WEBVTT - Candice Fox Sat In A Cage With A Serial Killer — And Asked Him Why 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:02.440 I get there, and I go through all the levels 0:00:02.480 --> 0:00:04.880 of security, and I get into the prison and it 0:00:04.960 --> 0:00:09.120 says death row above this doorway. And I go in 0:00:09.560 --> 0:00:13.360 and the door clanks shut behind me, and then I'm 0:00:13.400 --> 0:00:15.840 just standing there and no one's telling me what to do. 0:00:17.960 --> 0:00:21.439 Hi. I'm Holly Wainwright and today I'm stepping in for 0:00:21.520 --> 0:00:26.000 Kate Langbrook on No Filter. You're about to meet a 0:00:26.040 --> 0:00:29.280 woman who has climbed into a cage with a serial killer, 0:00:29.840 --> 0:00:33.000 who's traveled on callouts with homicide police and nine to 0:00:33.000 --> 0:00:37.120 eleven survivors, who sat down with the devastated spouses of 0:00:37.240 --> 0:00:40.839 murder victims. Someone who grew up in the chaos of 0:00:40.920 --> 0:00:46.320 financial instability and emotional turmoil in Sydney's western suburbs, and 0:00:46.360 --> 0:00:49.199 who climbed out of there to become one of Australia's 0:00:49.200 --> 0:00:53.720 most successful authors, a crime writer who's collaborated with the 0:00:53.760 --> 0:00:57.360 world's most read author, who's sold books to Hollywood, and 0:00:57.440 --> 0:01:01.440 who's seen her stories on screen. And you're going to 0:01:01.600 --> 0:01:06.080 love her. Candace Fox is a vibe. You might know 0:01:06.200 --> 0:01:08.720 her from one of her best selling crime novels, including 0:01:08.760 --> 0:01:11.600 Crimson Lake and The Chase. But if you don't, and 0:01:11.680 --> 0:01:14.280 you love crime fiction and great stories of all kinds. 0:01:14.600 --> 0:01:18.720 You're going to thank me for this interview because I'm 0:01:18.760 --> 0:01:22.000 giving you the gift of a truly original Australian writer 0:01:22.440 --> 0:01:25.160 with a back catalog you can just jump into with 0:01:25.360 --> 0:01:30.440 both feet, as long as your feet aren't squeamish. Candace 0:01:30.480 --> 0:01:33.440 Fox's latest novel is called Red Belly Crossing, and in 0:01:33.480 --> 0:01:36.920 writing it, she hopes she might solve two cold case 0:01:37.000 --> 0:01:42.280 murders from Sydney's past. Actually she's hoping we will. I'm 0:01:42.319 --> 0:01:48.960 Holly Wainwright and welcome to No Filter, Candicce Fox. Candace Fox, 0:01:49.040 --> 0:01:50.080 Welcome to No Filter. 0:01:50.480 --> 0:01:52.000 Thank you so much for having me. 0:01:52.160 --> 0:01:54.720 I need to start with something I learned about you 0:01:54.760 --> 0:01:58.560 only this morning. You've written twenty one books. That's not 0:01:58.600 --> 0:02:02.760 what I learned. I knew that twenty one books. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:02:02.960 --> 0:02:04.920 you type with two fingers. 0:02:05.240 --> 0:02:05.560 I do. 0:02:05.920 --> 0:02:07.160 It's so embarrassing. 0:02:08.240 --> 0:02:11.400 I'm so embarrassed about it that I thought there's no 0:02:11.600 --> 0:02:14.880 way that I can get over it, the embarrassment, except 0:02:15.000 --> 0:02:17.240 by telling I just told the world. I just said. 0:02:17.960 --> 0:02:23.560 This is me. I'm sitting in a cafe. People bandy 0:02:23.639 --> 0:02:26.000 around the words best selling author a lot, right, Yeah, 0:02:26.040 --> 0:02:28.360 they do, especially in Australia, we sell a couple of 0:02:28.360 --> 0:02:29.079 thousand books and. 0:02:29.000 --> 0:02:31.560 We're like, hi, right. 0:02:31.960 --> 0:02:34.360 But you're the real deal. There is no question about that. 0:02:34.520 --> 0:02:34.840 Thank you. 0:02:35.160 --> 0:02:40.880 Twenty one books, crime novels, standalones, series, collaborations with the 0:02:40.880 --> 0:02:45.679 best selling author in the universe, James Patterson, and you've 0:02:45.680 --> 0:02:48.880 done them all with two fingers. Why your index fingers broken? 