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Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.

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Speaker 2: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters

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Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on.

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Speaker 1: If we aren't allowed to notice that women who are

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Speaker 1: in their forties and fifties and even sixties look like

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Speaker 1: they're in their twenties and thirties, if we're not even

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Speaker 1: allowed to notice that and wonder how they've done it,

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Speaker 1: then what effect does that have on us?

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Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to Mamma Mia out loud and to

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Speaker 2: our Friday show. Where as you know, we don't have

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Speaker 2: anything to do with the news, nothing at all. We

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Speaker 2: just have a good time today today, not today today,

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Speaker 2: It's Friday, the sixteenth of May. And I'm Holly Waynwright.

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Speaker 3: I'm mea Friedman, and I'm Jesse Stevens.

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Speaker 2: And again we're coming to you from the roads, the

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Speaker 2: roads seamless so far. Friends, Again, we're coming to you

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Speaker 2: from the road. So forgive us if we're a little

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Speaker 2: bit glitchy. But friends, how good was Bristolle on Wednesday night?

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Speaker 1: Oh Brisbane, you always deliver. You are possibly the most

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Speaker 1: unhinged trap we play too, but in the best way,

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Speaker 1: in the best way.

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Speaker 3: They're always so much fun. We always go you know

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Speaker 3: who'd love this Brisbane and indeed they do.

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Speaker 2: Tomorrow night we're in Sydney and next Thursday we're in Melbourne,

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Speaker 2: so we will see you next week. But on today's show,

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Speaker 2: a very famous woman has talked us through her boob

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Speaker 2: job online and it's spon con. Is this what we're

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Speaker 2: doing now? We've got recommendations including a whistleblower's memoir, a

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Speaker 2: Fix for Your Face, and a very useful newsletter, and

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Speaker 2: are best of worse, which are a very icky sexy guy,

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Speaker 2: MIA's Missing Deadlines and Jesse's TV meltdown. It's our best

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Speaker 2: and worst of the week. But first, Mia.

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Speaker 1: Fes, you missed it. There is a new thing that

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Speaker 1: you can do on the weekend to heal yourself and

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Speaker 1: get back to nature, and it's called putting you in

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Speaker 1: on a tree. Pardon I love everything about this story now.

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Speaker 1: Minge is an affectionate form of slang for vagina or volva,

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Speaker 1: whatever you want to call it. I think it's a

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Speaker 1: British thing. Hole is it it is?

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Speaker 2: I don't know that affection is the world, but let's

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Speaker 2: go with it. Let's go with it.

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Speaker 1: We're going to reclaim it in the same way we've

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Speaker 1: reclaimed the C word. Victoria Emes is a comedian. She's

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Speaker 1: an online mum mate, and she's got a fitness app

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Speaker 1: called Fitbitches. She makes a lot of content and she

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Speaker 1: has shown something that she likes to do and suggested

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Speaker 1: that maybe it would benefit all of us. Here's a

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Speaker 1: little grab of the reel that she recently posted.

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Speaker 4: But have you got your minge around the tree recently?

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Speaker 4: Because I'm good a vouch for this. This is one

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Speaker 4: of the most healing things that you can do. All

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Speaker 4: you need a tree and a minge.

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Speaker 5: Now we just need to adopt a sort of very

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Speaker 5: comfortable position there, arms right.

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Speaker 4: Round, give it a big squeeze.

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Speaker 5: And then, if you like, if you're feeling fruity, little kiss,

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Speaker 5: just to say thanks love nature for being such a beautiful, wondrous.

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Speaker 2: I just, oh, is anyone else marry me?

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Speaker 3: Absolutely sold?

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah.

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Speaker 1: Now I know this isn't a visual medium, So in

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Speaker 1: case you're just listening to this, I need to point

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Speaker 1: out a couple of things. First of all, she's not naked,

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Speaker 1: because we don't want to get splinters in our bits.

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Speaker 1: Not good. Secondly, she sort of just like hugs the

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Speaker 1: tree and presses herself into it. She don't hump the tree.

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Speaker 1: It's not aggressive if there's no thrusting. It's just like

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Speaker 1: you know, some people talk about earthing. They go and

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Speaker 1: take off their shoes and they stand on the ground.

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Speaker 1: This is just connecting your lady parts to mother Nature.

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Speaker 1: I think it's actually quite beautiful.

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Speaker 6: You know.

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Speaker 2: I don't want to be disrespectful to royalty, but Princess

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Speaker 2: Kate's been talking a lot lately about how nature has

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Speaker 2: helped her get through a difficult time. Yeah, and I'm

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Speaker 2: wondering if this is the next logical step for all

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Speaker 2: of us who love a bit of a tree hug

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Speaker 2: is to take the relationship from platonic to romantic. I

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Speaker 2: think I can see it in my future. I do.

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Speaker 2: I actually am one of those tree huggers. When I

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Speaker 2: see a beautiful tree in nature, I ask it for permission. No,

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Speaker 2: you don't a big squeeze. I love trees like I

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Speaker 2: love trees. So this lady has just opened up a

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Speaker 2: whole new world for me.

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Speaker 3: And I think it is critical as you say that

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Speaker 3: it is done with pants on, or at least under

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Speaker 3: pants on, because there's splinters, but there's also ants bark

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Speaker 3: that could get lodged, and then you might need to

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Speaker 3: go to the emergency room, and we don't want that.

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Speaker 1: Maybe it would pecker be careful of those.

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Speaker 3: A bird, a worm. None of that's fun. But I

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Speaker 3: will say that I feel as though we keep making

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Speaker 3: up fancy words and fancy practices for just go outside

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Speaker 3: and engage somewhat with nature, which I think is always

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Speaker 3: just a good thing. You'll feel better, whether it's your

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Speaker 3: minge on a tree, whether it's your fate on the grass.

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Speaker 3: It's just nice to go out and reconnect with the

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Speaker 3: world around us.

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Speaker 2: It is just remember to keep your ecosystems to yourself.

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Speaker 2: You need the tree to keep their ecosystem over there,

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Speaker 2: and we keep our ecosystems in our pants. They don't

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Speaker 2: need to merge.

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Speaker 3: Actress Selma Hayek has a new neck, Australian influencer Inde

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Speaker 3: Clinton has a new nose, and Megan Trainer has new boobs.

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Speaker 3: One woman is taking us along for the journey, another

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Speaker 3: is an ambassador for a brand new non invasive treatment,

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Speaker 3: and the third is posting sponsored content encouraging anyone motivated

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Speaker 3: to make a change of their own to visit a

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Speaker 3: board certified plastic surgeon near you. Let's start Withindy Clinton.

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Speaker 3: She's got three kids, she's got two point one million

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Speaker 3: followers on Instagram, She's massive on TikTok, and she rose

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Speaker 3: to fame because she's sort of the antithesis to the

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Speaker 3: bar and Bay Earth mother aesthetic. She was very real

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Speaker 3: about the chaos of motherhood anyway. Recently, she made the

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Speaker 3: decision to get a rhinoplasty to resolve an injury after

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Speaker 3: a surfing accident, and when she first announced it to

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Speaker 3: her followers, this was after she'd done it, she was

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Speaker 3: visibly shaking. She explained that she didn't want to tell them,

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Speaker 3: but they were going to be able to see it,

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Speaker 3: so she wanted to be upfront without actually promoting the procedure.

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Speaker 6: I don't want to talk about this. I would rather

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Speaker 6: just do this and hide it because I don't want

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Speaker 6: to promote this, and I don't want to sound like

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Speaker 6: I'm promoting this because I'm doing this for myself. I

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Speaker 6: am getting my nose done next month a rhinoplastic surgery.

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Speaker 6: I don't know if I'm going to post my recovery

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Speaker 6: and all of that, like throughout that. I haven't decided

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Speaker 6: that yet, just because I'm not trying to monetize off

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Speaker 6: this or anything, I genuinely just want to get it done,

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Speaker 6: recover and move on with my life.

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Speaker 3: Seems reasonable. Then there's Salmahayek, a fifty eight year old

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Speaker 3: actress who is now an ambassador full a non invasive

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Speaker 3: skin tightening and lifting tree she uses on her neck,

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Speaker 3: and she get this interview with The Cut where she

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Speaker 3: said she felt like she'd started to look and this

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Speaker 3: is a quote like a turkey, but didn't want to

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Speaker 3: go under the knife. But here's where things get a

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Speaker 3: little murky. A few months ago, singer Meghan Trainer posted

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Speaker 3: sponsored content on Instagram for a breast augmentation and lift.

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Speaker 3: Here's a little bit of what she said.

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Speaker 7: It's Meghan Trainer and I've got some big news to share.

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Speaker 1: Yep, I got my moves done.

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Speaker 7: As you know, I'm in a super busy chapter of

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Speaker 7: my life. I've been touring, working and mummying really hard.

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Speaker 7: So recently I've decided to do something just for me.

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Speaker 7: I got a breastlift and augmentation. Finally, after having two kids,

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Speaker 7: living a healthier lifestyle and losing weight, I couldn't be happier.

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Speaker 8: With my decision. I am so obsessed.

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Speaker 3: The music makes it sound really fun.

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Speaker 1: I started off going, Yeah, I'm into this, that's fine,

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Speaker 1: and then when she started going into quite a lot

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Speaker 1: of details about the specifics of the actual implants, I

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Speaker 1: started to feel a bit icky.

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Speaker 3: Yes, so this is also in among sponsored content for

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Speaker 3: laundry detergent and Elf cosmetics. And then the natural progression is,

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Speaker 3: of course her breast implants.

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Speaker 2: You know what I was confused about, Jesse. She was

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Speaker 2: wearing a cardigan buttoned up to the neck all the

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Speaker 2: way through the video, and I kept being like, and

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Speaker 2: I'm not proud of myself with this. Show me the boobs,

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Speaker 2: show us your tits, show me the boobs I'm imagining.

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Speaker 2: And obviously this is conjecture that in the negotiation she

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Speaker 2: would have been like, I will do sponkn for your boobs,

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Speaker 2: but I will be keeping all my clothes on.

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Speaker 3: You would think the client would say, we want the

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Speaker 3: product front and center, we want that to be really highlighted,

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Speaker 3: get the boobs out, But no, she has it's a negotiation.

