Speaker 1: We acknowledged the traditional custodians of the land we're recording
Speaker 1: on today.
Speaker 2: I started asking for my mom and my husband and
Speaker 2: they said no, this is a life saving hysterectomy, and
Speaker 2: I said okay, and that's when they said, we'll put
Speaker 2: you to sleep now. So then I went to sleep
Speaker 2: and woke up in the ICU forty eight hours later.
Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome back to Eat Sleep, Shit, Repeat, your
Speaker 1: unhinged podcast all about the madness that is motherhood and
Speaker 1: everything in between.
Speaker 3: I'm Kyri Souls, I'm Kelly McCarron and in case you
Speaker 3: missed last week's episode, we talked toddlers and bullying, what
Speaker 3: happens when you've got the bad kid and should we
Speaker 3: be worried?
Speaker 1: Yes, and thank you so much to the shitters for
Speaker 1: sharing their experiences and our dms. It made us have
Speaker 1: a we chuckle and feel a lot. Seen on the show. Today,
Speaker 1: we're talking to a lovely shitter, Kirsty, who was Australia's
Speaker 1: first uterus transplant recipient. Her mum, Michelle, was her donor.
Speaker 1: It's a fascinating story and one that we are so
Speaker 1: so excited to share far and wide. Modern medicine is
Speaker 1: kind of amazing, and we also get into the emotional
Speaker 1: side of doing something so groundbreaking.
Speaker 3: Honestly, I'm so excited for this to be going live
Speaker 3: because everyone I've told about this conversation afterwards was like
Speaker 3: what yeah, yeah, I spent my whole summer holidays being.
Speaker 1: Like we are interviewing Kirsty the first and they were like.
Speaker 4: Wow, yeah.
Speaker 3: A little reminder, because we have pre recorded this before
Speaker 3: the bearbit arrives, we aren't doing Pecan Pit as we
Speaker 3: thought they could age quite badly, but don't worry. It
Speaker 3: will be back as soon as we're back to our
Speaker 3: regular recording schedule.
Speaker 1: That's right, let's get into it. So we first heard
Speaker 1: from Kirsty after Cal asked you the shit is for
Speaker 1: your amazing stories, and well this one truly takes the cake.
Speaker 1: So Kirsty responded saying, Hi, ladies, love the pod. My
Speaker 1: name is Kirsty and I was Australia's first uterus transplant recipient.
Speaker 1: My mum, Michelle was my donor. The transplant surgery was
Speaker 1: successful and I was able to carry another child. That
Speaker 1: child is my son, Hena, who turned one in December.
Speaker 1: I would love to share my story of secondary and
Speaker 1: fertility and the uterus transplant clinical trial. We could not
Speaker 1: be more excited to talk to Kirsty today and share
Speaker 1: her story with our lovely community here. She is well welcome, Kirsty.
Speaker 1: Can you tell us a little bit about yourself, where
Speaker 1: you live, who lives with you, and what keeps you busy?
Speaker 5: Hi, ladies.
Speaker 2: I live on the mid north coast of New South Wales.
Speaker 2: I live with my husband Nicholas and our two children,
Speaker 2: my daughter who's three and a half, Violet, and my
Speaker 2: son Henry, and he is one.
Speaker 3: So talk us through your journey of deciding to have
Speaker 3: kids and what your fertility journey looked like.
Speaker 2: My husband and I we got engaged, we got married,
Speaker 2: than that little thing COVID sort of ruined our plans
Speaker 2: of going on a honeymoon, and we had a chat
Speaker 2: and sort of said, well, if we're not going on holidays,
Speaker 2: we always want children.
Speaker 5: But we hadn't, you know, actively tried.
Speaker 2: So I said, oh, look it could take you know,
Speaker 2: six or twelve months, we should just start trying for
Speaker 2: a baby. And that next month I did a pregnancy
Speaker 2: test and we were pregnant. I lost that pregnancy early
Speaker 2: on and went back to my GP, and he said,
Speaker 2: you know, have a natural period and then when you're ready,
Speaker 2: you can try again. So I had a period, and
Speaker 2: then that next month we tried again. We fell pregnant
Speaker 2: with Violet. I was referred to the MGP program, which
Speaker 2: is the Midway Free group practice. So I had some
Speaker 2: lovely midwives a fairly easy pregnancy. I was still working,
Speaker 2: and then when I went into labor, Violet was posterior,
Speaker 2: so her spine to my spine, and I was getting
Speaker 2: really dreadful back pain. I had been into the hospit
Speaker 2: and seeing the midwives and it was confirmed she was posterior.
Speaker 2: We were given like a sheet of very wonderful stretches
Speaker 2: and positions to get into to relieve pain, but also
Speaker 2: to see if Violet would flip around. She did not
Speaker 2: do that, and then I labored a little bit longer
Speaker 2: at home, got to seven centimeters, went to the hospital,
Speaker 2: got the feeling that I needed to push, got to
Speaker 2: ten centimeters, started pushing, and then instead of Violet tucking
Speaker 2: her chin to her chest, she went the other way
Speaker 2: and tried to come out eyeballs first.
Speaker 5: So she was very lost. She had no idea what
Speaker 5: she was doing.
Speaker 2: The poor thing so that also stopped the doctors being
Speaker 2: able to use sort of any interventions I.
Speaker 5: Force its or suction.
Speaker 2: So then I went in for an emergency cesarean. Violet
Speaker 2: was born a little after one o'clock in the morning,
Speaker 2: and she was happy and healthy and crying, and I
Speaker 2: got to give her a little kiss, and then my
Speaker 2: midwife and my husband went down to the birthing floor
Speaker 2: maternity and it was whilst I was still in the
Speaker 2: bed the surgery plank that I had a postpartum hemorrhage
Speaker 2: and I lost eleven liters of blood, so that was
Speaker 2: my body's volumed twice over and they had to perform
Speaker 2: a life saving hystery to me.
Speaker 5: Basically, oh wow, were you awake? Yeah.
Speaker 2: So the first thing I realized that alerted everyone to
Speaker 2: the issue was I was getting pain in my back,
Speaker 2: which obviously I'd had an epidural, I shouldn't be able
Speaker 2: to feel pain. And then I started vomiting ferociously, and
Speaker 2: basically because I was losing my blood, I became hypoxic,
Speaker 2: so I didn't have enough oxygen traveling around my body.
Speaker 5: But yes, I was awake.
Speaker 2: And then basically, once it was an emergency sort of
Speaker 2: everyone started coming back in and they were getting more
Speaker 2: teams of people and basically they lowered the curtain and
Speaker 2: just said, no, we need to do a hysterect to me.
Speaker 2: And I said no, and I started asking for my
Speaker 2: mum and my husband and they said no, this is
Speaker 2: a life saving hysterect to me, and I said okay.
Speaker 2: And that's when because the anethetist, you know how they
Speaker 2: sort of stayed behind your head and yeah, sort of
Speaker 2: looking over.
Speaker 5: The top of you. They said, we'll put you to
Speaker 5: sleep now.
Speaker 2: So yeah, then I went to sleep and woke up
Speaker 2: in the ICU forty eight hours later.
Speaker 3: Did you go to sleep thinking, oh my god, I'm
Speaker 3: going to die like that is horrifying.
Speaker 2: I went to sleep thinking, goodness, me put me to sleep.
Speaker 2: I can't yea, yeah, listen to this anymore. And honestly,
Speaker 2: I knew it was really bad, but there was just
Speaker 2: something innately in me that I knew I was fighting
Speaker 2: and I just wanted to meet my baby.
Speaker 5: So yeah, the second I.
Speaker 2: Woke up, the nurse came in and she's like, oh,
Speaker 2: go get your husband. And I was in the ICU,
Speaker 2: so they were on maternity, so they brought Violet in
Speaker 2: with the little bassinett on wheels, and because I'd lost
Speaker 2: so much blood, I was a little bit woozy, And
Speaker 2: because I was with the MGP and I was really
Speaker 2: clear with my birth plan that I wanted to breastfeed,
Speaker 2: the midwives had actually been milking my breasts and feeding
Speaker 2: Violet the colostrum.
Speaker 4: The midwives are the best people.
Speaker 5: They're phenomenal.
