1 00:00:10,888 --> 00:00:15,408 Speaker 1: You're listening to a Muma mea podcast. Muma Me acknowledges 2 00:00:15,448 --> 00:00:18,608 Speaker 1: the traditional owners of the land and waters. This podcast 3 00:00:18,688 --> 00:00:28,568 Speaker 1: is recorded on There's nothing quite like the instant connection 4 00:00:28,688 --> 00:00:31,008 Speaker 1: you feel when you meet someone and just know they 5 00:00:31,048 --> 00:00:33,968 Speaker 1: could be your person. It's a bond that runs deep, 6 00:00:34,128 --> 00:00:38,968 Speaker 1: felt emotionally, intellectually and physically so powerful that together you 7 00:00:39,007 --> 00:00:41,688 Speaker 1: feel capable of conquering anything and everything. 8 00:00:42,168 --> 00:00:45,648 Speaker 2: I was so into it, and I was really taken 9 00:00:45,688 --> 00:00:48,647 Speaker 2: with his views of the world and his approach on things. 10 00:00:49,328 --> 00:00:52,968 Speaker 2: And there's a saying that says small minds speak about 11 00:00:52,968 --> 00:00:56,688 Speaker 2: other people, medium sized minds speak about events, and open 12 00:00:56,848 --> 00:01:00,208 Speaker 2: large minds speak about ideas. And I really felt it 13 00:01:00,248 --> 00:01:02,608 Speaker 2: was like that we would were solving the problems of 14 00:01:02,648 --> 00:01:03,088 Speaker 2: the world. 15 00:01:03,568 --> 00:01:04,768 Speaker 1: And it was a really. 16 00:01:05,408 --> 00:01:08,288 Speaker 2: Nourishing experience to be in where I felt like this 17 00:01:08,408 --> 00:01:10,848 Speaker 2: is good for the soul and the and the body. 18 00:01:11,568 --> 00:01:14,448 Speaker 2: I felt we were completely infatuated with each other. 19 00:01:15,128 --> 00:01:18,968 Speaker 1: Everything was perfect. But with a connection this strong, it's 20 00:01:19,008 --> 00:01:21,807 Speaker 1: easy to overlook a few signs to give your person 21 00:01:21,808 --> 00:01:24,608 Speaker 1: the benefit of the doubt, but that doesn't mean everyone 22 00:01:24,648 --> 00:01:26,568 Speaker 1: in your corner will see it the same way. 23 00:01:26,968 --> 00:01:32,368 Speaker 2: My little sister, she put her energy into investigating Jake. 24 00:01:32,688 --> 00:01:36,128 Speaker 2: Whatever it took, she was on the case. And of 25 00:01:36,168 --> 00:01:38,768 Speaker 2: course she's relaying all this information to my other sister 26 00:01:38,848 --> 00:01:41,088 Speaker 2: and my mum, and so it was like this three 27 00:01:41,168 --> 00:01:45,128 Speaker 2: way onslaught from my family of what are you doing? 28 00:01:45,168 --> 00:01:47,048 Speaker 2: And get out of there? And what's wrong with you? 29 00:01:47,128 --> 00:01:50,128 Speaker 2: And how can you be so stupid? Like it was text, 30 00:01:50,288 --> 00:01:53,848 Speaker 2: it was calls, it was relentless. 31 00:02:03,688 --> 00:02:06,168 Speaker 1: I'm Georgia love and this is everyone has an ex 32 00:02:06,368 --> 00:02:08,568 Speaker 1: Come with me as we dive into a collection of 33 00:02:08,728 --> 00:02:13,048 Speaker 1: unconventional stories about relationships passed through the eyes and the 34 00:02:13,088 --> 00:02:16,327 Speaker 1: hearts of the very people who lived them. We've all 35 00:02:16,368 --> 00:02:19,808 Speaker 1: heard the saying love finds you when you least expect it. Well, 36 00:02:19,848 --> 00:02:22,968 Speaker 1: for twenty seven year old Scarlet, a TV presenter living 37 00:02:22,968 --> 00:02:25,808 Speaker 1: in Brisbane, that couldn't have been more true, because on 38 00:02:25,808 --> 00:02:29,888 Speaker 1: one completely unassuming evening, an unlikely wing woman stepped in 39 00:02:30,008 --> 00:02:31,448 Speaker 1: and set everything in motion. 40 00:02:32,168 --> 00:02:34,968 Speaker 2: It was one of those nights where I had got 41 00:02:35,008 --> 00:02:38,048 Speaker 2: my pajamas on ordered takeaway. It was in front of 42 00:02:38,048 --> 00:02:40,448 Speaker 2: the TV. It was like I'm not leaving the house again. 43 00:02:41,048 --> 00:02:43,608 Speaker 2: And then it was actually a message from my mum 44 00:02:43,688 --> 00:02:47,128 Speaker 2: who was in town. She was a flight attendant and 45 00:02:47,608 --> 00:02:49,407 Speaker 2: said come and meet me, and so I saw, okay, mom, 46 00:02:49,407 --> 00:02:52,208 Speaker 2: I will, and so that set me on being out 47 00:02:52,288 --> 00:02:56,488 Speaker 2: that night, and later on into the night, I met 48 00:02:56,488 --> 00:03:00,567 Speaker 2: a friend at a pub after a rugby match who 49 00:03:00,888 --> 00:03:03,968 Speaker 2: introduced me to Jake. As soon as we met, it 50 00:03:04,048 --> 00:03:08,528 Speaker 2: was this crazy connection, emotional, intellectual. We were talking, we 51 00:03:08,528 --> 00:03:10,648 Speaker 2: were kissing, and o member At the end of that night, 52 00:03:11,288 --> 00:03:15,048 Speaker 2: I'd only met him five hours before, but prying myself 53 00:03:15,088 --> 00:03:17,888 Speaker 2: away from him to go to my apartment seemed impossible, 54 00:03:18,048 --> 00:03:20,528 Speaker 2: like I was just so in it. 55 00:03:20,928 --> 00:03:23,008 Speaker 1: And from there it was full steam ahead. 56 00:03:23,488 --> 00:03:28,768 Speaker 2: We became pretty much inseparable, and we spent a lot 57 00:03:28,808 --> 00:03:31,568 Speaker 2: of time together. Not every single day, but before long 58 00:03:31,928 --> 00:03:34,448 Speaker 2: we were seeing each other every single night. He was 59 00:03:34,568 --> 00:03:39,248 Speaker 2: staying at my place, and we were pretty soon talking 60 00:03:39,288 --> 00:03:43,648 Speaker 2: about marriage and kids and all of those things that 61 00:03:44,288 --> 00:03:47,128 Speaker 2: set up a future. A couple of weeks later, it 62 00:03:47,208 --> 00:03:51,848 Speaker 2: became more official. But it was one of those experiences 63 00:03:51,888 --> 00:03:53,808 Speaker 2: in the past you're sort of seeing someone you go, oh, 64 00:03:53,848 --> 00:03:54,608 Speaker 2: is it a situation? 65 00:03:54,688 --> 00:03:54,888 Speaker 1: Ship? 66 00:03:54,928 --> 00:03:57,168 Speaker 2: Are they seeing other people? Are we actually a thing? 67 00:03:57,768 --> 00:04:00,808 Speaker 2: But the connection was so strong from the start it 68 00:04:00,928 --> 00:04:03,848 Speaker 2: was like it would have even been offensive to suggest 69 00:04:03,888 --> 00:04:06,968 Speaker 2: to the other person that we were doing anything outside 70 00:04:07,008 --> 00:04:12,688 Speaker 2: of each other. He was very dark, very handsome, very charismatic, 71 00:04:13,128 --> 00:04:17,407 Speaker 2: physically my type, and he just seemed to have such 72 00:04:17,408 --> 00:04:20,767 Speaker 2: an interesting view on the world. And I feel like 73 00:04:20,928 --> 00:04:23,808 Speaker 2: I was learning so much with him, and we were 74 00:04:23,848 --> 00:04:28,208 Speaker 2: in this absolute love bubble like nothing else seemed to 75 00:04:28,207 --> 00:04:28,888 Speaker 2: be a problem. 76 00:04:29,008 --> 00:04:29,967 Speaker 1: We were just together. 77 00:04:30,568 --> 00:04:32,767 Speaker 2: And he told me he was a doctor, but that 78 00:04:32,888 --> 00:04:36,767 Speaker 2: was the least interesting thing about him. We would spend 79 00:04:36,888 --> 00:04:43,008 Speaker 2: so long just walking by the river, getting food, drinking wine. 80 00:04:43,688 --> 00:04:45,647 Speaker 2: I came home one day and the whole living room 81 00:04:45,648 --> 00:04:48,408 Speaker 2: had been completely transformed. He'd put tea like candles all 82 00:04:48,408 --> 00:04:51,288 Speaker 2: the way along the window sill and along the wall 83 00:04:51,327 --> 00:04:54,448 Speaker 2: and the cabinet, and it was all pillows and plush 84 00:04:54,488 --> 00:04:57,648 Speaker 2: blankets and a bottle of champagne and a big cheese platter. 85 00:04:58,288 --> 00:05:01,327 Speaker 2: And this was just how it was any given day. 86 00:05:01,768 --> 00:05:04,287 Speaker 2: One time he picked me up from work in a 87 00:05:04,327 --> 00:05:07,728 Speaker 2: convertible luxury car that he'd hired just to give me 88 00:05:07,768 --> 00:05:13,048 Speaker 2: a bit of a nice afternoon fancy restaurants. And it 89 00:05:13,168 --> 00:05:16,008 Speaker 2: wasn't like it was all these luxury things. They were 90 00:05:16,048 --> 00:05:18,967 Speaker 2: definitely there, but I had just as good a time, 91 00:05:19,408 --> 00:05:23,288 Speaker 2: like staying in bed all day or sitting around watching TV, 92 00:05:24,448 --> 00:05:26,968 Speaker 2: so it was whatever we were doing, the connection was 93 00:05:27,408 --> 00:05:33,327 Speaker 2: so good. There was definitely chemistry, physical attraction, and intellectual 94 00:05:33,448 --> 00:05:37,808 Speaker 2: was really strong, like he'd talk about big ideas and things. 95 00:05:37,648 --> 00:05:39,328 Speaker 1: That were going on in the world. 96 00:05:39,967 --> 00:05:42,848 Speaker 2: And as a journalist who kind of felt like I 97 00:05:42,888 --> 00:05:45,408 Speaker 2: knew a lot about a lot of things, you know, 98 00:05:46,048 --> 00:05:47,488 Speaker 2: and a lot of people, a lot of people I 99 00:05:47,488 --> 00:05:51,008 Speaker 2: spoke to, I'm like, oh, gosh, ah, the poor uninformed, 100 00:05:51,207 --> 00:05:52,167 Speaker 2: you know that kind of thing. 