1 00:00:05,799 --> 00:00:09,599 Speaker 1: You're listening to I'm Mom with Me a podcast. I'm 2 00:00:09,599 --> 00:00:13,399 Speaker 1: happy because I'm alive, so I'm pretty happier. Yes, yeah, 3 00:00:13,519 --> 00:00:14,199 Speaker 1: I'm happy. 4 00:00:14,239 --> 00:00:15,879 Speaker 2: I'm not I'm exactly happy. 5 00:00:16,559 --> 00:00:22,759 Speaker 1: Yeah, I would say in general, I'm pretty happy. Welcome 6 00:00:22,799 --> 00:00:26,039 Speaker 1: back everyone. I'm a Shandy Dante and this is but 7 00:00:26,159 --> 00:00:28,399 Speaker 1: Are You Happy? A Mom and Me a podcast for 8 00:00:28,519 --> 00:00:31,239 Speaker 1: people who cope with their problems by pretending they don't 9 00:00:31,239 --> 00:00:33,519 Speaker 1: exist for the day or even till next week. 10 00:00:33,799 --> 00:00:37,839 Speaker 3: And I'm clinical psychologist, doctor Anastagia Herunas. I've got a 11 00:00:37,879 --> 00:00:39,439 Speaker 3: couple of questions for you listeners. 12 00:00:40,039 --> 00:00:43,599 Speaker 2: Are you happy? I mean really happy? 13 00:00:43,759 --> 00:00:43,879 Speaker 1: Like? 14 00:00:44,079 --> 00:00:46,479 Speaker 2: Does the feeling come in waves? Is it there all 15 00:00:46,519 --> 00:00:49,839 Speaker 2: the time? Does it get drowned out by other emotions? 16 00:00:50,119 --> 00:00:54,159 Speaker 3: Do you know what contributes to the feeling of happiness? 17 00:00:54,159 --> 00:00:57,159 Speaker 1: Some big reflective questions we're asking on this episode. And 18 00:00:57,559 --> 00:00:59,839 Speaker 1: also in this episode, we're going to be unpacking why 19 00:00:59,959 --> 00:01:04,119 Speaker 1: happiness is so fleeting, why contentment matters more than you think, 20 00:01:04,359 --> 00:01:07,039 Speaker 1: and how a simple framework can dial up the joy 21 00:01:07,039 --> 00:01:12,639 Speaker 1: in your life. Let's get into it. So it's funny, 22 00:01:12,719 --> 00:01:16,039 Speaker 1: right because our podcast is literally called but Are You Happy? 23 00:01:16,079 --> 00:01:19,559 Speaker 1: But we've never actually unpacked what is happiness. 24 00:01:20,519 --> 00:01:22,119 Speaker 2: So are you happy? 25 00:01:22,599 --> 00:01:25,439 Speaker 1: I find it's a hard question. It's a hard question 26 00:01:25,479 --> 00:01:27,719 Speaker 1: to answer. It's a yes and no. Yeah. 27 00:01:27,839 --> 00:01:29,999 Speaker 2: It's like it's like when someone says how are you and. 28 00:01:29,959 --> 00:01:32,959 Speaker 1: You're like, well, it's like what kind of how long 29 00:01:32,999 --> 00:01:33,399 Speaker 1: have you got? 30 00:01:33,519 --> 00:01:33,719 Speaker 3: Yeah? 31 00:01:33,799 --> 00:01:36,479 Speaker 1: Literally, I always just say I feel in all of it? 32 00:01:36,719 --> 00:01:41,559 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, happiness. We've got the stickers on our 33 00:01:41,679 --> 00:01:43,279 Speaker 3: on our laptops, right, And I was on the train 34 00:01:43,399 --> 00:01:45,719 Speaker 3: doing some work yeah, and the question says, but are 35 00:01:45,759 --> 00:01:47,359 Speaker 3: you happy? On my laptop and the lady on the 36 00:01:47,399 --> 00:01:49,039 Speaker 3: train came up to me and she goes. 37 00:01:48,839 --> 00:01:51,199 Speaker 2: Are you happy? And I was like, and I forgot 38 00:01:51,239 --> 00:01:54,959 Speaker 2: the sticker was there. I was like what. I was like, Oh, yes, yes, 39 00:01:55,039 --> 00:01:56,159 Speaker 2: thank you. I hope you are. 40 00:01:57,239 --> 00:02:00,639 Speaker 1: That is so funny. It is such a direct question though, 41 00:02:00,679 --> 00:02:03,879 Speaker 1: because it's big Are you happy? 42 00:02:05,879 --> 00:02:07,359 Speaker 2: I think so, yeah, that's what I mean. 43 00:02:07,439 --> 00:02:10,359 Speaker 1: It doesn't mean still a bit of doubt. You're like, ah, 44 00:02:10,479 --> 00:02:11,239 Speaker 1: I think I am. 45 00:02:11,639 --> 00:02:14,079 Speaker 3: I think if you say it's complex, right, there's a 46 00:02:14,119 --> 00:02:15,519 Speaker 3: lot of facets to it. And I guess that's why 47 00:02:15,519 --> 00:02:16,759 Speaker 3: we're doing an episode on it to. 48 00:02:16,759 --> 00:02:17,399 Speaker 2: Unpack it all. 49 00:02:17,519 --> 00:02:22,399 Speaker 1: Yeah, totally totally. So I guess, like, what is happiness. 50 00:02:23,199 --> 00:02:27,559 Speaker 3: Well, good, good starting point. Yeah, and I think we're 51 00:02:27,559 --> 00:02:29,599 Speaker 3: going to start with some myth busting first off. Let's 52 00:02:29,639 --> 00:02:31,959 Speaker 3: do it because a lot of people talk about happiness 53 00:02:32,119 --> 00:02:37,479 Speaker 3: as being a feeling an emotion, right, you know, happy, sad, angry, anxious. 54 00:02:37,559 --> 00:02:38,479 Speaker 2: For core emotions. 55 00:02:39,359 --> 00:02:42,799 Speaker 3: Well, you know, the researchers can't even agree on this 56 00:02:42,839 --> 00:02:45,759 Speaker 3: because apparently there's debate as to whether or not happiness 57 00:02:45,799 --> 00:02:49,799 Speaker 3: is actually a feeling or not. There are schools of 58 00:02:49,839 --> 00:02:53,119 Speaker 3: thought out there that suggests that happiness is not an emotion. 59 00:02:53,959 --> 00:02:54,319 Speaker 1: Yeah. 60 00:02:54,439 --> 00:02:57,079 Speaker 2: I feel like this is going to be true to. 61 00:02:57,119 --> 00:02:59,999 Speaker 3: Some people, right Like, Yeah, happiness is not necessarily an emotion. 62 00:03:00,159 --> 00:03:01,439 Speaker 2: According to some researchers. 63 00:03:01,679 --> 00:03:06,599 Speaker 3: It's more of a state of being, and it encompasses 64 00:03:07,079 --> 00:03:10,399 Speaker 3: our thoughts, our feelings, and our actions. So people often 65 00:03:10,399 --> 00:03:13,319 Speaker 3: talk about happiness is something that we can create in 66 00:03:13,359 --> 00:03:17,119 Speaker 3: our life with intention, based on how we choose to think, 67 00:03:17,519 --> 00:03:20,879 Speaker 3: the actions we choose to take to cultivate happiness, but 68 00:03:20,919 --> 00:03:24,719 Speaker 3: that the emotional experience is perhaps an amalgamation of different 69 00:03:24,759 --> 00:03:30,759 Speaker 3: things like joy, contentment, satisfaction, those kinds of feelings. 70 00:03:30,919 --> 00:03:35,039 Speaker 1: M Wow, that's so interesting that they're debating that it 71 00:03:35,039 --> 00:03:38,639 Speaker 1: may not actually be an emotion because it seems pretty 72 00:03:38,719 --> 00:03:40,919 Speaker 1: simple that it is an emotion, like it is something 73 00:03:40,959 --> 00:03:43,279 Speaker 1: we feel, but we don't feel it all the time. 74 00:03:43,319 --> 00:03:45,159 Speaker 1: It's like a fleeting state, right. 75 00:03:45,039 --> 00:03:47,079 Speaker 3: Yes, yes, yes, And I guess it's how it's come 76 00:03:47,119 --> 00:03:48,959 Speaker 3: into our day to day dialogue. 77 00:03:48,999 --> 00:03:49,119 Speaker 1: Right. 78 00:03:49,159 --> 00:03:51,359 Speaker 3: We talk about happiness as being a feeling in the 79 00:03:51,399 --> 00:03:54,439 Speaker 3: same way as sadness or anxiety. Yeah, but it's interesting 80 00:03:54,519 --> 00:03:56,239 Speaker 3: to kind of think of this difference of it being 81 00:03:56,279 --> 00:03:59,159 Speaker 3: an emotion versus a state of being. 82 00:04:00,119 --> 00:04:03,439 Speaker 1: Yeah, totally. And it's interesting because I feel like happiness 83 00:04:03,519 --> 00:04:07,279 Speaker 1: it's a very straightfa feeling. That's what I've always thought of, 84 00:04:07,319 --> 00:04:10,159 Speaker 1: but there are many nuances to it, and it gets 85 00:04:10,199 --> 00:04:14,839 Speaker 1: me thinking about kind of the evolution of the term happiness, 86 00:04:14,879 --> 00:04:17,359 Speaker 1: Like has it changed the definition over the years. 87 00:04:18,679 --> 00:04:22,959 Speaker 3: Well, happiness has certainly been a key source of study, 88 00:04:23,239 --> 00:04:26,719 Speaker 3: let's say, from when we think about the ancient philosophers 89 00:04:27,319 --> 00:04:31,159 Speaker 3: to nowadays people studying kind of this concept of happiness, and. 90 00:04:31,079 --> 00:04:33,919 Speaker 2: We can definitely look to I find it quite. 91 00:04:33,799 --> 00:04:36,839 Speaker 3: Interesting to look to sort of the old philosophical ways 92 00:04:36,839 --> 00:04:39,759 Speaker 3: of thinking about happiness, because I guess philosophers were almost 93 00:04:39,799 --> 00:04:40,959 Speaker 3: like the first psychologists. 94 00:04:40,959 --> 00:04:41,439 Speaker 1: That's true. 95 00:04:41,479 --> 00:04:42,359 Speaker 2: I guess in a way. 96 00:04:43,479 --> 00:04:44,479 Speaker 1: It's a nice way to see it. 97 00:04:44,599 --> 00:04:46,839 Speaker 3: Yeah, And so we think about sort of like the Stoics, 98 00:04:46,879 --> 00:04:50,559 Speaker 3: but also Aristotle, you know, put a lot of a 99 00:04:50,679 --> 00:04:54,879 Speaker 3: kind of thought into this concept of happiness and different 100 00:04:54,959 --> 00:04:59,119 Speaker 3: types of happiness. So some of the learnings we have 101 00:04:59,159 --> 00:05:03,239 Speaker 3: from Aristotle or around you tomonic happiness versus hedonic happiness. 102 00:05:03,319 --> 00:05:07,239 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, us more happiness. 