WEBVTT - Eve Wiley’s Father Was A Serial Sperm Donor… And He’s Not Alone 0:00:11.582 --> 0:00:14.302 You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast. 0:00:15.022 --> 0:00:18.542 Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waders. 0:00:18.702 --> 0:00:22.302 This podcast was recorded on Hey, I'm Jemma Bath, host 0:00:22.302 --> 0:00:24.782 of True Crime Conversations and did you know that the 0:00:24.822 --> 0:00:27.462 team at Mamma Mia is bringing you over one hundred 0:00:27.502 --> 0:00:30.582 hours of the best content from your award winning podcasts 0:00:30.822 --> 0:00:33.822 for the Hot Pod Summer of your Dreams. Well, we 0:00:33.942 --> 0:00:37.462 are here at two Crime Conversations. We've handpicked some of 0:00:37.502 --> 0:00:40.502 the most chilling and thought provoking episodes from our feed, 0:00:41.062 --> 0:00:44.942 including gripping cult stories, powerful interviews with crime victims, and 0:00:45.062 --> 0:00:48.422 in depth accounts from women who have been incarcerated sharing 0:00:48.462 --> 0:00:51.022 the journeys that led them to that place. And that's 0:00:51.142 --> 0:00:54.182 just the beginning. Today, I'm bringing you the story of 0:00:54.262 --> 0:00:57.382 Eve Wiley from No Filter, another amazing podcast on the 0:00:57.462 --> 0:01:01.142 MMA mea network hosted by Mia Friedman. In this episode, 0:01:01.302 --> 0:01:05.062 Miya chats with Eve, who is the child of fertility fraud. 0:01:05.582 --> 0:01:08.862 She talks about how she discovered who her biological father was, 0:01:09.302 --> 0:01:12.502 a discovery that turned her world upside down and transformed 0:01:12.502 --> 0:01:15.182 her into a fearless fighter for the women and families 0:01:15.182 --> 0:01:19.742 who've been harmed by fraudulent and serial sperm donors. If 0:01:19.782 --> 0:01:22.822 you've seen the Netflix series The Man with One Thousand Kids, 0:01:22.822 --> 0:01:26.422 you'll be interested in this conversation. Here's the original episode. 0:01:26.582 --> 0:01:29.822 Take a listen from Mamma Maya. You're listening to No 0:01:29.942 --> 0:01:34.302 Filter and I'm mea Friedman. How many times can you 0:01:34.342 --> 0:01:39.102 find out life changing news about your dad? For Eve Wiley, 0:01:39.342 --> 0:01:42.342 the answer is three times, and it was about three 0:01:42.382 --> 0:01:46.782 different men. Eve Wiley has had three fathers in her lifetime. 0:01:47.382 --> 0:01:49.942 One of them sadly passed away when she was seven. 0:01:50.742 --> 0:01:53.102 One of them is a great guy, but he wasn't 0:01:53.102 --> 0:01:56.182 who she thought he was, And one of them was 0:01:56.222 --> 0:02:00.502 an egomaniacal monster. If you watch the Netflix series The 0:02:00.542 --> 0:02:03.222 Man with a Thousand Kids that told the story of 0:02:03.342 --> 0:02:08.022 cereal sperm donor Jonathan Meyer, you might recognize Eve's name. 0:02:08.382 --> 0:02:11.342 She wasn't impregnated by Jonathan, but she helped try and 0:02:11.342 --> 0:02:14.302 stop him from harming other women, more women, and from 0:02:14.382 --> 0:02:18.342 doing more damage to the hundreds, probably thousands of children 0:02:18.542 --> 0:02:22.262 that he's already conceived. But Jonathan isn't the only guy 0:02:22.502 --> 0:02:25.662 who's trying to superminate the world. There are more serial 0:02:25.702 --> 0:02:29.542 sperm donors like him out there who For whatever reason, 0:02:29.822 --> 0:02:33.662 I obsessed with the idea of impregnating women under false 0:02:33.702 --> 0:02:38.462 pretenses for their own twisted reasons. And nobody knows that 0:02:38.542 --> 0:02:43.582 better than eight. If you were seven when your father died, 0:02:44.302 --> 0:02:46.822 how old were you when you discovered that he wasn't 0:02:46.862 --> 0:02:48.462 actually your biological father. 