101 00:05:52,248 --> 00:05:53,288 Speaker 1: It was not like that at all. 102 00:05:53,368 --> 00:05:56,288 Speaker 2: I was so into it, and I was really taken 103 00:05:56,327 --> 00:05:59,288 Speaker 2: with his views of the world and his approach on things. 104 00:05:59,967 --> 00:06:03,568 Speaker 2: And there's a saying that says small minds speak about 105 00:06:03,607 --> 00:06:07,327 Speaker 2: other people, medium sized minds speak about events, and open 106 00:06:07,488 --> 00:06:10,847 Speaker 2: large minds speak about ideas. And I really felt it 107 00:06:10,888 --> 00:06:13,248 Speaker 2: was like that we would were solving the problems of 108 00:06:13,248 --> 00:06:13,768 Speaker 2: the world. 109 00:06:14,207 --> 00:06:15,407 Speaker 1: And it was a really. 110 00:06:15,928 --> 00:06:19,248 Speaker 2: Nourishing experience to be in where I felt like, this 111 00:06:19,368 --> 00:06:21,808 Speaker 2: is good for the soul and the mind and the body. 112 00:06:22,368 --> 00:06:24,687 Speaker 2: The I Love You came a few months later, but 113 00:06:24,727 --> 00:06:26,968 Speaker 2: I feel like we both wanted to say it immediately, 114 00:06:27,048 --> 00:06:29,088 Speaker 2: but it was one of those you know, social rules 115 00:06:29,087 --> 00:06:31,728 Speaker 2: that you just wait a little while to say it. 116 00:06:32,327 --> 00:06:35,527 Speaker 2: But I felt we were completely infatuated with each other. 117 00:06:36,248 --> 00:06:39,328 Speaker 2: Everything was perfect. I would go to work in the day, 118 00:06:39,648 --> 00:06:41,488 Speaker 2: he would go to work. Often he would drop me 119 00:06:41,528 --> 00:06:43,728 Speaker 2: at work, so I wouldn't even have to drive myself. 120 00:06:43,768 --> 00:06:45,528 Speaker 2: He'd dropped me at work, and then he'd go to work, 121 00:06:45,568 --> 00:06:47,008 Speaker 2: and then he picked me up and we'd be back 122 00:06:47,048 --> 00:06:50,527 Speaker 2: in the love bubble and everything was just as good 123 00:06:50,568 --> 00:06:51,128 Speaker 2: as it can be. 124 00:06:51,207 --> 00:06:55,088 Speaker 1: I was totally on cloud nine. Things were moving pretty fast, 125 00:06:55,327 --> 00:06:57,207 Speaker 1: and at the time Jake was in the process of 126 00:06:57,207 --> 00:07:00,087 Speaker 1: moving out of his place, so it was only natural, 127 00:07:00,207 --> 00:07:02,768 Speaker 1: especially with a connection like theirs, that he spent more 128 00:07:02,847 --> 00:07:05,848 Speaker 1: time at Scarlet's, and that, dear listener, is when you 129 00:07:05,888 --> 00:07:08,287 Speaker 1: can observe your person a little more closely. 130 00:07:08,768 --> 00:07:11,367 Speaker 2: I think I might have said thing, oh, well, no problem, 131 00:07:11,408 --> 00:07:14,208 Speaker 2: you can just stay here. So there was never an 132 00:07:14,208 --> 00:07:16,248 Speaker 2: official you can move in with me, and he never 133 00:07:16,328 --> 00:07:20,568 Speaker 2: did move in with me, but it was like an 134 00:07:20,688 --> 00:07:24,408 Speaker 2: unspoken scenario that just started playing out. I got to 135 00:07:24,408 --> 00:07:27,088 Speaker 2: a stage where it was every night, and when that 136 00:07:27,288 --> 00:07:31,568 Speaker 2: was happening, I suppose I may have questioned why he 137 00:07:31,607 --> 00:07:34,927 Speaker 2: didn't have night shift, but he said that he was 138 00:07:34,968 --> 00:07:38,408 Speaker 2: only on day shift. It was something about the hours 139 00:07:38,408 --> 00:07:41,167 Speaker 2: there seemed to be like the explanation made sense, and 140 00:07:41,208 --> 00:07:43,807 Speaker 2: I didn't really think anything of it. He had this 141 00:07:44,528 --> 00:07:48,687 Speaker 2: doctor's kit, which was this old looking briefcase with a 142 00:07:48,727 --> 00:07:51,248 Speaker 2: stethoscope in it. It really looked like some kind of 143 00:07:51,328 --> 00:07:56,248 Speaker 2: vintage relic, you know. I didn't think it looked quite right. 144 00:07:56,328 --> 00:07:59,328 Speaker 2: But then also, I am not a doctor. I don't 145 00:07:59,368 --> 00:08:01,928 Speaker 2: know what it's supposed to look like. And he would 146 00:08:02,008 --> 00:08:06,687 Speaker 2: dress super casually, like in like almost gym gear to 147 00:08:06,768 --> 00:08:08,648 Speaker 2: go to work, which I thought, oh, that seems a 148 00:08:08,688 --> 00:08:11,727 Speaker 2: bit odd. He told me that he got changed at work, 149 00:08:11,888 --> 00:08:13,768 Speaker 2: so he had his uniform work and got changed, and 150 00:08:13,768 --> 00:08:17,528 Speaker 2: I thought, okay, well that makes sense. And it was 151 00:08:17,568 --> 00:08:19,768 Speaker 2: a few months in and I'd never met any of 152 00:08:19,768 --> 00:08:24,768 Speaker 2: his colleagues. Again, they're doctors, they're busy, they're probably working 153 00:08:24,808 --> 00:08:25,528 Speaker 2: and sleeping. 154 00:08:26,688 --> 00:08:29,928 Speaker 1: And then there came an issue with money. 155 00:08:30,727 --> 00:08:35,688 Speaker 2: So we'd have these extravagant experiences together, helicopter tours of 156 00:08:35,768 --> 00:08:41,248 Speaker 2: wineries and fancy weekends away and dinners at the best restaurant, 157 00:08:41,248 --> 00:08:43,648 Speaker 2: and it was all looked after by him. And then 158 00:08:43,688 --> 00:08:45,608 Speaker 2: the next morning he'd say he didn't have any money 159 00:08:45,608 --> 00:08:49,248 Speaker 2: to get coffee, and I was like, well, the least 160 00:08:49,288 --> 00:08:52,848 Speaker 2: I can do is shout you at coffee. That's absolutely fine. 161 00:08:53,448 --> 00:08:56,727 Speaker 2: So it wasn't the actual money itself. It was more 162 00:08:56,768 --> 00:09:00,528 Speaker 2: just unusual behavior. How you could have so much and 163 00:09:00,608 --> 00:09:03,648 Speaker 2: then straightaway have nothing. 164 00:09:03,688 --> 00:09:04,248 Speaker 1: It seemed. 165 00:09:05,128 --> 00:09:09,408 Speaker 2: I was thinking, there's just something that doesn't quite add up. 166 00:09:10,168 --> 00:09:13,248 Speaker 2: I'd met all of his family, really beautiful people. He 167 00:09:13,368 --> 00:09:15,488 Speaker 2: was a doctor in their eyes, the doctor of the family. 168 00:09:16,328 --> 00:09:19,128 Speaker 2: So while there were a couple of things that didn't 169 00:09:19,128 --> 00:09:22,368 Speaker 2: add up, there were also things that did. So at 170 00:09:22,368 --> 00:09:27,328 Speaker 2: that stage, I was, I suppose, just deep down feeling 171 00:09:27,568 --> 00:09:30,288 Speaker 2: like there's a few things we need to figure out 172 00:09:30,328 --> 00:09:34,008 Speaker 2: before we get married and have lots of babies. I 173 00:09:34,048 --> 00:09:38,568 Speaker 2: asked a couple of questions about the money and about 174 00:09:38,608 --> 00:09:43,728 Speaker 2: the uniform to work, and I'd dropped him at the 175 00:09:43,728 --> 00:09:46,688 Speaker 2: hospital a couple of times, and every time I asked 176 00:09:46,768 --> 00:09:49,528 Speaker 2: him he seemed to have an explanation quickly or he 177 00:09:49,728 --> 00:09:53,528 Speaker 2: shut it down. And I didn't want to make things worse, 178 00:09:53,608 --> 00:09:56,928 Speaker 2: because we wanted to be happy and enjoy our day 179 00:09:57,528 --> 00:09:59,568 Speaker 2: and not go into an argument. 180 00:10:00,048 --> 00:10:04,048 Speaker 1: Almost a year into the relationship, tragedy strunk. Scarlet's dad 181 00:10:04,088 --> 00:10:07,688 Speaker 1: passed away suddenly. Through the shock and grief, Jag stayed 182 00:10:07,688 --> 00:10:09,808 Speaker 1: by her side, but it was also a time but 183 00:10:09,808 --> 00:10:13,008 Speaker 1: it began to raise new questions about who Jake really was, 184 00:10:13,448 --> 00:10:15,648 Speaker 1: especially when he was around her entire family. 185 00:10:16,128 --> 00:10:20,367 Speaker 2: All of the family went to my hometown of Wollongong 186 00:10:21,528 --> 00:10:24,727 Speaker 2: to be together, my mom and my sisters. We'd lived 187 00:10:24,768 --> 00:10:27,568 Speaker 2: in different areas of Australia, so we'd all come together, 188 00:10:28,008 --> 00:10:28,848 Speaker 2: including Jake. 189 00:10:29,168 --> 00:10:31,368 Speaker 1: He was with me at the time. 190 00:10:31,448 --> 00:10:33,968 Speaker 2: My sister was pregnant and she was needing to have 191 00:10:34,008 --> 00:10:37,248 Speaker 2: injections just as part of the pregnancy, very very routine, 192 00:10:38,048 --> 00:10:40,288 Speaker 2: and Jake did not want any part of it. He 193 00:10:40,328 --> 00:10:42,368 Speaker 2: didn't want to administer the needle, he didn't want to 194 00:10:42,368 --> 00:10:43,888 Speaker 2: know what was going on, he didn't want. 195 00:10:43,768 --> 00:10:44,568 Speaker 1: Any part of it. 196 00:10:45,248 --> 00:10:48,727 Speaker 2: He almost recoiled at the thought of having to do that. 197 00:10:49,208 --> 00:10:51,208 Speaker 2: It just seemed to be at odds with how you 198 00:10:51,528 --> 00:10:55,448 Speaker 2: think a doctor would react in that situation. But then 199 00:10:55,448 --> 00:10:58,528 Speaker 2: I thought, well, I guess you can still be a 200 00:10:58,608 --> 00:11:03,528 Speaker 2: doctor and not be overly caring. Or also, because he's 201 00:11:03,568 --> 00:11:06,888 Speaker 2: with me and she's my sister, therefore it didn't feel 202 00:11:06,928 --> 00:11:10,688 Speaker 2: like it was the right place that either way, My 203 00:11:11,248 --> 00:11:13,488 Speaker 2: poor sister was back on the job with having