Speaker 1: You're listening to Amma Mia podcast. Hello, it's Holly Wayne
Speaker 1: right here.
Speaker 2: One of the great things about Unleashed is how much
Speaker 2: you've fallen for the hosts, these brilliant, brilliant women. And
Speaker 2: if you love Bruna Papenrea, her stories, her opinions, her
Speaker 2: very casual. Oh yes, when I was making Wild with
Speaker 2: Reese Witherspoon energy, I have something just for you because
Speaker 2: before Bruna pap Andrea was Ununleashed, I interviewed her for
Speaker 2: mid and yes we know she's one of the most
Speaker 2: successful Australians in Hollywood. She's the super producer behind Gone Girl, Wild,
Speaker 2: Big Little Lies and Strife. But there's a part of
Speaker 2: Bruna's story you might not know so much about. Looking
Speaker 2: at what a power house she is, you would never
Speaker 2: guess what she lives with privately. So as requested by you,
Speaker 2: more Bruna and a deeper look at the women you've
Speaker 2: come to love Ununleashed. Here is my conversation with Bruna Papenrea.
Speaker 2: What you see a capable woman that most unsurprising of things,
Speaker 2: She's got it together, she gets shit done. She's a
Speaker 2: swirl of perpetual motion, a blur of texts and chat
Speaker 2: and pinging, calendar alerts. Want something done, ask a busy woman.
Speaker 2: That's what they say. That's what you see. What you
Speaker 2: don't see is what it takes. Because the toll is invisible,
Speaker 2: and sometimes so is the pain. Some of the busiest
Speaker 2: women you know are also the ones pushing through the most.
Speaker 2: You look fine to me, people say as they observe her, moving, fixing, caring, sorting.
Speaker 2: What's underneath the unending motion for some a tactical battle
Speaker 2: with a wily enemy. The careful scheduling, the relentless appointments,
Speaker 2: a search for the latest cure, the supplements, the meds,
Speaker 2: the strict sleep rules often broken, the carefully counted spoons,
Speaker 2: portions of energy carefully spent, the payoffs, the collapse, the rebuild.
Speaker 2: By mid Often our bodies have found new and dastardly
Speaker 2: ways of getting our attention. If you won't slow down,
Speaker 2: they mutter, as our hormones rage, I will put you
Speaker 2: on your ass. But our minds they're not slowing. They're
Speaker 2: pumping creativities up. Wisdom is surging. For many, energy is
Speaker 2: returning after being handed to others for so long.
Speaker 1: We don't want to lie down, And yet.
Speaker 2: Women living with invisible quiet chronic conditions are in a
Speaker 2: constant conflict with how much their bodies must cost them.
Speaker 2: They're ambition perhaps that time with the kids, maybe, but
Speaker 2: most likely not the work, the caring. It gets done
Speaker 2: because busy driven women do, even when their bodies are shouting.
Speaker 1: Don't hello.
Speaker 2: I'm Holly Wainwright and I am mid mid life, mid family,
Speaker 2: mid strive. Today I'm talking about ambition with one of
Speaker 2: the most successful Australian women in Hollywood. But it's not
Speaker 2: a simple story because, as she might have gathered from
Speaker 2: today's introduction, Bruna pap Andrea's success and it's significant success
Speaker 2: she runs through an production company.
Speaker 1: She is the woman behind movies like Wild and Gone
Speaker 1: Girl and The.
Speaker 2: Dry, and TV shows like Big Little Lies and The Undoing,
Speaker 2: and of course Strife, which was Mia Friedman's memoir brought
Speaker 2: to life. All this success comes despite of or she
Speaker 2: might suggest, because of the fact she lives with lupus.
Speaker 2: Lupus is a chronic autoimmune disease, and like other forms
Speaker 2: of insidious invisible illnesses and conditions, it makes everything harder
Speaker 2: for Brunna, who lives in Sydney with her family now
Speaker 2: but has lived and still works all over the world.
Speaker 2: It means that some days getting out of bed is
Speaker 2: almost impossible, and every morning she wakes with pain. It
Speaker 2: means for Bruna that she has to watch her diet
Speaker 2: her stress levels. Not that easy when you employ whole
Speaker 2: crews of people and are juggling multimillion dollar budgets.
Speaker 1: That having her longed for kids was difficult.
Speaker 2: That she's always trialing new treatments, always hoping for a cure,
Speaker 2: always dreading an escalation. But the thing is, Bruna is
Speaker 2: the least self pitying person you can imagine. She is
Speaker 2: intensely driven, an enormous fun. She thinks that the things
Speaker 2: that have challenged her from a childhood growing up in
Speaker 2: housing commission to her loopus are actually.
Speaker 1: The superpowers that drive her.
Speaker 2: And the reason I was so keen to get her
Speaker 2: on the mid is because I'm fascinated by two things
Speaker 2: that Bruna is in a unique place to tell me.
Speaker 2: Does ambition dissipate or intensify in midlife when you've already
Speaker 2: achieved so much? And how do you do all that
Speaker 2: she does when you live in chronic discomfort? The last
Speaker 2: bit I knew would resonate with so many of you
Speaker 2: listening because although you might not be hanging out with
Speaker 2: movie stars in Hollywood.
Speaker 1: I don't know your life. Maybe you are.
Speaker 2: It's perfectly possible and likely considering a very large percentage
Speaker 2: of mid life women do live with a conditioned disability
Speaker 2: or illness that make sure every day a sometimes insurmountable challenge.
Speaker 1: This one is for you.
Speaker 2: Welcome to mid the irrepressible Bruna Papenrea, Bruna Holly. To
Speaker 2: prepare for this chat today, I went back and listened
Speaker 2: to the chat you did with mea on No Filter
Speaker 2: a while ago now, and we'll put a link in
Speaker 2: the show notes to it so people can listen.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was.
Speaker 2: Pre pandemic, you were living in La Still. Yeah, you
Speaker 2: had just I think finished filming Big Little Lies the
Speaker 2: first season.
Speaker 1: Wow, Yes it was. It was back then, and I
Speaker 1: think it was your first TV adaptation. Yes, right.
Speaker 2: Since that interview, I went and did my little, very
Speaker 2: in depth IMDb research. You have apparently brought around sixteen
Speaker 2: other projects all the way to the screen, which include
Speaker 2: movie like The Dry of Course, and lots more TV shows.
Speaker 2: You were saying in that interview, I want to do
Speaker 2: more of those, Yeah, and of course you have the undoing,
Speaker 2: I'm perfect, strangers, lost of Lars, balance, hut, and of
Speaker 2: course strife. Yes, the adaptation of me is bemoir. You've
Speaker 2: also moved your family back to Australia, and I'm tired
Speaker 2: just saying all of those things, which is why I
Speaker 2: wanted to talk to you about work, ambition and just
Speaker 2: leaning into it at this phase of our lives. Do
Speaker 2: you feel as ambitious now as you did at twenty five?
Speaker 1: Yes, I would say I feel more ambitious now, actually
Speaker 1: much more. I'd say I'm more ambitious in this moment
Speaker 1: in time than I've ever been. Why do you think
Speaker 1: that is? I think because I feel I mean, I've
Speaker 1: heard it talked about a lot on your show. Actually
Speaker 1: because I think what I didn't realize when I was
Speaker 1: younger is that you know, it kind of sneaks up
Speaker 1: on you, like not the knowledge that the you know,
Speaker 1: kind of institutional knowledge that you know we all learn
Speaker 1: and then carry. And I feel like I know more,
Speaker 1: I know my taste more, I know more, I have
Speaker 1: bigger relationships. So I feel really just emboldened and kind
Speaker 1: of on fire. And I think that's a sad thing
Speaker 1: about getting older. That's the good thing about getting older.