103 00:05:07,959 --> 00:05:12,999 Speaker 3: So you domonic happiness is what I would kind of say, 104 00:05:13,119 --> 00:05:17,439 Speaker 3: feels more like deep satisfaction. That's the kind of internal 105 00:05:17,479 --> 00:05:20,479 Speaker 3: experience we would relate it to, and it comes from 106 00:05:20,679 --> 00:05:23,959 Speaker 3: living a life that is consistent and aligned with our values. 107 00:05:24,279 --> 00:05:28,559 Speaker 3: That feeling of being deeply connected to meaning, to purpose 108 00:05:29,119 --> 00:05:32,599 Speaker 3: and to self actualization, you know, discovering who I am 109 00:05:32,959 --> 00:05:35,439 Speaker 3: as a person and being able to actualize that in 110 00:05:35,439 --> 00:05:39,239 Speaker 3: the World's that's related to Youmonic happiness. 111 00:05:39,799 --> 00:05:41,119 Speaker 2: Hedonic happiness, on the. 112 00:05:41,119 --> 00:05:43,199 Speaker 3: Other hand, is the feeling I get when I eat 113 00:05:43,239 --> 00:05:49,519 Speaker 3: chocolate cake or donuts or donuts donuts, big difference, different feeling. 114 00:05:49,679 --> 00:05:53,119 Speaker 3: It's very short term, short lived, and it's driven by 115 00:05:53,199 --> 00:05:57,639 Speaker 3: different pathways in the brain. That hedonic happiness is dopamine driven. 116 00:05:57,679 --> 00:06:00,079 Speaker 3: That's why it's very short lived. We get it from 117 00:06:00,679 --> 00:06:04,119 Speaker 3: doing some online shopping, we get it from eating tasty treats, 118 00:06:04,119 --> 00:06:07,839 Speaker 3: we get it likes on social media. Yeah, it's often 119 00:06:07,999 --> 00:06:12,839 Speaker 3: quite in contrast with you, tomonic happiness, because the things 120 00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:15,879 Speaker 3: that give us that short term don't mean driven happiness 121 00:06:15,999 --> 00:06:18,999 Speaker 3: are in conflict or in contrast to those things that 122 00:06:19,039 --> 00:06:19,599 Speaker 3: are more. 123 00:06:19,439 --> 00:06:20,599 Speaker 2: Meaningful to us in life. 124 00:06:20,719 --> 00:06:21,079 Speaker 3: Hmmm. 125 00:06:21,639 --> 00:06:24,519 Speaker 1: It's interesting because as you're talking about it, it's getting 126 00:06:24,599 --> 00:06:28,039 Speaker 1: me reflecting on, oh, what is my definition of happiness, 127 00:06:28,039 --> 00:06:30,359 Speaker 1: because we're all probably tuning in and we probably all 128 00:06:30,399 --> 00:06:32,479 Speaker 1: have different definitions of what that is. And I think 129 00:06:32,519 --> 00:06:36,519 Speaker 1: for me, I've gone on such a journey with what 130 00:06:36,719 --> 00:06:39,039 Speaker 1: actually happiness means to me, and I think what I've 131 00:06:39,079 --> 00:06:41,599 Speaker 1: noticed is that when there's things that are in my control, 132 00:06:42,999 --> 00:06:44,799 Speaker 1: I feel like I'm able to you know, you're talking 133 00:06:44,799 --> 00:06:47,719 Speaker 1: about contentment and feeling satisfied. I feel like I can 134 00:06:47,799 --> 00:06:50,519 Speaker 1: exercise that more. But when I start to base my 135 00:06:50,679 --> 00:06:55,479 Speaker 1: worth or my identity on temporary things like wealth or 136 00:06:55,599 --> 00:06:59,759 Speaker 1: people or social media likes, it's it can feel really 137 00:06:59,799 --> 00:07:03,399 Speaker 1: depleting because I know, for me personally, like an area 138 00:07:03,399 --> 00:07:05,519 Speaker 1: of my life that I a lot of pride in 139 00:07:05,599 --> 00:07:08,399 Speaker 1: and my identity was my career. And you know, I 140 00:07:08,439 --> 00:07:11,879 Speaker 1: wanted to run a successful business or hit cert of milestones, 141 00:07:11,919 --> 00:07:14,959 Speaker 1: and then I would hit those milestones and then it 142 00:07:15,039 --> 00:07:17,639 Speaker 1: was this feeling of emptiness. It was like that short 143 00:07:17,759 --> 00:07:22,239 Speaker 1: term dopamine hit because I've worked so hard to get 144 00:07:22,279 --> 00:07:24,239 Speaker 1: to this moment, and then it's a bit of a 145 00:07:24,239 --> 00:07:27,159 Speaker 1: wig out because it gets you questioning, oh, what even 146 00:07:27,399 --> 00:07:29,759 Speaker 1: actually makes me feel fulfilled in life. 147 00:07:30,079 --> 00:07:32,639 Speaker 3: So it's so interesting because as you're saying that, I'm 148 00:07:32,639 --> 00:07:38,399 Speaker 3: thinking about the difference between outcomes versus process. And so 149 00:07:38,639 --> 00:07:41,439 Speaker 3: you talk about running a successful business and having some 150 00:07:41,479 --> 00:07:43,519 Speaker 3: sort of outcome that you're looking to achieve, and when 151 00:07:43,559 --> 00:07:46,599 Speaker 3: we get that achievement, we have the dopamine that's activated 152 00:07:46,639 --> 00:07:50,359 Speaker 3: and that short term satisfaction that comes with that. However, 153 00:07:50,599 --> 00:07:54,319 Speaker 3: outcomes are often things that are somewhat out of our control. 154 00:07:54,319 --> 00:07:55,719 Speaker 2: They can be taken away from us. 155 00:07:55,839 --> 00:07:58,719 Speaker 3: So, you know, a business can be successful, but then 156 00:07:58,799 --> 00:08:01,159 Speaker 3: due to kind of I don't know, economic pressures, it 157 00:08:01,239 --> 00:08:05,399 Speaker 3: might no longer be the case. But the process is 158 00:08:05,439 --> 00:08:09,439 Speaker 3: often linked to internal character traits. So the hard work 159 00:08:09,479 --> 00:08:12,359 Speaker 3: that it took you to build a business, the discipline 160 00:08:12,359 --> 00:08:15,119 Speaker 3: and the dedication, your ability to connect with people to 161 00:08:15,159 --> 00:08:18,279 Speaker 3: build the business, all these things the character traits that 162 00:08:18,359 --> 00:08:21,359 Speaker 3: you possess and no one can take those away from us. 163 00:08:21,359 --> 00:08:23,879 Speaker 1: I feel like, you know, people tuning in or whoever 164 00:08:23,879 --> 00:08:26,199 Speaker 1: felt led to listen to this episode is you know, 165 00:08:26,279 --> 00:08:30,239 Speaker 1: we're all seeking happiness, but it feels like is happiness 166 00:08:30,239 --> 00:08:30,919 Speaker 1: even the goal? 167 00:08:32,159 --> 00:08:33,159 Speaker 2: I would say not really. 168 00:08:33,439 --> 00:08:38,079 Speaker 3: The experience of happiness is often fleeting. It comes and goes, 169 00:08:38,239 --> 00:08:42,439 Speaker 3: and it's one piece of the emotional spectrum within which 170 00:08:42,439 --> 00:08:45,079 Speaker 3: we exist, and we need to feel the full range 171 00:08:45,079 --> 00:08:48,879 Speaker 3: of emotions to have an emotionally full and kind of 172 00:08:48,919 --> 00:08:53,799 Speaker 3: satisfying life. What the research tells us is that happiness 173 00:08:53,919 --> 00:08:57,799 Speaker 3: shouldn't be the goal. What we're aiming for is contentment 174 00:08:58,159 --> 00:08:59,559 Speaker 3: and satisfaction in life. 175 00:08:59,839 --> 00:09:01,239 Speaker 2: So that's the difference. 176 00:09:00,839 --> 00:09:05,039 Speaker 3: Between that really kind of joyful feeling in the moment 177 00:09:05,879 --> 00:09:09,319 Speaker 3: versus that bigger picture sense of being able to sit back, 178 00:09:10,079 --> 00:09:11,719 Speaker 3: look at my life and go. 179 00:09:14,679 --> 00:09:17,359 Speaker 2: Like, you know what, my life's all right? 180 00:09:17,559 --> 00:09:21,959 Speaker 3: Yes, that feeling of contentment and satisfaction on a big picture, 181 00:09:22,479 --> 00:09:26,519 Speaker 3: that's the goal we want when we are sixty seventy eighty, 182 00:09:26,639 --> 00:09:29,359 Speaker 3: ninety one hundred, however long we live to, we want 183 00:09:29,359 --> 00:09:31,119 Speaker 3: to be able to at that point in life look 184 00:09:31,199 --> 00:09:33,879 Speaker 3: back and go, you know, what that was pretty good. 185 00:09:34,159 --> 00:09:36,439 Speaker 1: Yeah, oh, I love that. It's kind of like you're 186 00:09:36,479 --> 00:09:38,359 Speaker 1: at the top of a mountain. I'm a visual person 187 00:09:38,439 --> 00:09:40,319 Speaker 1: if you haven't gathered, but it's like your top of 188 00:09:40,359 --> 00:09:42,799 Speaker 1: the mountain and you look down at all like all 189 00:09:42,839 --> 00:09:45,279 Speaker 1: that's been created throughout your life, and I think it's 190 00:09:45,319 --> 00:09:48,159 Speaker 1: just it's really nice because I think with happiness too, 191 00:09:48,239 --> 00:09:51,159 Speaker 1: and this is you know, obviously not from a psychological perspective, 192 00:09:51,239 --> 00:09:54,759 Speaker 1: but I feel like it is the embracing of every moment, 193 00:09:54,879 --> 00:09:57,759 Speaker 1: like even the hard times, like really like for me, 194 00:09:57,959 --> 00:10:00,799 Speaker 1: it's fully allowing myself to feel the grief or feel 195 00:10:00,799 --> 00:10:04,239 Speaker 1: the anger. And I think once you get through that tunnel, 196 00:10:04,639 --> 00:10:05,919 Speaker 1: you get to the other side, and then you do 197 00:10:05,999 --> 00:10:08,599 Speaker 1: have that moment where like I know for me, I reflect, 198 00:10:08,639 --> 00:10:11,159 Speaker 1: I'm like, oh wow, I actually made it through, or 199 00:10:11,199 --> 00:10:13,759 Speaker 1: you know, and there is that feeling of feeling content 200 00:10:13,879 --> 00:10:17,199 Speaker 1: about how you handle things, or you know, getting to 201 00:10:17,319 --> 00:10:20,359 Speaker 1: a place of compassion for yourself or the mistakes you 202 00:10:20,479 --> 00:10:23,559 Speaker 1: made or the failures or you know. It's it's important 203 00:10:23,599 --> 00:10:24,759 Speaker 1: to bring that perspective. 