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Speaker 1: Truechrime Conversations acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters

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Speaker 1: that this podcast was recorded on. Hey Claire here and

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Speaker 1: welcome back to True Crime Conversations. This week, we're revisiting

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Speaker 1: the heartbreaking case of Carly Pierce Stevenson and her two

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Speaker 1: year old daughter, Candalise. When Candlease was reported missing, police

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Speaker 1: couldn't understand why her mother hadn't come forward. But what

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Speaker 1: they didn't know at the time was that Carly's body

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Speaker 1: had actually already been found years earlier in Blangalo State Forest.

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Speaker 1: Author and journalist aver Benny Morrison joins Jesse to walk

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Speaker 1: us through how investigators finally connected the two and solved

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Speaker 1: one of Australia's most haunting crimes, now known as the

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Speaker 1: Lost Girl's Case. This is the last episode from our

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Speaker 1: archives for now. If you've been enjoying these re releases

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Speaker 1: and want to hear more, just let us know a

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Speaker 1: quick warning.

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Speaker 2: This episode contains discussions of sexual assault, child abuse, and

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Speaker 2: the recounting of traumatic events. Listener discretion, Is it Guysed?

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Speaker 2: In July twenty fifteen, the bones of two year old

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Speaker 2: Candilease Pierce were found in a suitcase by the side

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Speaker 2: of a dusty highway two hours west of Adelaide. Alongside

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Speaker 2: her remains, investigators found a mud covered Dora the Explorer

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Speaker 2: T shirt, a mangled shoe, and a handcrafted quilt. The

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Speaker 2: question on everyone's lips was where is this little girl's

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Speaker 2: mother and how will she react when she hears that

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Speaker 2: her daughter was murdered? But Carl Pierce Stephenson wouldn't ever

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Speaker 2: know the tree because her body had been found five

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Speaker 2: years earlier in Bilangelo State Forest. So how did a

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Speaker 2: little girl and her mother end up dead five years apart?

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Speaker 2: I'm Jesse stephens In. In this episode of True Crime Conversations.

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Speaker 2: I'm speaking with author and journalist Ava Benny Morrison about

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Speaker 2: the case of the Lost Girls, Carl Pierce Stevenson and

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Speaker 2: her daughter Candales. So I want to start with an

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Speaker 2: August morning in twenty ten when a bunch of sort

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Speaker 2: of dirt bike riders visited Bilangalo State Forest. Can you

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Speaker 2: tell me what happened?

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Speaker 3: So this was a winter morning in August twenty ten.

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Speaker 3: There was a group of guys from Sydney that had

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Speaker 3: driven down to the Blangalow State Forest to go dirt

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Speaker 3: bike riding. It's quite popular with dirt bike riding, but

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Speaker 3: most people know it for its association with Avian Malatt,

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Speaker 3: the serial killer who murdered backpackers in the forest they

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Speaker 3: went through. We spend the morning riding through all the

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Speaker 3: fire trails, and one of them ended up coming across

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Speaker 3: a woman's skeleton that was lying next to a lock.

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Speaker 3: And at first he only came across it because he

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Speaker 3: took a wrong turn, and he ended up finding a

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Speaker 3: leg bone, but he wasn't quite sure whether it was

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Speaker 3: human or animal, and I think he chose to believe

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Speaker 3: initially that it belonged to a kangaroo. So they've left

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Speaker 3: it and they've gone back to where their cars were,

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Speaker 3: had some lunch, and it was playing on his mind

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Speaker 3: and he spoke to others in the group about it,

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Speaker 3: and his brother had actually read a book about Ivan Malatt.

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Speaker 3: He was thinking about the way Ivan had discarded his

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Speaker 3: victim's bodies next to logs and whatnot, So that made

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Speaker 3: him go back and have another look. And it was

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Speaker 3: the second time that they went back that they found

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Speaker 3: a skull, a clump of hair, some rib bones, and

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Speaker 3: a few other things, and that confirmed to them that

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Speaker 3: it was human. So they called the police.

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Speaker 4: There are fears of another murder victim in the notorious

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Speaker 4: Bilanglo State Forest, with police saying bones found there are

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Speaker 4: almost certainly human.

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Speaker 5: It's certainly a fine that is more lucky good management.

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Speaker 6: The human remains, which include a skull and fema, were

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Speaker 6: found by a trailbike rider yesterday afternoon. He immediately called police.

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Speaker 7: Initially, we weren't sure until we walked a bit further

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Speaker 7: into the scrub and behind a log, we actually found

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Speaker 7: a skull.

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Speaker 2: And when the police arrived, what did they find?

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Speaker 3: They drove out later that afternoon and it was clear

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Speaker 3: to them initially that it was a human skeleton. I

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Speaker 3: guess the circumstances it was found in. It was in

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Speaker 3: a pretty isolated part of the forest. It was on

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Speaker 3: the edge of this forest, which is huge in the

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Speaker 3: southern Pocket, but it was next to a log. She'd

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Speaker 3: obviously been there for a very long time to the

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Speaker 3: point where she was just a skeleton, so automatically they

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Speaker 3: suspected that something suspicious had gone on, and it wasn't

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Speaker 3: n ttil the next day that the detectives came in

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Speaker 3: crime scene dies as well, and they spent a few

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Speaker 3: days going through the crime scene and They also found

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Speaker 3: a woman's T shirt, small earring and a single sock

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Speaker 3: as well, so they assumed that they were dealing with

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Speaker 3: a female skeleton.

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Speaker 2: Did they have any sense of the age?

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Speaker 3: That wasn't until they went and had a autopsy done,

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Speaker 3: and it was a forensic pathologist that determined she was

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Speaker 3: probably between thirteen and twenty five years old and that

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Speaker 3: she had been in the forest for anywhere between a

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Speaker 3: year to up to ten years. That also helped them

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Speaker 3: rule out Ava Malatt because he would have been in

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Speaker 3: jail by the time this woman was killed.

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Speaker 2: Five years later, another body was then discovered in South Australia.

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Speaker 2: Can you tell us about that?

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Speaker 3: In twenty fifteen, in July in a completely different state,

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Speaker 3: eleven hundred klmeters away in South Australia, a group of

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Speaker 3: guys in a car driving to Adelaide through the Murraymalley

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Speaker 3: region pulled over. One of them needed to go to

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Speaker 3: the bathroom. And the spot that they pulled over was

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Speaker 3: very unremarkable. It's just a random location on the side

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Speaker 3: of a straight, relatively empty highway in the country and

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Speaker 3: they pulled over and he's gone over to the bush

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Speaker 3: and he spotted a suitcase lying on the ground. There

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Speaker 3: were a number of items that were in that suitcase,

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Speaker 3: clothing and a blanket and a few other things that

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Speaker 3: were all over the ground, all over the dirt, and

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Speaker 3: he's gone over to have a closer look, given the

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Speaker 3: suitcase a bit of a shake and realized that there

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Speaker 3: was a small jawbone amongst all the clothing as well.

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Speaker 3: So that freaked him out, as you could imagine, He's

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Speaker 3: jumped back in the car, and then when he's got

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Speaker 3: two outla the next day, he's called the police. These

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Speaker 3: cases were treated completely separately, but they were immediately similar

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Speaker 3: in that police couldn't figure out who they were for years.

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Speaker 4: Haunting images have been released by major crime detectives investigating

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Speaker 4: the violent murder of a child whose remains were found

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Speaker 4: dumped in a suitcase in the Murray Malley Police releasing

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Speaker 4: pictures of the bag and girl's clothes in the hope

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Speaker 4: it'll trigger someone's memory.

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Speaker 2: And what were the other objects that were in that

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Speaker 2: suit case?

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Speaker 3: There was about fifty odd objects in there, mainly children's clothing,

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Speaker 3: a few pieces of adults clothing and a very distinctive

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Speaker 3: hand stitch quilt, and this was key to the investigation

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Speaker 3: because a lot of the other stuff in the suitcase

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Speaker 3: was mass produced, so a child's too duo from cottona on.

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Speaker 3: Some stuff you can get a kmart, some Holden branded

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Speaker 3: silk shorts, things like that. But this blanket was very unique.

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Speaker 3: You could tell it was handstitched, and it looked like

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Speaker 3: something that someone would give to a young child or

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Speaker 3: an expectant mother.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, well, I can just explain that that quilt to

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Speaker 8: the quilt is ninety centimeters by ninety centimeters, it's surrounded

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Speaker 8: with a pattern all the way around of the black

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Speaker 8: background with the bright colored musical notes. It's really very,

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Speaker 8: very distinctive. And we've had a quilting person have a

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Speaker 8: look at it and they believe that it's a homemade quilt.

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Speaker 8: So clearly somebody has gone to the effort of making

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Speaker 8: that quilt for somebody they cared and care about in love.

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Speaker 8: It's extremely distinctive, and it's impossible to believe that somebody

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Speaker 8: doesn't know who had that quilt.

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Speaker 2: What kind of person was Carlie? What do we know

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Speaker 2: about who she was?

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Speaker 3: So Carlie grew up in Alice Springs. Her mum was

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Speaker 3: Colleen Povey. Carlie grew up with a huge supportive network

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Speaker 3: of friends and family. She had a lot of cousins aunties.

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Speaker 3: They all played netball together. She went to the local

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Speaker 3: high school, loved to go fishing with her dad, camping,

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Speaker 3: She went on trips with her stepdad who was a

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Speaker 3: truck driver, just crisscrossing around Australia with him. So she

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Speaker 3: was a really happy, social, vivacious young girl growing up.

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Speaker 3: As a teenager, she was a bit rebellious, but what

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Speaker 3: teenager isn't to be honest, and she started to have

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Speaker 3: a little bit of conflict with her parents over their

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Speaker 3: rules and you know, she wanted to go out and

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Speaker 3: it was a bit disinterested in school, so they would

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Speaker 3: have a few common flicks over that. But she left

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Speaker 3: high school in grade ten. She started working at her

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Speaker 3: Auntie stat bar in town and she moved in with

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Speaker 3: her grandmother Connie, who was a bit of a matriarch

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Speaker 3: in their family. She loved looking after her grandkids. Her

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Speaker 3: door was open to anyone whenever they needed it. And

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Speaker 3: it was when Carlie was living with her grandma that

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Speaker 3: she ended up getting in a relationship with a local guy

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Speaker 3: by the name of Robbie. Now Robbie was working at

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Speaker 3: a meat company in el Springs at the time, and

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Speaker 3: he adored Carlie. He had first spotted her, but he's

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Speaker 3: working on the door at a bar in Elie Springs

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Speaker 3: and they just fell in love. They ended up moving

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Speaker 3: into their own place, a unit and car by that

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Speaker 3: point had had candle lees Kennelie's dad wasn't involved in

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Speaker 3: their life from what I've been told, but Carlie was

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Speaker 3: fine with that. She was independent, She loved kids, and

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Speaker 3: she always spoke about the kind of life that she

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Speaker 3: would provide for her own daughter when that time came,

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Speaker 3: and that did come when she was seventeen, and she

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Speaker 3: was quite young, but she had a huge supportive network

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Speaker 3: of family around her that helped her raise candle lease

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Speaker 3: as well. It wasn't until Cali was twenty that she

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Speaker 3: lost away a little bit and she started hanging out

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Speaker 3: with some people that were new to town and picking

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Speaker 3: up their bad habits, which was getting into drugs.

