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Speaker 1: This episode is brought to you by HP Australia and

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Speaker 1: their instant Ink subscription.

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Speaker 2: The brain is a powerful thing, but it can be

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Speaker 2: powerful in like a negative way as well, And I

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Speaker 2: kind of I still probably haven't fully unpacked that time psychologically,

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Speaker 2: so about knowing you can be a man and you're

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Speaker 2: still a man, as well as stepping into some of

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Speaker 2: these other things that for a long time men have

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Speaker 2: been made to feel like they can't be your show.

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Speaker 2: There's a very strong divide between two sides, and both

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Speaker 2: sides are kind of just talking into a void and

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Speaker 2: no one's actually listening.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the seas the Yay Podcast. Busy and happy

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Speaker 1: are not the same thing. We too rarely question what

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Speaker 1: makes the heart seeing We work, then we rest, but

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Speaker 1: rarely we play and often don't realize there's more than

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Speaker 1: one way. So this is a platform to hear and

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Speaker 1: explore the stories of those who found lives. They adore,

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Speaker 1: the good, bad and ugly, the best and worst day

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Speaker 1: will bear all the facets of seizing your yay. I'm

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Speaker 1: Sarah Davidson or a spoonful of Sarah, a lawyer turned

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Speaker 1: funentrepreneur who swapped the suits and heels to co found,

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Speaker 1: Matcha Maiden and Matcha Milk bar CZA is a series

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Speaker 1: of conversations on finding a life you love and exploring

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Speaker 1: the self doubt, challenge, joy and fulfillment along the way.

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Speaker 1: Lovely Yeahborhood Just squeezing in another guest episode this week

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Speaker 1: before we reconvene four Yays of Our Lives with Ang

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Speaker 1: and of course for our second ever this Yea or

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Speaker 1: That Ya segment, So if you haven't submitted to your

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Speaker 1: questions for that, please do you still have time? Head

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Speaker 1: back to the Last Years of Our Lives episode for

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Speaker 1: more context on what I'm actually talking about. But basically,

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Speaker 1: this Yea or That Yeah is where we've just decided

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Speaker 1: to add a random segment like you know we like

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Speaker 1: to do, and basically we're answering life's big questions like

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Speaker 1: do you face towards or away from the water coming

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Speaker 1: from the shower head when you're in the shower, or

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Speaker 1: do you go toothpaste then water or water than toothpaste,

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Speaker 1: or as some of you widows do, water then toothpaste

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Speaker 1: then water again, Like what other big life I life

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Speaker 1: question should we address? Because I feel like they're the

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Speaker 1: things that you only find out about someone when you

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Speaker 1: live with them, and you don't really ever talk about

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Speaker 1: that stuff with people, but we all have a very

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Speaker 1: defined way of doing it. So if you can think

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Speaker 1: of any other questions we should address, please let us know. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: back to this week, we are sneaking in another two

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Speaker 1: guests actually, as it is currently Men's Health Week from

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Speaker 1: the thirteenth to the nineteenth of June. As you know,

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Speaker 1: while men's health, women's health, or anyone's health and the

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Speaker 1: surrounding conversations about what that means, they're important every day

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Speaker 1: of the year, but we do a dedicated episode every

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Speaker 1: June for Men's Mental Health Week to specifically remind us

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Speaker 1: of some of the major statistics which are often quite shocking,

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Speaker 1: the unique challenges to men's health, and the useful resources

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Speaker 1: that we have discovered along the way. And they've been

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Speaker 1: such interesting and helpful episodes to me even as a woman,

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Speaker 1: as a wife, as a sister, a friend, a colleague,

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Speaker 1: and the list goes on. I don't think we could

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Speaker 1: be graised with two better guests for the occasion than

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Speaker 1: the absolutely Jens we have with us today for this

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Speaker 1: year's episode, both of whom have actually been on the

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Speaker 1: show before, but who are on together this time because

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Speaker 1: since those appearances they have become friends and co authored

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Speaker 1: a book. Back for his third appearance is psychiatrist, mental

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Speaker 1: health advocate and former Cuff Club member. A few of

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Speaker 1: you who've been listening along for long enough we'll know

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Speaker 1: about lammy, So of course I am talking about the

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Speaker 1: incredible doctor Kieran Kennedy. And for his second appearance, we

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Speaker 1: also have joining him publisher, author, and former editor of

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Speaker 1: the amazing men's health magazine Scott Henderson, or as some

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Speaker 1: of you may know him, Scotti Hindo. So what an

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Speaker 1: absolute dream team. If you've been listening along for a while,

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Speaker 1: you'll already know what amazing work these guys are doing,

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Speaker 1: each separately but now also together for men's health and

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Speaker 1: health generally, as well as being fabulous role models in

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Speaker 1: the realm of redefining modern masculinity and men's mental health conversations.

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Speaker 1: But now they have colleated it all into the handbook

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Speaker 1: we've literally talked about the world needing, perfectly titled The

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Speaker 1: Manual Like Man You wel a practical guide to life,

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Speaker 1: health and happiness from the science behind nutrition and training

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Speaker 1: to the anecdotal surrounding relationships, body image, sexuality. They literally

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Speaker 1: cover it all. I'll let them tell you more about

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Speaker 1: it themselves, because I'm already not doing these incredible humans

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Speaker 1: justice and their amazing book. This was such a delight funny,

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Speaker 1: it was moving, it was reflective. I think you can

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Speaker 1: hear how much I enjoyed it, and I hope that

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Speaker 1: they did as well, and then also, of course hope

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Speaker 1: that you guys enjoy it as much as we did. Guys,

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Speaker 1: welcome back to Cca.

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Speaker 3: Thank you so much.

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Speaker 1: It is so nice to see you both, and so

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Speaker 1: nice to see you guys together because you weren't hanging

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Speaker 1: out the last time both of you did your episode.

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Speaker 1: So to jogging on memory, Scott, we haven't chatted on

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Speaker 1: the show since June twenty nineteen, and Kieran June twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty and June twenty twenty one. So we all skipped

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Speaker 1: our reunion in June last year, and we're back on

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Speaker 1: the first of June this year.

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Speaker 3: Y I on a schedule only June.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exclusively June catchups. Is it a reaining Oh my god,

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Speaker 1: shut up, it's a reainion.

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Speaker 2: We're like a trio of weird animals that only comes

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Speaker 2: out for ye.

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Speaker 1: It's like Kieren Scott. Sarah's season is like from the

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Speaker 1: first of June onwards, only Kiran's gone.

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Speaker 3: Sarah in retrogade.

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Speaker 1: I think we might be in Full Moon Rising. I'm

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Speaker 1: not sure. So it's just so lovely to see you both,

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Speaker 1: and you have both become really good friends and co

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Speaker 1: authors since I spoke to you last. So it's also

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Speaker 1: really strange and lovely to see you both next to

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Speaker 1: each other.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well's colighting.

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Speaker 1: Well, it's colliding in retrograde. Okay, but oh my gosh.

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Speaker 1: Before we get to how you met, how you decided

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Speaker 1: to become co authors, and this incredible book you've got,

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Speaker 1: we have to catch the listeners up on what's been

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Speaker 1: happening since your last episodes. We've kind of gone through

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Speaker 1: both of your whole lives basically Kieran all the way

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Speaker 1: back to Calf Club and Lammy, as I have labored

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Speaker 1: many times on this show. Oh no, it's frozen.

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Speaker 3: We freeze the ya.

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Speaker 1: Sorry, you guys just froze.

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Speaker 3: Oh there were we made a great freeze the ya. Pun.

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Speaker 3: I don't know's You've better get onto it quick.

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Speaker 1: Scott. I'm so proud of you. You can't take a

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Speaker 1: magazine and exactly, I mean that's how we were introduced

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Speaker 1: to you back in twenty nineteen. It was as you

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Speaker 1: just had taken over the reins as editor of Men's Health.

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Speaker 1: But since then, I mean, both of you have so

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Speaker 1: many more chapters in your path, yays to catch us

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Speaker 1: up on. So before we go any further, what's happened

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Speaker 1: since then?

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Speaker 3: Right, you go first? It's a lot. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Well, like I say, I guess we last caught up

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Speaker 2: mate in twenty twenty one, didn't we?

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Speaker 1: So yeah, we caught up in real life probably since then,

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Speaker 1: but on the show was twenty twenty one in fake

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Speaker 1: life in the digital world.

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Speaker 2: Like coffee and drinks and too Mini scrambled eggs in

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Speaker 2: Melbourne Mini, A catch up's been had.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, no, it's been great.

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Speaker 2: I've moved to Sydney, I say, I think since our

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Speaker 2: last on air chats psychiatrist life, doctor life, jumping around

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Speaker 2: the globe, a few travels. Yeah, it's been a wild

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Speaker 2: ride and then writing a book. There's legend in between

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Speaker 2: there somewhere as well.

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Speaker 1: And you've also gone. I feel like last time we

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Speaker 1: spoke to you, you were hectic in emergency in the hospital,

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Speaker 1: kind of burnt out, really really working so hard. But

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Speaker 1: I have since changed the structure of your work life

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Speaker 1: as well, which has been amazing. So tell us about

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Speaker 1: telehealth and now being out of work like you did

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Speaker 1: a stint in Bali recently. You just come back from

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Speaker 1: North America, Like, tell us how that's all come about.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just been a really nice period of being

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Speaker 2: able to take some time off and time away, you know,

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Speaker 2: I have some holidays overseas and then just have some

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Speaker 2: flexibility as well while I'm here in Australia with where

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Speaker 2: I work and how I work, And No, it's just

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Speaker 2: been amazing. I think so many doctors will relate to

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Speaker 2: the you know, the sense of you' spend so many years,

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Speaker 2: like we've talked about many a time, all three.

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Speaker 1: Of us, I've talked about in June only Yeah, only when.

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Speaker 3: We're away the rest of the year. We're in hibernation.

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Speaker 1: Hiberation.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, it's one all.

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Speaker 2: Your Yeah, so many years of kind of not having

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Speaker 2: so much say in terms of how you work and

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Speaker 2: what that looks like, and so it's yeah, it's been

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Speaker 2: a great little time of popping out the other side

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Speaker 2: and being able to take some more time for books

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Speaker 2: and chats like this one, and just living a little

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Speaker 2: as well.

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Speaker 3: So it's been so great.

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Speaker 1: I think it's also really beautiful just you know, on

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Speaker 1: the whole theme of CZA and the ability to change

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Speaker 1: your pathway in ways that you might not have expected

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Speaker 1: and at times you might not have expected, like hospital

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Speaker 1: care and probably couldn't have imagined that you could still

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Speaker 1: be as passionate about psychology, but also have made more room.

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Speaker 1: Like I remember you were squeezing in your interviews or

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Speaker 1: squeezing in trips to Sydney and the partnerships you really

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Speaker 1: wanted to work on you really couldn't because you couldn't

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Speaker 1: leave the hospital during the day. So I think it's

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Speaker 1: also reassuring to be like, if you envision a different structure,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't mean you have to leave a career completely.

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Speaker 1: You can definitely start to take steps to pivot towards

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Speaker 1: having time to write a book.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, And that's been just the beautiful thing for me

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Speaker 2: in the last year or two has just been people

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Speaker 2: to create some space for those other passions and for

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Speaker 2: those things that for so many years, as you know,

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Speaker 2: you know, I've wanted to kind of make time for

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Speaker 2: like writing, like talking about men's health, like the media work.

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Speaker 2: So it's yeah, it's been just very humbling to be

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Speaker 2: able to see that kind.

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Speaker 3: Of coming around.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, how exciting. I'm so happy for you, and I've

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Speaker 1: loved just being like, dude, you're in more different countries

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Speaker 1: than I am, and that's saying something. Oh so, Scottie,

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Speaker 1: what have you been up to since June twenty nineteen.

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Speaker 2: Bed On, because I think I spoke to you when

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Speaker 2: I had maybe just started editing mental health, So I

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Speaker 2: did that, and then obviously pandemics here we got closed

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Speaker 2: down for a while, so started my own I mean

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Speaker 2: I was just kind of sitting on all these interviews

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Speaker 2: and I mean health didn't stop just because kind of

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Speaker 2: mental health stopped, so I kind of wanted to keep

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Speaker 2: writing getting that out there, so started my own thing.