Speaker 2: I know, they're just above and beyond obviously trying to
Speaker 2: one create that connection with me, but also yet trying
Speaker 2: to feel that wish of mine of wanting to be
Speaker 2: able to breastfeed. And Yeah, to be honest, when I
Speaker 2: woke up, I knew what had happened. I remembered everything
Speaker 2: that had happened. I remembered that they told me that
Speaker 2: I was going to have a hysterectomy. In my head,
Speaker 2: I assumed that they only took my uterus. That was
Speaker 2: confirmed by doctors and nurses pretty much straight away. Yes,
Speaker 2: it was just your uterus. You still have your ovaries.
Speaker 3: So if you've lost your uterus but kept everything else,
Speaker 3: you won't go through menopause correct, correct, very crept.
Speaker 5: Yeah, And in my head, I wasn't even thinking about menopause.
Speaker 5: I was thinking oh.
Speaker 4: My god, with my brain, I'm like, not menopause. That's awful.
Speaker 4: You've got a new one end of going through menopause.
Speaker 2: Well, that obviously is something you would have to think about.
Speaker 2: But to me immediately, while it was my first baby,
Speaker 2: I knew I wanted to have a gaggle of children,
Speaker 2: like I wanted to have more children. So as soon
Speaker 2: as I heard that I had my ovaries, I was like, okay, ding, ding,
Speaker 2: I can have more biological children. So pretty much, once
Speaker 2: we got back down to maternity and I got out
Speaker 2: of ICU, they started talking to me about sarrogacy. Like
Speaker 2: the midwife started saying, when you're ready, we can talk
Speaker 2: to you about sarrogacy. We have policies at our hospital
Speaker 2: that you could birth here with the midwife.
Speaker 5: So they were very open and honest.
Speaker 2: It was maybe a little bit too soon, but I
Speaker 2: appreciate it because again they knew my wishes. I had
Speaker 2: made it very clear that I wanted to have more children.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I mean I appreciated the conversations.
Speaker 3: When they were talking to you, Did they tell you why,
Speaker 3: like what had happened?
Speaker 5: Yes?
Speaker 2: And no, So yes, we knew that i'd had at
Speaker 2: this massive bleed. But they ended up doing like an
Speaker 2: RCA report, which is just like a report of everything
Speaker 2: that went wrong, and we were able to do a
Speaker 2: debrief with the hospital and that was probably when we
Speaker 2: got more idea of exactly what went down and what happened.
Speaker 2: But basically, my uterus just didn't contract because there was
Speaker 2: just so much pressure and I'd been pushing for so long,
Speaker 2: and they think again that was because of Violet being posterior,
Speaker 2: and I just had a massive postpartum hemorrhage.
Speaker 1: So you've woken up and ice you, they've taken you
Speaker 1: back down. You know, you're with your Harvey, with baby.
Speaker 1: You've taken all this information and you're really thankful for
Speaker 1: the life saving surgery. You've got your baby. But was
Speaker 1: there a period of mourning or did that come kind
Speaker 1: of like at a later stage, like what was your
Speaker 1: I guess your mental state.
Speaker 2: Like behind closed door, I was a wreck, but I
Speaker 2: definitely can see now with hindsight, like my daughter was
Speaker 2: born in April twenty twenty one hindsight, I was definitely fawning.
Speaker 2: I definitely didn't want to be a pain. I didn't
Speaker 2: want to be a terrible patient. I think I just wanted.
Speaker 5: I wanted just to be a normal mum.
Speaker 2: But also, yeah, I definitely think I was fawning a
Speaker 2: little bit and a little bit later on, like there
Speaker 2: was just lots of appointments, lots of follow ups. I
Speaker 2: had to see GPS, and then I had to see
Speaker 2: I've got to call it. Like, there was just a
Speaker 2: lot of things happening. I definitely was a little bit
Speaker 2: worried that if I showed any weak not weakness, but
Speaker 2: this is just what I was thinking in my head.
Speaker 2: I don't want anyone to take away my baby, so
Speaker 2: I need to put my best foot forward and pretend
Speaker 2: like everything's okay.
Speaker 1: I think that's such a normal reaction because you've just
Speaker 1: like you've had your baby taken away already, you know,
Speaker 1: like you had that degree of separation from her. Can
Speaker 1: I just ask you, though, what was the recovery like,
Speaker 1: just because I'm just thinking you've had a Caesar, but
Speaker 1: then you've also had a hysterectomy.
Speaker 2: Correct, And I also had a stent placed in one
Speaker 2: of my urytors because when they did the hysterectomy, they
Speaker 2: caught my urrota in a suture, so I'd had a
Speaker 2: stent place, which meant that when I was six weeks
Speaker 2: postparted and they wanted me to have day surgery to
Speaker 2: have the stent removed. Oh wow, I mean Touchwood. I
Speaker 2: can laugh about it now. At Touchwood, everything was fine.
Speaker 2: My urrotor is fine, I can use the bathroom. It
Speaker 2: was just very traumatizing having to go back to the
Speaker 2: hospital so soon after, and I was again stressed about
Speaker 2: breastfeeding and having a general anesthetic and being away from
Speaker 2: my baby.
Speaker 5: But everything was okay.
Speaker 2: I've got a very my husband's very hands on obviously
Speaker 2: because I needed lots and lots of help, and I've
Speaker 2: got lots of family that lives very close by, so
Speaker 2: I have been really supported.
Speaker 5: But I could pick Violet up. That was my limit.
Speaker 2: So I was allowed to pick baby up, but basically
Speaker 2: I couldn't push the prem. I couldn't take the prem
Speaker 2: in and out of the car. So basically I did
Speaker 2: nothing for the first six weeks. I just stayed at
Speaker 2: home and stayed with Violet, and whilst my husband was home,
Speaker 2: we did go down to like the local.
Speaker 5: Coffee shop and have a coffee.
Speaker 2: But basically I just stayed in that baby bubble and
Speaker 2: I just stayed home where I felt really safe. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but I mean overall, now I've had lots of surgeries.
Speaker 2: My sea section, the first my sea section with the
Speaker 2: historic to me, it wasn't really that painful uncomfortable, definitely, yes,
Speaker 2: but by the time I have.
Speaker 1: A reference to a lot more invasive.
Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So, and I mean my sea section was a traditional
Speaker 2: sea section, so like hip to hip, whereas my uterus
Speaker 2: transplant was up and down, so it went from my belly.
Speaker 5: Button to my pelvis.
Speaker 2: And that was incredibly painful and incredibly hard because they
Speaker 2: cut through all of your muscle, so I had like
Speaker 2: no stomach muscles, whereas after my cesarean and my first systectomy,
Speaker 2: I felt weak. And I think, I mean, I assume
Speaker 2: you both remember that feeling of your tummy like contracting
Speaker 2: back after having like your baby growing in there. You
Speaker 2: have that really like jelly loose jelly sensation. So yeah,
Speaker 2: I had a little obviously that but that's very you know,
Speaker 2: normal postpartum jelly belly feeling.
Speaker 5: But yeah, it was just a bit slow and yeah,
Speaker 5: that easy.
Speaker 1: So then how long after because obviously you've talked about
Speaker 1: like lots of follow up, which of course it would
Speaker 1: be and then you've had to also have that day surgery.
Speaker 1: How long after Violet's birth did the opportunity to be
Speaker 1: in the uterus transplant clinical trial come up?
Speaker 2: So Violet was six months old and she had gone
Speaker 2: down for a sleep, and I had been just furiously
Speaker 2: researching my options. Both my mum and my sister in
Speaker 2: law had pretty much straightaway offered to be surrogates if
Speaker 2: and when I wanted to have more children. But after
Speaker 2: my birthing experience, I think I was just really worried
Speaker 2: about putting people that I love in that situation. The
Speaker 2: thought of losing my mum or my sister in law,
Speaker 2: I just thought it was too big of a risk.
Speaker 2: My sister in law had birth both my niece and
Speaker 2: my nephew like a champion. She's amazing birth just agrees
Speaker 2: with her. She had these really incredible birthing experiences. My
Speaker 2: mom was the same. She was very young, fit and healthy,
Speaker 2: and she had two vaginal births.
Speaker 5: Good on her.
Speaker 2: But so yeah, they both offered to be surrogates if
Speaker 2: and when we chose to have more children. But I
Speaker 2: just really really had this urge that I wanted to
Speaker 2: be pregnant again, even though I had no uterus, so
Speaker 2: I had nowhere to have that baby. I just thought
Speaker 2: to myself, like, we do heart transplants, we do lung transplants,
Speaker 2: Like why on Earth can't we do a uterus transplant?