Speaker 1: But what's hard is like your body is getting older,
Speaker 1: particularly as you go into menopause, but you've never felt
Speaker 1: more clarity a vision and vision itself and creatives and
Speaker 1: so it's a strange time. I also have young children,
Speaker 1: so that's also strange at fifty three to have young children. Still.
Speaker 2: You and Iron similar boats with that. We were both
Speaker 2: late as it were. Do you think though, when you
Speaker 2: think about how your ambition and your drive has morphed,
Speaker 2: because there's no way that you would ever be who
Speaker 2: you are without having also been very ambitious.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes I was.
Speaker 2: I was ambitious from like a kid, being any kid
Speaker 2: you've talked about. You said to me or in that
Speaker 2: interview that you think part of that was your upbringing.
Speaker 2: I'm the fact that you grew up without money, in home,
Speaker 2: in public housing, a single mum, And you said that
Speaker 2: that background has made you fearless because you had nothing
Speaker 2: to lose.
Speaker 1: Yep, I still feel like that.
Speaker 2: And it's funny because some people from a similar background
Speaker 2: say the opposite. They say they're so afraid of ever
Speaker 2: being back there that it makes them risk averse.
Speaker 1: Why do you think so different for you? Yeah? I
Speaker 1: mean I understand both sides of that. I think that
Speaker 1: you know ultimately, I think that I talk about this
Speaker 1: a lot. If I was ever going to do a
Speaker 1: Ted talk, my Ted talok would be called like invisible superpower,
Speaker 1: because I think that your upbringing can be your superpower.
Speaker 1: And I think because I know the value of just
Speaker 1: not the value, but I think I'm such a believer
Speaker 1: because I came from you cannot imagine. Like if I
Speaker 1: look now and I go, how did that girl get here?
Speaker 1: I think it's kind of even I look back and go,
Speaker 1: how did that happen?
Speaker 2: When people will ask you that all the time very curiously, yeah,
Speaker 2: no they do.
Speaker 1: Do you have a simple like do you have a
Speaker 1: pat answer for that? Or not? Really? No, I mean, look,
Speaker 1: the answer I always give to young people is expose
Speaker 1: yourself and put yourself in the way of any opportunity,
Speaker 1: even if you think it's not the one that will
Speaker 1: lead you to where you want to be. But expose
Speaker 1: yourselves to as many opportunities as possible. Because you know,
Speaker 1: working in a restaurant, for instance, taught me how to communicate,
Speaker 1: you know, and how to interface with people. You know.
Speaker 1: You wouldn't think that would be a natural progression to producing,
Speaker 1: but actually it is, you know, and I think that,
Speaker 1: you know, I do think in a creative field particularly,
Speaker 1: I've never let money be my driver. I think that's
Speaker 1: the key, you know, and some things have been very
Speaker 1: successful for me. But I still make things where I
Speaker 1: invest reinvest in my entire fee because again, I'm not
Speaker 1: driven by money. I'm driven by you know, wanting to
Speaker 1: put something great and creative into the world. So, you know,
Speaker 1: I think it is a superpower I think. I mean,
Speaker 1: I worry a bit for my kids actually, because they're
Speaker 1: going to go very differently to how I grew up.
Speaker 1: You know. I remember my first you know, borroing money
Speaker 1: to buy my first thousand dollar car. I remember buying
Speaker 1: my first five thousand dollar car. I really remember buying
Speaker 1: my first brand new car and the sense of achievement
Speaker 1: I had from that. So I think that that's the
Speaker 1: kind of superpower I'm talking about. I think it drives
Speaker 1: you in a way because we're survivors, right, you have
Speaker 1: to survive. It's you know. I think it's very different
Speaker 1: when you have to make a decision based on paying
Speaker 1: bills other than you know, or just like based on
Speaker 1: sometimes people with too much money, have too many choices. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's interesting.
Speaker 2: I wanted to ask you about money because, as we've said,
Speaker 2: you talk about coming from nothing, and your work is
Speaker 2: constant risk in a way, as she just said, you know,
Speaker 2: you might have a massive success and then reinvest and
Speaker 2: then the payback in all ways is often long term.
Speaker 2: As having money now changed you and your relationship to ambition.
Speaker 1: Still don't know as much as you're thinking now I'm
Speaker 1: getting because in all seriousness, I think I have pulled
Speaker 1: so much back in because I feel like we're just
Speaker 1: you know, growing and growing the company. And I've also
Speaker 1: survived through six years of a pandemic and two massive
Speaker 1: work stoppages without letting one single person go, you know,
Speaker 1: without letting a staff member go, which was you know,
Speaker 1: probably the most I would say, business wise, the most
Speaker 1: stressful few years in my life.
Speaker 2: Does that say something about your priorities that you were like,
Speaker 2: we're keeping everybody together and we're keeping these projects moving
Speaker 2: rather than rationalization.
Speaker 1: Shit, this is scary. Yeah, I think it's too Bactually
Speaker 1: not just me. I mean Steve is my partner, my husband,
Speaker 1: and my co founder, and he and I I cut
Speaker 1: from exactly the same cloth. We I think would both
Speaker 1: give our friends our last dollar if they needed it.
Speaker 1: Like we are just both like cut from that cloth,
Speaker 1: where you know, if there is a need, then we
Speaker 1: can help in any way we can. So I think
Speaker 1: there's that. But also I think I definitely have restructured
Speaker 1: things a bit in the last few years. I've definitely,
Speaker 1: as I've gotten older, kind of taken AM one thousand
Speaker 1: four view, and I have gotten a little bit to
Speaker 1: the point where I'm like anyone who runs a business.
Speaker 1: I mean, I just have so much respect for anyone
Speaker 1: who runs a business because I think until you do
Speaker 1: the stress of, like you know, just maintaining and paying people.
Speaker 1: So and I definitely do feel like sometimes, you know,
Speaker 1: through some of the more difficult times, I have worked
Speaker 1: to pay other people when I'm not paying myself, and
Speaker 1: that you know, that can just put an enormous amount
Speaker 1: of stress on your own life. And we are the
Speaker 1: lucky ones, like we have not stopped filming through any
Speaker 1: of these periods. Constant adaptation, right, yeah, yeah, rules, yes,
Speaker 1: And that's I think partly what I mean by the superpower.
Speaker 1: When COVID hit, I feel like I was okay because
Speaker 1: I was like Okay, well what do we do? How
Speaker 1: do we? You know? We you know, we started a
Speaker 1: fund to raise some money for cruise. We raised a
Speaker 1: million dollars for crews who couldn't work. We were able
Speaker 1: to come to a straighter and work. Steve and I
Speaker 1: are both very flexible and very adaptable, and that's the
Speaker 1: one thing I've realized in business, you just have to
Speaker 1: be you have to be flexible. And in fact, that's
Speaker 1: just something parenthood, all of it, all of it. Health
Speaker 1: do just have to be flexible. Have you ever been
Speaker 1: burnt out? Oh? Yeah, well you know, yes, yes, yes
Speaker 1: you have. I mean, I think the problem with me
Speaker 1: is that this is again I'm just I'm going to say,
Speaker 1: I'm such a fan of your podcast because I've there's
Speaker 1: so many touch points for me, and I think one
Speaker 1: of the biggest ones is realizing that just at the
Speaker 1: point you kind of feel like you know, are just
Speaker 1: getting started, you are dealing with you know, not me
Speaker 1: so much in this moment, but like I have so
Speaker 1: many friends dealing with aging parents, parents who are dying.
Speaker 1: I'm also dealing with, you know, a pretty extreme health condition,
Speaker 1: and I'm dealing with two eleven year olds and also
Speaker 1: running a business. So yes, because I'm a very high
Speaker 1: functioning person with lupus. And every time I meet another
Speaker 1: high functioning person or meet them, even when I hear
Speaker 1: about one, you know, Selena Gomez, you know, one of
Speaker 1: the Willen's sisters. You know, it gives me. It just
Speaker 1: kind of makes me feel good because I'm like, well,
Speaker 1: they can do it. So yeah, sometimes I will just crash,
Speaker 1: and just because if I'm not looking after myself, which
Speaker 1: is crucial and as women, I think we do often.
