WEBVTT - The Text You Need To Stop Sending

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Parenting out Loud, the podcast for parents who

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<v Speaker 1>don't always listen to parenting podcasts. We like to take

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<v Speaker 1>a look at the news and the trends and the

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<v Speaker 1>culture and kind of what parents are thinking about. I'm

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<v Speaker 1>Monique Bowley.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm Amelia Lester, and I'm Stacy Hicks. And coming up

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<v Speaker 2>on today's show, an Ozzie Kid has just released a

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<v Speaker 2>viral banger and you're not going.

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<v Speaker 1>To be able to get it out of your head.

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<v Speaker 3>It's the parenting article of the week. A Wall Street

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<v Speaker 3>Journal article on the rise of something called CEO parenting

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<v Speaker 3>has triggered a debate on what you miss when you

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<v Speaker 3>outsource your kids.

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<v Speaker 1>And the kids party ritual that we need to abolish.

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<v Speaker 2>But first, hot off the presses, my friends, Ashley Tisdale

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<v Speaker 2>has brought up the mum group drama yet again, and

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<v Speaker 2>long may she do that.

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<v Speaker 3>It is the gift that keeps on.

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<v Speaker 1>It really is, it really is.

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<v Speaker 2>We're going on seven months now of this story and

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not sick of it yet. So just a little

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<v Speaker 2>mini recap if anyone has missed any of this drama.

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<v Speaker 2>This all started on January one, New Year's Day. Ashley

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<v Speaker 2>Tisdale puts out an essay with the cut titled breaking

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<v Speaker 2>Up with My Toxic Mum Group. I thought I had

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<v Speaker 2>found my village. Instead, I was back in high school.

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<v Speaker 2>And this was significant at the time because Ashley Tisdale

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<v Speaker 2>always posted photos with the Disney Star Holy Trinity, which

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<v Speaker 2>was Hillary Duff and Mandy Moore, so all of them

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<v Speaker 2>from Disney shows, all of them in a mum group.

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<v Speaker 2>Meghan Trainer was also there, but seems largely unproblematic and

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<v Speaker 2>uninvolved in this. I think she's just like off in

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<v Speaker 2>the corner having a nice time. Then Hillary Duff's husband

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<v Speaker 2>retaliated on her behalf mimicking the pose she was doing

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<v Speaker 2>in the shoot for this story and saying calling her

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<v Speaker 2>the most self obsessed, tone deaf person on earth, which

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<v Speaker 2>you know is not backwards and coming forwards.

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<v Speaker 3>Her husband goals, yes, he really is.

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<v Speaker 1>He was like her ultimate defender.

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<v Speaker 2>Mandy Moore brought it back up a few months ago,

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<v Speaker 2>saying she was really disappointed. She just couldn't help herself

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<v Speaker 2>by jumping in there. And now Ashley Tisdale is executive

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<v Speaker 2>producing what's being described as a half hour dark comedy

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<v Speaker 2>for Netflix called Toxic marb this.

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<v Speaker 3>Is so selous.

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<v Speaker 1>She sold the drama. She held it to the drama.

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<v Speaker 2>She is making lemons out of this lemonade, lemonades out

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<v Speaker 2>of this mom group drama, and it's so funny. Deadlines

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<v Speaker 2>reporting it's an original idea informed by Ashley's life as

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<v Speaker 2>a mom of two young children.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, he gets to control the narrative now, right, Whenever

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<v Speaker 1>she puts in this show, everyone's going to be like, well,

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<v Speaker 1>that must have been how it went down. I do

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<v Speaker 1>feel kind of like I feel kind of bad for

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<v Speaker 1>the others that are involved here. It seems kind of

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<v Speaker 1>one side. Yeah, completely agree.

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<v Speaker 2>No word yet on when it's coming out, but I

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<v Speaker 2>am already sat with my popcorn. I'm so ready to

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<v Speaker 2>watch this, whether it's true or not.

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<v Speaker 1>Guys, I know we have serious shit to talk about today,

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<v Speaker 1>but actually all I want to talk about is Eastern

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<v Speaker 1>Rosella's Eastern Rosella's Look at the Beautiful Colors.

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<v Speaker 3>Say showed this to us earlier this week. She was

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<v Speaker 3>first on the bandwagon, I want to say.

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<v Speaker 1>I was.

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<v Speaker 2>The second I saw this, I thought of you too,

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<v Speaker 2>and I was like, I need to send this to

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<v Speaker 2>them now. They need to hear this. It has to

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<v Speaker 2>be in the show somehow.

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<v Speaker 1>If that sentence means absolutely nothing to you, Stacey, can

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<v Speaker 1>you give the quick explainer? And do we have the music?

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, we've got the music. We've got a little sampul

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<v Speaker 2>for you here.

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<v Speaker 3>Yes.

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<v Speaker 2>So there's this Ozzie kid. We're not sure if he's

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<v Speaker 2>seven or he's twelve. There's all kids like he's either

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<v Speaker 2>of those.

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<v Speaker 1>And nothing in between.

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<v Speaker 3>Do we know where he lives?

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<v Speaker 2>No, just that he's in Australia and his dad and

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<v Speaker 2>him posted a video to TikTok and Instagram of him

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<v Speaker 2>singing like an acoustic version of this song that he

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<v Speaker 2>had written called Eastern Rosella's It went gangbusters, so him

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<v Speaker 2>and his dad, Joel, So it's Miles Phillips's little boy.

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<v Speaker 2>And his dad Joel recorded a full band version of

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<v Speaker 2>this song. And I just need you to hear the

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<v Speaker 2>intro to this song. You're gonna love it immediately.

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<v Speaker 1>And it starts that in the boat Do you want

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<v Speaker 1>this speciesus?

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<v Speaker 3>Oh, it's so good. That's so good. It's so good.

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<v Speaker 1>Doesn't it just sound like every cool band you listened

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<v Speaker 1>to in the year two thousand and six?

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<v Speaker 3>It does.

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<v Speaker 2>It's just somehow nostalgic, even though a seven year old

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<v Speaker 2>has written it. I love it so much, and now

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<v Speaker 2>people are calling for this to be the Triple J

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<v Speaker 2>Hottest one hundred number one song.

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<v Speaker 1>It will be. It will be words, Yeah, it will be. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I think so too.

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<v Speaker 3>I just look it.

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<v Speaker 2>It's such a bang up. This is going to be

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<v Speaker 2>stuck in your head for the rest of the week.

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<v Speaker 2>It's on Spotify like they professionally recorded it. You can

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<v Speaker 2>listen to it. It's so good, so wholesome.

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<v Speaker 1>I did that thing, that terrible thing. I couldn't help myself.

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<v Speaker 1>But I was like, I wonder if I can turn

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<v Speaker 1>this into a learning moment with my children because we're

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<v Speaker 1>listening to it every morning. And then I said, this morning, guys,

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<v Speaker 1>if you wrote a song about a bird, what would

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<v Speaker 1>your song sah? I'm like, stop at money, what are

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<v Speaker 1>you doing anyway? I saw a really funny meme that

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<v Speaker 1>was like because now there's all these spin off memes,

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<v Speaker 1>and the best one I saw today was this guy

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<v Speaker 1>going all the Western rosellas listening to this song just

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<v Speaker 1>being like, oh, yeah, it's okay.

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<v Speaker 3>I guess I was there too.

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<v Speaker 1>I was there too, but like, okay, whatever, No, big deal.

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<v Speaker 1>My colors are kind of great too, No big deal.

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<v Speaker 3>One nanny just isn't enough anymore for the super rich.

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<v Speaker 3>There's an article in the Wall Street Journal this week

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<v Speaker 3>by Jody lip McGraw about what Jody calls CEO parenting,

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<v Speaker 3>and this article has gone absolutely off. It's triggered a

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<v Speaker 3>big debate. But before I get into that, I just

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<v Speaker 3>had to share a couple of crazy details from the

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<v Speaker 3>piece with you. A woman interviewed who is a mother

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<v Speaker 3>of two in fintech, and I know if I understood

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<v Speaker 3>rot fintech was, I would be very rich as well.

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<v Speaker 3>She spends three hundred and fifty thousand Aussie dollars every

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<v Speaker 3>year on a team for her children. The team includes

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<v Speaker 3>a bike riding tutor, a potty trainer, baby chef, personal

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<v Speaker 3>assistant tasked with tracking down particular types of the boo boo.

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<v Speaker 3>And the reason why she does all this is because

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<v Speaker 3>she thinks that her time is better spent on more

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<v Speaker 3>direct less sort of organizational tasks with her children. So

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<v Speaker 3>that's what the debate basically boils down to. This is

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<v Speaker 3>not just about CEOs. This is about how you approach

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<v Speaker 3>parenting and what you think is most important. About parenting.

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<v Speaker 3>On the one hand, you have the Emmagreeds of the world.

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<v Speaker 3>She's that Skims co founder that we've talked about. She

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<v Speaker 3>famously spends only three hours at a time with her

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<v Speaker 3>kids on the weekend, and she prefers to prioritize what

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<v Speaker 3>she calls high impact core memory, like taking fancy holidays.

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<v Speaker 2>She's the one that said cutting up sandwiches is not

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<v Speaker 2>for her exactly, so she never did it, chose not

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<v Speaker 2>to do that.

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<v Speaker 3>So the most persuasive quote that I've heard from that perspective,

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<v Speaker 3>it came from a woman in the article named Alexandra Fine.

