WEBVTT - 'Stop Fantasising About Me' & Why Posh Didn't Cheer 0:00:03.080 --> 0:00:06.480 Hello, and welcome to Mama Maya out Loud. It's what 0:00:06.519 --> 0:00:09.719 women are actually talking about on Wednesday, the fifteenth of July. 0:00:09.880 --> 0:00:13.120 And I'm Holly Wainwright, I'm Amelia Luster, and. 0:00:13.160 --> 0:00:14.200 I am Vernon. 0:00:14.760 --> 0:00:18.079 And here's what made the agenda for today. In one 0:00:18.239 --> 0:00:20.799 bleak week, we have lost four women and girls to 0:00:20.920 --> 0:00:24.960 violence in Australia, and we also got one tiny glimmer 0:00:25.000 --> 0:00:28.960 of hope. Plus we've all heard of fan fiction, but 0:00:29.000 --> 0:00:32.120 there's a new subset that's a bit more troublesome. 0:00:32.520 --> 0:00:34.560 And there's some celebrities who are pushing back. 0:00:35.280 --> 0:00:38.760 And look, Sarah's got some deadly pants. Boobs are back, 0:00:39.080 --> 0:00:41.199 and you need to stop washing your gym clothes. I 0:00:41.400 --> 0:00:43.760 have a fashion news update that no one asks for. 0:00:44.479 --> 0:00:45.920 But first, Emily Vernon. 0:00:46.520 --> 0:00:50.159 Women who hate sport have a new patron Saints and 0:00:50.200 --> 0:00:54.600 she goes by the name Victoria Beckham. Lady Becky, Lady Becky, 0:00:54.680 --> 0:00:58.440 Baby Beckham. So on the weekend, everyone, and I mean everyone, 0:00:58.840 --> 0:01:00.960 actually I don't know about your men. We're watching the 0:01:01.000 --> 0:01:06.840 England watching watching the England versus Norway World Cup match. 0:01:07.000 --> 0:01:10.240 Football fans were watching it because depending which team one meant, 0:01:10.280 --> 0:01:11.399 their journey would continue. 0:01:11.440 --> 0:01:12.440 Towards the World Cup. 0:01:12.840 --> 0:01:15.400 The girlies like myself were watching it because we wanted 0:01:15.400 --> 0:01:18.679 to see Bettingham and Harland. 0:01:18.319 --> 0:01:20.440 Bellingham and Harland, the romance. 0:01:20.319 --> 0:01:22.120 Hug on hug on the stage. 0:01:22.200 --> 0:01:25.679 The court of the Sales called Jesus Christ, she's not 0:01:25.720 --> 0:01:27.120 the sports. 0:01:27.440 --> 0:01:30.920 He got the pitch one the pitch. That's a cricket pitch. No, 0:01:31.120 --> 0:01:32.880 it's a football pitch. Sorry, I'm so sorry. 0:01:32.920 --> 0:01:36.080 Everyone don't remember me say ground you could accept, but 0:01:36.080 --> 0:01:36.280 it is. 0:01:36.319 --> 0:01:37.080 It's a football pitch. 0:01:37.080 --> 0:01:40.160 Okay, football pitch. We got two hugs. I counted and 0:01:40.240 --> 0:01:42.200 that's all I needed. And then I left and then 0:01:42.280 --> 0:01:44.440 some points happened and they came back and everyone was 0:01:44.520 --> 0:01:45.480 cheering points. 0:01:45.560 --> 0:01:46.600 I apologize. 0:01:46.720 --> 0:01:50.280 I apologize for every footballing fan in the nation. 0:01:50.600 --> 0:01:52.279 On behalf of Miamily there. 0:01:52.320 --> 0:01:56.240 Was a very very famous family watching the game in 0:01:56.280 --> 0:01:58.880 the crowd. The Beckhams, the whole family. 0:01:58.760 --> 0:02:00.720 Minus Brooklyn, we don't about that. 0:02:01.000 --> 0:02:04.480 Were there sitting in a row best seats in the house. 0:02:04.560 --> 0:02:06.800 I wonder if Brooklyn actually, now that you mention that. 0:02:06.960 --> 0:02:08.880 I wonder if he was watching it at home, and 0:02:08.960 --> 0:02:11.200 if he can cheer for England anymore. 0:02:11.040 --> 0:02:12.760 Oh, come on, surely he can. 0:02:13.280 --> 0:02:14.880 They kind of belong to his dad. 0:02:15.360 --> 0:02:17.480 Anyway, we digress. That's not what we're here to do, 0:02:17.560 --> 0:02:20.480 because it is it is David's team. Yeah, he used 0:02:20.480 --> 0:02:22.679 to play for England. Surely he played for England. He 0:02:22.760 --> 0:02:24.520 used to play for England. He was really good, but 0:02:24.560 --> 0:02:25.840 he also got the death threats. 