1 00:00:11,104 --> 00:00:11,424 Speaker 1: So much. 2 00:00:11,424 --> 00:00:14,144 Speaker 2: You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast. 3 00:00:14,784 --> 00:00:18,664 Speaker 3: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and borders 4 00:00:18,704 --> 00:00:26,744 Speaker 3: that this podcast is recorded on From Mamma Mia. Welcome 5 00:00:26,784 --> 00:00:29,704 Speaker 3: to this bill, your daily pop culture fix. I'm Laura 6 00:00:29,704 --> 00:00:32,584 Speaker 3: Brodnick and today we are rejoined by a very special guest. 7 00:00:32,744 --> 00:00:35,144 Speaker 2: Hi, I'm Cassenni Lukish. Thank you for having me back. 8 00:00:35,344 --> 00:00:36,744 Speaker 3: Well, I'm glad you came back to it because we 9 00:00:36,744 --> 00:00:39,464 Speaker 3: have a lot to discuss. I'm sure everyone knows Cassenya's voice. 10 00:00:39,504 --> 00:00:42,104 Speaker 3: She's the host of another one of our Mummia podcasts, 11 00:00:42,184 --> 00:00:44,264 Speaker 3: Diary of a Birth. You've joined us on the show before, 12 00:00:44,904 --> 00:00:48,264 Speaker 3: Big entertainment background, and today we have some juicy subjects 13 00:00:48,304 --> 00:00:49,024 Speaker 3: to get into. 14 00:00:49,144 --> 00:00:52,744 Speaker 2: We do now. I am actually very happy that we're 15 00:00:52,744 --> 00:00:54,464 Speaker 2: talking about this one because I think that we have 16 00:00:54,664 --> 00:01:00,344 Speaker 2: similar ideas on this particular show. Yeah, what are we 17 00:01:00,464 --> 00:01:01,504 Speaker 2: talking about this way? 18 00:01:01,624 --> 00:01:04,424 Speaker 3: It is that daunting time of year where married at 19 00:01:04,424 --> 00:01:07,304 Speaker 3: first sight is back on our screens, and I feel 20 00:01:07,304 --> 00:01:11,504 Speaker 3: like this year it started off on a particularly awful tone. 21 00:01:11,944 --> 00:01:14,064 Speaker 2: Yeah. Look, and we've also got a bit of a 22 00:01:14,104 --> 00:01:17,504 Speaker 2: feud between two Australian influencers and I know you might 23 00:01:17,544 --> 00:01:20,664 Speaker 2: be thinking, why are we covering this, But it's honestly, 24 00:01:21,024 --> 00:01:23,544 Speaker 2: these people have huge followings. So we'll get into that 25 00:01:23,544 --> 00:01:24,224 Speaker 2: a little bit later. 26 00:01:24,544 --> 00:01:26,824 Speaker 3: Yes, so on tomorrow at first sight the topic that 27 00:01:27,304 --> 00:01:29,504 Speaker 3: I mean, every year, we go through the same ring 28 00:01:29,624 --> 00:01:32,824 Speaker 3: roll before the show starts, where the couples are announced. 29 00:01:33,104 --> 00:01:35,064 Speaker 3: We see all these clips of how they're so desperate 30 00:01:35,064 --> 00:01:37,344 Speaker 3: to find love and how this is going to be 31 00:01:37,344 --> 00:01:39,704 Speaker 3: a fairy tale for them. We have all the interviews 32 00:01:39,704 --> 00:01:41,984 Speaker 3: with the experts and the people on the show saying 33 00:01:42,184 --> 00:01:44,624 Speaker 3: this is going to be a particularly great season, and 34 00:01:44,744 --> 00:01:46,904 Speaker 3: our terms of great are very different because I'm sure 35 00:01:46,944 --> 00:01:48,784 Speaker 3: they know the drama because it's all pre films, so 36 00:01:48,824 --> 00:01:51,264 Speaker 3: they know the drama that's coming, and they're still trying 37 00:01:51,304 --> 00:01:53,464 Speaker 3: to dress it up like it's a social experiment. We're 38 00:01:53,504 --> 00:01:55,704 Speaker 3: trying to see how these people fit together. We're hoping 39 00:01:55,704 --> 00:01:58,304 Speaker 3: all these people will find love, but in real talk, 40 00:01:58,384 --> 00:01:59,944 Speaker 3: we all know that a lot of these couples have 41 00:01:59,984 --> 00:02:01,384 Speaker 3: been matched for drama. 42 00:02:01,544 --> 00:02:06,664 Speaker 2: Yeah, let's not pretend this is anything other than reality 43 00:02:06,744 --> 00:02:09,744 Speaker 2: TV that is entertaining and fun to watch. People love 44 00:02:09,824 --> 00:02:13,624 Speaker 2: to watch a train wreck. Yeah, that is the core 45 00:02:13,864 --> 00:02:16,664 Speaker 2: of reality TV, and these producers know what they're doing. 46 00:02:17,104 --> 00:02:20,664 Speaker 2: Now the one that has gotten the biggest bit of negativity. 47 00:02:20,664 --> 00:02:24,424 Speaker 2: We've got the two guys, which, surprise, surprise, the boys 48 00:02:24,464 --> 00:02:26,904 Speaker 2: weren't happy with the girls that they got picked for them, 49 00:02:27,384 --> 00:02:31,104 Speaker 2: and it's just again the same story over and over again. 50 00:02:31,424 --> 00:02:35,544 Speaker 2: Now we've got Tim, who is this school teacher mister 51 00:02:35,664 --> 00:02:37,784 Speaker 2: nice guy, and then Elliot, who is kind of a 52 00:02:37,824 --> 00:02:41,224 Speaker 2: little bit more of that typical bad boy walking red flag. 53 00:02:42,264 --> 00:02:48,144 Speaker 2: Now I think that Tim is far more dangerous than Elliot, 54 00:02:48,304 --> 00:02:53,184 Speaker 2: because at least Elliot is obvious with it. Yeahim, it's 55 00:02:53,224 --> 00:02:55,904 Speaker 2: this whole I'm a nice guy. I'm a nice guy. 56 00:02:56,224 --> 00:02:56,624 Speaker 4: Tim. 57 00:02:57,304 --> 00:02:58,624 Speaker 2: What do you think about your bride? 58 00:02:59,064 --> 00:03:01,184 Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm not really sure how to feel. Yeah, it's 59 00:03:01,184 --> 00:03:03,704 Speaker 4: a beautiful girl, but I just was surprised didn't have 60 00:03:03,744 --> 00:03:04,784 Speaker 4: that initial spark. 61 00:03:04,864 --> 00:03:10,024 Speaker 2: But she's so lovely. The way he treated that poor woman, 62 00:03:10,744 --> 00:03:13,744 Speaker 2: I could barely watch it. I really felt for her. 63 00:03:14,664 --> 00:03:18,384 Speaker 2: The expectation that you're going to get exactly what you 64 00:03:18,424 --> 00:03:22,024 Speaker 2: want a petite blond, yes, Like, are you delusional? Do 65 00:03:22,024 --> 00:03:25,024 Speaker 2: you not know what this show is about. They're creating drama. 66 00:03:25,384 --> 00:03:28,584 Speaker 2: They're going to go the opposite of what you pick. 67 00:03:28,784 --> 00:03:34,624 Speaker 4: Totally not what I wanted not good, but normally go 68 00:03:35,624 --> 00:03:41,464 Speaker 4: from just short fetitue, blonde or brunette like Katie's Yeah, 69 00:03:41,704 --> 00:03:46,904 Speaker 4: nothing what normally i'd go for. There's no attraction. There's 70 00:03:46,944 --> 00:03:49,464 Speaker 4: nothing there, and I can tell straight away, and it's just. 71 00:03:49,424 --> 00:03:52,384 Speaker 2: Sort of like you don't even know who yet. 72 00:03:52,544 --> 00:03:55,664 Speaker 4: I know, but if there's just nothing there, what do 73 00:03:55,664 --> 00:03:58,184 Speaker 4: you do? Oh, I'm shatter it. I was just like 74 00:03:58,264 --> 00:04:01,104 Speaker 4: as soon as I was about it's disappointing. 75 00:04:01,504 --> 00:04:03,064 Speaker 3: And that's a hard thing is that sometimes there are 76 00:04:03,064 --> 00:04:04,864 Speaker 3: people who come in this show and it's very clear 77 00:04:04,904 --> 00:04:07,544 Speaker 3: that they're there to stir up drama. They're part of 78 00:04:07,584 --> 00:04:10,544 Speaker 3: the whole system. They're there to get Instagram followers. I 79 00:04:10,584 --> 00:04:12,424 Speaker 3: do get that a little bit with some contestants this 80 00:04:12,504 --> 00:04:15,264 Speaker 3: season and with Elliott. Those people I don't mind watching 81 00:04:15,304 --> 00:04:16,664 Speaker 3: to go through a bit of drama, and I don't 82 00:04:16,704 --> 00:04:19,344 Speaker 3: mind people kind of reveling and watching them because I'm like, 83 00:04:19,464 --> 00:04:21,504 Speaker 3: we've all signed up for the same game. But then 84 00:04:21,504 --> 00:04:23,744 Speaker 3: you've got a woman like Katie who comes into the 85 00:04:23,784 --> 00:04:27,584 Speaker 3: show and is so vulnerable in such a beautiful way 86 00:04:27,704 --> 00:04:30,344 Speaker 3: on screen and saying like I've just wanted to fall 87 00:04:30,344 --> 00:04:31,984 Speaker 3: in love, but no one's ever fall in love with 88 00:04:32,064 --> 00:04:33,824 Speaker 3: me and I didn't think this is how it was 89 00:04:33,824 --> 00:04:36,304 Speaker 3: going to go, but I, you know, I just need 90 00:04:36,344 --> 00:04:38,624 Speaker 3: to take a chance at love. It just comes across 91 00:04:38,624 --> 00:04:41,384 Speaker 3: the screen that she is not there. It's like she's 92 00:04:41,584 --> 00:04:43,624 Speaker 3: playing a different game to everyone else, Like not even 93 00:04:43,664 --> 00:04:46,504 Speaker 3: a game. It's like they've deliberately matched her with someone 94 00:04:46,784 --> 00:04:50,624 Speaker 3: who they know is going to cause this big talkability situation. 