WEBVTT - Osher Günsberg On What Happens When TV Fame Ends 0:00:10.365 --> 0:00:15.005 You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast. Mama Mea acknowledges 0:00:15.045 --> 0:00:17.685 the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast 0:00:17.765 --> 0:00:18.525 is recorded on. 0:00:18.885 --> 0:00:21.685 Oh I'll be dead, There's no question. There's no question. 0:00:21.885 --> 0:00:24.325 Yeah, I wouldn't be alive. There's absolutely no question, no 0:00:24.445 --> 0:00:26.405 question at all. The horror that I was lining with. 0:00:26.565 --> 0:00:28.605 Forget about it, absolutely forget about it. 0:00:36.445 --> 0:00:40.405 Welcome to No Filter. I'm Kate lane Brook. You know 0:00:40.525 --> 0:00:44.485 Osher Gunsberg. He's the face of The Bachelor, The Bachelorette, 0:00:44.525 --> 0:00:49.325 the Masks, singer and of course Australian Idol. He's the 0:00:49.445 --> 0:00:53.365 voice of bond I Rescue and he's been so familiar 0:00:53.445 --> 0:00:57.245 to us on our screens for more than two decades. 0:00:58.325 --> 0:01:02.845 But what happens when the cameras stop rolling. In this conversation, 0:01:03.005 --> 0:01:05.565 Osher talks about what it's been like to find his 0:01:05.725 --> 0:01:09.725 footing in a changing industry and what it really feels 0:01:09.845 --> 0:01:13.165 like to be in your fifties with years of experience 0:01:13.805 --> 0:01:17.205 and struggling to find work. He opens up about the 0:01:17.245 --> 0:01:20.805 financial pressure that comes with that and how he's learning 0:01:20.885 --> 0:01:26.525 to redefine what success actually looks like. We also talk 0:01:26.645 --> 0:01:30.805 about his ongoing mental health journey. There's no conversation with 0:01:30.885 --> 0:01:35.845 Osher without addressing that, and what makes his marriage work 0:01:36.245 --> 0:01:41.285 during tough times, why step fatherhood has been the most 0:01:41.325 --> 0:01:45.525 rewarding and hardest role of his life. This is a 0:01:45.565 --> 0:01:51.245 conversation about identity, resilience, and figuring out who you are 0:01:51.525 --> 0:01:56.245 when everything around you starts to shift. He's a guy 0:01:56.485 --> 0:02:04.445 who goes deep, and so do we. Oshagunsburg, Welcome to 0:02:04.525 --> 0:02:05.045 No Filter. 0:02:05.725 --> 0:02:06.925 I'm thrilled to be here. 0:02:07.605 --> 0:02:09.765 Okay, So when I was doing my deep dive on you, 0:02:10.525 --> 0:02:13.885 which I already was quite in deep with you actually 0:02:14.365 --> 0:02:18.605 just through having been alive in this country, nobody can 0:02:18.725 --> 0:02:23.285 interview you without referring to your haircuts or your name changes. 0:02:24.285 --> 0:02:26.965 Okay, if that's what they want, what I wink that 0:02:27.045 --> 0:02:29.525 the content of what they bring to a production has 0:02:29.725 --> 0:02:30.245 more to do. 0:02:31.205 --> 0:02:34.165 But no, But here's the thing. 0:02:35.165 --> 0:02:39.925 I actually think that they're markers of certain periods in 0:02:39.965 --> 0:02:40.925 your life. 0:02:41.805 --> 0:02:45.805 Of course, as is the therapy. 0:02:45.725 --> 0:02:49.565 That you have embarked upon that goes with each of those, 0:02:49.685 --> 0:02:51.965 and the self work that you have done. 0:02:52.525 --> 0:02:55.365 Oh yeah, and maybe I've been a bit more visual 0:02:55.645 --> 0:02:59.605 or visible about that than others, because you can't be 0:02:59.685 --> 0:03:02.965 what you can't see. And I felt it was important 0:03:03.005 --> 0:03:06.285 to start talking about the kind of things that I 0:03:06.325 --> 0:03:09.005 needed to hear when I wasn't doing very well. And 0:03:09.045 --> 0:03:11.325 I think it's important to normalize this stuff. You're nice 0:03:11.285 --> 0:03:15.645 stranger to normalizing difficult conversations, and I think it's important 0:03:15.685 --> 0:03:18.925 that if you just start speaking in a way. Look, 0:03:19.005 --> 0:03:21.805 I'm a human like anybody, and I do life that 0:03:21.925 --> 0:03:24.245 might be a little more visible than others, but you know, 0:03:24.405 --> 0:03:27.445 I'm a human being and I do human stuff, and 0:03:27.485 --> 0:03:29.845 it's human to feel these things. And if you're feeling 0:03:29.925 --> 0:03:31.365 some of them, they can end in this way, but 0:03:31.445 --> 0:03:33.725 if you do something about it, it can end up better. 0:03:34.085 --> 0:03:39.205 I'm curious about the point at which because your evolution 0:03:39.445 --> 0:03:41.685 has been remarkable, and as you said, a lot of 0:03:41.765 --> 0:03:48.205 it conducted under the like often obsessive and cruel scrutiny 0:03:48.245 --> 0:03:54.445 of the public eye, right, and you have a remarkable 0:03:54.565 --> 0:03:57.285 capacity to bring yourself to things. 0:03:58.445 --> 0:04:00.605 Well, I chose this job, all right. 0:04:00.925 --> 0:04:03.885 There's a moment in Godfather Part two where Michael Corleoni 0:04:04.005 --> 0:04:05.205 is talking a hymen Roth. 0:04:05.685 --> 0:04:07.925 Please do the accent, Please do the accent, Please do 0:04:07.965 --> 0:04:09.285 the accent, Please do the accent. 0:04:10.045 --> 0:04:14.765 You know he's talking to hyd Roth, who is actually 0:04:14.765 --> 0:04:17.045 his acting coach and one of the great acting coaches 0:04:17.445 --> 0:04:19.965 of the world. He's upset at Michael Coleoni for whacking 0:04:20.045 --> 0:04:22.005 one of his friends, and he says, but I never 0:04:22.045 --> 0:04:25.165 complained because it was business, and this is the business 0:04:25.205 --> 0:04:28.245 we have chosen, And this is the job I chose. 0:04:28.285 --> 0:04:29.805 I chose a public facing job. 0:04:29.925 --> 0:04:32.645 And there's parts of the public facing job that I 0:04:32.685 --> 0:04:37.405 have dealt with in lately far better ways. 0:04:37.125 --> 0:04:39.765 Than I used to, But there's this is the job 0:04:39.805 --> 0:04:40.205 I chose. 0:04:40.245 --> 0:04:43.325 I chose a job where I am putting myself out 0:04:43.405 --> 0:04:49.765 to the opinions of the public. And part of the 0:04:49.925 --> 0:04:52.085 work that I get to do is I get to 0:04:52.205 --> 0:04:54.325 have a long, hard look at myself in the magical 0:04:54.365 --> 0:04:57.125 maas and mirrors and really get to choose what those 0:04:57.245 --> 0:04:59.245 opinions of the public mean to me. And in the 0:04:59.285 --> 0:05:01.645 past I have sometimes made the mean all kinds of 0:05:01.685 --> 0:05:04.965 things and it has derailed me in parts, and lately, 0:05:05.165 --> 0:05:06.845 in the last fifteen years or so, it's been a 0:05:06.845 --> 0:05:09.965 lot easier. So yeah, I mean, it's important. It's important 0:05:10.005 --> 0:05:13.525 to be able to have this kind of conversation publicly, 0:05:13.605 --> 0:05:16.445 and that's why I started the podcast in twenty thirteen. 0:05:16.445 --> 0:05:18.565 Bookcase I wasn't hearing the kind of things that I 0:05:18.605 --> 0:05:19.765 was needing to hear when I. 0:05:19.725 --> 0:05:21.685 Wasn't doing very well. I wasn't doing well when I 0:05:21.685 --> 0:05:24.445 started that show. And similarly, that's why I wrote this book. 0:05:24.445 --> 0:05:25.965 In what was I wrote this book because I read 0:05:26.005 --> 0:05:27.365 this book because I wish this is the book that 0:05:27.405 --> 0:05:29.285 I wish I had when I wasn't doing very well. 0:05:29.445 --> 0:05:33.645 This is the book you're talking about, So what now? 0:05:33.765 --> 0:05:33.845 What? 0:05:35.125 --> 0:05:40.565 And when I was reading it, which was it's very accessible. 0:05:40.605 --> 0:05:44.165 It's a graphic novel, and I think when I first 0:05:44.285 --> 0:05:47.805 got it this might be a metaphor for you. I 0:05:47.925 --> 0:05:51.045 underestimated what it would contain within do you know what 0:05:51.045 --> 0:05:51.445 I mean? 0:05:51.525 --> 0:05:54.045 Because of the presentation of it seems. 0:05:53.685 --> 0:05:57.285 So I'm all about the trojan horse, all about it. 0:05:57.525 --> 0:05:57.805 You know. 0:05:58.325 --> 0:06:00.765 It's if I can, if I can sneak into the 0:06:00.805 --> 0:06:03.365 machine and disrupt from the inside, then I've done my job. 0:06:03.485 --> 0:06:07.845 And if I can present a set of tools that 0:06:08.245 --> 0:06:11.845 for me were life saving in a way that doesn't 0:06:11.885 --> 0:06:14.365 feel like I'm trying to tell you something, doesn't see 0:06:14.365 --> 0:06:17.365 it feel like I know better than you, or it 0:06:17.405 --> 0:06:21.125 doesn't feel like you're broken, and it's just look, here's 0:06:21.125 --> 0:06:22.725 some stuff. Take it or leave it, it's up to you, 0:06:23.765 --> 0:06:26.205 and then I've done my job right and I worked 0:06:26.285 --> 0:06:29.245 really really hard to hopefully thread that needle. 0:06:29.685 --> 0:06:31.605 What was it If we go back to twenty thirteen 0:06:31.645 --> 0:06:34.405 when you started your podcast and you said you wanted 0:06:35.365 --> 0:06:39.725 somewhere basically to find some tools that would help you 0:06:40.045 --> 0:06:43.125 where you were at that time. Where were you at 0:06:43.125 --> 0:06:45.405 that time that needed that. 0:06:45.765 --> 0:06:51.085 Twenty thirteen, I've been sober for about three years. 