WEBVTT - Radical Irwin Parenting, Bluey's Glow-Up & The Lindsay Clancy Trial 0:00:04.080 --> 0:00:06.680 Welcome to Parenting out Loud, the podcast of parents who 0:00:06.720 --> 0:00:09.440 don't always listen to parenting podcasts. We like to take 0:00:09.440 --> 0:00:12.120 a look at the news, trends and culture and what 0:00:12.200 --> 0:00:13.399 parents are thinking about. 0:00:13.600 --> 0:00:17.200 I'm Monique Bowley, I'm Amelia Lester and I'm Stacy Kicks 0:00:17.360 --> 0:00:20.720 and coming off on today's show, it's being described as 0:00:20.800 --> 0:00:23.319 the saddest murder case in the world. So why is 0:00:23.480 --> 0:00:25.159 every mother you know obsessed with it? 0:00:26.680 --> 0:00:30.560 I've got the case for radical Irwin parenting. I think 0:00:30.600 --> 0:00:35.479 Australia's top parenting expert is hiding in plain sight in 0:00:35.520 --> 0:00:36.400 a Safari suit. 0:00:36.479 --> 0:00:39.559 Actually, And I'm going to tell you about the podcast 0:00:39.600 --> 0:00:41.200 that I put on when my kids in the bath 0:00:41.280 --> 0:00:43.120 and I'm sitting on the toilet seat next to them 0:00:43.159 --> 0:00:44.600 and we're just having a little gab at the end 0:00:44.600 --> 0:00:45.000 of the day. 0:00:45.280 --> 0:00:46.360 I love it. Can't wait. 0:00:47.120 --> 0:00:50.159 But first, Bluie's got a new look and not everyone 0:00:50.280 --> 0:00:53.680 is pleased about it. A trailer for the new Bluey movie, 0:00:53.720 --> 0:00:55.840 which is being made by Disney and released a year 0:00:55.840 --> 0:00:58.560 from now in August twenty twenty seven, just came out 0:00:59.080 --> 0:01:02.320 and the animation is quite different from the TV show. 0:01:02.360 --> 0:01:06.200 It looks quite different the trailer is very simple. It's 0:01:06.240 --> 0:01:09.080 Bluey and Bingo playing keep it uppy with an iconic 0:01:09.120 --> 0:01:11.720 red balloon, of course. But what struck me about it 0:01:11.800 --> 0:01:14.920 is that looks very similar to say, a Toy Story. 0:01:14.959 --> 0:01:18.040 And that's because rather than being in that flat two 0:01:18.240 --> 0:01:20.160 D the Healer. 0:01:19.920 --> 0:01:21.119 Family, and now in more of. 0:01:21.080 --> 0:01:24.319 A three D, more kind of realistic if you can 0:01:24.360 --> 0:01:27.440 be a family of dogs talking, I've had more realistic universe. 0:01:27.800 --> 0:01:31.520 It's the Hollywood glow up. Yeah, Louie, Yes, yes, yeah. 0:01:31.760 --> 0:01:34.240 And while lots of people are very excited for that 0:01:34.319 --> 0:01:40.360 sort of more more dimensional image, some are having a 0:01:40.360 --> 0:01:42.240 bit of a hard time with it, so I think 0:01:42.280 --> 0:01:48.120 to get ahead of it. Louie's creator Jo Brahm, Yeah yeah, 0:01:48.840 --> 0:01:51.880 was talking about why they made that shift this week. 0:01:53.600 --> 0:01:55.720 The first short film I ever made in my third 0:01:55.760 --> 0:01:57.360 year of our college was in three D. 0:01:57.800 --> 0:01:58.360 It brought the. 0:01:58.280 --> 0:02:00.720 House down at our screening, and I just thought, I'm 0:02:00.720 --> 0:02:02.600 going to be a three D animator. And then I 0:02:02.640 --> 0:02:05.280 spent the rest of my career in two D hand drawn, 0:02:05.400 --> 0:02:07.200 and I love two D and I love hand drawn, 0:02:07.400 --> 0:02:09.760 but three D was a thing. And at the same 0:02:09.760 --> 0:02:12.080 time as I made that film, Toy Story was coming 0:02:12.120 --> 0:02:15.440 out and it felt like this is my generation of animation. 0:02:16.000 --> 0:02:18.200 We're always striving to get a beauty of nature in 0:02:18.240 --> 0:02:21.440 the show, and I wanted to have every tool available 0:02:21.480 --> 0:02:24.560 to capture a beautiful blade of grass and light rays 0:02:24.600 --> 0:02:27.239 and all that. And I wanted kids to be able 0:02:27.280 --> 0:02:29.919 to feel like they could reach in and give these 0:02:29.919 --> 0:02:32.160 little dogs a scratch on their furry heads. 