots that goes 91 00:05:05,174 --> 00:05:09,454 Speaker 1: back more than two thousand years. The earliest documented antisemitism 92 00:05:09,614 --> 00:05:13,214 Speaker 1: merged in pre Christian times. In nineteen CE, the Roman 93 00:05:13,254 --> 00:05:17,294 Speaker 1: emperor Tiberius expelled Jews from Rome, claiming the adoption of 94 00:05:17,374 --> 00:05:20,174 Speaker 1: Judaism by non Jews was a threat to the moral 95 00:05:20,254 --> 00:05:23,414 Speaker 1: and religious structure of the republic. He forced young Jewish 96 00:05:23,454 --> 00:05:25,974 Speaker 1: men into military service and threatened others with a life 97 00:05:25,974 --> 00:05:29,814 Speaker 1: of slavery. With the rise of Christianity and Europe, antisemitism 98 00:05:29,894 --> 00:05:33,374 Speaker 1: took on a more religious character. Early church leaders developed 99 00:05:33,374 --> 00:05:37,534 Speaker 1: doctrines claiming all Jews were responsible for the crucifixion of Christ. 100 00:05:38,014 --> 00:05:42,014 Speaker 1: This theological antisemitism reached its peak during the Middle Ages, 101 00:05:42,214 --> 00:05:46,254 Speaker 1: when Jews became a religious minority on an increasingly Christian continent. 102 00:05:46,854 --> 00:05:50,654 Speaker 1: The Crusades mark a particularly dark period, with the widespread 103 00:05:50,734 --> 00:05:54,334 Speaker 1: persecution of Jewish communities. During the First Crusade in ten 104 00:05:54,414 --> 00:05:58,614 Speaker 1: ninety six, Germans destroyed flourishing Jewish communities along the Rhine 105 00:05:58,654 --> 00:06:01,694 Speaker 1: and Danube, killing more than twelve thousand people in the 106 00:06:01,734 --> 00:06:05,334 Speaker 1: Rhineland cities alone. The medieval period also saw the emergence 107 00:06:05,334 --> 00:06:08,694 Speaker 1: of dangerous myths about Jewish people, including one called the 108 00:06:08,734 --> 00:06:13,014 Speaker 1: Blood Libel, a false accusation that Jews used Christian children's 109 00:06:13,014 --> 00:06:16,414 Speaker 1: blood for ritual purposes. Reflections of this kind of thinking 110 00:06:16,494 --> 00:06:20,254 Speaker 1: can be seen in more modern QAnon conspiracy theories. Throughout 111 00:06:20,294 --> 00:06:24,894 Speaker 1: medieval Europe, Jews faced systematic expulsion from various countries. In 112 00:06:24,934 --> 00:06:28,694 Speaker 1: twelve ninety all Jews around three thousand people were banished 113 00:06:28,694 --> 00:06:30,934 Speaker 1: from England on the orders of King Edward the First. 114 00:06:31,574 --> 00:06:35,014 Speaker 1: In thirteen ninety six, one hundred thousand Jewish people were 115 00:06:35,054 --> 00:06:38,534 Speaker 1: expelled from France, and in fourteen twenty one, authorities in 116 00:06:38,574 --> 00:06:43,934 Speaker 1: Austria initiated mass arrests, forced conversions, executions, and then the 117 00:06:43,934 --> 00:06:47,134 Speaker 1: eventual expulsion of all Jews from the country. There are 118 00:06:47,134 --> 00:06:49,934 Speaker 1: many reasons for this, but it is closely tied to 119 00:06:49,974 --> 00:06:53,574 Speaker 1: the Crusader propaganda and the Jewish community often being involved 120 00:06:53,574 --> 00:06:56,894 Speaker 1: in money lending and other financial services, which led to 121 00:06:56,974 --> 00:07:01,094 Speaker 1: jealousy and bitterness amongst those who lived alongside them. The 122 00:07:01,174 --> 00:07:04,774 Speaker 1: nineteenth century marked a significant shift with the emergence of 123 00:07:04,894 --> 00:07:09,414 Speaker 1: racial anti Semitism. In eighteen seventy nine, German