Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Mama Maya out Loud. It's what
Speaker 1: women are actually talking about on Wednesday, the fifteenth of July.
Speaker 1: And I'm Holly Wainwright, I'm Amelia Luster, and.
Speaker 2: I am Vernon.
Speaker 1: And here's what made the agenda for today. In one
Speaker 1: bleak week, we have lost four women and girls to
Speaker 1: violence in Australia, and we also got one tiny glimmer
Speaker 1: of hope. Plus we've all heard of fan fiction, but
Speaker 1: there's a new subset that's a bit more troublesome.
Speaker 2: And there's some celebrities who are pushing back.
Speaker 3: And look, Sarah's got some deadly pants. Boobs are back,
Speaker 3: and you need to stop washing your gym clothes. I
Speaker 3: have a fashion news update that no one asks for.
Speaker 2: But first, Emily Vernon.
Speaker 4: Women who hate sport have a new patron Saints and
Speaker 4: she goes by the name Victoria Beckham. Lady Becky, Lady Becky,
Speaker 4: Baby Beckham. So on the weekend, everyone, and I mean everyone,
Speaker 4: actually I don't know about your men. We're watching the
Speaker 4: England watching watching the England versus Norway World Cup match.
Speaker 4: Football fans were watching it because depending which team one meant,
Speaker 4: their journey would continue.
Speaker 2: Towards the World Cup.
Speaker 4: The girlies like myself were watching it because we wanted
Speaker 4: to see Bettingham and Harland.
Speaker 1: Bellingham and Harland, the romance.
Speaker 2: Hug on hug on the stage.
Speaker 1: The court of the Sales called Jesus Christ, she's not
Speaker 1: the sports.
Speaker 2: He got the pitch one the pitch. That's a cricket pitch. No,
Speaker 2: it's a football pitch. Sorry, I'm so sorry.
Speaker 1: Everyone don't remember me say ground you could accept, but
Speaker 1: it is.
Speaker 2: It's a football pitch.
Speaker 4: Okay, football pitch. We got two hugs. I counted and
Speaker 4: that's all I needed. And then I left and then
Speaker 4: some points happened and they came back and everyone was
Speaker 4: cheering points.
Speaker 2: I apologize.
Speaker 1: I apologize for every footballing fan in the nation.
Speaker 2: On behalf of Miamily there.
Speaker 4: Was a very very famous family watching the game in
Speaker 4: the crowd. The Beckhams, the whole family.
Speaker 2: Minus Brooklyn, we don't about that.
Speaker 4: Were there sitting in a row best seats in the house.
Speaker 1: I wonder if Brooklyn actually, now that you mention that.
Speaker 1: I wonder if he was watching it at home, and
Speaker 1: if he can cheer for England anymore.
Speaker 2: Oh, come on, surely he can.
Speaker 1: They kind of belong to his dad.
Speaker 2: Anyway, we digress. That's not what we're here to do,
Speaker 2: because it is it is David's team. Yeah, he used
Speaker 2: to play for England. Surely he played for England. He
Speaker 2: used to play for England. He was really good, but
Speaker 2: he also got the death threats.
Speaker 1: Remember anyway, we digress, Okay, keep going anyway.
Speaker 2: Norway scores.
Speaker 4: English fans very very anxious, so like, what's going to happen,
Speaker 4: What's going to happen?
Speaker 2: What's going to happen?
Speaker 4: And then just as they were about to break for halftime,
Speaker 4: England scores roaring. I could hear it from my TV.
Speaker 4: The crowd was going so loud, screaming. I could see
Speaker 4: drinks being thrown up in the air. Everyone's having a
Speaker 4: good time. Not one single person was sitting in their seat.
Speaker 4: I was really joining this match report, except there was
Speaker 4: one wasn't There was one person Victoria Beckham sitting there
Speaker 4: watching what is happening? Saw that England scored looking like this?
Speaker 5: Did she even smile?
Speaker 1: And the thing that's so striking about the photo and
Speaker 1: why it's done the rounds and become a meme is because.
Speaker 2: David is out of his seat.
Speaker 1: He's like h and Romeo and Cruise and they're all
Speaker 1: like leaping around and she's just sitting there.
Speaker 5: Amazing.
Speaker 2: I can't decide what it says.
Speaker 4: I think she was meditating, or maybe she was manifesting
Speaker 4: the win for them.
Speaker 2: You think she was channeling.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because I get that lots of people don't like football,
Speaker 1: and I guess there'll be lots or all kinds of sport,
Speaker 1: and I get that there'll be lots of people listening
Speaker 1: to this male and female who are like that is me.
Speaker 1: I do not care. I don't get excited, but it
Speaker 1: takes a particular kind of self possession, I think to
Speaker 1: be sitting in a stadium of sixty five thousand people
Speaker 1: in really hot weather, all the energy of.
Speaker 3: Well, as we know from former sports gross Band and
Speaker 3: Claire Stevens, America and American sports fans are more enthusiastic
Speaker 3: about sports than Australians. That's what she said on the show,
Speaker 3: and so to not even pick up on.
Speaker 1: That, Yeah, but also the place is full of Brits
Speaker 1: who are losing their mind, full of Norwegians doing their rowing,
Speaker 1: to Americans who just decided it was a good day
Speaker 1: out and we're bringing their energy, Like it is very
Speaker 1: hard to resist that. If you're watching Tiddleywinks and everybody's
Speaker 1: really into it, you get into it. Yeah, so I
Speaker 1: think it's an amazing It's either that one of two.
Speaker 1: I have one of two theories about this. Either she's
Speaker 1: so cool, so self possessed that like she's just completely
Speaker 1: unaffected by her surroundings at all times, or she cannot
Speaker 1: ever because of the all of the paparazzi attention, all
Speaker 1: those things lose control in public.
Speaker 2: Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Because even if you don't care, it's kind.
Speaker 4: Of almost impossible to not leap around, but not even
Speaker 4: just standing up and doing that, Like she could have
Speaker 4: just stood up and just been like cheers. But you
Speaker 4: know who else she's the patron stave for is women
Speaker 4: who you know how lots of Well this actually goes
Speaker 4: both ways, but you know how, you get really invested
Speaker 4: in your partner's enthusiasms. Right, So you might not like football,
Speaker 4: but you date someone who likes football and you get
Speaker 4: introduced to football.
Speaker 2: This has Taylor Swift story, right.
Speaker 1: She doesn't like football, different kind of football, starts dating
Speaker 1: that guy.
