Speaker 1: You're listening to Amma Mia podcast. Mamma Mia acknowledges the
Speaker 1: traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast is
Speaker 1: recorded on. We pay our respects to elders past, present
Speaker 1: and emerging, and feel privileged to continue the sharing of
Speaker 1: birth stories and knowledge that has been a fundamental part
Speaker 1: of Indigenous culture. Hi. I'm Cassana Lukic and this is
Speaker 1: Diary of a Birth. We love sharing all kinds of
Speaker 1: birth stories here, but something I'm particularly passionate about is
Speaker 1: sharing the positive stories as well as the traumatic. Birth
Speaker 1: is hard. We all know that it's unexpected and sometimes scary,
Speaker 1: but there are beautiful moments too. After two unmedicated and
Speaker 1: complication free births, Today's mum felt confident going into her third.
Speaker 1: Only this time she birth's so quickly her husband missed it.
Speaker 2: He just said, he looked at his phone and it
Speaker 2: was multiple, like twenty miss calls, text messages from me,
Speaker 2: my mom, everyone, and he goes, yeah, it's happened, like
Speaker 2: he almost knew.
Speaker 1: But despite not having her husband there, she was delighted
Speaker 1: to share the moment with her mother, an experience that
Speaker 1: brought them even closer together. So let's meet today's mum.
Speaker 2: Hi. My name's Lee Cinda, and this is the diary
Speaker 2: of my birth with SARChI.
Speaker 1: So you've got three girls. You've got Poppy, Gigi, and Sachi.
Speaker 1: And what interested me most about your story is how
Speaker 1: you describe your berths as being relatively easy. So can
Speaker 1: you just briefly tell me about your first two berths.
Speaker 2: It's so funny because I say this to people and
Speaker 2: my husband goes, were we in the same room? That
Speaker 2: was not easy for you? He was screaming. I guess
Speaker 2: it's like, retrospectively, looking back, it was joyful in a way.
Speaker 2: I suppose I enjoyed it more than I thought. It
Speaker 2: was still really hard, but I really enjoy giving birth.
Speaker 2: And my mom's one of five, so maybe there's some
Speaker 2: genetics at play. I've got free now and I've enjoyed
Speaker 2: it so far. I could definitely keep going and having
Speaker 2: five if I was lucky enough. But yeah, I have
Speaker 2: enjoyed it.
Speaker 1: So you know, you mentioned that your mum felt like
Speaker 1: she was a good berth, so were you're like, Okay,
Speaker 1: this is genetic.
Speaker 2: I was hoping it would be genetic, but at the
Speaker 2: same time, I was like open to all options, Like
Speaker 2: I love the sound of an epidural, like, I'm all
Speaker 2: for advanced medicine, and you know that sounds amazing, Like
Speaker 2: I really am all for that. So I honestly thought
Speaker 2: I was going in to get an epidural for my
Speaker 2: first and I thought it would be an opportunity to
Speaker 2: be more present in the birth. I've heard all these stories,
Speaker 2: so I'm like, this is great. But one thing I
Speaker 2: wasn't aware of. I thought you sort of turned up
Speaker 2: to the hospital and you get presented with your options,
Speaker 2: like almost like a at a restaurant where the waiter
Speaker 2: comes around and shares the dessert you know, trolley or
Speaker 2: the champagne trolley. You can have this, this that, here's
Speaker 2: your paodole endme, or there is the epidural option. But
Speaker 2: there wasn't any of that. It was sort of up
Speaker 2: to you as the patient to say what you wanted.
Speaker 2: And I was really surprised by that. So I was waiting, thinking, man,
Speaker 2: when's the midwife going to come back? I really want
Speaker 2: this epi dural. It was starting to hurt. But by
Speaker 2: the time I finally said, you know, I'm just going
Speaker 2: to ask myself, she goes, no, it's way too late
Speaker 2: for that. We're ready to push. So I was like,
Speaker 2: what I need something, I need to pad it all.
Speaker 2: I was just like, no, it won't, it won't kick him.
Speaker 2: By the time you read, you've got a push and
Speaker 2: it all just sort of happens. Where did you give
Speaker 2: birth for Poppy in Woollongong private? So being in Barrel,
Speaker 2: which is regional an hour and a half from Sydney.