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Speaker 2: So her and Robbie are living together. How old is she,

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Speaker 2: like twenty?

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Speaker 3: She's nineteen twenty.

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Speaker 2: And so then they sort of meet another couple. I

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Speaker 2: think Robbie meets another couple, doesn't he that's right. These

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Speaker 2: are these friends that Carlie starts hanging out with. It's

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Speaker 2: a man by the name of Daniel Holden and his girlfriend.

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Speaker 2: At the time, Hazel passed Moore and her three kids

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Speaker 2: had moved to Alice Springs. They lived quite a transient

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Speaker 2: lifestyle and had been staying at different places along the

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Speaker 2: East Coast in the prior twelve months, but finally settled

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Speaker 2: in Alice Springs in about late two thousand and seven

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Speaker 2: early two thousand and eight. Robbie had met Daniel through work.

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Speaker 2: Daniel approached him one day and they all started hanging

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Speaker 2: out together. Carl and Hazel both had daughters that were

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Speaker 2: at the same age, so they'd play together while the

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Speaker 2: parents just hung around and chewed the fat at Daniel's house.

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Speaker 2: But Daniel at the time was doing drug runs between

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Speaker 2: Adelaide and Alice Springs, and he was selling drugs around

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Speaker 2: Alice Springs as well, And it wasn't before long that

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Speaker 2: Carly started to be influenced by him. From what I've told,

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Speaker 2: it was only ever a short period, say in mid

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Speaker 2: two thousand and eight, that she moved from say just

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Speaker 2: using cannabis and then started using harder drugs like us,

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Speaker 2: and that was eventually her downfall. What kind of man

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Speaker 2: was Daniel? What do we know about his upbringing?

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Speaker 3: And in contrast to Carl's upbringing and the sort of

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Speaker 3: love and support that she had from her family, Daniel

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Speaker 3: had a really troubled upbringing. He was abused as a child,

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Speaker 3: He bounced around foster homes, He had a lot of

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Speaker 3: resentment for his immediate family, and going through his old

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Speaker 3: welfare records and different interviews with his mother and his

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Speaker 3: father as well, you got the sense that there was

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Speaker 3: a period there when no one really wanted to look

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Speaker 3: after him, no one wanted the responsibility. He went from

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Speaker 3: staying with his mom to staying with his biological father.

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Speaker 3: His biological father had to go to work and then

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Speaker 3: sadly died in a car accident, and then Daniel went

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Speaker 3: to his grandparents, but his behavior was out of control,

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Speaker 3: so they didn't want tom either, and then his mom

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Speaker 3: didn't want to take him back, so he ended up

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Speaker 3: bouncing between boys' homes. And it was that unstable upbringing

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Speaker 3: that really shaped him later in life. He started using

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Speaker 3: alcohol and drugs in his mid teens and started racking

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Speaker 3: up a pretty substantial criminal record from when he was

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Speaker 3: quite young. He spent most life growing up in Orange

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Speaker 3: in country New South Wales. He met a woman that

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Speaker 3: he got married to and ended up having two children with,

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Speaker 3: but he doesn't have anything to do with those children

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Speaker 3: anymore as I understand it. And then he sort of

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Speaker 3: moved from regional town to regional town, picking up odd jobs,

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Speaker 3: trying to kick a drug addiction. There were moments in

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Speaker 3: his life where he looked like he could succeed and

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Speaker 3: there was hope for him, but that was always short lived.

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Speaker 3: He'd always somehow fall back into drugs, even if it

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Speaker 3: was he was living in a new town with new

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Speaker 3: friends and new people, he'd somehow fine the bad apples

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Speaker 3: in town and just fall back into the same cycle.

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Speaker 3: And it wasn't until he moved to Queensland in about

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Speaker 3: two thousand and five thousand and six, and he met

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Speaker 3: Hazel Passmore, who became one of the constants in his

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Speaker 3: life but also shaped him for the next few years.

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Speaker 2: Let's go forward to two thousand and eight, because that's

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Speaker 2: sort of the one night that changed everything.

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Speaker 3: So this was in September two thousand and eight. Daniel

249
00:14:12,272 --> 00:14:15,912
Speaker 3: told his mates that he and Hazel and the kids

250
00:14:15,912 --> 00:14:18,592
Speaker 3: were going down to Adelaide for a weekend for one

251
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Speaker 3: of the kid's birthdays, and they jumped in a full

252
00:14:22,232 --> 00:14:25,272
Speaker 3: drive and they were driving down there. It's a pretty

253
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Speaker 3: long drive in the middle of the outback, and at night,

254
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Speaker 3: especially when you're driving around those areas, you really need

255
00:14:30,952 --> 00:14:33,552
Speaker 3: to be careful of kangaroos. They're all over the road

256
00:14:33,712 --> 00:14:36,072
Speaker 3: and they completely right off your car if you hit them.

257
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Speaker 3: It was about eleven PM just before and he claims

258
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Speaker 3: that he swerved the car to avoid hitting a kangaroo

259
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Speaker 3: and the car rolled a few times. He climbed out

260
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Speaker 3: of the wreckage and he was relatively uninjured. But two

261
00:14:51,192 --> 00:14:55,432
Speaker 3: of Hazel's kids died, and he gives a pretty graphic

262
00:14:55,512 --> 00:15:00,312
Speaker 3: and horrific recollection of finding their bodies and his girlfriend

263
00:15:00,312 --> 00:15:03,592
Speaker 3: as well. Hazel was left with horrific injuries. She was

264
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Speaker 3: in a coma for two and a half weeks, had

265
00:15:05,872 --> 00:15:09,792
Speaker 3: to have one her legs amputated, countless operations as well.

266
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Speaker 3: Hazel was taken to Alice Springs Hospital and that night

267
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Speaker 3: Daniel texts Robbie and said, Nate, I need you to

268
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Speaker 3: come to the hospital. I've been in a really bad

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Speaker 3: car accident. Come and help me. Out. Robbie rushes down

270
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Speaker 3: there the next morning and finds Daniel and he's completely

271
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Speaker 3: hysterical and talking about he's responsible essentially for killing his

272
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Speaker 3: girlfriend's two kids and leaving his girlfriend at the time

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Speaker 3: unsure of whether she would survive or not. And it

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Speaker 3: was that day, that crash that really changed things. Robbie

275
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Speaker 3: and Carli had been having trouble a little bit before then,

276
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Speaker 3: and Robbie got the sense that Carlie wanted to leave town.

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Speaker 3: She wanted to see what was outside of Alex Springs

278
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Speaker 3: and go traveling, and Robbie was pretty happy with the

279
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Speaker 3: status quo how things were, but after that crash, Carlie left.

280
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Speaker 3: Robbie moved back in with her grandmother and stayed there

281
00:16:02,072 --> 00:16:04,552
Speaker 3: for a little while, but then ended up getting closer

282
00:16:04,592 --> 00:16:08,112
Speaker 3: to Daniel as well, and she left Alice Springs with

283
00:16:08,192 --> 00:16:12,432
Speaker 3: Daniel and went down to Adelaide not long after the crash.

284
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Speaker 3: Daniel later claimed that Carly was just a shoulder for

285
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Speaker 3: him to cry on and someone that was supporting him.

286
00:16:19,432 --> 00:16:23,032
Speaker 3: But they came back to Alice Springs briefly and Carly

287
00:16:23,152 --> 00:16:26,592
Speaker 3: took Daniel around to her mother's house and Tanya Webber

288
00:16:26,752 --> 00:16:30,992
Speaker 3: was there as well, and the general feeling about Daniel

289
00:16:31,232 --> 00:16:33,872
Speaker 3: from the get go was that he was untrustworthy and

290
00:16:33,912 --> 00:16:36,992
Speaker 3: there was just something off with him. Carly's mother tried

291
00:16:37,032 --> 00:16:40,832
Speaker 3: to convince Carlie to leave Candlea's with her so she

292
00:16:40,912 --> 00:16:42,792
Speaker 3: could look after her and Carli could go off and

293
00:16:42,792 --> 00:16:45,552
Speaker 3: do whatever she needed to do. But carl loved her

294
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Speaker 3: daughter unconditionally and she would never have left her on

295
00:16:48,392 --> 00:16:50,312
Speaker 3: her own and she was adamant about taking her with her.

296
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Speaker 3: Tanya I interviewed her and she said, you know, you

297
00:16:54,232 --> 00:16:56,952
Speaker 3: could just tell there was something wrong with him. He

298
00:16:56,992 --> 00:17:00,152
Speaker 3: wouldn't keep eye contact, He didn't really want much to

299
00:17:00,192 --> 00:17:01,872
Speaker 3: do with us. He just wanted to get out of there.

300
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Speaker 3: There was one point that afternoon where he yelled at

301
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Speaker 3: Candlease when she was playing in the backyard. That didn't

302
00:17:07,871 --> 00:17:11,672
Speaker 3: sit well at all with Colleen, Carly's mum, or Tanya.

303
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Speaker 3: And the last words that Tanya said to Daniel as

304
00:17:15,952 --> 00:17:19,191
Speaker 3: he packed Carlie and Canniley's in the car before they

305
00:17:19,272 --> 00:17:21,472
Speaker 3: drive to Adelaide was make sure you look after them,

306
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Speaker 3: and that was the last time she saw them.

307
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Speaker 2: You mentioned Tanya, who was a friend of Carl's mum,

308
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Speaker 2: and she's the person who will sort of later help

309
00:17:30,391 --> 00:17:32,631
Speaker 2: the police work out who the bodies are. But we're

310
00:17:32,671 --> 00:17:35,352
Speaker 2: going to get to her later. But at this point,

311
00:17:35,552 --> 00:17:38,591
Speaker 2: Carlie and Daniel they've moved away from Hazel and she's

312
00:17:38,631 --> 00:17:41,351
Speaker 2: now in a wheelchair because of that accident where Daniel

313
00:17:41,431 --> 00:17:45,232
Speaker 2: was behind the wheel What kind of position is Hazel

314
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Speaker 2: in at this point and how is she feeling about

315
00:17:48,071 --> 00:17:48,672
Speaker 2: what's happened.