0:02:49.022 --> 0:02:52.782 I was sixteen years old when I was going through 0:02:52.782 --> 0:02:56.942 my mom's emails. She was a school nurse at my school, 0:02:57.222 --> 0:02:58.982 and so I kind of had this little habit where 0:02:58.982 --> 0:03:00.822 I would go under her emails and I would find 0:03:00.902 --> 0:03:04.662 all the juicy gossip on my code words or if 0:03:04.942 --> 0:03:07.502 you know, maybe a teacher sent an email that like 0:03:07.742 --> 0:03:09.062 I had a bad grade or something. 0:03:09.102 --> 0:03:11.862 You know. It was management for myself, was what it was. 0:03:12.422 --> 0:03:14.742 And that's when I found the emails of my mom 0:03:14.822 --> 0:03:17.022 email in California, car a bank, and I saw my 0:03:17.142 --> 0:03:19.822 birth date on it, and my first thought was, you know, 0:03:19.942 --> 0:03:22.942 from a small town, my grandpa has cows that my 0:03:22.982 --> 0:03:27.102 mom was doing something for like artificial insemination for the bulls. 0:03:27.502 --> 0:03:29.862 That wouldn't have been most people's first thought, but I 0:03:29.982 --> 0:03:31.902 see why that was relevant for you. 0:03:32.142 --> 0:03:34.582 It was very relevant. But as soon as I saw 0:03:34.902 --> 0:03:37.942 my birth date, I knew in that exact moment that 0:03:38.222 --> 0:03:40.702 I was the juicy gossip within the cowort. 0:03:40.822 --> 0:03:42.222 So that's when I found out that I was doing 0:03:42.302 --> 0:03:42.782 or conceived. 0:03:43.062 --> 0:03:48.422 When someone finds something life changing via snooping, there is 0:03:48.422 --> 0:03:51.462 a dilemma because you've got to admit to the snooping 0:03:51.902 --> 0:03:53.822 to be able to confront the person about the thing 0:03:53.822 --> 0:03:56.502 you've discovered. What did you do next? 0:03:56.782 --> 0:03:57.662 It was late at night. 0:03:58.462 --> 0:04:01.622 What I did exactly was I ended up playing sims 0:04:01.662 --> 0:04:03.622 and creating a lot of babies in my sim's game. 0:04:03.742 --> 0:04:05.822 Interesting kind of playing it out there. 0:04:06.302 --> 0:04:07.502 But I went to bed and I woke up the 0:04:07.502 --> 0:04:10.542 next morning and my mom was in the bathroom getting ready, 0:04:10.582 --> 0:04:12.982 and I just barged in and I was like, Mom, I. 0:04:12.942 --> 0:04:14.102 Know that Doug isn't my dad. 0:04:14.502 --> 0:04:16.742 And I just remember her looking at me in the 0:04:16.742 --> 0:04:19.342 reflection of the mirror and just turning around. 0:04:19.342 --> 0:04:21.262 She's like, what are you talking about? And she starts bawling. 0:04:21.822 --> 0:04:24.342 And at the time at this like, you know, it's 0:04:24.382 --> 0:04:28.262 just a naive sixteen year old. I was excited, you know. 0:04:28.302 --> 0:04:32.142 For me, I didn't understand the complexities of donor conception, 0:04:32.702 --> 0:04:34.742 you know, in a social sense, but also in an 0:04:34.782 --> 0:04:37.382 ethical sense. For me, I was like, I still have 0:04:37.822 --> 0:04:40.662 you know a dad, I probably have half siblings, and 0:04:40.702 --> 0:04:43.502 so it was very like, you know, Pollyanna about this, 0:04:44.302 --> 0:04:47.502 and that's how I kind of confronted her. And she 0:04:47.822 --> 0:04:50.302 did a really good job of you know, Eve, you 0:04:50.342 --> 0:04:52.662 were seven when your dad died. They told us not 0:04:52.702 --> 0:04:54.782 to ever tell you and it wasn't going to be important. 