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Speaker 1: You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast. Mamma Mia acknowledges

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Speaker 1: the traditional owners of the land and waters that this

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Speaker 1: podcast is recorded on.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to Parenting out Loud, the podcast where we bring

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Speaker 2: you the week in parenting culture. I'm Monic Bowley, I'm Amelia.

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Speaker 1: Laster, and I am Stacy Hicks.

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Speaker 2: Hey, before we start, I have a public service announcement

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Speaker 2: for you both. We've all been saying Birkenstock wrong.

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Speaker 3: How is it meant to be?

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Speaker 1: It's Birkenstock, But you're not expecting us to say that

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Speaker 1: like Bartholonna, are you?

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Speaker 3: Yes?

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Speaker 2: Yes, The Germans want you to say it like that.

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Speaker 2: So Damien Wilno is the fashion writer for the City

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Speaker 2: Morning Herald, and he did this great piece. He went

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Speaker 2: to Germany and talked to the people that make Birkenstocks

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Speaker 2: and he said they're the thinking person's crocs. I love that.

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Speaker 4: I love that makes me feel so much better about

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Speaker 4: wearing them literally all the time.

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Speaker 2: My other favorite part of the article birkenstops are having

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Speaker 2: a moment. They're very trendy right now. All these brands

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Speaker 2: are trying to collab with them, and Louis Vaitton tried

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Speaker 2: to collab with Birkenstocks and they said, no, it's not

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Speaker 2: orthopedically good.

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Speaker 3: Oh I love her. Never change Birkenstock.

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Speaker 2: Never change Hey. Coming up on today's show, what have

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Speaker 2: We Got?

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Speaker 1: Hailey Bieber has just become my unlikely parenting guru, So

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Speaker 1: I'm going to tell you exactly what she said.

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Speaker 2: Halloween just gets bigger and bigger every year, but are

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Speaker 2: we missing the whole point of it?

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Speaker 4: And the new Victoria Beckham documentary on Netflix has got

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Speaker 4: me thinking about why we love some famous kids and

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Speaker 4: roll our eyes at others.

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Speaker 2: First, Stacy, what stories have we missed this week?

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Speaker 1: This one blew my mind? So I had to bring

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Speaker 1: it to you. Have either of you got a spare

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Speaker 1: thirty k laying around?

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Speaker 4: No?

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Speaker 3: Because that's how much it's.

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Speaker 1: Going to cost for you to get Taylor Humphrey, professional

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Speaker 1: baby namer to name your baby for you.

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Speaker 3: A professional baby name.

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Speaker 1: Ah huh ah. She claimed she just started this out

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Speaker 1: of a passion for babies names.

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Speaker 3: So it's a very nae passion.

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Speaker 4: I have a passion for money. I should start, Yeah,

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Speaker 4: you really should.

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Speaker 3: But she's in hot demand.

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Speaker 1: She's in San Francisco, so a lot of rich and

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Speaker 1: famous people use her, and there is a scale to this.

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Speaker 1: Thirty k is obviously for the more deluxe package. For

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Speaker 1: two hundred bucks, you can get some personalized name ideas

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Speaker 1: in an email. For thirty grand you're getting things like

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Speaker 1: a genealogical research system and think tanks to come up

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Speaker 1: with the perfect name for your baby. And there was

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Speaker 1: this brilliant piece in the San Francisco Chronicle where this

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Speaker 1: luxury real estate agent spoke about how she was about

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Speaker 1: to get kicked out of the hospital because she'd been

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Speaker 1: there so long, but they wouldn't let her leave without

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Speaker 1: naming the baby. They'd chosen the first name. They'd chosen

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Speaker 1: the name Mara, they just couldn't agree on a middle name.

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Speaker 1: So they use this woman on an emergency call to

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Speaker 1: name their baby.

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Speaker 2: What as I'm sorry, that is such a waste to

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Speaker 2: use on a middle name, like, at least use it

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Speaker 2: on the first name.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And do you want to know what the middle

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Speaker 1: name is? This hard earned money got them really nice name.

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Speaker 4: I relate to this, though I think boys' names in particular,

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Speaker 4: I found it really challenging coming up with a boy name.

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Speaker 4: Hard ultimately went with the most popular name of all time,

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Speaker 4: John so maybe we should have used the service.

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Speaker 1: Well, I just feel like they're doing this because it's

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Speaker 1: like renovating a bathroom, like you could do it yourself.

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Speaker 1: But if you've got the money, why would you like

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Speaker 1: just leave it to someone who's really into it.

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Speaker 2: Okay, hear me out.

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Speaker 5: What if this is a good investment, it's saying no.

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Speaker 2: It's like price per war price per use of a

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Speaker 2: name comes down a lot. And also if we're talking

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Speaker 2: return on investment, we talked about this a few weeks

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Speaker 2: ago about how certain names attract certain figures, Like your

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Speaker 2: lifetime earnings can be boosted if you have a certain

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Speaker 2: name over another one. So that could be worth tens

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Speaker 2: of thousands of dollars. So maybe spending thirty grand on

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Speaker 2: a name is an investment. It's a marketing ploy that's

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Speaker 2: going to last a lifetime.

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Speaker 1: For thirty thousand dollars months, I want them to move

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Speaker 1: in and raise the child for me. That is insane.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely not. Just call them Bobby and move on.

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Speaker 5: Please cost per use time.

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Speaker 3: Hey, I've got a story that I just loved this week.

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Speaker 3: It was a real feel good story.

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Speaker 4: So year twelve students all around Australia right now, are

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Speaker 4: sitting their final exams. Do you remember what that moment

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Speaker 4: was like in your life? It was so stressful but exciting.

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Speaker 4: And I just love reading stories about students who've overcome

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Speaker 4: all sorts of challenges to get to that point, and

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Speaker 4: this week there was a real cracker in that genre.

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Speaker 4: Jet Thompson is a kid at Sydney's Mossman High School

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Speaker 4: and he lost his sight.

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Speaker 3: When he was eight.

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Speaker 4: He found that he kept falling down the stairs and

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Speaker 4: so they took him to the optometrist. Next thing they knew,

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Speaker 4: they were at the doctor's office. He had a brain tumor.

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Speaker 4: And the very next day, out of the diagnosis, he

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Speaker 4: goes in for surgery and he comes out and he

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Speaker 4: has lost his sight. And that was at age eight.

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Speaker 4: He found that he couldn't participate in any of the

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Speaker 4: things that he used to love. He couldn't play video games,

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Speaker 4: he couldn't play sports, So he poured himself into his

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Speaker 4: academic work. This is an article on the Sydney Morning Herald,

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Speaker 4: by the way, and he has wound up ducks of

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Speaker 4: his school.

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Speaker 3: Oh how cool.

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Speaker 4: And it's also a story about his amazing teachers. Because

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Speaker 4: he has to do his exams in Braille. So, for instance,

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Speaker 4: his HSC Maths exam goes for seven hours because obviously

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Speaker 4: it takes a long time to read braille. His teachers

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Speaker 4: have all earned Braille so that they can better support

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Speaker 4: him in his studies.

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Speaker 3: This just makes me.

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Speaker 4: Feel so proud of his teachers and of Jet, and

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Speaker 4: we just want to wish Jet all the best in

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Speaker 4: his exams.

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Speaker 3: How good.

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Speaker 2: I loved that story. I want to talk about Halloween,

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Speaker 2: because Halloween's here and it's a full cultural takeover and

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Speaker 2: I want to go there. But first I've got some

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Speaker 2: ground rules. Number one, let's not argue about whether Halloween

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Speaker 2: should be a thing, and number two, let's not talk

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Speaker 2: about how it's too American, and number three, let's not

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Speaker 2: talk about its pagan origins. Okay, because it's not going anywhere.

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Speaker 2: It gets bigger every year and kids lose their mind

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Speaker 2: over it. So what I'm interested in is this. Some

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Speaker 2: people say it's great, it builds community, it's a developmental

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Speaker 2: gold mine. There are psychologists who say this is really

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Speaker 2: important because it gives kids a chance to flirt with

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Speaker 2: kind of dark themes and scary things in quite a

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Speaker 2: safe environment, and it improves social skills talking to neighbors

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Speaker 2: and getting out there. There's this other thought, which is, no,

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Speaker 2: this is just a sugared up stress bomb for parents

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Speaker 2: that are already stretched. It's an environmental nightmare. It's consumerism

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Speaker 2: in it which has had so grab your witches brooms.

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Speaker 2: Let's discuss Amelia. You have American Halloween experience and you're

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Speaker 2: now here, So where do you land on the spectrum?