journalist Wilhelm 124 00:07:09,534 --> 00:07:13,774 Speaker 1: Sap popularized the term anti Semitism, promoting the false idea 125 00:07:14,014 --> 00:07:16,974 Speaker 1: that Jewish people pose a racial threat rather than a 126 00:07:17,014 --> 00:07:20,614 Speaker 1: religious one. Now this racial ideology would later fuel the 127 00:07:20,694 --> 00:07:25,494 Speaker 1: Nazi regime's genocidal policies. The manifestation of antisemitism that you 128 00:07:25,534 --> 00:07:28,534 Speaker 1: are probably the most familiar with occurred during the Second 129 00:07:28,534 --> 00:07:31,654 Speaker 1: World War between nineteen thirty three and nineteen forty five, 130 00:07:31,934 --> 00:07:36,294 Speaker 1: where the Nazi regime systematically persecuted and murdered six million 131 00:07:36,334 --> 00:07:40,814 Speaker 1: European Jews and implemented increasingly restrictive anti Jewish laws before 132 00:07:40,854 --> 00:07:46,454 Speaker 1: moving to outright genocide. Antisemitism persisted beyond the Holocaust. Despite 133 00:07:46,534 --> 00:07:51,814 Speaker 1: that incredible tragedy. Modern antisemitic conspiracy theories falsely claimed Jewish 134 00:07:51,814 --> 00:07:56,854 Speaker 1: people control governments, banks, and the media. Then Hamas attacked 135 00:07:56,894 --> 00:08:00,534 Speaker 1: Israel on October seven, twenty twenty three, killing twelve hundred 136 00:08:00,574 --> 00:08:03,654 Speaker 1: Jewish people and taking more than two hundred and fifty hostages. 137 00:08:04,494 --> 00:08:07,774 Speaker 1: Israel responded, and the conflict up until the very recent 138 00:08:07,814 --> 00:08:12,774 Speaker 1: ceasefire agreement, has seen almost the entire Palestinian population displaced, 139 00:08:13,014 --> 00:08:16,734 Speaker 1: more than forty seven thousand people killed, cities flattened, and 140 00:08:16,774 --> 00:08:19,654 Speaker 1: many left near starving as supplies of food, water, and 141 00:08:19,774 --> 00:08:23,414 Speaker 1: medicines were cut off. The conflict sent shock waves around 142 00:08:23,414 --> 00:08:25,894 Speaker 1: the globe, with many saying the response to the October 143 00:08:25,934 --> 00:08:29,894 Speaker 1: seven attack was extremely unbalanced. That while the Hamas attack 144 00:08:30,014 --> 00:08:32,734 Speaker 1: was tragic and Israel had every right to retaliate to 145 00:08:32,734 --> 00:08:35,694 Speaker 1: protect its citizens, the deaths of tens of thousands of 146 00:08:35,694 --> 00:08:39,534 Speaker 1: people and the obliteration of their infrastructure was an overreaction, 147 00:08:40,094 --> 00:08:42,974 Speaker 1: with world leaders like Joe Biden supporting Israel and their 148 00:08:43,014 --> 00:08:46,814 Speaker 1: response despite the mounting death toll and dire conditions Palestinians 149 00:08:46,854 --> 00:08:50,454 Speaker 1: were facing. For some that proved that Jews still hold 150 00:08:50,454 --> 00:08:53,894 Speaker 1: all the power. The sentiments spread even here to Australia, 151 00:08:53,934 --> 00:08:58,294 Speaker 1: where we've experienced an unprecedented surgeon anti Semitic incidents, over 152 00:08:58,374 --> 00:09:02,454 Speaker 1: two thousand reported cases in just twelve months, a staggering 153 00:09:02,534 --> 00:09:06,054 Speaker 1: three hundred and sixteen percent increase compared to the previous year. 154 00:09:06,934 --> 00:09:09,574 Speaker 1: The most recent incidents or a child care facility in 155 00:09:09,694 --> 00:09:13,774 Speaker 1: Sydney's Eastern suburbs fire bombed and defaced with anti Semitic messages. 