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Speaker 2: Then we managed to get ment Health back on its feet,

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Speaker 2: which was great. So I went back there for two years,

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Speaker 2: but then left magazines at the end of last year

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Speaker 2: and now I mean book publishing, so still sharing stories,

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Speaker 2: just I guess in a longer format, which is exciting.

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Speaker 2: It's working with some great authors and I'm really excited

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Speaker 2: for those books. The funny thing is with magazines, right,

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Speaker 2: you work on a magazine and it comes out in

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Speaker 2: four weeks, whereas books. I'm working on books now and

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Speaker 2: my books won't come out till January twenty twenty four.

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Speaker 2: I think my first book comes out, So it's a long,

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Speaker 2: long journey. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Wow, what a change of pace.

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Speaker 3: Such a change of pace, but it's kind of it's nice.

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Speaker 3: It's a lot more considered.

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Speaker 2: And you know, we were just talking off air about

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Speaker 2: how there's a permanence with books and they're kind of

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Speaker 2: those words live on and those editions are around for

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Speaker 2: a lot longer, so kind of there's a lot more

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Speaker 2: care taking, not more care.

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Speaker 3: That's disrespectful to magazines, isn't it a lot longer.

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Speaker 1: Care, different care?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah, cool. Well I'll never work in magazines. I

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Speaker 3: guess I got to make it go with this book thing.

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Speaker 1: I think like my favorite part. And I mean both

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Speaker 1: of you kind of are on podcasts a lot. Scott,

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Speaker 1: do you have your own podcast now? And I've Men's

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Speaker 1: Health had a podcast and you guys are on that together.

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Speaker 1: I think you'll understand that one of my favorite parts

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Speaker 1: of having a show is that I get to track

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Speaker 1: people's journeys, like you have an audio We have an

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Speaker 1: audio record of who you guys were a couple of

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Speaker 1: years ago in totally different chapters of your life. And like,

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Speaker 1: obviously we've skated through COVID and a whole lot of changes.

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Speaker 1: But one thing I love is that both of you,

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Speaker 1: I think the bulk of our conversations with both of

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Speaker 1: you was obviously very focused on men's health as a

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Speaker 1: topic generally, but really focused on Scotty you had I

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Speaker 1: think it was just before your first cover maybe had

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Speaker 1: come out, and you were talking about how taking on

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Speaker 1: the reins of such a big magazine you really wanted

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Speaker 1: to redefine the kind of picture perfect image of a

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Speaker 1: Men's Health cover and a men's Health model, and the

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Speaker 1: stories that you were telling and kier and you and

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Speaker 1: I have only spoken like on Men's Health Week issues

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Speaker 1: in particular and the psychology around men's body image, and

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Speaker 1: you guys have consistently been talking about the same things,

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Speaker 1: And even if it's in a different format now, I

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Speaker 1: think it's so cool that this book has come to

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Speaker 1: fruition as something that is like reading your words. I'm like,

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Speaker 1: we literally spoke about this, you guys have been passionate

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Speaker 1: about this for going on, like well your whole lives

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Speaker 1: really but it's so cool that now you know it

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Speaker 1: is coming out in a more permanent form as a

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Speaker 1: kind of guide.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 1: I think we actually said in those episodes, we wish

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Speaker 1: there was something we could give the modern man and

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Speaker 1: that women could also read as well to understand the

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Speaker 1: challenges that are unique to masculinity. And that's what your

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Speaker 1: episodes were for me. I was like sharing them, like, guys,

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Speaker 1: you need to understand, but get this out there, and

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Speaker 1: you've done it, and now it's physically a manual, like

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Speaker 1: literally the manuals and the two of you together like

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Speaker 1: it just to me, I'm you know you guys know

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Speaker 1: I bang on about the dots connecting like this is

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Speaker 1: the biggest like collision of worlds that is just so

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Speaker 1: exciting to me. So congratulations, thank you.

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Speaker 2: It is so like it's quite surreal to like, especially

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Speaker 2: like when we're talking about like you know, back when

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Speaker 2: Scotty was with men's health and how we met through

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Speaker 2: that and then the pandemic, you know, just all of

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Speaker 2: how it's come around and how we've both.

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Speaker 3: Just been actually interesting pandemic story. So I think you

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Speaker 3: and Nikki were the last people that I saw, because

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Speaker 3: I was in Melbourne right before the very first lockdown,

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Speaker 3: and I think we went out to breakfast around the

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Speaker 3: f one and then I flew back to Sydney and

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Speaker 3: they wouldn't let me into the office and so they

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Speaker 3: sent me home just because I'd been on a plane.

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Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, you were like the last humans I

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Speaker 2: had contact with, and then I never saw anyone ever again. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Wow, So I really got you through the pandemic.

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Speaker 3: You really did.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, in the Last of US TV show. Yeah, the

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Speaker 2: Final Humans.

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Speaker 1: Oh god, I love that. I think it's It's also

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Speaker 1: so cool that, like we have known each other for

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Speaker 1: kind of all of those chapters, and so, you know,

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Speaker 1: often when people are like I never imagined I could

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Speaker 1: write a book. I never imagined that I would end

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Speaker 1: up here like and it's easy to think, O, well,

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Speaker 1: assurely that's not true. But you guys, we have audio

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Speaker 1: records of you actually saying those things, like I have

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Speaker 1: no idea where I'm going to end up in a

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Speaker 1: few years, like pre pandemic versions or mid pandemic versions

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Speaker 1: of yourselves to compare to. And now this has come

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Speaker 1: out so can you first tell us how you guys

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Speaker 1: connected and then how that develops into, oh my god,

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Speaker 1: we're going to write a book together. Was it just

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Speaker 1: that shared passion for the same things?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely pretty much. Yeah, so I guess we kind

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Speaker 2: of connected. We did a issue of mental health when

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Speaker 2: during the pandemic. I think the cover guy that we

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Speaker 2: had lined up was Robbie Williams.

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Speaker 1: And a close second to Kieran Kennedy.

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Speaker 2: But then the world wasn't in a really like Robbie

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Speaker 2: Williams life kind of place. Yeah, rocked a kind of

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Speaker 2: buy it happened at that time, so we were like, cool,

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Speaker 2: we actually want to do an issue dedicated to frontline workers.

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Speaker 2: I think our digital team had worked with Kieran before,

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Speaker 2: so we kind of knew Kieran, and then we knew

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Speaker 2: that he was doing essential work in hospitals during the

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Speaker 2: I guess the peak of the pandemic. So we kind

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Speaker 2: of got him along to a studio. We were like, cool, well,

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Speaker 2: we can't have hair and makeup because pandemic.

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Speaker 3: We can't.

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Speaker 2: It's just you and the photographer because pandemic. Can you

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Speaker 2: please not talk to each other, touch each other near

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Speaker 2: each other? So Anyway, we shot this cover and just

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Speaker 2: think and it was one of a few magazines kind

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Speaker 2: of did it. But I feel like we were kind

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Speaker 2: of one of the first ones, even kind of globally

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Speaker 2: to kind of do this issue dedicated to kind of

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Speaker 2: frontline workers. And it's probably one of my favorite issues

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Speaker 2: just in.

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Speaker 3: Terms of meaning.

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Speaker 2: But then it kind of took on more meaning because

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Speaker 2: we obviously kept in touch after that issue and became friends.

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Speaker 2: And it was funny the way we kept in touch

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Speaker 2: because obviously Kieren was in Melbourne Mega Lockdown. I was

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Speaker 2: in Sydney super carefree. But we would keep calling each other,

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Speaker 2: and you know, what we would talk about were our

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Speaker 2: frustrations with the state of men's health, in particular mental health.

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Speaker 2: But you know, just I guess the lags in terms

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Speaker 2: of information for available information from there and the way

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Speaker 2: that information was being delivered. You know, I feel men

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Speaker 2: and women consume information quite differently, and I just felt

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Speaker 2: like it wasn't well, we felt like it wasn't a

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Speaker 2: conversation that people were having. It was more do this,

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Speaker 2: do this, do this, and it wasn't resonating with men.

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Speaker 2: We're tricky eggs to crack, you know, and then.

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Speaker 3: Well, and I think as well, like.

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Speaker 2: We're especially the evolving man if well, you know, throw

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Speaker 2: that in there. I think, you know, Scotty and I

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Speaker 2: would talk so much about, especially with his work with

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Speaker 2: men's health, and you know, some of the dabbling I'd done,

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Speaker 2: and obviously fitness work a lot side medicine and all

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Speaker 2: of that. We were sort of talking about this, you know,

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Speaker 2: this like juxtaposition between these different things that men were

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Speaker 2: or could be or should be in terms of the

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Speaker 2: focus on the abs and the biceps versus the mental health.

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Speaker 2: And you know, I think we just really all that

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Speaker 2: coming together and needing to talk about kind of other

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Speaker 2: aspects of men's health, you know that we're out in

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Speaker 2: the media other than just the It's also it's such

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Speaker 2: a good time to have this chat because you know,

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Speaker 2: we were saying we kind of the mental health conversation

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Speaker 2: has been gaining momentum for the last you know, seven

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Speaker 2: to ten years. We had the me Too reckoning, which

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Speaker 2: was way over due. Then obviously the pandemic happened, which

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Speaker 2: everyone experience, you know, male, female or whatever.

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Speaker 3: But there was a lot of.

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Speaker 2: Rhetoric kind of around the last couple of years, especially

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Speaker 2: I heard when I was working in mentell saying, Oh,

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Speaker 2: it's a really tough time to be a man, and like,

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Speaker 2: it's not. We've had our But I think what people

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Speaker 2: mean by that is it's a confusing time because they

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Speaker 2: don't know what the right thing, they don't know who

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Speaker 2: they should be. But I guess the way that we

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Speaker 2: flip that on its head, or the way that we

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Speaker 2: looked at it was like, this is actually the most

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Speaker 2: exciting time because all these reckonings are over due, you know,

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Speaker 2: like we're being called out for bad behavior. We've been

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Speaker 2: given this blank slate, so let's do it right, Let's

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Speaker 2: do it in a healthy way, and let's reclaim masculinity

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Speaker 2: and dismantle that toxic masculinity. And you know, it actually

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Speaker 2: is the best time to be a man because we're

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Speaker 2: in this position where we've been offered a blank slate

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Speaker 2: and we can do it properly and respectfully to ourselves

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Speaker 2: and the world around us. So that was kind of

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Speaker 2: where we went. What was the question, how are you?

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Speaker 1: What did you have for breakfast?

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Speaker 3: Wow?

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, duo monologue.

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Speaker 1: But I think this is why I've always found you

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Speaker 1: guys just so fascinating and powerful to chat to about

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Speaker 1: these things because it is so easy for you guys

401
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Speaker 1: to just start talking about literally why it is so

402
00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:03,919
Speaker 1: important to have these conversations right now, why it's so

403
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Speaker 1: important to have them. Especially, I think for both of

404
00:20:06,560 --> 00:20:09,040
Speaker 1: you it's always been even more powerful. And I've loved

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Speaker 1: our conversations personally because you both straddle these worlds of

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Speaker 1: intense masculinity and this kind of new softness and ability

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Speaker 1: to discuss mental health openly and not seeing you know,

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Speaker 1: you can have both conversations. You both have like really

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Speaker 1: strong connections in sport and exercise and fitness, and you know,

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Speaker 1: one of the things I love that you say very

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Speaker 1: early in the book is that, like aesthetics do not

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Speaker 1: make it a man, but you've both lived in worlds

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Speaker 1: and understand worlds where that is a very high value.

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Speaker 1: There is a very high value place in magazines and

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Speaker 1: editorial and covers of men's glossy, you know, covers of

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Speaker 1: men's health. And then Kieran, you've done modeling, you've done bodybuilding,

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Speaker 1: and you have been a cover guy yourself. So I

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Speaker 1: think it's more powerful when it comes from you because

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Speaker 1: you're not dismissing those things. You guys are saying our

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Speaker 1: work involves these values. We know there has been traditionally

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Speaker 1: a value on just aesthetics and abs and masculinity and blowkeiness,

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Speaker 1: and you can do that chat, but you can also

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Speaker 1: kind of have these new conversations. And I think it's

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Speaker 1: that versatility that makes you guys easier to listen to

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Speaker 1: and a lot more powerful because guys who are kind

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Speaker 1: of in touch more with their blokey side and haven't

427
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Speaker 1: opened up yet too, it's okay to have a weakness

428
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Speaker 1: and you know, talk about mental health and struggles. They go, oh,

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Speaker 1: but those guys are also like me, you know, it's

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Speaker 1: they can talk that talk as well. Am I making sense?

