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Speaker 1: So you're listening to a Muma Mia podcast. Mamma Mia

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Speaker 1: acknowledges the traditional owners of land and borders that this

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Speaker 1: podcast is recorded on. From Mamma Mia.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to the Spill, your daily pop culture fix. I'm

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Speaker 2: m Burnham and I'm Laura Brednick and on the show today,

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Speaker 2: LB and I went to a very big premiere for

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Speaker 2: a new movie, and look, we nearly got into a

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Speaker 2: bit of a physical.

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Speaker 1: Fight, a physical public fight, A physical.

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Speaker 2: Public fight after the movie was over, when we was

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Speaker 2: standing outside in the rain waiting for our ubers.

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Speaker 3: So we've saved it for today. Do not worry. No

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Speaker 3: punches were made.

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Speaker 1: But they might happen in this episode.

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Speaker 2: It may happen. We are very close to each other.

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Speaker 2: We're also going to be talking about the big expos

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Speaker 2: that Vanity Fair posted about Meghan and Harry. Megan and

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Speaker 2: Harry refuse to take part in it, and we know

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Speaker 2: exactly why.

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Speaker 1: But first, but first, I need to ask you if

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Speaker 1: you know about a little show that's just opened to

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Speaker 1: New York called Gwyneth Goes Skiing. Didn't just say anything else.

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Speaker 3: Tell me this is not a show.

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Speaker 1: It's a show. It's off Broadway, but still far off.

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Speaker 1: Just so you know, it's already played in a lot

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Speaker 1: of esteemed places including London and Park City, Utah. Oh

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Speaker 1: and the Utah connection is important, so as you know, wait, how.

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Speaker 3: Do we get to watch this?

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Speaker 2: Okay, firstly, this I'm assuming this is about the massive

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Speaker 2: trial that she went to where she what injured a skier?

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Speaker 1: Yes, yes, that very infamous hidden situation. No, he was

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Speaker 1: in the court y he wrote, Oh no, well I remember.

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Speaker 3: Is her Jeffrey darmaglasses and her chic little Oh okay.

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Speaker 1: Let me take you back to the scene of the crime,

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Speaker 1: the literal scene of the crime, before I get into

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Speaker 1: this musical. So in twenty twenty three, we were gifted

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Speaker 1: a cultural moment in time that kept us all glued

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Speaker 1: to a live stream, and that was the trial between

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Speaker 1: actress and Goot founder gwynethtro and optometrist Terry Sanderson. Now

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Speaker 1: Terry Sanderson was suing Gwyneth Paltrow for he alleged that

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Speaker 1: she crashed into him while they were skiing. He was

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Speaker 1: very hurt, He had all these medical issues and lost

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Speaker 1: all this money, so he was suing her for damages

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Speaker 1: and what ensued was a very long, very public trial

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Speaker 1: where Gwyneth Paltrow was on the stand, Terry Sanderson was

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Speaker 1: on the stand. At one point, Terry Sanderson's lawyer changed

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Speaker 1: loyalties to Gwyneth Paltrow.

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Speaker 2: At a mid trial and every day, well you know

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Speaker 2: what goop is expensive, Yeah, if she wanted some free beats,

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Speaker 2: I would have done the same.

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Speaker 1: She was just like, oh, Gwyneth like chatting to her,

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Speaker 1: and they were talking about like each other's shoes is

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Speaker 1: what got us on the stand, And Sanderson is on

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Speaker 1: the floor just like in a puddle because he's like,

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Speaker 1: they did find in favor of Gwyneth Paltrow. So for

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Speaker 1: days we watched her coming in her beautiful beige Goop outfits,

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Speaker 1: and a lot of people Gwennys caught room styles spawned

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Speaker 1: like a whole fashion movement. People started dressing like her.

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Speaker 1: And then it ended and Gwyneth won and was found

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Speaker 1: not to be at fault, and then as she left

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Speaker 1: the courtroom, she uttered the most chilling line I've ever

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Speaker 1: heard from anyone. It was ruled in her favor. She

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Speaker 1: kind of floated up, picked up a handbag, put it

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Speaker 1: over her shoulder, walked up to Terry Sampson and whispered

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Speaker 1: in his ear, I wish you well, and then just

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Speaker 1: sauntered out of the courtroom and I'm sorry. Has anyone

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Speaker 1: ever heard from Terry Sanderson again? Or was he cursed

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Speaker 1: into oblivion? Oh? No, I hope he's fine anyway, Which

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Speaker 1: brings us to today.

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Speaker 2: Can I just say that was like my favorite like

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Speaker 2: courtroom trial ever because it was so low stakes.

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Speaker 1: It was so low stakes and I'm so glad to

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Speaker 1: use that term because the fact that it was so

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Speaker 1: low steakes is why it has been turned into a musical.

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Speaker 1: So this musical, as I said, has already played in Utah,

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Speaker 1: in London, has just opened in New York and I'm

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Speaker 1: devastated I won't get to see it. I hope they

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Speaker 1: bring it to Australia. So it was written and created

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Speaker 1: by Linus Carp and Joseph Martin, who who are a

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Speaker 1: real life couple, and they play Gwyneth and Terry respectively.

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Speaker 1: But then they get Glee star Darren Cris who's also

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Speaker 1: a big musical view why tarn Cris, you know, he

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Speaker 1: gives the voice, and then a very famous drag queen,

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Speaker 1: Trixie Martel, who everyone would know. They provide the voices

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Speaker 1: for the songs okay, and then the show's creators Linus

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Speaker 1: and Joseph star as Terry and Gwyneth, and it takes

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Speaker 1: the audience through the ski incident and then into the trial.

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Speaker 1: And when asked why they created it, they said the

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Speaker 1: trial brought such hilarity and joy to people, and I

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Speaker 1: was like, that is so true.

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Speaker 2: Oh.

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Speaker 1: Then they went on to say it's rare to see

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Speaker 1: a high profile court case where the stakes are as

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Speaker 1: low as they are here. And then they went on

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Speaker 1: to quote a very infamous line from Worneth Paltrow when

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Speaker 1: she was on the stand and they asked her what

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Speaker 1: the impact of this huge collision have been on her.

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Speaker 1: She just said, well, I lost half a day of skiing.

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Speaker 3: Oh my god, I forgot about that. That was the

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Speaker 3: best thing ever.

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Speaker 1: It's a big moment in musical.

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Speaker 3: She's like, I don't know how you got so engined. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: you just ruined my day.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, She's like, I missed some skiing. And then they

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Speaker 1: went on to say when a blonde Hollywood start enters

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Speaker 1: a small town district court in the Utah Mountains with

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Speaker 1: the glamour, grace and goopiness that she did, the queers

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Speaker 1: have no choice but to stand, and we rightfully appreciate

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Speaker 1: this moment better than any straight person ever could. No offense,

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Speaker 1: Oh my, I mean fair. Oh we have to watch

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Speaker 1: the I want to watch it so bad. Maybe the

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Speaker 1: live stream, but I feel bad because I want to

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Speaker 1: give them my money for watching.

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Speaker 3: Surely we can take us to New York to see it.

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Speaker 1: So Gwyneth hasn't commented on this surprise, but you know what,

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Speaker 1: she's such a wild card. I wouldn't put it past

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Speaker 1: her one day to be photographed, just like sitting wearing the.

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Speaker 2: Sweater and theweater in the glasses. That would be iconic.

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Speaker 2: I just know there's one whole number just dedicated to that.

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Speaker 1: Look exactly to her outfits and everything. So I mean,

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Speaker 1: this is theater, this is culture, is the best, this

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Speaker 1: is bring it to Australia as long as to say,

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Speaker 1: I agree, I see no one wants to hear when

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Speaker 1: he can't wrote last month, Well, I like your songs

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Speaker 1: with the winds hit heavy on the boardline?

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Speaker 3: Who wrote this? He did? I hear Bob is playing electric.

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Speaker 3: It's a lot of last stage us.

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Speaker 2: So fine.

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Speaker 1: They just wanted to be singing, blowing in the land

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Speaker 1: for the restaurant. Got a damn light people, cause you

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Speaker 1: came here with nothing but a guitar. You never talked

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Speaker 1: about your family, your past.

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Speaker 2: People make up their past rely.

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Speaker 1: They remember what they want, They forget the rest. I'm

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Speaker 1: not sure they want to hear it. I want to play, Johnny,

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Speaker 1: I want to hear it. What is it?

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Speaker 2: So earlier this week you and I had a date.

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Speaker 2: We went to watch the new biopic, the new Bob

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Speaker 2: Dylan biopic, A Complete Unknown Bob Dylan, played by Timote

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Speaker 2: shallow May.

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Speaker 1: And of course there's been such a lead up to this.

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Speaker 1: Not really is it.

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Speaker 3: We talked about like the press tour for this, like

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Speaker 3: so many times.

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Speaker 1: Well, he forced us to talk about it because he

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Speaker 1: was cosplaying as Bob Dylan, and we had some notes

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Speaker 1: on that. And then he rocked up to one of

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Speaker 1: the premieres on a line bike and rode past the crowd,

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Speaker 1: then got fined for parking the bike incorrectly. And then

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Speaker 1: at a recent event for complete unknown walking with Kylie Jenner,

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Speaker 1: eagle eyed fans spotted that he was wearing a bag

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Speaker 1: belonging to Stormy, Kylie Jenner's daughter. It's too much.

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Speaker 3: He's doing the most. He's literally doing.

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Speaker 1: Please calm down, sir. So anyway, then we had to

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Speaker 1: see the movie. Yes, we went to see the movie.

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Speaker 1: Timothe was not there. No, he didn't do a pre

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Speaker 1: recorded video call in later.