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Speaker 4: So I think that what's happened with Australian Halloween is

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Speaker 4: that it's taken the worst elements of America and Halloween

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Speaker 4: and none of the good parts of American Halloween. And

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Speaker 4: so of course a lot of Australians are feeling hostile

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Speaker 4: towards it. So let me explain. The reason why Americans

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Speaker 4: love Halloween is because it is about getting to know

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Speaker 4: your neighbors. It is a chance to build community in

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Speaker 4: your neighborhood. When you have young kids, most of the

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Speaker 4: people you spend time with are other people who have

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Speaker 4: young kids. But the great thing that happens when you

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Speaker 4: trick or treat is that the kids get to connect

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Speaker 4: with people in very different life situations that happen to

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Speaker 4: live in your area. And it's often older people who

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Speaker 4: happen to live near them that they would never have

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Speaker 4: had the chance to meet otherwise. I think this is

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Speaker 4: because in the US there's no real social safety net,

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Speaker 4: So if something really bad happens to you, the government

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Speaker 4: is not going to help you out with it. So

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Speaker 4: your neighbors, the people around you, have to step up.

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Speaker 4: And there's a really strong sense of organic community because

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Speaker 4: people know the last safety net between them and crisis

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Speaker 4: other people around them, not the government. And what happens

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Speaker 4: with trick or treating, and why it's such a genius

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Speaker 4: way of creating that sense of community is that you

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Speaker 4: send kids, almost as ambassadors, to go and knock on

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Speaker 4: doors and speak to strangers and ask them for candy.

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Speaker 4: This is precisely what we spend the other three hundred

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Speaker 4: and sixty four days of the year telling children not

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Speaker 4: to do. But on this one day we say, we

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Speaker 4: trust our neighbors enough to send our precious children to

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Speaker 4: their doors to knock on them and to engage with

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Speaker 4: them and to ask for something. There's a trust exercise

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Speaker 4: there that is very powerful, and I think that's why

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Speaker 4: Americans love Halloween so much.

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Speaker 1: I don't agree, because I feel like you go and

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Speaker 1: you knock and you get the chocolate and then you're

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Speaker 1: gone like five seconds later. And in my neighborhood, maybe

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Speaker 1: I'm in the wrong neighborhood, but a lot of people

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Speaker 1: have to drive to other neighborhoods where they really go

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Speaker 1: big with Halloween to then do it there.

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Speaker 3: And that's what I mean about doing it wrong.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, the thing in the US is that in your

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Speaker 4: neighborhood there'll be little block parties. People might do a

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Speaker 4: little barbecue and they'll be like adults sitting in their

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Speaker 4: garden like drinking a beer and waiting for the kids

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Speaker 4: to come by. And there's also no hostility. I think

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Speaker 4: I've done trick or treating here, And I know a

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Speaker 4: lot of Australians think of it as a really sort

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Speaker 4: of toxic American import and they roll their eyes at it.

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Speaker 3: So you're not.

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Speaker 4: Getting that sense of every single house is excited to

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Speaker 4: greet your kids.

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Speaker 3: He's excited to give them the came well.

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Speaker 1: To me, the most exciting bit about it is that

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Speaker 1: you get to have a little sticky beak inside your neighbors' houses.

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Speaker 1: Like I know you're only at the door, but that

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Speaker 1: bit's appealing to me. I always want to know what

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Speaker 1: everyone else's house on my street looks like?

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Speaker 3: Do you even know your neighbors?

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Speaker 4: Like it's telling that you don't really know what the

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Speaker 4: inside of their houses look like.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's true.

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Speaker 1: Where great mates with our neighbors on one side, but

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Speaker 1: yeah the rest of the street no. So maybe this

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Speaker 1: is like an opportunity to open that up.

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Speaker 5: I do think it's a missed opportunity for us.

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Speaker 2: So I was a Halloween hater, but thinking it through

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Speaker 2: to talk to you about it.

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Speaker 5: It has potential.

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Speaker 2: Right, community is really very much needed now and that's

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Speaker 2: the promise of Halloween, and that sounds like what it

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Speaker 2: is in America. I just wish the execution in Australia

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Speaker 2: was that. I wonder if we'll get there, because I

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Speaker 2: think people are really hungry for that connection, Like most

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Speaker 2: of us are raising kids with no time, with no energy,

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Speaker 2: with no aunties, sort of down the road. So instead

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Speaker 2: of it being about community, it does feel like this

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Speaker 2: just pressure cooker of costumes, lollies, plastic, fake spiderwebs that

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Speaker 2: hurt wildlife. Like, oh, there's a lot of drama around it,

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Speaker 2: but I think we are desperate for shared rituals. The

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Speaker 2: thing I like about Halloween is it's a space to

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Speaker 2: do it. It's a way to do it that's not sporting.

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Speaker 2: It's not AFL or NRL, it's not political, it's not

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Speaker 2: divisive like Australia Day slash Invasion Day. So it's non political,

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Speaker 2: non sporting, and so in that sense it has the

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Speaker 2: potential to be quite a good community event in the

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Speaker 2: way that you say.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and what you say about everyone kind of being separated, like,

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Speaker 1: I think that's so important. A lot of us kind

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Speaker 1: of are very siloed and don't talk to the neighbors.

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Speaker 3: And it reminded me.

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Speaker 1: This great piece by Tiffany Watt Smith. She wrote this

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Speaker 1: piece why neighbors are so important in the digital Age,

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Speaker 1: and she spoke about how we kind of all live

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Speaker 1: by that old adage now that good fences make good neighbors.

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Speaker 3: So we're not.

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Speaker 1: Really like as long as they kind of stick to

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Speaker 1: themselves and don't annoy us, then they're a good neighbor.

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Speaker 1: What we need to be doing is kind of leaning

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Speaker 1: into the neighbors around us. That has to start with

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Speaker 1: a moment, and maybe Halloween is that moment. Like when

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Speaker 1: else would you just wander up to a neighbor's house

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Speaker 1: and knock on the door and start a chat.

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Speaker 4: I have a theory as to why I think it's

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Speaker 4: hard for Australians to embrace Halloween. Apart from the American connotations,

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Speaker 4: which I understand, there's a lot going on in America

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Speaker 4: right now that people probably don't want to see come

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Speaker 4: to Australia. I'm wondering if it has something to do

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Speaker 4: with the relationship Australians have with property and with where

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Speaker 4: they live. Think about that old cliche that Australians want

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Speaker 4: a quarter acre block. They want a house, a freestanding

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Speaker 4: house on a quarter acre block. That is a dream

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Speaker 4: that is completely out of reach for a lot of Australia,

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Speaker 4: especially younger Australians, who are now likely renting more than

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Speaker 4: previous generations used to, and don't have a connection to

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Speaker 4: the neighborhood that you might have if you own property

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Speaker 4: in it. Because you know that your landlord could kick

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Speaker 4: you out at any time. You might feel resentful of

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Speaker 4: that lack of permanence in your neighborhood. Do you think

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Speaker 4: that's part of why it might have trouble gaining traction here,

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Speaker 4: because people don't feel that they're grounded than in their

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Speaker 4: community because they're having to rent.

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Speaker 5: I think we've lost our social skills.

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Speaker 2: I think, particularly post COVID, we've really lost our social skills.

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Speaker 2: But I think the other point you touched on Amelia

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Speaker 2: and I know the start I said, this is one

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Speaker 2: of the rules we can't go there is the americanness

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Speaker 2: of it, and that doesn't sit very comfortably with us.

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Speaker 2: And I think it's because the acceleration of Halloween is

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Speaker 2: largely due in fact, to the media that we consume now.

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Speaker 2: So when we were kids, we had really limited options.

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Speaker 2: It was broadcast TV. You've watched Neighbors, You've watched ha

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Speaker 2: Hate Saturday. But now with Netflix, with YouTube, the dominant

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Speaker 2: culture is American culture. So Halloween is this kind of

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Speaker 2: prolific runaway train. It's a prolific part of our kids'

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Speaker 2: media diets. And so, like you say, it's not going anywhere.

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Speaker 2: But where it rankles with us is there is this

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Speaker 2: feeling that we are losing our australianness in this. It

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Speaker 2: feels kind of imperialistic in a way.

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Speaker 1: But I'd argue that's the same with every big kid's

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Speaker 1: event now. Don't you feel like they're all on steroids now,

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Speaker 1: like book week, Easter Hat Parade, like all of.

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Speaker 3: These things that we do. I don't think it is.

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Speaker 1: Necessarily an American problem. I feel like we just have

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Speaker 1: commodified everything to the point where we feel like we

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Speaker 1: have to do it bigger and better every single year.

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Speaker 1: Like everyone's doing those things to the insagree now.

