1
00:00:10,614 --> 00:00:15,254
Speaker 1: You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast. Mamma mea acknowledges

2
00:00:15,334 --> 00:00:18,134
Speaker 1: the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast

3
00:00:18,214 --> 00:00:18,934
Speaker 1: is recorded on.

4
00:00:21,974 --> 00:00:25,294
Speaker 2: Hey, I'm Taylor Straano. This is Mumma MIA's twice daily

5
00:00:25,334 --> 00:00:28,374
Speaker 2: news podcast, The Quickie. Today we're diving into one of

6
00:00:28,454 --> 00:00:32,814
Speaker 2: the biggest climate justice cases Australia has ever seen. But

7
00:00:33,094 --> 00:00:35,934
Speaker 2: before we get there, he's Clare Murphy with the latest

8
00:00:36,014 --> 00:00:38,774
Speaker 2: from the QUICKI News room for Friday July eighteen.

9
00:00:39,134 --> 00:00:42,414
Speaker 1: Thanks Taylor. Some parliamentary colleagues of former Labour leader and

10
00:00:42,614 --> 00:00:45,974
Speaker 1: X one Nation MP turned independent Mark Latham say he

11
00:00:45,974 --> 00:00:48,574
Speaker 1: would be sacked if he worked anywhere else, while others

12
00:00:48,574 --> 00:00:52,174
Speaker 1: are holding firm on collaborating with the controversial MP. The

13
00:00:52,174 --> 00:00:55,854
Speaker 1: one time Prime ministerial hopeful turned independent New South Wales

14
00:00:55,974 --> 00:00:58,774
Speaker 1: Upper House MP has been the subject of days of

15
00:00:58,854 --> 00:01:02,494
Speaker 1: reporting as his former partner, Natalie Matthews seeks an apprehended

16
00:01:02,534 --> 00:01:06,334
Speaker 1: domestic violence order against him. Mister Latham has rejected her

17
00:01:06,334 --> 00:01:10,134
Speaker 1: allegations of a sustained pattern of abuse and manipulation, which

18
00:01:10,174 --> 00:01:13,374
Speaker 1: includes allegations he drove a car at her and pressured

19
00:01:13,414 --> 00:01:17,134
Speaker 1: her into engaging in degrading sex acts posting online as

20
00:01:17,134 --> 00:01:19,734
Speaker 1: the old saying goes hell, hath no fury like a

21
00:01:19,774 --> 00:01:23,694
Speaker 1: woman scorned. Miss Matthew's private application, where she's seeking orders

22
00:01:23,694 --> 00:01:26,454
Speaker 1: preventing Latham from coming within one hundred meters of her,

23
00:01:26,854 --> 00:01:29,934
Speaker 1: is scheduled to be heard on July thirty. Mister Latham

24
00:01:30,014 --> 00:01:32,934
Speaker 1: posted on his social media a screenshot of a request

25
00:01:32,934 --> 00:01:35,774
Speaker 1: from The Sydney Morning Herald to comment over claims there's

26
00:01:35,814 --> 00:01:38,614
Speaker 1: a video of him and his partner involved in sexual

27
00:01:38,614 --> 00:01:42,654
Speaker 1: activity in his parliamentary office. Mister Latham posted his being

28
00:01:42,734 --> 00:01:46,054
Speaker 1: asked to dispute something they haven't seen but only told about.

29
00:01:46,334 --> 00:01:48,534
Speaker 1: He also wrote that there's no suggestion of any law

30
00:01:48,734 --> 00:01:52,294
Speaker 1: or all broken. Messages reportedly sent by mister Latham to

31
00:01:52,294 --> 00:01:55,414
Speaker 1: Miss Matthews from the floor of Parliament have also been published,

32
00:01:55,694 --> 00:02:00,174
Speaker 1: featuring photos and derogatory comments about female MPs. One shows

33
00:02:00,214 --> 00:02:03,094
Speaker 1: a picture of MP Lennie Patinos saying she looked pregnant

34
00:02:03,334 --> 00:02:06,854
Speaker 1: and bragging about pinching her backside. Another is of Liberal

35
00:02:06,974 --> 00:02:10,254
Speaker 1: MP Susan Carter saying she looked like a grim. Miss

36
00:02:10,334 --> 00:02:13,654
Speaker 1: Carter told reporters that mister Latham had called her to apologize,

37
00:02:13,814 --> 00:02:16,494
Speaker 1: saying she appreciated the apology but now it's time to

38
00:02:16,534 --> 00:02:18,414
Speaker 1: get on with the job people expect them to do.

