1 00:00:11,502 --> 00:00:14,262 Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mea podcast. 2 00:00:14,982 --> 00:00:18,502 Speaker 2: Mama Mea acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters. 3 00:00:18,662 --> 00:00:23,022 Speaker 2: This podcast was recorded on It's November twenty ten and 4 00:00:23,142 --> 00:00:26,742 Speaker 2: Christopher Rowe and his girlfriend Coralianne are on holidays in Queensland, 5 00:00:26,942 --> 00:00:29,782 Speaker 2: enjoying the spring sun and some downtime ahead of the 6 00:00:29,822 --> 00:00:33,902 Speaker 2: busy Christmas period. He reads something online from his hometown 7 00:00:33,942 --> 00:00:37,982 Speaker 2: of Capunda, South Australia. Three people have been found dead. 8 00:00:39,022 --> 00:00:41,622 Speaker 2: He notices a photo attached to the article is of 9 00:00:41,822 --> 00:00:46,222 Speaker 2: his street, so he jumps on Facebook. My family live 10 00:00:46,262 --> 00:00:49,582 Speaker 2: on that street, he writes, can somebody check on my parents? 11 00:00:50,662 --> 00:00:56,502 Speaker 2: Pretty quickly he gets a reply, all's good, someone writes, Relieved. 12 00:00:56,662 --> 00:00:59,702 Speaker 2: Chris gets back to his holiday, but it doesn't take 13 00:00:59,782 --> 00:01:03,462 Speaker 2: long for the truth to come out for that well 14 00:01:03,502 --> 00:01:09,142 Speaker 2: meaning and misinformed locals comment to be proven wrong. As 15 00:01:09,222 --> 00:01:12,262 Speaker 2: Chris answers a phone call from a detective, he can 16 00:01:12,342 --> 00:01:17,622 Speaker 2: hardly believe what he is hearing. His mum, Rose, dad Andrew, 17 00:01:18,182 --> 00:01:21,982 Speaker 2: and little sister Chantelle have all been stabbed to death 18 00:01:22,142 --> 00:01:24,422 Speaker 2: in his family home. Now, an eighteen year old man 19 00:01:24,462 --> 00:01:26,822 Speaker 2: will face court today over the murder of a family 20 00:01:26,862 --> 00:01:29,862 Speaker 2: in the South Australian town of Capunda. Andrew and Rose 21 00:01:29,982 --> 00:01:32,422 Speaker 2: Rowe and their sixteen year old daughter, Chantelle were found 22 00:01:32,502 --> 00:01:34,662 Speaker 2: stabbed to death in their home last week. A large 23 00:01:34,662 --> 00:01:37,502 Speaker 2: crowd of locals gathered outside the police stations who hear 24 00:01:37,542 --> 00:01:41,102 Speaker 2: from detectives. The crime will be described in the media 25 00:01:41,182 --> 00:01:47,662 Speaker 2: as a blood bath, disturbing confronting all three victims stabbed 26 00:01:47,822 --> 00:01:53,182 Speaker 2: multiple times. The brutality of the crime shocks the local community, 27 00:01:53,422 --> 00:01:57,502 Speaker 2: which is thrown into the global media headlines. To this day, 28 00:01:58,022 --> 00:02:01,222 Speaker 2: it's described as one of the state's most savage crimes 29 00:02:01,782 --> 00:02:04,862 Speaker 2: and resulted in one of the harshest penalties handed down 30 00:02:05,382 --> 00:02:16,462 Speaker 2: in South Australian history. Kapunda is a rural Australian town 31 00:02:16,902 --> 00:02:19,062 Speaker 2: which at the time of the murders had a population 32 00:02:19,222 --> 00:02:22,382 Speaker 2: of about three thousand. It sits on the edge of 33 00:02:22,462 --> 00:02:25,542 Speaker 2: the Barossa Valley, an hour north of Vdelaide and is 34 00:02:25,542 --> 00:02:29,142 Speaker 2: what you might call a low level tourist destination. It's 35 00:02:29,222 --> 00:02:32,662 Speaker 2: home to Australia's first commercial metal mine, which you can 36 00:02:32,702 --> 00:02:37,222 Speaker 2: now tour. It's a stereotypical Ossie town in that everyone 37 00:02:37,422 --> 00:02:40,142 Speaker 2: knows everyone and many of the locals live there their 38 00:02:40,302 --> 00:02:44,022 Speaker 2: entire lives. At the time of this crime in twenty ten. 39 00:02:44,222 --> 00:02:48,142 Speaker 2: There were only two police officers stationed there permanently. The 40 00:02:48,222 --> 00:02:50,982 Speaker 2: last thing they expected to find inside the Harriet Street 41 00:02:51,022 --> 00:02:54,102 Speaker 2: home in the early hours of November eighth was this. 42 00:02:55,422 --> 00:02:59,382 Speaker 2: The victims had more than one hundred wounds between them. 43 00:02:59,662 --> 00:03:03,542 Speaker 2: The man responsible was someone no one would have expected 44 00:03:03,622 --> 00:03:07,702 Speaker 2: capable of such a horrific triple murder. Brian Littley is 45 00:03:07,742 --> 00:03:11,662 Speaker 2: a journalist who covered this case extensive for the Advertiser. 46 00:03:12,142 --> 00:03:15,542 Speaker 2: He knew Kapunda well and captain touch with the sole survivor, 47 00:03:15,622 --> 00:03:22,862 Speaker 2: Chris for many years after the crime. Brian joins us. Now, Brian, 48 00:03:23,382 --> 00:03:26,542 Speaker 2: tell me about the Roe family. Who were they and 49 00:03:26,582 --> 00:03:29,342 Speaker 2: what did their life in Kapunda, South Australia look like? 50 00:03:30,662 --> 00:03:34,622 Speaker 1: I think the Roe family there was Andrew the father, 51 00:03:35,102 --> 00:03:39,502 Speaker 1: and rose Mary or Rose that she went by, typical 52 00:03:40,222 --> 00:03:45,822 Speaker 1: country family, two children, Christopher who had moved out of 53 00:03:45,862 --> 00:03:48,382 Speaker 1: home and was living with his girlfriend but nearby and 54 00:03:48,542 --> 00:03:51,262 Speaker 1: that'd have their weekend catch ups. And then of course 55 00:03:51,662 --> 00:03:55,702 Speaker 1: Chantell sixteen year old in the midst of us schooling 56 00:03:55,782 --> 00:04:00,022 Speaker 1: but also looking to branch out and do some work, 57 00:04:00,102 --> 00:04:03,182 Speaker 1: casual work around in the community or in the towns, 58 00:04:03,422 --> 00:04:06,702 Speaker 1: getting those cafe jobs or little jobs to earn some 59 00:04:06,742 --> 00:04:10,182 Speaker 1: pocket money and getting around seeing her high school friends. 60 00:04:10,822 --> 00:04:14,662 Speaker 1: They were your typical country family, had been living in 61 00:04:14,742 --> 00:04:19,902 Speaker 1: Capunda for some time. Not born and bred through Capunda, 62 00:04:19,942 --> 00:04:23,542 Speaker 1: but had set up and were established in the town 63 00:04:23,902 --> 00:04:27,902 Speaker 1: and known around the town as good, friendly, kind people 64 00:04:28,502 --> 00:04:30,262 Speaker 1: and nice members of the community. 65 00:04:30,742 --> 00:04:34,662 Speaker 2: Do we know anything about the weekend before the murders 66 00:04:34,742 --> 00:04:36,862 Speaker 2: what the family was up to. I know Chris was 67 00:04:36,902 --> 00:04:37,862 Speaker 2: out of town, wasn't he. 68 00:04:38,502 --> 00:04:42,182 Speaker 1: Yes, well, Chris was with his girlfriend Cora Lee on 69 00:04:42,222 --> 00:04:44,342 Speaker 1: the Gold Coast, had gone there for a holiday and 70 00:04:45,262 --> 00:04:47,942 Speaker 1: I think he'd been there for close to a week 71 00:04:48,422 --> 00:04:52,222 Speaker 1: away Andrew and Rose. There's not much known about what 72 00:04:52,382 --> 00:04:54,502 Speaker 1: they had been up to across that week. And we 73 00:04:54,622 --> 00:04:58,862 Speaker 1: know that the week before Bill O'Brien, who was at 74 00:04:58,862 --> 00:05:01,662 Speaker 1: that stage running to be mayor and went on to 75 00:05:01,702 --> 00:05:05,102 Speaker 1: become the mayor and has been a long standing mayor, 76 00:05:05,222 --> 00:05:09,462 Speaker 1: is still mayor or closely associated with the local government 77 00:05:09,622 --> 00:05:12,302 Speaker 1: council there at the moment. Bill's a lovely bloke ran 78 00:05:12,382 --> 00:05:15,382 Speaker 1: the supermarket, but he'd said that he'd run into Rose 79 00:05:15,422 --> 00:05:17,822 Speaker 1: the week before and had a chat with her in 80 00:05:17,862 --> 00:05:21,142 Speaker 1: his supermarket in the main street of Kapunda. So they 81 00:05:21,182 --> 00:05:26,342 Speaker 1: were moving around doing their normal thing, but not standing out. Chantell, 82 00:05:26,502 --> 00:05:29,942 Speaker 1: we know that she had been across that weekend in 83 00:05:29,982 --> 00:05:32,262 Speaker 1: a few little places or speaking to a few people. 84 00:05:32,622 --> 00:05:35,662 Speaker 1: A party at the neighboring town of Freeling. We think 85 00:05:36,182 --> 00:05:39,982 Speaker 1: there's also other parties in Kapunda and bits and pieces. 86 00:05:40,022 --> 00:05:42,542 Speaker 1: So moving around with friends groups and catching up with 87 00:05:42,582 --> 00:05:45,982 Speaker 1: friends groups is how it played out, what we learned 88 00:05:46,022 --> 00:05:49,742 Speaker 1: about Chantelle's movements, and that's critical going on later on. 89 00:05:50,382 --> 00:05:54,902 Speaker 2: The bodies of Rose, Andrew, and Chantell, who was only sixteen, 90 00:05:55,542 --> 00:05:59,902 Speaker 2: were found on a Monday in November twenty ten. Do 91 00:05:59,982 --> 00:06:02,582 Speaker 2: we know if anyone raised the alarm or how that 92 00:06:02,702 --> 00:06:03,982 Speaker 2: crime scene was discovered? 93 00:06:04,622 --> 00:06:10,582 Speaker 1: From what we understand it was actually Christopher's boss had 94 00:06:10,622 --> 00:06:13,342 Speaker 1: gone to check. I'm not sure about the details of 95 00:06:13,422 --> 00:06:15,302 Speaker 1: him and why he would have gone to check, but 96 00:06:15,862 --> 00:06:18,862 Speaker 1: he'd gone to call in on the family home somewhere 97 00:06:18,902 --> 00:06:23,182 Speaker 1: around eleven o'clock on Monday the eighth November, maybe to 98 00:06:23,262 --> 00:06:26,822 Speaker 1: drop something in, just to say get a something like that, 99 00:06:26,902 --> 00:06:31,862 Speaker 1: and he discovered the bodies of Andrew and or discovered 100 00:06:31,862 --> 00:06:35,862 Speaker 1: the scene I should say, with Andrew, Rose and Chantel, 101 00:06:36,302 --> 00:06:40,542 Speaker 1: as we know now brutally brutally murdered and stabbed. It's 102 00:06:40,582 --> 00:06:45,702 Speaker 1: a seasoned police call it now the most horrific scene 103 00:06:45,742 --> 00:06:46,622 Speaker 1: that they've ever seen. 104 00:06:47,622 --> 00:06:50,742 Speaker 2: I don't want you to go, you know, into too 105 00:06:50,782 --> 00:06:52,862 Speaker 2: much detail that you're uncomfortable with, but to help us 106 00:06:52,862 --> 00:06:56,742 Speaker 2: set the scene. What happened to that family in that house? 