Speaker 2: There is a Barrel hospital here, but I just thought
Speaker 2: making that trip to Woollongong. Honestly, it's because I paid
Speaker 2: private health insurance for so bloody long. I just wanted
Speaker 2: to make get my baby at my bark and go
Speaker 2: to a private hospital.
Speaker 1: Especially when you're paying for maternal private that really upset please.
Speaker 2: I'm going to make the most of it. So we
Speaker 2: went there, which was still a forty minute drive compared
Speaker 2: to Sydney. So SARChI. I did wool and Gong with
Speaker 2: the first two and then my last with Sachi. I thought,
Speaker 2: you know what, I'll go to Sydney. That's where my GP,
Speaker 2: the OB I really liked, was there. I just thought,
Speaker 2: my last kid, maybe I'll do the trip to Sydney,
Speaker 2: knowing I'd stay with my parents though, because I don't
Speaker 2: think I could risk doing that hour and a half
Speaker 2: drive in labor.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Okay, So you've had two beautiful births with Poppy
Speaker 1: and Gig and then you fall pregnant with Sachi. What
Speaker 1: are your pregnancies themselves?
Speaker 2: Like trimest one, Like, I don't know anyone who's had
Speaker 2: a good trimester one really, like they're always pretty grim.
Speaker 2: You do feel like you just constantly well, I did,
Speaker 2: constantly exhausted, hungover, just off. So yeah, try mester ones
Speaker 2: always like that. And then two and three is pretty good.
Speaker 2: I think I just pushed through. Especially with the third.
Speaker 2: You just have to get on with it with the
Speaker 2: older kids, whereas I wish with Poffy and Gigi, I
Speaker 2: took a bit more time to rest. There's nothing to prove,
Speaker 2: you don't get you know, Brownie points, We don't, you know,
Speaker 2: just relax. You're allowed to relax. But I feel like sometimes,
Speaker 2: as women or all moms, you just it's not going
Speaker 2: to prove something. But I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm fine.
Speaker 1: It's that pressure to feel like you're doing a good job,
Speaker 1: and then it's the guilt of oh god, I haven't
Speaker 1: done a proper dinner tonight. So now I feel like
Speaker 1: a bad mum or I have missed this or did
Speaker 1: I forget Tuesday, or like, you know, all of those
Speaker 1: things that we think about as moms and the amount
Speaker 1: of pressure that we put on ourselves. So I completely
Speaker 1: I understand exactly what you're talking about. But you had
Speaker 1: really quick labors. You know, you had thirty nine weeks
Speaker 1: for the first two, So what was your plan and
Speaker 1: your partner's plan for baby number three?
Speaker 2: There was a part of me that thought, you know
Speaker 2: what I want the future. All this time, the first
Speaker 2: two have been completely natural, I'd like to experience a
Speaker 2: different birth because as much as I say it was
Speaker 2: positive and I enjoyed it, it was still at the
Speaker 2: time horrific. It's a very hard thing. So I thought,
Speaker 2: and I'm not necessarily present. I wasn't present. You know,
Speaker 2: you become quite animalistic and you you know, you're screaming.
Speaker 2: So I thought, you know, it might be quite nice
Speaker 2: just holding my husband's hand for this one. But then
Speaker 2: the other side of me thought, you know, i've I've
Speaker 2: done it before, I can do it again. And there
Speaker 2: is something really empowering about birthing in general. So I
Speaker 2: was like, I can do this, and I thought, I'm
Speaker 2: going to go in and try my best to do
Speaker 2: it natural again, but no, you know the options there
Speaker 2: and she was in the right position and everything was
Speaker 2: okay and set to have a natural birth, so I
Speaker 2: thought I'd give it a crack.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So when did you head up to Sydney then?
Speaker 2: So it was actually thirty eight weeks both poffee and cheese.
Speaker 2: You came bang on thirty eight weeks, and I thought,
Speaker 2: I went to Sydney at thirty eight weeks, but to
Speaker 2: stay with my parents, which was nice. I said to
Speaker 2: my husband, you stay in Barrel treated as a holiday.