Speaker 1: I think there's some crazy stat that women go to
Speaker 1: the doctor and look after themselves so much less after
Speaker 1: they have children. We just prioritize things in a different way.
Speaker 1: So I think all that combined with perimenopause and then menopause, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's been that. Lupus is also which I've really found
Speaker 1: in those years. It's really triggered for me by hormonal changes. Right,
Speaker 1: So pregnancy, most people go into remission. I didn't. I
Speaker 1: was one of the unlucky ones that it got worse
Speaker 1: through my twin pregnancy at forty one. And then of
Speaker 1: course menopause brings on a whole lot of other such challenges.
Speaker 2: I want to ask you about what that looks like, right,
Speaker 2: because you have said, you know, you have tried lots
Speaker 2: of different treatments. Let's explain a little bit for people
Speaker 2: what lupus is if.
Speaker 1: They don't know. You were diagnosed with it in about
Speaker 1: twenty ten, Is that right? Exactly? There was diagnosed literally
Speaker 1: days before I got married. That's how I always remember.
Speaker 1: And what led you to that? Like what was had? Yeah,
Speaker 1: so I was having a lot of pains in my
Speaker 1: hands and feet that I couldn't explain. So I was
Speaker 1: having my hands X rayed and I was having my
Speaker 1: feed x ray and you know those people who pushed
Speaker 1: through things usually like yeah, because I do think I
Speaker 1: actually have a pretty high pain tolerance. But it was
Speaker 1: very consistent. I mean, that's when you realize what loopers is.
Speaker 1: You realize it's just very consistent. It's like, you know,
Speaker 1: the closest thing that people will understand is the you know,
Speaker 1: the symptoms of mimic rheumatoidithritis. So I was X raying
Speaker 1: all these things and nothing was showing up. And finally
Speaker 1: they just kept testing, you know, various blood tests and
Speaker 1: then you know, you get enough markers and I tested
Speaker 1: positive for both this thing called an SSA marker and
Speaker 1: the Loopers marker. Then it was clear. So that's when
Speaker 1: I was kind of a to a rheumatologist. And it's
Speaker 1: so such a funny one. You know, if you watch
Speaker 1: a lot of medical TV shows, they're like, it's loopers.
Speaker 1: Like when they can't explain what it is, I'm like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, it's so funny. What cause is it?
Speaker 1: They don't really know. I can tell you what causes
Speaker 1: for me flares and to be exacerbated. It's obviously inflammation
Speaker 1: in your whole body. And when I say your whole body,
Speaker 1: like sometimes my eyes will be sore. I have inflammation
Speaker 1: on my brain. Unfortunately, I have inflammation on my heart.
Speaker 1: What does that mean? So loopers? Right now, I have
Speaker 1: non organ interfering Loopers. And what that means is like
Speaker 1: it's not interfered with organ so much that I need
Speaker 1: like a liver transplant or a kidney transplant. So you
Speaker 1: have to keep an eye on it. So when I
Speaker 1: first got diagnosed, I was getting blood work every eight weeks,
Speaker 1: say to nine weeks, just testing for everything. So one
Speaker 1: of the the you know, I suppose one of the
Speaker 1: bigger things is the inflammation of my brain which just
Speaker 1: means white matter on your brain. So it's just inflammation
Speaker 1: like like it could be in the body, can be
Speaker 1: on the brain. So basically, for me, what that means
Speaker 1: is I get a brain MRI every year to make
Speaker 1: sure that it's stable, and so far it has been stable.
Speaker 1: And then the same with the heart. I'm on a
Speaker 1: low dose statin because it's very minor, but I just
Speaker 1: have to keep a check on it. I mean, I
Speaker 1: always say to my friends, well, you know, at least
Speaker 1: if I'm ever going to get anything, they're going to
Speaker 1: find it because I get checked a lot, and I'm
Speaker 1: pretty I'm pretty good now about being religious about getting checked.
Speaker 2: When that first happened to you and you were your
Speaker 2: careers in full flight, You're about to get married, was
Speaker 2: there ever a moment where you went, oh, my god,
Speaker 2: I'm going to have to stop, like I'm going to
Speaker 2: have this is going to stop me from doing the
Speaker 2: things I want to do.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think so. I mean it definitely, I
Speaker 1: still get freaked out about it. It's still kind of
Speaker 1: I'm really optimistic about it because I think there's a
Speaker 1: lot of great research and I think there will be
Speaker 1: a cure.
Speaker 2: In my lifetime. Do you take you obviously, I know
Speaker 2: you've tried heaps.
Speaker 1: No, I don't take anything right now. No. For a
Speaker 1: very short amount of time, I took pred in the
Speaker 1: zone and then for me personally, it helps the symptoms,
Speaker 1: but it doesn't cure you. So I felt like for
Speaker 1: me that the long term use of steroids was more
Speaker 1: of a negative. And what I found for me was
Speaker 1: that if I ate kind of an anti inflammatory diet
Speaker 1: and if I exercised, and if I kept my stress
Speaker 1: levels down, that I could keep it under control. Stress
Speaker 1: levels down exactly. It's actually the worst.
Speaker 2: I can't imagine that the stress levels that we were
Speaker 2: just discussing, the people you employ, the money, the high stakes.
Speaker 2: I don't think that like working in Hollywood has ever
Speaker 2: been considered.
Speaker 1: Well, in a weird way, I think that that stresses.
Speaker 1: I would say for me and other people I know
Speaker 1: with Loper's And I know if you stress is the biggest,
Speaker 1: you know, kind of a fender and biggest stress drives
Speaker 1: up your blood pressure, blood pressure, you know, is it
Speaker 1: really puts me in danger for certain things? So my
Speaker 1: blood pressure. So I actually I think I reached a
Speaker 1: certain point. I would say not not when I got diagnosed,
Speaker 1: but I think within the line five years where I
Speaker 1: just don't stress this small stuff anymore. And I think
Speaker 1: that's exactly how I started off saying that. I think
Speaker 1: that in a way, as you get older, you learn
Speaker 1: that the smaller stuff doesn't matter and you can't change things.
Speaker 1: My husband's very good at reminding me, particularly in Hollywood,
Speaker 1: when you know, look, it's none of it's personal, number one.
Speaker 1: You know, an actor's availability, the stress on their lives,
Speaker 1: whether a filmmaker can do it, whether someone's going to
Speaker 1: give you the money to make something. You know, it's
Speaker 1: not personal. It's business. And so I really, I think
Speaker 1: learned to put that in perspective. And so I've been
Speaker 1: pretty good about keeping my stress under control. But more
Speaker 1: recently i've you know, I'm such a fan of It's like,
Speaker 1: you know, years ago, when like everyone was eating kale
Speaker 1: and you're like, did k We'll get a publicist, or
Speaker 1: like suddenly it was gogieberries and you're like, did you know?
Speaker 1: So the most recent thing we're all talking about, which
Speaker 1: has been a game changer for me is infrared saunas
Speaker 1: and confin.
Speaker 2: I was going to ask you, what, yeah, what your
Speaker 2: sort of routine is look like this is new. And
Speaker 2: also having lived in LA for a long time, I'm
Speaker 2: sure that you also like you're exposed to a lot
Speaker 2: of really interesting therapy is and every famous person's podcast
Speaker 2: I listened to, they're doing a lot of things every year.
Speaker 2: So tell me about the routines that help you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I was lucky enough, and I do think
Speaker 1: and in fact, I would love to see Australia open
Speaker 1: a clinic like this. There is a clinic that I
Speaker 1: discovered really early into my loopers called a Tune and
Speaker 1: it's an auto It's a clinic only for autoimmune diseases
Speaker 1: and they believe in not just the scientific based medications,
Speaker 1: but they had a full time nutritionist on staff. They
Speaker 1: will tell you to meditate, They will tell you maybe
Speaker 1: it's right for you to have a more pescatarian diet
Speaker 1: for your condition, Like they really look at the whole picture,
Speaker 1: which for me, I'm very much a whole picture person.