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Speaker 2: Which was I guess nice of him to do, but

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Speaker 2: he wasn't there physically. So we watched the movie just

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Speaker 2: as a quick like overview of the movie. No spoilers

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Speaker 2: over here, because I mean, you can't spoil it, because

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Speaker 2: I mean that's true, it's like.

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Speaker 1: Literally fact based. But also I guess we won't tell

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Speaker 1: you now.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we're not going to give you the whole plot.

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Speaker 2: But it's a biopic, but it focuses on the part

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Speaker 2: in the nineteen sixties, like nineteen sixty one to sixty five,

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Speaker 2: where Bob Dylan just starts becoming famous, especially in the

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Speaker 2: folk music scene, and he's in that phase where he

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Speaker 2: wants to experiment with electric music, and everyone in the

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Speaker 2: folk scenes like, no, don't do it, and he's like,

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Speaker 2: I want to do it anyway. And then I think

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Speaker 2: it was after that where we started. I think towards

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Speaker 2: the end of the movie, we started playing like those

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Speaker 2: new electric numbers. Those were the songs that we all

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Speaker 2: know and like our parents love and everyone loves. So

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Speaker 2: the whole movie is about like his struggle with that,

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Speaker 2: plus like his relationships, like trying to manage fame, trying

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Speaker 2: to stick to his root.

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Speaker 3: A lot of that stuff. I didn't enjoy the film.

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Speaker 1: Yes, which so the credits are still rolling. It was

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Speaker 1: quite late at night, we were tired. It was raining outside,

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Speaker 1: so we quickly got it from our seats. We got

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Speaker 1: out of the beautiful Heritage listed theater we were in.

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Speaker 1: We got outside. It was pouring rain, of course, because

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Speaker 1: the wather he's been awful. We both ordered out ubers

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Speaker 1: and then I turned to you and I said, what

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Speaker 1: did you think ready for us to have this? Really? Like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I loved this. I loved that. And you didn't just

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Speaker 1: say you hated it. You say, and I quote, that's

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Speaker 1: the worst thing I've ever seen.

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Speaker 2: And I then corrected myself and said, that's the worst

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Speaker 2: thing I've ever seen in the past year.

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Speaker 1: Okay, well, I mean it's January, So do you mean

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Speaker 1: last year?

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Speaker 3: I mean from last January to now?

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Speaker 1: Okay, I get that. I just also think that's quite

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Speaker 1: a big call. And then I just stared at you dumbfounded,

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Speaker 1: and I was like, but what are this? What about that?

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Speaker 1: And what about? And then my uber arrived and I

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Speaker 1: was like, I'll talk to you about this on the podcast,

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Speaker 1: and they stormed away and we haven't spoken since.

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Speaker 2: No, because I tried to avoid speaking about this film.

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Speaker 2: For firstly, the whole like the whole movie I felt

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Speaker 2: like was two hours too long.

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Speaker 1: It's two and a half hours exactly, okay, just letting

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Speaker 1: people know the run time just in case they want

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Speaker 1: to go to dinner afterwards or something.

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Speaker 2: For I think my issue is not the issue with

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Speaker 2: the movie itself. I think it's I didn't know Bob

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Speaker 2: Dylan that well, and I feel like for you to

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Speaker 2: really appreciate this movie, you would have to know his

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Speaker 2: music and like I guess his life and growing up.

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Speaker 2: Like That's why I said after the movie, I called

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Speaker 2: my dad because he wanted he so desperately wants to watch.

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Speaker 1: His We should have taken him, We should have given

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Speaker 1: him my ticket. But I did tell him had a

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Speaker 1: much better time.

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Speaker 3: I did tell him because I knew you liked it.

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Speaker 2: Everyone else in this same I loved it, and I

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Speaker 2: told him I didn't enjoy it, but I don't want

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Speaker 2: that to be the reason why you don't watch it,

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Speaker 2: because I feel like you are someone who grew up

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Speaker 2: with that music would actually really love the film.

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Speaker 1: See that's so strange because I really disagree with that.

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Speaker 1: I think even if you know nothing about Bob Dylan

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Speaker 1: or all the other musicians from that point in time,

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Speaker 1: you could still enjoy this movie. Like, why did I

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Speaker 1: like it?

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Speaker 3: The only person I liked was Johnny cash a cameo.

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Speaker 1: Well, it's because he came in, delivered a few funny lines,

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Speaker 1: and then drunkenly crushed his cars.

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Speaker 3: He's got some good songs, he does.

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Speaker 1: But I don't think that you need to know that

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Speaker 1: much about Bob Dylan in that moment in time. The

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Speaker 1: thing is, after you watch this movie, you want to

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Speaker 1: go and like google everyone and get all the information.

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Speaker 2: Which is usually how I feel like I felt it

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Speaker 2: him every other biopic I watched, like the Queen biopic

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Speaker 2: about Freddie Mercury, but him in Rhapsody that was about

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Speaker 2: Freddie Mercury, Rocketman, which was about Elton John. Like each

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Speaker 2: one of those, I didn't know much about the musician,

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Speaker 2: but I became so so obsessed. But I did grow

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Speaker 2: up with that kind of music because my parents are

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Speaker 2: played it all the time. Bob Dylan, I didn't recognize

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Speaker 2: one single song in that entire movie.

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Speaker 1: But again, I think if you're coming into this this

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Speaker 1: was if we knew going in this was a fictionalized story,

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Speaker 1: like I still would have been invested in. I was

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Speaker 1: obviously more invested. Yeah, because it's a story of this,

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Speaker 1: Like you track it from the beginning of this young

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Speaker 1: man who travels to visit a musical isle of his

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Speaker 1: who is in the hospital and can no longer speak,

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Speaker 1: and then you see him kind of start to make

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Speaker 1: friends of people in the music community, and then you

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Speaker 1: watch him very slowly rise. And also it's his romantic

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Speaker 1: entanglements and relationships, and.

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Speaker 3: He would be the worst person to be in a relationship.

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Speaker 1: He was the ultimate f boy. And also I think

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Speaker 1: all the women have owned that because he's a musical genius.

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Speaker 1: The musical genius is are always usholes. That's just that's

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Speaker 1: just the rules. So you've got two different stories playing

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Speaker 1: out alongside Timothy Chalomy as Bob Dylan. So you've got

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Speaker 1: el Fanning as Sylvie Russo interesting that Lee that's the

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Speaker 1: only name in the movie that was changed.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Why did they change because asked them to. Oh,

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Speaker 3: but it's pretty obvious. It's about an actual girlfriend.

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Speaker 1: Yes, it's Susie Rottolo who has passed away, and she

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Speaker 1: is on like a really iconic album cover of his.

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Speaker 1: Is like they were very linked. She was an artist

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Speaker 1: and everything in her own right. So she has passed away.

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Speaker 1: Bob Dylan and Joan Bias, who in the movie is

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Speaker 1: played by Monica Barbara, both still alive, and so I

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Speaker 1: guess like they have a bit of a claim over

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Speaker 1: their name and their history and they could come out

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Speaker 1: and say something about the movie if they wanted to.

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Speaker 1: Like Bob Dylan didn't know they were making the movie.

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Speaker 1: He was across the only.

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Speaker 3: Part of the production. Yes, that's so interesting to me.

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Speaker 1: Not to the extent that Elton John was. From my

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Speaker 1: understanding that he was like, this is every scene I

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Speaker 1: am setting out, and I will tell you exactly what

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Speaker 1: to do. He was just aware of it. He said

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Speaker 1: it felt quite accurate to him. The one thing he

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Speaker 1: said is can you please change Susie's name? And that's

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Speaker 1: why they changed it, and it just because it's passed

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Speaker 1: away and they had such an intense relationship and I

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Speaker 1: think he was just being protective of her, which I

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Speaker 1: found really sweet.

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Speaker 2: Actually, the one thing I did really like about this

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Speaker 2: biopic that I thought was different from all the other

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Speaker 2: biopicks I watched, including the latest one Robbie Williams better

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Speaker 2: Man as.

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Speaker 3: The Monkey, that was actually really good.

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Speaker 2: I really enjoyed that anyway, was that I assumed that

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Speaker 2: Bob Dylan wasn't involved in the production because he doesn't

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Speaker 2: come across as a good person.

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Speaker 1: But I also think that's always been his stick, So

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Speaker 1: he's not out here trying to do pr and himself

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Speaker 1: like he very notoriously doesn't like a lot of press.

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Speaker 1: He doesn't like doing interviews. He doesn't even like interacting

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Speaker 1: with fans on that big level. There's some huge awards.

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Speaker 1: He's one of the years he doesn't shop to collect them,

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Speaker 1: and I don't think he was involved in that. He

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Speaker 1: was like checking the script or watching filming. He was

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Speaker 1: just like, yeah, I know you're doing this. Yeah, Timothy

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Speaker 1: is really coming across as me, and he's basically like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's what happened.

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Speaker 2: That's crazy to me because even like Bohemian Rhapsody, where

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Speaker 2: Freddie Mercury is obviously not live anymore, but the band

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Speaker 2: was very much involved in production. Like a lot of

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Speaker 2: those kind of bier pics does make the main person

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Speaker 2: like feel like a star. Yeah, Like it's a very

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Speaker 2: big more like an ode to that person rather than

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Speaker 2: an actual realists biopick was this one felt realistic?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think that just comes down from him

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Speaker 1: not being overly protective of Like he's protective of his music,

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Speaker 1: but not his story. So I think they could tell

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Speaker 1: it more truthfully because there's no backlash against Bob Dylan

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Speaker 1: being like he was a jerk. It's like, yeah, infamously

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Speaker 1: everyone said he was, and he and Joan Biaz, who

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Speaker 1: is also a massive part of the film, with Monica

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Speaker 1: Babarro playing her.

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Speaker 3: She was afraid.