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<v Speaker 3>She is the CEO of a sexual wellness products company,

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<v Speaker 3>and she says, every hour I spend folding laundry or

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<v Speaker 3>scheduling a repair person is an hour I'm not present

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<v Speaker 3>with my kids. That's not a philosophy, that's math. So

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<v Speaker 3>the reason I like that quote and I bring it

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<v Speaker 3>to you is because even though the CEOs exemplify particularly

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<v Speaker 3>extreme sort of school of thought around this, every day

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<v Speaker 3>mums and everyday dads have to make the decision about

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<v Speaker 3>how to spend their twenty four hours in the day.

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<v Speaker 3>And that's kind of the best argument for that side

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<v Speaker 3>of the debate. On the other side of the debate,

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<v Speaker 3>I guess at the extreme you might have tidwives, some homeschoolers,

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<v Speaker 3>other women who think that any time spent away from

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<v Speaker 3>your kids, particularly if you're a mother, is doing them harm.

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<v Speaker 3>But then again, I wanted to pull in a quote

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<v Speaker 3>from that side of the debate. Ivana Greco, who was

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<v Speaker 3>a woman interviewed in the article with four children, a

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<v Speaker 3>former lawyer who now writes a substack. She makes the

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<v Speaker 3>argument that the most meaningful moments I have with my

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<v Speaker 3>children are completely unexpected. They happen simply because we spend

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<v Speaker 3>time together. So on the one hand, high impact core

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<v Speaker 3>memory making, leave all the sort of like mundane tasks

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<v Speaker 3>to someone else, And on the other hand, you have

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<v Speaker 3>no the magic happens in the everyday moments, and that

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<v Speaker 3>sort of the drudgery of folding laundry or making lunches,

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<v Speaker 3>that is, in fact, where the most glorious moments of

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<v Speaker 3>parenting come from. So that's the contours of this debate.

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<v Speaker 3>Mon's where do you stand on that spectrum?

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<v Speaker 1>Well, before I get to that, I think what was

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<v Speaker 1>really interesting to me was the how charged the comments

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<v Speaker 1>were on this article, and there were six hundred and

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<v Speaker 1>fifty comments in less than twenty four hours, and they

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<v Speaker 1>were all in the same kind of emotional register, which

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<v Speaker 1>was this is sad, selfish, sickening, narcissistic. These clowns don't

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<v Speaker 1>know what they're missing.

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<v Speaker 3>This is ABOUTEO mums, this who are in the article.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, this is directed at the mums outsourcing the hard

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<v Speaker 1>parts of parenting for the high value parts. One person wrote,

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<v Speaker 1>these kids are going to make some lucky therapists very

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<v Speaker 1>rich someday, and the top comment was being present for

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<v Speaker 1>your child means clipping their tone, ouls, reading their favorite

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<v Speaker 1>books seven times, getting vomited on, helping them open and

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<v Speaker 1>close the door for forty five minutes, and somehow turning

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<v Speaker 1>it into a game. The joys of parenting are inextricably

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<v Speaker 1>tied to the work of parenting, and I think that's

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<v Speaker 1>the crux of why everyone is so charged over this,

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<v Speaker 1>because it does seem like this, this example of parenting

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<v Speaker 1>breaks this kind of unspoken moral code that we have

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<v Speaker 1>that we're sold about good parenting, which is that like

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<v Speaker 1>love is proven through sacrifice, and that like the exhausting

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<v Speaker 1>parts are the proof that you did it properly, and

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<v Speaker 1>so when someone says, oh no, I'm going to delegate,

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<v Speaker 1>all the tea spits out, there's this groundswell of people saying, well,

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<v Speaker 1>hang on, that's not the deal, that's not what we do.

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<v Speaker 1>So I thought that that was really interesting that there

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<v Speaker 1>was even in the comments, there was no kind of

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<v Speaker 1>devil's advocate or any pro lens on this. Everyone was

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<v Speaker 1>vehemently against it.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I'll be the pro lens on this because I agree.

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<v Speaker 2>Mon's like everything you see on that was everyone saying

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<v Speaker 2>this is not what parenting is. If you want to

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<v Speaker 2>be a parent, that is not how you do it.

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<v Speaker 2>But it's interesting that we say that because, on the

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<v Speaker 2>other hand, the thing that we hear again and again

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<v Speaker 2>is that you cannot pour from an empty cup. Make

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<v Speaker 2>sure you have time away from your children, make sure

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<v Speaker 2>that you have a personality outside of your children, and

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<v Speaker 2>that you get space to do the things that you

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<v Speaker 2>want to do. And so, yes, it's to an extreme level.

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<v Speaker 2>But when these CEOs go, Okay, well I'm going to

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<v Speaker 2>outsource all those low joy tasks. I'm going to get

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<v Speaker 2>rid of all those boring things that I don't want

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<v Speaker 2>to do and be with my children in a way

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<v Speaker 2>where I'm present with them, where I'm fun with.

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<v Speaker 3>Them, where I'm my best self.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, where I'm my best self with them, then we

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<v Speaker 2>have a problem with it. And I think if given

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<v Speaker 2>the opportunity, I'm sure all of us can think of

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<v Speaker 2>a laundry list of things that we would like to outsource.

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<v Speaker 2>My number one would be tipping the sand out of

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<v Speaker 2>my daughter's shoes at the end of the day and

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<v Speaker 2>having to clap them together to get.

0:11:38.800 --> 0:11:39.400
<v Speaker 1>All the sand down.

0:11:39.440 --> 0:11:42.440
<v Speaker 2>Lit There's so many things we would rather not be

0:11:42.600 --> 0:11:46.840
<v Speaker 2>doing and so but when they do this, we don't

0:11:46.960 --> 0:11:49.599
<v Speaker 2>like it. But I guess on the other hand, the

0:11:49.960 --> 0:11:52.840
<v Speaker 2>main woman in this article, Christine Landers, she's the one

0:11:52.880 --> 0:11:55.720
<v Speaker 2>saying she doesn't want to clip her baby's toenails, so

0:11:55.800 --> 0:11:59.920
<v Speaker 2>she doesn't she outsources that. I loved her last line

0:12:00.080 --> 0:12:02.480
<v Speaker 2>where she was saying they were asking her, does she

0:12:02.520 --> 0:12:04.400
<v Speaker 2>think she'll look back and feel like she missed out

0:12:04.400 --> 0:12:07.600
<v Speaker 2>on something if she's not in these menial moments, And

0:12:07.640 --> 0:12:10.800
<v Speaker 2>she said the doing is handled, but the thinking is

0:12:10.840 --> 0:12:14.520
<v Speaker 2>still me and I couldn't help. But think you spend

0:12:14.720 --> 0:12:19.719
<v Speaker 2>three hundred and fifty thousand Australian dollars on help and

0:12:19.800 --> 0:12:22.959
<v Speaker 2>you still have the mental load, like we actually can't

0:12:22.960 --> 0:12:26.520
<v Speaker 2>outrun the mental load. She still has to delegate and

0:12:26.640 --> 0:12:29.360
<v Speaker 2>decide on those things with her children, no matter how

0:12:29.440 --> 0:12:31.120
<v Speaker 2>much she tries to run for from it.

0:12:31.240 --> 0:12:32.920
<v Speaker 3>Right, that's a great point, Stacy.

0:12:33.559 --> 0:12:37.280
<v Speaker 1>Did you notice, Amelia the language in this article. And

0:12:37.360 --> 0:12:40.080
<v Speaker 1>I know they are couching it as CEO parenting, but

0:12:40.160 --> 0:12:44.959
<v Speaker 1>I really noticed how the language even to describe parenting

0:12:45.000 --> 0:12:47.640
<v Speaker 1>by these people is quite corporatized, Like at some points

0:12:47.640 --> 0:12:49.520
<v Speaker 1>it feels like you're on a zoom call. They talk

0:12:49.559 --> 0:12:53.880
<v Speaker 1>about delegating, they talk about high impact moments, you know,

0:12:54.400 --> 0:12:58.800
<v Speaker 1>low value parenting, low value tasks, And I think that

0:12:58.960 --> 0:13:02.000
<v Speaker 1>language in itself makes people suspicious. Right, It's sort of

0:13:02.040 --> 0:13:06.920
<v Speaker 1>that the idea that we've become so obsessed with self

0:13:06.960 --> 0:13:12.200
<v Speaker 1>optimization that now we treat like simple tasks of caregiving

0:13:12.360 --> 0:13:15.480
<v Speaker 1>as a waste of time, which just feels actually pretty despairing.

0:13:15.520 --> 0:13:17.040
<v Speaker 1>And I think a lot of the comments we're talking

0:13:17.040 --> 0:13:19.439
<v Speaker 1>about that too, like where do you draw a line?

0:13:19.520 --> 0:13:22.840
<v Speaker 3>But then the comments kind of make me uneasy as well.

0:13:22.920 --> 0:13:26.640
<v Speaker 3>Because I think that was a great point you made, Stacy,

0:13:26.720 --> 0:13:31.479
<v Speaker 3>that it's almost like mums in particular can't win because

0:13:32.000 --> 0:13:34.680
<v Speaker 3>we are told put your life checket on first, and

0:13:34.720 --> 0:13:37.320
<v Speaker 3>then we're told no, not like that. And the thing

0:13:38.160 --> 0:13:40.000
<v Speaker 3>Mom's that you said about how the comments were so

0:13:40.240 --> 0:13:43.960
<v Speaker 3>charged and so kind of angry. Actually it's sort of

0:13:44.000 --> 0:13:47.400
<v Speaker 3>like why do you care? You know, like if you had,

0:13:47.440 --> 0:13:50.840
<v Speaker 3>as you say, Stacy, if we had millions of dollars,

0:13:51.120 --> 0:13:54.400
<v Speaker 3>we'd probably be doing the same thing. So where does

0:13:54.480 --> 0:13:58.160
<v Speaker 3>the anger come from? Is it like because we feel

0:13:58.200 --> 0:14:01.320
<v Speaker 3>resentful that we can't have that what we perceive as

0:14:01.360 --> 0:14:03.119
<v Speaker 3>the easier time parenting.