107 00:06:59,422 --> 00:07:03,222 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you know. I've had this explained to 108 00:07:03,262 --> 00:07:05,942 Speaker 1: me by some police who were in there, who were 109 00:07:06,502 --> 00:07:10,102 Speaker 1: first on the scene, and as I said, they talk 110 00:07:10,142 --> 00:07:13,342 Speaker 1: about up being the most brutal and horrific scene that 111 00:07:13,382 --> 00:07:17,382 Speaker 1: they'd ever ever seen. We know that he came out 112 00:07:17,382 --> 00:07:20,622 Speaker 1: and caught at the details about that scene read out 113 00:07:20,662 --> 00:07:24,342 Speaker 1: by Judge Sulan when they were finally prosecuting and sentencing 114 00:07:25,262 --> 00:07:32,702 Speaker 1: the killer, Jason Downey, that Chantel had been stabbed thirty 115 00:07:32,702 --> 00:07:36,462 Speaker 1: three times and raped to the point where she'd been 116 00:07:36,622 --> 00:07:40,102 Speaker 1: stabbed and wasn't killed, and then raped and then stabbed again. 117 00:07:41,222 --> 00:07:45,462 Speaker 1: Andrew was stabbed twenty four times in the back, and 118 00:07:46,422 --> 00:07:50,262 Speaker 1: from what police have described to me or some people 119 00:07:50,862 --> 00:07:55,622 Speaker 1: I've heard through those channels in those investigations, Andrew didn't 120 00:07:55,662 --> 00:07:57,502 Speaker 1: have a chance of even getting out of the bed 121 00:07:57,862 --> 00:08:02,182 Speaker 1: and was rendered incapable of being able to defend his family. 122 00:08:02,222 --> 00:08:06,382 Speaker 1: I guess for me, I think as horrific as both 123 00:08:06,422 --> 00:08:09,102 Speaker 1: of those ends are, I think it's a description of 124 00:08:09,142 --> 00:08:12,942 Speaker 1: what happened to Rose, who was stabbed more than fifty times, 125 00:08:13,502 --> 00:08:18,822 Speaker 1: which which really impacts me and would impact anyone. She 126 00:08:19,062 --> 00:08:23,382 Speaker 1: was said to be crawling on the ground trying to 127 00:08:23,622 --> 00:08:27,622 Speaker 1: escape the madness that was happening in and around her 128 00:08:28,262 --> 00:08:30,662 Speaker 1: when she was stabbed again and again. You know, the 129 00:08:30,862 --> 00:08:35,382 Speaker 1: efforts by the killer to clean up the mess, and 130 00:08:35,382 --> 00:08:38,862 Speaker 1: then only to go back and stab people again, for 131 00:08:39,142 --> 00:08:43,422 Speaker 1: blood to fall over that mess again again. So it's 132 00:08:44,742 --> 00:08:48,582 Speaker 1: it was a frenzied, crazy attack, which is just mind 133 00:08:49,022 --> 00:08:53,982 Speaker 1: boggling to think that someone could even continue to be 134 00:08:54,102 --> 00:08:57,462 Speaker 1: in such a rage or such a out of control state. 135 00:08:57,942 --> 00:09:02,182 Speaker 2: Well that's more than one hundred stab wounds alone, and 136 00:09:02,382 --> 00:09:05,942 Speaker 2: you know, any murder is horrific. But you know that 137 00:09:06,262 --> 00:09:09,262 Speaker 2: visceral language that you describe the police officers using, you 138 00:09:09,502 --> 00:09:13,382 Speaker 2: disturbing confront a blood bath, a massacre like it's It 139 00:09:13,422 --> 00:09:16,142 Speaker 2: doesn't get more brutal and horrible than this. 140 00:09:17,942 --> 00:09:20,262 Speaker 1: No, it doesn't. And I've got to say that you 141 00:09:20,302 --> 00:09:24,022 Speaker 1: know those details it took, they went put up early 142 00:09:24,262 --> 00:09:27,462 Speaker 1: on in the piece. It's only over time that those 143 00:09:28,542 --> 00:09:32,302 Speaker 1: details really started to come out, I guess after the 144 00:09:32,582 --> 00:09:34,942 Speaker 1: after the court case as well, and they started to 145 00:09:35,382 --> 00:09:39,462 Speaker 1: flow out, and we heard more murmurs of what police 146 00:09:39,502 --> 00:09:42,262 Speaker 1: had been confronted with when they were the first into 147 00:09:42,302 --> 00:09:45,622 Speaker 1: the scene. And I've got to assume that, you know, 148 00:09:46,262 --> 00:09:49,422 Speaker 1: those police officers, hardened police officers who've seen a lot, 149 00:09:49,502 --> 00:09:53,822 Speaker 1: you know, were and still are probably struggle to cope 150 00:09:53,902 --> 00:09:57,262 Speaker 1: with what they saw in that house, so very disturbing. 151 00:09:58,142 --> 00:10:02,622 Speaker 2: I've read reports that a neighbor actually heard some screaming 152 00:10:02,702 --> 00:10:06,742 Speaker 2: that night but didn't end up reporting it. Were there 153 00:10:06,782 --> 00:10:08,862 Speaker 2: many other kind of witness reports that came out. 154 00:10:09,582 --> 00:10:12,582 Speaker 1: Yeah, that was one the things that had very early 155 00:10:12,622 --> 00:10:16,382 Speaker 1: in the police investigation that at about one am in 156 00:10:16,422 --> 00:10:20,862 Speaker 1: the morning, a neighbor had heard I think Andrew's loudly 157 00:10:22,062 --> 00:10:25,662 Speaker 1: loud voice, some screams from one of the ladies, one 158 00:10:25,702 --> 00:10:29,102 Speaker 1: of the girls, And that is in the police sort 159 00:10:29,142 --> 00:10:32,782 Speaker 1: of investigation from the very outset that that was something 160 00:10:32,822 --> 00:10:37,182 Speaker 1: that had triggered. Other than that, there was very little 161 00:10:37,862 --> 00:10:42,862 Speaker 1: from that night that would alert anyone to a crime 162 00:10:42,942 --> 00:10:47,222 Speaker 1: being a crime happening in that town. I think the 163 00:10:47,262 --> 00:10:50,142 Speaker 1: person they have thought it was a domestic dispute and 164 00:10:50,182 --> 00:10:55,662 Speaker 1: nothing more. But it wasn't an ongoing, ongoing cries for 165 00:10:55,742 --> 00:11:00,382 Speaker 1: help or scenes. It was you could just imagine a 166 00:11:00,462 --> 00:11:04,142 Speaker 1: father rendered incapable of protecting his family, whether he was 167 00:11:04,862 --> 00:11:09,862 Speaker 1: already dead, a terrified young teenage girl she was hiding 168 00:11:09,902 --> 00:11:12,822 Speaker 1: under the bed. He pulled her out from underneath the 169 00:11:12,862 --> 00:11:17,022 Speaker 1: bed and stabbed her again. And a mum who was 170 00:11:17,382 --> 00:11:22,222 Speaker 1: unable to escape this madman. What was going on inside 171 00:11:22,262 --> 00:11:27,022 Speaker 1: that house, whether they couldn't scream in fear and shock, 172 00:11:27,702 --> 00:11:29,502 Speaker 1: incapable of doing that at that time. 173 00:11:30,342 --> 00:11:34,182 Speaker 2: My mind immediately goes to Chris, who wasn't there, and 174 00:11:34,222 --> 00:11:38,142 Speaker 2: he was on holiday with his girlfriend. I'm assuming he 175 00:11:38,182 --> 00:11:41,382 Speaker 2: got a call. Do we know how he found out 176 00:11:41,462 --> 00:11:43,382 Speaker 2: how quickly he was able to make it back. 177 00:11:44,822 --> 00:11:48,142 Speaker 1: Yeah, we know that he did get a call. Well, 178 00:11:48,142 --> 00:11:50,702 Speaker 1: obviously got a call and was alerted to it, and 179 00:11:51,102 --> 00:11:53,102 Speaker 1: I believe he was able to get back by that 180 00:11:53,142 --> 00:11:57,582 Speaker 1: Monday afternoon or evening. He was raced back there, raced 181 00:11:57,582 --> 00:12:00,262 Speaker 1: back to what his whole family had been murdered. And 182 00:12:01,302 --> 00:12:04,422 Speaker 1: you know, I spent a bit of time with Chris 183 00:12:05,302 --> 00:12:09,782 Speaker 1: as in the years after. It was three years after 184 00:12:09,862 --> 00:12:13,102 Speaker 1: that I I spent time with Chris and Coraly, and 185 00:12:13,302 --> 00:12:15,702 Speaker 1: it was the last real touch point I had on 186 00:12:15,742 --> 00:12:20,182 Speaker 1: this story was to do an interview with the pair 187 00:12:20,302 --> 00:12:23,182 Speaker 1: as they awaited the birth of their child, and it 188 00:12:23,342 --> 00:12:26,622 Speaker 1: was lovely to be sitting there and doing that. I'd 189 00:12:26,622 --> 00:12:30,462 Speaker 1: had a little bit of contact with Chris throughout that time, 190 00:12:30,542 --> 00:12:36,062 Speaker 1: but obviously family and friends, community police, all of those 191 00:12:36,062 --> 00:12:38,902 Speaker 1: people you'd expect were very protective of him, and I'd 192 00:12:38,982 --> 00:12:42,182 Speaker 1: like to think that I respected that, and our coverage 193 00:12:42,262 --> 00:12:44,742 Speaker 1: respected that as well. We did a lot of our 194 00:12:45,342 --> 00:12:50,782 Speaker 1: liaison with the family through Chris's cousin, Kylie Duffield, and 195 00:12:51,702 --> 00:12:56,222 Speaker 1: she became a real powerful and strong and fantastic spokesperson 196 00:12:56,222 --> 00:13:00,982 Speaker 1: for the family. The torment that Chris went through, you know, 197 00:13:02,062 --> 00:13:05,942 Speaker 1: even even to the point of well, he had a 198 00:13:05,942 --> 00:13:10,502 Speaker 1: absolute alibi and the Gold Coast had he organized the 199 00:13:10,582 --> 00:13:14,822 Speaker 1: killing of his family and what or had he led? 200 00:13:15,902 --> 00:13:18,582 Speaker 1: Was he up to something that led them to be attacked, 201 00:13:19,022 --> 00:13:22,822 Speaker 1: It would have been so tormenting. And you know, he 202 00:13:22,862 --> 00:13:26,222 Speaker 1: was a really strong and powerful young man at the 203 00:13:26,262 --> 00:13:28,822 Speaker 1: time to be able to even cope with that and 204 00:13:28,822 --> 00:13:33,142 Speaker 1: get through Yeah. Yeah, he raced back and I know 205 00:13:33,222 --> 00:13:36,382 Speaker 1: that he was a pillar of strength for the people 206 00:13:36,422 --> 00:13:38,262 Speaker 1: around him, and he had a lot of people around 207 00:13:38,302 --> 00:13:41,062 Speaker 1: him to support him as well, though he was pretty 208 00:13:41,142 --> 00:13:43,542 Speaker 1: stood fairly strong in the circumstances. 