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Speaker 3: I guess a line in the sand. How celebrities do

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Speaker 3: or don't talk about the work they have done is

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Speaker 3: something they and the rest of the culture is navigating

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Speaker 3: in real time. Does advertising invasive surgery to your eighteen

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Speaker 3: point three million followers as though it is nothing more

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Speaker 3: than a new bra feel weird to you too?

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Speaker 1: Maya? Do you know who I was thinking about when

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Speaker 1: you started talking about this is Julia Morris because she

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Speaker 1: got and it's called an upper bleph for a plasty

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Speaker 1: where you basically get your eyelids a bit chopped out

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Speaker 1: of your eyelids so they're not so droopy, very common procedure. Now,

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Speaker 1: she wasn't sponsored, but she was very transparent about it.

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Speaker 1: And the thing is that when you've got the demands

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Speaker 1: of social media and people with public profile, people will

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Speaker 1: notice and comment if you look different. And then there

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Speaker 1: are some people like Indick Clinton who publish content all

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Speaker 1: the time, and if she was going to try to

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Speaker 1: hide something, she'd have to not post anything for two weeks.

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Speaker 1: So I always I'm in favor of transparency. I think

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Speaker 1: transparency is great. Where it gets a little bit conflicting

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Speaker 1: is when it's sponsored. And listening to that was really

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Speaker 1: helpful listening to that because I found what Julia Morris

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Speaker 1: did really helpful.

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Speaker 2: When you've got.

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Speaker 1: Salma Hayek and Meghan Traina being paid to say stuff.

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Speaker 1: It's really easy to infuse that with their actual personal testimonial.

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Speaker 1: But a breast augmentation and lift is a really big deal.

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Speaker 1: I've had friends who've had even just reductions and any

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Speaker 1: kind of surgery. There's a lot of recovery and it's

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Speaker 1: always a lot more than you think it's going to be.

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Speaker 1: And obviously that gets brushed down into the carpet because

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Speaker 1: when you're sponsored, you only talk about the good stuff.

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Speaker 1: So I feel like maybe I like the transparency part

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Speaker 1: of it, but it's not completely transparent because it just

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Speaker 1: really is spin.

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Speaker 2: I agree with me or on that, because we should

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Speaker 2: be clear that here in Australia we actually have very

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Speaker 2: strict regulations about what you can and can't promote when

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Speaker 2: it comes to cosmetic procedures and even some cosmetic products

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Speaker 2: like sunscreen. So this isn't necessarily all content that you

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Speaker 2: would be able to see in quite the same way here.

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Speaker 2: But that's the problem is that we all know and

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Speaker 2: everybody does know this. I think we've become much more

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Speaker 2: digitally literate around this, but.

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Speaker 1: Hol I've got a question, we do see it here

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Speaker 1: right because they go on social media and talk about it.

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Speaker 2: You do see it here, but there are very strict rules.

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Speaker 2: So there are some brand names you can't use, there

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Speaker 2: are some things you cannot advocate for. You can say

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Speaker 2: that you've used it, but you can't necessarily say that

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Speaker 2: it worked. Like there's a lot of different guidelines around it.

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Speaker 1: But we can still see what Meghan Trainer says and

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Speaker 1: what Sama says, right, Like, it's not blocked in Australia.

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Speaker 2: No, no, it's not blocked, but that's not Australian approved content,

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Speaker 2: got it. It wouldn't be approved here. But the thing

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Speaker 2: is is for exactly the reasons that you say that,

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Speaker 2: we know that when you make a deal to do

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Speaker 2: sponsored content, whatever it is, you agree what you are

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Speaker 2: and aren't going to say. It doesn't mean that it's

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Speaker 2: not honest to a point, but it means that you

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Speaker 2: might airbrush certain things, and that is clearly what's going

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Speaker 2: on here. I don't really have a problem with it,

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Speaker 2: except for the fact that it clearly signals a mainstreaming

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Speaker 2: of quite serious procedures. But I think that's happening anyway.

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Speaker 2: Like I think that things that we used to think

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Speaker 2: were quite extreme, whether that be injections or weight loss

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Speaker 2: drugs or whatever. We used to maybe think we're sort

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Speaker 2: of for the one percent. As that trickles down and

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Speaker 2: becomes more available and cheaper and more democratized, then of

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Speaker 2: course everybody wants to find new ways to sell it

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Speaker 2: to you. I don't know, it still feels strange to

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Speaker 2: be like, I remember when Gwyneth Paltrow didn't out now

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Speaker 2: add for a particular type of anti wrinkle injector that

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Speaker 2: she was claiming was more natural than some others, and

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Speaker 2: listening to it, and I think we've got a grab.

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Speaker 2: We can plain in a bit. But it's jarring because

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Speaker 2: you're just like, oh, you're actually selling me things to

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Speaker 2: put inside myself. It just feels a bit icky, but

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Speaker 2: I think it's inevitable.

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Speaker 7: I ad met I wasn't a fan of anti wrinkle injections.

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Speaker 5: Then I found one.

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Speaker 2: It's different, one that's uniquely purified.

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Speaker 3: It does feel like we're going that way, and I'm

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Speaker 3: with Maya that the stakes feel a lot higher when

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Speaker 3: someone is going under an anesthetic and we know about

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Speaker 3: things like breast implant illness. Right as you say, what

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Speaker 3: we're not seeing with Megan Trainer is the recovery. In fact,

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Speaker 3: she's saying it was really quick, it was really easy.

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Speaker 3: I couldn't believe how good I felt. And you think, well,

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Speaker 3: if it wasn't any of those things, you wouldn't really

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Speaker 3: be able to say. I feel quite differently about Samahayak though,

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Speaker 3: because it's non invasive, and I'm grappling with where my

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Speaker 3: line is and why. And it made me think of

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Speaker 3: there were a few Australian influences a few years ago

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Speaker 3: who worked with a very famous Australian cosmetic surgeon. It

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Speaker 3: was very unclear whether they got discounted treatments in exchange

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Speaker 3: for maybe collaborating or sharing their image, and there were

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Speaker 3: tummy tucks and breast augmentation, and they cited this particular

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Speaker 3: doctor and he now has a class action suit out

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Speaker 3: against him.

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Speaker 1: Do you mean from women who had procedures that didn't

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Speaker 1: go very.

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Speaker 3: Well, exactly right, really really serious complications and really serious allegations.

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Speaker 1: It's easier to think, oh, you know, it's all great

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Speaker 1: and I had it and blah blah blah, and what

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Speaker 1: the internet doesn't always show the reality.

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Speaker 3: You're right, and it feels different. I remember Kelly McCarron,

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Speaker 3: who is the host of New Beauty and is on

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Speaker 3: a bunch of Mum Maya podcasts. She a few years

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Speaker 3: ago showed a realistic recovery from a nose job. I

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Speaker 3: had never seen anything like that. It was so candid.

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Speaker 3: It was the bruising, it was the packing, it was

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Speaker 3: the months of recovery. The honesty was so refreshing because

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Speaker 3: she wasn't trying to sell us anything, which I think

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Speaker 3: to your point, Mea is Julia Morris as well. There's

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Speaker 3: a transparency to that. But when your message has to

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Speaker 3: be filtered because you're being paid, and we also don't

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Speaker 3: know the specifics of the co tract right, like were

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Speaker 3: you going to get this surgery anyway? Was a surgery

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Speaker 3: paid for or you then paid on top for all

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Speaker 3: of those things. I think we kind of have to

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Speaker 3: know if we're going to get spon con for having

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Speaker 3: your body cut open.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a bit ethically murky, isn't it. It was

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Speaker 1: interesting because a couple of weeks ago and halfaway turned

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Speaker 1: up at a fashion show in Paris, and there was

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Speaker 1: a lot of talk on the internet about her having

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Speaker 1: a new face, and there were cosmetic surgeons who had

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Speaker 1: not operated on her and she has not made any

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Speaker 1: comment about it. But in the same way that people

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Speaker 1: apply their forensic lenses to true crime stories, people also

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Speaker 1: do that to the faces of women in the public

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Speaker 1: eye often. And there were a whole lot of postmade

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Speaker 1: and cosmetic surgeons coming out and saying here's what I

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Speaker 1: think she's had done, and this and this and this,

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Speaker 1: and then there were close ups of what people said

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Speaker 1: was some filler in her jaw, and everyone was trying

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Speaker 1: to figure it out.

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Speaker 8: We need to talk about and Hathaway's facial changes, because

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Speaker 8: she is looking exceptional. This is her yesterday and she's

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Speaker 8: looking different. So let's talk about what I think she's

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Speaker 8: had done. This is Anne in two thousand and seven,

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Speaker 8: and she's always been well known to have very elegant

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Speaker 8: and feminine looking features that are well proportioned. In twenty

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Speaker 8: twenty three, we can see some very subtle signs of

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Speaker 8: aging in the mid and lower face now at the

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Speaker 8: age of forty two. To achieve this appearance, I think

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Speaker 8: she's had botox, a surgical browlift, upper blephoplasty, rhinoplasty, lit filler,

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Speaker 8: and within the last nine to twelve months, possibly a

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Speaker 8: deep plane face and necklift.

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Speaker 1: There's two ways to look at it. There's the way

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Speaker 1: of saying, well, that's really mean we should just not

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Speaker 1: talk about women's faces and we should leave women alone,

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Speaker 1: and I totally get that. Then there's the idea that

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Speaker 1: if we aren't allowed to notice that women who are

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Speaker 1: in their forties and fifties and even sixties look like

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Speaker 1: they're in their twenties and thirties, if we're not even

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Speaker 1: allowed to notice that and wonder how they've done it,

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Speaker 1: then what effect does that have on us?

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Speaker 3: I understand the reluctance to say specifically what you've had done, though,

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Speaker 3: because what is your line between transparency and BBC and

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Speaker 3: well and being instructive? Right because Indy Clinton, for example,

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Speaker 3: was trying to be very clear, I've had this done

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Speaker 3: some reasons I'll share with you, maybe some reasons that

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Speaker 3: aren't any of our business, but I'm not telling you

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Speaker 3: that you need a nose job. And you could see

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Speaker 3: with Meghan Trainer's messaging it was a bit like I saw.

