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Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast. Mama Mea acknowledges

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Speaker 1: the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast

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Speaker 1: is recorded on.

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Speaker 2: Oh I'll be dead, There's no question. There's no question.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I wouldn't be alive. There's absolutely no question, no

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Speaker 3: question at all. The horror that I was lining with.

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Speaker 2: Forget about it, absolutely forget about it.

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Speaker 4: Welcome to No Filter. I'm Kate lane Brook. You know

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Speaker 4: Osher Gunsberg. He's the face of The Bachelor, The Bachelorette,

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Speaker 4: the Masks, singer and of course Australian Idol. He's the

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Speaker 4: voice of bond I Rescue and he's been so familiar

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Speaker 4: to us on our screens for more than two decades.

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Speaker 4: But what happens when the cameras stop rolling. In this conversation,

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Speaker 4: Osher talks about what it's been like to find his

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Speaker 4: footing in a changing industry and what it really feels

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Speaker 4: like to be in your fifties with years of experience

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Speaker 4: and struggling to find work. He opens up about the

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Speaker 4: financial pressure that comes with that and how he's learning

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Speaker 4: to redefine what success actually looks like. We also talk

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Speaker 4: about his ongoing mental health journey. There's no conversation with

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Speaker 4: Osher without addressing that, and what makes his marriage work

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Speaker 4: during tough times, why step fatherhood has been the most

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Speaker 4: rewarding and hardest role of his life. This is a

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Speaker 4: conversation about identity, resilience, and figuring out who you are

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Speaker 4: when everything around you starts to shift. He's a guy

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Speaker 4: who goes deep, and so do we. Oshagunsburg, Welcome to

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Speaker 4: No Filter.

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Speaker 2: I'm thrilled to be here.

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Speaker 4: Okay, So when I was doing my deep dive on you,

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Speaker 4: which I already was quite in deep with you actually

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Speaker 4: just through having been alive in this country, nobody can

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Speaker 4: interview you without referring to your haircuts or your name changes.

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Speaker 3: Okay, if that's what they want, what I wink that

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Speaker 3: the content of what they bring to a production has

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Speaker 3: more to do.

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Speaker 1: But no, But here's the thing.

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Speaker 4: I actually think that they're markers of certain periods in

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Speaker 4: your life.

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Speaker 1: Of course, as is the therapy.

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Speaker 4: That you have embarked upon that goes with each of those,

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Speaker 4: and the self work that you have done.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, and maybe I've been a bit more visual

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Speaker 3: or visible about that than others, because you can't be

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Speaker 3: what you can't see. And I felt it was important

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Speaker 3: to start talking about the kind of things that I

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Speaker 3: needed to hear when I wasn't doing very well. And

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Speaker 3: I think it's important to normalize this stuff. You're nice

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Speaker 3: stranger to normalizing difficult conversations, and I think it's important

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Speaker 3: that if you just start speaking in a way. Look,

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Speaker 3: I'm a human like anybody, and I do life that

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Speaker 3: might be a little more visible than others, but you know,

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Speaker 3: I'm a human being and I do human stuff, and

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Speaker 3: it's human to feel these things. And if you're feeling

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Speaker 3: some of them, they can end in this way, but

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Speaker 3: if you do something about it, it can end up better.

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Speaker 4: I'm curious about the point at which because your evolution

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Speaker 4: has been remarkable, and as you said, a lot of

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Speaker 4: it conducted under the like often obsessive and cruel scrutiny

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Speaker 4: of the public eye, right, and you have a remarkable

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Speaker 4: capacity to bring yourself to things.

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Speaker 2: Well, I chose this job, all right.

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Speaker 3: There's a moment in Godfather Part two where Michael Corleoni

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Speaker 3: is talking a hymen Roth.

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Speaker 4: Please do the accent, Please do the accent, Please do

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Speaker 4: the accent, Please do the accent.

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Speaker 3: You know he's talking to hyd Roth, who is actually

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Speaker 3: his acting coach and one of the great acting coaches

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Speaker 3: of the world. He's upset at Michael Coleoni for whacking

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Speaker 3: one of his friends, and he says, but I never

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Speaker 3: complained because it was business, and this is the business

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Speaker 3: we have chosen, And this is the job I chose.

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Speaker 2: I chose a public facing job.

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Speaker 3: And there's parts of the public facing job that I

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Speaker 3: have dealt with in lately far better ways.

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Speaker 2: Than I used to, But there's this is the job

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Speaker 2: I chose.

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Speaker 3: I chose a job where I am putting myself out

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Speaker 3: to the opinions of the public. And part of the

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Speaker 3: work that I get to do is I get to

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Speaker 3: have a long, hard look at myself in the magical

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Speaker 3: maas and mirrors and really get to choose what those

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Speaker 3: opinions of the public mean to me. And in the

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Speaker 3: past I have sometimes made the mean all kinds of

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Speaker 3: things and it has derailed me in parts, and lately,

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Speaker 3: in the last fifteen years or so, it's been a

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Speaker 3: lot easier. So yeah, I mean, it's important. It's important

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Speaker 3: to be able to have this kind of conversation publicly,

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Speaker 3: and that's why I started the podcast in twenty thirteen.

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Speaker 3: Bookcase I wasn't hearing the kind of things that I

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Speaker 3: was needing to hear when I.

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Speaker 2: Wasn't doing very well. I wasn't doing well when I

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Speaker 2: started that show. And similarly, that's why I wrote this book.

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Speaker 3: In what was I wrote this book because I read

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Speaker 3: this book because I wish this is the book that

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Speaker 3: I wish I had when I wasn't doing very well.

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Speaker 1: This is the book you're talking about, So what now?

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Speaker 3: What?

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Speaker 1: And when I was reading it, which was it's very accessible.

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Speaker 4: It's a graphic novel, and I think when I first

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Speaker 4: got it this might be a metaphor for you. I

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Speaker 4: underestimated what it would contain within do you know what

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Speaker 4: I mean?

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Speaker 1: Because of the presentation of it seems.

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Speaker 2: So I'm all about the trojan horse, all about it.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 3: It's if I can, if I can sneak into the

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Speaker 3: machine and disrupt from the inside, then I've done my job.

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Speaker 3: And if I can present a set of tools that

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Speaker 3: for me were life saving in a way that doesn't

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Speaker 3: feel like I'm trying to tell you something, doesn't see

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Speaker 3: it feel like I know better than you, or it

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Speaker 3: doesn't feel like you're broken, and it's just look, here's

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Speaker 3: some stuff. Take it or leave it, it's up to you,

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Speaker 3: and then I've done my job right and I worked

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Speaker 3: really really hard to hopefully thread that needle.

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Speaker 4: What was it If we go back to twenty thirteen

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Speaker 4: when you started your podcast and you said you wanted

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Speaker 4: somewhere basically to find some tools that would help you

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Speaker 4: where you were at that time. Where were you at

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Speaker 4: that time that needed that.

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Speaker 3: Twenty thirteen, I've been sober for about three years.

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Speaker 2: I just got divorced.

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Speaker 3: I was out in Los Angeles, paying rent out of

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Speaker 3: my savings and kind of starting to maybe get whiffs

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Speaker 3: that there might be I was creating TV formats and

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Speaker 3: I'm pitching them down in Australia and I was in

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Speaker 3: pre production for a TV show when it was a

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Speaker 3: dating show, and I was in pre production for this

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Speaker 3: dating show, and then the network said, hey, I know

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Speaker 3: you're here doing pre production on this dating show, but

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Speaker 3: we just put another dating show.

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Speaker 2: It's called Bachelor. Would you want to host that? Yes?

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Speaker 2: I would.

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Speaker 3: So I was out here by myself back in Australia,

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Speaker 3: kind of single and sober for the first time, trying

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Speaker 3: to figure it out, dealing with degrading like sometimes better

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Speaker 3: mental health than I had in a long time, but

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Speaker 3: in many ways worse mental health than I had a

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Speaker 3: long time, and I wasn't hearing the kind of conversations

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Speaker 3: I needed to hear, which was that other people also

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Speaker 3: had similar struggles and other people found ways to overcome

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Speaker 3: them and just to normalize stuff like not necessarily I

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Speaker 3: need to find the answer in this next three minutes

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Speaker 3: of audio.

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Speaker 2: Just oh yeah, I know that.

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Speaker 3: And I do a lot of jobs to keep my

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Speaker 3: mortgage paid these days, Kate, it used to be just

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Speaker 3: one or two is about thirteen. But there's a through

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Speaker 3: line to all of them. And I think the one

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Speaker 3: job that I think I do better, that's than everything.

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Speaker 3: The one job I do is to I try to

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Speaker 3: make people feel less alone. That's my job, okay, And

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Speaker 3: that be through a book or a podcast, or whether

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Speaker 3: I'm doing a keynote or hosting a TV show.

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Speaker 1: Giving a girl a rose, I am.

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Speaker 3: I am a one man example of the Mandela effect

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Speaker 3: because I've never given anyway. I never a rose once, never,

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Speaker 3: not one time, but I ever give a rose.

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Speaker 2: But everyone asked me, did you ever give a rose?

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Speaker 3: Like?

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Speaker 1: No, that is Mandela effect.

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Speaker 4: I get to be a I think I always thought

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Speaker 4: watching that show well, I wondered how much input you.

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Speaker 1: Had to it.

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Speaker 3: Thankfully, in later seasons an amount which was more than

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Speaker 3: other people would expect from the host of a show.

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Speaker 3: They were the production company was very very open to input,

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Speaker 3: and we were all creating it together, which I'm very

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Speaker 3: very great for.

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Speaker 4: You know, you're not the one who drove it off

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Speaker 4: the tracks though with the multiple bachelors, because that was

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Speaker 4: a shark jumping moment.

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Speaker 1: I couldn't keep art.

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Speaker 2: I don't know.

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Speaker 3: You've been involved in you've been involved in in very

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Speaker 3: very highly successful shows, and you've been involved in shows that,

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Speaker 3: even though they've been highly successful and you're trying new things,

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Speaker 3: sometimes those things don't work and you're doing everything you can,

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Speaker 3: and you know, sometimes things change around you. You're doing

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Speaker 3: all the stuff you're doing right and it might it

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Speaker 3: might not hit, but you've got to take a risk.

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Speaker 2: Okay.

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Speaker 3: I think there's a lot of factors that went into

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Speaker 3: how there's there's always a lot of factors that go

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Speaker 3: into how a TV format grows and changes over time.

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Speaker 3: Some of those things make that TV format keep going

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Speaker 3: and sometimes they don't. But sometimes those things are completely

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Speaker 3: iudio control. You know, it could be the license fee

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Speaker 3: that they signed with the format owner that makes it

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Speaker 3: no longer affordable to make. It's got nothing to do

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Speaker 3: with with you. It's show business, not your friends. And

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Speaker 3: there may be a business case that doesn't equal the

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Speaker 3: production budget and then the show stops going and that's.