0:02:25.880 --> 0:02:29.600 Remember anyway, we digress, Okay, keep going anyway. 0:02:29.960 --> 0:02:30.919 Norway scores. 0:02:32.040 --> 0:02:34.840 English fans very very anxious, so like, what's going to happen, 0:02:34.880 --> 0:02:35.600 What's going to happen? 0:02:35.639 --> 0:02:36.440 What's going to happen? 0:02:36.960 --> 0:02:40.000 And then just as they were about to break for halftime, 0:02:40.680 --> 0:02:45.280 England scores roaring. I could hear it from my TV. 0:02:45.520 --> 0:02:48.920 The crowd was going so loud, screaming. I could see 0:02:49.000 --> 0:02:51.799 drinks being thrown up in the air. Everyone's having a 0:02:51.800 --> 0:02:57.600 good time. Not one single person was sitting in their seat. 0:02:59.400 --> 0:03:02.320 I was really joining this match report, except there was 0:03:02.360 --> 0:03:06.480 one wasn't There was one person Victoria Beckham sitting there 0:03:06.680 --> 0:03:10.840 watching what is happening? Saw that England scored looking like this? 0:03:11.080 --> 0:03:12.480 Did she even smile? 0:03:13.680 --> 0:03:16.120 And the thing that's so striking about the photo and 0:03:16.120 --> 0:03:18.880 why it's done the rounds and become a meme is because. 0:03:19.080 --> 0:03:20.840 David is out of his seat. 0:03:20.919 --> 0:03:25.800 He's like h and Romeo and Cruise and they're all 0:03:25.880 --> 0:03:28.560 like leaping around and she's just sitting there. 0:03:29.440 --> 0:03:29.840 Amazing. 0:03:30.000 --> 0:03:31.400 I can't decide what it says. 0:03:31.520 --> 0:03:34.639 I think she was meditating, or maybe she was manifesting 0:03:34.680 --> 0:03:35.600 the win for them. 0:03:36.000 --> 0:03:37.240 You think she was channeling. 0:03:37.440 --> 0:03:41.160 Yeah, because I get that lots of people don't like football, 0:03:41.200 --> 0:03:43.960 and I guess there'll be lots or all kinds of sport, 0:03:44.080 --> 0:03:46.480 and I get that there'll be lots of people listening 0:03:46.480 --> 0:03:49.040 to this male and female who are like that is me. 0:03:49.280 --> 0:03:52.480 I do not care. I don't get excited, but it 0:03:52.640 --> 0:03:56.280 takes a particular kind of self possession, I think to 0:03:56.360 --> 0:03:59.880 be sitting in a stadium of sixty five thousand people 0:04:00.080 --> 0:04:04.200 in really hot weather, all the energy of. 0:04:04.200 --> 0:04:07.160 Well, as we know from former sports gross Band and 0:04:07.360 --> 0:04:12.520 Claire Stevens, America and American sports fans are more enthusiastic 0:04:12.560 --> 0:04:17.520 about sports than Australians. That's what she said on the show, 0:04:18.120 --> 0:04:19.960 and so to not even pick up on. 0:04:19.960 --> 0:04:22.279 That, Yeah, but also the place is full of Brits 0:04:22.279 --> 0:04:25.320 who are losing their mind, full of Norwegians doing their rowing, 0:04:25.440 --> 0:04:27.720 to Americans who just decided it was a good day 0:04:27.760 --> 0:04:30.560 out and we're bringing their energy, Like it is very 0:04:30.600 --> 0:04:34.920 hard to resist that. If you're watching Tiddleywinks and everybody's 0:04:34.960 --> 0:04:37.240 really into it, you get into it. Yeah, so I 0:04:37.279 --> 0:04:40.360 think it's an amazing It's either that one of two. 0:04:40.600 --> 0:04:42.960 I have one of two theories about this. Either she's 0:04:43.160 --> 0:04:46.880 so cool, so self possessed that like she's just completely 0:04:46.960 --> 0:04:52.200 unaffected by her surroundings at all times, or she cannot 0:04:52.279 --> 0:04:55.520 ever because of the all of the paparazzi attention, all 0:04:55.520 --> 0:04:57.440 those things lose control in public. 