0:06:51.365 --> 0:06:53.005 I just got divorced. 0:06:53.245 --> 0:06:58.245 I was out in Los Angeles, paying rent out of 0:06:58.285 --> 0:07:02.365 my savings and kind of starting to maybe get whiffs 0:07:02.405 --> 0:07:05.445 that there might be I was creating TV formats and 0:07:05.485 --> 0:07:07.685 I'm pitching them down in Australia and I was in 0:07:07.725 --> 0:07:10.685 pre production for a TV show when it was a 0:07:10.765 --> 0:07:14.485 dating show, and I was in pre production for this 0:07:14.565 --> 0:07:17.525 dating show, and then the network said, hey, I know 0:07:17.565 --> 0:07:19.445 you're here doing pre production on this dating show, but 0:07:19.725 --> 0:07:20.885 we just put another dating show. 0:07:20.885 --> 0:07:23.325 It's called Bachelor. Would you want to host that? Yes? 0:07:23.405 --> 0:07:23.965 I would. 0:07:25.165 --> 0:07:30.525 So I was out here by myself back in Australia, 0:07:30.765 --> 0:07:33.045 kind of single and sober for the first time, trying 0:07:33.085 --> 0:07:39.525 to figure it out, dealing with degrading like sometimes better 0:07:39.525 --> 0:07:40.885 mental health than I had in a long time, but 0:07:40.925 --> 0:07:43.005 in many ways worse mental health than I had a 0:07:43.005 --> 0:07:46.645 long time, and I wasn't hearing the kind of conversations 0:07:46.685 --> 0:07:49.245 I needed to hear, which was that other people also 0:07:49.325 --> 0:07:52.045 had similar struggles and other people found ways to overcome 0:07:52.085 --> 0:07:56.045 them and just to normalize stuff like not necessarily I 0:07:56.125 --> 0:07:58.205 need to find the answer in this next three minutes 0:07:58.205 --> 0:07:58.765 of audio. 0:07:58.925 --> 0:08:00.445 Just oh yeah, I know that. 0:08:01.205 --> 0:08:04.045 And I do a lot of jobs to keep my 0:08:04.085 --> 0:08:08.045 mortgage paid these days, Kate, it used to be just 0:08:08.045 --> 0:08:12.645 one or two is about thirteen. But there's a through 0:08:12.685 --> 0:08:15.085 line to all of them. And I think the one 0:08:15.165 --> 0:08:18.085 job that I think I do better, that's than everything. 0:08:18.085 --> 0:08:19.525 The one job I do is to I try to 0:08:19.525 --> 0:08:22.485 make people feel less alone. That's my job, okay, And 0:08:22.485 --> 0:08:25.045 that be through a book or a podcast, or whether 0:08:25.045 --> 0:08:27.205 I'm doing a keynote or hosting a TV show. 0:08:27.445 --> 0:08:29.845 Giving a girl a rose, I am. 0:08:30.525 --> 0:08:32.845 I am a one man example of the Mandela effect 0:08:33.485 --> 0:08:38.525 because I've never given anyway. I never a rose once, never, 0:08:38.845 --> 0:08:40.445 not one time, but I ever give a rose. 0:08:40.485 --> 0:08:42.285 But everyone asked me, did you ever give a rose? 0:08:42.325 --> 0:08:42.405 Like? 0:08:42.485 --> 0:08:44.485 No, that is Mandela effect. 0:08:45.365 --> 0:08:47.885 I get to be a I think I always thought 0:08:48.045 --> 0:08:52.125 watching that show well, I wondered how much input you. 0:08:52.005 --> 0:08:52.525 Had to it. 0:08:53.405 --> 0:08:58.565 Thankfully, in later seasons an amount which was more than 0:08:58.645 --> 0:09:01.325 other people would expect from the host of a show. 0:09:01.485 --> 0:09:06.045 They were the production company was very very open to input, 0:09:06.285 --> 0:09:08.805 and we were all creating it together, which I'm very 0:09:08.885 --> 0:09:09.245 very great for. 0:09:09.765 --> 0:09:11.605 You know, you're not the one who drove it off 0:09:11.645 --> 0:09:16.565 the tracks though with the multiple bachelors, because that was 0:09:16.605 --> 0:09:19.405 a shark jumping moment. 0:09:20.285 --> 0:09:21.165 I couldn't keep art. 0:09:21.245 --> 0:09:21.565 I don't know. 0:09:21.605 --> 0:09:25.085 You've been involved in you've been involved in in very 0:09:25.205 --> 0:09:28.805 very highly successful shows, and you've been involved in shows that, 0:09:28.885 --> 0:09:31.085 even though they've been highly successful and you're trying new things, 0:09:31.125 --> 0:09:34.485 sometimes those things don't work and you're doing everything you can, 0:09:34.885 --> 0:09:38.805 and you know, sometimes things change around you. You're doing 0:09:39.085 --> 0:09:41.565 all the stuff you're doing right and it might it 0:09:41.605 --> 0:09:43.045 might not hit, but you've got to take a risk. 0:09:43.245 --> 0:09:43.565 Okay. 0:09:44.045 --> 0:09:46.365 I think there's a lot of factors that went into 0:09:47.245 --> 0:09:49.085 how there's there's always a lot of factors that go 0:09:49.085 --> 0:09:52.045 into how a TV format grows and changes over time. 0:09:52.925 --> 0:09:55.405 Some of those things make that TV format keep going 0:09:55.405 --> 0:09:58.365 and sometimes they don't. But sometimes those things are completely 0:09:58.365 --> 0:10:01.885 iudio control. You know, it could be the license fee 0:10:01.925 --> 0:10:03.845 that they signed with the format owner that makes it 0:10:03.885 --> 0:10:06.045 no longer affordable to make. It's got nothing to do 0:10:06.165 --> 0:10:08.725 with with you. It's show business, not your friends. And 0:10:08.765 --> 0:10:12.045 there may be a business case that doesn't equal the 0:10:12.085 --> 0:10:14.365 production budget and then the show stops going and that's. 0:10:14.205 --> 0:10:18.245 Fine, okay, So on that note, this is an unusual time. 0:10:19.685 --> 0:10:20.805 But in show. 0:10:20.605 --> 0:10:25.085 Bees, which is my bees and your bees, these are 0:10:25.125 --> 0:10:27.805 weird times. And we know that the weird times have 0:10:27.885 --> 0:10:30.325 come and knocking for other people already. Do you know 0:10:30.365 --> 0:10:34.165 what I mean? Like in automation of production or someone 0:10:34.205 --> 0:10:37.525 who was a journalist would know this, But now it's 0:10:37.965 --> 0:10:39.165 knocking on our door. 0:10:39.845 --> 0:10:41.005 How does that feel? 0:10:41.165 --> 0:10:46.125 Because you have been such a big part of Australian television, 0:10:46.565 --> 0:10:50.845 You've been one of the most widely seen hosts across 0:10:50.845 --> 0:10:56.245 a variety of formats, and because you are prone to introspection, 0:10:57.045 --> 0:10:58.605 how do you process that? 0:10:59.765 --> 0:11:02.645 So what you're talking about is that? And I asked 0:11:02.645 --> 0:11:03.325 this this morning. 0:11:03.645 --> 0:11:05.925 We're recording this a day after I was voted off 0:11:06.005 --> 0:11:09.085 the Island of Dancing with the Stuff, and I asked 0:11:09.325 --> 0:11:11.325 the publicist johnno this morning, I said, what were the 0:11:11.365 --> 0:11:15.045 numbers last night? And you know, he said, some numbers whatever, 0:11:15.045 --> 0:11:17.445 they were nine hundred something. I was like, oh, so 0:11:17.605 --> 0:11:19.085 nine is a new one and ones a new two. 0:11:19.645 --> 0:11:23.525 Pretty much. There was a time when you would get 0:11:23.565 --> 0:11:25.285 two million and not even you know, you. 0:11:25.285 --> 0:11:28.645 Get one point five, not even blinked, right, you get 0:11:28.645 --> 0:11:30.645 one point five now like you're taking the. 0:11:30.645 --> 0:11:31.485 Board to lunch. 0:11:32.765 --> 0:11:34.205 Or they're taking you to lunch. 0:11:34.845 --> 0:11:36.765 Yeah, my part. 0:11:37.285 --> 0:11:39.525 I can only control my part in this, Kate, and 0:11:39.605 --> 0:11:43.045 that would be that I was so busy trying to 0:11:43.085 --> 0:11:47.805 be the healthiest. I could be the best husband, I 0:11:47.805 --> 0:11:50.125 could be the best dad stepdad, that I could be 0:11:50.325 --> 0:11:52.165 the best person who does my job. 0:11:52.005 --> 0:11:54.965 That I could be, and trying to be that. 0:11:55.205 --> 0:11:58.245 Not succeeding, but you know, to the level I would 0:11:58.285 --> 0:12:00.125 like to in many of those ways, but doing my 0:12:00.245 --> 0:12:02.325 very best. I was too busy doing that to look 0:12:02.445 --> 0:12:07.805 up and notice things like share prices and ratings and 0:12:08.365 --> 0:12:12.205 viewership across the board and market ad spend and business 0:12:12.205 --> 0:12:15.845 stuff that I have never really needed to pay attention 0:12:15.925 --> 0:12:20.765 to earlier in my career, but lately understood that, oh crikey, 0:12:21.445 --> 0:12:23.565 if the ad revenue is not coming in, then the 0:12:23.565 --> 0:12:26.565 production budget's not justified, and it's got nothing to do 0:12:26.605 --> 0:12:28.685 with the kind of job that I do. I could 0:12:28.725 --> 0:12:30.565 do the best job ever. Both the show's too expensive 0:12:30.605 --> 0:12:33.445 to make, they can't make it, and so that was 0:12:33.485 --> 0:12:35.325 my part. I was too busy making this stuff. And 0:12:35.325 --> 0:12:36.885 then I kind of looked up and realized I was 0:12:36.885 --> 0:12:40.445 the last one left. Other people had seen this coming, 0:12:40.765 --> 0:12:44.165 but I didn't, And that's my responsibility to own. We're 0:12:44.165 --> 0:12:46.605 in a very very interesting time, Don't get me wrong. 