39
00:02:18,934 --> 00:02:21,614
Speaker 1: Mister Latham posted on social media in response to the

40
00:02:21,654 --> 00:02:24,814
Speaker 1: messages being made public, not denying that he sent them,

41
00:02:25,054 --> 00:02:28,254
Speaker 1: but claiming the Daily Telegraph's campaign against him had come

42
00:02:28,294 --> 00:02:31,614
Speaker 1: down to the weird, woke and wowser, saying asking him

43
00:02:31,654 --> 00:02:33,814
Speaker 1: if it's sexual harassment to take a picture of a

44
00:02:33,854 --> 00:02:36,694
Speaker 1: woman in parliament, which the media, of course do all

45
00:02:36,734 --> 00:02:39,654
Speaker 1: the time. He accused the media of using his messages

46
00:02:39,694 --> 00:02:42,854
Speaker 1: out of context and cherry picking and missing in jokes.

47
00:02:43,214 --> 00:02:46,174
Speaker 1: Senior Government minister Rose Jackson said mister Latham should be

48
00:02:46,174 --> 00:02:49,774
Speaker 1: shunned by MPs across the political spectrum, saying she doesn't

49
00:02:49,854 --> 00:02:52,054
Speaker 1: like working in a workplace with someone who thinks that

50
00:02:52,174 --> 00:02:55,574
Speaker 1: kind of behavior is acceptable. New South Wales Premier Chris

51
00:02:55,574 --> 00:02:58,334
Speaker 1: Min's told reporters that mister Latham's alleged behavior in the

52
00:02:58,334 --> 00:03:02,454
Speaker 1: parliamentary chamber almost certainly broke standing orders if proven to

53
00:03:02,494 --> 00:03:05,574
Speaker 1: be true, and that the Privileges Committee should be investigating

54
00:03:05,614 --> 00:03:08,454
Speaker 1: these things. The government plans to call for an inquiry

55
00:03:08,494 --> 00:03:11,934
Speaker 1: into mister Latham oh so unrelated alleged abuses of parliamentary

56
00:03:11,974 --> 00:03:15,614
Speaker 1: privilege when Parliament resumes in August. One matter relates to

57
00:03:15,654 --> 00:03:19,214
Speaker 1: him revealing the medical information of another MP, Sydney Independent,

58
00:03:19,294 --> 00:03:22,454
Speaker 1: Alex Greenwich. It came after mister Latham was ordered to

59
00:03:22,454 --> 00:03:24,974
Speaker 1: pay one hundred and forty thousand to mister Greenwich in

60
00:03:24,974 --> 00:03:29,174
Speaker 1: September twenty twenty four over a sexually explicit and homophobic

61
00:03:29,254 --> 00:03:32,814
Speaker 1: social media post. The Federal Court found mister Latham's tweet

62
00:03:32,974 --> 00:03:36,894
Speaker 1: exposed mister Greenwich, who is gay and a prominent LGBTQI

63
00:03:36,934 --> 00:03:40,974
Speaker 1: community advocate, to a torrent of hateful abuse, including death threats.

64
00:03:41,414 --> 00:03:44,574
Speaker 1: Mister Latham resigned from Federal Parliament in two thousand five

65
00:03:44,734 --> 00:03:48,014
Speaker 1: after an unsuccessful campaign for Prime Minister as Labour leader.

66
00:03:48,294 --> 00:03:50,734
Speaker 1: He later left the party before being elected to the

67
00:03:50,774 --> 00:03:53,094
Speaker 1: New South Wales Upper House in twenty nineteen as a

68
00:03:53,094 --> 00:03:56,414
Speaker 1: one Nation member. He quit that party in twenty twenty three,

69
00:03:56,454 --> 00:04:00,774
Speaker 1: becoming an independent. His term expires in twenty thirty one.

70
00:04:00,814 --> 00:04:04,214
Speaker 1: Worried parents are looking for alternatives to childcare centers after

71
00:04:04,294 --> 00:04:08,374
Speaker 1: sexual abuse allegations were leveled against an educator. The quality

72
00:04:08,414 --> 00:04:11,214
Speaker 1: and safety of some large childcare services have been called

73
00:04:11,254 --> 00:04:15,294
Speaker 1: into question after Melbourne worker Joshua Dale Brown was charged

74
00:04:15,334 --> 00:04:19,934
Speaker 1: with dozens of sex offenses, including allegedly sexually abusing eight children.

75
00:04:20,294 --> 00:04:23,014
Speaker 1: Brown is known to have worked at twenty four facilities

76
00:04:23,014 --> 00:04:26,694
Speaker 1: between twenty seventeen and his arrest, with several centers added

77
00:04:26,694 --> 00:04:30,294
Speaker 1: to the list initially compiled by police. Another educator at

78
00:04:30,294 --> 00:04:33,734
Speaker 1: Milestone's Early Learning in tingalper and Brisbane has also been

79
00:04:33,814 --> 00:04:36,414
Speaker 1: since charged with indecent treatment of a four year old

80
00:04:36,414 --> 00:04:39,534
Speaker 1: in his care. The Four Parents collective, which formed in

81
00:04:39,574 --> 00:04:42,614
Speaker 1: the wake of the allegations, say that parents across Australia

82
00:04:42,654 --> 00:04:46,694
Speaker 1: are understandably shaken the news, sparking a coordinated push with

