1 00:00:10,614 --> 00:00:15,254 Speaker 1: You're listening to a Muma Mea podcast. Mumma Mea acknowledges 2 00:00:15,334 --> 00:00:18,134 Speaker 1: the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast 3 00:00:18,214 --> 00:00:18,974 Speaker 1: is recorded on. 4 00:00:22,094 --> 00:00:26,094 Speaker 2: Hey, I'm Taylor Strano. This is Mumama's twice daily news podcast, 5 00:00:26,134 --> 00:00:30,414 Speaker 2: The Quickie. A police probe is underway. Days after Prince 6 00:00:30,454 --> 00:00:34,694 Speaker 2: Andrew officially renounced his royal titles, now no longer the 7 00:00:34,774 --> 00:00:37,894 Speaker 2: Duke of York, even more media attention than before for 8 00:00:38,014 --> 00:00:42,534 Speaker 2: his alleged past indiscretions and a fresh police investigation into 9 00:00:42,574 --> 00:00:45,814 Speaker 2: whether he allegedly asked an officer to dig up dirt 10 00:00:45,854 --> 00:00:49,294 Speaker 2: for a smear campaign against his sexual assault accuser, Virginia 11 00:00:49,374 --> 00:00:52,574 Speaker 2: jew Frey. Where does this leave the King's brother and 12 00:00:52,734 --> 00:00:55,774 Speaker 2: what does it say about the royal family. Plus AI 13 00:00:55,894 --> 00:00:59,854 Speaker 2: has crept into every corner of our lives. Now it's 14 00:00:59,894 --> 00:01:02,774 Speaker 2: found its way onto the dating scene and you may 15 00:01:02,854 --> 00:01:06,814 Speaker 2: have already encountered it. Take this as a cautionary tale 16 00:01:06,854 --> 00:01:10,894 Speaker 2: as you attempt to woo one another online. Before we 17 00:01:10,934 --> 00:01:13,134 Speaker 2: get there, here's Clem Murphy with the latest from the 18 00:01:13,214 --> 00:01:16,054 Speaker 2: quicking US room for Tuesday, October twenty one. 19 00:01:16,614 --> 00:01:19,734 Speaker 1: Thanks Taylor, Prime Minister Anthony Albernizi has met with US 20 00:01:19,814 --> 00:01:22,694 Speaker 1: President Donald Trump signing an agreement on rare Earth and 21 00:01:22,734 --> 00:01:26,014 Speaker 1: critical minerals. Mister Alberzi was met by Trump at the 22 00:01:26,014 --> 00:01:29,934 Speaker 1: White House, reporters asking what message the President has for Australians. 23 00:01:30,094 --> 00:01:30,854 Speaker 3: We love them. 24 00:01:33,734 --> 00:01:36,414 Speaker 4: A lot, a lot great things. 25 00:01:36,454 --> 00:01:37,254 Speaker 5: Thank you very much. 26 00:01:37,334 --> 00:01:38,614 Speaker 3: We're going to get a lot done. 27 00:01:38,854 --> 00:01:41,694 Speaker 1: Albanizi headed into the meeting hoping to secure a promise 28 00:01:41,694 --> 00:01:44,454 Speaker 1: that the Orchest Agreement would remain in place. The more 29 00:01:44,494 --> 00:01:47,374 Speaker 1: than three hundred billion dollar trilateral agreement that would see 30 00:01:47,414 --> 00:01:51,374 Speaker 1: Australia supplied with US nuclear submarines is currently under review 31 00:01:51,414 --> 00:01:54,494 Speaker 1: by the US Department of War. Albinizi also hoped to 32 00:01:54,494 --> 00:01:57,254 Speaker 1: get some movement on tariffs, signing the eight point five 33 00:01:57,334 --> 00:02:00,174 Speaker 1: billion dollar minerals deal as part of a sweetener to 34 00:02:00,254 --> 00:02:02,974 Speaker 1: reduce tariffs on things such as steel, which currently sits 35 00:02:02,974 --> 00:02:06,094 Speaker 1: at fifty percent. Trump told Alberizi that it's a great 36 00:02:06,134 --> 00:02:08,334 Speaker 1: honor to have him as his friend and a great 37 00:02:08,334 --> 00:02:10,734 Speaker 1: honor to have him in the Uni States. But there 38 00:02:10,814 --> 00:02:13,134 Speaker 1: was a moment of tension when a reporter brought up 39 00:02:13,174 --> 00:02:16,614 Speaker 1: comments made by former Prime Minister Kevin Rudd. Trump asked 40 00:02:16,614 --> 00:02:19,294 Speaker 1: if something bad was said about him, then asked where 41 00:02:19,414 --> 00:02:22,134 Speaker 1: Rud was and whether he was still working for Albanizi. 42 00:02:22,494 --> 00:02:24,694 Speaker 1: The PM then pointed to Rudd, who was sitting on 43 00:02:24,734 --> 00:02:27,454 Speaker 1: the opposite side of the table. Mister Trump told Rudd 44 00:02:27,494 --> 00:02:30,254 Speaker 1: that he didn't like him and probably never will. The 45 00:02:30,334 --> 00:02:33,254 Speaker 1: PM has invited Donald Trump to visit Australia and offered 46 00:02:33,254 --> 00:02:36,374 Speaker 1: that Trump says he is seriously considering if you had 47 00:02:36,374 --> 00:02:39,454 Speaker 1: some issues accessing apps like Snapchat and read it last night. 