0:12:46.645 --> 0:12:48.925 There's more people looking at screens than they've ever looked 0:12:48.925 --> 0:12:52.645 at screens before. Yes, there's more advertising money and visual 0:12:53.005 --> 0:12:55.525 media than there has been in a really, really, really 0:12:55.565 --> 0:12:59.125 long time. It's just not in the business models that 0:12:59.285 --> 0:13:01.365 existed that I came up. 0:13:01.485 --> 0:13:04.005 It's not on the big screen in the living room. 0:13:04.165 --> 0:13:08.605 Well it is, it is, it's just not through the 0:13:08.645 --> 0:13:13.765 previously it inherent owned channels that existed. It's an arm 0:13:13.765 --> 0:13:17.805 wrestle over HDMI one for everyone's living room, okay, and 0:13:18.725 --> 0:13:22.165 most of the time that HDMI one is going to 0:13:22.165 --> 0:13:24.445 be at Apple Box or might be just a smart TV, right, 0:13:25.005 --> 0:13:27.605 and the first button's going to be Netflix, the second 0:13:27.605 --> 0:13:29.845 button's going to be YouTube, or maybe the other way around. 0:13:30.605 --> 0:13:34.725 And way down the end somewhere is Australian freedoware it apps, 0:13:35.125 --> 0:13:40.125 And that's really really difficult for many, many reasons. 0:13:40.165 --> 0:13:42.005 And it's not just from an industry reason. 0:13:42.085 --> 0:13:45.525 When you know, whenever I run into somebody that I've 0:13:45.565 --> 0:13:47.885 worked with, I'm like, oh my god, you're working Stoke 0:13:47.965 --> 0:13:51.765 for you. Okay, it's not just for those reasons. I 0:13:51.805 --> 0:13:55.525 feel that as a country we need to really take 0:13:55.565 --> 0:13:57.565 a long, hard look at ourselves about how much we 0:13:57.685 --> 0:14:01.725 value our culture and what value it is to us 0:14:01.765 --> 0:14:05.005 as a nation to have a cohesive cultural narrative. 0:14:05.405 --> 0:14:08.085 We still have it through sport, which we're lucky. 0:14:08.045 --> 0:14:10.805 Sort of, even though that it's a divide. That's a 0:14:10.885 --> 0:14:11.925 divide as well. 0:14:12.165 --> 0:14:15.845 Yeah, yeah, yeah, we do still like supports so much. 0:14:15.885 --> 0:14:20.205 But it is really really important that A great example 0:14:20.245 --> 0:14:24.325 would be the Coldplay meme. Yeah, okay, that moment where 0:14:24.365 --> 0:14:27.405 everyone knows the thing you're talking about. Yes, that hasn't 0:14:27.405 --> 0:14:31.845 happened in three fucking years, okay, but it used to 0:14:31.885 --> 0:14:36.005 happen every day. Every single day. You would go to 0:14:36.085 --> 0:14:39.365 work and say did you see that? I saw that? 0:14:40.045 --> 0:14:41.765 And everyone knew what you want. 0:14:41.845 --> 0:14:44.925 By the way, in case there's two people that don't know, 0:14:45.125 --> 0:14:48.765 it was the CEO with his head of HR at 0:14:48.805 --> 0:14:51.445 the Cold Blake concert. Who got caught on the jumbo 0:14:51.525 --> 0:14:56.805 tron kissing It was sprang apart so guiltily it was. 0:14:57.485 --> 0:14:59.605 It was okay. 0:15:01.245 --> 0:15:03.605 Chris Martin shitting ingrin really sold it though, it was 0:15:03.685 --> 0:15:05.845 like and even he knew. 0:15:05.765 --> 0:15:08.525 You really needed that on the scene. But this is 0:15:08.565 --> 0:15:09.005 this is the thing. 0:15:09.165 --> 0:15:12.485 We we had this cultural moment that complete strangers were 0:15:12.525 --> 0:15:16.325 able to relate to the same thing and go, yes, 0:15:16.885 --> 0:15:19.045 we both saw this thing, and we both relate to 0:15:19.045 --> 0:15:20.525 this thing, and this gives us a little way point 0:15:20.565 --> 0:15:22.485 for which to navigate the rest of our lives around 0:15:22.925 --> 0:15:24.885 because right now, there used to be four versions of 0:15:24.885 --> 0:15:27.045 the news every night, and that was what the news. 0:15:26.965 --> 0:15:27.605 Was all right. 0:15:27.965 --> 0:15:30.285 Now there's any version of the news that you want, 0:15:30.485 --> 0:15:32.885 and none of it will make you uncomfortable. If you choose, 0:15:33.165 --> 0:15:35.645 you can watch all your news through a lens that 0:15:35.765 --> 0:15:37.725 gives you just what you want to hear about it, 0:15:37.765 --> 0:15:40.245 and not what you don't that makes you feel funny 0:15:40.245 --> 0:15:43.805 in the tummy. It's really important that we see ourselves 0:15:43.845 --> 0:15:46.285 and our stories on screen, and whether it be through 0:15:46.325 --> 0:15:49.085 an unscripted format like a singing show or a cooking 0:15:49.125 --> 0:15:52.725 show or Great Australian Bake Off, which I love, even 0:15:52.765 --> 0:15:54.245 though I can't eat any of it because I'm vegan 0:15:54.325 --> 0:15:55.285 and Celiac, but it's somethink. 0:15:55.285 --> 0:15:57.005 It's a really wholesome show and I really love it. 0:15:57.645 --> 0:16:02.325 Or you know, any kind of nonscripted reality show or drama. 0:16:02.485 --> 0:16:05.205 It's really really important that we see our culture reflected. 0:16:05.565 --> 0:16:07.325 Otherwise we're just going to end up like a weird 0:16:07.365 --> 0:16:12.485 echo of America and the right and because the Australian 0:16:12.525 --> 0:16:17.645 cultural value needs it's the third actor in any scene 0:16:17.685 --> 0:16:21.045 that you ever watch, right, the way that Australians look 0:16:21.045 --> 0:16:23.165 at something. If you look at any American cop show 0:16:23.765 --> 0:16:26.245 or any American show, there's always the idea that someone 0:16:26.325 --> 0:16:28.285 might have a gun and they're not afraid to use it. 0:16:28.805 --> 0:16:30.725 Well, that doesn't happen. So how do we get out 0:16:30.725 --> 0:16:32.525 of a sticky situation here? All Right? 0:16:33.685 --> 0:16:37.085 It's really really important that we value our culture, and 0:16:37.405 --> 0:16:40.525 we value our storytellers, and that we value the people 0:16:40.525 --> 0:16:43.005 that make those stories. We wouldn't let gastroentrologists go out of 0:16:43.005 --> 0:16:45.285 work if we suddenly killed Celiac disease, but we would 0:16:45.325 --> 0:16:47.405 keep them around in case we needed them. But we're 0:16:47.405 --> 0:16:51.245 about to have this gigantic loss of knowledge in our 0:16:51.525 --> 0:16:55.965 storytelling industries, radio, television, film that we're not going to 0:16:55.965 --> 0:16:56.325 get back. 0:16:56.765 --> 0:16:58.685 And that's a really weird place for us to be. 0:16:58.845 --> 0:17:03.285 And I don't think anybody would argue that it's not important. 0:17:03.285 --> 0:17:07.645 And when I say anybody, I mean people. People know 0:17:07.765 --> 0:17:09.925 that's important. People know what they value. 0:17:10.165 --> 0:17:12.565 There was a thing that used to happen where we 0:17:12.685 --> 0:17:15.725 had local content rules. Having worked in radio, you would 0:17:15.805 --> 0:17:19.085 understand why you would have Australian artist on radio because 0:17:19.125 --> 0:17:21.845 there was a mandate if you had a broadcast license 0:17:21.845 --> 0:17:23.845 you needed to play a certain percentage of Australian music. 0:17:23.965 --> 0:17:27.005 Right that also exists with free toware broadcasters. You have 0:17:27.005 --> 0:17:29.005 to have a certain percentage of Australian content that does 0:17:29.005 --> 0:17:33.005 not exist for the streamers. Okay, And we talk a 0:17:33.005 --> 0:17:36.805 lot about tariffs or subsidies and such like this. We'll 0:17:36.805 --> 0:17:39.605 subsidize fossil fuel in our country up the freakin' wa Zoo. 0:17:39.885 --> 0:17:43.045 We will give overseas companies billions of dollars of our 0:17:43.085 --> 0:17:47.125 sovereign wealth for no tax whatsoever. We're not protecting our 0:17:47.165 --> 0:17:50.925 culture and protecting the stories that make us Australian. By 0:17:51.045 --> 0:17:53.965 protecting our storytelling industries, we don't will high vis so 0:17:54.005 --> 0:17:56.885 we don't matter and that sucks. But when it's gone, 0:17:57.285 --> 0:17:58.485 we're not going to be able to get it back. 0:17:58.565 --> 0:18:01.045 And then we become this, like I said, we've become 0:18:01.325 --> 0:18:05.485 this weird rhyming slang of you know, either an American 0:18:05.565 --> 0:18:07.325 or a British view on things, and it's really weird. 0:18:07.525 --> 0:18:12.045 So Ashualy, you know, you referred to having several jobs 0:18:12.085 --> 0:18:15.565 now to pay your mortgage thirteen and I think you 0:18:15.605 --> 0:18:17.965 said now whereas once it only took one or two. 0:18:19.405 --> 0:18:23.045 Not literal, but your point is a valid one you 0:18:23.125 --> 0:18:27.125 must encounter all the time, the assumption that because you 0:18:27.245 --> 0:18:32.925 work in such a public facing role that you are 0:18:34.445 --> 0:18:36.285 cashed up to the moon and back. 0:18:37.245 --> 0:18:40.405 I'm the same as anybody, right, I know we're supposed 0:18:40.405 --> 0:18:44.885 to live within our means. But like anyone, you get 0:18:44.965 --> 0:18:48.525 the mortgage that you think, yeah, we can do that. 0:18:49.605 --> 0:18:52.325 I don't you want job you're in, that's what you do, 0:18:52.845 --> 0:18:56.965 and you just back yourself. Yep, thirty years, let's go, 0:18:57.485 --> 0:18:59.605 otherwise you'll never leave the rental. 0:19:00.005 --> 0:19:04.245 And by the way, everyone's mortgage in Australia now is 0:19:05.485 --> 0:19:06.485 eye watering. 