WEBVTT - Gus Walz, Emotional Policing & A Villain 0:00:10.287 --> 0:00:13.047 You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast. 0:00:13.727 --> 0:00:16.767 Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters 0:00:16.807 --> 0:00:23.607 that this podcast is recorded on Hello and welcome to 0:00:23.647 --> 0:00:26.327 Mama Mia out Loud. It's what women are actually talking 0:00:26.367 --> 0:00:29.167 about on Monday, the twenty sixth of August, and I'm 0:00:29.247 --> 0:00:30.567 Holly Wainwright, I'm. 0:00:30.407 --> 0:00:32.367 Mea Friedman, and I'm Jesse Stevens. 0:00:32.767 --> 0:00:35.727 On the show today, how a seventeen year old boy 0:00:35.887 --> 0:00:40.047 and some down shifting alpha blokes started a conversation about 0:00:40.047 --> 0:00:43.527 good men on the world stage. Also, as of today, 0:00:44.087 --> 0:00:47.367 you are legally allowed to ignore your boss after hours, 0:00:47.847 --> 0:00:49.527 or are you? That sound you can hear is me 0:00:49.647 --> 0:00:55.247 leaving all my group chats with Mia and she's going 0:00:55.327 --> 0:00:57.927 to steal herself for that. For that conversation. 0:00:58.047 --> 0:01:02.367 Hollywayen Wrights left the chat and the trick to solving 0:01:02.487 --> 0:01:05.647 all your clothes problems comes down apparently to a three 0:01:05.847 --> 0:01:06.767 word system. 0:01:06.967 --> 0:01:08.967 But first, Jesse Stevens. 0:01:09.607 --> 0:01:12.807 In case you missed it, Ben Affleck has been pictured 0:01:12.847 --> 0:01:16.647 with another woman amid his separation from Jennifer Lopez, and 0:01:16.807 --> 0:01:21.647 that woman is Kick Kennedy, the daughter of Robert F. Kennedy. 0:01:22.367 --> 0:01:24.607 Just a note on the Kennedy's there's a lot of them. 0:01:25.087 --> 0:01:28.567 Can someone I tried to google? But Kick Kennedy was 0:01:28.607 --> 0:01:31.607 a sister and a niece and a nephew and blah 0:01:31.607 --> 0:01:35.727 blah blah. So is my Kick. Yes, the niece of 0:01:35.767 --> 0:01:36.727 the JFK. 0:01:36.487 --> 0:01:41.567 One, Robert Kennedy Junior. His father was Robert Kennedy, who 0:01:41.607 --> 0:01:42.607 was the brother. 0:01:43.407 --> 0:01:47.247 Of I've missed a generation here. See there's a lot. 0:01:47.647 --> 0:01:50.927 He was assassinated as well as JFK being assassinated. 0:01:51.207 --> 0:01:54.247 But Kick's dad, as Maya says, is the one who 0:01:54.327 --> 0:01:56.047 was running for president until five minutes. 0:01:56.087 --> 0:01:58.527 It was a very big weekend for the that part 0:01:58.567 --> 0:01:59.687 of the Kennedy family. 0:01:59.767 --> 0:02:02.967 The backup, back up, Ben has moved on so quickly. 0:02:03.927 --> 0:02:07.287 This is correct, it's this scoreless gossip. Yes it is. 0:02:07.567 --> 0:02:10.207 Kick Kennedy is thirty six years old. She's been pictured 0:02:10.247 --> 0:02:12.407 with fifty two year old Ben at the Polo Lounge 0:02:12.407 --> 0:02:15.527 at the Beverly Hills Hotel, as well as at other 0:02:15.807 --> 0:02:20.247 hotspots hotspots. Holly discuss it's probably not. 0:02:20.167 --> 0:02:25.567 True, but I'm here for it's it's very random because 0:02:25.607 --> 0:02:25.967 I read it. 0:02:25.967 --> 0:02:28.447 Well, that's true, And often the more random the story, 0:02:28.487 --> 0:02:31.047 the more real it is. And again, out loud as 0:02:31.087 --> 0:02:33.407 we know this is scurrilous gossip, but we also know 0:02:33.527 --> 0:02:35.527 you're invested in the benefit divorce, so we want to 0:02:35.607 --> 0:02:36.967 keep you up to date because you wouldn't want to 0:02:36.967 --> 0:02:37.447 miss anything. 0:02:37.487 --> 0:02:38.567 Yeah, exactly, wouldn't want to. 0:02:38.527 --> 0:02:41.367 Miss anthy you mean us. 0:02:41.487 --> 0:02:46.807 But also it maybe explains the timing of the divorce 0:02:46.887 --> 0:02:49.767 filing because, as we discussed last week, they've been separated 0:02:49.807 --> 0:02:52.247 for a while. They've been working out whether or not 0:02:52.287 --> 0:02:54.287 to push the button, pull the trigger, whatever you want 0:02:54.287 --> 0:02:58.047 to call it. And maybe the fact that Ben is 0:02:58.087 --> 0:03:01.887 hanging around with someone new it seems like a push 0:03:01.967 --> 0:03:02.447 the trigger. 