0:14:03.480 --> 0:14:05.480
<v Speaker 1>Now I have a theory on where the anger comes from,

0:14:05.720 --> 0:14:09.800
<v Speaker 1>because historically this is how wealthy people parent, right, you

0:14:09.800 --> 0:14:13.000
<v Speaker 1>think about about it, that's such a good that's true exactly.

0:14:13.280 --> 0:14:17.840
<v Speaker 1>You think about Mary Poppins and literally mister Banks is

0:14:17.840 --> 0:14:20.240
<v Speaker 1>the banker and he comes home for his slippers and

0:14:20.240 --> 0:14:22.040
<v Speaker 1>his pipe. He packs the kids off their head and

0:14:22.040 --> 0:14:23.720
<v Speaker 1>sends them off to bed, and that house is run

0:14:23.760 --> 0:14:25.880
<v Speaker 1>by a governess, a nanny, a cook, a chef for

0:14:25.960 --> 0:14:29.400
<v Speaker 1>cleaner and running around.

0:14:29.520 --> 0:14:34.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean just that Amelia's boyfriend mentioned Dick van Dyke.

0:14:34.440 --> 0:14:38.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, exactly. Or like the sound of music, like Captain

0:14:38.520 --> 0:14:42.360
<v Speaker 1>von Trapp is there doing only the high value moments

0:14:42.440 --> 0:14:44.240
<v Speaker 1>he gets to be in the family band with the

0:14:44.320 --> 0:14:49.680
<v Speaker 1>kids while Maria takes on costumes. This is how they

0:14:49.720 --> 0:14:52.760
<v Speaker 1>live and how they parent this. I think what's different

0:14:52.840 --> 0:14:55.560
<v Speaker 1>in this case is that I wonder if it's kind

0:14:55.560 --> 0:14:58.240
<v Speaker 1>of unspoken. We don't really read about it or hear

0:14:58.240 --> 0:15:01.320
<v Speaker 1>about it that often. But the second part is that

0:15:01.360 --> 0:15:04.880
<v Speaker 1>I thought this article was really gendered, and I first

0:15:04.920 --> 0:15:08.360
<v Speaker 1>noticed it in the comments, where a comment that made

0:15:08.360 --> 0:15:12.480
<v Speaker 1>me pause was a man that wrote, my wife quit

0:15:12.560 --> 0:15:16.280
<v Speaker 1>her job and let and we let the nanny go.

0:15:16.400 --> 0:15:18.840
<v Speaker 1>It was the best decision we have ever made for

0:15:18.920 --> 0:15:22.560
<v Speaker 1>our family, followed up by another comment, my wife made

0:15:22.600 --> 0:15:25.560
<v Speaker 1>a similar decision thirty four years ago and we've never

0:15:25.600 --> 0:15:29.640
<v Speaker 1>looked back. And then the first line of this article

0:15:30.440 --> 0:15:34.120
<v Speaker 1>reads It's very loaded. It says, as a mother of two,

0:15:34.720 --> 0:15:40.120
<v Speaker 1>there are certain tasks Christine Landis won't do. And then

0:15:40.200 --> 0:15:43.120
<v Speaker 1>I realized everyone they talked to in this piece, every

0:15:43.200 --> 0:15:46.720
<v Speaker 1>parent whose choices are scrutinized in this article, is a mum.

0:15:46.960 --> 0:15:51.560
<v Speaker 1>The article talks to Christine, Olivia, Emma, Alexandra Evana Like

0:15:52.040 --> 0:15:55.160
<v Speaker 1>I just thought, haven't wealthy fathers been doing this for generations?

0:15:55.200 --> 0:15:57.240
<v Speaker 1>And in the moment it's a woman saying the same

0:15:57.320 --> 0:15:59.960
<v Speaker 1>words suddenly we feel disgusted by it.

0:16:00.400 --> 0:16:02.640
<v Speaker 3>I think that's a great point too, But I just

0:16:02.720 --> 0:16:05.720
<v Speaker 3>want to get back to something that really made me

0:16:05.760 --> 0:16:08.200
<v Speaker 3>set up that you mentioned before, the idea that wealthy

0:16:08.240 --> 0:16:14.520
<v Speaker 3>people have always done this, so why is it now unacceptable?

0:16:14.640 --> 0:16:20.360
<v Speaker 3>And I think it's because we expect something even more

0:16:20.400 --> 0:16:22.840
<v Speaker 3>from parents these days than we have in the past,

0:16:22.880 --> 0:16:26.080
<v Speaker 3>which is that they have to do everything for their

0:16:26.160 --> 0:16:29.120
<v Speaker 3>kid right. They have to be emotionally present for them,

0:16:29.160 --> 0:16:32.400
<v Speaker 3>They have to both parents have to work typically now

0:16:32.440 --> 0:16:36.200
<v Speaker 3>to pay at the exorbitant mortgages that Australians in particular

0:16:36.320 --> 0:16:39.200
<v Speaker 3>have to pay. They have to think about setting them

0:16:39.280 --> 0:16:41.600
<v Speaker 3>up for an ai world, setting them up for a

0:16:41.640 --> 0:16:45.760
<v Speaker 3>warming planet. The demands on parents are greater than ever before,

0:16:45.880 --> 0:16:51.040
<v Speaker 3>I would argue, and yet we don't want anyone to

0:16:51.080 --> 0:16:53.280
<v Speaker 3>try and make it easier for themselves. Yeah, I'm working

0:16:53.280 --> 0:16:55.400
<v Speaker 3>this out in real time. What is different about it?

0:16:55.400 --> 0:16:58.240
<v Speaker 2>I found myself thinking about that too and thinking, oh,

0:16:58.600 --> 0:17:00.920
<v Speaker 2>how does your child view you? Then if you're not

0:17:01.000 --> 0:17:04.120
<v Speaker 2>the person who's doing the caregiving parts, So if you're

0:17:04.160 --> 0:17:06.320
<v Speaker 2>their parent and you're in their life, but you're not

0:17:06.400 --> 0:17:08.280
<v Speaker 2>the person they go to to ask for a snack

0:17:08.359 --> 0:17:10.120
<v Speaker 2>and you're not the person they go to to ask

0:17:10.240 --> 0:17:13.040
<v Speaker 2>to do up your shoelace, or you're not the person

0:17:13.080 --> 0:17:14.840
<v Speaker 2>who they call out for in the middle of the night,

0:17:14.880 --> 0:17:17.560
<v Speaker 2>because there's a night nanny for that. What is their

0:17:18.119 --> 0:17:21.520
<v Speaker 2>relationship to you? Like, what are you to them?

0:17:21.640 --> 0:17:25.400
<v Speaker 3>And I think for modern for modern times, we're made

0:17:25.520 --> 0:17:28.400
<v Speaker 3>uneasy by beard that parents aren't the go.

0:17:28.240 --> 0:17:31.040
<v Speaker 1>To for they and that we aren't everything and their

0:17:31.080 --> 0:17:32.159
<v Speaker 1>whole world and all.

0:17:32.040 --> 0:17:33.879
<v Speaker 3>Of it, the Captain and the sound of music. I

0:17:33.920 --> 0:17:35.679
<v Speaker 3>think no one expected him to be a kind of

0:17:35.680 --> 0:17:38.159
<v Speaker 3>emotional resource of gentle parenting for them.

0:17:38.240 --> 0:17:41.679
<v Speaker 1>Contract kick exactly exactly right, Yeah, because we're more evolved

0:17:41.680 --> 0:17:43.040
<v Speaker 1>as parents, You're right. Yeah.

0:17:43.080 --> 0:17:45.520
<v Speaker 2>I did want to bring in actually another extreme example

0:17:45.560 --> 0:17:47.920
<v Speaker 2>of this, that is a man who's talking about this

0:17:48.080 --> 0:17:50.439
<v Speaker 2>and it was received a little bit differently, so I

0:17:50.440 --> 0:17:55.040
<v Speaker 2>think that that is interesting too. So this was Jonathan Swanson.

0:17:55.040 --> 0:17:57.800
<v Speaker 2>He's an entrepreneur and he was on the run Rate

0:17:57.920 --> 0:18:01.119
<v Speaker 2>podcast and I want to play you what they asked

0:18:01.160 --> 0:18:04.040
<v Speaker 2>him about the most radical thing he does to outsource

0:18:04.080 --> 0:18:04.880
<v Speaker 2>some of the parenting.

0:18:05.160 --> 0:18:07.960
<v Speaker 4>What's one thing that you've delegated that most people would

0:18:07.960 --> 0:18:12.920
<v Speaker 4>consider ridiculous. We have four kids and you know, as

0:18:12.960 --> 0:18:15.360
<v Speaker 4>you know, babies and kids don't always sleep through the night.