Speaker 5: Like why can't I have the organ that was removed replaced?
Speaker 4: It was actually you that came up with the idea,
Speaker 4: is it them?
Speaker 5: Well?
Speaker 2: I jumped on the internet, as you do, and I
Speaker 2: was in a couple of Facebook groups, but nothing was
Speaker 2: proving fruitful. But I basically just found the website for
Speaker 2: the clinical trial. It looked old, it looked like it
Speaker 2: hadn't been updated. There wasn't any new information on there.
Speaker 2: And I just found an email address and that email
Speaker 2: address went to Yana Pittman. So doctor Jana Pittman. So
Speaker 2: I shot off an email. She replied pretty much straight
Speaker 2: away with the requirements to be accepted into the clinical trial.
Speaker 5: So I got off the phone.
Speaker 2: I rang my mum and I said, hey, Mom, like, hypothetically,
Speaker 2: if you could have a hysterectomy and I could have
Speaker 2: your uterus and have another baby, would you do it?
Speaker 5: And she said where?
Speaker 2: And I said Sydney, And she said, oh, okay, I'll
Speaker 2: talk to your dad, But yeah, that sounds fine, and
Speaker 2: I said, okay, bye, hung up from her.
Speaker 3: And Mary, God, how old is your mum or was
Speaker 3: your mum at the time?
Speaker 5: Fifty?
Speaker 4: She's a young mum.
Speaker 2: Yeah, my mom was in early twenties when she had
Speaker 2: me and was married and mum was yet. So my
Speaker 2: mum and I are really good friends, like we talk
Speaker 2: most mornings, and we were still talking about, you know,
Speaker 2: getting periods and stuff. So I knew Mom still got
Speaker 2: a period. I just needed to know if I could
Speaker 2: have her uterus.
Speaker 3: She still got a period of fifty that also, that
Speaker 3: poor woman. Isn't part of the thing about getting older
Speaker 3: that you don't get your period anymore?
Speaker 2: Well, she was perry, okay, but she was still getting
Speaker 2: a period, and that's all I really.
Speaker 5: Well, sorry, Mom, I'm.
Speaker 2: Talking about this is so transactional, but I mean it
Speaker 2: does really sound like I was just asking it out
Speaker 2: for lunch. But yes, I did ask her for an
Speaker 2: organ in like a two minute phone call while she
Speaker 2: was at work.
Speaker 1: You guys would have been talking since that you had
Speaker 1: your hysterectomy, and she would have known, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she knew my desires and she's already offered up parrogacy,
Speaker 2: so correct, So you're just asking, okay, Mom, but we
Speaker 2: just you.
Speaker 4: Know, you put it into me.
Speaker 3: Also, I think with people you love, you kind of
Speaker 3: can be a little bit more open with people like
Speaker 3: I literally just dropped into conversation one day when I
Speaker 3: was talking to my girlfriend on the phone, which was
Speaker 3: about her fertility stuff that she's going through. I was like, oh,
Speaker 3: and just so you know, you don't have to be
Speaker 3: weird about it or anything, but I've got lots of
Speaker 3: eggs if you'd like any.
Speaker 4: And she's kind of like, what, But I'm like, I
Speaker 4: don't know.
Speaker 3: With friends, you kind of and people you love that
Speaker 3: our family, you just can kind of be like by
Speaker 3: the way, you know.
Speaker 5: But Kelly you are.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't say we're super similar, but we're direct and correct.
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, no time to fuck around.
Speaker 2: There's no beating not with fertility. We do not have
Speaker 2: time to mic around.
Speaker 4: Oh my god, exactly.
Speaker 2: And especially because like you said, Mum and I had
Speaker 2: had been having these conversations, she knew how much I
Speaker 2: did want another child. I did want to have them
Speaker 2: in my mind close ish together. So to be a
Speaker 2: part of the clinical trial at the Royal women's You
Speaker 2: needed to bring a donor, so my mum was my donor.
Speaker 2: I'm the recipient. We obviously had to do lots of
Speaker 2: tests before we went to Sydney, but we did like
Speaker 2: blood tests, ultrasounds, like pretty i want to say, basic,
Speaker 2: pretty basic tests. The big big one that was we
Speaker 2: were all holding our breath was obviously the tissue matching.
Speaker 2: So because it's an organ transplant, my body needed to
Speaker 2: be able to accept mum's uterus and we are a
Speaker 2: blood type match. But just because your family like mother
Speaker 2: and daughter, doesn't mean you'll be tissue matches. But we
Speaker 2: were so once we got that tissue match result, I
Speaker 2: still didn't know how many people were also doing the
Speaker 2: same things we were. But in my head I was like,
Speaker 2: just as long as it happens, I'll be happy. And
Speaker 2: then it basically was just before Christmas twenty twenty three.
Speaker 2: I had a conversation with Yanner and she said, if
Speaker 2: you come to Sydney, and there was a few psychological
Speaker 2: appointments we all needed to go through, so me, my mum,
Speaker 2: my husband, and my dad because obviously it affects them
Speaker 2: as well, and being a clinical trial, they're collecting lots
Speaker 2: of information so this can obviously, hopefully one day go
Speaker 2: on to be an option for people for women. And yeah,
Speaker 2: we went to Sydney and we sat down with doctor
Speaker 2: Rebecca Dean's and she was head of the program, and
Speaker 2: she said, could you guys potentially be here on the
Speaker 2: tenth of January And this was like the week before Christmas.
Speaker 5: And I was like, oh my gosh.
Speaker 2: And you know, I had to obviously have that conversation
Speaker 2: with Mum because in our head we thought it was
Speaker 2: going to happen in March, and that was obviously bringing
Speaker 2: the timeline forward. But Mum basically said, the sooner you
Speaker 2: have this uterus transplant, the sooner you can.
Speaker 5: Have a baby. So yeah, let's let's do it.
Speaker 2: And that's when I basically realized we were going to
Speaker 2: be the first in Australia.
Speaker 4: So it was a clinical trial in Australia.
Speaker 3: You guys were going to be the first, but it
Speaker 3: was it had been done successfully in other countries, correct.
Speaker 2: So we follow the protocol we follow is from Sweden
Speaker 2: from doctor MATTX Branstrom. He is a Swedish gynocologist and
Speaker 2: he was in Australia in South Australia actually about fifteen
Speaker 2: years ago, and he was finishing some of his study
Speaker 2: here and he was working with women in oncology, so
Speaker 2: women that were losing their uteruses due to cancer treatment.
Speaker 2: And it was actually a young woman, I hope I'm
Speaker 2: not mincing his story, but it was a young woman
Speaker 2: I think she was really early twenties who was going
Speaker 2: to have to have a hysterectomy and she said to him,
Speaker 2: why can't I have a uterus transplant? And he basically
Speaker 2: laughed in her face and said, we don't do uterus transplants.
Speaker 2: And then when he finished up his study in Australia,
Speaker 2: he went back to Sweden and he just had been
Speaker 2: mulling it over and was like, actually, why can't we
Speaker 2: do transplants uterus transplants. So he basically started his planning
Speaker 2: and basically got it off the ground. So he did
Speaker 2: animal studies and the ethical approval and the year they
Speaker 2: actually just celebrated, so the first baby ever born with
Speaker 2: a uterus transplant was done in Sweden and that little
Speaker 2: boy turned ten like a month ago.
Speaker 4: Oh wow.
Speaker 2: So doctor Matt Branstrom actually came back to Australia and
Speaker 2: did my surgery. The doctors that the Royal filmed it
Speaker 2: so that they could then go on to use that
Speaker 2: as like a learning video.
Speaker 3: That is like how incredible that you and your family
Speaker 3: are part of history history you are medical marvels and
Speaker 3: like history is going to be written on this and
Speaker 3: like science books and like it's so cool.
Speaker 2: It's incredibly cool, especially because if the women in Sweden
Speaker 2: didn't put their hands up to be the first, then
Speaker 2: I wouldn't be in this position as well. So those
Speaker 2: women paved the way for me to be able to
Speaker 2: then have a clinical trial in Australia. So when people
Speaker 2: ask me, like you were the first, it's so risky.
