1 00:00:05,799 --> 00:00:08,559 Speaker 1: You're listening to a mom with Me a podcast? 2 00:00:09,119 --> 00:00:10,719 Speaker 2: What are you doing? You're an adult? 3 00:00:12,239 --> 00:00:12,759 Speaker 3: Am I though? 4 00:00:14,359 --> 00:00:14,639 Speaker 2: Yes? 5 00:00:17,959 --> 00:00:21,439 Speaker 3: Welcome back everyone, I'm a shiny Dante And this is 6 00:00:21,479 --> 00:00:23,919 Speaker 3: but are you Happy? A Mother of Mere podcast for 7 00:00:24,159 --> 00:00:27,679 Speaker 3: anyone who's form of therapy sometimes looks like scrolling memes 8 00:00:27,719 --> 00:00:29,479 Speaker 3: and sending it to your friends at two am. 9 00:00:29,759 --> 00:00:33,159 Speaker 2: You know who you are, and I'm doctor Anesthetia Hernus, 10 00:00:33,199 --> 00:00:36,959 Speaker 2: clinical psychologist. And now look, if you've tuned into this episode, 11 00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:39,999 Speaker 2: you might be feeling like your life isn't where you 12 00:00:40,159 --> 00:00:42,559 Speaker 2: thought it would be at this point in time. 13 00:00:42,759 --> 00:00:45,239 Speaker 3: In this episode, we're going to be unpacking the myth 14 00:00:45,319 --> 00:00:47,959 Speaker 3: of having it all figured out in your adulthood, the 15 00:00:48,159 --> 00:00:50,839 Speaker 3: quiet grief of life not going the way that you thought, 16 00:00:50,999 --> 00:00:54,359 Speaker 3: and why growing up is never as linear as we 17 00:00:54,439 --> 00:01:00,039 Speaker 3: think it is. Let's get into it, okay. So I 18 00:01:00,119 --> 00:01:03,439 Speaker 3: want to start with this idea about adulthood having to 19 00:01:03,719 --> 00:01:05,599 Speaker 3: look a certain way. 20 00:01:05,719 --> 00:01:05,919 Speaker 1: Right. 21 00:01:06,039 --> 00:01:08,399 Speaker 3: We think that it's supposed to be this neat linear path, 22 00:01:08,479 --> 00:01:10,279 Speaker 3: a bit like how we went to school. 23 00:01:10,359 --> 00:01:12,279 Speaker 1: You know, we went to kindergarten. You won you two. 24 00:01:12,319 --> 00:01:14,079 Speaker 3: There was certainty of what the next step was all 25 00:01:14,079 --> 00:01:16,839 Speaker 3: the way up to year twelve, but it doesn't feel 26 00:01:16,839 --> 00:01:18,519 Speaker 3: like adulthood is like that. 27 00:01:19,799 --> 00:01:23,239 Speaker 2: I agree, Yeah, it doesn't feel like adulthood was like that. 28 00:01:23,279 --> 00:01:26,119 Speaker 2: I wish there was like the roadmap that felt as 29 00:01:26,199 --> 00:01:29,919 Speaker 2: clear as schooling did, but I'm yet to find it. 30 00:01:30,239 --> 00:01:34,159 Speaker 2: I mean, we certainly can have these preconceived notions or 31 00:01:34,199 --> 00:01:36,919 Speaker 2: expectations as to the trajectory that we think we should 32 00:01:36,959 --> 00:01:40,199 Speaker 2: follow in life, whether that's something that we create for ourselves, 33 00:01:40,279 --> 00:01:43,039 Speaker 2: whether it's something society tells us we should follow, etc. 34 00:01:43,639 --> 00:01:45,919 Speaker 2: But as you say, the reality is that that path 35 00:01:45,999 --> 00:01:50,199 Speaker 2: is not always linear, and often actually from an adult 36 00:01:50,279 --> 00:01:53,959 Speaker 2: developmental perspective, we actually find people can move in more 37 00:01:54,159 --> 00:01:57,079 Speaker 2: cyclical kind of patterns. You know, if we think about 38 00:01:57,679 --> 00:02:01,399 Speaker 2: people adjusting to different life stages, so perhaps you know 39 00:02:01,479 --> 00:02:04,439 Speaker 2: the period in life where if people have children, adapting 40 00:02:04,639 --> 00:02:07,159 Speaker 2: having kids, but then adapting to kind of the empty 41 00:02:07,199 --> 00:02:10,679 Speaker 2: nest phase and sort of rehaving to find solitude and 42 00:02:10,799 --> 00:02:13,959 Speaker 2: identity in those spaces. I think for me, when I 43 00:02:13,959 --> 00:02:18,599 Speaker 2: think about adulting and milestones, they feel very intertwined with 44 00:02:18,759 --> 00:02:22,119 Speaker 2: identity and how identity is formed and changes throughout our life. 45 00:02:22,279 --> 00:02:24,839 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's so true, and it's interesting too because it 46 00:02:24,879 --> 00:02:26,959 Speaker 3: just gets me thinking about a conversation I had recently 47 00:02:27,039 --> 00:02:31,159 Speaker 3: around one of my friends. She's older, so she's got kids, 48 00:02:31,199 --> 00:02:33,839 Speaker 3: and they've all already you know, they're all kind of 49 00:02:33,879 --> 00:02:35,759 Speaker 3: adults now, so they've moved out and they're in that 50 00:02:35,799 --> 00:02:39,239 Speaker 3: empty nest to stage, and she was talking about just 51 00:02:39,679 --> 00:02:42,919 Speaker 3: how she's just like thinking about, oh what am I 52 00:02:42,959 --> 00:02:44,679 Speaker 3: going to do in life now? And it's so funny 53 00:02:44,719 --> 00:02:46,439 Speaker 3: because I'm on the other side of it where I 54 00:02:46,439 --> 00:02:48,799 Speaker 3: haven't even had kids yet, and it's just really fascinating 55 00:02:48,799 --> 00:02:50,879 Speaker 3: because I'm like, Wow, there's a whole world over there, 56 00:02:51,359 --> 00:02:54,159 Speaker 3: and I'm not going to understand it until I get there, 57 00:02:54,239 --> 00:02:56,319 Speaker 3: or if I, you know, will I get there, you know, 58 00:02:56,479 --> 00:02:58,679 Speaker 3: so it is hard to Yeah, I just find it 59 00:02:58,719 --> 00:03:01,399 Speaker 3: really fascinating. Yeah, they do intertwine, and. 60 00:03:01,919 --> 00:03:05,639 Speaker 2: That people's sense of self, sense of longing in the world, 61 00:03:05,839 --> 00:03:08,239 Speaker 2: sense of who they are and where they kind of 62 00:03:08,239 --> 00:03:11,879 Speaker 2: fit in amongst other people can be so much influenced 63 00:03:11,999 --> 00:03:14,119 Speaker 2: by that sort of life stage that they're at. 64 00:03:14,359 --> 00:03:16,319 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's so true, and you know, it gets me 65 00:03:16,359 --> 00:03:20,399 Speaker 3: thinking about even in school, like I remember when I 66 00:03:20,519 --> 00:03:23,399 Speaker 3: first started the Flourished Journey, and I remember like there 67 00:03:23,439 --> 00:03:26,639 Speaker 3: were so many times where part of why I started 68 00:03:26,639 --> 00:03:28,519 Speaker 3: it was because I felt like I needed to go 69 00:03:28,559 --> 00:03:31,039 Speaker 3: down this traditional path, right, Like I was told, you 70 00:03:31,039 --> 00:03:33,959 Speaker 3: go to school, you go to university, you study that 71 00:03:34,039 --> 00:03:37,199 Speaker 3: one degree, you you know, you work in that one 72 00:03:37,239 --> 00:03:39,119 Speaker 3: space for the rest of your life, married, have kids, 73 00:03:39,439 --> 00:03:41,599 Speaker 3: and that's it. And then it was an interesting moment 74 00:03:41,639 --> 00:03:43,319 Speaker 3: for me because I had a bit of like a 75 00:03:43,439 --> 00:03:46,239 Speaker 3: questioning in that linear path where I was like, well, 76 00:03:46,559 --> 00:03:49,159 Speaker 3: I don't know if I want to work in speech pathology. 