0:02:32.560 --> 0:02:35.440 Now that's obviously so cute, and we love Joe and 0:02:35.960 --> 0:02:38.799 his Australian invention of Bluie. That's made us also proud. 0:02:38.960 --> 0:02:40.760 Even the background music maybe, Oh. 0:02:40.760 --> 0:02:43.240 Absolutely, You've got to bring your tisses to the movie. 0:02:43.520 --> 0:02:45.880 And I'm so excited for the movie. But I find 0:02:46.200 --> 0:02:48.839 what's interesting about this is that Joe Bram has been 0:02:48.919 --> 0:02:52.960 wrestling with fame and success in front of us for 0:02:53.000 --> 0:02:56.880 so long now. Because that final episode of Blue about 0:02:56.919 --> 0:02:59.440 whether or not they're going to move, It's really about 0:02:59.560 --> 0:03:02.240 Joe debating am I ready for the big time? 0:03:02.320 --> 0:03:03.919 Am I ready to go to Hollywood? 0:03:04.480 --> 0:03:08.520 And I love how he's kind of being open with 0:03:08.639 --> 0:03:11.480 us in that way through his art. 0:03:11.880 --> 0:03:14.840 Oh my god, I've never thought about that before. What 0:03:14.880 --> 0:03:16.760 other messages are you getting from Louis? 0:03:17.360 --> 0:03:22.320 That final episode was a meditation on whether or not 0:03:22.800 --> 0:03:26.000 he could accept the success and the accolades and the 0:03:26.000 --> 0:03:28.400 big time and all the demands that that were put 0:03:28.440 --> 0:03:30.079 on him. Yes, it would bring him more money, it 0:03:30.120 --> 0:03:33.120 would bring him more acclaim, but it would also it's 0:03:33.160 --> 0:03:35.320 a trade off. Like I think for him to then 0:03:35.480 --> 0:03:39.680 go to Hollywood and take on a Disney movie project, 0:03:39.720 --> 0:03:42.520 there's trade offs involved in that for him, and I 0:03:42.640 --> 0:03:45.760 love how he was honest with us about that in 0:03:45.800 --> 0:03:50.320 that episode. Do they stay? They don't such an interesting stay? 0:03:50.600 --> 0:03:53.960 They stay in two D? Becausever but not forever? 0:03:54.080 --> 0:03:55.920 But not Yeah, yeah, that's right. 0:03:56.360 --> 0:04:00.400 I think we just don't. We don't love change. Yes, 0:04:00.600 --> 0:04:03.080 you know, like when something kind of is changing in 0:04:03.120 --> 0:04:05.560 a way that we didn't we didn't choose, it is 0:04:05.600 --> 0:04:08.600 this hard thing of oh that's not how That's why 0:04:08.720 --> 0:04:12.600 parenting is so emotionally wrenching because every day has changed. 0:04:12.640 --> 0:04:15.400 That is so true and so just ding some real 0:04:15.440 --> 0:04:18.000 truth bombs here. Yeah really are wow. 0:04:18.600 --> 0:04:20.880 Curious question from me. The way you brought this to 0:04:20.920 --> 0:04:24.480 the show, Melia, thank you. So interesting was the criticism 0:04:24.480 --> 0:04:27.280 against the three D Did that happen first and then 0:04:27.279 --> 0:04:29.719 they released this reel of him talking about it, or 0:04:30.400 --> 0:04:33.359 like you said something about it being a productive. 0:04:33.520 --> 0:04:36.400 So yeah, there was a little bit of chatter before 0:04:36.480 --> 0:04:38.640 the trailer came out about what it would look like. 0:04:38.760 --> 0:04:41.760 Then the trailer comes out and it's in. It's in 0:04:41.800 --> 0:04:44.480 this more three D look. And I don't know exactly 0:04:44.560 --> 0:04:47.880 when they filmed the interview that we played from there, 0:04:47.920 --> 0:04:52.760 but the comments on that are very divided. Once the 0:04:52.800 --> 0:04:56.200 trailer came out, people there were two camps, wouldn't you say, Stacy. 