316
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Speaker 3: In two thousand and eight, when Carlie and Daniel and

317
00:17:52,192 --> 00:17:55,671
Speaker 3: Candles left Ella Springs and they went down to stay

318
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Speaker 3: in Adelaide, Hazel was at in hospital receiving treatment for

319
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Speaker 3: the horrific injury she suffered during that car crash. Holdham

320
00:18:04,992 --> 00:18:07,871
Speaker 3: was going to her hospital bedside, and when she finally

321
00:18:07,911 --> 00:18:10,672
Speaker 3: woke up from a coma, she was told that two

322
00:18:10,712 --> 00:18:13,792
Speaker 3: of her children had been killed. You can imagine as

323
00:18:13,831 --> 00:18:17,111
Speaker 3: a mother, what kind of pain and grief that would

324
00:18:17,151 --> 00:18:19,831
Speaker 3: leave you with. And then she found out that Carlie

325
00:18:19,831 --> 00:18:22,431
Speaker 3: and can Lease were down in Adelaide and staying at

326
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Speaker 3: Daniel's motel. She was immediately suspicious and started accusing Daniel

327
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Speaker 3: of all kinds of things. Daniel was trying to deflect,

328
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Speaker 3: saying she's just our friend. She's here to see you

329
00:18:32,512 --> 00:18:35,032
Speaker 3: you have nothing to be worried about. But Hazel wasn't

330
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Speaker 3: so sure. There's one recollection that she had of the

331
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Speaker 3: first day she was allowed out of hospital. She's in

332
00:18:43,552 --> 00:18:46,831
Speaker 3: a wheelchair, she's just had her leg amputated. She's feeling

333
00:18:46,911 --> 00:18:50,751
Speaker 3: quite vulnerable and insecure, and she goes down to the

334
00:18:50,792 --> 00:18:55,231
Speaker 3: shopping street in Adelaide with Daniel and it's clear from

335
00:18:55,431 --> 00:19:01,512
Speaker 3: how she describes her interactions with Carlie and her views

336
00:19:01,552 --> 00:19:05,151
Speaker 3: that day, that she was very jealous of Carlie. She

337
00:19:05,272 --> 00:19:09,432
Speaker 3: told police how Carlie was running around at a skirt

338
00:19:09,671 --> 00:19:13,231
Speaker 3: or a dress that Daniel had bought her, and she

339
00:19:13,311 --> 00:19:15,671
Speaker 3: could tell that, you know, they were flirting. There was

340
00:19:15,712 --> 00:19:18,711
Speaker 3: something going on. And just from reading that, you know,

341
00:19:18,752 --> 00:19:21,631
Speaker 3: you can really tell her insecurities just jump out of

342
00:19:21,671 --> 00:19:25,032
Speaker 3: the page. And it was the start of this deep

343
00:19:25,111 --> 00:19:27,472
Speaker 3: rooted resentment that Hazel had for Carly.

344
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Speaker 2: And so Daniel and Carly went to the motel and

345
00:19:31,232 --> 00:19:34,752
Speaker 2: then they sort of leave town and they go and

346
00:19:34,792 --> 00:19:37,392
Speaker 2: stay with friends. Is that do they go and stay

347
00:19:37,431 --> 00:19:38,751
Speaker 2: with Daniel's sort of friends.

348
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Speaker 3: So in November two thousand and eight, Hazel buries her

349
00:19:43,032 --> 00:19:45,152
Speaker 3: two children that died in a car accident, and they

350
00:19:45,192 --> 00:19:51,432
Speaker 3: have this really emotional traumatic funeral and either that after

351
00:19:51,512 --> 00:19:56,631
Speaker 3: her or the next day, Daniel leaves Adelaide and Hazel

352
00:19:56,671 --> 00:19:58,711
Speaker 3: tells the police that he left her a ward of

353
00:19:58,752 --> 00:20:02,911
Speaker 3: cash under her pillow and Centera text message saying sorry,

354
00:20:02,992 --> 00:20:08,111
Speaker 3: gotta go police her after me. They ended up charging

355
00:20:08,192 --> 00:20:12,871
Speaker 3: him over that crash, but they weren't actively trying to

356
00:20:12,952 --> 00:20:16,071
Speaker 3: hunt him down or turning houses inside out trying to

357
00:20:16,111 --> 00:20:19,552
Speaker 3: find him. I think he was just trying to come

358
00:20:19,631 --> 00:20:22,391
Speaker 3: up with an excuse or some sort of justification to leave,

359
00:20:23,391 --> 00:20:28,111
Speaker 3: and he did leave. Carlie, Daniel and Canderalese drove to

360
00:20:28,151 --> 00:20:30,991
Speaker 3: the Act to Canberra and the northern suburbs there and

361
00:20:31,071 --> 00:20:34,431
Speaker 3: ended up staying with one of Daniel's relatives, his cousin,

362
00:20:34,552 --> 00:20:36,552
Speaker 3: and they settled there for about two weeks.

363
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Speaker 6: Police say they're no closer to establishing the identity of

364
00:20:40,992 --> 00:20:43,752
Speaker 6: a woman whose remains were found in the Blanglow State

365
00:20:43,792 --> 00:20:46,672
Speaker 6: Forest last year. In a first for New South Wales,

366
00:20:46,871 --> 00:20:50,191
Speaker 6: police have released a facial approximation image of the woman

367
00:20:50,431 --> 00:20:53,272
Speaker 6: in the hope that someone will recognize her. Police say

368
00:20:53,311 --> 00:20:57,112
Speaker 6: her death isn't directly linked to convicted serial killer Ivan Malatt,

369
00:20:57,272 --> 00:20:59,512
Speaker 6: but they have described the case as unusual.

370
00:21:01,712 --> 00:21:03,432
Speaker 2: So what does Daniel do from there?

371
00:21:03,952 --> 00:21:07,111
Speaker 3: In late two thousand and eight, after he leave that house,

372
00:21:07,952 --> 00:21:13,831
Speaker 3: he goes he travels back to Adelaide and ends up

373
00:21:13,992 --> 00:21:17,431
Speaker 3: getting back in a relationship with Hazel. Unbeknown to Hazel

374
00:21:17,472 --> 00:21:23,031
Speaker 3: at the time, he has done something horrible to Carlie

375
00:21:23,032 --> 00:21:26,751
Speaker 3: and Candalise, but she's just happy to have him back

376
00:21:27,272 --> 00:21:31,192
Speaker 3: in her house and standing by her again. You've got

377
00:21:31,192 --> 00:21:34,191
Speaker 3: to remember, she has just been through this incredible trauma.

378
00:21:34,472 --> 00:21:37,951
Speaker 3: She's physically disabled for the rest of her life, and

379
00:21:37,992 --> 00:21:40,831
Speaker 3: her boyfriend has run off with someone else. She's feeling

380
00:21:40,831 --> 00:21:45,311
Speaker 3: particularly vulnerable and upset and just wanted a sense of

381
00:21:45,351 --> 00:21:48,311
Speaker 3: normalcy again. So she takes him back in. And it's

382
00:21:48,351 --> 00:21:52,431
Speaker 3: not until the following two or three years that she

383
00:21:52,552 --> 00:21:55,632
Speaker 3: starts to learn what really happened before he got back

384
00:21:55,671 --> 00:21:55,952
Speaker 3: with her.

385
00:21:56,512 --> 00:22:00,432
Speaker 2: He had quite a bizarre sexual relationship with Hazel. Can

386
00:22:00,472 --> 00:22:02,512
Speaker 2: you talk us through some of the details there that

387
00:22:02,552 --> 00:22:05,192
Speaker 2: would later come out about sort of their proclivities when

388
00:22:05,232 --> 00:22:06,712
Speaker 2: it came to their sexual relationship.

389
00:22:07,552 --> 00:22:11,192
Speaker 3: Hazel and Daniel, they had this quite strong hold over

390
00:22:11,232 --> 00:22:14,791
Speaker 3: one another, and I think that's why they kept getting

391
00:22:14,831 --> 00:22:17,472
Speaker 3: back together over the years, and they were together for

392
00:22:17,472 --> 00:22:22,351
Speaker 3: so long, and that's because they engaged in these sexual

393
00:22:22,431 --> 00:22:25,952
Speaker 3: fantasies that most people wouldn't understand and most people would

394
00:22:25,992 --> 00:22:30,111
Speaker 3: quite find quite disturbing. What we've learned is that Daniel

395
00:22:30,192 --> 00:22:34,431
Speaker 3: would get Hazel to write out these fantasies that sometimes

396
00:22:34,472 --> 00:22:39,392
Speaker 3: involved the abuse of children, sometimes touched on someone's own

397
00:22:39,671 --> 00:22:42,992
Speaker 3: actual abuse as a child, and he would get off

398
00:22:43,032 --> 00:22:47,552
Speaker 3: on that. And she just told police about finding pornographic

399
00:22:47,591 --> 00:22:52,151
Speaker 3: images on his computer of young girls as well. They

400
00:22:52,192 --> 00:22:54,672
Speaker 3: were either pubescent or in their twenties.

401
00:22:56,071 --> 00:22:58,951
Speaker 4: Detectives have revealed the remains found in a suitcase on

402
00:22:58,992 --> 00:23:01,991
Speaker 4: the side of the road near Wenaka almost certainly belonged

403
00:23:02,032 --> 00:23:04,471
Speaker 4: to a little girl who may have been killed up

404
00:23:04,472 --> 00:23:06,991
Speaker 4: to eight years ago. More than a week after the

405
00:23:07,032 --> 00:23:10,512
Speaker 4: child's skeleton was found, police are raging closer to identifying

406
00:23:10,512 --> 00:23:11,991
Speaker 4: the victim.

407
00:23:12,631 --> 00:23:16,752
Speaker 2: And so eventually, when that relationship falls apart, Daniel finds

408
00:23:16,792 --> 00:23:20,071
Speaker 2: himself in a sort of relationship with like a sixteen

409
00:23:20,111 --> 00:23:20,952
Speaker 2: year old girl.

410
00:23:20,752 --> 00:23:24,632
Speaker 3: Doesn't he. Hazel and Daniel finally break up in about

411
00:23:24,752 --> 00:23:29,951
Speaker 3: twenty twelve. Daniel goes back to live with his cousin

412
00:23:30,272 --> 00:23:34,232
Speaker 3: at her place in Canberra, and he ends up getting

413
00:23:34,272 --> 00:23:37,111
Speaker 3: a relationship with this really young girl. She was about

414
00:23:37,111 --> 00:23:39,471
Speaker 3: sixteen seventeen at the time, and she lived up the

415
00:23:39,552 --> 00:23:44,111
Speaker 3: road and from what people have told me in neighbors,

416
00:23:44,232 --> 00:23:48,431
Speaker 3: old friends of theirs, even Daniel's family themselves, it was

417
00:23:48,512 --> 00:23:52,071
Speaker 3: really toxic. It was quite a volatile relationship. Daniel was

418
00:23:52,151 --> 00:23:55,351
Speaker 3: using drugs really heavily at the time. They would scream

419
00:23:55,391 --> 00:23:58,391
Speaker 3: at each other and then they'd get back together. But

420
00:23:58,431 --> 00:24:00,991
Speaker 3: they ended up going and staying up on the central

421
00:24:00,992 --> 00:24:03,151
Speaker 3: coast of New South Wales. They were staying at a

422
00:24:03,151 --> 00:24:08,552
Speaker 3: caravan park there. Daniel girlfriend at the time, the young

423
00:24:08,631 --> 00:24:11,191
Speaker 3: girl Tony, she went back to the act to go

424
00:24:11,192 --> 00:24:14,712
Speaker 3: see her family and left hold him in this caravan

425
00:24:14,792 --> 00:24:17,391
Speaker 3: park and it was only after about two or three

426
00:24:17,472 --> 00:24:21,351
Speaker 3: days that she left that he ended up sexually assaulting

427
00:24:21,591 --> 00:24:24,912
Speaker 3: a young girl that was staying at a caravan nearby.

428
00:24:25,512 --> 00:24:27,112
Speaker 2: Do we know how old that girl was?

429
00:24:27,351 --> 00:24:28,432
Speaker 3: She was nine years old.

430
00:24:29,871 --> 00:24:30,311
Speaker 9: Wow.

431
00:24:30,792 --> 00:24:33,631
Speaker 2: So how long did it actually take for Daniel hold

432
00:24:33,671 --> 00:24:35,111
Speaker 2: him to get convicted of this crime?