0:02:48.960 --> 0:02:50.880 This is my first, very important question. 0:02:51.200 --> 0:02:53.519 I feel like I feel like they must be tough, 0:02:54.040 --> 0:02:56.639 Like when I point at people, they must go whoa, 0:02:57.040 --> 0:02:57.960 put those things away. 0:02:58.520 --> 0:03:00.880 So you're learning, you're learning, learning to. 0:03:00.760 --> 0:03:04.520 Touch type and it's so awkward. But the problem is 0:03:04.600 --> 0:03:07.680 that with the two finger typing, my indix fingers are okay, 0:03:07.720 --> 0:03:10.359 but the rest of my fingers are like inflexed. They're 0:03:10.440 --> 0:03:12.120 up like that and they're getting tired. 0:03:12.200 --> 0:03:15.440 Yeah, no, it's I worry. I worry for your posture. 0:03:15.480 --> 0:03:18.680 I worry for you whatever you call it. Gremlin yet No, 0:03:18.760 --> 0:03:22.880 that's good, Okay, it's not attractive into the more serious stuff. Right, 0:03:24.160 --> 0:03:28.240 you're a crime writer, obviously you write about grizzly things. 0:03:29.800 --> 0:03:34.320 Our audience might know you from Crimson Lake, they might 0:03:34.320 --> 0:03:36.760 know from Hades, they might know from all kinds of things. 0:03:37.960 --> 0:03:40.760 Women often say oh, I can't do crime like it 0:03:41.080 --> 0:03:43.760 keeps me up at night. But we also know that 0:03:43.840 --> 0:03:48.640 women are massive consumers of crime content. Are your is 0:03:48.680 --> 0:03:52.320 your audience mostly female? And are they all twisted individuals? 0:03:53.560 --> 0:03:54.760 Some of them are pretty sick. 0:03:55.360 --> 0:03:59.200 I have the one the moment that I think of 0:03:59.800 --> 0:04:02.920 is when I was auctioning off a character place in 0:04:02.920 --> 0:04:06.440 one of my novels and somebody said, if I win it, 0:04:06.600 --> 0:04:11.240 can I give that character to someone else? I said, yeah, sure. 0:04:11.320 --> 0:04:13.680 She said could that person be murdered? And I'm thinking, oh, 0:04:13.720 --> 0:04:15.480 you're going to put your X in there or something 0:04:15.720 --> 0:04:19.200 brutally murdered. I said, yeah, sure. They're worries. She said, 0:04:19.240 --> 0:04:20.880 can I give it to my eight year old son? 0:04:21.279 --> 0:04:24.599 What? She wanted to give it to her son to 0:04:24.640 --> 0:04:25.800 be brutally murdered. 0:04:26.960 --> 0:04:29.839 It was just like that, that's a special kind of fan. 0:04:31.080 --> 0:04:32.799 They are mostly women. Yeah. 0:04:32.880 --> 0:04:37.200 When I look out across an audience when I'm doing 0:04:37.200 --> 0:04:40.800 a talk, it's all women and there are a few men. 0:04:41.320 --> 0:04:44.120 And the men will come up and get their books signed, 0:04:44.120 --> 0:04:46.600 and they'll always say, oh, my wife dragged me here, 0:04:46.720 --> 0:04:50.279 or my wife made me read your first book, you know. 0:04:50.720 --> 0:04:54.520 And it's only recently that I'm getting men on their own, 0:04:54.920 --> 0:04:57.520 and then young men. Young men come in and they 0:04:57.560 --> 0:04:59.559 sit right at the back, and then they have nothing 0:04:59.600 --> 0:05:02.039 to do with They're scooted out, and I go, you 0:05:02.040 --> 0:05:04.640 can come over here, and they're lurkers. Oh yeah, they look, 0:05:04.800 --> 0:05:05.839 they look. Yeah. 0:05:06.040 --> 0:05:08.880 You write a book every nine months, you just told me, 0:05:09.160 --> 0:05:10.760 which is an astonishing output. 0:05:10.880 --> 0:05:13.400 Oh thank you. I try. I've got a kid now, 0:05:13.480 --> 0:05:15.560 so I'm slower than I used to be. It used 0:05:15.560 --> 0:05:18.279 to be about five to six months. 