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Speaker 4: Fine, okay, So on that note, this is an unusual time.

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Speaker 1: But in show.

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Speaker 4: Bees, which is my bees and your bees, these are

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Speaker 4: weird times. And we know that the weird times have

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Speaker 4: come and knocking for other people already. Do you know

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Speaker 4: what I mean? Like in automation of production or someone

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Speaker 4: who was a journalist would know this, But now it's

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Speaker 4: knocking on our door.

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Speaker 1: How does that feel?

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Speaker 4: Because you have been such a big part of Australian television,

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Speaker 4: You've been one of the most widely seen hosts across

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Speaker 4: a variety of formats, and because you are prone to introspection,

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Speaker 4: how do you process that?

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Speaker 2: So what you're talking about is that? And I asked

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Speaker 2: this this morning.

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Speaker 3: We're recording this a day after I was voted off

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Speaker 3: the Island of Dancing with the Stuff, and I asked

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Speaker 3: the publicist johnno this morning, I said, what were the

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Speaker 3: numbers last night? And you know, he said, some numbers whatever,

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Speaker 3: they were nine hundred something. I was like, oh, so

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Speaker 3: nine is a new one and ones a new two.

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Speaker 2: Pretty much. There was a time when you would get

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Speaker 2: two million and not even you know, you.

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Speaker 3: Get one point five, not even blinked, right, you get

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Speaker 3: one point five now like you're taking the.

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Speaker 2: Board to lunch.

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Speaker 1: Or they're taking you to lunch.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, my part.

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Speaker 3: I can only control my part in this, Kate, and

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Speaker 3: that would be that I was so busy trying to

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Speaker 3: be the healthiest. I could be the best husband, I

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Speaker 3: could be the best dad stepdad, that I could be

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Speaker 3: the best person who does my job.

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Speaker 2: That I could be, and trying to be that.

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Speaker 3: Not succeeding, but you know, to the level I would

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Speaker 3: like to in many of those ways, but doing my

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Speaker 3: very best. I was too busy doing that to look

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Speaker 3: up and notice things like share prices and ratings and

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Speaker 3: viewership across the board and market ad spend and business

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Speaker 3: stuff that I have never really needed to pay attention

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Speaker 3: to earlier in my career, but lately understood that, oh crikey,

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Speaker 3: if the ad revenue is not coming in, then the

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Speaker 3: production budget's not justified, and it's got nothing to do

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Speaker 3: with the kind of job that I do. I could

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Speaker 3: do the best job ever. Both the show's too expensive

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Speaker 3: to make, they can't make it, and so that was

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Speaker 3: my part. I was too busy making this stuff. And

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Speaker 3: then I kind of looked up and realized I was

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Speaker 3: the last one left. Other people had seen this coming,

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Speaker 3: but I didn't, And that's my responsibility to own. We're

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Speaker 3: in a very very interesting time, Don't get me wrong.

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Speaker 3: There's more people looking at screens than they've ever looked

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Speaker 3: at screens before. Yes, there's more advertising money and visual

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Speaker 3: media than there has been in a really, really, really

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Speaker 3: long time. It's just not in the business models that

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Speaker 3: existed that I came up.

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Speaker 1: It's not on the big screen in the living room.

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Speaker 3: Well it is, it is, it's just not through the

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Speaker 3: previously it inherent owned channels that existed. It's an arm

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Speaker 3: wrestle over HDMI one for everyone's living room, okay, and

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Speaker 3: most of the time that HDMI one is going to

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Speaker 3: be at Apple Box or might be just a smart TV, right,

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Speaker 3: and the first button's going to be Netflix, the second

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Speaker 3: button's going to be YouTube, or maybe the other way around.

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Speaker 3: And way down the end somewhere is Australian freedoware it apps,

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Speaker 3: And that's really really difficult for many, many reasons.

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Speaker 2: And it's not just from an industry reason.

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Speaker 3: When you know, whenever I run into somebody that I've

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Speaker 3: worked with, I'm like, oh my god, you're working Stoke

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Speaker 3: for you. Okay, it's not just for those reasons. I

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Speaker 3: feel that as a country we need to really take

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Speaker 3: a long, hard look at ourselves about how much we

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Speaker 3: value our culture and what value it is to us

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Speaker 3: as a nation to have a cohesive cultural narrative.

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Speaker 2: We still have it through sport, which we're lucky.

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Speaker 4: Sort of, even though that it's a divide. That's a

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Speaker 4: divide as well.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, we do still like supports so much.

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Speaker 3: But it is really really important that A great example

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Speaker 3: would be the Coldplay meme. Yeah, okay, that moment where

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Speaker 3: everyone knows the thing you're talking about. Yes, that hasn't

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Speaker 3: happened in three fucking years, okay, but it used to

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Speaker 3: happen every day. Every single day. You would go to

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Speaker 3: work and say did you see that? I saw that?

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Speaker 3: And everyone knew what you want.

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Speaker 4: By the way, in case there's two people that don't know,

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Speaker 4: it was the CEO with his head of HR at

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Speaker 4: the Cold Blake concert. Who got caught on the jumbo

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Speaker 4: tron kissing It was sprang apart so guiltily it was.

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Speaker 1: It was okay.

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Speaker 3: Chris Martin shitting ingrin really sold it though, it was

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Speaker 3: like and even he knew.

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Speaker 2: You really needed that on the scene. But this is

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Speaker 2: this is the thing.

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Speaker 3: We we had this cultural moment that complete strangers were

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Speaker 3: able to relate to the same thing and go, yes,

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Speaker 3: we both saw this thing, and we both relate to

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Speaker 3: this thing, and this gives us a little way point

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Speaker 3: for which to navigate the rest of our lives around

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Speaker 3: because right now, there used to be four versions of

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Speaker 3: the news every night, and that was what the news.

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Speaker 2: Was all right.

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Speaker 3: Now there's any version of the news that you want,

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Speaker 3: and none of it will make you uncomfortable. If you choose,

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Speaker 3: you can watch all your news through a lens that

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Speaker 3: gives you just what you want to hear about it,

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Speaker 3: and not what you don't that makes you feel funny

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Speaker 3: in the tummy. It's really important that we see ourselves

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Speaker 3: and our stories on screen, and whether it be through

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Speaker 3: an unscripted format like a singing show or a cooking

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Speaker 3: show or Great Australian Bake Off, which I love, even

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Speaker 3: though I can't eat any of it because I'm vegan

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Speaker 3: and Celiac, but it's somethink.

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Speaker 2: It's a really wholesome show and I really love it.

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Speaker 3: Or you know, any kind of nonscripted reality show or drama.

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Speaker 3: It's really really important that we see our culture reflected.

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Speaker 3: Otherwise we're just going to end up like a weird

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Speaker 3: echo of America and the right and because the Australian

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Speaker 3: cultural value needs it's the third actor in any scene

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Speaker 3: that you ever watch, right, the way that Australians look

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Speaker 3: at something. If you look at any American cop show

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Speaker 3: or any American show, there's always the idea that someone

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Speaker 3: might have a gun and they're not afraid to use it.

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Speaker 2: Well, that doesn't happen. So how do we get out

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Speaker 2: of a sticky situation here? All Right?

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Speaker 3: It's really really important that we value our culture, and

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Speaker 3: we value our storytellers, and that we value the people

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Speaker 3: that make those stories. We wouldn't let gastroentrologists go out of

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Speaker 3: work if we suddenly killed Celiac disease, but we would

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Speaker 3: keep them around in case we needed them. But we're

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Speaker 3: about to have this gigantic loss of knowledge in our

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Speaker 3: storytelling industries, radio, television, film that we're not going to

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Speaker 3: get back.

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Speaker 2: And that's a really weird place for us to be.

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Speaker 4: And I don't think anybody would argue that it's not important.

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Speaker 4: And when I say anybody, I mean people. People know

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Speaker 4: that's important. People know what they value.

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Speaker 3: There was a thing that used to happen where we

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Speaker 3: had local content rules. Having worked in radio, you would

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Speaker 3: understand why you would have Australian artist on radio because

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Speaker 3: there was a mandate if you had a broadcast license

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Speaker 3: you needed to play a certain percentage of Australian music.

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Speaker 3: Right that also exists with free toware broadcasters. You have

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Speaker 3: to have a certain percentage of Australian content that does

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Speaker 3: not exist for the streamers. Okay, And we talk a

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Speaker 3: lot about tariffs or subsidies and such like this. We'll

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Speaker 3: subsidize fossil fuel in our country up the freakin' wa Zoo.

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Speaker 3: We will give overseas companies billions of dollars of our

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Speaker 3: sovereign wealth for no tax whatsoever. We're not protecting our

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Speaker 3: culture and protecting the stories that make us Australian. By

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Speaker 3: protecting our storytelling industries, we don't will high vis so

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Speaker 3: we don't matter and that sucks. But when it's gone,

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Speaker 3: we're not going to be able to get it back.

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Speaker 3: And then we become this, like I said, we've become

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Speaker 3: this weird rhyming slang of you know, either an American

349
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Speaker 3: or a British view on things, and it's really weird.

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Speaker 4: So Ashualy, you know, you referred to having several jobs

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Speaker 4: now to pay your mortgage thirteen and I think you

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Speaker 4: said now whereas once it only took one or two.

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Speaker 4: Not literal, but your point is a valid one you

354
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Speaker 4: must encounter all the time, the assumption that because you

355
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Speaker 4: work in such a public facing role that you are

356
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Speaker 4: cashed up to the moon and back.

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Speaker 3: I'm the same as anybody, right, I know we're supposed

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Speaker 3: to live within our means. But like anyone, you get

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Speaker 3: the mortgage that you think, yeah, we can do that.

360
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Speaker 2: I don't you want job you're in, that's what you do,

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Speaker 2: and you just back yourself. Yep, thirty years, let's go,

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Speaker 2: otherwise you'll never leave the rental.

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Speaker 4: And by the way, everyone's mortgage in Australia now is

364
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Speaker 4: eye watering.

365
00:19:06,525 --> 00:19:07,085
Speaker 2: Everybody.

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Speaker 3: I don't care who you are, all right, you got

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00:19:09,525 --> 00:19:12,405
Speaker 3: the mortgage that you breathed in through your teeth, and

368
00:19:12,605 --> 00:19:12,965
Speaker 3: it might.

369
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Speaker 2: Be caravan parks for wild kids, and you know when.

370
00:19:15,445 --> 00:19:19,085
Speaker 3: It comes to holidays, but you hit go and and

371
00:19:19,245 --> 00:19:22,565
Speaker 3: our situation is the same. You know, you you live,

372
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Speaker 3: you build a life, you know within, you build a

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Speaker 3: life that is in response to the work that you're doing.