0:04:57.839 --> 0:04:58.560 Do you know what I mean? 0:04:59.400 --> 0:05:02.560 Because even if you don't care, it's kind. 0:05:02.320 --> 0:05:06.600 Of almost impossible to not leap around, but not even 0:05:06.640 --> 0:05:08.480 just standing up and doing that, Like she could have 0:05:08.520 --> 0:05:12.800 just stood up and just been like cheers. But you 0:05:12.839 --> 0:05:15.800 know who else she's the patron stave for is women 0:05:15.920 --> 0:05:18.520 who you know how lots of Well this actually goes 0:05:18.520 --> 0:05:20.840 both ways, but you know how, you get really invested 0:05:20.880 --> 0:05:25.240 in your partner's enthusiasms. Right, So you might not like football, 0:05:25.560 --> 0:05:27.800 but you date someone who likes football and you get 0:05:27.800 --> 0:05:28.719 introduced to football. 0:05:28.760 --> 0:05:30.440 This has Taylor Swift story, right. 0:05:30.800 --> 0:05:33.880 She doesn't like football, different kind of football, starts dating 0:05:33.920 --> 0:05:34.479 that guy. 0:05:34.640 --> 0:05:36.560 She got a mixed up with cricket. I'm pretty sure 0:05:36.560 --> 0:05:36.920 I want. 0:05:37.040 --> 0:05:40.359 You Suddenly she loves it, not because she's faking it, 0:05:40.400 --> 0:05:41.760 but because she's been introduced to. 0:05:41.680 --> 0:05:44.240 Her She's eating chicken fingers and dipping them in ranch 0:05:44.520 --> 0:05:45.880 football games. 0:05:45.520 --> 0:05:49.320 And she's watching watching them backstage before she goes on. 0:05:51.040 --> 0:05:51.960 You just get around it. 0:05:52.200 --> 0:05:55.640 Vicky B is the antithesis of that. She's had thirty 0:05:55.720 --> 0:05:59.559 years of this shit and she's just like, you've tried 0:05:59.560 --> 0:06:01.760 to adopt me and I'm not having it, Like why 0:06:01.760 --> 0:06:02.120 are we here? 0:06:02.160 --> 0:06:04.440 None of us are on the field. Sorry. 0:06:04.560 --> 0:06:07.280 In some ways it shows like an admirable sense of self. 0:06:07.360 --> 0:06:07.640 It does. 0:06:08.360 --> 0:06:08.840 I don't know. 0:06:08.920 --> 0:06:11.920 I won't be doing it tomorrow. By the way, your 0:06:12.000 --> 0:06:14.560 match report was excellent, and so I'm a little outdated 0:06:14.720 --> 0:06:16.880 because at five am tomorrow, maybe people have we listening 0:06:16.880 --> 0:06:19.240 to this will have already happened. David will be leaping 0:06:19.240 --> 0:06:21.640 around again. Do you think we'll see our unbothered queen 0:06:21.839 --> 0:06:24.080 the game tomorrow? And it might have already happened, depending 0:06:24.120 --> 0:06:26.800 when he listened to this. Of course, England Argentina is 0:06:26.800 --> 0:06:29.640 in Atlanta, Georgia. I don't know that Vicky B's traveling 0:06:29.680 --> 0:06:30.320 there well. 0:06:30.360 --> 0:06:34.360 Also on the upside, though, Nicola Peltz, a billionaire heiress, 0:06:34.440 --> 0:06:36.200 has never been to Atlanta, Georgia. 0:06:36.240 --> 0:06:38.719 I can say this with some certainty. 0:06:38.760 --> 0:06:40.880 So she's not going to worry about bumping into them, 0:06:41.240 --> 0:06:44.440 but it's another chance for her to just like I'm 0:06:44.480 --> 0:06:49.920 excited Nicole Kidman Club I have. It's been an unfathomably 0:06:50.080 --> 0:06:53.880 dark week in Australia. Four women, in fact, two women 0:06:54.040 --> 0:06:57.760 and two girls have lost their lives allegedly at the 0:06:57.839 --> 0:07:02.520 hands of male violence. It's incredibly distressing and very dark. 0:07:03.240 --> 0:07:06.040 There's one story in this space we wanted to talk 0:07:06.080 --> 0:07:09.120 about today, though, that gives us a little bit of hope, 0:07:09.240 --> 0:07:12.840 a little bit of light. If you're wondering why when 0:07:12.840 --> 0:07:15.720 I'm talking about this, I'm not giving more details of 0:07:15.800 --> 0:07:18.480 the women whose lives have been lost or the men 0:07:18.520 --> 0:07:21.239 who've been charged with these alleged crimes, it's for legal 0:07:21.280 --> 0:07:26.200 reasons and for not wanting to jeopardize justice or justice 0:07:26.240 --> 0:07:29.280 being served in any way at all, right, because really, 0:07:29.440 --> 0:07:32.520 the hope of justice being served in cases like these 0:07:33.040 --> 0:07:35.960 is really all we have to hold on to at 0:07:36.000 --> 0:07:38.320 times like this, and sometimes it doesn't feel like the 0:07:38.360 --> 0:07:43.480 world that world takes violence against women seriously enough. Australia's 0:07:43.520 --> 0:07:48.960 family violence statistics are stubbornly bad. It is now nearly 0:07:49.080 --> 0:07:52.559 four years since the government pledged to reduce the number 0:07:52.560 --> 0:07:56.000 of deaths family violence deaths by twenty five percent every year. 0:07:56.440 --> 0:08:00.960 That has absolutely not happened. The statistics are bad and 0:08:01.080 --> 0:08:03.880 at this time of view, compared to last worse. They're 0:08:03.880 --> 0:08:07.280 getting worse, not better, And I think for many of us. 0:08:07.280 --> 0:08:09.160 I wrote a story about this on Mamameir this week. 0:08:09.640 --> 0:08:12.360 It will also be a newsletter that I feel like 0:08:12.560 --> 0:08:16.200 I have written many times. I could only imagine the 0:08:16.240 --> 0:08:18.920 frustration of the people who work in this area and 0:08:19.000 --> 0:08:22.080 how they're feeling to have to keep pushing and keep pushing, 0:08:22.080 --> 0:08:24.360 and then a week like this comes up and everybody 0:08:24.400 --> 0:08:28.160 talks about it, and then everybody moves on. Obviously, the 0:08:28.160 --> 0:08:31.400 families of those two girls, two women who are lost 0:08:31.400 --> 0:08:34.280 this week cannot move on. But I want to bring 0:08:34.360 --> 0:08:37.439 us to a tiny glimmer of good in this space 0:08:37.480 --> 0:08:40.520 that was discussed this week. This is about sexual violence. 0:08:41.480 --> 0:08:44.959 Judge Ryan Hadrick was presiding over his court room on 0:08:45.040 --> 0:08:48.200 July the ninth in Brisbane and he's been hearing the 0:08:48.240 --> 0:08:50.920 case of a thirty five year old man who pleaded 0:08:50.960 --> 0:08:55.320 guilty to sexually assaulting a fourteen year old girl. Now, yes, 0:08:55.360 --> 0:08:58.400 the man had admitted to sexually assaulting this girl at 0:08:58.400 --> 0:09:02.240 his home, but his lawyer was leading for leniency in sentencing. 0:09:02.559 --> 0:09:05.400 He was saying that the incident had lasted no more 0:09:05.440 --> 0:09:08.360 than five minutes, and that at that five minute mark 0:09:08.440 --> 0:09:11.520 the perpetrator had realized that his actions were wrong and 0:09:11.600 --> 0:09:15.600 he stopped. The barrister, Damien Gates, told the court the 0:09:15.640 --> 0:09:19.200 penile intercourse lasted five minutes, not more than that. It 0:09:19.320 --> 0:09:23.679 was poor impulse control. The Courier Mail reported Judge Hadrick 0:09:23.840 --> 0:09:26.840 listened to this argument and then he told the barrister 0:09:26.920 --> 0:09:29.440 to sit down. The proposition I'm putting through to you 0:09:29.480 --> 0:09:32.079 and your client, he said, is that in five minutes 0:09:32.120 --> 0:09:34.520 engaging in sexual conduct with a fourteen year old, the 0:09:34.520 --> 0:09:37.920 penny should have dropped before it occurred. It's a long 0:09:38.000 --> 0:09:40.640 time to continue engaging in a sexual act while you 0:09:40.720 --> 0:09:43.480 know the wrongness of that conduct. And then he made 0:09:43.520 --> 0:09:46.600 the whole court sit in silence for five minutes. 