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Speaker 3: I'm wondering if it was Megan Note with someone else

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Speaker 3: I saw who had done spon con with Maybe it

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Speaker 3: was light posuction and they had a part of their

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Speaker 3: caption that said, if something bothers you three times a day,

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Speaker 3: change it, and I thought, oh, that is so that

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Speaker 3: so toxic.

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Speaker 2: Meghan's message is interesting because it's when she says, you know,

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Speaker 2: I'm working really hard and I'm mumming really hard, and

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Speaker 2: I wanted to do something just for me. It's like

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Speaker 2: repositioning surgery or self care. That's really interesting too. But

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Speaker 2: to Hathaway. The thing that I have an issue with

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Speaker 2: about that is I think that it's an entirely different

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Speaker 2: thing when people tell you what they're doing or they're

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Speaker 2: open about it, all those things to being forensically invasive

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Speaker 2: on a woman's face, like we have no idea what

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Speaker 2: Unhathaway did to her face or if she did anything

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Speaker 2: to her face. And everybody's there with their zoom in's

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Speaker 2: and their circles, and these days, you know, the A list,

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Speaker 2: the pinnacle of beauty. The people we hold up as

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Speaker 2: a pinnacle beauty have access to all As I just said,

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Speaker 2: that will all trickle down eventually, but they have access

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Speaker 2: to things we don't even know about, and they're getting

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Speaker 2: all kinds of infusions and injections and peptides and this

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Speaker 2: and that, and it's like, what do we want from them,

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Speaker 2: you know, do we want X rays and blood types?

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Speaker 2: And like, it's just I do have a problem with

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Speaker 2: acause I think it turns up the surveillance on every woman,

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Speaker 2: which we already weighs really heavily on us.

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Speaker 6: All.

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Speaker 3: How do you two feel about this?

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Speaker 6: Right?

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Speaker 3: If you went to Megan Trainer's link in bio where

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Speaker 3: she will tell you all about the implant trademark, blah

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Speaker 3: blah blah. Is there a disc code, mayor there's a

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Speaker 3: discount code? Oh, you too can get two hundred and

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Speaker 3: fifty dollars off your breast augmentation. Oh how do you

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Speaker 3: feel about that?

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Speaker 2: Not good?

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Speaker 1: I don't feel good because then, also, what responses if

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Speaker 1: I go and get her discount code and use it

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Speaker 1: and my boob job goes horribly wrong, or I die

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Speaker 1: under an esthetic or something happens. What is her responsibility there? Like,

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Speaker 1: I know, legally probably nothing, but ethically encouraging someone to

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Speaker 1: have cosmetic surgery. Yeah with a discount code. Wow, out louders.

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00:19:48,462 --> 00:19:51,222
Speaker 1: In a moment, something for your face, something smart to watch,

380
00:19:51,262 --> 00:19:54,222
Speaker 1: and an audio book that Holly's got inter ears right

381
00:19:54,262 --> 00:20:01,502
Speaker 1: now in his recommendations, outlauders, we've got a listener dilemma,

382
00:20:01,621 --> 00:20:03,901
Speaker 1: and we need your collective wisdom to help us and

383
00:20:03,942 --> 00:20:07,022
Speaker 1: our partners at UI solve it. So here's the problem

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Speaker 1: from our listener. I'm a mother to a beautiful three

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Speaker 1: month baby. My partner and I decided before our child

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Speaker 1: was born that we wouldn't share photos on social media

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Speaker 1: for privacy reasons. We made this very clear to both

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Speaker 1: our families, including my mother in law. Last week, I

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Speaker 1: was scrolling through Facebook when I discovered she's posted dozens

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Speaker 1: of photos of our baby, including bathtime pictures and private

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Speaker 1: family moments. And when I reminded her of our rule,

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Speaker 1: she just left it off, saying everyone loves seeing the

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Speaker 1: photos and that she's just a proud grandmother. My partner

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Speaker 1: doesn't want to cause family drama and suggested we let

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Speaker 1: it go let them. But yesterday I noticed she's created

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Speaker 1: a dedicated my Precious Grandchild album that she regularly updates.

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Speaker 1: I value our relationship, but this feels like she's completely

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Speaker 1: ignoring our wishes as parents. But the question is what

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Speaker 1: do you do next?

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Speaker 3: I have the answer. I have the definitive answer. I

401
00:20:59,141 --> 00:21:00,542
Speaker 3: don't even need your input. Do you want know what

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00:21:00,621 --> 00:21:00,861
Speaker 3: it is?

403
00:21:00,982 --> 00:21:01,182
Speaker 2: Yes?

404
00:21:01,182 --> 00:21:05,382
Speaker 3: Please your husband, partner, even you, if you want to.

405
00:21:06,182 --> 00:21:09,742
Speaker 3: When she is not looking, you take her phone, take

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00:21:09,742 --> 00:21:12,501
Speaker 3: her phone, you change her settings, and you change her

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00:21:12,542 --> 00:21:15,141
Speaker 3: settings on Facebook so that a select group of people

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00:21:15,182 --> 00:21:17,461
Speaker 3: can see those photos. Just make sure that it's super private.

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Speaker 3: Maybe it's a few family members, or maybe it's the

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Speaker 3: one hundred friends that she has on Facebook, and no

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Speaker 3: one else can see it, and then you move on

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Speaker 3: with your life. It's coming from a really good place.

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Speaker 3: She's very proud. I understand the reluctance, because you go,

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Speaker 3: I don't know whose hands these photos are going to

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Speaker 3: end up in. I totally get it. But years ago,

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Speaker 3: I think the four of us kids went on to

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Speaker 3: Mum's Facebook tweaked a few settings. She got upset. She said,

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Speaker 3: no one's like I'm a post anymore. And I was like,

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Speaker 3: you can't imagine why. I don't know why.

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Speaker 1: And stevens, my engagements dropped and not happy.

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00:21:51,502 --> 00:21:54,581
Speaker 3: It must be the algorithm. No, no, no, we fiddled

422
00:21:54,621 --> 00:21:57,501
Speaker 3: with your settings. Sometimes you need a little settings fiddle

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Speaker 3: to solve family drama.

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Speaker 2: That's really good advice. It's much better than mine, because

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Speaker 2: I was just going to make you a partner, go

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Speaker 2: and have a fight with his mother, Yours is much better,

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00:22:07,022 --> 00:22:09,941
Speaker 2: much better. Advice out loud as what would you do?

428
00:22:10,462 --> 00:22:12,941
Speaker 2: Share your thoughts in the Mama Mia outloud Facebook group

429
00:22:13,101 --> 00:22:15,662
Speaker 2: and also share any dilemmas that you want our help

430
00:22:15,742 --> 00:22:17,821
Speaker 2: with in the Facebook group or email us at out

431
00:22:17,861 --> 00:22:19,901
Speaker 2: loud at momamea dot com dot au.

432
00:22:21,262 --> 00:22:25,181
Speaker 5: Vibes, ideas, atmosphere, something casual, something fun.

433
00:22:25,702 --> 00:22:27,222
Speaker 1: This is my best recommendation.

434
00:22:28,542 --> 00:22:30,461
Speaker 2: It's Friday, so we want to help set up your

435
00:22:30,502 --> 00:22:34,302
Speaker 2: weekend with our very best recommendations. Who wants to go first?

436
00:22:34,861 --> 00:22:39,941
Speaker 2: I'll go first. You know how I'm loving audiobooks at

437
00:22:39,982 --> 00:22:43,461
Speaker 2: the moment, particularly memoir right. For me, audiobooks are at

438
00:22:43,502 --> 00:22:45,902
Speaker 2: their absolute best when it comes to memoirs.

439
00:22:46,022 --> 00:22:48,181
Speaker 1: I want to ask you about that because I agree

440
00:22:48,302 --> 00:22:51,302
Speaker 1: I struggle with fiction on audiobooks.

441
00:22:51,381 --> 00:22:55,221
Speaker 2: It really depends on the voice. So I've listened to

442
00:22:55,302 --> 00:22:57,621
Speaker 2: Demon Copperhead, which is one of my favorite ever books.

443
00:22:57,661 --> 00:22:59,741
Speaker 2: I listened to that as fiction and they have this

444
00:22:59,861 --> 00:23:03,102
Speaker 2: amazing actor. Lots of people are saying they enjoy our

445
00:23:03,141 --> 00:23:05,941
Speaker 2: fiction Jesse on audio because I guess they're already audio

446
00:23:06,821 --> 00:23:10,422
Speaker 2: trained people. But it's all about the act. But I

447
00:23:10,462 --> 00:23:14,061
Speaker 2: agree with Youmir that for me, nonfiction and memoir in

448
00:23:14,101 --> 00:23:19,341
Speaker 2: particular is really good in audio. So I'm listening to

449
00:23:19,901 --> 00:23:22,901
Speaker 2: a very famous Ish book. It's been out for a while.

450
00:23:23,022 --> 00:23:26,262
Speaker 2: Mea recommended it to me weeks ago, called Careless People,

451
00:23:26,621 --> 00:23:30,262
Speaker 2: and it's by a New Zealand woman called Sarah Williams.

452
00:23:30,381 --> 00:23:32,341
Speaker 2: If it sounds familiar to you, but you're not sure why,

453
00:23:32,861 --> 00:23:35,141
Speaker 2: it would have been roundly promoted as the fact that

454
00:23:35,182 --> 00:23:38,821
Speaker 2: she was the Facebook whistleblower. So Sarah win Williams is

455
00:23:38,861 --> 00:23:42,502
Speaker 2: a young Ish Kiwi as I said, young idealistic woman

456
00:23:42,542 --> 00:23:45,421
Speaker 2: who wanted desperately to go and work at Facebook in

457
00:23:45,502 --> 00:23:48,581
Speaker 2: its early days. In its earliest days, she'd already managed

458
00:23:48,621 --> 00:23:50,262
Speaker 2: to get her way to Washington, d C. Where she

459
00:23:50,341 --> 00:23:52,462
Speaker 2: was working as a diplomat in the New Zealand Embassy,

460
00:23:52,702 --> 00:23:54,582
Speaker 2: a job which she said was not that busy really,

461
00:23:54,621 --> 00:23:58,302
Speaker 2: because no one cared about New Zealand in America. These

462
00:23:58,302 --> 00:24:01,182
Speaker 2: are her words, not mine. And she saw this shiny

463
00:24:01,302 --> 00:24:04,621
Speaker 2: citadel of you know, new media and social media and

464
00:24:04,982 --> 00:24:07,382
Speaker 2: thought what it could do for democracy and all this stuff,

465
00:24:07,702 --> 00:24:11,622
Speaker 2: and went to work there right. What follows is an

466
00:24:11,621 --> 00:24:15,022
Speaker 2: account of basically her working at relatively high levels at Facebook.