0:04:55.422 --> 0:04:57.942 And she brought up this green folder and it was 0:04:58.222 --> 0:05:00.302 every print out from an email that she had ever 0:05:00.342 --> 0:05:04.062 spoken to anyone on like Yahoo messenger boards, not to 0:05:04.182 --> 0:05:08.102 like date myself. You know, it was before Facebook, and 0:05:08.262 --> 0:05:10.302 you know, her medical records and you know, all of 0:05:10.302 --> 0:05:14.382 the things to where she really was creating this breadcrumb 0:05:14.382 --> 0:05:17.182 troell for me. And for me that was really meaningful 0:05:17.262 --> 0:05:19.022 because I can actually see at that point that she 0:05:19.062 --> 0:05:20.262 really was going to tell me. 0:05:20.302 --> 0:05:21.542 She just didn't know how to tell me. 0:05:22.022 --> 0:05:24.422 I imagine there were lots of different feelings. You say you 0:05:24.422 --> 0:05:28.742 were quite Pollyanna about it, but I imagine you're losing Doug, 0:05:29.022 --> 0:05:31.582 who you thought was your father, essentially your stepfather at 0:05:31.622 --> 0:05:35.142 age seven. That must have been pretty traumatic for you 0:05:35.302 --> 0:05:37.302 at that age. Did it feel a little bit like 0:05:37.342 --> 0:05:39.622 a new phase of grief in terms of losing him 0:05:39.622 --> 0:05:40.822 again at sixteen. 0:05:41.262 --> 0:05:44.622 You don't know if at sixteen I could wrap my 0:05:44.662 --> 0:05:48.622 head around that part. You know, there definitely was a 0:05:48.662 --> 0:05:51.182 lot of grief, and there was a level of trauma 0:05:51.742 --> 0:05:55.422 of not having you know, that father figure growing up 0:05:55.662 --> 0:05:59.262 right eventually, But for me, I think it was just 0:05:59.302 --> 0:06:02.582 trying to look at it in more of a positive sense. Now, 0:06:02.702 --> 0:06:06.622 Remember at this time, I was not aware that the 0:06:06.702 --> 0:06:08.422 donor could be like, no, I don't want to have 0:06:08.462 --> 0:06:11.542 contact with you, because in my head was never a thing. 0:06:12.382 --> 0:06:15.262 It wasn't until later where I started to realize that, 0:06:15.462 --> 0:06:18.422 you know, the social constructs of this could be very different. 0:06:19.142 --> 0:06:21.862 With that new information. I think that there was, you know, 0:06:21.902 --> 0:06:24.622 a sense of hesitancy on my part and fear that 0:06:24.702 --> 0:06:27.222 I may be rejected, and so it did kind of 0:06:27.262 --> 0:06:31.662 like snowball into other types of feelings. But that morning, 0:06:31.862 --> 0:06:35.902 in that moment, I was excited, but completely naive and 0:06:35.982 --> 0:06:38.742 completely unaware of what it even meant. 0:06:38.702 --> 0:06:41.022 Because I guess in a way, you lost Doug again, 0:06:41.182 --> 0:06:44.542 but then also your father was alive again because you 0:06:44.582 --> 0:06:47.542 hadn't even met him and he was out there somewhere right. 0:06:47.782 --> 0:06:49.902 What a lot of emotions it is. 0:06:49.822 --> 0:06:53.022 And it is I think it's one of those times too, 0:06:53.142 --> 0:06:55.702 where you know I was having opposite feelings about something. 0:06:56.302 --> 0:06:58.942 You know, I was excited, but to your point, there 0:06:59.022 --> 0:07:02.182 was a level of grief. But then, you know, growing 0:07:02.302 --> 0:07:05.662 up in my nuclear family, I was this blonde hair, 0:07:05.822 --> 0:07:08.542 blue green eyed little girl. My little sister, who was 0:07:08.582 --> 0:07:11.742 fourteen months younger than me, had all of skin complexion, 0:07:12.262 --> 0:07:15.062 dark brown hair, dark brown eyes. I looked like no 0:07:15.062 --> 0:07:18.702 one in my family. There was no familiarity, and so 0:07:18.782 --> 0:07:21.662 I was constantly teased for being adopted. And so there 0:07:21.702 --> 0:07:25.462 is something called the thought unknown, where I always knew 0:07:25.462 --> 0:07:27.902 there was a secret. I just didn't know that I 0:07:28.142 --> 0:07:31.662 was the secret until then. So then being able to 0:07:32.702 --> 0:07:35.822 justify and everything makes sense to have an actual reason 0:07:35.902 --> 0:07:38.902 for it instead of wondering what it was. 0:07:38.942 --> 0:07:42.182 Was your sister the biological child of dog and your mom? 0:07:42.622 --> 0:07:47.102 She was When my parents initially went to their fertility doctor, 0:07:47.622 --> 0:07:50.742 my dad had Verico's fans around his testes, and so 0:07:50.862 --> 0:07:53.222 the recommendation was to get a surgery to get us 0:07:53.262 --> 0:07:55.582 taken care of. So he did that they still aren' 0:07:55.582 --> 0:07:57.862 getting pregnant. So then the next step was to do 0:07:58.062 --> 0:08:01.302 artificial insemination by an anonymous ferm donor. When I was 0:08:01.342 --> 0:08:05.142 born my parents were pregnant four months later, and so 0:08:05.702 --> 0:08:08.422 it could be that maybe there just wasn't enough time 0:08:08.502 --> 0:08:11.062 after the surgery of the reversal of the surge. So 0:08:11.102 --> 0:08:13.902 she is the biological child of my dad, Doug. 0:08:14.262 --> 0:08:18.222 So how did things feel between you and her? Learning 0:08:18.262 --> 0:08:20.982 that you were not actually sis, well, you were half sisters, 0:08:21.022 --> 0:08:22.102 you had different fathers. 0:08:22.662 --> 0:08:24.102 This one caught me by surprise. 0:08:24.422 --> 0:08:27.982 I didn't think that it would impact her, and that 0:08:28.142 --> 0:08:31.982 was just you know, me being shortsighted. But when we 0:08:32.102 --> 0:08:34.582 sat my sister down and we told her, she started 0:08:34.582 --> 0:08:37.462 crying and the only thing she said before she ran 0:08:37.502 --> 0:08:39.542 out of the room was well, least you have a dad, 0:08:40.102 --> 0:08:44.062 And that was it that hurt, because then it was like, yeah, 0:08:44.102 --> 0:08:47.422 now I feel guilt, and wow, this is getting really complicated. 0:08:48.142 --> 0:08:50.702 And you know, there wasn't a book for me to 0:08:50.782 --> 0:08:54.382 go read. There wasn't a blog yet. There wasn't anyone 0:08:54.382 --> 0:08:57.662 that I even knew that was donor conceived except for 0:08:57.862 --> 0:09:00.822 the cows at my grandpa's house, and so I didn't 0:09:00.862 --> 0:09:03.182 have a north star to be able to have some 0:09:03.222 --> 0:09:05.862 sort of expectations of how this should go and how 0:09:05.902 --> 0:09:09.342 this could go. Even when I called California Cryobank. At 0:09:09.342 --> 0:09:12.582 this time, no one had made a connection with their donor, 0:09:12.982 --> 0:09:15.822 so they didn't really have any good information for me 0:09:15.902 --> 0:09:17.942 either on how to proceed with this, so. 0:09:17.862 --> 0:09:19.262 It was very lonely. 0:09:19.542 --> 0:09:20.942 And then it became a thing of what, I don't 0:09:20.982 --> 0:09:22.622 want to talk about this in front of my sister 0:09:22.702 --> 0:09:26.502 because it all make her sad, which only reinforced that loneliness. 0:09:26.822 --> 0:09:29.382 In Australia, there are laws that came in a few 0:09:29.422 --> 0:09:32.702 decades ago. I think that sperm donors could only be 0:09:33.062 --> 0:09:36.262 anonymous up until the age of any donor children that 0:09:36.302 --> 0:09:39.702 had been conceived were eighteen, and then those children had 0:09:39.742 --> 0:09:43.022 a legal right to find them. What are the laws, 0:09:43.142 --> 0:09:46.062 I imagine it probably differs state by state. But did 0:09:46.102 --> 0:09:47.982 you know that you would be able to find your 0:09:48.262 --> 0:09:50.782 the identity of your donor or? Was that tricky? 0:09:51.062 --> 0:09:54.902 It was tricky because it is literally the wild wild 0:09:54.942 --> 0:09:57.622 West here in good old us of A. 0:09:58.342 --> 0:10:01.102 It's entirely left up to the donors in the clinics. 