Speaker 1: Was a game changer, So I don't think they told
Speaker 1: me about the efforts. I started hearing a lot about
Speaker 1: how good cold plunges were for inflammation, So this is
Speaker 1: new to me. I'm not afraid to talk about one
Speaker 1: of the things that was really starting to worry me.
Speaker 1: I really was finding it hard through menopause to lose weight.
Speaker 1: And unfortunately for me, having too much weight on and
Speaker 1: I'm talking about I had, I have twenty five kilos.
Speaker 1: Too much weight on was causing my inflammation levels to
Speaker 1: really go up, was causing me to be pre diabetic.
Speaker 1: I could not afford that. So I did try Munjaro
Speaker 1: and I take one of the weight loss injections, and
Speaker 1: that's obviously safe for you to take, very safe. My
Speaker 1: automate doctor was like a big proponent of it, and
Speaker 1: it was it had such a fast impact on my
Speaker 1: loopers markers, just my inflammatory levels. So I did lose.
Speaker 1: I've lost probably the last time an the twenty kilos.
Speaker 1: That's game changing. Yeah, yeah, game changing, game changing for
Speaker 1: like all my numbers were better, Like just my cholesterol levels,
Speaker 1: everything was better. Can I ask you, Patty question about it?
Speaker 1: Do you still eat food? Yeah? You do? Yeah? Do
Speaker 1: you enjoy it? Yeah? So it's not like for me, No,
Speaker 1: I didn't. I will admit I tried a zebec first
Speaker 1: and I just I just found that didn't make me
Speaker 1: feel good. And I was like, you know, I don't
Speaker 1: know about this, so and I do think it's every
Speaker 1: it's really specific to each individual. For me, the majaru
Speaker 1: was really good, and you know, there was almost no
Speaker 1: side effects. I just I think I ate less. I
Speaker 1: mean for me, I would just get fuller. But yes,
Speaker 1: I still one hundred per eat food and enjoyed it,
Speaker 1: and in fact, it gave me a ton of energy.
Speaker 1: I would say, that's good. And yeah. So and then
Speaker 1: the second thing I've been doing and discovered is infrared
Speaker 1: saunas and cold pungas, which this is I would say
Speaker 1: in the last I've discovered this in the last two
Speaker 1: months and now I'm almost I'm a little bit addicted.
Speaker 1: I've done three or four in the last week. Wow.
Speaker 1: So how does it like?
Speaker 2: I heard you say that you with your loop as
Speaker 2: you wake up in pain.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And there'll be a lot of people who are listening
Speaker 2: to this who have some kind of chronic illness.
Speaker 1: Yeah, a lot of women.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I'm sure that you and they know things
Speaker 2: that I don't know about what it's like to push
Speaker 2: through that every day. So I would love you to
Speaker 2: tell me, like a little bit about the routines, the
Speaker 2: things you have to think about in your day that
Speaker 2: I don't have to think about as someone who isn't
Speaker 2: doing Yeah, no.
Speaker 1: It is. It's the people that I know with it.
Speaker 1: We talk about this all the time. I mean, I
Speaker 1: think the hard thing for a lot of people withought
Speaker 1: immune is like they're invisible illnesses in the sense that
Speaker 1: you can't even describe it. Someone said, well, what's the pain,
Speaker 1: Like I go, I just want someone to stretch my
Speaker 1: body from the inside out, like you just want someone
Speaker 1: to stretch you. And I get a lot of massages
Speaker 1: and sometimes they work and sometimes they don't.
Speaker 2: But we literally plan your diary around the things you
Speaker 2: have to do for your health. More recently, as but
Speaker 2: I've been, like many people, particularly women, I've been terrible
Speaker 2: at it, you know, I've really you know, I think
Speaker 2: the other thing that I have to navigate, particularly since
Speaker 2: deciding to be in Australia is travel. I mean, I
Speaker 2: think I've been to Europe seven times this year. I mean,
Speaker 2: you know, so a lot of plane trips. So I
Speaker 2: haven't been as good at prioritizing it in a way
Speaker 2: that I need to. So, yeah, I need to start
Speaker 2: getting up, but I mean I get up very early,
Speaker 2: but I kind of I really understand why those people
Speaker 2: who are really successful get up a five A. I
Speaker 2: think five am is the key where you have enough
Speaker 2: time to do all the things, do all the things,
Speaker 2: and you know, and I'm a morning person.
Speaker 1: I love it. I'm not a night person. Yeah. So
Speaker 1: I think that's the easiest way to describe it. Is
Speaker 1: it is. The fatigue element is not as much as
Speaker 1: it all happened to me. Occasionally while I feel really
Speaker 1: fatigued and I just need to lie in bed, but
Speaker 1: very occasionally for me, it is about like that pain.
Speaker 1: And when I gave birth, it was actually the worst
Speaker 1: time because I could not get up with my children
Speaker 1: in the night. I just wasn't capable. I needed sleep.
Speaker 1: I couldn't survive. And so my husband did it. And
Speaker 1: he has really been that person who has, you know,
Speaker 1: kind of covered nights for they're eleven and he still
Speaker 1: does yeah, yeah, and he knows that that's yeah, and
Speaker 1: he knows what I'm having a bad day.
Speaker 2: Was he a voice of when you're pushing yourself really
Speaker 2: hard and you're not prioritizing the saunas yea, the diet,
Speaker 2: whatever it is.
Speaker 1: Is he Yeah, he's he's the most annoying. He's like,
Speaker 1: you know those people who you're like, he has He
Speaker 1: was doing juice cleanses like thirty years ago when people
Speaker 1: were doing them. He was meditates, meditated for thirty years.
Speaker 1: Do you meditate? No? I was so funny. I just
Speaker 1: listened to that podcast. While you're talking of meditation. What
Speaker 1: a time I've got to meditate. I'm Auntie. Sorry, I'm
Speaker 1: going to go to the opposite. My husband meditates. I
Speaker 1: know so many for so many friends where it has
Speaker 1: changed their life. It is I have tried. It is
Speaker 1: not for me, and I'm not even going to try
Speaker 1: and convince myself it's for me. I think what we realized.
Speaker 1: And actually, when I listened to the Catherine May podcast,
Speaker 1: you did Yes, I love love my favorite of the
Speaker 1: podcast because everything she said, I was like, yes, Yeah, she's.
Speaker 2: The author of A Beautiful Girl Wintering among other things,
Speaker 2: and she was the number one person I wanted to
Speaker 2: talk to.
Speaker 1: I think she's so great. Yeah what did she say that?