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Speaker 1: She was great. Okay. That's the other thing I want

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Speaker 1: to say, Apart from the fact that over the years,

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Speaker 1: Bob Dylan and Joan Bias have spoken about each other

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Speaker 1: a lot, They've written a lot of songs about each other,

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Speaker 1: like the nature of their relationship and how tumultuous it

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Speaker 1: was and how toxic it was and everything, but also

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Speaker 1: how creative and amazing it was is already out there

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Speaker 1: through their songs and interviews and stuff, So there's nothing

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Speaker 1: to hide in this. The interesting thing is that Elle

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Speaker 1: Fanning is the one who's getting so much praise for

335
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Speaker 1: the movie, who's been getting like award nominations, and she's

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Speaker 1: obviously a bigger name than Monica. And when I saw

337
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Speaker 1: the movie, I actually thought she was more of the standout,

338
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Speaker 1: yeah than Elle Fanning. I thought that el Fanny was bad.

339
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Speaker 1: I think that Monica had maybe the juicier role, and

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Speaker 1: maybe just something about her performance delivered a bit more

341
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Speaker 1: for me, Like I would watch a whole movie of

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Speaker 1: her playing Joan by it she was amazing and there's

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Speaker 1: so much in her story. I found that she was

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Speaker 1: like quite she was the only character that really stole

345
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Speaker 1: the show from Timothy shallow May as Bob Dylan. But

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Speaker 1: then I'm also thinking, like with el Fanner's character, like

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Speaker 1: she often just had the quieter part, Like she wasn't

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Speaker 1: having these things where she's kicking Bob Dylan out of

349
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Speaker 1: her hotel room. She wasn't on stage performing a lot

350
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Speaker 1: of her moments were very quiet, And then maybe you

351
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Speaker 1: should get praised for that as well, But it also

352
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Speaker 1: to me felt like a slightly forgettable role.

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Speaker 2: It felt like two completely different performances, yes, for sure.

354
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Speaker 2: But I do see the appeal of like el Fanning

355
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Speaker 2: being like massively praised for this role, especially that scene

356
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Speaker 2: where she decides to leave her apartment yeah with him.

357
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Speaker 1: Or when she's watching from the stage. And this is

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Speaker 1: the part where I thought el Fanning was the best

359
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Speaker 1: because she doesn't say anything, she doesn't look at anyone.

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Speaker 3: I just realize this.

361
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Speaker 1: You just the camera closes on her face and you

362
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Speaker 1: can just see her mouth is trembling, and she's doing

363
00:16:13,024 --> 00:16:14,544
Speaker 1: that thing you know, you're trying so hard not to

364
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Speaker 1: cry and you're like biting the inside of your lip.

365
00:16:16,664 --> 00:16:18,584
Speaker 1: It really looked like el Fanning was just like the

366
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Speaker 1: emotion on her face, but she was playing the emotion

367
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Speaker 1: but also playing trying not to show it, Yeah, which

368
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Speaker 1: is really difficult. But and then and.

369
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Speaker 2: Also trying to hold your ground as like someone's partner

370
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Speaker 2: in a world that's just like surrounded by other powerful men. Yeah,

371
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Speaker 2: like that scene of her close up in her face

372
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Speaker 2: but then seeing all the men in the background, like

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Speaker 2: watching her watching them was.

374
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Speaker 1: Just Or what did you think of Timo tast singing

375
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Speaker 1: before we sure?

376
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Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, so I did listen to some Bob Dylan

377
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Speaker 2: songs after because I have to be like, wait, does

378
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Speaker 2: he sound like Bob Dylan?

379
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Speaker 3: I don't know.

380
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Speaker 2: I don't know these songs because I clearly have been

381
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Speaker 2: living under rock my entire life. I thought his singing

382
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Speaker 2: voice was good. His dialect, I wish there were subtitles.

383
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Speaker 2: Oh really, I do not understand a single thing he

384
00:17:01,424 --> 00:17:01,984
Speaker 2: was saying.

385
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Speaker 1: Because, especially as he gets further and further along into

386
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Speaker 1: his like I guess, like his fame, but also like

387
00:17:06,464 --> 00:17:08,944
Speaker 1: a bit of like his creative downfall, behind the scenes

388
00:17:08,944 --> 00:17:12,784
Speaker 1: and stuff, he does start talking slower and gruffer and slurry.

389
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Speaker 3: I couldn't understand anything. He said.

390
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Speaker 1: Okay, that's a good note for you to give to timidate. Yeah.

391
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Speaker 2: I also gave that note to my dad because my

392
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Speaker 2: dad does have hearing problems. Oh so I was like,

393
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Speaker 2: maybe streaming so you can have subtitles.

394
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Speaker 1: The only time I thought maybe it was good to

395
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Speaker 1: know more about Bob Dylan's music was towards the end,

396
00:17:29,064 --> 00:17:31,104
Speaker 1: you know, and everyone's like, what songs you can play?

397
00:17:31,144 --> 00:17:32,904
Speaker 1: Is he gonna play the new stuff or the old stuff?

398
00:17:32,944 --> 00:17:34,744
Speaker 1: What's gonna happen? And the song comes on and you

399
00:17:34,784 --> 00:17:36,664
Speaker 1: could tell the Bob Dylan fans and the audience like

400
00:17:37,064 --> 00:17:38,984
Speaker 1: he played the wrong song. And then you can hear

401
00:17:39,024 --> 00:17:41,384
Speaker 1: other people like in the cinema looking around being like,

402
00:17:41,744 --> 00:17:43,104
Speaker 1: was that song he was supposed to play? I have

403
00:17:43,144 --> 00:17:43,544
Speaker 1: no idea.

404
00:17:43,584 --> 00:17:44,904
Speaker 3: Yeah, I didn't understand anything.

405
00:17:44,944 --> 00:17:47,944
Speaker 1: Okay, so you missed a few crucial moments there because

406
00:17:47,984 --> 00:17:49,624
Speaker 1: sometimes I didn't tell you that he played a song

407
00:17:49,664 --> 00:17:51,464
Speaker 1: he wasn't supposed to. He would just started playing it,

408
00:17:51,624 --> 00:17:53,824
Speaker 1: and if the audience would be like, but if you

409
00:17:53,864 --> 00:17:56,304
Speaker 1: didn't know, I was.

410
00:17:56,264 --> 00:17:58,504
Speaker 2: Just like looking at everyone else's reactions, I was like,

411
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Speaker 2: oh shit, okay, did he do the wrong thing or not?

412
00:18:00,584 --> 00:18:03,064
Speaker 3: And I'm like, I'm very confused. Anyway, I can still

413
00:18:03,184 --> 00:18:04,704
Speaker 3: the end of the movie, I'm still confused.

414
00:18:04,744 --> 00:18:06,584
Speaker 1: You're still confused, Yeah, even though it came up with

415
00:18:06,624 --> 00:18:08,264
Speaker 1: the text at the end about what happened to everyone.

416
00:18:08,464 --> 00:18:10,984
Speaker 3: Yeah, but okay, also the text was moving quite fast.

417
00:18:11,104 --> 00:18:14,344
Speaker 1: Okay, you want all of them? So I also I

418
00:18:14,344 --> 00:18:14,624
Speaker 1: don't know.

419
00:18:14,984 --> 00:18:17,104
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I guess I worked out for him,

420
00:18:17,144 --> 00:18:18,864
Speaker 2: Like we all know his name. He seems like a

421
00:18:18,904 --> 00:18:19,984
Speaker 2: pretty successful man.

422
00:18:20,144 --> 00:18:21,984
Speaker 1: I don't think the like, I don't think the crux

423
00:18:22,024 --> 00:18:23,584
Speaker 1: of the film is like is he gonna make it

424
00:18:23,664 --> 00:18:23,864
Speaker 1: or not.

425
00:18:24,264 --> 00:18:25,864
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I was like, Okay, So I guess they

426
00:18:25,904 --> 00:18:28,464
Speaker 2: all appreciated the electric music that happened at the end.

427
00:18:28,584 --> 00:18:30,264
Speaker 1: Yeah, it went on to be one of the most

428
00:18:30,264 --> 00:18:33,944
Speaker 1: influential albums of all time. Yeah, and that alone from history, right.

429
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Speaker 2: Well, that sucks that he had to go through all

430
00:18:35,664 --> 00:18:38,984
Speaker 2: that shit, I guess, But I mean he seems fine now.

431
00:18:39,504 --> 00:18:42,144
Speaker 3: Like it just didn't feel it didn't pull me in, and.

432
00:18:42,024 --> 00:18:43,784
Speaker 2: Like I didn't pull my heart strings enough, Like I

433
00:18:43,784 --> 00:18:45,624
Speaker 2: didn't feel sorry for him in the moments I was

434
00:18:45,624 --> 00:18:46,784
Speaker 2: meant to feel sorry for him.

435
00:18:47,264 --> 00:18:49,864
Speaker 1: What about just watching Edward? Edward Norton was great, by

436
00:18:49,904 --> 00:18:54,344
Speaker 1: the way, so good you like someone. I loved ed

437
00:18:54,384 --> 00:18:56,624
Speaker 1: Norton in this. I actually feel like Monica and ed

438
00:18:56,704 --> 00:18:58,824
Speaker 1: were the two standouts of that movie. Like, I just

439
00:18:58,864 --> 00:19:00,784
Speaker 1: would love to see them getting a few more award

440
00:19:01,184 --> 00:19:04,784
Speaker 1: nominations in the mix. But anyway, we'll have to agree

441
00:19:04,824 --> 00:19:06,504
Speaker 1: to disagree. I thought it was great. I haven't stopped

442
00:19:06,544 --> 00:19:07,184
Speaker 1: thinking about it.

443
00:19:07,224 --> 00:19:09,664
Speaker 3: Obviously, there's some I wish I could join you in that.