to 204 00:11:13,488 --> 00:11:19,968 Speaker 2: do it herself. And then after the funeral, my sister 205 00:11:20,008 --> 00:11:22,448 Speaker 2: and I decided to go and see my dad's GP 206 00:11:23,368 --> 00:11:26,608 Speaker 2: because my dad had seen the GP who had sent 207 00:11:26,688 --> 00:11:32,008 Speaker 2: him home with a life threatening infection which ended up 208 00:11:32,048 --> 00:11:33,608 Speaker 2: taking his life. 209 00:11:33,888 --> 00:11:35,448 Speaker 1: Yeah, so we were. 210 00:11:36,728 --> 00:11:41,088 Speaker 2: Just curious as to why the GP sent him home 211 00:11:41,608 --> 00:11:44,528 Speaker 2: when he should have been rushed straight to hospital at 212 00:11:44,528 --> 00:11:48,688 Speaker 2: that stage and he ended up dying from sepsis with 213 00:11:48,768 --> 00:11:55,288 Speaker 2: an infection that was untreated. So we thought, great, we'll 214 00:11:55,328 --> 00:11:57,368 Speaker 2: bring Jake because wouldn't it be good speaking to the 215 00:11:57,408 --> 00:12:00,648 Speaker 2: GP to have somebody who knows about medical information to 216 00:12:00,768 --> 00:12:04,288 Speaker 2: be there with us. Not only did he not ask 217 00:12:04,368 --> 00:12:08,848 Speaker 2: any questions, there was something the doctor said that we 218 00:12:08,888 --> 00:12:11,208 Speaker 2: didn't quite know what was. My sister turned to Jake 219 00:12:11,248 --> 00:12:14,248 Speaker 2: and said, oh, what does this mean? And he had nothing. 220 00:12:15,248 --> 00:12:21,128 Speaker 2: He couldn't explain it. So he'd gone from being my 221 00:12:21,248 --> 00:12:24,208 Speaker 2: boyfriend to sitting in the front row of my father's 222 00:12:24,288 --> 00:12:29,528 Speaker 2: funeral with a lot of doubt around who he was 223 00:12:31,008 --> 00:12:31,328 Speaker 2: and what. 224 00:12:31,368 --> 00:12:32,168 Speaker 1: The story was. 225 00:12:33,488 --> 00:12:36,128 Speaker 2: Because we were there for my dad's funeral, it was 226 00:12:36,168 --> 00:12:39,568 Speaker 2: sort of down the list of things to talk about. 227 00:12:40,808 --> 00:12:42,728 Speaker 1: As you would know, there's just a. 228 00:12:42,608 --> 00:12:45,168 Speaker 2: Lot of things that had to be done in that 229 00:12:45,328 --> 00:12:50,608 Speaker 2: period while you're in shock, while you're grieving, and so 230 00:12:51,088 --> 00:12:53,848 Speaker 2: it was just little seeds that got planted. 231 00:12:54,448 --> 00:12:57,288 Speaker 1: But these little seeds for Scarlet were big red flags 232 00:12:57,288 --> 00:13:00,727 Speaker 1: for her little sister, who went into full Nancy Drew mode. 233 00:13:01,528 --> 00:13:05,168 Speaker 2: Everybody grieves differently, and for my little sister, she put 234 00:13:05,168 --> 00:13:08,568 Speaker 2: her energy into investigating Jake. 235 00:13:08,888 --> 00:13:11,608 Speaker 1: Whatever it took. She was on the case. 236 00:13:12,088 --> 00:13:15,488 Speaker 2: I had mentioned a few concerns about the money to 237 00:13:15,608 --> 00:13:17,888 Speaker 2: my older sister, which pretty much means it goes through 238 00:13:17,928 --> 00:13:19,208 Speaker 2: the whole family, let's be honest. 239 00:13:19,288 --> 00:13:20,008 Speaker 1: So I think that. 240 00:13:22,168 --> 00:13:26,768 Speaker 2: The whole family had knew that there was not everything 241 00:13:26,928 --> 00:13:34,968 Speaker 2: being perfect and tracking, But that visit was what inspired 242 00:13:35,008 --> 00:13:39,888 Speaker 2: her because it went from him doing something to me 243 00:13:40,728 --> 00:13:44,408 Speaker 2: to him wronging the whole family at one of the 244 00:13:44,488 --> 00:13:48,408 Speaker 2: most devastating times in our life. So it became personal 245 00:13:48,448 --> 00:13:51,208 Speaker 2: for her. I said to her, I remember going, why 246 00:13:51,208 --> 00:13:51,848 Speaker 2: are you doing this? 247 00:13:51,968 --> 00:13:54,048 Speaker 1: Like go and live your life. It's my problem. 248 00:13:54,368 --> 00:13:56,408 Speaker 2: And that's when she said, if he sat in the 249 00:13:56,408 --> 00:13:58,968 Speaker 2: front row of my father's funeral and he sat in 250 00:13:58,968 --> 00:14:00,848 Speaker 2: that GP office with me, is my problem. 251 00:14:01,928 --> 00:14:05,808 Speaker 1: And she took it on. They were calling up going Scarlet, 252 00:14:05,848 --> 00:14:09,488 Speaker 1: I don't know about this guy. Have you got proof? 253 00:14:10,808 --> 00:14:14,008 Speaker 2: And being a journalist, you are used to getting the 254 00:14:14,048 --> 00:14:16,728 Speaker 2: facts and getting verification. But I'd never really thought to 255 00:14:16,888 --> 00:14:19,568 Speaker 2: order a boyfriend quite so strictly, I'm not sort of like, 256 00:14:20,008 --> 00:14:22,448 Speaker 2: I mean, maybe it's a good thing to be, like, Okay, 257 00:14:22,528 --> 00:14:24,648 Speaker 2: now can you give me your resume and your job 258 00:14:24,688 --> 00:14:27,768 Speaker 2: description and your references? But I sort of didn't think 259 00:14:28,088 --> 00:14:29,928 Speaker 2: to do that, so I sort of said, well, no, 260 00:14:30,208 --> 00:14:33,008 Speaker 2: I haven't. I've dropped him at work, I've met his 261 00:14:33,048 --> 00:14:36,448 Speaker 2: whole family. I'd met him through a friend originally, Like 262 00:14:36,528 --> 00:14:41,608 Speaker 2: there was lots of reasons to support him, and all 263 00:14:41,648 --> 00:14:45,048 Speaker 2: my friends and family loved Jake. He was an extremely 264 00:14:45,168 --> 00:14:50,568 Speaker 2: charismatic guy, he really was. Everybody loved him. But my 265 00:14:50,608 --> 00:14:52,648 Speaker 2: little sister, she was not going to let this go, 266 00:14:53,528 --> 00:14:58,408 Speaker 2: and she phoned the university, no record of him having 267 00:14:58,408 --> 00:15:03,128 Speaker 2: a medical degree. She phoned the hospital, no record of 268 00:15:03,248 --> 00:15:09,128 Speaker 2: him being at the hospital. And then the big one, 269 00:15:10,128 --> 00:15:17,208 Speaker 2: no record on APRA. So APRA is the site where 270 00:15:17,288 --> 00:15:20,168 Speaker 2: anyone registered as a health practitioner in Australia needs to 271 00:15:20,208 --> 00:15:22,608 Speaker 2: be registered. And it wasn't like he was there with 272 00:15:22,648 --> 00:15:24,928 Speaker 2: a little bit of a black mark against his name. 273 00:15:25,368 --> 00:15:33,928 Speaker 1: He wasn't there at all. There were so many questions 274 00:15:33,968 --> 00:15:37,328 Speaker 1: rolling around in Scarlett's head. It was overwhelming. She didn't 275 00:15:37,408 --> 00:15:39,808 Speaker 1: know what to do or how to approach this newfound 276 00:15:39,808 --> 00:15:42,608 Speaker 1: information to the man she loved. There was so much 277 00:15:42,648 --> 00:15:45,448 Speaker 1: going on, but one thing was clear. Her family was 278 00:15:45,488 --> 00:15:46,768 Speaker 1: not going to let this go. 279 00:15:47,168 --> 00:15:52,368 Speaker 2: It was harassment by family like it was text, it 280 00:15:52,488 --> 00:16:01,688 Speaker 2: was calls, it was relentless. And during that time I 281 00:16:01,688 --> 00:16:07,368 Speaker 2: had also lost my job. The reason for that is 282 00:16:07,448 --> 00:16:11,128 Speaker 2: I've been freelancing, so I didn't lose my job. With 283 00:16:11,168 --> 00:16:14,008 Speaker 2: everything that was happening, they needed somebody else to fill 284 00:16:14,008 --> 00:16:17,968 Speaker 2: those shifts, and so I'd changed jobs and gone into 285 00:16:18,008 --> 00:16:21,048 Speaker 2: PR during that period. 286 00:16:21,168 --> 00:16:23,208 Speaker 1: So there was a lot on my mind. 287 00:16:23,248 --> 00:16:25,808 Speaker 2: And when you start a new job, you don't really 288 00:16:25,808 --> 00:16:28,008 Speaker 2: want your phone ringing like ten times a day while 289 00:16:28,048 --> 00:16:31,848 Speaker 2: you're at your desk. Not a good look. And one 290 00:16:31,928 --> 00:16:34,648 Speaker 2: day I was at work, Ignore, ignore, Ignore, I just 291 00:16:34,648 --> 00:16:38,048 Speaker 2: started a new job, and she called the office reception. 292 00:16:38,728 --> 00:16:41,248 Speaker 2: She called the reception of where I worked, and they 293 00:16:41,288 --> 00:16:43,728 Speaker 2: came over to me because she was so panicked that 294 00:16:43,768 --> 00:16:47,168 Speaker 2: something had happened to me, because she started fearing for 295 00:16:47,248 --> 00:16:50,928 Speaker 2: my safety. So my little sister was investigating, and of 296 00:16:50,928 --> 00:16:53,528 Speaker 2: course she's relaying all this information to my other sister 297 00:16:53,568 --> 00:16:55,848 Speaker 2: and my mum and So it was like this three 298 00:16:55,928 --> 00:16:58,688 Speaker 2: way onslaught from my family of. 299 00:16:59,088 --> 00:16:59,848 Speaker 1: What are you doing? 300 00:16:59,928 --> 00:17:01,808 Speaker 2: And get out of there? And what's wrong with you? 301 00:17:01,888 --> 00:17:03,888 Speaker 2: And how can you be so stupid? At a time 302 00:17:03,928 --> 00:17:06,207 Speaker 2: when I was grieving the loss of my dad, I 303 00:17:06,208 --> 00:17:09,128 Speaker 2: had lost a job and was trying to make a 304 00:17:09,167 --> 00:17:13,568 Speaker 2: way in an new career and trying to save a 305 00:17:13,648 --> 00:17:16,648 Speaker 2: relationship which I believed was endgame for me. So there 306 00:17:16,648 --> 00:17:17,488 Speaker 2: was a lot going on. 307 00:17:18,248 --> 00:17:21,447 Speaker 1: The mental load was becoming unbearable, and Scarlett knew what 308 00:17:21,488 --> 00:17:23,808 Speaker 1: she had to do. She had to confront Jake. 309 00:17:25,448 --> 00:17:29,128 Speaker 2: I needed to find the right time because I knew 310 00:17:29,168 --> 00:17:32,408 Speaker 2: that it would be a big fight, a big stress. 