156 00:09:14,014 --> 00:09:17,214 Speaker 1: The center, located near a Jewish school in Synagogue sustained 157 00:09:17,214 --> 00:09:21,334 Speaker 1: severe damage, though fortunately there were no injuries. In Melbourne 158 00:09:21,374 --> 00:09:25,974 Speaker 1: this past December, masked attackers targeted a synagogue withincendiary devices. 159 00:09:26,254 --> 00:09:29,814 Speaker 1: The Australian Federal Police have classified this as a terrorist attack. 160 00:09:30,654 --> 00:09:33,574 Speaker 1: Vehicles have been set on fire in predominantly Jewish areas, 161 00:09:33,654 --> 00:09:37,014 Speaker 1: Synagogues have been vandalized with red paint and swastikas, and 162 00:09:37,094 --> 00:09:40,694 Speaker 1: Jewish owned businesses have been targeted. In Sydney alone, at 163 00:09:40,774 --> 00:09:43,614 Speaker 1: least six anti Semitic incidents have been reported in the 164 00:09:43,654 --> 00:09:46,734 Speaker 1: past two months. A thirty three year old man was 165 00:09:46,774 --> 00:09:49,454 Speaker 1: recently charged with attempting to burn down a synagogue in 166 00:09:49,454 --> 00:09:52,814 Speaker 1: Newtown in Sydney on January eleven, with his alleged accomplice 167 00:09:52,854 --> 00:09:56,694 Speaker 1: arrested just last week. However, their motive has not been 168 00:09:56,694 --> 00:10:00,134 Speaker 1: made clear. In New South Wales, thirty six individuals have 169 00:10:00,174 --> 00:10:03,734 Speaker 1: been charged with antisemitic related offenses, while seventy arrests have 170 00:10:03,774 --> 00:10:07,854 Speaker 1: been made for similar crimes in Victoria. In a significant development, 171 00:10:07,854 --> 00:10:12,014 Speaker 1: Australian Federal Police Commissioner Rect Kershaw revealed that investigators believe 172 00:10:12,094 --> 00:10:16,054 Speaker 1: some attacks may be orchestrated by foreign actors paying local 173 00:10:16,094 --> 00:10:20,414 Speaker 1: criminals to commit these crimes. Police are investigating potential cryptocurrency 174 00:10:20,414 --> 00:10:24,774 Speaker 1: payments to these perpetrators. With Sydney and Melbourne housing eighty 175 00:10:24,774 --> 00:10:28,214 Speaker 1: five percent of Australia's Jewish population, these cities have become 176 00:10:28,254 --> 00:10:32,814 Speaker 1: the epicenter of these attacks. As investigations continue, authorities are 177 00:10:32,854 --> 00:10:37,254 Speaker 1: particularly concerned about online radicalization and the potential involvement of 178 00:10:37,374 --> 00:10:41,454 Speaker 1: young people in these incidents too. So why has anti 179 00:10:41,494 --> 00:10:44,694 Speaker 1: Semitism spread here? Why are we carrying the same intense 180 00:10:44,734 --> 00:10:47,694 Speaker 1: hatred for the Jewish people? And is it all down 181 00:10:47,694 --> 00:10:50,654 Speaker 1: to the war in Gaza. Dennis Altman is a Vice 182 00:10:50,734 --> 00:10:53,894 Speaker 1: Chancellor's Fellow and Professorial Fellow for the Institute of Human 183 00:10:53,934 --> 00:10:57,974 Speaker 1: Security and Social Change at Latrobe University. Dennis, something I 184 00:10:58,014 --> 00:11:01,054 Speaker 1: think many people are struggling with is how we distinguish 185 00:11:01,134 --> 00:11:06,414 Speaker 1: between anti Semitism and legitimate criticism of Israeli government policy. 186 00:11:07,414 --> 00:11:12,814 Speaker 2: I think that there should be no restrictions on criticism 187 00:11:12,894 --> 00:11:17,494 Speaker 2: of Israel in the sense that Israel is a foreign country. 