Speaker 2: She got a mixed up with cricket. I'm pretty sure
Speaker 2: I want.
Speaker 1: You Suddenly she loves it, not because she's faking it,
Speaker 1: but because she's been introduced to.
Speaker 3: Her She's eating chicken fingers and dipping them in ranch
Speaker 3: football games.
Speaker 1: And she's watching watching them backstage before she goes on.
Speaker 2: You just get around it.
Speaker 1: Vicky B is the antithesis of that. She's had thirty
Speaker 1: years of this shit and she's just like, you've tried
Speaker 1: to adopt me and I'm not having it, Like why
Speaker 1: are we here?
Speaker 2: None of us are on the field. Sorry.
Speaker 3: In some ways it shows like an admirable sense of self.
Speaker 3: It does.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: I won't be doing it tomorrow. By the way, your
Speaker 1: match report was excellent, and so I'm a little outdated
Speaker 1: because at five am tomorrow, maybe people have we listening
Speaker 1: to this will have already happened. David will be leaping
Speaker 1: around again. Do you think we'll see our unbothered queen
Speaker 1: the game tomorrow? And it might have already happened, depending
Speaker 1: when he listened to this. Of course, England Argentina is
Speaker 1: in Atlanta, Georgia. I don't know that Vicky B's traveling
Speaker 1: there well.
Speaker 3: Also on the upside, though, Nicola Peltz, a billionaire heiress,
Speaker 3: has never been to Atlanta, Georgia.
Speaker 5: I can say this with some certainty.
Speaker 1: So she's not going to worry about bumping into them,
Speaker 1: but it's another chance for her to just like I'm
Speaker 1: excited Nicole Kidman Club I have. It's been an unfathomably
Speaker 1: dark week in Australia. Four women, in fact, two women
Speaker 1: and two girls have lost their lives allegedly at the
Speaker 1: hands of male violence. It's incredibly distressing and very dark.
Speaker 1: There's one story in this space we wanted to talk
Speaker 1: about today, though, that gives us a little bit of hope,
Speaker 1: a little bit of light. If you're wondering why when
Speaker 1: I'm talking about this, I'm not giving more details of
Speaker 1: the women whose lives have been lost or the men
Speaker 1: who've been charged with these alleged crimes, it's for legal
Speaker 1: reasons and for not wanting to jeopardize justice or justice
Speaker 1: being served in any way at all, right, because really,
Speaker 1: the hope of justice being served in cases like these
Speaker 1: is really all we have to hold on to at
Speaker 1: times like this, and sometimes it doesn't feel like the
Speaker 1: world that world takes violence against women seriously enough. Australia's
Speaker 1: family violence statistics are stubbornly bad. It is now nearly
Speaker 1: four years since the government pledged to reduce the number
Speaker 1: of deaths family violence deaths by twenty five percent every year.
Speaker 1: That has absolutely not happened. The statistics are bad and
Speaker 1: at this time of view, compared to last worse. They're
Speaker 1: getting worse, not better, And I think for many of us.
Speaker 1: I wrote a story about this on Mamameir this week.
Speaker 1: It will also be a newsletter that I feel like
Speaker 1: I have written many times. I could only imagine the
Speaker 1: frustration of the people who work in this area and
Speaker 1: how they're feeling to have to keep pushing and keep pushing,
Speaker 1: and then a week like this comes up and everybody
Speaker 1: talks about it, and then everybody moves on. Obviously, the
Speaker 1: families of those two girls, two women who are lost
Speaker 1: this week cannot move on. But I want to bring
Speaker 1: us to a tiny glimmer of good in this space
Speaker 1: that was discussed this week. This is about sexual violence.
Speaker 1: Judge Ryan Hadrick was presiding over his court room on
Speaker 1: July the ninth in Brisbane and he's been hearing the
Speaker 1: case of a thirty five year old man who pleaded
Speaker 1: guilty to sexually assaulting a fourteen year old girl. Now, yes,
Speaker 1: the man had admitted to sexually assaulting this girl at
Speaker 1: his home, but his lawyer was leading for leniency in sentencing.
Speaker 1: He was saying that the incident had lasted no more
Speaker 1: than five minutes, and that at that five minute mark
Speaker 1: the perpetrator had realized that his actions were wrong and
Speaker 1: he stopped. The barrister, Damien Gates, told the court the
Speaker 1: penile intercourse lasted five minutes, not more than that. It
Speaker 1: was poor impulse control. The Courier Mail reported Judge Hadrick
Speaker 1: listened to this argument and then he told the barrister
Speaker 1: to sit down. The proposition I'm putting through to you
Speaker 1: and your client, he said, is that in five minutes
Speaker 1: engaging in sexual conduct with a fourteen year old, the
Speaker 1: penny should have dropped before it occurred. It's a long
Speaker 1: time to continue engaging in a sexual act while you
Speaker 1: know the wrongness of that conduct. And then he made
Speaker 1: the whole court sit in silence for five minutes.
Speaker 4: When I read this story, I did exactly that. I
Speaker 4: put a time on my phone for five minutes and
Speaker 4: I just sat in silence. And it's so hard to
Speaker 4: not get teary because it's so confronting, so upsetting.
Speaker 2: Five minutes at a long time. It's a long time.
Speaker 1: If we stopped talking on this podcast for five seconds,
Speaker 1: for ten seconds, for a minute, it would feel like eternity.
Speaker 1: And some people are saying, well, that's it was a
Speaker 1: bit of a stunt what the judge did. It was
Speaker 1: a stunt, but it was a very well thought out
Speaker 1: stunt because it brought a lot of attention to this
Speaker 1: case and made people really consider what had happened.
Speaker 2: He said.
Speaker 1: And the man in this case can't be named, even
Speaker 1: though he pled guilty and he was found guilty, because
Speaker 1: the victim's identity is being protected, of course, But he
Speaker 1: said the judge, he said, we're not talking about a
Speaker 1: sexual interaction that is seconds of complaint. We are talking
Speaker 1: about a sustained act that will do significant damage to
Speaker 1: this child over her forthcoming years. We live in an
Speaker 1: age where we are very clear understanding now that we
Speaker 1: didn't in earlier times of the pernicious nature of this
Speaker 1: sort of sexual offending that can stay in the mind
Speaker 1: and stay in the life story of a victim for years,
Speaker 1: if not decades to come. It robs that child of
Speaker 1: their innocence, but also many things that they should be
Speaker 1: able to take for granted, like trust in men and
Speaker 1: understanding of what is sexually appropriate and not appropriate. The
Speaker 1: damage just rattles on through the ages, and that's because
Speaker 1: of your immature, immoral, and frankly selfish conduct on this occasion.