311 00:17:32,808 --> 00:17:35,048 Speaker 2: I kept pushing it back, pushing it out of my 312 00:17:35,168 --> 00:17:39,568 Speaker 2: mind because it was all I could cope with. So 313 00:17:40,288 --> 00:17:43,768 Speaker 2: the first time I brought it up with him and said, 314 00:17:44,728 --> 00:17:49,528 Speaker 2: these are some concerns I have. There's this, this, and 315 00:17:49,608 --> 00:17:56,328 Speaker 2: this that doesn't add up. And the first response was, oh, okay, 316 00:17:56,368 --> 00:17:59,528 Speaker 2: well I don't think we should be together, and he 317 00:17:59,608 --> 00:18:05,728 Speaker 2: broke up with me. No answer, no explanation, He broke up. 318 00:18:05,928 --> 00:18:11,488 Speaker 2: And when that happened, I sobbed like a baby for 319 00:18:11,608 --> 00:18:14,808 Speaker 2: like twenty four hours in my bed and then came 320 00:18:14,888 --> 00:18:16,488 Speaker 2: down with the worst flu. 321 00:18:16,328 --> 00:18:17,328 Speaker 1: I've ever had. 322 00:18:17,928 --> 00:18:20,888 Speaker 2: I felt like the worst thing had just happened, and 323 00:18:21,208 --> 00:18:23,488 Speaker 2: I begged for. 324 00:18:23,528 --> 00:18:24,488 Speaker 1: Him to take me back. 325 00:18:26,288 --> 00:18:28,207 Speaker 2: I begged him to take me back, and so when 326 00:18:28,288 --> 00:18:31,408 Speaker 2: I did that, I was on the back foot because 327 00:18:31,488 --> 00:18:33,888 Speaker 2: I couldn't really beg to take him back and then 328 00:18:34,248 --> 00:18:37,927 Speaker 2: be demanding answers about who he was. 329 00:18:38,648 --> 00:18:41,248 Speaker 1: So she dropped it. The thought of losing Jake was 330 00:18:41,368 --> 00:18:43,888 Speaker 1: just too much, so they carried on as if nothing 331 00:18:43,888 --> 00:18:46,447 Speaker 1: had happened. But as you can guess, there were a 332 00:18:46,488 --> 00:18:49,848 Speaker 1: few people that weren't too happy about that. My family 333 00:18:49,968 --> 00:18:54,648 Speaker 1: was calling me, texting me, and emailing me hundreds of 334 00:18:54,688 --> 00:18:57,128 Speaker 1: times a day. It was really out of hand, and 335 00:18:57,168 --> 00:18:58,848 Speaker 1: of course it was coming from a place of love 336 00:18:59,128 --> 00:19:03,207 Speaker 1: and a place of concern, because they were getting really 337 00:19:03,248 --> 00:19:07,968 Speaker 1: concerned because there was no evidence he was who he 338 00:19:08,008 --> 00:19:11,488 Speaker 1: said he was. So once the relationship sort of picked 339 00:19:11,528 --> 00:19:13,968 Speaker 1: back up and I was feeling like we were going okay, 340 00:19:14,128 --> 00:19:19,968 Speaker 1: I started to raise these questions again, and he said, Okay, Scarlett, 341 00:19:20,008 --> 00:19:26,407 Speaker 1: I can send you a pay slip. Great, Okay, if 342 00:19:26,408 --> 00:19:31,088 Speaker 1: you've got a recent payslip, I'll take it. Wonderful. Can 343 00:19:31,128 --> 00:19:34,488 Speaker 1: I send it to you tomorrow? Wonderful? So I'm waiting 344 00:19:34,528 --> 00:19:36,088 Speaker 1: with baited breadth at my email. 345 00:19:36,448 --> 00:19:38,528 Speaker 2: I've never been so excited to get an email coming 346 00:19:38,568 --> 00:19:42,448 Speaker 2: in and I opened it up. It didn't look like mine, 347 00:19:42,608 --> 00:19:46,407 Speaker 2: but I thought, oh, okay, that's okay. We had a 348 00:19:46,448 --> 00:19:48,528 Speaker 2: good night, and by this stage, this is what our 349 00:19:48,568 --> 00:19:52,888 Speaker 2: relationship was like, good nights, bad nights, good days, bad days, 350 00:19:52,968 --> 00:19:56,488 Speaker 2: very much walking on eggshells, trying to protect the chemistry 351 00:19:56,488 --> 00:20:00,568 Speaker 2: and the attraction that we had. And I said, okay, 352 00:20:00,688 --> 00:20:05,728 Speaker 2: thank you so much, thank you so much for the payslip. Sorry, yeah, 353 00:20:05,968 --> 00:20:09,288 Speaker 2: I was sorry for asking. You know, it's just my family, 354 00:20:09,368 --> 00:20:12,088 Speaker 2: my sister, my mom, and you know I've been going 355 00:20:12,128 --> 00:20:13,727 Speaker 2: through a lot and there's been a lot of stress 356 00:20:13,768 --> 00:20:17,048 Speaker 2: going on. And the way it worked out, my family 357 00:20:17,128 --> 00:20:21,128 Speaker 2: became the enemy. And I did say, thanks for the 358 00:20:21,168 --> 00:20:25,848 Speaker 2: pay slip. How do you explain the opera registration? And 359 00:20:25,928 --> 00:20:30,568 Speaker 2: that was when the story changed. That was when he 360 00:20:30,648 --> 00:20:34,368 Speaker 2: gave me an answer that absolutely flawed me. He said, 361 00:20:34,408 --> 00:20:39,167 Speaker 2: the reason my name isn't there is because I'm in 362 00:20:39,248 --> 00:20:44,288 Speaker 2: witness protection and it's been wiped so I can't be found. 363 00:20:44,888 --> 00:20:51,008 Speaker 2: Because I'm an informant with a secret criminal investigation. I 364 00:20:51,048 --> 00:20:54,088 Speaker 2: work for a national intelligence agency. I used to be 365 00:20:54,168 --> 00:20:58,528 Speaker 2: in Special Forces, and I've protected the Malaysian Prime Minister's children. 366 00:20:59,088 --> 00:21:01,928 Speaker 2: He seemed very matter of fact, to the point where 367 00:21:01,928 --> 00:21:03,608 Speaker 2: I thought, well, if it was so matter of fact, 368 00:21:03,808 --> 00:21:08,368 Speaker 2: why did it take this long for this to come out? 369 00:21:08,488 --> 00:21:10,568 Speaker 1: Because we'd had such a. 370 00:21:10,568 --> 00:21:15,568 Speaker 2: Close, open relationship where we would spend hours having dn 371 00:21:15,688 --> 00:21:19,888 Speaker 2: ms about our childhoods and what was important to us, 372 00:21:19,968 --> 00:21:24,288 Speaker 2: and there were multiple opportunities for this kind of information 373 00:21:24,528 --> 00:21:28,048 Speaker 2: to come up. And so I just took a deep 374 00:21:28,088 --> 00:21:34,008 Speaker 2: breath and said, right, okay. It was such a fantastical, 375 00:21:34,128 --> 00:21:40,687 Speaker 2: bizarre response that I needed time to devise my cross examination. 376 00:21:40,808 --> 00:21:43,168 Speaker 2: I suppose, like I guess, I'm an interest of journalist's brain, 377 00:21:43,288 --> 00:21:46,288 Speaker 2: going what questions do I ask? 378 00:21:46,368 --> 00:21:46,848 Speaker 1: From here? 379 00:21:47,888 --> 00:21:52,167 Speaker 2: I felt like I could physically feel the cogs of 380 00:21:52,208 --> 00:21:53,648 Speaker 2: my mind turning. 381 00:21:54,008 --> 00:21:56,927 Speaker 1: So janke buy his own admission was a spy, and 382 00:21:56,968 --> 00:21:59,648 Speaker 1: around this time it prompted Scarlet to do a little 383 00:21:59,688 --> 00:22:00,808 Speaker 1: spying of her own. 384 00:22:01,408 --> 00:22:03,488 Speaker 2: In the top of my printer. You know how you 385 00:22:03,488 --> 00:22:06,888 Speaker 2: can lift up the lid to scan things. I was 386 00:22:06,968 --> 00:22:09,288 Speaker 2: looking in there, which is not something I do every day. 387 00:22:09,288 --> 00:22:12,088 Speaker 2: This is why it was a few weeks later I 388 00:22:12,288 --> 00:22:17,288 Speaker 2: found the pay slip It was a cobble together sticky 389 00:22:17,328 --> 00:22:21,848 Speaker 2: tape and liquid paper like arts and craft job. So 390 00:22:22,008 --> 00:22:25,248 Speaker 2: it wasn't the pay slip. It was a doctor document. 391 00:22:26,088 --> 00:22:28,447 Speaker 2: I had approached it very sarcastically, like you call this 392 00:22:28,608 --> 00:22:31,407 Speaker 2: by work, This is pretty amateur, this is pretty dodgy, 393 00:22:32,168 --> 00:22:34,768 Speaker 2: and it was, Oh, what's wrong with you? You know, 394 00:22:36,008 --> 00:22:39,648 Speaker 2: why do you keep going on with this? And he 395 00:22:39,768 --> 00:22:43,568 Speaker 2: also started to step away again of oh, okay, all right, 396 00:22:43,608 --> 00:22:46,487 Speaker 2: well you know, I'm out, and I was scared of that. 397 00:22:46,568 --> 00:22:48,728 Speaker 2: I didn't want to lose him. I was always trying 398 00:22:48,768 --> 00:22:52,288 Speaker 2: to get back to that incredible, great connection that we 399 00:22:52,368 --> 00:22:54,928 Speaker 2: had when we met, which was still there in pockets. 400 00:22:55,288 --> 00:22:59,168 Speaker 2: I was wanting to protect my own integrity and reputation 401 00:23:00,008 --> 00:23:04,247 Speaker 2: through all this, and also I had the view that 402 00:23:04,288 --> 00:23:07,247 Speaker 2: we were going to be together forever. Still through all this, 403 00:23:07,408 --> 00:23:08,328 Speaker 2: the view was that. 404 00:23:08,248 --> 00:23:09,447 Speaker 1: He was my forever person. 