433
00:24:35,831 --> 00:24:41,191
Speaker 3: He almost immediately police have figured out what's happened. The

434
00:24:41,272 --> 00:24:45,512
Speaker 3: victim went back to her mum's caravan and her mum's

435
00:24:45,512 --> 00:24:49,592
Speaker 3: partner was there and over the next forty eight hours

436
00:24:49,631 --> 00:24:51,831
Speaker 3: the girl breaks down and tells him mum what happened.

437
00:24:52,552 --> 00:24:57,071
Speaker 3: The mum's partner goes looking for Daniel, infuriated and chases

438
00:24:57,111 --> 00:25:00,391
Speaker 3: him out of the caravan park. Bizarrely, Daniel runs to

439
00:25:00,472 --> 00:25:03,991
Speaker 3: the police station in one or two k's away and

440
00:25:04,071 --> 00:25:06,672
Speaker 3: tells them that someone's after him, and you know, they're

441
00:25:06,671 --> 00:25:10,111
Speaker 3: accusing him of touching up a young girl but didn't

442
00:25:10,151 --> 00:25:13,551
Speaker 3: do anything, makes up this ridiculous story that it was

443
00:25:13,631 --> 00:25:16,512
Speaker 3: some old guy with a beard. Of course, police didn't

444
00:25:16,552 --> 00:25:19,191
Speaker 3: believe him. He was charged and then ended up pleading

445
00:25:19,232 --> 00:25:25,272
Speaker 3: guilty to those offenses. And that behavior is indicative of

446
00:25:25,311 --> 00:25:28,671
Speaker 3: the sexual interest that Daniel had. But there had only

447
00:25:28,712 --> 00:25:32,951
Speaker 3: been sort of tiny little insights into that over the years,

448
00:25:32,992 --> 00:25:37,432
Speaker 3: and this to me seemed like years and years of

449
00:25:38,272 --> 00:25:43,191
Speaker 3: pent up sexual interest in children, as disgusting as that is,

450
00:25:43,752 --> 00:25:46,232
Speaker 3: and he acted on it, and he was using drugs

451
00:25:46,272 --> 00:25:48,272
Speaker 3: at the time. He said he hadn't slept for three

452
00:25:48,351 --> 00:25:52,112
Speaker 3: days because he'd been using ice. But looking back at

453
00:25:52,111 --> 00:25:57,432
Speaker 3: his record, you can tell that this behavior wasn't It

454
00:25:57,472 --> 00:25:59,232
Speaker 3: was sort of a sign of the interest that he had.

455
00:26:00,232 --> 00:26:04,391
Speaker 2: So these two dead bodies have shown up and Daniel

456
00:26:04,431 --> 00:26:07,472
Speaker 2: Holdham is in jail, at the time. How do police

457
00:26:07,671 --> 00:26:10,671
Speaker 2: manage to actually link these two cases together.

458
00:26:11,552 --> 00:26:16,711
Speaker 3: It wasn't until October twenty fifteen a woman named Tanya Weber.

459
00:26:16,792 --> 00:26:19,391
Speaker 3: She was in the Northern Territory. She was watching the

460
00:26:19,431 --> 00:26:23,792
Speaker 3: news and reading different articles about this little girl found

461
00:26:23,792 --> 00:26:26,672
Speaker 3: in the suitcase in South Australia. She was looking at

462
00:26:26,671 --> 00:26:28,671
Speaker 3: some of the images of the clothing that was founded

463
00:26:28,631 --> 00:26:32,871
Speaker 3: in there and recognized this tiny, little pink striped cotton

464
00:26:32,952 --> 00:26:36,112
Speaker 3: dress and it felt really familiar to her. And she

465
00:26:36,151 --> 00:26:40,431
Speaker 3: started going through some old photographs looking for photos of

466
00:26:40,472 --> 00:26:43,472
Speaker 3: a friend of hers and her daughter, Carlie Piers Stevenson

467
00:26:43,552 --> 00:26:46,032
Speaker 3: in Candlease, and she came across a photograph of this

468
00:26:46,071 --> 00:26:50,712
Speaker 3: little girl Candilease. She's two years old, very cute, blonde hair,

469
00:26:50,952 --> 00:26:53,911
Speaker 3: and she was standing looking at the camera in this

470
00:26:53,992 --> 00:26:57,112
Speaker 3: picture and she's wearing the exact same pink dress. And

471
00:26:57,151 --> 00:27:02,552
Speaker 3: this was particularly alarming because Carlinen and Kendales's family hadn't

472
00:27:02,591 --> 00:27:05,552
Speaker 3: seen them in several years since they had left Alice

473
00:27:05,552 --> 00:27:08,752
Speaker 3: Bring in thousand and eight. That rang alarm bells to

474
00:27:08,831 --> 00:27:12,912
Speaker 3: Tanya and she ended up calling crime stoppers and saying, look,

475
00:27:12,992 --> 00:27:15,431
Speaker 3: this could be a long shot, but maybe you should

476
00:27:15,552 --> 00:27:17,831
Speaker 3: look at the possibility that that girl in the suitcase

477
00:27:17,911 --> 00:27:18,552
Speaker 3: is Candlease.

478
00:27:19,671 --> 00:27:23,592
Speaker 8: Thank you for coming. The purpose of this media conference

479
00:27:23,671 --> 00:27:27,431
Speaker 8: is to brief you on the identification of the human

480
00:27:27,472 --> 00:27:29,871
Speaker 8: remains that were found in July. The little girl has

481
00:27:29,911 --> 00:27:33,671
Speaker 8: been identified now as Candalse Kia Apears, who was born

482
00:27:33,671 --> 00:27:37,311
Speaker 8: in two thousand and six in Alice Springs. It's actually

483
00:27:37,311 --> 00:27:40,311
Speaker 8: a double breakthrough in that we've also been able to

484
00:27:40,351 --> 00:27:44,151
Speaker 8: identify that the human remains found in twenty ten in

485
00:27:44,151 --> 00:27:46,672
Speaker 8: the Bilangelo State Forest are that of her mother.

486
00:27:49,111 --> 00:27:51,351
Speaker 2: How was it that this Tanya calls and goes, this

487
00:27:51,391 --> 00:27:54,911
Speaker 2: could be Candales, but neither of them were missing people.

488
00:27:54,992 --> 00:27:57,511
Speaker 2: We're officially missing people. How did that happen?

489
00:27:58,391 --> 00:28:01,711
Speaker 3: Once they had Candalse's name and they were able to

490
00:28:01,792 --> 00:28:04,512
Speaker 3: identify that Candalse was a girl in the suitcase by

491
00:28:04,552 --> 00:28:08,632
Speaker 3: getting her medical records, figuring out that was the victim,

492
00:28:09,311 --> 00:28:12,431
Speaker 3: and then they were able to link it to the

493
00:28:12,631 --> 00:28:14,831
Speaker 3: remains fan of Blankley State Forest and figured out that

494
00:28:14,952 --> 00:28:18,671
Speaker 3: was actually her mum, Carl Peters Stevenson. They quickly started

495
00:28:18,671 --> 00:28:22,712
Speaker 3: to piece together their last known movements and where they

496
00:28:22,712 --> 00:28:26,792
Speaker 3: had been for the bryor seven years, and trying to

497
00:28:26,792 --> 00:28:29,431
Speaker 3: answer that question that you just asked as well, how

498
00:28:29,472 --> 00:28:32,751
Speaker 3: did no one notice her on missing? Now we know

499
00:28:33,032 --> 00:28:36,752
Speaker 3: that's because the person that killed them was pretending that

500
00:28:36,792 --> 00:28:40,431
Speaker 3: they were still alive. So he was using Carly's mobile

501
00:28:40,472 --> 00:28:43,792
Speaker 3: phone to text her auntie's, her mother, her cousin, her friend,

502
00:28:43,832 --> 00:28:47,312
Speaker 3: her ex boyfriend, making up all these fanciful stories saying

503
00:28:47,472 --> 00:28:49,872
Speaker 3: I'm in Queensland, I've met someone, I'm really happy. I

504
00:28:49,952 --> 00:28:52,272
Speaker 3: just don't want anything to do with you. Or I

505
00:28:52,272 --> 00:28:54,471
Speaker 3: don't have any money to buy Candilese a birthday present?

506
00:28:54,832 --> 00:28:57,352
Speaker 3: Can you please wire me something? I need five hundred

507
00:28:57,352 --> 00:29:00,352
Speaker 3: dollars to come home. At the time, her mum, Colleen,

508
00:29:00,792 --> 00:29:03,792
Speaker 3: was going through treatment for breast cancer and they were

509
00:29:03,832 --> 00:29:06,952
Speaker 3: really close and she wanted to desperate to know where

510
00:29:06,952 --> 00:29:09,352
Speaker 3: her daughter was. So every time she get a text

511
00:29:09,352 --> 00:29:12,232
Speaker 3: message saying Mama want to come home, can you just

512
00:29:12,272 --> 00:29:14,552
Speaker 3: transfer me money for flights, her mum would do it

513
00:29:14,592 --> 00:29:16,952
Speaker 3: without a second thought, and sometimes it was the last

514
00:29:16,992 --> 00:29:19,192
Speaker 3: bit of money they had left, especially because they were

515
00:29:19,192 --> 00:29:22,711
Speaker 3: pouring a lot into her medical treatment. One of the

516
00:29:22,792 --> 00:29:25,592
Speaker 3: saddest aspects of this case is that Colleen ended up

517
00:29:25,632 --> 00:29:29,671
Speaker 3: passing away in twenty twelve without knowing whatever happened to

518
00:29:29,712 --> 00:29:33,152
Speaker 3: her daughter. And her granddaughter. Another aspect that made people

519
00:29:33,192 --> 00:29:36,312
Speaker 3: think this mother and daughter were still alive was that

520
00:29:36,472 --> 00:29:39,192
Speaker 3: the man that killed them was accessing Carl's bank account

521
00:29:39,431 --> 00:29:42,552
Speaker 3: and taking advantage of her cent to link payments, putting

522
00:29:42,592 --> 00:29:45,791
Speaker 3: his own wages through her bank account. That's one of

523
00:29:46,112 --> 00:29:49,512
Speaker 3: the key proof of life checks that police perform when

524
00:29:49,552 --> 00:29:52,552
Speaker 3: they're investigating missing people as well. They go and have

525
00:29:52,632 --> 00:29:56,511
Speaker 3: a look on social media, bank accounts, phone records. And

526
00:29:56,552 --> 00:29:58,551
Speaker 3: in two thousand and nine, Carli's mother actually put in

527
00:29:58,552 --> 00:30:00,671
Speaker 3: a missing person's report because she hadn't heard from her

528
00:30:00,671 --> 00:30:02,991
Speaker 3: in a little while, and the police in Alice Springs

529
00:30:03,032 --> 00:30:06,551
Speaker 3: investigated it and they looked at her bank account all

530
00:30:06,592 --> 00:30:10,312
Speaker 3: that she accessed her bank account one or two days prior,

531
00:30:10,512 --> 00:30:13,552
Speaker 3: so that was a positive sign to them that she

532
00:30:13,752 --> 00:30:16,232
Speaker 3: was still alive. They wanted to know that it was

533
00:30:16,272 --> 00:30:19,671
Speaker 3: actually the man that killed her taking advantage of whatever

534
00:30:19,671 --> 00:30:22,791
Speaker 3: money was in her bank account, and they ended up

535
00:30:22,832 --> 00:30:26,112
Speaker 3: calling Daniel Holden. The police called Daniel Holden and asked

536
00:30:26,192 --> 00:30:30,152
Speaker 3: him do you know where Carly is? Daniel Holdham made

537
00:30:30,232 --> 00:30:32,911
Speaker 3: up this story that she was in Queensland with some

538
00:30:33,072 --> 00:30:36,672
Speaker 3: other bloke, but of course she wasn't. So police ended

539
00:30:36,752 --> 00:30:41,592
Speaker 3: up closing the investigation quite controversially looking back now, certainly

540
00:30:41,632 --> 00:30:44,832
Speaker 3: the detectives I've spoken to said we wouldn't have done

541
00:30:44,832 --> 00:30:48,592
Speaker 3: that today because they didn't physically cite Carly. They relied

542
00:30:48,712 --> 00:30:49,752
Speaker 3: on a phone call.