0:19:06.525 --> 0:19:07.085 Everybody. 0:19:07.485 --> 0:19:09.525 I don't care who you are, all right, you got 0:19:09.525 --> 0:19:12.405 the mortgage that you breathed in through your teeth, and 0:19:12.605 --> 0:19:12.965 it might. 0:19:12.885 --> 0:19:15.605 Be caravan parks for wild kids, and you know when. 0:19:15.445 --> 0:19:19.085 It comes to holidays, but you hit go and and 0:19:19.245 --> 0:19:22.565 our situation is the same. You know, you you live, 0:19:22.685 --> 0:19:26.845 you build a life, you know within, you build a 0:19:26.925 --> 0:19:32.005 life that is in response to the work that you're doing. 0:19:32.885 --> 0:19:36.085 And certainly once kids show up, you know, you get 0:19:36.085 --> 0:19:38.645 into schools and you start doing all kinds of things, 0:19:38.645 --> 0:19:41.245 and those expenses don't just go away. I had four 0:19:41.285 --> 0:19:44.925 primetime TV shows on the mortgage form. None of those 0:19:46.285 --> 0:19:46.965 I was going to show. 0:19:46.965 --> 0:19:49.285 I hope that's not the time that you actually got 0:19:49.285 --> 0:19:51.045 your mortgage, but it is. 0:19:51.885 --> 0:19:55.125 It was, and none of those shows exist now. But 0:19:55.245 --> 0:19:58.565 we're still here because I have had to be very 0:19:58.605 --> 0:20:01.205 innovative about what you said, I'm trying to do here. 0:20:01.725 --> 0:20:05.165 It's the same dance at anyone plays. And you know, 0:20:05.685 --> 0:20:07.445 whether we get to stay here or not, I don't know. 0:20:07.485 --> 0:20:10.725 But look the days of oh, you've got our job 0:20:10.805 --> 0:20:13.565 in television, so now you are set for life that 0:20:13.845 --> 0:20:14.245 have not. 0:20:14.325 --> 0:20:15.685 Existed since the eighties. 0:20:15.725 --> 0:20:20.365 Man, like pre GFC TV money, I saw the like 0:20:20.765 --> 0:20:22.605 a glimpse of the back end of it, But that 0:20:22.685 --> 0:20:23.845 stuff doesn't yest. 0:20:24.045 --> 0:20:28.405 Not in Australia, no way. Man. Nah. There's people who 0:20:28.485 --> 0:20:30.485 don't work anywhere near broadcast. 0:20:30.005 --> 0:20:33.685 TV that make way more money using their freaking phone. 0:20:34.285 --> 0:20:37.125 This is very interesting because it's interesting kind. 0:20:37.045 --> 0:20:40.485 Of on a macro and a micro level, or you know, 0:20:41.645 --> 0:20:43.645 on a more personal level. 0:20:44.045 --> 0:20:46.005 What does it mean for you? 0:20:46.445 --> 0:20:50.685 Like, how do you feel about Really, you've been on 0:20:50.725 --> 0:20:54.205 our screens for I'm going to say twenty years longer. 0:20:54.085 --> 0:20:57.365 Probably started in ninety nine, Yeah, so. 0:20:57.485 --> 0:20:58.645 Twenty six years. 0:20:59.165 --> 0:21:04.085 What does it feel like for you when you realize, 0:21:04.725 --> 0:21:07.165 like you said that this was you with a frog 0:21:07.205 --> 0:21:09.445 in the boiling water, not really realizing what was going 0:21:09.445 --> 0:21:12.605 on around you. But like you said, you've got a 0:21:12.605 --> 0:21:15.285 mortgage to pay, and you've got a wife, and you've 0:21:15.325 --> 0:21:18.525 got a kid, you've got to a step daughter, and 0:21:18.925 --> 0:21:20.165 you've got a life to live. 0:21:20.325 --> 0:21:21.885 How does that feel? 0:21:22.285 --> 0:21:25.525 I mean, like, I mean, I'm not special. 0:21:26.005 --> 0:21:28.525 I'm not the only fifty something year old guy that's 0:21:28.525 --> 0:21:31.605 found themselves at the wrong end of a you know, 0:21:32.045 --> 0:21:35.965 a shrinkage in a market or a technological iteration. You know, 0:21:36.045 --> 0:21:39.725 this happens in many, many, many industries. As we mentioned, 0:21:39.765 --> 0:21:41.245 I just get to do it public a little more 0:21:41.245 --> 0:21:46.285 publicly than others. And you know, in many ways, it's 0:21:46.405 --> 0:21:47.965 what the book is about. 0:21:48.085 --> 0:21:50.445 It's you know, four wonderful words. So what now? 0:21:50.485 --> 0:21:53.805 What Am I going to be upset about it? Or 0:21:54.485 --> 0:21:56.885 am I going to do something about it? Because I 0:21:56.925 --> 0:21:58.525 can be upset about it, but all that's going to 0:21:58.525 --> 0:22:00.245 happen is I'll just stay upset about it and nothing 0:22:00.245 --> 0:22:02.405 will happen and it'll just get worse. Or I could 0:22:02.445 --> 0:22:06.965 do something about it, and being in action will get 0:22:07.005 --> 0:22:09.725 me as long as I'm in moving towards what I value, 0:22:09.725 --> 0:22:11.645 which is looking after my family and try to connect 0:22:11.685 --> 0:22:13.525 with people and try to make people feel less alone. 0:22:14.085 --> 0:22:17.445 Being an action will feel better, even if it's not 0:22:17.445 --> 0:22:18.445 bringing money in the door. 0:22:19.245 --> 0:22:21.325 Being an action will feel better than doing nothing. 0:22:21.765 --> 0:22:24.805 And it is through that action that the clues and 0:22:24.845 --> 0:22:28.285 the spontaneity and the serendipity that bring the next opportunity. 0:22:27.725 --> 0:22:30.725 A right, So the so what now? 0:22:30.845 --> 0:22:35.125 What is based on a certain type of therapy? You 0:22:35.165 --> 0:22:38.125 know a lot about therapy? Can you tell me what 0:22:38.165 --> 0:22:39.925 types of therapy you know about? 0:22:40.725 --> 0:22:45.045 Oh? Well, look, it's different courses for different horses. 0:22:45.125 --> 0:22:48.045 Okay, If horse rest is your thing, it's not really mine. 0:22:48.085 --> 0:22:50.485 But you know, you can go to a physio for 0:22:50.525 --> 0:22:52.925 some things, you go to a chiropractor for others. All right, 0:22:53.045 --> 0:22:55.925 there's the same people they put their elbows in your back, 0:22:55.965 --> 0:22:58.645 but they do different things. Similarly, there's different kinds of 0:22:58.645 --> 0:23:04.445 therapists for different kinds of situations, and therapy is something 0:23:04.485 --> 0:23:06.525 that you can go to for a while and then 0:23:06.605 --> 0:23:09.765 you get us at tools and the kind of hold 0:23:09.805 --> 0:23:11.325 your hand for a bit and then they kind of 0:23:11.525 --> 0:23:12.805 patch you on the bum and send you off into 0:23:12.805 --> 0:23:14.845 the world. And with that set of tools, you've now 0:23:14.925 --> 0:23:16.685 been able to expand your universe and have a bit 0:23:16.685 --> 0:23:19.485 more possibility. But then might happen is now you're in 0:23:19.525 --> 0:23:20.925 this new world and you can do things. You might 0:23:20.925 --> 0:23:22.645 get an new job or a new partner, or have 0:23:22.725 --> 0:23:25.805 a kid, or change jobs or move state. And now 0:23:25.805 --> 0:23:27.285 you've got a bit more stress in your life. Oh 0:23:27.405 --> 0:23:29.405 now I don't have enough skills. I better go back 0:23:29.445 --> 0:23:30.965 and grab a few more tools so I can get 0:23:30.965 --> 0:23:34.205 through this next bit. And so that's basically what I've done, 0:23:34.205 --> 0:23:37.205 because I know when I'm outgunned, and I know when 0:23:37.245 --> 0:23:39.805 I need ideas that aren't mine to get me out 0:23:39.805 --> 0:23:43.085 of the woods. And I think The first bunch of 0:23:43.125 --> 0:23:46.485 therapy I learned was cognitive behavioral therapy. It's called CBT. 0:23:46.565 --> 0:23:49.885 But don't google that because you will not find behavioral therapy. 0:23:50.285 --> 0:23:51.485 Oh no, no no. 0:23:52.765 --> 0:23:55.165 And that's a broadly kind of available It's got its 0:23:55.245 --> 0:23:59.005 ups and downs, you know, but a broadly available, self 0:23:59.045 --> 0:24:02.445 administered kind of thing, and it's really really powerful stuff. 0:24:03.005 --> 0:24:04.365 You've got to work at it, though, you've got to 0:24:04.445 --> 0:24:04.805 use it. 0:24:04.965 --> 0:24:06.965 Is that a one on one thing? So you go 0:24:07.045 --> 0:24:10.165 to the cognitive behavior therapists? 