83
00:04:46,734 --> 00:04:50,054
Speaker 1: a petition of more than five thousand signatures, for childcare

84
00:04:50,094 --> 00:04:53,454
Speaker 1: subsidies to be paid directly to families who choose not

85
00:04:53,534 --> 00:04:57,134
Speaker 1: to send their children to traditional daycare centers. Four Parents

86
00:04:57,214 --> 00:05:00,214
Speaker 1: co founder Jen Fleming believes government grant should be widened

87
00:05:00,254 --> 00:05:04,494
Speaker 1: to include grandparents, nanny's oa pairs and co working spaces

88
00:05:04,534 --> 00:05:08,174
Speaker 1: that allow parents to keep children close. Federal Education Minister

89
00:05:08,254 --> 00:05:11,294
Speaker 1: Jason Clair says the government is not considering widening the

90
00:05:11,334 --> 00:05:15,814
Speaker 1: subsidy to include childcare provided by grandparents. A surprise jump

91
00:05:15,854 --> 00:05:17,934
Speaker 1: in the jobless rate could help cement the case for

92
00:05:17,974 --> 00:05:21,694
Speaker 1: an interest rate cut, delivering welcome relief for homeowners. According

93
00:05:21,694 --> 00:05:24,974
Speaker 1: to the Australian Bureau of Statistics, the unemployment rate bucked

94
00:05:25,014 --> 00:05:28,494
Speaker 1: market expectations, rising from four point one percent to four

95
00:05:28,494 --> 00:05:31,654
Speaker 1: point three percent in June. After its July meeting, the

96
00:05:31,694 --> 00:05:35,894
Speaker 1: Central Bank disappointed mortgage holders and shocked market economists by

97
00:05:35,974 --> 00:05:38,294
Speaker 1: opting to hold the cash rate at three point eight

98
00:05:38,374 --> 00:05:42,134
Speaker 1: five percent in a split decision. Creditor Watches chief economist

99
00:05:42,174 --> 00:05:46,734
Speaker 1: Ivan Colhoun says, combined with moderating inflation, the unemployment figure

100
00:05:46,854 --> 00:05:49,414
Speaker 1: means an interest rate cut was virtually locked in when

101
00:05:49,454 --> 00:05:52,774
Speaker 1: the Central Bank meets again in August. Ossie actor Margo

102
00:05:52,854 --> 00:05:55,934
Speaker 1: Robbie has shouted diners in a restaurant cocktails made from

103
00:05:55,974 --> 00:05:58,374
Speaker 1: her own brand of gin. The thirty five year old

104
00:05:58,494 --> 00:06:00,494
Speaker 1: was sharing a meal with the owners of the Australian

105
00:06:00,534 --> 00:06:04,614
Speaker 1: restaurant Bondi Green, ordering Palmes or Palmers, depending on where

106
00:06:04,654 --> 00:06:08,014
Speaker 1: you're from. Robbie, also joined by her husband Tom Ackerley.

107
00:06:08,254 --> 00:06:10,614
Speaker 1: As she left the restaurant the whole would start, insisted

108
00:06:10,694 --> 00:06:13,654
Speaker 1: on treating the room to a Papa Salt cocktail. One

109
00:06:13,694 --> 00:06:15,294
Speaker 1: of the people who was sitting at the restaurant at

110
00:06:15,334 --> 00:06:17,454
Speaker 1: the time said Robbie seemed to be having a great

111
00:06:17,494 --> 00:06:21,334
Speaker 1: time enjoying the classicalz cuisine. That's your latest news headlines

112
00:06:21,374 --> 00:06:23,614
Speaker 1: and if you're after more celebrity news, had to link

113
00:06:23,614 --> 00:06:26,454
Speaker 1: in our show notes for the spills daily entertainment headlines.

114
00:06:27,014 --> 00:06:31,334
Speaker 2: Thanks Claire. Next, the landmark climate case making waves beyond

115
00:06:31,374 --> 00:06:32,014
Speaker 2: our shores.

116
00:06:36,854 --> 00:06:39,734
Speaker 3: When I was growing up, it was beautiful oceans. You know,

117
00:06:40,174 --> 00:06:45,174
Speaker 3: we can swim when beautiful gardens, and it was a lie.

118
00:06:46,014 --> 00:06:49,454
Speaker 3: But Dan, we saw that it was changing. The beach

119
00:06:49,574 --> 00:06:52,374
Speaker 3: that we used to walk around. Retiller cousins of that

120
00:06:52,534 --> 00:06:55,294
Speaker 3: on Saibay was getting smaller. When you kind of think,

121
00:06:55,334 --> 00:06:56,894
Speaker 3: you know, we're all the shells.