0:09:47.200 --> 0:09:51.200 When I read this story, I did exactly that. I 0:09:51.280 --> 0:09:53.160 put a time on my phone for five minutes and 0:09:53.200 --> 0:09:56.440 I just sat in silence. And it's so hard to 0:09:56.440 --> 0:09:59.840 not get teary because it's so confronting, so upsetting. 0:10:00.400 --> 0:10:02.720 Five minutes at a long time. It's a long time. 0:10:02.840 --> 0:10:06.920 If we stopped talking on this podcast for five seconds, 0:10:06.960 --> 0:10:10.719 for ten seconds, for a minute, it would feel like eternity. 0:10:11.440 --> 0:10:13.560 And some people are saying, well, that's it was a 0:10:13.559 --> 0:10:15.640 bit of a stunt what the judge did. It was 0:10:15.679 --> 0:10:17.719 a stunt, but it was a very well thought out 0:10:17.760 --> 0:10:20.880 stunt because it brought a lot of attention to this 0:10:21.080 --> 0:10:24.960 case and made people really consider what had happened. 0:10:25.360 --> 0:10:25.839 He said. 0:10:26.280 --> 0:10:29.080 And the man in this case can't be named, even 0:10:29.080 --> 0:10:33.040 though he pled guilty and he was found guilty, because 0:10:33.520 --> 0:10:36.480 the victim's identity is being protected, of course, But he 0:10:36.600 --> 0:10:38.440 said the judge, he said, we're not talking about a 0:10:38.480 --> 0:10:41.040 sexual interaction that is seconds of complaint. We are talking 0:10:41.080 --> 0:10:43.559 about a sustained act that will do significant damage to 0:10:43.600 --> 0:10:46.240 this child over her forthcoming years. We live in an 0:10:46.280 --> 0:10:48.680 age where we are very clear understanding now that we 0:10:48.720 --> 0:10:51.360 didn't in earlier times of the pernicious nature of this 0:10:51.400 --> 0:10:54.199 sort of sexual offending that can stay in the mind 0:10:54.240 --> 0:10:57.080 and stay in the life story of a victim for years, 0:10:57.160 --> 0:10:59.800 if not decades to come. It robs that child of 0:10:59.800 --> 0:11:02.079 their innocence, but also many things that they should be 0:11:02.160 --> 0:11:04.760 able to take for granted, like trust in men and 0:11:04.960 --> 0:11:08.280 understanding of what is sexually appropriate and not appropriate. The 0:11:08.400 --> 0:11:11.800 damage just rattles on through the ages, and that's because 0:11:11.880 --> 0:11:16.400 of your immature, immoral, and frankly selfish conduct on this occasion. 0:11:17.040 --> 0:11:22.880 And sexual assault advocates and child protection campaigners are celebrating 0:11:22.920 --> 0:11:26.400 the fact that this judge, in pulling this stunt in 0:11:26.400 --> 0:11:29.040 inverted Commas, has brought so much attention to it, but 0:11:29.200 --> 0:11:33.760 also acknowledging very publicly the impact of a crime like this, 0:11:33.840 --> 0:11:36.440 which is clearly what the barrister was trying not to do. 0:11:36.520 --> 0:11:37.600 He was trying to dismiss it. 0:11:37.679 --> 0:11:42.040 So I don't necessarily fault the barrister, but I think 0:11:42.559 --> 0:11:46.280 what's happening here is that we're feeling women are feeling 0:11:46.400 --> 0:11:50.440 frustrated that the legal system in general does not seem 0:11:50.520 --> 0:11:54.839 equipped to deal with the severity of these types of crimes. 0:11:55.400 --> 0:11:58.520 And whether it's because there's an implicit bias about women 0:11:58.800 --> 0:12:02.720 being not quite humanomen or crimes against women and girls 0:12:02.800 --> 0:12:06.400 being not quite as serious as other crimes, I don't 0:12:06.480 --> 0:12:10.440 know what the reason is, but just today I read 0:12:10.440 --> 0:12:13.520 in the Nine newspapers that there have been two recent 0:12:13.800 --> 0:12:17.280 rape cases in New South Wales where a man was 0:12:17.320 --> 0:12:20.640 found guilty of rape. He was convicted, but he was 0:12:20.720 --> 0:12:25.200 not sent to prison for rape. And that doesn't feel right. 