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Speaker 3: You know me?

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Speaker 2: No, absolutely, And this just fires both of us up

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Speaker 2: so much because that's like the just I think the

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Speaker 2: crux of what we're so passionate about and what we

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Speaker 2: wanted to put across in the book. It's sort of

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Speaker 2: men and women. But I think for a long time,

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Speaker 2: especially men, you know, it's sort of boxes or silos

438
00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:50,520
Speaker 2: where it's kind of like, okay, well, if you're a

439
00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:52,440
Speaker 2: man and you go to the gym and you want

440
00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:55,920
Speaker 2: to work out or you're doing bodybuilding, just as an example,

441
00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:59,760
Speaker 2: then that means that you are these things, but you're

442
00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:02,800
Speaker 2: not those things, and vice versa.

443
00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:03,280
Speaker 3: You know.

444
00:22:03,359 --> 00:22:06,040
Speaker 2: So I think it's as you say, and far too

445
00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:09,040
Speaker 2: humbling to say that we or that I represent that

446
00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:12,119
Speaker 2: and the personal lives thereah, But like I think for

447
00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:16,239
Speaker 2: us feeling that in our own lives in terms of,

448
00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:18,640
Speaker 2: like you say, loving sport and fitness and the gym,

449
00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:23,160
Speaker 2: but also loving a good old you know, deeper meaningful

450
00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:26,160
Speaker 2: or chatting about feelings and not being afraid of that

451
00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:29,280
Speaker 2: side of things. You know, that was something that we

452
00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:32,000
Speaker 2: wanted to bring across with medical knowledge and bring into

453
00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:35,720
Speaker 2: the book and let men know that sort of they

454
00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:38,879
Speaker 2: can step into as well. It's not about choosing or

455
00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:43,199
Speaker 2: saying in one silo. It's about knowing you can be

456
00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:46,240
Speaker 2: a man and you're still a man as well as

457
00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:49,520
Speaker 2: you know, stepping into some of these other things that

458
00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:51,320
Speaker 2: for a long time men have been made to feel

459
00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:52,760
Speaker 2: like they can't be your show.

460
00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:57,239
Speaker 1: M Well, I think like you've just done it so

461
00:22:57,640 --> 00:23:00,320
Speaker 1: brilliantly because the book is such a like it's not

462
00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:03,800
Speaker 1: too heavy on the science and in a way that

463
00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:06,280
Speaker 1: it's intimidating or overwhelming. You kind of go from like

464
00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:09,640
Speaker 1: the full science of exercise and nutrition like those basics,

465
00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:12,960
Speaker 1: to like blue power aid to treat hangovers, to meditation,

466
00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:16,240
Speaker 1: to then the psychology of online dating and attachment styles,

467
00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:20,840
Speaker 1: Like it really covers every part of life, from yeah,

468
00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:24,080
Speaker 1: the really intense, hard hitting science to just like the

469
00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:28,320
Speaker 1: anecdotal conversational like these are the you know, silly hangover

470
00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:30,560
Speaker 1: tips we have for dudes. Like, I just love that

471
00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:33,320
Speaker 1: you're able to really like, even as a woman reading this,

472
00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:36,000
Speaker 1: I was like, I understand Nick a lot more because

473
00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:39,200
Speaker 1: you've kind of covered like this is a manual for

474
00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:43,440
Speaker 1: everyone to understand men. And I had like heaps of

475
00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:46,440
Speaker 1: epiphany moments about ways that he responds to certain things.

476
00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:48,680
Speaker 1: That is not how I respond to certain things. It's

477
00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:50,879
Speaker 1: just so broad in the way that you cover so

478
00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:54,280
Speaker 1: many things at so many different levels of intensity. For

479
00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:56,320
Speaker 1: you guys, I think one of my favorite things to

480
00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:58,920
Speaker 1: ask new authors is like, what were the hardest bits

481
00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:01,400
Speaker 1: for you to cover? And what were your favorite bits

482
00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:01,800
Speaker 1: to cover?

483
00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:04,479
Speaker 3: So cliche, the hardest were the favorites.

484
00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:07,280
Speaker 2: It was all rewarding, right, But I think the hardest

485
00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:09,040
Speaker 2: bits were So there were some bits like and I

486
00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:11,080
Speaker 2: think this is kind of like what we tried to

487
00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:12,760
Speaker 2: do in the book is like there are certain bits

488
00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:16,000
Speaker 2: where we're super honest, like, for example, a plant based

489
00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:16,800
Speaker 2: eating chapter.

490
00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:20,919
Speaker 3: You know, I am quite honest with how I've tried.

491
00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:26,840
Speaker 2: It and failed spectacularly, but I have seen benefits, and

492
00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:29,359
Speaker 2: I think it was those were kind of fun ones

493
00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:32,480
Speaker 2: to write because it was like maybe things that going

494
00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:35,360
Speaker 2: into this we knew that we wanted to write about

495
00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:39,240
Speaker 2: and include because there's obviously research and evidence based behind these,

496
00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:40,280
Speaker 2: but maybe they weren't things.

497
00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:43,080
Speaker 3: We were already incorporating. Meditation is another one.

498
00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:47,000
Speaker 2: You know, I have this weird relationship with meditation where

499
00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:49,640
Speaker 2: I now, as a result of writing this.

500
00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:54,040
Speaker 3: Book, love it, but I have hated it, like I.

501
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:58,840
Speaker 2: Will be honest, it makes me very mad, but I

502
00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:01,119
Speaker 2: come to appreciate it, and you know, and it's just

503
00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:04,439
Speaker 2: I think as well. The thing with the manual is

504
00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:07,159
Speaker 2: there are chapters. It's obviously broken down by the body,

505
00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:10,359
Speaker 2: the fuel, the mind, and the fields, and there might

506
00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:13,199
Speaker 2: be certain chapters within those that you feel, as a

507
00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:16,760
Speaker 2: man you have a grasp of, but even reading them,

508
00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:20,600
Speaker 2: you get, like what you said in relation to Nick,

509
00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:23,240
Speaker 2: you get a perspective of maybe someone that's at a

510
00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:27,679
Speaker 2: different stage in that chapter to you are. So whilst

511
00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:31,720
Speaker 2: it's very much a manual for the individual, still reading

512
00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:34,280
Speaker 2: those chapters that you think you have an understanding of

513
00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:36,480
Speaker 2: it helps you maybe relate to people that are maybe

514
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:39,920
Speaker 2: just starting off in that. So it's also for the

515
00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:42,760
Speaker 2: men in your life and around you, which is another

516
00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:45,199
Speaker 2: chapter we talk about. Is you know that's great for

517
00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:47,840
Speaker 2: the health is kind of looking after your community and

518
00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:48,600
Speaker 2: those around you.

519
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:51,719
Speaker 1: I think it's really cool. How like in both like

520
00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:54,800
Speaker 1: the intro and the conclusion, but also kind of weave

521
00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:57,320
Speaker 1: throughout is the idea that masculinity started as like a

522
00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:00,320
Speaker 1: defined term. It was like this one concept that had

523
00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:05,560
Speaker 1: a dictionary definition. You're really inviting people to like find

524
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:09,080
Speaker 1: their own balance and definition because everyone will end up

525
00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:11,760
Speaker 1: at a different level. And that's okay. And that's the

526
00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:15,800
Speaker 1: same with everything, Like even it's not a judgmental book.

527
00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:17,919
Speaker 1: It's not like you need to be more soft and

528
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:19,840
Speaker 1: you need to be more masculine and you need to

529
00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:21,720
Speaker 1: have kind of all this balance. It's like it's okay

530
00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:24,680
Speaker 1: if you're a little bit more, you know, a little

531
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:27,399
Speaker 1: bit less open to sensitivity. You don't have to be

532
00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:29,640
Speaker 1: all the feels all the time. Like your balance could

533
00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:31,120
Speaker 1: be a little bit different if you're aware that that's

534
00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:33,760
Speaker 1: where you sit and kind of like that it's embracing

535
00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:37,239
Speaker 1: everyone's levels and you're just figuring out what works for you.

536
00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:38,480
Speaker 3: It's interesting, isn't it.

537
00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:41,080
Speaker 2: Like there's that Bill Bauman quote, the founder of Nike,

538
00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:44,800
Speaker 2: and it's if you have a body, you're an athlete. Well,

539
00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:47,960
Speaker 2: it's pretty much the same. Like if you identify as

540
00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:53,119
Speaker 2: a man, then how you are is masculine. Is masculinity,

541
00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:55,120
Speaker 2: you know, And that's kind of what we really wanted

542
00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:56,920
Speaker 2: to go back to, is like this is a great

543
00:26:56,960 --> 00:27:00,719
Speaker 2: guide book of options and how to healthy and how

544
00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:04,760
Speaker 2: to be happy, but ultimately masculinity is right for the

545
00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:08,360
Speaker 2: divining Yeah, and that was one of my favorite parts

546
00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:11,400
Speaker 2: of writing it and seeing it come, you.

547
00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:12,920
Speaker 3: Know, to what it is now.

548
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:17,240
Speaker 2: Actually was just seeing as we wrote it this constant

549
00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:22,000
Speaker 2: kind of like weaving back between chapters, in between parts

550
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:25,120
Speaker 2: of the book. And obviously we've separated out, like Scotty said,

551
00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:29,480
Speaker 2: into you know, the body, the feels, the mind, and

552
00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:33,119
Speaker 2: there's different chapters within those silos as well, but you know,

553
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:35,840
Speaker 2: it's just sort of seeing that this is just it's

554
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:39,480
Speaker 2: just a melting pot and everything relates back to everything else.

555
00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:44,560
Speaker 2: It's the chapter about sexuality and identity, you know, and

556
00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:48,440
Speaker 2: seeing how that relates back to the chapter on anxiety,

557
00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:52,240
Speaker 2: or the chapter on loneliness and connection. It's, you know,

558
00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:55,960
Speaker 2: seeing how they all kind of connected as we wrote.

559
00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:59,160
Speaker 2: It was one of my favorite sort of things about

560
00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:02,399
Speaker 2: the process because because it just shows exactly as you

561
00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:05,080
Speaker 2: just said here that it's it's not about one way

562
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:09,320
Speaker 2: of defining it. It's just this the gold melting pot

563
00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:14,280
Speaker 2: of throwing that you feel aligned with you most as

564
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:16,040
Speaker 2: a man, or that you might need to work on

565
00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:18,159
Speaker 2: them a little bit more, or that you're feeling pretty

566
00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:20,919
Speaker 2: good about or not so good about in certain ways.

567
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:24,040
Speaker 2: And yeah, for me, that was one of the and

568
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:28,480
Speaker 2: the twist at the end, yeah shocked.

569
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:31,760
Speaker 1: I fell off my chair. I was like, holy shit, balls.

570
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:36,760
Speaker 3: Like a medical mystery that we can ourselves.

571
00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:41,120
Speaker 1: Yes, we are the main characters in our own story

572
00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:45,240
Speaker 1: who done it. But I also think it's really cool

573
00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:48,080
Speaker 1: how like, as you said, you link things from all

574
00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:51,480
Speaker 1: areas of life and don't shy away from a like

575
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:54,959
Speaker 1: anecdotal evidence that really you both get very vulnerable in

576
00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:57,400
Speaker 1: lots of parts where you move from the science to

577
00:28:57,480 --> 00:28:59,240
Speaker 1: like even in a different font you kind of come

578
00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:01,600
Speaker 1: in with your own story, but you cover things that

579
00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:06,200
Speaker 1: are you know, still like quite stigmatized, like illicit drugs, steroids,

580
00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:09,000
Speaker 1: Like dudes don't talk about steroids. But body image is

581
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:12,840
Speaker 1: possibly even bigger for men because it's not ventilated as

582
00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:15,320
Speaker 1: much as it is for women, like and we've spoken

583
00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:17,080
Speaker 1: about that in both of our episodes. I love that

584
00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:19,160
Speaker 1: you guys hit those things really head on because it

585
00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:23,240
Speaker 1: is something that most guys think about, they have these conversations.