Speaker 1: And sexual assault advocates and child protection campaigners are celebrating
Speaker 1: the fact that this judge, in pulling this stunt in
Speaker 1: inverted Commas, has brought so much attention to it, but
Speaker 1: also acknowledging very publicly the impact of a crime like this,
Speaker 1: which is clearly what the barrister was trying not to do.
Speaker 2: He was trying to dismiss it.
Speaker 3: So I don't necessarily fault the barrister, but I think
Speaker 3: what's happening here is that we're feeling women are feeling
Speaker 3: frustrated that the legal system in general does not seem
Speaker 3: equipped to deal with the severity of these types of crimes.
Speaker 3: And whether it's because there's an implicit bias about women
Speaker 3: being not quite humanomen or crimes against women and girls
Speaker 3: being not quite as serious as other crimes, I don't
Speaker 3: know what the reason is, but just today I read
Speaker 3: in the Nine newspapers that there have been two recent
Speaker 3: rape cases in New South Wales where a man was
Speaker 3: found guilty of rape. He was convicted, but he was
Speaker 3: not sent to prison for rape. And that doesn't feel right.
Speaker 3: And it took by the way a man writing a
Speaker 3: former magistrate, a man writing this in the nine newspapers.
Speaker 3: I wonder if sometimes, for some reason, we as a
Speaker 3: society need to hear this from men, not from women.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I what you said earlier whole when we tried
Speaker 4: to find these kind of glimmers of hope, Because in
Speaker 4: any other world when we hear this story, there is
Speaker 4: a universe where we would just think that that would
Speaker 4: be a good like a get enough excuse, and we
Speaker 4: would be like, oh, and the judge would accept that,
Speaker 4: and that will be fine. That's just what we've learned
Speaker 4: to accept over and over again. It's important to remember
Speaker 4: that this story is so powerful and waiting for those
Speaker 4: like waiting in silence in those five minutes, because if
Speaker 4: we take this and see this as like, thank God
Speaker 4: he said that, then God that was like, it's not
Speaker 4: the best thing that could have happened. And I feel
Speaker 4: like sometimes we take these stories and I'm like, that
Speaker 4: was amazing that he did that. But it's only a really,
Speaker 4: really tiny small bit of.
Speaker 1: Hope, it is, And I absolutely get that. I think
Speaker 1: that it's to Amelia's point in a way, when nothing
Speaker 1: seems to be changing in terms of the horrific nature
Speaker 1: of this level of violence, sexual violence and family violence
Speaker 1: and domestic balance, when nothing seems to be changing, that
Speaker 1: it feels like and Australia isn't alone in this. This
Speaker 1: is an issue all over the world and some countries
Speaker 1: have taken different kinds of steps to deal with it.
Speaker 2: But it feels like.
Speaker 1: In a way, there's a collective shrug of well, what
Speaker 1: are you going to do?
Speaker 6: You know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Like, this is human nature, this is masculinity. I don't
Speaker 1: know whatever the sort of justification for it is. It
Speaker 1: sometimes feel like there's a big collective shrug. And so
Speaker 1: women are almost ridiculously grateful for a moment like this
Speaker 1: where a male judge seems to actually get, like, seems
Speaker 1: to actually get that this moment of poor impulse control
Speaker 1: will have an impact on that girl forever. And the
Speaker 1: women lost this week are not statistics. The impact of
Speaker 1: what has happened to them will rattle through their families
Speaker 1: and rattle through their communities, and rattle through the stories
Speaker 1: of all women in a way about how unsafe we are,
Speaker 1: even in the places we're supposed to be safest, And
Speaker 1: so I think we just want to grab onto anything
Speaker 1: that feels like maybe things are changing.
Speaker 3: If this conversation has brought up anything for you, will
Speaker 3: have some resources in the show notes.
Speaker 5: We'll be back after this break.
Speaker 2: How was your day in these trousers?
Speaker 5: That's what we need to know. It troubles them.
Speaker 7: I'm not injured, but I had a few nit misses,
Speaker 7: especially on stairs up and downstairs, and I've almost gotten
Speaker 7: caught in some bust doors as well.
Speaker 2: They're super flappy. They are just so so long.
Speaker 7: You just have to constantly hold them up as you're walking,
Speaker 7: or you know, you get them caught in an escalator
Speaker 7: or a list door or.
Speaker 5: Something like that.
Speaker 4: It's the flair, I mean, it's the width of the
Speaker 4: relatively narrow road.
Speaker 2: Great, it's just crazy huge.
Speaker 7: Yes, it also kind of just makes you look like
Speaker 7: you've got one giant leg as well.
Speaker 2: What are we talking? An investigation?
Speaker 3: That was Times Fashion stylist Susie Lethbridge on what people
Speaker 3: are calling the Czara death pants. A flowing Palazzo trouser
Speaker 3: retails for about sixty five dollars, comes in a variety
Speaker 3: of colors and which became the subject of a separate
Speaker 3: SEATNN investigation this week. Let's hear from CNN supervising producer
Speaker 3: Evaniskatola on this important story.
Speaker 8: Pose injuries of scrapes on their knees or hands, but
Speaker 8: some others have posted about a bruised ankle and even
Speaker 8: a broken elbow on social media. Some dokingly say they
Speaker 8: fallen victim to the pants. The flowing, wide legged trousers
Speaker 8: come in multiple colors online and are marketed at forty
Speaker 8: five dollars. These women say it's not the length that's
Speaker 8: the problem, but more the width of the trousers. They're
Speaker 8: so wide that their feet get caught and then they trip.
Speaker 8: CNN reached out to Zara that they didn't respond.
Speaker 3: So we're still waiting on comment from Zara. At the
Speaker 3: time of recording, they have not released any kind of statement,
Speaker 3: but there have been more than two thousand tiktoks about
Speaker 3: the deadly trousers, and they're often using CCTV to verify
Speaker 3: their claims about just how dangerous these pants are God
Speaker 3: for you, Amelia Lester, it's a psam. Have you fallen
Speaker 3: victim to the Zara death pants?