122
00:06:56,534 --> 00:07:01,534
Speaker 2: Now, Imagine watching the place your family has called home

123
00:07:01,574 --> 00:07:06,414
Speaker 2: for thousands of years slowly disappear underwater. That's the reality

124
00:07:06,494 --> 00:07:10,534
Speaker 2: facing Torres Strait Islanders right now as rise seas fueled

125
00:07:10,534 --> 00:07:14,894
Speaker 2: by climate change eat away at their island homes. Enter

126
00:07:14,934 --> 00:07:18,254
Speaker 2: the landmark legal fight of Uncle Pabei and Uncle Paul

127
00:07:18,574 --> 00:07:21,974
Speaker 2: to elders representing their communities on the islands of Sibi

128
00:07:22,174 --> 00:07:23,854
Speaker 2: and Boygoo where we live.

129
00:07:23,934 --> 00:07:27,534
Speaker 1: No is You can learn ad like I've seen the

130
00:07:27,574 --> 00:07:33,534
Speaker 1: pictures of Lismo, same thing happening today by every monsutism.

131
00:07:32,014 --> 00:07:34,374
Speaker 2: In a case that's been watched by climate activists and

132
00:07:34,454 --> 00:07:38,334
Speaker 2: lawyers worldwide. They took the Australian government to court. Their

133
00:07:38,414 --> 00:07:42,814
Speaker 2: argument was simple that the Commonwealth has a legal duty

134
00:07:42,814 --> 00:07:46,054
Speaker 2: of care to protect Horror Strait Islanders from the effects

135
00:07:46,054 --> 00:07:50,654
Speaker 2: of climate change, especially when it sets national emissions targets.

136
00:07:51,294 --> 00:07:53,774
Speaker 2: On top of that, they wanted the court to formally

137
00:07:53,814 --> 00:07:57,934
Speaker 2: recognize the cultural trauma and loss already happening as sea

138
00:07:58,014 --> 00:08:03,414
Speaker 2: levels rise, threatening not just land, but identity and spiritual life.

139
00:08:03,534 --> 00:08:06,774
Speaker 2: The stakes felt huge. Some called it the climate equivalent

140
00:08:06,934 --> 00:08:10,174
Speaker 2: of the historic Marlbo case If You're I'm back In

141
00:08:10,294 --> 00:08:13,854
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety two. The Marbo decision changed legal history by

142
00:08:13,894 --> 00:08:18,014
Speaker 2: recognizing native title and overturning the myth of terranulius or

143
00:08:18,254 --> 00:08:19,094
Speaker 2: Nobody's land.

144
00:08:20,014 --> 00:08:25,494
Speaker 3: Best land came to me through my grandmother and her father.

145
00:08:26,814 --> 00:08:30,054
Speaker 2: Advocates hoped this case would do for climate justice what

146
00:08:30,174 --> 00:08:33,774
Speaker 2: Eddie Marbo did for Indigenous land rights. But on Tuesday,

147
00:08:33,854 --> 00:08:37,854
Speaker 2: the Federal Court handed down its long awaited judgment. Justice

148
00:08:37,854 --> 00:08:42,014
Speaker 2: Whigney acknowledged the existential threat of climate change and painted

149
00:08:42,014 --> 00:08:44,894
Speaker 2: oblique picture for the future of the Torres Strait if

150
00:08:44,934 --> 00:08:49,134
Speaker 2: emissions stay high. Scientists in the case testify that without

151
00:08:49,174 --> 00:08:54,574
Speaker 2: dramatic actions, some islands could be uninhabitable within twenty five years. Still,

152
00:08:54,734 --> 00:08:57,974
Speaker 2: the court said no. It found that setting emissions targets

153
00:08:57,974 --> 00:09:02,294
Speaker 2: and funding protective infrastructure are political decisions, not legal ones

154
00:09:02,454 --> 00:09:05,334
Speaker 2: that the court could order, and while the cultural loss

155
00:09:05,414 --> 00:09:08,374
Speaker 2: is real, Australian law at this stage won't recognize a

156
00:09:08,494 --> 00:09:12,174
Speaker 2: special legal duty to prevent it. It's safe to say

157
00:09:12,214 --> 00:09:15,894
Speaker 2: it was a profound disappointment for climate and indigenous justice movements,

158
00:09:16,294 --> 00:09:18,814
Speaker 2: but it's also part of a global legal trend that's

159
00:09:18,854 --> 00:09:22,734
Speaker 2: gaining momentum around the world. Groups are taking their governments

160
00:09:22,774 --> 00:09:26,254
Speaker 2: to court for failing on climate action. In the Netherlands,

161
00:09:26,254 --> 00:09:29,334
Speaker 2: back in twenty fifteen, the Dutch Supreme Court ruled that

162
00:09:29,374 --> 00:09:32,334
Speaker 2: the state had a legal duty to reduce greenhouse gas

163
00:09:32,334 --> 00:09:36,294
Speaker 2: emissions and ordered stronger action to protect its people. That

164
00:09:36,454 --> 00:09:41,014
Speaker 2: verdict inspired dozens more lawsuits, some successful, some not, from

165
00:09:41,054 --> 00:09:44,654
Speaker 2: young people to farmers to the Torres Strait islanders themselves,