543
00:30:49,792 --> 00:30:55,472
Speaker 8: From what I understand, a significant development the investigation has

544
00:30:55,552 --> 00:30:59,832
Speaker 8: been that people who we believe may be the offenders

545
00:30:59,952 --> 00:31:05,352
Speaker 8: and others have taken over Carly's identity, her telephone, her

546
00:31:05,392 --> 00:31:11,392
Speaker 8: bank accounts, has sent a Lincoln family payments in relation

547
00:31:11,472 --> 00:31:14,832
Speaker 8: to the telephone, her mobile phone. We believe that the

548
00:31:14,911 --> 00:31:18,112
Speaker 8: phone was kept by the offenders and used to provide

549
00:31:18,152 --> 00:31:23,192
Speaker 8: some proof of life and to mislead family friends law

550
00:31:23,232 --> 00:31:26,792
Speaker 8: enforcement by suggesting that Carlie was still alive because of

551
00:31:26,832 --> 00:31:27,872
Speaker 8: activity on her phone.

552
00:31:29,112 --> 00:31:31,552
Speaker 2: In the book, you have this sort of scene when

553
00:31:31,911 --> 00:31:34,472
Speaker 2: Colleen is essentially on her deathbed and there were things

554
00:31:34,512 --> 00:31:37,112
Speaker 2: that she was sort of hallucinating. Can you talk us

555
00:31:37,152 --> 00:31:37,471
Speaker 2: through that?

556
00:31:38,352 --> 00:31:41,632
Speaker 3: After a few years, it had been four years since

557
00:31:41,872 --> 00:31:47,032
Speaker 3: Colleen had last seen Carly, her daughter, and her granddaughter, Candallyse.

558
00:31:47,392 --> 00:31:51,632
Speaker 3: That was when they left Alice Springs in November of

559
00:31:51,671 --> 00:31:53,952
Speaker 3: two thousand and eight with this man Daniel hold them.

560
00:31:54,512 --> 00:31:59,152
Speaker 3: She'd receive sporadic text messages from Carl's phone, a very

561
00:31:59,192 --> 00:32:02,552
Speaker 3: strange phone call one day from someone that was whispering

562
00:32:02,632 --> 00:32:04,951
Speaker 3: down the phone, pretending to be Carly and saying, you know,

563
00:32:05,072 --> 00:32:08,352
Speaker 3: I'm scared and I've got two owns and I'm hiding somewhere.

564
00:32:08,712 --> 00:32:11,672
Speaker 3: But she never physically cited her daughter after she left

565
00:32:11,712 --> 00:32:14,632
Speaker 3: in two thousand and eight. Fast forward to twenty twelve

566
00:32:15,112 --> 00:32:18,032
Speaker 3: and Colleen is in the palette of care unit at

567
00:32:18,112 --> 00:32:21,952
Speaker 3: Alice Springs Hospital and the doctors have told her family

568
00:32:22,032 --> 00:32:25,352
Speaker 3: and her husband, Scott Povey, that she was going to

569
00:32:25,392 --> 00:32:28,592
Speaker 3: pass away sooner to get her affairs in order, And

570
00:32:28,911 --> 00:32:31,751
Speaker 3: her family and her friends have told me some just

571
00:32:31,792 --> 00:32:35,432
Speaker 3: heartbreaking moments of her final days alive, where she would

572
00:32:35,431 --> 00:32:39,752
Speaker 3: constantly ask are Carlie and Candles coming? Are they here?

573
00:32:39,752 --> 00:32:43,191
Speaker 3: And have you spoken to them? And at one point

574
00:32:43,232 --> 00:32:46,272
Speaker 3: when her sister was in the hospital room with her,

575
00:32:46,752 --> 00:32:50,471
Speaker 3: Colleen thought she could see Carlien Canderly standing in the

576
00:32:50,512 --> 00:32:54,512
Speaker 3: corner of the room, and of course she was hallucinating.

577
00:32:54,632 --> 00:32:58,912
Speaker 3: But that wasn't long before she passed away. And as

578
00:32:58,911 --> 00:33:01,592
Speaker 3: I said before, it's just such a sad part of

579
00:33:01,632 --> 00:33:05,552
Speaker 3: that case. She never knew what happened to Carlien Canderly's

580
00:33:06,312 --> 00:33:08,872
Speaker 3: certainly her close friend said she thinks it's better that

581
00:33:08,911 --> 00:33:10,752
Speaker 3: way because it would have completely broken her.

582
00:33:11,632 --> 00:33:15,312
Speaker 2: So at this point he's in prison and on the

583
00:33:15,392 --> 00:33:18,272
Speaker 2: news there starts to be this talk of these bodies

584
00:33:18,272 --> 00:33:21,471
Speaker 2: found and there's a quilt and there's sort of certain

585
00:33:21,552 --> 00:33:24,872
Speaker 2: clothing items, which then caught the attention of the family

586
00:33:25,032 --> 00:33:31,112
Speaker 2: of Candalesse and Carly. What happens next in terms of

587
00:33:31,272 --> 00:33:35,031
Speaker 2: drawing a link between Daniel and these two girls.

588
00:33:35,671 --> 00:33:38,792
Speaker 3: Daniel, after he was convicted of that sexual assault, he

589
00:33:38,872 --> 00:33:42,272
Speaker 3: was sentenced to a few years jail in New South Wales.

590
00:33:42,352 --> 00:33:45,791
Speaker 3: He is serving time there when the suitcase turns up

591
00:33:45,832 --> 00:33:49,992
Speaker 3: with Candalice's remains in twenty fifteen, it's all over the news.

592
00:33:50,911 --> 00:33:52,632
Speaker 3: You can only assume that he would have seen it

593
00:33:52,632 --> 00:33:54,991
Speaker 3: because it was a massive case at the time. And

594
00:33:55,072 --> 00:33:59,511
Speaker 3: when police finally identify Candalise and then start looking for Carly,

595
00:34:00,192 --> 00:34:02,392
Speaker 3: they ended up ended up finding out that it was

596
00:34:02,472 --> 00:34:07,352
Speaker 3: Carli because they were going through cases of unideas remains

597
00:34:07,552 --> 00:34:11,752
Speaker 3: around Australia and they came across the Bilanglow case and

598
00:34:12,112 --> 00:34:15,832
Speaker 3: compared the DNA profile taken from those bones against Kali's

599
00:34:15,872 --> 00:34:19,071
Speaker 3: medical records and it was a match. Very quickly they

600
00:34:19,072 --> 00:34:22,151
Speaker 3: started to find out that the last person the mother

601
00:34:22,192 --> 00:34:25,111
Speaker 3: in child was sea with was Daniel Holdam. They had

602
00:34:25,112 --> 00:34:29,111
Speaker 3: to be pretty delicate in the inquiries that they were

603
00:34:29,112 --> 00:34:31,591
Speaker 3: making because they didn't want to tip anyone off. So

604
00:34:31,752 --> 00:34:35,712
Speaker 3: it was a very very sacred investigation for one of

605
00:34:35,712 --> 00:34:38,631
Speaker 3: a better word. Only a handful of people knew about it,

606
00:34:38,712 --> 00:34:40,352
Speaker 3: and they were very careful about the people that they

607
00:34:40,431 --> 00:34:42,951
Speaker 3: were talking to. They were quite comfortable with the fact

608
00:34:42,991 --> 00:34:46,232
Speaker 3: that Daniel Holden was in jail, so that kept him

609
00:34:46,232 --> 00:34:50,151
Speaker 3: at arm's length from key prosecution witnesses as well. In

610
00:34:50,192 --> 00:34:56,352
Speaker 3: October twenty fifteen, they coordinated this massive police operation where

611
00:34:56,352 --> 00:35:01,431
Speaker 3: they were doing raids in the Act South Australia. They

612
00:35:01,431 --> 00:35:04,192
Speaker 3: were interviewing people in our Springs and raids in New

613
00:35:04,232 --> 00:35:08,232
Speaker 3: South Wales and it wasn't until that morning in October

614
00:35:08,352 --> 00:35:11,472
Speaker 3: that the world or the country found out about Carly

615
00:35:11,592 --> 00:35:15,152
Speaker 3: and Kamalese. And at the same time it was timed

616
00:35:15,991 --> 00:35:20,632
Speaker 3: to precision that homicide detectives went up to Daniel Holdham's

617
00:35:21,112 --> 00:35:24,312
Speaker 3: jail in Cestock in New South Wales and turned his

618
00:35:24,352 --> 00:35:27,232
Speaker 3: cell inside out looking for evidence and let him know

619
00:35:27,752 --> 00:35:29,792
Speaker 3: for the first time that he was a key suspect

620
00:35:29,792 --> 00:35:30,472
Speaker 3: in these murders.

621
00:35:32,072 --> 00:35:36,111
Speaker 5: State Crime Command, Homicide Squad, Strike Force Malaya and South

622
00:35:36,152 --> 00:35:39,832
Speaker 5: Australia Major Crimes Task Force MALLE have been investigating the

623
00:35:39,872 --> 00:35:44,592
Speaker 5: deaths of Carl per Stevenson and her daughter candalase kiar Apias.

624
00:35:45,752 --> 00:35:48,352
Speaker 5: In October this year, a forty one year old male

625
00:35:48,951 --> 00:35:52,632
Speaker 5: was arrested at Cesnock Police Station and charged with the

626
00:35:52,712 --> 00:35:56,592
Speaker 5: murder of Carl. Earlier this morning, police from the Homicide

627
00:35:56,592 --> 00:35:59,951
Speaker 5: Squad arrested the forty one year old man at Paramounta

628
00:35:59,991 --> 00:36:03,792
Speaker 5: Police Station. He has since been charged with the murder

629
00:36:03,792 --> 00:36:08,151
Speaker 5: of Candlease. At this stay, Joy anticipate that the man

630
00:36:08,152 --> 00:36:10,792
Speaker 5: will appear the Paramountal Life Record lad of this afternoon.

631
00:36:14,672 --> 00:36:17,352
Speaker 2: What kind of evidence did they find because they turned

632
00:36:17,352 --> 00:36:19,872
Speaker 2: a few houses upside down because he was sort of

633
00:36:19,911 --> 00:36:23,072
Speaker 2: a notorious hoarder and kept everything. What kind of stuff

634
00:36:23,072 --> 00:36:23,712
Speaker 2: did they find?