0:04:56.000 --> 0:04:58.680 Yeah, yeah, absolutely, people being like, I don't care give 0:04:58.720 --> 0:05:01.200 me Bluey in any form that it comes to me, 0:05:01.360 --> 0:05:02.279 like we know it will be. 0:05:03.040 --> 0:05:05.000 It has to be too. 0:05:05.160 --> 0:05:08.360 Yeah, it does look like a richer, more visualous, sumptuous 0:05:08.440 --> 0:05:09.159 universe does. 0:05:09.240 --> 0:05:11.800 And then other people going, this isn't my Bluey. I 0:05:11.839 --> 0:05:12.760 don't know this Bluey. 0:05:13.440 --> 0:05:14.680 I think it's going to be one of those things 0:05:14.720 --> 0:05:16.360 that you notice for the first two minutes and then 0:05:16.360 --> 0:05:18.880 you just forget that it even was any different. 0:05:19.200 --> 0:05:21.320 Yeah, I'll look. I'll be wrestling you too. 0:05:21.160 --> 0:05:24.480 For the August twenty twenty seven We'll be Live podcast 0:05:24.600 --> 0:05:28.359 will be there regardless. Another little in case you missed 0:05:28.400 --> 0:05:30.640 it this week, cast your mind back to how you 0:05:30.720 --> 0:05:34.520 felt four weeks after your first baby. Now imagine going 0:05:34.600 --> 0:05:39.640 on National Live TV with that baby in your arms, 0:05:39.240 --> 0:05:42.960 in my truck suit that I'm born for four days straight. 0:05:43.040 --> 0:05:44.880 Yeah, okay, cool, Yeah, I'd look great. 0:05:45.200 --> 0:05:48.599 Today's show host Sarah Arbo is living what would be 0:05:48.680 --> 0:05:51.599 my nightmare, but she's looking lovely while doing it. She 0:05:51.720 --> 0:05:54.400 returned to the morning TV show Couch this week with 0:05:54.480 --> 0:05:57.120 her four week old Sonny, and I have to say 0:05:57.160 --> 0:06:01.600 he was remarkably well behaved and she looked remarkably put together. 0:06:02.040 --> 0:06:03.720 Here's some of what she had to say. 0:06:04.000 --> 0:06:06.280 Oh my god, we have a child now, and from 0:06:06.320 --> 0:06:09.120 the moment you first meet them in hospital to you know, 0:06:09.160 --> 0:06:13.000 the nightly feeds and more daily morning, all the time feeds. 0:06:13.839 --> 0:06:15.600 Just nursing him is so beautiful, and you just go, 0:06:15.720 --> 0:06:18.360 this little guy is so dependent on us, and you know, 0:06:18.360 --> 0:06:20.440 we just want to make him proud and just give 0:06:20.520 --> 0:06:21.440 him the best start in life. 0:06:21.480 --> 0:06:25.039 That's what morning TV hosts do so well. They share 0:06:25.120 --> 0:06:28.800 with us such relatable insights into how you think in 0:06:28.839 --> 0:06:30.680 any time of life. Like when she said that about 0:06:30.720 --> 0:06:35.279 the responsibility, Yeah, that's what everyone think. I was just thinking, Wow, 0:06:35.360 --> 0:06:38.440 that was a really succinct, well put together sentence, something 0:06:38.480 --> 0:06:41.839 I was not doing for weeks post part even more incredibly, 0:06:41.920 --> 0:06:45.839 Sarah attended the Logis on Sunday night, which I cannot 0:06:45.839 --> 0:06:48.840 imagine putting on an evening gown and spanks So for 0:06:49.440 --> 0:06:50.920 weeks after you have a baby. 0:06:51.160 --> 0:06:54.760 Yeah, this is a no from me. This is not 0:06:54.800 --> 0:06:57.520 a criticism of Sarah Arbo by any means. What I 0:06:57.560 --> 0:06:59.599 want to do here is play the ball and not 0:06:59.640 --> 0:07:01.719 the man. So what I want to sort of challenge 0:07:01.760 --> 0:07:04.960 is the idea that she went on that couch, not 0:07:05.160 --> 0:07:07.240 her doing it or her decision. Right, It's kind of 0:07:07.279 --> 0:07:11.080 like that the context around her having to go and 0:07:11.120 --> 0:07:15.280 do that. I think for me this feels suchually feels 0:07:15.320 --> 0:07:18.560 really gendered, and I think it also speaks to kind 0:07:18.560 --> 0:07:22.360 of the pressure of retaining relevance in the workplace when 0:07:22.400 --> 0:07:24.040 you step