0:03:02.567 --> 0:03:05.047 No, incorrect, You've got the timing wrong. What's happened is 0:03:05.047 --> 0:03:07.727 that Jlo has filed for divorce, which we all said 0:03:07.767 --> 0:03:09.887 was a bit of a power move. He kind of 0:03:10.047 --> 0:03:13.487 played her cards when she filed for the separation. Now 0:03:13.487 --> 0:03:16.727 it was Ben's move, and this is Ben's move. It 0:03:16.767 --> 0:03:19.287 was ball in his court and he went, I've got kick, 0:03:19.607 --> 0:03:22.407 who is even though I don't fully understand the family 0:03:22.447 --> 0:03:25.527 tree an American institution, I'm hanging out with thirty six 0:03:25.647 --> 0:03:26.087 year old. 0:03:26.007 --> 0:03:30.407 Kick Another American institution, Jennifer Lopezi, the American institution. So 0:03:30.527 --> 0:03:34.207 you think divorce filing. Wednesday, Ben got out his little 0:03:34.247 --> 0:03:36.327 black book and went who could I go on a 0:03:36.407 --> 0:03:38.847 high profile date with? To the poet last tonight? 0:03:38.967 --> 0:03:40.607 And the reason I want to talk about this is 0:03:40.647 --> 0:03:43.647 because of how relatable it is because I once broke 0:03:43.727 --> 0:03:45.687 up with someone. Well I think he broke up with me, 0:03:45.767 --> 0:03:48.167 but anyway, that doesn't matter. And then I went on 0:03:48.207 --> 0:03:50.767 Instagram and he posted a picture of him with some 0:03:51.287 --> 0:03:54.247 woman Where did she come from? At the end of 0:03:54.327 --> 0:03:57.927 a run which was very passag because I can't run, 0:03:58.087 --> 0:04:00.047 so it was like a very I went for a 0:04:00.127 --> 0:04:02.847 run with this beautiful who can woman who's got rosy 0:04:02.887 --> 0:04:06.727 cheeks from exerting herself. And when I saw that, I 0:04:06.767 --> 0:04:08.807 went I know how Ja Loo feels because I have 0:04:08.887 --> 0:04:11.007 also had to have a look at the new woman. 0:04:11.127 --> 0:04:12.847 Had they gone for rhinal had they just had. 0:04:12.687 --> 0:04:15.087 Sex, Maybe they'd had sex, but they made it look 0:04:15.127 --> 0:04:17.327 like they were doing very something, very wholesome on a Saturday, 0:04:17.367 --> 0:04:19.047 and it made me feel bad. And I think that 0:04:19.127 --> 0:04:26.967 j Loo is annoyed today. Help Gosh and Gwen. 0:04:27.567 --> 0:04:30.407 You are my empire world and I love you. 0:04:31.447 --> 0:04:35.727 Last week in America was all about Kamala Harris in 0:04:35.807 --> 0:04:38.887 the minds of delusional small el liberals like me everywhere. 0:04:38.927 --> 0:04:41.247 We have a new queen and she wears a navy 0:04:41.287 --> 0:04:43.047 pantsuit with a pussy bow shirt. 0:04:43.407 --> 0:04:44.727 It's a pussy bow shirt back. 0:04:44.927 --> 0:04:48.567 Yes, I know this isn't important louds for her big 0:04:48.607 --> 0:04:49.767 speech on Friday. 0:04:49.927 --> 0:04:50.687 It's important. 0:04:50.847 --> 0:04:54.207 She wore a very like, understated but very classy. I 0:04:54.247 --> 0:04:58.687 wouldn't you agree me, Chloe suit, which is fancy A 0:04:58.687 --> 0:05:04.607 class designer pantsuit fitted pussy bow shirt. Excellent. Anyway, It 0:05:04.647 --> 0:05:07.367 was the DNC, the Democratic National Convention, as we discussed 0:05:07.367 --> 0:05:10.087 briefly last week, and it dominated did the global news 0:05:10.167 --> 0:05:12.047 cycle for a week, as it was designed to do. 0:05:12.687 --> 0:05:16.367 There were quite a few storylines. There were impassioned talks 0:05:16.407 --> 0:05:19.727 about abortion from survivors of sexual abuse, about gun violence 0:05:19.727 --> 0:05:23.607 from survivors of shootings. There were anti war protesters outside. 