405 00:23:09,568 --> 00:23:12,848 Speaker 2: So I was wanting to protect both of our reputations 406 00:23:13,208 --> 00:23:16,648 Speaker 2: because when you share certain information about a relationship, there 407 00:23:16,728 --> 00:23:19,968 Speaker 2: is no going back. Through all this, I never wanted 408 00:23:20,008 --> 00:23:22,888 Speaker 2: to leave him or break up. I just wanted to 409 00:23:23,288 --> 00:23:27,408 Speaker 2: understand what was going on, and I was constantly giving 410 00:23:27,488 --> 00:23:30,368 Speaker 2: him the benefit of the doubt. With that I was 411 00:23:30,448 --> 00:23:33,488 Speaker 2: no closer to finding answers. In fact, I was more 412 00:23:33,528 --> 00:23:40,408 Speaker 2: confused before me starting the investigation. During this the family 413 00:23:40,528 --> 00:23:47,008 Speaker 2: pressure was becoming more and more relentless, and the language used, 414 00:23:47,688 --> 00:23:52,728 Speaker 2: which they've since apologized for, was very much victim blaming. 415 00:23:52,928 --> 00:23:56,328 Speaker 2: What is wrong with you? You're an idiot? How could someone 416 00:23:56,488 --> 00:24:00,168 Speaker 2: smart like you end up in a situation like this? 417 00:24:00,928 --> 00:24:03,608 Speaker 2: And I suppose they were saying out loud the things 418 00:24:03,608 --> 00:24:06,488 Speaker 2: that deep down I was saying to myself. I didn't 419 00:24:06,488 --> 00:24:08,528 Speaker 2: want to admit to myself that I'd been such an 420 00:24:08,608 --> 00:24:12,448 Speaker 2: idiot and got it so wrong, because in the beginning 421 00:24:12,448 --> 00:24:17,568 Speaker 2: it was such a strong intuitive connection, like I believed 422 00:24:17,608 --> 00:24:20,288 Speaker 2: with every cell of my body that this person was 423 00:24:20,328 --> 00:24:22,768 Speaker 2: the person I was meant to be with forever. So 424 00:24:22,928 --> 00:24:27,407 Speaker 2: going back on that was me denying the strength and 425 00:24:27,448 --> 00:24:32,528 Speaker 2: integrity of my own intuition. It was me admitting to myself, well, 426 00:24:33,808 --> 00:24:36,728 Speaker 2: my sense of what's real and what's right is completely off. 427 00:24:37,168 --> 00:24:42,848 Speaker 2: So I felt like by believing the lies would have 428 00:24:43,008 --> 00:24:48,888 Speaker 2: been dismantling everything that I believed to be true for 429 00:24:48,928 --> 00:24:53,048 Speaker 2: myself and my life. The consequences were much greater than 430 00:24:53,128 --> 00:24:57,808 Speaker 2: just the relationship breaking up, And so I did what 431 00:24:57,968 --> 00:25:01,608 Speaker 2: any love blind woman in my situation would do told 432 00:25:01,688 --> 00:25:05,048 Speaker 2: my family I broke up with him and then continue 433 00:25:05,088 --> 00:25:10,448 Speaker 2: to date him in secret. When I told my family 434 00:25:10,488 --> 00:25:16,648 Speaker 2: that I'd broken up, it did stop the relentless calls 435 00:25:16,968 --> 00:25:23,048 Speaker 2: and texts and pressure. It also meant I started this 436 00:25:23,208 --> 00:25:26,928 Speaker 2: secret part of the relationship with I don't care who 437 00:25:26,968 --> 00:25:30,288 Speaker 2: he is or what he does, it doesn't even matter. 438 00:25:30,968 --> 00:25:33,808 Speaker 2: I just want to be with him because I love him. 439 00:25:33,808 --> 00:25:37,088 Speaker 2: And I rationalized it in my mind by saying, of 440 00:25:37,208 --> 00:25:40,128 Speaker 2: course you can love someone and still have no idea 441 00:25:40,168 --> 00:25:40,728 Speaker 2: who they are. 442 00:25:41,568 --> 00:25:45,768 Speaker 1: It had become so secret, so he was lying. I 443 00:25:46,048 --> 00:25:46,648 Speaker 1: was lying. 444 00:25:46,808 --> 00:25:50,968 Speaker 2: And the ironic thing was is my job was in 445 00:25:51,408 --> 00:25:54,408 Speaker 2: pr at that stage before had been journalism, where your 446 00:25:54,488 --> 00:25:58,008 Speaker 2: job is to use your voice, share the facts, tell 447 00:25:58,048 --> 00:26:04,088 Speaker 2: the truth, be accurate. And in my home life everything 448 00:26:04,168 --> 00:26:08,368 Speaker 2: was a lie. It was eating me alive inside. 449 00:26:08,408 --> 00:26:09,167 Speaker 1: It was killing me. 450 00:26:09,248 --> 00:26:13,008 Speaker 2: I am a open, honest person, very close to my family. 451 00:26:13,488 --> 00:26:15,928 Speaker 2: I was at this luxury weekend away because we were 452 00:26:15,968 --> 00:26:19,328 Speaker 2: back to these beautiful luxury weekends, you know, with spars 453 00:26:19,408 --> 00:26:23,368 Speaker 2: and champagne and or dervs and all the things and fireplaces, 454 00:26:23,448 --> 00:26:25,407 Speaker 2: and got a call from my mum. But because I 455 00:26:25,488 --> 00:26:27,967 Speaker 2: was keeping up the facade. I couldn't just not be 456 00:26:28,048 --> 00:26:31,168 Speaker 2: answering the phone. So here I am in a bubble 457 00:26:31,168 --> 00:26:34,848 Speaker 2: bath with a glass of champagne, saying to Jake, you. 458 00:26:34,808 --> 00:26:39,128 Speaker 1: Know, sh it's my mum, Hi mom, Oh honey, what 459 00:26:39,168 --> 00:26:39,648 Speaker 1: are you up to? 460 00:26:39,968 --> 00:26:43,488 Speaker 2: Oh? You know, just pottering around the house, my head 461 00:26:43,488 --> 00:26:46,447 Speaker 2: down to Woolli's like just trying to keep up this 462 00:26:46,648 --> 00:26:51,488 Speaker 2: story of me being alone and not being with him, 463 00:26:51,648 --> 00:26:57,968 Speaker 2: And the calls were starting to be sympathetic. My family 464 00:26:58,088 --> 00:27:00,768 Speaker 2: was saying, how you're going, love, you know what with 465 00:27:00,888 --> 00:27:03,687 Speaker 2: the breakup and the emotional stress, and with my dad 466 00:27:03,768 --> 00:27:05,648 Speaker 2: they were saying, how are you? And so there was 467 00:27:05,648 --> 00:27:10,448 Speaker 2: this incredible guilt that I felt because I was with Jay. 468 00:27:10,568 --> 00:27:12,888 Speaker 2: Yet they were comforting me because they felt that I 469 00:27:12,928 --> 00:27:17,288 Speaker 2: was all alone wanting to start afresh, but I wasn't. 470 00:27:18,008 --> 00:27:20,288 Speaker 1: The more Scarlet thought about it, the more she felt 471 00:27:20,288 --> 00:27:23,208 Speaker 1: like a hypocrite. And Jake, well, he tended to agree. 472 00:27:23,568 --> 00:27:29,927 Speaker 1: The conversation turned to, well, if you're lying to your 473 00:27:29,928 --> 00:27:34,568 Speaker 1: whole family, then this can't be the real deal sort 474 00:27:34,608 --> 00:27:38,487 Speaker 1: of vibes. So there was so much lying going on. 475 00:27:38,648 --> 00:27:40,167 Speaker 1: He was lying, I was lying. 476 00:27:40,368 --> 00:27:43,408 Speaker 2: It was eating me up inside and I thought How 477 00:27:43,448 --> 00:27:45,888 Speaker 2: can I expect him to ever tell me the truth 478 00:27:46,248 --> 00:27:49,328 Speaker 2: if I'm not being truthful in my own life. I'm 479 00:27:49,328 --> 00:27:52,848 Speaker 2: believing now the key to us finally being together, finally 480 00:27:52,888 --> 00:27:55,368 Speaker 2: being in the clear. Throughout this time, I really had 481 00:27:55,368 --> 00:27:58,407 Speaker 2: this visual that it was going through this fog, and 482 00:27:58,448 --> 00:28:00,288 Speaker 2: if we just got to the end of the fog, 483 00:28:00,648 --> 00:28:03,568 Speaker 2: everything would be fantastic again and we could live happily 484 00:28:03,608 --> 00:28:07,967 Speaker 2: ever after. So it was time to stop lying, and 485 00:28:08,168 --> 00:28:13,888 Speaker 2: I wrote an email saying I've been seeing Jake, I 486 00:28:13,968 --> 00:28:17,128 Speaker 2: will be seeing him. You can either get on board 487 00:28:17,688 --> 00:28:20,848 Speaker 2: or you can cut me off. And I waited until 488 00:28:21,048 --> 00:28:23,168 Speaker 2: my family were all in the one place. They lived 489 00:28:23,168 --> 00:28:25,128 Speaker 2: all over Australia, so I'll wait until they were at 490 00:28:25,168 --> 00:28:29,328 Speaker 2: a gathering, all in the one place, and I hit send. 491 00:28:30,528 --> 00:28:36,568 Speaker 2: It was like dropping a bomb. They absolutely lost it. 492 00:28:37,248 --> 00:28:39,808 Speaker 2: But they were not physically in the same city, so 493 00:28:39,968 --> 00:28:42,568 Speaker 2: I was a little bit protected by being able to, 494 00:28:42,808 --> 00:28:45,688 Speaker 2: you know, not answer the thousands of phone calls coming through. 495 00:28:46,488 --> 00:28:48,168 Speaker 1: But what was. 496 00:28:48,168 --> 00:28:53,248 Speaker 2: Even more diabolical was how Jake reacted. He was in 497 00:28:53,288 --> 00:28:54,408 Speaker 2: my living room. 498 00:28:54,848 --> 00:28:55,928 Speaker 1: I said, we. 499 00:28:55,928 --> 00:28:59,208 Speaker 2: Can finally be together. I've told my family, like we 500 00:28:59,608 --> 00:29:01,528 Speaker 2: can be in the open. We don't need to hide it. 501 00:29:01,968 --> 00:29:06,848 Speaker 2: Let's just move forward, Let's do this. I felt, finally 502 00:29:06,968 --> 00:29:09,728 Speaker 2: we're free, and that weight had lifted off my shoe, 503 00:29:10,168 --> 00:29:12,928 Speaker 2: that tight feeling that you have when you're not speaking 504 00:29:13,008 --> 00:29:17,448 Speaker 2: your truth, it was released. He turned to me and said, 505 00:29:18,848 --> 00:29:21,928 Speaker 2: what did you do that for? I don't love you anyway. 506 00:29:25,208 --> 00:29:28,808 Speaker 2: My body just crippled. I was in so much shock, 507 00:29:29,608 --> 00:29:32,688 Speaker 2: like it really felt like being shot in the heart. 