209 00:13:44,142 --> 00:13:48,782 Speaker 2: Was Coapunda you know regularly in the news. You know, 210 00:13:49,262 --> 00:13:50,662 Speaker 2: as far as I can see, a bit more of 211 00:13:50,662 --> 00:13:53,382 Speaker 2: a sleepy rural town, a little bit of a tourist location. 212 00:13:53,622 --> 00:13:55,782 Speaker 2: But this would have kind of really put it on 213 00:13:55,822 --> 00:13:56,222 Speaker 2: the map. 214 00:13:57,102 --> 00:14:00,662 Speaker 1: Yeah, like for the wrong reasons. Yeah. No, Copanda is 215 00:14:00,702 --> 00:14:05,542 Speaker 1: a fabulous place. It's a lovely sleepy country hamlet. Really. 216 00:14:06,662 --> 00:14:10,422 Speaker 1: It has a really rich history and probably quite a 217 00:14:11,982 --> 00:14:15,942 Speaker 1: I imagine it's had a fair share of trouble and strife, 218 00:14:15,982 --> 00:14:19,062 Speaker 1: but nothing like this. So you know, it's part of 219 00:14:19,102 --> 00:14:23,102 Speaker 1: the Copper Triangle with the Cornish miners and so had 220 00:14:23,102 --> 00:14:25,902 Speaker 1: the copper mine there, and at one stage I think 221 00:14:26,062 --> 00:14:29,622 Speaker 1: had the number of pubs in Capunda. There was somewhere 222 00:14:29,662 --> 00:14:32,982 Speaker 1: around thirty pubs in Kapunda, and even at this stage 223 00:14:32,982 --> 00:14:35,342 Speaker 1: in twenty ten, there's still a lot of little pubs 224 00:14:35,382 --> 00:14:38,542 Speaker 1: in there. So you can imagine the rough and tumble. 225 00:14:38,582 --> 00:14:40,902 Speaker 1: It is a rough and tumble town. It's got a 226 00:14:41,022 --> 00:14:45,102 Speaker 1: rich Catholic history. It's also got a number of tunnels 227 00:14:45,102 --> 00:14:49,182 Speaker 1: that run below the town, very intriguing township, but nothing 228 00:14:49,262 --> 00:14:49,502 Speaker 1: like this. 229 00:14:50,062 --> 00:14:52,862 Speaker 2: You said you were tasked with, you know, chatting to 230 00:14:52,902 --> 00:14:57,182 Speaker 2: the locals as part of your team's investigation. What was 231 00:14:57,822 --> 00:15:00,782 Speaker 2: their reaction like to something like this happening in the town. 232 00:15:01,022 --> 00:15:03,062 Speaker 2: At the start, as you mentioned, we didn't know the details, 233 00:15:03,102 --> 00:15:06,062 Speaker 2: but they did know that three members of a family 234 00:15:06,142 --> 00:15:08,742 Speaker 2: had been killed in the one house. 235 00:15:09,102 --> 00:15:13,462 Speaker 1: I had a shock at that devastation that a family 236 00:15:13,582 --> 00:15:19,062 Speaker 1: from their community had been so horrifically murdered. And as 237 00:15:19,102 --> 00:15:24,582 Speaker 1: it filtered out, of course there's that immediate grief and outrage. 238 00:15:25,062 --> 00:15:29,782 Speaker 1: Then the fear really set in because and it was 239 00:15:29,822 --> 00:15:32,982 Speaker 1: within a few days I think that the township of 240 00:15:33,062 --> 00:15:36,542 Speaker 1: Capanda started to sort of work out that hey, this 241 00:15:37,422 --> 00:15:39,742 Speaker 1: isn't likely to be well, they thought it was someone 242 00:15:40,382 --> 00:15:42,462 Speaker 1: from outside of town. It'd have to be, wouldn't it, 243 00:15:42,462 --> 00:15:44,422 Speaker 1: because no one in their town, that the people that 244 00:15:44,462 --> 00:15:46,582 Speaker 1: they lived with, their neighbors, isn't going to do anything 245 00:15:46,662 --> 00:15:51,742 Speaker 1: like this. But within a few days, the efforts of 246 00:15:51,742 --> 00:15:54,382 Speaker 1: the police were starting to see it that way that 247 00:15:54,462 --> 00:15:58,822 Speaker 1: we think this could be one of your own, and 248 00:15:58,942 --> 00:16:02,622 Speaker 1: that level of fear really rose, so they were quite scared. 249 00:16:02,902 --> 00:16:07,982 Speaker 1: They I think walking around the town people did try 250 00:16:08,022 --> 00:16:11,302 Speaker 1: to go about their lives as usual and try to 251 00:16:11,382 --> 00:16:14,382 Speaker 1: keep that face of you know, we're still we're getting 252 00:16:14,422 --> 00:16:18,142 Speaker 1: along with things. We're supportive of every effort that the 253 00:16:18,182 --> 00:16:20,942 Speaker 1: police make. But then you've got media from everywhere. All 254 00:16:20,982 --> 00:16:23,462 Speaker 1: the eyes are on it. So everyone was on tenterhooks 255 00:16:24,022 --> 00:16:30,262 Speaker 1: and they were scared. So even I found myself knowing 256 00:16:30,302 --> 00:16:33,502 Speaker 1: a lot of people there, they were reserved in what 257 00:16:33,542 --> 00:16:37,342 Speaker 1: they might come forward with and a bit frightened about 258 00:16:37,382 --> 00:16:39,462 Speaker 1: talking with you, And so it made it pretty hard. 259 00:16:40,062 --> 00:16:44,382 Speaker 2: Were the police sharing any clues in those early days 260 00:16:44,742 --> 00:16:47,302 Speaker 2: or were they kind of keeping things pretty under wraps. 261 00:16:47,342 --> 00:16:50,102 Speaker 2: I know that there was a really widespread search, you know, 262 00:16:50,502 --> 00:16:53,822 Speaker 2: underwater land everything. 263 00:16:54,302 --> 00:16:56,862 Speaker 1: I know that over time I've been critical of police, 264 00:16:56,862 --> 00:16:59,062 Speaker 1: and at the time I was critical of police because 265 00:16:59,742 --> 00:17:02,422 Speaker 1: not about keeping things under wraps. I understand that that's 266 00:17:02,502 --> 00:17:04,822 Speaker 1: the way that things need to be. And something that 267 00:17:04,902 --> 00:17:08,542 Speaker 1: was quite of interest to me was the head of 268 00:17:08,582 --> 00:17:11,502 Speaker 1: Major Crime and Grant Moyle. He'd been in the job 269 00:17:11,542 --> 00:17:16,342 Speaker 1: for two days before this murder happened. And you know, 270 00:17:17,382 --> 00:17:20,942 Speaker 1: I'd no Grant Moyle from He's a few years older 271 00:17:20,942 --> 00:17:22,702 Speaker 1: than me, but he grew up in the same township 272 00:17:22,742 --> 00:17:25,582 Speaker 1: as me and my mum used to babysitting. There was 273 00:17:25,622 --> 00:17:30,342 Speaker 1: this journo cop battle like, you're the investigative editor, Brian, 274 00:17:30,422 --> 00:17:34,182 Speaker 1: but I'm the investigator, say, there's always been that with police. 275 00:17:34,862 --> 00:17:40,982 Speaker 1: I think that police did a good job from the 276 00:17:41,022 --> 00:17:47,022 Speaker 1: outset in putting together a plan to try to that 277 00:17:47,102 --> 00:17:52,942 Speaker 1: would likely capture the suspect or the lightly suspect. It's 278 00:17:52,982 --> 00:17:56,182 Speaker 1: just that this crime was different. So I think what 279 00:17:56,262 --> 00:18:00,182 Speaker 1: they would normally go into trying to capture a person 280 00:18:00,182 --> 00:18:02,302 Speaker 1: that they looked in the wrong spots to start with early, 281 00:18:02,742 --> 00:18:05,622 Speaker 1: but arether the wrong spots probably not, That's how you'd 282 00:18:05,622 --> 00:18:08,222 Speaker 1: approach it. I don't think anyone believed that it was 283 00:18:08,262 --> 00:18:12,222 Speaker 1: someone from Capunda that would have that, so certainly not 284 00:18:12,262 --> 00:18:14,982 Speaker 1: the person it turned out to be. But police went 285 00:18:15,102 --> 00:18:18,902 Speaker 1: doing the things that you might expect him to do 286 00:18:19,262 --> 00:18:23,342 Speaker 1: from the start. So there was a security guard security 287 00:18:23,382 --> 00:18:27,062 Speaker 1: patrol who patrolled Kapunda and would have been the most 288 00:18:27,262 --> 00:18:30,422 Speaker 1: likely person to go to to ask for had you 289 00:18:30,502 --> 00:18:33,662 Speaker 1: seen anything. He'd been out that Sunday night. In fact, 290 00:18:33,742 --> 00:18:37,182 Speaker 1: he responded to an alarm at the Compunda Primary School 291 00:18:37,582 --> 00:18:40,342 Speaker 1: at around ten o'clock on the Sunday night. It turns 292 00:18:40,342 --> 00:18:43,782 Speaker 1: out that that primary school's a couple of blocks shy 293 00:18:43,822 --> 00:18:47,062 Speaker 1: of where Jason Downey lived at the time. The police 294 00:18:47,102 --> 00:18:51,142 Speaker 1: hadn't even been to the local security patrol guy to 295 00:18:51,222 --> 00:18:55,462 Speaker 1: say did you see anything the one person who had 296 00:18:55,462 --> 00:18:58,382 Speaker 1: reason to be driving around Kapunda late at night on 297 00:18:58,422 --> 00:19:02,422 Speaker 1: a Sunday night. They didn't particularly go to the people 298 00:19:02,462 --> 00:19:07,302 Speaker 1: that Chantelle had had contact with over that weekend. So 299 00:19:07,582 --> 00:19:10,902 Speaker 1: Chantelle was the only person that you could closely track 300 00:19:10,982 --> 00:19:13,742 Speaker 1: where she went from place to place and what she 301 00:19:13,822 --> 00:19:18,342 Speaker 1: was doing. So I made a discovery some three or 302 00:19:18,342 --> 00:19:22,222 Speaker 1: four days into that investigation that they hadn't spoken to 303 00:19:23,062 --> 00:19:27,702 Speaker 1: Chantelle's boss, who she'd messaged not more than two hours 304 00:19:27,702 --> 00:19:30,222 Speaker 1: before she was murdered to say that she wouldn't be 305 00:19:30,262 --> 00:19:32,822 Speaker 1: at work the next day. Was in a neighboring town 306 00:19:33,382 --> 00:19:38,302 Speaker 1: in Urutpa place that I know, Cafe Divine. She'd worked 307 00:19:38,302 --> 00:19:42,342 Speaker 1: there for a week. But even the cafe operator, the boss, 308 00:19:42,702 --> 00:19:45,342 Speaker 1: who had the message on her phone from Chantelle saying 309 00:19:45,582 --> 00:19:47,942 Speaker 1: I'm not going to be in tomorrow. I feel crooked, 310 00:19:48,422 --> 00:19:50,942 Speaker 1: police hadn't spoken to her, and she was flabbergasted at that. 311 00:19:50,982 --> 00:19:53,102 Speaker 1: Why wouldn't they speak to her if you're going to 312 00:19:53,102 --> 00:19:57,982 Speaker 1: try to track these movements. So yeah, police did a 313 00:19:58,022 --> 00:20:01,022 Speaker 1: good job in the circumstances. I think they'd do a 314 00:20:01,062 --> 00:20:04,182 Speaker 1: lot better job knowing that this is the crime that 315 00:20:04,302 --> 00:20:07,062 Speaker 1: happened and what had happened, So the debrief would have 316 00:20:07,102 --> 00:20:08,902 Speaker 1: set some new parameters. I think. 