0:05:23.967 --> 0:05:27.487 There was the much admired speeches from Michelle Obama, Oprah Winfrey, 0:05:27.567 --> 0:05:30.487 Hillary Clinton, and of course Kamala Harris herself. But I 0:05:30.607 --> 0:05:33.607 want to talk about blokes, not about all those amazing women, 0:05:34.327 --> 0:05:37.007 because of course I do, because whether or not you 0:05:37.047 --> 0:05:39.207 give U stuff about American politics, and I know quite 0:05:39.247 --> 0:05:41.047 a lot of you listening do not there is something 0:05:41.207 --> 0:05:46.727 very interesting bubbling along here about masculinity and celebrations of 0:05:46.767 --> 0:05:50.207 a different kind of masculinity that was on big display 0:05:50.367 --> 0:05:54.167 last week, and it's in very stark opposition to Trump's 0:05:54.847 --> 0:05:59.367 very basic man strong, big, strong man, face down, scary 0:05:59.407 --> 0:06:00.447 of the strong men act. 0:06:00.807 --> 0:06:01.047 Right. 0:06:01.887 --> 0:06:04.847 Obviously, there's the subtext here that every powerful man who 0:06:04.927 --> 0:06:08.167 took the stage over those four days was in support 0:06:08.207 --> 0:06:13.407 of a powerful woman. But also those men showing a human, 0:06:13.567 --> 0:06:17.167 emotional and family side seemed to be very high on 0:06:17.207 --> 0:06:19.407 the priority scale of what they were there to do. 0:06:20.247 --> 0:06:23.287 There was Kamala's husband, Doug em Hoff, who was beautifully 0:06:23.287 --> 0:06:26.447 introduced by a very emotional video by his son. Now 0:06:26.527 --> 0:06:30.607 Doug is a hyper successful lawyer entertainment lawyer in Los 0:06:30.607 --> 0:06:34.127 Angeles who quit his regular job to support Kamala as 0:06:34.247 --> 0:06:36.847 VP and now to get her elected. And her talk 0:06:36.887 --> 0:06:39.047 he gave, and the pride and the strength he shows 0:06:39.047 --> 0:06:41.927 at being the man behind the woman is a vibe 0:06:42.247 --> 0:06:45.327 he will be, obviously if she is elected, the first 0:06:46.007 --> 0:06:48.767 first gentleman and the last time a woman ran. Obviously, 0:06:48.847 --> 0:06:51.207 her first gentleman had been the president. So this is 0:06:51.247 --> 0:06:53.487 an entirely new vibe that was. 0:06:53.527 --> 0:06:56.847 Currently the second gentleman, because she's the vice president. 0:06:56.487 --> 0:06:58.927 And that's the job. Apparently it is a job, not 0:06:58.967 --> 0:07:01.407 a paid one. And then there was of course Tim Waltz, 0:07:01.647 --> 0:07:06.087 who's Harris's nice guy running mate, and his excellent mind 0:07:06.127 --> 0:07:08.607 your own goddamn business speech, which is what he's very 0:07:08.607 --> 0:07:12.967 good at doing. Is like where I'm from in the Midwest, 0:07:13.167 --> 0:07:15.487 we stay out of each other's bedrooms. Like he's really 0:07:15.527 --> 0:07:19.127 good at that stuff. But his speech was almost overshadowed 0:07:19.127 --> 0:07:22.727 by the attendants of his young son Gus. Now Gus 0:07:22.807 --> 0:07:25.047 was in the stands watching his dad speak, along with 0:07:25.127 --> 0:07:28.647 his mum, Gwen and his sister Hope. Gus Waltz, according 0:07:28.647 --> 0:07:31.327 to his parents, has a non verbal learning disorder in 0:07:31.367 --> 0:07:35.887 addition to an anxiety disorder and ADHD. In this case, 0:07:35.967 --> 0:07:39.087 a non verbal disorder is not the same as non speaking. 0:07:39.567 --> 0:07:42.247 It's a disorder that impacts the way that kids absorb 0:07:42.287 --> 0:07:45.687 and utilize information. But there are lots of interventions you 0:07:45.727 --> 0:07:48.207 can have and it doesn't mean that Gus can't talk 0:07:48.247 --> 0:07:50.767 and Gus drives and all of those things. Tim and 0:07:50.807 --> 0:07:53.887 Gwen have spoken about it several times, and they definitely 0:07:53.927 --> 0:07:58.807 refer to him as neurodivergent and his very enthusiastic response 0:07:58.847 --> 0:08:02.327 to his dad led some people to mock him. Imagine 0:08:02.487 --> 0:08:04.567 being that awful, But anyway. 