0:18:15.440 --> 0:18:17.320
<v Speaker 4>We listen to the baby monitors, so you could hear

0:18:17.320 --> 0:18:19.800
<v Speaker 4>them cry and you could go in. And Catherine's like,

0:18:19.920 --> 0:18:23.159
<v Speaker 4>why are we listening? Why don't we delegate that to

0:18:24.000 --> 0:18:26.200
<v Speaker 4>insist in the Philippines. And so we now have two

0:18:26.320 --> 0:18:29.520
<v Speaker 4>nurses who live in the Philippines and it's daytime for

0:18:29.560 --> 0:18:32.720
<v Speaker 4>them and they're working, studying, but they have our baby

0:18:32.720 --> 0:18:35.719
<v Speaker 4>monitors on and if the kids need help, they can

0:18:35.720 --> 0:18:38.040
<v Speaker 4>play a song. If the kids are crying and really

0:18:38.040 --> 0:18:39.800
<v Speaker 4>need us, they'll call us and we'll go in. But

0:18:39.960 --> 0:18:42.600
<v Speaker 4>ninety percent of the time they can be calmed though

0:18:42.680 --> 0:18:44.639
<v Speaker 4>without us going in. I mean, we've been doing it

0:18:44.640 --> 0:18:47.280
<v Speaker 4>for years now, and it's freaking the last thing I

0:18:47.280 --> 0:18:47.960
<v Speaker 4>would turn off.

0:18:48.480 --> 0:18:51.760
<v Speaker 3>So see, why did this make me so angry? I

0:18:51.840 --> 0:18:53.880
<v Speaker 3>just say why everyone got angry at the Wall Street

0:18:53.920 --> 0:18:56.360
<v Speaker 3>Channel article and I wasn't angry at the Wall Street

0:18:56.440 --> 0:19:01.920
<v Speaker 3>Chournal article. This makes my blood boil. Why? I don't know.

0:19:02.200 --> 0:19:05.320
<v Speaker 2>I wonder whether it's because that part is the ultimate

0:19:05.359 --> 0:19:06.200
<v Speaker 2>caregiving part.

0:19:06.640 --> 0:19:08.320
<v Speaker 1>That is the part I think you look.

0:19:08.160 --> 0:19:10.680
<v Speaker 2>Back on and go that was that's the harvest part.

0:19:10.560 --> 0:19:11.760
<v Speaker 1>That's the thankless part.

0:19:11.880 --> 0:19:14.600
<v Speaker 2>That's the dragging yourself down the hall in the middle

0:19:14.640 --> 0:19:15.680
<v Speaker 2>of the nine kid.

0:19:15.560 --> 0:19:18.280
<v Speaker 3>Is the most vulnerable, yes, all.

0:19:18.040 --> 0:19:22.000
<v Speaker 2>Alone, and to think of them just getting a through

0:19:22.000 --> 0:19:26.480
<v Speaker 2>the monitor from a random person in the Philippines is

0:19:26.720 --> 0:19:27.320
<v Speaker 2>just wild.

0:19:27.480 --> 0:19:30.239
<v Speaker 3>I think that's what it is. It feels like a

0:19:30.280 --> 0:19:33.080
<v Speaker 3>bridge too far. Yeah. Is it also because a man

0:19:33.240 --> 0:19:34.560
<v Speaker 3>is saying that he does this?

0:19:34.960 --> 0:19:36.200
<v Speaker 1>Is that why I'm annoyed?

0:19:36.280 --> 0:19:38.359
<v Speaker 2>I feel like it would we would be angry, or

0:19:38.400 --> 0:19:41.919
<v Speaker 2>if it was a woman, if it was, yes, I

0:19:41.960 --> 0:19:43.560
<v Speaker 2>think we probably would.

0:19:43.800 --> 0:19:46.600
<v Speaker 1>I think that the reason you're angry is because, yeah,

0:19:46.640 --> 0:19:50.119
<v Speaker 1>that's probably a bridge too far, like outsourcing bike riding,

0:19:50.240 --> 0:19:54.000
<v Speaker 1>outsourcing cutting toenawls. Fine, but in a moment when your

0:19:54.080 --> 0:19:58.600
<v Speaker 1>child's in distress in the night. When secure attachment, that's

0:19:58.640 --> 0:20:03.120
<v Speaker 1>when it's built, built in high value tasks. Using their words,

0:20:03.200 --> 0:20:08.000
<v Speaker 1>it's not built on vacations. Attachments are built with consistency

0:20:08.440 --> 0:20:12.960
<v Speaker 1>with showing up, with doing all those really like perceived

0:20:13.400 --> 0:20:17.720
<v Speaker 1>perceived as boring and low value tasks, shushing to bed

0:20:17.840 --> 0:20:20.760
<v Speaker 1>and battime and meal time. That's when it's built.

0:20:20.880 --> 0:20:23.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And I think he would probably argue that they're

0:20:23.160 --> 0:20:25.320
<v Speaker 2>well rested and show up as their best selves, like

0:20:25.359 --> 0:20:28.359
<v Speaker 2>we said before, but it's showing up in this case

0:20:28.560 --> 0:20:30.680
<v Speaker 2>is what they're missing out on, and that's something that

0:20:30.720 --> 0:20:31.880
<v Speaker 2>can't really be replaced.

0:20:32.600 --> 0:20:34.600
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And I think that that's the great irony of

0:20:34.640 --> 0:20:36.680
<v Speaker 1>this piece is that these parents seem to be saying,

0:20:36.880 --> 0:20:39.640
<v Speaker 1>I'm going to delegate all this stuff so that I'm

0:20:39.960 --> 0:20:43.320
<v Speaker 1>more emotionally available to my kids. But if the emotional

0:20:43.320 --> 0:20:46.440
<v Speaker 1>connection is built in all of those really small moments,

0:20:46.720 --> 0:20:49.720
<v Speaker 1>it's kind of a false economy. But a Coeo talk

0:20:49.760 --> 0:20:53.000
<v Speaker 1>for you guys. All Right, I have a bone to

0:20:53.119 --> 0:20:56.760
<v Speaker 1>pick with kids' birthday parties, and it happens after everyone

0:20:56.800 --> 0:21:00.399
<v Speaker 1>goes home. May I please have pick away? Yeah? Thank you?

0:21:01.160 --> 0:21:03.760
<v Speaker 1>It's the post birthday party? Thank you text. Do you

0:21:03.840 --> 0:21:04.960
<v Speaker 1>guys know what I'm talking about?

0:21:05.800 --> 0:21:06.080
<v Speaker 3>Yes?

0:21:06.960 --> 0:21:09.240
<v Speaker 1>So how it goes is you have a birthday party

0:21:09.240 --> 0:21:11.240
<v Speaker 1>for your child. You go to the effort to find

0:21:11.240 --> 0:21:15.520
<v Speaker 1>a venue, think about timing, duration, cost, wet weather contingencies.

0:21:15.560 --> 0:21:20.359
<v Speaker 1>You think about inviting people, chasing RSVPs. You consider the

0:21:20.359 --> 0:21:22.560
<v Speaker 1>parents that are attending, do they want booze or coffee?

0:21:22.600 --> 0:21:24.800
<v Speaker 1>And then you have to think about food. Don't forget

0:21:24.800 --> 0:21:28.119
<v Speaker 1>the allergies. What are you serving for drinks? Games? Balloons,

0:21:28.359 --> 0:21:31.760
<v Speaker 1>party cake, party backs right when the party is over.

0:21:32.560 --> 0:21:36.359
<v Speaker 1>That's not it, guys, It's not over yet. Right. There's

0:21:36.400 --> 0:21:40.800
<v Speaker 1>this final step, this final unprecedented step that has crept in.

0:21:41.000 --> 0:21:43.919
<v Speaker 1>That is the post birthday party thank you text. And

0:21:44.240 --> 0:21:45.639
<v Speaker 1>this is where you gather up the gifts that your

0:21:45.680 --> 0:21:48.280
<v Speaker 1>child's been given. And then it's a process where you

0:21:48.320 --> 0:21:51.000
<v Speaker 1>have to identify which gift came from which kid, and

0:21:51.040 --> 0:21:53.239
<v Speaker 1>then you have to photograph the birthday kid holding it

0:21:53.480 --> 0:21:56.879
<v Speaker 1>and smiling. Then you have to locate the correct number

0:21:57.040 --> 0:21:59.240
<v Speaker 1>of the parent of the gifter, and then send the

0:21:59.240 --> 0:22:01.520
<v Speaker 1>text saying thank you, thank you so much, like Evie

0:22:01.520 --> 0:22:05.959
<v Speaker 1>loves this lego emoji emojimoji, right, and it's that times

0:22:05.960 --> 0:22:08.159
<v Speaker 1>fifteen or twenty or however many kids you invited to

0:22:08.160 --> 0:22:11.800
<v Speaker 1>the party and brought a gift. I would like to

0:22:11.880 --> 0:22:16.960
<v Speaker 1>propose a nationwide amnesty on this part of the birthday

0:22:17.000 --> 0:22:21.320
<v Speaker 1>party process. Okay, yes, it doesn't need to happen. Here's

0:22:21.320 --> 0:22:24.879
<v Speaker 1>my pitch one. This does not teach the children's gratitude.

0:22:24.920 --> 0:22:27.880
<v Speaker 1>This does not teach the children manners. It's not them

0:22:28.000 --> 0:22:30.560
<v Speaker 1>that's holding the phone and taking the photo and writing

0:22:30.560 --> 0:22:33.200
<v Speaker 1>the text and choosing the emojis and tracking the numbers down,

0:22:33.480 --> 0:22:34.680
<v Speaker 1>they're just opening the next toy.

0:22:34.920 --> 0:22:37.440
<v Speaker 2>And surely this then continues on because then you feel

0:22:37.440 --> 0:22:39.520
<v Speaker 2>like you have to reply and say it was an

0:22:39.560 --> 0:22:41.399
<v Speaker 2>amazing party, thank you so much for having me.