Speaker 1: I think what resonated with me. And I think you
Speaker 1: took a lot about this too, is like for her,
Speaker 1: it's cooking for me, it's cooking a little bit too
Speaker 1: for you. It might be gardening. For me, it's actually
Speaker 1: like reading travel magazines or interior magazine, something that like
Speaker 1: I would never just take the time to kind of
Speaker 1: switch off and do so I it's been with my girlfriends,
Speaker 1: you know, taking time to actually just do something that
Speaker 1: has nothing to do with children or work. So I
Speaker 1: do think that we find different things. But I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't want to quiteen my mind. I mean, I
Speaker 1: just don't. And I feel like I do have real
Speaker 1: clarity about, you know, the things that are important to
Speaker 1: me and kind of where I'm at. So for me,
Speaker 1: I don't like I don't feel I had some like
Speaker 1: you know, definitely have been depressed in my life when
Speaker 1: I was younger. I remember very clearly in my twenties,
Speaker 1: like walking as in London. I remember really clearly like
Speaker 1: I needed medication. I was like depressed. It's never happened
Speaker 1: to me again. So it was situational, situational. It was
Speaker 1: a series of events that happened. But I will say
Speaker 1: even when I had a few rough days, you know,
Speaker 1: last week, just physically I went to that I went
Speaker 1: to this place in Bondo nimbus and I jumped in
Speaker 1: that cold plunge and I'm not a person I can't
Speaker 1: even put the cold water on in the shower, but
Speaker 1: I just I've just started doing it and it made
Speaker 1: me feel like it completely reset my mood. It completely
Speaker 1: reset how I felt physically. So I'm like, oh, I
Speaker 1: found this thing that you know, I love. My husband's also,
Speaker 1: I said to you know, because like I said, everything
Speaker 1: is easy for him. He exercises religiously, he doesn't He's
Speaker 1: very disciplined. He has always prioritized. I remember when I
Speaker 1: met him and he didn't have much money. When I
Speaker 1: met him, he hadn't worked in a while, and he
Speaker 1: was still doing tons of therapy, and I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: you can't afford therapy, But he made it a priority,
Speaker 1: like he wouldn't borrow money to therapy because he knew
Speaker 1: that that is what he needed. And I have so
Speaker 1: much respect for that, you know, because it's really like saying, Okay,
Speaker 1: what do I need? What's important to me? So yes
Speaker 1: he has. He's always trying to get me to make
Speaker 1: space and time.
Speaker 2: Because it's a cliche, but it's a cliche for a reason.
Speaker 2: That women, whether they're running a big business like you are,
Speaker 2: or whether they're just trying to keep the head of
Speaker 2: a wader with jobs and kids.
Speaker 1: They always put their needs last. But it's the cliche
Speaker 1: that keeps.
Speaker 2: Coming around to hit us over the head, which is
Speaker 2: like every time you neglect that, even if it's the
Speaker 2: half an hour you spend just doing something you want
Speaker 2: to do, it will come back and back on the
Speaker 2: ass every single time your whole job.
Speaker 1: It seems to me, I'm.
Speaker 2: Not going to ask you what producers do, because I've
Speaker 2: heard lots of people ask you, and I think, but
Speaker 2: it seems to me a.
Speaker 1: Lot of decision other people's dreams come true you do.
Speaker 2: But also, you know, when you were just talking about clarity,
Speaker 2: your job, it seems to me must be a series
Speaker 2: of decisions all the time. Because you're in the role
Speaker 2: that you're in, You're getting input constantly from lots of
Speaker 2: different places. The writers want this, the actors want this,
Speaker 2: the studio I want, you want this.
Speaker 1: Yes, we're going to do that. I hear you. We're
Speaker 1: going to do that. It's being the prime minister, like
Speaker 1: a really good prime minister. I wanted to be the
Speaker 1: first female promise when I was younger.
Speaker 2: After this short break, more of my conversation with Bruna Papenrea.
Speaker 2: My image of Hollywood from the outside is that you
Speaker 2: would have to be one tough bitch, right, and being
Speaker 2: tough as a woman can be hard. But you are
Speaker 2: very warm. Whenever I've met you, you're very warm. You're
Speaker 2: very capable and direct. I've heard you say that you've
Speaker 2: kind of learned how to get what you want without
Speaker 2: being one of those bullying dickheads.
Speaker 1: Do you recognize your personality or anything. No. I think
Speaker 1: it's very Australian. I think it's I think it's why
Speaker 1: Australians actually punched well above their weight in Hollywood. I
Speaker 1: think we are very you know, we're very like kind
Speaker 1: of what you see is what you get, you know.
Speaker 1: I do think we find it hard to hide we're
Speaker 1: not you know where we work hard. I've always been
Speaker 1: that person who just really liked to have fun as well,
Speaker 1: and because I remember saying to Menela once like you
Speaker 1: could have hired anyone and women who were so much
Speaker 1: more experienced than me. I was twenty nine when he
Speaker 1: hired me, and he just said, I knew I knew
Speaker 1: it would make me laugh. I mean, I knew we'd
Speaker 1: have fun, and you know, need you cared about the
Speaker 1: creative and that is still I think how I feel
Speaker 1: like I love my job. And I think one of
Speaker 1: the things I'm not afraid to spreak truth to power.
Speaker 1: I think that's part of it. I think that is
Speaker 1: part of it. And when I say power, like the
Speaker 1: dynamics obviously, the power dynamics between me and a movie star,
Speaker 1: me and a filmmaker. You know, I've just found that
Speaker 1: like people really, certainly the partnerships I've had the brilliant novelists.
Speaker 1: Just hear the amazing le Morialtes podcast on this show.
Speaker 1: She was great. That was amazing.
Speaker 2: She also is very direct, actually in a very different way.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she's so Yeah, she's just so direct. I remember
Speaker 1: saying to her once we would you want to I
Speaker 1: hope she doesn't mind me saying this, And I was like,
Speaker 1: you know, would you consider adapting it? Or would you know,
Speaker 1: do you want to write screenplays? Because I'm always saying
Speaker 1: to novelists, do you know do you want to write screenplays?
Speaker 1: She's like, I'm just you know, I'm busy writing books.
Speaker 1: You know, she's such a novelist, you know at a
Speaker 1: core and I love us so much, but I do
Speaker 1: think that you know, I have always believed that you
Speaker 1: can be successful and inspire people and get work done,
Speaker 1: and you know, do it while being a good human being.
Speaker 1: And we don't. Really I avoid work with people who
Speaker 1: aren't anymore. I just won't. I refuse to do it.
Speaker 1: I'd rather not make things. And you know, we all
Speaker 1: say that, like, you know, well, we don't know ourshole policy.
Speaker 1: But I would even go one step further. I kind
Speaker 1: of only want to work with people I want to
Speaker 1: have a meal with. Now that you know that, I
Speaker 1: feel like we're nourishing each other in some ways. And
Speaker 1: I think the thing that I'm most proud of is
Speaker 1: my repeat relationships. And you know, because that's the thing.
Speaker 1: It's like, our industry is very transient and obviously it's
Speaker 1: very project based. So the more you can work with
Speaker 1: the same you know, networks, the same actors, the same directors,
Speaker 1: the same novelists, it's a joy. It's really a joy
Speaker 1: for me.
Speaker 2: Did you when you were a young woman wandering around
Speaker 2: in London, and as you've said, you worked for these
Speaker 2: amazing guys, legends of the business, who certainly don't fall
Speaker 2: into that category, did you ever feel like pray.
Speaker 1: No, never, No, I don't know why I never felt that.
Speaker 1: The only thing I felt, and I still feel a
Speaker 1: little bit, is that there is somewhat still of a
Speaker 1: boy's club. I think in Hollywood in terms of, like,
Speaker 1: you know, I feel like no one's handing me anything,
Speaker 1: like I have to find it, and I have to
Speaker 1: build it, and I have to sell it, Whereas there
Speaker 1: is an element of old Hollywood, a bit of a
Speaker 1: boys club where you know, you might get a call saying,
Speaker 1: come produce this, you one hundred million dollar movie, and
Speaker 1: that's that's essentially someone kind of gifting something to you,
Speaker 1: right That's because we're all My job is is to
Speaker 1: find something that and then you know, try and get
Speaker 1: someone to convince someone to spend the money and make it.
Speaker 1: So I definitely feel like there is a vestige of
Speaker 1: somewhat of a boy's club still there.
Speaker 2: And do you think you're you're an outside? Like part
Speaker 2: of your success has been that you are an outside
Speaker 2: of both in being an ausie and being a woman
Speaker 2: and not necessarily having gone to school with the right
Speaker 2: people kind of kind of although I feel very liked
Speaker 2: by the business, you know, I know a lot of
Speaker 2: the heads of the networks and studios and have really
Speaker 2: great relationships, and it always never felt like I couldn't,
Speaker 2: you know, kind of pick up the phone and have
Speaker 2: a direct conversation. And so I feel and I think
Speaker 2: that's the thing that to go back to where we started.