586
00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:25,040
Speaker 1: And I like that you've kind of covered everything and

587
00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:27,240
Speaker 1: linked it back to well, this is actually related to

588
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:30,120
Speaker 1: your mood, This is related to the feelds, even though

589
00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:32,920
Speaker 1: it's actually starts as a visual thing. Like everything connects,

590
00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:36,280
Speaker 1: and I think you've done that brilliantly to dish them

591
00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:39,000
Speaker 1: behind the sceneses dirt. Is there anything that you guys

592
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:42,200
Speaker 1: disagreed on because you wrote it together and I know

593
00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:44,040
Speaker 1: you kind of took turns with different chapters and then

594
00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:46,040
Speaker 1: had to marry it all to have one tone. Was

595
00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:48,280
Speaker 1: there anything that you were like that you fought over?

596
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:53,720
Speaker 3: Good question, Actually think that there was no.

597
00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:56,880
Speaker 2: I'm trying to like, I want to give you some time.

598
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:02,360
Speaker 2: I think I even like remember, like we.

599
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:04,560
Speaker 3: Very like.

600
00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:07,600
Speaker 2: We were like I remember when we got the book

601
00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:08,840
Speaker 2: deal and we were like, oh, we're going to go

602
00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:11,479
Speaker 2: to like cafes in New York and write and go

603
00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:13,880
Speaker 2: on writing retreats. And we actually did go on a

604
00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:17,120
Speaker 2: writing retreat the first thing. So we went away to

605
00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:20,400
Speaker 2: Kangaroo Valley like no reception. We just spent like three

606
00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:24,960
Speaker 2: days planning, and I literally think we were like, oh,

607
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:27,160
Speaker 2: what about this chapter? And we were like, Oh, that's

608
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:29,520
Speaker 2: the idea, Let's go do a work. And then we

609
00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:32,440
Speaker 2: would come back and we'd be like, Okay, what about

610
00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:35,240
Speaker 2: a chapter on this. Oh brilliant, let's go like do

611
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:38,040
Speaker 2: Like it was just the most cliche helpful thing you've

612
00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:41,440
Speaker 2: ever seen, but it like was so I just think

613
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:43,360
Speaker 2: everything was kind of easy, and one of us would

614
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:45,200
Speaker 2: have an idea and we would say what about this?

615
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:48,360
Speaker 2: And there were some things actually that didn't work and

616
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:50,200
Speaker 2: we were like, cool, why don't we pull back there?

617
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:52,080
Speaker 2: And then the other one would just be like, you

618
00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:54,560
Speaker 2: know what, spot on? And I don't know, I feel

619
00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:58,120
Speaker 2: like maybe we just kind of have that we were

620
00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:01,520
Speaker 2: just in sync the whole way through. Where is I

621
00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:04,120
Speaker 2: mean we kind of have I guess two half brains

622
00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:06,640
Speaker 2: and between us, we have one I don't know, I.

623
00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:09,840
Speaker 3: Don't know how we has three quarters and I have.

624
00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:14,240
Speaker 2: A quarter and I just but it just like we

625
00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:18,040
Speaker 2: were like it was almost like bouncing ideas off ourselves,

626
00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:21,600
Speaker 2: you know. And I think we were just so before, during,

627
00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:26,840
Speaker 2: and after just so on in terms of that holistic

628
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:31,080
Speaker 2: kind of we want this to be all parts of

629
00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:33,960
Speaker 2: the melting pot, and it just it did kind of

630
00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:36,520
Speaker 2: come together in terms of what we included and how,

631
00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:40,560
Speaker 2: and I think from that stage everything we kind of

632
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:45,360
Speaker 2: agreed on and it was almost maybe like ridiculously too

633
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:47,080
Speaker 2: easy and how sink we in sync?

634
00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:50,160
Speaker 3: We were we kind of would you know, we'd.

635
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:52,040
Speaker 2: Come up with a chapter idea and then celebrate with

636
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:54,520
Speaker 2: the workout, and we'd come up we'd be like, oh,

637
00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:57,000
Speaker 2: what about this idea for a chapter? Oh brilliant, cool,

638
00:31:57,040 --> 00:31:59,880
Speaker 2: Like let's go get a smoothie. Like yeah, it was.

639
00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:05,280
Speaker 2: It was overly productive on a very rapid timescale. But

640
00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:07,560
Speaker 2: it was also super cliche in terms of the health retreat,

641
00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:09,120
Speaker 2: you know, like we were saying just saying before, I

642
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:11,960
Speaker 2: think we have two half brains and together we are

643
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:12,680
Speaker 2: a full brain.

644
00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:22,400
Speaker 1: Lovely neighborhood. Just a quick break to sing the praises

645
00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:25,160
Speaker 1: of our partner in Ya this week, the amazing team

646
00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:28,400
Speaker 1: at HP Australia. For my fellow business owners. We all

647
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:31,440
Speaker 1: know how stressful running a business can be, and even

648
00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:34,480
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649
00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:36,960
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650
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651
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652
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655
00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:56,120
Speaker 1: When our ink or Tona levels are getting low, a

656
00:32:56,160 --> 00:33:00,120
Speaker 1: new cartridge is automatically shipped before we even need it,

657
00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:04,400
Speaker 1: so you never run out. Recycling is also included. Plus

658
00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:06,800
Speaker 1: you can save up to fifty percent on ink and

659
00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:10,640
Speaker 1: tone it this way. It will revolutionize your business. I'll

660
00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:13,200
Speaker 1: pop the link to more in the show notes and

661
00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:16,600
Speaker 1: by the way, you are welcome now back to the show.

662
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:26,360
Speaker 1: You guys have done such an amazing job, particularly at

663
00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:28,840
Speaker 1: writing it together, and then you know the tone of

664
00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:32,520
Speaker 1: the book. You can't actually tell who's written each part

665
00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:35,880
Speaker 1: except for your own anecdotal stories and one of them,

666
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:37,880
Speaker 1: which only as much as you guys are comfortable to

667
00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:40,840
Speaker 1: talk about in There's a beautiful quote. You mentioned one,

668
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:43,160
Speaker 1: but there was another one that I wrote down from

669
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:46,920
Speaker 1: Alan Down's contentment is created when our behavior is consistent

670
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:50,520
Speaker 1: with our values. And I think one of the kind

671
00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:53,440
Speaker 1: of common themes of this show is that happiness only

672
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:58,160
Speaker 1: really emerges for people once they start coming back into

673
00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:00,640
Speaker 1: line with the things that they really love, that they're

674
00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:03,640
Speaker 1: really passionate about. They stop kind of making decisions based

675
00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:08,600
Speaker 1: on external definitions societal values, what they think they should do,

676
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:13,120
Speaker 1: other people's pathways, and it kind of causes illness and

677
00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:15,759
Speaker 1: unhappiness when you aren't living in line with you know,

678
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:17,680
Speaker 1: who you're supposed to be. And then the real magic

679
00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:20,600
Speaker 1: happens when people take big jumps in their life, often

680
00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:23,600
Speaker 1: into discomfort, and become who they really are. So, Scott,

681
00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:27,160
Speaker 1: you mentioned that quote in relation to you coming out

682
00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:31,040
Speaker 1: recently at the age of thirty two, which is quite

683
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:34,840
Speaker 1: late relatively There is no timeline for life, but is

684
00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:38,280
Speaker 1: you know, relatively late to kind of realize that yourself

685
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:39,680
Speaker 1: to have even you said that it was the first

686
00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:42,560
Speaker 1: time you'd even set the sentence to yourself and I

687
00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:48,920
Speaker 1: think that's a huge part of redefining sexuality, masculinity, identity

688
00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:51,000
Speaker 1: all in different ways. That covers so many topics, And

689
00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:53,759
Speaker 1: you really open up in this particular chapter about that.

690
00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:57,000
Speaker 1: I haven't spoken to you since then, so and you

691
00:34:57,080 --> 00:35:00,440
Speaker 1: wrote a beautiful editor's letter in Men's Health kind of

692
00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:03,640
Speaker 1: really speaking about it for the first time. What has

693
00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:05,279
Speaker 1: that been like for you in terms of in the

694
00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:09,080
Speaker 1: context of that quote and finding contentment in realizing a

695
00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:10,560
Speaker 1: big part of yourself that you didn't know.

696
00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:15,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, it's been a journey of which Kiaran has

697
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:19,920
Speaker 2: been along for the ride. I think it got to

698
00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:24,600
Speaker 2: a point for me in twenty twenty where kind of

699
00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:28,359
Speaker 2: late twenty nineteen I recognized it within myself and I

700
00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:31,160
Speaker 2: was like cool, just because I'm a very kind of,

701
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:34,000
Speaker 2: like I guess, pragmatic kind of person, I was like cool.

702
00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:37,160
Speaker 3: Twenty twenty news resolution, deal with that in the new year,

703
00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:37,879
Speaker 3: deal with that.

704
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:43,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, to sell no to self bega this year.

705
00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:47,800
Speaker 1: And knew me to a whole new level.

706
00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:49,440
Speaker 3: Yeah. See again.

707
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:55,600
Speaker 2: Anyway, obviously had a lot of time, like we all

708
00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:58,200
Speaker 2: did in twenty twenty for self reflection, but I think

709
00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:00,960
Speaker 2: there was a point in twenty twenty where Men's Health.

710
00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:03,759
Speaker 2: We got sold, and then the company that bought us

711
00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:05,719
Speaker 2: shut us down on the first day that they bought us.

712
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:08,960
Speaker 3: I did not handle it very well. Things were thrown

713
00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:11,640
Speaker 3: that first week.

714
00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:14,239
Speaker 2: Was just because I had tied my whole personality up

715
00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:16,640
Speaker 2: to my job and this world of mental health and

716
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:20,000
Speaker 2: on reflection and having time. It was kind of one

717
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:21,960
Speaker 2: of those things where I'd made that my whole identity

718
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:24,000
Speaker 2: and I hadn't actually taken on board a lot of

719
00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:26,760
Speaker 2: the stuff that we were reporting on or the advice

720
00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:29,200
Speaker 2: that we were giving men. So I kind of went

721
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:32,640
Speaker 2: back through kind of issues we'd worked on and kind

722
00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:36,279
Speaker 2: of what we were I guess encouraging men to do.

723
00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:39,640
Speaker 2: And yeah, I hadn't been really taking that advice on myself.

724
00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:42,920
Speaker 2: So reconciled it. I came out to my family pretty quickly,

725
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:47,080
Speaker 2: and yeah, I guess just kind of allowed myself the

726
00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:50,359
Speaker 2: space to be. The mind is a really funny thing.

727
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:54,560
Speaker 2: I had never given myself that as an option for myself. Internally,

728
00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:56,520
Speaker 2: I knew I wasn't happy, but I kind of never

729
00:36:56,560 --> 00:36:58,680
Speaker 2: addressed it and I never looked for a reason why,

730
00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:02,400
Speaker 2: and I never let that be option. So just allowing

731
00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:06,520
Speaker 2: myself the space to explore that was really healthy and healing,

732
00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:08,960
Speaker 2: and I throw much less.

733
00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:16,720
Speaker 3: I get thrown at me, and.

734
00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:19,520
Speaker 2: I think, just you know, there's a lot of like

735
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:22,879
Speaker 2: a I don't know, it's it's fear, and it's it's

736
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:26,720
Speaker 2: a lot of it is just from yourself. And I think,

737
00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:29,360
Speaker 2: you know, one of the best paces of advice that

738
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:31,239
Speaker 2: I've ever been given. And I wish I could like

739
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:34,160
Speaker 2: attribute it to someone, but it might even be Brenee Brown,

740
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:37,640
Speaker 2: but it's you know, when talking to yourself, think, you know,

741
00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:40,880
Speaker 2: how would you talk to someone that you know or

742
00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:43,200
Speaker 2: you care about or your friend and do you talk

743
00:37:43,239 --> 00:37:45,239
Speaker 2: to yourself the same way? And that for me was

744
00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:47,880
Speaker 2: a real like light change moment because I was just

745
00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:50,319
Speaker 2: talking to myself like I would never even talk to

746
00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:51,520
Speaker 2: my worst enemy.