95 00:04:51,264 --> 00:04:53,824 Speaker 3: Watching it unfold too, because you see Tim's face when 96 00:04:53,864 --> 00:04:56,504 Speaker 3: she comes down the aisle, and also at the same time, 97 00:04:56,544 --> 00:04:58,344 Speaker 3: like I wouldn't judge the person for having like a 98 00:04:58,344 --> 00:05:00,904 Speaker 3: shocked reaction because that's really weird to see a stranger 99 00:05:00,984 --> 00:05:03,024 Speaker 3: walk towards you. And we also know that how they 100 00:05:03,064 --> 00:05:05,904 Speaker 3: film these math's weddings is that it's not like they 101 00:05:05,944 --> 00:05:07,744 Speaker 3: just walk down the aisle, say a few vows like 102 00:05:07,744 --> 00:05:09,824 Speaker 3: a normal wedding, and then they're filming it like they 103 00:05:09,824 --> 00:05:12,744 Speaker 3: do so many retakes, they shoot different things. They can 104 00:05:12,784 --> 00:05:15,904 Speaker 3: go on for hours and hours. Sometimes the celebrants don't 105 00:05:15,944 --> 00:05:17,544 Speaker 3: say anything, or they say things, so we don't know 106 00:05:17,544 --> 00:05:20,904 Speaker 3: what stage of the filming. His reaction shots were showed 107 00:05:21,184 --> 00:05:23,224 Speaker 3: like it could have been his initial reaction, it could 108 00:05:23,224 --> 00:05:25,104 Speaker 3: have been after they'd been there, for ten hours and 109 00:05:25,344 --> 00:05:28,704 Speaker 3: something had happened behind the scenes. But that moment where 110 00:05:28,704 --> 00:05:30,984 Speaker 3: he kind of leaves the wedding and the producers having 111 00:05:31,024 --> 00:05:32,944 Speaker 3: to chase him down and be like give her a chance, 112 00:05:33,304 --> 00:05:35,144 Speaker 3: and then her saying like, this is my biggest fear 113 00:05:35,184 --> 00:05:38,944 Speaker 3: of being humiliated and rejected. It's just awful to watch. 114 00:05:39,544 --> 00:05:41,864 Speaker 1: He just sat down and said, there's no spark. I 115 00:05:41,904 --> 00:05:46,624 Speaker 1: wasn't feeling a spark all day. To be rejected like. 116 00:05:48,144 --> 00:05:49,824 Speaker 2: That's my worst quoint mare. 117 00:05:51,224 --> 00:05:56,384 Speaker 1: I don't know what I've done wrong, why this keeps 118 00:05:56,544 --> 00:06:02,544 Speaker 1: happening to feel really humiliated. 119 00:06:02,464 --> 00:06:06,784 Speaker 2: And I think there's a lot of discourse about you 120 00:06:06,904 --> 00:06:09,904 Speaker 2: know what you're getting into now. I know that there. 121 00:06:10,024 --> 00:06:13,304 Speaker 2: I've actually heard a lot of discussion from previous reality 122 00:06:13,704 --> 00:06:17,984 Speaker 2: TV stars talking about unionizing and getting some protections for 123 00:06:18,104 --> 00:06:21,904 Speaker 2: reality TV and particularly from the mental health space. That's 124 00:06:21,944 --> 00:06:25,904 Speaker 2: one I think that's really important. However, I don't know 125 00:06:25,944 --> 00:06:29,984 Speaker 2: if you know this TikTok lawyer Johann Kalantra he is, 126 00:06:30,024 --> 00:06:32,264 Speaker 2: you know, follow me for more legal TikTok if you 127 00:06:32,304 --> 00:06:34,824 Speaker 2: haven't seen him anyway. He's an Australian criminal defense lawyer. 128 00:06:35,464 --> 00:06:40,504 Speaker 2: He posted a video yesterday talking about how he advised 129 00:06:40,504 --> 00:06:43,304 Speaker 2: a reality TV star on a contract for a well 130 00:06:43,304 --> 00:06:47,424 Speaker 2: known reality TV show. He said, the first page of 131 00:06:47,424 --> 00:06:51,944 Speaker 2: that contract had a massive, big bold letters warning and 132 00:06:51,984 --> 00:06:54,784 Speaker 2: it says, one, you may be portrayed in the negative light. 133 00:06:55,024 --> 00:06:58,544 Speaker 2: Two no guarantee of famous success from this show. Three 134 00:06:58,664 --> 00:07:01,584 Speaker 2: people have had mental health or physical health issues post 135 00:07:01,944 --> 00:07:07,224 Speaker 2: the show. So these production companies are now laying this 136 00:07:07,384 --> 00:07:12,184 Speaker 2: out very very clearly in the contract. Then the next 137 00:07:12,264 --> 00:07:14,744 Speaker 2: page is you're going through all the clauses. They own, 138 00:07:14,784 --> 00:07:17,224 Speaker 2: all the content, they have right to the way that 139 00:07:17,264 --> 00:07:21,544 Speaker 2: the story is told. And it is incredibly one sided. 140 00:07:21,744 --> 00:07:24,864 Speaker 2: This is not a contract for the people who are 141 00:07:24,864 --> 00:07:27,504 Speaker 2: on the show. They do not have any powers. And 142 00:07:27,624 --> 00:07:30,944 Speaker 2: Jahannes says, I advise the client not to sign it 143 00:07:30,984 --> 00:07:34,344 Speaker 2: because it is a ridiculous contract. You have no leg 144 00:07:34,424 --> 00:07:39,144 Speaker 2: to stand on. But these people still sign them. And 145 00:07:39,224 --> 00:07:40,744 Speaker 2: this guy's a school teacher. 146 00:07:41,104 --> 00:07:42,864 Speaker 3: I know that's a horrific thing. And I guess I 147 00:07:42,944 --> 00:07:45,064 Speaker 3: understand kind of why people, because the thing is, even 148 00:07:45,104 --> 00:07:46,824 Speaker 3: though we see all these people have all these mental 149 00:07:46,824 --> 00:07:50,064 Speaker 3: health issues and be villainized over the years, there's still 150 00:07:50,224 --> 00:07:52,344 Speaker 3: huge influx of people that want to be un married 151 00:07:52,384 --> 00:07:54,264 Speaker 3: at first site. So I think they can offer them 152 00:07:54,304 --> 00:07:57,304 Speaker 3: a contract that is kind of against the person signing 153 00:07:57,344 --> 00:07:59,104 Speaker 3: it because they know that if they say no, then 154 00:07:59,104 --> 00:08:01,264 Speaker 3: they'll just grab the next person in line. But I 155 00:08:01,304 --> 00:08:03,104 Speaker 3: think that's also something to be aware of, is that 156 00:08:03,144 --> 00:08:06,504 Speaker 3: everyone's so quick to sort of paint him as the 157 00:08:06,504 --> 00:08:08,424 Speaker 3: worst man in the world and he's so awful, and 158 00:08:08,464 --> 00:08:11,264 Speaker 3: I'm not defending him. I've also met fifty guys like him, 159 00:08:11,264 --> 00:08:12,784 Speaker 3: Like this whole thing of like I'm a nice guy, 160 00:08:12,864 --> 00:08:15,144 Speaker 3: that's a red flag. I'm just attracted to a certain 161 00:08:15,184 --> 00:08:17,144 Speaker 3: type of person you can't help you're attracted to. But 162 00:08:17,504 --> 00:08:22,824 Speaker 3: there's just this undertone of like emotional abuse situation behind 163 00:08:22,864 --> 00:08:24,424 Speaker 3: the scenes, and it's like that man wouldn't have really 164 00:08:24,464 --> 00:08:26,824 Speaker 3: been happy with anyone who walked down the aisle towards him, 165 00:08:26,904 --> 00:08:29,544 Speaker 3: And even if it was a really young, petite blonde 166 00:08:29,544 --> 00:08:31,584 Speaker 3: like he's asking for, which that is creepy. As a 167 00:08:31,624 --> 00:08:34,744 Speaker 3: side note, he would have found something about her behavior 168 00:08:34,784 --> 00:08:36,944 Speaker 3: towards him that was like, you know, he would have 169 00:08:36,984 --> 00:08:39,744 Speaker 3: played the victim. But I think it's more so that 170 00:08:39,824 --> 00:08:42,864 Speaker 3: production company is kind of banking on everyone hating Tim 171 00:08:43,264 --> 00:08:45,664 Speaker 3: and not looking at them, whereas they know exactly what 172 00:08:45,664 --> 00:08:45,984 Speaker 3: they're doing. 