635
00:36:24,392 --> 00:36:26,911
Speaker 3: It was quite remarkable the evidence that they did come

636
00:36:26,911 --> 00:36:31,071
Speaker 3: across in this investigation. After any homicide investigation, it's hard

637
00:36:31,152 --> 00:36:36,192
Speaker 3: enough to try and find DNA evidence and weapons and

638
00:36:36,272 --> 00:36:41,751
Speaker 3: photographic evidence. When the police were interviewing Daniel Holdham and

639
00:36:41,872 --> 00:36:44,951
Speaker 3: searching through all his stuff, this is seven years after

640
00:36:44,991 --> 00:36:47,432
Speaker 3: he committed the murders, but the stuff they came across

641
00:36:47,592 --> 00:36:53,192
Speaker 3: was amazing, so they ended up finding photographs that Daniel

642
00:36:53,192 --> 00:36:56,192
Speaker 3: Holdham had taken off Carli's body in Blanglo State Forest.

643
00:36:57,192 --> 00:37:00,192
Speaker 3: And the way they found that was Hazel had actually

644
00:37:00,232 --> 00:37:03,071
Speaker 3: come across this SD card when she was searching through

645
00:37:03,152 --> 00:37:06,071
Speaker 3: Daniel Holdham's stuff. She was convinced that he was having

646
00:37:06,112 --> 00:37:09,671
Speaker 3: an fair even in twenty eleven twenty twelve, and she

647
00:37:09,712 --> 00:37:12,312
Speaker 3: would regularly go through all his stuff and he's in

648
00:37:12,352 --> 00:37:14,551
Speaker 3: their bedroom in the back of his car, looking for

649
00:37:14,592 --> 00:37:17,471
Speaker 3: evidence to confirm her suspicions. She ended up finding this

650
00:37:17,511 --> 00:37:19,832
Speaker 3: total little SD card and put it in to a

651
00:37:19,872 --> 00:37:22,872
Speaker 3: card reader and a computer and all these images came

652
00:37:22,951 --> 00:37:26,951
Speaker 3: up of what was clearly Carli and he was doing

653
00:37:26,951 --> 00:37:30,991
Speaker 3: some pretty horrific things in the photos ed. Hazel ended

654
00:37:31,072 --> 00:37:34,192
Speaker 3: up giving that SD card to her sister and she

655
00:37:34,312 --> 00:37:37,392
Speaker 3: said to her, if anything happens to me, take this

656
00:37:37,431 --> 00:37:40,312
Speaker 3: to the police. Her sister held on to it for

657
00:37:41,031 --> 00:37:44,111
Speaker 3: three years and when the news broke that this was

658
00:37:44,471 --> 00:37:48,232
Speaker 3: Carli and Candalise and Hazel was in the news as well,

659
00:37:48,232 --> 00:37:50,551
Speaker 3: be as her house was being raided in South Australia,

660
00:37:51,072 --> 00:37:54,751
Speaker 3: Hazel's sister walked into a police station ran a police

661
00:37:54,752 --> 00:37:57,471
Speaker 3: station near her house in South Australia and said, I

662
00:37:57,471 --> 00:37:58,832
Speaker 3: think you need to have a look at this. Hand

663
00:37:58,872 --> 00:37:59,992
Speaker 3: it over the SD card.

664
00:38:00,392 --> 00:38:03,591
Speaker 2: So had Hazel ever asked him? She'd come across these

665
00:38:03,632 --> 00:38:06,352
Speaker 2: images Carli and Candalase who used to be part of

666
00:38:06,392 --> 00:38:09,711
Speaker 2: their lives. Suddenly she doesn't see them. Does she ever

667
00:38:09,792 --> 00:38:12,232
Speaker 2: confront Daniel and say what happened?

668
00:38:13,272 --> 00:38:15,431
Speaker 3: It's hard to know in this case because there are

669
00:38:15,471 --> 00:38:17,872
Speaker 3: so many people that are lying and trying to protect

670
00:38:17,872 --> 00:38:21,671
Speaker 3: their own reputation. So just going off what she said,

671
00:38:21,712 --> 00:38:24,711
Speaker 3: I guess to police years later, Yes she did ask

672
00:38:24,792 --> 00:38:27,832
Speaker 3: Daniel and that's one of the hardest things to understand

673
00:38:27,911 --> 00:38:30,112
Speaker 3: is how you could stay with someone after he admitted

674
00:38:30,152 --> 00:38:33,151
Speaker 3: to killing a mother and child. He drip fed her

675
00:38:33,392 --> 00:38:36,832
Speaker 3: confessions over the years, so from when they got back

676
00:38:36,832 --> 00:38:39,591
Speaker 3: together in two thousand and eight until about twenty twelve

677
00:38:39,632 --> 00:38:42,911
Speaker 3: when they broke up, and at first it was when

678
00:38:42,951 --> 00:38:46,472
Speaker 3: Hazel would confront him after finding Carly's bank card and

679
00:38:46,592 --> 00:38:49,471
Speaker 3: Candalie's birth certificate in the back of his car and

680
00:38:49,991 --> 00:38:53,272
Speaker 3: just assuming that he was going off to the act

681
00:38:53,392 --> 00:38:56,752
Speaker 3: and having an affair with her. Holdham said don't worry.

682
00:38:56,752 --> 00:39:00,272
Speaker 3: She's gone. And when Hazel pressed him on that, he said,

683
00:39:00,392 --> 00:39:03,792
Speaker 3: and I killed her essentially, And then a little bit

684
00:39:03,911 --> 00:39:06,312
Speaker 3: later he would give her a little bit of information

685
00:39:06,431 --> 00:39:09,432
Speaker 3: about what happened to Candalase. One of the most hardest

686
00:39:09,431 --> 00:39:14,312
Speaker 3: part in this book is that Hazel recounts how Daniel

687
00:39:14,352 --> 00:39:19,312
Speaker 3: told her he murdered Candalise after trying to sexually assault her.

688
00:39:20,112 --> 00:39:25,551
Speaker 3: So Hazel tells police her justification for staying with him

689
00:39:25,872 --> 00:39:28,872
Speaker 3: was that Daniel was a prolific liar and she didn't

690
00:39:28,911 --> 00:39:31,792
Speaker 3: know whether to believe him or not, whether that's true,

691
00:39:32,312 --> 00:39:35,752
Speaker 3: whether that's just a self serving answer that's up out

692
00:39:35,792 --> 00:39:39,591
Speaker 3: for interpretation. But she said she didn't know whether he

693
00:39:39,672 --> 00:39:43,392
Speaker 3: was telling the truth or not and how to believe him.

694
00:39:43,511 --> 00:39:47,392
Speaker 3: But it was after she found those photographs that confirmed

695
00:39:47,392 --> 00:39:51,352
Speaker 3: to her he had committed these murders, and she gave

696
00:39:51,392 --> 00:39:54,072
Speaker 3: it to her sister, and then a few months later

697
00:39:54,232 --> 00:39:56,472
Speaker 3: they broke up. There was a part in her police

698
00:39:56,511 --> 00:39:59,071
Speaker 3: interview where she said, I knew then that I had

699
00:39:59,072 --> 00:40:01,672
Speaker 3: to get out of that relationship, otherwise I might not

700
00:40:01,672 --> 00:40:02,271
Speaker 3: get out alive.

701
00:40:03,272 --> 00:40:06,591
Speaker 2: So from the police, they've seen these photos and to

702
00:40:06,632 --> 00:40:10,591
Speaker 2: piece together the final moments of Carli and Candales. What

703
00:40:10,672 --> 00:40:13,032
Speaker 2: do we know about how they died.

704
00:40:15,551 --> 00:40:19,392
Speaker 3: We know that Carl and Daniel had an argument when

705
00:40:19,431 --> 00:40:22,392
Speaker 3: they were staying in Canberra in December two thousand and eight.

706
00:40:23,031 --> 00:40:26,152
Speaker 3: Based on witness accounts. It was overboard over the money

707
00:40:26,152 --> 00:40:28,192
Speaker 3: that Carl was meant to be paying to be staying

708
00:40:28,431 --> 00:40:31,471
Speaker 3: at Daniel's relative's house. They jumped in her car for

709
00:40:31,511 --> 00:40:33,551
Speaker 3: some reason in the middle of the night and drove

710
00:40:33,592 --> 00:40:35,872
Speaker 3: to Bilanglo State Forest, which is about one and a

711
00:40:35,872 --> 00:40:39,352
Speaker 3: half two hours drive from Canberra. We don't know exactly

712
00:40:39,431 --> 00:40:41,832
Speaker 3: what happened in that forest because Daniel Holdham has never

713
00:40:41,872 --> 00:40:45,431
Speaker 3: told anyone this is how it happened and this is

714
00:40:45,471 --> 00:40:49,512
Speaker 3: why I did it. He's given certain versions over the years,

715
00:40:49,551 --> 00:40:51,352
Speaker 3: but they don't match up with any of the evidence.

716
00:40:51,392 --> 00:40:53,712
Speaker 3: So we will never really know what happened inside that forest.

717
00:40:53,792 --> 00:40:56,951
Speaker 3: But we do know that he murdered her. She had

718
00:40:57,031 --> 00:41:00,672
Speaker 3: cracks in her ribs, which suggests there was some blunt

719
00:41:00,672 --> 00:41:04,071
Speaker 3: force trauma to her body, and then he's left her

720
00:41:04,072 --> 00:41:07,471
Speaker 3: body there and driven back to Canberra. Over the next

721
00:41:07,511 --> 00:41:10,911
Speaker 3: few days, he turns his sights to Candlease. The suggestion

722
00:41:11,911 --> 00:41:14,711
Speaker 3: is after looking at all the evidence and the kind

723
00:41:14,712 --> 00:41:17,312
Speaker 3: of person Daniel was in the interest that he had

724
00:41:17,471 --> 00:41:20,992
Speaker 3: is that he killed Carli to try and get access

725
00:41:21,031 --> 00:41:24,752
Speaker 3: to Candilese. And we have to try to remember that

726
00:41:25,072 --> 00:41:28,591
Speaker 3: he did have this underlying sexual interest in children at

727
00:41:28,592 --> 00:41:33,711
Speaker 3: this point and fantasized about child sexual abuse. So one

728
00:41:33,712 --> 00:41:36,591
Speaker 3: of the obvious assumptions you can make is that he

729
00:41:36,632 --> 00:41:40,712
Speaker 3: had some horrific plans for Candalesse and needed to get

730
00:41:40,872 --> 00:41:43,471
Speaker 3: her mother out of the picture. One of the other

731
00:41:43,511 --> 00:41:46,272
Speaker 3: suggestions that was made, especially during the court case, was

732
00:41:46,312 --> 00:41:49,631
Speaker 3: that after he killed Carli, he was left with her

733
00:41:49,712 --> 00:41:52,672
Speaker 3: daughter and he couldn't possibly turn up to Adelaide without Carli,

734
00:41:52,792 --> 00:41:56,111
Speaker 3: so we had to get rid of Candilese. So, as

735
00:41:56,152 --> 00:42:00,111
Speaker 3: I said, because we don't have a definitive account from

736
00:42:00,152 --> 00:42:02,751
Speaker 3: the killer of why he did it, we can only

737
00:42:02,792 --> 00:42:06,511
Speaker 3: make a few assumptions about what happened. After he's turn

738
00:42:06,592 --> 00:42:09,991
Speaker 3: to Canberra without Carli, he gets his cousin's husband to

739
00:42:10,152 --> 00:42:12,911
Speaker 3: trade in Carl's car, essentially to get rid of it

740
00:42:13,232 --> 00:42:15,832
Speaker 3: and to get a new one so there's no trace

741
00:42:15,872 --> 00:42:20,071
Speaker 3: of Carli anymore. Then he tells his cousin and her

742
00:42:20,112 --> 00:42:22,511
Speaker 3: husband that he's going to go and drop Candlease at

743
00:42:22,551 --> 00:42:27,471
Speaker 3: her grandmother's house. In South Australia. They jump in this

744
00:42:27,551 --> 00:42:30,591
Speaker 3: new cover. They have candleicse in the back seat and

745
00:42:30,632 --> 00:42:34,232
Speaker 3: they start driving there. But he doesn't go straight to Adelaide.