0:10:01.182 --> 0:10:03.942 And so at the time that I was conceived, the 0:10:04.022 --> 0:10:06.742 idea of an open donor versus a closed donor wasn't 0:10:06.782 --> 0:10:10.422 even a topic of conversation. The recommendation in the eighties 0:10:10.782 --> 0:10:14.342 was don't ask, don't tell, like they don't need to know. 0:10:14.582 --> 0:10:18.462 It's not important. You're the parent and that's it. So 0:10:18.782 --> 0:10:22.502 there wasn't a level of education to educate on the 0:10:22.502 --> 0:10:26.502 donor becacive experience, or about how important genetic identity is. 0:10:27.102 --> 0:10:28.902 And then even now I just feel like in the 0:10:28.982 --> 0:10:32.182 last you know, ten years, the sperm banks here in 0:10:32.222 --> 0:10:35.062 clinics are just now starting to realize, you know, maybe 0:10:35.142 --> 0:10:40.062 anonymous donation isn't great because here anonymity breeds fraud when 0:10:40.062 --> 0:10:43.142 you're able to exist under the cloak of anonymity. And 0:10:43.182 --> 0:10:46.302 it wasn't until the you know, invention of commercial dnate 0:10:46.342 --> 0:10:48.942 testing that is really blowing the lid off of those 0:10:49.702 --> 0:10:52.382 So as far as the being the laws here, there's 0:10:52.462 --> 0:10:56.742 just pure recommendations per the American Society of Reproductive Medicine. 0:10:56.862 --> 0:10:59.462 Will you be angradate your mum that she hadn't told 0:10:59.502 --> 0:11:01.422 you and that she had no intention of telling you? 0:11:01.982 --> 0:11:04.222 Yes, and no, I was angry that I was lied 0:11:04.302 --> 0:11:07.862 to you, But when she pulled out the green folder, 0:11:08.382 --> 0:11:11.182 all of that kind of melted away because I could 0:11:11.262 --> 0:11:13.942 see the amount of hours that she poured into this, 0:11:14.182 --> 0:11:17.422 and I believed her when she said I didn't know 0:11:17.462 --> 0:11:19.622 how to tell you. I didn't know when to tell you. 0:11:20.582 --> 0:11:22.782 But I knew that if I did all of this 0:11:22.862 --> 0:11:25.222 research and had all this information, that you would believe 0:11:25.302 --> 0:11:26.862 me that I have been doing this for a very 0:11:26.902 --> 0:11:29.942 long time. And so I think that that very much 0:11:30.102 --> 0:11:33.582 helped bridge the gap between those emotions for me, because 0:11:33.582 --> 0:11:37.062 I could very much empathize with not being able to 0:11:37.062 --> 0:11:39.742 tell a seven year old whose father just passed away, well, 0:11:39.782 --> 0:11:42.182 but that's not like your real dad, because let's go 0:11:42.262 --> 0:11:43.102 talk about. 0:11:42.862 --> 0:11:45.022 You know, how babies are made now. I mean, there's 0:11:45.062 --> 0:11:46.822 no way, like I totally. 0:11:46.502 --> 0:11:48.862 It's a lot of conversation, yeah. 0:11:48.582 --> 0:11:53.302 Being seven, being like I like, just understanding developmentally, you know, 0:11:53.382 --> 0:11:56.622 abstract thinking. And it didn't seem as appropriate at that 0:11:56.622 --> 0:11:59.622 time to explain grief, death and artificial insamination. 0:11:59.942 --> 0:12:02.462 And your mom must have felt protective of Doug and 0:12:02.622 --> 0:12:05.542 his relationship with you, and I can say that I 0:12:05.542 --> 0:12:09.182 can understand why she did it. How did you find 0:12:09.502 --> 0:12:11.382 the identity of your I know, what did you learn 0:12:11.382 --> 0:12:12.262 in that greenfielder? 0:12:12.622 --> 0:12:15.582 So in the green folder I had my mom's medical records, 0:12:15.942 --> 0:12:19.022 and in there it said the date that I was 0:12:19.062 --> 0:12:22.342 conceived with Donor one O six from California Crowd Bank 0:12:22.422 --> 0:12:24.382 and this was in the doctor's handwriting, so that was 0:12:24.462 --> 0:12:25.822 confirmation of my conception. 0:12:26.662 --> 0:12:29.462 And my mom had one sheet of paper and it. 0:12:29.462 --> 0:12:32.782 Had California crow Bank all the donors listed, and it 0:12:32.862 --> 0:12:34.022 was just one line. 0:12:34.582 --> 0:12:37.582 Donor number, physical characteristics. 