173 00:08:46,064 --> 00:08:46,744 Speaker 2: They set it up. 174 00:08:46,984 --> 00:08:49,664 Speaker 3: They showed those clips of him walking away with the producer, 175 00:08:49,984 --> 00:08:52,744 Speaker 3: they showed Katie breaking down, they set her up in 176 00:08:52,744 --> 00:08:55,304 Speaker 3: a different way, like it's just it's all very set 177 00:08:55,384 --> 00:08:57,944 Speaker 3: up for the audience to react a very specific way, 178 00:08:57,984 --> 00:08:58,664 Speaker 3: and we all did. 179 00:08:59,024 --> 00:09:02,304 Speaker 2: Yeah. And I think for me, the loser in all 180 00:09:02,344 --> 00:09:06,144 Speaker 2: of this is poor Katie. Yeah, because if she did 181 00:09:06,184 --> 00:09:10,744 Speaker 2: go into this earnestly, which she does seem from the 182 00:09:11,024 --> 00:09:14,704 Speaker 2: few minutes I've seen of her like a sweet woman, 183 00:09:15,544 --> 00:09:18,384 Speaker 2: she really does and genuine, and you could see her 184 00:09:18,384 --> 00:09:22,704 Speaker 2: getting progressively, progressively more uncomfortable. I think what makes me 185 00:09:22,864 --> 00:09:28,704 Speaker 2: uncomfortable is using someone's discomfort and embarrassment. Yes, he'll be 186 00:09:28,784 --> 00:09:33,704 Speaker 2: villified and you know, villainized, but she's the one that 187 00:09:33,824 --> 00:09:36,224 Speaker 2: has had that yeah broad upon her. 188 00:09:36,464 --> 00:09:37,984 Speaker 3: I mean again, it's not a good thing. And also 189 00:09:37,984 --> 00:09:39,784 Speaker 3: read in the first week into this, like there's so 190 00:09:39,944 --> 00:09:41,904 Speaker 3: much of this story to go, the so many episodes 191 00:09:41,944 --> 00:09:43,304 Speaker 3: to go. But the only kind of good thing I 192 00:09:43,304 --> 00:09:45,384 Speaker 3: guess is seeing how many people in Australia have like 193 00:09:45,744 --> 00:09:48,264 Speaker 3: rallied around her and even loose in Delight from last season, 194 00:09:48,304 --> 00:09:50,304 Speaker 3: who was a big favorite, has that I've reached out 195 00:09:50,304 --> 00:09:51,984 Speaker 3: to her we want to work on something, so like 196 00:09:52,264 --> 00:09:54,904 Speaker 3: hopefully she's seeing that outpouring of wealth and there's been 197 00:09:54,944 --> 00:09:56,984 Speaker 3: a bit of difference, but still like it's just it's 198 00:09:56,984 --> 00:10:01,064 Speaker 3: a hard thing to go through on national TV. So 199 00:10:01,304 --> 00:10:04,104 Speaker 3: one of the biggest dramas feuds that we've ever seen 200 00:10:04,144 --> 00:10:06,904 Speaker 3: in the Australia influencer world is happening at the moment 201 00:10:07,184 --> 00:10:11,544 Speaker 3: between two very big names Mikaela Tester and now if 202 00:10:11,544 --> 00:10:13,384 Speaker 3: you're not across who these young women are, I feel 203 00:10:13,384 --> 00:10:15,144 Speaker 3: like most people would be. But I guess there's still 204 00:10:15,184 --> 00:10:17,224 Speaker 3: like a bit of a gap between traditional media and 205 00:10:17,344 --> 00:10:21,864 Speaker 3: TikToker influencer world. They both have huge followings, they both 206 00:10:21,904 --> 00:10:25,784 Speaker 3: have huge Instagram accounts, TikTok accounts, brands, they both work 207 00:10:25,824 --> 00:10:28,184 Speaker 3: on OnlyFans site, so they have a lot of different 208 00:10:28,224 --> 00:10:30,344 Speaker 3: kind of avenues going on. But I guess the biggest 209 00:10:30,344 --> 00:10:34,224 Speaker 3: connection between these two particular women is that Mikayla Testa 210 00:10:34,744 --> 00:10:37,704 Speaker 3: dated Anna Paul's brother Addis for two years and it 211 00:10:37,744 --> 00:10:39,864 Speaker 3: was huge news when they split up in May of 212 00:10:39,984 --> 00:10:40,464 Speaker 3: last year. 213 00:10:41,144 --> 00:10:44,624 Speaker 2: Yeah, so look, Anna Paul known for the only Fans. 214 00:10:44,944 --> 00:10:48,704 Speaker 2: She's got this very bubbly personality. She does these vlogs, 215 00:10:49,144 --> 00:10:52,424 Speaker 2: It is a lot of traveling with her family and 216 00:10:52,464 --> 00:10:55,904 Speaker 2: her brother and spending a lot of money, and Mikayla 217 00:10:55,984 --> 00:10:58,224 Speaker 2: and her used to do a lot of content together 218 00:10:59,064 --> 00:11:01,704 Speaker 2: and when they broke up, it kind of just fell 219 00:11:01,704 --> 00:11:03,544 Speaker 2: apart and that was it. There was a little bit 220 00:11:03,584 --> 00:11:06,664 Speaker 2: of back and forth, but it really exploded when Mikayla 221 00:11:06,744 --> 00:11:10,304 Speaker 2: posted an eight and a half minute video on her 222 00:11:10,504 --> 00:11:14,024 Speaker 2: TikTok basically reading a letter that she had written. It 223 00:11:14,064 --> 00:11:18,224 Speaker 2: was almost like a public statement of what Anna Paul 224 00:11:18,504 --> 00:11:23,304 Speaker 2: is actually like. The general gist of this video is 225 00:11:23,784 --> 00:11:26,984 Speaker 2: that Mikayla is saying that Anna Paul is nothing like 226 00:11:27,104 --> 00:11:30,224 Speaker 2: what she trace, which brings up a couple of interesting 227 00:11:30,264 --> 00:11:32,544 Speaker 2: things which we'll get into. But first of all, let's 228 00:11:32,544 --> 00:11:34,984 Speaker 2: just go into a couple of the key moments of 229 00:11:35,024 --> 00:11:36,264 Speaker 2: the video itself. 230 00:11:36,704 --> 00:11:39,304 Speaker 3: Yeah, So, why this video, I guess has gone crazy viral. 231 00:11:39,424 --> 00:11:41,664 Speaker 3: It's had millions of us to post on TikTok, but 232 00:11:41,664 --> 00:11:44,504 Speaker 3: it's obviously been shared now across multiple platforms, so many 233 00:11:44,544 --> 00:11:47,104 Speaker 3: different other creators and fans weighing in on it. But 234 00:11:47,264 --> 00:11:49,424 Speaker 3: all it's very clear that she's reading a pre prepared 235 00:11:49,504 --> 00:11:52,024 Speaker 3: script and she acknowledges that and says that she has 236 00:11:52,064 --> 00:11:53,984 Speaker 3: to sort of had to really get her thoughts together 237 00:11:54,024 --> 00:11:56,624 Speaker 3: for this big statement, and prior to that, on her 238 00:11:56,704 --> 00:12:00,304 Speaker 3: Instagram story a few days beforehand, she had put up 239 00:12:00,384 --> 00:12:03,544 Speaker 3: sort of an anonymous post calling out creators who almost 240 00:12:03,584 --> 00:12:06,224 Speaker 3: like trick their followers into giving them money in these giveaways, 241 00:12:06,424 --> 00:12:08,624 Speaker 3: and then came out to confirm that she was talking 242 00:12:08,664 --> 00:12:11,584 Speaker 3: about Anna Paul. And what's interesting is that she starts 243 00:12:11,584 --> 00:12:13,704 Speaker 3: by saying, like, I know you all love her, but 244 00:12:13,864 --> 00:12:16,024 Speaker 3: you don't know the real Anna Paul. I know her. 245 00:12:16,504 --> 00:12:19,184 Speaker 3: And that's almost like a big kind of reveal in 246 00:12:19,224 --> 00:12:22,184 Speaker 3: itself because Anna Paul is so known for being like, 247 00:12:22,424 --> 00:12:24,384 Speaker 3: you know, the ultimate kind of girl's girl. That's why 248 00:12:24,424 --> 00:12:28,024 Speaker 3: so many really young women in particular have idolized her. 249 00:12:28,064 --> 00:12:30,504 Speaker 3: Like she's done public appearances in Australia where streets have 250 00:12:30,544 --> 00:12:32,704 Speaker 3: had to be shut down and shopping centers have had 251 00:12:32,744 --> 00:12:35,184 Speaker 3: to be shut down because people heard Anna Paul was 252 00:12:35,224 --> 00:12:37,064 Speaker 3: going to be there and they lined up for hours 253 00:12:37,104 --> 00:12:39,104 Speaker 3: and it's like one direction was walking down the street. 