0:08:04.487 --> 0:08:08.767 Are you serious, because all I've seen is love for him. 0:08:09.087 --> 0:08:11.927 He became quite iconic quite quickly because when I saw it, 0:08:12.447 --> 0:08:15.567 I saw this young man getting very emotional tears in 0:08:15.567 --> 0:08:18.167 his eyes, getting up and saying, that's my dad, that's 0:08:18.247 --> 0:08:20.967 my dad, and this is awful. But I thought at 0:08:21.007 --> 0:08:24.847 the time, Oh no, that kid's going to cop it 0:08:24.887 --> 0:08:27.767 at school and he's just been caught up in the moment. 0:08:28.047 --> 0:08:31.847 That's before I learned that he was neurodivergent and had 0:08:31.887 --> 0:08:34.847 some challenges in his life, and then it made more 0:08:34.887 --> 0:08:38.127 sense to me. But have some people been horrible to him? 0:08:38.367 --> 0:08:39.967 So I'm going to play you a tiny bit of 0:08:39.967 --> 0:08:44.247 a TikTok for an example. So there's a famous conservative 0:08:44.287 --> 0:08:48.287 commentator called Ann Coulter. She has written book about Donald 0:08:48.287 --> 0:08:50.327 Trump and all the rest of it, and she immediately 0:08:50.487 --> 0:08:53.167 shared a shot of Gus Waltz along with the line 0:08:53.647 --> 0:08:56.847 talk about weird, which was obviously in response to the 0:08:56.887 --> 0:08:59.407 fact that Tim Waltz has coined the term weird for 0:08:59.447 --> 0:09:03.327 the religious conservatives on the Republican side. Anyway, here's a 0:09:03.327 --> 0:09:05.207 little TikTok by somebody responding to that. 0:09:05.647 --> 0:09:05.927 Y'all. 0:09:06.007 --> 0:09:07.887 I'm recording on the very last day of the Democratic 0:09:07.967 --> 0:09:10.047 National Convention here in Chicago, Illinois, and I feel like 0:09:10.087 --> 0:09:14.087 the entire week I've been very demure, very mindful, very cutesy. 0:09:14.167 --> 0:09:16.647 But ever since I saw Ian Coulter say this about 0:09:16.647 --> 0:09:19.607 Tim Walls's son who was disabled, I'm gonna say, fuck 0:09:19.647 --> 0:09:20.887 that shit, it's all out of the window. 0:09:21.367 --> 0:09:25.367 And then she went on to drag hard culture into 0:09:25.407 --> 0:09:28.727 the coach and say, never mind, we go Hi, We're 0:09:28.767 --> 0:09:31.007 dragging everybody down into hell with us now. So it 0:09:31.087 --> 0:09:33.887 pissed a lot of people off, but equally, as you say, 0:09:33.967 --> 0:09:37.007 Mia Gos kind of became iconic, and Tim Waltz drew 0:09:37.047 --> 0:09:40.287 an enormous amount of praise, which is also weird when 0:09:40.367 --> 0:09:43.447 you think about it, for actively loving his family, which 0:09:43.527 --> 0:09:45.527 kind of shows you how low the bar is here. 0:09:45.647 --> 0:09:48.327 Well, compare and contrast it with the other model of 0:09:48.367 --> 0:09:52.407 masculinity and family that we're seeing, which is the big 0:09:52.447 --> 0:09:56.367 difference between the Republican National Convention and the Democratic National Convention. 0:09:57.327 --> 0:10:00.247 It's so clear, like when you see the Trump family 0:10:00.327 --> 0:10:03.927 on stage, like Milania has got a contract. She won't 0:10:03.927 --> 0:10:07.527 even look at him, will barely touch his hand, like 0:10:07.687 --> 0:10:10.407 there's not a lot of love in that family. Donald 0:10:10.447 --> 0:10:14.007 Trump never speaks about his kids in any way except 0:10:14.007 --> 0:10:16.567 to say his daughter's got good tits and his youngest 0:10:16.567 --> 0:10:17.447 son's really tall. 0:10:17.527 --> 0:10:20.007 Are you maligning what he said. I don't think he 0:10:20.047 --> 0:10:21.727 said that she had good tits. I think he said 0:10:21.727 --> 0:10:25.927 he would not mind sleeping with her. Oh sorry, I 0:10:26.287 --> 0:10:28.007 have also misrepresented Trump. 