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Speaker 3: And certainly once kids show up, you know, you get

375
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Speaker 3: into schools and you start doing all kinds of things,

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Speaker 3: and those expenses don't just go away. I had four

377
00:19:41,285 --> 00:19:44,925
Speaker 3: primetime TV shows on the mortgage form. None of those

378
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Speaker 3: I was going to show.

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Speaker 4: I hope that's not the time that you actually got

380
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Speaker 4: your mortgage, but it is.

381
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Speaker 3: It was, and none of those shows exist now. But

382
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Speaker 3: we're still here because I have had to be very

383
00:19:58,605 --> 00:20:01,205
Speaker 3: innovative about what you said, I'm trying to do here.

384
00:20:01,725 --> 00:20:05,165
Speaker 3: It's the same dance at anyone plays. And you know,

385
00:20:05,685 --> 00:20:07,445
Speaker 3: whether we get to stay here or not, I don't know.

386
00:20:07,485 --> 00:20:10,725
Speaker 3: But look the days of oh, you've got our job

387
00:20:10,805 --> 00:20:13,565
Speaker 3: in television, so now you are set for life that

388
00:20:13,845 --> 00:20:14,245
Speaker 3: have not.

389
00:20:14,325 --> 00:20:15,685
Speaker 2: Existed since the eighties.

390
00:20:15,725 --> 00:20:20,365
Speaker 3: Man, like pre GFC TV money, I saw the like

391
00:20:20,765 --> 00:20:22,605
Speaker 3: a glimpse of the back end of it, But that

392
00:20:22,685 --> 00:20:23,845
Speaker 3: stuff doesn't yest.

393
00:20:24,045 --> 00:20:28,405
Speaker 2: Not in Australia, no way. Man. Nah. There's people who

394
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Speaker 2: don't work anywhere near broadcast.

395
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Speaker 3: TV that make way more money using their freaking phone.

396
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Speaker 1: This is very interesting because it's interesting kind.

397
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Speaker 4: Of on a macro and a micro level, or you know,

398
00:20:41,645 --> 00:20:43,645
Speaker 4: on a more personal level.

399
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Speaker 1: What does it mean for you?

400
00:20:46,445 --> 00:20:50,685
Speaker 4: Like, how do you feel about Really, you've been on

401
00:20:50,725 --> 00:20:54,205
Speaker 4: our screens for I'm going to say twenty years longer.

402
00:20:54,085 --> 00:20:57,365
Speaker 2: Probably started in ninety nine, Yeah, so.

403
00:20:57,485 --> 00:20:58,645
Speaker 1: Twenty six years.

404
00:20:59,165 --> 00:21:04,085
Speaker 4: What does it feel like for you when you realize,

405
00:21:04,725 --> 00:21:07,165
Speaker 4: like you said that this was you with a frog

406
00:21:07,205 --> 00:21:09,445
Speaker 4: in the boiling water, not really realizing what was going

407
00:21:09,445 --> 00:21:12,605
Speaker 4: on around you. But like you said, you've got a

408
00:21:12,605 --> 00:21:15,285
Speaker 4: mortgage to pay, and you've got a wife, and you've

409
00:21:15,325 --> 00:21:18,525
Speaker 4: got a kid, you've got to a step daughter, and

410
00:21:18,925 --> 00:21:20,165
Speaker 4: you've got a life to live.

411
00:21:20,325 --> 00:21:21,885
Speaker 1: How does that feel?

412
00:21:22,285 --> 00:21:25,525
Speaker 2: I mean, like, I mean, I'm not special.

413
00:21:26,005 --> 00:21:28,525
Speaker 3: I'm not the only fifty something year old guy that's

414
00:21:28,525 --> 00:21:31,605
Speaker 3: found themselves at the wrong end of a you know,

415
00:21:32,045 --> 00:21:35,965
Speaker 3: a shrinkage in a market or a technological iteration. You know,

416
00:21:36,045 --> 00:21:39,725
Speaker 3: this happens in many, many, many industries. As we mentioned,

417
00:21:39,765 --> 00:21:41,245
Speaker 3: I just get to do it public a little more

418
00:21:41,245 --> 00:21:46,285
Speaker 3: publicly than others. And you know, in many ways, it's

419
00:21:46,405 --> 00:21:47,965
Speaker 3: what the book is about.

420
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Speaker 2: It's you know, four wonderful words. So what now?

421
00:21:50,485 --> 00:21:53,805
Speaker 3: What Am I going to be upset about it? Or

422
00:21:54,485 --> 00:21:56,885
Speaker 3: am I going to do something about it? Because I

423
00:21:56,925 --> 00:21:58,525
Speaker 3: can be upset about it, but all that's going to

424
00:21:58,525 --> 00:22:00,245
Speaker 3: happen is I'll just stay upset about it and nothing

425
00:22:00,245 --> 00:22:02,405
Speaker 3: will happen and it'll just get worse. Or I could

426
00:22:02,445 --> 00:22:06,965
Speaker 3: do something about it, and being in action will get

427
00:22:07,005 --> 00:22:09,725
Speaker 3: me as long as I'm in moving towards what I value,

428
00:22:09,725 --> 00:22:11,645
Speaker 3: which is looking after my family and try to connect

429
00:22:11,685 --> 00:22:13,525
Speaker 3: with people and try to make people feel less alone.

430
00:22:14,085 --> 00:22:17,445
Speaker 3: Being an action will feel better, even if it's not

431
00:22:17,445 --> 00:22:18,445
Speaker 3: bringing money in the door.

432
00:22:19,245 --> 00:22:21,325
Speaker 2: Being an action will feel better than doing nothing.

433
00:22:21,765 --> 00:22:24,805
Speaker 3: And it is through that action that the clues and

434
00:22:24,845 --> 00:22:28,285
Speaker 3: the spontaneity and the serendipity that bring the next opportunity.

435
00:22:27,725 --> 00:22:30,725
Speaker 1: A right, So the so what now?

436
00:22:30,845 --> 00:22:35,125
Speaker 4: What is based on a certain type of therapy? You

437
00:22:35,165 --> 00:22:38,125
Speaker 4: know a lot about therapy? Can you tell me what

438
00:22:38,165 --> 00:22:39,925
Speaker 4: types of therapy you know about?

439
00:22:40,725 --> 00:22:45,045
Speaker 3: Oh? Well, look, it's different courses for different horses.

440
00:22:45,125 --> 00:22:48,045
Speaker 2: Okay, If horse rest is your thing, it's not really mine.

441
00:22:48,085 --> 00:22:50,485
Speaker 3: But you know, you can go to a physio for

442
00:22:50,525 --> 00:22:52,925
Speaker 3: some things, you go to a chiropractor for others. All right,

443
00:22:53,045 --> 00:22:55,925
Speaker 3: there's the same people they put their elbows in your back,

444
00:22:55,965 --> 00:22:58,645
Speaker 3: but they do different things. Similarly, there's different kinds of

445
00:22:58,645 --> 00:23:04,445
Speaker 3: therapists for different kinds of situations, and therapy is something

446
00:23:04,485 --> 00:23:06,525
Speaker 3: that you can go to for a while and then

447
00:23:06,605 --> 00:23:09,765
Speaker 3: you get us at tools and the kind of hold

448
00:23:09,805 --> 00:23:11,325
Speaker 3: your hand for a bit and then they kind of

449
00:23:11,525 --> 00:23:12,805
Speaker 3: patch you on the bum and send you off into

450
00:23:12,805 --> 00:23:14,845
Speaker 3: the world. And with that set of tools, you've now

451
00:23:14,925 --> 00:23:16,685
Speaker 3: been able to expand your universe and have a bit

452
00:23:16,685 --> 00:23:19,485
Speaker 3: more possibility. But then might happen is now you're in

453
00:23:19,525 --> 00:23:20,925
Speaker 3: this new world and you can do things. You might

454
00:23:20,925 --> 00:23:22,645
Speaker 3: get an new job or a new partner, or have

455
00:23:22,725 --> 00:23:25,805
Speaker 3: a kid, or change jobs or move state. And now

456
00:23:25,805 --> 00:23:27,285
Speaker 3: you've got a bit more stress in your life. Oh

457
00:23:27,405 --> 00:23:29,405
Speaker 3: now I don't have enough skills. I better go back

458
00:23:29,445 --> 00:23:30,965
Speaker 3: and grab a few more tools so I can get

459
00:23:30,965 --> 00:23:34,205
Speaker 3: through this next bit. And so that's basically what I've done,

460
00:23:34,205 --> 00:23:37,205
Speaker 3: because I know when I'm outgunned, and I know when

461
00:23:37,245 --> 00:23:39,805
Speaker 3: I need ideas that aren't mine to get me out

462
00:23:39,805 --> 00:23:43,085
Speaker 3: of the woods. And I think The first bunch of

463
00:23:43,125 --> 00:23:46,485
Speaker 3: therapy I learned was cognitive behavioral therapy. It's called CBT.

464
00:23:46,565 --> 00:23:49,885
Speaker 3: But don't google that because you will not find behavioral therapy.

465
00:23:50,285 --> 00:23:51,485
Speaker 2: Oh no, no no.

466
00:23:52,765 --> 00:23:55,165
Speaker 3: And that's a broadly kind of available It's got its

467
00:23:55,245 --> 00:23:59,005
Speaker 3: ups and downs, you know, but a broadly available, self

468
00:23:59,045 --> 00:24:02,445
Speaker 3: administered kind of thing, and it's really really powerful stuff.

469
00:24:03,005 --> 00:24:04,365
Speaker 2: You've got to work at it, though, you've got to

470
00:24:04,445 --> 00:24:04,805
Speaker 2: use it.

471
00:24:04,965 --> 00:24:06,965
Speaker 4: Is that a one on one thing? So you go

472
00:24:07,045 --> 00:24:10,165
Speaker 4: to the cognitive behavior therapists?

473
00:24:10,245 --> 00:24:11,845
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, they teach you how to do it.

474
00:24:12,165 --> 00:24:14,005
Speaker 3: They teach you how to do it, but it's very

475
00:24:14,045 --> 00:24:19,525
Speaker 3: much learning how to observe your thoughts and feelings, understand

476
00:24:19,605 --> 00:24:24,085
Speaker 3: that they might not necessarily be right. Understand that there's

477
00:24:24,125 --> 00:24:27,205
Speaker 3: a common set of distortions that our brains can do,

478
00:24:27,565 --> 00:24:30,525
Speaker 3: like black or white thinking, or predicting the future, or

479
00:24:30,765 --> 00:24:36,205
Speaker 3: catastrophizing or magnifying or diminishing and go hang on any

480
00:24:36,245 --> 00:24:38,125
Speaker 3: of those things, going on, Oh yeah they are. Okay,

481
00:24:38,125 --> 00:24:39,445
Speaker 3: what's a different thought I might be able to have

482
00:24:39,485 --> 00:24:39,925
Speaker 3: about this?