204 00:10:24,999 --> 00:10:25,759 Speaker 2: It's all of it. 205 00:10:25,919 --> 00:10:28,199 Speaker 3: The contentment is being able to look at all of it, 206 00:10:28,919 --> 00:10:33,719 Speaker 3: even the hard times, and feel content with how we 207 00:10:34,159 --> 00:10:37,399 Speaker 3: acted or how we handled situations or how we came 208 00:10:37,439 --> 00:10:37,799 Speaker 3: through it. 209 00:10:37,999 --> 00:10:40,679 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm just like I'm featuring it now, like when 210 00:10:40,919 --> 00:10:43,599 Speaker 1: I do. Eventually I'm on my deathbed about to have 211 00:10:43,679 --> 00:10:47,839 Speaker 1: my last few breaths, be like, nailed it, nailed it, 212 00:10:47,999 --> 00:10:48,239 Speaker 1: you know. 213 00:10:48,839 --> 00:10:50,399 Speaker 2: I want that confidence in life. 214 00:10:53,279 --> 00:10:56,239 Speaker 3: But the thing I like about this idea of contentment 215 00:10:56,279 --> 00:10:59,399 Speaker 3: being the goal is that the research backs it up 216 00:10:59,399 --> 00:11:02,319 Speaker 3: and tells us that values is the way there. If 217 00:11:02,359 --> 00:11:05,399 Speaker 3: we live a life that is consistent with what our 218 00:11:05,479 --> 00:11:08,639 Speaker 3: values are and what our value structures tell us, then 219 00:11:08,679 --> 00:11:11,199 Speaker 3: that's a pathway to feeling contentment. 220 00:11:10,759 --> 00:11:13,079 Speaker 2: In life and feeling satisfied in life. 221 00:11:13,119 --> 00:11:15,399 Speaker 3: It doesn't mean that everything in life goes well or 222 00:11:15,399 --> 00:11:18,039 Speaker 3: that everything in life is just happy times and all positive. 223 00:11:18,599 --> 00:11:21,039 Speaker 3: It means that through the good, the bad, and the ugly, 224 00:11:21,399 --> 00:11:24,519 Speaker 3: we were able to lean on our value system as 225 00:11:24,559 --> 00:11:27,359 Speaker 3: a guide for how to handle those scenarios. 226 00:11:27,519 --> 00:11:27,799 Speaker 1: Yeah. 227 00:11:27,879 --> 00:11:28,359 Speaker 2: I love that. 228 00:11:29,159 --> 00:11:31,119 Speaker 1: So at a stage, I feel like you know a 229 00:11:31,119 --> 00:11:33,839 Speaker 1: thing or two about the brain. Disclaimer, you are the 230 00:11:33,879 --> 00:11:37,559 Speaker 1: author of the dopamine brain, So can you tell us 231 00:11:37,599 --> 00:11:40,159 Speaker 1: what's going on in our brain when we're you know, 232 00:11:40,399 --> 00:11:41,759 Speaker 1: feeling things like happiness? 233 00:11:42,119 --> 00:11:44,159 Speaker 2: Yeah, happy too? 234 00:11:47,679 --> 00:11:48,559 Speaker 1: I'll tell you about two this. 235 00:11:49,119 --> 00:11:51,959 Speaker 3: We'll talk neuroscience, but we'll also talk a bit about 236 00:11:51,959 --> 00:11:54,799 Speaker 3: like biology and genetics, because I think both are important here. 237 00:11:55,279 --> 00:11:59,719 Speaker 3: So the neuroscience and the brain first up. There are 238 00:11:59,879 --> 00:12:04,719 Speaker 3: a number of different neurotransmitters, so essentially chemical messages and 239 00:12:04,799 --> 00:12:08,199 Speaker 3: hormones in our brain and body that can contribute to 240 00:12:08,359 --> 00:12:14,559 Speaker 3: different feelings of happiness, joy, pleasure, the whole kind of 241 00:12:14,559 --> 00:12:16,999 Speaker 3: gamut of feelings that kind of fall under this umbrella 242 00:12:17,119 --> 00:12:17,679 Speaker 3: of happiness. 243 00:12:17,719 --> 00:12:18,119 Speaker 2: I guess. 244 00:12:18,639 --> 00:12:20,919 Speaker 3: So one of them we've already talked about. It's dopamine. 245 00:12:20,959 --> 00:12:25,759 Speaker 3: So dopamine is related to our reward system. It's the 246 00:12:25,839 --> 00:12:29,079 Speaker 3: chocolate cake, it's the donut. Example, when I do something 247 00:12:29,119 --> 00:12:33,919 Speaker 3: that provides me with pleasure, we feel that pleasure because. 248 00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:35,119 Speaker 2: Dopamine is activated. 249 00:12:35,799 --> 00:12:37,399 Speaker 3: So when I eat the doughnut, when I take that 250 00:12:37,439 --> 00:12:40,399 Speaker 3: first bite into the donut, dope means firing in my brain. 251 00:12:40,479 --> 00:12:42,959 Speaker 2: It's having a party. It's going yes, yum, we love this. 252 00:12:43,119 --> 00:12:43,559 Speaker 2: Eat more. 253 00:12:44,439 --> 00:12:47,439 Speaker 3: That lasts for about three four bites and then I'm 254 00:12:47,439 --> 00:12:49,479 Speaker 3: probably thinking about the next thing because it's a very 255 00:12:49,519 --> 00:12:55,479 Speaker 3: short lived experience. This also creates the feeling of wanting more. So, 256 00:12:55,599 --> 00:12:58,879 Speaker 3: dopamine is what motivates us to go down to the cafe, 257 00:12:59,119 --> 00:13:01,759 Speaker 3: walk in by the doughnut, and then eat it. So 258 00:13:01,879 --> 00:13:06,919 Speaker 3: dopamine is involved in motive us towards pleasure and. 259 00:13:06,879 --> 00:13:08,999 Speaker 2: The experience of pleasure. So that's one. 260 00:13:09,119 --> 00:13:09,599 Speaker 1: That's one. 261 00:13:10,279 --> 00:13:14,239 Speaker 2: We've then also got oxytocin. The warm and fuzzies. 262 00:13:14,919 --> 00:13:18,319 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's nice. We like woman fuzzies. 263 00:13:19,919 --> 00:13:22,199 Speaker 3: This is the feeling you get when you give someone 264 00:13:22,239 --> 00:13:23,159 Speaker 3: you love a hug. 265 00:13:23,639 --> 00:13:26,319 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's the warm and fuzzy feeling. It feels good. 266 00:13:26,639 --> 00:13:31,719 Speaker 3: Oxytocin is designed to help us with social bonding. Oxytocin 267 00:13:31,799 --> 00:13:36,319 Speaker 3: is activated through childbirth, when mothers give birth to their children, 268 00:13:36,399 --> 00:13:40,159 Speaker 3: during breastfeeding, during sex, you know, anything that's got kind 269 00:13:40,159 --> 00:13:43,799 Speaker 3: of physical touch to it helps activate oxytocin, And from 270 00:13:43,799 --> 00:13:47,039 Speaker 3: an evolutionary perspective, this is designed to help us bond 271 00:13:47,119 --> 00:13:47,799 Speaker 3: with one another. 272 00:13:48,239 --> 00:13:49,479 Speaker 2: But it also feels good. 273 00:13:50,079 --> 00:13:52,359 Speaker 1: So that's probably why when I walk away from friend 274 00:13:52,439 --> 00:13:55,119 Speaker 1: catchups or you know, after I have had a great 275 00:13:55,439 --> 00:13:59,319 Speaker 1: you know, date night with yo, I'm feeling oxytocin. Is 276 00:13:59,319 --> 00:14:00,279 Speaker 1: that kind of what's happening? 277 00:14:00,439 --> 00:14:01,679 Speaker 2: Yeah, the love. 278 00:14:04,639 --> 00:14:08,359 Speaker 3: And then we've also got things like serotonin and endorphins. 279 00:14:08,359 --> 00:14:11,319 Speaker 3: So serotonin we often think about as being related to mood. 280 00:14:11,679 --> 00:14:15,519 Speaker 3: Serotonin helps regulate our mood, It helps with our sleep, 281 00:14:15,559 --> 00:14:17,599 Speaker 3: with our digestion, it does a whole lot of things 282 00:14:17,639 --> 00:14:21,359 Speaker 3: in the brain and body, and and dolphins are the 283 00:14:21,359 --> 00:14:25,519 Speaker 3: body's natural pain relief. I don't know if you're a runner, you're. 284 00:14:25,759 --> 00:14:26,799 Speaker 1: Definitely not a runner. 285 00:14:27,039 --> 00:14:28,239 Speaker 2: I didn't want to make that assumption. 286 00:14:28,599 --> 00:14:31,479 Speaker 1: Just a lot of passion here because you be like 287 00:14:31,519 --> 00:14:33,239 Speaker 1: trying to encourage me to run, and I'm like, I 288 00:14:33,279 --> 00:14:36,839 Speaker 1: am not a runner, very valuately, but I have a 289 00:14:36,879 --> 00:14:37,839 Speaker 1: lot of respect for runners. 290 00:14:38,879 --> 00:14:40,359 Speaker 2: I've tried to be a runner. 291 00:14:41,719 --> 00:14:43,959 Speaker 3: It hasn't been successful bus for runners out there, you 292 00:14:43,959 --> 00:14:46,879 Speaker 3: will have heard of the runners high. So once you 293 00:14:47,279 --> 00:14:50,079 Speaker 3: like you're pushing through the pain, it's a tough slog, 294 00:14:50,399 --> 00:14:53,039 Speaker 3: and then suddenly you get this kind of second wave, 295 00:14:53,239 --> 00:14:56,359 Speaker 3: this boost that comes like after you've let pushed through 296 00:14:56,359 --> 00:14:57,159 Speaker 3: this really hard part. 297 00:14:57,199 --> 00:14:59,519 Speaker 2: That's called the runners high. And that's because and. 298 00:14:59,599 --> 00:15:03,319 Speaker 3: Dolphins get activated, and dolphins get activated when we experience 299 00:15:03,359 --> 00:15:06,359 Speaker 3: some sort of pain, and so it gives runners this 300 00:15:06,479 --> 00:15:08,679 Speaker 3: kind of second wave, in this second boost to be 301 00:15:08,679 --> 00:15:09,399 Speaker 3: able to keep going. 302 00:15:09,439 --> 00:15:11,559 Speaker 1: I didn't know that what about for the brisk walkers 303 00:15:11,639 --> 00:15:13,919 Speaker 1: out there, I'm a brisk walker. 