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Speaker 1: You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast. Mumma Mea acknowledges

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Speaker 1: the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast

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Speaker 1: is recorded on.

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Speaker 2: Hi.

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Speaker 1: I'm Claire Murphy. This is Mumma MIA's twice daily news podcast,

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Speaker 1: The Quickie. Have you ever wondered why you like the

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Speaker 1: foods you do and dislike others? Did you learn to

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Speaker 1: dislike it? Is it a part of your culture or

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Speaker 1: is it genetic? And can you overcome a food aversion?

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Speaker 1: Today we're looking at the psychology of food, why it's

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Speaker 1: so tied into our identity, and why we reject things

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Speaker 1: that are clearly the most important in keeping us alive

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Speaker 1: and healthy. But before we do that, here's the latest

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Speaker 1: from the Quickie newsroom, Wednesday, August fourteen. Forty six Aussies

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Speaker 1: have been recognized with Australian Bravery Awards for their actions

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Speaker 1: in the face of danger. One of those was Joshua Humphres,

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Speaker 1: who in March last year was taking his daughter to

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Speaker 1: school when he noticed a partially submerged bus on a

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Speaker 1: flooded causeway in the Northern Territory. He saw there were

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Speaker 1: children trapped inside, so he took his daughter out of

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Speaker 1: the car before driving his ute into the water and

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Speaker 1: helping them and the driver climb out of the front

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Speaker 1: window into the tray. He was given a commendation for

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Speaker 1: brave conduct. Other recipients include a man who saved two

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Speaker 1: men from a burning home in Melbourne and three boat

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Speaker 1: crew who saved four men in rough seas off the

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Speaker 1: coast of Tasmania. Napland literacy and numeracy test results have

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Speaker 1: remained stable, along with the entrenched gaps between boys and girls,

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Speaker 1: urban and regional students and First Nation's children. Over one

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Speaker 1: million Aussie year three five seven and nine kids sat

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Speaker 1: the test across nine thy four hundred schools. The twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty four data showing there has been no significant difference

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Speaker 1: in scores in the past two years. However, there are

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Speaker 1: significant gaps, with female students outperforming males in writing, while

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Speaker 1: boys do better in numeracy. Twenty four percent of students

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Speaker 1: from remote schools also rated as strong or exceeding, compared

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Speaker 1: to seventy point seven percent from major city schools. The

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Speaker 1: results also showed a higher propose portion of Indigenous students

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Speaker 1: need more help, with one in three testing in the

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Speaker 1: needs additional support categories compared to one in ten non

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Speaker 1: indigenous students. There was also one substantiated incident of cheating

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Speaker 1: exposed in this years naplan with a school in wa

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Speaker 1: providing inappropriate assistance. They've been counseled and are required to

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Speaker 1: show improvements in procedures in future years. Ukraine say they

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Speaker 1: have no intention of occupying territory in Russia's Curs region,

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Speaker 1: saying their major cross border incursion is simply to complicate

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Speaker 1: Russian military logistics. Ukraine officials blindsided Russia recently by pouring

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Speaker 1: thousands of troops into the Western Russian region, the surprise

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Speaker 1: operation leading to Ukraine seizing one thousand square kilometers of land. However,

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Speaker 1: Ukraine's Foreign Ministry says that unlike Russia, Ukraine does not

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Speaker 1: need other people's property, saying they're not interested in taking

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Speaker 1: the territory, but they want to protect the lives of

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Speaker 1: their people in occupying areas where Russia has launched more

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Speaker 1: than two thousand cross border strikes since June. Russian President

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Speaker 1: of la Radimir Putin has vound to hit back with

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Speaker 1: a worthy response, accusing Ukraine's allies of helping them invade.

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Speaker 1: Hallie Barry says she'll be spending her fifty eighth birthday

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Speaker 1: today fighting for women's health. Speaking to Extra TV, Barry

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Speaker 1: says she'll be in West Virginia with Senator Shelley Capedo

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Speaker 1: doing advocacy work for her menopause bill. For her August

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Speaker 1: fourteenth birthday, She says she can't think of a better

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Speaker 1: way to spend the day than fighting for all women.

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Speaker 1: Barry has been advocating for better menopause education when she

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Speaker 1: realized four years ago that she was perimenopausal and knew

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Speaker 1: very little about the symptoms, impacts, and treatments. The oscar

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Speaker 1: Winna says her push to destigmatize the idea of menopause

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Speaker 1: and take the idea of shame out of it is

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Speaker 1: her second act, always asking herself how she can better

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Speaker 1: change the world for women and get them the health

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Speaker 1: care they deserve during this very important time in their lives.