0:05:18.839 --> 0:05:22.440 And you also research really heavily. Because I know that 0:05:22.480 --> 0:05:26.680 you have met serial killers on death Row, hung out 0:05:26.680 --> 0:05:28.880 with a lot of cops in America as well as 0:05:28.920 --> 0:05:33.479 Australian firefighters. What's the scariest thing you've ever done in 0:05:33.480 --> 0:05:35.320 the name of research of your books? 0:05:35.560 --> 0:05:41.520 It's probably meeting the serial killer. I did not realize 0:05:41.560 --> 0:05:46.040 that that was going to be a physical meeting. I 0:05:46.520 --> 0:05:50.760 paint a picture of I'll paint your picture. I was 0:05:50.800 --> 0:05:54.320 living in la and I saw a documentary on Lawrence Bittaker, 0:05:54.560 --> 0:05:58.159 who was one half of a partnership called the Toolbox Killers, 0:05:58.839 --> 0:06:02.560 who were I know, they were very inventive, a pair 0:06:02.640 --> 0:06:04.960 of men who had nothing better to do than drive 0:06:05.000 --> 0:06:09.000 around the streets of LA, picking up young women and 0:06:09.080 --> 0:06:12.760 girls and driving them into the mountains behind LA and 0:06:12.800 --> 0:06:16.120 doing terrible things to them with the contents of a toolbox, 0:06:16.600 --> 0:06:21.120 and then throwing them off the overpasses there, throwing this 0:06:21.440 --> 0:06:23.880 so person you decided you needed to meet, Well, I 0:06:24.120 --> 0:06:30.240 had questions, and I thought, you know, by that time, 0:06:30.279 --> 0:06:33.680 I had written twelve novels and I'd never met a killer. 0:06:34.080 --> 0:06:36.720 And all I could really do was sit there and 0:06:36.839 --> 0:06:40.960 seorize about what kind of mind would do that? And 0:06:41.200 --> 0:06:43.960 I thought, I'm going to stop theorizing. I'm going to 0:06:43.960 --> 0:06:46.840 stop reading books about it. I'm going to just go 0:06:47.200 --> 0:06:50.400 and say to the guy, what kind of mind would 0:06:50.440 --> 0:06:54.880 do that? Why would you do that? And that's what 0:06:54.960 --> 0:06:59.000 I did. I wrote to him. I wrote a letter, 0:06:59.760 --> 0:07:02.680 and I imagined, you know, at the outset the moral 0:07:02.760 --> 0:07:05.880 questions are starting. I'm saying to myself, you know, do 0:07:05.960 --> 0:07:09.360 I write dear Lawrence, you know, direct Lawrence? You know? 0:07:09.680 --> 0:07:12.600 And if he asked, if he says. 0:07:12.640 --> 0:07:16.080 How polite and deferential to be sort of, yeah, well 0:07:16.640 --> 0:07:17.640 I wasn't very polite. 0:07:17.680 --> 0:07:20.920 In the content of the letter. I said, you appear 0:07:21.000 --> 0:07:24.240 to be one of the most horrendous individuals I've ever 0:07:24.280 --> 0:07:27.640 heard of in my life. You're a monster. What you 0:07:27.760 --> 0:07:34.120 did is vile and disgusting, and I want to hear 0:07:34.400 --> 0:07:37.240 about what caused you to do that. And I had 0:07:37.280 --> 0:07:40.520 all these parameters. I was sort of saying, please, if 0:07:40.560 --> 0:07:42.240 I come there and speak to like, I'd like to 0:07:42.240 --> 0:07:44.400 hear about it, if you're willing to, you know, tell 0:07:44.440 --> 0:07:47.520 me if I go there, please do not try to 0:07:47.560 --> 0:07:50.640 tell me that you didn't do it or that it 0:07:50.680 --> 0:07:54.280 was anyone's fault except yours, because I know that he's 0:07:54.320 --> 0:07:59.480 just psycho passed. Accountability is not their strong suit. And also, 0:07:59.520 --> 0:08:02.280 I said this, no romantic interest here. 0:08:02.080 --> 0:08:04.080 Because we know that lots of women do write to 0:08:04.160 --> 0:08:05.960 serial kills with romantic interest. 0:08:06.160 --> 0:08:07.560 And it's a whole other thing. 0:08:07.640 --> 0:08:08.520 It's a whole other thing. 