0:22:41.480 --> 0:22:44.280
<v Speaker 1>I'm glad that they liked the gift. Right, Yeah, completely,

0:22:44.440 --> 0:22:47.520
<v Speaker 1>just going around and round forever. And secondly, this is

0:22:47.560 --> 0:22:51.119
<v Speaker 1>a task that generally falls on mums and it's just

0:22:51.200 --> 0:22:56.360
<v Speaker 1>another piece of administrative load that I don't think anyone needs. Right,

0:22:56.480 --> 0:22:59.520
<v Speaker 1>So here's my proposal. You attend a party and you

0:22:59.560 --> 0:23:04.080
<v Speaker 1>bring a gift. On leaving, your child says thank you

0:23:04.119 --> 0:23:07.480
<v Speaker 1>for having me, and then your child receives a party

0:23:07.480 --> 0:23:10.840
<v Speaker 1>bag and they say thank you for coming, and that's

0:23:10.880 --> 0:23:11.560
<v Speaker 1>the transaction.

0:23:11.960 --> 0:23:12.240
<v Speaker 3>That's it.

0:23:13.240 --> 0:23:13.800
<v Speaker 1>That's it.

0:23:14.200 --> 0:23:18.320
<v Speaker 3>You made a proposal earlier on Parenting out Loud, which

0:23:18.440 --> 0:23:21.600
<v Speaker 3>was that instead of the party bag, kids get a

0:23:21.600 --> 0:23:22.359
<v Speaker 3>slice of cake.

0:23:22.800 --> 0:23:25.400
<v Speaker 1>So I I think that's too much. I'm not prepared

0:23:25.400 --> 0:23:28.480
<v Speaker 1>to follow through with that. Okay, that was.

0:23:28.600 --> 0:23:30.879
<v Speaker 2>Me who wanted to cut party bags, and now Mons

0:23:30.880 --> 0:23:32.040
<v Speaker 2>wants to cut the thank you.

0:23:32.160 --> 0:23:34.720
<v Speaker 3>Oh no, I'm all for it. I have to add, though,

0:23:35.880 --> 0:23:39.120
<v Speaker 3>I recently hosted a kid's birthday party and we never

0:23:39.240 --> 0:23:42.399
<v Speaker 3>found out who gave my son a Hoytz gift card. So,

0:23:42.560 --> 0:23:45.160
<v Speaker 3>if you are listening, because gift cards are really hard

0:23:45.160 --> 0:23:47.280
<v Speaker 3>to keep track off, thank you so much for the

0:23:47.320 --> 0:23:49.800
<v Speaker 3>Holtz gift card. I'm so sorry that I didn't say

0:23:49.800 --> 0:23:50.280
<v Speaker 3>thank you.

0:23:50.600 --> 0:23:53.199
<v Speaker 1>Every parent actually just needs a podcast just say it

0:23:53.240 --> 0:23:56.520
<v Speaker 1>on there. Thanks for the gifts. Everyone be done, one

0:23:56.520 --> 0:23:59.400
<v Speaker 1>fell swoop. If we had the National Amnesty, you wouldn't

0:23:59.400 --> 0:24:01.240
<v Speaker 1>feel the guilt because you would just know that the

0:24:01.359 --> 0:24:04.640
<v Speaker 1>transaction ended at the party and they got the party bag,

0:24:04.680 --> 0:24:05.680
<v Speaker 1>you got the gift. It's done.

0:24:05.920 --> 0:24:06.359
<v Speaker 3>I love it.

0:24:06.520 --> 0:24:08.520
<v Speaker 1>And so yeah, I don't know. Am I wrong? Am

0:24:08.560 --> 0:24:10.240
<v Speaker 1>I an asshole? Am I going to actually be able

0:24:10.240 --> 0:24:12.119
<v Speaker 1>to follow through with this when my child has a party?

0:24:12.240 --> 0:24:14.880
<v Speaker 3>The problem is it's sort of like how I've heard

0:24:14.960 --> 0:24:17.720
<v Speaker 3>parents of older kids talk about how everyone has to

0:24:17.800 --> 0:24:20.680
<v Speaker 3>agree on the no phone sing and on waiting to

0:24:20.720 --> 0:24:23.440
<v Speaker 3>get a phone. We all have to agree on this.

0:24:23.680 --> 0:24:26.280
<v Speaker 3>No one can kind of decide that they're actually not

0:24:26.359 --> 0:24:28.200
<v Speaker 3>going to go along with it, because then we will

0:24:28.240 --> 0:24:29.200
<v Speaker 3>look like an asshole.

0:24:29.840 --> 0:24:31.720
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. The reason I thought of this is because we

0:24:31.760 --> 0:24:34.320
<v Speaker 1>went to a party and then I texted the mum

0:24:34.440 --> 0:24:37.520
<v Speaker 1>after to say thank you so much. Like great party,

0:24:37.560 --> 0:24:40.080
<v Speaker 1>probably best kids party I've ever been to. And she

0:24:40.280 --> 0:24:43.359
<v Speaker 1>her response wasn't thank you so much for coming, It was,

0:24:43.440 --> 0:24:45.919
<v Speaker 1>oh my god, I'm sorry. I haven't thanked you for

0:24:45.960 --> 0:24:47.680
<v Speaker 1>the gift yet. I just haven't gotten around to it.

0:24:47.760 --> 0:24:50.879
<v Speaker 1>And that's where I was just like, this is nuts.

0:24:50.920 --> 0:24:52.840
<v Speaker 1>What are we doing? And so my gift to her

0:24:52.960 --> 0:24:54.560
<v Speaker 1>was like, take us off your list. You don't need

0:24:54.600 --> 0:24:57.200
<v Speaker 1>to do that shit. Little gear change now. And something

0:24:57.200 --> 0:24:59.800
<v Speaker 1>that I spied in the Mum and mea out loud

0:24:59.800 --> 0:25:01.320
<v Speaker 1>face book group that I really want to talk about

0:25:01.359 --> 0:25:04.359
<v Speaker 1>because apparently some of us has misunderstood what school is

0:25:04.400 --> 0:25:08.639
<v Speaker 1>for this week, a former teacher and principal in the

0:25:08.640 --> 0:25:11.960
<v Speaker 1>out Louders Facebook group had a few choice words to

0:25:11.960 --> 0:25:15.120
<v Speaker 1>say about it. Her name's Lucy Loader aka Brave Parenting

0:25:15.160 --> 0:25:17.760
<v Speaker 1>on Instagram, and this is what she had to say.

0:25:18.359 --> 0:25:20.879
<v Speaker 5>It's school to teach everything, do you, because that's what

0:25:20.920 --> 0:25:23.600
<v Speaker 5>I'm hearing in lots of places manners. Why can't the

0:25:23.600 --> 0:25:24.879
<v Speaker 5>school teach that resilience?

0:25:24.920 --> 0:25:25.960
<v Speaker 1>Isn't that the school's job?

0:25:26.320 --> 0:25:29.960
<v Speaker 5>Money? Skills, respect, how to lose gracefully? School should cover

0:25:30.000 --> 0:25:32.960
<v Speaker 5>that too, right, Because in the olden days, school is

0:25:33.000 --> 0:25:36.439
<v Speaker 5>for reading, writing, maths, history, all the different things, but

0:25:36.680 --> 0:25:39.240
<v Speaker 5>social skills and how to actually live in the world.

0:25:39.320 --> 0:25:40.440
<v Speaker 1>That was the family's job.

0:25:40.720 --> 0:25:44.800
<v Speaker 5>Now the curriculum is already bursting, and somehow it's expected

0:25:44.840 --> 0:25:47.000
<v Speaker 5>to teach the things that families used to teach on

0:25:47.119 --> 0:25:48.040
<v Speaker 5>top of everything else.

0:25:48.240 --> 0:25:49.040
<v Speaker 1>And here's the truth.

0:25:49.080 --> 0:25:52.159
<v Speaker 5>Whether your child's in mainstream school, private school, or homeschooled,

0:25:52.440 --> 0:25:56.119
<v Speaker 5>you are all homeschooling teaching the stuff that actually matters

0:25:56.119 --> 0:25:58.760
<v Speaker 5>long term. They can chat ept who was the first

0:25:58.840 --> 0:26:00.800
<v Speaker 5>prime in the stuff, but that can't look up how

0:26:00.840 --> 0:26:02.880
<v Speaker 5>to be helpful to others, how to bounce back from

0:26:02.920 --> 0:26:05.399
<v Speaker 5>being wrong, how to be a decent human when no

0:26:05.440 --> 0:26:08.320
<v Speaker 5>one's scoring them on it. That's not part of the curriculum.

0:26:08.560 --> 0:26:10.720
<v Speaker 5>The proof is when someone stops you in the street

0:26:10.720 --> 0:26:12.639
<v Speaker 5>and says, your child said a loon to me, use

0:26:12.720 --> 0:26:15.280
<v Speaker 5>my name, had a real conversation, or they stuck up

0:26:15.280 --> 0:26:18.439
<v Speaker 5>for someone being picked on, learning their family history, what

0:26:18.480 --> 0:26:20.800
<v Speaker 5>they stand for, and what type of human they're becoming.

0:26:20.960 --> 0:26:23.919
<v Speaker 5>That's on you, not the classroom teacher. And people ask me,

0:26:24.080 --> 0:26:27.879
<v Speaker 5>tax mortgages, changing tires, why isn't that in the school curriculum.

0:26:27.560 --> 0:26:30.080
<v Speaker 1>Because these things have never been the school's job. It's

0:26:30.119 --> 0:26:32.760
<v Speaker 1>always been things that you learned at home. Did you

0:26:32.760 --> 0:26:33.440
<v Speaker 1>think you could just.