Speaker 4: I haven't fallen victim to these specific pants, but I
Speaker 4: have fallen victim to flowy pants. In the park, I
Speaker 4: had something happened to me ten years ago. It felt
Speaker 4: like yesterday because my brain likes to remind me of
Speaker 4: the story. At three am most nights, I was walking
Speaker 4: up you know, in the train stations that we have
Speaker 4: in Sydney, A lot of them are you have to
Speaker 4: go upper platform and then come back down. So I
Speaker 4: was walking up this huge, long flight of stairs to
Speaker 4: get to a train, packed so many people on the staircase,
Speaker 4: and I was wearing these big flowy pants. I was
Speaker 4: probably halfway up and then my foot got caught on
Speaker 4: the top of I should mention it weren't just flowy pants.
Speaker 2: But it was a full bodysuit. Oh that went into pants.
Speaker 1: That's got less give, let's give, let's give.
Speaker 4: My foot got caught on the top of my pants
Speaker 4: as I was taking a step. Fully stacked it and
Speaker 4: then rolled down three steps and rolled.
Speaker 2: It's like a body roll, like on the front of
Speaker 2: my body.
Speaker 4: I like slipped down three steps, and then some people
Speaker 4: like were like are uk are uk? And then there's
Speaker 4: there was a guy who was right behind me, so
Speaker 4: you kind of had to like move out of the
Speaker 4: way because otherwise he would have stepped onto me.
Speaker 2: And he was like, are you all right? Can I
Speaker 2: help you?
Speaker 4: I was like no, I'm okay, I'm fine. I'm fine,
Speaker 4: I'm fine. I get up, I walk three more steps, happened.
Speaker 1: Again, Oh no?
Speaker 3: And then did he become your boyfriend? Tell me he
Speaker 3: became your because.
Speaker 2: It was a body suit.
Speaker 4: It was worse because it pulled down and it was
Speaker 4: like quite a cleavage kind of bodysuit. So not only
Speaker 4: did I step on my pant and fall down the
Speaker 4: second time, but then the top half of my bodysuit
Speaker 4: came down and like my tits were out, Oh no,
Speaker 4: and I was on the ground on these steps. I
Speaker 4: slipped down another two steps, and then he was just
Speaker 4: behind me and he was just like and trying not
Speaker 4: to look, and he was just.
Speaker 2: Like are you sure?
Speaker 4: And I was like, I'm okay, I'm okay, pulled up,
Speaker 4: put my clothes back on, and then held my pants
Speaker 4: up and then walked up the remaining a lot, and
Speaker 4: it happened all in slow motion and I couldn't stop.
Speaker 1: Did you write an angry letter to the people who
Speaker 1: made the outfit?
Speaker 4: But I think I wrote a letter to Transport News
Speaker 4: like whales about the steps.
Speaker 1: I want to I, MELI, can you describe exactly what
Speaker 1: these pants look like?
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're like platzo so that ighs like like a
Speaker 3: sort of like elastic highwaist but with extremely like pleats,
Speaker 3: and then get out into very very flowy.
Speaker 7: Look.
Speaker 1: I don't want to point fingers here, but the mistake
Speaker 1: that these women and you made here was trying to
Speaker 1: live a normal life in fashion.
Speaker 2: It doesn't work.
Speaker 1: There is there is some fashion that can only be
Speaker 1: worn by people who never catch the train. True, don't
Speaker 1: walk around because I haven't had this very experience. But
Speaker 1: we know how jeanes sometimes they get everybody wants them
Speaker 1: really long. I've got lots of jeans are a bit too long.
Speaker 1: I can't wear them. If with a cloggy heel, you
Speaker 1: get caught, you trip. But if you don't walk anywhere,
Speaker 1: you don't do train steps. You don't do them in
Speaker 1: limousine to hotels, as we used to call them taxi shoes.
Speaker 1: Like there are some shoes that are for people who
Speaker 1: only catch taxis.
Speaker 5: Rich people have which just invented a new term here.
Speaker 1: Told us that we could Yeah, I know, well that
Speaker 1: was one of the biggest lies of that show. Is
Speaker 1: that not that she could run in heels because some
Speaker 1: women are superheroes. Let's remember some women wear capes, but
Speaker 1: that you could live the kind of life where you
Speaker 1: walk around a lot in those shoes you can't.
Speaker 3: No, you're right, And look, that's why I wanted to
Speaker 3: bring some fashion news here today, because fashion can be
Speaker 3: pretty hard to navigate, especially for people who catch public transport.
Speaker 3: And you wanted me to give us an update on
Speaker 3: Donald Trump's Warren Irun and.
Speaker 5: How that's back on.
Speaker 2: That was my pitch in the meetings, and I.
Speaker 3: Said no, because I've got something else that's very important
Speaker 3: to update you on fashion wise, and that is that
Speaker 3: breasts are back.
Speaker 5: Thank you goods for people with breasts.
Speaker 2: I have breath grabbing the breast, me and my whole
Speaker 2: train station. They know you have breasts.
Speaker 3: The subset cartoons hate Her wrote this week about how
Speaker 3: around the sort of mid twenty tens, the major body
Speaker 3: trend shifted to a disproportionately large bottom, not breasts. You
Speaker 3: might remember that bums were big. Bums were big, and
Speaker 3: then the twenty tens kind of brought around fashion trends
Speaker 3: which were they weren't breast forward.
Speaker 5: They were very butted forward. If you can be butted forward,
Speaker 5: maybe a mixing metaphors to turn around.
Speaker 3: They were not breast forward, and so we thought, here's
Speaker 3: an example.
Speaker 5: We thought bra letts were big in the twenty tens.
Speaker 5: Now bra lets for.
Speaker 3: People with breasts who may not know a BRA's without underwire,
Speaker 3: so they're kind of useless for anyone above a bee cup.
Speaker 3: But they were very big. People would wear them under
Speaker 3: blazers and so on. And the push up bra completely
Speaker 3: went out of fashion, true because you may not even
Speaker 3: know this them. But in the early two thousands, Victoria's
Speaker 3: Secret and Wonder Bra. They all wanted us wearing like
Speaker 3: really intense push up bras, and it was all about cleavage.
Speaker 1: And in the nineties, even I had a girlfriend live
Speaker 1: with her, I don't know why, who used to go
Speaker 1: clubbing in just a wonder bra and.
Speaker 5: That was a big thing.
Speaker 1: And sometimes you'd be raving and one of the pads
Speaker 1: of your wonder bra would fly out and hit someone
Speaker 1: in the eye. That was another day fashion.
Speaker 2: Also the eighteen hundreds.
Speaker 5: Also I.
Speaker 1: V in the eighteen hundred, how very dare you?
Speaker 3: But now look everything's changed because Sydney Sweeney wore a
Speaker 3: sweatshirt which read sorry for having great tits and correct opinions.