0:24:10.245 --> 0:24:11.845 Oh yeah, they teach you how to do it. 0:24:12.165 --> 0:24:14.005 They teach you how to do it, but it's very 0:24:14.045 --> 0:24:19.525 much learning how to observe your thoughts and feelings, understand 0:24:19.605 --> 0:24:24.085 that they might not necessarily be right. Understand that there's 0:24:24.125 --> 0:24:27.205 a common set of distortions that our brains can do, 0:24:27.565 --> 0:24:30.525 like black or white thinking, or predicting the future, or 0:24:30.765 --> 0:24:36.205 catastrophizing or magnifying or diminishing and go hang on any 0:24:36.245 --> 0:24:38.125 of those things, going on, Oh yeah they are. Okay, 0:24:38.125 --> 0:24:39.445 what's a different thought I might be able to have 0:24:39.485 --> 0:24:39.925 about this? 0:24:40.525 --> 0:24:42.805 Oh? I could think about it in this way? 0:24:42.845 --> 0:24:46.325 Okay, great, let's try that, and then just taking the 0:24:46.445 --> 0:24:50.485 breath and going all right, like it could mean like 0:24:51.125 --> 0:24:54.485 the day that I lost two jobs in one day, 0:24:55.165 --> 0:24:57.005 the ones that how I ended up like no job, 0:24:57.605 --> 0:25:01.245 out of money, out of work, living in America, and 0:25:01.485 --> 0:25:04.165 my man, David, he says to me, I'm excited for you, pal. 0:25:04.405 --> 0:25:06.205 It means that universe have got bigger plans for you. 0:25:06.365 --> 0:25:08.085 I said, I don't believe you, man, you didn't hear me. 0:25:08.085 --> 0:25:09.845 I just said I lost both my last one day 0:25:09.845 --> 0:25:12.365 and I have no job. I don't believe you heard me. 0:25:12.885 --> 0:25:17.085 I'm excited for you. The universe has bigger plans for you. Now, 0:25:17.165 --> 0:25:20.005 I'm not really a believer in the universe gives me 0:25:20.045 --> 0:25:21.485 what I ask for kind of thing. But what he 0:25:21.525 --> 0:25:23.325 was trying to tell me was you can look at 0:25:23.365 --> 0:25:26.965 it like everything sucks and my life is terrible, or 0:25:27.005 --> 0:25:29.245 you can look at it as okay, now I can 0:25:29.245 --> 0:25:30.285 make anything happen here. 0:25:30.925 --> 0:25:33.085 Both those things can be true. We get to choose 0:25:33.125 --> 0:25:33.525 which one. 0:25:33.605 --> 0:25:36.245 And that's kind of what the cognitive behavioral therapy thing, right, 0:25:37.245 --> 0:25:38.925 Acceptance commitment therapy is. 0:25:38.965 --> 0:25:40.525 This is this so what? 0:25:41.445 --> 0:25:41.685 Yeah? 0:25:41.765 --> 0:25:42.165 Now what? 0:25:42.765 --> 0:25:45.005 Yah? So yeah, that's yeah, we worked. 0:25:45.285 --> 0:25:47.925 Accept As commitment therapy is it does what it says 0:25:47.965 --> 0:25:51.845 on the tin, right, and it is accepting the thing 0:25:51.925 --> 0:25:54.885 you can't control, and then action in accordance with your values. 0:25:55.045 --> 0:25:57.925 I'm not alone in this, but about I don't know, 0:25:58.045 --> 0:26:00.365 eight weeks or ten weeks before Wolfgang was born. 0:26:00.165 --> 0:26:01.485 I was doing really well. 0:26:01.525 --> 0:26:03.925 I was off meds for the first time in a 0:26:03.925 --> 0:26:08.085 long time, fantastic, life is going really well. That it 0:26:08.125 --> 0:26:09.685 was getting worse and I didn't want to I would 0:26:09.685 --> 0:26:12.685 admit it, and it was getting worse. And then we 0:26:12.685 --> 0:26:15.805 were on We had a weekend away with g and 0:26:15.845 --> 0:26:17.285 it was like the last week that we could fly 0:26:17.365 --> 0:26:20.965 before Audrey was like too pregnant to fly. And she 0:26:21.045 --> 0:26:22.485 just took one look at me and says, I need 0:26:22.525 --> 0:26:24.325 you to go back to you psychiatrist, get back on meds. 0:26:24.325 --> 0:26:27.365 You've got to be around because you're getting bad. And 0:26:27.405 --> 0:26:30.405 I knew enough to know, right I got to I 0:26:30.405 --> 0:26:31.885 don't know it when I'm in it. And if she's 0:26:31.925 --> 0:26:33.685 telling me, I need to go see my doctor, see 0:26:33.685 --> 0:26:35.405 my doctor. So I emailed him and he sent me 0:26:35.445 --> 0:26:35.925 a script. 0:26:36.045 --> 0:26:39.325 What could Audrey see that you couldn't see yourself because 0:26:39.405 --> 0:26:41.405 you were immersed? Like, how did it manifest? 0:26:42.085 --> 0:26:42.325 Oh? 0:26:43.325 --> 0:26:47.205 Very rigid thinking, inability to change plans, in ability to 0:26:47.565 --> 0:26:49.285 not do the thing that we talked about we were 0:26:49.285 --> 0:26:50.845 going to do this morning. Now we're doing something else, 0:26:50.885 --> 0:26:52.805 and just like it, being in a like unable to 0:26:52.845 --> 0:26:57.805 cope with it short of temper, snappy, cranky, that kind 0:26:57.845 --> 0:27:01.005 of stuff. But the rigid thinking is the and being 0:27:01.365 --> 0:27:04.925 being a bit lost my brain getting very very full 0:27:05.085 --> 0:27:08.805 with the noise of the scaries. That kind of takes 0:27:08.805 --> 0:27:10.205 me a bit out at the moment. I kind of 0:27:10.405 --> 0:27:12.445 get this, I'm not here look in my eye because 0:27:12.485 --> 0:27:16.925 I'm busy tending to trying to put out the fires 0:27:17.125 --> 0:27:20.525 in my head. And so I got back on the 0:27:20.565 --> 0:27:22.605 meds and I was doing it. I was trying really hard, 0:27:22.605 --> 0:27:24.845 but it wasn't getting better. And I was like, fucking hell, 0:27:24.885 --> 0:27:26.965 I'm going to end up on anti psychotics again, because 0:27:26.965 --> 0:27:29.405 I was on two kinds of anti psychotics and a 0:27:29.445 --> 0:27:31.085 bunch of other heavy meds because. 0:27:31.125 --> 0:27:32.125 I got really, really sick. 0:27:32.725 --> 0:27:34.045 And I'm like, I didn't want to get back on 0:27:34.045 --> 0:27:36.005 those meds because they're great because you're not crazy, but 0:27:36.685 --> 0:27:38.365 you put a lot of weight because they messed with 0:27:38.405 --> 0:27:41.725 your instulin response and your testosterone goes out the window 0:27:41.845 --> 0:27:44.285 and the world feels like blue tag But it's nice 0:27:44.365 --> 0:27:46.645 because you're not dealing with suicidal idiation all day. But 0:27:47.805 --> 0:27:50.885 after a while it gets a bit like is this it? 0:27:51.245 --> 0:27:54.445 So I went and found someone here in Sydney and 0:27:54.725 --> 0:27:58.885 we started talking and lo and behold, she was the 0:27:58.885 --> 0:28:02.205 one that helped me go through all the exposure, therapy, 0:28:02.605 --> 0:28:03.925 all the you know. 0:28:04.325 --> 0:28:05.045 All that kind of stuff. 0:28:05.045 --> 0:28:08.085 It's teaching me the skill set to be with the 0:28:08.205 --> 0:28:12.085 uncomfortable thoughts feelings, making space for those uncomfortable thoughts and 0:28:12.125 --> 0:28:15.485 feelings and knowing that I can hold them in one hand, 0:28:15.605 --> 0:28:18.125 and also be with the joy and giggling of my 0:28:18.245 --> 0:28:21.525 son seeing rainbow lorikeet for the first time, and be 0:28:21.565 --> 0:28:24.405 able to hold both of those things because what was 0:28:24.405 --> 0:28:25.925 happening is my brain was just so full of the 0:28:25.965 --> 0:28:29.165 negative I couldn't feel the good stuff. We have the 0:28:29.205 --> 0:28:33.125 capacity to hold joy and sadness at the same time, 0:28:33.245 --> 0:28:35.885 we have enough room to do it, but we brain 0:28:35.925 --> 0:28:38.445 can get tripped to think, oh, it's bad, so everything's 0:28:38.485 --> 0:28:39.045 got to be bad. 0:28:42.525 --> 0:28:45.965 Coming up after the break, Asher shares why being a 0:28:46.085 --> 0:28:55.925 step parent is harder than being a parent. This is 0:28:57.245 --> 0:29:02.525 very interesting who I constantly think about now when I 0:29:02.605 --> 0:29:04.045 hear you do all of this. 0:29:04.325 --> 0:29:07.925 To explain all of this and the journey zeh is 0:29:08.005 --> 0:29:09.085 audrey O wife. 0:29:09.125 --> 0:29:12.285 Yeah, yes, because it's one thing to be the person 0:29:12.325 --> 0:29:16.965 who's putting the pieces in the puzzle of yourself, and 0:29:17.005 --> 0:29:20.125 it's another thing to be the person who loves the 0:29:20.165 --> 0:29:26.485 person who's constantly putting pieces and analyzing pieces and trying 0:29:26.485 --> 0:29:30.365 to find how to make the picture complete or whatever, 0:29:31.005 --> 0:29:34.405 like that's an amazing thing. She fell in love with you. 0:29:36.085 --> 0:29:40.845 Did you explain to her how complex you were? 0:29:42.925 --> 0:29:47.925 I let her know her like the moment that it 0:29:48.005 --> 0:29:52.805 had the hint of becoming romantic. I told her, Look, 0:29:52.845 --> 0:29:55.325 I'm on a lot of anti psychotics and you know, 0:29:55.765 --> 0:29:59.725 some SSRIs and nsros, so you know, if there's a 0:29:59.845 --> 0:30:03.565 muted response, that's what's going on. So she knew from 0:30:03.565 --> 0:30:06.845 the start, all right, But it is it is not easy. 0:30:07.365 --> 0:30:10.125 It is not easy to be with someone who's trying 0:30:10.125 --> 0:30:13.925 their best to trying to use the brain they've got 0:30:14.005 --> 0:30:15.805 to live with the brain they've got. 0:30:16.325 --> 0:30:17.245 It's really hard. 0:30:17.285 --> 0:30:19.525 Because you mentioned the puzzle analogy, like a lot of 0:30:19.525 --> 0:30:22.965 the time, a lot of the time, the big problems are, oh, 0:30:23.125 --> 0:30:26.125 that's the answer, and then you know, charging at it 0:30:26.205 --> 0:30:29.285 and then flipping the whole puzzle table upside down and 0:30:29.325 --> 0:30:31.325 then having to start again and all you were trying 0:30:31.365 --> 0:30:35.165 to do is make it better. And it sucks, man, 0:30:35.365 --> 0:30:40.685 It sucks to know that sometimes I cause pain. 0:30:40.645 --> 0:30:43.445 To you know, my wife and my family. 0:30:44.765 --> 0:30:49.765 Because of a physiological thing that's going on between my ears. 0:30:49.965 --> 0:30:52.805 But being aware of it is all I can do, 0:30:52.925 --> 0:30:54.885 and taking action about it is all I can do. 0:30:55.685 --> 0:30:59.125 How old was Georgia when you and Audrey got together? 0:31:00.525 --> 0:31:01.085 She was ten? 0:31:01.725 --> 0:31:06.485 Ah? Interesting? Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's an amazing time to 0:31:07.125 --> 0:31:10.245 enter a girl's life. Important. 