out and have a baby. Like we know 0:07:24.280 --> 0:07:26.440 that we already live in a culture where women feel 0:07:26.480 --> 0:07:28.480 really worried that when they go on maternity leave that 0:07:28.520 --> 0:07:30.440 they're going to lose relevance, that people are going to 0:07:30.480 --> 0:07:33.120 forget about them, that they won't maintain the same kind 0:07:33.120 --> 0:07:35.480 of value in the workplace. So to see her on 0:07:35.560 --> 0:07:39.960 the couch four weeks postpartum just raankle me. 0:07:39.880 --> 0:07:42.320 A little bit. Go on, I know what you're going 0:07:42.360 --> 0:07:44.360 to say, yeah, I don't see a problem with this. 0:07:44.640 --> 0:07:47.040 I feel like everyone wants to take their baby in 0:07:47.080 --> 0:07:49.920 and show them off and pretend that they're doing great. 0:07:50.000 --> 0:07:52.560 Like maybe she is legitimately doing great in every way, 0:07:52.800 --> 0:07:55.720 but I think you do want to go back and 0:07:55.840 --> 0:07:58.440 show those people. And I think by extension, they talk 0:07:58.440 --> 0:08:00.760 about it on morning TV all the time that their 0:08:00.800 --> 0:08:03.520 audience is their family and they feel this very parasocial 0:08:03.560 --> 0:08:04.480 relationship with them. 0:08:04.760 --> 0:08:06.800 So she's just sharing the good news. 0:08:06.880 --> 0:08:09.680 No, that's very true, and I agree with that. I 0:08:09.720 --> 0:08:13.360 agree with the parasocial relationship. I agree, but this isn't 0:08:13.360 --> 0:08:14.840 pop into the workplace and say hi. 0:08:14.920 --> 0:08:15.559 For five minutes. 0:08:15.600 --> 0:08:17.760 She's in a makeup chair an hour before she's like, 0:08:17.920 --> 0:08:20.680 you know, this is a huge undertaking to take a 0:08:20.720 --> 0:08:23.520 baby in and sit there and smile. And she performed 0:08:23.640 --> 0:08:25.880 like she was wonderful, and I know the audience would 0:08:25.880 --> 0:08:28.280 have loved it. I'm more talking about that kind of 0:08:28.280 --> 0:08:31.840 feeling of like that I'm still here, don't forget about 0:08:31.840 --> 0:08:33.880 me kind of Maybe I'm overthinking it. 0:08:33.880 --> 0:08:34.240 I don't know. 0:08:34.400 --> 0:08:36.800 No, I think the thing that got me sorry to 0:08:36.920 --> 0:08:39.400 jump in again is that the reason I think it's 0:08:39.400 --> 0:08:42.439 gendered is like Carl Stefanovic didn't schlep baby Harper into 0:08:42.480 --> 0:08:44.600 the Today Show couch when he had her, you know, 0:08:44.960 --> 0:08:48.040 four weeks after he had that baby. And I just 0:08:48.080 --> 0:08:50.760 think and because no one would have ever expected him to, 0:08:51.400 --> 0:08:53.320 and yet Sarah Arbo does. 0:08:53.720 --> 0:08:55.520 I think it's a good point once and I think 0:08:55.679 --> 0:08:59.360 maybe it's even more heightened for her that feeling, whether 0:08:59.440 --> 0:09:01.360 or not she's actual feeling it. I think a lot 0:09:01.400 --> 0:09:03.600 of women do feel that way, and it might be 0:09:03.640 --> 0:09:06.320 heightened in her case because in the lead up to 0:09:06.360 --> 0:09:09.120 her taking her parental leave, it was such a charge 0:09:09.240 --> 0:09:12.880 time at the Today Show with Carl leaving and a 0:09:12.920 --> 0:09:16.480 lot of controversy, and I just wonder if that wouldn't 0:09:16.480 --> 0:09:18.679 have heightened that feeling. I've got to get back there, 0:09:18.679 --> 0:09:19.720 I've got to keep. 0:09:19.520 --> 0:09:20.760 Things smooth and running. 