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Speaker 1: That's what's happening in the world today. Next, the psychology

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Speaker 1: of food. While we like what we like, and you

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Speaker 1: can't tell us otherwise. You might have heard this before.

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Speaker 1: But if you're listening to this right now and you

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Speaker 1: hate coriander with a passion, then you and I are

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Speaker 1: genetically different.

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Speaker 3: Each of you has one letter different on chromosome eleven.

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Speaker 3: On chromosome eleven, there is a gene. If you change

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Speaker 3: one letter in this gene, then coriander will suddenly taste

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Speaker 3: like soap. And before all the others now think what

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Speaker 3: mutants in the audience? Turns out we are the mutants.

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Speaker 3: They have tested DNA of prehistoric men. Turns out the

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Speaker 3: prehistoric men did not like coriander. There must have been

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Speaker 3: a mutation somewhere in history, and this mutation spread out

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Speaker 3: over the human race because of the evolutionary advantage of

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Speaker 3: tie takeaway food.

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Speaker 1: And let's leaving Shea a Belgian comedian, physicist and science communicator.

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Speaker 1: He was long thought that it dislike for Korean and

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Speaker 1: was inherited. A twin study found eighty percent of identical

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Speaker 1: twins share the same preference, while in fraternal twins, who

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Speaker 1: only share around half their genome, the result was a

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Speaker 1: shared preference only half the time. But what about all

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Speaker 1: the other foods we collectively like or dislike? Is it

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Speaker 1: also genetic? Is a lone response or part of our

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Speaker 1: cultural heritage? We asked the Muma mea off as what

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Speaker 1: foods they disliked and why the response has varied from

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Speaker 1: it being a textural thing.

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Speaker 2: I cannot do raw salmon or any kind of raw fish.

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Speaker 4: I can't get over its fleshy texture.

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Speaker 3: It's fluppy and fleshy and yuck.

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Speaker 4: My taste budds are not fancy or refined enough for

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Speaker 4: pat The meat pays to the jelly.

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Speaker 2: Desain it out loud is undoing me.

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Speaker 1: To childhood memories butter and or margarine. I have this

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Speaker 1: core memory of putting butter with honey when I was

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Speaker 1: like eight, and now I can't have it on anything.

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Speaker 2: It's just disgusting. I can't start anything with almond in it.

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Speaker 2: I think it's from when may Naa put it off

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Speaker 2: of almond and our cupcakes when I was younger, and

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Speaker 2: I ate it and I thought there was something wrong

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Speaker 2: with them, and I absolutely hated.

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Speaker 1: It, and for some it was just the idea of it.

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Speaker 2: I can't eat brawnze or any types of.

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Speaker 1: Crustaceans because in my mind they're like the insects of

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Speaker 1: the sea. It really freaks me out for what's really

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Speaker 1: happening when we connect the dots between our brains and

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Speaker 1: our mouths. Why is the texture of something a boring

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Speaker 1: to one person and loved by the next why is

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Speaker 1: the combination of mint and chocolate a crime against humanity? Okay,

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Speaker 1: got a little personal there with that one. Doctor Tetiana

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Speaker 1: Rocks is an accredited practicing dietitian and director of Food

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Speaker 1: and Mood Center Academy at Deacon University. Doctor, why do

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Speaker 1: we all like and dislike so many things differently? Can

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Speaker 1: we track it back to something like coriander where there's

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Speaker 1: a genetic link to it all.

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Speaker 4: It's a great question to start that way conversation, Claire,

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Speaker 4: and they have to say straight away if I'm okay

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Speaker 4: to use a personal story. I grew up strongly disliking carrinder,

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Speaker 4: and now I can add carrinder anywhere. I would add

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Speaker 4: that to my coffee if I can. So it just

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Speaker 4: shows you that we all have different preferences, and these

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Speaker 4: preferences can change. So we eat or don't eat certain

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Speaker 4: food because we like, dislike them because we're hungry, because

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Speaker 4: we used to eating them, or just because they in

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Speaker 4: front of us. A lot of things can actually impact

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Speaker 4: our perception of foods or textures, and all these vary

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Speaker 4: among individuals and with time as well. We might be

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Speaker 4: growing up disliking or strongly liking certain foods, but then

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Speaker 4: they just move away from our webplates or moving into

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Speaker 4: our webplates, and that's EASi okase. So usually people enjoy

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Speaker 4: or dislike certain foods due to say, sensory sensitivity.

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Speaker 2: So people have.