254 00:12:39,104 --> 00:12:41,904 Speaker 3: Like she's like that kind of level of superstuff, and 255 00:12:42,024 --> 00:12:44,744 Speaker 3: people love her because she's seen as a real girl's girl. 256 00:12:44,784 --> 00:12:48,024 Speaker 3: She's got this real like sex positivity, body positivity, even 257 00:12:48,024 --> 00:12:49,944 Speaker 3: though she's like a straight sized woman, she's very much 258 00:12:49,984 --> 00:12:51,944 Speaker 3: like love yourself and any kind of body you're in. 259 00:12:52,264 --> 00:12:55,264 Speaker 3: She's really promoted this like Rags to Riches's story, saying, like, 260 00:12:55,304 --> 00:12:57,464 Speaker 3: you know, there was times when her family have no money, 261 00:12:57,504 --> 00:13:00,144 Speaker 3: which Mikayla gets into in the video is saying that's 262 00:13:00,184 --> 00:13:03,384 Speaker 3: also a lie. And her family have also as you're saying, 263 00:13:03,384 --> 00:13:05,504 Speaker 3: like as they travel and her romances and stuff have 264 00:13:05,544 --> 00:13:07,904 Speaker 3: become like a big part of her story. And then 265 00:13:08,064 --> 00:13:11,064 Speaker 3: Mikayla basically said, it's all a line done for fame. 266 00:13:11,384 --> 00:13:14,784 Speaker 3: And one of the biggest takeaways of this video is 267 00:13:14,784 --> 00:13:17,624 Speaker 3: where she talks about an encounter that she alleges Anna 268 00:13:17,664 --> 00:13:18,264 Speaker 3: had with a fan. 269 00:13:18,744 --> 00:13:21,664 Speaker 5: Meanwhile, right before these videos were trending, in twenty twenty one, 270 00:13:21,704 --> 00:13:24,704 Speaker 5: on the South Bank Bridge, when you were peak body positivity, 271 00:13:24,744 --> 00:13:27,984 Speaker 5: love yourself version of Anna, a plus sized fan came 272 00:13:28,064 --> 00:13:30,864 Speaker 5: up to you and asked for a hug in a picture. 273 00:13:31,144 --> 00:13:33,984 Speaker 5: You smiled at her, You told her that you loved her. 274 00:13:34,344 --> 00:13:36,464 Speaker 5: She told you how your words online have helped her 275 00:13:36,464 --> 00:13:38,944 Speaker 5: be more comfortable in her body. The moment she walked away, 276 00:13:38,984 --> 00:13:40,944 Speaker 5: you told adis that she was annoying and gross and 277 00:13:40,984 --> 00:13:42,984 Speaker 5: you didn't want to agree to the hug because she 278 00:13:43,104 --> 00:13:47,224 Speaker 5: was fat and sweaty Adis laughed. These were your words, Anna, 279 00:13:47,464 --> 00:13:50,584 Speaker 5: I heard them. Things like this were a common occurrence. 280 00:13:51,104 --> 00:13:53,984 Speaker 5: Seeing your fakeness in the flesh was such a disturbing experience. 281 00:13:54,424 --> 00:13:57,064 Speaker 5: Your fans mean nothing to you, just like the animals 282 00:13:57,104 --> 00:13:58,464 Speaker 5: you buy and palm off to others. 283 00:13:59,024 --> 00:14:02,344 Speaker 2: Wow. I really do want to get into this notion 284 00:14:02,704 --> 00:14:07,344 Speaker 2: of who influences are and the fact that as humans 285 00:14:07,384 --> 00:14:10,744 Speaker 2: we take things that face value. If someone tells you something, 286 00:14:10,784 --> 00:14:15,264 Speaker 2: you believe it generally. But I think the problem with 287 00:14:15,344 --> 00:14:21,024 Speaker 2: this influencer world is so much of it is a facade. 288 00:14:21,744 --> 00:14:23,824 Speaker 2: There's an old song from the musical called Jackal and 289 00:14:23,904 --> 00:14:24,424 Speaker 2: Hyde and it's. 290 00:14:24,744 --> 00:14:27,944 Speaker 3: All a fussade. Oh this is super niche. It's exactly 291 00:14:27,944 --> 00:14:28,904 Speaker 3: love a musical reference. 292 00:14:28,944 --> 00:14:31,104 Speaker 2: You know, I don't think anyone's going to know that 293 00:14:31,184 --> 00:14:32,704 Speaker 2: musical reference, but I know I do. 294 00:14:32,744 --> 00:14:33,024 Speaker 1: You do? 295 00:14:33,384 --> 00:14:35,624 Speaker 2: I do? I like the musical. Let me talk about 296 00:14:35,704 --> 00:14:37,624 Speaker 2: in some of these mean influences. Oh my god, I 297 00:14:37,664 --> 00:14:40,344 Speaker 2: did that? So sorry, I get distracted by I did 298 00:14:40,344 --> 00:14:42,624 Speaker 2: that music in high school. Anyway, it is, it's all 299 00:14:42,624 --> 00:14:47,624 Speaker 2: a facade. So it's really interesting to see people kind 300 00:14:47,664 --> 00:14:49,144 Speaker 2: of have this shift. 301 00:14:49,744 --> 00:14:51,864 Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think that's the idea of like seeing 302 00:14:51,904 --> 00:14:54,344 Speaker 3: behind the scenes of what an influencer is potentially like 303 00:14:54,464 --> 00:14:56,624 Speaker 3: is what's really upset a lot of people, and like 304 00:14:56,664 --> 00:14:58,944 Speaker 3: we should say, like obviously there's a few caveats here 305 00:14:58,984 --> 00:15:00,744 Speaker 3: of like we weren't there for any of these situations. 306 00:15:00,744 --> 00:15:03,224 Speaker 3: We don't know what we're said. Also, because there's such 307 00:15:03,264 --> 00:15:06,664 Speaker 3: a long history between MICHAELA and Anna, there's obviously a 308 00:15:06,664 --> 00:15:09,464 Speaker 3: lot more of like emotion and backstory and like everyone 309 00:15:09,544 --> 00:15:10,944 Speaker 3: has their own version of what's happened. 310 00:15:10,984 --> 00:15:13,864 Speaker 2: We also haven't heard from Manner exactly as if recording 311 00:15:14,224 --> 00:15:17,784 Speaker 2: this episode, we have not had a response from Anapaule. 312 00:15:17,664 --> 00:15:19,864 Speaker 3: Yes exactly, so that might still come. And I'm sure 313 00:15:19,864 --> 00:15:21,664 Speaker 3: she's seen it because it's the only thing on everyone's 314 00:15:21,664 --> 00:15:23,744 Speaker 3: TikTok feed. But I've got to say, hearing about that 315 00:15:23,784 --> 00:15:26,904 Speaker 3: fan encounter with Anna I allegedly was said, did make 316 00:15:26,944 --> 00:15:29,344 Speaker 3: me feel sick, just because and you've probably seen it too, 317 00:15:29,384 --> 00:15:31,304 Speaker 3: if you are at enough of these kind of like 318 00:15:31,664 --> 00:15:34,664 Speaker 3: influencer events over the years, or events with celebrities and 319 00:15:34,704 --> 00:15:36,464 Speaker 3: famous people and that sort of thing. I mean in 320 00:15:36,504 --> 00:15:38,504 Speaker 3: the real world too, it happens like that sort of 321 00:15:38,544 --> 00:15:41,344 Speaker 3: interaction of someone being so nice and then being fatchy 322 00:15:41,464 --> 00:15:44,624 Speaker 3: me behind the scenes is just such a common occurrence. 323 00:15:44,664 --> 00:15:46,624 Speaker 3: So I don't know if she actually said that, but 324 00:15:46,784 --> 00:15:49,704 Speaker 3: I've seen it happen so many times that, like, just 325 00:15:49,784 --> 00:15:52,264 Speaker 3: I think that's why that particular moment has hit such 326 00:15:52,264 --> 00:15:53,024 Speaker 3: a cord with people. 327 00:15:53,184 --> 00:15:56,224 Speaker 2: Yet nothing asks me up more than bullying. Like there's 328 00:15:56,264 --> 00:16:00,464 Speaker 2: nothing that like boils my blood more than seeing someone 329 00:16:00,544 --> 00:16:03,944 Speaker 2: be bullied. It is really personal for me, and I 330 00:16:03,944 --> 00:16:06,264 Speaker 2: feel like that that makes me quite angry. 331 00:16:06,424 --> 00:16:08,784 Speaker 3: And it's always the people I find that, you know, 332 00:16:08,864 --> 00:16:10,704 Speaker 3: not to name me names or anything, it's a whole 333 00:16:10,744 --> 00:16:13,184 Speaker 3: different podcast, but it's always the people I find that 334 00:16:13,264 --> 00:16:17,744 Speaker 3: really monetize something like monetize body positivity or monetize some 335 00:16:17,784 --> 00:16:20,224 Speaker 3: sort of movement. That can often be the ones who 336 00:16:20,264 --> 00:16:22,264 Speaker 3: don't believe it behind the scenes, because there's two very 337 00:16:22,264 --> 00:16:24,104 Speaker 3: different things. I feel like, if you're doing a business 338 00:16:24,104 --> 00:16:26,664 Speaker 3: strategy around it, like Anna Paul hasn't using it for 339 00:16:26,704 --> 00:16:29,864 Speaker 3: fame and not in the case everyone obviously these individual cases, 340 00:16:29,944 --> 00:16:32,544 Speaker 3: but it doesn't necessarily mean that that's how you act 341 00:16:32,584 --> 00:16:34,864 Speaker 3: behind the scenes. Like they're two such different things, And 342 00:16:34,904 --> 00:16:37,384 Speaker 3: I think that's why this moment in particular of this 343 00:16:37,384 --> 00:16:39,504 Speaker 3: whole video confession has really shocked people. 344 00:16:39,784 --> 00:16:42,384 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think that the next section that I 345 00:16:42,424 --> 00:16:45,664 Speaker 2: want to talk about in the video is this allegation 346 00:16:46,024 --> 00:16:50,384 Speaker 2: that Anna Paul is effectively running an illegal lottery. 