48 00:02:39,534 --> 00:02:41,894 Speaker 1: It should be back online today after an outage at 49 00:02:41,934 --> 00:02:46,254 Speaker 1: Amazon's cloud Services unit AWS. The widespread outage is the 50 00:02:46,374 --> 00:02:49,854 Speaker 1: largest internet disruption since the twenty twenty five crowd strike 51 00:02:49,894 --> 00:02:53,774 Speaker 1: malfunction that led to systems crashing at banks, supermarkets, airports 52 00:02:53,814 --> 00:02:57,374 Speaker 1: and more. AWS says after three hours down, systems are 53 00:02:57,414 --> 00:03:01,894 Speaker 1: gradually coming back online with significant recovery for some affected services, 54 00:03:02,094 --> 00:03:04,214 Speaker 1: but that there was a backlog queue that may take 55 00:03:04,254 --> 00:03:07,374 Speaker 1: some time to get through. There's been no explanation provided 56 00:03:07,414 --> 00:03:09,734 Speaker 1: at this point as to the source of the outage. 57 00:03:09,894 --> 00:03:13,734 Speaker 1: Australian food influencer Stacy Hatfield has sadly passed away from 58 00:03:13,774 --> 00:03:17,534 Speaker 1: a rare complication during childbirth. Her husband posted on her 59 00:03:17,574 --> 00:03:20,654 Speaker 1: Instagram account that his wife had died on September twenty nine, 60 00:03:20,814 --> 00:03:23,534 Speaker 1: after giving birth to their son Excel, at home. He 61 00:03:23,654 --> 00:03:25,694 Speaker 1: said she held the baby and nursed him and knew 62 00:03:25,734 --> 00:03:28,654 Speaker 1: he was a boy. Before she suffered from an undisclosed 63 00:03:28,734 --> 00:03:32,054 Speaker 1: rare condition that saw her transferred to hospital, where staff 64 00:03:32,054 --> 00:03:34,334 Speaker 1: did everything they could to save her, but sadly she 65 00:03:34,454 --> 00:03:37,534 Speaker 1: passed away. Hatfield was known for promoting a tos and 66 00:03:37,574 --> 00:03:41,094 Speaker 1: free lifestyle, sharing foods on her Natural Spoonfuls website and 67 00:03:41,294 --> 00:03:45,774 Speaker 1: Instagram page. In her posthumous memoir Jeffrey Epstein, victim Virginia 68 00:03:45,774 --> 00:03:49,094 Speaker 1: Giffrey accused Prince Andrew's team of trying to hire internet 69 00:03:49,134 --> 00:03:52,054 Speaker 1: trolls to target her. The book Nobody's Girl, which has 70 00:03:52,134 --> 00:03:55,494 Speaker 1: released today, described how she dressed like her idols Britney 71 00:03:55,494 --> 00:03:58,734 Speaker 1: Spears and Christina Aguilera when she first met Andrew as 72 00:03:58,774 --> 00:04:01,654 Speaker 1: a seventeen year old girl, describing the influence on the 73 00:04:01,654 --> 00:04:04,014 Speaker 1: outfit she was wearing in the now infamous photo of 74 00:04:04,054 --> 00:04:06,494 Speaker 1: her and Andrew, he with his arms snaked around her 75 00:04:06,534 --> 00:04:09,094 Speaker 1: bare waist. She alleges that she was forced to have 76 00:04:09,134 --> 00:04:11,974 Speaker 1: sex with the prints on three occasions after being trafficked 77 00:04:11,974 --> 00:04:16,414 Speaker 1: by Jeffrey Epstein, allegations the Prince denies despite paying millions 78 00:04:16,454 --> 00:04:19,334 Speaker 1: to Geffrey to settle a civil sexual assault case, still 79 00:04:19,374 --> 00:04:22,614 Speaker 1: claiming he'd never met her. Giffrey describes in her memoir 80 00:04:22,654 --> 00:04:25,894 Speaker 1: how Andrew hid behind the well guarded gates of Balmoral Castle, 81 00:04:26,174 --> 00:04:28,974 Speaker 1: making it difficult for her lawyers to serve him with papers, 82 00:04:29,294 --> 00:04:32,374 Speaker 1: and said after casting doubt on her credibility for so long, 83 00:04:32,694 --> 00:04:34,814 Speaker 1: Andrew's team had gone so far as to try and 84 00:04:34,934 --> 00:04:38,014 Speaker 1: hire internet trolls to hassle her. She said she knew 85 00:04:38,014 --> 00:04:40,414 Speaker 1: they'd never get a confession from the Prince, saying that's 86 00:04:40,414 --> 00:04:42,934 Speaker 1: what settlements are designed to avoid, but that she was 87 00:04:42,974 --> 00:04:45,814 Speaker 1: trying for the next best thing, a general acknowledgment of 88 00:04:45,854 --> 00:04:48,974 Speaker 1: what she'd been through. Geffrey, who died by suicide in 89 00:04:49,014 --> 00:04:51,814 Speaker 1: Australia in April, wrote an email to her co writer 90 00:04:51,934 --> 00:04:54,454 Speaker 1: Amy Wallace at the start of that month, shortly after 91 00:04:54,534 --> 00:04:56,894 Speaker 1: being involved in a car crash. She said it was 92 00:04:56,934 --> 00:04:59,894 Speaker 1: her heartfelt wish that this work be published, regardless of 93 00:04:59,934 --> 00:05:02,334 Speaker 1: her circumstances at the time, and that it was still 94 00:05:02,374 --> 00:05:04,094 Speaker 1: to be released in the event of her death. 95 00:05:04,574 --> 00:05:08,134 Speaker 2: Thanks Claire. Next, Everything you need to know about Prince 96 00:05:08,174 --> 00:05:17,334 Speaker 2: Andrew's very bad life Weekend. Prince Andrew once had it 97 00:05:17,374 --> 00:05:20,734 Speaker 2: all royal honors, public duties, and a spot in the 98 00:05:20,814 --> 00:05:24,774 Speaker 2: Queen's inner circle. But after years of scandal, this week 99 00:05:24,814 --> 00:05:27,574 Speaker 2: he gave up his last remaining titles in a move 100 00:05:27,654 --> 00:05:30,534 Speaker 2: that might have been nudged along by his own family. 101 00:05:31,294 --> 00:05:34,534 Speaker 2: This all goes back to his infamous twenty nineteen BBC 102 00:05:34,734 --> 00:05:38,774 Speaker 2: interview where he tried to deny the explosive accusations linking 103 00:05:38,854 --> 00:05:43,014 Speaker 2: him to convicted sex offended Jeffrey Epstein and Virginia Giuffrey, 104 00:05:43,174 --> 00:05:47,174 Speaker 2: who has publicly accused Epstein and his associates of sex trafficking. 105 00:05:47,774 --> 00:05:50,294 Speaker 4: She says she met you in two thousand and one. 106 00:05:50,734 --> 00:05:55,654 Speaker 4: She dined with you, she danced with you, You bought her drinks. 107 00:05:56,134 --> 00:05:59,854 Speaker 4: You were in Trump nightclub in London, and she went 108 00:05:59,934 --> 00:06:02,774 Speaker 4: on to have sex with you in a house in 109 00:06:02,854 --> 00:06:05,494 Speaker 4: Belgravia belonging to Gerlaine Maxwell. 110 00:06:05,814 --> 00:06:08,934 Speaker 6: Didn't happen. I have no recollection of ever meeting her. 111 00:06:09,254 --> 00:06:13,894 Speaker 6: I'm almost, in fact, I'm convinced that I was never 112 00:06:14,054 --> 00:06:16,534 Speaker 6: in tramps with her. There are a number of things 113 00:06:16,534 --> 00:06:19,174 Speaker 6: that are wrong with that story, one of which is 114 00:06:19,214 --> 00:06:22,494 Speaker 6: that I don't know where the bar is tramps. I 115 00:06:22,614 --> 00:06:26,014 Speaker 6: don't drink, I don't think i've ever bought a drink 116 00:06:26,054 --> 00:06:28,334 Speaker 6: in tramp whenever I was there. 117 00:06:29,334 --> 00:06:32,494 Speaker 2: Instead of clearing his name, his performance fueled the fallout, 118 00:06:32,694 --> 00:06:36,774 Speaker 2: damaging the monarchy and landing him on the outer Fast 119 00:06:36,774 --> 00:06:40,694 Speaker 2: forward to this year, sexual assault claims, secret emails with Epstein, 120 00:06:40,814 --> 00:06:44,094 Speaker 2: and police probes into alleged attempts to smear jew Frey 121 00:06:44,214 --> 00:06:48,254 Speaker 2: have put Prince Andrew under intense scrutiny. An email emerged 122 00:06:48,294 --> 00:06:52,334 Speaker 2: showing private contact with Epstein years after he denied all ties, 123 00:06:52,814 --> 00:06:56,454 Speaker 2: and new headlines about meetings with figures accused of spying 124 00:06:56,534 --> 00:07:00,174 Speaker 2: for China. Then there's the release of Virginia Jewfhray's upcoming 125 00:07:00,254 --> 00:07:04,174 Speaker 2: posthumously release memoir, which is pulling the scandal right back 126 00:07:04,214 --> 00:07:07,734 Speaker 2: into the spotlight with fresh claims of sexual abuse, including 127 00:07:07,774 --> 00:07:12,534 Speaker 2: detailed allegations of encounter with Prince Andrew again claims he 128 00:07:12,774 --> 00:07:16,694 Speaker 2: strongly denies and amid all this, the pressure mounted from 129 00:07:16,734 --> 00:07:20,294 Speaker 2: the monarchy itself, with reports that both his brother, King 130 00:07:20,414 --> 00:07:24,974 Speaker 2: Charles and nephew Prince William wanted the infected limb cut 131 00:07:25,014 --> 00:07:27,894 Speaker 2: off before it could do further damage to the royal brand. 