467
00:24:15,101 --> 00:24:18,141
Speaker 2: She became their kind of international envoy. So she was

468
00:24:18,182 --> 00:24:21,102
Speaker 2: the person who had to go into Myanmar, for example,

469
00:24:21,141 --> 00:24:25,022
Speaker 2: and try and talk the government into allowing Facebook to

470
00:24:25,022 --> 00:24:28,101
Speaker 2: be open there, or you know, introduced Mark Zuckerberg to

471
00:24:28,182 --> 00:24:32,222
Speaker 2: presidents of various countries, greased the wheels of international diplomacy,

472
00:24:32,422 --> 00:24:35,302
Speaker 2: and over her time there, that job becomes bigger and

473
00:24:35,302 --> 00:24:38,661
Speaker 2: bigger as Facebook's influence grows. Now, that's all great, but

474
00:24:38,782 --> 00:24:43,101
Speaker 2: it doesn't sound that sexy. But this book, in my opinion,

475
00:24:43,581 --> 00:24:45,821
Speaker 2: is so well written and so sexy that it works

476
00:24:45,821 --> 00:24:48,142
Speaker 2: on lots of different levels. It also is the story

477
00:24:48,542 --> 00:24:52,901
Speaker 2: of an idealistic, workaholic young woman who absolutely loves her job,

478
00:24:53,422 --> 00:24:55,821
Speaker 2: coming slap bang up to the reality of what it

479
00:24:55,901 --> 00:24:58,582
Speaker 2: means to work that hard when then you have a family,

480
00:24:59,262 --> 00:25:01,942
Speaker 2: and suddenly, like Sheryl Samberg's telling her that she needs

481
00:25:01,942 --> 00:25:04,061
Speaker 2: to hire a nanny and stop talking about her baby

482
00:25:04,061 --> 00:25:06,701
Speaker 2: in the office, she comes up against all kinds of

483
00:25:06,742 --> 00:25:11,502
Speaker 2: slightly strange sexual innuendo. She's expected to put herself in

484
00:25:11,542 --> 00:25:13,542
Speaker 2: harm's way and put the job above all things. Ever,

485
00:25:13,542 --> 00:25:16,621
Speaker 2: her husband starts going, what are you doing with your life?

486
00:25:16,661 --> 00:25:18,741
Speaker 2: And it's just I just loved it.

487
00:25:18,821 --> 00:25:21,022
Speaker 3: Can I just ask? Because I've listened to a few

488
00:25:21,061 --> 00:25:23,861
Speaker 3: interviews with her, and I'm gonna be honest, sometimes instead

489
00:25:23,861 --> 00:25:26,381
Speaker 3: of reading the book, I just listened to podcast interviews

490
00:25:26,621 --> 00:25:28,701
Speaker 3: with authors where I'm interested in their work. Do you

491
00:25:28,782 --> 00:25:32,022
Speaker 3: think this is a book where it's worth actually listening

492
00:25:32,101 --> 00:25:32,742
Speaker 3: to the whole book.

493
00:25:32,901 --> 00:25:35,502
Speaker 2: Well, for me, it is, because I'd listened to podcast

494
00:25:35,502 --> 00:25:37,421
Speaker 2: interviews too. And the thing is that, obviously we know

495
00:25:37,502 --> 00:25:40,701
Speaker 2: this because we conduct podcast interviews. You can't get everything in,

496
00:25:40,821 --> 00:25:43,262
Speaker 2: so you choose an angle and go with it. Obviously,

497
00:25:43,262 --> 00:25:47,381
Speaker 2: there's really interesting, deep stuff here about Facebook's responsibility in

498
00:25:47,422 --> 00:25:50,502
Speaker 2: political situations in developing countries, So if you're interested in that,

499
00:25:50,542 --> 00:25:53,901
Speaker 2: it's there. But the stuff that really grabbed me more

500
00:25:54,022 --> 00:25:56,701
Speaker 2: was the personal stuff and the personal cost and also

501
00:25:57,222 --> 00:26:00,581
Speaker 2: the process of watching, like the scales fall from someone's eyes.

502
00:26:01,101 --> 00:26:03,422
Speaker 2: What did you think, Mia, Yeah, it took quite a long.

503
00:26:03,262 --> 00:26:06,101
Speaker 1: Time for the scales to fall. I really liked it

504
00:26:06,141 --> 00:26:08,782
Speaker 1: at first. I agree it's written in a really engaging way,

505
00:26:09,101 --> 00:26:11,861
Speaker 1: and we should say, of course, Facebook have said a

506
00:26:11,901 --> 00:26:13,821
Speaker 1: lot of the book is not true, and there are

507
00:26:13,821 --> 00:26:14,342
Speaker 1: parts of.

508
00:26:14,302 --> 00:26:16,781
Speaker 2: The book that is true, but they've tried to block it.

509
00:26:16,861 --> 00:26:19,462
Speaker 1: There's been legal action and tried to stop her from

510
00:26:19,502 --> 00:26:22,542
Speaker 1: doing interviews about it. Tried to get it poulped I

511
00:26:22,621 --> 00:26:25,502
Speaker 1: also have read from you know, some journalists who just

512
00:26:25,581 --> 00:26:28,782
Speaker 1: have discredited her a little bit. But I think it's

513
00:26:28,821 --> 00:26:32,782
Speaker 1: a really interesting story because it's the story about a

514
00:26:32,901 --> 00:26:35,022
Speaker 1: time like she's in the room where it happens, or

515
00:26:35,061 --> 00:26:37,181
Speaker 1: she was in the room where it happens at a

516
00:26:37,262 --> 00:26:40,182
Speaker 1: time when Facebook went from a sort of a social

517
00:26:40,222 --> 00:26:44,141
Speaker 1: media app to being a global superpower. She was there

518
00:26:44,182 --> 00:26:47,381
Speaker 1: in that transition and worked very closely with Cheryl, and

519
00:26:47,502 --> 00:26:50,222
Speaker 1: when Cheryl became Cheryl Sandberg and threw lean in the

520
00:26:50,302 --> 00:26:51,982
Speaker 1: launch of Leanin, and.

521
00:26:52,222 --> 00:26:55,622
Speaker 2: She's actually very funny about that. Mia. When Cheryl's promoting

522
00:26:55,702 --> 00:26:58,622
Speaker 2: lean in, all the female Facebook executives and there aren't

523
00:26:58,661 --> 00:27:01,222
Speaker 2: actually that many at that point, I have to help her.

524
00:27:01,462 --> 00:27:03,302
Speaker 2: They have to turn up to all the launches and

525
00:27:03,341 --> 00:27:05,942
Speaker 2: do all the jobs that Cheryl basically says women shouldn't

526
00:27:05,982 --> 00:27:08,302
Speaker 2: do when they're at work, like hand out the name

527
00:27:08,381 --> 00:27:10,741
Speaker 2: tags off around the cup and she's like, hold on,

528
00:27:11,302 --> 00:27:14,502
Speaker 2: I like an international diplomat. It's very funny. But she's pregnant,

529
00:27:14,502 --> 00:27:15,742
Speaker 2: so she's really good vision.

530
00:27:16,061 --> 00:27:18,381
Speaker 1: She's great, and she has to try and get the

531
00:27:18,381 --> 00:27:21,981
Speaker 1: world leaders to be photographed next to Cheryl holding Cheryl's books.

532
00:27:22,702 --> 00:27:26,901
Speaker 1: Chinese president stuff anyway, and you know there's some salacious

533
00:27:26,901 --> 00:27:30,182
Speaker 1: stuff in there about like Mark Zuckerberg offering to name

534
00:27:30,302 --> 00:27:35,262
Speaker 1: his firstborn after President she in China. But it's really interesting.

535
00:27:35,341 --> 00:27:37,022
Speaker 1: I have to say I didn't finish it. I was

536
00:27:37,061 --> 00:27:39,621
Speaker 1: listening also on audiobook, and I got about two thirds

537
00:27:39,621 --> 00:27:41,661
Speaker 1: of the way and then I just it was feeling

538
00:27:41,661 --> 00:27:43,181
Speaker 1: a little bit repetitive to me, and I sort of

539
00:27:43,182 --> 00:27:46,461
Speaker 1: wandered off. But it's definitely if you're interested in tech

540
00:27:46,581 --> 00:27:49,662
Speaker 1: and that world. It's not too techy, but a kind

541
00:27:49,702 --> 00:27:53,581
Speaker 1: of a real life, funny business memoir. It's pretty gripping.

542
00:27:53,942 --> 00:27:55,141
Speaker 3: Maya, what's your recommendation.

543
00:27:55,502 --> 00:28:00,702
Speaker 1: My recommendation is a moisturizer. I have, as out loud

544
00:28:00,702 --> 00:28:03,022
Speaker 1: as may know, been struggling with roseasia for the last

545
00:28:03,101 --> 00:28:06,422
Speaker 1: year or so, which is so boring. I've been having

546
00:28:06,462 --> 00:28:09,141
Speaker 1: bits of laser for it. Here's my discount code. No,

547
00:28:10,702 --> 00:28:15,021
Speaker 1: but something that my dermatologist recommended, because when you've got

548
00:28:15,101 --> 00:28:18,581
Speaker 1: roseasia and your skin feels sore and irritated, what you

549
00:28:18,742 --> 00:28:21,302
Speaker 1: think you want to do is to put really sort

550
00:28:21,341 --> 00:28:25,621
Speaker 1: of thick, calming heavy creams on it, or oils or

551
00:28:25,621 --> 00:28:28,981
Speaker 1: something because it can feel sort of so sore, but

552
00:28:29,141 --> 00:28:31,622
Speaker 1: that's actually terrible for it. You need to not put

553
00:28:31,702 --> 00:28:35,862
Speaker 1: heavy creams or oils on roseatia skin when it's flaring up.