0:08:08.640 --> 0:08:10.880 And I would find out later that he was trying 0:08:10.920 --> 0:08:14.160 to recruit me as girlfriend number five because he already 0:08:14.200 --> 0:08:21.160 had four. And so he said, yeah, come, and so 0:08:21.280 --> 0:08:26.120 I went, and I received a visitors handbook, which was 0:08:26.160 --> 0:08:28.760 a single a four sheet of paper with a whole 0:08:28.760 --> 0:08:31.400 bunch of information about you know, what you're supposed to 0:08:31.440 --> 0:08:34.200 wear and where you're supposed to park, and what you 0:08:34.240 --> 0:08:36.920 can bring in and that kind of thing. No information 0:08:37.480 --> 0:08:42.360 at all about the physical practicality of the actual meeting. 0:08:42.720 --> 0:08:45.280 So I just assumed that it was going to be 0:08:45.600 --> 0:08:48.959 like a piece of glass on the movie. Yeah, you 0:08:49.040 --> 0:08:51.000 see on the movies with the phone, you know, because this. 0:08:51.080 --> 0:08:53.120 Is a violent serial killer. 0:08:54.080 --> 0:08:56.520 And I get there, and I go through all the 0:08:56.600 --> 0:08:59.240 levels of security and I get into the prison and 0:08:59.280 --> 0:09:02.800 it says death throw, you know, above this doorway. And 0:09:02.840 --> 0:09:06.960 I go in and the door clanks shut behind me, 0:09:07.360 --> 0:09:09.720 and then I'm just standing there and no one's telling 0:09:09.760 --> 0:09:11.600 me what to do. And I wandered over to this 0:09:11.720 --> 0:09:15.240 guard and I said, I don't know where I'm supposed 0:09:15.240 --> 0:09:17.280 to be. Sorry, I don't know which window is mine, 0:09:17.280 --> 0:09:20.160 because they had all the windows with the phones. I said, 0:09:20.160 --> 0:09:22.880 I'm here to see Lawrence Bittaker, the serial killer. And 0:09:22.960 --> 0:09:24.400 he said, oh, no, you're going to be in that 0:09:24.520 --> 0:09:27.920 cage over there. And he pointed to this cage, which 0:09:28.000 --> 0:09:32.880 was a flawed to ceiling, you know, whire mesh all 0:09:32.920 --> 0:09:36.000 around like a shark cage with buletproof glass on the inside. 0:09:36.040 --> 0:09:38.200 And I'm thinking, oh, okay, I go in there to 0:09:38.280 --> 0:09:41.600 protect me from him. And I said, well, where is 0:09:41.640 --> 0:09:45.040 he going to be? And the guard said no. The 0:09:45.080 --> 0:09:47.720 guard said, he'll be in there, and I said, but 0:09:47.840 --> 0:09:48.199 I'll be. 0:09:48.200 --> 0:09:50.120 In there, so getting in the cage with the show. 0:09:50.360 --> 0:09:53.560 Yeah, And he's like, I said, at the same wait, 0:09:53.640 --> 0:09:55.920 at the same time, and he said, yes, at the 0:09:55.920 --> 0:09:58.320 same time. You and hear me in there. And I 0:09:58.360 --> 0:10:00.400 looked and there were two plastic chairs, and I'm going, 0:10:00.440 --> 0:10:06.160 oh my god, and so and and I just sort 0:10:06.200 --> 0:10:09.400 of something came over me, and I just went with it, 0:10:09.640 --> 0:10:12.679 you know, because I didn't want to be rude. And 0:10:12.840 --> 0:10:16.720 later I thought to myself, how many women have gotten 0:10:16.760 --> 0:10:21.160 themselves into an uncomfortable situation with this very man, not 0:10:21.360 --> 0:10:25.200 knowing what he was, but who went with it because 0:10:25.240 --> 0:10:26.360 they didn't want to be rude? 0:10:26.520 --> 0:10:26.800 Rude? 0:10:27.080 --> 0:10:29.520 Yeah, And then I and so I got in the 0:10:29.559 --> 0:10:30.040 cage with. 0:10:30.040 --> 0:10:30.760 Him, and. 0:10:32.160 --> 0:10:36.360 He was he was cuffed because the guards there they 0:10:36.400 --> 0:10:40.840 don't expose themselves to the inmates for any at any reason, 0:10:41.120 --> 0:10:44.360 you know, like while they're uncuffed. They're like, we don't, 0:10:44.440 --> 0:10:46.720 we don't be around them while they're uncuffed. If you 0:10:46.760 --> 0:10:48.839 want to do that, you go right ahead. So they 0:10:48.840 --> 0:10:51.200 put him in the cage, and they put me in 0:10:51.240 --> 0:10:53.839 the cage, and they shut the door and they pad 0:10:53.880 --> 0:10:56.520 locked it. So we're locked in and then he puts 0:10:56.559 --> 0:10:59.079 his wrists through and they uncuff him. Oh my god, 0:10:59.200 --> 0:11:01.839 I know. And then they and then and then the 0:11:02.160 --> 0:11:05.079 guards went up the corridor and they walked away and 0:11:05.080 --> 0:11:09.000 they were out of sight, and I was like, well, 0:11:09.040 --> 0:11:10.960 here we are here, we are there. 