188 00:11:17,534 --> 00:11:21,294 Speaker 2: We should be in Australia as able to be critical 189 00:11:21,334 --> 00:11:24,614 Speaker 2: of Israel as we are of any other foreign country, 190 00:11:25,134 --> 00:11:29,254 Speaker 2: and to do so is not in any sense anti Semitic. 191 00:11:29,374 --> 00:11:33,454 Speaker 2: I think where it shades into anti semitism is where 192 00:11:33,654 --> 00:11:39,574 Speaker 2: it is assumed that Australian Jews are somehow involved in 193 00:11:40,374 --> 00:11:44,894 Speaker 2: what Israel is doing, and so hostility to Israel becomes 194 00:11:44,974 --> 00:11:48,454 Speaker 2: hostility to Jews. And we see this I think in 195 00:11:48,534 --> 00:11:52,854 Speaker 2: the use of the word Zionist, that somehow anyone who 196 00:11:52,894 --> 00:11:55,774 Speaker 2: is a Jew should be declared a Zionist, whereas in 197 00:11:55,814 --> 00:11:59,054 Speaker 2: fact there are many Jews who would not accept that label, 198 00:11:59,414 --> 00:12:01,454 Speaker 2: and there are many Jews, of course, who've been quite 199 00:12:01,534 --> 00:12:04,294 Speaker 2: prominent in their criticisms of Israel. 200 00:12:05,214 --> 00:12:06,654 Speaker 1: Do you think a lot of these has to do 201 00:12:06,694 --> 00:12:09,214 Speaker 1: with the fact that Israel is a country that is 202 00:12:09,334 --> 00:12:12,454 Speaker 1: very much established on religious lines. I mean, the Star 203 00:12:12,534 --> 00:12:15,014 Speaker 1: of David is their flag. It brought together a lot 204 00:12:15,054 --> 00:12:18,294 Speaker 1: of refugees or from this same religion to come together 205 00:12:18,374 --> 00:12:21,134 Speaker 1: to create what is now the modern day Israel. Do 206 00:12:21,134 --> 00:12:24,974 Speaker 1: you think it's very difficult to separate the politics from 207 00:12:24,974 --> 00:12:25,814 Speaker 1: the religion here. 208 00:12:26,054 --> 00:12:29,014 Speaker 2: There's a great irony in what you say, and that 209 00:12:29,094 --> 00:12:33,894 Speaker 2: we in Australia are a secular, multicultural society. We're very 210 00:12:33,894 --> 00:12:38,134 Speaker 2: clear that to be an Australian does not mean that 211 00:12:38,174 --> 00:12:41,694 Speaker 2: you belong to any particular ethnic background or that you 212 00:12:41,774 --> 00:12:46,014 Speaker 2: have any particular religious affiliation. There is something rather weird, 213 00:12:46,094 --> 00:12:51,694 Speaker 2: I think in the enthusiasm for Israel among Australians, who 214 00:12:51,774 --> 00:12:55,494 Speaker 2: would be horrified by the idea that we should become 215 00:12:55,974 --> 00:13:00,694 Speaker 2: a single ethno religious state. I think there's also the 216 00:13:00,734 --> 00:13:06,774 Speaker 2: reality that Israel, like Australia, is a settler society. Vast 217 00:13:06,854 --> 00:13:10,374 Speaker 2: numbers of the population are people who've come there, often 218 00:13:10,414 --> 00:13:14,574 Speaker 2: as refugees, not only from Europe but also from surrounding 219 00:13:14,614 --> 00:13:18,734 Speaker 2: Arab countries, and I think that that gives Australians a 220 00:13:18,854 --> 00:13:23,134 Speaker 2: sense of identity with Israel, which underlies some of the 221 00:13:23,254 --> 00:13:27,614 Speaker 2: support that we see at the moment coming from sections, 222 00:13:27,614 --> 00:13:29,214 Speaker 2: particularly of the Liberal Party. 