Speaker 2: That's kind of why I'm so ambitious now, because I
Speaker 2: think you finally get to that place where people believe
Speaker 2: in you and they believe you can execute on a
Speaker 2: vision and be responsible doing it. And so you know,
Speaker 2: that's kind of why I think I feel like I'm
Speaker 2: just getting started, because you get you know, the more
Speaker 2: experience you have, just you just get better at.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and the thing is possible right now in a way, yeah,
Speaker 1: exactly exactly.
Speaker 2: So, yeah, do you think because I want to also
Speaker 2: ask about age and experience being an advantage in lots
Speaker 2: of ways you just say and always I'm going to
Speaker 2: say in all which I love, because I think that
Speaker 2: we're often given a bit of a trick that it's
Speaker 2: not that we're somehow getting weaker rather than stronger. Can
Speaker 2: you think of a mistake you made when you were
Speaker 2: full of bravado and young that you would not make now?
Speaker 1: Well, yes, it's a few frogs I might have kissed it.
Speaker 1: I definitely might have. You know, anyone who knows me Mia, No, Yes,
Speaker 1: I think I made really good business decisions. I think
Speaker 1: that when I wasn't following my own kind of taste.
Speaker 1: When I wasn't, I'll give you an I am not
Speaker 1: really I like comedy, but I like fleabag catastrophe. I like,
Speaker 1: you know, what we perceive as dramedy. I'm not a
Speaker 1: person who likes to I don't watch broad comedic shows.
Speaker 1: It's not my personal taste. I watch a lot of drama.
Speaker 1: I watch a lot of you know, non English stuff.
Speaker 1: So I think when I've gone against my own instinct
Speaker 1: or when I've followed someone else's, they have not been
Speaker 1: success for choices. For me. They've been the kind of
Speaker 1: films you know that that didn't work out as well.
Speaker 1: And I think partly because I just didn't, they weren't
Speaker 1: I wasn't the best person to be making them. So
Speaker 1: I've gotten really much better at only pursuing things that
Speaker 1: I want to watch in some ways you know that
Speaker 1: feel kind of exciting and distinctive to me. I've been
Speaker 1: really lucky because there's been a couple of women in
Speaker 1: America have been with me almost ten years. One of
Speaker 1: them said to me recently, you're my healthiest relationship. I
Speaker 1: was like, well, we're going to We're going to change that.
Speaker 1: You're amazing, But I'm really proud of that. But I
Speaker 1: do think that sometimes, you know, it's also good to
Speaker 1: take a step back and also make changes if the
Speaker 1: chemistry is not exactly right. And sometimes you know, I've
Speaker 1: made missteps in hiring, and I think that's okay because
Speaker 1: I think everyone does that. But I think again, as
Speaker 1: you get older, you really learn to listen to that.
Speaker 1: I don't have a ton of regrets. To be honest,
Speaker 1: I'm like, if you said to me, oh, do you
Speaker 1: wish you'd your husband had children younger? I would say
Speaker 1: one hundred percent. No.
Speaker 2: Really, I was going to ask you about that, right
Speaker 2: because you and I are both old parents and in
Speaker 2: verte Thomas, I've got it to leave.
Speaker 1: For a variety of reasons, and god, I had twins.
Speaker 1: That's all I'll say. But I was going to ask
Speaker 1: you because I know it wasn't a choice for you. Well,
Speaker 1: I mean it was. You didn't meet Steve till till
Speaker 1: you were in your late Oh yeah, yeah, we married.
Speaker 1: Like I was just about two and forty. We had
Speaker 1: children at forty one.
Speaker 2: But and then obviously you had but you'd also had
Speaker 2: fertility issues going on, so it wasn't a choice. But
Speaker 2: do you think there are some advantages to being an
Speaker 2: older parent like us?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think there's a lot of advantages. I shall
Speaker 1: tell you what they are. No, I No, I do
Speaker 1: because I have had the most amazing life in the
Speaker 1: sense that you know that the thing was going around
Speaker 1: Instagram recently where it was like, how many of these
Speaker 1: places have you been to? And I had been to
Speaker 1: everyone bar one. It was incredible. I was like, that's amazing.
Speaker 1: Like I have traveled the world. I have had amazing experiences.
Speaker 1: There is never a moment where I would rather be
Speaker 1: anywhere else than like with my children, for instance, whereas
Speaker 1: you know, and I feel like, now, do I wish
Speaker 1: I was physically a little younger to keep up with,
Speaker 1: you know, my crazy eleven year olds. Maybe, But no,
Speaker 1: I think that the only negative is what comes at
Speaker 1: the other side of that. I talked to my friend
Speaker 1: Mery Costis a lot about this is you know, I like,
Speaker 1: I tear up when I think about not being there
Speaker 1: for something. Will I be there when they have kids,
Speaker 1: Will I be there when they get married? I hope so,
Speaker 1: and I think so, but none of us know. So
Speaker 1: I think for me that's the only disadvantage. But for
Speaker 1: the most part, I actually think, even emotionally, I wasn't
Speaker 1: ready until you know, I had them, And I think
Speaker 1: that's the same is the truth of my marriage that
Speaker 1: I don't think I was, you know, in a place
Speaker 1: where I knew myself well enough. I think if i'd
Speaker 1: met Steve and I did meet ten years before we
Speaker 1: were both with other people, I don't think it would
Speaker 1: have lasted then because I had not done the work
Speaker 1: on myself. If I wasn't the person that I was
Speaker 1: when I, you know, met him, I think he would
Speaker 1: say the same thing.
Speaker 2: Do you think at risk of being like, you know,
Speaker 2: amateur shrink here? That that very real? Because I feel
Speaker 2: that that's it's interesting that you said that the only
Speaker 2: thing that gives you pause about being an older parent
Speaker 2: is thinking are their kids going to have grandparents around?
Speaker 2: Are we going to you know, am I going to
Speaker 2: miss a lot of things? This age does bring you,
Speaker 2: even though we're full of vitality, we've got so much
Speaker 2: to do. It brings us closer to realizing that. Do
Speaker 2: you think that's part of what's made you be buckling
Speaker 2: down on your health.
Speaker 1: Now, like making it one hundred percent. I need to
Speaker 1: be around for them one hundred percent. I mean, it
Speaker 1: shouldn't have to be the thing that made me realize that, truthfully,
Speaker 1: but it is one hundred percent. I think at some
Speaker 1: point I just went, oh my god, I have to
Speaker 1: do everything I can to be around for as long
Speaker 1: as I can to you know, see their lives play out,
Speaker 1: you know, for as long as for as long as
Speaker 1: I can. So that is the the truth. And also
Speaker 1: I think even when for me, I lost that kind
Speaker 1: of weight that I usually is, I just you know,
Speaker 1: I'm wearing jeans now. You see me in jeans. I've
Speaker 1: worn jeans since before I had babies. I do love
Speaker 1: miss as they count nice. My husband is. I don't
Speaker 1: think I was doing many fans, but you know there'd
Speaker 1: be seven and I go, oh god, I'm just you know,
Speaker 1: my levels are terrible. You know I need to kind
Speaker 1: of start exercising, and you go, oh, you look great.
Speaker 1: You know you just had twins. I'd be like seven
Speaker 1: years ago. Fucking jig is up. Man, Like Siria, you're
Speaker 1: not helping. I love him, but you know exactly, it's
Speaker 1: just again like but I think for me, I feel
Speaker 1: really good right now.
Speaker 2: The rest of my conversation with Bruno Papenrea after this
Speaker 2: short break stay with us. I love hearing you talk
Speaker 2: about motherhood because of your dynamic with Steve, your husband,
Speaker 2: right that you're the one who gets on the planes
Speaker 2: and he's the one who stays high. And that's the
Speaker 2: same in my life on a smaller scale. And I
Speaker 2: haven't been to Europe seven times this year yet, Bruna.