444
00:19:09,824 --> 00:19:12,744
Speaker 1: There's some moments of brilliance and some moments where it's

445
00:19:12,744 --> 00:19:15,824
Speaker 1: really messy, and I think they obviously were very nervous

446
00:19:15,904 --> 00:19:17,904
Speaker 1: about cutting any of that. Like, you know, a lot

447
00:19:17,904 --> 00:19:20,304
Speaker 1: of musical biopics where they start to play a song,

448
00:19:20,304 --> 00:19:22,304
Speaker 1: they just do the opening, like notes and stuff. This

449
00:19:22,344 --> 00:19:24,184
Speaker 1: one they're like, no, he's playing the whole song.

450
00:19:24,264 --> 00:19:25,864
Speaker 2: He's playing the whole song. And also all the songs

451
00:19:25,904 --> 00:19:27,224
Speaker 2: kind of sound the same. So when they're like, and

452
00:19:27,264 --> 00:19:29,144
Speaker 2: here's a new one, I'm like, you're playing the same song.

453
00:19:29,184 --> 00:19:30,744
Speaker 2: They're like, and here's a new one. I'm like, this

454
00:19:30,824 --> 00:19:32,864
Speaker 2: is the same song. I listened to that same song

455
00:19:33,024 --> 00:19:34,944
Speaker 2: like what fifty times in that whole film.

456
00:19:34,984 --> 00:19:35,944
Speaker 3: I couldn't tell the difference.

457
00:19:36,064 --> 00:19:38,544
Speaker 1: I feel like that's wildly offensive to Bob Dylan. But

458
00:19:38,584 --> 00:19:41,144
Speaker 1: also he wouldn't care. He wouldn't care, he wouldn't care.

459
00:19:41,184 --> 00:19:43,624
Speaker 1: He would love it. So A Complete Unknown is out

460
00:19:43,624 --> 00:19:46,624
Speaker 1: in cinemas this Thursday. I really liked it. I thought

461
00:19:46,664 --> 00:19:48,704
Speaker 1: it was a great movie, and I can't stop thinking

462
00:19:48,744 --> 00:19:49,664
Speaker 1: about it. I can't stop google.

463
00:19:49,704 --> 00:19:51,304
Speaker 3: I just know all the spillers are going to be

464
00:19:51,384 --> 00:19:51,984
Speaker 3: yelling no.

465
00:19:52,104 --> 00:19:54,824
Speaker 1: I like people might also, I mean, you can take Emily.

466
00:19:54,984 --> 00:19:56,744
Speaker 3: Sorry. I just couldn't lie about this one.

467
00:19:56,904 --> 00:19:59,064
Speaker 1: No, we never want you to lie. So I guess

468
00:19:59,064 --> 00:20:00,544
Speaker 1: if you see it, just let us know. Are you

469
00:20:00,544 --> 00:20:02,744
Speaker 1: a Laura or an Emily, which out of history you're

470
00:20:02,744 --> 00:20:07,704
Speaker 1: falling on. But yeah, at cinemas this week. So the

471
00:20:07,744 --> 00:20:12,184
Speaker 1: February issue of Vanity Fair has just been really and obviously,

472
00:20:12,464 --> 00:20:14,744
Speaker 1: like the rest of the world, they were really thinking

473
00:20:14,744 --> 00:20:17,744
Speaker 1: that we would be deep in Meghan Markle and Prince

474
00:20:17,824 --> 00:20:22,184
Speaker 1: Harry cultural moment because of Megan's Netflix show, which was

475
00:20:22,184 --> 00:20:24,504
Speaker 1: supposed to come out last week. This is the thing

476
00:20:24,544 --> 00:20:25,304
Speaker 1: with print is like.

477
00:20:25,264 --> 00:20:27,824
Speaker 2: This is the issue when you plan ahead exactly everyone

478
00:20:27,904 --> 00:20:28,984
Speaker 2: to do everything on the day.

479
00:20:29,304 --> 00:20:32,144
Speaker 1: I mean, me famously can't do that with a print magazine.

480
00:20:32,184 --> 00:20:34,304
Speaker 1: So I mean, look, people are still talking about it.

481
00:20:34,304 --> 00:20:36,024
Speaker 1: So I don't think there's a bad time to release

482
00:20:36,064 --> 00:20:37,424
Speaker 1: a Harry and Meghan expose a.

483
00:20:37,544 --> 00:20:39,064
Speaker 3: They did look quite beautiful on that cover.

484
00:20:39,304 --> 00:20:40,064
Speaker 1: Well, yeah they did.

485
00:20:40,184 --> 00:20:42,424
Speaker 3: Was a paparazzi shot or was it like an actual photoshit?

486
00:20:42,504 --> 00:20:44,464
Speaker 1: No, it definitely wasn't a photo shoot because they were

487
00:20:44,464 --> 00:20:46,584
Speaker 1: not involved in this. It wouldn't have been a paparazzi shot.

488
00:20:46,624 --> 00:20:48,704
Speaker 1: It would have just been like a photo they licensed from,

489
00:20:48,824 --> 00:20:51,264
Speaker 1: like a publicity photo they licensed from Getty or anything

490
00:20:51,304 --> 00:20:54,504
Speaker 1: like that that you can buy the print rights to. Interesting, Yeah,

491
00:20:54,504 --> 00:20:56,144
Speaker 1: you can't put a paparazzi shot, So I.

492
00:20:56,064 --> 00:20:57,024
Speaker 3: Think Vanity Fair.

493
00:20:57,064 --> 00:21:00,824
Speaker 2: I always think like original headshot, like original cover.

494
00:21:01,584 --> 00:21:05,024
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, they mostly do big kind of celebrity interviews

495
00:21:05,024 --> 00:21:07,104
Speaker 1: for their covers, but they're no one for being a

496
00:21:07,104 --> 00:21:08,824
Speaker 1: magazine who also does like a lot of in depth

497
00:21:08,864 --> 00:21:11,904
Speaker 1: journalism and you know, investigative pieces that sort of stuff

498
00:21:11,944 --> 00:21:15,984
Speaker 1: investigative in like cultural entertainment, not into other things as much.

499
00:21:16,504 --> 00:21:18,624
Speaker 1: So this is not our the realm of possibility for them.

500
00:21:18,704 --> 00:21:21,624
Speaker 1: But yes, Meghan and Harry definitely not involved. So it

501
00:21:21,704 --> 00:21:24,384
Speaker 1: was a big cover story done by Ana Peel who

502
00:21:24,504 --> 00:21:28,064
Speaker 1: kind of was tracking like our five years since they

503
00:21:28,144 --> 00:21:31,424
Speaker 1: walked away from being full time working royals and all

504
00:21:31,504 --> 00:21:34,144
Speaker 1: that debacle that happened and settled in Hollywood. The direct

505
00:21:34,224 --> 00:21:36,704
Speaker 1: line from it is like their big business ambitions, like

506
00:21:36,784 --> 00:21:40,624
Speaker 1: where has that all fallen? And she interviewed a whole

507
00:21:40,624 --> 00:21:42,504
Speaker 1: bunch of people who are no one to the couple

508
00:21:42,704 --> 00:21:44,784
Speaker 1: or who have worked with them over the years at

509
00:21:44,784 --> 00:21:47,064
Speaker 1: their different business ventures and just tried to get as

510
00:21:47,144 --> 00:21:50,264
Speaker 1: much information in there. And there's positive and negative, but

511
00:21:50,384 --> 00:21:53,144
Speaker 1: it maybe does skew a little bit more negative, Can.

512
00:21:53,024 --> 00:21:53,584
Speaker 3: I be honest?

513
00:21:53,704 --> 00:21:57,264
Speaker 2: Yes, I went into that Vanity fair article to read it,

514
00:21:57,984 --> 00:22:01,464
Speaker 2: and when I realized that she didn't actually interview Meghan

515
00:22:01,504 --> 00:22:03,504
Speaker 2: and Harry, I stopped reading.

516
00:22:04,264 --> 00:22:06,464
Speaker 1: I mean, that's a valid point. But at the same time,

517
00:22:06,504 --> 00:22:08,984
Speaker 1: like sometimes in something like this, I guess it's always

518
00:22:08,984 --> 00:22:10,304
Speaker 1: better to have a quote for them. They did reach

519
00:22:10,544 --> 00:22:13,384
Speaker 1: to get quotes and they declined. But sometimes like a

520
00:22:13,424 --> 00:22:15,464
Speaker 1: fully formed piece does better if you don't have the

521
00:22:15,504 --> 00:22:17,824
Speaker 1: subject at the center of it, Like a documentary can

522
00:22:17,824 --> 00:22:20,864
Speaker 1: be better if a third party makes it. Obviously, these

523
00:22:20,864 --> 00:22:22,624
Speaker 1: are people who have all had like not all of

524
00:22:22,664 --> 00:22:24,864
Speaker 1: them are on the record. Some people are speaking, you know,

525
00:22:24,944 --> 00:22:27,144
Speaker 1: behind closed doors and that sort of thing, and obviously

526
00:22:27,184 --> 00:22:29,344
Speaker 1: a lot of people would have different skewed memories of

527
00:22:30,024 --> 00:22:32,184
Speaker 1: what had happened. But there's a lot of allegations in

528
00:22:32,184 --> 00:22:34,624
Speaker 1: there about Megan Markel, I mean, same old stuff, difficult

529
00:22:34,624 --> 00:22:37,624
Speaker 1: to work with, can be very cold, can be very

530
00:22:37,704 --> 00:22:39,184
Speaker 1: like calculated.

531
00:22:38,544 --> 00:22:39,664
Speaker 3: Which just stuff we've heard before.