132 00:07:28,934 --> 00:07:31,494 Speaker 2: That's led us to where we are right now. Prince 133 00:07:31,534 --> 00:07:34,654 Speaker 2: Andrew stripped of his titles, his role within the family 134 00:07:34,814 --> 00:07:38,894 Speaker 2: even further distance, and the question remains, will this move 135 00:07:39,014 --> 00:07:41,734 Speaker 2: be enough to protect the image of the royals or 136 00:07:41,894 --> 00:07:45,934 Speaker 2: will the headlines keep coming. Mamma Mer out loud host 137 00:07:45,974 --> 00:07:49,654 Speaker 2: and our resident royal expert, Holly Wainriot has a few thoughts. 138 00:07:50,774 --> 00:07:54,334 Speaker 7: Although several years ago, when the Epstein scandal really blew 139 00:07:54,414 --> 00:07:58,214 Speaker 7: up around Andrew, he stepped back from royal duties, which 140 00:07:58,254 --> 00:08:01,614 Speaker 7: basically meant he was no longer required to go and 141 00:08:02,054 --> 00:08:05,854 Speaker 7: appear at charity functions, open hospitals, that kind of stuff, 142 00:08:06,014 --> 00:08:09,374 Speaker 7: be the face of any charities. He was just to 143 00:08:09,774 --> 00:08:12,254 Speaker 7: to go away and be quiet, and he obviously didn't 144 00:08:12,334 --> 00:08:15,574 Speaker 7: like doing that. And as more and more revelations keep 145 00:08:15,614 --> 00:08:18,774 Speaker 7: coming out about his behavior, his alleged behavior, he's always 146 00:08:18,814 --> 00:08:21,374 Speaker 7: denied it. Of course, it's become apparent that the King 147 00:08:21,494 --> 00:08:23,974 Speaker 7: had to act. He's obviously under so much pressure that 148 00:08:24,014 --> 00:08:26,534 Speaker 7: he had to act. Some might say he could have 149 00:08:26,534 --> 00:08:29,174 Speaker 7: done this quite a while ago when his mother passed away, 150 00:08:29,454 --> 00:08:32,414 Speaker 7: but anyway, so he has officially stripped Andrew of the 151 00:08:32,414 --> 00:08:34,574 Speaker 7: titles that he's been bestowed, which means no longer the 152 00:08:34,654 --> 00:08:37,174 Speaker 7: Duke of York. And he also has basically said you 153 00:08:37,174 --> 00:08:39,894 Speaker 7: will not be seeing him at any royal things anymore. 154 00:08:39,934 --> 00:08:41,814 Speaker 7: So recently we saw him obviously at the coronation, we 155 00:08:41,854 --> 00:08:44,494 Speaker 7: saw him at the Duchess of Kent's funeral. Anytime that 156 00:08:44,534 --> 00:08:47,414 Speaker 7: the family gathers in an official capacity, he was there. 157 00:08:47,894 --> 00:08:49,974 Speaker 7: That won't be the case now. He will be very 158 00:08:50,054 --> 00:08:52,374 Speaker 7: much sitting in his cottage and apparently what he likes 159 00:08:52,374 --> 00:08:55,214 Speaker 7: to do there is watch TV of planes taking off 160 00:08:55,214 --> 00:08:56,734 Speaker 7: from landing and riding his horse. 161 00:08:56,854 --> 00:08:59,934 Speaker 2: Okay, we'll park that, because that's a whole lot of conversation. 162 00:09:00,294 --> 00:09:02,574 Speaker 2: That must be a hard conversation to have. Because the 163 00:09:02,654 --> 00:09:05,454 Speaker 2: King technically didn't strip him of his title, he chose 164 00:09:05,494 --> 00:09:08,734 Speaker 2: to do it of his own volition, I'd say probably, though. 165 00:09:08,654 --> 00:09:11,574 Speaker 7: There was not a bit of jumped or pushed issue there, 166 00:09:11,854 --> 00:09:14,454 Speaker 7: because I think that what's happened and this does not 167 00:09:14,534 --> 00:09:17,694 Speaker 7: reflect well on Charles at all. I don't think is 168 00:09:17,734 --> 00:09:21,494 Speaker 7: that it's not like Charles acted out of because apparently 169 00:09:21,694 --> 00:09:23,894 Speaker 7: Andrew was always the Queen's favorite. This is the way 170 00:09:23,894 --> 00:09:26,334 Speaker 7: that the mythology of the royal family goes, is that 171 00:09:26,414 --> 00:09:28,974 Speaker 7: Andrew was always the Queen's favorite, and even after his 172 00:09:29,054 --> 00:09:32,294 Speaker 7: public disgrace, she was sort of sad about the fact 173 00:09:32,334 --> 