Speaker 2: You can have two weeks by yourself without the other
Speaker 2: two kids. I can be in Sydney with my mum
Speaker 2: and dad to help with the kids. It's just a
Speaker 2: nice break before number three comes into the world. And
Speaker 2: just because the other two came at thirty eight weeks
Speaker 2: didn't necessarily mean this one would. So I said, look,
Speaker 2: there's no point you coming up just yet because with
Speaker 2: you know, work and whatnot. You just stay until I
Speaker 2: give you the call and you just jump straight in
Speaker 2: the car. And so it was thirty eight weeks. Admittedly
Speaker 2: I did do acupuncture, what else did I do the
Speaker 2: RAS relief tea. I was wanting it to move along,
Speaker 2: because I quite liked the idea of them all being
Speaker 2: born at thirty eight weeks. But also, you're over it,
Speaker 2: aren't You're so over it at that she just want
Speaker 2: them out.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the curb walking, the you're like, is this the
Speaker 1: only way we're going to get this baby out? Can
Speaker 1: somebody please just get this kid out?
Speaker 3: I get it.
Speaker 2: My mom's like, you should just enjoy these two weeks,
Speaker 2: don't rush it, just relax. You've got me here to
Speaker 2: help you. But I don't know, there's something about just
Speaker 2: wanting to get her out.
Speaker 1: I know you're uncomfortable, you full, Their heads have dropped.
Speaker 1: Your yea helvis feels full. You get a pee fifty
Speaker 1: times a night, It's like it's a lot. So I
Speaker 1: get that. But the craziest part of your whole story
Speaker 1: is your husband's in bowel and then you start to
Speaker 1: feel a little niggle.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So I thought it was getting to the end
Speaker 2: of the evening. It was like eight pm on the
Speaker 2: thirty eight week mark, and I thought, look, she's not
Speaker 2: coming today. There goes my thirty eight weeks for all
Speaker 2: of them. And I was watching Succession with my mum
Speaker 2: and I could just sort of start feeling some sort
Speaker 2: of twag and I'm like, oh, what's going on? And
Speaker 2: I was rolling around. My mom's like are you okay?
Speaker 2: I was like, I'm sure, I'm okay. It's just maybe
Speaker 2: some movement. And then we're watching another episode and it
Speaker 2: was about nine o'clock and I thought, you know what,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna go just have a shell, wash my hair
Speaker 2: and put a faked hat on. My mom's like, what
Speaker 2: is your problem? But anyways, I thought, look, I'm just
Speaker 2: gonna get prepared in case. And as the night went on,
Speaker 2: I could just feel maybe this is it. Yeah, this
Speaker 2: is it, and yeah, I just got sort of ready.
Speaker 2: And then at about midnight I called the hospital. You know,
Speaker 2: you've just got to let them know because hey, you're
Speaker 2: expecting me in two weeks, but just letting you know
Speaker 2: it could happen tonight. This is a bit of a
Speaker 2: random thing. But my mom she takes her blood pressure
Speaker 2: for her own sort of medication. She's like, let me
Speaker 2: just take your blood pressure just to see where it's at.
Speaker 2: And I told the hospital that and they're like, wow,
Speaker 2: that's really high. I can't remember what it was. They're like,
Speaker 2: you've actually you better come in now. And I came
Speaker 2: in and a couple of hours later she was warm.
Speaker 1: Once you had felt those niggles, did you call your husband?
Speaker 2: No? Because I didn't. It wasn't enough, Like it was
Speaker 2: very low. I was moving about, I was putting my
Speaker 2: town on. It felt. Yeah, it wasn't. I honestly didn't
Speaker 2: think it was going to come back. She wasn't gonna
Speaker 2: come that night. I thought, here tomorrow thing and I'd
Speaker 2: labor potentially through the night. It wasn't enough just yet.
Speaker 2: I thought maybe my like waters would break. But yeah,
Speaker 2: in hindsight, I probably should have.
Speaker 1: So when did Simon get a phone call?
Speaker 2: So around the midnight when I knew I was gonna
Speaker 2: have to go in, but he wasn't answering, so I
Speaker 2: was like, okay, Well he thought, you know, you can
Speaker 2: put your phone on sleep mode, I do not disturb.
Speaker 2: You can have exceptions, he thought. He changed it around.
Speaker 2: So this phone calls started coming through around midnight when
Speaker 2: I realized, okay, couok, this is it, and then yeah,
Speaker 2: basically every hour and then he woke up at six
Speaker 2: point thirty and just jumped in the car and came
Speaker 2: to Sydney. But yeah, it was just that's just how
Speaker 2: quickly it comes, like it can go from just little ooh,
Speaker 2: that's interesting. She might be getting ready to come to
Speaker 2: woom we're on. Yeah, And they were all like that,
Speaker 2: even with Gigi. I was lying in the hospital waiting
Speaker 2: and we were I was on my phone, we were
Speaker 2: ordering some Uber Eats it was sushi, and then by
Speaker 2: the time he put the order in, she came and
Speaker 2: then the Uber came like it just come. It was in.