Speaker 2: You know, they told you it might not work, and
Speaker 2: if it didn't work, then you know, you wouldn't have
Speaker 2: your mum's uterus to then have, you know, for syrucusy
Speaker 2: and things like that. But in my mind, I was like,
Speaker 2: if we don't try, like it's always a no, Like
Speaker 2: I have to give this a go. And I really
Speaker 2: did want to carry another pregnancy. I wanted to carry
Speaker 2: another baby in my belly.
Speaker 3: What were the chances of it being successful? Like did
Speaker 3: they give you the odds?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 2: They did, I don't really remember them now, but basically
Speaker 2: they were just worried obviously about bleeding again. So after
Speaker 2: all the issues with bleeding, we did lots and lots
Speaker 2: of tests and basically they came up with no, I
Speaker 2: don't have any bleeding disorders, because obviously they were a
Speaker 2: little bit worried, but they took my history into consideration
Speaker 2: and they just were so meticulously planned, and they did
Speaker 2: a run through the day before with all the doctors
Speaker 2: and surgeons and instruments because obviously they needed special instruments.
Speaker 2: And it's incredible it was still to this day, doctor
Speaker 2: Matt's Branstrom actually came back from Sweden when Henry was born.
Speaker 2: I'm jumping ahead, but yeah, so it's incredible that he
Speaker 2: was there on the day like he performed my surgery,
Speaker 2: and then he also was there the day that Henry
Speaker 2: was born.
Speaker 3: So the day of the surgery, walk us through, how
Speaker 3: are you feeling, how was your mom feeling?
Speaker 4: What was the process?
Speaker 2: Yep, So we went to hospital the day prior, so
Speaker 2: we had some blood tests and some final things to do.
Speaker 2: We stayed in the hospital overnight and then we woke
Speaker 2: up that morning and Mom and I were staying in
Speaker 2: a room together.
Speaker 5: So that was so lovely. Loved that our beds were
Speaker 5: like opposite.
Speaker 2: Each other, so we could just smile at each other
Speaker 2: from like across our beds.
Speaker 1: I would have been so comforting to be doing it together.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, I couldn't have done it without my mom.
Speaker 2: I just couldn't. Like, I love my husband and I
Speaker 2: love my dad, and they're amazing men, but I couldn't
Speaker 2: have done this without my mom.
Speaker 1: She sounds amazing.
Speaker 2: She knew, yeah, how much I wanted to be a
Speaker 2: mum and how much I wanted to give Violet a sibling,
Speaker 2: and she made that sacrifice, and yeah, she had the hysterectomy.
Speaker 2: So the morning of we wake up, they wake us
Speaker 2: up at five point thirty. I was allowed to have
Speaker 2: a light breakfast. Mum wasn't allowed to have anything because
Speaker 2: she was going into surgery straight away. But when I
Speaker 2: woke up, I immediately jumped out of bed and I
Speaker 2: jumped in her bed, and we just laid in bed
Speaker 2: in our hospital beds together, and then one of the
Speaker 2: beautiful nurses came in and said, okay, Michelle, go have
Speaker 2: a shower, wash yourself down with this very special soap.
Speaker 2: And then Mum came out we put the gown, the
Speaker 2: surgical gown on her, and then Yanna came up and said,
Speaker 2: we're ready for you. We're ready for your mum. So
Speaker 2: Mum went down first, which was so hard. So they
Speaker 2: wanted to obviously be able to get Mum's uterus out
Speaker 2: and then they flushed it before they put me under
Speaker 2: general anesthetic because obviously her surgery in itself was going
Speaker 2: to take a long time. So I was awake and
Speaker 2: just waiting for mum, like waiting for news. So Mum
Speaker 2: went in at about six thirty seven clock in the morning,
Speaker 2: and then I didn't go in on a general anesthetic
Speaker 2: until just after lunch, and then I woke up seven
Speaker 2: six seven hours later in recovery.
Speaker 1: Had you heard anything about your mum before you went under?
Speaker 2: Yes, So basically they came up and I can't remember
Speaker 2: if it was Yana that told us, but someone was
Speaker 2: basically like, they're flushing the uterus. Your mom's barely bled,
Speaker 2: like she's doing so wonderfully. Everything's looking great. We're really
Speaker 2: really happy with how the surgery's going. The surgeons are
Speaker 2: having a break and you're going to get put under
Speaker 2: general anesthetics. So they took me down, I went into
Speaker 2: the anesthetic. They had all the nurses there were all
Speaker 2: chatting away. They put me to sleep, and then we
Speaker 2: got wheeled next to each other and then they basically
Speaker 2: start my surgery from there.
Speaker 1: Oh wow, that is just so incredible. I love that
Speaker 1: you're a detailed person because I want to know every
Speaker 1: single detail.
Speaker 2: Well, so what they did, so a normal hystorict me
Speaker 2: is just they take your uterus basically, and it just depends,
Speaker 2: like sometimes they take the cervix, sometimes they take the
Speaker 2: filopian tubes.
Speaker 5: Generally, they tried to.
Speaker 2: Leave the ovaries to stop you from going into medical menopause.
Speaker 2: So it really just depends why you're having a hysterectomy.
Speaker 2: So with Mum, they left one ovary for her and
Speaker 2: they took the filopian tubes. They took her uterus and
Speaker 2: her cervix, so I actually had Mum's uterus en cervix.
Speaker 5: Oh wow.
Speaker 2: But they had to remove my cervix. So when I
Speaker 2: had my surgery, I just had the uterus removed. So
Speaker 2: when I had my uterus transplant, they removed my cervix
Speaker 2: as well.
Speaker 5: But I mean it's a much in a muchness. It
Speaker 5: didn't matter.
Speaker 1: And because your mum kept one of her ovaries. It
Speaker 1: meant that she wasn't going like, it wasn't speeding up her.
Speaker 2: Correct so she was ari in perimenopause. So I'll go
Speaker 2: back to a tiny bit. I wake up in recovery.
Speaker 2: I look at Mum. She gives me a thumbs up,
Speaker 2: closes her eyes, and basically doctor Matt Branstrom and doctor
Speaker 2: Rebecca Dean's are at the end of my bed and
Speaker 2: they're just talking away and I'm thinking, oh my gosh,
Speaker 2: I'm so tired, Like, just tell me it worked. And
Speaker 2: doctor Dean's was like, oh, yes, you have a uterress
Speaker 2: it worked. And then I basically just closed my eyes.
Speaker 2: I was like, I am so tired. And by this
Speaker 2: stage it's like midnight. And then eventually they roll us
Speaker 2: back down to our rooms and Mum and I are
Speaker 2: in our rooms.
Speaker 5: Together and I see my husband.
Speaker 2: I give my husband a kiss, my dad gives Mom
Speaker 2: a kiss, and then we're like, yep, see in the morning.
Speaker 2: But yeah, it was successful. I stayed in hospital for
Speaker 2: seven days and then I was discharged, but Mum's stayed
Speaker 2: in hospital for ten days. Mom's bladder took a long
Speaker 2: time to wake up, so when they're doing a hystereipty,
Speaker 2: like everything's very compact down in your pelvest, and they
Speaker 2: did have to move around the bladder, so Mum's bladder
Speaker 2: was asleep, that's what they call it. Basically, her blooder
Speaker 2: wasn't working, her bladder forgot to do what it needed
Speaker 2: to do. So Mum's stayed in hospital a little bit
Speaker 2: and then she did go on to have issues with
Speaker 2: her bladder. But at the twelve month mark, all of
Speaker 2: a sudden, Mom just started waking up in the morning.
Speaker 2: So the issue Mum was having was she didn't have
Speaker 2: the feeling that she needed to go, so she couldn't
Speaker 2: tell when she needed to go. If she said an
Speaker 2: alarm on her phone for every three hours, obviously she
Speaker 2: was like, Oh, I need to go to the toilet.
Speaker 2: But if she didn't have that alarm, she did wasn't
Speaker 2: getting the sensation.
Speaker 5: That she needed to wei right.