0:11:11.000 --> 0:11:14.160 I have many questions about that. How did you feel 0:11:14.320 --> 0:11:18.679 like were you? And also was he I've heard you 0:11:18.679 --> 0:11:22.320 say before that you do believe that some people are bad, 0:11:22.600 --> 0:11:27.120 like just a bad inside. Yeah, did you feel from him? 0:11:27.200 --> 0:11:27.280 Like? 0:11:27.400 --> 0:11:30.320 What did you feel from him? Obviously you knew what 0:11:30.440 --> 0:11:33.760 he'd done, But did he give off serial killer? 0:11:34.520 --> 0:11:39.559 No, there's two questions there. How did I feel my 0:11:40.000 --> 0:11:43.040 whole My whole body went hot and tense, and I 0:11:43.200 --> 0:11:46.559 thought I might have to fight a man here. 0:11:47.320 --> 0:11:50.679 So I my first my brain. 0:11:50.559 --> 0:11:53.160 Was flooded with you know, if he comes at you, 0:11:53.320 --> 0:11:55.840 just and the thing that I could see in my 0:11:56.000 --> 0:11:56.679 brain the. 0:11:56.640 --> 0:12:00.319 Instruction was scratch his eyes out, like I was. 0:12:00.320 --> 0:12:03.280 Just seeing myself going ah, And I thought, that's not what. 0:12:03.200 --> 0:12:03.719 You should do. 0:12:03.960 --> 0:12:06.160 And I've had self defense training. I know how to 0:12:06.200 --> 0:12:10.760 punch and that kind of thing. Don't scratch him anyway? Yeah, 0:12:10.920 --> 0:12:14.720 and no, he did not give off serial killer vibes. 0:12:14.800 --> 0:12:18.640 He was not yo Hannibal Lecter. He was very polite 0:12:18.840 --> 0:12:24.520 and nice and rational, and you know, he could cry 0:12:24.679 --> 0:12:29.880 on command, but then the crying would just stop right, 0:12:30.160 --> 0:12:31.800 you know, and there was nothing there, and there was 0:12:31.800 --> 0:12:37.840 nothing there, and I had to look very carefully for 0:12:38.000 --> 0:12:41.920 those moments where the mask dropped and I'd see it 0:12:42.000 --> 0:12:43.600 and it would just go down for a second and 0:12:43.640 --> 0:12:46.520 I'd go there. It is like I was asking about 0:12:46.600 --> 0:12:50.280 him about his victims, and I was saying, what was 0:12:50.320 --> 0:12:53.080 your plan exactly, you know, and he said, oh, by 0:12:53.120 --> 0:12:56.200 the time we got to number five, what was her name? 0:12:56.520 --> 0:12:59.000 And I said oh, and I said her name and 0:12:59.040 --> 0:13:01.800 he said, oh whatever he name was like with the 0:13:01.880 --> 0:13:06.960 hand flicked like that and he flicked this person away. 0:13:08.679 --> 0:13:11.680 You've only you've been in prison for thirty eight years 0:13:11.679 --> 0:13:14.760 for the murder of five women. There were clearly more 0:13:14.840 --> 0:13:17.480 than that, but he was only convicted of the five women. 0:13:18.280 --> 0:13:21.400 Could you take ten minutes to memorize their names? But 0:13:21.440 --> 0:13:25.000 the name didn't get in there, It didn't lodge in there. 0:13:25.320 --> 0:13:29.000 And that made me go, whoa. 0:13:28.320 --> 0:13:33.520 Like, this person does not see other people as people. 