Speaker 3: Correctmu sent bullet bras down the runway. Those are kind
Speaker 3: of like those very very kind of like aggressively pointy.
Speaker 2: Oh, I've seen them in some music videos.
Speaker 5: Yep.
Speaker 3: And British Vogue said that perky boobs are back in
Speaker 3: fashion now.
Speaker 5: Correct me if I'm wrong. I don't think.
Speaker 3: Perky boobs were ever out of fashion, but British Folk
Speaker 3: has now declared that they are. Holy fashion is a
Speaker 3: reflection of where we are as a culture.
Speaker 5: Why do you think brests are back?
Speaker 1: Oh, dear, I'm very happy for us all because you know,
Speaker 1: it's the way that fashions aways moving the goalposts on
Speaker 1: our actual bodies.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we all love that. It's good to have the direction.
Speaker 3: The five episode where they were sitting around in a
Speaker 3: fashion magazine editorial meeting and one of the women in
Speaker 3: the meeting was like, I'm thinking.
Speaker 5: Eyebrows, I'm thinking noses. I'm thinking mouths now, we're thinking brass.
Speaker 1: Thinking boobs. It's okay, you don't have to disrupt them
Speaker 1: down anymore. What I hope, what I suspect, Amelia, but
Speaker 1: it makes me feel a little bit icky, is that
Speaker 1: this is all back connected to we talked about recently
Speaker 1: how we were hopeful that rich face had got out
Speaker 1: of fashion, which was the very surgery. Look, I don't
Speaker 1: think it has really, but I think that way. We're
Speaker 1: talking then about Lauren Sanchez and how she is, you know,
Speaker 1: met garla queen, queen of the world, queen of the
Speaker 1: one percent, queen of the space, very breast forward, very
Speaker 1: breast forward forward, even in those remember the astronaut outfits. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they were very breast forward. You have to unzip them
Speaker 1: to here so that you know.
Speaker 3: And people were mad that she attended President Donald Trump's
Speaker 3: inauguration wearing what appeared to be a wonder bras under
Speaker 3: her bloser.
Speaker 1: That's true, so she's she's obviously influencing this. But more broadly,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of pushback, hasn't there been in that
Speaker 1: sort of very influential tech browie one percent world about
Speaker 1: how culture had got a bit too feminized men weren't
Speaker 1: allowed to like what men like. And in that world,
Speaker 1: you know, men like tits.
Speaker 4: Yeah, they like certain type of tit Like it's a
Speaker 4: type that is exactly what British fogues said, the perky
Speaker 4: as like, it's not like too big, it's not too small.
Speaker 2: It's like perfect for them.
Speaker 4: It's like the equivalent of a man coming up to
Speaker 4: you and going, oh, you look so beautiful without any
Speaker 4: makeup on, and I'm like, so, I'm wearing three layers
Speaker 4: of foundation, like you don't know what you're talking about.
Speaker 1: And those kind of tips that they want, yeah, I
Speaker 1: bet they're very specific about the kind of tips. But
Speaker 1: I do think it maybe is is linked to that,
Speaker 1: you know, kind of we don't have to pretend anymore
Speaker 1: that we don't just want to stare at your boobs, right,
Speaker 1: And I'm not not all men about that, of course.
Speaker 3: Look for those of us who don't believe in discarding
Speaker 3: or flaunting body parts on a whim, I have an
Speaker 3: update for you too, and that is that you can
Speaker 3: be a gym goblin.
Speaker 2: Y yes for me.
Speaker 3: So this is my third and final fashion update of
Speaker 3: the day, and I think it's probably the most accessible
Speaker 3: one if I were to pick one, Forget the plates
Speaker 3: princesses in their matching two piece ensembles, forget the clean
Speaker 3: girl athleisure aesthetic. Throw out your matchhuck, because twenty twenty
Speaker 3: six is all about the gym.
Speaker 5: Goblin.
Speaker 3: Tell me what is So it's Goblin Moe goes to
Speaker 3: the gym. We've talked about goblin mode on the show.
Speaker 3: The Guardian says it puts it this way. The optics
Speaker 3: remain much the same as the Goblin think ancient T shirts,
Speaker 3: knaked socks, oversized cardigans. But the setting has changed and
Speaker 3: Goblin coreed devotees are rising up from unmade beds, diet
Speaker 3: cokes in hand to hit the treadmill. I love that image,
Speaker 3: by the way. So Jennifer Lawrence is a patron saint
Speaker 3: of the Jim Goblins. She was snapped this northern summer.
Speaker 3: You have to be snapped. You have to form just
Speaker 3: using the fashion terminology.
Speaker 2: Here can't help it. This is the script.
Speaker 3: She was wearing a pair of added as slides, red
Speaker 3: jogger pant because you have to say pant not pants
Speaker 3: when you're talking about fashion.
Speaker 5: You know, like the red shot, like the shiny.
Speaker 3: Material with a stripe down the side and then a
Speaker 3: vintage Mickey Mouse t shirt and messy hair so you
Speaker 3: can Some other examples think Harry Styles running to his
Speaker 3: Wembley concerts in his little stripe shorts.
Speaker 5: I think JFK Junior in Love.
Speaker 3: Story with the backwards baseball cap and the basketball short.
Speaker 5: Are you getting the idea of it now?
Speaker 2: I also do this.
Speaker 4: I'm a bit of a gym Oh yeah, so what
Speaker 4: do you wear? I don't wear tights or like any
Speaker 4: sort of like actual actor wear. The other day I
Speaker 4: went to my pilate's class in cargo pants.
Speaker 5: That is so cool.
Speaker 2: But I think they were waiting for me to take
Speaker 2: them off and have short on the knee. But I
Speaker 2: just kept nice, have been the coolest girl.
Speaker 4: I have questions, Yeah, because they are loud when they
Speaker 4: rop together.
Speaker 1: That, but also gym tights. They're practical, they don't catch
Speaker 1: on the exercise bike. They let you do everything. I
Speaker 1: hope you're not doing reformer pilates cargo This sounds dangerous.
Speaker 1: You're gonna get caught up in one of those spinny
Speaker 1: things and be like the.
Speaker 4: Risk you have to take to be comfortable? Why why
Speaker 4: I'm just not comfortable in tis. I don't like how
Speaker 4: like my butt's just out there. I don't like how
Speaker 4: my gym top doesn't fully go on top of it,
Speaker 4: so like my legs are just they just feel spidery
Speaker 4: and weird. And I don't like being so exposed. It's
Speaker 4: also winter and I want to feel warm.