0:09:21.400 --> 0:09:24.160 Yeah, that's the pressure that women are under all the time. 0:09:24.240 --> 0:09:28.720 It's like, you're four weeks go rest be with your baby, Like, yeah, 0:09:28.760 --> 0:09:31.080 I just felt I know it was probably her choice 0:09:31.120 --> 0:09:33.040 and it was probably all fine, but just there was 0:09:33.080 --> 0:09:34.760 that little part of me that thought, I wish she 0:09:34.800 --> 0:09:37.320 didn't have to do this. Before we get into it, 0:09:37.360 --> 0:09:39.720 this segment is going to canvas issues of mental illness 0:09:39.880 --> 0:09:42.199 and infant death. So if that's not something you want 0:09:42.240 --> 0:09:46.240 in your ears today, please look after yourself and skip forward. 0:09:46.480 --> 0:09:48.920 We will have the exact time code in the show notes. 0:09:49.120 --> 0:09:51.720 If you haven't heard the name Lindsey Clancy yet, you 0:09:51.840 --> 0:09:54.520 are about to hear it everywhere. And why I really 0:09:54.520 --> 0:09:57.040 wanted to bring this story to the show today is 0:09:57.040 --> 0:10:00.959 that I haven't seen a story capture the attention of women, 0:10:01.040 --> 0:10:05.239 particularly mothers, like this in my sixteen years in media. 0:10:05.320 --> 0:10:07.920 So Lindsay is a thirty six year old nurse and 0:10:07.960 --> 0:10:10.000 a mother, and she's at the center of what they're 0:10:10.120 --> 0:10:13.760 describing as the saddest murder trial in the world. And 0:10:13.880 --> 0:10:16.400 what's unique about this is while Lindsay is on trial 0:10:16.480 --> 0:10:18.760 for the murder of her three children, which I think 0:10:18.800 --> 0:10:22.200 all of us can agree is just the most horrific circumstances, 0:10:22.640 --> 0:10:26.000 she's being met with widespread sympathy. And I have a 0:10:26.080 --> 0:10:29.080 few theories as to why this is happening, but I 0:10:29.120 --> 0:10:31.160 wanted to ask, are you two starting to see this 0:10:31.240 --> 0:10:33.720 story coming into your algorithms a lot? 0:10:33.760 --> 0:10:33.880 Now? 0:10:33.920 --> 0:10:36.040 Are you starting to hear your group chats talking about 0:10:36.040 --> 0:10:36.560 this case? 0:10:37.200 --> 0:10:40.120 I wasn't, and then I was blissfully ignorant until very 0:10:40.200 --> 0:10:42.720 late this week, and then because I know you wanted 0:10:42.720 --> 0:10:44.920 to bring it up, I had to google it. I'm 0:10:44.920 --> 0:10:47.880 afraid to admit I did. Yea yeah, and now it's everywhere. 0:10:47.960 --> 0:10:49.240 Now I feel like, how did I miss this? 0:10:50.080 --> 0:10:53.840 I've been hearing about it, but I had consciously switched off, 0:10:54.679 --> 0:10:56.640 but it got this week to the point where I 0:10:56.679 --> 0:10:59.680 couldn't do that anymore. Yeah, and so I do really 0:10:59.720 --> 0:11:02.680 want to hear from you once we've established the facts. 0:11:02.679 --> 0:11:04.520 For people like me who are not caught up on 0:11:04.559 --> 0:11:08.600 it all, why this horrific true crime story has captured 0:11:08.640 --> 0:11:11.720 the attention of so many women who aren't even normally 0:11:11.760 --> 0:11:12.520 into true crime. 0:11:12.600 --> 0:11:15.160 Yeah, Yeah, And I think people maybe listen to this 0:11:15.280 --> 0:11:18.320 show as a comfort during postpartum time, and the last 0:11:18.320 --> 0:11:20.720 thing we would want is for that to hinder you 0:11:20.760 --> 0:11:22.600 in any way. So please take care of yourself and 0:11:22.640 --> 0:11:24.000 know that we're thinking of you if that. 0:11:24.120 --> 0:11:24.680 Is the case. 0:11:25.160 --> 0:11:27.680 So, if you are aware of all the circumstances, I'm 0:11:27.720 --> 0:11:29.920 just going to catch you up really quickly on what 0:11:30.240 --> 0:11:32.960 this story is and what Lindsay is accused of doing. 0:11:33.520 --> 0:11:33.720 So. 0:11:33.920 --> 0:11:37.000 Lindsay is accused of murdering her three children, this five 0:11:37.080 --> 0:11:40.079 year old Cora, three year old Dawson, and eight month 0:11:40.120 --> 0:11:43.679 old Callan. So they were killed in their home in Massachusetts. 