0:31:11.485 --> 0:31:15.805 Yes, yes, step fatherhood is I'm gonna I'm there's step 0:31:15.805 --> 0:31:18.245 parenting and then there's parenting, and I do both, Kate, 0:31:18.285 --> 0:31:20.085 and I'm here to tell you step parenting is harder. 0:31:20.805 --> 0:31:23.565 Yeah, right, And why is that? 0:31:24.485 --> 0:31:28.885 Because you love the kid just as much, you dedicate 0:31:28.925 --> 0:31:30.685 your life to them just as much. 0:31:30.885 --> 0:31:36.245 And because her dad's amazing. He's an amazing guy. I 0:31:36.325 --> 0:31:36.725 love him. 0:31:36.765 --> 0:31:40.725 He's a great dude, and he's her dad. And I'm 0:31:40.765 --> 0:31:43.965 never going to be there, all right, And I never 0:31:44.045 --> 0:31:46.645 wanted to. I'm never going to and I never tried 0:31:46.685 --> 0:31:50.605 to be Okay, though, there is a like this this 0:31:50.645 --> 0:31:53.325 thing inside you that's like, oh there's a bit missing, 0:31:53.845 --> 0:32:01.245 all right, and it's tough. It's really tough. It's really tough, 0:32:01.325 --> 0:32:03.285 but it doesn't stop the reason that you want to 0:32:03.325 --> 0:32:03.965 do it right. 0:32:04.085 --> 0:32:06.965 Okay, can I ask this? Did you have therapy for 0:32:07.085 --> 0:32:08.605 being a step parent? 0:32:09.365 --> 0:32:13.525 Oh? Fuck, yeah, absolutely, yeah, so I was. That's the 0:32:13.645 --> 0:32:16.565 trickiest part about being a stepparent is you are thrown 0:32:16.645 --> 0:32:20.325 into this job without any of the training. 0:32:21.285 --> 0:32:23.965 Babies a great because it's the same thing. 0:32:23.885 --> 0:32:26.645 Every two hours for about three months if you're lucky, 0:32:27.285 --> 0:32:29.285 and then slowly, over time you figure it out and 0:32:29.285 --> 0:32:31.365 they're usually too little to notice when you've really fucked 0:32:31.365 --> 0:32:34.405 it up. And you know, Maggie didn't said thirty percents 0:32:34.445 --> 0:32:37.485 good enough, so I just aim for that, and so 0:32:37.525 --> 0:32:38.685 you learn over time. 0:32:38.525 --> 0:32:39.365 How to deal with it. 0:32:40.525 --> 0:32:43.125 And then I'm thrown into We moved in together when 0:32:43.205 --> 0:32:45.925 she was eleven, so I've an eleven year old with 0:32:46.005 --> 0:32:48.845 like about six weeks of parenting experience, and I made 0:32:48.885 --> 0:32:50.965 a lot of mistakes I wish I didn't make, but 0:32:51.005 --> 0:32:53.565 I was doing the best I could with what I had, 0:32:53.845 --> 0:32:58.125 and Audrey brilliantly recognized that we were going in a 0:32:58.285 --> 0:33:00.925 not a great direction and a man, I love the 0:33:00.925 --> 0:33:03.285 Australian healthcare system. I lived in America for ten years, 0:33:03.325 --> 0:33:07.085 where universal kid does not exist. She reached out to 0:33:07.085 --> 0:33:09.325 the children's hospital near US. They had a brilliant out 0:33:09.365 --> 0:33:13.805 patient unit and one specifically designed for blended families coming together. 0:33:14.085 --> 0:33:16.765 And it was magnificent. It was magnificent. 0:33:17.365 --> 0:33:20.165 I think she saw g I think once or twice, 0:33:20.205 --> 0:33:21.325 I don't know. But the rest of the time was 0:33:21.405 --> 0:33:22.445 me and Audrey and. 0:33:22.405 --> 0:33:25.205 What did you learn about yourself? 0:33:25.205 --> 0:33:28.165 Because I think one of the things about being a 0:33:28.245 --> 0:33:31.365 parent or being in a parental role is it's really 0:33:31.645 --> 0:33:33.605 illuminating about yourself. 0:33:35.325 --> 0:33:38.005 Oh my god, it's the best and worst thing about 0:33:38.005 --> 0:33:41.925 having kids is they don't do what you tell them. 0:33:41.925 --> 0:33:43.205 But I'll do everything you show them. 0:33:43.765 --> 0:33:45.165 That's so true. 0:33:46.325 --> 0:33:47.005 It is right. 0:33:47.205 --> 0:33:49.405 You start to hear them saying, feel like, she's why 0:33:49.405 --> 0:33:51.525 does that piss me? Do it? 0:33:51.605 --> 0:33:52.365 Where did you learn it? 0:33:52.405 --> 0:33:52.605 Fuck? 0:33:52.645 --> 0:33:54.165 You learn it from me and I learned it from 0:33:54.165 --> 0:33:58.685 my dad. Fuck it's on me. I have to stop this. 0:33:59.725 --> 0:34:01.885 So back to Audrey. 0:34:02.125 --> 0:34:07.525 When the role that someone plays when they love someone 0:34:07.565 --> 0:34:14.565 anyway is in an any successful relationship of supporting role. 0:34:15.205 --> 0:34:17.005 I don't mean a lesser role, but I mean literally 0:34:17.045 --> 0:34:17.765 one of support. 0:34:18.285 --> 0:34:22.125 But then how do you when you have so much. 0:34:23.565 --> 0:34:27.605 Consuming you and the work of life and working out 0:34:27.645 --> 0:34:33.765 your life, taking such a big chunk of you to 0:34:33.925 --> 0:34:38.765 navigate things. How do you make sure that as your wife, 0:34:39.525 --> 0:34:42.565 she's represented on the ledger? 0:34:43.165 --> 0:34:48.005 Do you know what I mean? Well, because because she takes. 0:34:49.645 --> 0:34:52.565 You have to take such good care of you, careful 0:34:52.605 --> 0:34:56.405 care of you, and she's also taking care of you, 0:34:58.405 --> 0:35:00.205 how are you taking care of her? 0:35:02.925 --> 0:35:05.205 Oh? This is the balance that any person in a 0:35:05.245 --> 0:35:10.965 relationship has to face. In it there's the work life balance. 0:35:11.645 --> 0:35:14.765 But if you're also dealing with something else, I don't know, 0:35:14.765 --> 0:35:19.365 if you're managing type one diabetes or whatever, like, you've 0:35:19.405 --> 0:35:21.365 got to figure it out and you've got to put 0:35:21.365 --> 0:35:24.805 systems in place. Okay, Yeah, And that's that's the way 0:35:24.885 --> 0:35:27.805 that I try. I try to get around it, Like 0:35:27.885 --> 0:35:31.565 I don't. I have varying degrees of success in this, 0:35:32.205 --> 0:35:34.765 and sometimes I think I'm doing a great job and 0:35:34.765 --> 0:35:38.525 I'm doing a terrible job. Sometimes I think I really 0:35:38.525 --> 0:35:41.405 need to do more around here, and she's fine. More 0:35:41.405 --> 0:35:43.365 around here is in like you know, as in connecting 0:35:43.525 --> 0:35:49.845 with youths. Fine, But there's also the reality of you know, 0:35:49.925 --> 0:35:55.045 there's the first kracky pretty much until they're teenagers that 0:35:55.085 --> 0:35:58.485 are out with their friends a bit, the relationship that 0:35:58.525 --> 0:36:01.325 you have, the intimate relationship you have at home with 0:36:01.605 --> 0:36:04.645 you know, your personal parenting your kids with is. 0:36:04.605 --> 0:36:06.325 Going to be affected. I don't care who you are. 0:36:06.605 --> 0:36:08.965 There isn't enough bandwidth to do all of it, and 0:36:09.005 --> 0:36:12.405 you're just going to have to find, you know, often 0:36:13.085 --> 0:36:14.565 the kids are going to win. They're going to win, 0:36:15.125 --> 0:36:18.445 all right, and you've got to be okay with with that. 0:36:19.125 --> 0:36:21.045 And it's it's hard. I'm not saying he's got to 0:36:21.045 --> 0:36:22.445 be okay with me being a ship husband. 0:36:22.885 --> 0:36:25.965 I'm just saying that there is an element of that 0:36:25.965 --> 0:36:28.765 that everybody deals with. But then there's the added element 0:36:28.805 --> 0:36:30.565 that Audrey has to deal with where. 0:36:30.325 --> 0:36:32.125 I, you know, part of the brain. 0:36:32.605 --> 0:36:35.125 When I first got diagnosed my my doctor, you know, 0:36:35.165 --> 0:36:37.045 I was like, oh my god, I got what he goes, Well, 0:36:37.045 --> 0:36:38.325 what do you think you've got? The career you've got? 0:36:38.445 --> 0:36:40.125 Come on, man, all right? 0:36:40.605 --> 0:36:45.645 So what was that diagnosis by? What was the first diagnosis? 0:36:47.245 --> 0:36:47.965 Wasn't the PTSD? 0:36:48.085 --> 0:36:49.765 Is when he when we started exploring o c D, 0:36:49.885 --> 0:36:51.925 when we started exploring obsessive compulsive disorder. 0:36:52.285 --> 0:36:54.645 There's a collective a few letters. 0:36:57.445 --> 0:37:00.285 Some of which I've spoken about so which I'll speak 0:37:00.325 --> 0:37:03.445 about in good time, but he helped me understand, like, well, 0:37:03.445 --> 0:37:05.285 of course this is why you've got the life you've got, 0:37:05.405 --> 0:37:08.605 because you've got this brain that your job now is 0:37:08.645 --> 0:37:10.845 you need to take respond it's ability for it. And 0:37:11.485 --> 0:37:14.005 you know, sometimes I can get I can get very 0:37:14.085 --> 0:37:18.245 very focused, possibly too focused on things, and just forget, 0:37:19.165 --> 0:37:22.325 not even forget. It's not even forget implies that it's 0:37:22.325 --> 0:37:25.525 not important. My psychiatrist told me that I've got two 0:37:25.525 --> 0:37:28.365 time zones. I've got now and not now, And sometimes 0:37:28.445 --> 0:37:31.085 when I'm in the now part, it's as if the 0:37:31.165 --> 0:37:34.485 not now doesn't exist. But then when I'm in the 0:37:34.525 --> 0:37:37.845 knot now, which is now now, I think, why the 0:37:37.885 --> 0:37:40.885 fuck didn't I do something about this? And now I 0:37:40.925 --> 0:37:45.765 am facing the consequences of my inability to act when 0:37:45.805 --> 0:37:50.165 I was back there in the now part, and that's very, 0:37:50.245 --> 0:37:52.845 very hard, and trying to create systems that bridge those 0:37:52.845 --> 0:37:57.845 two time zones has it's an ongoing challenge, and I 0:37:57.885 --> 0:38:01.245 am I'm still trying to figure out how how to. 0:38:01.125 --> 0:38:03.525 Do it best. What he puts up with a lot 0:38:04.085 --> 0:38:04.845 she really does. 0:38:08.765 --> 0:38:12.685 That's not all to my conversation with Osha after this break. 