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Speaker 3: The Easter hat parade is a great example.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I discovered that I need to now own and

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Speaker 4: use a glue gun. Yes, I have said my man

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Speaker 4: never never decided that she needed a glue gun to

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Speaker 4: make my Easter hat for the parade. I do think

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Speaker 4: there's an element where children's activities have been turbocharged, and

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Speaker 4: I do take your point once about this feeling that

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Speaker 4: how has kind of been foisted on us as another

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Speaker 4: sort of American commercial activity. It's hard, though, because I

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Speaker 4: want people to understand that the Halloween that they're experiencing

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Speaker 4: here is just simply not as good as it could

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Speaker 4: or should be. But I don't know if we can

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Speaker 4: ever get over that stigma of it seeming American.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but I think it's definitely onto something with that

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Speaker 1: it needs to come back to that focus of community

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Speaker 1: rather than like going and grabbing as many chocolates as

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Speaker 1: you can get.

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Speaker 2: Well.

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Speaker 4: You sent us a great article Stacy this week from

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Speaker 4: the Financial Times that makes the point that we all

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Speaker 4: kind of intuitively know that if we know the people

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Speaker 4: who live around us, it probably makes for a greater

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Speaker 4: sense of stability and rootedness in where we live. And

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Speaker 4: yet there's been remarkably little researched one into the connection

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Speaker 4: between well being and knowing your neighbors.

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Speaker 3: But we all kind of know intuitively that that's a

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Speaker 3: good thing.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: She told this beautiful story and the piece about how

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Speaker 1: she went from kind of being on nodding terms with

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Speaker 1: one of her neighbors, Jan, to being at the point

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Speaker 1: where they had each other's hoase keys, and she kind

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Speaker 1: of got involved towards the end of Jan's life with

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Speaker 1: a lot of her decisions and medical decisions and letting

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Speaker 1: her family know that we're far away how she was doing. So.

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Speaker 1: Not everyone has support nearby, not everyone has family and friends,

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Speaker 1: super clothes, but everyone has a neighbor, so it probably

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Speaker 1: should be something we're exploring more.

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Speaker 2: Hugh McKay is this amazing Australian social researcher Amelia who

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Speaker 2: does make that link. He wrote a book about it

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Speaker 2: a couple of years ago and talked about how community

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Speaker 2: is built in small gestures over a long period of time.

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Speaker 2: So it's bringing the neighbor's bin in taking over some biscuits.

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Speaker 2: It's just these tiny little moments over a sustained period,

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Speaker 2: not necessarily throwing your hand in the lolly bowl once

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Speaker 2: a year.

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Speaker 4: I love that takeover some biscuits, because that's not American

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Speaker 4: Americans would say takeover some cookies. We can all agree

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Speaker 4: that we should be taking our neighbors and biscuits.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, is there a way to resist it? Or do

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Speaker 2: we just have to roll over and accept that we're

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Speaker 2: going to be in the shops the day before buying

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Speaker 2: a twenty four pack of Caramela qualas.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I think we do need to accept that, because I

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Speaker 1: think the thing is we can resist, but they're little

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Speaker 1: for such a small period of time, and I feel like,

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Speaker 1: just like with Christmas Halloween, is that time it can

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Speaker 1: be a bit of joy and a bit of silliness

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Speaker 1: and it doesn't need to be so serious. So as

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Speaker 1: much as we say, oh, it's one of those things

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Speaker 1: where we're buying more stuff, we'll probably all end up

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Speaker 1: throwing together a costume at the last minute and getting

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Speaker 1: out there because at the end of the day, it

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Speaker 1: is a bit of joy with our children and we

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Speaker 1: could alway use a bit of that.

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Speaker 4: My prediction there's going to be some K pop demon

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Speaker 4: hunters out there on the streets.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think there is going to be a lot

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Speaker 1: of purple braids selling out Foreshore, I now have an

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Speaker 1: unlikely parenting guru, and it's Hailey Bieber. So a lot

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Speaker 1: of people will know her as Justin Bieber's wife, but

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Speaker 1: they shouldn't because she's really incredible and she's just sold

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Speaker 1: her business road for one billion dollars, like she is

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Speaker 1: no joke. And she was interviewed by the Wall Street

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Speaker 1: Journal and they were asking her what the most surprising

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Speaker 1: parts about becoming a mama, and she had the most

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Speaker 1: eloquent answer.

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Speaker 3: Take a listen.

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Speaker 6: When you become a you change a lot, and I

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Speaker 6: think you don't know what to expect, and I think

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Speaker 6: that's very hard. Before it happens, you're like I can't

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Speaker 6: wait to go back to blank, or like I can't

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Speaker 6: wait until I feel like blank again.

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Speaker 3: I think a lot of the.

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Speaker 6: Time there isn't a going back of sorts.

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Speaker 3: It's like you.

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Speaker 6: Become a mom and then you move forward from there,

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Speaker 6: and that's a whole other journey in itself. I feel

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Speaker 6: like becoming a mom has given me a different kind

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Speaker 6: of like confidence to be more upfront and say how

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Speaker 6: I really feel and like not have to hold back

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Speaker 6: because you're your child's advocate. And I think it's helped

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Speaker 6: me advocate for myself more.

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Speaker 3: I love that, isn't it great?

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Speaker 1: It's kind of like the mental load in the best

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Speaker 1: possible way, Like, once you've got so much on and

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Speaker 1: you've got a child, you go, you know what, I

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Speaker 1: don't care anymore. These are the things that matter to me,

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Speaker 1: and it kind of brings out fury in a good way.

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Speaker 2: This is something that no one tells you will happen

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Speaker 2: when you become a mom. Yeah, you say, oh, your

397
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Speaker 2: nipples will bleed and it's you'll be so tired, But

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Speaker 2: no one tells you about the moment that you step

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Speaker 2: into like mum mode and it's quite powerful and it's

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Speaker 2: fucking awesome. So the bit I love about this, why

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Speaker 2: this is so important that Hailey Bieber has done this

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Speaker 2: is because she's saying motherhood makes you stronger, read even

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Speaker 2: better at your job, and that is so important because

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Speaker 2: there are multiple studies out there by psychologists, sociologists, anthropologists

405
00:18:31,445 --> 00:18:35,685
Speaker 2: saying that there exists a motherhood penalty in the workplace

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Speaker 2: where mothers are viewed as less competent, less committed, and

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Speaker 2: less suited to leadership. So Hailey Bieber saying basically the opposite,

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Speaker 2: she's an extremely influential, powerful business woman.

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Speaker 5: Like that is culture shifting and that is important.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure.

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Speaker 1: And I think we talk about mum rage a lot,

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Speaker 1: like that's kind of become the new thing that everyone

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Speaker 1: was like, Oh, we never got told about this before,

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Speaker 1: and we do now. But I feel like what she's

415
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Speaker 1: talking about is more that being harnessed in a way

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Speaker 1: for your child, Like you do feel like you get

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00:19:06,685 --> 00:19:10,925
Speaker 1: really protective over them, and by doing so, you advocate

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Speaker 1: for yourself more as well.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I found this the use of her word advocate

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Speaker 4: or advocate really interesting because that is exactly what you

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Speaker 4: have to become for your child. They can't call the

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Speaker 4: people that need to be called to get medical appointments,

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Speaker 4: they can't talk to the teacher about the educational issues

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Speaker 4: that your child is going through. You have to step

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Speaker 4: into that and assert yourself even if you've spent your

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Speaker 4: whole life kind of avoiding situations of confrontation. So I

427
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Speaker 4: found it really astute of her to point out that

428
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Speaker 4: in stepping into that assertive mode for your child, you

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Speaker 4: also find yourself doing it more for yourself. Your personality changes.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it does. I don't want to offend people that

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Speaker 2: don't have children, but and I don't want to use

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Speaker 2: that term like as a mum, but who I am

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Speaker 2: in the workplace, Like becoming a mother made me a

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Speaker 2: better manager. It may be better at work. And it's

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Speaker 2: frustrating that the studies say that the bias is the

436
00:20:03,765 --> 00:20:07,565
Speaker 2: opposite way that people view you as more incompetent, because

437
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Speaker 2: I think the opposite's true, and that's what she's saying. Yay, yay, Hailey.

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Speaker 3: It certainly made me more efficient at work.

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Speaker 4: And it speaks to this idea of balance between work

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Speaker 4: and parenting in that sometimes I feel like I'm spending

441
00:20:21,805 --> 00:20:24,484
Speaker 4: too much of my mental energies on work and not

442
00:20:24,725 --> 00:20:28,244
Speaker 4: enough on my children. Having to tune in constantly to

443
00:20:28,484 --> 00:20:31,365
Speaker 4: how much effort you're putting in at work versus out

444
00:20:31,365 --> 00:20:33,885
Speaker 4: of work, that's not a question that you have unless

445
00:20:33,925 --> 00:20:36,325
Speaker 4: you're juggling family, responsibilities.