347 00:16:50,584 --> 00:16:51,944 Speaker 3: Yes, this was wild. 348 00:16:52,024 --> 00:16:53,824 Speaker 2: Now let's just have a little listen to this clips 349 00:16:53,824 --> 00:16:55,664 Speaker 2: she's referring to her only plans here. 350 00:16:55,984 --> 00:16:59,584 Speaker 5: By posting ig stories advertising that you're sending money to subscribers, 351 00:16:59,584 --> 00:17:02,024 Speaker 5: you are directly trying to lure new customers over to 352 00:17:02,064 --> 00:17:05,864 Speaker 5: your page, a page which costs sixteen dollars to access. 353 00:17:06,384 --> 00:17:09,624 Speaker 5: This sixteen dollars is essentially a lottery ticket. With the 354 00:17:09,664 --> 00:17:12,704 Speaker 5: seven hour difference and timesteps between posting your initial promo 355 00:17:12,744 --> 00:17:15,704 Speaker 5: story on Instagram to actually sending money, it's clear that 356 00:17:15,744 --> 00:17:17,704 Speaker 5: in that time you allowed the subs to reel in 357 00:17:18,184 --> 00:17:20,064 Speaker 5: as this was just a plot for profit rather than 358 00:17:20,104 --> 00:17:22,864 Speaker 5: a give back situation as you disguise it as. Then 359 00:17:22,904 --> 00:17:26,064 Speaker 5: posting further stories of screenshots sending few people five hundred 360 00:17:26,104 --> 00:17:28,904 Speaker 5: dollars saying you know where to find me. It's centivizing 361 00:17:28,984 --> 00:17:31,144 Speaker 5: more to subscribe and four for this in hopes to 362 00:17:31,224 --> 00:17:34,264 Speaker 5: win the whole premise of you luring your largely underage 363 00:17:34,264 --> 00:17:36,744 Speaker 5: fan base to a website containing cornographic photos of you 364 00:17:36,784 --> 00:17:39,104 Speaker 5: in the hopes of them winning. Your illegal lottery gambling 365 00:17:39,144 --> 00:17:40,824 Speaker 5: scheme is so twisted and weird. 366 00:17:41,384 --> 00:17:43,104 Speaker 2: Okay, so this is really interesting. 367 00:17:43,184 --> 00:17:43,424 Speaker 3: Now. 368 00:17:43,864 --> 00:17:45,704 Speaker 2: Once we heard this, I went and had a little 369 00:17:45,704 --> 00:17:49,544 Speaker 2: bit of a look into the legalities around this. Now 370 00:17:49,744 --> 00:17:53,464 Speaker 2: I'm no lawyer, However, from what I could gather, there 371 00:17:53,624 --> 00:17:56,184 Speaker 2: is a little bit of a gray area here. Now 372 00:17:56,424 --> 00:18:00,744 Speaker 2: Anna Paul is not specifically saying if you subscribe to 373 00:18:00,944 --> 00:18:04,064 Speaker 2: my only fans in six hours time, I'm going to 374 00:18:04,104 --> 00:18:08,784 Speaker 2: give away five hundred dollars to five winners. So that 375 00:18:08,904 --> 00:18:13,104 Speaker 2: is a very clear competition, and that is a pay 376 00:18:13,184 --> 00:18:17,624 Speaker 2: to play, right, She's not doing that. She's saying I 377 00:18:17,704 --> 00:18:19,544 Speaker 2: give money away to my subscribers. 378 00:18:19,864 --> 00:18:20,064 Speaker 1: Right. 379 00:18:20,584 --> 00:18:23,104 Speaker 2: It differs by state by state, so she's in Queensland. 380 00:18:23,464 --> 00:18:26,464 Speaker 2: So money where you have a chance to win, you 381 00:18:26,504 --> 00:18:29,064 Speaker 2: do need a permit. However, because it doesn't seem like 382 00:18:29,104 --> 00:18:32,984 Speaker 2: she gives these specific promises, there may be a bit 383 00:18:33,024 --> 00:18:34,184 Speaker 2: of a grayary here. 384 00:18:34,944 --> 00:18:35,104 Speaker 1: Now. 385 00:18:35,944 --> 00:18:40,024 Speaker 2: I'm assuming it works under an ABN, so she would 386 00:18:40,064 --> 00:18:43,104 Speaker 2: be her own entity, she would be technically her own business. 387 00:18:43,984 --> 00:18:47,304 Speaker 2: I obviously don't know how her tax situation works, how 388 00:18:47,304 --> 00:18:49,584 Speaker 2: her money works, all of that sort of stuff. But 389 00:18:50,264 --> 00:18:52,864 Speaker 2: it is a really interesting point and there could be 390 00:18:53,184 --> 00:18:55,944 Speaker 2: some legal consequences here. I don't know enough about the 391 00:18:55,984 --> 00:18:59,224 Speaker 2: Australian law, let alone Queensland you know, ah, Triple C 392 00:18:59,424 --> 00:19:03,984 Speaker 2: law to make an informed comment on that. However, it 393 00:19:04,064 --> 00:19:05,984 Speaker 2: is a really interesting take. 394 00:19:06,624 --> 00:19:08,544 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it's a big allegation to me. And 395 00:19:08,584 --> 00:19:10,264 Speaker 3: that's the thing is that you'd want to think that's 396 00:19:10,344 --> 00:19:12,544 Speaker 3: someone who like her, who has become a business and 397 00:19:12,584 --> 00:19:14,664 Speaker 3: you know, she owns a brand, she also monetizes all 398 00:19:14,704 --> 00:19:18,104 Speaker 3: her channels, would have checked the rules around like essentially 399 00:19:18,144 --> 00:19:20,504 Speaker 3: running a lottery. But what I think is just as 400 00:19:20,504 --> 00:19:24,144 Speaker 3: interesting is like the ethical allegations that Mikayla's making there 401 00:19:24,424 --> 00:19:26,824 Speaker 3: because also Annaple's no one for you know, giving away 402 00:19:26,824 --> 00:19:29,904 Speaker 3: money to her fans, but also screenshotting and showing like 403 00:19:30,104 --> 00:19:32,544 Speaker 3: people sending her different stories of how desperate they are 404 00:19:32,584 --> 00:19:35,304 Speaker 3: for money. And I think that's what Mikayla's really touching 405 00:19:35,344 --> 00:19:38,344 Speaker 3: on there, is like I guess using that for content, 406 00:19:38,544 --> 00:19:41,184 Speaker 3: using people struggles for content, giving some people money but 407 00:19:41,224 --> 00:19:43,024 Speaker 3: not being able to regulate who she gives it to. 408 00:19:43,384 --> 00:19:45,464 Speaker 3: And I thought it was an interesting point that she 409 00:19:45,584 --> 00:19:48,224 Speaker 3: made about knowing the stats of her audience and how 410 00:19:48,264 --> 00:19:51,624 Speaker 3: they're predominantly women, and she makes an allegation that she 411 00:19:51,744 --> 00:19:54,544 Speaker 3: suspects that Anna Paul's audience is younger than hers and 412 00:19:54,624 --> 00:19:57,664 Speaker 3: also all women. So it's a very specific group of 413 00:19:57,704 --> 00:20:00,464 Speaker 3: people that she'd be kind of targeting with these giveaways. 414 00:20:00,464 --> 00:20:02,544 Speaker 3: Which also makes it if they're like full blow and 415 00:20:02,624 --> 00:20:06,104 Speaker 3: adults with like disposal income to you know, buy things 416 00:20:06,184 --> 00:20:08,224 Speaker 3: or join things, all that sort of stuff, you kind 417 00:20:08,224 --> 00:20:10,344 Speaker 3: of think like, well, hopefully they can make their own decisions. 418 00:20:10,744 --> 00:20:12,224 Speaker 3: But if you factor in it could be a lot 419 00:20:12,264 --> 00:20:14,584 Speaker 3: of underage girls, then that does make it a bit 420 00:20:14,784 --> 00:20:15,744 Speaker 3: like ethically murkier. 421 00:20:15,944 --> 00:20:19,104 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just very performative. And I also think about 422 00:20:19,144 --> 00:20:24,544 Speaker 2: how impressionable these young women are. And again they idolize her, 423 00:20:24,744 --> 00:20:27,704 Speaker 2: She's got everything. Now, this is where things can kind 424 00:20:27,744 --> 00:20:29,624 Speaker 2: of get a little bit uncomfortable for some people. But 425 00:20:30,144 --> 00:20:34,304 Speaker 2: what are we idolizing is her only fans page? Yeah, 426 00:20:34,384 --> 00:20:37,104 Speaker 2: I know. Look, I'm all for like, I want everybody 427 00:20:37,104 --> 00:20:39,144 Speaker 2: to be able to do everything that they want to do. 428 00:20:39,304 --> 00:20:42,384 Speaker 2: I am so for that blue Eyed Kayla is like, 429 00:20:42,504 --> 00:20:46,264 Speaker 2: I love her, She's great. I do find it it's 430 00:20:46,264 --> 00:20:50,464 Speaker 2: a weird difference between her TikTok content and what she 431 00:20:50,544 --> 00:20:53,904 Speaker 2: posts on OnlyFans. Yeah, like they're so different. It's not 432 00:20:54,024 --> 00:20:56,944 Speaker 2: like a lot of her TikTok is like really sexy. 433 00:20:57,664 --> 00:21:03,584 Speaker 2: It's really like family friendly, quote unquote family friendly. So 434 00:21:03,624 --> 00:21:06,184 Speaker 2: it's really interesting because she's driving people to owef, which 435 00:21:06,224 --> 00:21:10,624 Speaker 2: is then going to uncover a whole different range of 436 00:21:10,664 --> 00:21:13,384 Speaker 2: content to these young girls. 