Speaker 2: So that active labor was about twenty five minutes.
Speaker 1: So wow, Okay, so you're calling your husband. Are you
Speaker 1: panicked at this point? Are you're You're like, you know what,
Speaker 1: He's asleep. He's clearly not going to get this. I'm
Speaker 1: just going to go to the hospital with mum.
Speaker 2: If it was my first, i'd be panicked. I'd be
Speaker 2: really on edge. Because it was the third. There, I
Speaker 2: guess there was a part of me I was like,
Speaker 2: my mum's here, that's really special. Like I always knew
Speaker 2: she'd be there in the hospital with me if he
Speaker 2: wasn't there, So I wasn't panicked and I just knew
Speaker 2: what had happened. I was sort of laughing about it
Speaker 2: because it was just, you know, to miss the birth
Speaker 2: and he hates blood. He was forced to cut the
Speaker 2: umbilical cord by our ob with the first Like I
Speaker 2: was like, it's just funny how it's worked out for him,
Speaker 2: And yeah, I wasn't too panicked at all.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you seem like a very chilled person. I want
Speaker 1: to hear more about the going to the hospital. Your
Speaker 1: mom's driving you to the hospital. You're still feeling these contractions.
Speaker 1: Are they starting to intensify?
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it is, yeah, and I have the contraction
Speaker 2: app so I was sort of seeing if they were contractions,
Speaker 2: if there was any inconsistency rhythm to them. So like
Speaker 2: nine ish about midnight, I called the hospital and then
Speaker 2: we went in at about two. So in all this time,
Speaker 2: I guess you could call that laboring. My waters hadn't
Speaker 2: broken though, but I could feel things were happening. And
Speaker 2: then when I went in two o'clock, basically when I arrived,
Speaker 2: my waters broke, which was a really good just it
Speaker 2: worked out well with timing. And then we hung around.
Speaker 2: It was my mum and I and that's when it
Speaker 2: really I was still okay, like it's not sort of
Speaker 2: I'm not bent over and howling just yet, like I'm
Speaker 2: still okay and managing it. It wasn't until just that
Speaker 2: end in active waybor it really ramps up for me
Speaker 2: and I'm I'm on all fours, I'm running to the bathroom,
Speaker 2: you know, being sick. And that's sort of when it
Speaker 2: just picks up in that last little bit for me,
Speaker 2: where it's just it's lucky. It's pretty chill up until
Speaker 2: that last bit, it's just it's on.
Speaker 1: Did you sort of get a check when you got
Speaker 1: into the hospital after your order broke?
Speaker 2: Yeah, so she checked to make sure, yep, confirm my
Speaker 2: waters have broken. And then I had the option if
Speaker 2: I wanted to stay in the hospital or go home
Speaker 2: and labor more at home. But just based on my
Speaker 2: experience with the other two coming so quickly, they said
Speaker 2: just stay in the hospital. You've got your mum here.
Speaker 2: We're here as well. It was really early hours of
Speaker 2: the morning. They said, we'll give eu ob a call.
Speaker 2: It like five five thirty. He also missed the berth
Speaker 2: as well. It just sort of happened.
Speaker 1: Can we get a refund for that?
Speaker 2: I would say, what are we paying for? Yeah?
Speaker 1: What were you dilated at when you got into the hospital.
Speaker 1: Do you remember four or five?
Speaker 2: Okay, it was enough, but not enough for them to
Speaker 2: be alarmed or sort of be all lies on me.
Speaker 2: At this point. They just said, you know, shout out
Speaker 2: if you really need me. But it's even at that
Speaker 2: four or five. You know, it's different for everyone. It's
Speaker 2: just I'm not necessarily I'm contracting, and those contractions hurt,
Speaker 2: but in between, I'm still pretty okay. I think I
Speaker 2: was like on my phone in between, even at four
Speaker 2: or five, and then yeah, on all fours again for
Speaker 2: the contraction, and then back again on my phone. So
Speaker 2: I just it's not too bad until it hits that
Speaker 2: eight centimeters dilated for me, where it just yeah or
Speaker 2: hell breaks loose. Just the way that you describe it
Speaker 2: sounds like your body is made to birth, and that's incredible.