Speaker 3: It's so funny, though, because the reason why athleisure became
Speaker 3: so prominent and popular is because millennials said that it
Speaker 3: was comfortable. Like comfort was in fact the cell of
Speaker 3: wearing leggings everywhere. And now I feel like we're retro
Speaker 3: fitting an explanation for why we've moved away from leggings.
Speaker 3: And it's become that leggings are not comfortable, But like
Speaker 3: leggings are actually objectively they really are.
Speaker 1: If they fit you, they really aren't fit you, then
Speaker 1: they do kind of cut off, don't fit me. I
Speaker 1: don't want to say anything, but they are comfortable, but
Speaker 1: they're not cool, not anymore. Remember that, like it was,
Speaker 1: as you said, millennials, but not only millennials. It was
Speaker 1: a mum uniform. It's a it was kind of a
Speaker 1: weekend uniform for everybody. You go to the shops, the
Speaker 1: shops and It's interesting because one of my mates. When
Speaker 1: Brent and I went away recently, one of my mates
Speaker 1: came down to stay in my house and take my
Speaker 1: kids to sport. She's a very good mate. She does
Speaker 1: that kind of thing, and she lives in active weear.
Speaker 1: She's an active wegger, and she noticed that when she
Speaker 1: went to football, my daughter's football not none of the
Speaker 1: women were wearing activewear. And she wondered if it was
Speaker 1: a country thing, like a country city divide. But I
Speaker 1: just think maybe my friend is stuck in the fashion.
Speaker 5: I think that's right. Out louders.
Speaker 3: I have presented you with three trends here today just
Speaker 3: to recap deadly pants, breasts, and Jim Goblin. Let us
Speaker 3: know which fashion chun you'll be following this season.
Speaker 2: Thank god for you.
Speaker 4: After the break the fan fiction that is causing real
Speaker 4: life problems for celebrities.
Speaker 5: So today we.
Speaker 1: Found out that Prince Harry definitely does not listen to
Speaker 1: out Loud, which sadly is a relief given the shit
Speaker 1: I've said about it with my head in a hot minute.
Speaker 1: But the reason we absolutely know this to be true
Speaker 1: is that he went on a podcast right just got released.
Speaker 1: It's the Joe Marler podcast. Joe Marhler is a British
Speaker 1: rugby player who has become a celebrity.
Speaker 2: He was on Celebrity Traders last.
Speaker 1: Year and he was duped and it was great and
Speaker 1: everybody loved it and he's really popular now and he
Speaker 1: has a podcast.
Speaker 4: Rugby players are becoming so good at having podcasts, like
Speaker 4: the WWE to like Hollywood Star.
Speaker 2: It's true, right.
Speaker 1: So Harry goes on Joe Miler's podcast. Their mates, they've
Speaker 1: they've known each other for a while and he was
Speaker 1: generally adobes, very English, very self deprecating, blah blah blah.
Speaker 1: But remember last week we advised after Albo made that
Speaker 1: terrible kiss kill Barry whatever it was era with Kylie
Speaker 1: Minoga on an Australian comedy podcast, we advised serious public
Speaker 1: figures not to play those kind of games. That was
Speaker 1: all he did on the Joe let me play you
Speaker 1: a tiny bit just of his intro.
Speaker 5: Full name, Henry Charles Albert David Jugsux. It's a long one.
Speaker 5: I actually thought you've given us your full name would
Speaker 5: clear things up. It worse made it.
Speaker 4: We any chance of shortening that, Harry, what's your grooming
Speaker 4: routine with your auburn.
Speaker 8: While we're talking and downstairs and middle stairs, Yeah, and
Speaker 8: middle stairs to be fair.
Speaker 5: Show obviously.
Speaker 2: A same time.
Speaker 4: No, we have a.
Speaker 2: We have a prince here talking about his sh I think.
Speaker 5: That's charming at all.
Speaker 3: And also, Duke of Sussex is not a last name
Speaker 3: when his kids go to school. He's not putting Duke
Speaker 3: of Sussex on like the emergency contact form.
Speaker 2: Oh no, he is.
Speaker 5: I thought it was Mount Batton, Windsor.
Speaker 2: And he definitely.
Speaker 1: He also is asked in this interview what his profession is.
Speaker 1: That's a great question. So they said what do you
Speaker 1: do for a job and he said dad, adore see
Speaker 1: and then he said army veteran and then he said
Speaker 1: Prince of England.
Speaker 2: Duke is his job description.
Speaker 5: Any of this are you finding this charming?
Speaker 2: I'm into it. I'm into it.
Speaker 4: I I think I'm now a Harry apologist, Like. I
Speaker 4: love that guy. He's so down to earth, he's so
Speaker 4: I don't think we talked about how nice years enough
Speaker 4: on the podcast.
Speaker 1: He did also say when he was saying call me Harry,
Speaker 1: he also said several times called me.
Speaker 2: H so sweet. I'd love him to ask me to
Speaker 2: call him.
Speaker 5: Hey.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I think that he went on There was
Speaker 1: some really there was some real toilet talk on this,
Speaker 1: but it mostly came from Joe Marler and Harry laughed
Speaker 1: and then they went from this kind of silly quick
Speaker 1: fire into talking about trauma and all kinds of serious things.
Speaker 1: But as I say, he hasn't taken our advice because
Speaker 1: a lot of the headlines are about this is like disgusting, embarrassing,
Speaker 1: blah blah blah blah blah, which Amelia agrees with. I'm
Speaker 1: just glad that he cleared up the name problem that
Speaker 1: we know that he is ever he makes everyone call
Speaker 1: him Duke, Harry.
Speaker 4: Or h We've all heard about fan fiction. If you're
Speaker 4: a woman, you probably dabbled in the art when you
Speaker 4: were younger, or maybe you still are right now. If so,
Speaker 4: send me some links I did. I did, or you
Speaker 4: could have been like me, which was like the reader
Speaker 4: of fan fiction on Tumbla. I read a lot of
Speaker 4: fan fiction on Troy Bolton high school musicals like.
Speaker 3: Tribolton, So this was like fan fiction about pretending to
Speaker 3: be in the high school with him.
Speaker 4: It was like, yeah, fan fiction where the POV was
Speaker 4: your Gabriella and his Troy Yeah right, and then like
Speaker 4: there were like scenes that didn't happen in high school
Speaker 4: music and you're like, oh, this is great, this is great.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So there are lots of servers right that have loads
Speaker 1: of this.