483
00:24:40,525 --> 00:24:42,805
Speaker 2: Oh? I could think about it in this way?

484
00:24:42,845 --> 00:24:46,325
Speaker 3: Okay, great, let's try that, and then just taking the

485
00:24:46,445 --> 00:24:50,485
Speaker 3: breath and going all right, like it could mean like

486
00:24:51,125 --> 00:24:54,485
Speaker 3: the day that I lost two jobs in one day,

487
00:24:55,165 --> 00:24:57,005
Speaker 3: the ones that how I ended up like no job,

488
00:24:57,605 --> 00:25:01,245
Speaker 3: out of money, out of work, living in America, and

489
00:25:01,485 --> 00:25:04,165
Speaker 3: my man, David, he says to me, I'm excited for you, pal.

490
00:25:04,405 --> 00:25:06,205
Speaker 3: It means that universe have got bigger plans for you.

491
00:25:06,365 --> 00:25:08,085
Speaker 3: I said, I don't believe you, man, you didn't hear me.

492
00:25:08,085 --> 00:25:09,845
Speaker 3: I just said I lost both my last one day

493
00:25:09,845 --> 00:25:12,365
Speaker 3: and I have no job. I don't believe you heard me.

494
00:25:12,885 --> 00:25:17,085
Speaker 3: I'm excited for you. The universe has bigger plans for you. Now,

495
00:25:17,165 --> 00:25:20,005
Speaker 3: I'm not really a believer in the universe gives me

496
00:25:20,045 --> 00:25:21,485
Speaker 3: what I ask for kind of thing. But what he

497
00:25:21,525 --> 00:25:23,325
Speaker 3: was trying to tell me was you can look at

498
00:25:23,365 --> 00:25:26,965
Speaker 3: it like everything sucks and my life is terrible, or

499
00:25:27,005 --> 00:25:29,245
Speaker 3: you can look at it as okay, now I can

500
00:25:29,245 --> 00:25:30,285
Speaker 3: make anything happen here.

501
00:25:30,925 --> 00:25:33,085
Speaker 2: Both those things can be true. We get to choose

502
00:25:33,125 --> 00:25:33,525
Speaker 2: which one.

503
00:25:33,605 --> 00:25:36,245
Speaker 3: And that's kind of what the cognitive behavioral therapy thing, right,

504
00:25:37,245 --> 00:25:38,925
Speaker 3: Acceptance commitment therapy is.

505
00:25:38,965 --> 00:25:40,525
Speaker 1: This is this so what?

506
00:25:41,445 --> 00:25:41,685
Speaker 2: Yeah?

507
00:25:41,765 --> 00:25:42,165
Speaker 1: Now what?

508
00:25:42,765 --> 00:25:45,005
Speaker 2: Yah? So yeah, that's yeah, we worked.

509
00:25:45,285 --> 00:25:47,925
Speaker 3: Accept As commitment therapy is it does what it says

510
00:25:47,965 --> 00:25:51,845
Speaker 3: on the tin, right, and it is accepting the thing

511
00:25:51,925 --> 00:25:54,885
Speaker 3: you can't control, and then action in accordance with your values.

512
00:25:55,045 --> 00:25:57,925
Speaker 3: I'm not alone in this, but about I don't know,

513
00:25:58,045 --> 00:26:00,365
Speaker 3: eight weeks or ten weeks before Wolfgang was born.

514
00:26:00,165 --> 00:26:01,485
Speaker 2: I was doing really well.

515
00:26:01,525 --> 00:26:03,925
Speaker 3: I was off meds for the first time in a

516
00:26:03,925 --> 00:26:08,085
Speaker 3: long time, fantastic, life is going really well. That it

517
00:26:08,125 --> 00:26:09,685
Speaker 3: was getting worse and I didn't want to I would

518
00:26:09,685 --> 00:26:12,685
Speaker 3: admit it, and it was getting worse. And then we

519
00:26:12,685 --> 00:26:15,805
Speaker 3: were on We had a weekend away with g and

520
00:26:15,845 --> 00:26:17,285
Speaker 3: it was like the last week that we could fly

521
00:26:17,365 --> 00:26:20,965
Speaker 3: before Audrey was like too pregnant to fly. And she

522
00:26:21,045 --> 00:26:22,485
Speaker 3: just took one look at me and says, I need

523
00:26:22,525 --> 00:26:24,325
Speaker 3: you to go back to you psychiatrist, get back on meds.

524
00:26:24,325 --> 00:26:27,365
Speaker 3: You've got to be around because you're getting bad. And

525
00:26:27,405 --> 00:26:30,405
Speaker 3: I knew enough to know, right I got to I

526
00:26:30,405 --> 00:26:31,885
Speaker 3: don't know it when I'm in it. And if she's

527
00:26:31,925 --> 00:26:33,685
Speaker 3: telling me, I need to go see my doctor, see

528
00:26:33,685 --> 00:26:35,405
Speaker 3: my doctor. So I emailed him and he sent me

529
00:26:35,445 --> 00:26:35,925
Speaker 3: a script.

530
00:26:36,045 --> 00:26:39,325
Speaker 4: What could Audrey see that you couldn't see yourself because

531
00:26:39,405 --> 00:26:41,405
Speaker 4: you were immersed? Like, how did it manifest?

532
00:26:42,085 --> 00:26:42,325
Speaker 2: Oh?

533
00:26:43,325 --> 00:26:47,205
Speaker 3: Very rigid thinking, inability to change plans, in ability to

534
00:26:47,565 --> 00:26:49,285
Speaker 3: not do the thing that we talked about we were

535
00:26:49,285 --> 00:26:50,845
Speaker 3: going to do this morning. Now we're doing something else,

536
00:26:50,885 --> 00:26:52,805
Speaker 3: and just like it, being in a like unable to

537
00:26:52,845 --> 00:26:57,805
Speaker 3: cope with it short of temper, snappy, cranky, that kind

538
00:26:57,845 --> 00:27:01,005
Speaker 3: of stuff. But the rigid thinking is the and being

539
00:27:01,365 --> 00:27:04,925
Speaker 3: being a bit lost my brain getting very very full

540
00:27:05,085 --> 00:27:08,805
Speaker 3: with the noise of the scaries. That kind of takes

541
00:27:08,805 --> 00:27:10,205
Speaker 3: me a bit out at the moment. I kind of

542
00:27:10,405 --> 00:27:12,445
Speaker 3: get this, I'm not here look in my eye because

543
00:27:12,485 --> 00:27:16,925
Speaker 3: I'm busy tending to trying to put out the fires

544
00:27:17,125 --> 00:27:20,525
Speaker 3: in my head. And so I got back on the

545
00:27:20,565 --> 00:27:22,605
Speaker 3: meds and I was doing it. I was trying really hard,

546
00:27:22,605 --> 00:27:24,845
Speaker 3: but it wasn't getting better. And I was like, fucking hell,

547
00:27:24,885 --> 00:27:26,965
Speaker 3: I'm going to end up on anti psychotics again, because

548
00:27:26,965 --> 00:27:29,405
Speaker 3: I was on two kinds of anti psychotics and a

549
00:27:29,445 --> 00:27:31,085
Speaker 3: bunch of other heavy meds because.

550
00:27:31,125 --> 00:27:32,125
Speaker 2: I got really, really sick.

551
00:27:32,725 --> 00:27:34,045
Speaker 3: And I'm like, I didn't want to get back on

552
00:27:34,045 --> 00:27:36,005
Speaker 3: those meds because they're great because you're not crazy, but

553
00:27:36,685 --> 00:27:38,365
Speaker 3: you put a lot of weight because they messed with

554
00:27:38,405 --> 00:27:41,725
Speaker 3: your instulin response and your testosterone goes out the window

555
00:27:41,845 --> 00:27:44,285
Speaker 3: and the world feels like blue tag But it's nice

556
00:27:44,365 --> 00:27:46,645
Speaker 3: because you're not dealing with suicidal idiation all day. But

557
00:27:47,805 --> 00:27:50,885
Speaker 3: after a while it gets a bit like is this it?

558
00:27:51,245 --> 00:27:54,445
Speaker 3: So I went and found someone here in Sydney and

559
00:27:54,725 --> 00:27:58,885
Speaker 3: we started talking and lo and behold, she was the

560
00:27:58,885 --> 00:28:02,205
Speaker 3: one that helped me go through all the exposure, therapy,

561
00:28:02,605 --> 00:28:03,925
Speaker 3: all the you know.

562
00:28:04,325 --> 00:28:05,045
Speaker 2: All that kind of stuff.

563
00:28:05,045 --> 00:28:08,085
Speaker 3: It's teaching me the skill set to be with the

564
00:28:08,205 --> 00:28:12,085
Speaker 3: uncomfortable thoughts feelings, making space for those uncomfortable thoughts and

565
00:28:12,125 --> 00:28:15,485
Speaker 3: feelings and knowing that I can hold them in one hand,

566
00:28:15,605 --> 00:28:18,125
Speaker 3: and also be with the joy and giggling of my

567
00:28:18,245 --> 00:28:21,525
Speaker 3: son seeing rainbow lorikeet for the first time, and be

568
00:28:21,565 --> 00:28:24,405
Speaker 3: able to hold both of those things because what was

569
00:28:24,405 --> 00:28:25,925
Speaker 3: happening is my brain was just so full of the

570
00:28:25,965 --> 00:28:29,165
Speaker 3: negative I couldn't feel the good stuff. We have the

571
00:28:29,205 --> 00:28:33,125
Speaker 3: capacity to hold joy and sadness at the same time,

572
00:28:33,245 --> 00:28:35,885
Speaker 3: we have enough room to do it, but we brain

573
00:28:35,925 --> 00:28:38,445
Speaker 3: can get tripped to think, oh, it's bad, so everything's

574
00:28:38,485 --> 00:28:39,045
Speaker 3: got to be bad.

575
00:28:42,525 --> 00:28:45,965
Speaker 4: Coming up after the break, Asher shares why being a

576
00:28:46,085 --> 00:28:55,925
Speaker 4: step parent is harder than being a parent. This is

577
00:28:57,245 --> 00:29:02,525
Speaker 4: very interesting who I constantly think about now when I

578
00:29:02,605 --> 00:29:04,045
Speaker 4: hear you do all of this.

579
00:29:04,325 --> 00:29:07,925
Speaker 1: To explain all of this and the journey zeh is

580
00:29:08,005 --> 00:29:09,085
Speaker 1: audrey O wife.