0:11:43.760 --> 0:11:46.720 Back in twenty twenty three. The court heard that Lindsay's 0:11:46.800 --> 0:11:50.199 now ex husband Patrick was picking up takeaway while this happened. 0:11:50.240 --> 0:11:52.600 And it's been heard in court that Lindsay then attempted 0:11:52.640 --> 0:11:55.400 to die by suicide by self harming and then jumping 0:11:55.440 --> 0:11:58.320 out of their second story window. She's been left with 0:11:58.400 --> 0:12:01.040 lifelong injuries from that and she's now in a wheelchair 0:12:01.280 --> 0:12:05.800 while she's in court at the moment. So Lindsay's defense team, 0:12:05.800 --> 0:12:07.720 I just want to make this really clear that Lindsay's 0:12:07.760 --> 0:12:10.800 defense team are not denying that she caused their deaths. 0:12:10.960 --> 0:12:13.120 Lindsay has admitted to causing their deaths. 0:12:13.760 --> 0:12:15.680 What they said, so this is not a case of 0:12:15.760 --> 0:12:18.319 did she or didn't she. No, they're saying she did. 0:12:18.800 --> 0:12:21.160 Despite what you might be seeing on social media, this 0:12:21.280 --> 0:12:23.400 is not a case of that. What Lindsay's defense team 0:12:23.440 --> 0:12:25.559 are saying is that she is not guilty by reason 0:12:25.600 --> 0:12:29.000 of insanity. So they're citing that this was active postpartum 0:12:29.040 --> 0:12:33.360 psychosis that caused what happened, and that's that's what's being 0:12:33.400 --> 0:12:35.800 heard in the court right now, so so far, they're 0:12:35.840 --> 0:12:40.080 hearing that Lindsay repeatedly attempted to seek help for her 0:12:40.200 --> 0:12:44.560 worsening mental state and which included intrusive thoughts and depression. 0:12:44.920 --> 0:12:46.920 The court has heard that she was on a combination 0:12:47.040 --> 0:12:51.200 of up to thirteen prescribed medications and she raised concerns 0:12:51.280 --> 0:12:55.280 multiple times that they were hindering her more, that they 0:12:55.280 --> 0:12:58.280 were making her symptoms worse, and people, including a nanny 0:12:58.280 --> 0:13:01.280 that worked for the Clancys, testified that Lindsay was a 0:13:01.320 --> 0:13:04.280 wonderful mother who loved her kids. In fact, no one 0:13:04.320 --> 0:13:06.400 has said a bad word about Lindsay and the evidence 0:13:06.440 --> 0:13:07.319 we've heard thus far. 0:13:07.800 --> 0:13:09.800 She's a former nurse, isn't she. 0:13:09.640 --> 0:13:12.239 She is, yeah, former midwife. 0:13:12.480 --> 0:13:16.160 Yeah, And I read an article about how in the post, 0:13:16.480 --> 0:13:19.400 you know, in the maternity ward, people would ask for her. 0:13:19.640 --> 0:13:22.160 She was like the top nurse, the best, the most caring, 0:13:22.200 --> 0:13:22.880 the most loving. 0:13:23.360 --> 0:13:23.720 Yeah. 0:13:23.800 --> 0:13:27.480 Yeah, that's widely been what's been reported inside and outside 0:13:27.640 --> 0:13:28.439 of the courtroom. 0:13:28.520 --> 0:13:32.480 But Stacey, what does what has the prosecution had to 0:13:32.559 --> 0:13:36.240 say about her seeking the help and her raising the 0:13:36.280 --> 0:13:37.319 flags about the drugs? 0:13:37.320 --> 0:13:40.280 I think that is that is the thing that they're 0:13:40.600 --> 0:13:43.600 they're hinging their argument on here is that Lindsay was 0:13:43.600 --> 0:13:46.480 a victim of a system that allowed her to fall 0:13:46.520 --> 0:13:47.079 through the crack. 0:13:47.200 --> 0:13:49.440 So if the defense is saying, look, this was a 0:13:49.480 --> 0:13:52.080 woman in medical need who was in fact trying to 0:13:52.200 --> 0:13:57.120 raise the alarm with her doctors about the fact that 0:13:57.160 --> 0:13:59.040 she was on a lot of medications and maybe they 0:13:59.080 --> 0:14:02.480 weren't working well together, and that she wasn't feeling herself, 0:14:03.000 --> 0:14:05.880 what does the prosecution have to counter that with. 0:14:06.080 --> 0:14:08.640 Yeah, so the prosecutioner trying to prove that she was 0:14:08.640 --> 0:14:12.199 of sound mind at the time and that she purposely 0:14:12.240 --> 0:14:16.120 sent Patrick, her now ex husband, out on an errand 0:14:16.240 --> 0:14:18.640 during that time, so that she could commit the murders. 