0:26:33.400 --> 0:26:36.280
<v Speaker 5>Have kids and let others teach them absolutely everything. You

0:26:36.359 --> 0:26:38.240
<v Speaker 5>are not just the parent or the adult. You are

0:26:38.280 --> 0:26:41.040
<v Speaker 5>another teacher in their lives. And this isn't aimed at

0:26:41.040 --> 0:26:43.920
<v Speaker 5>every parent. You'll know if I'm talking to you, my opinion,

0:26:44.040 --> 0:26:45.919
<v Speaker 5>your child, your call, no judgment.

0:26:46.960 --> 0:26:48.080
<v Speaker 3>Lucy's president.

0:26:48.520 --> 0:26:53.320
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Amelia loved it. Does Lucy have a point?

0:26:53.440 --> 0:26:58.320
<v Speaker 3>Yes? I think Lucy is so sensible. And I also

0:26:58.400 --> 0:27:01.719
<v Speaker 3>look through the comments and I agreed with everything that

0:27:01.760 --> 0:27:06.320
<v Speaker 3>she wrote in the comments, really engaging thoughtfully with sort

0:27:06.320 --> 0:27:11.120
<v Speaker 3>of rebuttals and criticisms of her argument. But I don't

0:27:11.240 --> 0:27:14.320
<v Speaker 3>want my kids learning how to change a tire at school. Look,

0:27:14.359 --> 0:27:16.879
<v Speaker 3>I don't know how to change a tire. It's probably

0:27:16.920 --> 0:27:19.679
<v Speaker 3>not something I should be proud of, but I just

0:27:19.960 --> 0:27:23.120
<v Speaker 3>someone else can do that. I want them to learn

0:27:23.359 --> 0:27:28.240
<v Speaker 3>the basics of reading and mathematics at school. That is

0:27:28.359 --> 0:27:31.000
<v Speaker 3>all I want them to do. The teachers have enough

0:27:31.040 --> 0:27:34.480
<v Speaker 3>to do, and those are the core skills that schools

0:27:34.520 --> 0:27:36.920
<v Speaker 3>are meant to impart. This to me is a no brainer.

0:27:37.040 --> 0:27:40.480
<v Speaker 3>I'm sorry, give me the best argument for why Lucy's wrong,

0:27:40.480 --> 0:27:41.600
<v Speaker 3>because I'm not saying it.

0:27:41.840 --> 0:27:45.520
<v Speaker 2>Our curriculum is obviously still based on what it was

0:27:45.960 --> 0:27:48.239
<v Speaker 2>years and years ago, and it sounds like from what

0:27:48.280 --> 0:27:51.600
<v Speaker 2>she's saying, the curriculum is bursting. Things are getting added,

0:27:51.760 --> 0:27:54.600
<v Speaker 2>but nothing is getting taken away. So is this just

0:27:54.640 --> 0:27:56.320
<v Speaker 2>a case of now that we kind of need to

0:27:56.359 --> 0:27:59.720
<v Speaker 2>look at what's in there? But it's where that line is, like,

0:27:59.800 --> 0:28:03.640
<v Speaker 2>do I think they should be teaching them empathy and manners?

0:28:03.920 --> 0:28:06.320
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely not. That is something that needs to be done

0:28:06.359 --> 0:28:08.760
<v Speaker 2>in the house. Would I mind if they were taught

0:28:08.800 --> 0:28:10.480
<v Speaker 2>tax because I don't understand it.

0:28:11.160 --> 0:28:13.680
<v Speaker 1>That would be great. I would love if tax got

0:28:13.680 --> 0:28:17.000
<v Speaker 1>added to the curriculum. Actually, that reminds me Stacy you

0:28:17.040 --> 0:28:19.439
<v Speaker 1>mentioned before about there are some parents. There are pockets

0:28:19.440 --> 0:28:22.520
<v Speaker 1>of parents who just expect schools to do everything. And

0:28:22.560 --> 0:28:24.919
<v Speaker 1>I know earlier we were talking about CEO parents that

0:28:25.000 --> 0:28:29.000
<v Speaker 1>kind of hire helpers to help with the boring, more

0:28:29.119 --> 0:28:32.000
<v Speaker 1>mundane parts of parenting, but I think there are pockets

0:28:32.040 --> 0:28:34.840
<v Speaker 1>of parents who don't do that and expect the schools

0:28:34.880 --> 0:28:37.119
<v Speaker 1>to take on that load. And it reminds me of

0:28:37.119 --> 0:28:38.680
<v Speaker 1>this article I read in the Herald s Son a

0:28:38.720 --> 0:28:41.880
<v Speaker 1>few months ago about how there's a spate of small

0:28:41.960 --> 0:28:44.280
<v Speaker 1>children coming to school, starting to school for the first

0:28:44.280 --> 0:28:48.280
<v Speaker 1>time who aren't toilet trained, and so teachers are now

0:28:48.320 --> 0:28:53.520
<v Speaker 1>expected to toilet train on top of introducing children to

0:28:53.560 --> 0:28:56.240
<v Speaker 1>a curriculum, which just seems kind of crazy.

0:28:56.680 --> 0:28:59.880
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I think that's right, and I think I see

0:29:00.080 --> 0:29:03.080
<v Speaker 3>why people are asking about it, because we clearly do

0:29:03.200 --> 0:29:05.840
<v Speaker 3>have a crisis when it comes to social skills as

0:29:05.880 --> 0:29:09.320
<v Speaker 3>a society. I remember my kids preschool, which was the

0:29:09.360 --> 0:29:14.120
<v Speaker 3>most magical place, had a school song that said we

0:29:14.240 --> 0:29:16.880
<v Speaker 3>are kind and we are cool, because of course cool

0:29:16.920 --> 0:29:20.040
<v Speaker 3>rhymes at school, and I always thought to myself that

0:29:20.520 --> 0:29:23.360
<v Speaker 3>is that not the best motto in life, to say

0:29:23.400 --> 0:29:26.400
<v Speaker 3>you're both kind and cool? I am, I am on

0:29:26.680 --> 0:29:29.160
<v Speaker 3>good days one of those things. I don't think I've

0:29:29.240 --> 0:29:32.120
<v Speaker 3>ever been both of them, but it's a great aspiration

0:29:32.360 --> 0:29:32.800
<v Speaker 3>to have.

0:29:33.360 --> 0:29:37.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think ones it's interesting what you were saying about.

0:29:37.560 --> 0:29:40.720
<v Speaker 2>You know, those things are learned at school, but is

0:29:40.760 --> 0:29:43.400
<v Speaker 2>it more that those things are practiced at school. Yeah, Like,

0:29:43.440 --> 0:29:45.720
<v Speaker 2>I think that's maybe where the line has changed now,

0:29:45.840 --> 0:29:48.600
<v Speaker 2>is that it's that there may be a certain subset

0:29:48.600 --> 0:29:50.560
<v Speaker 2>of parents that are just kind of leaving all of

0:29:50.560 --> 0:29:53.480
<v Speaker 2>it to the school. Because, as we've sag before, you know,

0:29:54.080 --> 0:29:56.720
<v Speaker 2>most parents are working, and so the time they get

0:29:56.720 --> 0:29:58.680
<v Speaker 2>with them is that time where they are doing those

0:29:58.720 --> 0:30:03.160
<v Speaker 2>non fun tasks, you know, so the things the time

0:30:03.240 --> 0:30:05.280
<v Speaker 2>we have with them now is so much smaller. The

0:30:05.320 --> 0:30:09.200
<v Speaker 2>time to be just enjoying and teaching them, you know,

0:30:09.400 --> 0:30:13.440
<v Speaker 2>random scenarios about how to show empathy like that's it's

0:30:13.520 --> 0:30:17.120
<v Speaker 2>just so much smaller now, and so it's been blurred

0:30:17.320 --> 0:30:19.600
<v Speaker 2>and we've just gone, Okay, well that'll they'll just figure

0:30:19.600 --> 0:30:21.400
<v Speaker 2>that out when they get there. They'll deal with conflict

0:30:21.440 --> 0:30:23.880
<v Speaker 2>resolution when they come up against it with a student

0:30:23.880 --> 0:30:24.360
<v Speaker 2>at school.

0:30:24.400 --> 0:30:27.960
<v Speaker 3>I think that's a great point and it's also about

0:30:28.520 --> 0:30:33.000
<v Speaker 3>I think the rise in private schools, the rise. Australia

0:30:33.040 --> 0:30:37.000
<v Speaker 3>has the highest private school attendance of basically any comparable country,

0:30:37.440 --> 0:30:39.959
<v Speaker 3>and we've talked on the show about rising school fees,

0:30:40.320 --> 0:30:45.440
<v Speaker 3>the idea of parents, parents thinking of schools as consumer products, yeah,

0:30:45.520 --> 0:30:48.680
<v Speaker 3>rather than places to educate their children and wanting more

0:30:48.760 --> 0:30:50.360
<v Speaker 3>quote unquote value from it.

0:30:50.640 --> 0:30:51.320
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think so.

0:30:51.400 --> 0:30:54.120
<v Speaker 2>And it shouldn't be the school's problem, but it inevitably

0:30:54.160 --> 0:30:57.760
<v Speaker 2>becomes that because all these amazing teachers obviously wants want

0:30:57.840 --> 0:31:00.440
<v Speaker 2>what's best for the students in their class. They want

0:31:00.440 --> 0:31:02.800
<v Speaker 2>them to feel nurtured and loved and understand how to

0:31:03.000 --> 0:31:06.520
<v Speaker 2>calm their bodies when they're upset, or how to make friends,

0:31:06.880 --> 0:31:09.560
<v Speaker 2>and so those things are inevitably bleeding into the time

0:31:09.720 --> 0:31:12.000
<v Speaker 2>and what they're trying to have to what they're having

0:31:12.040 --> 0:31:14.800
<v Speaker 2>to teach to these kids, and that's where you know,

0:31:14.960 --> 0:31:18.200
<v Speaker 2>maths and English is kind of probably getting shelved to

0:31:18.240 --> 0:31:18.760
<v Speaker 2>the wayside.