77 00:03:49,159 --> 00:03:51,039 Speaker 3: That's what I did before I started flourish. 78 00:03:51,199 --> 00:03:52,359 Speaker 1: I don't know if I want to do that. 79 00:03:52,399 --> 00:03:54,879 Speaker 3: And it was a moment of it was actually really 80 00:03:54,879 --> 00:03:57,919 Speaker 3: scary questioning that because it felt there were all my 81 00:03:57,959 --> 00:04:01,039 Speaker 3: friends who went to UNI and then they all continue 82 00:04:01,079 --> 00:04:03,839 Speaker 3: to work in speech pathology, which was awesome, but I 83 00:04:03,999 --> 00:04:06,799 Speaker 3: felt like I wasn't that person. So it was kind 84 00:04:06,839 --> 00:04:10,839 Speaker 3: of isolating in that moment. But also I'm really happy 85 00:04:10,839 --> 00:04:12,319 Speaker 3: that I did that because I wouldn't be where I 86 00:04:12,399 --> 00:04:12,879 Speaker 3: am today. 87 00:04:13,479 --> 00:04:16,679 Speaker 2: Yes, that's the identity piece, right, It's like, who am 88 00:04:16,719 --> 00:04:18,719 Speaker 2: I if I don't follow this path that I thought 89 00:04:18,759 --> 00:04:20,719 Speaker 2: I was going to follow? And who am I if 90 00:04:20,719 --> 00:04:23,039 Speaker 2: I follow a path that's different to the path others 91 00:04:23,079 --> 00:04:23,559 Speaker 2: are following? 92 00:04:23,679 --> 00:04:27,679 Speaker 3: Yeah, totally So this term identity rights, it gets thrown 93 00:04:27,719 --> 00:04:33,519 Speaker 3: around all the time. What actually is an identity? Yeah, like, yeah, 94 00:04:33,559 --> 00:04:34,519 Speaker 3: there's so much to it. 95 00:04:35,159 --> 00:04:41,359 Speaker 2: Yes, it's how we perceive ourselves, the fundamental who am 96 00:04:41,399 --> 00:04:42,159 Speaker 2: I question? 97 00:04:42,239 --> 00:04:43,319 Speaker 1: That's a big one. 98 00:04:43,799 --> 00:04:46,839 Speaker 2: And I like to think about identity as a bit 99 00:04:46,879 --> 00:04:51,079 Speaker 2: of a pie chart. You know, different features of our character, 100 00:04:51,639 --> 00:04:54,759 Speaker 2: of our personality, of the person we are in the 101 00:04:54,799 --> 00:04:57,639 Speaker 2: world sort of can occupy different parts of that pie chart, 102 00:04:57,759 --> 00:05:01,039 Speaker 2: and to different degrees. So you know, I might identify 103 00:05:01,399 --> 00:05:03,959 Speaker 2: as you know, being Greek. My background is Greek, and 104 00:05:03,999 --> 00:05:05,959 Speaker 2: that takes up a chunk of my pie chart. I'm 105 00:05:05,959 --> 00:05:08,439 Speaker 2: a psychologist. That takes up a chunk. But I also 106 00:05:08,559 --> 00:05:11,679 Speaker 2: like to think of myself as a caring person that 107 00:05:11,719 --> 00:05:13,559 Speaker 2: takes up a chunk. Right, So we can kind of 108 00:05:13,559 --> 00:05:16,999 Speaker 2: form these identity pie charts. But the thing to remember 109 00:05:17,039 --> 00:05:20,239 Speaker 2: in the context of this conversation about adulthood and milestones 110 00:05:20,959 --> 00:05:26,919 Speaker 2: is that identity is fluid psychology. We talk about identity plasticity, 111 00:05:26,999 --> 00:05:29,679 Speaker 2: you know, the same way we talk about neuroplasticity. Plasticity 112 00:05:29,759 --> 00:05:33,639 Speaker 2: just means changeable. Identity can also be plastic in the 113 00:05:33,679 --> 00:05:37,679 Speaker 2: same way. As we progress through life, as we discover 114 00:05:37,959 --> 00:05:41,319 Speaker 2: more about ourselves and more about the world, our identity 115 00:05:41,359 --> 00:05:45,119 Speaker 2: will inevitably change. I was actually thinking a lot about 116 00:05:45,119 --> 00:05:48,279 Speaker 2: this in preparation for this episode, about how our identity 117 00:05:48,319 --> 00:05:54,479 Speaker 2: shifts and changes, and how tied that is to brain plasticity, right, 118 00:05:54,559 --> 00:05:58,479 Speaker 2: because we know that the brain is forever changing. The 119 00:05:58,559 --> 00:06:01,839 Speaker 2: brain removes old pathways that we no longer need, it 120 00:06:01,919 --> 00:06:05,479 Speaker 2: develops new pathways. The brain is very plastic, and so 121 00:06:05,719 --> 00:06:09,319 Speaker 2: I I think this existential moment about like, how can 122 00:06:09,359 --> 00:06:12,559 Speaker 2: we ever have this core stable sense of self if 123 00:06:12,599 --> 00:06:15,359 Speaker 2: the brain is always changing, right, Like, how can we 124 00:06:15,439 --> 00:06:15,719 Speaker 2: have this? 125 00:06:15,959 --> 00:06:16,159 Speaker 3: You know? 126 00:06:16,439 --> 00:06:18,519 Speaker 2: It seems like a paradox, And so I wrote this, 127 00:06:18,559 --> 00:06:20,279 Speaker 2: I'll read it out to you and you can tell 128 00:06:20,319 --> 00:06:22,319 Speaker 2: me your thoughts on it. But I was trying to 129 00:06:22,359 --> 00:06:25,559 Speaker 2: like kind of get at this paradox as I was writing, 130 00:06:25,639 --> 00:06:27,399 Speaker 2: And so I wrote, you know, at the core of 131 00:06:27,479 --> 00:06:30,919 Speaker 2: understanding identity and the way the brain works is a paradox. 