0:14:18.679 --> 0:14:19.360 And in fact, she. 0:14:19.320 --> 0:14:23.000 Took a phone call from him while while he was 0:14:23.040 --> 0:14:25.280 out he went to the chemist to get medication. 0:14:24.920 --> 0:14:26.760 For the children. Have we heard the phone call. 0:14:26.840 --> 0:14:28.600 We haven't heard the phone call. We've just heard that 0:14:28.640 --> 0:14:31.800 it was fourteen seconds or fifteen seconds, something really short 0:14:31.880 --> 0:14:34.600 like that, but that they chatted in that time and. 0:14:34.760 --> 0:14:35.680 Checking on a medication. 0:14:36.000 --> 0:14:39.240 Yeah, and she sounded normal, distracted. 0:14:38.680 --> 0:14:40.440 That they might be in the bath, or that she 0:14:40.480 --> 0:14:42.280 might be in the middle of something, but that she 0:14:42.400 --> 0:14:43.040 seemed fine. 0:14:43.440 --> 0:14:44.320 Right, But I mean. 0:14:44.440 --> 0:14:49.840 Patrick himself, it should be said, is sympathetic to Lindsey 0:14:49.920 --> 0:14:54.320 and has spoken multiple times previously to the court case 0:14:54.560 --> 0:14:56.680 about the fact that he's found it in his heart 0:14:56.720 --> 0:14:59.000 to forgive her. And one of the quotes that always 0:14:59.000 --> 0:15:01.480 stands out to me is that he said he didn't 0:15:01.720 --> 0:15:04.520 marry a monster, he married someone who became ill. 0:15:04.760 --> 0:15:07.400 And that was that big New York piece about Yeah. 0:15:07.440 --> 0:15:11.240 So he is in support of Lindsay in this kind has. 0:15:11.160 --> 0:15:15.120 Well stayed that way because I read that he has remarried, 0:15:15.960 --> 0:15:19.040 he's still taking that stance of sympathy towards her. 0:15:18.960 --> 0:15:19.800 I believe. 0:15:19.840 --> 0:15:23.320 So he hasn't kind of spoken about that in the 0:15:23.360 --> 0:15:27.000 court case now, but he's kind of remade steadfast in 0:15:27.120 --> 0:15:31.320 that support of her that she was suffering in that time. 0:15:32.080 --> 0:15:34.520 Discourse around this seems to be kind of split into 0:15:34.600 --> 0:15:40.920 three really distinct parts. Number one is the true crime 0:15:40.960 --> 0:15:43.280 obsessive seem to be on this track, and there's a 0:15:43.360 --> 0:15:47.320 huge conspiracy that actually Patrick he's actually the murderer. We 0:15:47.360 --> 0:15:51.200 can discount that, But then what we're left with is 0:15:51.240 --> 0:15:57.880 that Lindsey many many people are siding with her and 0:15:57.920 --> 0:16:00.200 standing with her and saying this is a woman who 0:16:00.240 --> 0:16:04.080 was in deep psychological distress and she was let down. 0:16:04.640 --> 0:16:07.720 And she was a woman who asked for help multiple 0:16:07.760 --> 0:16:11.360 times and yet still fell through the cracks and was 0:16:11.440 --> 0:16:13.480 let down by the systems around her and by the 0:16:13.560 --> 0:16:17.400 people around her. But then there's the third tranch of 0:16:17.440 --> 0:16:20.200 the internet that's saying, hang on, three children are dead 0:16:20.560 --> 0:16:24.600 and at her hands. And so no matter what psychological 0:16:24.640 --> 0:16:28.600 situation is happening here, somebody needs to be kept held 0:16:28.640 --> 0:16:29.520 to account for this. 0:16:29.840 --> 0:16:32.239 Yep. So yeah, yeah, absolutely. 