304 00:15:14,039 --> 00:15:16,239 Speaker 3: A brisk walker is high and then you have to 305 00:15:16,319 --> 00:15:16,719 Speaker 3: be in pain. 306 00:15:19,599 --> 00:15:20,119 Speaker 2: You can try it. 307 00:15:20,359 --> 00:15:21,439 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll give you a post it. 308 00:15:22,519 --> 00:15:24,719 Speaker 3: So that's a little bit about what's happening in the brain. 309 00:15:25,199 --> 00:15:28,639 Speaker 3: But if we turn our attention to biology and genetics, 310 00:15:29,039 --> 00:15:34,159 Speaker 3: there's actually something called the happiness set point, and it's 311 00:15:34,239 --> 00:15:36,759 Speaker 3: this theory and this research within the field of positive 312 00:15:36,759 --> 00:15:40,639 Speaker 3: psychology that essentially suggests that we all have a happiness 313 00:15:40,639 --> 00:15:44,159 Speaker 3: set point. We have some kind of baseline, and we 314 00:15:44,239 --> 00:15:47,559 Speaker 3: differ from person to person on where we sit in 315 00:15:47,639 --> 00:15:51,119 Speaker 3: terms of our happiness set point. Some people are naturally 316 00:15:51,279 --> 00:15:55,879 Speaker 3: geared and designed biologically to kind of sit on a 317 00:15:56,079 --> 00:15:59,799 Speaker 3: higher end of the happiness set point spectrum than other people. 318 00:15:59,959 --> 00:16:03,959 Speaker 1: That is so fascinating. Wow. Yeah, so it is literally. 319 00:16:03,639 --> 00:16:07,199 Speaker 3: In our gene Yes, yes, there are some people who 320 00:16:07,279 --> 00:16:09,719 Speaker 3: will walk through the world with a more sort of 321 00:16:09,799 --> 00:16:13,799 Speaker 3: positive outlook than other people simply based on genetics. So 322 00:16:13,919 --> 00:16:16,399 Speaker 3: this is not to kind of factor in life experiences, 323 00:16:16,479 --> 00:16:18,279 Speaker 3: et cetera that shape how we view the world, but 324 00:16:18,319 --> 00:16:21,279 Speaker 3: simply based on our genetics and our biology, some people 325 00:16:21,319 --> 00:16:23,159 Speaker 3: have a naturally higher set point than others. 326 00:16:23,399 --> 00:16:27,159 Speaker 1: Wow, is that kind of where intergenerational trauma kind of 327 00:16:27,159 --> 00:16:28,199 Speaker 1: comes into it. 328 00:16:28,199 --> 00:16:31,599 Speaker 3: It can, it can because absolutely we know that intergenerational 329 00:16:31,639 --> 00:16:35,679 Speaker 3: trauma does kind of carry through DNA and genetics from 330 00:16:35,719 --> 00:16:38,679 Speaker 3: one generation to the next, so that can absolutely influence it. 331 00:16:38,919 --> 00:16:39,359 Speaker 1: Wow. 332 00:16:39,399 --> 00:16:43,119 Speaker 3: But the good news is that the genetic component of this, 333 00:16:43,279 --> 00:16:46,279 Speaker 3: of the set point that we have is about fifty percent, 334 00:16:46,439 --> 00:16:47,959 Speaker 3: which sounds. 335 00:16:47,759 --> 00:16:48,159 Speaker 2: Like a lot. 336 00:16:48,239 --> 00:16:50,719 Speaker 3: Sounds like a lot, but it also means that there's 337 00:16:51,319 --> 00:16:54,519 Speaker 3: room to move right, Okay, So fifty percent, roughly fifty 338 00:16:54,559 --> 00:16:57,599 Speaker 3: percent is said to be genetics, about ten percent is 339 00:16:57,599 --> 00:17:00,559 Speaker 3: said to be life circumstances. So this is just kind 340 00:17:00,599 --> 00:17:03,039 Speaker 3: of like where we live, our health, our marital status, 341 00:17:03,159 --> 00:17:04,959 Speaker 3: kind of the environment that we're in. 342 00:17:05,239 --> 00:17:08,399 Speaker 1: Really, I am so surprised by that because you would 343 00:17:08,399 --> 00:17:11,119 Speaker 1: think that, I know, this is kind of like a percentage, 344 00:17:11,159 --> 00:17:14,759 Speaker 1: but you think, like in conversations with people, the thing 345 00:17:14,799 --> 00:17:17,359 Speaker 1: that you know, with my friends we complain about or 346 00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:19,919 Speaker 1: talk about is, you know, our relationship status or we 347 00:17:19,919 --> 00:17:22,239 Speaker 1: don't have enough money. Like it does feel like that's 348 00:17:22,679 --> 00:17:24,079 Speaker 1: more than fifty percent. You know. 349 00:17:24,319 --> 00:17:25,839 Speaker 2: Well, here's the interesting bit. 350 00:17:25,959 --> 00:17:29,399 Speaker 3: Perhaps what you're referring to is the remaining forty percent, 351 00:17:30,119 --> 00:17:33,239 Speaker 3: which is our kind of intentional way of being in 352 00:17:33,279 --> 00:17:33,599 Speaker 3: the world. 353 00:17:33,679 --> 00:17:35,559 Speaker 2: So this is really the way we think about. 354 00:17:35,279 --> 00:17:39,519 Speaker 3: Things, the way we perceive things, our beliefs, our actions, 355 00:17:39,639 --> 00:17:41,519 Speaker 3: and our kind of capacity to feel like we can 356 00:17:41,599 --> 00:17:44,639 Speaker 3: change things. So you may have the friend who talks 357 00:17:44,639 --> 00:17:47,399 Speaker 3: about the relationship that they're unhappy with. Yeah, and the 358 00:17:47,439 --> 00:17:50,079 Speaker 3: relationship is a percentage, like the fact that in the 359 00:17:50,119 --> 00:17:52,959 Speaker 3: relationship and what's happening is a percentage, but also then 360 00:17:53,199 --> 00:17:55,719 Speaker 3: their actions and their way of being and thinking about 361 00:17:55,719 --> 00:17:57,159 Speaker 3: it is a bigger percentage. 362 00:17:57,359 --> 00:17:59,919 Speaker 1: Wow, mine's being blown. 363 00:18:00,519 --> 00:18:03,199 Speaker 3: So it goes to show like that that kind of 364 00:18:03,399 --> 00:18:06,159 Speaker 3: forty fifty percent we can really kind of do things 365 00:18:06,599 --> 00:18:09,199 Speaker 3: to be able to shift that happiness set point. It's 366 00:18:09,239 --> 00:18:13,119 Speaker 3: not just stuck based on genetics. Yes, there's that genetic component, 367 00:18:13,119 --> 00:18:13,599 Speaker 3: but there's. 368 00:18:13,399 --> 00:18:14,359 Speaker 2: Things we can do as well. 369 00:18:14,519 --> 00:18:15,359 Speaker 1: Yeah, there's hope. 370 00:18:15,919 --> 00:18:16,239 Speaker 2: Yes. 371 00:18:16,399 --> 00:18:18,759 Speaker 3: The reason I think the happiness set point is important 372 00:18:18,759 --> 00:18:23,519 Speaker 3: to talk about is because what we find is that 373 00:18:23,559 --> 00:18:28,119 Speaker 3: when people go through a variety of experiences in their life, 374 00:18:28,559 --> 00:18:33,279 Speaker 3: good or bad, they will eventually come back to their 375 00:18:33,639 --> 00:18:35,919 Speaker 3: happiness set point. This is what we refer to as 376 00:18:35,919 --> 00:18:40,119 Speaker 3: hedonic adaptation. And so there was a landmark study in 377 00:18:40,599 --> 00:18:43,799 Speaker 3: I think nineteen seventy eight. This landmark study that was done, 378 00:18:43,879 --> 00:18:49,599 Speaker 3: and it compared people who won the lottery versus people 379 00:18:49,599 --> 00:18:53,559 Speaker 3: who'd been in accidents and were victims and were paralyzed 380 00:18:53,639 --> 00:18:55,999 Speaker 3: as a result of the accident they'd been in the 381 00:18:56,039 --> 00:18:58,759 Speaker 3: papers called lottery winners and accident victims. 382 00:18:58,839 --> 00:18:59,879 Speaker 2: Is happiness relative? 383 00:19:00,319 --> 00:19:03,319 Speaker 3: And so essentially they set out to study how these 384 00:19:03,679 --> 00:19:09,759 Speaker 3: major life changing experiences might change people's experience of happiness. 385 00:19:09,999 --> 00:19:12,039 Speaker 3: And what they found for both kind of groups of 386 00:19:12,039 --> 00:19:15,399 Speaker 3: people generally is that, yes, there was this immediate shift 387 00:19:15,439 --> 00:19:19,679 Speaker 3: away where the accident victims were very much less happy 388 00:19:19,839 --> 00:19:21,839 Speaker 3: for a period of time and the lottery winners were 389 00:19:22,159 --> 00:19:24,799 Speaker 3: very happy for a period of time, but that after 390 00:19:24,839 --> 00:19:28,079 Speaker 3: a period of time, people came back to their hedonic 391 00:19:28,399 --> 00:19:30,919 Speaker 3: set point, their their happiness set point, this sense of 392 00:19:30,919 --> 00:19:33,639 Speaker 3: hedonic adaptation, coming back to sort of where we are 393 00:19:33,719 --> 00:19:34,919 Speaker 3: naturally designed to be. 394 00:19:35,199 --> 00:19:37,239 Speaker 1: So, I guess it kind of just shows as well 395 00:19:37,519 --> 00:19:40,719 Speaker 1: life circumstances, even though they can be hard, there is 396 00:19:40,759 --> 00:19:43,479 Speaker 1: some point we come back to as our baseline. 397 00:19:43,479 --> 00:19:45,679 Speaker 2: We're adaptable. Yeah, I wonder. 398 00:19:45,439 --> 00:19:48,399 Speaker 1: What my baseline is. How do you can you measure it? 399 00:19:48,519 --> 00:19:51,279 Speaker 3: I'd say you'd be high, you'd be you're, you're, you're 400 00:19:51,319 --> 00:19:53,439 Speaker 3: a pretty positive person from my. 401 00:19:53,479 --> 00:19:55,719 Speaker 1: Experience of you. I am the co host of but 402 00:19:55,799 --> 00:20:01,199 Speaker 1: are you happy? On? They sign the wrong chick. Now, 403 00:20:01,199 --> 00:20:03,839 Speaker 1: I'm joking, guys. I'm happy. I feel like you're happy to. 404 00:20:04,599 --> 00:20:06,159 Speaker 3: I think we both have, but I think we're both 405 00:20:06,199 --> 00:20:08,839 Speaker 3: probably up that upper end of the spectrum. So, given 406 00:20:08,879 --> 00:20:13,439 Speaker 3: our topic of happiness, I've been doing research as to 407 00:20:13,639 --> 00:20:18,719 Speaker 3: who the happiest people might be. And so there's actually 408 00:20:18,719 --> 00:20:22,199 Speaker 3: the World's Happiness Report that gets done annually. 