132 00:06:31,079 --> 00:06:33,879 Speaker 2: If who we are rooted in is a brain that 133 00:06:33,959 --> 00:06:37,319 Speaker 2: is constantly changing, what actually holds our sense of self 134 00:06:37,359 --> 00:06:40,959 Speaker 2: together over time? How does this idea of I as 135 00:06:40,959 --> 00:06:44,399 Speaker 2: someone who makes choices, remembers a past, has a continuous 136 00:06:44,439 --> 00:06:46,879 Speaker 2: inner experience, How does that fit with a brain that's 137 00:06:46,919 --> 00:06:50,599 Speaker 2: always rewiring and reorganizing, and if our memories are being 138 00:06:50,679 --> 00:06:55,119 Speaker 2: reshaped by what we're going through, how can they reliably 139 00:06:55,159 --> 00:06:58,319 Speaker 2: act as a foundation of our life story? So wow, 140 00:06:58,679 --> 00:07:01,199 Speaker 2: it's just like I was like trying to think about 141 00:07:01,239 --> 00:07:03,599 Speaker 2: identity and the brain and who we are as ever 142 00:07:03,679 --> 00:07:07,199 Speaker 2: evolving be but also you know, we try and hold 143 00:07:07,239 --> 00:07:09,599 Speaker 2: onto this stable sense of self to give us security. 144 00:07:09,759 --> 00:07:10,839 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a really. 145 00:07:10,599 --> 00:07:12,679 Speaker 3: Interesting way to see it because I think I kind 146 00:07:12,679 --> 00:07:17,559 Speaker 3: of go towards the Yeah, we're constantly evolving and like 147 00:07:17,679 --> 00:07:19,919 Speaker 3: that's okay, and that's a normal part of life, and 148 00:07:19,959 --> 00:07:22,439 Speaker 3: it's kind of you know, the death and rebirth of 149 00:07:22,479 --> 00:07:24,719 Speaker 3: a new version of ourselves constantly when we go through 150 00:07:24,839 --> 00:07:26,479 Speaker 3: new experiences in life. 151 00:07:26,319 --> 00:07:27,279 Speaker 1: And everything like that. 152 00:07:27,519 --> 00:07:29,079 Speaker 3: But yeah, that is a bit of a wig out 153 00:07:29,079 --> 00:07:31,799 Speaker 3: when you think about it, because it's like, then what 154 00:07:31,999 --> 00:07:32,959 Speaker 3: is holding us together? 155 00:07:32,999 --> 00:07:34,959 Speaker 2: Because if I'm always changing, then who am I? 156 00:07:35,399 --> 00:07:36,479 Speaker 1: Yeah? 157 00:07:36,519 --> 00:07:39,319 Speaker 3: Wow, we're really asking the deep questions. I guess in 158 00:07:39,319 --> 00:07:41,799 Speaker 3: a way, I think I've got the answer. It's not 159 00:07:41,919 --> 00:07:44,559 Speaker 3: it's actually not that much. But it's like the only 160 00:07:44,639 --> 00:07:50,279 Speaker 3: thing that's stable is like our bones, the skin or 161 00:07:50,519 --> 00:07:50,719 Speaker 3: you know. 162 00:07:51,159 --> 00:07:55,359 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, like identity is a construct, right, Like it's 163 00:07:55,399 --> 00:07:57,199 Speaker 2: a psychological construct. 164 00:07:57,359 --> 00:08:00,759 Speaker 3: Yeah, Oh, that's it's really going to be thinking about 165 00:08:00,759 --> 00:08:01,039 Speaker 3: it more. 166 00:08:01,079 --> 00:08:02,719 Speaker 1: I'm like that, that's really fascinating. 167 00:08:03,199 --> 00:08:05,639 Speaker 3: So something I feel like we we don't talk about 168 00:08:05,799 --> 00:08:09,959 Speaker 3: enough is the quiet grief that could come when life 169 00:08:10,039 --> 00:08:11,599 Speaker 3: doesn't look the way that you thought it would be 170 00:08:11,879 --> 00:08:14,599 Speaker 3: by now. And I think, you know, so often we 171 00:08:14,639 --> 00:08:17,399 Speaker 3: give attention to those big moments, like you know, whether 172 00:08:17,519 --> 00:08:19,999 Speaker 3: you just got married or you got divorced or you know. 173 00:08:20,559 --> 00:08:24,519 Speaker 1: But yeah, we don't give attention to those like quiet moments. 174 00:08:24,599 --> 00:08:27,919 Speaker 2: The micro grief, because it's not always just like a 175 00:08:27,959 --> 00:08:30,999 Speaker 2: single of a moment attached to a single event, right. 176 00:08:31,119 --> 00:08:34,159 Speaker 2: It's often this kind of culmination over time of things 177 00:08:34,159 --> 00:08:36,639 Speaker 2: that just sort of didn't go the way we expected. 178 00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:39,839 Speaker 2: And there's no one defining moment. It's just eventually we 179 00:08:39,879 --> 00:08:42,359 Speaker 2: get to a point in our life where we go, oh, 180 00:08:42,399 --> 00:08:44,639 Speaker 2: this isn't how I thought it would be, or this 181 00:08:44,679 --> 00:08:46,959 Speaker 2: isn't where I planned to be at this point in time. 182 00:08:47,039 --> 00:08:49,599 Speaker 2: And it's that kind of reflection piece that brings on 183 00:08:49,719 --> 00:08:52,559 Speaker 2: that grief. And I think it's hard for people because 184 00:08:52,839 --> 00:08:55,999 Speaker 2: it's not something that's as easy to talk about, you know, No, 185 00:08:55,999 --> 00:08:58,999 Speaker 2: one's rocking up at your door with Lasagna's when you 186 00:08:59,079 --> 00:09:01,599 Speaker 2: kind of realize that life was just not quite how 187 00:09:01,639 --> 00:09:03,479 Speaker 2: you imagined it in the same way that they do 188 00:09:03,559 --> 00:09:06,919 Speaker 2: if you lose a love one. So without those big 189 00:09:06,919 --> 00:09:10,639 Speaker 2: defining moments, it can be hard for us to express 190 00:09:10,719 --> 00:09:15,079 Speaker 2: that micro grief and have other people connect and provide 191 00:09:15,079 --> 00:09:17,359 Speaker 2: the comfort perhaps that we're looking for in those moments. 192 00:09:17,519 --> 00:09:19,759 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's so true, because it is it's kind of 193 00:09:19,839 --> 00:09:22,199 Speaker 3: like you're stuck with that and you don't have that 194 00:09:22,359 --> 00:09:24,199 Speaker 3: external support to lift you up. 195 00:09:24,799 --> 00:09:28,759 Speaker 2: Yeah, and sometimes I think the loss that people are 196 00:09:28,799 --> 00:09:34,319 Speaker 2: grieving may not for that person feel how do I 197 00:09:34,319 --> 00:09:38,399 Speaker 2: put it, like significant enough compared to big losses that 198 00:09:38,479 --> 00:09:42,799 Speaker 2: other people go through, And maybe we kind of are 199 00:09:42,919 --> 00:09:45,079 Speaker 2: quick to sort of say to people, well, be grateful 200 00:09:45,119 --> 00:09:46,679 Speaker 2: for what you do have, or look on the right 201 00:09:46,759 --> 00:09:49,719 Speaker 2: side and find the silver lining y and not kind 202 00:09:49,719 --> 00:09:55,159 Speaker 2: of wanting to lean into the quieter sadness that can 203 00:09:55,159 --> 00:09:58,079 Speaker 2: come with not sort of reaching some of those milestones 204 00:09:58,079 --> 00:09:58,839 Speaker 2: we might have hoped for. 205 00:09:59,159 --> 00:10:02,159 Speaker 3: So it's a really interesting one too, because it gets 206 00:10:02,159 --> 00:10:04,359 Speaker 3: me thinking about our sense of self and like what 207 00:10:04,679 --> 00:10:07,879 Speaker 3: actually happens to our sense of self when our peers 208 00:10:07,879 --> 00:10:10,399 Speaker 3: are at different stages of life to us. You know, 209 00:10:10,519 --> 00:10:14,119 Speaker 3: some are parenting, some are single, some are traveling. 