Speaker 1: Coming up.
Speaker 2: It feels almost euphoric, like you feel like warrior princess.
Speaker 2: It's just sort of done this huge thing.
Speaker 1: So you get to your eight centimeters and nine ten,
Speaker 1: you're in this transition phase. It's really hurting. Your mom's
Speaker 1: there with you, the husband's asleep having a lovely rest.
Speaker 2: The o be's asleep.
Speaker 1: Fummer, the OB's asleep, and the midwife says, okay, we're
Speaker 1: ready to push.
Speaker 2: I actually am. I don't know if you got this,
Speaker 2: but I vomited with all three of mine as well.
Speaker 2: That's a sign for me that I'm going to go
Speaker 2: into labor. So I was there, I was contracting and
Speaker 2: I was sort of on all fours and I was
Speaker 2: asking for the gas and they gave me it, but
Speaker 2: it was like A turned so low, like Mom, can
Speaker 2: you crank that up? I need more. But there was
Speaker 2: a big contraction where I said I just need to
Speaker 2: go to the bathroom. I'm going to be sick. And
Speaker 2: I went to the bathroom and then I just sort
Speaker 2: of collapsed and I was like, yeah, I need a push.
Speaker 2: This is it. So I was over in the bathroom
Speaker 2: at this point and they're like, do you want to
Speaker 2: give birth down there? I was like, I was trying
Speaker 2: to get a mat out for me to give birth
Speaker 2: by the toilet. I was like, no, I can make
Speaker 2: it back up onto the bed. So I crawled back
Speaker 2: onto the bed and laid down. All my burths have
Speaker 2: been just in that position where I am on my
Speaker 2: back up. My mum was holding my hand and they
Speaker 2: just said, this is it. You need to push, and
Speaker 2: they raced in and it was there. And I don't know,
Speaker 2: if it's just your body, you do actually get used
Speaker 2: to it. But I do find the first Poppy was
Speaker 2: the hardest by far in terms of that ring of
Speaker 2: fire and that feeling of pushing. But with Gigi and
Speaker 2: then Sartchi and they've bull been the same size, it
Speaker 2: does get easier. So I guess if it's your body
Speaker 2: used to just stretching out to that size. But yeah,
Speaker 2: she came out. My mum cut the and bilical cord.
Speaker 1: How many how many pushes?
Speaker 2: Three?
Speaker 1: Three pushes and she was out. Yeah, she comes out,
Speaker 1: she's aunt straight onto your chest. Yeah, you've got your
Speaker 1: mom with you, and your mom must have been so thrilled.
Speaker 2: To be with you and me too. It was really special.
Speaker 2: She was bowling her eyes out and yeah, it was
Speaker 2: really sweet. I did, actually, I should say, with the
Speaker 2: pushes with Poppy, and it was all just by first,
Speaker 2: and it was so crazy, and I just wanted to
Speaker 2: push and I was really like grunting pushing, and I
Speaker 2: actually tore I think with it one or two degree tear.
Speaker 2: And then I learned that by Gigi and then SARChI.
Speaker 2: It's just those little pilate pushes and pumps that you
Speaker 2: should do instead of those big grunts like I just
Speaker 2: thought the bigger, the better to get this child out
Speaker 2: of me. So I was really pushing. But by SARChI,
Speaker 2: I'd learn it was just like to get them out
Speaker 2: without tearing, and that happened.
Speaker 1: Yeah, do you know, I think that's such a big thing.
Speaker 1: Is like the I've spoken about this before, the learning
Speaker 1: how to push, and something challenging with an epidural is
Speaker 1: depending on how strong it is, sometimes you cannot feel
Speaker 1: how you're pushing. So it is really important to learn
Speaker 1: that because your body knows when to kind of ease
Speaker 1: the baby out, I guess. But yeah, it's amazing that
Speaker 1: through subsequent pregnancies you kind of learned, all right, this
Speaker 1: is going to be a better way to push.
Speaker 2: It's almost opposite to what the midwife is saying, like
Speaker 2: big push, now, big push, and that sort of to
Speaker 2: me means just all your force into it. But yeah,
Speaker 2: it's just yeah, that learning to do the push, but
Speaker 2: more from internally pushing. So yeah, that was yeah, three
Speaker 2: or four pushes and then she was out.