508 00:29:33,328 --> 00:29:39,168 Speaker 2: And so within an hour I had put a chasm 509 00:29:39,208 --> 00:29:43,408 Speaker 2: between myself and every single person in the world who 510 00:29:43,448 --> 00:29:44,128 Speaker 2: I cared about. 511 00:29:45,208 --> 00:29:49,288 Speaker 1: And I said, you don't mean that. I stood up 512 00:29:49,328 --> 00:29:51,048 Speaker 1: and tried to hug him. 513 00:29:51,368 --> 00:29:55,048 Speaker 2: I tried to beg for the love I suppose he 514 00:29:55,128 --> 00:29:56,328 Speaker 2: wasn't ready to give. 515 00:29:57,448 --> 00:29:59,088 Speaker 1: He wasn't ready to give that commitment. 516 00:29:59,968 --> 00:30:04,608 Speaker 2: He didn't mean it deep down. It was such a mirror. 517 00:30:05,208 --> 00:30:08,568 Speaker 2: It was such a mirror. It was me who didn't 518 00:30:08,608 --> 00:30:11,568 Speaker 2: love myself. It was like I thought the weight would 519 00:30:11,608 --> 00:30:14,408 Speaker 2: be lifted by telling my family the objective truth, but 520 00:30:14,648 --> 00:30:17,528 Speaker 2: really I was still lying to myself. 521 00:30:18,848 --> 00:30:22,048 Speaker 1: And that was the conversation that ended. 522 00:30:21,808 --> 00:30:28,128 Speaker 2: It well sort of after that, and then began, I 523 00:30:28,128 --> 00:30:32,408 Speaker 2: guess the great untangling, because throughout the period of time 524 00:30:32,528 --> 00:30:35,808 Speaker 2: there had been so much on and off we were on, 525 00:30:35,968 --> 00:30:37,808 Speaker 2: then we were off, and then it was a secret, 526 00:30:37,808 --> 00:30:42,368 Speaker 2: and then it wasn't. I wasn't the person to end it. 527 00:30:42,408 --> 00:30:45,208 Speaker 2: I really admire women who can end it and then 528 00:30:45,288 --> 00:30:49,448 Speaker 2: just go no contact. I wasn't able to do that 529 00:30:49,488 --> 00:30:55,448 Speaker 2: with him. The energetic connection in the chemistry was too strong. Fortunately, 530 00:30:55,568 --> 00:30:58,488 Speaker 2: I really loved my job and it gave me a 531 00:30:58,528 --> 00:31:01,808 Speaker 2: focus of I knew where to go each day and 532 00:31:01,848 --> 00:31:07,288 Speaker 2: I could be on. If I didn't have that, I 533 00:31:07,328 --> 00:31:10,208 Speaker 2: would have really spiraled into a deep depression, because I 534 00:31:10,368 --> 00:31:13,768 Speaker 2: was spiraling that way anyway. But I still needed to 535 00:31:13,768 --> 00:31:17,168 Speaker 2: get out of bed, have my shower, get to work, 536 00:31:17,728 --> 00:31:19,688 Speaker 2: And for a long time, it was going through the 537 00:31:19,728 --> 00:31:25,408 Speaker 2: motions of just getting through the next day, and it 538 00:31:25,528 --> 00:31:28,848 Speaker 2: was a game of can I go through today without 539 00:31:28,888 --> 00:31:34,608 Speaker 2: texting him? All I was thinking about was texting him. 540 00:31:34,928 --> 00:31:37,768 Speaker 2: I would hope that I would see him. I'd be 541 00:31:37,888 --> 00:31:39,728 Speaker 2: checking my phone to see if he texted me, and 542 00:31:39,728 --> 00:31:41,648 Speaker 2: then double checking that I hadn't gone through one of 543 00:31:41,648 --> 00:31:42,448 Speaker 2: the blocking him. 544 00:31:42,288 --> 00:31:45,248 Speaker 1: Periods, And it was all I thought about. 545 00:31:45,328 --> 00:31:47,328 Speaker 2: And I would write a little diary when I got 546 00:31:47,368 --> 00:31:49,688 Speaker 2: home from work, going okay, if I go to the gym, 547 00:31:49,968 --> 00:31:51,848 Speaker 2: and then I make my dinner and then I watch 548 00:31:51,888 --> 00:31:53,808 Speaker 2: my show, then I can go to bed. And if 549 00:31:53,808 --> 00:31:56,888 Speaker 2: I just follow that list, I won't text him. It 550 00:31:56,968 --> 00:32:00,288 Speaker 2: was one of those things where you know what is 551 00:32:00,328 --> 00:32:04,848 Speaker 2: good for you. I was very low in willpower. I 552 00:32:04,928 --> 00:32:08,288 Speaker 2: was feeling very, very depressed. I was questioning my intuition. 553 00:32:08,368 --> 00:32:09,648 Speaker 2: You know how they say, you know, this is why 554 00:32:09,768 --> 00:32:13,048 Speaker 2: they've got to trust your gut. But to myself, I 555 00:32:13,128 --> 00:32:16,088 Speaker 2: had trusted my gut and I'd chosen this person, So 556 00:32:16,168 --> 00:32:18,728 Speaker 2: what does that say about my gut? That's why we 557 00:32:18,808 --> 00:32:21,968 Speaker 2: kept having these rendezvous because I guess both of us 558 00:32:22,808 --> 00:32:25,728 Speaker 2: couldn't keep away from each other. There was one day 559 00:32:25,808 --> 00:32:31,128 Speaker 2: when my building manager said, oh, we found your boyfriend's license. 560 00:32:32,048 --> 00:32:34,048 Speaker 2: Because they weren't quite up with what was going on 561 00:32:34,088 --> 00:32:35,968 Speaker 2: in the relationship. They didn't know that we'd entered it. 562 00:32:36,368 --> 00:32:40,648 Speaker 2: I said oh, and she handed me his license and 563 00:32:40,728 --> 00:32:43,968 Speaker 2: I said, where did this come from? And she said, oh, 564 00:32:44,048 --> 00:32:48,568 Speaker 2: it was dropped outside, dropped outside the door. So he 565 00:32:48,688 --> 00:32:51,808 Speaker 2: had been at the door of my apartment without me knowing. 566 00:32:52,488 --> 00:32:57,168 Speaker 2: He's either left the license on purpose, or was drunk 567 00:32:57,168 --> 00:32:59,248 Speaker 2: and it just or something. It just fell out and 568 00:32:59,248 --> 00:33:02,248 Speaker 2: it was there. So this is what also happened over 569 00:33:02,248 --> 00:33:06,808 Speaker 2: that period. There was a series of him being around 570 00:33:06,888 --> 00:33:08,928 Speaker 2: me without me knowing there was once he messaged me 571 00:33:08,928 --> 00:33:11,168 Speaker 2: and said, you look really right in pink, because I 572 00:33:11,168 --> 00:33:13,648 Speaker 2: was wearing a pink shirt to work that day, but 573 00:33:13,728 --> 00:33:17,208 Speaker 2: I hadn't seen him. It was this weird he was 574 00:33:17,248 --> 00:33:22,368 Speaker 2: there without me knowing, and for a while I was 575 00:33:22,608 --> 00:33:27,928 Speaker 2: bringing home random men to have someone else in my 576 00:33:28,008 --> 00:33:31,568 Speaker 2: apartment in case he turned up. I was also airbnb 577 00:33:31,688 --> 00:33:34,568 Speaker 2: hosting at the time, which was fantastic, like there was 578 00:33:34,608 --> 00:33:37,288 Speaker 2: the safety and security of having other people in the house, 579 00:33:38,408 --> 00:33:42,648 Speaker 2: and so in the months following we would still catch 580 00:33:42,728 --> 00:33:45,368 Speaker 2: up from time to time. I told him I was 581 00:33:45,408 --> 00:33:50,368 Speaker 2: moving on started dating other people, and it became so 582 00:33:50,648 --> 00:33:54,688 Speaker 2: toxic that he would even drop me off at dates 583 00:33:54,728 --> 00:33:57,008 Speaker 2: with other men and then pick me up at the. 584 00:33:57,008 --> 00:33:58,368 Speaker 1: End of it. 585 00:33:58,368 --> 00:34:00,768 Speaker 2: It was like, we can't be together, but it was 586 00:34:00,888 --> 00:34:04,208 Speaker 2: just those pockets of not being able to be away 587 00:34:04,248 --> 00:34:08,488 Speaker 2: from each other, and he allowed it because I guess 588 00:34:08,527 --> 00:34:12,047 Speaker 2: he knew without stepping forward to claim me, there was 589 00:34:12,087 --> 00:34:16,207 Speaker 2: nothing he could do. But then, of course that was 590 00:34:16,248 --> 00:34:17,968 Speaker 2: just my attempts to forget about him. 591 00:34:19,168 --> 00:34:21,728 Speaker 1: This went on for months until one day when he 592 00:34:21,768 --> 00:34:25,128 Speaker 1: picked Scarlet up from work. Something in who just switched. 593 00:34:25,568 --> 00:34:29,608 Speaker 2: I looked at him with that different feeling, was like 594 00:34:29,688 --> 00:34:31,448 Speaker 2: it wasn't the same person. It was like some sort 595 00:34:31,448 --> 00:34:34,328 Speaker 2: of energetic cord had been cut and I was able 596 00:34:34,368 --> 00:34:39,647 Speaker 2: to let it go. It became very clear that I 597 00:34:39,688 --> 00:34:45,248 Speaker 2: didn't want the answers because finding out the truth with 598 00:34:45,368 --> 00:34:48,888 Speaker 2: him was not what it was about. Because the resolution 599 00:34:49,368 --> 00:34:52,928 Speaker 2: happened with me where I was able to feel like 600 00:34:53,888 --> 00:34:56,128 Speaker 2: I got what I needed and I got the closure 601 00:34:56,808 --> 00:35:01,848 Speaker 2: I needed. For the first time, I wasn't attracted to him. 602 00:35:03,088 --> 00:35:06,247 Speaker 2: I felt a bit of disgust. Actually, I just looked 603 00:35:06,248 --> 00:35:09,448 Speaker 2: at him, and he's a beautiful man. 604 00:35:10,288 --> 00:35:11,647 Speaker 1: In that moment, I. 605 00:35:11,808 --> 00:35:15,527 Speaker 2: Just saw he was a bit bedraggled. I think he 606 00:35:15,568 --> 00:35:18,527 Speaker 2: had a bit of sauce on his shirt or something like. 607 00:35:18,568 --> 00:35:21,607 Speaker 2: This happened to us all, you know, and it just 608 00:35:21,648 --> 00:35:25,488 Speaker 2: gave me the ick. I'd never throughout all of this scenario, 609 00:35:25,728 --> 00:35:28,808 Speaker 2: I never ever ever got the ick, But in that 610 00:35:29,648 --> 00:35:31,607 Speaker 2: final time I saw him, I did, and I just 611 00:35:31,728 --> 00:35:35,728 Speaker 2: breathed this sigh of relief and I thought, Yep, I'm done. 612 00:35:35,968 --> 00:35:39,848 Speaker 1: I'm truly done. And that was the last time I 613 00:35:39,888 --> 00:35:43,408 Speaker 1: ever saw him. Jake didn't give up easily, hundreds of 614 00:35:43,488 --> 00:35:46,568 Speaker 1: calls and texts followed, all of them ignored as Scarlet 615 00:35:46,568 --> 00:35:50,248 Speaker 1: stayed focused on what mattered most, making amends with her family. 