210 00:10:14,319 --> 00:10:15,719 Speaker 1: You know, it is so different. 211 00:10:16,079 --> 00:10:20,959 Speaker 2: Yeah, this is where comparison can really thief of joy. 212 00:10:21,159 --> 00:10:23,799 Speaker 2: The thief of joy. Absolutely, it can really get us 213 00:10:23,879 --> 00:10:28,119 Speaker 2: undone because you know, comparison in these scenarios, you know, 214 00:10:28,199 --> 00:10:31,959 Speaker 2: we're comparing something on the one hand that's very I 215 00:10:31,999 --> 00:10:34,479 Speaker 2: almost want to say, like superficial, Like it's just a milestone. 216 00:10:34,479 --> 00:10:36,559 Speaker 2: We kind of tick off on the outside. But everyone 217 00:10:36,599 --> 00:10:39,519 Speaker 2: has lived different lives with different trajectories to get to 218 00:10:39,559 --> 00:10:43,159 Speaker 2: whatever point they're at in that time in their life. 219 00:10:43,519 --> 00:10:45,999 Speaker 2: And so to kind of compare if you've bought a 220 00:10:45,999 --> 00:10:47,719 Speaker 2: house or not, or if you've got married or not 221 00:10:47,839 --> 00:10:51,199 Speaker 2: had kids or not, or whatever the comparison is feels 222 00:10:51,239 --> 00:10:54,519 Speaker 2: like it just doesn't do justice to the lives that 223 00:10:54,559 --> 00:10:59,039 Speaker 2: have come before getting to those milestones in life. And 224 00:10:59,079 --> 00:11:01,559 Speaker 2: so if we compare ourselves to others, we really don't 225 00:11:01,599 --> 00:11:05,439 Speaker 2: do ourselves, you know, the justice and service that we 226 00:11:05,679 --> 00:11:07,279 Speaker 2: deserve to give ourselves. 227 00:11:07,679 --> 00:11:09,719 Speaker 3: For me, I know, because you know, Yo and I 228 00:11:09,759 --> 00:11:11,719 Speaker 3: we've been married for a really long time, and then 229 00:11:11,879 --> 00:11:14,399 Speaker 3: I've got friends who are still single and they talk 230 00:11:14,439 --> 00:11:17,479 Speaker 3: about how hard it is as well, but both can 231 00:11:17,519 --> 00:11:20,439 Speaker 3: exist together, Like I can really appreciate the season therein, 232 00:11:20,599 --> 00:11:24,239 Speaker 3: they can appreciate like the season I'm in. And I 233 00:11:24,239 --> 00:11:26,559 Speaker 3: think what I love about my friends who are single 234 00:11:26,639 --> 00:11:29,119 Speaker 3: is that, yes, you know, they talk about I haven't 235 00:11:29,119 --> 00:11:32,519 Speaker 3: found the guy yet or my partner, but they. 236 00:11:32,399 --> 00:11:33,639 Speaker 1: Still put themselves out there. 237 00:11:33,639 --> 00:11:35,399 Speaker 3: And I always tell them that, I'm like, at least 238 00:11:35,399 --> 00:11:38,079 Speaker 3: you're putting yourself out there, like you're enjoying that season, 239 00:11:38,239 --> 00:11:40,919 Speaker 3: you know. So it's really helping each other to see 240 00:11:40,959 --> 00:11:42,999 Speaker 3: the beauty in the stage of life there in. 241 00:11:42,919 --> 00:11:44,519 Speaker 1: Sometimes we have to kind of hold up a bit 242 00:11:44,519 --> 00:11:45,079 Speaker 1: of a mirror. 243 00:11:45,279 --> 00:11:48,839 Speaker 2: Yeah. I also think, as you're saying that, I'm thinking 244 00:11:48,879 --> 00:11:53,839 Speaker 2: about how this feeling of comparison might change with age, Right, 245 00:11:53,879 --> 00:11:56,999 Speaker 2: So I'm thinking about later in life. There's a lot 246 00:11:57,119 --> 00:12:01,639 Speaker 2: more diversity in the experiences people may have had, whether 247 00:12:01,679 --> 00:12:03,319 Speaker 2: they got married or not, where they had kids or not, 248 00:12:03,359 --> 00:12:05,319 Speaker 2: how many kids they had, were they boarderhouse, where they 249 00:12:05,319 --> 00:12:07,719 Speaker 2: lived overseas. You know, like by the time you're kind 250 00:12:07,759 --> 00:12:10,879 Speaker 2: of fifty sixty plus, you've had a lot of different 251 00:12:10,959 --> 00:12:14,439 Speaker 2: kind of trajectories people have followed, and so there's more 252 00:12:14,479 --> 00:12:17,959 Speaker 2: of an acceptance of that difference. But I think when 253 00:12:17,959 --> 00:12:21,279 Speaker 2: you're in your kind of like twenties, thirties, forties, there's 254 00:12:21,319 --> 00:12:24,879 Speaker 2: maybe more expectation that we should be following this pathway 255 00:12:25,159 --> 00:12:28,319 Speaker 2: and that there should be more similarities in the trajectories 256 00:12:28,359 --> 00:12:29,159 Speaker 2: people are following. 257 00:12:29,279 --> 00:12:32,439 Speaker 3: I definitely can understand that acceptance piece as you get older. 258 00:12:32,479 --> 00:12:34,559 Speaker 3: Maybe that's why they're happier. Well, that is why they're 259 00:12:34,559 --> 00:12:36,159 Speaker 3: happier people that are older. 260 00:12:36,039 --> 00:12:37,279 Speaker 2: Because wise I'm happy. 261 00:12:37,359 --> 00:12:40,399 Speaker 1: That's right. It's all linked together. Just for context. 262 00:12:40,479 --> 00:12:42,799 Speaker 3: We were talking about happiness in our last episodes, so 263 00:12:42,799 --> 00:12:47,079 Speaker 3: if you haven't checked it out, please do. It's funny 264 00:12:47,119 --> 00:12:50,079 Speaker 3: how you're unpacking like the twenty thirties and forties like 265 00:12:50,119 --> 00:12:53,279 Speaker 3: in that time, like what we kind of expect of ourselves. 266 00:12:53,359 --> 00:12:56,079 Speaker 3: And it gets me thinking about when I was a teenager. 