446
00:20:36,525 --> 00:20:36,725
Speaker 2: Yeah.

447
00:20:36,765 --> 00:20:40,125
Speaker 1: I thought it was really endearing of her to say that,

448
00:20:40,205 --> 00:20:43,284
Speaker 1: and really touching actually that she said it and was like,

449
00:20:43,645 --> 00:20:46,844
Speaker 1: it's okay, you can feel this way now. I loved it,

450
00:20:47,045 --> 00:20:49,525
Speaker 1: and I loved at the start where she spoke about

451
00:20:49,845 --> 00:20:52,205
Speaker 1: how you kind of think you'll get to go back,

452
00:20:52,245 --> 00:20:54,045
Speaker 1: like it's all about once I have a baby, I'll

453
00:20:54,045 --> 00:20:55,645
Speaker 1: get back to this and I'll get back to that,

454
00:20:56,165 --> 00:20:58,125
Speaker 1: and that is just never what happens. And I know

455
00:20:58,285 --> 00:21:00,445
Speaker 1: I definitely thought that for a long time. I think

456
00:21:00,484 --> 00:21:02,685
Speaker 1: I was a bit in denial about the fact that

457
00:21:02,685 --> 00:21:05,004
Speaker 1: that version of me was gone. So I like that

458
00:21:05,045 --> 00:21:07,285
Speaker 1: she was talking about, you know, there's no going back now,

459
00:21:07,365 --> 00:21:09,484
Speaker 1: there's only moving forward from here, and that is a

460
00:21:09,484 --> 00:21:10,365
Speaker 1: different version.

461
00:21:11,125 --> 00:21:12,885
Speaker 3: Did you feel the same? Absolutely.

462
00:21:12,965 --> 00:21:15,165
Speaker 4: I remember that shortly after my first child was born,

463
00:21:15,205 --> 00:21:17,685
Speaker 4: I tried to go out for a fancy dinner with

464
00:21:17,925 --> 00:21:18,645
Speaker 4: the kid in.

465
00:21:18,565 --> 00:21:20,405
Speaker 3: The car seat just at our feet.

466
00:21:20,484 --> 00:21:24,165
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, And it was awful because even though he was,

467
00:21:24,365 --> 00:21:28,965
Speaker 4: you know, absolutely appropriately behaved for his age, I felt

468
00:21:29,005 --> 00:21:32,085
Speaker 4: so stressed out the whole time. I couldn't enjoy myself.

469
00:21:32,484 --> 00:21:34,485
Speaker 4: You know, you often hear people say I don't want

470
00:21:34,565 --> 00:21:38,125
Speaker 4: children to change me. Hailey is saying they're gonna change you,

471
00:21:38,325 --> 00:21:39,365
Speaker 4: and that's okay.

472
00:21:39,045 --> 00:21:39,525
Speaker 3: It's okay.

473
00:21:39,885 --> 00:21:40,805
Speaker 1: I actually like Hayley.

474
00:21:40,845 --> 00:21:42,205
Speaker 3: Now, I don't I go and get.

475
00:21:42,085 --> 00:21:45,285
Speaker 4: Some of her peptide glazing fluid because that sounds like

476
00:21:45,325 --> 00:21:47,285
Speaker 4: an important product for someone who.

477
00:21:47,205 --> 00:21:48,525
Speaker 3: Doesn't sleep a lot. It does.

478
00:21:49,405 --> 00:21:52,365
Speaker 4: There's a new documentary about Victoria Beckham on Netflix, and

479
00:21:52,484 --> 00:21:57,925
Speaker 4: the breakout star is absolutely her fourteen year old daughter Harper. Yes,

480
00:21:58,365 --> 00:22:01,165
Speaker 4: she's the only one of the Beckham's four children who

481
00:22:01,205 --> 00:22:03,885
Speaker 4: was still living at home and so that's part of

482
00:22:03,885 --> 00:22:05,804
Speaker 4: why she gets a lot of screen time. But I

483
00:22:05,845 --> 00:22:08,325
Speaker 4: think she's also on screen a lot because she's just.

484
00:22:08,285 --> 00:22:09,484
Speaker 3: Really charming and funny.

485
00:22:09,605 --> 00:22:11,965
Speaker 4: Like at one point, Victoria is going to get an

486
00:22:12,005 --> 00:22:16,245
Speaker 4: award from Harper's Bizarre and Harper says, why is.

487
00:22:16,165 --> 00:22:16,725
Speaker 3: It called that?

488
00:22:16,885 --> 00:22:19,564
Speaker 4: And Victoria says, well, it's the name of a fashion magazine,

489
00:22:19,645 --> 00:22:22,004
Speaker 4: and Harper says, I'd always just assumed that it was

490
00:22:22,085 --> 00:22:26,484
Speaker 4: named after me, and very winning about that. So it

491
00:22:26,605 --> 00:22:29,645
Speaker 4: wasn't surprising to read reports this week that said that

492
00:22:29,685 --> 00:22:33,285
Speaker 4: Harper is starting her own beauty line, and there's been

493
00:22:33,365 --> 00:22:37,445
Speaker 4: a Hiku by Harper trademark application put in the Sun reports.

494
00:22:37,965 --> 00:22:39,925
Speaker 4: Her mum apparently wants it to be as big as

495
00:22:39,965 --> 00:22:43,885
Speaker 4: Kylie Jenner's lip kits. I bet she does, And to

496
00:22:43,925 --> 00:22:45,645
Speaker 4: be honest, it sounds like a great idea to me.

497
00:22:45,805 --> 00:22:49,325
Speaker 4: But I did have to check myself because I wondered

498
00:22:49,365 --> 00:22:53,485
Speaker 4: why I'm cheering on this NEPO baby starting a business,

499
00:22:54,005 --> 00:22:57,605
Speaker 4: and yet in Victoria and David Beckham's family, there's another

500
00:22:57,885 --> 00:23:02,165
Speaker 4: quite famous NEPO baby who we all unfortunately roll our.

501
00:23:02,085 --> 00:23:04,405
Speaker 3: Eyes at, and that would be brother Brooklyn.

502
00:23:04,765 --> 00:23:08,165
Speaker 4: He's tried as a reminder, photography, he's tried cooking, he's

503
00:23:08,205 --> 00:23:13,285
Speaker 4: tried social media influencing, and rather famously, he's flamed out

504
00:23:13,445 --> 00:23:17,645
Speaker 4: at every turn. Yeah, so my question is why are

505
00:23:17,645 --> 00:23:22,085
Speaker 4: they good NEPO babies and bad NEPO babies? Yeah.

506
00:23:22,245 --> 00:23:26,445
Speaker 2: I think the core of it is about fairness and effort.

507
00:23:26,925 --> 00:23:29,284
Speaker 1: I have a theory about this, and I feel like

508
00:23:29,405 --> 00:23:34,165
Speaker 1: it all comes down to their skill or perceived skill.

509
00:23:34,525 --> 00:23:36,764
Speaker 1: So I think we very much have the feeling of

510
00:23:36,845 --> 00:23:38,605
Speaker 1: you can have it as long as you're good at it.

511
00:23:39,045 --> 00:23:42,365
Speaker 1: So if they are Dakota Johnson, who's the daughter of

512
00:23:42,484 --> 00:23:46,284
Speaker 1: Melanie Griffith, then that's okay because you've proved yourself as

513
00:23:46,285 --> 00:23:48,205
Speaker 1: a pretty good actress, like you can do it. Same

514
00:23:48,285 --> 00:23:51,845
Speaker 1: with Zoe Kravitz's daughter of Lenny kraviatzs. It's when they

515
00:23:52,205 --> 00:23:54,325
Speaker 1: take that privilege but don't have the skill to back

516
00:23:54,365 --> 00:23:56,244
Speaker 1: it up that I think we get our back up

517
00:23:56,285 --> 00:23:58,885
Speaker 1: about it. Like, my dad's an electrician. If I've gone

518
00:23:58,885 --> 00:24:01,405
Speaker 1: into his family business and become an electrician and been

519
00:24:01,445 --> 00:24:03,445
Speaker 1: good at it, I doubt anyone would have said anything.

520
00:24:03,605 --> 00:24:05,805
Speaker 1: If I went in there and displayed the skills I own,

521
00:24:06,085 --> 00:24:09,085
Speaker 1: which are none for that, then people would be annoyed.