223 00:13:29,814 --> 00:13:33,814 Speaker 1: I understand a lot of the anti Semitism that we 224 00:13:33,934 --> 00:13:36,734 Speaker 1: kind of see hitting headlines here in Australia seems to 225 00:13:36,774 --> 00:13:40,254 Speaker 1: come from this idea that it's only far right players 226 00:13:40,334 --> 00:13:42,894 Speaker 1: who are doing this. But there's this idea that there 227 00:13:42,974 --> 00:13:47,414 Speaker 1: is actually antisemitism across the spectrum, from both the left 228 00:13:47,454 --> 00:13:50,574 Speaker 1: and the right, and from radical Islamists as well, that 229 00:13:50,654 --> 00:13:54,574 Speaker 1: antisemitism isn't just one politically aligned branch. 230 00:13:55,454 --> 00:13:58,734 Speaker 2: Sources of antisemitism seem to me to be quite varied. 231 00:13:58,974 --> 00:14:02,214 Speaker 2: I'm sure we have in Australia groups of people who 232 00:14:02,414 --> 00:14:06,894 Speaker 2: come out of old religious beliefs that are hostile to Jews. 233 00:14:07,294 --> 00:14:10,614 Speaker 2: We have, as you suggest, luckily all but certainly a 234 00:14:10,654 --> 00:14:14,614 Speaker 2: growing small right movement, and then we have people whose 235 00:14:14,654 --> 00:14:21,574 Speaker 2: support for Palestinians means that they are unable to maintain 236 00:14:21,654 --> 00:14:26,774 Speaker 2: that distinction between criticism of Israel and hostility to Jews. 237 00:14:26,974 --> 00:14:30,134 Speaker 2: And sadly we've seen that in a couple of Muslim 238 00:14:30,174 --> 00:14:34,174 Speaker 2: clerics particularly in Sydney, who said things that are undoubtedly 239 00:14:34,254 --> 00:14:37,014 Speaker 2: anti Semitic. And I think that's part of the problem, 240 00:14:37,134 --> 00:14:40,774 Speaker 2: that we're not dealing with something that comes from only 241 00:14:40,854 --> 00:14:45,214 Speaker 2: one section, We're dealing with something that has multiple roots. Oddly, 242 00:14:45,454 --> 00:14:48,974 Speaker 2: some of the strongest supporters of Israel, particularly in the 243 00:14:49,094 --> 00:14:54,214 Speaker 2: United States, are quite antisemitic. Donald Trump, for example, has 244 00:14:54,534 --> 00:14:59,254 Speaker 2: ties to people who are overt the anti Semitic, while 245 00:14:59,254 --> 00:15:02,734 Speaker 2: at the same time boasting of his support and closeness 246 00:15:02,814 --> 00:15:03,974 Speaker 2: to the Israeli government. 247 00:15:04,494 --> 00:15:08,054 Speaker 1: Has antisemitism? Has it been rising in Australia with the 248 00:15:08,094 --> 00:15:11,694 Speaker 1: October seven attacks really pushing things nuclear. 249 00:15:12,134 --> 00:15:18,214 Speaker 2: There were signs of a neo Nazi movement emerging in Australia, 250 00:15:18,814 --> 00:15:25,134 Speaker 2: probably connected with the impact of the COVID lockdowns and 251 00:15:25,174 --> 00:15:31,534 Speaker 2: with international influences because we've seen similar developments, particularly in 252 00:15:31,574 --> 00:15:37,694 Speaker 2: Europe that's certainly been hastened by the Gaza conflict. That's 253 00:15:37,694 --> 00:15:40,734 Speaker 2: where it becomes so difficult to work out exactly who 254 00:15:40,814 --> 00:15:45,814 Speaker 2: is doing what because the far right anti Semites, for 255 00:15:45,894 --> 00:15:50,574 Speaker 2: people who march around in black hoods and use Nazi language, 256 00:15:51,014 --> 00:15:55,414 Speaker 2: probably support Israel because their hatred of Muslims is even 257 00:15:55,494 --> 00:15:58,414 Speaker 2: greater than their hatred of Jews. On the other hand, 258 00:15:58,614 --> 00:16:01,494 Speaker 2: there is no doubt that some and I think a 259 00:16:01,614 --> 00:16:06,014 Speaker 2: very small part of the Palestinian movement don't keep the 260 00:16:06,014 --> 00:16:11,574 Speaker 2: lines between antisemitism and opposition to Israel clear, as you say, 261 00:16:11,614 --> 