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Speaker 1: You're listening to Amma Mia podcast.

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Speaker 2: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and borders

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Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on from MoMA Mia. Welcome

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Speaker 2: to the Spill, your daily pop culture fix. I'm m

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Speaker 2: Vernham and I'm a London. A little surprise, Laura Bronnick

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Speaker 2: is still somewhere on a cruise somewhere in Europe living

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Speaker 2: her best life. And West are Kids working. If you

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Speaker 2: don't know Ash, where the hell have you been?

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Speaker 1: Ash?

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Speaker 2: You filled in a few times on this podcast. You

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Speaker 2: also had a radio show, Ash London Live, and I

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Speaker 2: remember you've interviewed Tailswift, Big Deep.

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Speaker 1: It always comes off.

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Speaker 2: And you have a new podcast.

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Speaker 3: Yes, it's called Hopeless Romantics and it's all about romance

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Speaker 3: books and films.

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Speaker 1: It's pretty much me and.

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Speaker 3: Guests swooning over book boyfriends, movie boyfriends, sex scenes, romantic scene.

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Speaker 1: It's so much fun and I absolutely love doing.

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Speaker 3: It and it's a great excuse for me to just

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Speaker 3: read romance books and watch rom coms all day.

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Speaker 1: And my husband kind of even get angry.

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Speaker 3: I'll be like, we need to watch House of the Dragon,

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Speaker 3: and so it'll be like, so maybe it's work.

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Speaker 1: We have to watch.

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Speaker 2: I'm making money off of this exactly.

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Speaker 3: I'm going to watch Irish Wish starring Lindsay Lohan a

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Speaker 3: second time this week because it's well.

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Speaker 2: On the show today, we are talking about Sabrina Carpenter's

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Speaker 2: new interview with Riety. Some of the stuff Sabrina said

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Speaker 2: has got me and Ash disagreeing with each other.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I don't know what it is. Maybe it's an age thing,

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Speaker 3: maybe it's just different perspectives on her career. But I

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Speaker 3: love a bit of disagreement. There's nothing wrong with that.

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Speaker 2: There's nothing wrong.

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Speaker 1: It's what the world needs more of people disagree nicely.

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Speaker 2: I agree with our disagreement. Yeah, one hundred percent, thank you.

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Speaker 2: But first, do you have some news for me?

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Speaker 1: Yes?

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Speaker 3: I'm really excited about this because I am thirty eight

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Speaker 3: years old, which means that when The Simple Life og

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Speaker 3: as Indie Paris Shilton Nicole Richie reality TV show, when

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Speaker 3: it first came out, I was watching it in real

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Speaker 3: time and.

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Speaker 1: Understanding that you don't have to saying that history with

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Speaker 1: the show.

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Speaker 3: No.

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Speaker 2: I remember saying when I was in my Tumblr era,

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Speaker 2: like a lot of the reblogs was of Nicole Ritchie

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Speaker 2: and Paris Hilton in that era, and they looked very cool.

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Speaker 2: But that's like the most I knew about it, fair enough.

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Speaker 3: Reality TV was a very new thing. Nowadays, every TV

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Speaker 3: show on television is reality, but back then it was not.

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Speaker 3: There was no social media. It was a huge deal

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Speaker 3: to have this insight into the lives of Nicole Ritchie

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Speaker 3: and Paris Hilton, and this show was responsible for so

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Speaker 3: many quotable moments of the age. The reason we're talking

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Speaker 3: about it is because they're rebooting it, which is crazy

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Speaker 3: because they've both gone on to have huge careers and families.

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Speaker 3: We now know that we've got more backstory on them.

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Speaker 3: They probably don't even need to do this, but they're

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Speaker 3: doing it, which I think is unbelievable. So we don't

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Speaker 3: know much about it thought other than that was spotted

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Speaker 3: in Q outfits that kind of match, which I'm.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely was that.

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Speaker 2: That thing was that that thing in the.

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Speaker 3: Original The crazy thing was that Nicole Richie back then

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Speaker 3: would have been like a size twelve and free leed

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Speaker 3: f Wood was used so often to describe her and.

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Speaker 1: As a young teenager, that was very normal.

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Speaker 3: And then you look back on it now and you're like,

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Speaker 3: what the heck I do have a bit of audio

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Speaker 3: that I want to play for you, which I think

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Speaker 3: if you are not familiar with the Simple Life, is

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Speaker 3: something that will kind of contextualize it very nicely for you.

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Speaker 2: Now, do you guys hang out at Walmart? I've always

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Speaker 2: heard the people hang out at Walmart?

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Speaker 1: Why I don't want to because like they're so often.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Paris Hilton didn't know what Walmart was. That was

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Speaker 3: this one tiny grab of like over and over these girls.