0:13:33.640 --> 0:13:35.920 They don't even have names to him. 0:13:36.240 --> 0:13:40.160 You know, that's so interesting. And what I get from you. 0:13:40.320 --> 0:13:44.840 And we'll talk later about your latest book and the 0:13:44.880 --> 0:13:47.240 inspiration for that, the deep empathy you have for the 0:13:47.320 --> 0:13:50.880 victims of those crimes. But the victims do live and 0:13:50.920 --> 0:13:54.600 breathe in your books. Thank you, even though that your 0:13:54.600 --> 0:13:58.720 books are grizzly like that and dark. Do you sometimes 0:13:58.760 --> 0:14:00.800 think that we were talking about how women do love 0:14:00.880 --> 0:14:05.280 true crime and grim things and writing to serial killers. 0:14:05.800 --> 0:14:08.439 Do you ever worry ethically that our obsession with true 0:14:08.440 --> 0:14:12.040 crime is making us kind of focus on the wrong thing, 0:14:12.120 --> 0:14:16.000 like focus on these charismatic, crazy guys and not on 0:14:16.040 --> 0:14:16.720 what's lost. 0:14:17.800 --> 0:14:23.680 I think the reason we're so focused on the perpetrator 0:14:24.400 --> 0:14:30.720 is because we're trying to protect ourselves from that. And 0:14:30.880 --> 0:14:36.600 these women are often incredibly relatable. You know, they're gentle 0:14:37.000 --> 0:14:40.880 and they're lovely, and they're presented in true crime documentary 0:14:41.200 --> 0:14:44.120 documentaries as being lovely, you know, the cliche they say, Oh, 0:14:44.120 --> 0:14:47.400 she lit up a room. So I think we feel 0:14:47.480 --> 0:14:51.640 like we understand those women, So the curiosity isn't there. 0:14:52.120 --> 0:14:54.880 What we're trying to figure out is how do I 0:14:55.040 --> 0:15:00.240 spot that predator when he's sleeping in the bed beside 0:15:01.040 --> 0:15:04.760 you know? How do I and how can I protect 0:15:05.200 --> 0:15:09.280 not only myself, but my children and the women around me. 0:15:09.880 --> 0:15:14.480 And we're looking, we're becoming experts in the red flags, 0:15:15.160 --> 0:15:17.360 you know, so we can warn each other. And I 0:15:17.400 --> 0:15:22.400 think it's just your brain being protective. It's a survival 0:15:22.520 --> 0:15:23.720 instinct type thing. 0:15:24.320 --> 0:15:27.920 Do you spending a lot of time in these dark places? 0:15:29.040 --> 0:15:31.080 Does it make I always think this about crime writers 0:15:31.120 --> 0:15:34.600 and true crime journalists too. Does it make you more 0:15:34.680 --> 0:15:36.800 or less afraid out in the world because you know 0:15:37.000 --> 0:15:38.840 all the awful things? Yeah? 0:15:38.920 --> 0:15:46.280 Yeah, yeah, in certain circumstances, it does make me more afraid. 0:15:46.640 --> 0:15:52.040 It makes me more afraid for my daughter. She's so small, 0:15:52.640 --> 0:15:57.680 she's six, she's six years old, and the world is 0:15:57.800 --> 0:16:02.000 so big, and it's my job protect her and to 0:16:02.120 --> 0:16:06.640 teach her how to protect herself. And I've gotten myself 0:16:06.640 --> 0:16:10.520 into sticky situations. And I see you get into cateresself. 0:16:10.640 --> 0:16:13.240 Yes, willingly did. 0:16:13.720 --> 0:16:15.200 But you know what I mean, Like you're on a 0:16:15.280 --> 0:16:18.640 date with something someone and they're walking you to your 0:16:18.640 --> 0:16:21.800 car and you think, oh, if this goes wrong, and 0:16:21.840 --> 0:16:26.160 then luckily it didn't, but you know, and it has, 0:16:26.520 --> 0:16:30.160 you know, And I've gotten myself into abusive relationships, and 0:16:30.200 --> 0:16:34.320 I've gotten myself into this predicament and that predicament, and 0:16:34.440 --> 0:16:39.320 I think there's no scenario in which Violet will not 0:16:39.480 --> 0:16:43.840 get herself into some kind of situation. Statistically, if she 0:16:43.920 --> 0:16:46.320 goes out in the world as a woman and lives 0:16:46.360 --> 0:16:50.600 a normal life, will I have taught her what she 0:16:50.720 --> 0:16:54.160 needs to do to survive And will that be enough? 