00:16:13,974 Speaker 2: on the far left and the far right. We can 262 00:16:14,014 --> 00:16:18,414 Speaker 2: see signs of Antisemetism when there are the sorts of 263 00:16:18,454 --> 00:16:22,254 Speaker 2: instances such as the burning of synagogues or the attempted 264 00:16:22,374 --> 00:16:25,614 Speaker 2: arsen of someone's home in Sydney. I don't think we 265 00:16:25,654 --> 00:16:29,294 Speaker 2: at this stage have the information to know exactly who 266 00:16:29,374 --> 00:16:34,574 Speaker 2: is responsible for the most overt examples of Antisemetism we've 267 00:16:34,614 --> 00:16:35,894 Speaker 2: seen over the last year. 268 00:16:36,254 --> 00:16:40,574 Speaker 1: Do you feel like the war against Tamas in Gaza 269 00:16:40,734 --> 00:16:44,054 Speaker 1: has upheld a certain stereotype of who Jewish people are, 270 00:16:44,094 --> 00:16:47,494 Speaker 1: a very damaging stereotype that's been held by many communities 271 00:16:47,534 --> 00:16:50,174 Speaker 1: over the years, that they are in fact all powerful 272 00:16:50,214 --> 00:16:53,254 Speaker 1: and they're the ones working behind the scenes and pulling strings. 273 00:16:53,534 --> 00:16:57,254 Speaker 1: It felt like the response to the October seven attack 274 00:16:57,334 --> 00:17:02,014 Speaker 1: has been vastly more than what that attack actually impacted 275 00:17:02,134 --> 00:17:05,214 Speaker 1: Jewish people, between tens of thousands of people in an 276 00:17:05,254 --> 00:17:08,534 Speaker 1: almost entire country essentially wiped out. Does that uphold that 277 00:17:08,654 --> 00:17:10,534 Speaker 1: damaging stereotip for Jewish people. 278 00:17:10,774 --> 00:17:15,654 Speaker 2: I think it does. Where the stereotype comes through is 279 00:17:16,614 --> 00:17:20,654 Speaker 2: the extent to which parts of the media, particularly the 280 00:17:20,774 --> 00:17:25,894 Speaker 2: Murdoch Press and the official opposition, namely the Liberal National parties, 281 00:17:26,294 --> 00:17:29,774 Speaker 2: have thrown their weight behind Israel in a way that 282 00:17:29,894 --> 00:17:33,414 Speaker 2: is quite extraordinary. And then I think does lead people 283 00:17:33,454 --> 00:17:37,334 Speaker 2: to ask, well, is this because Jews have such influence, 284 00:17:37,374 --> 00:17:40,734 Speaker 2: They're so powerful, they control the media. I mean, the 285 00:17:40,774 --> 00:17:43,934 Speaker 2: irony is there's the Murdoch family and the people who 286 00:17:43,974 --> 00:17:47,894 Speaker 2: control the Murdoch Press are not Jews. The number of 287 00:17:47,974 --> 00:17:52,854 Speaker 2: Jews in the Liberal Party are very, very few. But 288 00:17:53,054 --> 00:17:56,414 Speaker 2: I can see why people would be attracted to what 289 00:17:56,654 --> 00:18:00,774 Speaker 2: is one of the oldest tropes of Western anti Semitism, 290 00:18:01,254 --> 00:18:05,054 Speaker 2: namely the belief the Jews are powerful, their reach, they 291 00:18:05,094 --> 00:18:10,574 Speaker 2: work behind the scenes. Ironically, sometimes they're also allegedyd communism, 292 00:18:10,934 --> 00:18:14,654 Speaker 2: so that Jews are held responsible for simultaneously the power 293 00:18:14,694 --> 00:18:17,174 Speaker 2: of capitalism and the power of communism. 294 00:18:17,654 --> 00:18:21,894 Speaker 1: Do you think this ceasefire that's currently fragilely being held 295 00:18:21,894 --> 00:18:25,334 Speaker 1: together between Hamas and Israel will change anything about the sentiment, 296 00:18:25,454 --> 00:18:28,414 Speaker 1: especially with these attacks I've been seeing happen here in Australia. 