746
00:42:34,232 --> 00:42:36,711
Speaker 3: He makes a number of stops along the way. Years

747
00:42:36,792 --> 00:42:39,912
Speaker 3: later police were able to figure out the exact route

748
00:42:39,911 --> 00:42:43,551
Speaker 3: that he went from tracking his phone records and his

749
00:42:43,592 --> 00:42:47,431
Speaker 3: bank statements and credit card statements, and it's it's quite

750
00:42:47,431 --> 00:42:48,911
Speaker 3: interesting when you look at it.

751
00:42:49,272 --> 00:42:49,752
Speaker 2: They have a.

752
00:42:49,712 --> 00:42:52,671
Speaker 3: Physical map of his stops along the way, how long

753
00:42:52,712 --> 00:42:54,951
Speaker 3: he stopped at each town, the phone calls he was

754
00:42:54,991 --> 00:42:59,632
Speaker 3: making as well, and they sent some detectives out and said, okay,

755
00:42:59,752 --> 00:43:02,031
Speaker 3: go find out what he was doing. Even though it

756
00:43:02,072 --> 00:43:04,312
Speaker 3: was years later, they were able to figure out that

757
00:43:04,312 --> 00:43:08,832
Speaker 3: he went to Woolworth in Wogga Wogga and spent twenty

758
00:43:08,832 --> 00:43:14,631
Speaker 3: five dollars or thereabouts, and they requested his receipt from

759
00:43:14,632 --> 00:43:18,352
Speaker 3: the time, and this is several years later and they

760
00:43:18,471 --> 00:43:21,352
Speaker 3: ended up getting an itemized receipt. And these items on

761
00:43:21,431 --> 00:43:24,552
Speaker 3: their own look harmless enough, but in this context they're

762
00:43:24,592 --> 00:43:29,592
Speaker 3: particularly chilling. He bought garbage bags, chucks, wipe's hand soap

763
00:43:29,832 --> 00:43:32,392
Speaker 3: and then got back in the car with candle lease

764
00:43:32,511 --> 00:43:36,152
Speaker 3: drove on another hour to Nerandra, a tiny town outside

765
00:43:36,152 --> 00:43:40,312
Speaker 3: of Wogga, and checked into a motel. And again an

766
00:43:40,352 --> 00:43:41,991
Speaker 3: amazing piece of evidence that they've been to be able

767
00:43:42,031 --> 00:43:45,591
Speaker 3: to pick up years later was the handwritten check in

768
00:43:45,672 --> 00:43:49,232
Speaker 3: notice that Daniel Holdham signed when he checked in with Candlelese.

769
00:43:49,832 --> 00:43:53,431
Speaker 3: And at this point of the investigation, police didn't know

770
00:43:53,511 --> 00:43:56,671
Speaker 3: exactly where Candilease had died. They knew that she left

771
00:43:56,712 --> 00:43:59,312
Speaker 3: Canberra alive and she turned up dead in South Australia,

772
00:43:59,392 --> 00:44:01,591
Speaker 3: so they were trying to figure out where she was

773
00:44:01,672 --> 00:44:05,992
Speaker 3: murdered somewhere in between those two locations, and they needed

774
00:44:05,991 --> 00:44:08,312
Speaker 3: to pin down the last place that she was seen alive.

775
00:44:08,712 --> 00:44:12,191
Speaker 3: They go to this motel and they searching through all

776
00:44:12,232 --> 00:44:15,991
Speaker 3: the old records looking for anything they can that will

777
00:44:16,031 --> 00:44:19,071
Speaker 3: show Daniel checked in there because they knew on his

778
00:44:19,152 --> 00:44:22,151
Speaker 3: bank statements that he paid for a night. Couldn't find it,

779
00:44:22,192 --> 00:44:25,112
Speaker 3: so they went and tracked down the old motel owner

780
00:44:25,752 --> 00:44:29,272
Speaker 3: and said, look, we know it's ages ago, but is

781
00:44:29,312 --> 00:44:31,232
Speaker 3: there any chance that you kept your old records and

782
00:44:31,272 --> 00:44:34,991
Speaker 3: she had nothing to do with the business anymore. But remarkably,

783
00:44:35,072 --> 00:44:37,111
Speaker 3: a week later she calls police and says, I think

784
00:44:37,152 --> 00:44:39,471
Speaker 3: I have what you're looking for they go out to

785
00:44:39,511 --> 00:44:43,712
Speaker 3: her house and there's a small piece of paper with

786
00:44:43,872 --> 00:44:47,232
Speaker 3: the motel name on the top of it, and Daniel

787
00:44:47,232 --> 00:44:52,232
Speaker 3: Holdham has written his name, his address, his phone number

788
00:44:52,712 --> 00:44:56,551
Speaker 3: and marked one adult and one child and that was

789
00:44:56,632 --> 00:45:00,991
Speaker 3: essentially the last sign of Canderlelyse alive. Police believe that

790
00:45:01,031 --> 00:45:04,991
Speaker 3: she was either murdered inside a room at that motel

791
00:45:05,392 --> 00:45:08,671
Speaker 3: or near the motel somewhere before her body was put

792
00:45:08,712 --> 00:45:12,471
Speaker 3: in that suitcase with all the clothing and that beautiful

793
00:45:12,471 --> 00:45:16,672
Speaker 3: blanket of hers, and he just chucked it out like

794
00:45:17,152 --> 00:45:19,632
Speaker 3: it was rubbish on the side of the highway before

795
00:45:19,752 --> 00:45:21,912
Speaker 3: driving straight back to his ex girlfriend's house.

796
00:45:23,832 --> 00:45:27,751
Speaker 10: Today, the police told Candalesse's grandfather and through him, other

797
00:45:27,832 --> 00:45:30,752
Speaker 10: family that a forty one year old man who is

798
00:45:30,872 --> 00:45:35,312
Speaker 10: charged with the murder of Carli Candalesse's mother will also

799
00:45:35,392 --> 00:45:38,431
Speaker 10: be charged with the murder of Candleesse. This is very

800
00:45:38,511 --> 00:45:42,151
Speaker 10: much welcome news. It is welcome because those who love

801
00:45:42,232 --> 00:45:45,872
Speaker 10: Candalise want her killer call to account for such a

802
00:45:45,951 --> 00:45:50,631
Speaker 10: despicable crime. Homicide is a most heenous crime. Carli's and

803
00:45:50,712 --> 00:45:54,792
Speaker 10: Candalesse's family and friends have had their lives suddenly and

804
00:45:54,872 --> 00:46:00,392
Speaker 10: horribly disrupted. Nothing has prepared these people for their suffering.

805
00:46:01,192 --> 00:46:04,752
Speaker 10: For them life will never be the same. Thank you.

806
00:46:09,792 --> 00:46:12,752
Speaker 2: And he then went to court when they've got all

807
00:46:12,792 --> 00:46:16,911
Speaker 2: of this evidence together. What was the court case like

808
00:46:16,991 --> 00:46:18,832
Speaker 2: and what was the conviction.

809
00:46:19,551 --> 00:46:22,632
Speaker 3: When it all broke, it was huge. People couldn't believe

810
00:46:22,712 --> 00:46:25,071
Speaker 3: that these two cases were linked. They were so high

811
00:46:25,072 --> 00:46:29,392
Speaker 3: profile on their own and to have them linked was

812
00:46:29,471 --> 00:46:32,671
Speaker 3: just mind boggling. I remember sitting in the newsroom one

813
00:46:32,712 --> 00:46:35,951
Speaker 3: morning and a call came through from someone in the

814
00:46:35,991 --> 00:46:38,911
Speaker 3: police saying, look, there's going to be a huge announcement

815
00:46:38,991 --> 00:46:41,711
Speaker 3: and we're going to link these two cases. We didn't

816
00:46:41,752 --> 00:46:44,071
Speaker 3: know which cases they were, and we're all speculating could

817
00:46:44,072 --> 00:46:47,271
Speaker 3: be William Tyrell and Madeline McCain or what's going on here,

818
00:46:47,672 --> 00:46:50,112
Speaker 3: And then to find out it was those two cases

819
00:46:50,232 --> 00:46:53,151
Speaker 3: was just incredible. So you can imagine the hype and

820
00:46:53,352 --> 00:46:57,632
Speaker 3: the media interest around it. Maitland Court was where Daniel

821
00:46:57,632 --> 00:47:01,031
Speaker 3: Holdham appears a week later when he was charged with

822
00:47:01,072 --> 00:47:04,352
Speaker 3: the murders in October twenty fifteen, and the court was

823
00:47:04,431 --> 00:47:07,352
Speaker 3: packed and he appeared by audio visual link and it

824
00:47:07,392 --> 00:47:10,271
Speaker 3: was the first time that people got to see him

825
00:47:10,592 --> 00:47:12,631
Speaker 3: almost in the flesh and get a sense of what

826
00:47:12,752 --> 00:47:15,392
Speaker 3: he was like, but it wouldn't be until years later

827
00:47:15,431 --> 00:47:18,192
Speaker 3: that he actually appeared in person in court and that

828
00:47:18,352 --> 00:47:22,631
Speaker 3: was during his committal hearing in Sydney. There was the

829
00:47:22,672 --> 00:47:25,551
Speaker 3: sense that he just wanted to do anything that he

830
00:47:25,592 --> 00:47:29,471
Speaker 3: could to delay it. He was admitted to hospital, he

831
00:47:29,551 --> 00:47:32,672
Speaker 3: left all his legal documents in a jail in Goldben,

832
00:47:33,232 --> 00:47:36,352
Speaker 3: He sacked his lawyer, He wanted to self represent and

833
00:47:36,471 --> 00:47:39,631
Speaker 3: it was just getting incredibly frustrating. But you know, the

834
00:47:39,672 --> 00:47:42,151
Speaker 3: magistrate was just determined to make it happen and wasn't

835
00:47:42,152 --> 00:47:44,431
Speaker 3: going to let him wriggle out of this, and we

836
00:47:44,471 --> 00:47:46,752
Speaker 3: all expected that he was going to go to trial,

837
00:47:47,232 --> 00:47:50,511
Speaker 3: even though the case against him was amazing. Police were

838
00:47:50,551 --> 00:47:53,232
Speaker 3: able to link all this stuff that we'd spoken about,

839
00:47:53,352 --> 00:47:56,031
Speaker 3: the stuff he bought it wogga wogga was used in

840
00:47:56,072 --> 00:48:01,111
Speaker 3: the way that Candale's body was discarded. The photographs. They

841
00:48:01,112 --> 00:48:04,992
Speaker 3: were able to close up on a mole on Daniel

842
00:48:04,991 --> 00:48:07,471
Speaker 3: Holdham's arm that was in one of the photographs with

843
00:48:07,551 --> 00:48:10,872
Speaker 3: Carli's body, the confessions he had made to his ex

844
00:48:10,911 --> 00:48:13,832
Speaker 3: girlfriends over the years as well, But he was just

845
00:48:13,872 --> 00:48:18,792
Speaker 3: adamant that he wasn't going to admit guilt. That wasn't

846
00:48:18,951 --> 00:48:22,832
Speaker 3: until twenty eighteen. It was a week out from his trial.