581
00:29:09,125 --> 00:29:12,285
Speaker 4: Yeah, yes, because it's one thing to be the person

582
00:29:12,325 --> 00:29:16,965
Speaker 4: who's putting the pieces in the puzzle of yourself, and

583
00:29:17,005 --> 00:29:20,125
Speaker 4: it's another thing to be the person who loves the

584
00:29:20,165 --> 00:29:26,485
Speaker 4: person who's constantly putting pieces and analyzing pieces and trying

585
00:29:26,485 --> 00:29:30,365
Speaker 4: to find how to make the picture complete or whatever,

586
00:29:31,005 --> 00:29:34,405
Speaker 4: like that's an amazing thing. She fell in love with you.

587
00:29:36,085 --> 00:29:40,845
Speaker 4: Did you explain to her how complex you were?

588
00:29:42,925 --> 00:29:47,925
Speaker 3: I let her know her like the moment that it

589
00:29:48,005 --> 00:29:52,805
Speaker 3: had the hint of becoming romantic. I told her, Look,

590
00:29:52,845 --> 00:29:55,325
Speaker 3: I'm on a lot of anti psychotics and you know,

591
00:29:55,765 --> 00:29:59,725
Speaker 3: some SSRIs and nsros, so you know, if there's a

592
00:29:59,845 --> 00:30:03,565
Speaker 3: muted response, that's what's going on. So she knew from

593
00:30:03,565 --> 00:30:06,845
Speaker 3: the start, all right, But it is it is not easy.

594
00:30:07,365 --> 00:30:10,125
Speaker 3: It is not easy to be with someone who's trying

595
00:30:10,125 --> 00:30:13,925
Speaker 3: their best to trying to use the brain they've got

596
00:30:14,005 --> 00:30:15,805
Speaker 3: to live with the brain they've got.

597
00:30:16,325 --> 00:30:17,245
Speaker 2: It's really hard.

598
00:30:17,285 --> 00:30:19,525
Speaker 3: Because you mentioned the puzzle analogy, like a lot of

599
00:30:19,525 --> 00:30:22,965
Speaker 3: the time, a lot of the time, the big problems are, oh,

600
00:30:23,125 --> 00:30:26,125
Speaker 3: that's the answer, and then you know, charging at it

601
00:30:26,205 --> 00:30:29,285
Speaker 3: and then flipping the whole puzzle table upside down and

602
00:30:29,325 --> 00:30:31,325
Speaker 3: then having to start again and all you were trying

603
00:30:31,365 --> 00:30:35,165
Speaker 3: to do is make it better. And it sucks, man,

604
00:30:35,365 --> 00:30:40,685
Speaker 3: It sucks to know that sometimes I cause pain.

605
00:30:40,645 --> 00:30:43,445
Speaker 2: To you know, my wife and my family.

606
00:30:44,765 --> 00:30:49,765
Speaker 3: Because of a physiological thing that's going on between my ears.

607
00:30:49,965 --> 00:30:52,805
Speaker 3: But being aware of it is all I can do,

608
00:30:52,925 --> 00:30:54,885
Speaker 3: and taking action about it is all I can do.

609
00:30:55,685 --> 00:30:59,125
Speaker 4: How old was Georgia when you and Audrey got together?

610
00:31:00,525 --> 00:31:01,085
Speaker 2: She was ten?

611
00:31:01,725 --> 00:31:06,485
Speaker 4: Ah? Interesting? Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's an amazing time to

612
00:31:07,125 --> 00:31:10,245
Speaker 4: enter a girl's life. Important.

613
00:31:11,485 --> 00:31:15,805
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, step fatherhood is I'm gonna I'm there's step

614
00:31:15,805 --> 00:31:18,245
Speaker 3: parenting and then there's parenting, and I do both, Kate,

615
00:31:18,285 --> 00:31:20,085
Speaker 3: and I'm here to tell you step parenting is harder.

616
00:31:20,805 --> 00:31:23,565
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, And why is that?

617
00:31:24,485 --> 00:31:28,885
Speaker 3: Because you love the kid just as much, you dedicate

618
00:31:28,925 --> 00:31:30,685
Speaker 3: your life to them just as much.

619
00:31:30,885 --> 00:31:36,245
Speaker 2: And because her dad's amazing. He's an amazing guy. I

620
00:31:36,325 --> 00:31:36,725
Speaker 2: love him.

621
00:31:36,765 --> 00:31:40,725
Speaker 3: He's a great dude, and he's her dad. And I'm

622
00:31:40,765 --> 00:31:43,965
Speaker 3: never going to be there, all right, And I never

623
00:31:44,045 --> 00:31:46,645
Speaker 3: wanted to. I'm never going to and I never tried

624
00:31:46,685 --> 00:31:50,605
Speaker 3: to be Okay, though, there is a like this this

625
00:31:50,645 --> 00:31:53,325
Speaker 3: thing inside you that's like, oh there's a bit missing,

626
00:31:53,845 --> 00:32:01,245
Speaker 3: all right, and it's tough. It's really tough. It's really tough,

627
00:32:01,325 --> 00:32:03,285
Speaker 3: but it doesn't stop the reason that you want to

628
00:32:03,325 --> 00:32:03,965
Speaker 3: do it right.

629
00:32:04,085 --> 00:32:06,965
Speaker 4: Okay, can I ask this? Did you have therapy for

630
00:32:07,085 --> 00:32:08,605
Speaker 4: being a step parent?

631
00:32:09,365 --> 00:32:13,525
Speaker 3: Oh? Fuck, yeah, absolutely, yeah, so I was. That's the

632
00:32:13,645 --> 00:32:16,565
Speaker 3: trickiest part about being a stepparent is you are thrown

633
00:32:16,645 --> 00:32:20,325
Speaker 3: into this job without any of the training.

634
00:32:21,285 --> 00:32:23,965
Speaker 2: Babies a great because it's the same thing.

635
00:32:23,885 --> 00:32:26,645
Speaker 3: Every two hours for about three months if you're lucky,

636
00:32:27,285 --> 00:32:29,285
Speaker 3: and then slowly, over time you figure it out and

637
00:32:29,285 --> 00:32:31,365
Speaker 3: they're usually too little to notice when you've really fucked

638
00:32:31,365 --> 00:32:34,405
Speaker 3: it up. And you know, Maggie didn't said thirty percents

639
00:32:34,445 --> 00:32:37,485
Speaker 3: good enough, so I just aim for that, and so

640
00:32:37,525 --> 00:32:38,685
Speaker 3: you learn over time.

641
00:32:38,525 --> 00:32:39,365
Speaker 2: How to deal with it.

642
00:32:40,525 --> 00:32:43,125
Speaker 3: And then I'm thrown into We moved in together when

643
00:32:43,205 --> 00:32:45,925
Speaker 3: she was eleven, so I've an eleven year old with

644
00:32:46,005 --> 00:32:48,845
Speaker 3: like about six weeks of parenting experience, and I made

645
00:32:48,885 --> 00:32:50,965
Speaker 3: a lot of mistakes I wish I didn't make, but

646
00:32:51,005 --> 00:32:53,565
Speaker 3: I was doing the best I could with what I had,

647
00:32:53,845 --> 00:32:58,125
Speaker 3: and Audrey brilliantly recognized that we were going in a

648
00:32:58,285 --> 00:33:00,925
Speaker 3: not a great direction and a man, I love the

649
00:33:00,925 --> 00:33:03,285
Speaker 3: Australian healthcare system. I lived in America for ten years,

650
00:33:03,325 --> 00:33:07,085
Speaker 3: where universal kid does not exist. She reached out to

651
00:33:07,085 --> 00:33:09,325
Speaker 3: the children's hospital near US. They had a brilliant out

652
00:33:09,365 --> 00:33:13,805
Speaker 3: patient unit and one specifically designed for blended families coming together.

653
00:33:14,085 --> 00:33:16,765
Speaker 2: And it was magnificent. It was magnificent.

654
00:33:17,365 --> 00:33:20,165
Speaker 3: I think she saw g I think once or twice,

655
00:33:20,205 --> 00:33:21,325
Speaker 3: I don't know. But the rest of the time was

656
00:33:21,405 --> 00:33:22,445
Speaker 3: me and Audrey and.

657
00:33:22,405 --> 00:33:25,205
Speaker 1: What did you learn about yourself?

658
00:33:25,205 --> 00:33:28,165
Speaker 4: Because I think one of the things about being a

659
00:33:28,245 --> 00:33:31,365
Speaker 4: parent or being in a parental role is it's really

660
00:33:31,645 --> 00:33:33,605
Speaker 4: illuminating about yourself.

661
00:33:35,325 --> 00:33:38,005
Speaker 3: Oh my god, it's the best and worst thing about

662
00:33:38,005 --> 00:33:41,925
Speaker 3: having kids is they don't do what you tell them.

663
00:33:41,925 --> 00:33:43,205
Speaker 2: But I'll do everything you show them.

664
00:33:43,765 --> 00:33:45,165
Speaker 1: That's so true.

665
00:33:46,325 --> 00:33:47,005
Speaker 2: It is right.

666
00:33:47,205 --> 00:33:49,405
Speaker 3: You start to hear them saying, feel like, she's why

667
00:33:49,405 --> 00:33:51,525
Speaker 3: does that piss me? Do it?

668
00:33:51,605 --> 00:33:52,365
Speaker 2: Where did you learn it?

669
00:33:52,405 --> 00:33:52,605
Speaker 3: Fuck?

670
00:33:52,645 --> 00:33:54,165
Speaker 2: You learn it from me and I learned it from

671
00:33:54,165 --> 00:33:58,685
Speaker 2: my dad. Fuck it's on me. I have to stop this.

672
00:33:59,725 --> 00:34:01,885
Speaker 1: So back to Audrey.

673
00:34:02,125 --> 00:34:07,525
Speaker 4: When the role that someone plays when they love someone

674
00:34:07,565 --> 00:34:14,565
Speaker 4: anyway is in an any successful relationship of supporting role.

675
00:34:15,205 --> 00:34:17,005
Speaker 4: I don't mean a lesser role, but I mean literally

676
00:34:17,045 --> 00:34:17,765
Speaker 4: one of support.

677
00:34:18,285 --> 00:34:22,125
Speaker 1: But then how do you when you have so much.

678
00:34:23,565 --> 00:34:27,605
Speaker 4: Consuming you and the work of life and working out

679
00:34:27,645 --> 00:34:33,765
Speaker 4: your life, taking such a big chunk of you to

680
00:34:33,925 --> 00:34:38,765
Speaker 4: navigate things. How do you make sure that as your wife,

681
00:34:39,525 --> 00:34:42,565
Speaker 4: she's represented on the ledger?

682
00:34:43,165 --> 00:34:48,005
Speaker 1: Do you know what I mean? Well, because because she takes.

683
00:34:49,645 --> 00:34:52,565
Speaker 4: You have to take such good care of you, careful

684
00:34:52,605 --> 00:34:56,405
Speaker 4: care of you, and she's also taking care of you,

685
00:34:58,405 --> 00:35:00,205
Speaker 4: how are you taking care of her?