00:09:35,214 Speaker 7: that he'd been sidelined, but Charles does not feel the 174 00:09:35,254 --> 00:09:38,374 Speaker 7: same way. It doesn't cover Charles in glory. That it 175 00:09:38,494 --> 00:09:42,494 Speaker 7: took this ground swell of reporting that's still coming out 176 00:09:42,534 --> 00:09:45,614 Speaker 7: about Andrew's alleged role in the Epstein scandal and his 177 00:09:45,654 --> 00:09:48,934 Speaker 7: alleged abuse of Virginia Giffray, and her memoir coming out 178 00:09:48,974 --> 00:09:52,494 Speaker 7: that explains in quite explicit detail what she alleges happened 179 00:09:52,534 --> 00:09:56,294 Speaker 7: between them, that it's taken all of that for him 180 00:09:56,334 --> 00:10:00,854 Speaker 7: to finally say I'm done. I think that Charles has 181 00:10:00,894 --> 00:10:02,934 Speaker 7: allowed him a little bit of face saving and saying 182 00:10:02,974 --> 00:10:05,894 Speaker 7: it was his choice, but I don't think it was holly. 183 00:10:06,094 --> 00:10:10,134 Speaker 2: There's been calls for Prince Andrew to be for stripped 184 00:10:10,254 --> 00:10:13,054 Speaker 2: of his royal titles, like he's no longer the Duke 185 00:10:13,094 --> 00:10:15,694 Speaker 2: of York, Sarah Ferguson no longer the Duchess of York. 186 00:10:16,014 --> 00:10:18,214 Speaker 2: But now people are saying that he should no longer 187 00:10:18,214 --> 00:10:20,734 Speaker 2: be a prince. Is that even possible? 188 00:10:20,774 --> 00:10:23,654 Speaker 7: Though he can't be stripped of his title because it's 189 00:10:23,734 --> 00:10:26,694 Speaker 7: his birthright as the son of the monarch. So this 190 00:10:26,814 --> 00:10:29,294 Speaker 7: is one of those stories that exposes the absurdity of 191 00:10:29,334 --> 00:10:32,254 Speaker 7: the royal family. Really is that there have been times 192 00:10:32,334 --> 00:10:36,214 Speaker 7: in the past when royals have been exiled in inverted commas, 193 00:10:36,254 --> 00:10:37,854 Speaker 7: you know, when they've done something that seemed to have 194 00:10:37,894 --> 00:10:41,414 Speaker 7: disgraced the family, none of them as abhorrent as what 195 00:10:41,614 --> 00:10:44,254 Speaker 7: Prince Andrew is alleged to have done. But they can't 196 00:10:44,294 --> 00:10:47,134 Speaker 7: actually lose the title of their birth. So Prince Harry 197 00:10:47,174 --> 00:10:49,054 Speaker 7: can never not be Prince Harry. He cannot be the 198 00:10:49,134 --> 00:10:52,214 Speaker 7: Duke of Sussex because that's a title that's been gifted 199 00:10:52,214 --> 00:10:54,974 Speaker 7: to him by the Queen. But he was born a prince. 200 00:10:55,014 --> 00:10:56,814 Speaker 7: He's going to die a prince. That's just the way 201 00:10:56,814 --> 00:10:57,094 Speaker 7: it is. 202 00:10:57,294 --> 00:10:59,734 Speaker 2: So what happens now then the royal family We're not 203 00:10:59,734 --> 00:11:02,094 Speaker 2: going to see Prince Andrew probably ever again at any 204 00:11:02,134 --> 00:11:05,494 Speaker 2: sort of official engagements. Will this follow them around forever? Like? 205 00:11:05,534 --> 00:11:06,294 Speaker 2: How do they move on? 206 00:11:06,534 --> 00:11:09,254 Speaker 7: I think this is a really big crisis moment for 207 00:11:09,294 --> 00:11:12,134 Speaker 7: them because it speaks to an inattention that we've sort 208 00:11:12,134 --> 00:11:15,374 Speaker 7: of seen bubbling away between William, who obviously is going 209 00:11:15,414 --> 00:11:18,334 Speaker 7: to be the next king, and his dad. We've seen 210 00:11:18,414 --> 00:11:20,534 Speaker 7: Prince William lately coming out and doing a couple of 211 00:11:20,574 --> 00:11:24,614 Speaker 7: high profile interviews and conversations where he's spoken very pointedly 212 00:11:24,654 --> 00:11:28,934 Speaker 7: about wanting to modernize, modernized, modernize. This idea that we 213 00:11:29,374 --> 00:11:32,934 Speaker 7: tolerate and protect members of our family who have done 214 00:11:32,974 --> 00:11:36,014 Speaker 7: terrible things is something that he will not want following 215 00:11:36,214 --> 00:11:38,894 Speaker 7: his version of the monarchy around. I think this is 216 00:11:38,934 --> 00:11:41,494 Speaker 7: a really difficult time for them because what we've seen 217 00:11:41,534 --> 00:11:46,214 Speaker 7: since Andrew's sort of semi disgracing is he still pops 218 00:11:46,294 --> 00:11:49,494 Speaker 7: up at funerals weddings, as I said before, and then 219 00:11:49,534 --> 00:11:52,454 Speaker 7: it's really awkward because everybody watches to see who interacts 220 00:11:52,454 --> 00:11:55,174 Speaker 7: with him, and I think William does not want to 221 00:11:55,214 --> 00:11:56,214 Speaker 7: inherit these problems. 