166
00:09:46,574 --> 00:09:49,454
Speaker 2: and this brings up a vital point. Climate change isn't

167
00:09:49,494 --> 00:09:53,494
Speaker 2: just an abstract problem. Across the Pacific Island nations like

168
00:09:53,534 --> 00:09:58,014
Speaker 2: Tuvlu face a truly existential threat. Australia recently signed the

169
00:09:58,054 --> 00:10:01,894
Speaker 2: Australias tu Vulu Phllipili Union Treaty, a world first agreement

170
00:10:01,934 --> 00:10:05,854
Speaker 2: that recognized Twuo Vlu's ongoing statehood and sovereignty even as

171
00:10:05,974 --> 00:10:09,454
Speaker 2: rising seas threatened to swallow its land. As part of

172
00:10:09,654 --> 00:10:12,334
Speaker 2: of the deal, Australia has committed to assist Tuvalu in

173
00:10:12,454 --> 00:10:17,134
Speaker 2: major disasters, and most importantly, to provide a special visa

174
00:10:17,174 --> 00:10:20,014
Speaker 2: pathway for two Va Luin citizens who are forced to

175
00:10:20,094 --> 00:10:24,054
Speaker 2: leave the island due to climate impacts. This Mobility with

176
00:10:24,134 --> 00:10:27,454
Speaker 2: Dignity pathway means two Va Luins can live, work and

177
00:10:27,574 --> 00:10:31,294
Speaker 2: study in Australia as climate migrants, ensuring their culture and

178
00:10:31,374 --> 00:10:36,414
Speaker 2: community carry on even if their homeland becomes unlivable. It's

179
00:10:36,494 --> 00:10:40,054
Speaker 2: a historic step towards recognizing and supporting climate migrants, and

180
00:10:40,134 --> 00:10:42,694
Speaker 2: a sign that the world is slowly adapting, both in

181
00:10:42,814 --> 00:10:46,534
Speaker 2: law and in spirit as climate impact grows. While the

182
00:10:46,534 --> 00:10:49,134
Speaker 2: Federal Court's decision is a setback for Uncle Pabe and

183
00:10:49,214 --> 00:10:52,614
Speaker 2: Uncle Paul and their communities, the campaign for climate justice

184
00:10:52,654 --> 00:10:56,934
Speaker 2: doesn't slow down. The global spotlight is firmly on Australia.

185
00:10:57,054 --> 00:11:00,054
Speaker 2: Legal activists like our guest today founder of the Grata Fund,

186
00:11:00,094 --> 00:11:05,214
Speaker 2: Isabella Rhinikey are already strategizing about next steps, including appealing

187
00:11:05,254 --> 00:11:09,334
Speaker 2: the decision and pushing four reforms. Isabel, you've been there

188
00:11:09,734 --> 00:11:12,654
Speaker 2: the beginning. Can you explain this case to us? What

189
00:11:12,694 --> 00:11:14,214
Speaker 2: were you actually trying to prove?

190
00:11:15,134 --> 00:11:18,054
Speaker 4: The uncles and their legal team were trying to demonstrate

191
00:11:18,094 --> 00:11:22,254
Speaker 4: that the Australian government has been negligent in its approach

192
00:11:22,374 --> 00:11:25,174
Speaker 4: on climate change, and the way that they were going

193
00:11:25,214 --> 00:11:27,574
Speaker 4: about that was arguing that the government had a duty

194
00:11:27,574 --> 00:11:30,774
Speaker 4: of care to people in the Torrest rate on climate change,

195
00:11:31,054 --> 00:11:34,894
Speaker 4: that they'd failed that duty through their actions or really

196
00:11:34,934 --> 00:11:37,974
Speaker 4: in actions on climate change, and that they were ultimately

197
00:11:38,014 --> 00:11:42,014
Speaker 4: asking the court to order the government to reduce climate

198
00:11:42,014 --> 00:11:45,414
Speaker 4: pollution in line with what is necessary to protect the

199
00:11:45,454 --> 00:11:51,134
Speaker 4: Torost Strait from total destruction and or to properly resource

200
00:11:51,294 --> 00:11:53,214
Speaker 4: adaptation measures in the tourist rate.

201
00:11:53,774 --> 00:11:55,694
Speaker 2: Can you tell me a bit about where you and

202
00:11:55,854 --> 00:11:57,934
Speaker 2: the Grata Fund come into this story.

203
00:11:58,494 --> 00:12:03,134
Speaker 4: Grato was set up to support communities that are marginalized

204
00:12:03,334 --> 00:12:06,494
Speaker 4: to access the power of law and courts and the

205
00:12:06,534 --> 00:12:11,214
Speaker 4: public domain, and what we do is vie case funding

206
00:12:11,494 --> 00:12:16,494
Speaker 4: and impact strategy support to those communities bringing litigation. So

207
00:12:16,614 --> 00:12:19,374
Speaker 4: we started working with the uncles over five years ago,

208
00:12:19,934 --> 00:12:22,894
Speaker 4: after they had indicated that they were interested in bringing

209
00:12:22,894 --> 00:12:26,454
Speaker 4: a case like this to protect their communities and all Australians.