437 00:21:13,784 --> 00:21:15,944 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's interesting because, like you're saying, it's two such 438 00:21:16,024 --> 00:21:19,144 Speaker 3: different audiences. But I would say most of her followers 439 00:21:19,464 --> 00:21:22,104 Speaker 3: come from TikTok, and I can understand why all these 440 00:21:22,144 --> 00:21:24,544 Speaker 3: young women have like fallen in love with her, especially 441 00:21:24,584 --> 00:21:26,424 Speaker 3: if she's the first influencer. A lot of them have 442 00:21:26,464 --> 00:21:28,464 Speaker 3: come across and they feel like they've grown up with her, 443 00:21:28,784 --> 00:21:31,944 Speaker 3: because she does have this beautiful, like wish fulfillment life 444 00:21:31,984 --> 00:21:34,304 Speaker 3: of like all of a sudden she got all this money, 445 00:21:34,304 --> 00:21:35,624 Speaker 3: and all of a sudden she got to travel and 446 00:21:35,664 --> 00:21:38,784 Speaker 3: she buys these beautiful things, and she also seems so 447 00:21:38,864 --> 00:21:41,744 Speaker 3: funny and sweet. Like I haven't watched as much because 448 00:21:41,744 --> 00:21:43,304 Speaker 3: I think I was obviously like a little bit older 449 00:21:43,344 --> 00:21:45,744 Speaker 3: of the demographic, but when I see her videos come up, 450 00:21:45,784 --> 00:21:48,464 Speaker 3: it is this really enticing beautiful life, and she is 451 00:21:48,504 --> 00:21:51,104 Speaker 3: really bubbly, and even just watching how she describes how 452 00:21:51,144 --> 00:21:54,344 Speaker 3: she like decorates her home or things or with her family, 453 00:21:54,384 --> 00:21:56,984 Speaker 3: it's just like beautiful. It's almost like the safe space 454 00:21:57,064 --> 00:21:59,104 Speaker 3: for women who then might then go of to her 455 00:21:59,144 --> 00:22:02,744 Speaker 3: only fans and potentially like that content as well. But 456 00:22:02,824 --> 00:22:04,944 Speaker 3: I think the core group of young women she's got 457 00:22:04,944 --> 00:22:07,944 Speaker 3: in is almost like this, very like a teen fantasy 458 00:22:08,104 --> 00:22:10,024 Speaker 3: kind of almost, which is very different to her other 459 00:22:10,064 --> 00:22:10,824 Speaker 3: side of her business. 460 00:22:10,864 --> 00:22:12,544 Speaker 2: Do you know what it's really interestingly it's a teen 461 00:22:12,624 --> 00:22:17,344 Speaker 2: fantasy because I hear that in the pitch of her voice. Hi, everyone, 462 00:22:17,384 --> 00:22:21,144 Speaker 2: Oh my god, it's so cute, Like it's a very bright, cheery. 463 00:22:21,544 --> 00:22:27,864 Speaker 2: That pitch is girly. Yeah, it's youthful, it's teenager like. 464 00:22:27,984 --> 00:22:31,664 Speaker 2: That is the tone of a lot of her content. Yeah. Absolutely, 465 00:22:31,744 --> 00:22:36,224 Speaker 2: So that is a really really interesting point. Something that 466 00:22:36,264 --> 00:22:40,264 Speaker 2: you did mention before, is this transformation of her lifestyle. Yes, 467 00:22:40,344 --> 00:22:42,664 Speaker 2: her pretending to be poor. So the next clip that 468 00:22:42,704 --> 00:22:47,584 Speaker 2: we've got is another allegation about that she was never poor. 469 00:22:48,144 --> 00:22:50,304 Speaker 5: In my opinion, it seems the Paul siblings have scamming 470 00:22:50,384 --> 00:22:52,704 Speaker 5: running through their blood, and I'm not sure why because 471 00:22:52,704 --> 00:22:55,184 Speaker 5: they were raised with amazing parents that provided a lot 472 00:22:55,184 --> 00:22:58,464 Speaker 5: for them. Their dad making triple the average Australian income 473 00:22:58,504 --> 00:23:00,904 Speaker 5: per week, had them living in a beautiful house on 474 00:23:00,944 --> 00:23:03,224 Speaker 5: the water with a built in pool. I've seen the 475 00:23:03,264 --> 00:23:06,624 Speaker 5: house in person. It's beautiful. Being upper middle class is 476 00:23:06,664 --> 00:23:09,984 Speaker 5: not being poor. Anna, your exaggerated stories for the Internet 477 00:23:10,024 --> 00:23:13,264 Speaker 5: has always made your dat upset and me well just angry. 478 00:23:13,544 --> 00:23:15,544 Speaker 5: I was a real victim of the system and poverty 479 00:23:15,584 --> 00:23:17,224 Speaker 5: like you portrayed yourself online. 480 00:23:17,424 --> 00:23:20,784 Speaker 2: I feel really sad for her. She sounds really sad 481 00:23:20,864 --> 00:23:24,504 Speaker 2: in this. It's also really weird. Why would you pretend 482 00:23:24,784 --> 00:23:26,184 Speaker 2: to be poor? I don't know. 483 00:23:26,224 --> 00:23:27,984 Speaker 3: Oh, if I had a dollar for everyone in Australian 484 00:23:28,024 --> 00:23:30,144 Speaker 3: media and entertainment who did that, I would buy myself 485 00:23:30,184 --> 00:23:32,224 Speaker 3: a pool. That's become a real thing over the last 486 00:23:32,304 --> 00:23:34,824 Speaker 3: couple of years. Again, I'm be interested to see Anna 487 00:23:34,864 --> 00:23:37,104 Speaker 3: Paul's response, because I'm sure she'll do one. And also, 488 00:23:37,224 --> 00:23:39,824 Speaker 3: as you mentioned, hearing Mikhayla's voice kind of break there 489 00:23:39,824 --> 00:23:42,464 Speaker 3: with emotion, I think like that's a good reminder of 490 00:23:42,504 --> 00:23:44,784 Speaker 3: like how intertwined she was with this family. And she 491 00:23:44,784 --> 00:23:46,944 Speaker 3: goes on to make a series of like other really 492 00:23:46,944 --> 00:23:50,544 Speaker 3: intense allegations. There's obviously so much going on here aside 493 00:23:50,584 --> 00:23:53,424 Speaker 3: from the few moments that we're talking about, but that 494 00:23:53,584 --> 00:23:57,024 Speaker 3: idea of portraying yourself as that rags to riches I 495 00:23:57,064 --> 00:24:00,144 Speaker 3: was really poor, I think became really popular, not just 496 00:24:00,184 --> 00:24:03,344 Speaker 3: in Australia but everywhere, this idea that, like, you could 497 00:24:03,344 --> 00:24:06,064 Speaker 3: celebrate your wealth, but only if it looked like you 498 00:24:06,464 --> 00:24:08,584 Speaker 3: had earned it on your own, you'd come from something, 499 00:24:08,824 --> 00:24:12,624 Speaker 3: and so I think a lot of people romanticized themselves, 500 00:24:12,984 --> 00:24:15,104 Speaker 3: especially in the last decade, of like I grew up 501 00:24:15,104 --> 00:24:18,024 Speaker 3: with nothing and I've made something of myself. There's a 502 00:24:18,064 --> 00:24:22,304 Speaker 3: she really introving Victoria Yeah, exactly exactly. It's so Victoria 503 00:24:22,344 --> 00:24:24,504 Speaker 3: beckkind of been like we were working class. It's like, no, 504 00:24:24,584 --> 00:24:27,464 Speaker 3: we drive to school at a role exactly. There's such 505 00:24:27,464 --> 00:24:30,464 Speaker 3: a good episode of the Armchair Expert podcast as well, 506 00:24:30,744 --> 00:24:33,544 Speaker 3: where Dak Shepherd and Amy Poehler, who've been like friends 507 00:24:33,544 --> 00:24:37,384 Speaker 3: for so many years talking, Amy's like, yeah, I always 508 00:24:37,384 --> 00:24:39,624 Speaker 3: told people were so poor growing up, and I just 509 00:24:39,664 --> 00:24:41,464 Speaker 3: really wanted people to know that I'd worked for everything. 