0:16:54.560 --> 0:16:58.040 Because sometimes it's not enough. You know. We're going to 0:16:58.120 --> 0:17:03.080 talk about later about the women that inspired the true crime, 0:17:03.160 --> 0:17:06.680 you know, and one of them just fought for her life. 0:17:06.920 --> 0:17:10.080 She threw her whole body at it, and it wasn't enough, 0:17:10.840 --> 0:17:13.240 you know. And so yeah, it is terrifying. 0:17:13.320 --> 0:17:15.800 But what I do is I. 0:17:18.200 --> 0:17:25.560 Balance it with extremely light things like the animal rescue. 0:17:25.760 --> 0:17:27.680 Yeah, I was going to say, so we're going to 0:17:28.000 --> 0:17:30.000 in a second, I'm going to get a bit into 0:17:30.440 --> 0:17:33.720 what led you to be a crime writer. But your 0:17:33.840 --> 0:17:37.080 life now, I'd love you to paint a little picture, because, 0:17:37.520 --> 0:17:41.960 as we discussed, you are an incredibly successful author, writing 0:17:43.160 --> 0:17:46.320 a lot of books, living in Sydney, and your hobby 0:17:47.320 --> 0:17:50.080 which I encourage everybody listening to this to go and 0:17:50.080 --> 0:17:55.160 follow Candice on Instagram because she documents this is rescuing animals, 0:17:55.160 --> 0:17:58.239 but specifically birds, Yes, and at any time. You've just 0:17:58.280 --> 0:18:01.000 got all these random birds and you go and pull 0:18:01.000 --> 0:18:05.880 them out of drains and rescue them from like how why? 0:18:05.960 --> 0:18:08.199 And birds are not even the most sympathetic of the 0:18:08.240 --> 0:18:12.120 animal They're not like fluffy and not well. 0:18:12.160 --> 0:18:17.520 I started, I was volunteering for an organization and it 0:18:17.560 --> 0:18:18.840 was all native animals. 0:18:18.960 --> 0:18:20.880 Is that wires? Yeah, yes, well. 0:18:20.840 --> 0:18:25.920 Yeah, but they're bite and scratchy and terrified. And I 0:18:26.440 --> 0:18:31.239 every now and then was encountering someone's pet chicken and 0:18:31.280 --> 0:18:34.880 someone's pet duck and they're not you know, bite or scratchy, 0:18:35.080 --> 0:18:37.920 and so Violet really. 0:18:37.680 --> 0:18:39.520 Lit up to your daughter. Yeah. 0:18:39.560 --> 0:18:44.840 So we've been on over six hundred animal rescues together, 0:18:45.119 --> 0:18:48.119 her and I. It's probably something like six fifty. 0:18:48.160 --> 0:18:52.960 Now this is the plot for a yeah, bird rescuing. 0:18:54.280 --> 0:18:57.879 I really premise I've I've really used it as a 0:18:57.880 --> 0:19:00.440 way to build her self esteem as well. Like I, 0:19:01.400 --> 0:19:03.440 you know, the two of us are crouching trying to 0:19:03.480 --> 0:19:05.480 catch this animal, and I'm like, what do you think? 0:19:05.760 --> 0:19:08.200 What should we do? You know, Oh, you've got an idea, 0:19:08.240 --> 0:19:11.160 haven't you. You know? And I turn up to places 0:19:11.160 --> 0:19:13.080 and I said, I say, I hope you don't mind. 0:19:13.080 --> 0:19:16.040 I've brought my supervisor and then she comes up. She's 0:19:16.040 --> 0:19:18.000 a little thing. You know, we've been doing it since 0:19:18.000 --> 0:19:21.720 she was two, Yeah, but she just lit up about 0:19:21.840 --> 0:19:25.399 chickens and ducks. So I started specializing in chickens and ducks. 0:19:25.560 --> 0:19:30.640 And we had something happened to us recently that everyone 0:19:30.720 --> 0:19:34.920 calls on Instagram, started calling the ducking, which was when 0:19:36.000 --> 0:19:40.320 somebody Sometimes the things come through a rescue line and 0:19:40.440 --> 0:19:43.320 sometimes people just approach me. Someone just approached me on 0:19:43.359 --> 0:19:45.879 social media and he said, I see you rescue ducks. 0:19:46.600 --> 0:19:51.399 I am in a situation where I have acquired thirty 0:19:51.440 --> 0:19:56.040 four thirty seven eggs that I did not know had 0:19:56.160 --> 0:19:58.439 ducks in them among us. 0:19:58.440 --> 0:20:01.000 Haven't acquiet thirty seven mistake. 