317 00:20:09,262 --> 00:20:11,622 Speaker 2: Well, it did take, you know, eight days or so 318 00:20:12,182 --> 00:20:18,182 Speaker 2: to arrest their suspect. Was Jason Downey's name floating around? 319 00:20:18,822 --> 00:20:21,542 Speaker 2: Do we know now from the start was he an 320 00:20:21,542 --> 00:20:22,822 Speaker 2: early person of interest? 321 00:20:23,702 --> 00:20:26,222 Speaker 1: I was certainly not in the police eye, as you know. 322 00:20:26,502 --> 00:20:29,102 Speaker 1: I think if he was a person of interest, they 323 00:20:29,102 --> 00:20:31,582 Speaker 1: would have had him in there earlier to speak with 324 00:20:31,662 --> 00:20:35,622 Speaker 1: him at least, And the circumstances of him being brought 325 00:20:35,662 --> 00:20:38,782 Speaker 1: in even suggests that, you know, even then they weren't 326 00:20:38,862 --> 00:20:41,422 Speaker 1: too short that he was the right person. They were 327 00:20:41,462 --> 00:20:44,942 Speaker 1: just going on a bit of a hunch. But I guess, 328 00:20:45,262 --> 00:20:49,782 Speaker 1: you know, his actions, certainly to go and put flowers 329 00:20:49,822 --> 00:20:52,542 Speaker 1: at the gravesite and move around and go back to 330 00:20:52,582 --> 00:20:57,542 Speaker 1: work normally and work each day activities that he didn't 331 00:20:58,502 --> 00:21:00,942 Speaker 1: stand him out as a person of interest. No one 332 00:21:00,982 --> 00:21:02,862 Speaker 1: was jumping up and down and saying we think it's him, 333 00:21:02,902 --> 00:21:06,262 Speaker 1: we think it's him. But I think there was one 334 00:21:06,982 --> 00:21:09,902 Speaker 1: event in that week in the eight days that certainly 335 00:21:10,822 --> 00:21:13,862 Speaker 1: some eyes had started to turn towards him as if 336 00:21:13,942 --> 00:21:17,782 Speaker 1: he might be the person that had some involvement in it. 337 00:21:18,102 --> 00:21:20,622 Speaker 1: There was a Christmas party that he went to with 338 00:21:20,702 --> 00:21:25,782 Speaker 1: his workplace and they looked at him. One of the girls, 339 00:21:25,942 --> 00:21:30,022 Speaker 1: their partner of one of his fellow mechanics at this 340 00:21:30,142 --> 00:21:34,102 Speaker 1: Christmas party, took a photograph of him because they thought 341 00:21:34,342 --> 00:21:38,902 Speaker 1: that he was acting oddly and strangely. And she sent 342 00:21:38,902 --> 00:21:42,662 Speaker 1: this photograph to us in the days shortly after Jason 343 00:21:42,662 --> 00:21:45,182 Speaker 1: Downey's arrest, and we obviously we couldn't run it for 344 00:21:45,502 --> 00:21:48,942 Speaker 1: some months until he appeared in court. But you know 345 00:21:49,182 --> 00:21:52,222 Speaker 1: the explanation from the girl who made contact and sent 346 00:21:52,262 --> 00:21:55,382 Speaker 1: that photograph to me, she said, I took it because 347 00:21:55,422 --> 00:21:57,062 Speaker 1: I thought that he'd killed those people. 348 00:21:57,502 --> 00:22:00,702 Speaker 2: That's kind of creepy, isn't it. 349 00:22:00,662 --> 00:22:05,582 Speaker 1: It's really creepy. And the photograph, you know, it didn't 350 00:22:05,622 --> 00:22:10,382 Speaker 1: help Jason Downey's cause to look any anything of innocent. 351 00:22:10,422 --> 00:22:13,022 Speaker 1: It's because it was a days when you didn't have 352 00:22:13,102 --> 00:22:17,142 Speaker 1: the red eye flash reducer. So you know, this photograph 353 00:22:17,142 --> 00:22:19,822 Speaker 1: that's striking. He's got these devil eyes in it as well. 354 00:22:19,942 --> 00:22:24,622 Speaker 1: So when we did run that photograph eventually after he'd 355 00:22:24,942 --> 00:22:28,062 Speaker 1: appeared and the suppressions on his identity were lifted. You know, 356 00:22:28,102 --> 00:22:31,302 Speaker 1: it was a face of unmasking, a face of evil, 357 00:22:32,022 --> 00:22:36,782 Speaker 1: and it certainly the photo did sit there appropriately to 358 00:22:36,942 --> 00:22:38,502 Speaker 1: paint the picture of an evil person. 359 00:22:39,622 --> 00:22:42,662 Speaker 2: You mentioned something briefly that I wanted to bring back 360 00:22:42,742 --> 00:22:45,542 Speaker 2: up the fact that he visited the flowers the shrine 361 00:22:46,102 --> 00:22:48,782 Speaker 2: that was kind of caught on Like you could watch that. 362 00:22:48,902 --> 00:22:52,782 Speaker 2: It's on video, It's on news camera footage, and it's 363 00:22:52,862 --> 00:22:55,342 Speaker 2: kind of it's very eerie to look at in retrospect. 364 00:22:55,342 --> 00:22:58,902 Speaker 2: He visits and stands there for ages and gives a gift. 365 00:23:00,262 --> 00:23:04,582 Speaker 1: Yeah, and wrote something I can't recall exactly what he 366 00:23:04,662 --> 00:23:07,622 Speaker 1: wrote on that note, but yeah, As I said that, 367 00:23:07,782 --> 00:23:10,862 Speaker 1: the media pack was there day and day twenty four 368 00:23:10,862 --> 00:23:15,542 Speaker 1: to seven, pretty much inca punda and going to different locations, 369 00:23:15,582 --> 00:23:17,822 Speaker 1: going to the lake that they had searched, the police 370 00:23:17,822 --> 00:23:21,782 Speaker 1: had searched, and going for press conferences there. So there's 371 00:23:21,862 --> 00:23:25,982 Speaker 1: always cameras on that house and cameras on the locations 372 00:23:26,022 --> 00:23:29,182 Speaker 1: where police were searching, the cameras on people in the 373 00:23:29,182 --> 00:23:32,062 Speaker 1: streets as the police moves through there. So it's not 374 00:23:32,102 --> 00:23:37,302 Speaker 1: surprising that they captured that footage, but obviously that became 375 00:23:37,742 --> 00:23:42,542 Speaker 1: quite a piece of valued footage across newsrooms. And I 376 00:23:42,542 --> 00:23:44,942 Speaker 1: think also for police when they were trying to get 377 00:23:44,942 --> 00:23:47,662 Speaker 1: an understanding of who they were dealing with once they 378 00:23:47,702 --> 00:23:50,462 Speaker 1: had finally caught Jason Downey, what type of person they 379 00:23:50,462 --> 00:23:53,742 Speaker 1: were dealing with, someone who could act so blase, And 380 00:23:54,062 --> 00:23:58,462 Speaker 1: I guess it probably supports the fact that police didn't 381 00:23:58,502 --> 00:24:02,502 Speaker 1: have any leads on It didn't seem outrightly as someone 382 00:24:02,502 --> 00:24:05,062 Speaker 1: that they should be focusing on, because to be able 383 00:24:05,102 --> 00:24:07,742 Speaker 1: to move through the community like that in a time 384 00:24:07,782 --> 00:24:12,902 Speaker 1: of grief and purport to be grieving. And he'd gone 385 00:24:12,942 --> 00:24:16,902 Speaker 1: and visited the boyfriend of Chantelle rote that the person 386 00:24:16,982 --> 00:24:20,862 Speaker 1: that one of only a few friends that Jason Downey had, 387 00:24:21,102 --> 00:24:23,742 Speaker 1: he went and visited him within two days of the 388 00:24:23,822 --> 00:24:28,462 Speaker 1: murder and act as if you know, he grieved with him. 389 00:24:28,822 --> 00:24:33,062 Speaker 1: Was quiet and reserved. Described by Dylan Pratt that boyfriend 390 00:24:33,222 --> 00:24:36,302 Speaker 1: as you know, typical of Jason, a bit quieter than normal. 391 00:24:36,342 --> 00:24:40,582 Speaker 1: But wow, I mean the guy cold hearted. 392 00:24:41,902 --> 00:24:44,702 Speaker 2: M So that's the connection, isn't it. Can you tell 393 00:24:44,782 --> 00:24:47,982 Speaker 2: us a bit about Jason because he is friends with 394 00:24:48,062 --> 00:24:53,742 Speaker 2: Dylan and Chantelle is Dylan's girlfriend. That's the kind of link. 395 00:24:54,862 --> 00:24:59,302 Speaker 1: Yeah. So Jason Downey he didn't have any friends through 396 00:24:59,382 --> 00:25:02,942 Speaker 1: high school, and you know, he was doing this apprenticeship 397 00:25:02,942 --> 00:25:04,902 Speaker 1: and he did one day a week at tafe, so 398 00:25:05,702 --> 00:25:08,702 Speaker 1: I do think he'd sort of finished his schooling before 399 00:25:09,142 --> 00:25:13,902 Speaker 1: matriculation and had gone into this trade. But he, you know, 400 00:25:13,982 --> 00:25:18,542 Speaker 1: he didn't have a great life in Capunda. He'd emigrated 401 00:25:18,542 --> 00:25:22,302 Speaker 1: there in two thousand and six with his mother Lorna, 402 00:25:22,822 --> 00:25:28,422 Speaker 1: from Kilmarnock, and had a brother Jamie, who also lived 403 00:25:28,462 --> 00:25:32,582 Speaker 1: there with a family or close by and worked close 404 00:25:32,622 --> 00:25:35,782 Speaker 1: by down at gawler In I think as a stable 405 00:25:35,822 --> 00:25:39,182 Speaker 1: hand or track work writer, a jockey if you like. 406 00:25:39,902 --> 00:25:43,662 Speaker 1: But he had very few friends. Jason Downey, he wasn't 407 00:25:44,062 --> 00:25:47,422 Speaker 1: one who made friends. He did try to act the 408 00:25:47,902 --> 