267 00:12:56,439 --> 00:12:58,399 Speaker 3: I used to think that, oh, when I'm thirty, I'm 268 00:12:58,399 --> 00:13:00,679 Speaker 3: going to have it all figured out. And now I'm 269 00:13:00,759 --> 00:13:03,719 Speaker 3: definitely in my thirties and I can confirm I haven't 270 00:13:03,719 --> 00:13:05,359 Speaker 3: got it all figured out, but it feels like it 271 00:13:05,399 --> 00:13:06,839 Speaker 3: is this lifelong initiation. 272 00:13:07,399 --> 00:13:10,079 Speaker 2: I love how forward thinking you were. I definitely wasn't 273 00:13:10,119 --> 00:13:12,359 Speaker 2: thinking about my thirties when I was a teenager. 274 00:13:12,559 --> 00:13:13,159 Speaker 1: It's just like it. 275 00:13:13,079 --> 00:13:15,399 Speaker 3: Felt like so far away, and I'm like, oh, I 276 00:13:15,479 --> 00:13:16,999 Speaker 3: must be an adult then, you. 277 00:13:16,919 --> 00:13:19,479 Speaker 2: Know, yes, I'll reach this point in my life that 278 00:13:19,519 --> 00:13:21,839 Speaker 2: feels very adults like, and I'll have it all figured 279 00:13:21,879 --> 00:13:27,439 Speaker 2: out by then. Yeah. Yeah, I'm still looking for that version. Well, 280 00:13:27,999 --> 00:13:30,919 Speaker 2: Like you know, in kind of psychological research, we look 281 00:13:30,959 --> 00:13:33,079 Speaker 2: at these sort of developmental stages that we go through. 282 00:13:33,119 --> 00:13:35,559 Speaker 2: Just like when we're kids we go through developmental stages, 283 00:13:35,599 --> 00:13:38,879 Speaker 2: but also when we are adults there are developmental stages 284 00:13:38,879 --> 00:13:41,559 Speaker 2: that we go through as well. And so I'll kind 285 00:13:41,599 --> 00:13:44,839 Speaker 2: of share a bit about Ericson's stages of development, which 286 00:13:44,879 --> 00:13:47,439 Speaker 2: is a well known one, but Ericson talks about sort 287 00:13:47,439 --> 00:13:50,919 Speaker 2: of early stages from when we are an infant, going 288 00:13:50,959 --> 00:13:54,279 Speaker 2: through this stage of learning to trust others from the 289 00:13:54,359 --> 00:13:57,039 Speaker 2: sort of age of zero to eighteen months. Then when 290 00:13:57,079 --> 00:13:59,999 Speaker 2: we're in our toddler years, we start to build that autonomy. 291 00:14:00,799 --> 00:14:04,199 Speaker 2: As we go through like early preschool formative years, we 292 00:14:04,239 --> 00:14:08,239 Speaker 2: start to learn more about like autonomy and initiation. Teen 293 00:14:08,319 --> 00:14:12,759 Speaker 2: years are very much around identity and the internal tug 294 00:14:12,799 --> 00:14:15,439 Speaker 2: of war, of confusion, the angst of being a teenager. 295 00:14:16,599 --> 00:14:19,479 Speaker 2: I remember that, but then we kind of get into 296 00:14:19,519 --> 00:14:23,639 Speaker 2: our early adult years. So this is kind of Ericson 297 00:14:23,639 --> 00:14:25,999 Speaker 2: actually talks about eighteen to forty, which feels like quite 298 00:14:25,999 --> 00:14:29,559 Speaker 2: a big stretch of time, but this is really a 299 00:14:29,599 --> 00:14:32,719 Speaker 2: time in life where they talk about it being defined 300 00:14:32,759 --> 00:14:37,559 Speaker 2: by relationships and this kind of tension between intimacy versus isolation. 301 00:14:38,079 --> 00:14:41,479 Speaker 2: We're trying to sort of form identity and find ourselves 302 00:14:41,559 --> 00:14:45,119 Speaker 2: in relationship to other people, but also on our own 303 00:14:45,239 --> 00:14:48,399 Speaker 2: as well, so a real sense of developing identity there. 304 00:14:48,959 --> 00:14:51,799 Speaker 2: Then we kind of go to that following stage, which 305 00:14:51,839 --> 00:14:55,479 Speaker 2: is more middle aged, which is about you know, contributing 306 00:14:55,519 --> 00:14:58,519 Speaker 2: perhaps more towards others, a sort of slight shift in 307 00:14:58,599 --> 00:15:02,799 Speaker 2: identity and focus where we're looking outward as opposed to inward. 308 00:15:03,319 --> 00:15:05,679 Speaker 2: And then that kind of latest age in life, where 309 00:15:05,719 --> 00:15:09,039 Speaker 2: we are perhaps older and more reflective, looking back at 310 00:15:09,039 --> 00:15:11,319 Speaker 2: the life that we've lived, and arriving at a sense 311 00:15:11,359 --> 00:15:12,959 Speaker 2: of acceptance in our life. 312 00:15:13,759 --> 00:15:16,959 Speaker 3: So it's funny because you were talking about literally when 313 00:15:16,999 --> 00:15:19,799 Speaker 3: you're an infant, you were learning how to build trust. Yeah, 314 00:15:19,839 --> 00:15:22,599 Speaker 3: and I feel like in my thirties, I'm still learning 315 00:15:22,639 --> 00:15:23,279 Speaker 3: how to build. 316 00:15:23,119 --> 00:15:24,559 Speaker 1: Trust, Like how does that work? 317 00:15:24,599 --> 00:15:27,359 Speaker 3: Because I can this feels very structured in a way 318 00:15:27,639 --> 00:15:30,439 Speaker 3: and I feel like I'm like, yep, I'm still learning that. Yeah. 319 00:15:30,559 --> 00:15:31,879 Speaker 1: Does that mean I'm still an infant? 320 00:15:32,239 --> 00:15:33,879 Speaker 2: No, it just means that you've picked up one of 321 00:15:33,919 --> 00:15:35,999 Speaker 2: the criticisms of the model, which is it can be 322 00:15:36,079 --> 00:15:38,679 Speaker 2: too linear and rigid. Okay, And I know earlier we 323 00:15:38,759 --> 00:15:42,159 Speaker 2: were talking about this more cyclical nature of development, and 324 00:15:42,199 --> 00:15:44,719 Speaker 2: I think you've exactly just nailed that, being like, yes, 325 00:15:44,799 --> 00:15:48,039 Speaker 2: it's something we learn very young, but it's also something 326 00:15:48,079 --> 00:15:51,999 Speaker 2: we continuously come back to throughout our life, particularly if 327 00:15:52,039 --> 00:15:55,359 Speaker 2: there have been circumstances which have meant we need to 328 00:15:55,439 --> 00:15:59,399 Speaker 2: reconsider kind of our notional foundation of trust for example. 329 00:15:59,639 --> 00:16:00,799 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's really cool. 330 00:16:00,839 --> 00:16:01,239 Speaker 2: I like that. 331 00:16:01,639 --> 00:16:04,439 Speaker 3: Like when you're talking about cyclical I see a spiral, 332 00:16:04,759 --> 00:16:07,599 Speaker 3: Like a spiral going down because we just learned so 333 00:16:07,679 --> 00:16:10,279 Speaker 3: we trust trust can be a spiral. And it's like, 334 00:16:10,959 --> 00:16:14,399 Speaker 3: through more experiences we become deeper and deeper into what 335 00:16:14,559 --> 00:16:16,279 Speaker 3: trust actually feels and looks like. 336 00:16:16,399 --> 00:16:18,999 Speaker 1: And we know what that is so interesting. 