510 00:24:41,464 --> 00:24:43,064 Speaker 3: And one day my parents called me and they were like, 511 00:24:43,064 --> 00:24:44,584 Speaker 3: can you stop telling people we were poor? Like we 512 00:24:44,624 --> 00:24:46,544 Speaker 3: had like a normal house, we went to school, we 513 00:24:46,544 --> 00:24:48,184 Speaker 3: had dobs, we had food, like we weren't rich, but 514 00:24:48,224 --> 00:24:50,304 Speaker 3: we weren't poor. And she said that was a real 515 00:24:50,344 --> 00:24:52,424 Speaker 3: wake up call for her of like, oh, yeah, I 516 00:24:52,504 --> 00:24:55,024 Speaker 3: just I went so far the other way about not 517 00:24:55,024 --> 00:24:56,584 Speaker 3: trying to trick people, but I went so far on 518 00:24:56,624 --> 00:24:58,224 Speaker 3: the other way of trying to be like we weren't rich, 519 00:24:58,464 --> 00:24:59,904 Speaker 3: that I made it look like we were living on 520 00:24:59,944 --> 00:25:01,984 Speaker 3: the streets and I didn't mean to. And then Dak 521 00:25:02,024 --> 00:25:03,904 Speaker 3: Shepherd says the same thing. He's like, we went through 522 00:25:04,024 --> 00:25:06,624 Speaker 3: a moment in time where my family was like living 523 00:25:06,664 --> 00:25:08,664 Speaker 3: in like commission housing, and you know, he didn't have 524 00:25:08,664 --> 00:25:10,304 Speaker 3: a lot of money. He's like, but then my muma 525 00:25:10,464 --> 00:25:12,384 Speaker 3: into business and we had a lot of money growing 526 00:25:12,464 --> 00:25:14,304 Speaker 3: up and we traveled, and I didn't like not a 527 00:25:14,344 --> 00:25:16,184 Speaker 3: lot of money, but just again like a normal like 528 00:25:16,264 --> 00:25:18,904 Speaker 3: average income. And he's like, but I never tell people 529 00:25:19,024 --> 00:25:22,304 Speaker 3: that part, not again not to lie, but just because 530 00:25:22,384 --> 00:25:23,904 Speaker 3: I really want people to know that there was that 531 00:25:24,024 --> 00:25:26,424 Speaker 3: moment in time where we didn't have a lot. And 532 00:25:26,584 --> 00:25:28,304 Speaker 3: I think that's been the case for a lot of 533 00:25:28,304 --> 00:25:31,104 Speaker 3: famous faces. That there's so many people who when you 534 00:25:31,184 --> 00:25:34,064 Speaker 3: hear their story, they talk about growing up poor, not 535 00:25:34,104 --> 00:25:35,784 Speaker 3: having a lot, and then when you dig a beat 536 00:25:35,824 --> 00:25:37,704 Speaker 3: into it, what they mean is like we didn't go 537 00:25:37,704 --> 00:25:40,024 Speaker 3: on holidays to Europe, or I had to wear my 538 00:25:40,064 --> 00:25:42,144 Speaker 3: sister's hand me down clothes like just I think we've 539 00:25:42,144 --> 00:25:44,744 Speaker 3: forgotten what normal life looks like. And again, maybe I'm 540 00:25:44,744 --> 00:25:47,664 Speaker 3: projecting a lot onto Anna Paul and MICHAELA. But I 541 00:25:47,704 --> 00:25:50,344 Speaker 3: have heard these allegations about Anna Paul before, because such 542 00:25:50,384 --> 00:25:52,864 Speaker 3: a big part of her story is this idea of 543 00:25:52,904 --> 00:25:55,824 Speaker 3: their family being like so poor and how that's changed. 544 00:25:56,184 --> 00:25:58,184 Speaker 3: And there were like allegations about her dad living in 545 00:25:58,184 --> 00:26:00,184 Speaker 3: an event that it came out that he was just holidaying, 546 00:26:00,264 --> 00:26:02,104 Speaker 3: and there's a lot of backstory there we can't get 547 00:26:02,104 --> 00:26:02,504 Speaker 3: into it. 548 00:26:02,664 --> 00:26:04,904 Speaker 2: So what I think is interesting here is, as we 549 00:26:04,944 --> 00:26:07,584 Speaker 2: all know, Australia is known for having tall poppy syndrome. 550 00:26:08,304 --> 00:26:11,704 Speaker 2: Our big part of her content is flaunch her wealth. 551 00:26:11,784 --> 00:26:14,104 Speaker 2: But perhaps because she does it in a give that 552 00:26:14,384 --> 00:26:19,304 Speaker 2: kind of way, she maintains her humility. M do you 553 00:26:19,344 --> 00:26:21,704 Speaker 2: know what I mean? So instead of being I spend 554 00:26:21,744 --> 00:26:23,704 Speaker 2: all this money on myself and my family, we do 555 00:26:23,744 --> 00:26:27,744 Speaker 2: these really elaborate trips. It's yes, I'm a ragst riches, 556 00:26:27,784 --> 00:26:29,344 Speaker 2: but I don't forget where I came. 557 00:26:29,144 --> 00:26:31,664 Speaker 3: From, exactly, and we're happy to see Look, I'm going 558 00:26:31,744 --> 00:26:36,064 Speaker 3: to put some money in a formula jar for a surprise, Yeah, exactly. 559 00:26:36,104 --> 00:26:38,344 Speaker 3: And we're very happy to see people flaunt wealth online 560 00:26:38,344 --> 00:26:40,864 Speaker 3: as long as we think that they had earned it. 561 00:26:40,904 --> 00:26:42,704 Speaker 3: In a way, it kind of ties into the whole 562 00:26:42,744 --> 00:26:45,744 Speaker 3: like pushback against NEPO babies and stuff in recent years, 563 00:26:45,784 --> 00:26:48,064 Speaker 3: like we kind of don't care about celebrities being rich 564 00:26:48,104 --> 00:26:49,704 Speaker 3: and famous as long as they have a bit of 565 00:26:49,704 --> 00:26:51,664 Speaker 3: a story behind the scenes of how they got there. 566 00:26:51,904 --> 00:26:54,104 Speaker 3: And that was the whole flip against NEPO babies, and 567 00:26:54,104 --> 00:26:56,824 Speaker 3: I think that's kind of spilled over into the influencing world. 568 00:26:56,864 --> 00:26:59,024 Speaker 3: It's like, no one wants to be caught out having 569 00:26:59,384 --> 00:27:01,824 Speaker 3: just a normal life or not coming from hardship. 570 00:27:02,224 --> 00:27:04,544 Speaker 2: Yeah. So I think what I really want to talk 571 00:27:04,584 --> 00:27:09,264 Speaker 2: about with this is the dropping the veil and the reality. 572 00:27:09,344 --> 00:27:11,224 Speaker 2: I said dropping them out last time, but I really 573 00:27:11,224 --> 00:27:13,944 Speaker 2: do love that phrase. Now, what I really want to 574 00:27:13,944 --> 00:27:17,104 Speaker 2: talk about is Anna Paul has been portrayed as this 575 00:27:17,944 --> 00:27:21,504 Speaker 2: one person. Now I don't know if you remember, but 576 00:27:21,824 --> 00:27:23,704 Speaker 2: to what it was at two weeks ago that the 577 00:27:23,744 --> 00:27:26,584 Speaker 2: TikTok band and the US happened, there was this massive 578 00:27:26,624 --> 00:27:29,784 Speaker 2: trend going around. It's like, now that we're all going 579 00:27:29,864 --> 00:27:32,464 Speaker 2: to die the Peter Griffin clip, I have one more 580 00:27:32,544 --> 00:27:34,824 Speaker 2: thing I need to tell you. I never liked the Godfather. 581 00:27:34,984 --> 00:27:39,584 Speaker 2: So all these TikTokers were basically doing these confessions of 582 00:27:40,504 --> 00:27:43,624 Speaker 2: things that they did on the channels that were actually fake. 583 00:27:43,784 --> 00:27:49,584 Speaker 2: So this muckbang TikToker said that she never actually ate 584 00:27:49,584 --> 00:27:51,344 Speaker 2: all the food that she said that she was going 585 00:27:51,384 --> 00:27:54,064 Speaker 2: to eat. Yes, that was like a whole part of 586 00:27:54,064 --> 00:27:57,464 Speaker 2: her content. One workout person said that, oh, I don't 587 00:27:57,464 --> 00:28:00,384 Speaker 2: actually do these workouts, or I've actually got a BBL 588 00:28:00,584 --> 00:28:04,864 Speaker 2: or whatever. It might be like exposing themselves, and I 589 00:28:04,904 --> 00:28:09,864 Speaker 2: think it leads to a really interesting conversation around how 590 00:28:09,984 --> 00:28:12,344 Speaker 2: real are you supposed to be on these social media 591 00:28:12,384 --> 00:28:15,784 Speaker 2: apps and how much do we expect people to be 592 00:28:15,904 --> 00:28:19,744 Speaker 2: honest and how much trust do we put in these people? 593 00:28:20,544 --> 00:28:23,784 Speaker 2: And then potentially, why does it feel like you've been 594 00:28:23,824 --> 00:28:27,704 Speaker 2: betrayed when something isn't exactly the way it seems. 