00:25:53,502 Speaker 1: cool guy from all accounts. He was trying to purport 409 00:25:53,582 --> 00:25:56,502 Speaker 1: himself as the you know, a bit of a basketball 410 00:25:56,542 --> 00:26:01,782 Speaker 1: star and a gun mechanic and popular, but he really 411 00:26:02,142 --> 00:26:07,142 Speaker 1: he'd had an infatuation with his only real his best 412 00:26:07,142 --> 00:26:13,742 Speaker 1: mate's girlfriend, and you know, she Chantelle didn't shut that down, 413 00:26:13,822 --> 00:26:16,862 Speaker 1: particularly because you know she she didn't want to upset 414 00:26:16,862 --> 00:26:20,102 Speaker 1: her boyfriend either, and the boyfriend, you know, I sat 415 00:26:20,142 --> 00:26:26,902 Speaker 1: with Dylan, you know, years after the case was so 416 00:26:27,062 --> 00:26:30,302 Speaker 1: when we're putting together some material and and he was 417 00:26:30,382 --> 00:26:34,022 Speaker 1: talking about Jason Downey actually quite you know, friendly and 418 00:26:34,102 --> 00:26:37,542 Speaker 1: jovial about it, saying that this guy wouldn't hurt a fly, 419 00:26:37,662 --> 00:26:39,662 Speaker 1: and he never had any suspicions about him, and he 420 00:26:39,902 --> 00:26:43,502 Speaker 1: didn't have any concerns about his girlfriend being interested in 421 00:26:43,582 --> 00:26:47,622 Speaker 1: Jason Downey. But in Jason Downey's mind, you know, his girlfriend, 422 00:26:48,142 --> 00:26:52,702 Speaker 1: Chantell Rowe was interested in him, and it was reciprocated. 423 00:26:52,782 --> 00:26:56,702 Speaker 1: And that's that volcano or that firestor and that built 424 00:26:56,822 --> 00:27:00,902 Speaker 1: up and you know, he was he was there to 425 00:27:00,942 --> 00:27:03,502 Speaker 1: take what he thought was his So. 426 00:27:03,542 --> 00:27:05,822 Speaker 2: Really, at the end of the day, this was a 427 00:27:05,942 --> 00:27:10,062 Speaker 2: sexual obsession or an infatuation with Chantelle and. 428 00:27:10,502 --> 00:27:16,222 Speaker 1: Z I for I guess, affection and attention, a cry 429 00:27:16,302 --> 00:27:19,622 Speaker 1: for help. He he a cry for help. I guess 430 00:27:19,622 --> 00:27:22,622 Speaker 1: he was. He felt quite alone. And you know, it 431 00:27:22,782 --> 00:27:27,902 Speaker 1: has been suggested that, you know, Chantell had continued to 432 00:27:28,382 --> 00:27:30,862 Speaker 1: message him and be polite to him and things like that, 433 00:27:30,902 --> 00:27:33,902 Speaker 1: and he took that as she's interested in me and 434 00:27:34,262 --> 00:27:36,262 Speaker 1: built that up in his own mind, I think, and 435 00:27:37,142 --> 00:27:39,702 Speaker 1: we don't really know what happened behind those closed doors 436 00:27:39,742 --> 00:27:43,302 Speaker 1: and what sparked that frenzy. But you know it would 437 00:27:43,342 --> 00:27:50,622 Speaker 1: appear that rejection and being told that this isn't happening, 438 00:27:50,982 --> 00:27:51,622 Speaker 1: He snapped. 439 00:27:54,662 --> 00:27:58,342 Speaker 2: You're listening to true crime Conversations with me, Jemma Bass. 440 00:27:58,742 --> 00:28:02,782 Speaker 2: I'm speaking with journalist Brian Littley about the Kapunda triple murder. 441 00:28:03,622 --> 00:28:06,022 Speaker 2: Up next, Brian tells us about how the arrest of 442 00:28:06,102 --> 00:28:12,542 Speaker 2: Jason Downey unfolded. How did his arrest go down in 443 00:28:12,582 --> 00:28:13,102 Speaker 2: the end. 444 00:28:13,862 --> 00:28:17,662 Speaker 1: So we know that it had been eight days or 445 00:28:17,702 --> 00:28:22,062 Speaker 1: so since that murder three people stabbed more than a 446 00:28:22,142 --> 00:28:25,982 Speaker 1: hundred times violently like one of the most violent murders 447 00:28:26,062 --> 00:28:30,022 Speaker 1: and scenes that police have seen. Jason Downey had throughout 448 00:28:30,062 --> 00:28:34,382 Speaker 1: that time been working at the Tarnanda Mechanics as an apprentice, 449 00:28:34,382 --> 00:28:39,102 Speaker 1: where he was a lowly apprentice. Each day he ride 450 00:28:39,142 --> 00:28:41,982 Speaker 1: shared with someone else, another young person from Kapunda who 451 00:28:42,022 --> 00:28:46,102 Speaker 1: worked at the same mechanics, and they'd ride share and 452 00:28:46,142 --> 00:28:50,062 Speaker 1: go across the thirty odd kilometers from Capunda to Tnanda, 453 00:28:50,142 --> 00:28:54,142 Speaker 1: and Jason had continued to as he normally would catch 454 00:28:54,142 --> 00:28:57,062 Speaker 1: a lift with his work colleague and catch a lift 455 00:28:57,102 --> 00:29:01,702 Speaker 1: back with his work colleague, and police having acted on 456 00:29:01,702 --> 00:29:05,702 Speaker 1: a hunch about information that Sergeant John Keen had picked 457 00:29:05,782 --> 00:29:09,902 Speaker 1: up in when interviewing Jason Downey. He'd made a point 458 00:29:09,942 --> 00:29:12,542 Speaker 1: that he he tried to make an alibi for where 459 00:29:12,542 --> 00:29:15,062 Speaker 1: he was. He wasn't at this party on the Saturday night. 460 00:29:16,222 --> 00:29:19,062 Speaker 1: Yes he knew Chantell, but you know, he kept making 461 00:29:19,102 --> 00:29:21,822 Speaker 1: the point that he wasn't at this party. And I 462 00:29:21,902 --> 00:29:24,222 Speaker 1: went to McDonald's down in Gawla and got some food, 463 00:29:24,342 --> 00:29:26,982 Speaker 1: so on Sunday that's where I was. So he made 464 00:29:26,982 --> 00:29:30,742 Speaker 1: this alibi and he was insistent on it, and John 465 00:29:30,822 --> 00:29:32,742 Speaker 1: Keen had picked up going it's odd, you know, he 466 00:29:32,822 --> 00:29:35,542 Speaker 1: keeps offering up this alibi. If he hasn't got anything 467 00:29:35,582 --> 00:29:40,542 Speaker 1: to hide, why would he be volunteering this information. So 468 00:29:40,582 --> 00:29:43,702 Speaker 1: they did start to check him out, and they were 469 00:29:43,742 --> 00:29:45,702 Speaker 1: closing in on him obviously, and they knew that they 470 00:29:46,342 --> 00:29:49,342 Speaker 1: had someone who was a suspect here. By matching shoe 471 00:29:49,382 --> 00:29:54,222 Speaker 1: prints and doing some actual detective work matching fingerprints, they 472 00:29:54,302 --> 00:29:58,062 Speaker 1: started to think that this could be the guy. So 473 00:29:58,142 --> 00:30:03,022 Speaker 1: they got the colleague who was working with Jason that 474 00:30:03,182 --> 00:30:06,662 Speaker 1: time in to Nanda. They said, we'll get you to 475 00:30:06,662 --> 00:30:09,982 Speaker 1: bring him in to come in and sign his would 476 00:30:09,982 --> 00:30:13,062 Speaker 1: just tell him he's going to sign the statement, and 477 00:30:14,102 --> 00:30:17,382 Speaker 1: you know it's it's played out since in the weeks 478 00:30:17,422 --> 00:30:21,582 Speaker 1: after that, you know, these mechanics in the workshop at 479 00:30:21,662 --> 00:30:25,582 Speaker 1: lunch time, we're sort of joking with Jason Downey. They're going, oh, 480 00:30:25,582 --> 00:30:28,062 Speaker 1: they're going to arrest you for those murders. And these 481 00:30:28,062 --> 00:30:31,062 Speaker 1: are the same colleagues that just a few days before 482 00:30:31,142 --> 00:30:34,542 Speaker 1: we're thinking, hey, this guy's acting a bit dodgy. He's 483 00:30:34,582 --> 00:30:36,742 Speaker 1: got cuts on his hands as well. He's trying to 484 00:30:36,782 --> 00:30:40,062 Speaker 1: explain some things that had happened, and you know, enough 485 00:30:40,102 --> 00:30:42,382 Speaker 1: to take a photograph of him at their Christmas dinner 486 00:30:42,422 --> 00:30:44,902 Speaker 1: to say we suspect this guy has done this, and 487 00:30:44,902 --> 00:30:49,022 Speaker 1: they were joking with him. I can't imagine how nerve 488 00:30:49,142 --> 00:30:52,742 Speaker 1: racking that drive for that young person he was driving 489 00:30:52,782 --> 00:30:55,102 Speaker 1: to deliver him directly to the police station. Must have 490 00:30:55,182 --> 00:30:59,262 Speaker 1: been knowing that, you know, I'm driving a person back 491 00:30:59,262 --> 00:31:01,142 Speaker 1: to the police station that we all suspect has done it, 492 00:31:01,182 --> 00:31:02,982 Speaker 1: and we've been joking around with it. And of course, 493 00:31:03,502 --> 00:31:06,502 Speaker 1: you know, Jason Downey knows what he's done, doesn't. 494 00:31:06,222 --> 00:31:09,982 Speaker 2: He You've shown how dangerous that he is, so to 495 00:31:09,982 --> 00:31:13,382 Speaker 2: put that person in that position, that's right. 496 00:31:13,542 --> 00:31:16,062 Speaker 1: And there was no suggestion at the time, and there's 497 00:31:16,062 --> 00:31:19,142 Speaker 1: no suggestion that they were being followed by police patrol 498 00:31:19,182 --> 00:31:21,342 Speaker 1: on marked the car or anything like tracktor. That was 499 00:31:21,422 --> 00:31:24,902 Speaker 1: just I thought that was bizarre that police did that, 500 00:31:25,062 --> 00:31:28,862 Speaker 1: but it did work out for them. He went there 501 00:31:29,342 --> 00:31:33,742 Speaker 1: and he and they got their man. So, you know, 502 00:31:34,462 --> 00:31:36,502 Speaker 1: I don't think it'd be the number one way of 503 00:31:36,542 --> 00:31:39,902 Speaker 1: bringing in a suspect who's committed that sort of crime. 504 00:31:40,862 --> 00:31:44,822 Speaker 2: And Jason's name was suppressed for a while, wasn't it. 505 00:31:44,862 --> 00:31:46,742 Speaker 2: Why was that because he was eighteen at the time 506 00:31:46,742 --> 00:31:47,382 Speaker 2: of his arrest. 