Speaker 2: If you're a fan.
Speaker 4: Yeah, what pad is a big one for people who
Speaker 4: want to write or want to dabble in fan fiction,
Speaker 4: and you can get your work published on that. Tumblrs
Speaker 4: like a blog where people published from their own like
Speaker 4: little website on there. But these fan fictions, like some
Speaker 4: of them, have become massive global hits. So fifty Shades
Speaker 4: of Gray actually started off as Twilight fan fiction, they
Speaker 4: got published into this big thing. The model instrument started
Speaker 4: off as Harry Potter fan fiction.
Speaker 3: Ye.
Speaker 4: But now fan fiction writers have taken this a step
Speaker 4: further and are starting to write fan fiction not based
Speaker 4: on characters in books or movies or TV shows, but
Speaker 4: based on the real life people who play them and
Speaker 4: the happenings that are happening in their life. The latest
Speaker 4: victims of this are Hudson Williams and Connor Story, who
Speaker 4: were the two main leads in Heated Rivalry. The main
Speaker 4: plot point of that series was the relationship of their
Speaker 4: characters on the show, and since then, that show's gone
Speaker 4: absolutely viral. We talked about it on the podcast in
Speaker 4: great length. They're both very famous. They're both very very famous,
Speaker 4: going on very cool parties, are hanging out with the Kardashi.
Speaker 1: Did you see a sidebar? Did you see Connor's story
Speaker 1: hanging out with Madonna at the fashion shows in Paris
Speaker 1: and he's like chatting away to Madonna like he's lived
Speaker 1: there all his life and he's been at her parties
Speaker 1: for years, and it's like you, no one knew who
Speaker 1: you were five minutes ago, and they are like proper
Speaker 1: celebrities sitting next to her and she's like, nah, I'm
Speaker 1: talking to him.
Speaker 4: They got like a standing ovation when they presented at
Speaker 4: themes they so from that, like fans are now shipping
Speaker 4: these two actors together, to the point where Hudson posted
Speaker 4: a tweet that said r P has got to stop
Speaker 4: real person fiction. So it's like a new subset that's
Speaker 4: come out from fan fiction where we're now getting all
Speaker 4: of these fictional stories but based on real life people.
Speaker 4: Someone who's had a lot of real person fiction written
Speaker 4: about them is Harry Style wasn't a promise, wasn't holly,
Speaker 4: but who knows.
Speaker 2: Maybe.
Speaker 4: So there's a movie on Netflix called After. Have you
Speaker 4: heard about this movie?
Speaker 1: This?
Speaker 4: It's a romance and it's based off a series of
Speaker 4: books written by Ana Todd that was first published on
Speaker 4: what Pad as Harry Styles fan fiction, and when it
Speaker 4: got turned into a movie, they changed the name to
Speaker 4: Hardin Scott and Harry was actually asked about.
Speaker 2: This in an interview. Here's what he said, tell.
Speaker 6: Me if I got this right, you had some fan
Speaker 6: who loved you so much that she wrote a fantasy
Speaker 6: about you, a fantasy love story about you, and then
Speaker 6: that turned out to be the book After.
Speaker 5: I don't really know.
Speaker 2: I don't know if I can confirmer.
Speaker 5: I'm not entirely educated on the origin of the script
Speaker 5: or anything.
Speaker 4: So for Harry, he's been asked so many he like,
Speaker 4: I'm talking about it. He is, so when you watch
Speaker 4: the video, he's so uncomfortable. This is the only time
Speaker 4: he's ever really been asked and like commented on it.
Speaker 5: But this if a man interviewing himselves four thousand years old.
Speaker 1: The thing that's funny, well not funny, but because this
Speaker 1: fan fiction isn't new, as you say this term RPF.
Speaker 1: I've never heard until this week when it was about
Speaker 1: the Hudson Williams stories, And I'd never considered, which I
Speaker 1: says a lot about me. I guess I'd never considered
Speaker 1: that there was a negative impact of these stories, but
Speaker 1: I guess they get to a level where if your
Speaker 1: Connor story in Hudson Williams and you're newly famous, the
Speaker 1: entire internet is a wash with all these stories about
Speaker 1: your real life affairs that aren't real, that would get
Speaker 1: in your head, right, And Zay Malick and Harry Styles
Speaker 1: lived through this, which is probably why it's so uncomfortable
Speaker 1: in that when everybody was saying that members of one
Speaker 1: direction were hooking up when they weren't, and they said
Speaker 1: they affected them so much that they couldn't touch each
Speaker 1: other in public anymore and put their arms around each other,
Speaker 1: wouldn't feed the machine even a little bit because the
Speaker 1: fans were losing their minds.
Speaker 2: Why are fandoms like this?
Speaker 4: And it's just like manifesting in like person as well,
Speaker 4: like they've had like some crazy interaction with fans. They
Speaker 4: were harassed for so long after the series, where people
Speaker 4: were begging them to tell them like what their sexuality was,
Speaker 4: Connor Hutson and Connor and even the Anne Hathaway movie
Speaker 4: The Idea of You, it's like largely rumored to be
Speaker 4: based off Harry Styles relationship with Olivia Wilde, and it's
Speaker 4: like we take these like little things and like make
Speaker 4: it so so big and then kind of just put
Speaker 4: a life onto these people. And I was like, Oh,
Speaker 4: this is the life your one hundred percent living. I
Speaker 4: remember I watched an interview of the Mark Cast and
Speaker 4: we got Robert Danny Junior and Chris Evans to react
Speaker 4: to these like fan drawings of them like being in
Speaker 4: love together, and it was just really weird.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but I feel like I'm kind of in two
Speaker 3: minds about it. Look, obviously, I don't want anyone to
Speaker 3: be made uncomfortable. On the other hand, at least people
Speaker 3: are reading. There was a big Atlantic magazine cover story
Speaker 3: this week called the End of Reading, and it was
Speaker 3: full of the usual stats about how short form video
Speaker 3: has ruined our minds and no one has any intention
Speaker 3: or concentration for anything anymore. But this is kind of
Speaker 3: an example of how people are still finding solace in
Speaker 3: storytelling and who am I to get in the midst.
Speaker 1: Of that people are writing. So this is a gateway
Speaker 1: for a lot of writers. And when I said at
Speaker 1: the beginning of this, I used to do this, I
Speaker 1: did used to do this. It made me realize that
Speaker 1: when I was a kid and I loved writing, and
Speaker 1: I loved writing stories, I used to write notebooks and
Speaker 1: notebooks and notebooks with this big story that was me
Speaker 1: and all my girlfriends at school and we were dating
Speaker 1: members of jurandurand look them up.