747
00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:53,280
Speaker 3: The way I was talking with myself.

748
00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:58,200
Speaker 2: It was disgusting and why, Like I mean, I am

749
00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:00,200
Speaker 2: forced to spend all day with me, so I'm as

750
00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:02,200
Speaker 2: well be nice to me and make friends with myself,

751
00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:05,160
Speaker 2: you know, So that really like refrained how I think.

752
00:38:05,239 --> 00:38:07,680
Speaker 2: And you know, I think just approaching myself with kindness

753
00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:10,240
Speaker 2: and forgiveness and allowances just really helped.

754
00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:12,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's so interesting you said that you'd

755
00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:15,839
Speaker 1: never even considered it as an option, because I think

756
00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:18,440
Speaker 1: one of the things that people who haven't had a

757
00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:21,920
Speaker 1: similar experience would like my initial reaction is kind of like,

758
00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:25,200
Speaker 1: I can't imagine such a big part of my identity

759
00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:27,839
Speaker 1: being suppressed for so long, But then you saying it

760
00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:30,640
Speaker 1: wasn't even suppressed, like it wasn't even there, Like I

761
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:34,560
Speaker 1: just didn't even let my brain acknowledge it. That's how

762
00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:38,879
Speaker 1: deep the kind of level of your definition of who

763
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:41,160
Speaker 1: you were was impacted that you didn't even think about it,

764
00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:44,320
Speaker 1: let alone think about it, acknowledge it, then suppress it.

765
00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:46,960
Speaker 1: It wasn't even that far. Like that's just mind blowing

766
00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:47,200
Speaker 1: to me.

767
00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:49,960
Speaker 2: Brain is a powerful thing, but it can be powerful

768
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:51,960
Speaker 2: in like a negative way as well. And I kind

769
00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:55,760
Speaker 2: of I still probably haven't fully unpacked that time psychologically,

770
00:38:55,840 --> 00:38:58,839
Speaker 2: So when Karan is in the country, I will give

771
00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:02,759
Speaker 2: him a call and because some sestions, but you know,

772
00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:06,480
Speaker 2: it just it is weird, like you just I don't know.

773
00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:09,240
Speaker 2: I was just able to compartmentalize that part of my life.

774
00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:11,279
Speaker 2: And you know, I don't date because I'm busy, and

775
00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:14,400
Speaker 2: I don't necessarily regret that decision because I've had a

776
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:17,680
Speaker 2: great career and kind of got to where where I

777
00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:20,120
Speaker 2: got to, and I have loved my career. I don't

778
00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:21,480
Speaker 2: know that I would have got that far if I

779
00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:24,560
Speaker 2: was an openly out man. I'm just being honest. Who knows,

780
00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:27,080
Speaker 2: But it all kind of worked out well. I'm happy

781
00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:31,440
Speaker 2: now and yeah, and such like a I don't know,

782
00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:33,760
Speaker 2: just in terms of how things came around as well.

783
00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:37,239
Speaker 2: And you know, obviously no secret either in terms of

784
00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:41,719
Speaker 2: you know, my sexuality and partner now and things, and

785
00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:45,640
Speaker 2: you know, just amazing kind of over the last few

786
00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:48,280
Speaker 2: years of us writing this book together and talking about

787
00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:51,160
Speaker 2: these things and being passionate about the science and medicine

788
00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:55,120
Speaker 2: of it, almost sort of us journeying through that at

789
00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:57,520
Speaker 2: the same time in our personal lives as well. And

790
00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:02,320
Speaker 2: obviously even if my store journey is a little different

791
00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:07,600
Speaker 2: to Scotti's in terms of you know, men, women, sexuality,

792
00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:11,280
Speaker 2: identity and things, but I think that process of coming

793
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:13,960
Speaker 2: to terms with them more within yourself, coming to terms

794
00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:18,120
Speaker 2: with kind of other people knowing, or that process of

795
00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:21,200
Speaker 2: coming out or you being more open and out there

796
00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:24,840
Speaker 2: with things. It's yeah, you know, it's it's been this

797
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:28,960
Speaker 2: amazing process of kind of personal growth in journeys as

798
00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:33,040
Speaker 2: the book has also grown and journeyed as well. I

799
00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:35,880
Speaker 2: think I remember our publisher very early on saying, like,

800
00:40:36,719 --> 00:40:39,960
Speaker 2: you guys are writing a book and writing about things

801
00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:45,960
Speaker 2: for the modern man that you're both stepping into going

802
00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:50,440
Speaker 2: through yourselves or representing yourselves personally, which it's far too

803
00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:53,719
Speaker 2: humbling and for me because I was like, yeah it was.

804
00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:55,880
Speaker 2: I just felt like a hurricane of chaos. So I

805
00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:58,759
Speaker 2: don't know what I'm doing, but it was interesting. I mean,

806
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:02,440
Speaker 2: even like sexuality side. So the beginning of this year,

807
00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:05,680
Speaker 2: I ended up in hospital and I had that blood

808
00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:09,120
Speaker 2: like clots in my lungs. And it was interesting though,

809
00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:12,919
Speaker 2: like looking back because if we you know, writing this book,

810
00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:15,040
Speaker 2: it made us very aware of like how we live

811
00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:17,520
Speaker 2: our lives and kind of living healthy and you know,

812
00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:20,279
Speaker 2: it was a reminders to keep active every day and

813
00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:24,040
Speaker 2: eat well and you know, be mindful. And it's funny

814
00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:27,399
Speaker 2: looking back as we were writing that we were doing

815
00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:30,759
Speaker 2: those things and I was having We've been talking about it,

816
00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:32,840
Speaker 2: like the six months prior to trouble breathing, and I

817
00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:35,400
Speaker 2: was like, this is really weird, but keep living your

818
00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:38,040
Speaker 2: best life and like look after yourself and that sort

819
00:41:38,040 --> 00:41:41,040
Speaker 2: of thing, and I feel like we were like inadvertently,

820
00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:45,360
Speaker 2: I was like preventative medicine just from lessons from this book,

821
00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:48,480
Speaker 2: which ultimately could have saved it from being a worse

822
00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:52,160
Speaker 2: kind of situation. So, you know, sexuality, going through those

823
00:41:52,239 --> 00:41:55,800
Speaker 2: journeys together physically kind of having like health issues.

824
00:41:56,200 --> 00:41:57,200
Speaker 3: It really was.

825
00:41:57,920 --> 00:41:59,759
Speaker 2: I mean it's so cliche that the lessons from this

826
00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:04,000
Speaker 2: book really kind of have helped us as authors. Actually

827
00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:08,680
Speaker 2: I've actually been a great manual for health and happiness. Yeah,

828
00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:11,759
Speaker 2: And hopefully that comes across from the book, as you says,

829
00:42:11,880 --> 00:42:15,400
Speaker 2: there are with the anecdotes and things that we've put in,

830
00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:19,239
Speaker 2: you know, just about our personal journeys and lives and

831
00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:23,640
Speaker 2: whether it's plant, that's diet, sexuality or whatever it is.

832
00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:26,560
Speaker 2: I think us kind of, as you say, growing with

833
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:29,960
Speaker 2: the book and having an opportunity to put parts of

834
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:33,520
Speaker 2: ourselves in there to make it hopefully more.

835
00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:39,200
Speaker 3: Real and relatable and you know, textbook like. I think

836
00:42:39,239 --> 00:42:40,839
Speaker 3: that's been a beautiful part of it too.

837
00:42:41,040 --> 00:42:43,759
Speaker 1: I think that comes across so strongly. And I heard

838
00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:45,760
Speaker 1: someone say I can't even remember who it was again,

839
00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:48,359
Speaker 1: I wish I could attribute it correctly, But someone say

840
00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:50,839
Speaker 1: that you often write the book that you need. And

841
00:42:50,920 --> 00:42:53,439
Speaker 1: I think it's like when I was writing my book,

842
00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:56,040
Speaker 1: it's I can't explain to someone who hasn't sat down

843
00:42:56,080 --> 00:42:58,359
Speaker 1: to do it how cathartic it is to actually sit

844
00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:02,839
Speaker 1: down and write everything you think and know and think

845
00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:05,640
Speaker 1: you know and want to know and don't know. It's

846
00:43:05,719 --> 00:43:10,520
Speaker 1: like trying to body yourself in a permanent kind of record,

847
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:13,160
Speaker 1: and that teaches you so much. It teaches you where

848
00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:15,000
Speaker 1: the gaps are, It teaches you where the strengths are.

849
00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:16,719
Speaker 1: You realize you did know a lot of stuff where

850
00:43:16,719 --> 00:43:18,600
Speaker 1: you were stronger than your thought. But it also teaches

851
00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:20,960
Speaker 1: you things that you're maybe still in the process of

852
00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:23,000
Speaker 1: and kind of helps you work through those to actually

853
00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:25,880
Speaker 1: sort through those thoughts, to put them into a sentence

854
00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:27,960
Speaker 1: that someone else could understand. And I think you can

855
00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:30,399
Speaker 1: see that you guys are doing that. But it's also

856
00:43:30,480 --> 00:43:34,719
Speaker 1: I just I think conversations on coming out and sexuality

857
00:43:34,760 --> 00:43:37,120
Speaker 1: and any other big changes in identity can be really

858
00:43:37,120 --> 00:43:39,120
Speaker 1: difficult because other people tend to make a really big

859
00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:40,880
Speaker 1: deal about it because it is a big an ounce. Man,

860
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:43,879
Speaker 1: it's a big change, but other people kind of say, look,

861
00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:45,960
Speaker 1: it's the least interesting thing about me, Like why is

862
00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:48,239
Speaker 1: this the only thing you're focusing on? So I get

863
00:43:48,239 --> 00:43:50,279
Speaker 1: the difficulty and like it's so big, but it's also

864
00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:52,840
Speaker 1: like really not a big deal. But I just have

865
00:43:52,920 --> 00:43:56,000
Speaker 1: to commend you both because I really think that so

866
00:43:56,160 --> 00:43:59,319
Speaker 1: many people who had made it to your age or

867
00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:02,840
Speaker 1: stage in life, life or careers, particularly in the area

868
00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:05,960
Speaker 1: of men's health and masculinity, might not have been so

869
00:44:06,719 --> 00:44:10,480
Speaker 1: brave in acknowledging it to yourselves first, but then coming

870
00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:12,799
Speaker 1: out publicly with it in a way that I think

871
00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:16,400
Speaker 1: helps so many and reassure so many other people, not

872
00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:18,759
Speaker 1: necessarily just in sexuality, but that it's okay at any

873
00:44:18,760 --> 00:44:21,680
Speaker 1: time in your life to realize something about yourself and

874
00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:24,799
Speaker 1: come out with that it's actually okay. It's scary, it's

875
00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:28,120
Speaker 1: a big change. You'll have a reaction from society and

876
00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:31,680
Speaker 1: people and your friends and family, positive, negative, whatever it

877
00:44:31,719 --> 00:44:35,040
Speaker 1: may be. But it's extraordinary that you guys have shared

878
00:44:35,040 --> 00:44:37,760
Speaker 1: that so openly, I think, in a book or otherwise.

879
00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:39,759
Speaker 1: And it's been really wonderful to follow both of your

880
00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:42,759
Speaker 1: journeys around that because I'm sure it is inspiring a

881
00:44:42,760 --> 00:44:44,120
Speaker 1: lot of other people, men and women.

882
00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:47,040
Speaker 2: Thank you, Matte, And I think just as you say,

883
00:44:47,080 --> 00:44:50,560
Speaker 2: I think it doesn't just have to pertain to sexuality

884
00:44:50,719 --> 00:44:54,480
Speaker 2: or gender. You know, it's been us also writing little

885
00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:57,759
Speaker 2: bits in the book about, you know, how we've had

886
00:44:57,800 --> 00:45:01,759
Speaker 2: periods where we struggled with anxiety or mental health or loneliness,

887
00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:04,640
Speaker 2: for example. And I think that as you say, that

888
00:45:04,719 --> 00:45:08,080
Speaker 2: idea of knowing that, especially as a man, which has

889
00:45:08,120 --> 00:45:11,320
Speaker 2: been so narrowed and pressed I think for so many

890
00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:15,400
Speaker 2: decades and centuries in terms of what you show and

891
00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:18,680
Speaker 2: who you are and who you aren't stepping into that

892
00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:24,560
Speaker 2: ethos now of it's okay to be any of those

893
00:45:24,600 --> 00:45:27,320
Speaker 2: things and to share any of those things, and to

894
00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:31,120
Speaker 2: sort of step into them with kindness to yourself and vulnerability.