686
00:35:02,925 --> 00:35:05,205
Speaker 2: Oh? This is the balance that any person in a

687
00:35:05,245 --> 00:35:10,965
Speaker 2: relationship has to face. In it there's the work life balance.

688
00:35:11,645 --> 00:35:14,765
Speaker 3: But if you're also dealing with something else, I don't know,

689
00:35:14,765 --> 00:35:19,365
Speaker 3: if you're managing type one diabetes or whatever, like, you've

690
00:35:19,405 --> 00:35:21,365
Speaker 3: got to figure it out and you've got to put

691
00:35:21,365 --> 00:35:24,805
Speaker 3: systems in place. Okay, Yeah, And that's that's the way

692
00:35:24,885 --> 00:35:27,805
Speaker 3: that I try. I try to get around it, Like

693
00:35:27,885 --> 00:35:31,565
Speaker 3: I don't. I have varying degrees of success in this,

694
00:35:32,205 --> 00:35:34,765
Speaker 3: and sometimes I think I'm doing a great job and

695
00:35:34,765 --> 00:35:38,525
Speaker 3: I'm doing a terrible job. Sometimes I think I really

696
00:35:38,525 --> 00:35:41,405
Speaker 3: need to do more around here, and she's fine. More

697
00:35:41,405 --> 00:35:43,365
Speaker 3: around here is in like you know, as in connecting

698
00:35:43,525 --> 00:35:49,845
Speaker 3: with youths. Fine, But there's also the reality of you know,

699
00:35:49,925 --> 00:35:55,045
Speaker 3: there's the first kracky pretty much until they're teenagers that

700
00:35:55,085 --> 00:35:58,485
Speaker 3: are out with their friends a bit, the relationship that

701
00:35:58,525 --> 00:36:01,325
Speaker 3: you have, the intimate relationship you have at home with

702
00:36:01,605 --> 00:36:04,645
Speaker 3: you know, your personal parenting your kids with is.

703
00:36:04,605 --> 00:36:06,325
Speaker 2: Going to be affected. I don't care who you are.

704
00:36:06,605 --> 00:36:08,965
Speaker 3: There isn't enough bandwidth to do all of it, and

705
00:36:09,005 --> 00:36:12,405
Speaker 3: you're just going to have to find, you know, often

706
00:36:13,085 --> 00:36:14,565
Speaker 3: the kids are going to win. They're going to win,

707
00:36:15,125 --> 00:36:18,445
Speaker 3: all right, and you've got to be okay with with that.

708
00:36:19,125 --> 00:36:21,045
Speaker 2: And it's it's hard. I'm not saying he's got to

709
00:36:21,045 --> 00:36:22,445
Speaker 2: be okay with me being a ship husband.

710
00:36:22,885 --> 00:36:25,965
Speaker 3: I'm just saying that there is an element of that

711
00:36:25,965 --> 00:36:28,765
Speaker 3: that everybody deals with. But then there's the added element

712
00:36:28,805 --> 00:36:30,565
Speaker 3: that Audrey has to deal with where.

713
00:36:30,325 --> 00:36:32,125
Speaker 2: I, you know, part of the brain.

714
00:36:32,605 --> 00:36:35,125
Speaker 3: When I first got diagnosed my my doctor, you know,

715
00:36:35,165 --> 00:36:37,045
Speaker 3: I was like, oh my god, I got what he goes, Well,

716
00:36:37,045 --> 00:36:38,325
Speaker 3: what do you think you've got? The career you've got?

717
00:36:38,445 --> 00:36:40,125
Speaker 3: Come on, man, all right?

718
00:36:40,605 --> 00:36:45,645
Speaker 4: So what was that diagnosis by? What was the first diagnosis?

719
00:36:47,245 --> 00:36:47,965
Speaker 2: Wasn't the PTSD?

720
00:36:48,085 --> 00:36:49,765
Speaker 3: Is when he when we started exploring o c D,

721
00:36:49,885 --> 00:36:51,925
Speaker 3: when we started exploring obsessive compulsive disorder.

722
00:36:52,285 --> 00:36:54,645
Speaker 2: There's a collective a few letters.

723
00:36:57,445 --> 00:37:00,285
Speaker 3: Some of which I've spoken about so which I'll speak

724
00:37:00,325 --> 00:37:03,445
Speaker 3: about in good time, but he helped me understand, like, well,

725
00:37:03,445 --> 00:37:05,285
Speaker 3: of course this is why you've got the life you've got,

726
00:37:05,405 --> 00:37:08,605
Speaker 3: because you've got this brain that your job now is

727
00:37:08,645 --> 00:37:10,845
Speaker 3: you need to take respond it's ability for it. And

728
00:37:11,485 --> 00:37:14,005
Speaker 3: you know, sometimes I can get I can get very

729
00:37:14,085 --> 00:37:18,245
Speaker 3: very focused, possibly too focused on things, and just forget,

730
00:37:19,165 --> 00:37:22,325
Speaker 3: not even forget. It's not even forget implies that it's

731
00:37:22,325 --> 00:37:25,525
Speaker 3: not important. My psychiatrist told me that I've got two

732
00:37:25,525 --> 00:37:28,365
Speaker 3: time zones. I've got now and not now, And sometimes

733
00:37:28,445 --> 00:37:31,085
Speaker 3: when I'm in the now part, it's as if the

734
00:37:31,165 --> 00:37:34,485
Speaker 3: not now doesn't exist. But then when I'm in the

735
00:37:34,525 --> 00:37:37,845
Speaker 3: knot now, which is now now, I think, why the

736
00:37:37,885 --> 00:37:40,885
Speaker 3: fuck didn't I do something about this? And now I

737
00:37:40,925 --> 00:37:45,765
Speaker 3: am facing the consequences of my inability to act when

738
00:37:45,805 --> 00:37:50,165
Speaker 3: I was back there in the now part, and that's very,

739
00:37:50,245 --> 00:37:52,845
Speaker 3: very hard, and trying to create systems that bridge those

740
00:37:52,845 --> 00:37:57,845
Speaker 3: two time zones has it's an ongoing challenge, and I

741
00:37:57,885 --> 00:38:01,245
Speaker 3: am I'm still trying to figure out how how to.

742
00:38:01,125 --> 00:38:03,525
Speaker 2: Do it best. What he puts up with a lot

743
00:38:04,085 --> 00:38:04,845
Speaker 2: she really does.

744
00:38:08,765 --> 00:38:12,685
Speaker 4: That's not all to my conversation with Osha after this break.

745
00:38:13,285 --> 00:38:26,845
Speaker 4: He explains how his wife, Audrey, has saved him. If

746
00:38:26,885 --> 00:38:34,245
Speaker 4: you had not embarked on the discovery via your various

747
00:38:34,285 --> 00:38:37,765
Speaker 4: forms of therapy, or your veganism or your giving up

748
00:38:37,805 --> 00:38:43,725
Speaker 4: alcohol or whatever, where do you think you would be now?

749
00:38:44,125 --> 00:38:45,325
Speaker 1: And who would you be?

750
00:38:46,245 --> 00:38:46,445
Speaker 2: Oh?

751
00:38:46,565 --> 00:38:49,445
Speaker 3: I would be dead, There's no question, no question. Yeah,

752
00:38:49,485 --> 00:38:52,045
Speaker 3: I wouldn't be alive. There's absolutely no question, no question

753
00:38:52,125 --> 00:38:54,205
Speaker 3: at all. The horror that I was living with forget

754
00:38:54,245 --> 00:38:58,485
Speaker 3: about it, absolutely forget about it. But I got really,

755
00:38:58,525 --> 00:39:01,925
Speaker 3: really lucky because I knew something was wrong. I got

756
00:39:02,045 --> 00:39:05,005
Speaker 3: very lucky that not only did I realize something wasn't right,

757
00:39:05,245 --> 00:39:08,245
Speaker 3: I also got very lucky in that I knew there

758
00:39:08,325 --> 00:39:10,805
Speaker 3: had to be more to life than this. I did

759
00:39:10,805 --> 00:39:12,725
Speaker 3: not get born to wake up every day to be

760
00:39:12,765 --> 00:39:15,845
Speaker 3: in this level of pain and anxiety. This is not

761
00:39:15,845 --> 00:39:18,165
Speaker 3: what I was born for. There is more than this.

762
00:39:19,045 --> 00:39:21,765
Speaker 3: It cannot end with this. Cant this cannot be this

763
00:39:21,805 --> 00:39:23,925
Speaker 3: for the next fifty years of my life. It has

764
00:39:24,005 --> 00:39:28,485
Speaker 3: to get better. And I thankfully I have this brain

765
00:39:28,525 --> 00:39:30,405
Speaker 3: that once I said it on course, it just goes.

766
00:39:31,085 --> 00:39:32,845
Speaker 3: I got lucky and I was able to set my

767
00:39:32,845 --> 00:39:36,285
Speaker 3: brain on like, no, we will not accept this shittiness.

768
00:39:36,365 --> 00:39:37,805
Speaker 2: We are going to find a way out of this.

769
00:39:38,765 --> 00:39:42,005
Speaker 4: What would you like to say to Audrey Osha, say

770
00:39:42,045 --> 00:39:43,565
Speaker 4: something to you for life?

771
00:39:43,925 --> 00:39:51,205
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, yeah, It's no secret that Audrey saved my life.

772
00:39:51,285 --> 00:39:56,125
Speaker 3: There's no question because she when I was really bad,

773
00:39:56,445 --> 00:39:59,725
Speaker 3: she looked at me and she saw me and she

774
00:39:59,885 --> 00:40:02,845
Speaker 3: saw my sick brain as two separate things. And that

775
00:40:03,045 --> 00:40:06,565
Speaker 3: was very, very lucky that she did. So I'm so

776
00:40:06,605 --> 00:40:11,445
Speaker 3: grateful for Audrey's kindness and care and self reflection and

777
00:40:12,285 --> 00:40:15,645
Speaker 3: willingness to work on this all right, because I was told,

778
00:40:16,125 --> 00:40:18,725
Speaker 3: you know, after I've got divorced, and I was a

779
00:40:18,725 --> 00:40:21,765
Speaker 3: bit MOPy made of mine just said, mate, look, there's

780
00:40:21,805 --> 00:40:23,445
Speaker 3: no such thing as the one. There's just the one

781
00:40:23,485 --> 00:40:25,485
Speaker 3: who wants to work on it with you, and that's it.

782
00:40:26,205 --> 00:40:29,165
Speaker 3: And Audrey wants to work on this. Sometimes it's shift

783
00:40:29,205 --> 00:40:32,445
Speaker 3: fucking hard, man. Sometimes it's real.

784
00:40:32,285 --> 00:40:36,205
Speaker 4: Hard, I believe, just keeping up with the parts of

785
00:40:36,245 --> 00:40:37,925
Speaker 4: the alphabet that you know about.