522
00:24:09,205 --> 00:24:10,925
Speaker 1: So I think it's the same in every day life

523
00:24:10,965 --> 00:24:13,445
Speaker 1: and in the celebrity world. You have to be able

524
00:24:13,445 --> 00:24:15,284
Speaker 1: to prove yourself and back it up. Sure you can

525
00:24:15,325 --> 00:24:17,365
Speaker 1: take the privilege, but you need to be able to

526
00:24:17,405 --> 00:24:17,844
Speaker 1: back it up.

527
00:24:18,005 --> 00:24:20,405
Speaker 4: I think that's interesting, but I want to throw out

528
00:24:20,484 --> 00:24:23,764
Speaker 4: that there's some wrinkles in that theory. So, for instance,

529
00:24:23,885 --> 00:24:26,925
Speaker 4: Nicole Kidman just went to Paris Fashion Week with two

530
00:24:26,965 --> 00:24:30,365
Speaker 4: of her daughters, including seventeen year old Sunday Rose Urban,

531
00:24:30,445 --> 00:24:32,645
Speaker 4: who has walked the runway as a model for Your

532
00:24:33,005 --> 00:24:36,365
Speaker 4: Nami Watt's Nicole Kidman's best friend. Her daughter Kai is

533
00:24:36,405 --> 00:24:39,845
Speaker 4: also launching a modeling career, and I think in something

534
00:24:39,885 --> 00:24:43,005
Speaker 4: like modeling. I think it would be wrong to say

535
00:24:43,005 --> 00:24:46,405
Speaker 4: that we're just assessing their skill in the abstract. We

536
00:24:46,525 --> 00:24:49,244
Speaker 4: are thinking about their parents when we're deciding whether or

537
00:24:49,285 --> 00:24:50,244
Speaker 4: not they're a good model.

538
00:24:50,765 --> 00:24:53,685
Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe modeling is a different kettle of fish because

539
00:24:53,725 --> 00:24:55,205
Speaker 1: it's so subjective.

540
00:24:55,525 --> 00:25:01,004
Speaker 5: This is all about branding and cut through and p R.

541
00:25:01,365 --> 00:25:03,564
Speaker 3: But why does some of the branding work? And like

542
00:25:03,645 --> 00:25:05,645
Speaker 3: the idea of a family business.

543
00:25:05,365 --> 00:25:06,325
Speaker 5: Which one works?

544
00:25:06,405 --> 00:25:06,764
Speaker 2: Tell me?

545
00:25:07,045 --> 00:25:10,285
Speaker 4: Well, for instance, Ben Stiller, he has a new doc

546
00:25:10,365 --> 00:25:13,484
Speaker 4: comentary out about his parents. It's called Stiller and Miara

547
00:25:13,565 --> 00:25:16,125
Speaker 4: and Nothing is lost. Now, his parents were actors, not

548
00:25:16,165 --> 00:25:18,765
Speaker 4: as successful as Ben Stiller, but his dad you would

549
00:25:18,805 --> 00:25:22,165
Speaker 4: have seen and Seinfeld as George's father. And the whole

550
00:25:22,205 --> 00:25:25,044
Speaker 4: point of that documentary is he's exploring the ways in

551
00:25:25,085 --> 00:25:28,525
Speaker 4: which his parents influenced his acting career, both in good

552
00:25:28,605 --> 00:25:31,725
Speaker 4: and bad ways. The example he gives is that he

553
00:25:31,765 --> 00:25:34,525
Speaker 4: really wanted to pursue comic acting. Remember he was in Zoolander.

554
00:25:34,565 --> 00:25:37,045
Speaker 4: We sort of forget that now that he's producing severance

555
00:25:37,045 --> 00:25:39,125
Speaker 4: and has become so serious, But he used to be

556
00:25:39,165 --> 00:25:41,845
Speaker 4: a well known comic actor. And he talks in the

557
00:25:41,885 --> 00:25:44,285
Speaker 4: documentary about the fact that his mother really tried to

558
00:25:44,325 --> 00:25:47,605
Speaker 4: dissuade him from that, and he speculates it's because she

559
00:25:47,805 --> 00:25:50,965
Speaker 4: never had the comedic acting career that she wanted, and

560
00:25:51,045 --> 00:25:53,165
Speaker 4: so she was kind of putting this all on Ben

561
00:25:53,245 --> 00:25:56,004
Speaker 4: and saying I didn't get what I wanted in comic acting.

562
00:25:56,445 --> 00:25:58,484
Speaker 4: I'm really scared for you, and I don't want you

563
00:25:58,525 --> 00:25:59,844
Speaker 4: to fall into the same trap.

564
00:26:00,245 --> 00:26:03,524
Speaker 1: Maybe it's perceived effort. Then maybe that's what it is.

565
00:26:04,085 --> 00:26:07,125
Speaker 1: That you're wanting people who are really putting in the time,

566
00:26:07,365 --> 00:26:09,804
Speaker 1: like Ben Stiller. We go, yeah, yeah, you're fine, you

567
00:26:09,845 --> 00:26:12,605
Speaker 1: get a part. It's when they do something like a model,

568
00:26:12,605 --> 00:26:14,645
Speaker 1: which does have a lot of stigma around it, that

569
00:26:14,685 --> 00:26:16,564
Speaker 1: we'd go, oh, you don't really do anything, you just

570
00:26:16,605 --> 00:26:19,045
Speaker 1: walk down a runway. And I think that is why

571
00:26:19,085 --> 00:26:22,125
Speaker 1: Brooklyn Beckham gets such a hard time. There is this

572
00:26:22,205 --> 00:26:24,284
Speaker 1: video that has lived rent free in my mind for

573
00:26:24,325 --> 00:26:26,804
Speaker 1: about three years now where he got approached on the

574
00:26:26,805 --> 00:26:29,645
Speaker 1: street by a TikToker who was like, hey, man, I

575
00:26:29,685 --> 00:26:32,284
Speaker 1: love your car, what do you do for a job.

576
00:26:32,605 --> 00:26:35,365
Speaker 1: Because he's in a one point two million dollar convertible

577
00:26:35,405 --> 00:26:38,125
Speaker 1: going down Rodeo Drive and he looks at the guy

578
00:26:38,165 --> 00:26:41,244
Speaker 1: and looks a bit uncomfortable and goes, ah, I'm a chef,

579
00:26:41,725 --> 00:26:44,885
Speaker 1: and he's like, yeah, cool, and he drives off. Now

580
00:26:45,205 --> 00:26:47,084
Speaker 1: that may have been Brooklyn just trying to be very

581
00:26:47,165 --> 00:26:49,365
Speaker 1: humble and not wanting to say my parents are worth

582
00:26:49,365 --> 00:26:52,165
Speaker 1: five hundred million dollars, which is really probably how he

583
00:26:52,205 --> 00:26:54,484
Speaker 1: got the car because he's not actually a chef. He

584
00:26:54,925 --> 00:26:58,445
Speaker 1: cooks and films it. But I think maybe that's what

585
00:26:58,484 --> 00:27:01,044
Speaker 1: it is that annoys us, is that they handed a

586
00:27:01,125 --> 00:27:03,685
Speaker 1: lot of privilege, and so we're like, if you're getting that,

587
00:27:04,125 --> 00:27:06,125
Speaker 1: you better be putting in the work to get it.

588
00:27:06,165 --> 00:27:07,445
Speaker 3: And I think that's the distinction.

589
00:27:07,765 --> 00:27:10,125
Speaker 2: I hard agree Stacy, because I think at the core

590
00:27:10,125 --> 00:27:13,925
Speaker 2: of this, this is fairness and fairness something that's really

591
00:27:13,925 --> 00:27:16,845
Speaker 2: hardwired from an early age. Like there are studies showing

592
00:27:16,885 --> 00:27:19,245
Speaker 2: that toddlers even get upset when other people get more

593
00:27:19,245 --> 00:27:21,645
Speaker 2: cake than them. You know, kids will often say that's

594
00:27:21,685 --> 00:27:24,324
Speaker 2: not fair. It's a very common refrain. So when we

595
00:27:24,365 --> 00:27:27,804
Speaker 2: see someone that's five steps ahead, that gets to start

596
00:27:27,885 --> 00:27:30,765
Speaker 2: five steps ahead, it kind of does trigger something quite

597
00:27:30,765 --> 00:27:33,925
Speaker 2: primal in us. So it's not necessarily about the NEPO

598
00:27:34,005 --> 00:27:37,084
Speaker 2: babies themselves. It's about what they represent, and that is

599
00:27:37,085 --> 00:27:40,885
Speaker 2: that sometimes a lot of the time, the system is rigged.

600
00:27:41,325 --> 00:27:41,565
Speaker 1: Yeah.

601
00:27:41,605 --> 00:27:43,845
Speaker 4: But here's what I'm going to push back on the

602
00:27:43,845 --> 00:27:47,205
Speaker 4: idea that parents wanting their children to have the best

603
00:27:47,245 --> 00:27:51,565
Speaker 4: start in whatever they're interested in is somehow morally wrong.