337 00:16:21,639 --> 00:16:24,239 Speaker 3: After the break, doctor Anastasia is going to share how 338 00:16:24,279 --> 00:16:27,359 Speaker 3: to stop feeling behind in life and start owning your timeline. 339 00:16:27,599 --> 00:16:33,119 Speaker 3: Stay with us, So for anyone who's come away from 340 00:16:33,119 --> 00:16:35,719 Speaker 3: doom scrolling on social media, or they've come away from 341 00:16:35,719 --> 00:16:39,159 Speaker 3: a social gathering feeling like they're behind. 342 00:16:39,799 --> 00:16:41,319 Speaker 1: What would you want to tell them right now? 343 00:16:41,719 --> 00:16:45,679 Speaker 2: Oh, a few things. First of all, when we think 344 00:16:45,719 --> 00:16:50,439 Speaker 2: about this idea of behind, really reflect for yourself. Am 345 00:16:50,479 --> 00:16:54,639 Speaker 2: I behind my timeline? Or do I feel like I'm 346 00:16:54,679 --> 00:16:58,359 Speaker 2: behind other people's timelines? There's a big difference. One is 347 00:16:58,359 --> 00:17:01,199 Speaker 2: about comparing ourselves to others in their timelines, but the 348 00:17:01,239 --> 00:17:04,079 Speaker 2: other is about feeling like we're not where we want 349 00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:06,119 Speaker 2: to be in life and perhaps we haven't achieved what 350 00:17:06,199 --> 00:17:10,559 Speaker 2: we want to. So depending on what sort of behind 351 00:17:10,759 --> 00:17:15,039 Speaker 2: feeling you're having, we might deal with them differently. So 352 00:17:15,079 --> 00:17:17,599 Speaker 2: if you're comparing yourself to others and feeling like you're 353 00:17:17,639 --> 00:17:22,239 Speaker 2: behind other people's timeline, really reflect on A. Is that 354 00:17:22,319 --> 00:17:25,679 Speaker 2: a timeline that I even want for myself? And B? 355 00:17:26,559 --> 00:17:30,399 Speaker 2: Is this comparison? Is this judgment where I compare myself 356 00:17:30,439 --> 00:17:33,559 Speaker 2: to other people? Is that helpful for me in any way? 357 00:17:33,919 --> 00:17:36,079 Speaker 2: Is it serving me? Is it helping me achieve the 358 00:17:36,079 --> 00:17:38,799 Speaker 2: timeline I want? Is it helping me achieve my goals? 359 00:17:38,959 --> 00:17:41,879 Speaker 2: Is it helping me build my sense of self and identity? 360 00:17:42,439 --> 00:17:45,239 Speaker 2: Or is it just making me feel bad about myself? So, 361 00:17:45,359 --> 00:17:48,079 Speaker 2: really kind of reflect on whether this comparison is actually 362 00:17:48,119 --> 00:17:49,039 Speaker 2: helpful for you or not. 363 00:17:49,839 --> 00:17:51,879 Speaker 3: I really like that because it just really lays it 364 00:17:51,879 --> 00:17:54,159 Speaker 3: out black and white, and writing it out as you know, 365 00:17:54,279 --> 00:17:56,759 Speaker 3: journaline is one of my best ways to unpack things 366 00:17:56,799 --> 00:17:59,199 Speaker 3: going on for me. It just gets it really clear 367 00:17:59,239 --> 00:18:04,079 Speaker 3: about what's percolating within. And it's interesting too, because I 368 00:18:04,119 --> 00:18:09,039 Speaker 3: think some times that comparison and jealousy can actually be 369 00:18:09,159 --> 00:18:12,239 Speaker 3: helpful data points because it helps you to know what 370 00:18:12,559 --> 00:18:16,159 Speaker 3: you actually desire. It might not necessarily be, you know, 371 00:18:16,239 --> 00:18:18,119 Speaker 3: the actual milestones of oh I want to have kids. 372 00:18:18,159 --> 00:18:20,799 Speaker 3: It might be oh, actually I do want to feel 373 00:18:20,839 --> 00:18:23,039 Speaker 3: loved and I want to journey through life with someone 374 00:18:23,119 --> 00:18:25,199 Speaker 3: that will show me love, you know what I mean. 375 00:18:25,279 --> 00:18:28,319 Speaker 3: So it's like, sometimes it's not necessarily the milestones. Sometimes 376 00:18:28,319 --> 00:18:30,999 Speaker 3: it might be, but there is so much data in 377 00:18:31,519 --> 00:18:33,199 Speaker 3: comparison to It's. 378 00:18:33,079 --> 00:18:35,359 Speaker 2: The feeling of envy is what you're referring to. 379 00:18:35,439 --> 00:18:36,119 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, So. 380 00:18:36,279 --> 00:18:40,199 Speaker 2: The feeling of envy gives me the information that someone 381 00:18:40,199 --> 00:18:42,479 Speaker 2: else has something that I want. Yes, and that can 382 00:18:42,519 --> 00:18:44,799 Speaker 2: be useful because it can help us set a plan 383 00:18:44,919 --> 00:18:46,519 Speaker 2: or take some action towards getting that. 384 00:18:47,159 --> 00:18:47,599 Speaker 1: Totally. 385 00:18:48,559 --> 00:18:50,919 Speaker 2: The thing I think is important to acknowledge here is 386 00:18:50,959 --> 00:18:56,599 Speaker 2: that while we want to be compassionate and kind to ourselves, 387 00:18:57,199 --> 00:19:00,879 Speaker 2: if life hasn't ended up looking the way that we 388 00:19:00,919 --> 00:19:04,239 Speaker 2: would like it to, that's a really important thing to do. 389 00:19:04,599 --> 00:19:07,159 Speaker 2: And at the same time, we don't want to get 390 00:19:07,159 --> 00:19:08,759 Speaker 2: stuck in just validating ourselves. 391 00:19:08,799 --> 00:19:08,959 Speaker 3: Right. 392 00:19:09,039 --> 00:19:12,999 Speaker 2: Validation is important, but it's not everything, and there is 393 00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:18,479 Speaker 2: a real there is real value in pushing ourselves in 394 00:19:18,519 --> 00:19:21,359 Speaker 2: the direction that we want to go. So I'd say 395 00:19:21,359 --> 00:19:24,479 Speaker 2: everything is always going to turn out, but if I 396 00:19:24,519 --> 00:19:27,439 Speaker 2: do have certain goals or certain milestones that are important 397 00:19:27,439 --> 00:19:31,279 Speaker 2: to me in my life, there is value in creating 398 00:19:31,319 --> 00:19:35,079 Speaker 2: plans and taking action to achieve those we wouldn't ever 399 00:19:35,159 --> 00:19:37,319 Speaker 2: want to get to a situation. I guess where we 400 00:19:37,399 --> 00:19:41,039 Speaker 2: looked back and in hindsight thought, you know, what, if 401 00:19:41,079 --> 00:19:43,639 Speaker 2: only I had put myself out there more. You know, 402 00:19:43,679 --> 00:19:45,759 Speaker 2: I was afraid of dating, and so I didn't meet 403 00:19:45,759 --> 00:19:48,119 Speaker 2: a partner. But if only I had taken some risks, 404 00:19:48,399 --> 00:19:51,079 Speaker 2: if only I had made that decision to connect with 405 00:19:51,159 --> 00:19:54,079 Speaker 2: my family more, if only I had right. I guess 406 00:19:54,079 --> 00:19:56,839 Speaker 2: what I'm speaking to here is that we can't control everything, 407 00:19:57,359 --> 00:20:00,159 Speaker 2: but let's make sure we don't end up with regrets. 