0:10:28.167 --> 0:10:32.407 So I think it's interesting these contrasting because Tim Walls, 0:10:32.527 --> 0:10:34.607 he didn't expect to be vice president, right, He's not 0:10:34.687 --> 0:10:37.447 like I've been waiting for this. He got the call 0:10:37.647 --> 0:10:41.287 from the bench pretty unexpectedly two weeks after he came 0:10:41.287 --> 0:10:43.527 out and had this amazing cut through by the weird comment, 0:10:44.087 --> 0:10:47.767 And so he's been visibly moved by the big crowds, 0:10:47.927 --> 0:10:50.807 by the reception, by the people chanting coach, coach, coach. 0:10:51.447 --> 0:10:54.687 We've seen I think a degree of emotional intelligence, not 0:10:54.767 --> 0:10:58.607 just from Gus Walls, who I think has been emblematic 0:10:58.647 --> 0:11:03.007 of something, but this idea that men can not just 0:11:03.647 --> 0:11:06.647 get emotional, but also that they can respect women, that 0:11:06.687 --> 0:11:08.807 they can fight for the rights of women, and that 0:11:08.807 --> 0:11:11.487 the be able to have control over their own bodies, 0:11:11.567 --> 0:11:14.927 and that idea of contrasted with Donald Trump, which is 0:11:14.967 --> 0:11:19.127 this cruel, what I would call toxic masculinity, which is 0:11:19.167 --> 0:11:23.327 about mocking people, being cruel to people, being very sort 0:11:23.327 --> 0:11:27.447 of thrusting and aggressive, and then JD Vance, which is 0:11:27.487 --> 0:11:32.607 about oppressing women and being really malevolent and wanting to 0:11:32.647 --> 0:11:36.207 wind the clock back for women. That type of masculinity. 0:11:36.367 --> 0:11:41.007 I've heard Tim Waltz's masculinity described as tonic masculinity as 0:11:41.047 --> 0:11:46.087 sort of the opposite to toxic. And what's so refreshing 0:11:46.127 --> 0:11:49.487 about it is that it is still a vision of masculinity. 0:11:49.527 --> 0:11:52.167 It's not effeminate. And this is what I think the 0:11:52.167 --> 0:11:54.367 Republicans have set it up, that it's like we are 0:11:54.487 --> 0:11:56.687 losing what it is to be a man. Tim Wiltz 0:11:56.767 --> 0:11:57.127 is a man. 0:11:57.607 --> 0:12:00.207 He's still who introduced Tim Wells at the convention, a 0:12:00.287 --> 0:12:03.767 whole bunch of football players who he'd coached. And what's 0:12:03.767 --> 0:12:06.007 so interesting about his time as a football coach is 0:12:06.047 --> 0:12:08.527 that the kids at the school where he was working, 0:12:08.887 --> 0:12:11.887 some of the queer kids, had been bullied and harassed. 0:12:12.247 --> 0:12:15.007 He enlisted all the young men on his football team 0:12:15.487 --> 0:12:19.487 to protect them and to stand between bullies and these guys, 0:12:19.567 --> 0:12:21.887 and I mean that is a new model. 0:12:21.967 --> 0:12:25.167 It's sort of the definition of inspiring. And the other 0:12:25.207 --> 0:12:27.767 thing that's refreshing is that all of us have Tim 0:12:27.807 --> 0:12:30.367 Wlson's in our life, and it's been really difficult to 0:12:30.447 --> 0:12:34.607 describe this healthy masculinity that exists. And maybe Tim walsall 0:12:34.687 --> 0:12:37.927 fix your car and dougs and yeah, exactly right. They 0:12:38.607 --> 0:12:42.087 do see themselves as fathers and husbands and all of 0:12:42.127 --> 0:12:47.007 those things, but it doesn't rely on the oppression of women. 0:12:47.207 --> 0:12:50.447 They're protective without being controlling. Controlling. 0:12:50.567 --> 0:12:53.407 Yeah, they seem to like all the people on all 0:12:53.447 --> 0:12:55.567 the very long list of impressive men who stood up 0:12:55.607 --> 0:12:58.407 and spoke at that that none of them were threatened 0:12:58.847 --> 0:13:00.607 by the powerful females in their lives, or at least 0:13:00.647 --> 0:13:02.687 it seemed that way. But Jesse, I want to ask you, 0:13:03.367 --> 0:13:06.407 is the fact that everybody's so excited about the fact 0:13:06.447 --> 0:13:09.487 that Tim Waltz appears to it like his family. It's 0:13:09.527 --> 0:13:11.407 like a little bit table steakes. 