507 00:31:48,262 --> 00:31:53,862 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I can't really explain the legal reasons 508 00:31:53,902 --> 00:31:56,942 Speaker 1: why it was suppressed, but I think it was matching up. 509 00:31:57,342 --> 00:31:59,702 Speaker 1: You know that there were things that hadn't been found, 510 00:31:59,782 --> 00:32:03,662 Speaker 1: like so Chantelle's phone was missing, and we know that 511 00:32:03,662 --> 00:32:06,102 Speaker 1: there was a message sent from that phone that sort 512 00:32:06,102 --> 00:32:09,822 Speaker 1: of they apparently never found the phone, They hadn't found 513 00:32:09,822 --> 00:32:14,022 Speaker 1: a murder weapon. There was suggestions that, I guess his 514 00:32:14,182 --> 00:32:17,342 Speaker 1: identity suppressed. There's still a lot of talk about the 515 00:32:17,342 --> 00:32:20,622 Speaker 1: fact that this could one person do this. It's you know, 516 00:32:20,942 --> 00:32:23,302 Speaker 1: he wasn't a very strong guy, wasn't a big guy. 517 00:32:23,302 --> 00:32:26,942 Speaker 1: It's quite a weedy week looking in sip a eighteen 518 00:32:27,062 --> 00:32:32,782 Speaker 1: year old, he's managed to overpower Andrew and and you 519 00:32:32,822 --> 00:32:35,622 Speaker 1: know that was no mean feat. So there was still 520 00:32:35,662 --> 00:32:38,182 Speaker 1: this talk was there another person about did he have 521 00:32:38,182 --> 00:32:41,902 Speaker 1: an accomplice? And things like that? So plus small town, 522 00:32:42,542 --> 00:32:46,222 Speaker 1: you want to control the narrative. I want to control 523 00:32:46,502 --> 00:32:50,022 Speaker 1: the information that's coming out. So my only thinking is 524 00:32:50,022 --> 00:32:53,822 Speaker 1: that that's why it was suppressed. They're also chasing guilty 525 00:32:53,822 --> 00:32:57,502 Speaker 1: please from him, so that would be the hope to 526 00:32:57,822 --> 00:33:00,662 Speaker 1: I guess, limit the amount of pain for Christopher and 527 00:33:00,702 --> 00:33:02,102 Speaker 1: that community of Capunda. 528 00:33:02,662 --> 00:33:06,182 Speaker 2: The appearance of Downey really did kind of shock people, 529 00:33:06,302 --> 00:33:10,462 Speaker 2: didn't it when he was eventually kind of revealed to 530 00:33:10,502 --> 00:33:15,382 Speaker 2: be this killer because of the brutality and yeah, like 531 00:33:15,782 --> 00:33:18,062 Speaker 2: it just goes to show that you know, anyone can 532 00:33:18,102 --> 00:33:18,622 Speaker 2: be a killer. 533 00:33:19,502 --> 00:33:24,142 Speaker 1: Well, it really does, because you know, he wasn't the 534 00:33:24,142 --> 00:33:27,022 Speaker 1: obvious choice, or was he? If you have a look 535 00:33:27,062 --> 00:33:32,542 Speaker 1: at that footage of him placing those flowers's he's a 536 00:33:32,582 --> 00:33:36,582 Speaker 1: weak looking eighteen year old boy. And to have that 537 00:33:36,622 --> 00:33:42,422 Speaker 1: brutality in someone so young as well, to have that 538 00:33:42,542 --> 00:33:45,742 Speaker 1: amount of rage that must have taken like, it doesn't 539 00:33:45,942 --> 00:33:49,022 Speaker 1: it doesn't match the persona doesn't match the person at 540 00:33:49,062 --> 00:33:50,262 Speaker 1: all the crime. 541 00:33:51,062 --> 00:33:55,102 Speaker 2: Tell me about the strange rumor that was kind of 542 00:33:55,182 --> 00:33:58,622 Speaker 2: circulating once his name did come out. 543 00:33:58,902 --> 00:34:02,462 Speaker 1: Yeah, look, I guess that is probably what we're touching 544 00:34:02,502 --> 00:34:05,262 Speaker 1: on this. You know, the crime doesn't match. People are 545 00:34:05,302 --> 00:34:09,942 Speaker 1: looking for answers as to how this young man could 546 00:34:09,942 --> 00:34:13,742 Speaker 1: possibly responsible for such a brutal crime. And so the 547 00:34:13,822 --> 00:34:19,382 Speaker 1: rumors started coming out and we're flowing that he matched 548 00:34:19,822 --> 00:34:24,942 Speaker 1: the identity of the James Bolger killers. So he'd come 549 00:34:24,942 --> 00:34:30,102 Speaker 1: from Kilmarnock. And if you know the story of James Boulger, 550 00:34:30,582 --> 00:34:34,622 Speaker 1: two year old boy in the UK in nineteen ninety three, 551 00:34:35,422 --> 00:34:38,382 Speaker 1: taken off in a shopping center by two ten year olds. 552 00:34:39,742 --> 00:34:43,062 Speaker 1: He tortured him, held him hostage and then murdered him. 553 00:34:43,462 --> 00:34:47,222 Speaker 1: Robert Thompson and John Vannables. Now in two thousand and 554 00:34:47,262 --> 00:34:50,342 Speaker 1: one they were released with new identities, and there was 555 00:34:50,422 --> 00:34:53,502 Speaker 1: quite a bit of talk that Robert Thompson, who disappeared 556 00:34:53,502 --> 00:34:56,062 Speaker 1: off the face of the planet, really there was taught 557 00:34:56,142 --> 00:34:59,862 Speaker 1: that he'd been relocated to Australia. Now, in two thousand 558 00:34:59,902 --> 00:35:05,142 Speaker 1: and six, Jason Downey and his mum and the family 559 00:35:05,462 --> 00:35:09,462 Speaker 1: landed in Capunda, emigrated to Capunda, and there was a 560 00:35:09,502 --> 00:35:14,982 Speaker 1: bit of a. I guess a resemblance in just general 561 00:35:15,222 --> 00:35:17,622 Speaker 1: sort of if you looked at them and the ages 562 00:35:17,662 --> 00:35:21,942 Speaker 1: were matching up, and that reomor went around and was 563 00:35:22,182 --> 00:35:26,662 Speaker 1: thoroughly checked out by media organizations and proven to not 564 00:35:26,742 --> 00:35:30,982 Speaker 1: be the case, obviously, but it probably the speculation about 565 00:35:31,022 --> 00:35:34,582 Speaker 1: all the consideration that how could someone have so much 566 00:35:34,702 --> 00:35:37,502 Speaker 1: rage they went to match it to someone who'd done 567 00:35:37,542 --> 00:35:40,342 Speaker 1: something so violent and vulgar in the past. 568 00:35:41,302 --> 00:35:45,862 Speaker 2: Can we talk about the evidence that was gathered against Downey? 569 00:35:45,862 --> 00:35:48,462 Speaker 2: You mentioned DNA, So they had, you know, a lot 570 00:35:48,542 --> 00:35:54,342 Speaker 2: of blood, they had fingerprints, they had footprints, seamen, what 571 00:35:54,462 --> 00:35:57,022 Speaker 2: else did they have against him? 572 00:35:57,542 --> 00:36:01,622 Speaker 1: Going through police reports on what they did gather and yeah, 573 00:36:01,662 --> 00:36:05,782 Speaker 1: a fingerprint that was almost accidentally gathered. They were dusting 574 00:36:05,822 --> 00:36:10,862 Speaker 1: one space on the inside of Chantell's bedroom door location 575 00:36:10,982 --> 00:36:15,302 Speaker 1: that they looking at, and a bit of the dust 576 00:36:15,422 --> 00:36:18,982 Speaker 1: the fingerprint dust was missed place that was sort of 577 00:36:19,102 --> 00:36:21,342 Speaker 1: drifted off somewhere else and it landed on a fingerprint, 578 00:36:21,382 --> 00:36:24,182 Speaker 1: which was a fantastic thumb print. I think that they're 579 00:36:24,222 --> 00:36:26,622 Speaker 1: able to lift. So they had that there an they 580 00:36:26,622 --> 00:36:29,702 Speaker 1: had that fairly early on, but of course Jason Downey 581 00:36:29,702 --> 00:36:32,462 Speaker 1: had never I didn't have a criminal record or anything, 582 00:36:32,502 --> 00:36:34,982 Speaker 1: so they had nothing. You know, they had a fingerprint 583 00:36:35,502 --> 00:36:39,782 Speaker 1: eventually was going to prove vital, crucial. There was also 584 00:36:40,622 --> 00:36:44,742 Speaker 1: the shoeprints that were left around in the blood that 585 00:36:44,902 --> 00:36:47,662 Speaker 1: you know, he'd tried to cover up at one stage 586 00:36:47,702 --> 00:36:51,902 Speaker 1: and he'd walked out, and he was so calcul well 587 00:36:51,942 --> 00:36:57,102 Speaker 1: not calculated, but working to in that scene, such an 588 00:36:57,142 --> 00:36:58,982 Speaker 1: odd thing. He'd tried to clean up some blood. Then 589 00:36:59,022 --> 00:37:01,502 Speaker 1: he went back and stabbed people. He took his shoes 590 00:37:01,542 --> 00:37:06,262 Speaker 1: off at one start and walked around in bare feet, 591 00:37:06,262 --> 00:37:09,662 Speaker 1: in socks, i should say, and put these different sock 592 00:37:09,742 --> 00:37:14,062 Speaker 1: covered prints around the place, and he left there with 593 00:37:14,102 --> 00:37:17,462 Speaker 1: his shoes off, and they've never been found. So they 594 00:37:17,622 --> 00:37:21,142 Speaker 1: managed to his mum had revealed that, you know, he 595 00:37:21,182 --> 00:37:23,422 Speaker 1: only had three pairs of shoes, so they matched shoe 596 00:37:23,422 --> 00:37:26,502 Speaker 1: prints from a pair that was missing, like one of 597 00:37:26,502 --> 00:37:29,502 Speaker 1: those pairs was missing. But all of that stuff was 598 00:37:29,782 --> 00:37:33,622 Speaker 1: what ultimately got him secured that conviction and all that 599 00:37:33,662 --> 00:37:37,062 Speaker 1: evidence against him. But the one thing that they didn't 600 00:37:37,102 --> 00:37:39,822 Speaker 1: find was the knife, and it was a kitchen knife 601 00:37:39,902 --> 00:37:43,702 Speaker 1: taken from the Row family's house, so he didn't go 602 00:37:43,782 --> 00:37:47,462 Speaker 1: there with a weapon. From everything we know, he took it, 603 00:37:47,702 --> 00:37:52,142 Speaker 1: and this sort of I guess raises the point that 604 00:37:52,262 --> 00:37:54,622 Speaker 1: this was a snap. He didn't go there with the 605 00:37:54,662 --> 00:37:59,342 Speaker 1: intent to kill them, but that's how it happened. The 606 00:37:59,462 --> 00:38:02,862 Speaker 1: police line on that is that they never found that knife, 607 00:38:03,662 --> 00:38:08,062 Speaker 1: they never found the murder weapon. But I'd questioned that 608 00:38:08,142 --> 00:38:11,262 Speaker 1: as well. Those months later and happened to be on 609 00:38:11,302 --> 00:38:15,782 Speaker 1: a day that Jason Downey was facing court, and from 610 00:38:15,782 --> 00:38:18,342 Speaker 1: my memory, it was a day that he entered his plea. 611 00:38:19,342 --> 00:38:23,262 Speaker 1: It'd been horrific for the family members, in the community, 612 00:38:23,342 --> 00:38:27,422 Speaker 1: and of course the legal system, the prosecutors were all 613 00:38:27,462 --> 00:38:30,342 Speaker 1: hoping for that day to end that, you know, get 614 00:38:30,382 --> 00:38:34,342 Speaker 1: a guilty plea and try to stem that flow of 615 00:38:34,382 --> 00:38:35,622 Speaker 1: pain for that community. 