Speaker 2: But hey, yeah, yeah, it's still so unusual in our culture,
Speaker 2: even in creative industries, it is still so unusual.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Have you ever struggled with that.
Speaker 2: Or have you always been really clear that, no, this
Speaker 2: is what my family looks like and I'm doing the right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, great question, A great question. I hadn't struggled with it.
Speaker 1: I think he was so funny. He gave a speech
Speaker 1: at my fiftieth and he said, you know, it's great
Speaker 1: in a marriage. You know what happens is, you know,
Speaker 1: sometimes Bruna gets to travel and I stay home with
Speaker 1: the kids. And sometimes I stay home with the kids
Speaker 1: and Bruna gets to go to premiers and travel like.
Speaker 1: It was so funny the way I can't. He said
Speaker 1: it in an even even funnier way, and everyone laughed because
Speaker 1: then it was true. I think I did okay with it.
Speaker 1: I think when they were younger, and I wished i'd know. Now.
Speaker 1: Every time I see someone with a young baby, I go,
Speaker 1: don't worry they don't remember anything before they're seven, because
Speaker 1: I'll be like, hey, kids, remember when I took you
Speaker 1: to Disneyland four times? They're like no, I think it's
Speaker 1: getting harder now. I haven't struggled with it at all.
Speaker 1: I remember going to even baby group in America, and
Speaker 1: because we had twins, it was almost okay that he
Speaker 1: was there. But he was the only man there at
Speaker 1: that time. He was the only father there, and he
Speaker 1: would have gone had we had twins or not. You know,
Speaker 1: he's just an unbelievable father. I have not struggled with
Speaker 1: it at all. I think it's getting harder because with
Speaker 1: my daughter, particularly who's eleven, I think it's a really
Speaker 1: tricky age and she's always wanted him and now she
Speaker 1: wants me. I hope you're listening Steve to this and Kenning,
Speaker 1: he's very upset about it. No, but it is I
Speaker 1: think the dynamics change.
Speaker 2: And it was fourteen and she said to me because
Speaker 2: on Sunday I was like, I'm going Monday morning. I'm
Speaker 2: not going to be back to Thursday this week. And
Speaker 2: she was just like, please don't go. Why do you
Speaker 2: have to go? I get that the first.
Speaker 1: In a way.
Speaker 2: She started saying that more as she's older, which is
Speaker 2: strange because you'd think it.
Speaker 1: Would be No, that's exactly what's happening to me. And
Speaker 1: they've been saying it a lot. I mean it's like
Speaker 1: and if we do anything on a weekend that doesn't
Speaker 1: include them, you know, it's like, well, this is our time.
Speaker 1: And yeah, I find it really hard. I've actually started
Speaker 1: saying I think the other day I was like, Mummy,
Speaker 1: just is not for loopers? Is bad today? I just
Speaker 1: need to go and do the cold plunge. I just
Speaker 1: so I try. And you know, they know I have Loopers.
Speaker 1: They're really attuned to it, you know, without scaring them
Speaker 1: obviously either. But you know, I do find that I'm
Speaker 1: starting to kind of have more honest conversations with them,
Speaker 1: you know, to make them part of like I'm trying
Speaker 1: to you know, the better I feel, the better will
Speaker 1: be all together. So yeah, it definitely gets harder. We
Speaker 1: are very good as a family, Like when we go
Speaker 1: away as soon as they you know, break from school,
Speaker 1: we all go to America because I have to work there,
Speaker 1: Steve has to work there. So we try and always
Speaker 1: do that as a family. We you know, and god,
Speaker 1: that's pretty good for them. They get to you know,
Speaker 1: travel around the world and have these great experiences. But
Speaker 1: as moving back to Australia made it more complicated, it's
Speaker 1: made it easier in some ways because I will be
Speaker 1: honest and say my anxiety levels dropped five percent because
Speaker 1: I'm not worried about the guns and the politics. That's
Speaker 1: a real day to day It's a real day to day,
Speaker 1: say for you driving on the freeway, driving them to school.
Speaker 1: You know, it's it's something that I think about often. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, we don't discount I you know, I think
Speaker 1: we may have to go back for a bit and
Speaker 1: then come back again. I think it's that's going to
Speaker 1: you know, we we have a bit, most of our
Speaker 1: business is still there. My dream would just be to
Speaker 1: shoot everything you know, American here and then I'd have
Speaker 1: the best of everything? Are you always in meetings just
Speaker 1: going you know where? Yeah, And by the way, I'm
Speaker 1: not lying, it's completely true. You know. You know I
Speaker 1: envy the kind of the George Miller's and the Baslomans,
Speaker 1: and you know, the kind of J. James Cameron's, and
Speaker 1: you know, like just you know, build something and stay
Speaker 1: somewhere in one place and build it for years. And
Speaker 1: I have so much kind of admiration for that because
Speaker 1: you know, it's really you know, your lifestyle is so important.
Speaker 1: I want to ask you about ageism in Hollywood.
Speaker 2: It's a much discussed topic, but I want to actually
Speaker 2: ask you not about the on screen faces that were
Speaker 2: always very busy dissecting Yeah, because that's become such a
Speaker 2: almost tedious conversation now about like because the are on
Speaker 2: screen women over fifty, they're damned if they do. They're
Speaker 2: dumb if they don't. But I heard Kate Winslet, who
Speaker 2: I love, I love, She's obviously promoting things at the moment,
Speaker 2: and she was on a podcast. I heard her talk
Speaker 2: about how it surprised her to hear people in Hollywood
Speaker 2: behind the scenes too. She didn't name the director, but
Speaker 2: she said that she had lunch or something with a
Speaker 2: female director who had recently had died ahead and a
Speaker 2: few things, and Kate Winslet was like, why wouldn't you
Speaker 2: just you know, relax into it, and she said, oh, God,
Speaker 2: no one wants to hire an old lady director and
Speaker 2: that Winslet was a bit shocked.
Speaker 1: She was like, Oh, that's so the ageism is real.
Speaker 1: Do you find that? Do you think it's true?
Speaker 2: Do you feel pressure like behind, like in the industry
Speaker 2: side of Hollywood for everybody to also stay young, stay
Speaker 2: yeah kind of?
Speaker 1: I mean where I've where I've seen it. I mean so,
Speaker 1: I was part of a a big organization called Reframe,
Speaker 1: which was all about finding out why women weren't directors specifically,
Speaker 1: weren't getting the opportunities that they should be being given,
Speaker 1: why more men were getting those opportunities. And one of
Speaker 1: the things that, you know, one of the learnings that
Speaker 1: came out of that research was that it was a
Speaker 1: lot of mid career women falling out of the system.
Speaker 1: Wasn't the young ones who were just coming up. It
Speaker 1: was the mid career women, women who were had made
Speaker 1: a film years ago and then just not gotten that
Speaker 1: second break in a way that maybe a man would
Speaker 1: have gotten that second bigger break, or they'd made like
Speaker 1: one film that didn't perform and then they were in
Speaker 1: director jail, which I think women go into a lot
Speaker 1: more than men to direct to jail, like go to jail,
Speaker 1: like you can't get that next opportunity because you made
Speaker 1: something that didn't you know, set the world on fire. Look,
Speaker 1: I've definitely I've talked about this a lot. I've definitely
Speaker 1: found that women who are tough, like, oh, they're difficult
Speaker 1: to work with. I'm like, no more difficult than every
Speaker 1: man I've worked with, but they, you know, they're definitely
Speaker 1: I think if women aren't kind of as woman fuzzy
Speaker 1: as people want them to be, that's definitely the case.