409 00:20:22,719 --> 00:20:23,679 Speaker 1: It gets on annually. 410 00:20:23,799 --> 00:20:25,879 Speaker 2: Yeah, wow, yep, that's good. Yep. 411 00:20:26,239 --> 00:20:29,759 Speaker 3: They rank countries to see who, you know who, which 412 00:20:29,799 --> 00:20:31,719 Speaker 3: country has the happiest people in the world. 413 00:20:32,399 --> 00:20:33,399 Speaker 2: Who do you think is at the top? 414 00:20:33,439 --> 00:20:35,359 Speaker 1: Oh? My gosh, I can't believe you're asking me that 415 00:20:35,479 --> 00:20:38,879 Speaker 1: I would know. I feel like it would be. Is 416 00:20:38,879 --> 00:20:39,559 Speaker 1: it like Bhutan? 417 00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:40,839 Speaker 2: Bhutan? 418 00:20:40,959 --> 00:20:43,079 Speaker 1: Bhutan? I'm pretty sure, aren't they. They do a lot 419 00:20:43,079 --> 00:20:44,159 Speaker 1: of stuff in happiness. 420 00:20:44,479 --> 00:20:45,319 Speaker 2: Oh, I don't know. 421 00:20:45,399 --> 00:20:47,959 Speaker 1: I've had friends that have gone to Bhutan because I'm 422 00:20:47,959 --> 00:20:51,039 Speaker 1: pretty sure there's something big they've done, like happiness studies. 423 00:20:51,079 --> 00:20:53,639 Speaker 1: I don't know. Don't quote me on this, guys, I'm 424 00:20:53,679 --> 00:20:54,999 Speaker 1: not sure this was in conversation. 425 00:20:55,279 --> 00:20:57,919 Speaker 3: Okay, okay, sounds I don't know, sounds like it could 426 00:20:57,959 --> 00:21:03,399 Speaker 3: be okay, number one Finland, no way, yeah, Finland, Finland, 427 00:21:03,519 --> 00:21:05,679 Speaker 3: don't they have good policy something? Well, a lot of 428 00:21:05,679 --> 00:21:09,319 Speaker 3: the Nordic countries come up, So Finland, Denmark, Iceland, Sweden 429 00:21:09,319 --> 00:21:10,039 Speaker 3: are the top four. 430 00:21:10,759 --> 00:21:12,559 Speaker 2: Not that there's a political show, but it could. 431 00:21:12,519 --> 00:21:17,559 Speaker 3: Comment some somewhat about policies and governments there. Yeah, Australia 432 00:21:17,959 --> 00:21:20,719 Speaker 3: for all the Aussie listeners number eleven. 433 00:21:20,919 --> 00:21:21,479 Speaker 1: Okay, that's not. 434 00:21:21,519 --> 00:21:22,919 Speaker 2: That bad, not that bad at all. 435 00:21:22,999 --> 00:21:25,159 Speaker 1: You could considering how many countries there are in the world. 436 00:21:25,319 --> 00:21:28,759 Speaker 2: Yeap, and our New Zealand buddies number twelve. 437 00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:30,839 Speaker 1: So okay, that's pretty nice. 438 00:21:30,999 --> 00:21:32,519 Speaker 2: Eleven and twelve. I think that's pretty good. 439 00:21:32,639 --> 00:21:36,719 Speaker 1: That's good. So are they rating the happiness on like 440 00:21:36,839 --> 00:21:38,839 Speaker 1: quality of life or what? I don't know. 441 00:21:38,879 --> 00:21:41,959 Speaker 3: So they ask a question. I've got the question. Yeah, yeah, 442 00:21:41,999 --> 00:21:44,839 Speaker 3: So you know, not a perfect science. There's a lot 443 00:21:44,879 --> 00:21:47,719 Speaker 3: that goes into it. But they say, imagine a ladder 444 00:21:47,759 --> 00:21:50,519 Speaker 3: with steps numbered from zero at the bottom to ten 445 00:21:50,559 --> 00:21:52,719 Speaker 3: at the top. The top of the ladder represents the 446 00:21:52,759 --> 00:21:54,959 Speaker 3: best possible life for you, and at the bottom of 447 00:21:55,039 --> 00:21:55,719 Speaker 3: the ladder it. 448 00:21:55,719 --> 00:21:57,679 Speaker 2: Represents the worst possible life for you. 449 00:21:58,239 --> 00:22:00,639 Speaker 3: On which step of the ladder, would you say you 450 00:22:00,759 --> 00:22:04,799 Speaker 3: personally feel you stand at this point in time. So 451 00:22:04,879 --> 00:22:08,239 Speaker 3: it's it's quite a broad global question. And when we 452 00:22:08,279 --> 00:22:12,399 Speaker 3: look at kind of the scores, like Finland is scoring 453 00:22:12,479 --> 00:22:15,519 Speaker 3: seven point seven on average, so it's not like people 454 00:22:15,719 --> 00:22:16,799 Speaker 3: like countries are scoring ten. 455 00:22:16,999 --> 00:22:19,639 Speaker 2: Yeah, kind of seven in the sevens is. 456 00:22:20,319 --> 00:22:23,479 Speaker 1: Pretty high considering I assume they would be interviewing quite 457 00:22:23,479 --> 00:22:28,359 Speaker 1: a lot of people. Yeah, so that's amazing. Yeah, Finland, everyone. 458 00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:30,879 Speaker 2: So Finland, there you go. If you want to be happy, 459 00:22:30,919 --> 00:22:31,199 Speaker 2: moved to. 460 00:22:32,879 --> 00:22:33,679 Speaker 1: That's the takeaway. 461 00:22:33,719 --> 00:22:34,559 Speaker 2: That's a takeaway. 462 00:22:34,879 --> 00:22:37,079 Speaker 3: But also also I was thinking about age, right, So 463 00:22:37,079 --> 00:22:40,239 Speaker 3: we've got like countries demographics, but age. So there's a 464 00:22:40,279 --> 00:22:43,839 Speaker 3: lot of research that's gone into psychology around kind of 465 00:22:43,919 --> 00:22:47,359 Speaker 3: different ages and who's happiest. And the data consistently shows 466 00:22:47,799 --> 00:22:52,079 Speaker 3: that as people get older, they actually get happier, Which 467 00:22:52,159 --> 00:22:54,679 Speaker 3: is funny because we talk a lot about the twenties 468 00:22:54,719 --> 00:22:56,159 Speaker 3: are the best years of your life? 469 00:22:56,239 --> 00:22:57,719 Speaker 2: Right, Like how many twenty year olds have heard that? 470 00:22:57,839 --> 00:22:59,999 Speaker 3: I certainly heard that what I was in my twenties 471 00:23:00,079 --> 00:23:03,559 Speaker 3: like enjoy it because it won't last, which sounds terrible, 472 00:23:04,759 --> 00:23:06,799 Speaker 3: like make good most of every moment and the thing 473 00:23:06,839 --> 00:23:08,959 Speaker 3: is it's a misconception because a lot of people in 474 00:23:08,999 --> 00:23:11,919 Speaker 3: their twenties are actually, in some ways at the hardest 475 00:23:11,959 --> 00:23:12,799 Speaker 3: point in their life. 476 00:23:12,799 --> 00:23:13,959 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I felt like that. 477 00:23:14,199 --> 00:23:16,879 Speaker 3: It's like, Okay, yes, there's a lot of new experiences, 478 00:23:16,959 --> 00:23:20,799 Speaker 3: but you might be kind of in your first job 479 00:23:20,839 --> 00:23:23,799 Speaker 3: and maybe your worst job and potentially lowest paid job. 480 00:23:24,159 --> 00:23:27,399 Speaker 3: You know, you're going through your first relationships, first heartbreaks. 481 00:23:27,919 --> 00:23:30,879 Speaker 3: You don't have financial resources available to you in the 482 00:23:30,919 --> 00:23:33,159 Speaker 3: same way that you might have later on in life. 483 00:23:33,159 --> 00:23:35,279 Speaker 3: So there's actually a lot of research that shows actually, know, 484 00:23:35,319 --> 00:23:37,719 Speaker 3: the twenties are not necessarily the best years of your life. 485 00:23:37,719 --> 00:23:39,999 Speaker 3: They can be a lot of fun, maybe that sort 486 00:23:39,999 --> 00:23:43,239 Speaker 3: of short term dopamine driven kind of happiness, but in 487 00:23:43,319 --> 00:23:46,399 Speaker 3: terms of that deeper satisfaction, people actually get happier the 488 00:23:46,439 --> 00:23:47,119 Speaker 3: older they get. 489 00:23:47,319 --> 00:23:50,359 Speaker 1: That makes sense though, because I can imagine when we 490 00:23:50,399 --> 00:23:53,399 Speaker 1: have those life experiences, it shapes us, and then we 491 00:23:53,439 --> 00:23:54,799 Speaker 1: know who we want to be, who we don't want 492 00:23:54,799 --> 00:23:56,319 Speaker 1: to be, who we want to hang out with, who 493 00:23:56,319 --> 00:23:57,839 Speaker 1: we don't want to hang out with, Like, there is 494 00:23:57,879 --> 00:24:01,719 Speaker 1: so much learning, and then yeah, we gain wisdom, we 495 00:24:01,799 --> 00:24:05,639 Speaker 1: gain them gray wise hairs. I've started to get great hairs. Too, 496 00:24:06,439 --> 00:24:08,959 Speaker 1: my wise hairs. It's a good thing. Guys, I'm not stressed. 497 00:24:09,439 --> 00:24:16,399 Speaker 1: I'm not stressed. Don't go anywhere, because after the break, 498 00:24:16,439 --> 00:24:18,679 Speaker 1: doctor an Assia is going to share how the perma 499 00:24:18,759 --> 00:24:20,999 Speaker 1: model can spark a little more joy in your life. 500 00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:27,199 Speaker 1: Stay with us. So, if happiness isn't a permanent state, 501 00:24:27,239 --> 00:24:29,879 Speaker 1: which is what we're gathering from this episode, how do 502 00:24:29,959 --> 00:24:33,359 Speaker 1: we actually build a good life? I know it's a 503 00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:35,759 Speaker 1: big question. Yeah, but I feel like you got the answer. 