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Speaker 4: Different thresholds or sensory stimuli. Some might be more sensitive

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Speaker 4: to certain textures or tastes or smells, and they might

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Speaker 4: find them overwhelming or even unpleasant. We know, for example,

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Speaker 4: that people who have heightened tactile sensitivity might find slimy

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Speaker 4: or gritty or spongy textures quite distressing, even not just

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Speaker 4: disliking them. Lots of kids don't like save mushrooms because

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Speaker 4: they say, oh, they're quite spongy, and it can change

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Speaker 4: when it's come to kids. Peaky eating is actually quite

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Speaker 4: prevalent and almost normal because kads exploring a lot of

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Speaker 4: things in the world. There's a lot of things to

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Speaker 4: learn about and food and different tastes and textures and

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Speaker 4: smells and even side of food. It's just another things

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Speaker 4: kids learning, and sometimes they just need time to get

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Speaker 4: used to certain foods or to learn to like them

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Speaker 4: or how to eat them.

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Speaker 1: Tatiana. How much of that is learned behavior from parents

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Speaker 1: or cares, So say if I hate something and I

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Speaker 1: make that very obvious, would be more likely that my

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Speaker 1: child will also dislike that food.

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Speaker 4: Absolutely, and study do show that kids model behavior from parents, okay, givers.

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Speaker 4: So you know, if we all eat say certain food

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Speaker 4: save rice and chicken, and we don't have any green

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Speaker 4: vegetables there whatsoever because mom or whoever is the main

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Speaker 4: cook in a family dislike green vegetables, but we make

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Speaker 4: a point of serving some broccoli to kids because well

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Speaker 4: we know green vegetables are good for you. Kids probably

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Speaker 4: less likely to eat or enjoy green vegetables because they

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Speaker 4: learn the behavior from adults. So it's probably the best

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Speaker 4: way to teach your children how eat wide variety foods,

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Speaker 4: which of course is very important for our overall well being,

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Speaker 4: is to eat them yourself. And if you dislike certain foods,

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Speaker 4: it's okay as well, we'll like it that Particularly in

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Speaker 4: Australia and most of us have a lot of choice

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Speaker 4: when it's come to foods, so surely we can find

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Speaker 4: things we like more than others.

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Speaker 1: How much of that, too, is also social conditioning. Just

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Speaker 1: for example, Brussels sprouts have been made out to be

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Speaker 1: the villain in many pop culture moments. So it's hailed

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Speaker 1: as like the worst vegetable in the world. And even

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Speaker 1: if people have never ever eaten a Brussels sprout, they

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Speaker 1: will commonly say the Brussels sprouts are the worst vegetable

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Speaker 1: in the world. So how much of a role does

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Speaker 1: social conditioning as us as a culture play on foods

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Speaker 1: that we like and dislike.

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Speaker 4: It's a great question, Claire, because cultural norms or society

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Speaker 4: norms is another very important factor which impacts what we

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Speaker 4: like or dislike. And it is quite interesting how green

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Speaker 4: vegetables like Brussels press being made absolute villains. And you're

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Speaker 4: right to say that many people actually did not even

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Speaker 4: tried Brussels sprouts or try to like them before they

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Speaker 4: decide that they don't really like Brussels sprouts. Look, it's

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Speaker 4: come also to our taste buds and our taste preferences.

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Speaker 4: So we taste certain foods due to those specific little

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Speaker 4: factors on our tent. We call them simply taste buds.

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Speaker 4: Some people have more taste buds than others. We sometimes

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Speaker 4: call them super tasters. We understand that having more taste

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Speaker 4: buds will make for some people certain flavors more intense.

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Speaker 4: All five tastes. We have sweet, salty, bita or mummy

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Speaker 4: and sour supertastes of people with small taste buds can

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Speaker 4: be more sensitive to all of them to some extent. Again,

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Speaker 4: there's non c clear rules or clear answers. We all

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Speaker 4: have ability in us to like different green vegetables, even

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Speaker 4: if sometimes they taste a little bitter or a little

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Speaker 4: sour to us. There's lots of things we can do

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Speaker 4: to prepare food in a way we like. We can

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Speaker 4: add sauces we like more, we can add spices, and

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Speaker 4: we can try even different temperatures of food because we

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Speaker 4: know that would impact the way we process that food.

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Speaker 1: What about food trauma Teitiana? Because I understand there might

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Speaker 1: be some resistance to eat a food again if say,

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Speaker 1: you choked on it the last time you ate it.

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Speaker 1: Or for example, in my personal case, when I was

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Speaker 1: a kid, I got food poisoning and it was a

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Speaker 1: dish they had mushrooms in it. When I threw up,

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Speaker 1: the mushrooms were still kind of intact, and just seeing

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Speaker 1: that made me not eat mushrooms for probably two decades

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Speaker 1: after that. How much of world does food trauma play

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Speaker 1: in us being selective of our food likes and dislikes.