554
00:28:35,942 --> 00:28:41,342
Speaker 1: So there's a product by laroche Pose called Toleran probably

555
00:28:41,462 --> 00:28:44,822
Speaker 1: you say it in French, and it's basically for rosetia.

556
00:28:44,942 --> 00:28:48,181
Speaker 1: It's called visible redness reducing cream. I've had to pretty

557
00:28:48,262 --> 00:28:53,742
Speaker 1: much stop using serums or anything on my cheeks, which

558
00:28:53,822 --> 00:28:58,542
Speaker 1: is thanks for your sympathetic I know, I know, I

559
00:28:58,582 --> 00:29:01,222
Speaker 1: see them too hard, and it's not something that really

560
00:29:01,222 --> 00:29:02,902
Speaker 1: goes away. It's just something that you have to kind

561
00:29:02,902 --> 00:29:05,302
Speaker 1: of adapt to, and so it's really blown up my

562
00:29:05,342 --> 00:29:08,822
Speaker 1: whole skin routine. But in the day, this Tolerian by

563
00:29:08,982 --> 00:29:12,702
Speaker 1: Lauchep is just a really good calming thing to put

564
00:29:12,782 --> 00:29:14,782
Speaker 1: under makeup, to put you know, it's pretty much the

565
00:29:14,822 --> 00:29:17,022
Speaker 1: only skincare I can news on my cheeks now. Anyway.

566
00:29:17,022 --> 00:29:18,542
Speaker 1: You can just get it from the chemist. Lauris Pose

567
00:29:18,742 --> 00:29:21,421
Speaker 1: is a great basic brand for anyone particular who's got

568
00:29:21,502 --> 00:29:24,461
Speaker 1: sensitive skin issues. It's not prescription or anything, but like

569
00:29:24,542 --> 00:29:27,102
Speaker 1: any skincare, check the label to make sure it's the

570
00:29:27,142 --> 00:29:29,182
Speaker 1: right thing for you. Don't take my word for it,

571
00:29:29,262 --> 00:29:30,622
Speaker 1: and there is no discarnt code.

572
00:29:30,782 --> 00:29:34,902
Speaker 3: My recommendation this week is a newsletter, and it is

573
00:29:34,942 --> 00:29:39,142
Speaker 3: the newsletter I've noticed that I always open, so I

574
00:29:39,222 --> 00:29:42,742
Speaker 3: subscribed a while ago out loud as might remember, especially

575
00:29:42,862 --> 00:29:46,181
Speaker 3: during pregnancy, I got very into Emily Osta. And Emily

576
00:29:46,222 --> 00:29:49,302
Speaker 3: Osta she is the patron saint of pregnant women. She

577
00:29:49,542 --> 00:29:51,942
Speaker 3: is a woman who gives you all the data on

578
00:29:52,422 --> 00:29:55,062
Speaker 3: how much coffee you can drink, what exercise to do

579
00:29:55,182 --> 00:29:58,421
Speaker 3: during pregnancy. And she does all of that because she

580
00:29:58,661 --> 00:30:03,421
Speaker 3: has a PhD in economics from Harvard.

581
00:30:03,382 --> 00:30:05,582
Speaker 2: So she vibes than not vibes.

582
00:30:05,622 --> 00:30:08,022
Speaker 3: It is all data. And if you are a data

583
00:30:08,102 --> 00:30:12,702
Speaker 3: driven person who just wants the information given to you plainly,

584
00:30:12,902 --> 00:30:16,862
Speaker 3: without opinion, without spin, and without being sold anything, then

585
00:30:17,342 --> 00:30:20,782
Speaker 3: Emily Ostra is brilliant. So she has this newsletter. It's

586
00:30:20,782 --> 00:30:23,262
Speaker 3: called parent Data. She said an email the other week

587
00:30:23,542 --> 00:30:27,582
Speaker 3: which was called why are autism rates going up? And

588
00:30:27,942 --> 00:30:32,262
Speaker 3: no opinion, no judgment, nothing. It's really really topical in

589
00:30:32,302 --> 00:30:34,102
Speaker 3: the US at the moment because of the way that

590
00:30:34,142 --> 00:30:38,741
Speaker 3: the Make America Healthy Again movement has co opted conversations

591
00:30:38,742 --> 00:30:42,062
Speaker 3: around autism. And she just presented what the data says,

592
00:30:42,742 --> 00:30:47,542
Speaker 3: what the data says about whether it's a case of

593
00:30:48,382 --> 00:30:52,862
Speaker 3: more diagnoses, whether it is more people are being born

594
00:30:52,902 --> 00:30:55,582
Speaker 3: with autism. She really goes into it and presents it

595
00:30:55,661 --> 00:30:56,262
Speaker 3: very plainly.

596
00:30:56,342 --> 00:30:57,742
Speaker 1: What does she say? What's the reason?

597
00:30:57,862 --> 00:30:59,542
Speaker 3: I mean, and this is a thing about data is

598
00:30:59,542 --> 00:31:03,862
Speaker 3: that it's quite complex, But essentially she says that it's both.

599
00:31:04,382 --> 00:31:07,342
Speaker 3: She kind of acknowledges the vaccine thing and just says

600
00:31:07,622 --> 00:31:14,462
Speaker 3: there is no data anywhere to suggest that vaccines cause autism,

601
00:31:14,462 --> 00:31:15,622
Speaker 3: and then she kind of goes on with it. It's

602
00:31:15,622 --> 00:31:17,701
Speaker 3: not an opinion, it's just like, I can give you

603
00:31:17,742 --> 00:31:20,502
Speaker 3: all of these studies, and she says that the definition

604
00:31:20,582 --> 00:31:22,662
Speaker 3: of autism changed and since then you've got a lot

605
00:31:22,661 --> 00:31:25,421
Speaker 3: of people that you know, the scope of people and

606
00:31:25,462 --> 00:31:29,102
Speaker 3: obviously people being diagnosed later in life, but that it

607
00:31:29,302 --> 00:31:31,661
Speaker 3: also looks like and this is difficult for data to

608
00:31:31,782 --> 00:31:34,302
Speaker 3: actually identify, but it does look like there are more

609
00:31:34,342 --> 00:31:38,062
Speaker 3: people who are being born with these particular issues, and

610
00:31:38,182 --> 00:31:40,102
Speaker 3: da data, I won't do it justice, but I found

611
00:31:40,142 --> 00:31:42,542
Speaker 3: it really really enlightening. And then she had a great

612
00:31:42,542 --> 00:31:45,181
Speaker 3: infographic recently that I sent a friend. It was like

613
00:31:45,222 --> 00:31:49,302
Speaker 3: a graph about how many times on average children wake

614
00:31:49,382 --> 00:31:52,262
Speaker 3: up overnight, so you know, in the first few months.

615
00:31:52,342 --> 00:31:54,542
Speaker 3: Let's say it's an average of three times in an

616
00:31:54,582 --> 00:31:57,822
Speaker 3: internet age where you only hear the horror stories and

617
00:31:57,902 --> 00:32:01,181
Speaker 3: it seems like no child ever sleeps. It is so

618
00:32:01,342 --> 00:32:04,741
Speaker 3: refreshing to see that and go for most families by

619
00:32:04,782 --> 00:32:08,382
Speaker 3: the time a child is too they're sleeping through the night.

620
00:32:08,822 --> 00:32:11,701
Speaker 3: Like she's just very, very matter of fact, love her work.

621
00:32:12,062 --> 00:32:14,822
Speaker 3: She'd one on the best way to discipline a child again,

622
00:32:15,382 --> 00:32:17,382
Speaker 3: throwing in all the data, She'll say, we don't know

623
00:32:17,422 --> 00:32:20,462
Speaker 3: about this. We know that smacking isn't great, that kind

624
00:32:20,502 --> 00:32:24,102
Speaker 3: of thing, like, she's just fantastic. So that's parent data

625
00:32:24,182 --> 00:32:26,622
Speaker 3: by Emily Osta. A bit off. It's behind a pay wall,

626
00:32:26,982 --> 00:32:28,582
Speaker 3: but I don't pay for it. I just get the

627
00:32:28,582 --> 00:32:32,862
Speaker 3: free ones and I find them fantastic. After the break,

628
00:32:32,942 --> 00:32:35,302
Speaker 3: we share the highs and lows of our week in

629
00:32:35,382 --> 00:32:36,422
Speaker 3: Best and Worst.

630
00:32:36,862 --> 00:32:40,622
Speaker 2: One unlimited out loud access. We drop episodes every Tuesday

631
00:32:40,661 --> 00:32:44,742
Speaker 2: and Thursday exclusively for Mamma Mia subscribers. Follow the link

632
00:32:44,742 --> 00:32:46,502
Speaker 2: of the show notes to get us in your ears

633
00:32:46,782 --> 00:32:49,502
Speaker 2: five days a week. And a huge thank you to

634
00:32:49,702 --> 00:32:51,701
Speaker 2: all our current subscribers.

635
00:33:00,942 --> 00:33:02,742
Speaker 3: It's time for Best and Worse. This is the part

636
00:33:02,782 --> 00:33:05,822
Speaker 3: of the show where we share a little bit about

637
00:33:05,822 --> 00:33:09,661
Speaker 3: our personal lives. Holly, what was your worst this week?

638
00:33:10,062 --> 00:33:11,782
Speaker 2: So it's a bit of a tongue in cheek worst,

639
00:33:11,782 --> 00:33:14,182
Speaker 2: but I really need to workshop it, particularly with Mia,

640
00:33:14,622 --> 00:33:18,102
Speaker 2: and that is that I recorded an episode of Mid

641
00:33:18,262 --> 00:33:21,022
Speaker 2: this week, which, as many outlouders would probably know, is

642
00:33:21,022 --> 00:33:23,702
Speaker 2: the other podcast I host conversations for gen X women

643
00:33:23,862 --> 00:33:27,462
Speaker 2: who are anything but where I got my style roasted.