Speaker 1: She was out she was on your chest, and you
Speaker 1: and your mum went some time together and your mom
Speaker 1: cut the cord.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, and then we facetimed in my husband zooming
Speaker 2: up the highway to Sydney.
Speaker 1: Okay, wait wait, I got to I gotta get this
Speaker 1: be right. So he finally wakes up. He wakes up
Speaker 1: at six. When was SARChI born?
Speaker 2: Five fifteen?
Speaker 1: Okay? So he wakes up to what.
Speaker 2: He just said. He looked at his phone and it
Speaker 2: was multiple, like twenty miss calls, text messages from me,
Speaker 2: my mom, everyone, and he goes, yeah, it's happened, like
Speaker 2: he almost knew, and then just called me straight away.
Speaker 2: And then I put it on FaceTime and introduced her
Speaker 2: and he chose her name SARChI, so he was like, hi, SARChI,
Speaker 2: like knew straight away. It wasn't who's this or what's
Speaker 2: the sex and he just jumped straight from the car
Speaker 2: and came to Sydney.
Speaker 1: I'm just imagining him waking up and looking at his
Speaker 1: phone and going, oh, okay, so I've just missed. Yeah,
Speaker 1: how does he feel about missing Sachi's birth? Is almost like, well,
Speaker 1: I've had two, so I know what it's like.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and here's the time where if he sees the
Speaker 2: slightest bit of blood he fades like he really can't
Speaker 2: stand blood. And the first he didn't want to go
Speaker 2: anywhere near that end with my first pregnance or second.
Speaker 2: But the ob was like, you need to come on,
Speaker 2: cut the cord. Cut the cord. Oh no, sorry, he
Speaker 2: needed to pull the head out. He pulled poffy out.
Speaker 2: He goes, no, no, no, I can't do that this,
Speaker 2: come on, put your gloves on. In his fiddling about
Speaker 2: and I was like, just hurry up, someone get this
Speaker 2: kid out of me. So he was almost traumatized by that.
Speaker 2: So he looked. I think maybe there's a part of
Speaker 2: him that regrets not being there, but I think he
Speaker 2: was pretty happy in bed and happy to meet above
Speaker 2: when all the mess was cleaned up. Yeah.
Speaker 1: You know, it's like the nineteen fifties are all waiting
Speaker 1: in the room smoking their cigars, drinking. There is my
Speaker 1: baby here. Yeah. Like it was a.
Speaker 2: Bit where I was like, you know, it's actually kind
Speaker 2: of you had wanted my mom to be there to
Speaker 2: cut the cord, So even if he was there, I'd
Speaker 2: be like, mom, you do it.
Speaker 1: Was your mom there for all three of your berths.
Speaker 2: No, no, no, it was always just Simon.
Speaker 1: That's a beautiful special moment for you and your mom
Speaker 1: to share.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it was really special.
Speaker 1: And tell me about Simon meeting Sachi for the first
Speaker 1: time when he finally gets to Sydney.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he sort of just waltzed on in with some
Speaker 2: coffees for.
Speaker 3: All of us.
Speaker 2: And sat down and yeah, Gabric cuddle did their Chester
Speaker 2: chest skin on skin. He hates all the blood and stuff,
Speaker 2: so he cleaned her up straight away, you know, all
Speaker 2: the white stuff you meant to keep on her a
Speaker 2: bit because let's get rid of this. But no, he
Speaker 2: was You could just you know, when they're just almost
Speaker 2: shock like his pupils were so big, like it was
Speaker 2: all sort of you can tell her he was running
Speaker 2: on adrenaline just as much as I was. And yeah,
Speaker 2: it was nice. So he had some good bonding time
Speaker 2: and just made sure it was, yeah, an extra long
Speaker 2: bonding session of the Chester Chest. So he had some
Speaker 2: time alone. I think we left him in the room
Speaker 2: for a bit so he could have that moment with Sashi.
Speaker 1: You did mention a little bit about the oxytocin high,
Speaker 1: the high that you feel after giving birth. And I've
Speaker 1: heard this from a few other women who've given birth
Speaker 1: vaginally without medication. Can you tell me about that high
Speaker 1: that you feel.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it feels almost euphoric. Especially it's just this overwhelming,
Speaker 2: like you feel like a warrior princess. It's just sort
Speaker 2: of done, this huge thing and the rush, and I
Speaker 2: guess and it lasts almost like forty eight hours, just
Speaker 2: this high of like I guess, maybe pride and happiness
Speaker 2: that you've got this beautiful child, but it's more about
Speaker 2: your You just feel so proud is a good word
Speaker 2: for it. Maybe it's just yeah, it's incredible. But then
Speaker 2: I guess with any up comes the down and they
Speaker 2: talk about the is it the three day baby blues? Oh?