616 00:38:36,222 --> 00:38:39,822 Speaker 2: You mentioned that he entered a plea. It ended up being, 617 00:38:40,062 --> 00:38:43,982 Speaker 2: you know, a year later after the murders. So before 618 00:38:44,062 --> 00:38:46,902 Speaker 2: that he was kind of maintaining his innocence, wasn't He 619 00:38:46,942 --> 00:38:50,142 Speaker 2: even had kind of a strange story about why there 620 00:38:50,222 --> 00:38:51,702 Speaker 2: might have been his fingerprint there. 621 00:38:52,502 --> 00:38:55,822 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, there was. There was a lot of a 622 00:38:55,862 --> 00:38:59,022 Speaker 1: lot of that, and I think that's when it did 623 00:38:59,462 --> 00:39:02,622 Speaker 1: come out. It's not real clear what his story was, 624 00:39:03,542 --> 00:39:07,542 Speaker 1: and I certainly say myself I didn't closely follow those 625 00:39:07,702 --> 00:39:10,422 Speaker 1: back and forth, so it got out of my hands, 626 00:39:10,582 --> 00:39:13,622 Speaker 1: the investigative guy on the ground, and it was really 627 00:39:13,782 --> 00:39:17,262 Speaker 1: in our court reporter's hands. He was trying to give 628 00:39:17,302 --> 00:39:20,142 Speaker 1: reason for not being there. So I think the police 629 00:39:20,142 --> 00:39:23,662 Speaker 1: probably explain it better. And I've heard that that you know, 630 00:39:23,742 --> 00:39:28,182 Speaker 1: he was. They were keenly getting those fingerprints and keenly 631 00:39:28,222 --> 00:39:30,222 Speaker 1: getting these bits and pieces, and they wanted to really 632 00:39:30,262 --> 00:39:33,582 Speaker 1: make sure they had that forensic stuff. Having the shoe 633 00:39:33,622 --> 00:39:38,942 Speaker 1: prints and having the fingerprint, having multiple bits of forensic 634 00:39:38,982 --> 00:39:42,142 Speaker 1: evidence meant that they could shut down if he did 635 00:39:42,182 --> 00:39:45,022 Speaker 1: want to say, hey, but I've been there in the past, 636 00:39:45,062 --> 00:39:49,742 Speaker 1: and the police made it quite clear that. And Dylan 637 00:39:49,782 --> 00:39:54,422 Speaker 1: Pratt has also said that he rarely had gone inside 638 00:39:54,462 --> 00:39:58,742 Speaker 1: that house to see Chantell. He wasn't welcome there. Jason 639 00:39:58,782 --> 00:40:04,662 Speaker 1: Downey had met Christopher Rowe once a few weeks before 640 00:40:05,502 --> 00:40:11,702 Speaker 1: the murder, and Christopher, who has shared that he would normally, 641 00:40:12,222 --> 00:40:14,902 Speaker 1: you know, shake someone's hand, he obviously had a bit 642 00:40:14,942 --> 00:40:18,062 Speaker 1: of a feeling about Jason Downey because he didn't shake 643 00:40:18,102 --> 00:40:21,182 Speaker 1: his hand, he said, so I think they stacked up 644 00:40:21,222 --> 00:40:26,742 Speaker 1: the storyline that there was no great possibility that Jason 645 00:40:26,782 --> 00:40:30,262 Speaker 1: Downey had been a regular person inside that Harriet Street house. 646 00:40:30,302 --> 00:40:34,582 Speaker 1: So his alibis or his whatever story he made up 647 00:40:34,702 --> 00:40:35,902 Speaker 1: wasn't really going to sit tight. 648 00:40:36,342 --> 00:40:41,142 Speaker 2: So he did plead guilty, which obviously saves Chris and 649 00:40:41,382 --> 00:40:44,342 Speaker 2: the other family members from having to go through the ordeal. 650 00:40:44,102 --> 00:40:44,662 Speaker 1: Of a trial. 651 00:40:45,182 --> 00:40:49,862 Speaker 2: I want to talk about Jason's apology letter, if you 652 00:40:49,902 --> 00:40:54,422 Speaker 2: can talk to that, because I've seen it described as 653 00:40:54,742 --> 00:40:57,942 Speaker 2: a childlike reaction to a horrendous crime, which I think 654 00:40:58,022 --> 00:40:59,342 Speaker 2: is a very fitting description. 655 00:41:00,542 --> 00:41:03,742 Speaker 1: Yeah, it was. He called it my recent actions, was 656 00:41:03,782 --> 00:41:07,782 Speaker 1: the way he described killing three people. So it was 657 00:41:07,822 --> 00:41:11,062 Speaker 1: not an apology. It was there's no trition, there's no 658 00:41:11,142 --> 00:41:15,342 Speaker 1: remorse in it. I mean, it was the writings of 659 00:41:15,942 --> 00:41:20,142 Speaker 1: a child and a person who had no comprehension of 660 00:41:20,782 --> 00:41:24,102 Speaker 1: what he did. Now, I'm sure Jason Downey did comprehend 661 00:41:24,142 --> 00:41:27,422 Speaker 1: what he'd done. He knew what he'd done, but I'm 662 00:41:27,462 --> 00:41:30,142 Speaker 1: sure he didn't get advice on how to write that letter. 663 00:41:30,182 --> 00:41:35,542 Speaker 1: Because the apology letter, because it just it didn't hit. 664 00:41:36,382 --> 00:41:41,062 Speaker 1: It only hurt that family. You know, he was upset, 665 00:41:41,542 --> 00:41:45,462 Speaker 1: he wrote him there before this, before my recent actions, 666 00:41:45,822 --> 00:41:48,222 Speaker 1: I had a good job, I had a good car, 667 00:41:48,422 --> 00:41:51,902 Speaker 1: and had a good social life, and I've lost all 668 00:41:51,942 --> 00:41:56,342 Speaker 1: of that because of my recent actions, so he didn't get. 669 00:41:56,182 --> 00:42:01,862 Speaker 2: It so down. He ended up getting thirty five years, 670 00:42:02,342 --> 00:42:05,142 Speaker 2: which to me, knowing what he did and knowing how 671 00:42:05,182 --> 00:42:06,942 Speaker 2: many people he killed, doesn't sound like a lotch but 672 00:42:06,982 --> 00:42:10,022 Speaker 2: it is actually a very significant penalty in South Australia, 673 00:42:10,102 --> 00:42:10,422 Speaker 2: isn't it. 674 00:42:11,182 --> 00:42:15,302 Speaker 1: Yeah, that is There's only been one higher I believe, 675 00:42:15,382 --> 00:42:19,342 Speaker 1: and that's Michael Barry Fife, the bird Man of Yatler 676 00:42:19,382 --> 00:42:23,662 Speaker 1: they call him. I think he got a total of 677 00:42:23,822 --> 00:42:28,622 Speaker 1: thirty eight years, but that's thirty five years before he 678 00:42:28,662 --> 00:42:32,262 Speaker 1: has any chance of parole. Doesn't mean that he's necessarily 679 00:42:32,302 --> 00:42:32,942 Speaker 1: going to get out. 680 00:42:36,342 --> 00:42:39,022 Speaker 2: After the break, we find out where Christopher Rowe is 681 00:42:39,062 --> 00:42:41,782 Speaker 2: now and whether he's been able to move on from 682 00:42:41,782 --> 00:42:48,422 Speaker 2: the murder of his family. Back to Chris again, because 683 00:42:48,942 --> 00:42:50,902 Speaker 2: you know, you were the one of the only, or 684 00:42:50,982 --> 00:42:53,782 Speaker 2: if only, the only journo to kind of have extensive 685 00:42:53,862 --> 00:42:58,382 Speaker 2: chats with him, and another kind of insight he gave 686 00:42:58,462 --> 00:43:03,022 Speaker 2: you was the amount of debt that these murders left 687 00:43:03,102 --> 00:43:05,262 Speaker 2: him in and the kind of lack of help he 688 00:43:05,422 --> 00:43:05,782 Speaker 2: was given. 689 00:43:06,342 --> 00:43:09,862 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm trying to think back to it, but I 690 00:43:09,902 --> 00:43:13,702 Speaker 1: do think so the victims of crime levee is you know, 691 00:43:14,062 --> 00:43:15,982 Speaker 1: is there to pick up help pick up some of 692 00:43:16,062 --> 00:43:19,542 Speaker 1: those pieces. But you can imagine Christopher couldn't work for 693 00:43:19,982 --> 00:43:23,662 Speaker 1: two years, really like it couldn't have a normal life. 694 00:43:24,702 --> 00:43:29,222 Speaker 1: And even after the you know, the the sentencing and everything, 695 00:43:29,262 --> 00:43:32,182 Speaker 1: there's there's no normally, it's hard to get back to 696 00:43:32,222 --> 00:43:36,702 Speaker 1: any normal life there and the trauma trying to deal 697 00:43:36,742 --> 00:43:41,622 Speaker 1: with it with counseling and trying to just make day 698 00:43:41,662 --> 00:43:44,302 Speaker 1: to day happen and get around is going to cost 699 00:43:44,342 --> 00:43:49,542 Speaker 1: you a great deal of money. The I think there's 700 00:43:49,622 --> 00:43:55,742 Speaker 1: hold ups with the states as well. That's going to 701 00:43:55,822 --> 00:43:59,582 Speaker 1: happen in situations like that. So he's really back against 702 00:43:59,622 --> 00:44:02,422 Speaker 1: the wall type stuff. And the victims of crime levee 703 00:44:02,422 --> 00:44:06,942 Speaker 1: that was paid out to I guess the family. It 704 00:44:06,942 --> 00:44:09,302 Speaker 1: wasn't even paid out to Chris. He wasn't considered a 705 00:44:09,382 --> 00:44:12,422 Speaker 1: victim of crime because he wasn't there. He wasn't a 706 00:44:12,502 --> 00:44:16,302 Speaker 1: victim of a They lost his whole family. And I 707 00:44:16,302 --> 00:44:21,742 Speaker 1: think the total amount was twenty three thousand dollars from 708 00:44:21,822 --> 00:44:24,102 Speaker 1: Victims of crime Levy, which has got millions of dollars 709 00:44:24,142 --> 00:44:27,342 Speaker 1: in that. Mind you, every time you break the law, 710 00:44:27,382 --> 00:44:30,422 Speaker 1: obviously there's that levy you're paying on top of your fine. 711 00:44:31,262 --> 00:44:35,262 Speaker 1: It was seven thousand dollars per life taken and then 712 00:44:35,302 --> 00:44:38,022 Speaker 1: some money to clean up the crimes and the house 713 00:44:39,142 --> 00:44:43,062 Speaker 1: for sale or for yeah, also it could later be sold. 714 00:44:43,302 --> 00:44:48,022 Speaker 1: And that was a compensation that the Row family got 715 00:44:48,382 --> 00:44:50,822 Speaker 1: that Christopher Roe got. So there was no compensation for 716 00:44:50,902 --> 00:44:52,782 Speaker 1: Christopher for losing his family. 