0:31:18.800 --> 0:31:21.600
<v Speaker 3>And also like, look, I might get some flak for this,

0:31:21.800 --> 0:31:27.240
<v Speaker 3>but I think there's something a little bit anti intellectual

0:31:27.600 --> 0:31:30.760
<v Speaker 3>about the idea that, in fact, what kids should be

0:31:30.840 --> 0:31:34.000
<v Speaker 3>learning at school is how to manage their money or

0:31:34.600 --> 0:31:37.200
<v Speaker 3>how to change a tire to use the other example,

0:31:37.680 --> 0:31:42.160
<v Speaker 3>because there is a strain in Australian life which devalues

0:31:43.000 --> 0:31:48.720
<v Speaker 3>more cerebral academic pursuits and it values sports people over scientists.

0:31:48.840 --> 0:31:51.200
<v Speaker 3>I'm not saying that's always the case. I'm just saying

0:31:51.240 --> 0:31:54.520
<v Speaker 3>that that's been a kind of thread in Australian life,

0:31:54.560 --> 0:31:59.520
<v Speaker 3>and sport is very important to Australian culture, undoubtedly, but

0:31:59.640 --> 0:32:01.800
<v Speaker 3>I think we could do more and are doing more

0:32:01.840 --> 0:32:04.400
<v Speaker 3>to lift up the people who work in labs or

0:32:04.440 --> 0:32:07.880
<v Speaker 3>the people who think in universities. And I just worry

0:32:07.920 --> 0:32:10.760
<v Speaker 3>that by sort of trying to squeeze out the bread

0:32:10.800 --> 0:32:14.920
<v Speaker 3>and butter of school, which is again maths and English.

0:32:15.000 --> 0:32:19.160
<v Speaker 3>In favor of all of these practical skills, we're undermining

0:32:19.280 --> 0:32:22.600
<v Speaker 3>the pursuit of knowledge in itself and how important that

0:32:22.760 --> 0:32:24.720
<v Speaker 3>is for a society.

0:32:25.040 --> 0:32:27.959
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And I mean we all know how hard it

0:32:28.000 --> 0:32:30.560
<v Speaker 2>is to get a child to listen to you, just generally,

0:32:30.880 --> 0:32:33.600
<v Speaker 2>to get them to listen about maths is pretty impossible.

0:32:33.680 --> 0:32:36.120
<v Speaker 2>So I would I would much rather that the amazing

0:32:36.160 --> 0:32:38.200
<v Speaker 2>teachers that know how to do that are the ones

0:32:38.200 --> 0:32:38.959
<v Speaker 2>that are teaching them.

0:32:39.000 --> 0:32:39.040
<v Speaker 4>That.

0:32:39.320 --> 0:32:42.520
<v Speaker 1>Yes, so true, and very true for music and arts

0:32:42.520 --> 0:32:46.960
<v Speaker 1>as well. That's a true. Yeah. All right, it's time

0:32:47.120 --> 0:32:50.840
<v Speaker 1>for recommendations. The little cosmic crisp at the end of

0:32:50.840 --> 0:32:53.760
<v Speaker 1>the show, the little refreshing bite of an apple that

0:32:54.160 --> 0:32:56.560
<v Speaker 1>we like to enjoy. Now, if you missed that reference,

0:32:56.600 --> 0:32:58.640
<v Speaker 1>that was from last week when Stacy's in the pocket

0:32:58.680 --> 0:33:01.480
<v Speaker 1>of Big Apple and has recommended we shun the Pink

0:33:01.560 --> 0:33:03.600
<v Speaker 1>Lady and the Granny Smith in favor of the new

0:33:03.760 --> 0:33:06.600
<v Speaker 1>tech bro of apples, the cosmic crisp, but in a good.

0:33:06.400 --> 0:33:08.360
<v Speaker 3>Way, like biting apples in a good way, not in

0:33:08.400 --> 0:33:12.400
<v Speaker 3>a like original sin Bible way. No, right, like apples

0:33:12.440 --> 0:33:13.840
<v Speaker 3>are good on this yes, like.

0:33:13.800 --> 0:33:17.280
<v Speaker 1>A wholesale way. We're pro apple. We are keeping the

0:33:17.320 --> 0:33:19.880
<v Speaker 1>doctor away away. Do you know it worked on me?

0:33:20.240 --> 0:33:22.400
<v Speaker 1>I actually bought the cosmic did you like? You know

0:33:23.000 --> 0:33:25.240
<v Speaker 1>you're not wrong, You're not wrong. It's a decent apple,

0:33:25.280 --> 0:33:28.800
<v Speaker 1>good apple. It's a hot apple. I saw it and

0:33:28.880 --> 0:33:32.320
<v Speaker 1>I laughed. I thought of you. Okay, Stacy, what have

0:33:32.360 --> 0:33:37.680
<v Speaker 1>you got to recommend this week? You're moving on to pears.

0:33:36.200 --> 0:33:40.040
<v Speaker 2>Another fruit for you know, apart from Eastern rosellas, which

0:33:40.120 --> 0:33:43.560
<v Speaker 2>is actually my record of the week. I've started using

0:33:43.600 --> 0:33:46.720
<v Speaker 2>this bit of a hair hack. So my hair as

0:33:46.840 --> 0:33:49.440
<v Speaker 2>dry as anything, and I started snapping off at the ends.

0:33:49.480 --> 0:33:52.640
<v Speaker 2>And when a friend in the office very helpfully said, well,

0:33:52.640 --> 0:33:55.280
<v Speaker 2>do you use a heat protectant? I said, I don't

0:33:55.280 --> 0:33:58.120
<v Speaker 2>want to be attacked like this. No, I don't, and

0:33:58.200 --> 0:34:02.680
<v Speaker 2>I don't want to. I then got another recommendation from

0:34:02.680 --> 0:34:04.640
<v Speaker 2>my friend. She was like, if it's dry and it's

0:34:04.680 --> 0:34:07.959
<v Speaker 2>brittle and it's not looking shiny anymore, use ha Hober

0:34:08.080 --> 0:34:10.520
<v Speaker 2>oil so you know, like you can you can buy

0:34:10.560 --> 0:34:13.640
<v Speaker 2>it from There's an Australian company, the Ha Hoober Company,

0:34:14.040 --> 0:34:16.040
<v Speaker 2>and they have it as well, just for people use

0:34:16.080 --> 0:34:18.280
<v Speaker 2>it on their skin. People use it on like dry

0:34:18.560 --> 0:34:21.840
<v Speaker 2>knuckles and elbows and all of the things. You just

0:34:21.920 --> 0:34:24.239
<v Speaker 2>do it like a hair mask. So just ladder your

0:34:24.280 --> 0:34:28.000
<v Speaker 2>hair in this oil. And I did it yesterday and

0:34:28.040 --> 0:34:31.920
<v Speaker 2>then did my hair today and the straightner it's the

0:34:32.040 --> 0:34:36.640
<v Speaker 2>smoothest you know, curling I've ever done of my hair.

0:34:36.880 --> 0:34:37.800
<v Speaker 3>Shine is whining.

0:34:37.960 --> 0:34:40.560
<v Speaker 1>It's shiny right, like it is shinier than it normally.

0:34:40.640 --> 0:34:43.480
<v Speaker 3>Is question for you. I've always wanted to try your

0:34:43.560 --> 0:34:47.959
<v Speaker 3>hober oil. Yeah, because you beauty talks about it a lot,

0:34:48.880 --> 0:34:54.040
<v Speaker 3>patron Saint of millennials Lee Ham specifically. But does it

0:34:54.120 --> 0:34:55.359
<v Speaker 3>smell nice? Is my quest?

0:34:55.400 --> 0:34:56.480
<v Speaker 1>Smells beautiful?

0:34:56.880 --> 0:34:59.879
<v Speaker 3>It's really it's really nice and nice smelling a yeah, and.

0:34:59.840 --> 0:35:01.880
<v Speaker 2>You you can get them. You can get them every

0:35:01.960 --> 0:35:03.799
<v Speaker 2>like they think. They sell it on the Iconic. They

0:35:03.800 --> 0:35:05.560
<v Speaker 2>sell it on Amazon, like you can get and it's

0:35:05.640 --> 0:35:07.800
<v Speaker 2>quite affordable, like it's not like you know some of

0:35:07.840 --> 0:35:10.120
<v Speaker 2>the mass a like twenty or thirty dollars. You could

0:35:10.200 --> 0:35:13.280
<v Speaker 2>get a little tub of Hobe oil for about eight bucks.

0:35:13.480 --> 0:35:16.480
<v Speaker 1>Does it make your pillowcase or oily at night?

0:35:17.360 --> 0:35:19.640
<v Speaker 2>Because I just left it on during the day, like

0:35:19.680 --> 0:35:21.480
<v Speaker 2>I worked from home and left it on during the

0:35:21.560 --> 0:35:22.839
<v Speaker 2>day and then washed it out.

0:35:23.520 --> 0:35:25.359
<v Speaker 1>So it was great. It was great.

0:35:25.440 --> 0:35:28.000
<v Speaker 2>I was worried it was gonna still look oily, but

0:35:28.040 --> 0:35:30.520
<v Speaker 2>because it's not heavy, it just comes straight out.