644
00:33:28,062 --> 00:33:32,542
Speaker 2: So it was an episode about fashion and clothes and

645
00:33:32,822 --> 00:33:35,542
Speaker 2: I did it with this amazing woman called Grace Lamb,

646
00:33:35,542 --> 00:33:37,662
Speaker 2: who we actually had on the last season of Mid

647
00:33:37,702 --> 00:33:41,461
Speaker 2: talking about hormones. But she is a former editorial director

648
00:33:41,462 --> 00:33:44,782
Speaker 2: at Vogue. She's a real fashion guru type who now

649
00:33:44,862 --> 00:33:46,902
Speaker 2: lives back in Australia. She's lived all over the world

650
00:33:47,262 --> 00:33:51,461
Speaker 2: and she advises women, particularly slightly older women over forties

651
00:33:51,462 --> 00:33:52,421
Speaker 2: women about what touet?

652
00:33:52,542 --> 00:33:53,741
Speaker 3: What did she say?

653
00:33:54,342 --> 00:33:57,342
Speaker 2: So I sent her, as part of my homework for this,

654
00:33:57,862 --> 00:34:02,182
Speaker 2: a million selfies of me in various outfits. Right, So

655
00:34:02,222 --> 00:34:04,582
Speaker 2: I sent her all these mirror selfies that I've taken

656
00:34:04,661 --> 00:34:06,981
Speaker 2: over the last couple of years of like me thinking

657
00:34:07,022 --> 00:34:10,822
Speaker 2: I look great going to work. She was like, and

658
00:34:10,862 --> 00:34:12,422
Speaker 2: I don't want to give it all away, but she

659
00:34:12,622 --> 00:34:15,422
Speaker 2: was like, and this SWE need me as feedback. She

660
00:34:15,582 --> 00:34:19,182
Speaker 2: told me first of all, to cut my hair short, short, short,

661
00:34:19,661 --> 00:34:21,422
Speaker 2: like short, short, short.

662
00:34:21,181 --> 00:34:22,262
Speaker 3: Short like how short?

663
00:34:22,862 --> 00:34:26,022
Speaker 2: Little Bob Holly, the little bomb is what she basically

664
00:34:26,062 --> 00:34:26,701
Speaker 2: told me to do.

665
00:34:26,942 --> 00:34:27,982
Speaker 1: I'm excited about it.

666
00:34:27,982 --> 00:34:31,062
Speaker 2: Also told me to throw away my red shoes.

667
00:34:31,822 --> 00:34:33,662
Speaker 1: Oh shots fired.

668
00:34:34,062 --> 00:34:37,542
Speaker 2: She told me that my jeans, my obsession with my

669
00:34:37,542 --> 00:34:40,942
Speaker 2: wide legg jeans is fine, but they should be even wider.

670
00:34:41,982 --> 00:34:44,062
Speaker 2: And so the reason I need to ask me about

671
00:34:44,062 --> 00:34:46,822
Speaker 2: this is that are there some people who just really

672
00:34:46,822 --> 00:34:51,901
Speaker 2: want you to be cool but maybe you're not? So

673
00:34:51,982 --> 00:34:53,741
Speaker 2: I was like, I came off the call and it

674
00:34:53,781 --> 00:34:55,781
Speaker 2: was really fun, so it's a tongue in TWI. I

675
00:34:55,822 --> 00:34:58,741
Speaker 2: was also like, oh wow, all the things I thought, like,

676
00:34:58,942 --> 00:35:01,262
Speaker 2: you know, I love my long hair and blah blah blah.

677
00:35:01,261 --> 00:35:04,382
Speaker 1: You know, well I think I do don't know.

678
00:35:04,741 --> 00:35:07,062
Speaker 2: Any what do you think me? I should I be listening?

679
00:35:07,302 --> 00:35:10,742
Speaker 1: This is my view about style. If anyone is happy

680
00:35:11,261 --> 00:35:14,382
Speaker 1: with their style, I don't think you should force someone

681
00:35:14,462 --> 00:35:18,102
Speaker 1: to change it. But if you're in that kind of

682
00:35:18,181 --> 00:35:22,942
Speaker 1: in between where you just don't quite feel right in yourself,

683
00:35:23,261 --> 00:35:25,022
Speaker 1: Because when we say we've got nothing to wear. We

684
00:35:25,102 --> 00:35:27,342
Speaker 1: just mean our clothes don't match how we want to feel.

685
00:35:28,342 --> 00:35:31,062
Speaker 1: And you have been talking about whether it's getting a

686
00:35:31,062 --> 00:35:32,861
Speaker 1: fringe or getting a haircut or I don't know what

687
00:35:32,902 --> 00:35:34,741
Speaker 1: to do with my hair or whatever. So it's not

688
00:35:34,781 --> 00:35:36,661
Speaker 1: like that's out of the blue, you know what I

689
00:35:36,701 --> 00:35:38,381
Speaker 1: mean if you were like, oh no, I love my hair.

690
00:35:38,422 --> 00:35:40,701
Speaker 1: Like I know some people who their hair is their thing,

691
00:35:40,862 --> 00:35:43,421
Speaker 1: and even if it might look better a different way,

692
00:35:43,741 --> 00:35:45,782
Speaker 1: they're really happy with it and it's a very strong

693
00:35:45,862 --> 00:35:49,022
Speaker 1: part of their identity in which case have at it

694
00:35:49,102 --> 00:35:53,301
Speaker 1: don't change anything, but it depends what you want. I

695
00:35:53,462 --> 00:35:56,582
Speaker 1: love hearing what people think I should do or where

696
00:35:56,701 --> 00:35:59,062
Speaker 1: or how I should look, and then you decide which

697
00:35:59,102 --> 00:36:00,782
Speaker 1: of those things you'll take and which you won't.

698
00:36:01,622 --> 00:36:04,062
Speaker 2: It's interesting that episode will come up soon. I can't

699
00:36:04,102 --> 00:36:06,022
Speaker 2: wait for Out Loudest to weigh in and Mea to

700
00:36:06,062 --> 00:36:08,502
Speaker 2: weigh in. But I was like excited, me I would.

701
00:36:08,462 --> 00:36:09,382
Speaker 1: That's my dream.

702
00:36:10,142 --> 00:36:10,462
Speaker 6: I know.

703
00:36:10,622 --> 00:36:13,542
Speaker 2: It was fun. It was fun my best And this

704
00:36:13,661 --> 00:36:17,422
Speaker 2: is controversial because I know not everybody agrees, but I

705
00:36:17,582 --> 00:36:22,582
Speaker 2: have been watching videos of Walton Goggins on SNL.

706
00:36:23,062 --> 00:36:23,501
Speaker 3: Is he good?

707
00:36:23,622 --> 00:36:27,901
Speaker 2: And it has been making my life. Walton Goggins, as

708
00:36:28,022 --> 00:36:31,062
Speaker 2: many of us know, is the guy, the controversial guy

709
00:36:31,741 --> 00:36:35,542
Speaker 2: on White ladis Rick. The internet became briefly obsessed with

710
00:36:35,622 --> 00:36:39,381
Speaker 2: him as a kind of anti sex symbol sex symbol,

711
00:36:39,622 --> 00:36:41,822
Speaker 2: and I have to say, I'm kind of on that team.

712
00:36:41,982 --> 00:36:44,741
Speaker 2: And then he hosted SNL this week, and look, I'm

713
00:36:44,822 --> 00:36:46,862
Speaker 2: like many people, I don't love love SNL, but I

714
00:36:47,302 --> 00:36:49,221
Speaker 2: do like the way we consume it now, which is

715
00:36:49,302 --> 00:36:51,861
Speaker 2: just short clips of the best bits. And in the

716
00:36:51,942 --> 00:36:55,502
Speaker 2: introduction he gets his mother up out of the audience

717
00:36:55,862 --> 00:36:58,502
Speaker 2: and they dance together, and then he does this like

718
00:36:58,582 --> 00:37:02,622
Speaker 2: cloggy tap dance and nothing has ever been hotter in

719
00:37:02,781 --> 00:37:05,261
Speaker 2: my life. Can Daan love that guy? He makes me

720
00:37:05,302 --> 00:37:05,862
Speaker 2: so happy.

721
00:37:06,502 --> 00:37:06,701
Speaker 6: Yeah.

722
00:37:06,822 --> 00:37:09,702
Speaker 2: God, he can dance, and he's very confident, and he's

723
00:37:09,741 --> 00:37:11,781
Speaker 2: a bit where they say, people keep asking me how

724
00:37:11,781 --> 00:37:13,981
Speaker 2: it feels to suddenly be a sex symbol at fifty three,

725
00:37:14,062 --> 00:37:15,902
Speaker 2: and he's like, I have to be honest, it feels

726
00:37:15,942 --> 00:37:19,701
Speaker 2: fucking fantastic. And I'm like, I bet it does. Want

727
00:37:20,102 --> 00:37:22,741
Speaker 2: And I know that people think that maybe he did

728
00:37:22,822 --> 00:37:26,301
Speaker 2: something with a that, but we don't know. It's all

729
00:37:26,342 --> 00:37:29,142
Speaker 2: pure speculation. I don't know what it is about him,

730
00:37:29,582 --> 00:37:32,222
Speaker 2: but I may have been watching that on repeat.

731
00:37:32,302 --> 00:37:34,222
Speaker 1: Do you know what's funny is that I didn't see

732
00:37:34,221 --> 00:37:37,102
Speaker 1: it when he was on White Lotus, like because it

733
00:37:37,142 --> 00:37:39,462
Speaker 1: was his character. I wasn't familiar with him as an actor,

734
00:37:40,022 --> 00:37:45,182
Speaker 1: and I've found because I'm not attracted to depressed, sleazydoo people,

735
00:37:45,862 --> 00:37:48,221
Speaker 1: that's just not my vibe. And I know I've got

736
00:37:48,221 --> 00:37:51,062
Speaker 1: a lot of friends who are who would be like, oh,

737
00:37:51,261 --> 00:37:54,662
Speaker 1: get their nickers off for him immediately, like the character

738
00:37:54,661 --> 00:37:56,902
Speaker 1: of Rick. But when I've seen him on like the

739
00:37:56,902 --> 00:37:59,941
Speaker 1: met Galla Red Carpet and then clips from SNL, He's

740
00:38:00,022 --> 00:38:02,422
Speaker 1: looked really happy and I can see the sexy, I

741
00:38:02,422 --> 00:38:06,102
Speaker 1: can see the appeal because the darkness I've found just

742
00:38:06,142 --> 00:38:08,261
Speaker 1: a complete turn off. But yeah, he does look like

743
00:38:08,302 --> 00:38:09,781
Speaker 1: he's having the time of his life.