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Speaker 4: Very unpleasant experience. Hey, so previous negative past experiences with

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Speaker 4: specific foods can lead to different food restrictions or peaky

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Speaker 4: eating or selective eating. If someone have had a bad

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Speaker 4: experience with particular food, like you and poor mushrooms, they

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Speaker 4: might develop a strong dislike for even if it's generally

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Speaker 4: well liked by others. So some people might dislike biscuits because,

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Speaker 4: as you mentioned, maybe as a child or even as

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Speaker 4: an adult, they choked on a biscuit and forever being

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Speaker 4: kind of remembered with that unpleasant feeling. So sometimes, although

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Speaker 4: we have to say it's never set in storm, you

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Speaker 4: might start liking mushrooms with time clears or don't give

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Speaker 4: up on them please.

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Speaker 1: Well, that leads me to my next question, because there's

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Speaker 1: some research to suggest that overcoming food dislikes is actually

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Speaker 1: really quite difficult, and they're well set when you're young

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Speaker 1: and can persist into your adulthood. How difficult is it

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Speaker 1: to overcome disliking a food for whatever the reason.

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Speaker 4: It's very much depends what a reason you have food.

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Speaker 4: Stop disliking the food if you just like to try

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Speaker 4: it and take it easy and maybe just be a

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Speaker 4: bit more adventurous with your food. It doesn't have to

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Speaker 4: be particularly difficult for some of us, although we might

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Speaker 4: require special help. So in Australia we have a professional

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Speaker 4: call accredited practice in dietitians, people just like me, who

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Speaker 4: trained to help other people to figure out their relationship

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Speaker 4: with food basically or what they eat, what they like,

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Speaker 4: and what they dislike. So for some people maybe refering

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Speaker 4: to a specialist dietitian is a good idea. But if

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Speaker 4: you have specific issues, or if you worried that your

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Speaker 4: certain food disci likes may be becoming destructive in your life,

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Speaker 4: you know, if it impacts your social life. Maybe you

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Speaker 4: not feel in particularly well physically and you know it

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Speaker 4: might be because you're not eating well. Starting conversation with

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Speaker 4: your health provider is a great first step. So talk

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Speaker 4: to your GP. If you're concern about your children, talk

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Speaker 4: to your community knows. Find yourself a credited practice in

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Speaker 4: dietitian to discuss that with many things are possible, and

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Speaker 4: there's a lot of variety of food you can subsidize

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Speaker 4: specific say vegetables you don't like or textures in food

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Speaker 4: you don't like.

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Speaker 1: Just finally, Tetiana, why do we turn to food as

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Speaker 1: a coping mechanism. What is it doing to us when

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Speaker 1: we psychologically feel the need to feel our bellies? What

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Speaker 1: is it doing?

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Speaker 4: Look, food is wonderful. Food is the first scene, most

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Speaker 4: simple way for humans to seek comfort, to seek that

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Speaker 4: feeling as you use, say, satisfaction, full baillies with yummy,

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Speaker 4: tasty food. Usually food is associated with wonderful experiences. You know,

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Speaker 4: we ate with our family together, we love our birthday cakes,

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Speaker 4: we enjoy it barbecue with friends. So food gives us

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Speaker 4: a lot of positive sensations apart from simply, you know,

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Speaker 4: reducing our physical hanger. So it's quite normal to enjoy food.

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Speaker 4: There's nothing wrong with enjoying food, with preparing something you like,

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Speaker 4: sitting down by yourself with friends, with family, and actually

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Speaker 4: liking it and finding some kind of comfort and satisfaction

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Speaker 4: and food. When we see comfort from food and only

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Speaker 4: from food, that can become a little bit destructive in

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Speaker 4: our life. So again, if we find that we continuously

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Speaker 4: use food as a comfort, that's my be time to

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Speaker 4: talk to someone and explore why is it sol Because

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Speaker 4: there's a lot of other comforting things we can be doing.

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Speaker 4: We can be taking a bus, going for a walk

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Speaker 4: with a friend you know, listening to the music. It

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Speaker 4: doesn't have to be food all the time.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for taking some time to feed your mind with

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Speaker 1: us today. And if you or someone you know is

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Speaker 1: struggling with food in a way that is impacting your

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Speaker 1: life in a negative way, please reach out for help.

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Speaker 1: You can call the Butterfly Foundation on one eight hundred

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Speaker 1: double three four sixty seven three. That's one eight hundred

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Speaker 1: edy Hope, or you can chat online or send an

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Speaker 1: email through their website Butterfly dot org dot au, forward

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Speaker 1: slash get support. The quickie is produced by me Claire

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Speaker 1: Murphy and our senior producer Taylor Strato, with audio production

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Speaker 1: by Tomline two