895
00:45:31,239 --> 00:45:33,960
Speaker 3: And you know, whether it's where.

896
00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:35,920
Speaker 2: You're at and your fitness journey or where you're at

897
00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:40,880
Speaker 2: with your diet or not so much diet, or sexuality, relationships,

898
00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:44,320
Speaker 2: mental health. I think one of the things we wanted

899
00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:46,280
Speaker 2: to put across in the book was that it's okay

900
00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:48,800
Speaker 2: to be at any stage that you're at with those things,

901
00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:52,560
Speaker 2: and it's also okay to define yourself and your masculinity

902
00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:59,000
Speaker 2: within any of those things. Wow, doesn't have to be perfect,

903
00:45:59,480 --> 00:46:05,520
Speaker 2: that's for or I am definitely an exemple for that,

904
00:46:05,640 --> 00:46:07,520
Speaker 2: but also like who wants perfect?

905
00:46:07,719 --> 00:46:12,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, boring, boring, boring bors veil life, it.

906
00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:16,000
Speaker 2: Was perfect, the book would be pretty boring or age?

907
00:46:20,880 --> 00:46:23,600
Speaker 1: Have either of you just while we're sort of, you know,

908
00:46:24,239 --> 00:46:28,000
Speaker 1: covering such a fresh experience for both of you, have

909
00:46:28,160 --> 00:46:30,799
Speaker 1: either of you had, and also because so much of

910
00:46:30,840 --> 00:46:34,160
Speaker 1: the book is about kind of letting go of fear

911
00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:37,720
Speaker 1: of judgment and accepting that there will be really positive,

912
00:46:37,719 --> 00:46:41,200
Speaker 1: embraceive reactions and sometimes maybe not necessarily that kind of

913
00:46:41,200 --> 00:46:43,480
Speaker 1: reaction to ways that you choose to live your life.

914
00:46:43,640 --> 00:46:48,680
Speaker 1: Have either of you had trouble or challenges in people's

915
00:46:48,719 --> 00:46:52,480
Speaker 1: reactions since you've come out, as people's behavior towards you changed,

916
00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:56,520
Speaker 1: has anything become different in a way that's challenged you,

917
00:46:56,680 --> 00:46:59,160
Speaker 1: or that you might say as kind of a temperature

918
00:46:59,239 --> 00:47:01,799
Speaker 1: check on men's healthy in general, that you really want

919
00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:04,360
Speaker 1: to kind of acknowledge.

920
00:47:04,600 --> 00:47:06,200
Speaker 3: I think not on me personally.

921
00:47:06,239 --> 00:47:10,000
Speaker 2: I think I've become more aware of conversations in wider

922
00:47:10,040 --> 00:47:14,120
Speaker 2: society on both sides. And I was actually thinking about

923
00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:17,600
Speaker 2: this this morning, that it's kind of weird to have

924
00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:23,560
Speaker 2: people dissect your life on your behalf, and I was like,

925
00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:28,640
Speaker 2: especially when they're against it, And I don't know, I've always,

926
00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:31,959
Speaker 2: you know, in any aspect, just kind of believed like, well,

927
00:47:32,360 --> 00:47:35,360
Speaker 2: if people are happy and it's not impacting you in

928
00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:39,120
Speaker 2: a negative way, it's kind of like not your business.

929
00:47:39,480 --> 00:47:41,200
Speaker 1: Like you know, it's got nothing to do with you.

930
00:47:41,440 --> 00:47:43,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I just think it's just funny.

931
00:47:43,680 --> 00:47:46,440
Speaker 2: I mean, like you use the US as the easy example,

932
00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:50,279
Speaker 2: but I guess kind of the Internet at large, there

933
00:47:51,040 --> 00:47:55,080
Speaker 2: there's a very strong divide between two sides, and both

934
00:47:55,120 --> 00:47:58,520
Speaker 2: sides are kind of just talking into a void and

935
00:47:58,560 --> 00:48:02,520
Speaker 2: no one's actually listening. It's not a conversation. It's like

936
00:48:02,640 --> 00:48:06,680
Speaker 2: a yelling man, and kind of both sides are like

937
00:48:06,760 --> 00:48:08,520
Speaker 2: in the wrong in the way that they're approaching that,

938
00:48:08,600 --> 00:48:11,920
Speaker 2: And you know, you might. I just think that's where

939
00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:15,480
Speaker 2: this is, this kind of whole divide and divisive kind

940
00:48:15,480 --> 00:48:18,920
Speaker 2: of rhetoric. It's always existed. People have different opinions, and

941
00:48:18,920 --> 00:48:22,240
Speaker 2: that's beautiful about humans. If we all have the same opinions,

942
00:48:22,239 --> 00:48:24,719
Speaker 2: there would be no conversations, there would be no we

943
00:48:24,719 --> 00:48:26,640
Speaker 2: wouldn't be able to work on each other and kind

944
00:48:26,640 --> 00:48:29,799
Speaker 2: of improve. But just the way I think we're approaching it,

945
00:48:29,800 --> 00:48:34,000
Speaker 2: it's like cool, you don't agree with me like dismissed,

946
00:48:34,200 --> 00:48:37,160
Speaker 2: not even listening. You know, like you can be friends

947
00:48:37,239 --> 00:48:40,799
Speaker 2: with people that have different political views to you. We

948
00:48:40,920 --> 00:48:43,760
Speaker 2: have to work with people that don't agree on everything

949
00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:46,480
Speaker 2: with us. We're going to part of living is coming

950
00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:49,919
Speaker 2: across people who are different us, and so thank god,

951
00:48:50,360 --> 00:48:52,520
Speaker 2: thank God for that, and there has to be a

952
00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:55,279
Speaker 2: tolerance and like, who knows, there might be aspects of

953
00:48:55,280 --> 00:48:57,759
Speaker 2: that person or their opinion that resonate with you and

954
00:48:58,400 --> 00:48:58,959
Speaker 2: you can grow.

955
00:48:59,440 --> 00:49:01,719
Speaker 3: I don't know that that's view based. I don't have

956
00:49:02,040 --> 00:49:04,200
Speaker 3: the it. When I do, I'll put them into it.

957
00:49:04,680 --> 00:49:10,399
Speaker 2: And yeah, no, and same for me, like I think,

958
00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:14,320
Speaker 2: you know, and it sounds so corny, but like, especially

959
00:49:14,360 --> 00:49:18,400
Speaker 2: on reflection now, for me, the whole journey and things

960
00:49:18,440 --> 00:49:23,200
Speaker 2: has just shown, you know, obviously some not so good

961
00:49:23,239 --> 00:49:26,920
Speaker 2: sides to humanity and people's opinions and views, but for

962
00:49:26,960 --> 00:49:30,399
Speaker 2: the most part, it's shown I think the just the

963
00:49:30,520 --> 00:49:34,640
Speaker 2: beauty of that kind of vulnerability and connection and whether

964
00:49:34,680 --> 00:49:40,120
Speaker 2: it's been family, friends, colleagues, just that just that sense

965
00:49:40,280 --> 00:49:44,840
Speaker 2: of you know, support has just been especially initially.

966
00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:45,680
Speaker 3: Really quite overwhelming.

967
00:49:46,080 --> 00:49:49,200
Speaker 2: But yeah, I think, as Scotty sort of mentioned before,

968
00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:52,120
Speaker 2: I think one of the interesting things has been sort

969
00:49:52,120 --> 00:49:55,040
Speaker 2: of stepping into Okay, well this is me and this

970
00:49:55,239 --> 00:49:58,640
Speaker 2: is my life, and you know, for example, being a

971
00:49:58,680 --> 00:50:01,080
Speaker 2: little bit more open in terms of this is my

972
00:50:01,200 --> 00:50:04,440
Speaker 2: partner and having people see that on more of a

973
00:50:04,480 --> 00:50:08,759
Speaker 2: public sort of social media presence type scale. It's been

974
00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:13,560
Speaker 2: sort of this sense of buffering with but I'm still

975
00:50:13,640 --> 00:50:16,359
Speaker 2: me and that is an important part of me. But

976
00:50:16,400 --> 00:50:19,719
Speaker 2: it's as you said before, Sarah's not the only part

977
00:50:19,760 --> 00:50:22,000
Speaker 2: of me. And I think a lot of people, whether

978
00:50:22,040 --> 00:50:24,359
Speaker 2: it's mental health, sexuality, or whatever it is, I think

979
00:50:24,400 --> 00:50:27,000
Speaker 2: some of these things you can get made to sort

980
00:50:27,040 --> 00:50:28,600
Speaker 2: of feel at times.

981
00:50:28,200 --> 00:50:32,200
Speaker 3: Are the all of you, and that's kind of all.

982
00:50:32,040 --> 00:50:34,680
Speaker 2: Your identity is and all you want to hear feedback

983
00:50:34,719 --> 00:50:37,120
Speaker 2: on and all you want to talk about. Yeah, so

984
00:50:37,239 --> 00:50:41,600
Speaker 2: kind of buffering that within you know, myself, but buffering

985
00:50:41,640 --> 00:50:44,279
Speaker 2: it in terms of the information we wanted to put

986
00:50:44,280 --> 00:50:48,040
Speaker 2: across in the book, representing for younger men or men

987
00:50:48,120 --> 00:50:51,120
Speaker 2: going through some of the same kind of things.

988
00:50:51,560 --> 00:50:54,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's been an interesting part of the journey.

989
00:50:56,239 --> 00:51:00,120
Speaker 1: Well, you guys have just shared so generously on you know,

990
00:51:00,200 --> 00:51:03,000
Speaker 1: really how so many areas of your life have felt

991
00:51:03,080 --> 00:51:06,359
Speaker 1: and how you have changed and the journey even though

992
00:51:06,360 --> 00:51:07,919
Speaker 1: I hate using that word, but really it's the only

993
00:51:07,960 --> 00:51:11,319
Speaker 1: appropriate word in so many of these situations. If you

994
00:51:11,440 --> 00:51:16,000
Speaker 1: guys had say one thing, like if you knew that

995
00:51:16,040 --> 00:51:19,319
Speaker 1: you had someone's attention for like thirty seconds to just

996
00:51:20,080 --> 00:51:22,839
Speaker 1: explain what you want people to know about ment health

997
00:51:22,840 --> 00:51:25,640
Speaker 1: that they don't already know, or a topic that you

998
00:51:25,680 --> 00:51:27,560
Speaker 1: think is the most important for young men to be

999
00:51:27,560 --> 00:51:30,360
Speaker 1: talking about or everyone to be talking about in relation to,

1000
00:51:30,840 --> 00:51:33,600
Speaker 1: you know, the next generation of men, and the thing

1001
00:51:33,640 --> 00:51:34,879
Speaker 1: that you want people to get out of the book

1002
00:51:34,920 --> 00:51:36,440
Speaker 1: the most, like what would it be? Is there a

1003
00:51:36,480 --> 00:51:40,239
Speaker 1: statistic that you came across in your research, or a

1004
00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:42,759
Speaker 1: concept or just something that you're sort of like, this

1005
00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:46,080
Speaker 1: is the essence of what I'm trying to get out there.

1006
00:51:46,280 --> 00:51:49,640
Speaker 2: I mean, I think as per because I ramble and

1007
00:51:49,640 --> 00:51:54,560
Speaker 2: I'm far too for both based on the closity twenty seconds,

1008
00:51:55,160 --> 00:51:58,799
Speaker 2: I just think all of the stats, you know, a

1009
00:51:58,800 --> 00:52:02,839
Speaker 2: lot of them are alarmingly high. But the beauty of

1010
00:52:02,880 --> 00:52:05,839
Speaker 2: that for me, and one of the messages is that men,

1011
00:52:06,200 --> 00:52:08,319
Speaker 2: no matter where you're at and what age you are,

1012
00:52:08,800 --> 00:52:11,719
Speaker 2: you know, men are not alone in dealing with some

1013
00:52:11,760 --> 00:52:14,040
Speaker 2: of these things, struggling with some of these things, feeling

1014
00:52:14,080 --> 00:52:18,080
Speaker 2: some of these things, body image, mental health, sexuality. You

1015
00:52:18,120 --> 00:52:20,279
Speaker 2: know you're not alone, so I think for me that's

1016
00:52:20,280 --> 00:52:28,799
Speaker 2: a big one. Also, counting down using your pinky is

1017
00:52:28,920 --> 00:52:30,680
Speaker 2: really hard. I don't know if you've ever tried to

1018
00:52:30,680 --> 00:52:31,320
Speaker 2: hold those.