222 00:12:00,334 --> 00:12:04,334 Speaker 2: Remember when catfishing meant fake photos, Well, there's now a 223 00:12:04,374 --> 00:12:08,894 Speaker 2: new dating drama to worry about. Chatfishing. Allow me to explain. 224 00:12:09,654 --> 00:12:12,934 Speaker 2: Here's how it works. Instead of faking who they look like, 225 00:12:13,174 --> 00:12:16,374 Speaker 2: people are using bots like chat gpt to write their 226 00:12:16,454 --> 00:12:22,094 Speaker 2: dating app messages, from cute openers to lengthy, emotional, intelligent chats. 227 00:12:22,374 --> 00:12:25,494 Speaker 2: The messages sound perfect, but actually come from a bot, 228 00:12:26,014 --> 00:12:28,814 Speaker 2: not the real human you're swiping on. It's a bait 229 00:12:28,854 --> 00:12:31,574 Speaker 2: and switch for the age of automation. Swap out fake 230 00:12:31,614 --> 00:12:35,534 Speaker 2: photos for fake personalities and you've got chatfishing. But it's 231 00:12:35,574 --> 00:12:39,054 Speaker 2: not just dating apps where chatfishing is making waves now. 232 00:12:39,174 --> 00:12:42,174 Speaker 2: People are using prompts to soften up angry emails to 233 00:12:42,214 --> 00:12:45,454 Speaker 2: their boss or make their urgent messages sound a little 234 00:12:45,494 --> 00:12:50,334 Speaker 2: less well urgent. Yes, AI could be your office diplomat 235 00:12:50,494 --> 00:12:53,374 Speaker 2: turning fix this now into when you have a moment. 236 00:12:53,494 --> 00:12:57,694 Speaker 2: Could you please prioritize this? Of course, that does rely 237 00:12:57,774 --> 00:13:00,454 Speaker 2: on you not copying in your pre and post AI 238 00:13:00,534 --> 00:13:04,174 Speaker 2: workup of an email, which has definitely happened to one 239 00:13:04,254 --> 00:13:08,294 Speaker 2: or two of my own colleagues. Back to dating, my 240 00:13:08,574 --> 00:13:12,214 Speaker 2: coworker Elisha has experienced chatfishing irl. 241 00:13:13,414 --> 00:13:17,014 Speaker 5: I knew he was chatfishing me because the questions he 242 00:13:17,174 --> 00:13:20,934 Speaker 5: was asking me to keep the conversation going felt very unnatural. 243 00:13:21,494 --> 00:13:26,094 Speaker 5: They were definitely icebreaker questions, but they were so detailed 244 00:13:26,214 --> 00:13:28,774 Speaker 5: and intricate you could tell it had come from a 245 00:13:28,814 --> 00:13:31,814 Speaker 5: place where he had asked for questions that would purely 246 00:13:31,934 --> 00:13:36,054 Speaker 5: keep the conversation going. These text messages were paragraphs long, 247 00:13:36,294 --> 00:13:39,494 Speaker 5: but I'm talking like to the most absolute extreme point. 248 00:13:40,014 --> 00:13:44,294 Speaker 5: I was receiving multiple essays every day that had no 249 00:13:45,014 --> 00:13:47,694 Speaker 5: natural flow in them. I still went on a date 250 00:13:47,734 --> 00:13:50,814 Speaker 5: with him, because ultimately he was a nice guy. I'd 251 00:13:50,854 --> 00:13:53,894 Speaker 5: met him in person so I knew he was nice 252 00:13:53,974 --> 00:13:56,974 Speaker 5: before we went on a date. His chat game did 253 00:13:57,054 --> 00:13:58,894 Speaker 5: not match his personality so much. 254 00:13:59,614 --> 00:14:00,774 Speaker 4: I will not see him again. 255 00:14:01,174 --> 00:14:03,574 Speaker 5: In fact, I have ended that, and I did end 256 00:14:03,614 --> 00:14:08,094 Speaker 5: that via text message after a few dates, and funnily enough, 257 00:14:08,334 --> 00:14:10,934 Speaker 5: when he responded to me after I sent him a 258 00:14:10,934 --> 00:14:14,094 Speaker 5: lovely text message that was thoughtful and thanked him but 259 00:14:14,254 --> 00:14:16,334 Speaker 5: let him know I didn't wish to pursue it any further. 