Speaker 1: God? Those that's the one thing I worn first time.
Speaker 1: Mom's about I said, day five, you were going to
Speaker 1: feel a dip, Yes, you were going to be really sad.
Speaker 2: Yes. And I felt those big time as well. So
Speaker 2: I might have felt the high initially a lot of
Speaker 2: the intensity, but then I also felt the lows. I
Speaker 2: just remember being in like a breastfeeding class and I
Speaker 2: was just doing anything to try and distract myself from crying.
Speaker 2: And I know what am I doing, and I was
Speaker 2: just trying to like online shop or just something to
Speaker 2: distract myself, and anything was making me cry. And that
Speaker 2: is I warned mums about the baby blues and also
Speaker 2: the engagement of the boobs, like I don't think anyone
Speaker 2: warns you about how he engage your boos, cat, And yeah,
Speaker 2: you're so uncomfortable. You've got the blues and you feel
Speaker 2: low and sad and you're like, what have I done
Speaker 2: with my life? Yeah, but it all settles down and yeah,
Speaker 2: it all sort of eats itself out, but yeah, ephoric high.
Speaker 2: It's incredible, and I think it's just it. It's the
Speaker 2: hardest thing I've ever ever done, and I think a
Speaker 2: lot of women it's the hardest thing they ever go through.
Speaker 2: So maybe that's where that pride comes from, Like you
Speaker 2: can actually do something like that.
Speaker 1: I mean, I obviously have had very different experiences to you,
Speaker 1: but I definitely do deal feel and I think every
Speaker 1: woman should, no matter the way that they give birth.
Speaker 1: Is that immense feeling of pride and amazement at what
Speaker 1: our bodies can do. The first thing I said when
Speaker 1: my first baby came out was I've been waiting for
Speaker 1: you for so long, and it's that like.
Speaker 2: Love, you know, and the amount of times I was saying,
Speaker 2: I can't do this, I can't do this. I can't
Speaker 2: do this. You can. You can, the midwives, you can.
Speaker 2: You almost say I can't do this. So I think
Speaker 2: it's the finally, like you, you do do it, and
Speaker 2: we do do it, And here's the baby that you
Speaker 2: have been waiting for in all your life, you know,
Speaker 2: even that nine months, you've been growing this thing and
Speaker 2: feeling the kicks, and I can't just seeing their face
Speaker 2: and you've been visualizing, visualizing and imagining for the past
Speaker 2: nine months or you know, your life what they would
Speaker 2: look like, and then you see their little swished up face,
Speaker 2: even though that's nothing what they'll eventually look like. But yeah,
Speaker 2: it's pretty spectacular. Yeah, it's like I do anything for
Speaker 2: that feeling. Although this after Gigi, the first thing I
Speaker 2: said is I'm never doing this again.
Speaker 1: Okay, So now that such he's nine months, has that
Speaker 1: feeling of I'm never doing this again gone away.
Speaker 2: I would love another one. I'm so ready to go now,
Speaker 2: like I would love And you know, you sort of
Speaker 2: get that feeling where you're looking at baby names, you
Speaker 2: thinking little things I'm there, ready to go. My husband
Speaker 2: was set on two and we compromised at three. So
Speaker 2: I'm sort of aut that challenging spot where I would
Speaker 2: really love another one, but he was so set on two.
Speaker 2: I just don't want to have, like we've got such
Speaker 2: a beautiful, healthy relationship and with our three healthy kids,
Speaker 2: adding another child into the mix where he was so
Speaker 2: adamant not too. I don't want that to disrupt our
Speaker 2: unit and union at the moment. So we just we've
Speaker 2: got to figure that out.
Speaker 1: You know what you've got, You've got some time and
Speaker 1: you can always like go back and thinking about it
Speaker 1: and talk about it and stuff like that. But thank
Speaker 1: you for sharing such a positive and beautiful story with us.
Speaker 1: Absolute pleasure to talk to you, and thank you for
Speaker 1: sharing your story.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much.