Speaker 2: But literally twelve months, almost to the week, Mom started
Speaker 2: getting that sensation back, so she'd wake up in the
Speaker 2: morning and she said she'd just be like, oh, I
Speaker 2: need to use the bathroom, and then she actually didn't
Speaker 2: tell me for a couple of days, and then one
Speaker 2: morning Mum was driving to work. That's usually when she
Speaker 2: calls me, and she said to me, I didn't want
Speaker 2: to tell you, and I thought she was going to
Speaker 2: tell me something I don't know, something bad, and I
Speaker 2: was like yeah, and she was like, I've got the
Speaker 2: sensation back. I've been going to the bathroom in the
Speaker 2: morning all by myself. And I was like, why didn't
Speaker 2: you tell me like a week ago, and she said,
Speaker 2: I just couldn't believe it. She's like, I just wanted
Speaker 2: it to happen for a couple of days in a
Speaker 2: row like I wanted to. And she's like, I didn't
Speaker 2: want to tell you, and then it not be consistent.
Speaker 2: And I was like, oh, that's so good, because my
Speaker 2: mum is very fit and healthy and she goes to
Speaker 2: the gym and she loves to run, and it wasn't
Speaker 2: a big issue. But it was just one of those
Speaker 2: really annoying things from the surgery. And then obviously I
Speaker 2: felt guilty that mum was adding issues with her blood
Speaker 2: aer So the fact that things have got better and
Speaker 2: have improved obviously took a weight off my shoulders.
Speaker 1: Oh, of course, the same reason why you didn't want
Speaker 1: them to be necessarily be your surrogate because of any risk. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the surgery is perfect, You're all good, and then it's like,
Speaker 1: but mum's just got this one thing, Like, yeah, that's
Speaker 1: going to affect kind of how you feel.
Speaker 2: And obviously you want to be really feel really grateful
Speaker 2: because lucky me, like thirty two days post off, I
Speaker 2: got a period.
Speaker 1: Oh my god.
Speaker 5: So the uterus was doing its job.
Speaker 4: It was credible.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it said, hey, I'm a uterus, I need.
Speaker 4: To wild your body just.
Speaker 5: Like it was bad. Yeah, it wanted to be there.
Speaker 3: And because you know, with all transplants there's risk of rejection,
Speaker 3: so what correct is it with a uterus and was there?
Speaker 3: You know, don't you have to take like anti rejection
Speaker 3: drugs and that sort of thing.
Speaker 5: Oh, boy, yes you do.
Speaker 2: I basically had like a pill planner the size of
Speaker 2: like an A four piece.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, you were like an elderly person with
Speaker 3: your little web ball.
Speaker 5: Definitely.
Speaker 2: I had it was broken up four times a day,
Speaker 2: and I had multiple anti rejection drugs, steroids, painkillers, anti
Speaker 2: coagulants like blood clotting. I was pretty much on everything.
Speaker 2: But obviously in the early days you're on the really
Speaker 2: hard hitting stuff. But you know, they did slowly wean
Speaker 2: me off some of the harder anti rejection drugs so
Speaker 2: that I was able to do an embryo transfer.
Speaker 5: So originally, when I.
Speaker 2: Was talking to the doctors and we were talking about
Speaker 2: embryo transfer in Sweden, they were doing them six months
Speaker 2: post transplant. But luckily when I had my surgery, they
Speaker 2: had already moved to in Sweden doing them three months
Speaker 2: post period. So the surgery was January the eleventh, and
Speaker 2: then I got my period thirty one days later, and
Speaker 2: then three months after that we did an embryo transfer.
Speaker 1: You just don't think that that is going to be
Speaker 1: the timeline, like.
Speaker 5: It's so quick.
Speaker 1: I was so quick.
Speaker 2: Everything Touchwood had been going really well with my recovery,
Speaker 2: so I also was just very I didn't want to
Speaker 2: get my hopes up too much. Like, so we had
Speaker 2: to fly down for the embryo transfer, my husband and I,
Speaker 2: and he was sort of a bit guarded as well.
Speaker 2: He was like, your body's just been through so much.
Speaker 2: Like we had six embryos in the freezer, and we
Speaker 2: did the first embryo transfer obviously, and my husband was like,
Speaker 2: we'll just see how it goes, Like your body's been
Speaker 2: through so much it would be totally understandable if this
Speaker 2: just doesn't work. The first time, they gave us, you know,
Speaker 2: fifty to fifty the expectations, so I was like, okay,
Speaker 2: I did go home and put my feet in the
Speaker 2: air and eat salty fries because there are a few
Speaker 2: Little Wives tales, and just specifically told not to do
Speaker 2: urine tests because I'd been having injections that would then
Speaker 2: trick my body so it would come up on a
Speaker 2: pea stick. Basically that I had HATECG. So we were
Speaker 2: told not to do the test, but obviously I didn't listen.
Speaker 2: So I was doing a test every day to see
Speaker 2: one of the drugs get out of my system. And
Speaker 2: then basically the day that I got the pregnancy test
Speaker 2: that had no line on it, just one line, the
Speaker 2: control line, I was like, okay, that drugs out of
Speaker 2: my body. And then I just kept doing we tests
Speaker 2: every morning and then that second line started to come back.
Speaker 5: Oh my god, first embryo.
Speaker 3: Sorry, I feel like I've missed something. So how old
Speaker 3: were you at the time. I was thirty thirty, okay,
Speaker 3: And why were you doing the transfers and where did
Speaker 3: the embryos come from.
Speaker 2: So before we were accepted into the clinical trial, even
Speaker 2: if we did sarrogacy, we would have to create embryos anyway,
Speaker 2: So we used my eggs and my husband's perm to
Speaker 2: create embryos. We did that at the Royal Women's with
Speaker 2: doctor Rebecca Dean's and basically she said, look, if you're
Speaker 2: not accepted into the clinical trial, you can transfer them
Speaker 2: somewhere else and you can use them with the surrogate.
Speaker 2: But if you are accepted into the clinical trial, you
Speaker 2: have them here ready to go. So basically you couldn't
Speaker 2: have the uter's transplant if you didn't have the embryos
Speaker 2: ready to go. Okay, because obviously they don't want to
Speaker 2: do the you don't want to be on the anti
Speaker 2: rejection drugs for any longer than you have to. So
Speaker 2: basically everything, all your ducks have to be in a
Speaker 2: row before the transplant.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so everything goes swimmingly.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Do they have to do the embers or are you
Speaker 3: able to to try to conceive?
Speaker 5: Oh? Naturally? Do you mean?
Speaker 3: I don't know how to ask this, but you know,
Speaker 3: like the old fashion way, I wish I would have
Speaker 3: loved that because obviously all the medical stuff really takes
Speaker 3: the romance out.
Speaker 2: I mean, when you're trying sometimes there really isn't that
Speaker 2: much romance.
Speaker 5: No, do it the old fashion way anyway. But no,
Speaker 5: it wasn't connected.
Speaker 2: There was no way my ovaries weren't connected to my uterus.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, okay, so there's no fallopian tubes connecting them
Speaker 2: to the uterus, so there was no way for that
Speaker 2: egg to get to where it needed to go.
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, right, And then okay, so you've you've found out,
Speaker 1: but you've done a little bit of a naughty because
Speaker 1: you've been testing and you're not like no, So then
Speaker 1: how long before they called you back? Like you do?
Speaker 5: A blood test on day fourteen.
Speaker 1: And that confirmed it, like officially confirmed.
Speaker 2: And then my doctor called me. My husband was at home.
Speaker 2: I planned for him because they had rang me and said, look,
Speaker 2: we need to make an appointment for doctor Deans to
Speaker 2: call you with the blood test results. I'd made my
Speaker 2: husband come home, and as soon as I got the
Speaker 2: good news, I think I like hurried her off the
Speaker 2: phone because I just wanted to call my mom. Yeah
Speaker 2: it was I basically shouted at Nick, I'm like, oh,
Speaker 2: your mom, because I wanted to tell them at the
Speaker 2: same time. So my husband's like, oh, okay, so yeah,
Speaker 2: and then I was like, quick, mom, yes I'm pregnant.
Speaker 5: Quick tell dad, ring dad. And I just wanted to share.
Speaker 2: The news because everyone had been on the journey with us,
Speaker 2: and like, I was just so excited. And again, you're
Speaker 2: still waiting with baited breath everyone that's going through the
Speaker 2: fertility trenches, whether that's you know, secondary in fertility, like
Speaker 2: you realize sometimes that there's never a time you can
Speaker 2: really exhale. But no, I was like, Okay, we've got
Speaker 2: to this part, like the eggs where it needs to
Speaker 2: be it's implanted. The blood test is saying I'm pregnant,
Speaker 2: I'm pregnant. Okay, I'm treating myself as pregnant. So I
Speaker 2: think I was like, yeah, they say like five weeks
Speaker 2: pregnant or something.