260 00:14:16,974 --> 00:14:20,734 Speaker 5: He'd accidentally left the AI prompt at the start of 261 00:14:20,814 --> 00:14:24,134 Speaker 5: his text message before copying and pasting it and sending 262 00:14:24,134 --> 00:14:26,814 Speaker 5: it to me. So that was a really full circle 263 00:14:26,894 --> 00:14:30,014 Speaker 5: moment in confirming what I knew when I ended it, 264 00:14:30,414 --> 00:14:33,654 Speaker 5: which was quite endearing, and it was really funny at 265 00:14:33,654 --> 00:14:34,054 Speaker 5: the time. 266 00:14:34,934 --> 00:14:37,854 Speaker 2: Women who've encountered chatfishing in their dating lives say the 267 00:14:37,934 --> 00:14:40,854 Speaker 2: signs are there, especially when you rock up to that 268 00:14:40,934 --> 00:14:45,494 Speaker 2: first date expecting romance and engaging conversation, but instead of 269 00:14:45,614 --> 00:14:48,574 Speaker 2: left with someone who speaks in three words sentences or 270 00:14:48,854 --> 00:14:52,414 Speaker 2: has no banter at all. Mamma Mia Associate editor m 271 00:14:52,494 --> 00:14:57,574 Speaker 2: Vernham has experienced chatfishing firsthand. M Why are people leaving 272 00:14:57,574 --> 00:14:59,134 Speaker 2: their love lives up to AI? 273 00:14:59,854 --> 00:15:02,894 Speaker 3: I think because we are now in the age where 274 00:15:02,934 --> 00:15:07,654 Speaker 3: we're just using AI for everything. I know personally, sometimes 275 00:15:07,694 --> 00:15:10,134 Speaker 3: I get into the flow of his AI and I 276 00:15:10,174 --> 00:15:11,854 Speaker 3: just kind of treated like a friend, like I'm texting 277 00:15:11,854 --> 00:15:14,294 Speaker 3: my friend all the time and it's actually AI. I 278 00:15:14,294 --> 00:15:16,174 Speaker 3: feel like now we're just trying to use AI to 279 00:15:16,254 --> 00:15:19,334 Speaker 3: insert it into every little bit of our lives, to 280 00:15:19,374 --> 00:15:21,654 Speaker 3: make our lives as easy as possible. 281 00:15:21,734 --> 00:15:25,014 Speaker 2: Okay, so you've had first experience with chat fishing. I have. 282 00:15:25,294 --> 00:15:26,894 Speaker 2: How can you tell when someone's doing it? 283 00:15:27,054 --> 00:15:29,894 Speaker 3: There are so many little signs, and I feel like 284 00:15:29,894 --> 00:15:32,134 Speaker 3: it's only if you use AI you can actually really 285 00:15:32,174 --> 00:15:35,574 Speaker 3: tell when someone's doing it. For example, I got messaged 286 00:15:35,614 --> 00:15:38,894 Speaker 3: by a person that I was talking to on and 287 00:15:38,934 --> 00:15:41,334 Speaker 3: off on a dating app, and one of the messages 288 00:15:41,414 --> 00:15:45,094 Speaker 3: he sent, the whole message was in quotation marks, and 289 00:15:45,174 --> 00:15:47,054 Speaker 3: if you use AI, you know that they send you 290 00:15:47,134 --> 00:15:49,294 Speaker 3: like prompts and then he probably just like copied and 291 00:15:49,294 --> 00:15:53,294 Speaker 3: pasted from AI. I've also had a friend tell me 292 00:15:53,414 --> 00:15:56,894 Speaker 3: that she had a message being sent to her from 293 00:15:56,934 --> 00:16:00,854 Speaker 3: a guy and the entire AI prompt was included. 294 00:16:00,414 --> 00:16:03,694 Speaker 2: Oh that's criminal in the message. I feel like we've 295 00:16:03,694 --> 00:16:06,254 Speaker 2: been told you can tell when something's AI because of 296 00:16:06,254 --> 00:16:07,774 Speaker 2: the use of the mdash. 297 00:16:07,694 --> 00:16:12,214 Speaker 3: M, dashes, the punctuation like it's just a perfectly crafted text, 298 00:16:12,254 --> 00:16:14,454 Speaker 3: and it's always a bit more formal than what you 299 00:16:14,494 --> 00:16:17,654 Speaker 3: would usually say, because I guess AI still has to 300 00:16:17,654 --> 00:16:20,134 Speaker 3: be trained on how to speak like you, and I 301 00:16:20,134 --> 00:16:22,414 Speaker 3: feel like, also the way we speak is so different 302 00:16:22,414 --> 00:16:24,494 Speaker 3: to the way we text. Yeah, sure, and I don't 303 00:16:24,494 --> 00:16:26,054 Speaker 3: think AI has caught onto that yet. 304 00:16:26,054 --> 00:16:27,974 Speaker 2: Well, because you want to appear I mean, I say, 305 00:16:27,974 --> 00:16:30,374 Speaker 2: this is someone who doesn't online date, but I imagine 306 00:16:30,374 --> 00:16:33,134 Speaker 2: you want to appear like really casual and like you're 307 00:16:33,214 --> 00:16:36,414 Speaker 2: so chill and like I'm so nice. And then if 308 00:16:36,454 --> 00:16:41,454 Speaker 2: you're sending like love sonnets and dashes everywhere, that kind 309 00:16:41,454 --> 00:16:42,454 Speaker 2: of ruins the fantasy. 