847
00:48:23,192 --> 00:48:26,072
Speaker 3: It was set down for three months. Witnesses had booked flights,

848
00:48:26,112 --> 00:48:28,392
Speaker 3: the police were putting the final touches on the brief.

849
00:48:28,832 --> 00:48:31,471
Speaker 3: It was going to be huge, and all of a

850
00:48:31,511 --> 00:48:36,191
Speaker 3: sudden he turns around and pleads guilty to two counts

851
00:48:36,232 --> 00:48:39,632
Speaker 3: of murder. And the one condition I guess he had

852
00:48:39,832 --> 00:48:42,192
Speaker 3: was he was adamant there was a non publication or

853
00:48:42,232 --> 00:48:45,031
Speaker 3: to placed on someone that was very close to him.

854
00:48:45,551 --> 00:48:49,431
Speaker 3: He was worried about their protection, and he entered the

855
00:48:49,431 --> 00:48:52,911
Speaker 3: guilty please, and that was It was sort of a

856
00:48:52,911 --> 00:48:56,711
Speaker 3: bittersweet relief, I guess for Carlin and Cannale's family. And

857
00:48:56,752 --> 00:49:01,192
Speaker 3: then it wasn't until November late last year where he

858
00:49:01,232 --> 00:49:03,991
Speaker 3: went to sentencing, and it was the first time then

859
00:49:04,312 --> 00:49:07,312
Speaker 3: when members of Carline Kennealse's family stood up and read

860
00:49:07,312 --> 00:49:09,352
Speaker 3: out victim impacts haatements. There were a really good sense

861
00:49:09,352 --> 00:49:12,552
Speaker 3: of who who this young mother and her child were.

862
00:49:13,272 --> 00:49:17,471
Speaker 3: The family were quite private and they respected the judicial process.

863
00:49:17,511 --> 00:49:19,352
Speaker 3: They didn't want to speak out or say anything that

864
00:49:19,392 --> 00:49:22,232
Speaker 3: would jeopardize that until it was all over. So to

865
00:49:22,312 --> 00:49:24,712
Speaker 3: hear them stand up and court one after another and

866
00:49:24,872 --> 00:49:27,192
Speaker 3: talk about the fond memories they had of the girls

867
00:49:27,511 --> 00:49:30,912
Speaker 3: and how much they missed them was just heartbreaking. Daniel

868
00:49:30,911 --> 00:49:33,312
Speaker 3: Holden was sitting there the whole time. He seemed completely disinterested,

869
00:49:33,392 --> 00:49:37,832
Speaker 3: just flicking through papers like it was just a mundane activity.

870
00:49:38,712 --> 00:49:41,951
Speaker 3: And then he was finally sentenced to two terms of

871
00:49:42,152 --> 00:49:46,071
Speaker 3: life imprisonment. That was after he tried to change he's

872
00:49:46,072 --> 00:49:48,752
Speaker 3: guilty plead to the murder of Candlease at the last minute.

873
00:49:49,152 --> 00:49:51,832
Speaker 3: Thankfully the judge was having nothing none of that and

874
00:49:52,072 --> 00:49:52,511
Speaker 3: pushed on.

875
00:49:53,792 --> 00:49:56,392
Speaker 11: A Sydney judge has sentenced Daniel hold Him to life

876
00:49:56,392 --> 00:49:59,392
Speaker 11: in prison for the murder of Carly Pierce Stevenson and

877
00:49:59,471 --> 00:50:02,872
Speaker 11: her daughter, Candies Pierce. It was a pause from the

878
00:50:02,911 --> 00:50:05,471
Speaker 11: public gallery when the sentence was handed down.

879
00:50:06,392 --> 00:50:09,951
Speaker 7: Robert Hume said Daniel James Holdham showed complete disdain for

880
00:50:10,031 --> 00:50:13,352
Speaker 7: the existence of his girlfriend, Carlie Pierce Stevenson, and that

881
00:50:13,392 --> 00:50:16,031
Speaker 7: to him, she was just flesh that could be extinguished

882
00:50:16,192 --> 00:50:18,591
Speaker 7: for his vile pleasure. He said the manner in which

883
00:50:18,592 --> 00:50:22,671
Speaker 7: she was killed amounted to extreme gravity and appalling depravity.

884
00:50:22,911 --> 00:50:26,232
Speaker 7: And he said that Canalis was a completely defenseless two

885
00:50:26,312 --> 00:50:29,551
Speaker 7: year old girl who was intentionally killed with some forethought,

886
00:50:29,792 --> 00:50:31,752
Speaker 7: and the fact that there was a sexual element to

887
00:50:31,792 --> 00:50:33,832
Speaker 7: her death only made it more despicable.

888
00:50:35,872 --> 00:50:38,031
Speaker 2: And the last thing I wanted to ask you is

889
00:50:38,352 --> 00:50:41,272
Speaker 2: what it was about this case that you couldn't let

890
00:50:41,352 --> 00:50:44,272
Speaker 2: go of. What was it that you found so particularly

891
00:50:44,592 --> 00:50:47,191
Speaker 2: interesting and compelling about this that prompted you to write

892
00:50:47,232 --> 00:50:47,592
Speaker 2: a book.

893
00:50:48,072 --> 00:50:50,552
Speaker 3: When I was reporting on this case as a newspaper

894
00:50:50,632 --> 00:50:55,031
Speaker 3: journalist in twenty fifteen, I remember being constantly frustrated that

895
00:50:55,072 --> 00:50:57,872
Speaker 3: I couldn't fit everything into one newspaper article. I was

896
00:50:57,911 --> 00:51:02,471
Speaker 3: always leaving something out, and with each press conference on

897
00:51:02,551 --> 00:51:06,631
Speaker 3: this case, there was just new shocking information that was out.

898
00:51:06,712 --> 00:51:08,872
Speaker 3: There was a sense that the case couldn't get any worse,

899
00:51:09,352 --> 00:51:11,911
Speaker 3: but then it did, and I felt like it really

900
00:51:11,991 --> 00:51:15,832
Speaker 3: lent itself to long form journalism. It needed to be

901
00:51:15,951 --> 00:51:19,512
Speaker 3: in a format where the whole entire story could be told.

902
00:51:19,672 --> 00:51:22,071
Speaker 3: It seemed like there was just so much to it

903
00:51:22,672 --> 00:51:27,512
Speaker 3: that wasn't being explored either. Something that struck me throughout

904
00:51:27,592 --> 00:51:30,272
Speaker 3: this was we didn't know much about Carlie and Canderies,

905
00:51:30,832 --> 00:51:34,392
Speaker 3: and that's only because their family respected their privacy. But

906
00:51:35,152 --> 00:51:38,312
Speaker 3: I wanted to really be able to highlight the victims

907
00:51:38,312 --> 00:51:40,672
Speaker 3: at the center of this case and not focus so

908
00:51:40,832 --> 00:51:44,192
Speaker 3: much on the person who did these horrible things to

909
00:51:44,352 --> 00:51:47,512
Speaker 3: them at the end of it, you know, having finished

910
00:51:47,551 --> 00:51:51,792
Speaker 3: the book, I think that's something that I'm most proud of,

911
00:51:51,832 --> 00:51:55,151
Speaker 3: or I found most rewarding, was being able to give

912
00:51:55,232 --> 00:51:58,791
Speaker 3: people a real sense of who Carlie and Kenley's were

913
00:51:59,672 --> 00:52:03,591
Speaker 3: and challenge some of those misconceptions people came up with

914
00:52:03,951 --> 00:52:07,031
Speaker 3: because she was a young mother, or as she had

915
00:52:07,072 --> 00:52:10,832
Speaker 3: been involved in drugs just before her death, that didn't

916
00:52:10,872 --> 00:52:12,991
Speaker 3: define her, and I think it was really important to

917
00:52:13,031 --> 00:52:16,752
Speaker 3: tell people that the kind of people Carlin Kennelly's were.

918
00:52:17,471 --> 00:52:20,032
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for your time and for telling

919
00:52:20,072 --> 00:52:22,832
Speaker 2: us that story in the book is just so insightful,

920
00:52:22,832 --> 00:52:24,951
Speaker 2: and it's exactly what you've done. There are two humans

921
00:52:25,192 --> 00:52:26,951
Speaker 2: at the center, and that's something that I think we

922
00:52:26,991 --> 00:52:29,392
Speaker 2: need to be reminded of a lot when it comes

923
00:52:29,431 --> 00:52:30,991
Speaker 2: to true crime. So thank you.

924
00:52:31,031 --> 00:52:31,792
Speaker 3: Thanks for having me.

925
00:52:33,551 --> 00:52:38,031
Speaker 9: Carlie pier Stevenson and daughter Candalise finally reunited after being

926
00:52:38,072 --> 00:52:42,432
Speaker 9: found murdered more than a thousand kilometers apart. Early this morning.

927
00:52:42,471 --> 00:52:45,032
Speaker 9: Their bodies were carried to hers at an Alice Springs

928
00:52:45,072 --> 00:52:48,272
Speaker 9: funeral home before being driven to the desert Life Church

929
00:52:48,392 --> 00:52:52,752
Speaker 9: for a private funeral. In attendance, family close friends are

930
00:52:52,832 --> 00:52:56,792
Speaker 9: representative of SA Police and the Acting Commissioner for Victims' Rights.

931
00:52:57,152 --> 00:52:59,752
Speaker 9: All of them were dressed in pink and blue, Carli

932
00:52:59,832 --> 00:53:01,632
Speaker 9: and Candalise's favorite colors.

933
00:53:06,352 --> 00:53:09,352
Speaker 2: You can buy Ava Benny Morrison's book The Lost Girls

934
00:53:09,431 --> 00:53:12,712
Speaker 2: in all good bookstores now or online via the link.

935
00:53:12,551 --> 00:53:13,352
Speaker 3: In our show notes.

936
00:53:14,152 --> 00:53:16,911
Speaker 2: For maps, photos and more details about the case of

937
00:53:16,991 --> 00:53:19,911
Speaker 2: Carlie and Candalise, check out the description in the notes

938
00:53:19,951 --> 00:53:23,591
Speaker 2: of this episode, or head to our website www. Dot

939
00:53:23,672 --> 00:53:29,031
Speaker 2: mamameya dot com dot au. True Crime Conversations is a

940
00:53:29,072 --> 00:53:33,312
Speaker 2: Mumameya podcast. Our senior producer and editor is Elise Cooper.

941
00:53:34,112 --> 00:53:36,551
Speaker 2: If you liked this episode, then be sure to leave

942
00:53:36,592 --> 00:53:40,512
Speaker 2: a review on Apple podcasts, Google Podcasts, or wherever you listen.