616 00:35:50,648 --> 00:35:55,047 Speaker 1: The next day was when I had the conversation to say, look, 617 00:35:55,088 --> 00:35:58,648 Speaker 1: this is what's happened. And I was leaning at that 618 00:35:58,768 --> 00:36:02,288 Speaker 1: time really into what I was being told about myself. 619 00:36:02,328 --> 00:36:05,128 Speaker 1: It was a lot of self loathing, a lot of yes, 620 00:36:05,208 --> 00:36:08,768 Speaker 1: I'm an idiot, I know I'm stupid, and I'm sorry, 621 00:36:08,888 --> 00:36:16,128 Speaker 1: and I just things are over now, and things started 622 00:36:16,128 --> 00:36:19,328 Speaker 1: to repair, the relationship with my family was quite rocky, 623 00:36:19,328 --> 00:36:22,728 Speaker 1: as you can imagine, for a while before it started 624 00:36:22,728 --> 00:36:26,288 Speaker 1: to build back up. And it might sound like my 625 00:36:26,368 --> 00:36:28,808 Speaker 1: family has this strong hold over me, and it wasn't 626 00:36:28,848 --> 00:36:29,448 Speaker 1: like that at all. 627 00:36:29,528 --> 00:36:34,047 Speaker 2: It was really just normal, concerned family. I was going 628 00:36:34,088 --> 00:36:37,047 Speaker 2: to do what I wanted to do anyway, which I 629 00:36:37,088 --> 00:36:41,607 Speaker 2: clearly did. They were the voice that I had deep 630 00:36:41,648 --> 00:36:44,328 Speaker 2: inside that I was ignoring and didn't want to listen 631 00:36:44,368 --> 00:36:46,288 Speaker 2: to myself about. This is why it hurt so much, 632 00:36:46,368 --> 00:36:48,888 Speaker 2: because they were saying out aloud the very thing I 633 00:36:48,928 --> 00:36:52,567 Speaker 2: was needing to tell myself. I felt so ashamed, I 634 00:36:52,648 --> 00:36:57,207 Speaker 2: felt so embarrassed. I felt it changed the whole way 635 00:36:57,248 --> 00:36:59,527 Speaker 2: I looked at myself. I'd always felt that I was 636 00:36:59,568 --> 00:37:06,488 Speaker 2: this confident, expressive speaker, and that completely broke my whole 637 00:37:06,568 --> 00:37:12,087 Speaker 2: self identity. I became an salute man, hating be arch. 638 00:37:12,408 --> 00:37:15,288 Speaker 2: I remember I was at a bar after work, and 639 00:37:15,448 --> 00:37:17,728 Speaker 2: where I worked was actually close to the hospital. So 640 00:37:17,768 --> 00:37:19,848 Speaker 2: I'm at the bar and there's this quite nice looking 641 00:37:19,888 --> 00:37:22,167 Speaker 2: guy and he said, oh, hi, how are you going? 642 00:37:22,248 --> 00:37:24,608 Speaker 2: And said, oh hi, how are you and what do 643 00:37:24,648 --> 00:37:26,647 Speaker 2: you do? Probably not the best opening line, but hey, 644 00:37:26,728 --> 00:37:29,208 Speaker 2: you know that's what came up. And he said, oh, 645 00:37:29,248 --> 00:37:32,368 Speaker 2: I'm a doctor, and I said that's what they all 646 00:37:32,488 --> 00:37:36,208 Speaker 2: left and say, and then like walked off. So the 647 00:37:36,408 --> 00:37:40,208 Speaker 2: poor man must have been like, far out, what is 648 00:37:40,368 --> 00:37:41,448 Speaker 2: wrong with that woman? 649 00:37:42,248 --> 00:37:43,608 Speaker 1: So I was very. 650 00:37:43,368 --> 00:37:48,168 Speaker 2: Skeptical and for a long time was going into situations 651 00:37:49,528 --> 00:37:52,248 Speaker 2: wanting to have the upper hand and not believing anything. 652 00:37:53,008 --> 00:37:56,368 Speaker 2: I would verbally say in the shower every day, Oh fuck, 653 00:37:56,408 --> 00:38:01,527 Speaker 2: I hate men or psychopaths, narcisst misogynists like I was 654 00:38:02,168 --> 00:38:04,808 Speaker 2: really like that, and I had to change that thinking. 655 00:38:05,408 --> 00:38:07,648 Speaker 2: I had to change that thinking because if I believed 656 00:38:07,648 --> 00:38:10,087 Speaker 2: that I was never going to find connection with someone, 657 00:38:10,848 --> 00:38:13,288 Speaker 2: so a lot of it was rewiring my beliefs around, 658 00:38:14,168 --> 00:38:19,127 Speaker 2: there are good men, there is something to believe in, 659 00:38:19,208 --> 00:38:22,768 Speaker 2: you can have connection. It's very funny because my current 660 00:38:22,848 --> 00:38:27,648 Speaker 2: partner actually did work for a national intelligence agency. So 661 00:38:28,488 --> 00:38:32,248 Speaker 2: when when we met and he sort of told me 662 00:38:32,288 --> 00:38:34,888 Speaker 2: on the you know, the second meeting, I was like, 663 00:38:34,888 --> 00:38:36,768 Speaker 2: you're joking, Like, what is it with me in the 664 00:38:36,808 --> 00:38:41,648 Speaker 2: intelligence community? This has never been anything intentional? He doesn't now, 665 00:38:41,688 --> 00:38:44,528 Speaker 2: but it was. You find out, it's kind of quite boring. 666 00:38:44,608 --> 00:38:47,567 Speaker 2: The way that Jake painted it was much more exciting now. 667 00:38:47,608 --> 00:38:50,368 Speaker 1: I bet you're wondering whether Scarlet actually did get to 668 00:38:50,408 --> 00:38:53,488 Speaker 1: the bottom of Jake's career. Dear listener, I realized that 669 00:38:53,928 --> 00:38:56,248 Speaker 1: my desire to get to the bottom of what happened 670 00:38:56,888 --> 00:39:00,408 Speaker 1: was more the journalist in me coming out wanting to 671 00:39:00,408 --> 00:39:03,488 Speaker 1: give people the end of the story, rather than me 672 00:39:03,808 --> 00:39:06,568 Speaker 1: wanting it for myself. It was more like I felt 673 00:39:06,608 --> 00:39:10,448 Speaker 1: like this public service. It's more I felt like this 674 00:39:10,528 --> 00:39:12,688 Speaker 1: community service that I needed to find the end so 675 00:39:12,768 --> 00:39:14,488 Speaker 1: I could give all the people who were hanging on 676 00:39:14,528 --> 00:39:16,848 Speaker 1: the edge of their seats the end of the story. 677 00:39:17,488 --> 00:39:19,648 Speaker 1: And it wasn't about that I'd receive the lesson that 678 00:39:19,688 --> 00:39:24,168 Speaker 1: I needed to and me going down that rabbit hole 679 00:39:25,048 --> 00:39:28,848 Speaker 1: would have not helped me. It would have distracted me 680 00:39:28,888 --> 00:39:32,608 Speaker 1: from getting on with my life, from my work, from 681 00:39:32,728 --> 00:39:36,128 Speaker 1: meeting someone else. It would have just become me going 682 00:39:36,368 --> 00:39:40,208 Speaker 1: right down into that never ending abyss. Because I thought 683 00:39:40,208 --> 00:39:42,127 Speaker 1: about do I reach out to the ex girlfriend and 684 00:39:42,168 --> 00:39:44,567 Speaker 1: things like this, I thought, no, what will it serve? 685 00:39:44,608 --> 00:39:47,288 Speaker 1: I started writing a book called The Spy Who Shagged 686 00:39:47,288 --> 00:39:52,728 Speaker 1: Me and my book is actually called voice Print. But 687 00:39:52,768 --> 00:39:54,208 Speaker 1: I was like the Spy who Shagged Me and I 688 00:39:54,208 --> 00:39:57,527 Speaker 1: wanted to record it. But then I thought, would the 689 00:39:57,568 --> 00:40:03,168 Speaker 1: process of writing this book help me or hinder me? Absolutely? 690 00:40:03,248 --> 00:40:06,527 Speaker 2: Speaking about the story, sharing about what happened, sharing the 691 00:40:06,608 --> 00:40:11,008 Speaker 2: feelings from my own perspective, the lessons that I learned. 692 00:40:11,208 --> 00:40:14,527 Speaker 2: That has been healing and that has been helpful. But 693 00:40:14,928 --> 00:40:17,168 Speaker 2: getting to the bottom of who he is and what 694 00:40:17,248 --> 00:40:20,288 Speaker 2: he does, I just thought wouldn't be a great use 695 00:40:20,328 --> 00:40:23,968 Speaker 2: of my time or energy. To this day, I don't 696 00:40:24,048 --> 00:40:26,128 Speaker 2: know where he is, I don't know what he does, 697 00:40:26,208 --> 00:40:28,768 Speaker 2: I don't know if he's still a doctor. But I'm 698 00:40:28,768 --> 00:40:32,728 Speaker 2: okay with that because I understand myself better. I know 699 00:40:32,808 --> 00:40:35,328 Speaker 2: who I am, I know the truth of what I 700 00:40:35,408 --> 00:40:38,568 Speaker 2: stand for, and that's way more important than getting to 701 00:40:38,608 --> 00:40:41,768 Speaker 2: the bottom of his life. I don't know why he lied, 702 00:40:42,208 --> 00:40:45,848 Speaker 2: and I don't know if he even knows the truth 703 00:40:45,968 --> 00:40:48,688 Speaker 2: of what he does or who he is. I've never 704 00:40:48,728 --> 00:40:53,047 Speaker 2: felt love and attraction like that since that relationship, and 705 00:40:53,088 --> 00:40:56,527 Speaker 2: I have a lot of gratitude to him for being 706 00:40:56,568 --> 00:41:01,248 Speaker 2: able to experience that feeling. And I also believe that 707 00:41:01,288 --> 00:41:05,408 Speaker 2: feeling was so closely linked to the danger and deception 708 00:41:05,488 --> 00:41:09,728 Speaker 2: of the relationship. I had those highs because I had 709 00:41:09,928 --> 00:41:17,928 Speaker 2: those incredible lows. It was dangerous, it was risky, and 710 00:41:17,968 --> 00:41:20,608 Speaker 2: that's what potentially gave me that feeling. And I believe 711 00:41:20,648 --> 00:41:23,527 Speaker 2: with relationships now you do have a choice of what 712 00:41:23,688 --> 00:41:27,048 Speaker 2: kind of relationship you want. The relationship I'm in gives 713 00:41:27,048 --> 00:41:34,768 Speaker 2: me incredible peace and stability and reliability. There's not the 714 00:41:34,808 --> 00:41:37,288 Speaker 2: peak high as I suppose, as you could describe with 715 00:41:37,368 --> 00:41:40,368 Speaker 2: that previous relationship, but there are also not those lows. 716 00:41:41,448 --> 00:41:47,607 Speaker 2: It's very stabilizing. It's a great foundation, and that can 717 00:41:47,648 --> 00:41:49,848 Speaker 2: be a hard pattern to recognize if you're used to 718 00:41:49,888 --> 00:41:51,488 Speaker 2: being in relationships where it. 719 00:41:51,528 --> 00:41:52,288 Speaker 1: Is those. 