0:12:37.302 --> 0:12:40.902 Level of education, and interest, like just very limited and 0:12:41.502 --> 0:12:43.822 you could see like not this one, not this one, 0:12:44.022 --> 0:12:47.062 maybe this one, and then she circled one in this one. 0:12:47.462 --> 0:12:50.062 And then there were letters to like Wendy or emails 0:12:50.142 --> 0:12:54.262 like Wendy Kramer Single Mothers by Choice Organization. I think 0:12:54.302 --> 0:12:56.462 at one point there was like maybe a Canadian donor 0:12:56.502 --> 0:13:00.782 Conception network, different professional organizations, and all of it was 0:13:00.822 --> 0:13:03.782 like I'm just trying to get more information. We knew 0:13:03.902 --> 0:13:07.742 his religion was of I Made Butcher, this the Bahai faith, 0:13:07.822 --> 0:13:10.342 and so my mom had all of these like communications 0:13:10.542 --> 0:13:12.822 with that religious organization. 0:13:13.542 --> 0:13:15.422 So that was kind of what was the bulk of 0:13:15.502 --> 0:13:15.942 the folder. 0:13:15.942 --> 0:13:18.302 There were also personal emails of personal stories where she 0:13:18.382 --> 0:13:20.342 was asking, how do I tell my daughter you're an 0:13:20.382 --> 0:13:20.982 adult now? 0:13:21.062 --> 0:13:23.662 What should I do? What should I not do? That 0:13:23.702 --> 0:13:24.302 type of stuff. 0:13:24.622 --> 0:13:27.742 Well, so she'd been trying to track down your donor 0:13:28.182 --> 0:13:29.982 secretly all these years. 0:13:30.262 --> 0:13:33.062 Kind of I think that in her very limited way, 0:13:33.302 --> 0:13:36.222 she was trying to understand, you know, what was the 0:13:36.262 --> 0:13:37.902 network in the landscape. 0:13:38.062 --> 0:13:39.622 Donor Sibling registery was. 0:13:39.702 --> 0:13:42.662 Not quite built yet, but that was the only pretty 0:13:42.742 --> 0:13:45.502 much formal platform where you could put it in your 0:13:45.542 --> 0:13:48.862 donor number and you would hope that the donor would 0:13:48.942 --> 0:13:50.662 register as well as other half siblings. 0:13:50.902 --> 0:13:53.902 So ultimately, when she was choosing her donor, she chose 0:13:54.182 --> 0:13:57.222 number one hundred and six because he had certain qualities. 0:13:57.262 --> 0:14:00.302 He had an interest in film and politics, which she 0:14:00.382 --> 0:14:03.782 thought was similar to her and to her husband. And 0:14:03.822 --> 0:14:06.582 you tracked him down, you said about making contact with 0:14:06.742 --> 0:14:09.182 number one hundred and six, Who did you find? 0:14:09.622 --> 0:14:14.902 I found Steve Shoal and I contacted the craw Bank. 0:14:15.262 --> 0:14:17.782 Their roles at the time were we need the medical 0:14:17.822 --> 0:14:21.182 records from the doctor to confirm, and they also had 0:14:21.222 --> 0:14:24.262 their records that were purchasing records from the doctor, so 0:14:24.342 --> 0:14:28.342 those things matched up, and they sent kind of like 0:14:28.382 --> 0:14:31.142 a questionnaire that was like let's update your medical records, 0:14:31.222 --> 0:14:34.862 not saying like, hey, you have a daughter. And so 0:14:34.942 --> 0:14:37.742 that process took about a year because I think eventually 0:14:38.942 --> 0:14:42.262 Steve Doner one of six, who I also call Dad, 0:14:42.822 --> 0:14:46.102 he was like why do y'all need this? And they're like, oh, 0:14:46.342 --> 0:14:48.782 because you have a daughter, and he was like, I'm 0:14:48.822 --> 0:14:51.302 sorry what you know, he was surprised by it. I 0:14:51.302 --> 0:14:53.182 think in his head he was like, I'm just doing 0:14:53.182 --> 0:14:53.902 this for research. 0:14:54.142 --> 0:14:56.942 Well had he forgotten that he donated spam? Like why 0:14:56.942 --> 0:14:59.182 had he donated for money? 0:14:59.942 --> 0:15:03.582 He was in college, easy way to make a bug, like, you. 0:15:03.502 --> 0:15:06.182 Know, he'd sort of forgotten about it. He was probably stoned. 0:15:06.302 --> 0:15:09.502 It was college, he was high, he. 0:15:09.582 --> 0:15:12.222 Was exactly, he wasn't thinking about it. It's like Lodu's 0:15:12.262 --> 0:15:14.022 best life, Like I'm doing it anyway. 