532
00:22:39,824 --> 00:22:41,904
Speaker 1: Yeah, And the idea was to be like not going

533
00:22:41,944 --> 00:22:44,544
Speaker 1: back to those rumors that happened when they were in

534
00:22:44,584 --> 00:22:46,344
Speaker 1: the palace in the UK, to trying to get like

535
00:22:46,384 --> 00:22:49,024
Speaker 1: what has happened on the ground in la since then,

536
00:22:49,144 --> 00:22:50,824
Speaker 1: And a lot of people were sort of telling the

537
00:22:50,824 --> 00:22:53,784
Speaker 1: same kind of story. One lovely takeaway from it, Well,

538
00:22:53,824 --> 00:22:55,704
Speaker 1: there's two things that almost cancel each other out, but

539
00:22:55,704 --> 00:22:57,984
Speaker 1: I'm going to choose the positive. A saurce. So they're

540
00:22:58,064 --> 00:23:00,224
Speaker 1: very hot for each other, still very much in love,

541
00:23:00,504 --> 00:23:04,184
Speaker 1: very together, and that she's very much the caretaker of

542
00:23:04,664 --> 00:23:05,064
Speaker 1: the couple.

543
00:23:05,224 --> 00:23:07,064
Speaker 2: Is that like, because there's so many rumors going around

544
00:23:07,064 --> 00:23:08,104
Speaker 2: that they're divorcing.

545
00:23:08,384 --> 00:23:11,064
Speaker 1: Yes. And then also in the piece, people are saying

546
00:23:11,144 --> 00:23:15,104
Speaker 1: that a while ago, memoir written by Meghan, or a

547
00:23:15,144 --> 00:23:18,304
Speaker 1: book about her divorce from Prince Harry, was being shopped

548
00:23:18,304 --> 00:23:22,424
Speaker 1: around to publishers, which I don't know, I mean at

549
00:23:22,464 --> 00:23:24,104
Speaker 1: this point in time. A lot of people are reporting

550
00:23:24,104 --> 00:23:25,544
Speaker 1: this as fact at this point in time, Like it

551
00:23:25,584 --> 00:23:28,744
Speaker 1: literally says a few years ago, a rumor begins circulating

552
00:23:28,744 --> 00:23:32,624
Speaker 1: about a book from the perspective of Megan, And what

553
00:23:32,624 --> 00:23:35,144
Speaker 1: they're saying is that her team had a conversation with

554
00:23:35,184 --> 00:23:37,784
Speaker 1: a publishing house to see what the interests would be,

555
00:23:37,824 --> 00:23:41,664
Speaker 1: and they were saying, like, hypothetically, if someone like Meghan

556
00:23:41,704 --> 00:23:44,544
Speaker 1: Markle was to come to you with a book centering

557
00:23:44,544 --> 00:23:46,904
Speaker 1: on her divorce, like what would the you know, the

558
00:23:46,944 --> 00:23:50,984
Speaker 1: payment and terms be interesting, but also nothing kind of

559
00:23:51,464 --> 00:23:54,224
Speaker 1: it seems very like he said. She said, though, yeah,

560
00:23:54,224 --> 00:23:56,624
Speaker 1: that's a hard one to prove because there's no written

561
00:23:56,624 --> 00:24:00,104
Speaker 1: documentation of this, there's no formal proposal, no one's really

562
00:24:00,104 --> 00:24:03,704
Speaker 1: put their name to it. So basically they were saying, like, theoretically,

563
00:24:03,784 --> 00:24:06,064
Speaker 1: if this couple was to get divorced, like, what would

564
00:24:06,064 --> 00:24:07,824
Speaker 1: you call if we kind of get for that?

565
00:24:08,344 --> 00:24:12,184
Speaker 2: Oh but yeah, it's just so hard for me to

566
00:24:12,264 --> 00:24:14,384
Speaker 2: kind of like invest in a big piece because I

567
00:24:14,384 --> 00:24:17,944
Speaker 2: feel like sometimes, especially with publications like this, I feel

568
00:24:17,984 --> 00:24:21,944
Speaker 2: like they just like it's hard to separate them from

569
00:24:22,064 --> 00:24:24,264
Speaker 2: just like what everyone else is feeling. Like, I feel

570
00:24:24,304 --> 00:24:26,304
Speaker 2: like a lot of them lean into like this is

571
00:24:26,344 --> 00:24:28,624
Speaker 2: what the audience is feeling, so let's lean our piece

572
00:24:28,744 --> 00:24:31,064
Speaker 2: into like that consensus.

573
00:24:31,424 --> 00:24:33,904
Speaker 3: And it just feels like that sometimes Whendy Fair just

574
00:24:33,944 --> 00:24:35,064
Speaker 3: hates Megan mircale.

575
00:24:35,464 --> 00:24:37,024
Speaker 1: It does seem a little bit like that. I mean,

576
00:24:37,064 --> 00:24:38,744
Speaker 1: not that they hate Megan Mikale. I think they just

577
00:24:38,824 --> 00:24:40,584
Speaker 1: know it's interesting. I read a piece about this last

578
00:24:40,584 --> 00:24:43,344
Speaker 1: week about how the public is just so primed, oh.

579
00:24:43,384 --> 00:24:46,104
Speaker 3: Negative piece by linking it in the show notes, Oh thanky.

580
00:24:46,144 --> 00:24:47,384
Speaker 1: I mean I wasn't gonna say it, but thank you

581
00:24:47,424 --> 00:24:49,824
Speaker 1: for that about how the public is just so primed

582
00:24:49,904 --> 00:24:52,224
Speaker 1: to like be against Megan, will be suspicious of her,

583
00:24:52,264 --> 00:24:54,104
Speaker 1: that you can just really use a bit of a

584
00:24:54,104 --> 00:24:56,264
Speaker 1: shorthand now in your reporting of her or like your

585
00:24:56,304 --> 00:24:58,984
Speaker 1: opinions on her. You can just breadcrumb a few facts

586
00:24:58,984 --> 00:25:01,064
Speaker 1: and people will do the rest of the work, which

587
00:25:01,104 --> 00:25:02,984
Speaker 1: is what happened here. Like it's been said like this

588
00:25:03,064 --> 00:25:05,624
Speaker 1: is a takedown, this is so damning for them, none

589
00:25:05,624 --> 00:25:07,624
Speaker 1: ever recover. But if you kind of look through it,

590
00:25:07,624 --> 00:25:08,904
Speaker 1: like there is a lot of bad stuff in there,

591
00:25:08,944 --> 00:25:10,824
Speaker 1: but there's a lot of good as well. And also

592
00:25:10,944 --> 00:25:14,064
Speaker 1: again it's not like it's been factually corroborated by Verity

593
00:25:14,144 --> 00:25:16,624
Speaker 1: Fair and the journalists behind the scenes, but not so

594
00:25:16,744 --> 00:25:19,024
Speaker 1: much to us. And there's even some things in there

595
00:25:19,064 --> 00:25:20,904
Speaker 1: that are quite light that have been taken in a

596
00:25:20,944 --> 00:25:23,384
Speaker 1: really intense way. So like they're talking about the Spotify

597
00:25:23,424 --> 00:25:25,384
Speaker 1: ideal and how Meghan and Harry had all these big

598
00:25:25,424 --> 00:25:27,384
Speaker 1: ideas but they didn't actually know how to sort of

599
00:25:27,864 --> 00:25:29,864
Speaker 1: bring any of them the forefront, and so they say

600
00:25:29,944 --> 00:25:31,704
Speaker 1: Megan didn't even come up with the idea for her

601
00:25:31,744 --> 00:25:34,784
Speaker 1: Archetypes podcast, and they weren't able to deliver in all

602
00:25:34,824 --> 00:25:36,024
Speaker 1: these sorts of things.

603
00:25:35,744 --> 00:25:37,904
Speaker 2: And like depending on the tone how you read that,

604
00:25:38,144 --> 00:25:40,424
Speaker 2: it would just come across different for everyone, because I

605
00:25:40,424 --> 00:25:42,784
Speaker 2: think you're right, Like it would have like both good

606
00:25:42,784 --> 00:25:45,704
Speaker 2: and bad, but you would have to know the like

607
00:25:45,944 --> 00:25:48,304
Speaker 2: heaviness of the impact of the bad versus the good,

608
00:25:48,424 --> 00:25:50,584
Speaker 2: like what you're saying with bread crumbing, like you could

609
00:25:50,664 --> 00:25:52,904
Speaker 2: have You couldn't not do an article like this and

610
00:25:52,944 --> 00:25:55,744
Speaker 2: make the holding positive like people would hate that.

611
00:25:55,944 --> 00:25:57,584
Speaker 1: Yeah, it would feel like a puff piece. Yeah, but

612
00:25:57,584 --> 00:25:59,304
Speaker 1: I guess this isn't even breadcumbing. This is like a

613
00:25:59,304 --> 00:26:03,344
Speaker 1: whole loaf of bridge in the middle, just like some

614
00:26:03,464 --> 00:26:07,064
Speaker 1: night people like hate Megan Markle. There's yeah, quite a

615
00:26:07,104 --> 00:26:09,944
Speaker 1: bit in there. So Megan and Harry declined to comment.

616
00:26:10,504 --> 00:26:12,824
Speaker 1: Few sources have come out, but again, you know, read

617
00:26:12,864 --> 00:26:14,904
Speaker 1: into that what you will saying that they're quite upset

618
00:26:15,104 --> 00:26:18,984
Speaker 1: about the whole situation, which I also think obviously obviously

619
00:26:19,264 --> 00:26:21,384
Speaker 1: don't need a well placed source. I mean they're upset,

620
00:26:21,464 --> 00:26:22,344
Speaker 1: especially Meghan, Like.

621
00:26:22,344 --> 00:26:25,304
Speaker 2: Come on, her dog just died, yeah, and I just

622
00:26:25,464 --> 00:26:27,864
Speaker 2: wanted to deal with and the whole community around her

623
00:26:27,984 --> 00:26:29,024
Speaker 2: is like burnt to the ground.