604
00:27:52,165 --> 00:27:55,565
Speaker 4: If my children want to go into podcasting or journalism,

605
00:27:55,645 --> 00:27:58,284
Speaker 4: I'm going to do everything I can to make that work.

606
00:27:58,765 --> 00:28:00,005
Speaker 3: Yeah. And then that's the thing.

607
00:28:00,125 --> 00:28:02,685
Speaker 1: If you've got the opportunity there to give your child

608
00:28:02,685 --> 00:28:04,685
Speaker 1: a leg up, should you or should you let them

609
00:28:04,685 --> 00:28:07,605
Speaker 1: struggle to get resilience? Like I think if I look

610
00:28:07,605 --> 00:28:09,605
Speaker 1: at my eye would help, I would help. I would

611
00:28:09,645 --> 00:28:11,484
Speaker 1: use whatever I have it my disposal to help my

612
00:28:11,565 --> 00:28:13,965
Speaker 1: child get ahead. Of course, but is that a bad

613
00:28:14,005 --> 00:28:16,845
Speaker 1: example of like bulldozer parenting where you're just clearing the

614
00:28:16,885 --> 00:28:17,525
Speaker 1: path for them?

615
00:28:17,605 --> 00:28:20,045
Speaker 4: And also, how is this different to the very cozy

616
00:28:20,285 --> 00:28:23,205
Speaker 4: notion of a family business. We love the idea of

617
00:28:23,245 --> 00:28:26,885
Speaker 4: small businesses that are passed down from generation to generation.

618
00:28:27,045 --> 00:28:28,925
Speaker 4: We think that's a good thing when it comes to

619
00:28:28,965 --> 00:28:31,205
Speaker 4: a small business. So why does that become a bad

620
00:28:31,285 --> 00:28:33,005
Speaker 4: thing when we're talking about acting or.

621
00:28:32,925 --> 00:28:34,605
Speaker 5: Modeling family businesses.

622
00:28:35,005 --> 00:28:37,804
Speaker 2: You learn from a really early age that there are

623
00:28:37,805 --> 00:28:40,405
Speaker 2: a lot of really hard work and most of us

624
00:28:40,445 --> 00:28:41,805
Speaker 2: are out here telling our kids.

625
00:28:41,845 --> 00:28:44,645
Speaker 5: Hey, life's not fair, but you've got to work hard anyway.

626
00:28:44,725 --> 00:28:46,805
Speaker 3: Can I ask, have you actually said that to your kids?

627
00:28:47,005 --> 00:28:47,925
Speaker 3: Life's not Yes?

628
00:28:48,085 --> 00:28:51,045
Speaker 5: Absolutely, I say it all the time. My parents said

629
00:28:51,085 --> 00:28:53,285
Speaker 5: it all the time to me. It's not fair.

630
00:28:53,365 --> 00:28:55,525
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, life's not fair, but you've just got to

631
00:28:55,605 --> 00:28:59,005
Speaker 2: work hard and show up anyway. And then along comes

632
00:28:59,045 --> 00:29:02,365
Speaker 2: people who get to skip the queue. Harper Beckham starting

633
00:29:02,405 --> 00:29:05,565
Speaker 2: a skincare line. How hard is she working on that?

634
00:29:05,965 --> 00:29:09,565
Speaker 2: Is that just savvy marketing and positioning is Victoria Beckham

635
00:29:09,605 --> 00:29:12,765
Speaker 2: and her advice is going, Hey, skincare for the eleven

636
00:29:12,805 --> 00:29:18,125
Speaker 2: to fourteen year old market is absolutely through the roof. Mecca, Sephora,

637
00:29:18,205 --> 00:29:21,965
Speaker 2: Alta Beauty all have specific marketing campaigns trying to get

638
00:29:21,965 --> 00:29:25,765
Speaker 2: these children to buy more products. Let's shoehorn in on that.

639
00:29:26,365 --> 00:29:29,005
Speaker 2: It feels kind of icky, it feels rigged.

640
00:29:29,245 --> 00:29:31,685
Speaker 1: That's exactly what you say about skipping the cue.

641
00:29:31,685 --> 00:29:32,405
Speaker 3: That's what it is.

642
00:29:32,845 --> 00:29:35,685
Speaker 1: Nothing makes us more annoyed than in someone pushes in

643
00:29:35,685 --> 00:29:37,925
Speaker 1: front of us, and that's what neffo babies do.

644
00:29:38,165 --> 00:29:40,445
Speaker 4: I feel like there are two types of parents, and

645
00:29:40,485 --> 00:29:42,925
Speaker 4: I'm setting aside the famous people here. There are the

646
00:29:43,005 --> 00:29:45,365
Speaker 4: parents who tell their kids' life is not fair. Yeah,

647
00:29:45,365 --> 00:29:47,245
Speaker 4: this is obviously one of them. Are you one of

648
00:29:47,245 --> 00:29:48,085
Speaker 4: those parents?

649
00:29:48,325 --> 00:29:49,565
Speaker 3: H I don't. I don't know.

650
00:29:50,045 --> 00:29:52,125
Speaker 4: And then there's a second group that is not telling

651
00:29:52,165 --> 00:29:54,405
Speaker 4: their children that. I have not told my children that

652
00:29:54,525 --> 00:29:56,885
Speaker 4: Mon's I kind of don't want them to know that

653
00:29:57,085 --> 00:29:59,205
Speaker 4: until they discover it for themselves.

654
00:29:59,445 --> 00:30:00,965
Speaker 2: And then what's going to happen when they discover it

655
00:30:01,005 --> 00:30:02,805
Speaker 2: for themselves and you haven't prepared them for that.

656
00:30:03,085 --> 00:30:05,685
Speaker 4: I guess my thinking is that if I tell my

657
00:30:05,765 --> 00:30:12,285
Speaker 4: children life is not fair, I assume that life won't

658
00:30:12,285 --> 00:30:13,325
Speaker 4: be fair for them.

659
00:30:13,685 --> 00:30:15,125
Speaker 3: I think it's almost superstitious.

660
00:30:15,205 --> 00:30:17,165
Speaker 4: I think if I tell them life is not fair,

661
00:30:17,685 --> 00:30:19,605
Speaker 4: then their life is not going to be fair. And

662
00:30:19,685 --> 00:30:21,965
Speaker 4: I realized there might be something irrational about that. It

663
00:30:22,085 --> 00:30:24,365
Speaker 4: just feels like too big a truth to put on children.

664
00:30:24,565 --> 00:30:26,325
Speaker 4: I just want them to discover it for themselves.

665
00:30:26,485 --> 00:30:28,205
Speaker 2: What do you say then, when they scream at you

666
00:30:28,245 --> 00:30:30,765
Speaker 2: that's not fair? What do you say? You know?

667
00:30:30,925 --> 00:30:33,125
Speaker 4: To be honest, I think you're really hitting a nerve here,

668
00:30:33,125 --> 00:30:36,325
Speaker 4: which is I'm probably one of those bulldoze of parents

669
00:30:36,365 --> 00:30:39,125
Speaker 4: who's trying to get all the impediments out of the way,

670
00:30:39,165 --> 00:30:42,365
Speaker 4: and when they scream at me about that. My first

671
00:30:42,405 --> 00:30:45,885
Speaker 4: instinct is probably to try and fix the problem. And

672
00:30:45,965 --> 00:30:49,085
Speaker 4: maybe that's why I'm protecting the Neppo baby parents.

673
00:30:49,085 --> 00:30:52,245
Speaker 3: Oh we David and Victoria. I think that's what's happening.

674
00:30:52,405 --> 00:30:54,365
Speaker 4: I'm going to choose this moment to announce that my

675
00:30:54,485 --> 00:30:57,645
Speaker 4: daughter is launching her own skincare line for the coveted

676
00:30:57,765 --> 00:31:02,205
Speaker 4: five to seven age group. It will leachure retinals and exfoliants,

677
00:31:02,685 --> 00:31:04,685
Speaker 4: I will frankly.

678
00:31:06,845 --> 00:31:09,845
Speaker 2: Every week we bring you the things we are loving sick,

679
00:31:09,965 --> 00:31:14,285
Speaker 2: these random little life upgrades, hacks and tidbits and recommendations

680
00:31:14,365 --> 00:31:17,365
Speaker 2: that you didn't even know you needed. And Stacy, have

681
00:31:17,445 --> 00:31:20,765
Speaker 2: you noticed how much Amelia keeps us guessing? Like some

682
00:31:20,845 --> 00:31:23,405
Speaker 2: weeks it's the reject shop, and then the week after

683
00:31:23,445 --> 00:31:26,165
Speaker 2: it's something very highbrow. She's a mystery.