0:15:15.022 --> 0:15:19.462 It's like what, oh, yeah, I remember that vaguely, Yeah, exactly. 0:15:19.662 --> 0:15:21.982 And where was he in his life when he found 0:15:22.022 --> 0:15:23.022 out that you existed. 0:15:23.262 --> 0:15:27.182 So he was a father of three children, and the 0:15:27.222 --> 0:15:30.062 youngest one was pretty small, and the oldest one was 0:15:30.102 --> 0:15:32.702 like maybe in middle school, So you know, he was 0:15:32.702 --> 0:15:35.502 in a phase of life that you know, also was complicated. 0:15:35.542 --> 0:15:38.702 He had every ability to be like, oh, he'll no, 0:15:39.142 --> 0:15:42.702 this is not going to work, and he didn't. And 0:15:43.022 --> 0:15:44.902 I had already written a letter and I had asked 0:15:44.982 --> 0:15:47.662 the sperm bank when he made contact to Ford. That 0:15:47.742 --> 0:15:50.702 letter I had in my mom's and her folder. I 0:15:50.742 --> 0:15:53.102 had read so many stories of people who were just 0:15:53.182 --> 0:15:57.422 outright rejected by their biological parent, and it ended up 0:15:57.462 --> 0:15:58.982 becoming a fear of mine, and I was like, if 0:15:59.022 --> 0:16:00.822 I only have one chance, like I want to be 0:16:00.822 --> 0:16:04.782 able to convey who I am through a letter, and 0:16:04.862 --> 0:16:06.822 if that's all he ever sees and reads. 0:16:06.542 --> 0:16:07.702 Like, maybe that'll be enough. 0:16:08.342 --> 0:16:11.102 And we ended up connecting and then it turned into email. 0:16:11.422 --> 0:16:13.262 I would forward an email to the sperm bank, the 0:16:13.262 --> 0:16:15.422 sperm bank would forward him, and that was it. And 0:16:15.422 --> 0:16:18.342 then we cut them out and then ended up talking 0:16:18.382 --> 0:16:21.102 on the phone just like forever. And then I was 0:16:21.142 --> 0:16:23.662 living in Austin and college at this time, and he 0:16:23.702 --> 0:16:24.422 flew down. 0:16:24.262 --> 0:16:25.462 To meet me for the first time. 0:16:25.782 --> 0:16:26.502 What was that like? 0:16:26.942 --> 0:16:30.182 Oh, I was amazing. I mean I was. He came 0:16:30.222 --> 0:16:32.222 to my apartment and I just I opened the door 0:16:32.262 --> 0:16:35.502 and it was just like a huge hug and just 0:16:35.662 --> 0:16:38.302 we stayed for hours talking in my living room and 0:16:38.342 --> 0:16:41.582 then went to dinner and live music and it was 0:16:41.662 --> 0:16:45.782 just catching up on at this point nineteen years. I 0:16:45.822 --> 0:16:48.782 think because I didn't I didn't have any expectations. I 0:16:48.782 --> 0:16:51.102 didn't know how it was supposed to go. And because 0:16:51.182 --> 0:16:53.502 he is who he is, which is just this like 0:16:53.582 --> 0:16:56.502 amazing open person and I am who I am. 0:16:56.582 --> 0:16:57.902 Like it just worked. 0:16:58.182 --> 0:17:01.142 And it was that weekend, the first weekend of meeting him, 0:17:01.662 --> 0:17:03.742 we ran into a friend, one of my friends on 0:17:03.782 --> 0:17:07.062 the street, and just for social clarity, I was like, oh, 0:17:07.102 --> 0:17:09.142 this is my dad. And at the end of that 0:17:09.302 --> 0:17:11.502 he was like, if you call me that, I'm okay 0:17:11.542 --> 0:17:13.422 with that. And then from that moment on. 0:17:13.742 --> 0:17:16.542 He was dad, And you had three new little siblings. 0:17:16.902 --> 0:17:19.022 I did, but they didn't know yet. They didn't know 0:17:19.102 --> 0:17:20.182 until much later. 0:17:20.462 --> 0:17:23.342 Again, it's a tricky conversation with the little kids. So 0:17:23.622 --> 0:17:26.062 dad was high in college and he jumped off into 0:17:26.062 --> 0:17:29.022 a cop one day for twenty bucks. 