744
00:38:09,982 --> 00:38:12,742
Speaker 2: I think he's very polarizing, isn't he, Because some women

745
00:38:12,822 --> 00:38:15,381
Speaker 2: are just like, Eh, get him away from me, and

746
00:38:15,422 --> 00:38:18,462
Speaker 2: other women are like, oh, and I'm afraid, yeah, you're.

747
00:38:18,302 --> 00:38:20,342
Speaker 3: That guy me or what's your worst?

748
00:38:20,622 --> 00:38:25,062
Speaker 1: My worst is that I have been struggling with deadlines.

749
00:38:25,622 --> 00:38:29,462
Speaker 1: Someone said something about me just offhandedly in a joky

750
00:38:29,502 --> 00:38:32,381
Speaker 1: way a few weeks ago that really hit because it's

751
00:38:32,382 --> 00:38:34,542
Speaker 1: something that i've been feeling kind of insecure about They

752
00:38:34,582 --> 00:38:37,102
Speaker 1: said something about making announcements and not following through, not

753
00:38:37,181 --> 00:38:40,701
Speaker 1: executing on things, and I know that's something I do,

754
00:38:40,982 --> 00:38:43,821
Speaker 1: and I hate it about myself. And the reason that

755
00:38:43,862 --> 00:38:46,982
Speaker 1: I'm very suited to digital media and before that, magazines

756
00:38:47,022 --> 00:38:49,942
Speaker 1: is because they were externally imposed deadlines. Like in magazines,

757
00:38:50,661 --> 00:38:53,102
Speaker 1: the magazine has to get on the stands whether you're

758
00:38:53,142 --> 00:38:56,261
Speaker 1: ready or not, so I liked that. When I'm in

759
00:38:56,382 --> 00:38:59,661
Speaker 1: charge of my own time, I find that much much

760
00:38:59,701 --> 00:39:02,902
Speaker 1: more challenging. And because there's this project I've been bloody

761
00:39:02,902 --> 00:39:04,781
Speaker 1: talking about for so long, and there's other things that

762
00:39:04,822 --> 00:39:07,781
Speaker 1: I want to do, there's no deadline for them. And

763
00:39:07,822 --> 00:39:09,301
Speaker 1: you know, when you just don't do something for a

764
00:39:09,342 --> 00:39:12,062
Speaker 1: really long time, it just all the energy drains out

765
00:39:12,062 --> 00:39:14,102
Speaker 1: of it, and then suddenly you look at it and

766
00:39:14,142 --> 00:39:15,942
Speaker 1: you go, oh, I don't really even want to do

767
00:39:15,982 --> 00:39:19,301
Speaker 1: you anymore. I missed the window to jump through when

768
00:39:19,342 --> 00:39:22,502
Speaker 1: I was feeling really motivated, So I've been struggling with

769
00:39:22,542 --> 00:39:25,221
Speaker 1: that for a while. But my best is that I

770
00:39:25,462 --> 00:39:29,381
Speaker 1: have jumped through that window and made myself accountable and

771
00:39:29,781 --> 00:39:31,341
Speaker 1: moved forward with a whole lot of things that I

772
00:39:31,342 --> 00:39:33,662
Speaker 1: wanted to do. And just getting them out of my head.

773
00:39:34,542 --> 00:39:37,262
Speaker 1: Oh that feeling of I should, I should, I should

774
00:39:37,902 --> 00:39:40,421
Speaker 1: That's why I stopped writing books, because it's like, oh,

775
00:39:40,502 --> 00:39:42,662
Speaker 1: I should do that, I should, I should, And then

776
00:39:43,181 --> 00:39:45,862
Speaker 1: every minute that you're not working, you feel guilty.

777
00:39:45,982 --> 00:39:47,582
Speaker 2: Tell me how you did it, Tell me how you

778
00:39:47,622 --> 00:39:49,862
Speaker 2: made yourself accountable. Did you have a trick? Did you

779
00:39:49,902 --> 00:39:52,022
Speaker 2: give yourself a deadline? Did you get someone else to

780
00:39:52,022 --> 00:39:54,302
Speaker 2: give you a deadline? Because I reckon this is really common.

781
00:39:54,502 --> 00:39:56,622
Speaker 1: Yeah I did. I was in a meeting with other

782
00:39:56,661 --> 00:40:00,062
Speaker 1: people and I said give me a deadline because they're like,

783
00:40:00,102 --> 00:40:02,221
Speaker 1: what is this thing that you've been talking about? And

784
00:40:02,261 --> 00:40:04,902
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, I just need to do this. So

785
00:40:04,942 --> 00:40:07,422
Speaker 1: I told them to give me a deadline, and I

786
00:40:07,622 --> 00:40:11,221
Speaker 1: just last weekend sat down and just did it. And

787
00:40:11,261 --> 00:40:14,341
Speaker 1: it felt so good. Sometimes I trick myself and I say,

788
00:40:14,382 --> 00:40:17,142
Speaker 1: I'm just going to do it for twenty minutes. So

789
00:40:17,181 --> 00:40:19,261
Speaker 1: I started by doing that, you know, with a little

790
00:40:19,261 --> 00:40:21,261
Speaker 1: Pomedora timey can just do it on your phone. You

791
00:40:21,302 --> 00:40:23,381
Speaker 1: just go look. After twenty minutes, I can stop. And

792
00:40:23,382 --> 00:40:25,382
Speaker 1: then the thing is that it's the starting that's the

793
00:40:25,422 --> 00:40:27,982
Speaker 1: hard part. Once I was actually doing it, I got

794
00:40:27,982 --> 00:40:30,301
Speaker 1: really into it, but I just find it hard to

795
00:40:30,622 --> 00:40:33,821
Speaker 1: get into flow. So that's been my week, Jesse, What

796
00:40:33,862 --> 00:40:34,261
Speaker 1: about you?

797
00:40:34,622 --> 00:40:39,622
Speaker 3: My worst is starting the cleanout that you can't finish.

798
00:40:39,661 --> 00:40:41,862
Speaker 3: I'm doing a lot of cleaning out at the moment.

799
00:40:41,942 --> 00:40:45,501
Speaker 3: And I was looking at my bathroom cupboard and I went, look,

800
00:40:45,542 --> 00:40:49,901
Speaker 3: my medication is too high. My moisturizer is I can

801
00:40:49,942 --> 00:40:51,542
Speaker 3: never get it. I'm going to do all of this.

802
00:40:51,582 --> 00:40:53,341
Speaker 3: And I had it written down last week on my

803
00:40:53,422 --> 00:40:55,381
Speaker 3: to do list. I went, that's your weekend job. You're

804
00:40:55,382 --> 00:40:58,341
Speaker 3: going to clean out your cupboard. And I was a

805
00:40:58,342 --> 00:41:01,781
Speaker 3: particular person on Saturday morning that I no longer recognize.

806
00:41:02,142 --> 00:41:04,942
Speaker 3: But I got up and I went and I'd had

807
00:41:04,942 --> 00:41:07,462
Speaker 3: a coffee and just went, yeah, we're going to do it,

808
00:41:07,502 --> 00:41:09,542
Speaker 3: and you know, get Lerner involved, like it can be

809
00:41:09,582 --> 00:41:13,341
Speaker 3: a whole family affair. So I take everything out and

810
00:41:13,382 --> 00:41:15,622
Speaker 3: then I looked at it and went, oh, no, yeah,

811
00:41:15,622 --> 00:41:19,302
Speaker 3: it's gone. It's gone. That person has left the building.

812
00:41:19,462 --> 00:41:21,261
Speaker 3: She's gone on a plane. I don't know where she is.

813
00:41:21,302 --> 00:41:24,102
Speaker 3: But I have no desire to do this because I

814
00:41:24,142 --> 00:41:27,341
Speaker 3: think that the payoff isn't even that great. All it

815
00:41:27,422 --> 00:41:29,781
Speaker 3: is is that I can find my moisturizer. But I

816
00:41:29,822 --> 00:41:31,822
Speaker 3: can find my moisturizer now it's just in the scene.

817
00:41:32,462 --> 00:41:36,622
Speaker 3: So now it's still there, and we're a week later,

818
00:41:36,942 --> 00:41:39,661
Speaker 3: and I'm finding it very difficult to wash my hands

819
00:41:39,741 --> 00:41:42,542
Speaker 3: because there's a lot of things. And I put it

820
00:41:42,582 --> 00:41:45,381
Speaker 3: on Instagram and a lot of people said just throw

821
00:41:45,382 --> 00:41:48,142
Speaker 3: it out or put it in a bag, or just

822
00:41:48,181 --> 00:41:49,622
Speaker 3: shove it back in. It's hard.

823
00:41:49,741 --> 00:41:51,582
Speaker 1: Just shove it back in, just put it exactly where

824
00:41:51,622 --> 00:41:52,221
Speaker 1: you got it from.

825
00:41:52,422 --> 00:41:54,861
Speaker 2: That's how I feel about my fridge. You know, very

826
00:41:54,902 --> 00:41:56,502
Speaker 2: often I'll get home, I might have been away for

827
00:41:56,502 --> 00:41:58,301
Speaker 2: a couple of days, and the fridge is just like oh,

828
00:41:58,342 --> 00:42:00,741
Speaker 2: and I'm like, if I was rich, I'd just buy

829
00:42:00,781 --> 00:42:03,382
Speaker 2: another fridge.

830
00:42:01,422 --> 00:42:08,262
Speaker 3: And it's like there are two hair elastics, two retainers,

831
00:42:08,942 --> 00:42:12,381
Speaker 3: a clip, and an empty bottle of something, And I'm like,

832
00:42:12,462 --> 00:42:14,502
Speaker 3: who am I to know where these things should go?