0:20:01.240 --> 0:20:05.080 It was a really dodgy story, but I didn't push 0:20:05.560 --> 0:20:07.840 because it sounded so dodgy. I thought, if I push 0:20:07.920 --> 0:20:09.280 them too hard, I'm not going to be able to 0:20:09.280 --> 0:20:13.159 help these. And he sent me this picture of these ducklings, 0:20:13.200 --> 0:20:15.720 newly hatched ducklings at the bottom of this cardboard box, 0:20:15.760 --> 0:20:18.080 and they're all wet and limp and cold and dying. 0:20:18.520 --> 0:20:21.240 And I was like, I said to him, when can 0:20:21.280 --> 0:20:22.879 you bring those to me? Because I can't get to 0:20:22.920 --> 0:20:25.760 you right now. I've got Violet and dinner and bed 0:20:25.800 --> 0:20:28.040 and bas and he said, oh, I can bring them 0:20:28.040 --> 0:20:29.800 in two hours. I said, they'll be dead by then. 0:20:29.880 --> 0:20:32.000 I'm sending an uber. So I sent an uber. 0:20:34.119 --> 0:20:36.159 Yeah, I sent to the uber driver. It's going to 0:20:36.200 --> 0:20:37.560 be a big box full. 0:20:37.440 --> 0:20:42.560 Of eggs and jack dying, hashing Jesus. So I brought 0:20:42.560 --> 0:20:44.840 them wall to my house and then and then it 0:20:44.960 --> 0:20:48.200 was just chaos, and Violet was just we were running. 0:20:48.280 --> 0:20:50.440 We're running around because they. 0:20:50.359 --> 0:20:53.600 Were hatching and they were getting dry and they were 0:20:53.640 --> 0:20:56.160 needing to get fed, and some of them needed medical 0:20:56.200 --> 0:20:59.679 treatment and stuff. And it was chaos. And I was 0:20:59.680 --> 0:21:02.000 filmed it all for social media and people like, what's 0:21:02.040 --> 0:21:04.520 going on? Is the duck apocalypse and it's all happening, 0:21:04.520 --> 0:21:07.560 and there's one woman's garage, you know, and it's been 0:21:07.640 --> 0:21:09.240 it's been loads of fun. 0:21:09.920 --> 0:21:12.720 How many how many ducks made it through the duckning 0:21:13.560 --> 0:21:15.480 thirty two but some of. 0:21:15.440 --> 0:21:19.080 Them the eggs were duds. Yeah, And and they were 0:21:19.119 --> 0:21:21.959 just a mass then, like a big yellow mass that 0:21:22.119 --> 0:21:24.640 was that I put food down. They all come in 0:21:24.680 --> 0:21:26.960 like piranhas and they go no, no, no no no, and 0:21:26.960 --> 0:21:29.399 then they go again and they're washing up against the 0:21:29.400 --> 0:21:30.440 walls of the tub. 0:21:30.480 --> 0:21:33.320 And this sounds like every six year old dream to 0:21:33.359 --> 0:21:37.160 have an entire ocean of fluffy yellow dungeons in their house. 0:21:37.560 --> 0:21:39.480 Just swirl it around, you know. 0:21:39.640 --> 0:21:42.800 But through the animal rescue, she's got to do amazing 0:21:42.880 --> 0:21:45.960 stuff like chuck her on a boat and we go 0:21:46.000 --> 0:21:48.840 out and we rescue a sea eagle, or we've got 0:21:48.840 --> 0:21:51.320 some cops. The cops have shut down the road for 0:21:51.400 --> 0:21:53.560 us to get, you know, a possum that's up under 0:21:53.600 --> 0:21:57.960 a highway overpass, and like all these she's she's walked 0:21:58.000 --> 0:22:03.359 into mansions on Sydney Harbor and we're right on the 0:22:03.400 --> 0:22:05.920 water in Sydney Harbor and someone's got a private dock 0:22:06.000 --> 0:22:09.080 and there's this heroin that has like fishing line around 0:22:09.119 --> 0:22:12.040 it and all sorts. 0:22:11.760 --> 0:22:14.439 Of and it balances out some of the greenness of 0:22:14.520 --> 0:22:17.280 the of the murders. Yeah, the murders. 0:22:17.720 --> 0:22:20.000 One day, I'll get her into the murders as well, 0:22:20.280 --> 0:22:22.919 and we'll be visiting body dumping sites. 0:22:24.359 --> 0:22:27.879