595 00:28:28,144 --> 00:28:31,064 Speaker 3: Yeah, the comments people were making in America when they 596 00:28:31,104 --> 00:28:33,624 Speaker 3: thought TikTok was going to be banned were wild because 597 00:28:33,864 --> 00:28:35,824 Speaker 3: I thought it was interesting that in one breath. A 598 00:28:35,824 --> 00:28:37,984 Speaker 3: lot of them were completely throwing away brands that they'd 599 00:28:38,024 --> 00:28:40,544 Speaker 3: spent years building up of saying like, I never actually 600 00:28:40,624 --> 00:28:42,344 Speaker 3: used this product or I never did this, so I 601 00:28:42,384 --> 00:28:44,424 Speaker 3: don't live where I said. I all these things and 602 00:28:44,464 --> 00:28:46,704 Speaker 3: at the same time pushing people to go and follow 603 00:28:46,744 --> 00:28:49,144 Speaker 3: them on YouTube and Instagram. And I was like, guys, 604 00:28:49,264 --> 00:28:51,144 Speaker 3: the lie's going to follow you over there now that 605 00:28:51,184 --> 00:28:51,704 Speaker 3: you've said it. 606 00:28:51,784 --> 00:28:55,344 Speaker 2: You're not actually dying. You realize that, right, And then when. 607 00:28:55,184 --> 00:28:57,024 Speaker 3: It tiktook popped back up a few days, as we 608 00:28:57,064 --> 00:28:59,104 Speaker 3: kind of knew it would, everyone was like a bit sheepish, 609 00:28:59,104 --> 00:29:00,864 Speaker 3: but also I guess a lot of the followers remained. 610 00:29:01,184 --> 00:29:02,624 Speaker 3: And the thing to say about this too is that 611 00:29:02,664 --> 00:29:05,384 Speaker 3: Anna Paul's really copying it, Like she hasn't said anything yet. 612 00:29:05,424 --> 00:29:08,064 Speaker 3: She obviously still has a huge following, but she's lost 613 00:29:08,104 --> 00:29:10,544 Speaker 3: a lot of followers. There's a lot of people out 614 00:29:10,584 --> 00:29:13,744 Speaker 3: there making videos about things that they alleging that she 615 00:29:13,904 --> 00:29:16,304 Speaker 3: said and done, and some of it's really intense because 616 00:29:16,304 --> 00:29:18,824 Speaker 3: obviously people love to jump on a bandwagon, and some 617 00:29:18,824 --> 00:29:20,984 Speaker 3: people are putting up videos about the real Anna Paul 618 00:29:21,064 --> 00:29:23,264 Speaker 3: and their evidence is not like someone like Mikhaela who's 619 00:29:23,304 --> 00:29:25,544 Speaker 3: known her for years and has all this intel. They're 620 00:29:25,544 --> 00:29:27,704 Speaker 3: just saying, like, oh, I met her once, and you know, 621 00:29:27,704 --> 00:29:29,264 Speaker 3: I got a really bad vibe, so I think she's 622 00:29:29,344 --> 00:29:32,024 Speaker 3: evil behind the scenes. So it's interesting how quickly people 623 00:29:32,064 --> 00:29:34,104 Speaker 3: will turn. But I think the big thing is that, like, 624 00:29:34,184 --> 00:29:36,144 Speaker 3: no matter who we idolize, Like we used to just 625 00:29:36,184 --> 00:29:39,824 Speaker 3: idolize movie stars, and then it moved over to influences 626 00:29:40,104 --> 00:29:42,704 Speaker 3: and now more took these granular kind of TikTok stars 627 00:29:42,704 --> 00:29:45,224 Speaker 3: that are the new big celebrities. But it doesn't matter 628 00:29:45,384 --> 00:29:48,704 Speaker 3: which celebrity you idolize when you find out who they are. 629 00:29:48,824 --> 00:29:50,624 Speaker 3: Even if who they are, it's just like a normal person, 630 00:29:50,904 --> 00:29:53,024 Speaker 3: you're still like you're always a little bit set up 631 00:29:53,024 --> 00:29:54,784 Speaker 3: for disappointment, I think, And I think that's a lot 632 00:29:54,784 --> 00:29:57,224 Speaker 3: of people, especially a lot of young people, who if 633 00:29:57,264 --> 00:30:00,544 Speaker 3: Anna Paul is the first person they've really idolized, they're 634 00:30:00,584 --> 00:30:03,704 Speaker 3: having their first experience right now of finding out that 635 00:30:03,824 --> 00:30:06,904 Speaker 3: someone who they love is not who they thought, not 636 00:30:06,944 --> 00:30:07,744 Speaker 3: who they thought they were. 637 00:30:07,904 --> 00:30:10,824 Speaker 2: I think it's really important because we know how fast 638 00:30:10,824 --> 00:30:13,624 Speaker 2: the news cycle moves, and we know how fast these 639 00:30:13,664 --> 00:30:16,144 Speaker 2: stories can move, So I think it's really important for 640 00:30:16,224 --> 00:30:19,344 Speaker 2: us to also take a step back before we jump 641 00:30:19,424 --> 00:30:22,904 Speaker 2: to a conclusion. Let's have him in it, take a breath, 642 00:30:23,904 --> 00:30:27,864 Speaker 2: have a look, wait exactly before we jump to conclusions. 643 00:30:27,864 --> 00:30:30,224 Speaker 2: I know we've just gone in for fifteen minutes talking 644 00:30:30,264 --> 00:30:33,144 Speaker 2: about but we're just telling you the facts here and 645 00:30:33,184 --> 00:30:35,984 Speaker 2: some of our opinions. But I do think it's really 646 00:30:36,024 --> 00:30:38,904 Speaker 2: important to have a think about before you're jumping on 647 00:30:39,024 --> 00:30:40,944 Speaker 2: being like, I hate and I don't hate Anna Paul. 648 00:30:41,824 --> 00:30:45,424 Speaker 2: I I don't know that girl, neither do. To be honest, 649 00:30:45,464 --> 00:30:48,024 Speaker 2: I had seen her stuff pop up. I was aware 650 00:30:48,064 --> 00:30:52,024 Speaker 2: of her content. I wasn't super engaged with it. However, 651 00:30:52,224 --> 00:30:54,944 Speaker 2: I'm not going to jump and say after one eight 652 00:30:54,984 --> 00:30:58,264 Speaker 2: minute video make a snap decision about someone. Think we 653 00:30:58,504 --> 00:31:01,464 Speaker 2: just everybody, this is a PSA to all of us 654 00:31:01,504 --> 00:31:07,424 Speaker 2: out there. Let's just reserve our judgment until we can 655 00:31:07,664 --> 00:31:09,064 Speaker 2: get a little bit more information. 656 00:31:09,184 --> 00:31:12,104 Speaker 3: Absolutely, And I think also so many people are making 657 00:31:12,144 --> 00:31:15,064 Speaker 3: these takedown Ana Paul videos now because they know that 658 00:31:15,064 --> 00:31:17,944 Speaker 3: that's what the algorithm is gonna favor while everyone's looking 659 00:31:17,984 --> 00:31:21,544 Speaker 3: for information. So I think the influx of evidence want 660 00:31:21,584 --> 00:31:24,944 Speaker 3: to use evidence loosely against Anna is just being put 661 00:31:24,944 --> 00:31:27,464 Speaker 3: out there to favor the algorithm, and once the story 662 00:31:27,464 --> 00:31:30,344 Speaker 3: flips the other way, it'll be videos about Michayla. But yeah, 663 00:31:30,384 --> 00:31:32,664 Speaker 3: it is a very messy situation. I think a lot 664 00:31:32,664 --> 00:31:34,904 Speaker 3: more information is going to come out from both sides 665 00:31:34,944 --> 00:31:37,024 Speaker 3: for one of a better word, until this story kind 666 00:31:37,064 --> 00:31:38,064 Speaker 3: of like runs its course. 667 00:31:38,304 --> 00:31:38,584 Speaker 5: I think. 668 00:31:38,624 --> 00:31:43,144 Speaker 2: Also just another PSA if I'm here like soapboxing, my 669 00:31:43,224 --> 00:31:45,784 Speaker 2: other pair says like, we don't have to put all 670 00:31:45,824 --> 00:31:49,904 Speaker 2: of our love into an influencer. Yes, you can like 671 00:31:49,944 --> 00:31:53,984 Speaker 2: someone's content and enjoy it without like giving your all 672 00:31:54,144 --> 00:31:54,784 Speaker 2: to them. 673 00:31:55,304 --> 00:31:57,624 Speaker 3: Well, thank you so much for listening to the show today, 674 00:31:57,824 --> 00:32:00,384 Speaker 3: And just a little note on yesterday's episode if you 675 00:32:00,464 --> 00:32:05,264 Speaker 3: listen through the Apple podcast app, a few listeners, including myself, 676 00:32:05,584 --> 00:32:09,704 Speaker 3: reported that an old Taylor Swift episode accidentally got uploaded. 677 00:32:09,984 --> 00:32:12,104 Speaker 3: It was a great episode, but obviously not the one 678 00:32:12,144 --> 00:32:16,144 Speaker 3: we intended, so that is all fixed now the actual episode, 679 00:32:16,264 --> 00:32:17,864 Speaker 3: if you missed it, you should go back and listen 680 00:32:17,904 --> 00:32:19,824 Speaker 3: because it was a really important one. We got into 681 00:32:19,864 --> 00:32:23,424 Speaker 3: Miley Cyrus family drama. Emily and I also talked about 682 00:32:23,424 --> 00:32:25,344 Speaker 3: a movie that's just been released in Australia that we 683 00:32:25,384 --> 00:32:28,144 Speaker 3: are absolutely obsessed with and we need you all to 684 00:32:28,144 --> 00:32:30,824 Speaker 3: go and watch. So if you miss that episode, Hop 685 00:32:30,864 --> 00:32:33,104 Speaker 3: back into your Apple feed and take a listen, and 686 00:32:33,184 --> 00:32:35,144 Speaker 3: we'll see you back here in your podcast feed at 687 00:32:35,144 --> 00:32:36,024 Speaker 3: three pm tomorrow. 688 00:32:36,104 --> 00:32:42,224 Speaker 2: Bye bye