408 00:20:00,439 --> 00:20:02,519 Speaker 2: Of not having taken action that we could have. 409 00:20:03,479 --> 00:20:04,199 Speaker 1: Yeah, totally. 410 00:20:04,599 --> 00:20:07,359 Speaker 3: And it's actually great that we're talking about action because 411 00:20:07,479 --> 00:20:10,839 Speaker 3: it reminds you of responsibility, right, And I think I 412 00:20:10,919 --> 00:20:13,799 Speaker 3: mentioned this in a previous season where it's like responsibility 413 00:20:13,919 --> 00:20:17,919 Speaker 3: is our ability to respond to certain situations, and it's like, Okay, 414 00:20:17,919 --> 00:20:20,879 Speaker 3: in this moment, how do I choose to respond right now? 415 00:20:20,919 --> 00:20:24,639 Speaker 3: Am I just going to keep moping around and being 416 00:20:24,639 --> 00:20:27,359 Speaker 3: really upset? Which is I think there's always a time 417 00:20:27,399 --> 00:20:30,159 Speaker 3: and place do you feel, you know, feel like you're 418 00:20:30,199 --> 00:20:32,439 Speaker 3: sad and be in that, But then also we got 419 00:20:32,439 --> 00:20:36,039 Speaker 3: to take action to move forward as well. So I 420 00:20:36,079 --> 00:20:37,999 Speaker 3: totally agree in that, like we do need to take 421 00:20:38,039 --> 00:20:39,639 Speaker 3: responsibility of our own life. 422 00:20:39,799 --> 00:20:42,039 Speaker 2: You know, there's a lot of complexity to this, and 423 00:20:42,079 --> 00:20:43,839 Speaker 2: I guess we always want to keep in the balance 424 00:20:43,879 --> 00:20:45,559 Speaker 2: of there's going to be things out of your control 425 00:20:45,599 --> 00:20:47,959 Speaker 2: that yes, don't have agency over, but look at what 426 00:20:47,999 --> 00:20:49,879 Speaker 2: you can do and try and take those steps. Yeah, 427 00:20:49,959 --> 00:20:52,479 Speaker 2: I think there's a lot of complexity in this topic. Really, 428 00:20:52,519 --> 00:20:55,719 Speaker 2: Like we're talking about milestones, you know, and they seem 429 00:20:56,119 --> 00:20:58,399 Speaker 2: simple on the outside, but there's a lot of complexity 430 00:20:58,399 --> 00:21:00,919 Speaker 2: wrapped up in the human experience. And I think the 431 00:21:00,999 --> 00:21:04,319 Speaker 2: kind of takeaway for me in us having this discussion 432 00:21:05,039 --> 00:21:07,679 Speaker 2: is the idea that there will always be things that 433 00:21:07,719 --> 00:21:09,879 Speaker 2: we don't have control over. No matter how much of 434 00:21:09,919 --> 00:21:11,799 Speaker 2: a plan we have for how our life's going to go, 435 00:21:12,079 --> 00:21:15,079 Speaker 2: There's always going to be things we don't have control over. 436 00:21:16,359 --> 00:21:18,599 Speaker 2: But there are also our steps and actions we can 437 00:21:18,639 --> 00:21:21,559 Speaker 2: take to try and influence that trajectory as much as 438 00:21:21,559 --> 00:21:24,039 Speaker 2: we can. You know, it was talking about dating and 439 00:21:24,079 --> 00:21:26,879 Speaker 2: a partner before. We don't know if we will find 440 00:21:26,919 --> 00:21:29,719 Speaker 2: a lifelong partner and if that's how our life will 441 00:21:29,839 --> 00:21:32,879 Speaker 2: play out, but we can certainly take steps towards trying 442 00:21:32,879 --> 00:21:37,599 Speaker 2: to find a partner. We don't know if we will 443 00:21:37,679 --> 00:21:40,119 Speaker 2: have a partner that we'll have kids with, for example. 444 00:21:40,159 --> 00:21:42,519 Speaker 2: You know, the reality is there are biological clocks that 445 00:21:42,559 --> 00:21:45,759 Speaker 2: we need to be mindful of, so we don't necessarily 446 00:21:45,799 --> 00:21:48,559 Speaker 2: know how things will play out, and yet we can 447 00:21:48,599 --> 00:21:51,879 Speaker 2: take steps towards doing something like freezing our eggs. So 448 00:21:51,919 --> 00:21:55,439 Speaker 2: it's really important to kind of keep the balance here, 449 00:21:55,479 --> 00:21:58,199 Speaker 2: I think, in recognizing that there are elements out of 450 00:21:58,239 --> 00:22:00,919 Speaker 2: our control, but let's try and focus on what we 451 00:22:00,959 --> 00:22:03,999 Speaker 2: can do to live that life that we want totally. 452 00:22:05,639 --> 00:22:08,039 Speaker 3: Up next, why do we open the fridge so much 453 00:22:08,079 --> 00:22:09,199 Speaker 3: when there's nothing in there? 454 00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:18,319 Speaker 2: Do you understand how your behavior is confusing? 455 00:22:18,439 --> 00:22:18,719 Speaker 1: Fine? 456 00:22:19,199 --> 00:22:21,799 Speaker 2: Why are we like this? The best way to understand behavior, 457 00:22:21,879 --> 00:22:23,559 Speaker 2: We'll still look at the causes of an action. 458 00:22:24,039 --> 00:22:25,319 Speaker 1: So why are we like this? 459 00:22:26,599 --> 00:22:28,719 Speaker 3: Okay, So you know that feeling when you're at home, 460 00:22:29,039 --> 00:22:31,999 Speaker 3: you got that three pm slump, You want a little snack, 461 00:22:32,079 --> 00:22:34,639 Speaker 3: so you open the fridge door to check if there's 462 00:22:34,679 --> 00:22:37,319 Speaker 3: anything in there, and then you end up opening it 463 00:22:37,399 --> 00:22:40,359 Speaker 3: up like seventeen times, hoping a new snack will just 464 00:22:40,479 --> 00:22:44,199 Speaker 3: magically appear, Like what what's going on there? 465 00:22:44,239 --> 00:22:45,319 Speaker 1: Like, why do we do this? 466 00:22:46,559 --> 00:22:50,439 Speaker 2: Well, this is dopamine in action. Actually, one of my 467 00:22:50,439 --> 00:22:51,359 Speaker 2: favorite topics. 