833
00:42:14,661 --> 00:42:17,542
Speaker 3: I don't have the mental capacity to work out the

834
00:42:17,582 --> 00:42:20,582
Speaker 3: positioning of any of these things. I might just leave

835
00:42:20,622 --> 00:42:22,942
Speaker 3: my house, burn it to the ground, and just move on.

836
00:42:23,261 --> 00:42:25,341
Speaker 1: See that's when I just go onto Amazon and go

837
00:42:25,422 --> 00:42:27,741
Speaker 1: you know what I really need is some containers, some

838
00:42:27,982 --> 00:42:31,821
Speaker 1: crylic things to organize. Instead of actually organizing my life,

839
00:42:31,902 --> 00:42:36,862
Speaker 1: I'll like download an app, or I'll buy a storage container,

840
00:42:37,382 --> 00:42:41,342
Speaker 1: or I'll go to office works because that feels easier

841
00:42:41,422 --> 00:42:43,542
Speaker 1: and more interesting than actually doing their thing. Do you

842
00:42:43,542 --> 00:42:45,422
Speaker 1: know what will help you is well, you could try

843
00:42:45,462 --> 00:42:48,181
Speaker 1: the twenty minutes method, but also if you've got a

844
00:42:48,221 --> 00:42:52,501
Speaker 1: deadline to do something else that's actually important, and suddenly, yes,

845
00:42:52,582 --> 00:42:55,702
Speaker 1: you'll go you know what, I really should be cleaning

846
00:42:55,701 --> 00:42:56,502
Speaker 1: out my compas.

847
00:42:56,302 --> 00:42:57,622
Speaker 3: That's what I need to do. And someone say if

848
00:42:57,661 --> 00:42:59,142
Speaker 3: I leave it there for long enough, LUKEA will just

849
00:42:59,181 --> 00:43:00,821
Speaker 3: throw it out, which I think is actually correct.

850
00:43:00,902 --> 00:43:01,861
Speaker 1: Sign another book deal.

851
00:43:02,142 --> 00:43:04,142
Speaker 2: This has been like a procrastinator support.

852
00:43:04,261 --> 00:43:05,381
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh yeah, I like it.

853
00:43:05,462 --> 00:43:06,142
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah.

854
00:43:06,221 --> 00:43:10,062
Speaker 3: So my best is that this week I was on

855
00:43:10,302 --> 00:43:13,062
Speaker 3: a television show on the ABC called House of Games.

856
00:43:13,102 --> 00:43:16,542
Speaker 3: I filmed it a few months ago now and it

857
00:43:16,582 --> 00:43:19,742
Speaker 3: has only just come out. It's hosted by Claire Hooper

858
00:43:19,741 --> 00:43:24,701
Speaker 3: and I was on with Rays Nicholson, Gillian Cosgrove and Costa.

859
00:43:24,822 --> 00:43:26,582
Speaker 3: After Costa is just such a.

860
00:43:26,502 --> 00:43:28,701
Speaker 1: Lit He's just a human ray of sunshine.

861
00:43:29,022 --> 00:43:31,781
Speaker 3: His clothes are so cool. He has like overalls with

862
00:43:31,822 --> 00:43:34,502
Speaker 3: flowers on them. Holly, I think that's your fashion icon.

863
00:43:35,542 --> 00:43:37,342
Speaker 3: I think you should go to Costa for style.

864
00:43:37,422 --> 00:43:39,142
Speaker 1: Do you know, I met him on the red carpet

865
00:43:39,142 --> 00:43:42,661
Speaker 1: at the Logis. He's had his whole beard decorated with flowers.

866
00:43:42,942 --> 00:43:45,022
Speaker 1: He had all flowers and he had on a flower crown.

867
00:43:45,102 --> 00:43:45,942
Speaker 1: He looked incredible.

868
00:43:46,142 --> 00:43:47,942
Speaker 3: See that's you, Holly. You just need flowers in your

869
00:43:47,942 --> 00:43:50,822
Speaker 3: head and in your beard, right. And the thing about

870
00:43:50,982 --> 00:43:55,582
Speaker 3: this show was that it was like the most extreme

871
00:43:55,741 --> 00:43:58,502
Speaker 3: version of exposure therapy I've ever done, because what I

872
00:43:58,582 --> 00:44:02,182
Speaker 3: discovered while on set was that I have a pathological

873
00:44:02,902 --> 00:44:07,982
Speaker 3: fear of losing and a pathological fear of looking stupid.

874
00:44:08,022 --> 00:44:10,702
Speaker 1: But you're so competitive. What were the rules of the game?

875
00:44:11,142 --> 00:44:13,341
Speaker 3: So they were games that and you can see it.

876
00:44:13,422 --> 00:44:15,822
Speaker 3: Lucra and I have been watching some of the episodes.

877
00:44:15,862 --> 00:44:17,341
Speaker 3: You can see the look on my face where I'm

878
00:44:17,382 --> 00:44:20,022
Speaker 3: clearly there's an expression I do when I'm not following,

879
00:44:20,382 --> 00:44:22,422
Speaker 3: And you can tell with every game that it really

880
00:44:22,462 --> 00:44:24,582
Speaker 3: took me a few goes to understand what we were

881
00:44:24,622 --> 00:44:27,742
Speaker 3: doing here. And if anyone thinks that behind the scenes

882
00:44:27,741 --> 00:44:30,982
Speaker 3: they give you more information, they don't. It's like you

883
00:44:31,022 --> 00:44:33,582
Speaker 3: know when someone explains to you a card game and

884
00:44:33,661 --> 00:44:36,902
Speaker 3: you just nod, but none of it's going in. That

885
00:44:37,102 --> 00:44:38,701
Speaker 3: was me for most of that we you have to

886
00:44:38,701 --> 00:44:41,302
Speaker 3: sing or dance. I didn't have to sing or dance,

887
00:44:41,462 --> 00:44:45,382
Speaker 3: but I realize it under that pressure, your brain goes blank.

888
00:44:45,422 --> 00:44:49,382
Speaker 3: And I'm sitting there going you look like such an idiot.

889
00:44:49,822 --> 00:44:52,661
Speaker 3: I desperately wanted to win. And what's horrifying is how

890
00:44:52,661 --> 00:44:54,022
Speaker 3: clear that is on television.

891
00:44:54,582 --> 00:44:57,102
Speaker 2: I can't wait to watch this. How many to bring

892
00:44:57,221 --> 00:44:58,382
Speaker 2: me so much joy?

893
00:44:58,542 --> 00:45:00,221
Speaker 3: It was at six point thirty every night this week,

894
00:45:00,302 --> 00:45:02,502
Speaker 3: so you can catch up on all of them five

895
00:45:02,542 --> 00:45:05,262
Speaker 3: in a row. But look, it was so much fun

896
00:45:05,302 --> 00:45:07,781
Speaker 3: and I feel very lucky that I get the opportunity

897
00:45:07,781 --> 00:45:09,821
Speaker 3: to do new and fun things where I have a

898
00:45:09,822 --> 00:45:14,902
Speaker 3: steep learning curve. But I wanted to be like surprisingly

899
00:45:14,942 --> 00:45:17,102
Speaker 3: good at it, and spoiler, I was not.

900
00:45:17,261 --> 00:45:18,142
Speaker 1: Oh, I can't wait.

901
00:45:20,741 --> 00:45:23,222
Speaker 2: That's all we've got time for today and this week

902
00:45:23,302 --> 00:45:25,142
Speaker 2: out Louder is a massive thank you to all of

903
00:45:25,181 --> 00:45:26,901
Speaker 2: you for being here with us, and as we've been

904
00:45:26,942 --> 00:45:29,582
Speaker 2: recording from all different corners of the country and our

905
00:45:29,622 --> 00:45:32,821
Speaker 2: houses in different places. We'll be back in your ears

906
00:45:32,862 --> 00:45:35,022
Speaker 2: next week, but Jesse and Mia beat us out.

907
00:45:35,302 --> 00:45:38,142
Speaker 3: A big thank you to our team group executive producer

908
00:45:38,342 --> 00:45:42,422
Speaker 3: Ruth Divine, executive producer Emmeline Gazillis.

909
00:45:41,982 --> 00:45:45,022
Speaker 1: Our audio producer Leah Porges, our video producer Josh Green,

910
00:45:45,102 --> 00:45:48,461
Speaker 1: Our junior content producers Coco and Tessa. We will see

911
00:45:48,462 --> 00:45:51,182
Speaker 1: you in Sydney tomorrow Night out Louders.

912
00:45:51,302 --> 00:45:55,661
Speaker 3: Bye, Peekaboo, Peekaboo. We have a subscriber episode that I'm

913
00:45:55,701 --> 00:45:57,301
Speaker 3: here to tell you about. If you are not ready

914
00:45:57,342 --> 00:45:59,782
Speaker 3: to say goodbye, I like this. I like this little

915
00:45:59,781 --> 00:46:01,582
Speaker 3: trick that we do. At the end, we thought we'd

916
00:46:01,622 --> 00:46:03,622
Speaker 3: leave you with a little bit of a conversation we

917
00:46:03,822 --> 00:46:07,222
Speaker 3: had about an out louder who discovered her friend shares

918
00:46:07,261 --> 00:46:10,382
Speaker 3: their text messages with her husband and sometimes when she

919
00:46:10,462 --> 00:46:15,022
Speaker 3: gets replies, the husband has actually written them. Also, do

920
00:46:15,142 --> 00:46:18,942
Speaker 3: you put in for group gifts for your newly divorced friends?

921
00:46:19,382 --> 00:46:21,661
Speaker 3: Have group gifts gone too far? We have a lot

922
00:46:21,661 --> 00:46:23,981
Speaker 3: of thoughts that we share in this episode. A link

923
00:46:24,022 --> 00:46:25,182
Speaker 3: will be in the show notes.

924
00:46:26,181 --> 00:46:29,462
Speaker 1: Shout out to any Muma Miya subscribers listening. If you

925
00:46:29,622 --> 00:46:31,982
Speaker 1: love the show and want to support us as well,

926
00:46:32,181 --> 00:46:34,582
Speaker 1: subscribing to Mom and Maya is the very best way

927
00:46:34,582 --> 00:46:36,661
Speaker 1: to do so. There is a link in the episode

928
00:46:36,701 --> 00:46:37,142
Speaker 1: description