0:13:11.727 --> 0:13:13.367 Most people like their families. 0:13:13.567 --> 0:13:17.607 And also hasn't family values always belong to the right right, 0:13:17.647 --> 0:13:19.927 So what we're seeing is it being reclaimed by the left. 0:13:20.407 --> 0:13:24.007 But also it's kind of hilarious that people might be 0:13:24.007 --> 0:13:24.847 surprised by that. 0:13:25.207 --> 0:13:29.447 The irony I think is that the Republican convention talked 0:13:29.487 --> 0:13:33.087 a lot about families, but at the Democratic Convention, we 0:13:33.327 --> 0:13:35.727 saw a lot of families. And that's the difference. It's like, 0:13:35.767 --> 0:13:38.607 show don't Tell. In all the yelling about abortion and 0:13:38.607 --> 0:13:40.767 contraception and all of that that's been done, and the 0:13:40.847 --> 0:13:43.967 JD vance and the trump of it all, I keep thinking. 0:13:44.087 --> 0:13:48.287 I think in that same Republican image of masculinity is 0:13:48.407 --> 0:13:52.487 the elon Musks who have a thousand children that they 0:13:52.567 --> 0:13:56.247 don't spend any time with, and it's because they believe 0:13:56.287 --> 0:13:59.887 that the world needs more children or whatever. White children, yes, exactly, 0:14:00.847 --> 0:14:06.847 but with tim to actually see a family that loved 0:14:06.887 --> 0:14:10.567 each other and to see that express I think the 0:14:11.127 --> 0:14:16.087 neurodivergent element of this is really important. And everyone had 0:14:16.127 --> 0:14:18.487 someone in their lives who is neurodivergent. Everyone that is 0:14:18.567 --> 0:14:24.167 not represented in the mainstream with politics, with conventions, with elections, 0:14:24.207 --> 0:14:29.127 it is so contrived, it is so performative. So to 0:14:29.287 --> 0:14:32.847 see a the word authentic is overused, but there was 0:14:33.007 --> 0:14:38.687 nothing preempted about that response. It was so pure that 0:14:38.687 --> 0:14:40.327 that's why everyone leaned into it. 0:14:40.607 --> 0:14:43.087 You know what, I loved about it. I can't understand 0:14:43.167 --> 0:14:47.327 the attacks, Like I just don't understand having a mind 0:14:47.407 --> 0:14:51.047 that closed that you would not think that a Gus 0:14:51.047 --> 0:14:54.487 Waltz is not like a wonderful gift to have in 0:14:54.527 --> 0:14:57.327 your family. But also it would have been a big 0:14:57.367 --> 0:15:01.687 decision for Gwen and Tim to have Gos at that event, 0:15:02.287 --> 0:15:04.607 not that he has been in any way sheltered or 0:15:04.807 --> 0:15:07.007 like Tim Wells has spoken about Gus before, he's very 0:15:07.007 --> 0:15:10.567 proud of his family, He's relatively po but that is 0:15:10.567 --> 0:15:13.367 a level of attention that is hard for any of 0:15:13.447 --> 0:15:17.007 us to comprehend. And what I particularly liked about it 0:15:17.047 --> 0:15:18.687 is they would have known that Gus was going to 0:15:18.727 --> 0:15:21.207 react in an excited way in the way that he did. 0:15:21.247 --> 0:15:24.527 To an extent, no one was trying to like shush him, 0:15:24.967 --> 0:15:28.727 make him sit down, like be smaller, be quiet, be less, 0:15:28.887 --> 0:15:31.687 like Hope and Gwen were barely looking at him, you 0:15:31.767 --> 0:15:33.487 know what I mean. They were looking at Tim on 0:15:33.527 --> 0:15:35.407 the stage, support him for his big moment, like it 0:15:35.447 --> 0:15:38.047 was just a very natural family moment. But it would 0:15:38.087 --> 0:15:42.447 have taken some balls to do, because nothing happens on 0:15:42.527 --> 0:15:46.087 that kind of stage without the nth degree of stage management. 0:15:46.127 --> 0:15:47.687 Do you know what I mean, And it was really 0:15:47.807 --> 0:15:49.727 I just loved that that that was there. 