684
00:31:26,205 --> 00:31:30,805
Speaker 1: Rocks, painting rocks. He's my favorite. Yeah, you never never know.

685
00:31:31,325 --> 00:31:33,165
Speaker 1: We let her surprise us every week.

686
00:31:33,445 --> 00:31:34,725
Speaker 5: What's it this week, Amelia?

687
00:31:35,165 --> 00:31:36,845
Speaker 3: This week is a little bit high brow?

688
00:31:37,005 --> 00:31:37,965
Speaker 2: Oh okay.

689
00:31:38,405 --> 00:31:42,125
Speaker 4: Over the holidays I went down the New South Wales

690
00:31:42,245 --> 00:31:45,685
Speaker 4: south coast with my family and as everyone knows, when

691
00:31:45,725 --> 00:31:47,805
Speaker 4: you get out of the city, you look up at

692
00:31:47,845 --> 00:31:51,565
Speaker 4: the night sky and it does inspire or because you're

693
00:31:51,605 --> 00:31:54,085
Speaker 4: just looking up there at all these stars that you

694
00:31:54,245 --> 00:31:57,525
Speaker 4: never see when you're in the middle of the smog

695
00:31:57,605 --> 00:32:00,605
Speaker 4: filled city. When we were down there and we were

696
00:32:00,645 --> 00:32:04,685
Speaker 4: looking at the stars, I downloaded an app called Stellarium.

697
00:32:05,005 --> 00:32:07,965
Speaker 4: It's free to use, and it maps the constellations for you.

698
00:32:08,005 --> 00:32:10,844
Speaker 4: Because I'm terrible at the constellations. I can never actually

699
00:32:10,845 --> 00:32:11,485
Speaker 4: see what they're.

700
00:32:11,365 --> 00:32:17,165
Speaker 3: Meant to be. Yeah, I've got that one.

701
00:32:17,645 --> 00:32:20,565
Speaker 4: And my favorite feature of this app is it has

702
00:32:20,605 --> 00:32:24,005
Speaker 4: a tab called Star Cultures, and basically you can select

703
00:32:24,165 --> 00:32:28,525
Speaker 4: different cultures constellations, so it has very specific Polynesian and

704
00:32:28,565 --> 00:32:31,925
Speaker 4: indigenous cultures within this tab, and you can see how

705
00:32:32,085 --> 00:32:35,565
Speaker 4: even though everyone's looking at the same night sky, there've

706
00:32:35,605 --> 00:32:39,965
Speaker 4: been these wonderful and unique stories developed by different cultures

707
00:32:39,965 --> 00:32:42,045
Speaker 4: as to how to interpret them. And I just love

708
00:32:42,125 --> 00:32:44,525
Speaker 4: that idea. And the other great thing about this app

709
00:32:44,965 --> 00:32:47,845
Speaker 4: is that the animation of the constellation, so you actually

710
00:32:47,845 --> 00:32:49,725
Speaker 4: literally hold it up at the stars and then it

711
00:32:49,765 --> 00:32:52,645
Speaker 4: will animate the constellations that you see as you move

712
00:32:52,685 --> 00:32:56,325
Speaker 4: your phone around. And the animations are really amazing and

713
00:32:56,885 --> 00:32:59,925
Speaker 4: it just sparked a lot of wonder in all of us,

714
00:33:00,005 --> 00:33:01,045
Speaker 4: the kids and the adults.

715
00:33:02,125 --> 00:33:05,485
Speaker 2: You had this moment outside looking at the stars.

716
00:33:06,245 --> 00:33:08,925
Speaker 5: You had to optimize it by getting your phone out.

717
00:33:09,285 --> 00:33:11,525
Speaker 2: Why don't you just look at the stars and let

718
00:33:11,565 --> 00:33:13,645
Speaker 2: the stars be stars? And then, Emilia, you're telling me

719
00:33:13,685 --> 00:33:16,045
Speaker 2: that you're looking at the stars through your phone. Are

720
00:33:16,085 --> 00:33:16,645
Speaker 2: you okay?

721
00:33:17,085 --> 00:33:18,125
Speaker 3: What look?

722
00:33:18,445 --> 00:33:20,885
Speaker 4: As listeners to this podcast will know, I am a

723
00:33:20,965 --> 00:33:24,165
Speaker 4: proud type bee in a collection of Type a's and

724
00:33:24,245 --> 00:33:26,725
Speaker 4: us Type bes need a little bit of help telling

725
00:33:26,885 --> 00:33:29,685
Speaker 4: exactly which the Southern Cross is. And I'm so sorry

726
00:33:29,685 --> 00:33:32,084
Speaker 4: that I can't just see it automatically when I look up.

727
00:33:32,085 --> 00:33:33,405
Speaker 4: But I wasn't a prefect.

728
00:33:35,085 --> 00:33:37,325
Speaker 2: I'm sorry to rag on your wreck, but just look

729
00:33:37,325 --> 00:33:40,885
Speaker 2: at the stars. That's the fun. You get to make

730
00:33:40,925 --> 00:33:43,005
Speaker 2: shit up. Your kids are looking at you, go, you

731
00:33:43,005 --> 00:33:44,445
Speaker 2: know what. That's the bloody pans.

732
00:33:44,485 --> 00:33:47,485
Speaker 3: That's not factually accurate. That makes me upset.

733
00:33:47,965 --> 00:33:50,005
Speaker 2: That's the dog looking down us. That's the chicken that

734
00:33:50,045 --> 00:33:52,125
Speaker 2: died last week. Like that's the fun.

735
00:33:52,685 --> 00:33:55,205
Speaker 1: It's fun telling them that the stars are your chicken

736
00:33:55,245 --> 00:33:56,645
Speaker 1: that died last week.

737
00:33:56,965 --> 00:33:59,645
Speaker 3: I'd much rather it just give me little story.

738
00:33:59,765 --> 00:34:01,965
Speaker 4: It's more in tune with the natural world. She had

739
00:34:02,165 --> 00:34:04,765
Speaker 4: or has chickens. I certainly can't claim that.

740
00:34:04,965 --> 00:34:08,645
Speaker 2: No what's your wreck, mons, I have the world's best

741
00:34:08,725 --> 00:34:10,485
Speaker 2: kids book that you've never heard of.

742
00:34:10,645 --> 00:34:14,325
Speaker 5: Oh it's by Memphox, so you know mem Fox.

743
00:34:14,404 --> 00:34:18,005
Speaker 2: She's written Possum Magic, She's written Where is the Green Sheep?

744
00:34:18,685 --> 00:34:22,444
Speaker 2: It's not those. There's nothing flashy or trendy about this

745
00:34:22,484 --> 00:34:26,004
Speaker 2: book whatsoever. There's no Gruffalo, there's no bear, there's no piranhas,

746
00:34:26,044 --> 00:34:29,364
Speaker 2: there's no celebrity writing it, which is such a trend

747
00:34:29,404 --> 00:34:33,804
Speaker 2: at the moment. Okay, it's called Hunwick's Egg. It's illustrated

748
00:34:33,924 --> 00:34:37,644
Speaker 2: by Pamela Lofts. Don't forget the illustrators. It is the

749
00:34:37,685 --> 00:34:41,964
Speaker 2: most beautiful, melancholy story. I'm not going to tell you

750
00:34:42,004 --> 00:34:43,964
Speaker 2: what it's about. All you need to know is this.

751
00:34:44,805 --> 00:34:47,565
Speaker 2: It's so simple that you can read it in five minutes,

752
00:34:47,604 --> 00:34:50,564
Speaker 2: and it's so profound it'll wreck you for the rest

753
00:34:50,564 --> 00:34:54,044
Speaker 2: of the night. What age like, Oh, it's probably for

754
00:34:54,564 --> 00:34:57,404
Speaker 2: I still read it to my kids, and there's seven so.

755
00:34:57,325 --> 00:34:59,245
Speaker 3: It's like Green Sheep not Gruffalo.

756
00:34:59,884 --> 00:35:04,044
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's lower primary. I guess if I ever did

757
00:35:04,044 --> 00:35:06,684
Speaker 2: a Ted talk, it would be on why this is

758
00:35:06,725 --> 00:35:09,044
Speaker 2: the greatest kid's book of all time? And kids call

759
00:35:09,325 --> 00:35:12,684
Speaker 2: my Roman Empire. I am obsessed with them. I love them.

760
00:35:13,325 --> 00:35:16,084
Speaker 2: It's this It's Handwick's Egg, the greatest kids books of

761
00:35:16,084 --> 00:35:18,764
Speaker 2: all time, and it's somehow slipped under the radar, but

762
00:35:18,805 --> 00:35:21,564
Speaker 2: not anymore. So read it and tell me why I'm right.