Speaker 1: And then what was the pregnancy like then, like you've
Speaker 1: you know, you're letting yourself kind of enjoy that moment
Speaker 1: of being pregnant. But I'm imagining like that in my
Speaker 1: experience with this pregnancy that I have. Now, after my
Speaker 1: first loss, I'd take nothing for granted, so one hundred percent.
Speaker 5: So I mean I was being watched like a hawk.
Speaker 2: I was really lucky that I had a team in
Speaker 2: Coughs and a team in Sydney, and once I got
Speaker 2: to twelve weeks, I basically saw the team in Sydney
Speaker 2: once a month, but then the alternate week I would
Speaker 2: see my Coughs team. So I had a gynecologist and
Speaker 2: a midwife in Coughs as well, and a midwife that
Speaker 2: ended up looking after me for Henry's so my second pregnancy,
Speaker 2: Henry was one of the midwives that looked after me
Speaker 2: with Violet. So that was really like felt full circle
Speaker 2: and just really nice that she knew my family and
Speaker 2: my husband spent a lot of time with her when
Speaker 2: I was in ICU and stuff, so he really loved
Speaker 2: her as well. Shout out to Jen if you're listening.
Speaker 2: She was amazing. So my husband was like, oh, I
Speaker 2: just have so much confidence knowing that Jen is there
Speaker 2: as well.
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's just annuity, Okay, someone that knows your
Speaker 1: whole story and yeah, joining halfway through, yeah.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and just again with your second, like you are
Speaker 5: really busy because you've got a first.
Speaker 2: You know, some people are still working. I was still
Speaker 2: working three days a week and trying to travel to Sydney,
Speaker 2: and I was having blood tests as well for my
Speaker 2: levels for my ANI rejection drugs, like this is just
Speaker 2: all part and parcel of the clinical trial. So I
Speaker 2: was definitely trying to see the glimmers, like trying to
Speaker 2: find the silver linings to things like trying to and
Speaker 2: definitely not taking any week. For granted, I was taking
Speaker 2: like with Violet, I think I took like a few
Speaker 2: bump photos, but I you know, I definitely wasn't taking
Speaker 2: them every week. With Henry, I was taking them every
Speaker 2: single week. I was sending a picture to my mom
Speaker 2: being like I'm thirteen weeks, I'm fourteen weeks, I'm you know,
Speaker 2: and I was had my hand on my tummy like
Speaker 2: I don't know, I just didn't take it, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: And just wanting my daughter to be a part of
Speaker 2: that journey as well and getting her included. And my
Speaker 2: pregnancy was really similar to that of violets. I had
Speaker 2: a little bit of morning sickness in the beginning. It
Speaker 2: was like halfway I think I was like twenty weeks
Speaker 2: and I stopped performiting. But no, it was really similar.
Speaker 2: I felt big and huge and pregnant.
Speaker 4: How old. Was Violet through this?
Speaker 5: She was too.
Speaker 3: Okay, okay, And how does she sort of go with like,
Speaker 3: you know, obviously you were sort of traveling a lot
Speaker 3: and with the surgeries and that sort of thing. I mean,
Speaker 3: I guess she just didn't know any better, but like,
Speaker 3: how did you explain different things to a two year old?
Speaker 2: So basically, just as much as age appropriate as we could. Yeah,
Speaker 2: we explained, like nanny gave mummy something because mummy couldn't
Speaker 2: have a baby, so you need to be careful of
Speaker 2: mummy's tummy. Like, and I've got a big scar, like
Speaker 2: I said, so from my bellydding down to my and
Speaker 2: we together.
Speaker 5: So she's like, that's where the baby would come out
Speaker 5: of your head.
Speaker 2: So and she points to the other scar and she's
Speaker 2: like that's where I came on at all, you know.
Speaker 2: So and basically she would come to my bod test appointments.
Speaker 2: We involved her a lot, so she was really used
Speaker 2: to like, yeah, mummy needs to go to the doctor.
Speaker 2: The doctor looks at mummy's belly, and my midwife would
Speaker 2: come to my home so she would use the doppler
Speaker 2: and let Violet hold the doppler and be like that's
Speaker 2: your brother's like your baby's heartbeat, and and Violet's great now.
Speaker 2: She always says like, oh, I want to be a doctor,
Speaker 2: and she has a little stethoscope and she's the only
Speaker 2: thing that I will say that really took a toll
Speaker 2: was because I was on the anti rejection drugs. I
Speaker 2: was really immunosuppressed, so I was very susceptible at picking
Speaker 2: up all of Violet's daycare germs that she was bringing home.
Speaker 2: And there were a couple of times that I got
Speaker 2: really on well, very quickly, and that's just what happens
Speaker 2: when you're immunosuppressed. And I was rushed to hospital. So
Speaker 2: there was a few times that if Violet didn't understand
Speaker 2: why Mummy just you'd wake up in the morning and
Speaker 2: Mummy wasn't there because I'd been rushed to hospital. Especially
Speaker 2: also those Sydney days that I would be going to
Speaker 2: my appointments, I often would fly really early in the morning,
Speaker 2: like six point thirty, and then I wouldn't get back
Speaker 2: until eight o'clock that night, and so Violet would already
Speaker 2: be in bed and she didn't enjoy those days just
Speaker 2: because Mummy was obviously away, Like the whole day she
Speaker 2: was yeah, and she but the next day she'd understand.
Speaker 2: I'd be like, oh, Mummy went to see the doctor,
Speaker 2: and I would be trying to take a few photos
Speaker 2: of the airport and bring her home a little surprise
Speaker 2: every now and then, And even the surprises like didn't
Speaker 2: even have to be anything special, Like sometimes I'd just
Speaker 2: give her my plane ticket and be like this was
Speaker 2: Mummy's plane ticket, Like yeah, yeah, so just yeah, trying
Speaker 2: to explain and the best you can.
Speaker 3: All of these specialists and all of these flights and
Speaker 3: everything that all adds up. Sorry to talk about money,
Speaker 3: but like anyone playing along at home is going to
Speaker 3: be like this sounds like a very expensive process. So
Speaker 3: is anything covered by private health? Is much covered by
Speaker 3: Medicare Like.
Speaker 5: No to private health.
Speaker 2: Sorry, I do have hospital cover, so a tiny little bit,
Speaker 2: but basically the actual surgery because it was part of
Speaker 2: the clinical trial, I wasn't builed for. Okay, medications I cover,
Speaker 2: so all the IVF stuff or the anti rejection stuff.
Speaker 2: Most of my appointments in coughs because I was high risk,
Speaker 2: were built with Medicare, like the ultrasounds and things like that.
Speaker 2: There's also a really wonderful charity that works alongside the
Speaker 2: Royal Women's that could help me out sometimes when I
Speaker 2: needed help. So look, it's a little bit of everything.
Speaker 5: Yeah. Also, yeah it does add up.
Speaker 2: But also doing any sort of fertility treatment is really expensive,
Speaker 2: so you sort of expect it, and I think when
Speaker 2: it's for another baby, you just I don't want to say,
Speaker 2: turn a blind eye, but you're like, it's worth it.
Speaker 5: It is what it is.
Speaker 3: And yeah, it's not money that you're going to regret spending,
Speaker 3: is it correct?
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I mean touch wood again, I was having
Speaker 2: very good outcomes, so yeah, that's very different to someone.
Speaker 4: That's you know, how defeating it would be when something is.
Speaker 2: Five embryo transfers, ten embryo transfers, like I was very,
Speaker 2: very very lucky.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and okay, so can we move on to Henry's birth.
Speaker 3: I want to hear about it, like but and also
Speaker 3: were you terrified because after Violet's birth you must have
Speaker 3: did you have to do like a lot of work
Speaker 3: preparing yourself mentally?
Speaker 2: Yes, For a period of time whilst I was pregnant,
Speaker 2: I just was like too high basket, let's not think
Speaker 2: about it. But then it got to the point where Obviously,
Speaker 2: my specialists in Sydney, they both Doctor Shanned and Doctor Lines,
Speaker 2: were ready to talk about it and like, but that
Speaker 2: was really good for me.
Speaker 5: I like information. I like being told.