0:15:49.927 --> 0:15:52.567 I agree, and that was one element they couldn't control, 0:15:52.607 --> 0:15:55.007 and to watch that none of them were trying to 0:15:55.087 --> 0:15:56.607 suggest that he sit down, and it would have just 0:15:56.647 --> 0:15:59.687 been in a sense of protection for him. But I 0:15:59.767 --> 0:16:02.527 also think that we're used to a narrative, even though 0:16:02.527 --> 0:16:05.127 we we think we've moved past it, that to have 0:16:05.167 --> 0:16:07.567 a child with any sort of disability or any sort 0:16:07.567 --> 0:16:10.567 of difference is a tragedy, is something that we're fed 0:16:10.607 --> 0:16:14.847 and that it makes your life harder, and that I 0:16:14.887 --> 0:16:18.127 don't know, the love is different, but and that it's 0:16:18.127 --> 0:16:20.567 something to be hidden, and that it's embarrassed. Yes, But 0:16:20.727 --> 0:16:23.367 for him, the sentence that tim Oltz said before his 0:16:23.447 --> 0:16:26.327 son said that's my dad is you are my entire 0:16:26.367 --> 0:16:29.047 world and I love you. About his family, there was 0:16:29.087 --> 0:16:31.327 no whiffs, there was no butts, there was no reference 0:16:31.407 --> 0:16:35.727 to the fact that his son was neurodivergent. That was 0:16:35.767 --> 0:16:39.007 a representation you don't see very often, just untridled. 0:16:39.287 --> 0:16:42.247 I see it in your family, you know. It reminded 0:16:42.287 --> 0:16:44.607 me so much of the way your family are, with 0:16:45.167 --> 0:16:49.047 your cousin Simon and your aunt Michelle. This sounds so obvious, 0:16:49.087 --> 0:16:53.807 but by treating people without kid gloves and just being 0:16:53.847 --> 0:16:57.967 around them publicly and not making a big deal, you 0:16:58.007 --> 0:17:01.247 give them such dignity to just be themselves. What you 0:17:01.287 --> 0:17:03.287 said whole is so true. They weren't trying to make 0:17:03.367 --> 0:17:05.167 him smaller. They weren't trying to make him conform. They 0:17:05.167 --> 0:17:06.807 weren't trying to make him be in a box of 0:17:06.847 --> 0:17:10.527 what you should be. And to me, this idea of 0:17:10.567 --> 0:17:14.407 freedom which the Democratic Party is trying to harness, the 0:17:14.487 --> 0:17:18.087 word freedom, it's a very beautiful thing and it's being 0:17:18.327 --> 0:17:21.847 shown in all these different ways. And back to family, 0:17:22.207 --> 0:17:24.367 I think that the other thing that was really notable 0:17:24.607 --> 0:17:27.927 is Kamala Harris is in a blended family. She has 0:17:28.007 --> 0:17:31.807 two step kids who are adults, and they were there. 0:17:32.087 --> 0:17:36.487 And the other person who just looked incredibly moved and happy, 0:17:36.527 --> 0:17:38.327 who I couldn't take my eyes off in her speech, 0:17:38.327 --> 0:17:41.007 she's her stepdaughter, Ella, who was in the glasses and 0:17:41.127 --> 0:17:44.687 was wearing that amazing ball gown. She's very cool and 0:17:44.767 --> 0:17:46.447 she was next to her dad, and they all came 0:17:46.487 --> 0:17:48.687 on the stage afterwards. And I don't know if you 0:17:48.727 --> 0:17:52.687 saw many of the images from the Republican Convention, but 0:17:53.327 --> 0:17:54.927 when you said at the beginning, hohole, I don't know 0:17:54.967 --> 0:17:57.887 why we're talking about what they're wearing. It is actually 0:17:57.927 --> 0:18:01.487 really important what politicians wear because they do send messages. 0:18:01.527 --> 0:18:03.367 Whether we like it or not. We live in a 0:18:03.447 --> 0:18:06.767 visual world. People do send messages with their clothes in 0:18:06.807 --> 0:18:09.127 the same way that royals do, right, particularly people who 0:18:09.327 --> 0:18:11.607 might not speak freely. And if you looked at the 0:18:11.847 --> 0:18:17.727 esthetics of the Republican Convention, it was all women who 0:18:17.887 --> 0:18:21.127 looked like I'm going to say fembots, a highly surgery, 0:18:21.687 --> 0:18:25.487 had this big hair, tight dresses, sky high heels, and 0:18:25.887 --> 0:18:28.167 there's nothing wrong with that look. But when every woman 0:18:28.207 --> 0:18:32.047 on the stage looks the same like a Fox News 0:18:32.087 --> 0:18:37.207 female newsreader, that makes me feel nervous. That has power 0:18:37.287 --> 0:18:41.487 in saying, this is what we believe women should be 0:18:41.807 --> 0:18:45.167 and what women should look like, and this idea of 0:18:45.327 --> 0:18:47.527 our idea about women is that they are a threash. 