210
00:12:26,494 --> 00:12:30,454
Speaker 2: Actually, so this has been before the court for four years.

211
00:12:30,494 --> 00:12:32,854
Speaker 2: Why did it take that long to reach a decision?

212
00:12:33,454 --> 00:12:38,374
Speaker 4: Yeah, courts can be frustratingly slow. This case we started

213
00:12:38,374 --> 00:12:40,814
Speaker 4: it filed in October twenty twenty one, I was pregnant.

214
00:12:40,974 --> 00:12:43,934
Speaker 4: I now have an almost four year old, so she's

215
00:12:43,974 --> 00:12:46,814
Speaker 4: been a good timeline for the actual case and how

216
00:12:46,854 --> 00:12:49,854
Speaker 4: slow it has been. Partly why it's been slow is

217
00:12:49,854 --> 00:12:53,414
Speaker 4: because it's just so complicated the facts that the judge

218
00:12:53,414 --> 00:12:56,374
Speaker 4: had to get across, and so that meant the judge

219
00:12:56,454 --> 00:13:00,734
Speaker 4: traveled to the Islands, to Boygoo, to Siby, to Baju

220
00:13:01,094 --> 00:13:05,614
Speaker 4: and took evidence and heard directly from elders, and then

221
00:13:05,694 --> 00:13:09,134
Speaker 4: he went to Melbourne and heard from expert scientists. He

222
00:13:09,214 --> 00:13:13,014
Speaker 4: then had closing arguments up in Cairns. Then he did

223
00:13:13,014 --> 00:13:15,494
Speaker 4: take a fairly long time to make a decision, and

224
00:13:15,614 --> 00:13:17,734
Speaker 4: he did say I'll never forget in the last day

225
00:13:17,774 --> 00:13:21,134
Speaker 4: of the arguments that this was a case, the most

226
00:13:21,214 --> 00:13:25,294
Speaker 4: complex case with contested arguments he'd ever had. So we

227
00:13:25,374 --> 00:13:27,494
Speaker 4: knew it was going to take a while, but it's slow.

228
00:13:27,974 --> 00:13:31,774
Speaker 2: It's not just loss of physical land that was argued about.

229
00:13:31,814 --> 00:13:34,934
Speaker 2: It was also this idea of cultural loss too. Can

230
00:13:34,974 --> 00:13:37,054
Speaker 2: you explain a bit about what that actually means.

231
00:13:37,894 --> 00:13:41,854
Speaker 4: Yeah, of course, So for the uncles and the communities

232
00:13:41,894 --> 00:13:45,334
Speaker 4: and for all First Nations communities across the country, there's

233
00:13:45,374 --> 00:13:48,854
Speaker 4: a really special cultural connection with land which the courts

234
00:13:48,894 --> 00:13:53,534
Speaker 4: have recognized exists. That's recognized in multiple high court decisions,

235
00:13:53,854 --> 00:13:57,454
Speaker 4: and that's a recognition of those cultures that have this

236
00:13:57,614 --> 00:14:01,094
Speaker 4: very intimate spiritual relationship with land. And because of the

237
00:14:01,094 --> 00:14:04,334
Speaker 4: impacts of climate change, because it's going to be increasingly

238
00:14:04,374 --> 00:14:07,214
Speaker 4: difficult for people to live there, but it's already impacted.

239
00:14:07,494 --> 00:14:10,694
Speaker 4: Sacred sites are disappearing under the sea, for example, Sacred

240
00:14:10,774 --> 00:14:13,534
Speaker 4: traditional practices can no longer take place because of the

241
00:14:13,614 --> 00:14:16,414
Speaker 4: changes to the landscape. So the uncles were arguing that

242
00:14:16,414 --> 00:14:20,294
Speaker 4: the government has a responsibility to do something not only

243
00:14:20,374 --> 00:14:22,694
Speaker 4: because of the physical loss, but because of that spiritual

244
00:14:22,734 --> 00:14:25,054
Speaker 4: and cultural loss that's already happening as well.

245
00:14:25,574 --> 00:14:29,094
Speaker 2: So this case has been likened to the Marlbo decision.

246
00:14:29,174 --> 00:14:31,974
Speaker 2: People have dubbed it the Climate Marbo. Can you walk

247
00:14:32,054 --> 00:14:34,534
Speaker 2: us through how these two cases actually are similar.