720 00:41:53,688 --> 00:41:57,568 Speaker 2: High highs we go chasing that again. I like feeling 721 00:41:57,728 --> 00:42:01,488 Speaker 2: safe and secure and cared for in a relationship. I 722 00:42:01,528 --> 00:42:05,008 Speaker 2: can totally be myself. I can speak my truth. I 723 00:42:05,048 --> 00:42:07,288 Speaker 2: never feel like I have to filter what I'm going 724 00:42:07,368 --> 00:42:10,047 Speaker 2: to say before it. I can be open with my 725 00:42:10,048 --> 00:42:14,488 Speaker 2: friends and family, and the relationship is a real foundation 726 00:42:15,008 --> 00:42:17,368 Speaker 2: to live the life I want to live and do 727 00:42:17,448 --> 00:42:20,127 Speaker 2: the things I want to do, rather than being this 728 00:42:20,328 --> 00:42:23,408 Speaker 2: all consuming focus in my life. Because I look back 729 00:42:23,448 --> 00:42:26,207 Speaker 2: at that time and I can tell you objectively other 730 00:42:26,248 --> 00:42:28,687 Speaker 2: things that I was doing, but he was the only 731 00:42:28,768 --> 00:42:31,567 Speaker 2: thing that was taking up all of my emotional headspace. 732 00:42:32,208 --> 00:42:35,047 Speaker 1: But every dark cloud has a silver lining, and this 733 00:42:35,128 --> 00:42:37,608 Speaker 1: one will. It led to a brand new career path. 734 00:42:38,128 --> 00:42:42,248 Speaker 2: I'm so grateful for that experience because it's what taught 735 00:42:42,288 --> 00:42:44,488 Speaker 2: me that there is a huge difference between speaking with 736 00:42:44,528 --> 00:42:49,247 Speaker 2: confidence and speaking your truth. And now as a voice 737 00:42:49,288 --> 00:42:53,568 Speaker 2: and speaking coach, I serve my clients so much better 738 00:42:53,728 --> 00:42:56,568 Speaker 2: because I'm not just about the surface level speaking tips. 739 00:42:56,648 --> 00:42:59,888 Speaker 2: I really know what it truly means to speak your 740 00:42:59,888 --> 00:43:03,208 Speaker 2: truth and to find your voice. So without that experience, 741 00:43:03,728 --> 00:43:07,488 Speaker 2: I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing now, and I'm 742 00:43:07,528 --> 00:43:10,527 Speaker 2: incredibly grateful for it, which I'm able to many years 743 00:43:10,568 --> 00:43:14,968 Speaker 2: later in the moment, not so much now. I honestly 744 00:43:15,008 --> 00:43:19,328 Speaker 2: feel nothing but gratitude for the situation. It really was 745 00:43:19,368 --> 00:43:22,848 Speaker 2: something that happened for me, not to me. When these 746 00:43:22,888 --> 00:43:26,288 Speaker 2: things happened at the time, you can feel like such 747 00:43:26,288 --> 00:43:26,768 Speaker 2: a victim. 748 00:43:27,448 --> 00:43:30,168 Speaker 1: How could they do this to me? How could this 749 00:43:30,328 --> 00:43:34,928 Speaker 1: happen to me? I went and saw a counselor with 750 00:43:35,008 --> 00:43:36,167 Speaker 1: all this, and. 751 00:43:36,168 --> 00:43:39,328 Speaker 2: I was feeling, oh my gosh, like this is terrible, 752 00:43:40,008 --> 00:43:41,768 Speaker 2: and was saying. 753 00:43:42,088 --> 00:43:47,368 Speaker 1: He lied about this and lied about that, and she said, oh, yes, 754 00:43:47,648 --> 00:43:51,328 Speaker 1: I just had somebody in with a similar situation. I said, sorry, 755 00:43:51,368 --> 00:43:54,528 Speaker 1: what she was like, yes, happens more than you think. 756 00:43:54,848 --> 00:43:57,248 Speaker 1: And then since that happened, and I have told the 757 00:43:57,328 --> 00:44:03,208 Speaker 1: story to friends and family that I meet, everyone seems 758 00:44:03,248 --> 00:44:07,488 Speaker 1: to have a similar story about someone lying similar to 759 00:44:07,568 --> 00:44:11,328 Speaker 1: this circumstance, and so I don't feel special that having 760 00:44:11,368 --> 00:44:15,808 Speaker 1: happened to me. In fact, now I feel incredibly grateful 761 00:44:15,808 --> 00:44:18,328 Speaker 1: for the experience, grateful to have met him, to have 762 00:44:18,448 --> 00:44:18,928 Speaker 1: known him. 763 00:44:19,128 --> 00:44:24,047 Speaker 2: He's definitely played a role in my journey, and I 764 00:44:24,208 --> 00:44:27,968 Speaker 2: would not be able to be the coach that I 765 00:44:28,008 --> 00:44:31,848 Speaker 2: am today without that experience. I can definitely work on 766 00:44:31,888 --> 00:44:35,248 Speaker 2: a much deeper level with an understanding that I wouldn't 767 00:44:35,248 --> 00:44:39,768 Speaker 2: have had I'd put all of my energy and pinned 768 00:44:39,808 --> 00:44:43,008 Speaker 2: all my hopes on this person being my husband, being 769 00:44:43,088 --> 00:44:46,928 Speaker 2: the father of my children. And I've learned about relationships 770 00:44:46,928 --> 00:44:49,288 Speaker 2: that it's really less about the other person and more 771 00:44:49,328 --> 00:44:54,088 Speaker 2: about yourself, understanding what you want, loving yourself, having compassion 772 00:44:54,168 --> 00:45:01,168 Speaker 2: for yourself. And I am absolutely thriving now. I have 773 00:45:01,328 --> 00:45:04,928 Speaker 2: a successful business, I have a beautiful partner. I've chosen 774 00:45:04,968 --> 00:45:08,848 Speaker 2: not to get married or have children. I feel very independent, 775 00:45:09,088 --> 00:45:12,968 Speaker 2: and any young women who are getting into relationships, I 776 00:45:13,008 --> 00:45:16,528 Speaker 2: feel absolutely qualified to be able to give them advice 777 00:45:16,688 --> 00:45:19,368 Speaker 2: on what to do. And it's always listened to your 778 00:45:19,448 --> 00:45:22,768 Speaker 2: own inner voice. Don't look for someone else to complete you, 779 00:45:23,208 --> 00:45:26,208 Speaker 2: look at how you yourself can be completed. And if 780 00:45:26,208 --> 00:45:29,088 Speaker 2: something happens in a relationship, it's always a lesson. 781 00:45:29,168 --> 00:45:34,008 Speaker 1: It's often a mirror. It's giving us the opportunity to learn. 782 00:45:33,768 --> 00:45:37,768 Speaker 2: More about ourselves. And that's why I say relationships and 783 00:45:39,088 --> 00:45:42,768 Speaker 2: time with people is never wasted. It is if you 784 00:45:42,848 --> 00:45:46,008 Speaker 2: stay there for too many years. But if you can 785 00:45:46,408 --> 00:45:50,567 Speaker 2: appreciate that interaction and learn those lessons, then you'll end 786 00:45:50,648 --> 00:45:53,527 Speaker 2: up being much further ahead in your own life. I 787 00:45:53,568 --> 00:45:56,648 Speaker 2: had been on radio and TV all through my twenties, 788 00:45:57,488 --> 00:46:01,808 Speaker 2: really confident speaking, and I thought that made me a really. 789 00:46:01,648 --> 00:46:03,087 Speaker 1: Confident communicator, but it didn't. 790 00:46:03,208 --> 00:46:05,648 Speaker 2: It was the relationship that taught me to truly find 791 00:46:05,688 --> 00:46:08,808 Speaker 2: my voice. I had to learn what the truth was. 792 00:46:08,848 --> 00:46:10,648 Speaker 2: I had to learn how to use my voice in 793 00:46:10,768 --> 00:46:14,408 Speaker 2: all areas of my life, not just professionally. In my book, 794 00:46:14,448 --> 00:46:18,408 Speaker 2: I talk about finding your FMV moment, So people think, oh, 795 00:46:18,448 --> 00:46:21,728 Speaker 2: fuck my voice, but FMV is a find my voice. 796 00:46:21,808 --> 00:46:24,608 Speaker 2: Where is that find my voice moment? We often reflect 797 00:46:24,608 --> 00:46:26,648 Speaker 2: on the time when we lost our voice, so we 798 00:46:26,648 --> 00:46:30,167 Speaker 2: were embarrassed or we didn't speak, but this is going 799 00:46:30,168 --> 00:46:32,128 Speaker 2: back and going when did we speak? And for me, 800 00:46:32,528 --> 00:46:34,848 Speaker 2: that relationship was my FMV moment. 801 00:46:52,048 --> 00:46:55,088 Speaker 1: Everyone has an Ex's a MINTI Media production and proudly 802 00:46:55,168 --> 00:46:57,688 Speaker 1: part of the Mum and mea network. This interview was 803 00:46:57,768 --> 00:47:01,088 Speaker 1: conducted and episode narrated by me Georgia Love and was 804 00:47:01,128 --> 00:47:03,688 Speaker 1: written and produced by Linda Scott. If you have a 805 00:47:03,728 --> 00:47:06,968 Speaker 1: story you'd like to share, email podcast at momameia dot 806 00:47:07,008 --> 00:47:09,567 Speaker 1: com dot au. You can support us by following the 807 00:47:09,568 --> 00:47:11,928 Speaker 1: show in your favorite podcast app and leaving us a 808 00:47:12,008 --> 00:47:16,408 Speaker 1: five star review. We'll see you for the next episode.