0:35:30.640 --> 0:35:32.320
<v Speaker 3>It's giving Kate Middleton, thank.

0:35:32.160 --> 0:35:34.879
<v Speaker 2>You so much. That is the biggest compliment you could

0:35:34.920 --> 0:35:36.920
<v Speaker 2>give me. What's yours, monsie.

0:35:37.200 --> 0:35:40.480
<v Speaker 1>If you've listened to today's show and thought I've had

0:35:40.520 --> 0:35:43.760
<v Speaker 1>it with all these parents out saucy everything, to wealthy

0:35:43.840 --> 0:35:47.359
<v Speaker 1>people and to the nannies and to the schools, I've

0:35:47.360 --> 0:35:49.120
<v Speaker 1>got the perfect show for you to watch that will

0:35:49.120 --> 0:35:53.800
<v Speaker 1>restore your faith in children and parenting. Okay, it's alone

0:35:54.040 --> 0:35:58.120
<v Speaker 1>season four on SBS. Now this show, let me tell you,

0:35:58.200 --> 0:36:01.000
<v Speaker 1>this is the best thing on TV right now. So

0:36:01.040 --> 0:36:03.400
<v Speaker 1>season four has just started. You're not too late to

0:36:04.080 --> 0:36:08.040
<v Speaker 1>start watching The Dropped out in the Wilderness. Yes, they

0:36:08.040 --> 0:36:10.719
<v Speaker 1>take ten Australians and they drop them in the middle

0:36:10.719 --> 0:36:13.560
<v Speaker 1>of nowhere and they say good luck. Last one standing wins.

0:36:13.960 --> 0:36:15.960
<v Speaker 1>And in the last three seasons they've put them in

0:36:16.000 --> 0:36:18.879
<v Speaker 1>like Tasmania and in Australia and it's been a bit

0:36:18.920 --> 0:36:21.000
<v Speaker 1>of a snooze. Okay, no word of a lie. I

0:36:21.000 --> 0:36:23.960
<v Speaker 1>love usps, but a bit of a snooze Fest. This year,

0:36:24.320 --> 0:36:29.320
<v Speaker 1>they've dropped them in the Arctic Circle. And the best

0:36:29.320 --> 0:36:33.799
<v Speaker 1>thing about it this cast they're amazing. They're so diverse.

0:36:34.239 --> 0:36:38.719
<v Speaker 1>Their skills are incredible. They've all been doing since they

0:36:38.719 --> 0:36:43.200
<v Speaker 1>were little kids, bushcraft and fishing and hunting, and they

0:36:43.280 --> 0:36:46.920
<v Speaker 1>just have all these incredible survivalist skills that they've been

0:36:46.960 --> 0:36:49.680
<v Speaker 1>taught by their parents or just like taught by their communities.

0:36:50.280 --> 0:36:55.160
<v Speaker 1>And this show is so gripping and so wonderful, and

0:36:55.200 --> 0:36:58.880
<v Speaker 1>it's best watched under your heated blanket with a hot milo,

0:36:59.440 --> 0:37:01.480
<v Speaker 1>in the comfort and warmth of your own home. And

0:37:01.480 --> 0:37:04.040
<v Speaker 1>then you have to yell things out, like put the

0:37:04.040 --> 0:37:07.520
<v Speaker 1>fishing line back in, you idiot. It's the most perfect

0:37:08.560 --> 0:37:09.680
<v Speaker 1>driving show to watch.

0:37:09.719 --> 0:37:10.279
<v Speaker 3>Do you watch it?

0:37:10.440 --> 0:37:13.480
<v Speaker 1>You're really great? Yes, And I watch some of it's

0:37:13.480 --> 0:37:15.440
<v Speaker 1>a bit gory for kids, Like there's a bit of

0:37:15.520 --> 0:37:17.719
<v Speaker 1>like actually it's not too bad. It's like they kill

0:37:17.719 --> 0:37:19.359
<v Speaker 1>a fish in the fish guts, you see the fish

0:37:19.440 --> 0:37:23.520
<v Speaker 1>guts and stuff like that. And there are some themes

0:37:23.600 --> 0:37:25.520
<v Speaker 1>that it would be best to watch it with your

0:37:25.600 --> 0:37:28.040
<v Speaker 1>kids in case there's there's some kind of like trauma.

0:37:28.080 --> 0:37:30.279
<v Speaker 1>The people get emotional out in the bush and when

0:37:30.360 --> 0:37:33.839
<v Speaker 1>nature starts to speak to them, but it is. It's

0:37:33.880 --> 0:37:35.600
<v Speaker 1>the best thing on TV right now. Guys, get on

0:37:35.960 --> 0:37:36.839
<v Speaker 1>a loan season four.

0:37:37.320 --> 0:37:39.960
<v Speaker 3>Hopefully this will get my kids to stop watching what's

0:37:40.000 --> 0:37:43.080
<v Speaker 3>that that YouTube star who's on Netflix now?

0:37:43.560 --> 0:37:46.520
<v Speaker 1>Oh Kalish oh oh Saily?

0:37:48.200 --> 0:37:50.240
<v Speaker 3>Oh god, we're going to get on alone?

0:37:50.440 --> 0:37:51.160
<v Speaker 1>Yeah yeah.

0:37:51.960 --> 0:37:55.279
<v Speaker 3>My wreck this week is an article. This one is

0:37:55.320 --> 0:37:58.440
<v Speaker 3>in the New York Times magazine and it's called My

0:37:58.600 --> 0:38:03.120
<v Speaker 3>Relationship with My Brother Fraught? Could Sibling Therapy Help Us?

0:38:03.400 --> 0:38:06.760
<v Speaker 3>It's by a writer called Daniel Bergner, and it delves

0:38:07.080 --> 0:38:11.920
<v Speaker 3>into why our relationships with our siblings are both so

0:38:12.120 --> 0:38:17.160
<v Speaker 3>precious and so complicated, And it tests out whether or

0:38:17.239 --> 0:38:19.680
<v Speaker 3>not if you go into therapy later in life, can

0:38:19.680 --> 0:38:23.160
<v Speaker 3>that help you and your sibling come closer together? Sort

0:38:23.160 --> 0:38:26.800
<v Speaker 3>of like marriage therapy, except for siblings. It's about Daniel,

0:38:26.920 --> 0:38:29.520
<v Speaker 3>the author and his brother Bob. They're sixteen months apart.

0:38:30.000 --> 0:38:32.279
<v Speaker 3>Growing up, Daniel was very jealous of Bob. He thought

0:38:32.280 --> 0:38:34.640
<v Speaker 3>he was better looking, he thought he was a better athlete.

0:38:34.960 --> 0:38:37.719
<v Speaker 3>He felt that they were locked in an undefined but

0:38:37.880 --> 0:38:41.560
<v Speaker 3>dire competition, and that I was always at risk of losing.

0:38:42.480 --> 0:38:45.360
<v Speaker 3>They grew apart as adults, but then they came together

0:38:45.400 --> 0:38:48.359
<v Speaker 3>again to talk about their childhoods with a therapist and

0:38:48.400 --> 0:38:51.840
<v Speaker 3>what they realize about how each other view the same events.

0:38:51.880 --> 0:38:56.719
<v Speaker 3>It's really astonishing. Basically, Daniel realizes that Bob always felt

0:38:56.760 --> 0:38:59.319
<v Speaker 3>bullied by him. So even as Daniel was walking around

0:38:59.320 --> 0:39:01.520
<v Speaker 3>feeling in out of quit next to his brother, his

0:39:01.640 --> 0:39:05.640
<v Speaker 3>brother was feeling intimidated and even threatened by him and

0:39:05.680 --> 0:39:09.040
<v Speaker 3>his behavior. And he didn't realize that. It's such a

0:39:09.080 --> 0:39:13.520
<v Speaker 3>moving piece. It's sort of like underscores, like how childhood

0:39:13.600 --> 0:39:17.200
<v Speaker 3>is this incredibly formative time in shaping all of your

0:39:17.239 --> 0:39:21.200
<v Speaker 3>attitudes to basically everything. No pressure parents, but also if

0:39:21.239 --> 0:39:24.719
<v Speaker 3>you are a sibling, if you parents siblings, this is

0:39:24.840 --> 0:39:26.320
<v Speaker 3>an absolute muster read.

0:39:26.320 --> 0:39:29.000
<v Speaker 1>Thank you so much. What a breadth, What a breadth

0:39:29.040 --> 0:39:31.439
<v Speaker 1>we've brought to you today. Thank you for spending time

0:39:31.440 --> 0:39:34.520
<v Speaker 1>with us on your Saturday or your Sunday, wherever you're listening,

0:39:34.719 --> 0:39:37.840
<v Speaker 1>mowing the lawn, folding a laundry, driving to work. I

0:39:37.880 --> 0:39:40.200
<v Speaker 1>hear a lot of people listen on their work commute

0:39:40.480 --> 0:39:43.759
<v Speaker 1>on the weekend. That's us for this week. Eyes to

0:39:43.800 --> 0:39:47.560
<v Speaker 1>the sky, guys, look for those Eastern rosellas and think

0:39:47.600 --> 0:39:51.800
<v Speaker 1>about the Western ones who have been shunned and to

0:39:51.840 --> 0:39:56.120
<v Speaker 1>go to therapy for that, yes, sibling bird therapy. All right,

0:39:56.160 --> 0:39:59.959
<v Speaker 1>we'll see you next week. Mummie acknowledges the traditional owner

0:40:00.160 --> 0:40:02.400
<v Speaker 1>of the land on which we have recorded this podcast.