248
00:14:35,654 --> 00:14:38,574
Speaker 4: So they're similar in a couple of ways. One is

249
00:14:39,054 --> 00:14:42,014
Speaker 4: that they both come from the Torres Strait. So Eddie

250
00:14:42,054 --> 00:14:45,014
Speaker 4: Marbo was a Chilishdaree islander man from an island not

251
00:14:45,054 --> 00:14:47,774
Speaker 4: far from Uncle Pabay and Uncle Paul, and his case

252
00:14:48,134 --> 00:14:50,854
Speaker 4: also had the court come out to the islands and

253
00:14:50,894 --> 00:14:56,374
Speaker 4: actually hear evidence from traditional owners firsthand. The other reason though,

254
00:14:56,454 --> 00:14:59,854
Speaker 4: that is parallel is because of the significance of what's

255
00:14:59,894 --> 00:15:03,214
Speaker 4: being argued and its attempt to push the common law

256
00:15:03,694 --> 00:15:05,894
Speaker 4: along and to really get the common law to catch

257
00:15:05,974 --> 00:15:07,934
Speaker 4: up with the reality of the facts, which is what

258
00:15:08,054 --> 00:15:11,854
Speaker 4: Eddie Marbo successfully did. But also before Eddie Marlbo's case

259
00:15:11,934 --> 00:15:15,534
Speaker 4: came the gove Land Rights case and that case failed actually,

260
00:15:15,734 --> 00:15:19,774
Speaker 4: but that case really paved a pathway for Eddie Marbo's

261
00:15:19,774 --> 00:15:20,734
Speaker 4: case to then win.

262
00:15:21,174 --> 00:15:24,174
Speaker 2: There's this precedent for these types of cases being brought

263
00:15:24,214 --> 00:15:26,494
Speaker 2: before courts, right, I mean, we think about what happened

264
00:15:26,494 --> 00:15:29,134
Speaker 2: in the Netherlands and twenty fifteen that felt kind of

265
00:15:29,174 --> 00:15:32,454
Speaker 2: like a catalyst for more people taking formal action against

266
00:15:32,494 --> 00:15:36,814
Speaker 2: climate change. It's worked in varying success around the world.

267
00:15:37,294 --> 00:15:39,054
Speaker 2: There was a lot of eyes on this case here

268
00:15:39,054 --> 00:15:42,534
Speaker 2: in Australia though, So where does that leave us now?

269
00:15:42,574 --> 00:15:46,414
Speaker 2: I mean, the decision was not ruled favorably for Uncle

270
00:15:46,454 --> 00:15:49,014
Speaker 2: Paul and Uncle Pubey, So what happens next?

271
00:15:49,934 --> 00:15:53,014
Speaker 4: So there are some really big elements of that case

272
00:15:53,054 --> 00:15:55,854
Speaker 4: that are wins in my eyes and are going to

273
00:15:55,934 --> 00:16:00,014
Speaker 4: go down as a landmark judgment around the world, notwithstanding

274
00:16:00,054 --> 00:16:03,214
Speaker 4: the ultimate loss on the legal points. And that's because

275
00:16:03,254 --> 00:16:06,734
Speaker 4: the government had some really strong rebukes from the court

276
00:16:07,054 --> 00:16:09,694
Speaker 4: on the facts of climate science and its impacts. So

277
00:16:09,854 --> 00:16:12,494
Speaker 4: the court said Tyres Strait Islanders are facing oblique future

278
00:16:12,494 --> 00:16:15,014
Speaker 4: if the government doesn't do more. The judge said that

279
00:16:15,294 --> 00:16:19,814
Speaker 4: the world faces an existential threat to global humanity if

280
00:16:19,854 --> 00:16:23,774
Speaker 4: governments don't do more, and also accepted basically every factual

281
00:16:23,854 --> 00:16:28,094
Speaker 4: argument presented by the uncles, including that the government fundamentally

282
00:16:28,134 --> 00:16:32,414
Speaker 4: failed to even consider climate science when setting climate pollution targets,

283
00:16:32,774 --> 00:16:35,894
Speaker 4: which is a pretty strong sort of language. So that's

284
00:16:36,054 --> 00:16:39,294
Speaker 4: really significant in itself. And also what significant is that

285
00:16:39,294 --> 00:16:42,734
Speaker 4: the court didn't say that this is impossible. It just

286
00:16:42,814 --> 00:16:45,734
Speaker 4: said not yet, that the law hasn't developed yet. And

287
00:16:46,014 --> 00:16:48,014
Speaker 4: the judge said a couple of things. He said, people

288
00:16:48,054 --> 00:16:52,534
Speaker 4: have pathways through protest and the ballot box and the

289
00:16:52,614 --> 00:16:56,334
Speaker 4: slow incremental change of the legal system and the law,

290
00:16:56,494 --> 00:16:59,574
Speaker 4: and so what comes next is all of the above.

291
00:16:59,854 --> 00:17:02,774
Speaker 4: We have been as communities across the country, as I'm

292
00:17:02,814 --> 00:17:07,294
Speaker 4: sure much of your audience has participated in protests using

293
00:17:07,334 --> 00:17:11,094
Speaker 4: their vote wisely and litigating. And for the uncles, I

294
00:17:11,174 --> 00:17:14,294
Speaker 4: know that appeal is definitely on the table. It's something

295
00:17:14,334 --> 00:17:16,374
Speaker 4: that they're looking at really closely with their lawyers now.