717 00:44:53,542 --> 00:44:56,142 Speaker 2: You did say that there was, you know, somewhat of 718 00:44:56,142 --> 00:44:59,342 Speaker 2: a happy ending for Chris. He and his partner had 719 00:44:59,342 --> 00:45:01,822 Speaker 2: a little baby boy together and as far as you know, 720 00:45:02,182 --> 00:45:03,662 Speaker 2: they're living a happy life now. 721 00:45:04,822 --> 00:45:09,582 Speaker 1: Look, I know that it was very up and down 722 00:45:09,662 --> 00:45:13,062 Speaker 1: for the and I know that they did have a 723 00:45:13,062 --> 00:45:16,222 Speaker 1: little baby and that was wonderful. And I do believe 724 00:45:17,142 --> 00:45:20,982 Speaker 1: they had a second child together, but I don't I 725 00:45:21,022 --> 00:45:23,062 Speaker 1: don't know for sure, but I don't believe that they 726 00:45:23,622 --> 00:45:27,662 Speaker 1: continued in a partnership. But I think they've always continued 727 00:45:27,702 --> 00:45:30,302 Speaker 1: to support each other. So I don't know that they're 728 00:45:30,342 --> 00:45:35,062 Speaker 1: together anymore, but certainly my last contact with them, which 729 00:45:35,102 --> 00:45:38,422 Speaker 1: was some years ago, was that they're still very supportive 730 00:45:38,462 --> 00:45:42,502 Speaker 1: and you know, they have a huge amount of support, 731 00:45:42,622 --> 00:45:46,462 Speaker 1: still ongoing support from that Compunda community, and you know, 732 00:45:46,822 --> 00:45:50,822 Speaker 1: they wrapped their arms around Christopher and Cora Lee and 733 00:45:50,942 --> 00:45:53,622 Speaker 1: their family and each other as well, because there's so 734 00:45:53,742 --> 00:45:57,462 Speaker 1: many people that were very, very much hurt within that 735 00:45:57,582 --> 00:46:01,542 Speaker 1: community for a whole myriad of reasons, not just because 736 00:46:01,542 --> 00:46:04,502 Speaker 1: they lost friends, but because the impact that such a 737 00:46:04,502 --> 00:46:05,782 Speaker 1: crime would have on a community. 738 00:46:06,342 --> 00:46:09,382 Speaker 2: He isn't an Australian citizen. He's originally from Scotland, as 739 00:46:09,422 --> 00:46:13,822 Speaker 2: we've mentioned. If and when he does get out, will 740 00:46:13,862 --> 00:46:16,182 Speaker 2: he stay here, will he be able to settle in Australia, 741 00:46:16,302 --> 00:46:18,862 Speaker 2: or does he get kind of kicked out of the country. 742 00:46:19,542 --> 00:46:23,302 Speaker 1: Yeah, he would be extradited. Was at the point of 743 00:46:23,462 --> 00:46:27,262 Speaker 1: him being sentenced and going to jail, that was the 744 00:46:27,662 --> 00:46:30,422 Speaker 1: status then that you know, if ever he did get 745 00:46:30,462 --> 00:46:35,022 Speaker 1: out or was released parole after thirty five years, it 746 00:46:35,062 --> 00:46:38,262 Speaker 1: would be extradition for him, right. 747 00:46:38,902 --> 00:46:41,662 Speaker 2: And I believe that there was a bit of media 748 00:46:41,862 --> 00:46:44,582 Speaker 2: public resistance kind of happening at the thought of that 749 00:46:44,662 --> 00:46:47,182 Speaker 2: as well from Scotland who said they didn't want him. 750 00:46:47,702 --> 00:46:51,182 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, there seemed to be that coming from across 751 00:46:51,262 --> 00:46:54,462 Speaker 1: the way there that no, you can keep him. He's 752 00:46:54,502 --> 00:46:56,262 Speaker 1: been there since he was a child. He did this, 753 00:46:56,982 --> 00:46:59,222 Speaker 1: he's one of yours. He's not one of ours. So 754 00:46:59,662 --> 00:47:03,342 Speaker 1: I think from memory that's where there was plenty of resistance. Well, 755 00:47:03,382 --> 00:47:06,862 Speaker 1: I had a bit to do with chasing. He's got 756 00:47:06,862 --> 00:47:13,302 Speaker 1: a half sister back in Scotland, Jodie was a half sister. 757 00:47:14,062 --> 00:47:18,342 Speaker 1: Jason Downey's father is not even on his birth certificate, 758 00:47:18,422 --> 00:47:20,942 Speaker 1: so I'm not sure that he doesn't know the identity 759 00:47:20,982 --> 00:47:25,182 Speaker 1: of his father. So kil Marnut was a pretty tough, 760 00:47:25,342 --> 00:47:28,062 Speaker 1: rough and tumble place as well. So there's no doubt 761 00:47:28,062 --> 00:47:34,022 Speaker 1: that this lad had a pretty tough upbringing and or 762 00:47:34,222 --> 00:47:37,702 Speaker 1: hard life. You know, he was uprooted and emigrated to Australia, 763 00:47:37,742 --> 00:47:41,142 Speaker 1: didn't like Capunda and things like that, but you know, 764 00:47:41,382 --> 00:47:43,582 Speaker 1: he doesn't really have a place these places in jarl 765 00:47:43,582 --> 00:47:44,142 Speaker 1: Atte moment. 766 00:47:45,222 --> 00:47:50,102 Speaker 2: Has the stain of this crime affected Kapunda long term, 767 00:47:50,222 --> 00:47:53,502 Speaker 2: you know, like unfortunately still to this day it's kind 768 00:47:53,502 --> 00:47:56,102 Speaker 2: of referred to as the Kapunda triple murder. It's got 769 00:47:56,142 --> 00:47:59,902 Speaker 2: the town's name and it's kind of title. Has it 770 00:47:59,942 --> 00:48:00,782 Speaker 2: affected the town? 771 00:48:02,262 --> 00:48:06,022 Speaker 1: I would say it certainly had some impact on it. 772 00:48:06,142 --> 00:48:11,062 Speaker 1: But they're pretty good people and I able to pick up 773 00:48:11,102 --> 00:48:12,782 Speaker 1: the pieces pretty well. 774 00:48:12,822 --> 00:48:12,942 Speaker 2: You know. 775 00:48:12,942 --> 00:48:16,582 Speaker 1: It was in twenty ten and for that first decade, Yeah, definitely, 776 00:48:17,382 --> 00:48:19,382 Speaker 1: I think that they've done a really good job of 777 00:48:19,982 --> 00:48:24,102 Speaker 1: filtering that out and washing cleansing themselves of that. But 778 00:48:24,142 --> 00:48:27,302 Speaker 1: you're right, it's still the Companda triple murder. If someone 779 00:48:27,342 --> 00:48:31,542 Speaker 1: asked me about the road founder Mesa, it's the Companda murders. 780 00:48:31,142 --> 00:48:36,942 Speaker 1: It's not unlike Snowtown Truro. Truro is just down the road. 781 00:48:37,022 --> 00:48:39,862 Speaker 1: You know, Truro, a town with a secret. Capunda hasn't 782 00:48:39,902 --> 00:48:43,022 Speaker 1: earned that sort of title. The murders are always going 783 00:48:43,022 --> 00:48:46,302 Speaker 1: to be known as the Capunda Copunda triple murders. 784 00:48:46,662 --> 00:48:50,822 Speaker 2: How do you reflect on your time investigating this story. 785 00:48:51,742 --> 00:48:53,982 Speaker 2: Did it have a big impact on you at the time, 786 00:48:54,982 --> 00:48:56,502 Speaker 2: and do you think about it often or is it 787 00:48:56,542 --> 00:48:59,262 Speaker 2: one of those ones that you've been able to let go? 788 00:49:00,542 --> 00:49:04,142 Speaker 1: H No, I don't think I let go of any 789 00:49:04,182 --> 00:49:07,662 Speaker 1: of the crimes that I have investigated, and there's been 790 00:49:07,662 --> 00:49:12,582 Speaker 1: some horrific ones, which does take an impact, and Kampanda 791 00:49:12,662 --> 00:49:17,742 Speaker 1: certainly does. I think doing this now is a great reminder. 792 00:49:17,742 --> 00:49:22,422 Speaker 1: I've got a fifteen year old daughter, and you know, 793 00:49:22,822 --> 00:49:26,542 Speaker 1: I reflect at the time, you know, she was just 794 00:49:25,662 --> 00:49:31,222 Speaker 1: a child, and and I'd softened a fair of bit 795 00:49:31,262 --> 00:49:34,302 Speaker 1: because I, you know, had been the pretty hard nosed 796 00:49:35,022 --> 00:49:37,182 Speaker 1: journo out to get the scoop all the time out there, 797 00:49:37,222 --> 00:49:41,382 Speaker 1: and I'd actually soften and I really felt this violence 798 00:49:41,422 --> 00:49:45,102 Speaker 1: against a young girl that that hurt me. It made 799 00:49:45,142 --> 00:49:47,662 Speaker 1: me hungry to find out what happened as well. So, 800 00:49:48,462 --> 00:49:50,982 Speaker 1: you know a bit of a mix of being the 801 00:49:51,462 --> 00:49:54,822 Speaker 1: journal and the dad, I guess, and the community member, 802 00:49:54,862 --> 00:49:58,022 Speaker 1: and I felt that I had that strong connection to 803 00:49:58,102 --> 00:50:00,982 Speaker 1: the community out there as well. I felt that I 804 00:50:01,222 --> 00:50:05,742 Speaker 1: was in my role serving that community and my state 805 00:50:05,902 --> 00:50:08,782 Speaker 1: to be able to try to tell this story in 806 00:50:08,902 --> 00:50:12,662 Speaker 1: a way that was you know, accurate and foolsome and 807 00:50:12,822 --> 00:50:16,262 Speaker 1: also carry some compassion with it. So it does stick 808 00:50:16,342 --> 00:50:19,422 Speaker 1: with me quite a bit as one of the cases 809 00:50:19,502 --> 00:50:24,782 Speaker 1: that you know, I'll never forget it and the emotions 810 00:50:24,822 --> 00:50:26,382 Speaker 1: I had around it while I was doing it, and 811 00:50:26,702 --> 00:50:29,182 Speaker 1: there was some times where you're just blown away and 812 00:50:29,982 --> 00:50:33,022 Speaker 1: you do want to go off and have a bit 813 00:50:33,062 --> 00:50:36,062 Speaker 1: of a cry as well, and that you know, it 814 00:50:36,182 --> 00:50:38,462 Speaker 1: doesn't matter how tough a bloke you think you are, 815 00:50:38,542 --> 00:50:39,582 Speaker 1: that's okay. 816 00:50:42,422 --> 00:50:44,702 Speaker 2: Thanks to Brian for helping us to tell this story. 817 00:50:45,022 --> 00:50:48,062 Speaker 2: True Crime Conversations is a Muma mea podcast hosted and 818 00:50:48,142 --> 00:50:51,662 Speaker 2: produced by me Jemma Bass and Tarlie Blackman, with audio 819 00:50:51,782 --> 00:50:55,222 Speaker 2: design by Jacob Brown. Thanks so much for listening. I'll 820 00:50:55,262 --> 00:50:57,742 Speaker 2: be back next week with another true crime conversation.