786
00:40:38,805 --> 00:40:40,845
Speaker 1: There's a lot.

787
00:40:41,085 --> 00:40:42,925
Speaker 3: Anyone that tries to tell you that marriage is not

788
00:40:42,965 --> 00:40:45,165
Speaker 3: a participation support is lying to you.

789
00:40:45,525 --> 00:40:46,045
Speaker 2: All right.

790
00:40:46,125 --> 00:40:48,405
Speaker 3: There's getting married and then there's staying married. They're two

791
00:40:48,445 --> 00:40:52,165
Speaker 3: different things, and one of them is a far more active,

792
00:40:52,925 --> 00:40:54,725
Speaker 3: participatory kind of thing.

793
00:40:55,045 --> 00:40:57,845
Speaker 2: You really need to do it. You can't just expect

794
00:40:57,845 --> 00:40:58,605
Speaker 2: it to be there.

795
00:40:59,365 --> 00:41:03,445
Speaker 3: And you know, there's times where, like anybody, like, there's

796
00:41:03,485 --> 00:41:04,885
Speaker 3: times where you're like, I don't know how we're going

797
00:41:04,925 --> 00:41:05,925
Speaker 3: to get to the end of the day is to

798
00:41:05,965 --> 00:41:08,885
Speaker 3: be married, and then at nighttime you're on the couch.

799
00:41:09,365 --> 00:41:11,085
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I love your shit? Are you?

800
00:41:11,845 --> 00:41:15,565
Speaker 3: And I'm just so grateful that Audrey is as of today,

801
00:41:15,645 --> 00:41:17,645
Speaker 3: still willing to work on it with me.

802
00:41:19,085 --> 00:41:20,445
Speaker 2: I've put her through the Ringer.

803
00:41:20,285 --> 00:41:24,845
Speaker 3: Man, but she's not alone, you know, and I'm very

804
00:41:25,045 --> 00:41:29,045
Speaker 3: I'm so grateful. I'm so grateful that she still has

805
00:41:29,045 --> 00:41:30,405
Speaker 3: the willingness to work on this with me.

806
00:41:30,885 --> 00:41:34,205
Speaker 4: When you talk about also being a good dad to

807
00:41:34,325 --> 00:41:41,085
Speaker 4: Wolfy as well, how old he now nearly six, What

808
00:41:41,885 --> 00:41:46,365
Speaker 4: is the most important thing for you to model for him?

809
00:41:47,605 --> 00:41:50,565
Speaker 4: Like you said, people are always saying I tell my

810
00:41:50,645 --> 00:41:54,165
Speaker 4: kid this, and I tell my kid that, which is

811
00:41:55,045 --> 00:41:57,805
Speaker 4: not really taking into account as you said, they're watching

812
00:41:57,845 --> 00:41:58,445
Speaker 4: what we do.

813
00:41:59,205 --> 00:42:00,645
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

814
00:42:00,765 --> 00:42:02,525
Speaker 1: What's the most important?

815
00:42:04,325 --> 00:42:06,845
Speaker 3: I think at this point it is to be kind

816
00:42:07,365 --> 00:42:12,165
Speaker 3: and to be courageous and just teaching to be kind,

817
00:42:12,405 --> 00:42:14,485
Speaker 3: try shrying to be kind and shrying to be courageous,

818
00:42:14,485 --> 00:42:17,525
Speaker 3: all right, but you know he's five and it's going

819
00:42:17,605 --> 00:42:20,165
Speaker 3: to make mistakes. But that's also you know, to be

820
00:42:20,245 --> 00:42:21,965
Speaker 3: kind to yourself, to give yourself a break.

821
00:42:22,845 --> 00:42:28,205
Speaker 1: Oshagunsberg, Kate Langbrook. If if you were to.

822
00:42:29,965 --> 00:42:34,725
Speaker 4: Lose everything materially and you were down to the essence

823
00:42:34,845 --> 00:42:40,925
Speaker 4: of yourself, what part of yourself would you want to

824
00:42:40,965 --> 00:42:42,165
Speaker 4: hold onto the most?

825
00:42:42,885 --> 00:42:48,005
Speaker 2: Curiosity? I think I think that's the for me.

826
00:42:48,085 --> 00:42:51,085
Speaker 3: That's the key is to try to be curious, and

827
00:42:51,165 --> 00:42:55,005
Speaker 3: remember when I'm not being curious, just try to notice

828
00:42:55,045 --> 00:42:58,645
Speaker 3: what's going on. Like I'm here without any of my

829
00:42:58,685 --> 00:43:01,605
Speaker 3: stuff or my things or my little hand holdly thing

830
00:43:01,645 --> 00:43:03,165
Speaker 3: that I play with, and I'm talking to people like

831
00:43:03,245 --> 00:43:05,645
Speaker 3: you or my sauna or my kids or whatever.

832
00:43:06,685 --> 00:43:07,725
Speaker 2: How do I feel about that?

833
00:43:08,245 --> 00:43:11,045
Speaker 3: Because if I noticed how I feel about it, then

834
00:43:11,805 --> 00:43:13,765
Speaker 3: it's the two of us. It's the person that might

835
00:43:13,765 --> 00:43:15,485
Speaker 3: feel shitty about it and the person that's looking at

836
00:43:15,485 --> 00:43:17,245
Speaker 3: the person feeling shitty about it. And now I have

837
00:43:17,285 --> 00:43:19,805
Speaker 3: a choice, because if I'm just in it, I don't

838
00:43:19,845 --> 00:43:21,965
Speaker 3: really have many choices. Do I start to just be

839
00:43:22,045 --> 00:43:25,005
Speaker 3: reactive and that's probably not a great place to be.

840
00:43:25,845 --> 00:43:30,325
Speaker 2: So I would say, yeah, curiosity, and are you happy?

841
00:43:32,365 --> 00:43:37,805
Speaker 3: Happiness is not a destination, nor is happiness at all

842
00:43:38,125 --> 00:43:41,685
Speaker 3: something that lasts. Happiness is something that we must work at.

843
00:43:42,005 --> 00:43:47,405
Speaker 3: Happiness is something that is never permanent, and happiness can

844
00:43:47,485 --> 00:43:53,085
Speaker 3: only exist when we have sadness. Everything oscillates and we

845
00:43:54,045 --> 00:43:55,045
Speaker 3: have to be okay with that.

846
00:43:55,285 --> 00:43:55,765
Speaker 2: All right.

847
00:43:56,765 --> 00:44:01,805
Speaker 3: We can find happiness, but it doesn't It doesn't show

848
00:44:01,885 --> 00:44:04,685
Speaker 3: up when we buy shit. And this is the great

849
00:44:04,725 --> 00:44:07,365
Speaker 3: fallacy of the community that we live in. And I'm

850
00:44:07,805 --> 00:44:10,205
Speaker 3: as bad as anybody. Oh, look, other hour glass time

851
00:44:10,325 --> 00:44:11,965
Speaker 3: I can put it in most Yes, I love that,

852
00:44:13,125 --> 00:44:15,125
Speaker 3: all right, I'm as bad as anybody. I've got four

853
00:44:15,165 --> 00:44:17,565
Speaker 3: pairs of headphones sitting on this desk. Can I wear

854
00:44:17,605 --> 00:44:18,805
Speaker 3: four pairs of headphones at once?

855
00:44:19,045 --> 00:44:19,285
Speaker 2: No?

856
00:44:19,845 --> 00:44:21,885
Speaker 3: But I have four pairs of fucking headphones because I'm

857
00:44:21,885 --> 00:44:26,485
Speaker 3: an Happiness does not arrive from the purchase of stuff.

858
00:44:26,805 --> 00:44:30,885
Speaker 3: Happiness arrives from helping another person. Where are communal species?

859
00:44:31,165 --> 00:44:35,485
Speaker 3: We evolved because we banded together in communities, and forty

860
00:44:35,525 --> 00:44:39,685
Speaker 3: people are much better at looking after themselves than four,

861
00:44:39,885 --> 00:44:43,165
Speaker 3: all right, And it is through helping others that we

862
00:44:43,245 --> 00:44:46,045
Speaker 3: are wired to feel better. We are wired that we

863
00:44:46,085 --> 00:44:49,965
Speaker 3: are rewarded when we help other people. So be of

864
00:44:50,045 --> 00:44:53,365
Speaker 3: service to someone, help a person that will never help

865
00:44:53,405 --> 00:44:56,085
Speaker 3: you back, and just feel how good it feels.

866
00:44:56,325 --> 00:44:59,285
Speaker 1: What do you think is your primary service?

867
00:45:00,125 --> 00:45:01,245
Speaker 2: My primary service?

868
00:45:03,085 --> 00:45:05,925
Speaker 1: So I know that communicating with people is a big

869
00:45:05,965 --> 00:45:06,525
Speaker 1: thing for you.

870
00:45:08,805 --> 00:45:10,045
Speaker 2: I just want kids to be.

871
00:45:12,205 --> 00:45:14,165
Speaker 3: You know, I want I want my kids to be

872
00:45:14,365 --> 00:45:19,485
Speaker 3: a positive addition to the community we live in. All right.

873
00:45:19,845 --> 00:45:20,765
Speaker 2: That's that's the best.

874
00:45:20,765 --> 00:45:22,845
Speaker 3: That's what That's the best I can do, all right,

875
00:45:23,485 --> 00:45:25,925
Speaker 3: that if I can make these two and help these

876
00:45:25,925 --> 00:45:32,445
Speaker 3: two wonderful, incredibly wonderful people be a positive contribution and

877
00:45:32,485 --> 00:45:35,165
Speaker 3: a positive addition to the community we live in, then

878
00:45:35,645 --> 00:45:37,965
Speaker 3: then that's everything that I can. If I can help

879
00:45:38,005 --> 00:45:40,645
Speaker 3: them find the things that they want in life, then

880
00:45:41,045 --> 00:45:41,485
Speaker 3: that's it.

881
00:45:41,565 --> 00:45:45,325
Speaker 2: Man, that's it. It wasn't just me. That was like

882
00:45:45,405 --> 00:45:46,925
Speaker 2: a lot of people have to be there, Like we

883
00:45:47,005 --> 00:45:49,045
Speaker 2: all work to do that. There's a lot of people.

884
00:45:48,845 --> 00:45:52,525
Speaker 4: In our life that helpful, sure, the village, but you

885
00:45:52,605 --> 00:45:56,125
Speaker 4: also have an extraordinary work ethic.

886
00:45:56,485 --> 00:45:58,605
Speaker 2: I don't know how to not do it, all right,

887
00:45:59,005 --> 00:46:01,045
Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't know what. I don't know

888
00:46:01,085 --> 00:46:03,765
Speaker 2: what to do with myself If I'm not working, I don't.