504 00:24:36,439 --> 00:24:38,279 Speaker 2: You have a lot of faith in me. I. 505 00:24:39,239 --> 00:24:41,239 Speaker 3: Well, the good news is that there's a there's a 506 00:24:41,279 --> 00:24:45,359 Speaker 3: whole field of psychology dedicated to this exact topic in question, 507 00:24:45,439 --> 00:24:48,359 Speaker 3: and it's the field of positive psychology. So it really 508 00:24:48,399 --> 00:24:52,359 Speaker 3: focuses on, you know, how do we build a rich, fulfilling, 509 00:24:52,599 --> 00:24:57,399 Speaker 3: meaningful life. And Doctor Seligman actually came up with the 510 00:24:57,479 --> 00:24:59,759 Speaker 3: perma model that we're going to unpack us a bit 511 00:24:59,759 --> 00:25:02,759 Speaker 3: of a takeaway with five different pillars, according to the 512 00:25:02,799 --> 00:25:07,679 Speaker 3: acronym for ways that we can feel more intrinsically positive 513 00:25:07,759 --> 00:25:10,679 Speaker 3: and joyous and fulfilled in our day to day life. 514 00:25:10,719 --> 00:25:11,199 Speaker 1: I love that. 515 00:25:11,319 --> 00:25:13,999 Speaker 2: Well, let's unpack it five core elements. 516 00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:16,159 Speaker 3: So if we go through kind of what each of 517 00:25:16,199 --> 00:25:18,639 Speaker 3: them stands for I'll do it once over and then 518 00:25:18,679 --> 00:25:21,479 Speaker 3: we'll unpack them. So the P stands for positive emotions, 519 00:25:22,039 --> 00:25:26,999 Speaker 3: the E stands for engagement, R stands for relationships, M 520 00:25:27,159 --> 00:25:31,559 Speaker 3: stands for meaning, and A stands for accomplishment. So there's 521 00:25:31,559 --> 00:25:34,279 Speaker 3: a five kind of different core areas that we can 522 00:25:34,399 --> 00:25:37,399 Speaker 3: work on, actively take action on in our life to 523 00:25:37,439 --> 00:25:39,559 Speaker 3: be able to build that sort of sense of meaning, 524 00:25:39,639 --> 00:25:40,639 Speaker 3: joy and satisfaction. 525 00:25:40,999 --> 00:25:43,639 Speaker 1: And I like that it's very digestible. Perma. It's like 526 00:25:43,719 --> 00:25:46,919 Speaker 1: you think about getting a perm, A you. 527 00:25:46,879 --> 00:25:51,919 Speaker 3: Know, easy to remember next time I get a perm. 528 00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:55,119 Speaker 1: Anyways, let's start with p okay. 529 00:25:55,239 --> 00:25:58,239 Speaker 3: So p P stands for positive emotions, which might be 530 00:25:58,239 --> 00:26:00,759 Speaker 3: you getting a perm, but who knows positive emotions? So 531 00:26:00,839 --> 00:26:04,279 Speaker 3: anything that gives you a sense of joy, anything that 532 00:26:04,599 --> 00:26:09,959 Speaker 3: brings on pleasant, positive feelings. So the question I would 533 00:26:09,999 --> 00:26:12,479 Speaker 3: ask you to reflect on, and Ashana, you can join 534 00:26:12,559 --> 00:26:15,239 Speaker 3: me and reflecting on this with me. But listeners out 535 00:26:15,279 --> 00:26:19,839 Speaker 3: at home, what activities bring you simple pleasure? 536 00:26:20,639 --> 00:26:22,079 Speaker 2: And how often do you get them? 537 00:26:22,759 --> 00:26:22,879 Speaker 1: Mm? 538 00:26:23,519 --> 00:26:24,959 Speaker 2: So what brings you simple pleasure? 539 00:26:25,719 --> 00:26:28,639 Speaker 1: So the first thing I came into my head was food. 540 00:26:29,039 --> 00:26:32,079 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, food makes you really happy, especially when it's delicious. 541 00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:34,039 Speaker 1: How good is it after eat a good meal and 542 00:26:34,079 --> 00:26:36,719 Speaker 1: then you just like feel a bit tired and you 543 00:26:36,839 --> 00:26:40,039 Speaker 1: just want to have a nap. Yeah, the shares vivid 544 00:26:40,079 --> 00:26:41,879 Speaker 1: because it really does bring me a lot of joy. 545 00:26:41,919 --> 00:26:45,599 Speaker 2: I had some briosh just before we started recording this delightful. 546 00:26:45,759 --> 00:26:47,879 Speaker 1: That's fancy? Is that fancy bread? 547 00:26:47,999 --> 00:26:49,479 Speaker 2: Yeah? 548 00:26:49,479 --> 00:26:50,479 Speaker 1: Posh, I love it. 549 00:26:50,799 --> 00:26:51,119 Speaker 4: Yeah. 550 00:26:51,159 --> 00:26:54,079 Speaker 3: So the simple pleasures, the things that bring us joy. 551 00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:56,119 Speaker 3: You know, we're not going to overindulge, but we need 552 00:26:56,119 --> 00:26:58,559 Speaker 3: them in moderation because they do help us feel good. 553 00:26:58,759 --> 00:26:59,079 Speaker 1: Yeah. 554 00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:01,159 Speaker 3: So that's the first that's the p that's the first 555 00:27:01,199 --> 00:27:05,839 Speaker 3: part of the model. Okay, E stands for engagement. Now, 556 00:27:05,839 --> 00:27:08,159 Speaker 3: when we talk about engagement, we're really kind of talking 557 00:27:08,159 --> 00:27:12,319 Speaker 3: about this idea of flow. What helps us feel like 558 00:27:12,439 --> 00:27:15,039 Speaker 3: we are in the moment, Like we are in flow 559 00:27:15,279 --> 00:27:17,879 Speaker 3: when we're engaged with an activity. So that idea of 560 00:27:17,919 --> 00:27:21,719 Speaker 3: flow being that feeling of being fully consumed by what 561 00:27:21,799 --> 00:27:24,159 Speaker 3: we're doing. We feel really kind of deep in it. 562 00:27:24,759 --> 00:27:26,639 Speaker 3: What sorts of things help us feel that? So the 563 00:27:26,759 --> 00:27:30,639 Speaker 3: question I have is when do you feel most absorbed 564 00:27:30,839 --> 00:27:35,999 Speaker 3: and present and how can you cultivate more of that? So, Shannie, 565 00:27:36,039 --> 00:27:39,839 Speaker 3: when do you feel like you feel most absorbed in 566 00:27:39,919 --> 00:27:40,559 Speaker 3: what you're doing. 567 00:27:42,039 --> 00:27:46,279 Speaker 1: Ah, there's so many different things. I feel like it's 568 00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:49,679 Speaker 1: kind of similar to food but cookie. Oh yeah, getting 569 00:27:49,639 --> 00:27:54,719 Speaker 1: into this meditative flow where initially there's the resistance of like, oh, 570 00:27:54,719 --> 00:27:56,479 Speaker 1: I don't want to cook, and then you was like, 571 00:27:56,479 --> 00:27:58,399 Speaker 1: you know, you go through the same cycle where you 572 00:27:58,519 --> 00:28:00,079 Speaker 1: don't like it, then you love it. I'm like, no, 573 00:28:00,199 --> 00:28:01,959 Speaker 1: it's different this time, and then I start cooking and 574 00:28:01,999 --> 00:28:03,679 Speaker 1: then I do get into the flow again, and then 575 00:28:04,239 --> 00:28:06,719 Speaker 1: a sudden time has just gone and I've cooked up 576 00:28:06,759 --> 00:28:08,639 Speaker 1: all these dishes and I'm like, oh, that was nice. 577 00:28:08,679 --> 00:28:11,399 Speaker 2: So it's like a very mindful present experience. 578 00:28:11,999 --> 00:28:14,279 Speaker 1: I like that, Yeah, how about you. 579 00:28:15,159 --> 00:28:19,479 Speaker 3: For me, it's writing, like if I'm whatever I'm writing, 580 00:28:19,559 --> 00:28:21,799 Speaker 3: if it's like research papers, or if it's you know, 581 00:28:22,039 --> 00:28:24,879 Speaker 3: the book or whatever, Like any kind of time I've 582 00:28:24,919 --> 00:28:27,119 Speaker 3: been deep in writing, I feel that sense of flow. 583 00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:27,599 Speaker 1: Yeah. 584 00:28:27,639 --> 00:28:28,119 Speaker 2: I love that. 585 00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:29,199 Speaker 1: Yeah cool. 586 00:28:29,559 --> 00:28:33,279 Speaker 3: Okay, So that's E the engagement. The next letter is OH, 587 00:28:33,319 --> 00:28:36,479 Speaker 3: which stands for relationships. So this is essentially how do 588 00:28:36,559 --> 00:28:42,479 Speaker 3: we build and cultivate healthy, fulfilling, meaningful relationships in our lives. 589 00:28:43,039 --> 00:28:45,439 Speaker 3: So the question I would ask people to reflect on 590 00:28:46,319 --> 00:28:49,239 Speaker 3: who are the most important people in my life and 591 00:28:49,279 --> 00:28:51,959 Speaker 3: how can I show them I care? Because remember this 592 00:28:52,079 --> 00:28:55,279 Speaker 3: is all about being able to take action with these letters, 593 00:28:55,319 --> 00:28:57,239 Speaker 3: So it's not just about reflecting on the fact I 594 00:28:57,239 --> 00:28:59,599 Speaker 3: have relationships, but how do I cultivate them? How can 595 00:28:59,639 --> 00:29:02,999 Speaker 3: I show people I care? So, who are the most 596 00:29:03,039 --> 00:29:05,359 Speaker 3: important people in your life? How can you show them 597 00:29:05,359 --> 00:29:06,119 Speaker 3: you care? 598 00:29:07,519 --> 00:29:11,119 Speaker 1: Well, definitely Yo, he's my number one rock and my 599 00:29:11,279 --> 00:29:15,639 Speaker 1: family and my close friends. And how I would show that, 600 00:29:16,559 --> 00:29:18,919 Speaker 1: I mean with Yo, I mean it's in the small moments. 