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask our resident obstrician and gynecologist, doctor
Speaker 1: Browmin Devine, if there is a genetic component to being
Speaker 1: a good Bertha.
Speaker 3: In terms of being a good bertha, you know, people
Speaker 3: you say, oh, she's got childbearing hips. That used to
Speaker 3: be something that people said when I was growing up,
Speaker 3: she's got good child bearing hips, And it was often
Speaker 3: the way someone was possibly quite covacous on the outside,
Speaker 3: so they you know, had a curvacious pair of hips
Speaker 3: or something like that, which doesn't really have any impact
Speaker 3: on whether someone's going to be able to have an
Speaker 3: easy birth or not. Definitely, when you talk about genetics,
Speaker 3: there are a lot of factors that come into play
Speaker 3: whether someone's going to have a straightforward labor or a
Speaker 3: complicated labor. But there is a reasonable input from someone's
Speaker 3: bone structure and the size and the shape of the
Speaker 3: inlet of their pelvis and the outlet of their pelvis.
Speaker 3: And we've always sort of said in obstetrics that women
Speaker 3: who are smaller or shorter don't have so much height
Speaker 3: and have little feet, so foot size four or four
Speaker 3: and a half five. We often look at people's feet
Speaker 3: and think, all, goodness, I wonder how you're going to
Speaker 3: go in labor because people with little small feet often
Speaker 3: have smaller pelvies as well, and certainly that can be
Speaker 3: something that runs in families. Again, when I started my training,
Speaker 3: we used to do this silly business where we'd get
Speaker 3: cat scans of people's pelvis and measure the inside diameters
Speaker 3: of their pelvis and then try and make assumptions about
Speaker 3: whether that would mean they're going to be able to
Speaker 3: have a vaginal birth or not, and all that just
Speaker 3: showed us that it wasn't a very particularly accurate way
Speaker 3: of determining people's birth outcomes at all. So it's all
Speaker 3: gone by the way. But it's absolutely true that some
Speaker 3: people have quick and relatively straightforward labors and others have
Speaker 3: really long, slow, difficult, frankly mean and nasty labors, And
Speaker 3: it's got very little to do at the end of
Speaker 3: the day on how motivated you are or how much
Speaker 3: you want to birds vaginally. There's a whole bunch of factors,
Speaker 3: the size and shape of your pelvis being one, but
Speaker 3: also the size and shape of your bubb's head and
Speaker 3: how the head's positioned in relation to your pelvis, and
Speaker 3: whether the placenta's going to cope with the whole of
Speaker 3: labor and get the bub through without having a bit
Speaker 3: of a hissy fit halfway through the labor and decide
Speaker 3: it doesn't want to work anymore. So there's lots and
Speaker 3: lots of reasons why a birth would go in one
Speaker 3: direction or another. But certainly if a person comes in
Speaker 3: and said, look, you know, I've got a family history,
Speaker 3: all the women in my family birth really easily. There
Speaker 3: is something about that you think good.
Speaker 1: And can doctor Devine explain what the highest that some
Speaker 1: women experience after birth.
Speaker 3: It's very complex, obviously it's not just one thing. But
Speaker 3: I think most people are aware that oxytocin, which is
Speaker 3: the hormone that is released in labor to allow your
Speaker 3: uterus to contract, is also known as the cuddle hormone,
Speaker 3: so it's also released in the post orgasmic state to
Speaker 3: make people sort of feel very smoochy and happy and
Speaker 3: close and cuddly. So that's an interesting sort of correlation there. Also,
Speaker 3: I mean, there must be a range of neurotransmitters that
Speaker 3: are buzzing around in your brain after going through something
Speaker 3: like a labor which is really, you know, a phenomenally
Speaker 3: intense and really hard work time for your body and
Speaker 3: your psyche and your hormonal system and everything. So that
Speaker 3: must release a number of neurotransmitters that can bring that
Speaker 3: sort of dopamine and things that bring that real sort
Speaker 3: of high.
Speaker 1: Diary of a Birth was hosted by me Cassemie Lukich
Speaker 1: with expert input from Dr Bromwin Define. We also want
Speaker 1: to hear from you if you like this episode, please
Speaker 1: share and subscribe. A five star rating goes a long
Speaker 1: way in ensuring we continue to share all of your stories.
Speaker 1: This episode was produced by Ella Maitland and myself Cassemie Lukic,
Speaker 1: with audio production by Tina Mattalov,