889
00:46:04,325 --> 00:46:09,685
Speaker 4: I know what you'll do sauna, I spa therapy, but

890
00:46:10,605 --> 00:46:11,165
Speaker 4: you've got.

891
00:46:10,965 --> 00:46:14,005
Speaker 2: To make money to pay the therapist. Cake, they're not free. Okay,

892
00:46:14,725 --> 00:46:18,405
Speaker 2: maybe you need shoes you got from somewhere, all right?

893
00:46:20,765 --> 00:46:25,165
Speaker 4: Ohha, thank you for joining us on No Filter. Thank you,

894
00:46:25,765 --> 00:46:27,965
Speaker 4: thanks for letting me poke around in your head.

895
00:46:28,925 --> 00:46:31,605
Speaker 1: There's a lot of stuff in there than.

896
00:46:32,605 --> 00:46:34,885
Speaker 3: I should also thank you because I remember I was

897
00:46:34,885 --> 00:46:37,005
Speaker 3: on radio once with a bloke you work for a

898
00:46:37,005 --> 00:46:42,325
Speaker 3: long time, Mattie Acton, and it was a breakfast radio.

899
00:46:43,165 --> 00:46:46,525
Speaker 2: It is a tricky beast and it was one morning.

900
00:46:47,165 --> 00:46:48,805
Speaker 3: You know, I got fucking caught up in a bunch

901
00:46:48,805 --> 00:46:50,365
Speaker 3: of shit in my brain and I kind of got

902
00:46:50,365 --> 00:46:54,325
Speaker 3: caught up with something and I heard you rightly critique

903
00:46:54,365 --> 00:46:56,685
Speaker 3: some ship that I sat on air, and I was

904
00:46:57,005 --> 00:46:58,125
Speaker 3: really grateful you did that.

905
00:46:58,565 --> 00:46:59,685
Speaker 2: Oh do you remember that?

906
00:46:59,965 --> 00:47:02,805
Speaker 1: What was it? I no, I can't remember. I said

907
00:47:02,805 --> 00:47:07,205
Speaker 1: something fucking dumb and what what's flavor of it?

908
00:47:07,365 --> 00:47:10,445
Speaker 2: Was something about I think you was referring to a doctor.

909
00:47:10,925 --> 00:47:13,045
Speaker 3: I was, I don't know what was going on with me,

910
00:47:13,205 --> 00:47:14,845
Speaker 3: and he goes, so you doctor, did he do this?

911
00:47:14,885 --> 00:47:18,045
Speaker 2: And I went, come on, Matte, doctors can be women. Too, dude,

912
00:47:18,365 --> 00:47:18,725
Speaker 2: And it was.

913
00:47:18,685 --> 00:47:22,485
Speaker 3: Like something that guy all right, Like I had a

914
00:47:22,525 --> 00:47:28,165
Speaker 3: felt on and yeah, you know, and I was on

915
00:47:28,205 --> 00:47:30,685
Speaker 3: about you know, patriarchy, this and that and the other,

916
00:47:31,005 --> 00:47:33,725
Speaker 3: and you talked about it on air and I remember

917
00:47:33,725 --> 00:47:36,485
Speaker 3: reading it and I went, you know what, she's you know,

918
00:47:36,925 --> 00:47:39,525
Speaker 3: that's fucking that's fair. And it gave me an opportunity

919
00:47:39,605 --> 00:47:41,405
Speaker 3: to have a look at where it was.

920
00:47:41,445 --> 00:47:42,685
Speaker 2: And I was, actually, you know what.

921
00:47:43,565 --> 00:47:45,485
Speaker 3: That was probably I've been a little caught up in

922
00:47:45,525 --> 00:47:47,765
Speaker 3: a bit of this business, and it gave me an

923
00:47:47,765 --> 00:47:50,085
Speaker 3: opportunity to have a bit of reflection and a bit

924
00:47:50,125 --> 00:47:50,765
Speaker 3: of space on that.

925
00:47:50,845 --> 00:47:52,125
Speaker 2: And so I'm grateful that you did that.

926
00:47:54,205 --> 00:47:57,125
Speaker 1: I can't remember it, but thank you. I thank you

927
00:47:57,165 --> 00:47:58,485
Speaker 1: for the thank you.

928
00:47:58,485 --> 00:47:59,205
Speaker 2: No, it's important.

929
00:47:59,285 --> 00:48:00,965
Speaker 3: It's important that we need to be able to change

930
00:48:00,965 --> 00:48:02,325
Speaker 3: our minds because at the time I wouldn't have said

931
00:48:02,365 --> 00:48:04,605
Speaker 3: it on air if I didn't believe it right, But

932
00:48:04,845 --> 00:48:07,245
Speaker 3: when you spoke about it, I've kind of had a

933
00:48:07,245 --> 00:48:08,525
Speaker 3: bit of a think about it, and you know what,

934
00:48:08,525 --> 00:48:09,165
Speaker 3: that was a bit of.

935
00:48:09,165 --> 00:48:13,525
Speaker 1: A oh oh, it's here.

936
00:48:15,045 --> 00:48:17,325
Speaker 4: Being a puppet for the patriarchy is not something he

937
00:48:17,325 --> 00:48:20,285
Speaker 4: can call anybody else out on because he works on

938
00:48:20,325 --> 00:48:22,485
Speaker 4: a show called The Bachelor that pimps out a dozen

939
00:48:22,525 --> 00:48:25,485
Speaker 4: young women to one man who's often a stripper, not always.

940
00:48:26,045 --> 00:48:27,925
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, we were.

941
00:48:31,125 --> 00:48:31,605
Speaker 2: Were we?

942
00:48:31,685 --> 00:48:34,525
Speaker 4: I was also wearing a felt hat, mind you, I

943
00:48:34,605 --> 00:48:35,925
Speaker 4: was filling three hours a dance.

944
00:48:36,165 --> 00:48:42,245
Speaker 1: Was wow, that's amazing and we could have we could

945
00:48:42,245 --> 00:48:42,805
Speaker 1: have just done it.

946
00:48:42,885 --> 00:48:45,525
Speaker 4: On top of a top of likening the reality show

947
00:48:45,525 --> 00:48:49,165
Speaker 4: to one that pimps out young women, Langbrook slammed Gudsburg

948
00:48:49,245 --> 00:48:53,245
Speaker 4: for calling his co host a puppet. You cannot Gunsburg

949
00:48:53,325 --> 00:48:56,245
Speaker 4: accuse anybody else of being a puppet, a tool, or

950
00:48:56,285 --> 00:48:58,365
Speaker 4: any part of the patriarchy as long as you are

951
00:48:58,445 --> 00:49:02,125
Speaker 4: this person. The show then proceeded to play a snippet

952
00:49:02,125 --> 00:49:04,285
Speaker 4: ofhs audio from the Batchel.

953
00:49:05,405 --> 00:49:08,085
Speaker 2: And so wow, I'm grateful you.

954
00:49:08,605 --> 00:49:12,005
Speaker 4: Oh things got hated between you and act and on Thursday,

955
00:49:12,285 --> 00:49:15,805
Speaker 4: when Acting referred to a listener's boss as mail, Oh

956
00:49:15,845 --> 00:49:19,165
Speaker 4: my goodness, I don't remember any of these well, but.

957
00:49:19,085 --> 00:49:20,845
Speaker 2: I love I'm grateful that you.

958
00:49:21,845 --> 00:49:24,725
Speaker 3: Isn't that wonderful how memory works for one, But I'm

959
00:49:24,725 --> 00:49:27,765
Speaker 3: also I'm just grateful that I'm grateful that you did

960
00:49:27,765 --> 00:49:30,685
Speaker 3: that all right, because we're not always going to get

961
00:49:30,685 --> 00:49:32,405
Speaker 3: it right. And as we said at the start of

962
00:49:32,405 --> 00:49:35,125
Speaker 3: this conversation, you know, I've chosen to put myself out

963
00:49:35,325 --> 00:49:38,565
Speaker 3: into the public and at the of what the public

964
00:49:38,605 --> 00:49:39,725
Speaker 3: think about what it is that I do.

965
00:49:40,045 --> 00:49:43,885
Speaker 2: Some of those things I take and go nothing to

966
00:49:43,925 --> 00:49:44,285
Speaker 2: do with me.

967
00:49:44,885 --> 00:49:47,605
Speaker 3: Some of those things I go, you know what, You've

968
00:49:47,605 --> 00:49:50,005
Speaker 3: got something there and I might need to I might

969
00:49:50,045 --> 00:49:51,965
Speaker 3: need to check that. And so I'm grateful that you

970
00:49:52,005 --> 00:49:55,205
Speaker 3: did that because it started me on a different way

971
00:49:55,245 --> 00:49:56,045
Speaker 3: of thinking about things.

972
00:49:56,205 --> 00:49:56,645
Speaker 2: So thank you.

973
00:49:56,765 --> 00:50:03,765
Speaker 1: Well, I'm also checking myself. You know, you've got to

974
00:50:03,845 --> 00:50:04,645
Speaker 1: check the checker.

975
00:50:05,245 --> 00:50:06,965
Speaker 3: I believe it was asked QB who said you need

976
00:50:07,005 --> 00:50:08,685
Speaker 3: to check yourself before you wreck yourself.

977
00:50:09,405 --> 00:50:15,645
Speaker 4: Believe you are right, my friend, AUVOI Osha, see you soon,

978
00:50:15,805 --> 00:50:16,325
Speaker 4: my friend.

979
00:50:20,005 --> 00:50:22,565
Speaker 1: I think it's easy to think.

980
00:50:22,405 --> 00:50:26,205
Speaker 4: Sometimes that people we see on our televisions are really

981
00:50:26,245 --> 00:50:29,565
Speaker 4: the sum of the parts that we see, and Osha

982
00:50:29,805 --> 00:50:33,125
Speaker 4: is the living embodiment of the fact that there's so

983
00:50:33,325 --> 00:50:37,525
Speaker 4: much more than what comes through the television. If you've

984
00:50:37,525 --> 00:50:41,045
Speaker 4: ever found yourself in a moment of reinvention or wondering

985
00:50:41,165 --> 00:50:45,765
Speaker 4: what comes next, I hope this conversation has been helpful

986
00:50:46,525 --> 00:50:50,805
Speaker 4: and has made you realize that you're not alone. In

987
00:50:50,845 --> 00:50:54,885
Speaker 4: that boat in the Life Vote. I'm Kate lane Brook,

988
00:50:55,205 --> 00:50:58,885
Speaker 4: host of No Filter. The executive producer is Nama Brown.

989
00:50:59,325 --> 00:51:03,605
Speaker 4: Senior producer is Bree Player, with audio production by Jacob Brown.

990
00:51:04,525 --> 00:51:07,285
Speaker 4: Thank you for listening to No Filter and I'll be

991
00:51:07,365 --> 00:51:10,685
Speaker 4: back next week with another unforgettable guest.