601 00:29:18,959 --> 00:29:20,759 Speaker 1: Like you know, we're both very busy people, so when 602 00:29:20,759 --> 00:29:23,199 Speaker 1: we get a moment it's like a kiss or a cuddle, 603 00:29:23,439 --> 00:29:24,239 Speaker 1: keep a PG. 604 00:29:26,599 --> 00:29:30,439 Speaker 3: Listeners, block your ears or don't. 605 00:29:32,919 --> 00:29:35,119 Speaker 1: But yeah, it's just like those moments of like physical 606 00:29:35,199 --> 00:29:37,839 Speaker 1: touch or just like you know, having a check in 607 00:29:38,119 --> 00:29:41,239 Speaker 1: around how the day's going. So it's just having that 608 00:29:41,839 --> 00:29:44,559 Speaker 1: quality time but also quantity time. I find just when 609 00:29:44,599 --> 00:29:46,559 Speaker 1: we can block out time together, it's the best. 610 00:29:46,839 --> 00:29:47,039 Speaker 3: Yeah. 611 00:29:47,279 --> 00:29:49,879 Speaker 1: Yeah, how about you, I say. 612 00:29:49,679 --> 00:29:52,999 Speaker 3: Like, the first thing coming to mind is family, my partner, friends, 613 00:29:53,039 --> 00:29:55,999 Speaker 3: as you said, and for me, I'm thinking about you know, 614 00:29:56,039 --> 00:29:58,439 Speaker 3: how I show people I care is maybe through the 615 00:29:58,519 --> 00:30:02,359 Speaker 3: acts of service, so helping out, doing things to help someone, 616 00:30:02,759 --> 00:30:06,039 Speaker 3: or doing something to show someone I've been thinking of them, 617 00:30:06,159 --> 00:30:08,199 Speaker 3: whether that's sending a message to be like, hey, you know, 618 00:30:08,239 --> 00:30:10,319 Speaker 3: I was thinking about you. How's X y Z going 619 00:30:10,359 --> 00:30:13,479 Speaker 3: in your life? Or just showing my thoughtfulness. 620 00:30:14,199 --> 00:30:17,759 Speaker 2: That's what I try to do. I love that, all right. 621 00:30:17,799 --> 00:30:18,919 Speaker 2: So that's relationships. 622 00:30:19,399 --> 00:30:22,679 Speaker 3: So we've had positive emotions, we've had engagement, we've had relationships. 623 00:30:22,879 --> 00:30:26,279 Speaker 3: Now we're up to M, which stands for meaning, and 624 00:30:26,359 --> 00:30:29,839 Speaker 3: again we're gonna go back into values because M is 625 00:30:29,879 --> 00:30:32,199 Speaker 3: about how do I create meaning in my life? 626 00:30:32,239 --> 00:30:34,079 Speaker 2: How do I feel like I've. 627 00:30:33,879 --> 00:30:37,159 Speaker 3: Got this bigger sense of purpose, something that's bigger than 628 00:30:37,199 --> 00:30:39,599 Speaker 3: just me and my internal world right now? How do 629 00:30:39,599 --> 00:30:42,559 Speaker 3: we get a sense of meaning? So the question I 630 00:30:42,599 --> 00:30:46,719 Speaker 3: have is what feels valuable and meaningful to you? And 631 00:30:46,759 --> 00:30:48,799 Speaker 3: how can you lean in and do more of that 632 00:30:49,839 --> 00:30:50,439 Speaker 3: big question? 633 00:30:50,679 --> 00:30:52,879 Speaker 1: That is a big question, that is big. 634 00:30:53,439 --> 00:30:53,999 Speaker 2: What do you think? 635 00:30:54,119 --> 00:30:56,159 Speaker 1: Oh? Okay, I was like, I'll make sure ask me 636 00:31:00,839 --> 00:31:05,119 Speaker 1: aliety locked in. I think what lights me up is 637 00:31:05,159 --> 00:31:08,599 Speaker 1: definitely in the space of empowering women to be their 638 00:31:08,599 --> 00:31:11,639 Speaker 1: most authentic selves. So, you know, me being able to 639 00:31:11,919 --> 00:31:14,719 Speaker 1: write more. You know, I love creating content, whether it's online, 640 00:31:14,719 --> 00:31:18,759 Speaker 1: on my social media or you know, writing my substack 641 00:31:19,119 --> 00:31:21,599 Speaker 1: or just writing generally. And I love speaking, So it's 642 00:31:21,639 --> 00:31:24,159 Speaker 1: just like continuing to remind me to keep doing those 643 00:31:24,199 --> 00:31:26,719 Speaker 1: things because a it brings me so much joy and 644 00:31:26,799 --> 00:31:29,679 Speaker 1: be people really get impacted by it, you know, And 645 00:31:29,719 --> 00:31:32,239 Speaker 1: it's really nice to know that you contribute to someone's 646 00:31:32,279 --> 00:31:34,599 Speaker 1: inspiration or a spark, even if it's just a moment. 647 00:31:34,759 --> 00:31:35,959 Speaker 2: So that's beautiful. 648 00:31:36,039 --> 00:31:36,999 Speaker 1: Yeah, how about you. 649 00:31:37,919 --> 00:31:40,879 Speaker 3: So many things when we talk about meaning and purpose 650 00:31:40,959 --> 00:31:43,719 Speaker 3: and values, but I would say one thing that feels 651 00:31:43,759 --> 00:31:45,479 Speaker 3: important to me or has been kind of front of 652 00:31:45,519 --> 00:31:50,999 Speaker 3: mine lately, is finding it meaningful to communicate information. 653 00:31:50,919 --> 00:31:53,359 Speaker 2: In a world where there's just a lot of noise. 654 00:31:54,319 --> 00:31:59,559 Speaker 3: How do we make sure people are understanding research and 655 00:31:59,679 --> 00:32:02,719 Speaker 3: science and facts to be able to kind of have 656 00:32:02,759 --> 00:32:04,839 Speaker 3: that knowledge to inform the choices that they make. I 657 00:32:04,879 --> 00:32:06,999 Speaker 3: guess I'm really about kind of public health and empowering 658 00:32:07,039 --> 00:32:07,399 Speaker 3: people to. 659 00:32:07,399 --> 00:32:08,479 Speaker 2: Make informed choices. 660 00:32:08,599 --> 00:32:09,039 Speaker 1: I love that. 661 00:32:09,359 --> 00:32:10,199 Speaker 2: So I've done meaning. 662 00:32:10,279 --> 00:32:12,639 Speaker 3: And then the last one in the perma model, A 663 00:32:12,999 --> 00:32:17,359 Speaker 3: stands for accomplishment or achievement, So this is essentially that 664 00:32:17,559 --> 00:32:20,719 Speaker 3: sense of how do I feel like I'm making progress 665 00:32:20,719 --> 00:32:22,879 Speaker 3: in my life? How do I feel like I have 666 00:32:23,079 --> 00:32:26,119 Speaker 3: goals that I can set for myself and goals that 667 00:32:26,159 --> 00:32:29,559 Speaker 3: I can then achieve and accomplish. This is really important 668 00:32:29,559 --> 00:32:32,759 Speaker 3: for our sense of self, our sense of identity, and 669 00:32:33,359 --> 00:32:38,319 Speaker 3: self esteem essentially. So the question is what activities do 670 00:32:38,359 --> 00:32:40,879 Speaker 3: you do They give you a sense of progress an 671 00:32:40,879 --> 00:32:42,279 Speaker 3: accomplishment in your life. 672 00:32:42,799 --> 00:32:46,479 Speaker 2: What achievable goals can you set? And how will you 673 00:32:46,559 --> 00:32:48,039 Speaker 2: recognize your progress? 674 00:32:49,439 --> 00:32:52,999 Speaker 1: I love this well, I don't for me because I 675 00:32:53,039 --> 00:32:57,799 Speaker 1: know you're gonna ask me, just go die, I don't 676 00:32:57,839 --> 00:33:02,559 Speaker 1: for me. Vision boards. I love a good visual. So 677 00:33:02,639 --> 00:33:07,439 Speaker 1: last year I did a vision board and I had 678 00:33:07,439 --> 00:33:09,159 Speaker 1: it on my wall, like it's been on my wall 679 00:33:09,199 --> 00:33:12,039 Speaker 1: all year, and it just because it's pretty. It just 680 00:33:12,079 --> 00:33:14,399 Speaker 1: makes it even more compelling and exciting to do it, 681 00:33:14,999 --> 00:33:18,159 Speaker 1: you know. So I had like my visuals of you know, 682 00:33:18,279 --> 00:33:21,759 Speaker 1: even being on a podcast before. Look at you now, 683 00:33:21,879 --> 00:33:23,879 Speaker 1: I know. And that's why it's really cool to have 684 00:33:23,919 --> 00:33:27,479 Speaker 1: that feeling of accomplishment, because it's that feeling of oh wow, 685 00:33:27,679 --> 00:33:30,919 Speaker 1: I wanted to do that. He's like my literal visual 686 00:33:30,999 --> 00:33:34,399 Speaker 1: of it, and now it's happening, So it's exciting. It 687 00:33:34,479 --> 00:33:37,839 Speaker 1: is really exciting. Yeah cool, I like that for me. 688 00:33:38,279 --> 00:33:40,359 Speaker 3: I was reflecting on this, and I think you know, 689 00:33:40,359 --> 00:33:44,199 Speaker 3: I play the piano, so music and learning learning new 690 00:33:44,279 --> 00:33:46,759 Speaker 3: material gives me that, you know, the idea of sort 691 00:33:46,759 --> 00:33:49,679 Speaker 3: of struggling through learning a piece at the start and 692 00:33:49,679 --> 00:33:51,959 Speaker 3: then eventually getting better at it. And you know, I 693 00:33:51,999 --> 00:33:54,639 Speaker 3: can see the progress because it sounds better, you know, 694 00:33:54,759 --> 00:33:56,759 Speaker 3: a month or two in then when I first started. 695 00:33:56,959 --> 00:33:59,319 Speaker 3: Being able to see that progress is really important as well. 696 00:33:59,359 --> 00:34:02,519 Speaker 3: But that helps me feel like I'm moving forward with 697 00:34:02,559 --> 00:34:02,999 Speaker 3: a skill. 698 00:34:03,239 --> 00:34:05,119 Speaker 1: I love that. And you're really good the piano. 699 00:34:05,279 --> 00:34:07,719 Speaker 2: Oh, you don't need to shower me with compliments, Shannie. 700 00:34:07,759 --> 00:34:08,879 Speaker 2: I will bet you ken. 701 00:34:10,039 --> 00:34:15,799 Speaker 1: Stop, but don't up next. Why we like this? It's 702 00:34:15,839 --> 00:34:19,119 Speaker 1: something I think everyone does. And honestly, I have no idea. 703 00:34:19,159 --> 00:34:29,199 Speaker 4: Why do you understand how your behavior is confusing? 704 00:34:29,319 --> 00:34:29,639 Speaker 1: Fine? 705 00:34:30,119 --> 00:34:30,959 Speaker 2: Why are we like this? 706 00:34:31,079 --> 00:34:33,359 Speaker 1: The best way to understand behavior. We'll still look at 707 00:34:33,359 --> 00:34:37,079 Speaker 1: the causes of an action. So why are we like this? Okay, 708 00:34:37,159 --> 00:34:40,039 Speaker 1: So I'm willing to bet every one of our listeners 709 00:34:40,079 --> 00:34:44,439 Speaker 1: do this, Atastasia. Why do we reread text before we 710 00:34:44,519 --> 00:34:45,479 Speaker 1: send them? Oh? 711 00:34:45,559 --> 00:34:47,599 Speaker 2: I like this one. Do you reread text before you 712 00:34:47,599 --> 00:34:47,999 Speaker 2: send them? 713 00:34:48,199 --> 00:34:50,639 Speaker 1: It depends on who I'm sending it to. Like if 714 00:34:50,679 --> 00:34:53,199 Speaker 1: it's someone close, then I'm just like, yeah, whatever. But 715 00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:55,439 Speaker 1: then if it's someone further away or I'm not that 716 00:34:55,559 --> 00:34:59,199 Speaker 1: close with, or if it's work related, sometimes too okay, 717 00:34:59,319 --> 00:35:00,319 Speaker 1: yeah what about you. 718 00:35:00,559 --> 00:35:03,919 Speaker 3: Well, I'm not a big we don't read it so much. 719 00:35:03,959 --> 00:35:05,959 Speaker 3: Trust we got text and emails from me with like 720 00:35:05,999 --> 00:35:07,879 Speaker 3: no capital letters and spelling mistakes. 