624
00:26:29,664 --> 00:26:31,904
Speaker 1: And yeah, so apparently they are quite upset about it.

625
00:26:31,944 --> 00:26:33,944
Speaker 1: But there's a bit of a deeper story here, I think,

626
00:26:34,024 --> 00:26:36,424
Speaker 1: and I think it's once you kind of know the backstory,

627
00:26:36,464 --> 00:26:39,224
Speaker 1: you can see why Megan and Harry would never give

628
00:26:39,224 --> 00:26:42,224
Speaker 1: any information to Vanity Fair comment on a story, give

629
00:26:42,264 --> 00:26:44,864
Speaker 1: them any kind of access, because they have had a

630
00:26:44,904 --> 00:26:47,544
Speaker 1: bit of a uneasy relationship with them in the past.

631
00:26:47,824 --> 00:26:50,144
Speaker 1: And I think it's so different to you know, Meghan

632
00:26:50,184 --> 00:26:54,144
Speaker 1: has sued tabloid publications. Harry has been very much against

633
00:26:54,184 --> 00:26:56,304
Speaker 1: like the British press in particular. He said it's been

634
00:26:56,344 --> 00:26:58,864
Speaker 1: like fueling all the stories he's been telling and the

635
00:26:58,864 --> 00:27:00,344
Speaker 1: work he's doing. It. It was the whole point of his

636
00:27:00,424 --> 00:27:03,464
Speaker 1: memoir is to kind of show how unfair that system is.

637
00:27:03,544 --> 00:27:05,184
Speaker 1: And I think that gets a lot of attention. But

638
00:27:05,304 --> 00:27:08,944
Speaker 1: also there are some more reputable publications that Meghan has

639
00:27:08,984 --> 00:27:11,584
Speaker 1: given access to that she's been burnt with over the years,

640
00:27:11,584 --> 00:27:14,664
Speaker 1: and Vanity Fair is one of them because her first

641
00:27:14,704 --> 00:27:17,864
Speaker 1: big magazine cover story and I remember this twenty seventeen.

642
00:27:17,584 --> 00:27:19,104
Speaker 3: I remember this very.

643
00:27:18,744 --> 00:27:22,104
Speaker 1: The Vanity Fair cover with Mega Michael, stunning cover. She

644
00:27:22,144 --> 00:27:24,424
Speaker 1: looks amazing. Apparently she hitded the photo like Meg, don't

645
00:27:24,424 --> 00:27:26,744
Speaker 1: be so hard on yourself. You look great, perfect blush

646
00:27:26,784 --> 00:27:29,104
Speaker 1: poice meant perfect fracken perfect.

647
00:27:28,824 --> 00:27:31,664
Speaker 3: And that close up and you can't see a single little.

648
00:27:31,464 --> 00:27:32,784
Speaker 1: I mean, say what you want about that woman. She

649
00:27:32,784 --> 00:27:34,944
Speaker 1: has a perfect face, Yeah she does. So that's nice

650
00:27:34,944 --> 00:27:38,424
Speaker 1: for her anyway, so her happy for her must be nice.

651
00:27:38,624 --> 00:27:40,584
Speaker 1: So she did this cover story with Vanity Fair. This

652
00:27:40,664 --> 00:27:42,864
Speaker 1: wasn't she was still dating Harry, but it was official

653
00:27:42,904 --> 00:27:45,344
Speaker 1: that they were dating, so they weren't having to hide anymore.

654
00:27:45,664 --> 00:27:48,624
Speaker 1: And apparently she had to get permission from the Palace

655
00:27:48,664 --> 00:27:50,704
Speaker 1: and the Queen to do the interview all that sort

656
00:27:50,744 --> 00:27:53,464
Speaker 1: of stuff, and she was given that, and she had

657
00:27:53,544 --> 00:27:56,344
Speaker 1: hired a new publicist, and from what's kind of been

658
00:27:56,424 --> 00:27:59,624
Speaker 1: pieced together over the years, Megan and her team's understanding

659
00:27:59,664 --> 00:28:01,224
Speaker 1: was that it was going to be a big interview

660
00:28:01,264 --> 00:28:04,424
Speaker 1: about her and her acting career and her business and

661
00:28:04,864 --> 00:28:06,144
Speaker 1: all of those sorts of things.

662
00:28:06,184 --> 00:28:08,424
Speaker 3: But they would have had to know it wouldn't have been.

663
00:28:08,544 --> 00:28:11,264
Speaker 1: It's hard to say, because afterwards she was upset that

664
00:28:11,264 --> 00:28:12,864
Speaker 1: it wasn't centered on her. But at the same time,

665
00:28:12,904 --> 00:28:15,264
Speaker 1: it's like just the mechanics of this, like as an

666
00:28:15,304 --> 00:28:17,984
Speaker 1: actress on suits who like people liked and everything, but

667
00:28:18,024 --> 00:28:19,344
Speaker 1: you're not booking a Vanity Fair.

668
00:28:19,224 --> 00:28:22,304
Speaker 2: Far Yeah, that's what confused me about the whole situation,

669
00:28:22,344 --> 00:28:24,344
Speaker 2: Like I felt so bad for because it was actually

670
00:28:24,384 --> 00:28:26,144
Speaker 2: like one of the scariest.

671
00:28:25,784 --> 00:28:26,984
Speaker 3: Thing I've ever read.

672
00:28:27,184 --> 00:28:30,264
Speaker 2: But like her actual the process of how it happened

673
00:28:30,304 --> 00:28:32,384
Speaker 2: was very confusing because I'm like, you are still like

674
00:28:32,424 --> 00:28:34,544
Speaker 2: I wouldn't even say, like an alest celebrity you are

675
00:28:34,624 --> 00:28:37,504
Speaker 2: now since you're dating to marry, but like I only

676
00:28:37,544 --> 00:28:39,344
Speaker 2: knew you because my mum watched suits. So for me,

677
00:28:39,504 --> 00:28:42,984
Speaker 2: you'll like be kind of c yeah, exactly, you can't

678
00:28:42,984 --> 00:28:45,264
Speaker 2: be able to see and be celebrity. And then Vanity

679
00:28:45,264 --> 00:28:47,104
Speaker 2: Fair reach out to you, and you're like, oh, yeah,

680
00:28:47,384 --> 00:28:49,144
Speaker 2: this is going to be just about me and my.

681
00:28:49,224 --> 00:28:51,944
Speaker 1: Career, and it was to me very much was me.

682
00:28:52,144 --> 00:28:54,144
Speaker 1: So it was a picture of me dating.

683
00:28:53,904 --> 00:28:57,384
Speaker 2: Zac Efron, Vanity Fair reaching out to me. I just

684
00:28:57,384 --> 00:28:59,144
Speaker 2: want to talk about the spill. And then I'm like,

685
00:28:59,184 --> 00:29:01,464
Speaker 2: why wouldn't they just let me talk about the spill?

686
00:29:01,584 --> 00:29:03,224
Speaker 2: They kept bringing Zack into this.

687
00:29:03,424 --> 00:29:05,344
Speaker 1: Yeah, it would it would be exactly like that. You're right,

688
00:29:05,344 --> 00:29:05,744
Speaker 1: I would love.

689
00:29:05,664 --> 00:29:07,224
Speaker 3: To see that happen, But I'm just trying to manifest.

690
00:29:07,424 --> 00:29:09,704
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm right there with you. So there was the

691
00:29:09,784 --> 00:29:12,464
Speaker 1: tagline with it. She'd only given a few quotes about Harry,

692
00:29:12,544 --> 00:29:14,184
Speaker 1: very much like, you know, we're very happy la la,

693
00:29:14,264 --> 00:29:16,104
Speaker 1: that sort of stuff. They were the tagline to the

694
00:29:16,104 --> 00:29:18,624
Speaker 1: magazine on the front cover, so it had across her

695
00:29:18,624 --> 00:29:22,144
Speaker 1: face as the headline, She's just wild about Harry.

696
00:29:22,504 --> 00:29:25,104
Speaker 3: Oh that hurts. I remember, that's so clear.

697
00:29:25,464 --> 00:29:27,904
Speaker 1: I actually thought when I saw it was quite sweet. Nice.

698
00:29:27,944 --> 00:29:29,664
Speaker 1: But I mean, I know she didn't say that quote,

699
00:29:29,704 --> 00:29:31,744
Speaker 1: and she definitely didn't, but I just assumed it. You know,

700
00:29:31,744 --> 00:29:32,984
Speaker 1: that's what magazine covers.

701
00:29:32,704 --> 00:29:34,984
Speaker 3: Do and cover story crazy wolcome.

702
00:29:35,184 --> 00:29:37,224
Speaker 1: Yeah, they just take the essence of what you said

703
00:29:37,224 --> 00:29:38,784
Speaker 1: and then they juzz it up and put it into

704
00:29:38,824 --> 00:29:41,864
Speaker 1: a headline. So Megan was apparently very upset about it.