0:12:25.640 --> 0:12:28.360 And it took by the way a man writing a 0:12:28.400 --> 0:12:31.480 former magistrate, a man writing this in the nine newspapers. 0:12:31.520 --> 0:12:34.720 I wonder if sometimes, for some reason, we as a 0:12:34.720 --> 0:12:37.560 society need to hear this from men, not from women. 0:12:38.120 --> 0:12:44.120 Yeah, I what you said earlier whole when we tried 0:12:44.160 --> 0:12:48.320 to find these kind of glimmers of hope, Because in 0:12:48.360 --> 0:12:51.240 any other world when we hear this story, there is 0:12:51.320 --> 0:12:54.080 a universe where we would just think that that would 0:12:54.160 --> 0:12:57.280 be a good like a get enough excuse, and we 0:12:57.280 --> 0:12:59.120 would be like, oh, and the judge would accept that, 0:12:59.160 --> 0:13:01.080 and that will be fine. That's just what we've learned 0:13:01.120 --> 0:13:04.800 to accept over and over again. It's important to remember 0:13:04.920 --> 0:13:08.559 that this story is so powerful and waiting for those 0:13:08.640 --> 0:13:13.240 like waiting in silence in those five minutes, because if 0:13:13.240 --> 0:13:15.960 we take this and see this as like, thank God 0:13:16.000 --> 0:13:17.960 he said that, then God that was like, it's not 0:13:18.040 --> 0:13:20.040 the best thing that could have happened. And I feel 0:13:20.040 --> 0:13:21.960 like sometimes we take these stories and I'm like, that 0:13:22.120 --> 0:13:24.679 was amazing that he did that. But it's only a really, 0:13:24.720 --> 0:13:26.320 really tiny small bit of. 0:13:26.200 --> 0:13:28.880 Hope, it is, And I absolutely get that. I think 0:13:28.920 --> 0:13:33.120 that it's to Amelia's point in a way, when nothing 0:13:33.200 --> 0:13:37.079 seems to be changing in terms of the horrific nature 0:13:37.120 --> 0:13:40.440 of this level of violence, sexual violence and family violence 0:13:40.440 --> 0:13:43.360 and domestic balance, when nothing seems to be changing, that 0:13:43.520 --> 0:13:46.800 it feels like and Australia isn't alone in this. This 0:13:46.840 --> 0:13:49.200 is an issue all over the world and some countries 0:13:49.520 --> 0:13:51.240 have taken different kinds of steps to deal with it. 0:13:51.280 --> 0:13:52.079 But it feels like. 0:13:52.080 --> 0:13:55.520 In a way, there's a collective shrug of well, what 0:13:55.559 --> 0:13:56.319 are you going to do? 0:13:56.559 --> 0:13:57.240 You know what I mean? 0:13:57.320 --> 0:14:04.440 Like, this is human nature, this is masculinity. I don't 0:14:04.440 --> 0:14:09.360 know whatever the sort of justification for it is. It 0:14:09.440 --> 0:14:11.680 sometimes feel like there's a big collective shrug. And so 0:14:12.280 --> 0:14:16.960 women are almost ridiculously grateful for a moment like this 0:14:17.000 --> 0:14:19.880 where a male judge seems to actually get, like, seems 0:14:19.880 --> 0:14:24.480 to actually get that this moment of poor impulse control 0:14:24.840 --> 0:14:27.400 will have an impact on that girl forever. And the 0:14:27.480 --> 0:14:31.560 women lost this week are not statistics. The impact of 0:14:31.600 --> 0:14:33.840 what has happened to them will rattle through their families 0:14:33.840 --> 0:14:36.840 and rattle through their communities, and rattle through the stories 0:14:36.880 --> 0:14:39.640 of all women in a way about how unsafe we are, 0:14:39.720 --> 0:14:41.920 even in the places we're supposed to be safest, And 0:14:41.960 --> 0:14:44.920 so I think we just want to grab onto anything 0:14:44.960 --> 0:14:46.920 that feels like maybe things are changing. 0:14:47.720 --> 0:14:51.680 If this conversation has brought up anything for you, will 0:14:51.680 --> 0:14:53.560 have some resources in the show notes. 0:14:53.680 --> 0:14:55.000 We'll be back after this break. 