0:18:47.807 --> 0:18:50.847 They need to be an ornament, and they need to 0:18:50.847 --> 0:18:52.927 be controlled by taking away their rights. 0:18:53.047 --> 0:18:55.807 The best commentary I've been hearing about the US election 0:18:55.847 --> 0:18:58.607 has been from Ezra Kleine. I recommend listening to Ezra 0:18:58.687 --> 0:19:01.087 Klein at the moment. He's just on fire. But he 0:19:01.207 --> 0:19:03.527 said that every election, if you look back, it's about 0:19:03.527 --> 0:19:07.367 one issue, and that this election is about gender. You 0:19:07.407 --> 0:19:10.887 look at abortion, and that's obvious on the agenda. But 0:19:11.367 --> 0:19:13.607 for him, he was like, no, no, no, this is about 0:19:13.607 --> 0:19:17.487 masculinity and different ways in which it's manifesting. So he 0:19:17.647 --> 0:19:20.487 was saying that you've got the Tim Waltz, and he 0:19:20.567 --> 0:19:24.767 actually dissected the differences in the masculinity between Trump and JD. Vance. 0:19:24.967 --> 0:19:28.207 In Donald Trump and in Tim Walls, you have two 0:19:28.567 --> 0:19:33.927 very different but very explicit archetypes visions of what it 0:19:33.967 --> 0:19:36.807 means to be a man. Trump's pitch is built on 0:19:37.767 --> 0:19:41.127 I would call it an almost cartoonish overperformance of masculinity, 0:19:41.327 --> 0:19:44.447 which is aimed at alienated young men. I mean, having 0:19:44.567 --> 0:19:47.647 Hulk Hogan and the head of the UFC on your 0:19:47.767 --> 0:19:50.767 night at the convention really puts a sharp point on that. 0:19:51.647 --> 0:19:55.127 But in Tim Walls, Democrats have found their own version 0:19:55.287 --> 0:19:59.687 of a male archetype. A football coach, a soldier, a 0:19:59.727 --> 0:20:03.127 guy who will fix your car, but also an ally, 0:20:03.487 --> 0:20:06.287 a man comfortable being in the role of supporting women, 0:20:06.647 --> 0:20:10.487 a man unthreatened by social change, a man even excited 0:20:10.527 --> 0:20:10.927 by it. 0:20:11.087 --> 0:20:16.207 Because they're both responses to this underground rejection of feminism 0:20:16.447 --> 0:20:20.047 that the Andrew tates that the younger generations are going 0:20:20.087 --> 0:20:21.327 feminism has threatened us. 0:20:21.367 --> 0:20:24.047 It's a real clap back to the or a pushback 0:20:24.127 --> 0:20:26.967 against the way Hillary Clinton ran and her idea of 0:20:27.087 --> 0:20:30.447 I'm with her glass ceiling. I agree. I loved what 0:20:30.567 --> 0:20:31.447 Ezra Klin said. 0:20:31.647 --> 0:20:34.167 I love it. But again, I'm just gonna throw it 0:20:34.207 --> 0:20:39.207 in there. Low bar man has to think woman should 0:20:39.207 --> 0:20:41.967 be allowed to have a job and seem to be 0:20:42.007 --> 0:20:44.007 interested in his children and know their names. 0:20:44.687 --> 0:20:47.727 But I love guys. But that's what's been so crazy 0:20:47.767 --> 0:20:50.487 about the last ten years, if for anyone who's been 0:20:50.487 --> 0:20:52.767 following American politics, and how can you not, because you've 0:20:52.807 --> 0:20:54.887 got a man who says I'm going to grab her 0:20:54.887 --> 0:20:56.607 by the pussy and he is elected. 0:20:56.887 --> 0:20:59.607 I agree, and I loved like Doug's speech made me 0:20:59.687 --> 0:21:02.767 so happy, And I love the confidence and joy that 0:21:02.847 --> 0:21:05.287 he carries with him in the role of being like 0:21:06.007 --> 0:21:09.367