705
00:29:41,944 --> 00:29:44,264
Speaker 1: The Palace was very upset about it. She was very

706
00:29:44,264 --> 00:29:47,544
Speaker 1: angry at her publicity team. She was angry at Vanity Fair. Allegedly,

707
00:29:47,744 --> 00:29:50,544
Speaker 1: Megan and Harry contacted Vanity Fair and we're trying to

708
00:29:50,624 --> 00:29:53,024
Speaker 1: change the headline on the website. Obviously can change the

709
00:29:53,064 --> 00:29:56,064
Speaker 1: physical magazine. Vanity Fair declined. There was a big back

710
00:29:56,064 --> 00:29:59,104
Speaker 1: and forth, and even though it was a very positive piece,

711
00:29:59,264 --> 00:30:01,984
Speaker 1: obviously it was so focused on her relationship with Harry

712
00:30:02,184 --> 00:30:04,944
Speaker 1: and this really started I understand also from her point

713
00:30:04,944 --> 00:30:06,224
Speaker 1: of view, Like, yeah, it might have been a little

714
00:30:06,304 --> 00:30:09,184
Speaker 1: naive going into it, but it did start this whole

715
00:30:09,624 --> 00:30:11,584
Speaker 1: thing against her, which is still going to this day,

716
00:30:11,624 --> 00:30:13,864
Speaker 1: that she's fame hungry, that she knew who Harry was,

717
00:30:13,904 --> 00:30:15,584
Speaker 1: that she set her sights in him, and she was

718
00:30:15,664 --> 00:30:19,144
Speaker 1: only using him to like further her career and become famous,

719
00:30:19,184 --> 00:30:21,944
Speaker 1: and so doing this big magazine cover story right out

720
00:30:21,944 --> 00:30:24,864
Speaker 1: of the gate when they're like newly public and having

721
00:30:24,904 --> 00:30:27,344
Speaker 1: his name across like a picture of her in a

722
00:30:27,344 --> 00:30:29,944
Speaker 1: magazine cover, Like if you don't know the backstory and

723
00:30:30,024 --> 00:30:32,544
Speaker 1: you believed she was fame hungry, that would lead into it.

724
00:30:32,664 --> 00:30:36,704
Speaker 2: Also, the specific use of the word wild was so

725
00:30:36,784 --> 00:30:40,304
Speaker 2: interesting to me because that's exactly how Harry was described

726
00:30:40,304 --> 00:30:42,264
Speaker 2: in all the tabloids when he was younger and going

727
00:30:42,304 --> 00:30:45,104
Speaker 2: to those parties like while Harry, the Royal family can't

728
00:30:45,104 --> 00:30:48,424
Speaker 2: control them, and that Like I remember seeing that headline

729
00:30:48,464 --> 00:30:51,784
Speaker 2: on Megan and it almost eluded that headline with the

730
00:30:51,904 --> 00:30:53,944
Speaker 2: use of the word wild, eluded that she was just

731
00:30:54,104 --> 00:30:57,464
Speaker 2: part of that aspect of his life. Yeah, yeah, and

732
00:30:57,504 --> 00:31:00,304
Speaker 2: it's completely wrong. I just thought that use of the

733
00:31:00,304 --> 00:31:02,424
Speaker 2: word wild was so interesting.

734
00:31:01,984 --> 00:31:03,424
Speaker 1: Because when you look at her question, she only made

735
00:31:03,424 --> 00:31:05,704
Speaker 1: two little quotes about Harry. When they asked her, she said,

736
00:31:05,744 --> 00:31:08,944
Speaker 1: we're in love, okay, which fair enough. Then she said,

737
00:31:08,984 --> 00:31:10,904
Speaker 1: this time is for us. It's out of what makes

738
00:31:10,904 --> 00:31:13,344
Speaker 1: it so special that it's just our So basically she

739
00:31:13,344 --> 00:31:15,864
Speaker 1: started not answering other questions. It's just for us, she said.

740
00:31:15,864 --> 00:31:18,264
Speaker 1: But we're happy personally. I love a great love story.

741
00:31:18,384 --> 00:31:19,024
Speaker 3: Is that all she said?

742
00:31:19,024 --> 00:31:19,744
Speaker 1: That's all she said.

743
00:31:20,064 --> 00:31:23,104
Speaker 2: And then the Vanity Fair was like, this motherfucker's wild.

744
00:31:23,664 --> 00:31:26,984
Speaker 1: She's wild, dude, and getting back to the use of

745
00:31:27,024 --> 00:31:29,904
Speaker 1: she's wild. So apparently Meghan and Harry were and I

746
00:31:29,944 --> 00:31:31,304
Speaker 1: didn't know this, So this is why it's good to

747
00:31:31,344 --> 00:31:31,584
Speaker 1: kind of.

748
00:31:32,824 --> 00:31:35,464
Speaker 2: Saying I love you and you're like, you're wild, wild,

749
00:31:35,784 --> 00:31:36,744
Speaker 2: crazy girl.

750
00:31:36,904 --> 00:31:38,864
Speaker 1: Well, the reason they did it, and again I don't

751
00:31:38,864 --> 00:31:40,904
Speaker 1: think Vanity Fair has ever said that this was the reason.

752
00:31:40,944 --> 00:31:43,424
Speaker 1: But the reason that Harry and Meghan were upset about

753
00:31:43,424 --> 00:31:46,904
Speaker 1: it is that they felt the headline was racially motivated

754
00:31:47,384 --> 00:31:50,064
Speaker 1: and it was linked to the song I'm Just Wild

755
00:31:50,064 --> 00:31:54,224
Speaker 1: About Harry, which had been performed by Judy Garland and

756
00:31:54,384 --> 00:31:59,024
Speaker 1: Mickey Rooney. Oh, Mickey Rooney in blackface. Yeah, and then

757
00:31:59,304 --> 00:32:01,504
Speaker 1: nineteen thirty nine film Babes in Arms.

758
00:32:01,504 --> 00:32:03,304
Speaker 3: That's true. Yeah, that did happen.

759
00:32:03,384 --> 00:32:04,024
Speaker 1: That did happen.

760
00:32:04,304 --> 00:32:07,024
Speaker 2: Yeah, I can see that connection very clearly. Like I

761
00:32:07,024 --> 00:32:08,744
Speaker 2: don't think that's a far fetched connection.

762
00:32:08,904 --> 00:32:10,984
Speaker 1: Oh no, no, no, I just didn't know that backstory of

763
00:32:10,984 --> 00:32:12,824
Speaker 1: the link of that song. And you got to think

764
00:32:12,864 --> 00:32:15,504
Speaker 1: like the time and effort that goes into you know,

765
00:32:15,624 --> 00:32:17,504
Speaker 1: like a Vanity Fair cover. And again I'm not saying

766
00:32:17,504 --> 00:32:19,024
Speaker 1: that the person who put that cover line on was

767
00:32:19,064 --> 00:32:21,024
Speaker 1: like this is links to the song that was done

768
00:32:21,064 --> 00:32:23,464
Speaker 1: in blackface. I'm gonna put it across Megan, like I

769
00:32:23,504 --> 00:32:25,224
Speaker 1: don't know what happened in the room, but like you

770
00:32:25,224 --> 00:32:27,944
Speaker 1: should have checked that and been like, this could look

771
00:32:28,064 --> 00:32:30,824
Speaker 1: very racially motivated. Yeah, and it could be very upsetting,

772
00:32:30,864 --> 00:32:33,424
Speaker 1: And it's alluding to a really horrific time in Hollywood

773
00:32:33,424 --> 00:32:35,984
Speaker 1: that is also still quite happening now. So maybe I'll

774
00:32:36,024 --> 00:32:37,024
Speaker 1: put a different headline on.

775
00:32:37,224 --> 00:32:39,544
Speaker 2: And at the time when people found out that she

776
00:32:39,824 --> 00:32:43,464
Speaker 2: was dating Harry, like people are still so racist, like

777
00:32:43,624 --> 00:32:46,344
Speaker 2: on socials, like all the commentary on it from like

778
00:32:46,424 --> 00:32:51,624
Speaker 2: both America and England were just so like disgustingly racist,

779
00:32:52,184 --> 00:32:54,584
Speaker 2: and that plus the vanity fair issue that would have.

780
00:32:54,584 --> 00:32:56,544
Speaker 3: Just been so messed up.

781
00:32:56,624 --> 00:32:58,664
Speaker 1: Well, that's why Harry had to put I love just

782
00:32:58,664 --> 00:33:01,144
Speaker 1: calling Harry and Meg's are all friends. That's why Harry

783
00:33:01,144 --> 00:33:04,144
Speaker 1: put out that statement that was quite groundbreaking and unprecedented

784
00:33:04,144 --> 00:33:06,104
Speaker 1: at the time when he started dating Megan Markele when

785
00:33:06,104 --> 00:33:08,984
Speaker 1: he put out that statement saying, the media and the

786
00:33:08,984 --> 00:33:11,584
Speaker 1: way people are talking about her is really racially motivated

787
00:33:11,584 --> 00:33:14,384
Speaker 1: and like you basically stop it. Yeah, and it said

788
00:33:14,384 --> 00:33:15,904
Speaker 1: that the Royal family was like, don't do that, like

789
00:33:15,944 --> 00:33:17,784
Speaker 1: we just all put up with it, and he was like, no, no,

790
00:33:18,184 --> 00:33:19,904
Speaker 1: can you not see what they say about the stuff

791
00:33:19,904 --> 00:33:21,584
Speaker 1: they say about us and the stuff they're saying about

792
00:33:21,624 --> 00:33:22,584
Speaker 1: her is very different.

793
00:33:22,744 --> 00:33:25,064
Speaker 2: Yeah, And then they did that big Oprah interview and

794
00:33:25,104 --> 00:33:26,944
Speaker 2: then we found out it was in just the public

795
00:33:26,984 --> 00:33:28,024
Speaker 2: saying some of that stuff.