Speaker 2: I think that's also another reason I like to share
Speaker 2: my story about violence birth and the hysterectomy is because
Speaker 2: leading up to violence Bath, I felt like I had
Speaker 2: done so much preparation. I'd done hypno birthing. I had
Speaker 2: bought all the things, drank all the stuff done, all
Speaker 2: the walking done, all the stretching, like listen to all
Speaker 2: the podcasts in the world. I thought I knew everything
Speaker 2: that could happen. And then to wake up and have
Speaker 2: had a hysterect to me, I was like, no one
Speaker 2: told me about that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I didn't hear that one.
Speaker 2: And obviously for some people they prefer less information, but yeah,
Speaker 2: for me, definitely, I like to be really informed. So
Speaker 2: when my team started talking to me about what the
Speaker 2: birth would be like, it was a plants arian. It
Speaker 2: has to be a plants arian at thirty seven weeks,
Speaker 2: just so not to put pressure on the uterus, because
Speaker 2: obviously we're trying to avoid uterine rupture and that can
Speaker 2: happen after transplants and they basically are like, you are
Speaker 2: not going past thirty seven weeks, but also people do
Speaker 2: go early. So from thirty four weeks I moved from
Speaker 2: my home to Sydney so I could be really close
Speaker 2: to the hospital.
Speaker 5: I was walking distance. Everyone was going over me with
Speaker 5: a fine tooth comb.
Speaker 2: So being a part of the clinical trial, I also
Speaker 2: had access to appointments to look after my mental health
Speaker 2: as well, and they were checking in and just everyone
Speaker 2: really understood where I was coming from that I'd had
Speaker 2: a hysterectomy. And I also requested for my mum to
Speaker 2: be in there for the birth. So not only did
Speaker 2: I have my husband there holding my hand during Henry's birth,
Speaker 2: but Mum was gowned up and in the anesthetic bay,
Speaker 2: and then once Henry was brought up and out of
Speaker 2: the curtain that he was given to the specialist pediatricians
Speaker 2: and went with my husband, But my mum got to
Speaker 2: come over and hold my hand while they was selling
Speaker 2: me up, and that was the bit I was really
Speaker 2: really scared about anyway, So it was really nice having
Speaker 2: I mean I knew everyone in that room, but it
Speaker 2: was really nice having my mom there to hold my hand.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's so incredible and like you can tell him
Speaker 3: you and him grew in the same womb.
Speaker 5: Yeah, Me, my brother and Henry all grew in the
Speaker 5: same womb.
Speaker 4: That's so cool.
Speaker 2: And it was just a beautiful experience. Like honestly, my
Speaker 2: mum and my husband and I walked to the hospital
Speaker 2: the morning of my plan ses arian, I wasn't allowed
Speaker 2: to coffee, but they were. I was a bit I
Speaker 2: wasn't very happy about that because I loved my first
Speaker 2: coffee of the morning.
Speaker 5: But yeah, it was just so lovely, Like I walked
Speaker 5: in and everyone was so excited because they knew we
Speaker 5: were meeting my baby.
Speaker 2: And I don't know if that's just the difference between
Speaker 2: an emergencies is arian.
Speaker 3: Everyone I know that's had an elective the second time
Speaker 3: around has been like, why was it such a nice experience?
Speaker 5: Like so it was.
Speaker 2: It went really really well. I barely lost any well
Speaker 2: I had. I lost three or four leaders to me,
Speaker 2: I felt great, Like they was saying, you know, how
Speaker 2: are you feeling? You know, And I had no symptoms
Speaker 2: from the blood loss, but.
Speaker 3: That's still a lot of blood to lose, Like I know,
Speaker 3: but I know it's not eleven.
Speaker 4: But like did they say, why you bleed so much?
Speaker 2: Like again, because they were checking everything out. Okay, so
Speaker 2: they opened me up and down because they wanted to
Speaker 2: and to just close all those layers. And because yeah
Speaker 2: it was instead of a cross ways instead of your
Speaker 2: bikini line. They did that one the same way they
Speaker 2: did the uterus transplant, so that one was up and down.
Speaker 3: So that was that's a big area to be awake
Speaker 3: for as well, though like yeah, it's.
Speaker 5: It's a lot of rummaging. But again in comparison, it
Speaker 5: was it's so gross. I was really.
Speaker 2: Lucky because Yanna took my phone and she filmed him
Speaker 2: coming out. I've got this beautiful video of him like
Speaker 2: coming out of my tummy. I made the comment that
Speaker 2: I didn't get to see my placenta with Violet. She
Speaker 2: made it a thing of like taking a photo of
Speaker 2: Henry's placenta, And yeah, I was just so lucky, Like
Speaker 2: not only did I have my husband and my my mom,
Speaker 2: but I had like my amazing team with me and
Speaker 2: Yana taking photos. And then when I went into recovery,
Speaker 2: like I got to see my dad there and then
Speaker 2: like it was just straight away.
Speaker 5: Soon as we got into recovery.
Speaker 2: Mum said to me that went really really well, and
Speaker 2: I said, yeah, yeah, it did. And she said, you
Speaker 2: want to have another baby, don't you.
Speaker 4: Oh.
Speaker 5: I was like, yes, yes, I do.
Speaker 1: It chills because that was going to be my next question.
Speaker 1: It's like, how could you not want to do it
Speaker 1: all over again when it was such a beautiful experience.
Speaker 2: Well, I actually am three months post second history to me,
Speaker 2: So when you're part of the clinical trial, they say
Speaker 2: to you two live birds or five years. That's the
Speaker 2: limit on how long you can have the uterus, right,
Speaker 2: because obviously they want to get you off the anti
Speaker 2: rejection drug, so I can't just keep the uterus like
Speaker 2: I would have loved to have just kept it.
Speaker 5: But those anti rejection drugs suck, so obviously I wanted
Speaker 5: to get off those.
Speaker 2: But basically part of that planning for the land cesarian
Speaker 2: of Henry, they said, do you want to have a hysterectomy?
Speaker 5: At that stage, you'll stay awake, we'll do the cesarean.
Speaker 2: Basically Henry will be born and then we would knock
Speaker 2: you out and do the hysterectomy. But I was still
Speaker 2: very unsure because I've already got another child.
Speaker 5: As well.
Speaker 2: If you had asked Kirsty whilst I was pregnant with
Speaker 2: Violet how many kids I wanted, I always said three.
Speaker 2: My husband's got a brother and a sister. It's just
Speaker 2: my brother and I and were thick as thieves. But
Speaker 2: I always begged my mum for a sister. And I
Speaker 2: don't know, I just always grew up thinking I would
Speaker 2: have three kids. So, you know, before the uterus transplant,
Speaker 2: I was like, if I get the chance, I will
Speaker 2: have two more children, and Violet will have two more siblings.
Speaker 2: But once going through that and realizing how lucky we
Speaker 2: were and how touch would we didn't really have any hiccups.
Speaker 2: Like I was very very lucky, like Henry was very healthy.
Speaker 2: I did get gestational diabetes, but that was really controlled
Speaker 2: with insulin with the needle, So I don't know, I
Speaker 2: just felt like I had had such a good experience anyway,
Speaker 2: So basically they said, don't make any decisions, we'll just
Speaker 2: have a chat about this in six months time. And
Speaker 2: then when that came up, by that stage, so three
Speaker 2: months postpardon, I started bleeding and then it just never stopped.
Speaker 2: I was in organ rejection. So they were doing biopsies
Speaker 2: of my uterus, and basically they said, nope, you'reine rejection.
Speaker 2: So we think maybe some of the amniotic fluid from
Speaker 2: Henry got into my uterus and then it started attacking
Speaker 2: my uterus. Said hey, this isn't the right thing. And
Speaker 2: so my body started to attack the uterus and I
Speaker 2: had some treatment to treat the rejection, but it was
Speaker 2: making me really, really sick, and I was having to
Speaker 2: be in hospital, away from my baby and from Violet.
Speaker 2: And we ended up as a family making decision that
Speaker 2: you know, we had two beautiful, healthy children, and you know,
Speaker 2: touch Wood, I hadn't had too many hiccups and too
Speaker 2: many complications, and that I was ready to have that
Speaker 2: second hysterectomy.
Speaker 3: So months post his diectomy. Now, yeah, and how are
Speaker 3: you feeling great?
Speaker 4: I feel, my God that I'm so good.
Speaker 5: I'm weaning off mine.