0:17:29.222 --> 0:17:34.142 Yeah, but for him, you know, it's also he had 0:17:34.142 --> 0:17:35.942 to tell his wife and then I don't know if 0:17:35.942 --> 0:17:38.302 it ever really came up, like, you know, while they 0:17:38.302 --> 0:17:41.342 were dating, it never really came up. So he had 0:17:41.382 --> 0:17:44.822 to tell her. And I totally get this. You know, 0:17:44.862 --> 0:17:47.502 as a mother of three myself, I would be pretty 0:17:47.502 --> 0:17:52.662 protective too, so I really understood her desire to not 0:17:52.702 --> 0:17:54.782 want to tell the kids right away, and so it 0:17:54.902 --> 0:17:59.302 took multiple years for them to disclose me to them. 0:17:59.902 --> 0:18:01.942 I feel like, this is happens in donor conception a 0:18:01.942 --> 0:18:04.702 lot with parents that disclose when when they're older and 0:18:04.782 --> 0:18:07.262 everybody's nervous and like, oh my gosh, this is going 0:18:07.342 --> 0:18:09.022 to go so bad. They're going to like freak out 0:18:09.022 --> 0:18:11.862 and never talk to us again. And they told the kids, 0:18:12.302 --> 0:18:14.062 and my sister was like, oh my god, I have 0:18:14.102 --> 0:18:17.542 a sister. And then the two boys were like, that's cool. 0:18:17.582 --> 0:18:18.262 What's for dinner? 0:18:18.942 --> 0:18:21.862 And my dad's like, that's it and they're like, yeah, 0:18:21.902 --> 0:18:23.222 I mean, do we get to like meet her or 0:18:23.222 --> 0:18:25.942 something like that sounds cool? And they're like, oh my god. 0:18:26.622 --> 0:18:31.782 It never ceases to delight me how disinterested kids are 0:18:31.822 --> 0:18:33.302 in their parents' lives. 0:18:34.782 --> 0:18:38.902 I know, right, it's all our social construction in projection. 0:18:38.902 --> 0:18:42.982 What was your relationship like with your dad's wife, Like, 0:18:43.142 --> 0:18:45.062 and I imagine you have this experience as well with 0:18:45.102 --> 0:18:48.022 the work that you do meeting a lot of donor kids. 0:18:48.622 --> 0:18:52.342 The relationship with the partner of the donum must be 0:18:52.542 --> 0:18:53.822 often fraud, is it? 0:18:54.142 --> 0:18:56.902 You know? I think in this instance, like I could 0:18:57.022 --> 0:19:00.422 recognize the level of protectiveness and I was really leaning 0:19:00.422 --> 0:19:04.222 on dad to kind of facilitate that relationship because I 0:19:04.222 --> 0:19:06.902 didn't want obviously to push But I think that They 0:19:06.902 --> 0:19:09.422 did a really good job of keeping it separate. I 0:19:09.462 --> 0:19:11.982 didn't really get to have a lot of interaction with 0:19:12.022 --> 0:19:14.822 her until my wedding. I think that really kind of 0:19:14.862 --> 0:19:17.902 changed our relationship. We really didn't have a lot of interface. 0:19:17.982 --> 0:19:21.302 You know, geographically we lived in different parts of the country. 0:19:22.102 --> 0:19:25.102 It was always quite an effort to visit on either 0:19:25.102 --> 0:19:25.902 one of our parts. 0:19:26.542 --> 0:19:30.422 After this short break, Eve makes another unsettling discovery that 0:19:30.462 --> 0:19:39.382 will change her life forever. Your relationship with your dad progressed. 0:19:39.382 --> 0:19:42.262 As you say, he officiated at your wedding. He did, 0:19:43.022 --> 0:19:45.702 so you stayed in touch over the next few years. 0:19:46.422 --> 0:19:49.862 The next installment of this story, and the plot twist 0:19:49.902 --> 0:19:53.102 comes when you go on to have children of your 0:19:53.142 --> 0:19:56.222 own and your son becomes sick. What happened to him? 0:19:56.662 --> 0:19:59.862 So my oldest when he was a baby, he was 0:19:59.942 --> 0:20:03.422 vomiting a lot, and he wasn't eating real food, and 0:20:03.462 --> 0:20:05.222 there were all of these things that all of our 0:20:05.262 --> 0:20:08.182 doctors were like, you know, these allergies, and no one 0:20:08.182 --> 0:20:09.702 could really figure out what it is. 0:20:10.502 --> 0:20:11.262