1019
00:52:31,160 --> 00:52:31,759
Speaker 3: Two fingers up.

1020
00:52:34,239 --> 00:52:36,319
Speaker 1: Is that in the body section? If you can't use

1021
00:52:36,320 --> 00:52:38,560
Speaker 1: your pinky to count, it doesn't make you less of a.

1022
00:52:38,560 --> 00:52:43,480
Speaker 3: Man, actually makes you more masculine.

1023
00:52:43,560 --> 00:52:43,799
Speaker 2: Wow.

1024
00:52:44,200 --> 00:52:49,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, Scotty, what about you? Is there sort of an

1025
00:52:49,719 --> 00:52:52,680
Speaker 1: overarching thing that you sort of you know when you

1026
00:52:52,719 --> 00:52:55,319
Speaker 1: have someone's ear, the elevator pitch of like ment. Healthy

1027
00:52:55,320 --> 00:52:57,520
Speaker 1: is so important, This book is so important. These are

1028
00:52:57,560 --> 00:52:59,440
Speaker 1: the things that are challenging us. What would it be?

1029
00:52:59,640 --> 00:53:01,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it would be to not be overwhelmed

1030
00:53:01,880 --> 00:53:06,000
Speaker 2: by all the massive information and options and opportunity out there,

1031
00:53:06,040 --> 00:53:08,400
Speaker 2: but rather to reframe that as a positive and that

1032
00:53:08,480 --> 00:53:11,480
Speaker 2: you can really take control of your own health and

1033
00:53:11,560 --> 00:53:17,760
Speaker 2: own masculinity and make it your own and own it. WHOA,

1034
00:53:17,920 --> 00:53:20,839
Speaker 2: Now I didn't want to count with my pinky again.

1035
00:53:23,800 --> 00:53:25,960
Speaker 3: In my remaining time, I'm going to sing the chorus

1036
00:53:26,040 --> 00:53:26,719
Speaker 3: to crul Summer.

1037
00:53:30,239 --> 00:53:32,560
Speaker 1: I think another thing as well, is you guys, having

1038
00:53:32,600 --> 00:53:34,879
Speaker 1: written this book, people will now approach you, and people

1039
00:53:34,880 --> 00:53:39,120
Speaker 1: probably already approached you both Kieran, especially being a qualified psychiatrist,

1040
00:53:39,520 --> 00:53:42,480
Speaker 1: and Scottie, having been at the Helm of Mental Health

1041
00:53:43,080 --> 00:53:51,560
Speaker 1: Community College graduate a finger counter Wow barely, but I

1042
00:53:51,600 --> 00:53:54,520
Speaker 1: feel like people would often come to you as the experts,

1043
00:53:54,560 --> 00:53:57,480
Speaker 1: like you no longer have issues in mental health. You

1044
00:53:57,520 --> 00:54:00,880
Speaker 1: guys are totally fine in every area. You don't have anxiety.

1045
00:54:00,920 --> 00:54:02,680
Speaker 1: You kind of all sort of you figured out who

1046
00:54:02,680 --> 00:54:05,480
Speaker 1: you are. Like, are there any areas where you guys

1047
00:54:05,520 --> 00:54:09,040
Speaker 1: still feel like it's your biggest challenge in mentalth Like

1048
00:54:09,080 --> 00:54:11,640
Speaker 1: you know, what's your biggest challenges that you still find

1049
00:54:12,040 --> 00:54:13,640
Speaker 1: difficult or that you still struggle with?

1050
00:54:13,680 --> 00:54:16,520
Speaker 2: Well, I think that's what's beautiful about health is it's

1051
00:54:16,560 --> 00:54:18,560
Speaker 2: kind of like a continuum. It's not something it's not

1052
00:54:18,719 --> 00:54:21,239
Speaker 2: kind of like a journey and you're like, cool, I

1053
00:54:21,280 --> 00:54:21,760
Speaker 2: am health.

1054
00:54:21,840 --> 00:54:23,560
Speaker 3: I made it.

1055
00:54:23,560 --> 00:54:26,200
Speaker 2: It's very much ongoing and it's maintenance, and you know,

1056
00:54:26,280 --> 00:54:28,000
Speaker 2: it's like things pop up, like I said, like with

1057
00:54:28,080 --> 00:54:31,239
Speaker 2: my lungs, Like I didn't expect that to be going

1058
00:54:31,280 --> 00:54:33,160
Speaker 2: on inside of me, but I was living in a

1059
00:54:33,200 --> 00:54:35,800
Speaker 2: way that I could like counteract that if it did happen.

1060
00:54:36,080 --> 00:54:38,200
Speaker 2: I think, especially in mental health, you know, things are

1061
00:54:38,200 --> 00:54:40,040
Speaker 2: going to happen in our lives that are unexpected. No

1062
00:54:40,080 --> 00:54:43,040
Speaker 2: one expected the pandemic, But just kind of having these

1063
00:54:43,120 --> 00:54:46,360
Speaker 2: tools from a manual of sorts, if you will, will

1064
00:54:46,400 --> 00:54:50,560
Speaker 2: really help you kind of be ready for those things

1065
00:54:50,560 --> 00:54:52,600
Speaker 2: to pop up. But for me, my weightness at the

1066
00:54:52,600 --> 00:54:55,719
Speaker 2: moment is nutrition, Like hands down. We probably even talked

1067
00:54:55,719 --> 00:54:57,000
Speaker 2: about that three years ago and I was like, I'm

1068
00:54:57,000 --> 00:54:59,440
Speaker 2: going to learn to cook this year. Nutrition for me,

1069
00:54:59,719 --> 00:55:02,400
Speaker 2: I'm I'm terrible with my nutrition and it's something that

1070
00:55:02,440 --> 00:55:03,880
Speaker 2: I really need to get on top of.

1071
00:55:04,280 --> 00:55:07,960
Speaker 3: Statute, I'll let you know next June. Next June when

1072
00:55:07,960 --> 00:55:09,120
Speaker 3: we arise again.

1073
00:55:10,960 --> 00:55:13,880
Speaker 1: I seriously I can't do any other episodes in June ever. Again.

1074
00:55:13,960 --> 00:55:15,799
Speaker 1: It has to be every year, so.

1075
00:55:16,040 --> 00:55:20,640
Speaker 2: Cut Sarah, No, And I think for me, I don't know,

1076
00:55:20,680 --> 00:55:23,840
Speaker 2: it's been it's been such a whirlwind of the last

1077
00:55:24,600 --> 00:55:29,000
Speaker 2: five to ten thirty five years of life, but like

1078
00:55:29,040 --> 00:55:31,440
Speaker 2: it's been so interesting. I think I've talked even on

1079
00:55:31,440 --> 00:55:35,479
Speaker 2: the podcast with you, Sarah about the younger Kieran being

1080
00:55:35,800 --> 00:55:41,319
Speaker 2: so perfectionistic, so polished, so driven on sort of achievement,

1081
00:55:41,640 --> 00:55:44,440
Speaker 2: And you know, I think medical school and being a

1082
00:55:44,480 --> 00:55:47,840
Speaker 2: doctor really kind of pushes.

1083
00:55:47,360 --> 00:55:49,560
Speaker 3: Is that in a lot of ways.

1084
00:55:49,800 --> 00:55:53,360
Speaker 2: So I think, you know, still leaning into the sense

1085
00:55:53,480 --> 00:55:58,640
Speaker 2: of vulnerability and even as a doctor, kind of stepping

1086
00:55:58,760 --> 00:56:02,360
Speaker 2: down off that this is the doctor, this is the patient,

1087
00:56:03,160 --> 00:56:03,680
Speaker 2: is a bit of.

1088
00:56:03,640 --> 00:56:07,680
Speaker 3: A bridge in between, you know, we you don't share

1089
00:56:07,719 --> 00:56:09,520
Speaker 3: your personal life, share your personal story.

1090
00:56:09,560 --> 00:56:12,160
Speaker 2: I think, you know, for me, that's been a beautiful

1091
00:56:12,200 --> 00:56:14,279
Speaker 2: part of the book as well as getting to do that,

1092
00:56:15,000 --> 00:56:16,000
Speaker 2: you know, And so I think.

1093
00:56:15,840 --> 00:56:20,360
Speaker 3: For me it's just still stepping into oka.

1094
00:56:20,160 --> 00:56:25,320
Speaker 2: Say, just life evolving and looking at different parts and

1095
00:56:25,600 --> 00:56:27,399
Speaker 2: you know, giving perfectionism the.

1096
00:56:27,360 --> 00:56:31,960
Speaker 1: Boot, which is I'm so hard. I mean, I'm perfect,

1097
00:56:32,040 --> 00:56:33,759
Speaker 1: and I don't I mean, I can't live off it,

1098
00:56:33,840 --> 00:56:38,680
Speaker 1: but some people need to. I mean God. Well, very

1099
00:56:38,760 --> 00:56:40,760
Speaker 1: last question for you, guys. I could talk to you forever,

1100
00:56:41,000 --> 00:56:44,120
Speaker 1: and I really like, I struggle when I love a

1101
00:56:44,120 --> 00:56:45,920
Speaker 1: book so much that really in the episode, I just

1102
00:56:45,960 --> 00:56:47,279
Speaker 1: want to read the whole book to people, like it's

1103
00:56:47,280 --> 00:56:52,200
Speaker 1: an audio book Welcome to the Manual anyway, But very

1104
00:56:52,239 --> 00:56:55,239
Speaker 1: last question for you guys, how would you at this

1105
00:56:55,280 --> 00:56:57,960
Speaker 1: point in your life versus maybe last time we chatted

1106
00:56:58,160 --> 00:57:03,640
Speaker 1: or you know, pre pandemic or whatever, what is happiness

1107
00:57:03,640 --> 00:57:07,480
Speaker 1: for you? Like, even something as simple as Netflix and

1108
00:57:07,600 --> 00:57:11,280
Speaker 1: pj's and whatever, or just a good chat with friends,

1109
00:57:11,360 --> 00:57:14,600
Speaker 1: like what is your happiness or what is your yay?

1110
00:57:14,760 --> 00:57:17,400
Speaker 2: Right now I can answer that because I'm going through

1111
00:57:17,400 --> 00:57:21,240
Speaker 2: this phase where I'm obsessed with Have you heard of

1112
00:57:21,320 --> 00:57:24,040
Speaker 2: I think it's called shinrien yoku in Japanese, but it's

1113
00:57:24,080 --> 00:57:30,280
Speaker 2: forest bathing, So it's obsessed. So I will like frequently,

1114
00:57:30,360 --> 00:57:33,400
Speaker 2: It'll be like Friday morning and I'll like jump on

1115
00:57:33,480 --> 00:57:35,800
Speaker 2: and get a cabin out in the woods and just

1116
00:57:35,840 --> 00:57:39,520
Speaker 2: spend the weekend if I have a free weekend. So basically,

1117
00:57:39,680 --> 00:57:42,960
Speaker 2: for I guess people listening forest bathing is spending time

1118
00:57:43,040 --> 00:57:46,640
Speaker 2: in nature for I guess mental health purposes, healing purposes.