763
00:35:21,645 --> 00:35:22,164
Speaker 2: I want to know.

764
00:35:22,604 --> 00:35:25,764
Speaker 1: Mine is the Hey Doodle drawing mat. So I bought

765
00:35:25,765 --> 00:35:28,245
Speaker 1: one of these in like a cute gift shop up

766
00:35:28,285 --> 00:35:30,444
Speaker 1: in the Blue Mountains, but they sell them online and

767
00:35:30,484 --> 00:35:33,404
Speaker 1: they sell them in kid stuff shops as well. It's

768
00:35:33,484 --> 00:35:36,844
Speaker 1: essentially like a drawing mat that's made of silicon, so

769
00:35:36,884 --> 00:35:39,924
Speaker 1: they do all different patterns and all different designs on them,

770
00:35:40,044 --> 00:35:41,684
Speaker 1: and you can roll them up really tiny, like they

771
00:35:41,725 --> 00:35:44,285
Speaker 1: would fit in a tiny little handbag. With the pens

772
00:35:44,285 --> 00:35:46,564
Speaker 1: that come with them. They can color them in and

773
00:35:46,564 --> 00:35:48,085
Speaker 1: then you just wipe it off with a wet white

774
00:35:48,325 --> 00:35:50,804
Speaker 1: and they can start again. So I have a few

775
00:35:50,805 --> 00:35:53,444
Speaker 1: of them. I'm not mum. Like any cafe I go to,

776
00:35:53,564 --> 00:35:56,124
Speaker 1: I take like a canvas bag for a crab a

777
00:35:56,844 --> 00:35:59,964
Speaker 1: I know, bring activities to the cafe. I bring activities.

778
00:36:00,044 --> 00:36:01,924
Speaker 1: But if you bought nothing else, this would be the

779
00:36:01,924 --> 00:36:04,245
Speaker 1: best one to bring because they can't like mess anything

780
00:36:04,245 --> 00:36:06,164
Speaker 1: else up with it because it just draws on the

781
00:36:06,205 --> 00:36:09,125
Speaker 1: Silicon Mats, female owned Aussie business.

782
00:36:09,404 --> 00:36:10,285
Speaker 3: They're really cool.

783
00:36:10,604 --> 00:36:12,644
Speaker 1: They do them for Christmas as well, like they do

784
00:36:12,685 --> 00:36:13,565
Speaker 1: all different designs.

785
00:36:13,564 --> 00:36:14,564
Speaker 3: They're awesome. Yeah.

786
00:36:14,604 --> 00:36:17,364
Speaker 5: My library, my local library's got one, like a big one.

787
00:36:17,524 --> 00:36:21,045
Speaker 4: Mine's that you a parent who brings activities to the cafe?

788
00:36:21,205 --> 00:36:22,524
Speaker 4: I already know the answer to this.

789
00:36:23,004 --> 00:36:27,004
Speaker 2: Not only that, but we have car activities too, cafe activities, Yes,

790
00:36:27,044 --> 00:36:29,245
Speaker 2: I am yep. Do you not have a box in

791
00:36:29,285 --> 00:36:31,685
Speaker 2: your car full of like delightful activities?

792
00:36:32,524 --> 00:36:36,844
Speaker 4: Jacy is our container expert. Yeah, knows all about parenting containers.

793
00:36:36,884 --> 00:36:38,524
Speaker 4: And now I don't have a box in the car.

794
00:36:38,645 --> 00:36:40,404
Speaker 4: I haven't phoned with apps on it.

795
00:36:40,484 --> 00:36:42,884
Speaker 1: I'll make you one and before we go, I also

796
00:36:42,924 --> 00:36:44,964
Speaker 1: wanted to throw in one more reco this week. It's

797
00:36:45,004 --> 00:36:47,325
Speaker 1: a brilliant podcast on the Mum and Mean network called

798
00:36:47,404 --> 00:36:51,484
Speaker 1: She Built That. So it's hosted Yeah, it's really cool.

799
00:36:51,524 --> 00:36:53,684
Speaker 1: It's hosted by Analys Todd and it's created as a

800
00:36:53,725 --> 00:36:56,164
Speaker 1: co listening podcast, So the aim of it is that

801
00:36:56,245 --> 00:36:58,644
Speaker 1: it's entertaining for you and entertaining for the kids. So

802
00:36:58,725 --> 00:37:01,325
Speaker 1: really good one to listen to in the car or

803
00:37:01,364 --> 00:37:03,164
Speaker 1: at night if you're doing a bit of a wine down.

804
00:37:03,165 --> 00:37:05,884
Speaker 1: And don't want screen time. And in each episode they

805
00:37:05,884 --> 00:37:08,805
Speaker 1: speak to an inspiring woman. So there's one that's like

806
00:37:08,884 --> 00:37:11,884
Speaker 1: Catherine Bennell Peg so she was the first ever Australian

807
00:37:11,924 --> 00:37:15,084
Speaker 1: astronaut qualified under the Australian flag. So they talked to

808
00:37:15,084 --> 00:37:18,124
Speaker 1: all these really inspiring women, young women, a lot of

809
00:37:18,125 --> 00:37:20,684
Speaker 1: them are teens, about the kind of future they built

810
00:37:20,685 --> 00:37:23,645
Speaker 1: for themselves and it's just really lovely. Yeah, very cool.

811
00:37:23,685 --> 00:37:25,844
Speaker 1: So it's cat she built that. And what age do

812
00:37:25,844 --> 00:37:28,245
Speaker 1: you think that's I'd say like school age kids, So

813
00:37:28,404 --> 00:37:29,765
Speaker 1: from you know, five on ones.

814
00:37:30,364 --> 00:37:32,045
Speaker 2: That's all we have time for this week on Parenting

815
00:37:32,084 --> 00:37:34,485
Speaker 2: Out Loud and a huge thanks to all the people

816
00:37:34,484 --> 00:37:36,165
Speaker 2: that follow us and that listen every week.

817
00:37:36,364 --> 00:37:37,644
Speaker 5: We love hearing from you.

818
00:37:38,165 --> 00:37:40,644
Speaker 2: I think we are still in the early days of

819
00:37:40,685 --> 00:37:42,844
Speaker 2: this show, so you're all early adopters, right, So if

820
00:37:42,884 --> 00:37:45,044
Speaker 2: you're listening to this show now, you're like on the

821
00:37:45,084 --> 00:37:45,685
Speaker 2: inner circle.

822
00:37:45,765 --> 00:37:47,765
Speaker 5: And this means you should.

823
00:37:47,564 --> 00:37:50,724
Speaker 2: Tell people about it now before someone tells you about it.

824
00:37:50,765 --> 00:37:53,444
Speaker 2: Tell your group chat, tell your book club. Be the

825
00:37:53,524 --> 00:37:56,884
Speaker 2: one who says it first, like I love I love

826
00:37:56,924 --> 00:38:00,645
Speaker 2: discovering stuff first, so you can say, hey, there's this show.

827
00:38:01,044 --> 00:38:04,325
Speaker 2: It's a lot like MoMA mea out loud. It's for parents,

828
00:38:04,444 --> 00:38:06,404
Speaker 2: but also it's for non parents too. There's a lot

829
00:38:06,444 --> 00:38:08,844
Speaker 2: of non parents that listen. They'll say, hey, you're caol.

830
00:38:08,924 --> 00:38:11,685
Speaker 2: What's it called And you'll say, oh, it's called parenting.

831
00:38:11,765 --> 00:38:15,805
Speaker 2: About that, you'll be like, look, it's an out lout

832
00:38:15,884 --> 00:38:18,205
Speaker 2: spin off. They didn't have thirty grand to spend on

833
00:38:18,245 --> 00:38:20,925
Speaker 2: a naming service, so they just did it themselves. Okay,

834
00:38:21,084 --> 00:38:22,844
Speaker 2: and maybe they were tired and they were like, you

835
00:38:22,844 --> 00:38:25,604
Speaker 2: know what, just call it that. It's just good for CEO.

836
00:38:26,524 --> 00:38:28,725
Speaker 2: So that's the inner workings here. A big thanks to

837
00:38:28,765 --> 00:38:32,044
Speaker 2: the team on this show, Tessa Kotovich, Leah Porges, Sashatanic

838
00:38:32,125 --> 00:38:34,124
Speaker 2: and the group ep is Rip de Vine. Have a

839
00:38:34,165 --> 00:38:34,644
Speaker 2: great week.

840
00:38:34,765 --> 00:38:37,325
Speaker 5: We'll be back in this feed next Saturday morning.

841
00:38:37,524 --> 00:38:39,805
Speaker 4: Bye bye,