796
00:33:28,344 --> 00:33:30,824
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, it was also the royal family. So that

797
00:33:31,064 --> 00:33:34,064
Speaker 1: bridge is kind of burnt with vanity fair. And I

798
00:33:34,144 --> 00:33:36,344
Speaker 1: just think it's interesting how you just think a lot

799
00:33:36,384 --> 00:33:38,664
Speaker 1: of the time that Megan like stories get written about her,

800
00:33:39,024 --> 00:33:40,504
Speaker 1: and you think, but if she would just talk into

801
00:33:40,544 --> 00:33:42,824
Speaker 1: the journalist, maybe she would feel safer and they would

802
00:33:42,824 --> 00:33:45,424
Speaker 1: tell it differently. And obviously she felt very safe with Oprah,

803
00:33:45,664 --> 00:33:47,544
Speaker 1: and I think sometimes there's this push of like, why

804
00:33:47,544 --> 00:33:50,704
Speaker 1: doesn't she do more interviews? Why is she just doing

805
00:33:50,784 --> 00:33:53,464
Speaker 1: like documentaries or Instagram posts that sort of thing. But

806
00:33:53,544 --> 00:33:55,304
Speaker 1: if you look at what happened with Vanity Fair where

807
00:33:55,304 --> 00:33:56,784
Speaker 1: she thought she was going in for this puff piece

808
00:33:56,824 --> 00:33:58,744
Speaker 1: and then feels like she was thrown onto the bus,

809
00:33:59,064 --> 00:34:01,984
Speaker 1: and then what happened with that Remember that Cut article

810
00:34:02,024 --> 00:34:04,624
Speaker 1: that came out in twenty twenty two. No, so the

811
00:34:04,664 --> 00:34:07,904
Speaker 1: Cut journalist Alison P. Davis, who's a feature at IT

812
00:34:07,944 --> 00:34:11,104
Speaker 1: at the time, went to her home. Those profiles when

813
00:34:11,144 --> 00:34:13,104
Speaker 1: you spend the day with them them and you write

814
00:34:13,104 --> 00:34:14,384
Speaker 1: it up. But it was such a big deal at

815
00:34:14,384 --> 00:34:17,384
Speaker 1: the time. Because they've left the Royal family, they haven't

816
00:34:17,384 --> 00:34:19,504
Speaker 1: had a lot of access to them. This was a

817
00:34:19,504 --> 00:34:22,144
Speaker 1: big feature, Like it's a huge get to be like, yeah, Megan,

818
00:34:22,184 --> 00:34:25,824
Speaker 1: Michael will spend the day with you. And in the piece,

819
00:34:26,584 --> 00:34:30,304
Speaker 1: the journalist describes Megan Markle as acting like a reality

820
00:34:30,624 --> 00:34:34,064
Speaker 1: TV producer throughout the whole entire day in the interview,

821
00:34:34,144 --> 00:34:37,184
Speaker 1: like trying to stage manage Oh my god, I do remember, yeah,

822
00:34:37,224 --> 00:34:39,664
Speaker 1: stage managing her all of that sort of stuff, telling

823
00:34:39,744 --> 00:34:42,304
Speaker 1: her what to say, this was the worst part. It

824
00:34:42,304 --> 00:34:43,824
Speaker 1: actually made me feel a bit iggy as a journalist

825
00:34:43,864 --> 00:34:45,984
Speaker 1: because it's a hard thing of like you want to

826
00:34:45,984 --> 00:34:47,704
Speaker 1: write what happened and you don't want to leave anything out,

827
00:34:47,744 --> 00:34:50,704
Speaker 1: like that's your job. But at the same time, sometimes

828
00:34:50,704 --> 00:34:53,424
Speaker 1: someone is just like you just know they've forgotten that

829
00:34:53,584 --> 00:34:55,384
Speaker 1: you're going to write what they're doing in this moment.

830
00:34:55,504 --> 00:34:57,464
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not just about what they're saying to you.

831
00:34:57,464 --> 00:34:59,824
Speaker 2: You're writing about like where you're sitting about, like their

832
00:34:59,864 --> 00:35:02,784
Speaker 2: reactions to things. Yeah, no matter what, you just get

833
00:35:02,824 --> 00:35:04,224
Speaker 2: to johnned down exactly.

834
00:35:04,264 --> 00:35:06,384
Speaker 1: So she was saying that Megan Michael was stage managing

835
00:35:06,384 --> 00:35:08,584
Speaker 1: her to such an extreme effect, and then she says

836
00:35:08,624 --> 00:35:11,024
Speaker 1: at one point that she leans over to her and

837
00:35:11,064 --> 00:35:15,024
Speaker 1: started suggesting. Apparently Megan was making some like guttural noises

838
00:35:15,064 --> 00:35:17,144
Speaker 1: and she stopped making them, and she leaned over to

839
00:35:17,144 --> 00:35:18,984
Speaker 1: the right and was like, this is how you should

840
00:35:18,984 --> 00:35:21,064
Speaker 1: write it, like say that I'm making these noises, say

841
00:35:21,064 --> 00:35:22,664
Speaker 1: it this way, like do this, do that, and the

842
00:35:22,664 --> 00:35:26,224
Speaker 1: writers like she started like describing the noises she was

843
00:35:26,264 --> 00:35:27,984
Speaker 1: making to me and how I should frame it, and

844
00:35:27,984 --> 00:35:28,464
Speaker 1: it was like she.

845
00:35:28,504 --> 00:35:29,264
Speaker 3: Was like editing her.

846
00:35:29,384 --> 00:35:32,224
Speaker 1: Yeah, she was trying to manufacture a moment through this journalist,

847
00:35:32,264 --> 00:35:34,264
Speaker 1: and instead of the journalists being like Meghan sat down

848
00:35:34,264 --> 00:35:36,864
Speaker 1: and she started making a gruff, guttural sound that came

849
00:35:36,864 --> 00:35:39,264
Speaker 1: from her stomach. You could see the anguish like I'm

850
00:35:39,304 --> 00:35:41,024
Speaker 1: not sure. I'm like if that's what Megan wanted her

851
00:35:41,024 --> 00:35:43,464
Speaker 1: to write. But then instead of writing that, she's right,

852
00:35:43,624 --> 00:35:45,344
Speaker 1: Megan Michael leaned over to me and told me to

853
00:35:45,344 --> 00:35:48,184
Speaker 1: write this about her, which then made her look ridiculous.

854
00:35:48,264 --> 00:35:50,544
Speaker 3: Yeah, but also why would she do that?

855
00:35:50,824 --> 00:35:52,824
Speaker 1: I don't know, Like maybe she just I mean, it's

856
00:35:52,824 --> 00:35:53,304
Speaker 1: hard to think.

857
00:35:53,224 --> 00:35:55,344
Speaker 3: That she thought she had friends that she could trust.

858
00:35:55,384 --> 00:35:57,064
Speaker 1: I think she was thinking like that, you know, she's

859
00:35:57,104 --> 00:35:59,064
Speaker 1: an American now, she's an American actress, Like these are

860
00:35:59,064 --> 00:36:01,504
Speaker 1: her people. The cut is like, I mean, they do

861
00:36:01,584 --> 00:36:03,184
Speaker 1: write some nasty stuff. I was like, I don't know

862
00:36:03,224 --> 00:36:04,944
Speaker 1: if that was the publication you should have done that with.

863
00:36:05,024 --> 00:36:06,584
Speaker 1: But at the same time, maybe she was like, this

864
00:36:06,624 --> 00:36:08,344
Speaker 1: woman's been to my house all day, Like I've told

865
00:36:08,384 --> 00:36:10,984
Speaker 1: her all my stories and secrets, like we're bondie. I'm

866
00:36:11,024 --> 00:36:13,144
Speaker 1: helping her like write the piece that she should write.

867
00:36:13,184 --> 00:36:15,664
Speaker 2: Well, so where's a pr in the spirit, Like if

868
00:36:15,664 --> 00:36:16,824
Speaker 2: anyone needs to be talked to.

869
00:36:16,904 --> 00:36:18,864
Speaker 3: It's Megan's pr during the entire time.

870
00:36:19,184 --> 00:36:21,264
Speaker 1: Well, and that's why I think now that she's wanting

871
00:36:21,304 --> 00:36:24,264
Speaker 1: to do something like making this Netflix documentary that she

872
00:36:24,544 --> 00:36:26,424
Speaker 1: is so in control of. You know, yes she has

873
00:36:26,424 --> 00:36:28,544
Speaker 1: produces and yes she answers to Netflix.

874
00:36:28,344 --> 00:36:30,824
Speaker 3: And yes it's not filling their house, yes.

875
00:36:31,064 --> 00:36:33,704
Speaker 1: But it's with her celebrity friends that she has a relationship.

876
00:36:33,864 --> 00:36:36,744
Speaker 1: She seems like she's enjoying herself. It's low steaks, that's cooking,

877
00:36:36,824 --> 00:36:38,904
Speaker 1: it's homemaking, it's all that sort of like it's that

878
00:36:38,984 --> 00:36:41,664
Speaker 1: fun stuff. And I think also she has a real

879
00:36:41,704 --> 00:36:45,224
Speaker 1: sense of control because she knows exactly the footage that's

880
00:36:45,224 --> 00:36:47,704
Speaker 1: going to put out, the style. She can't control people

881
00:36:47,704 --> 00:36:49,824
Speaker 1: write about it, but she can control the product. So

882
00:36:49,904 --> 00:36:52,264
Speaker 1: I just think now she's been burnt a few different

883
00:36:52,264 --> 00:36:54,864
Speaker 1: times by publications that you think could be the ones

884
00:36:54,904 --> 00:36:57,224
Speaker 1: to kind of build her up, and she's retreated a bit.

885
00:36:57,464 --> 00:36:59,944
Speaker 3: Yeah, is it time to let Megan Markle live? I

886
00:36:59,984 --> 00:37:00,304
Speaker 3: think so.

887
00:37:00,984 --> 00:37:03,184
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for listening to the Spill today.

888
00:37:03,264 --> 00:37:05,944
Speaker 2: The Spill is produced by Kimberly Bradish with sound production

889
00:37:06,024 --> 00:37:06,904
Speaker 2: by Scots Stronik.

890
00:37:07,024 --> 00:37:08,864
Speaker 3: And we'll be back here in your podcast feed at

891
00:37:08,904 --> 00:37:10,784
Speaker 3: three pm tomorrow, Bye five

892
00:37:14,944 --> 00:37:15,904
Speaker 1: C U lell Un