0:14:55.560 --> 0:14:57.160 How was your day in these trousers? 0:14:57.160 --> 0:14:59.240 That's what we need to know. It troubles them. 0:15:00.240 --> 0:15:03.960 I'm not injured, but I had a few nit misses, 0:15:04.600 --> 0:15:08.880 especially on stairs up and downstairs, and I've almost gotten 0:15:08.960 --> 0:15:11.480 caught in some bust doors as well. 0:15:12.240 --> 0:15:15.320 They're super flappy. They are just so so long. 0:15:15.400 --> 0:15:17.880 You just have to constantly hold them up as you're walking, 0:15:18.040 --> 0:15:20.280 or you know, you get them caught in an escalator 0:15:20.360 --> 0:15:21.200 or a list door or. 0:15:21.200 --> 0:15:22.000 Something like that. 0:15:22.040 --> 0:15:24.640 It's the flair, I mean, it's the width of the 0:15:24.800 --> 0:15:26.400 relatively narrow road. 0:15:27.040 --> 0:15:28.840 Great, it's just crazy huge. 0:15:28.960 --> 0:15:30.840 Yes, it also kind of just makes you look like 0:15:30.880 --> 0:15:32.720 you've got one giant leg as well. 0:15:32.880 --> 0:15:34.560 What are we talking? An investigation? 0:15:35.240 --> 0:15:39.640 That was Times Fashion stylist Susie Lethbridge on what people 0:15:39.720 --> 0:15:44.840 are calling the Czara death pants. A flowing Palazzo trouser 0:15:45.200 --> 0:15:48.240 retails for about sixty five dollars, comes in a variety 0:15:48.240 --> 0:15:51.640 of colors and which became the subject of a separate 0:15:51.760 --> 0:15:56.520 SEATNN investigation this week. Let's hear from CNN supervising producer 0:15:56.800 --> 0:16:00.080 Evaniskatola on this important story. 0:16:00.200 --> 0:16:02.840 Pose injuries of scrapes on their knees or hands, but 0:16:02.920 --> 0:16:05.600 some others have posted about a bruised ankle and even 0:16:05.600 --> 0:16:09.400 a broken elbow on social media. Some dokingly say they 0:16:09.480 --> 0:16:13.120 fallen victim to the pants. The flowing, wide legged trousers 0:16:13.120 --> 0:16:16.360 come in multiple colors online and are marketed at forty 0:16:16.360 --> 0:16:19.200 five dollars. These women say it's not the length that's 0:16:19.240 --> 0:16:21.920 the problem, but more the width of the trousers. They're 0:16:21.960 --> 0:16:24.200 so wide that their feet get caught and then they trip. 0:16:24.920 --> 0:16:27.800 CNN reached out to Zara that they didn't respond. 0:16:28.720 --> 0:16:31.880 So we're still waiting on comment from Zara. At the 0:16:31.920 --> 0:16:35.840 time of recording, they have not released any kind of statement, 0:16:36.280 --> 0:16:39.680 but there have been more than two thousand tiktoks about 0:16:39.760 --> 0:16:44.080 the deadly trousers, and they're often using CCTV to verify 0:16:44.280 --> 0:16:47.080 their claims about just how dangerous these pants are God 0:16:47.120 --> 0:16:52.320 for you, Amelia Lester, it's a psam. Have you fallen 0:16:52.400 --> 0:16:54.080 victim to the Zara death pants? 0:16:54.160 --> 0:16:56.960 I haven't fallen victim to these specific pants, but I 0:16:57.040 --> 0:17:00.400 have fallen victim to flowy pants. In the park, I 0:17:00.440 --> 0:17:04.000 had something happened to me ten years ago. It felt 0:17:04.000 --> 0:17:06.240 like yesterday because my brain likes to remind me of 0:17:06.240 --> 0:17:09.399 the story. At three am most nights, I was walking 0:17:09.480 --> 0:17:11.320 up you know, in the train stations that we have 0:17:11.400 --> 0:17:13.199 in Sydney, A lot of them are you have to 0:17:13.200 --> 0:17:15.320 go upper platform and then come back down. So I 0:17:15.359 --> 0:17:18.600 was walking up this huge, long flight of stairs to 0:17:18.640 --> 0:17:21.960 get to a train, packed so many people on the staircase, 0:17:22.000 --> 0:17:24.560 and I was wearing these big flowy pants. I was 0:17:24.560 --> 0:17:28.240 probably halfway up and then my foot got caught on 0:17:28.320 --> 0:17:31.320 the top of I should mention it weren't just flowy pants. 