0:38:13.285 --> 0:38:26.845 He explains how his wife, Audrey, has saved him. If 0:38:26.885 --> 0:38:34.245 you had not embarked on the discovery via your various 0:38:34.285 --> 0:38:37.765 forms of therapy, or your veganism or your giving up 0:38:37.805 --> 0:38:43.725 alcohol or whatever, where do you think you would be now? 0:38:44.125 --> 0:38:45.325 And who would you be? 0:38:46.245 --> 0:38:46.445 Oh? 0:38:46.565 --> 0:38:49.445 I would be dead, There's no question, no question. Yeah, 0:38:49.485 --> 0:38:52.045 I wouldn't be alive. There's absolutely no question, no question 0:38:52.125 --> 0:38:54.205 at all. The horror that I was living with forget 0:38:54.245 --> 0:38:58.485 about it, absolutely forget about it. But I got really, 0:38:58.525 --> 0:39:01.925 really lucky because I knew something was wrong. I got 0:39:02.045 --> 0:39:05.005 very lucky that not only did I realize something wasn't right, 0:39:05.245 --> 0:39:08.245 I also got very lucky in that I knew there 0:39:08.325 --> 0:39:10.805 had to be more to life than this. I did 0:39:10.805 --> 0:39:12.725 not get born to wake up every day to be 0:39:12.765 --> 0:39:15.845 in this level of pain and anxiety. This is not 0:39:15.845 --> 0:39:18.165 what I was born for. There is more than this. 0:39:19.045 --> 0:39:21.765 It cannot end with this. Cant this cannot be this 0:39:21.805 --> 0:39:23.925 for the next fifty years of my life. It has 0:39:24.005 --> 0:39:28.485 to get better. And I thankfully I have this brain 0:39:28.525 --> 0:39:30.405 that once I said it on course, it just goes. 0:39:31.085 --> 0:39:32.845 I got lucky and I was able to set my 0:39:32.845 --> 0:39:36.285 brain on like, no, we will not accept this shittiness. 0:39:36.365 --> 0:39:37.805 We are going to find a way out of this. 0:39:38.765 --> 0:39:42.005 What would you like to say to Audrey Osha, say 0:39:42.045 --> 0:39:43.565 something to you for life? 0:39:43.925 --> 0:39:51.205 Yes, yeah, yeah, It's no secret that Audrey saved my life. 0:39:51.285 --> 0:39:56.125 There's no question because she when I was really bad, 0:39:56.445 --> 0:39:59.725 she looked at me and she saw me and she 0:39:59.885 --> 0:40:02.845 saw my sick brain as two separate things. And that 0:40:03.045 --> 0:40:06.565 was very, very lucky that she did. So I'm so 0:40:06.605 --> 0:40:11.445 grateful for Audrey's kindness and care and self reflection and 0:40:12.285 --> 0:40:15.645 willingness to work on this all right, because I was told, 0:40:16.125 --> 0:40:18.725 you know, after I've got divorced, and I was a 0:40:18.725 --> 0:40:21.765 bit MOPy made of mine just said, mate, look, there's 0:40:21.805 --> 0:40:23.445 no such thing as the one. There's just the one 0:40:23.485 --> 0:40:25.485 who wants to work on it with you, and that's it. 0:40:26.205 --> 0:40:29.165 And Audrey wants to work on this. Sometimes it's shift 0:40:29.205 --> 0:40:32.445 fucking hard, man. Sometimes it's real. 0:40:32.285 --> 0:40:36.205 Hard, I believe, just keeping up with the parts of 0:40:36.245 --> 0:40:37.925 the alphabet that you know about. 0:40:38.805 --> 0:40:40.845 There's a lot. 0:40:41.085 --> 0:40:42.925 Anyone that tries to tell you that marriage is not 0:40:42.965 --> 0:40:45.165 a participation support is lying to you. 0:40:45.525 --> 0:40:46.045 All right. 0:40:46.125 --> 0:40:48.405 There's getting married and then there's staying married. They're two 0:40:48.445 --> 0:40:52.165 different things, and one of them is a far more active, 0:40:52.925 --> 0:40:54.725 participatory kind of thing. 0:40:55.045 --> 0:40:57.845 You really need to do it. You can't just expect 0:40:57.845 --> 0:40:58.605 it to be there. 0:40:59.365 --> 0:41:03.445 And you know, there's times where, like anybody, like, there's 0:41:03.485 --> 0:41:04.885 times where you're like, I don't know how we're going 0:41:04.925 --> 0:41:05.925 to get to the end of the day is to 0:41:05.965 --> 0:41:08.885 be married, and then at nighttime you're on the couch. 0:41:09.365 --> 0:41:11.085 Oh my god, I love your shit? Are you? 0:41:11.845 --> 0:41:15.565 And I'm just so grateful that Audrey is as of today, 0:41:15.645 --> 0:41:17.645 still willing to work on it with me. 0:41:19.085 --> 0:41:20.445 I've put her through the Ringer. 0:41:20.285 --> 0:41:24.845 Man, but she's not alone, you know, and I'm very 0:41:25.045 --> 0:41:29.045 I'm so grateful. I'm so grateful that she still has 0:41:29.045 --> 0:41:30.405 the willingness to work on this with me. 0:41:30.885 --> 0:41:34.205 When you talk about also being a good dad to 0:41:34.325 --> 0:41:41.085 Wolfy as well, how old he now nearly six, What 0:41:41.885 --> 0:41:46.365 is the most important thing for you to model for him? 0:41:47.605 --> 0:41:50.565 Like you said, people are always saying I tell my 0:41:50.645 --> 0:41:54.165 kid this, and I tell my kid that, which is 0:41:55.045 --> 0:41:57.805 not really taking into account as you said, they're watching 0:41:57.845 --> 0:41:58.445 what we do. 0:41:59.205 --> 0:42:00.645 Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. 0:42:00.765 --> 0:42:02.525 What's the most important? 0:42:04.325 --> 0:42:06.845 I think at this point it is to be kind 0:42:07.365 --> 0:42:12.165 and to be courageous and just teaching to be kind, 0:42:12.405 --> 0:42:14.485 try shrying to be kind and shrying to be courageous, 0:42:14.485 --> 0:42:17.525 all right, but you know he's five and it's going 0:42:17.605 --> 0:42:20.165 to make mistakes. But that's also you know, to be 0:42:20.245 --> 0:42:21.965 kind to yourself, to give yourself a break. 0:42:22.845 --> 0:42:28.205 Oshagunsberg, Kate Langbrook. If if you were to. 0:42:29.965 --> 0:42:34.725 Lose everything materially and you were down to the essence 0:42:34.845 --> 0:42:40.925 of yourself, what part of yourself would you want to 0:42:40.965 --> 0:42:42.165 hold onto the most? 0:42:42.885 --> 0:42:48.005 Curiosity? I think I think that's the for me. 0:42:48.085 --> 0:42:51.085 That's the key is to try to be curious, and 0:42:51.165 --> 0:42:55.005 remember when I'm not being curious, just try to notice 0:42:55.045 --> 0:42:58.645 what's going on. Like I'm here without any of my 0:42:58.685 --> 0:43:01.605 stuff or my things or my little hand holdly thing 0:43:01.645 --> 0:43:03.165 that I play with, and I'm talking to people like 0:43:03.245 --> 0:43:05.645 you or my sauna or my kids or whatever. 0:43:06.685 --> 0:43:07.725 How do I feel about that? 0:43:08.245 --> 0:43:11.045 Because if I noticed how I feel about it, then 0:43:11.805 --> 0:43:13.765 it's the two of us. It's the person that might 0:43:13.765 --> 0:43:15.485 feel shitty about it and the person that's looking at 0:43:15.485 --> 0:43:17.245 the person feeling shitty about it. And now I have 0:43:17.285 --> 0:43:19.805 a choice, because if I'm just in it, I don't 0:43:19.845 --> 0:43:21.965 really have many choices. Do I start to just be 0:43:22.045 --> 0:43:25.005 reactive and that's probably not a great place to be. 0:43:25.845 --> 0:43:30.325 So I would say, yeah, curiosity, and are you happy? 0:43:32.365 --> 0:43:37.805 Happiness is not a destination, nor is happiness at all 0:43:38.125 --> 0:43:41.685 something that lasts. Happiness is something that we must work at. 0:43:42.005 --> 0:43:47.405 Happiness is something that is never permanent, and happiness can 0:43:47.485 --> 0:43:53.085 only exist when we have sadness. Everything oscillates and we 0:43:54.045 --> 0:43:55.045 have to be okay with that. 0:43:55.285 --> 0:43:55.765 All right. 0:43:56.765 --> 0:44:01.805 We can find happiness, but it doesn't It doesn't show 0:44:01.885 --> 0:44:04.685 up when we buy shit. And this is the great 0:44:04.725 --> 0:44:07.365 fallacy of the community that we live in. And I'm 0:44:07.805 --> 0:44:10.205 as bad as anybody. Oh, look, other hour glass time 0:44:10.325 --> 0:44:11.965 I can put it in most Yes, I love that, 0:44:13.125 --> 0:44:15.125 all right, I'm as bad as anybody. I've got four 0:44:15.165 --> 0:44:17.565 pairs of headphones sitting on this desk. Can I wear 0:44:17.605 --> 0:44:18.805 four pairs of headphones at once? 0:44:19.045 --> 0:44:19.285 No? 0:44:19.845 --> 0:44:21.885 But I have four pairs of fucking headphones because I'm 0:44:21.885 --> 0:44:26.485 an Happiness does not arrive from the purchase of stuff. 0:44:26.805 --> 0:44:30.885 Happiness arrives from helping another person. Where are communal species? 0:44:31.165 --> 0:44:35.485 We evolved because we banded together in communities, and forty 0:44:35.525 --> 0:44:39.685 people are much better at looking after themselves than four, 0:44:39.885 --> 0:44:43.165 all right, And it is through helping others that we 0:44:43.245 --> 0:44:46.045 are wired to feel better. We are wired that we 0:44:46.085 --> 0:44:49.965 are rewarded when we help other people. So be of 0:44:50.045 --> 0:44:53.365 service to someone, help a person that will never help 0:44:53.405 --> 0:44:56.085 you back, and just feel how good it feels. 