468 00:22:51,159 --> 00:22:53,759 Speaker 3: To talk about, to say about that. 469 00:22:54,239 --> 00:22:56,359 Speaker 2: Well, the thing is when we're opening the fridge, we're 470 00:22:56,399 --> 00:22:58,999 Speaker 2: not like, oh, I wonder if some BROCCOLI's in there, right, 471 00:22:59,879 --> 00:23:02,279 Speaker 2: I mean maybe you are you are for you on 472 00:23:02,399 --> 00:23:06,799 Speaker 2: you on you I had a bit of that were 473 00:23:06,879 --> 00:23:11,559 Speaker 2: ideally hoping it's something tasty and enjoyable to eat, right, Like, 474 00:23:11,639 --> 00:23:14,119 Speaker 2: we're looking for something that's going to be exciting and fun. 475 00:23:14,159 --> 00:23:16,599 Speaker 2: We're not looking for something that's blend and boring. Yes, 476 00:23:16,719 --> 00:23:19,399 Speaker 2: So often this can be driven by boredom or that 477 00:23:19,639 --> 00:23:22,039 Speaker 2: slump as you said, so some kind of like internal 478 00:23:22,079 --> 00:23:24,239 Speaker 2: state of like, eh, I don't feel so good. I 479 00:23:24,239 --> 00:23:27,079 Speaker 2: don't assarily feel bad, but like I don't feel great 480 00:23:27,439 --> 00:23:30,759 Speaker 2: and I'm looking for something to help me feel better. Yes, 481 00:23:30,839 --> 00:23:34,239 Speaker 2: dopamine drives us to seek out things that can give 482 00:23:34,319 --> 00:23:36,959 Speaker 2: us pleasure. So dope means activated when we eat the 483 00:23:36,959 --> 00:23:39,639 Speaker 2: tasty snack, but it's also what drives us to like 484 00:23:39,719 --> 00:23:42,199 Speaker 2: rummage through the pantry and open the fridge and check 485 00:23:42,199 --> 00:23:43,799 Speaker 2: if there's any ice cream in the freezer, and do 486 00:23:43,879 --> 00:23:46,159 Speaker 2: all those things and then consider if we should get 487 00:23:46,239 --> 00:23:51,439 Speaker 2: uber eights. That is, don't mean driving us towards reward, 488 00:23:51,519 --> 00:23:56,199 Speaker 2: and from an evolutionary perspective, we're designed to, you know, 489 00:23:56,319 --> 00:23:58,199 Speaker 2: not just seek out food, but seek out things that 490 00:23:58,239 --> 00:24:00,639 Speaker 2: are going to be pleasurable and rewarding. We used to 491 00:24:00,719 --> 00:24:04,439 Speaker 2: have dopamine driving us to hunt food and forage for 492 00:24:04,679 --> 00:24:07,839 Speaker 2: berries and have sex and procreate, all because we need 493 00:24:07,879 --> 00:24:10,319 Speaker 2: it to survive as a species. And the thing is, 494 00:24:10,399 --> 00:24:12,799 Speaker 2: it's just that that has translated to modern day life, 495 00:24:12,799 --> 00:24:15,999 Speaker 2: where instead of hunting for food, we're opening the fridge. 496 00:24:16,239 --> 00:24:18,439 Speaker 3: We've come a long way from the caveman days haven't 497 00:24:18,479 --> 00:24:21,159 Speaker 3: we y. I love it and it also gets me 498 00:24:21,239 --> 00:24:24,239 Speaker 3: thinking about For me, I know, I open the fridge 499 00:24:24,279 --> 00:24:27,279 Speaker 3: because it's like a it's like a reward system because 500 00:24:27,279 --> 00:24:28,879 Speaker 3: I might have been working really hard. I'm like, yeah, 501 00:24:28,919 --> 00:24:30,959 Speaker 3: but a Shani at three point thirty, you get to 502 00:24:30,999 --> 00:24:32,799 Speaker 3: open the fridge and you get to get a snack. 503 00:24:32,879 --> 00:24:34,719 Speaker 3: So it is a bit of that reward system. But 504 00:24:34,799 --> 00:24:37,479 Speaker 3: sometimes I'm not even hungry, Like I'm just opening it 505 00:24:37,519 --> 00:24:39,039 Speaker 3: just to take a little break from the world. 506 00:24:39,239 --> 00:24:40,879 Speaker 2: Yeah, if you are hungry, you'd eat the broccoli. 507 00:24:40,999 --> 00:24:50,679 Speaker 3: Yeah, totally, Anastasia. What do we talk about in this 508 00:24:50,759 --> 00:24:55,319 Speaker 3: episode so much? First up, our core sense of self 509 00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:58,199 Speaker 3: and who we are isn't defined by timeline. 510 00:24:58,839 --> 00:25:02,999 Speaker 2: Secondly, this idea that our identity is fluid, it's constantly changing, 511 00:25:03,199 --> 00:25:07,519 Speaker 2: evolving and developing. Thirdly, be careful of the comparison trap. 512 00:25:07,839 --> 00:25:10,199 Speaker 2: Make sure you're not comparing where you are in life 513 00:25:10,199 --> 00:25:13,679 Speaker 2: to where other people are in life. And lastly, allow 514 00:25:13,879 --> 00:25:16,879 Speaker 2: space for the micro grief if life isn't looking how 515 00:25:16,919 --> 00:25:17,599 Speaker 2: you thought it would. 516 00:25:17,919 --> 00:25:20,039 Speaker 3: If you'd like us to talk about something specific on 517 00:25:20,079 --> 00:25:22,039 Speaker 3: the podcast, please get in touch with us. 518 00:25:22,159 --> 00:25:24,079 Speaker 1: We'd love to hear from you. Links through in the 519 00:25:24,079 --> 00:25:24,919 Speaker 1: show notes. 520 00:25:24,799 --> 00:25:27,439 Speaker 2: And while I am a psychologist, to this podcast isn't 521 00:25:27,479 --> 00:25:31,559 Speaker 2: a substitute for therapy or a diagnosis. Always take what 522 00:25:31,639 --> 00:25:33,999 Speaker 2: we share here in the context of your own health 523 00:25:34,039 --> 00:25:36,919 Speaker 2: and lived experience and look. If anything we talked about 524 00:25:36,919 --> 00:25:39,759 Speaker 2: today brought up any difficult feelings for you, you'll find 525 00:25:39,879 --> 00:25:42,719 Speaker 2: support resources linked in the show notes. Then, if you 526 00:25:42,759 --> 00:25:46,279 Speaker 2: need some immediate help, there are organizations like Lifeline and 527 00:25:46,319 --> 00:25:48,519 Speaker 2: Beyond Blue that are always there to assist. 528 00:25:48,799 --> 00:25:50,759 Speaker 3: Thanks for listening and let us know what you think 529 00:25:50,759 --> 00:25:53,359 Speaker 3: of this episode. We're watching your dms on our Instagram 530 00:25:53,399 --> 00:25:56,599 Speaker 3: page at but are you happy pod? See you next time. Bye. 531 00:26:02,479 --> 00:26:05,879 Speaker 2: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of the land and 532 00:26:05,999 --> 00:26:08,479 Speaker 2: waters that this podcast is recorded on.