1119
00:57:46,960 --> 00:57:50,280
Speaker 2: There's research that NASA has done to show that people

1120
00:57:50,320 --> 00:57:53,240
Speaker 2: recovering from surgery if they have plants in their hospital

1121
00:57:53,280 --> 00:57:57,160
Speaker 2: room recover faster than people without. I mean, governments have

1122
00:57:57,240 --> 00:58:00,480
Speaker 2: taken notice of this research. So in Canada, if you

1123
00:58:01,280 --> 00:58:05,200
Speaker 2: mental health, doctors, I think can prescribe National park passes

1124
00:58:05,880 --> 00:58:09,280
Speaker 2: as medicine, so you know, you can have a whole

1125
00:58:09,280 --> 00:58:13,520
Speaker 2: bunch of mental health ailments and your practitioner can prescribe

1126
00:58:13,560 --> 00:58:17,280
Speaker 2: you a National Parks part. In Japan, they have special

1127
00:58:17,400 --> 00:58:21,280
Speaker 2: walks and parks set up for forest bathing, and I

1128
00:58:21,400 --> 00:58:24,760
Speaker 2: just think it's brilliant, Like it's very recent in history,

1129
00:58:24,800 --> 00:58:27,000
Speaker 2: you know, like humans have been on this earth for

1130
00:58:27,080 --> 00:58:29,680
Speaker 2: millions and millions of years, and it's very recent that

1131
00:58:29,720 --> 00:58:32,600
Speaker 2: we've been sitting in offices, like the last fifty years

1132
00:58:33,360 --> 00:58:36,280
Speaker 2: that we've been sitting doing this, and so it's kind

1133
00:58:36,320 --> 00:58:39,400
Speaker 2: of not what we're used to anyway. I'm obsessed with that.

1134
00:58:39,400 --> 00:58:42,640
Speaker 2: That is how I get my a. I have one

1135
00:58:42,640 --> 00:58:44,800
Speaker 2: more as well, but I'll let you get first. I mean,

1136
00:58:45,040 --> 00:58:50,560
Speaker 2: I don't know how me saying eating is because that

1137
00:58:50,880 --> 00:58:53,680
Speaker 2: was incredible and I'm like, oh shit, how do I

1138
00:58:53,720 --> 00:58:56,400
Speaker 2: book a cabin now?

1139
00:58:56,880 --> 00:58:57,680
Speaker 3: But yeah, I don't know.

1140
00:58:57,720 --> 00:59:00,360
Speaker 2: I think, you know, happiness for me right now so

1141
00:59:00,560 --> 00:59:03,640
Speaker 2: many things. But I think something that I've been just

1142
00:59:03,800 --> 00:59:09,400
Speaker 2: loving lately is just slowing and stopping and just you know,

1143
00:59:09,560 --> 00:59:14,920
Speaker 2: recognizing happiness in just those little simple even when we

1144
00:59:15,000 --> 00:59:17,000
Speaker 2: think about them more, look at them kind of the

1145
00:59:17,160 --> 00:59:20,000
Speaker 2: nal basic moments, you know. And I think for me,

1146
00:59:20,080 --> 00:59:24,960
Speaker 2: it's often with people that you love, and whether that's

1147
00:59:24,960 --> 00:59:29,680
Speaker 2: a family member, a great mate, partner, no, it's little

1148
00:59:29,680 --> 00:59:34,240
Speaker 2: moments like coffee in the morning with partner or just reading,

1149
00:59:35,280 --> 00:59:36,720
Speaker 2: you know, having a good meal.

1150
00:59:37,400 --> 00:59:37,680
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1151
00:59:37,800 --> 00:59:40,880
Speaker 2: For me, I thinks at the moment is just those

1152
00:59:41,040 --> 00:59:44,320
Speaker 2: little little chances in the day to just stop and.

1153
00:59:44,400 --> 00:59:47,960
Speaker 1: Be grateful for I love how Japanese culture has a

1154
00:59:48,000 --> 00:59:51,040
Speaker 1: word for forest bathing and a word for flower gazing,

1155
00:59:51,560 --> 00:59:54,640
Speaker 1: Like there's an actual word for the activity of appreciating

1156
00:59:54,680 --> 00:59:57,480
Speaker 1: small things. And that book ikey guy about like the

1157
00:59:57,680 --> 00:59:59,680
Speaker 1: Joy of Living we gave each other.

1158
00:59:59,760 --> 01:00:05,400
Speaker 3: Yeah. Stop. It's another thing we do is we send

1159
01:00:05,480 --> 01:00:05,840
Speaker 3: each other.

1160
01:00:06,080 --> 01:00:09,720
Speaker 2: Yes, like if we're like I read this, Actually I

1161
01:00:09,760 --> 01:00:11,480
Speaker 2: won't see you because you won't be in the country

1162
01:00:11,480 --> 01:00:13,080
Speaker 2: for another six months, so I'm just going to send

1163
01:00:13,080 --> 01:00:13,440
Speaker 2: it to you.

1164
01:00:14,040 --> 01:00:15,840
Speaker 3: But read this and then we'll talk about it.

1165
01:00:16,480 --> 01:00:18,840
Speaker 1: Oh my god, you have like a two person book club.

1166
01:00:19,680 --> 01:00:20,400
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1167
01:00:20,440 --> 01:00:23,760
Speaker 2: So my other thing that gives me yay is doctor

1168
01:00:23,840 --> 01:00:26,560
Speaker 2: Kieren and his stethoscope. We were just talking about this

1169
01:00:26,680 --> 01:00:29,280
Speaker 2: before too, So this.

1170
01:00:29,360 --> 01:00:30,080
Speaker 3: Is like a joint.

1171
01:00:31,520 --> 01:00:33,720
Speaker 2: How many therapists have you been to that have used

1172
01:00:33,720 --> 01:00:37,440
Speaker 2: a stethoscope on you? But every social media post, oh

1173
01:00:37,480 --> 01:00:41,720
Speaker 2: may he is posing with his stethoscope. It's a prop guys,

1174
01:00:41,800 --> 01:00:45,440
Speaker 2: and it brings me ya. This is very offensive to

1175
01:00:45,640 --> 01:00:48,000
Speaker 2: the idea of mental health. Look it's mind and body,

1176
01:00:48,320 --> 01:00:50,640
Speaker 2: so like, I don't know how to use it, but

1177
01:00:50,920 --> 01:00:55,000
Speaker 2: liked it. You google doctor Kieren Kennedy. The first picture

1178
01:00:55,120 --> 01:00:57,040
Speaker 2: is like one with him holding ascope.

1179
01:00:58,200 --> 01:01:02,240
Speaker 1: It's like the stethoscope. It needs its own name.

1180
01:01:02,680 --> 01:01:10,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, stetho, Like oh, dusted them off to gl media.

1181
01:01:10,920 --> 01:01:13,880
Speaker 1: It's like, I am a doctor, a doctor. It's like

1182
01:01:13,920 --> 01:01:16,640
Speaker 1: you know Ross in Friends, how is appent? Was like, no,

1183
01:01:16,760 --> 01:01:20,360
Speaker 1: I'm a doctor, a doctor. It's like, that's what.

1184
01:01:20,840 --> 01:01:22,840
Speaker 2: Mean equivalent would be like if I put on like

1185
01:01:22,880 --> 01:01:26,920
Speaker 2: my reporter's hat and I was like, Scott Henderson, I'm

1186
01:01:26,920 --> 01:01:27,760
Speaker 2: gonna blow this wide.

1187
01:01:33,240 --> 01:01:37,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh my god. Oh you guys, this was such

1188
01:01:37,480 --> 01:01:41,520
Speaker 1: a delight. I'm so so excited for you both doing

1189
01:01:41,560 --> 01:01:47,600
Speaker 1: this together, bringing such an important and profound and just enjoyable.

1190
01:01:47,680 --> 01:01:50,320
Speaker 1: It was such a delightful read. So so excited for

1191
01:01:50,360 --> 01:01:52,440
Speaker 1: this to come out into the world. Where can we

1192
01:01:52,440 --> 01:01:52,840
Speaker 1: get it?

1193
01:01:53,640 --> 01:01:57,640
Speaker 3: We'reever all good book books asault everywhere and anywhere.

1194
01:01:57,680 --> 01:02:00,640
Speaker 2: I think it's Yeah, it's in like all major books stores,

1195
01:02:00,920 --> 01:02:05,720
Speaker 2: department stores, Big w Kmart, Target online.

1196
01:02:05,800 --> 01:02:10,120
Speaker 3: Ebook audiobook with our dulcet tones.

1197
01:02:10,680 --> 01:02:11,880
Speaker 1: You guys did the audiobook?

1198
01:02:12,000 --> 01:02:12,120
Speaker 2: Ye?

1199
01:02:12,760 --> 01:02:14,360
Speaker 3: The audio book? Yeah?

1200
01:02:14,640 --> 01:02:18,920
Speaker 1: Nice? I will make sure to put the links in

1201
01:02:18,960 --> 01:02:21,640
Speaker 1: the show notes so that everyone can grab their copy. Guys,

1202
01:02:21,720 --> 01:02:24,920
Speaker 1: The Manual by doctor Kieran Kennedy and Scott Henderson. It

1203
01:02:25,000 --> 01:02:29,280
Speaker 1: is literally a bible on modern masculinity and redefining our

1204
01:02:29,320 --> 01:02:33,000
Speaker 1: identity and approach to young men, old men, every man

1205
01:02:33,080 --> 01:02:35,720
Speaker 1: in society. And I'm so grateful for you guys for

1206
01:02:35,760 --> 01:02:36,200
Speaker 1: your time.

1207
01:02:36,480 --> 01:02:38,360
Speaker 3: Thanks Sarah, Thank you, Sarah, I appreciate it.

1208
01:02:38,640 --> 01:02:39,960
Speaker 1: I'll see you next June.

1209
01:02:41,200 --> 01:02:42,080
Speaker 3: Have a good sleep.

1210
01:02:43,960 --> 01:02:46,480
Speaker 1: I love these guys so much. I think you can

1211
01:02:46,520 --> 01:02:48,400
Speaker 1: probably hear how much fun we were all having in

1212
01:02:48,400 --> 01:02:51,000
Speaker 1: this one. I was meant to recording person in Sydney,

1213
01:02:51,040 --> 01:02:53,080
Speaker 1: but sadly we didn't end up being able to make

1214
01:02:53,120 --> 01:02:55,080
Speaker 1: it happen. But I just enjoyed it so much and

1215
01:02:55,160 --> 01:02:57,520
Speaker 1: always come away from chats with these two separately and

1216
01:02:57,560 --> 01:03:00,720
Speaker 1: together now it turns out, with so much to reflect on.

1217
01:03:01,160 --> 01:03:03,640
Speaker 1: Please do grab a copy of their amazing book. I

1218
01:03:03,640 --> 01:03:06,160
Speaker 1: don't think there's anyone out there who couldn't benefit in

1219
01:03:06,200 --> 01:03:08,800
Speaker 1: some way from its depth and honesty. I've popped the

1220
01:03:08,800 --> 01:03:11,440
Speaker 1: link to the Manual in the show notes, and of

1221
01:03:11,440 --> 01:03:13,920
Speaker 1: course please show them some yeghborhood love to thank them

1222
01:03:14,000 --> 01:03:17,160
Speaker 1: for so generously giving us their time tagging at Scotti

1223
01:03:17,200 --> 01:03:20,400
Speaker 1: Hindo and at Kieran Kennedy. Don't forget to send over

1224
01:03:20,440 --> 01:03:23,000
Speaker 1: your this ya or that ya questions for next week's

1225
01:03:23,080 --> 01:03:25,840
Speaker 1: yeas of our lives as well. And I was going

1226
01:03:25,880 --> 01:03:28,800
Speaker 1: to mention that we had lined up our next Melbourne

1227
01:03:28,880 --> 01:03:32,240
Speaker 1: Yeahborhood event, but it sold out on the first day,

1228
01:03:32,320 --> 01:03:35,320
Speaker 1: which I was not expecting. But because of that, we

1229
01:03:35,400 --> 01:03:37,360
Speaker 1: are already planning more and as you know, we had

1230
01:03:37,400 --> 01:03:40,400
Speaker 1: the next interstate events in the background planning as well.

1231
01:03:40,520 --> 01:03:44,040
Speaker 1: So I'm sorry that was Paul just sighing. I mean, honestly,

1232
01:03:44,200 --> 01:03:47,000
Speaker 1: that dog anyway. I love how excited you guys get

1233
01:03:47,000 --> 01:03:49,000
Speaker 1: about in real life catch ups and I can't wait

1234
01:03:49,040 --> 01:03:50,760
Speaker 1: for the next one. In the meantime, I hope you're

1235
01:03:50,760 --> 01:03:53,200
Speaker 1: all having an amazing week and are seizing your yea

1236
01:04:00,080 --> 01:04:00,439
Speaker 2: Not much