0:44:56.325 --> 0:44:59.285 What do you think is your primary service? 0:45:00.125 --> 0:45:01.245 My primary service? 0:45:03.085 --> 0:45:05.925 So I know that communicating with people is a big 0:45:05.965 --> 0:45:06.525 thing for you. 0:45:08.805 --> 0:45:10.045 I just want kids to be. 0:45:12.205 --> 0:45:14.165 You know, I want I want my kids to be 0:45:14.365 --> 0:45:19.485 a positive addition to the community we live in. All right. 0:45:19.845 --> 0:45:20.765 That's that's the best. 0:45:20.765 --> 0:45:22.845 That's what That's the best I can do, all right, 0:45:23.485 --> 0:45:25.925 that if I can make these two and help these 0:45:25.925 --> 0:45:32.445 two wonderful, incredibly wonderful people be a positive contribution and 0:45:32.485 --> 0:45:35.165 a positive addition to the community we live in, then 0:45:35.645 --> 0:45:37.965 then that's everything that I can. If I can help 0:45:38.005 --> 0:45:40.645 them find the things that they want in life, then 0:45:41.045 --> 0:45:41.485 that's it. 0:45:41.565 --> 0:45:45.325 Man, that's it. It wasn't just me. That was like 0:45:45.405 --> 0:45:46.925 a lot of people have to be there, Like we 0:45:47.005 --> 0:45:49.045 all work to do that. There's a lot of people. 0:45:48.845 --> 0:45:52.525 In our life that helpful, sure, the village, but you 0:45:52.605 --> 0:45:56.125 also have an extraordinary work ethic. 0:45:56.485 --> 0:45:58.605 I don't know how to not do it, all right, 0:45:59.005 --> 0:46:01.045 I don't know. I don't know what. I don't know 0:46:01.085 --> 0:46:03.765 what to do with myself If I'm not working, I don't. 0:46:04.325 --> 0:46:09.685 I know what you'll do sauna, I spa therapy, but 0:46:10.605 --> 0:46:11.165 you've got. 0:46:10.965 --> 0:46:14.005 To make money to pay the therapist. Cake, they're not free. Okay, 0:46:14.725 --> 0:46:18.405 maybe you need shoes you got from somewhere, all right? 0:46:20.765 --> 0:46:25.165 Ohha, thank you for joining us on No Filter. Thank you, 0:46:25.765 --> 0:46:27.965 thanks for letting me poke around in your head. 0:46:28.925 --> 0:46:31.605 There's a lot of stuff in there than. 0:46:32.605 --> 0:46:34.885 I should also thank you because I remember I was 0:46:34.885 --> 0:46:37.005 on radio once with a bloke you work for a 0:46:37.005 --> 0:46:42.325 long time, Mattie Acton, and it was a breakfast radio. 0:46:43.165 --> 0:46:46.525 It is a tricky beast and it was one morning. 0:46:47.165 --> 0:46:48.805 You know, I got fucking caught up in a bunch 0:46:48.805 --> 0:46:50.365 of shit in my brain and I kind of got 0:46:50.365 --> 0:46:54.325 caught up with something and I heard you rightly critique 0:46:54.365 --> 0:46:56.685 some ship that I sat on air, and I was 0:46:57.005 --> 0:46:58.125 really grateful you did that. 0:46:58.565 --> 0:46:59.685 Oh do you remember that? 0:46:59.965 --> 0:47:02.805 What was it? I no, I can't remember. I said 0:47:02.805 --> 0:47:07.205 something fucking dumb and what what's flavor of it? 0:47:07.365 --> 0:47:10.445 Was something about I think you was referring to a doctor. 0:47:10.925 --> 0:47:13.045 I was, I don't know what was going on with me, 0:47:13.205 --> 0:47:14.845 and he goes, so you doctor, did he do this? 0:47:14.885 --> 0:47:18.045 And I went, come on, Matte, doctors can be women. Too, dude, 0:47:18.365 --> 0:47:18.725 And it was. 0:47:18.685 --> 0:47:22.485 Like something that guy all right, Like I had a 0:47:22.525 --> 0:47:28.165 felt on and yeah, you know, and I was on 0:47:28.205 --> 0:47:30.685 about you know, patriarchy, this and that and the other, 0:47:31.005 --> 0:47:33.725 and you talked about it on air and I remember 0:47:33.725 --> 0:47:36.485 reading it and I went, you know what, she's you know, 0:47:36.925 --> 0:47:39.525 that's fucking that's fair. And it gave me an opportunity 0:47:39.605 --> 0:47:41.405 to have a look at where it was. 0:47:41.445 --> 0:47:42.685 And I was, actually, you know what. 0:47:43.565 --> 0:47:45.485 That was probably I've been a little caught up in 0:47:45.525 --> 0:47:47.765 a bit of this business, and it gave me an 0:47:47.765 --> 0:47:50.085 opportunity to have a bit of reflection and a bit 0:47:50.125 --> 0:47:50.765 of space on that. 0:47:50.845 --> 0:47:52.125 And so I'm grateful that you did that. 0:47:54.205 --> 0:47:57.125 I can't remember it, but thank you. I thank you 0:47:57.165 --> 0:47:58.485 for the thank you. 0:47:58.485 --> 0:47:59.205 No, it's important. 0:47:59.285 --> 0:48:00.965 It's important that we need to be able to change 0:48:00.965 --> 0:48:02.325 our minds because at the time I wouldn't have said 0:48:02.365 --> 0:48:04.605 it on air if I didn't believe it right, But 0:48:04.845 --> 0:48:07.245 when you spoke about it, I've kind of had a 0:48:07.245 --> 0:48:08.525 bit of a think about it, and you know what, 0:48:08.525 --> 0:48:09.165 that was a bit of. 0:48:09.165 --> 0:48:13.525 A oh oh, it's here. 0:48:15.045 --> 0:48:17.325 Being a puppet for the patriarchy is not something he 0:48:17.325 --> 0:48:20.285 can call anybody else out on because he works on 0:48:20.325 --> 0:48:22.485 a show called The Bachelor that pimps out a dozen 0:48:22.525 --> 0:48:25.485 young women to one man who's often a stripper, not always. 0:48:26.045 --> 0:48:27.925 Oh my goodness, we were. 0:48:31.125 --> 0:48:31.605 Were we? 0:48:31.685 --> 0:48:34.525 I was also wearing a felt hat, mind you, I 0:48:34.605 --> 0:48:35.925 was filling three hours a dance. 0:48:36.165 --> 0:48:42.245 Was wow, that's amazing and we could have we could 0:48:42.245 --> 0:48:42.805 have just done it. 0:48:42.885 --> 0:48:45.525 On top of a top of likening the reality show 0:48:45.525 --> 0:48:49.165 to one that pimps out young women, Langbrook slammed Gudsburg 0:48:49.245 --> 0:48:53.245 for calling his co host a puppet. You cannot Gunsburg 0:48:53.325 --> 0:48:56.245 accuse anybody else of being a puppet, a tool, or 0:48:56.285 --> 0:48:58.365 any part of the patriarchy as long as you are 0:48:58.445 --> 0:49:02.125 this person. The show then proceeded to play a snippet 0:49:02.125 --> 0:49:04.285 ofhs audio from the Batchel. 0:49:05.405 --> 0:49:08.085 And so wow, I'm grateful you. 0:49:08.605 --> 0:49:12.005 Oh things got hated between you and act and on Thursday, 0:49:12.285 --> 0:49:15.805 when Acting referred to a listener's boss as mail, Oh 0:49:15.845 --> 0:49:19.165 my goodness, I don't remember any of these well, but. 0:49:19.085 --> 0:49:20.845 I love I'm grateful that you. 0:49:21.845 --> 0:49:24.725 Isn't that wonderful how memory works for one, But I'm 0:49:24.725 --> 0:49:27.765 also I'm just grateful that I'm grateful that you did 0:49:27.765 --> 0:49:30.685 that all right, because we're not always going to get 0:49:30.685 --> 0:49:32.405 it right. And as we said at the start of 0:49:32.405 --> 0:49:35.125 this conversation, you know, I've chosen to put myself out 0:49:35.325 --> 0:49:38.565 into the public and at the of what the public 0:49:38.605 --> 0:49:39.725 think about what it is that I do. 0:49:40.045 --> 0:49:43.885 Some of those things I take and go nothing to 0:49:43.925 --> 0:49:44.285 do with me. 0:49:44.885 --> 0:49:47.605 Some of those things I go, you know what, You've 0:49:47.605 --> 0:49:50.005 got something there and I might need to I might 0:49:50.045 --> 0:49:51.965 need to check that. And so I'm grateful that you 0:49:52.005 --> 0:49:55.205 did that because it started me on a different way 0:49:55.245 --> 0:49:56.045 of thinking about things. 0:49:56.205 --> 0:49:56.645 So thank you. 0:49:56.765 --> 0:50:03.765 Well, I'm also checking myself. You know, you've got to 0:50:03.845 --> 0:50:04.645 check the checker. 0:50:05.245 --> 0:50:06.965 I believe it was asked QB who said you need 0:50:07.005 --> 0:50:08.685 to check yourself before you wreck yourself. 0:50:09.405 --> 0:50:15.645 Believe you are right, my friend, AUVOI Osha, see you soon, 0:50:15.805 --> 0:50:16.325 my friend. 0:50:20.005 --> 0:50:22.565 I think it's easy to think. 0:50:22.405 --> 0:50:26.205 Sometimes that people we see on our televisions are really 0:50:26.245 --> 0:50:29.565 the sum of the parts that we see, and Osha 0:50:29.805 --> 0:50:33.125 is the living embodiment of the fact that there's so 0:50:33.325 --> 0:50:37.525 much more than what comes through the television. If you've 0:50:37.525 --> 0:50:41.045 ever found yourself in a moment of reinvention or wondering 0:50:41.165 --> 0:50:45.765 what comes next, I hope this conversation has been helpful 0:50:46.525 --> 0:50:50.805 and has made you realize that you're not alone. In 0:50:50.845 --> 0:50:54.885 that boat in the Life Vote. I'm Kate lane Brook, 0:50:55.205 --> 0:50:58.885 host of No Filter. The executive producer is Nama Brown. 0:50:59.325 --> 0:51:03.605 Senior producer is Bree Player, with audio production by Jacob Brown. 0:51:04.525 --> 0:51:07.285 Thank you for listening to No Filter and I'll be 0:51:07.365 --> 0:51:10.685 back next week with another unforgettable guest.