Speaker 2: Look them up.
Speaker 1: They were a band in the eighties and I was
Speaker 1: obviously dating the lead singer because it was my story.
Speaker 1: So I got to be main character, and then my
Speaker 1: friends would and it was like a series.
Speaker 2: And this was because I wanted to write for your friends.
Speaker 1: And then I'd go to school every day and we'd
Speaker 1: sit down and I'd read out the list installment here
Speaker 1: exactly a mere friends would gather around, and that was
Speaker 1: kind of like a gateway to me writing. But then,
Speaker 1: if I'm really honest, a lot of celebrity journalism is
Speaker 1: just this, And even what we do sometimes on this
Speaker 1: show is just this sometimes. Like so when we talked
Speaker 1: on the sub show yesterday about say, Jack Antonoff and
Speaker 1: Margaret Quali's breakup.
Speaker 2: Right, we go, we know these facts.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we've seen these pictures, We've heard these stories. Here's
Speaker 1: what we think happened. A lot of celebrity journalism is that.
Speaker 3: And not just celebrity journalism. Arguably a lot of what
Speaker 3: means to be a celebrity is that you're allowing or
Speaker 3: even encouraging people to project things onto you that may
Speaker 3: or may not be there. One celebrity who does this
Speaker 3: exceptionally well is, of course Taylor Alison Swift, who knows
Speaker 3: exactly how to feed the fandom beast, and we're not
Speaker 3: to feed the fandom beast. The easter eggs in her
Speaker 3: music are legendary. Before Torture Poets Department came out, everyone
Speaker 3: thought it was going to be about her breakup with
Speaker 3: Joe al when it turned out to actually be about
Speaker 3: her breakup with Maddie Healy, or so we think this
Speaker 3: is our interpretation of it.
Speaker 5: Now. She hasn't released the wedding dress.
Speaker 3: Photos because she's she's deliberately kind of toying with our
Speaker 3: idea of interest and attention and what she's going to
Speaker 3: give us and what she's not going to give us.
Speaker 1: It's true, and I guess you have to have a
Speaker 1: relationship with it because increasingly fandom is about sluthing. So
Speaker 1: that example, Taylor Swift encourages that level of sleuthing. She
Speaker 1: says it's always about her career, not her personal life,
Speaker 1: but she encourages that level of sleuthing. Know that the
Speaker 1: way that a lot of all the celebrities stories that
Speaker 1: we that blow up, that blow up these days involve
Speaker 1: a lot of internet sleuthing in terms of who's following who,
Speaker 1: who on followed what, there's a trail here and diita
Speaker 1: and so we successful brands, whether they're celebrity brands or
Speaker 1: fictional brands, encourage in a way that level of interaction
Speaker 1: you've got to give. You've got a game of fire
Speaker 1: a little bit in your story, but then there's this
Speaker 1: line they don't want you to cross because it would
Speaker 1: be very confronting. So there'd be hundreds of stories. Imagine
Speaker 1: if there was Mom and Mia out loud ah RPF.
Speaker 1: Imagine if there were people out there were writing stories
Speaker 1: about like and then this happened and that happened, and
Speaker 1: it would be entertaining to a point, But then you'd
Speaker 1: be like, hold on, and I didn't punch Emily in
Speaker 1: the face.
Speaker 2: I really like it. I didn't push it down the
Speaker 2: stairs at the train station. It could very quickly do
Speaker 2: your head in.
Speaker 4: It's the line because when I remember being younger and
Speaker 4: reading some of this and now I feel after reading
Speaker 4: about RPF, I feel a bit ikey about it.
Speaker 1: A story in Teine Fogue that said how to read
Speaker 1: it ethically, and I'm like, calm down, but you.
Speaker 4: Think I actually felt like really grossed out because I
Speaker 4: would read these stories and reading RPF is so different
Speaker 4: to reading fan fiction because with fan fiction, you're getting
Speaker 4: a character and you're like broadening the world of that
Speaker 4: character and the celebrities out of it.
Speaker 2: So that's like a Harry Potter.
Speaker 4: Yeah, like a Harry Potter, which we have seen like
Speaker 4: come into like big productions from those fan fictions. But
Speaker 4: I think it feels more icky when it's a person
Speaker 4: because it's like their name, their likeliness, Like celebrities mentioned
Speaker 4: that they've interacted within real life, and then in my head,
Speaker 4: I'm like, how is that different than like taking a
Speaker 4: celebrity and making an AI video of them with other celebrities.
Speaker 4: It's the same thing. It's just two different creative outlets.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, the world is so complicated.
Speaker 2: Let me have my let me have.
Speaker 5: Types.
Speaker 1: That is all we've got time for on out loud today,
Speaker 1: except we need to tell you about a book giveaway
Speaker 1: that we are doing. So every host of out loud
Speaker 1: has chosen two of our favorite books.
Speaker 2: It's really hard to choose.
Speaker 1: Us to quick quiz Ameilia, what we are to famesick
Speaker 1: and Intermentso and your two.
Speaker 2: Mine was Romantic Comedy and yellow Face.
Speaker 1: And I'm not telling you what mine was, but maybe
Speaker 1: one of them was written by a prince who was
Speaker 1: mentioned on this show today.
Speaker 7: Book.
Speaker 1: So there are twelve books because every host has chosen too,
Speaker 1: and we're giving them away as a package like a
Speaker 1: big book club treat. And there there's fiction in there,
Speaker 1: there's nonfiction in there. Much a good collection, it really is.
Speaker 1: And a lucky subscriber will win this. Right. If you're
Speaker 1: already a subscriber, you don't need to enter this competition.
Speaker 1: You are already entered. That is one of the many
Speaker 1: reasons why being a subscriber is ace. But if you
Speaker 1: are not a subscriber, subscribe now and you are in
Speaker 1: the running for that big book pack, it will sort
Speaker 1: your winter out. You can just hide away and read,
Speaker 1: so hit the link in the show notes to become
Speaker 1: a subscriber. And we can't wait for one of you
Speaker 1: to win our whole.
Speaker 5: Pile of good luck.
Speaker 2: We'll see you tomorrow.
Speaker 1: Bye bye.
Speaker 4: Mamma and May acknowledges the traditional owners of the land
Speaker 4: on which we have recorded this podcast.