Speaker 1: We recently, you know, made a film with a dear
Speaker 1: friend of mine here, Tony Jordan's book Condition, with my
Speaker 1: friend Marcela Lunum, who I hope she doesn't mind me
Speaker 1: saying this is sixty and there was her first narrative
Speaker 1: feature at sixty. And you know, one of the reasons
Speaker 1: we talk about that is because, for lots of different reasons,
Speaker 1: whether it's raising her child, trying to make a living,
Speaker 1: she's had many She's an artist, she's a graphic designer,
Speaker 1: she'd made documentaries, done lots of things, knew more about
Speaker 1: directing than almost anyone I'd work with. But if we
Speaker 1: hadn't given them that opportunity, would someone else have Maybe
Speaker 1: not exactly for that reason, because they might go, well,
Speaker 1: why hasn't she made a film and she's sixty, you know,
Speaker 1: Whereas I don't think they're asking men those questions as much.
Speaker 1: But actually I do feel like even that is shifting
Speaker 1: because my friend Leslie Linka Glada, who is the head
Speaker 1: of the Director's Girl in America, she is in her sixties. Also,
Speaker 1: I don't think she'd mind me saying that, and she's directed,
Speaker 1: she's for years been directing The Homeland and I mean
Speaker 1: every big action she's amazing, And in a way, I
Speaker 1: feel like she's working more than ever now. I feel
Speaker 1: like there is just such a kind of awareness of
Speaker 1: people who are really good at their jobs and who can,
Speaker 1: you know, be responsible for these big budgets and who
Speaker 1: have that experience, And so I feel like in some
Speaker 1: ways that perception is shifting, and that makes me really happy, absolutely.
Speaker 2: Because I mean, we've seen men in Hollywood often they're
Speaker 2: still making their passion products, way way way into that.
Speaker 1: I love Clarie's but don't get me wrong. But yeah,
Speaker 1: you're like, yeah, it's yeah, we shouldn't all be this.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's a culture of newness often, isn't it hot?
Speaker 1: Young thing? Ye? Young thing? It is, it really is,
Speaker 1: and it continues to be a culture of newness. I think. So.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I wanted to ask you before we finish, which
Speaker 2: we could have talked.
Speaker 1: I don't believe it, like we're just getting stuck. I know.
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm a question.
Speaker 2: Well, we started off talking about ambition. You told me
Speaker 2: you are more ambitious. Actually, I want to know. There's
Speaker 2: two things I want asking. You're more ambitious than ever
Speaker 2: you've said. There is a lot of doom and glue,
Speaker 2: like people say, you know, movies are dead, TV is dead,
Speaker 2: everything's dead. It's all just going to be three second
Speaker 2: TikTok ai blah.
Speaker 1: Are you optimistic?
Speaker 2: Yeah, that your ambition and what you want to lean
Speaker 2: into can happen. And what are you desperate to do
Speaker 2: that you have not done yet?
Speaker 1: Oh a great question. I'm really optimistic actually, And you
Speaker 1: know it was interesting. Actually I just watched I didn't
Speaker 1: watch all of the Emmys. But I was so when
Speaker 1: Richard Gad spoke when they won but Baby Reindeer won
Speaker 1: the Best Limited Series, he said what I believe, which
Speaker 1: is like, it's not a time to be safe. It's
Speaker 1: a time to be bold. It's a time to be brave,
Speaker 1: you know, it's a time to take risks. And I
Speaker 1: totally believe that. And I think actually last what the
Speaker 1: Emmys was actually quite inspiring this year when you really
Speaker 1: look at what won, and it is so affirming constantly
Speaker 1: because the audience will always surprise you. And I've always
Speaker 1: believed no one really knows what they want until you
Speaker 1: give it to them and excite them and you know,
Speaker 1: inspire them, you know, and everything in Cleaning the Bear,
Speaker 1: all those amazing shows that picked up Emmys. So I
Speaker 1: am optimistic. I definitely think what happened is a you know,
Speaker 1: there was always I said it five years ago, I said,
Speaker 1: this is the boom. It's going to last five years,
Speaker 1: and then people are going to make less because it
Speaker 1: was there was an explosion of content. I don't think
Speaker 1: that's true of our business. I think all business is
Speaker 1: contracting slightly. So I think we all have to be
Speaker 1: you know, we're all kind of tightening our purse strings
Speaker 1: and trying to be responsible and you know, just trying
Speaker 1: to I certainly want to run a business that you know,
Speaker 1: can survive through time. And so I'm optimistic. I am
Speaker 1: optimistic because I think that what we discovered through COVID
Speaker 1: is people really, when there was nothing else to do,
Speaker 1: they just really really need stories. You know, we need
Speaker 1: them for so many different reasons. So yeah, I'm optimistic.
Speaker 1: What are you dying to do next? I think the thing,
Speaker 1: you know I have this bugaboo is it's more. I
Speaker 1: just saw another one announced two days ago. You know,
Speaker 1: men can make any World War two movie they want.
Speaker 1: I for years have had recent I optioned years ago
Speaker 1: this book called Ashley's Warrants, about one of the first
Speaker 1: female soldiers killed in kind of active combat. And that's
Speaker 1: what I'm dying to do? Is it next? It's just
Speaker 1: this thing that I've carried a long time, but it
Speaker 1: is so much easier to make. For instance, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm hamming out to me how many freaking things week
Speaker 1: in green light with you know, more stories with movie stars,
Speaker 1: you know, during World War Two with men at the center,
Speaker 1: but we do not see them through the female lens
Speaker 1: and so that and then I want to make something
Speaker 1: really big world building. I've you know, I'm developing a
Speaker 1: kind of big space odyssey and a big costume drama
Speaker 1: because I'm obsessed with costume dramas and I've never made
Speaker 1: so they are the two things that I think in
Speaker 1: terms of building a big world. You know, our TV
Speaker 1: budgets are as big as like you know, some of
Speaker 1: these big movies, and so we can do it. There's
Speaker 1: no you know, I know we can do that. But
Speaker 1: that's the thing that I'm most excited. I think that,
Speaker 1: you know, is something that I haven't done that I
Speaker 1: really want to do next. Bruna, thank you, Thanks Holly.
Speaker 2: Bruno was here at Mother Maya a couple of months ago,
Speaker 2: and she came right over to me and told me
Speaker 2: how much she loved Mid, which obviously delighted me and
Speaker 2: surprised me, because Wow, she loves the show that we
Speaker 2: make for you, and she's been playing it to all
Speaker 2: her famous friends and that makes me happy because they're
Speaker 2: a tough crowd as you are. If you want to
Speaker 2: listen to Bruna's favorite episode of Mid, the one that
Speaker 2: she talked about in our interview, It's called The Cure
Speaker 2: for burnout is Cooked and it's with the British author
Speaker 2: Catherine May, and it's also one of my favorites. It's
Speaker 2: a reassuring call to slow down and find your own
Speaker 2: way to rest, something that, as you know by now
Speaker 2: having listened to that, Bruna finds hard but essential. And
Speaker 2: I hope that if you're pushing through your own hard,
Speaker 2: hard days at the moment, you find a way.
Speaker 1: To rest that works for you.
Speaker 2: Thank you to our amazing team, ep Namer Brown, whose
Speaker 2: favorite Bruna project is Gone Girl, Yes love that producer,
Speaker 2: Charlie Blackman who loves big little lies who doesn't, and
Speaker 2: Tom Lyon who can't get past the dry and me
Speaker 2: who can't believe I got to sit down with the
Speaker 2: woman behind Nicole Kidman's incredible hair in the undoing with
Speaker 2: Hugh Grant.
Speaker 1: Stop It, Bruna Papentraya.
Speaker 2: If you loved that conversation and want to make sure
Speaker 2: you never miss a beat with the Unleashed crew, make
Speaker 2: sure you hit follow right here on this feed. Thanks
Speaker 2: for listening. The Unleashed Team will be back in your
Speaker 2: ears next Tuesday.
Speaker 1: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and watars
Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on.