0:17:31.080 --> 0:17:34.439 But it was a full bodysuit. Oh that went into pants. 0:17:34.520 --> 0:17:37.000 That's got less give, let's give, let's give. 0:17:37.480 --> 0:17:40.520 My foot got caught on the top of my pants 0:17:40.600 --> 0:17:43.399 as I was taking a step. Fully stacked it and 0:17:43.440 --> 0:17:47.760 then rolled down three steps and rolled. 0:17:48.240 --> 0:17:50.199 It's like a body roll, like on the front of 0:17:50.280 --> 0:17:50.760 my body. 0:17:50.800 --> 0:17:55.879 I like slipped down three steps, and then some people 0:17:56.040 --> 0:17:57.800 like were like are uk are uk? And then there's 0:17:57.880 --> 0:17:59.520 there was a guy who was right behind me, so 0:17:59.560 --> 0:18:01.199 you kind of had to like move out of the 0:18:01.200 --> 0:18:03.280 way because otherwise he would have stepped onto me. 0:18:03.640 --> 0:18:04.840 And he was like, are you all right? Can I 0:18:04.840 --> 0:18:05.080 help you? 0:18:05.160 --> 0:18:06.520 I was like no, I'm okay, I'm fine. I'm fine, 0:18:06.520 --> 0:18:10.360 I'm fine. I get up, I walk three more steps, happened. 0:18:10.040 --> 0:18:11.160 Again, Oh no? 0:18:11.440 --> 0:18:13.399 And then did he become your boyfriend? Tell me he 0:18:13.480 --> 0:18:15.000 became your because. 0:18:14.680 --> 0:18:16.160 It was a body suit. 0:18:17.040 --> 0:18:20.159 It was worse because it pulled down and it was 0:18:20.160 --> 0:18:23.120 like quite a cleavage kind of bodysuit. So not only 0:18:23.119 --> 0:18:24.679 did I step on my pant and fall down the 0:18:24.680 --> 0:18:27.919 second time, but then the top half of my bodysuit 0:18:28.000 --> 0:18:32.880 came down and like my tits were out, Oh no, 0:18:33.080 --> 0:18:34.920 and I was on the ground on these steps. I 0:18:35.720 --> 0:18:37.639 slipped down another two steps, and then he was just 0:18:37.640 --> 0:18:39.560 behind me and he was just like and trying not 0:18:39.640 --> 0:18:41.200 to look, and he was just. 0:18:41.119 --> 0:18:42.000 Like are you sure? 0:18:42.560 --> 0:18:46.480 And I was like, I'm okay, I'm okay, pulled up, 0:18:46.960 --> 0:18:49.760 put my clothes back on, and then held my pants 0:18:49.840 --> 0:18:53.320 up and then walked up the remaining a lot, and 0:18:53.400 --> 0:18:56.320 it happened all in slow motion and I couldn't stop. 0:18:56.480 --> 0:18:58.880 Did you write an angry letter to the people who 0:18:58.920 --> 0:19:00.000 made the outfit? 0:19:00.840 --> 0:19:03.840 But I think I wrote a letter to Transport News 0:19:03.880 --> 0:19:04.879 like whales about the steps. 0:19:05.240 --> 0:19:07.840 I want to I, MELI, can you describe exactly what 0:19:07.880 --> 0:19:08.879 these pants look like? 0:19:09.240 --> 0:19:12.720 Yeah, they're like platzo so that ighs like like a 0:19:12.800 --> 0:19:16.440 sort of like elastic highwaist but with extremely like pleats, 0:19:16.520 --> 0:19:20.080 and then get out into very very flowy. 0:19:20.800 --> 0:19:21.159 Look. 0:19:21.440 --> 0:19:24.840 I don't want to point fingers here, but the mistake 0:19:25.000 --> 0:19:28.600 that these women and you made here was trying to 0:19:28.600 --> 0:19:30.440 live a normal life in fashion. 0:19:31.000 --> 0:19:31.560 It doesn't work. 0:19:31.600 --> 0:19:34.320 There is there is some fashion that can only be 0:19:34.400 --> 0:19:37.280 worn by people who never catch the train. True, don't 0:19:37.320 --> 0:19:40.159 walk around because I haven't had this very experience. But 0:19:40.359 --> 0:19:43.480 we know how jeanes sometimes they get everybody wants them 0:19:43.480 --> 0:19:45.720 really long. I've got lots of jeans are a bit too long. 0:19:46.000 --> 0:19:48.080