297 00:18:29,134 --> 00:18:31,334 Speaker 2: I think it'll have very little impact. I mean, look, 298 00:18:31,334 --> 00:18:35,574 Speaker 2: the ceasefire is welcome in the sense that anything where 299 00:18:36,054 --> 00:18:39,054 Speaker 2: people are not being killed is obviously a good thing. 300 00:18:39,454 --> 00:18:43,134 Speaker 2: But the cease fire itself does nothing to resolve the 301 00:18:43,254 --> 00:18:47,334 Speaker 2: larger problem, which is that there is no recognition by 302 00:18:47,454 --> 00:18:50,894 Speaker 2: Israel of the rights of the Palestinians. There is no 303 00:18:51,534 --> 00:18:56,014 Speaker 2: end in sight to resolving this conflict, and the sort 304 00:18:56,014 --> 00:18:59,734 Speaker 2: of anti Semitism we're talking about in Australia might have 305 00:18:59,854 --> 00:19:04,454 Speaker 2: taken advantage of the war in Gaza, but I think 306 00:19:04,454 --> 00:19:07,014 Speaker 2: it's taken on a life of its own that's not 307 00:19:07,054 --> 00:19:10,974 Speaker 2: going to be altered very much by what happens in 308 00:19:11,014 --> 00:19:12,934 Speaker 2: the next few months in the Middle East. 309 00:19:14,094 --> 00:19:17,574 Speaker 1: The Australian Jewish community are reporting profound impacts on their 310 00:19:17,654 --> 00:19:21,174 Speaker 1: daily life. Jewish students have been advised against wearing school 311 00:19:21,214 --> 00:19:24,934 Speaker 1: uniforms on public transport, and community members have faced increased 312 00:19:25,054 --> 00:19:29,734 Speaker 1: verbal abuse and intimidation. This surge and antisemitism represents not 313 00:19:30,014 --> 00:19:32,894 Speaker 1: just an attack on the Jewish community, but a challenge 314 00:19:32,934 --> 00:19:37,494 Speaker 1: to Australia's multicultural values and social harmony. Lem Zacharia, a 315 00:19:37,534 --> 00:19:39,454 Speaker 1: Palestinian woman who used to work with us here at 316 00:19:39,494 --> 00:19:42,334 Speaker 1: Mamma Mia, pointed out on Instagram after the recent fire 317 00:19:42,334 --> 00:19:45,014 Speaker 1: bombing of the childcare center, that you need to make 318 00:19:45,054 --> 00:19:48,214 Speaker 1: clear distinctions about who the bad guys are in this fight. 319 00:19:48,814 --> 00:19:51,734 Speaker 5: It can be pro Palestinian. You can feel the injustice, 320 00:19:51,774 --> 00:19:55,174 Speaker 5: you can feel the dehumanization. But haven't we learned that 321 00:19:55,294 --> 00:19:59,094 Speaker 5: violence and bigotry will only breed more violence and bigotry. 322 00:19:59,374 --> 00:20:03,214 Speaker 5: There's a difference between Jewish people and Zionis ideology. There's 323 00:20:03,214 --> 00:20:05,894 Speaker 5: a difference between the inhabitants of a place and what 324 00:20:05,974 --> 00:20:09,934 Speaker 5: their government is doing. Who can be Palestinian and you 325 00:20:10,054 --> 00:20:12,494 Speaker 5: can be for this pause, and you can grow up 326 00:20:12,774 --> 00:20:15,534 Speaker 5: and know that your grandparents have suffered with the knack 327 00:20:15,534 --> 00:20:18,814 Speaker 5: about in nineteen forty eight, but still see that Jewish 328 00:20:18,814 --> 00:20:20,494 Speaker 5: people have immense trauma. 329 00:20:21,494 --> 00:20:23,294 Speaker 1: Thanks for taking the time to feed your mind with 330 00:20:23,334 --> 00:20:26,014 Speaker 1: us today. The quickie is produced by me Claire Murphy 331 00:20:26,054 --> 00:20:29,414 Speaker 1: and our executive producer Taylor Stroano, with audio production by 332 00:20:29,494 --> 00:20:29,974 Speaker 1: Lou Hill.