310 00:16:42,574 --> 00:16:45,254 Speaker 3: It works if I feel like you're genuinely using it 311 00:16:45,294 --> 00:16:48,894 Speaker 3: to help have conversations. I know a few people who 312 00:16:48,974 --> 00:16:52,094 Speaker 3: are neurodiverse use it because it helps them have conversations, 313 00:16:52,414 --> 00:16:54,654 Speaker 3: and it also helps them understand what the person their 314 00:16:54,774 --> 00:16:58,574 Speaker 3: texting is saying. Also, I think from what I've seen, 315 00:16:58,614 --> 00:17:00,654 Speaker 3: it's more men using it than women. 316 00:17:00,734 --> 00:17:02,454 Speaker 2: Oh that's interesting, And I think it's. 317 00:17:02,334 --> 00:17:05,494 Speaker 3: Also because men are traditionally not that good at texting. 318 00:17:06,254 --> 00:17:08,094 Speaker 2: Is it a victimist crime then, I mean like, what's 319 00:17:08,134 --> 00:17:10,694 Speaker 2: the danger if you are gonna chatfish someone? 320 00:17:10,934 --> 00:17:13,934 Speaker 3: Well, if you get so into chatfishing, it ends up 321 00:17:13,974 --> 00:17:17,654 Speaker 3: being where you actually aren't really reading the message the 322 00:17:17,694 --> 00:17:20,414 Speaker 3: person saying, you're just immediately copying it, putting into AI 323 00:17:20,574 --> 00:17:22,814 Speaker 3: and then pasting in a reply. And then you get 324 00:17:22,814 --> 00:17:24,694 Speaker 3: to the date. And these are the stories I've heard 325 00:17:24,734 --> 00:17:28,094 Speaker 3: where mostly women are going on these dates and then 326 00:17:28,094 --> 00:17:30,254 Speaker 3: they realized that the person they're on the date with 327 00:17:30,494 --> 00:17:33,014 Speaker 3: is so different to the person they've been texting with, 328 00:17:33,254 --> 00:17:34,814 Speaker 3: and that's because they've been texting an airbot. 329 00:17:34,894 --> 00:17:38,374 Speaker 2: That's such disappointment. I mean, you've been chatfish. 330 00:17:37,934 --> 00:17:39,214 Speaker 3: I haven't changed fished. 331 00:17:39,334 --> 00:17:41,254 Speaker 2: What happened when? Like, how'd you figure it out? And 332 00:17:41,254 --> 00:17:42,854 Speaker 2: did you end up going on a date with this person? 333 00:17:43,174 --> 00:17:46,694 Speaker 3: I figured it out because the message was an entirely 334 00:17:46,814 --> 00:17:50,334 Speaker 3: quotation marks and I was like this, it's so funny. 335 00:17:50,494 --> 00:17:53,014 Speaker 3: I laughed it off for a bit, but since that 336 00:17:53,134 --> 00:17:56,654 Speaker 3: initial message, I started questioning every message. And it might 337 00:17:56,694 --> 00:17:58,454 Speaker 3: have been AI, might not have been. But I was 338 00:17:58,494 --> 00:18:00,734 Speaker 3: a bit creeped out by the whole experience, so I 339 00:18:00,734 --> 00:18:01,814 Speaker 3: didn't go on a date with him. 340 00:18:01,854 --> 00:18:02,934 Speaker 2: Would you ever do it yourself? 341 00:18:03,174 --> 00:18:03,374 Speaker 1: No? 342 00:18:03,534 --> 00:18:05,574 Speaker 3: I have though, and I have to admit to this. 343 00:18:06,014 --> 00:18:09,894 Speaker 3: I have employed AI to decipher. 344 00:18:10,334 --> 00:18:11,294 Speaker 2: Okay, that's different. 345 00:18:11,334 --> 00:18:14,494 Speaker 3: Though it's different, I'm not like copying and pasting their answers, 346 00:18:14,614 --> 00:18:17,614 Speaker 3: but I think it's helpful in a way to act 347 00:18:17,654 --> 00:18:19,774 Speaker 3: as like a third party to help decipher a message. 348 00:18:19,774 --> 00:18:22,694 Speaker 3: It's kind of similar to how we send text messages 349 00:18:22,694 --> 00:18:24,974 Speaker 3: to our girl group chat and ask them how should 350 00:18:25,014 --> 00:18:26,974 Speaker 3: I reply, except by asking your bot. 351 00:18:28,174 --> 00:18:30,254 Speaker 2: Thanks for taking some time to feed your mind with 352 00:18:30,334 --> 00:18:33,294 Speaker 2: us today. The quickie is produced by me Taylor Strano, 353 00:18:33,414 --> 00:18:37,494 Speaker 2: Ilaria Brophy, and clar Murphy, with audio production by Lou Hill.