296
00:17:16,414 --> 00:17:18,534
Speaker 4: But there are also going to be other cases and

297
00:17:18,694 --> 00:17:21,174
Speaker 4: without a doubt, this case, whether it appeals or not,

298
00:17:21,214 --> 00:17:24,374
Speaker 4: will be a stepping stone, I believe to ultimate accountability

299
00:17:24,414 --> 00:17:26,694
Speaker 4: for the Australian government and for fossil fuel companies in

300
00:17:26,734 --> 00:17:27,294
Speaker 4: this country.

301
00:17:27,854 --> 00:17:30,294
Speaker 2: So we're waiting for the law to catch up with

302
00:17:30,654 --> 00:17:33,654
Speaker 2: the current plight of people like the Torres Strait Islanders.

303
00:17:33,934 --> 00:17:36,894
Speaker 2: But at the same time, Australia has welcomed and continues

304
00:17:36,934 --> 00:17:40,814
Speaker 2: to welcome climate migrants from Tuvalu, so in a way,

305
00:17:40,854 --> 00:17:43,894
Speaker 2: the government is acknowledging those impacts of climate change on

306
00:17:43,974 --> 00:17:46,214
Speaker 2: other parts of the world and the reality of it

307
00:17:46,294 --> 00:17:50,094
Speaker 2: displacing people, but not quite yet in our own backyard.

308
00:17:50,454 --> 00:17:53,174
Speaker 4: Well, the funny thing is the Australian government does acknowledge

309
00:17:53,214 --> 00:17:56,934
Speaker 4: the impacts on Torshaw Islanders. So mister Chris Bowen, the

310
00:17:57,014 --> 00:18:00,014
Speaker 4: moment that the decision came out, released a press statement

311
00:18:00,094 --> 00:18:03,094
Speaker 4: saying that they're different to the former government. They get

312
00:18:03,214 --> 00:18:07,214
Speaker 4: climate change, they understand how it's impacting people. Unfortunately, what

313
00:18:07,254 --> 00:18:10,414
Speaker 4: they haven't done is actually put out a response that

314
00:18:10,494 --> 00:18:13,974
Speaker 4: matches the need for the community. And so there's this

315
00:18:14,214 --> 00:18:16,254
Speaker 4: talking out of two sides of their mouth, because on

316
00:18:16,294 --> 00:18:18,134
Speaker 4: the one hand they're saying to the Pacific, hey, we

317
00:18:18,294 --> 00:18:19,934
Speaker 4: get it, We're going to do more. We'll give you

318
00:18:20,014 --> 00:18:22,814
Speaker 4: refugee visas for a handful of people out of Tuvalu.

319
00:18:23,174 --> 00:18:25,534
Speaker 4: We want to co host a big climate conference with

320
00:18:25,574 --> 00:18:27,974
Speaker 4: you in Australia for the world next year. But on

321
00:18:28,014 --> 00:18:30,054
Speaker 4: the other hand, they're fighting their own people who are

322
00:18:30,054 --> 00:18:32,894
Speaker 4: experiencing the exact same situation in court to try and

323
00:18:32,894 --> 00:18:34,014
Speaker 4: get out of accountability.

324
00:18:34,694 --> 00:18:36,854
Speaker 2: So when does the government owe a duty of care

325
00:18:37,054 --> 00:18:38,774
Speaker 2: to climate vulnerable people?

326
00:18:39,294 --> 00:18:41,814
Speaker 4: I would say it already does, and that this is

327
00:18:41,854 --> 00:18:46,134
Speaker 4: a moral position that exists that is really irrefutable, and

328
00:18:46,174 --> 00:18:48,734
Speaker 4: I don't believe the government would deny that either. The

329
00:18:48,814 --> 00:18:50,774
Speaker 4: question is just what is it going to take for

330
00:18:50,814 --> 00:18:53,414
Speaker 4: them to follow through on that moral obligation. Is it

331
00:18:53,454 --> 00:18:55,614
Speaker 4: going to be the finding of a legal obligation or

332
00:18:55,694 --> 00:18:58,974
Speaker 4: can they actually do it before really using the emotional

333
00:18:59,134 --> 00:19:02,174
Speaker 4: resources of so many people in communities to fight them

334
00:19:02,174 --> 00:19:05,214
Speaker 4: through court. Governments shouldn't have to be litigated to do

335
00:19:05,334 --> 00:19:06,974
Speaker 4: the right thing on climate change.

336
00:19:08,134 --> 00:19:10,294
Speaker 2: Thanks for taking some time to feed your mind with

337
00:19:10,374 --> 00:19:13,014
Speaker 2: us today. The Quikie is produced by me Taylor Strano

338
00:19:13,134 --> 00:19:16,094
Speaker 2: and Cleare Murphy, with audio production by Lou Hill.