0:16:32.400 --> 0:16:37.000 I think that second point is the crux of why 0:16:37.080 --> 0:16:39.480 everyone is so invested in this case. And I've been 0:16:39.520 --> 0:16:42.760 reading a lot about this because, as you said, yeah, so, 0:16:43.160 --> 0:16:46.600 first of all, online, what you see in the courtroom 0:16:46.640 --> 0:16:49.240 and what's being presented in the courtroom is very different 0:16:49.320 --> 0:16:52.000 to what you're seeing on social media. As Mon's just said, 0:16:52.040 --> 0:16:54.480 then a lot of people on social media will have 0:16:54.600 --> 0:16:57.040 you believe that her husband did it, which is unfounded 0:16:57.080 --> 0:16:59.640 in this situation. This case is not about whether he 0:16:59.680 --> 0:17:02.000 did it or he did it. People are so passionate 0:17:02.040 --> 0:17:04.560 about this, and I think part of what I'm going 0:17:04.600 --> 0:17:07.639 to explain is why so in this case, there's a 0:17:07.720 --> 0:17:11.320 lack of what they call defensive attribution. So doctor Kristen 0:17:11.440 --> 0:17:13.400 Summer did a great video about this week and link 0:17:13.440 --> 0:17:16.320 to where she talks about how when a tragedy happens, 0:17:16.760 --> 0:17:20.040 we like to say a child drowning in a backyard 0:17:20.119 --> 0:17:22.920 swimming pool, we like to blame it on a person's 0:17:23.040 --> 0:17:26.080 choices rather than saying it was an unavoidable situation. So 0:17:26.119 --> 0:17:29.879 we like to say, well, that person wasn't watching their child, 0:17:29.920 --> 0:17:32.440 and you could avoid that because you could watch your child. 0:17:32.480 --> 0:17:35.440 So that won't happen in my situation, because I will 0:17:35.480 --> 0:17:39.040 avoid this by watching my child. And that's how your 0:17:39.119 --> 0:17:42.359 mind tricks itself into feeling like life is controllable again. 0:17:42.600 --> 0:17:46.200 But in a case like this, where there's potential postpartum psychosis, 0:17:46.520 --> 0:17:49.199 we can't comfort ourselves out of that thought because it 0:17:49.240 --> 0:17:52.399 feels like something that's impossible for us to avoid. And 0:17:52.520 --> 0:17:55.680 so she explains it as the one way our brain 0:17:55.800 --> 0:17:59.919 finds a way out is sympathy for Lindsey that we 0:18:00.160 --> 0:18:02.040 just we can't rationalize it. 0:18:02.240 --> 0:18:04.560 I feel like this happens again and again in these 0:18:04.560 --> 0:18:08.719 horrible cases, that we collectively seem to have some idea 0:18:08.800 --> 0:18:12.480 of how parents should cope in these unimaginable situations. 0:18:12.920 --> 0:18:14.920 Yeah, where do we get that from Yeah. 0:18:14.960 --> 0:18:17.280 I think it is probably that thing of it feels 0:18:17.480 --> 0:18:21.119 so horrific and so unbelievable to us that we feel 0:18:21.160 --> 0:18:24.560 like we could never we could never do that, and 0:18:24.600 --> 0:18:27.080 we just don't know because we're not in that situation. 0:18:27.320 --> 0:18:29.120 That's reason one why people are obsessed. 0:18:29.760 --> 0:18:32.360 Yeah, So my other two things I want to point out. 0:18:32.520 --> 0:18:34.399 One of the other reasons I think is that Lindsay 0:18:34.720 --> 0:18:36.919 Clancy is a beautiful white woman, and we know that 0:18:36.960 --> 0:18:40.479 the media definitely draws more attention to cases like that, 0:18:40.560 --> 0:18:41.480 So I think that may. 0:18:41.400 --> 0:18:46.680 Be so tough to be said perfectionist. She's slender, she's beautiful, yep. 0:18:46.560 --> 0:18:48.800 Yep, she was a nurse, she fits all these things 0:18:48.840 --> 0:18:52.320 that we think of as the perfect mother, rightly or wrongly. 0:18:52.760 --> 0:18:55.480 But I think one of the other things that really 0:18:55.520 --> 0:18:57.480 gets to the crux of why we all feel so 0:18:57.560 --> 0:19:00.320 emotional about this story is that we can see us 0:19:00.320 --> 0:19:03.159 a bit in Lindsey Clancy. And while we might not 0:19:03.240 --> 0:19:06.000