Speaker 4: You've got all the drugs out of your system.
Speaker 2: Not quite, so I'm still weaning. You've got to do
Speaker 2: that slowly because obviously I had so many my Siah,
Speaker 2: I'm weaning off the steroids really slowly. But Touchwood, in
Speaker 2: the new year, I will be drug free. I will
Speaker 2: be anti rejection, drug free.
Speaker 3: That's incredible, and you've got your two beautiful babies and
Speaker 3: you've made history.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and hopefully so as far as I know, there's
Speaker 2: been three other uterus transplants. Now I only know the
Speaker 2: lady that went second. So the lady that went second,
Speaker 2: she has a baby girl named Rose. So there's been
Speaker 2: one baby boy and one baby girl born in Australia
Speaker 2: from uterus transplant.
Speaker 1: It's really cool and I'm just isn't science amazing? It's amazing.
Speaker 5: And women's bodies of.
Speaker 1: Course, I mean, yeah, it goes without saying powerhouse, it does.
Speaker 5: Here we are.
Speaker 1: But I just love that perspective that you had and
Speaker 1: that you could say goodbye to that second uterus and
Speaker 1: just be like, no, we've done our dash. This is
Speaker 1: what we need, like our families complete.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and look, I don't know if I can definitely
Speaker 2: definitely say yes, our family is complete, but this part
Speaker 2: of our our family making journey, this part is closed.
Speaker 5: My body. I've been through a lot and I've had enough.
Speaker 2: You know, in the future, you know, we may look
Speaker 2: at something else, but at the moment, we are content.
Speaker 2: And I am just so grateful for the opportunity from
Speaker 2: the Royal Women's and from all the people that all
Speaker 2: the doctors and nurses that looked after us and looked
Speaker 2: after my mum and looked after Henry. I'm just really
Speaker 2: looking forward to touchwood. Hopefully are really cruisy twenty twenty five,
Speaker 2: not too many hospital visits, not too many doctors' visits,
Speaker 2: you know, just really getting to enjoy my children.
Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely. It's been a long journey because you've had
Speaker 1: to do it pretty quickly, one after the other, and
Speaker 1: it hasn't been easy. It's kind of nice just to enjoy, like.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I hate that word. I hate the word journey,
Speaker 2: but it has felt like a journey. And you know,
Speaker 2: there's been so many milestones. But as a parent, you
Speaker 2: guys probably say the same thing. You're like, next week
Speaker 2: it'll get better. Yes, we could all get better, but
Speaker 2: it's like, hopefully next year will be our year and
Speaker 2: we can just like slow down.
Speaker 1: We've got to have the belief at the beginning of
Speaker 1: the year that it's going to be get yeah, aimheigh,
Speaker 1: Yeah exactly. And so what's it like, I mean, he's
Speaker 1: just turned one, Like looking at him, seeing him reaches milestones,
Speaker 1: just seeing him as a little person, like does it
Speaker 1: just amaze.
Speaker 5: You that definitely.
Speaker 2: And he's just so different to my daughter. So he's
Speaker 2: got so many teeth, he's got like eight teeth. He's walking.
Speaker 2: He started taking steps like two weeks ago and then
Speaker 2: just started basically walking around the house and I was like,
Speaker 2: oh my goodness. And then so, yeah, he's just I
Speaker 2: used to think, oh, you raise them in the same house,
Speaker 2: they'll be similar. But my children are chalk and Cheese
Speaker 2: is a soft and my son is just a wild animal.
Speaker 2: I love that, which I love, I love, but I
Speaker 2: just didn't like as a baby.
Speaker 5: He was a very easy baby. So I kept saying
Speaker 5: to everyone, Oh, he's going to be like my husband.
Speaker 2: My husband's a surfar he's very easy going. My husband's
Speaker 2: very you know, very cruisy. Henry is going to be
Speaker 2: just like his dad. And then my daughter's always like.
Speaker 5: Mom, he's so rough. He's so rough with me.
Speaker 2: And I'm like, Violet, just you put your hand out
Speaker 2: and you say no, Hongry, I don't like it, yes,
Speaker 2: gentle hands. But yeah, he's he's just such a boy.
Speaker 1: I feel like he had to have that kind of
Speaker 1: demeanor because he just really really wanted.
Speaker 4: To be here.
Speaker 1: You know he really wanted to be here, so he's
Speaker 1: living life to the fullest. He's rough and humble. I
Speaker 1: love it. Final question, what's surprised you the most? What
Speaker 1: did you learn about yourself?
Speaker 2: I think there's there's been lots of challenges along the way,
Speaker 2: but I'm just really, really, really proud of myself that
Speaker 2: I've been able to get up every day and be grateful.
Speaker 5: And it's not easy.
Speaker 2: The drugs make you feel crap, and when you've got
Speaker 2: a kid and you're pregnant, and because I was obviously
Speaker 2: well key, you would totally understand, but yeah, still on
Speaker 2: a pregnancy, but any pregnancy, some people look get nice
Speaker 2: and easy and you know, but it's hard. So I'm
Speaker 2: just really proud that I tried to see the positive
Speaker 2: and I just kept turning up and doing what I
Speaker 2: could do.
Speaker 5: And you know, I had to ask for help.
Speaker 2: Like obviously to get to this stage, I did have
Speaker 2: to ask my mum for her uterus, so you know,
Speaker 2: I did have to ask for things. So I think
Speaker 2: I'm just getting to the point where I'm getting more
Speaker 2: comfortable within asking for what I need and for asking
Speaker 2: for help and then also accepting that help because yeah,
Speaker 2: it's really hard sometimes as a mum when you just
Speaker 2: want to do and be everywhere all the time. To
Speaker 2: then accept that help as well.
Speaker 1: It feels like that's almost your full circle kind of lesson,
Speaker 1: because remember when you were talking in the hospital about
Speaker 1: you were kind of fawning and trying to keep it
Speaker 1: all together, and you know, you were scared to kind
Speaker 1: of let anyone know that you were struggling to now
Speaker 1: like being like, I'm actually so proud of myself for
Speaker 1: asking for and accepting the help.
Speaker 5: Yes, because yeah, a problem shared is definitely a problem halved.
Speaker 5: And I think you actually key you were only talking
Speaker 5: about this the other day. You were saying, once you
Speaker 5: started talking about how you were feeling, you felt a
Speaker 5: little better.
Speaker 1: The weight lifts.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like it's only you. You feel supported,
Speaker 1: it doesn't feel as isolating. Yeah, definitely. Thanks obviously, Well
Speaker 1: was women here talking to white so wise? Well, thank
Speaker 1: you so much. That was just the most interesting, beautiful, entertaining,
Speaker 1: joyful conversation I think I've had in a long time.
Speaker 1: And I just thank you so a lot.
Speaker 5: But the way it is a lot of infertility, Thank you,
Speaker 5: thank you.
Speaker 3: I feel like a little bit flustered because I'm like,
Speaker 3: where is the presence of someone that has changed history?
Speaker 5: Oh? Remember I was just the patient, but yes.
Speaker 3: No, no, your body was used and you are a
Speaker 3: huge part of that.
Speaker 2: I'm internally grateful for doctor Matt Branstrom, the Royal Women's
Speaker 2: the clinical trial, because yeah, I would never have been
Speaker 2: able to carry another child, and I'm so grateful that
Speaker 2: I did get to have that opportunity.
Speaker 3: I hope everyone enjoyed listening to that chat as much
Speaker 3: as we enjoyed having it. She is just incredible and
Speaker 3: she's also just like a really good speaker.
Speaker 1: She's very eloquent, such a good storyteller. I was on
Speaker 1: the edge of my seat the whole time during that nur. Yes,
Speaker 1: it was really good and.
Speaker 4: She knew all the good we ask.
Speaker 1: Yeah exactly. So thank you Kirsty so much for sharing
Speaker 1: your story.
Speaker 4: And thank you for joining us today.
Speaker 3: Make sure you share the pod on your socials, spread
Speaker 3: this incredible story far and wide, and please make sure
Speaker 3: you rate and review us. You can find us on
Speaker 3: Instagram at Key Reese and at Kelly Underscore McCarron, and
Speaker 3: at essi Dot Pod.
Speaker 1: This episode was produced by us Key and kel with
Speaker 1: audio production by our lovely producer Madeline Joanna Bye Bye