721 00:35:08,519 --> 00:35:12,639 Speaker 1: I don't think I have really I don't read. But look. 722 00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:16,799 Speaker 3: This taps into the concept of self monitoring. So in 723 00:35:16,839 --> 00:35:20,319 Speaker 3: the nineteen seventies, a psychologist Mark Snyder, he talked about 724 00:35:20,319 --> 00:35:23,599 Speaker 3: this idea of self monitoring, and this essentially taps into 725 00:35:23,639 --> 00:35:27,999 Speaker 3: the difference between who we are versus who we want 726 00:35:28,039 --> 00:35:31,479 Speaker 3: to present ourselves to to the world. Essentially, this process 727 00:35:31,479 --> 00:35:35,119 Speaker 3: of kind of rereading, drafting the message, making sure we've 728 00:35:35,119 --> 00:35:37,319 Speaker 3: got the exclamation mark or the emoji so that we 729 00:35:37,359 --> 00:35:40,439 Speaker 3: can communicate tone in the message. This is all about 730 00:35:40,479 --> 00:35:43,239 Speaker 3: being mindful about how we present ourselves to the outside 731 00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:45,959 Speaker 3: world and to other people. The interesting thing is that 732 00:35:45,999 --> 00:35:49,919 Speaker 3: people can really fall into sort of two distinct categories. 733 00:35:49,959 --> 00:35:53,879 Speaker 3: Here we have high self monitors and low self monitors. 734 00:35:53,919 --> 00:35:56,919 Speaker 3: So high self monitors are people who are really thinking 735 00:35:56,959 --> 00:35:59,879 Speaker 3: about who does this situation need me to be? When 736 00:35:59,879 --> 00:36:02,639 Speaker 3: they're out in the world, talking to people, sending a message, 737 00:36:02,639 --> 00:36:05,839 Speaker 3: They're monitoring themselves a lot, try and fit with what 738 00:36:05,959 --> 00:36:10,199 Speaker 3: that situation requires of them, versus a low self monitor 739 00:36:10,439 --> 00:36:13,199 Speaker 3: who's very much like this is me, take. 740 00:36:13,039 --> 00:36:15,159 Speaker 2: It or leave it, this is who I am. 741 00:36:15,479 --> 00:36:17,639 Speaker 1: So does that mean like there is no good or 742 00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:19,759 Speaker 1: bad if you're either one of them? Is this kind 743 00:36:19,759 --> 00:36:21,919 Speaker 1: of where we explore that middle path we always talk about. 744 00:36:22,199 --> 00:36:24,559 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think, like you said before, with yourself, where 745 00:36:24,559 --> 00:36:27,319 Speaker 3: there's certain situations you will reread and certain people you 746 00:36:27,359 --> 00:36:30,639 Speaker 3: won't necessarily reread. We probably all kind of fit fit 747 00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:33,559 Speaker 3: on the spectrum somewhere. But I guess it's ideal to 748 00:36:33,679 --> 00:36:37,239 Speaker 3: adopt both. Where you do sometimes self monitor, but we 749 00:36:37,279 --> 00:36:40,399 Speaker 3: also need to feel like we're free in who we 750 00:36:40,439 --> 00:36:42,279 Speaker 3: are and that we can express that totally. 751 00:36:42,279 --> 00:36:46,319 Speaker 1: It's like finding that middle ground of being mindful but expressive. Yeah. Yeah, 752 00:36:46,399 --> 00:36:48,799 Speaker 1: I think as well. One of the reasons why I 753 00:36:48,839 --> 00:36:52,319 Speaker 1: feel like I would reread something or someone was to 754 00:36:52,359 --> 00:36:55,399 Speaker 1: reread it is because it can be kind of embarrassing 755 00:36:55,599 --> 00:36:58,999 Speaker 1: if you send something and then it actually doesn't make 756 00:36:59,079 --> 00:37:02,799 Speaker 1: sense or there's like a punctuation error or whatever like that, 757 00:37:02,919 --> 00:37:05,399 Speaker 1: and then we I know, For me, I've definitely created 758 00:37:05,439 --> 00:37:07,319 Speaker 1: like a mini drama in my head being like, oh 759 00:37:07,359 --> 00:37:08,879 Speaker 1: my gosh, they're going to think that I'm stupid and 760 00:37:08,879 --> 00:37:10,519 Speaker 1: then I'm going to lose my job, like, you know, 761 00:37:10,639 --> 00:37:13,839 Speaker 1: just really catastrophic thinking, right, But I think it's quite 762 00:37:13,919 --> 00:37:15,679 Speaker 1: normal if you're an overthinker as well. 763 00:37:15,959 --> 00:37:18,279 Speaker 2: I think it's normal for an overthinker. Yes, it says 764 00:37:18,319 --> 00:37:19,039 Speaker 2: a lot about us. 765 00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:19,479 Speaker 1: Yes. 766 00:37:19,559 --> 00:37:21,839 Speaker 3: See, if I reread a message that had a spelling mistake, 767 00:37:21,879 --> 00:37:23,959 Speaker 3: I'd be like, oh, whoops, Oh I. 768 00:37:23,999 --> 00:37:24,759 Speaker 2: Never think of it again. 769 00:37:24,879 --> 00:37:25,679 Speaker 1: Yeah, totally. 770 00:37:26,039 --> 00:37:28,079 Speaker 3: So I've got to catch the overthinking that might happen 771 00:37:28,119 --> 00:37:29,839 Speaker 3: because that can like consume. 772 00:37:29,479 --> 00:37:31,799 Speaker 1: Us, oh my gosh, and it can be exhausting. Yeah. 773 00:37:31,839 --> 00:37:34,279 Speaker 1: If you have other ideas of human behaviors you want 774 00:37:34,359 --> 00:37:36,959 Speaker 1: us to unpack, please send us a DM on Instagram. 775 00:37:37,039 --> 00:37:39,319 Speaker 1: We would love to hear from you. Voice notes are 776 00:37:39,359 --> 00:37:49,239 Speaker 1: welcome to Okay, Anastasia, can you give us a breakdown 777 00:37:49,319 --> 00:37:51,239 Speaker 1: of the main things we should be taken away from 778 00:37:51,279 --> 00:37:52,599 Speaker 1: this episode? Sure? 779 00:37:52,599 --> 00:37:52,799 Speaker 2: Thing? 780 00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:56,719 Speaker 3: So, first of all, happiness is a fleeting state that 781 00:37:56,839 --> 00:38:00,959 Speaker 3: comes and goes. Secondly, happiness shouldn't. 782 00:38:00,479 --> 00:38:01,039 Speaker 1: Be the goal. 783 00:38:01,479 --> 00:38:04,559 Speaker 3: Rather, we should have the goal as contentment or satisfied 784 00:38:04,839 --> 00:38:05,279 Speaker 3: in life. 785 00:38:06,359 --> 00:38:08,399 Speaker 2: Thirdly, values can. 786 00:38:08,319 --> 00:38:12,479 Speaker 3: Help us reach that feeling of satisfaction with the way 787 00:38:12,479 --> 00:38:16,079 Speaker 3: that our life is. And lastly, the perma model can 788 00:38:16,199 --> 00:38:20,519 Speaker 3: help us take specific actions to build more positivity and 789 00:38:20,599 --> 00:38:21,999 Speaker 3: joy in our day to day life. 790 00:38:22,279 --> 00:38:24,039 Speaker 1: If you'd like to get in touch with us around 791 00:38:24,079 --> 00:38:26,559 Speaker 1: a specific topic you want on the podcast, links are 792 00:38:26,559 --> 00:38:27,279 Speaker 1: in the show notes. 793 00:38:27,759 --> 00:38:32,039 Speaker 3: And while I am a psychologist, this podcast isn't a substitute. 794 00:38:31,359 --> 00:38:32,999 Speaker 2: For therapy or a diagnosis. 795 00:38:33,439 --> 00:38:36,039 Speaker 3: Always take what we talk about here in the context 796 00:38:36,079 --> 00:38:37,639 Speaker 3: of your own health and experiences. 797 00:38:37,919 --> 00:38:40,119 Speaker 1: So next week on the pod, we're talking about that 798 00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:43,239 Speaker 1: weird feeling when your adult team looks different from your 799 00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:46,439 Speaker 1: friends or anyone your age, and how to get comfortable 800 00:38:46,559 --> 00:38:48,359 Speaker 1: moving through life at your own pace. 801 00:38:48,839 --> 00:38:51,079 Speaker 3: Now, if there's anything we talked about today that's brought 802 00:38:51,159 --> 00:38:54,759 Speaker 3: up any difficult feelings for you, you'll find support resources 803 00:38:54,799 --> 00:38:57,639 Speaker 3: linked in the show notes, and if you need immediate help, 804 00:38:57,719 --> 00:39:00,759 Speaker 3: there are organizations like Lifeline and Beyond Blue that are 805 00:39:00,839 --> 00:39:01,759 Speaker 3: always available. 806 00:39:01,959 --> 00:39:03,999 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening and let us know what you think 807 00:39:03,999 --> 00:39:06,959 Speaker 1: of this episode. We're watching your dms on our Instagram 808 00:39:06,999 --> 00:39:09,119 Speaker 1: at But are you happy? Pod? Bye? 809 00:39:09,439 --> 00:39:10,159 Speaker 2: See you next time. 810 00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:17,679 Speaker 3: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of the land and 811 00:39:17,759 --> 00:39:20,319 Speaker 3: waters that this podcast is recorded on.