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Speaker 1: They were so funny and they were so removed from reality,

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Speaker 1: but it was real. I don't think they were faking

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Speaker 1: half of it. Like, why would Paris Hilton go to Walmart?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Is this way she kind of got like her

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Speaker 2: quote unquote dumb persona was from this series because now

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Speaker 2: when you see her shows, like when she did that

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Speaker 2: Netflix series Cooking with Paris, I really liked her and

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Speaker 2: I was like, is this the kind of same persona

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Speaker 2: she was putting on like from the beginning, or has

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Speaker 2: she now kind of like shifted her ways.

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Speaker 3: It's the same persona. And when you watch it through

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Speaker 3: that lens, you realize how much she is because she

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Speaker 3: is playing a character the whole time. She knows what

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Speaker 3: to say, she knows how to play it. It's going

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Speaker 3: to be funny. And especially now that we know what

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Speaker 3: we know about Paris and how deeply traumatic her childhood was,

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Speaker 3: I think it's even more incredible to watch her go

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Speaker 3: out and just be hilarious and own this.

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Speaker 1: And I don't know what they're going to do with this.

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Speaker 3: It's such a crazy thing to reboot something twenty years

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Speaker 3: later when your lives are so different. So I have

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Speaker 3: no idea what it's going to be like, but I

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Speaker 3: hope that they go back to that kind of tongue

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Speaker 3: in cheek.

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Speaker 1: We don't know anything.

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Speaker 3: We can get away with saying kind of problem things

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Speaker 3: because it's we're the ones that are being laughed at.

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Speaker 3: I love Nicole Richie, I love Parasitalton. I'm cheering them on.

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Speaker 3: Go the simple life.

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Speaker 2: Go the simple life. You sold me, Dana Nana. So,

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Speaker 2: Sabrina Carpenter has done a new feature interview with Variety

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Speaker 2: about her life and career and her repertoire. So we

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Speaker 2: need to unpack some of the stuff, she said. The

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Speaker 2: interview starts off. I think they're in some like music store.

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Speaker 2: I love the interviews where they like have a full setting.

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Speaker 2: So I feel like I'm actually there.

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Speaker 3: It's very nineteen nineties if that doesn't happen anymore, because

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Speaker 3: we don't have a lot of these big cover stories.

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Speaker 3: And back then, yeah, the journalists would use a cafe,

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Speaker 3: they would use a cool shop, they would maybe go

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Speaker 3: to a couple of the places that the artists loved.

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Speaker 3: These days, it's like probably just on zoom, so good

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Speaker 3: on you variety.

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Speaker 2: Good on your variety. And it's so interesting that you

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Speaker 2: said it's very nineteen nineties, because I feel like that

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Speaker 2: is Sabrina Carpenter's look that she goes for. It's like

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Speaker 2: the nineties bombshell look. So maybe that was like a

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Speaker 2: little thing they were trying to get into, and they

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Speaker 2: were talking about some previous musicians that she found really interesting.

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Speaker 2: But there was a part that I just couldn't stop

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Speaker 2: thinking about, and that was when they were talking about

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Speaker 2: her relationship. So the interviewer first brought up the love

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Speaker 2: triangle Sabrina Carpenter was in with Joshua Bassett and Olivia Rodrigo.

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Speaker 2: That was I think the first time audiences who weren't

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Speaker 2: just her gen Z like Disney fans started to recognize

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Speaker 2: her because we love like a little celebrity love triangle.

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Speaker 2: And also I think that was a time where Olivia

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Speaker 2: Rodrigo was getting really big and we were like, who's

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Speaker 2: this girl she's talking about in all the songs.

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Speaker 3: So I was aware of Sabrina Carpenter before I was

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Speaker 3: aware of Olivia. But it was very obvious from the

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Speaker 3: very start with Olivia that she was about to be

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Speaker 3: absolutely huge. And what I love the most about the

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Speaker 3: whole thing is that both of the women in that

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Speaker 3: love triangle, both of their careers have exploded. And oldmate Josh,

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Speaker 3: what the fuck's he doing?

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Speaker 2: Speaking of relationships, there was a part in the interview

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Speaker 2: that I wanted to talk to you about, and it

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Speaker 2: was when she was talking about her current relationship with

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Speaker 2: Barry Kurogan, who stars in Saltburn. Everyone knows him. He

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Speaker 2: was massive on the big Oscars run. I'm just going

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Speaker 2: to read out this little excerpt which was a quote

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Speaker 2: from her. So she was talking about her new song

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Speaker 2: Please Please Please.

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Speaker 1: Please, Please Please Please.

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Speaker 2: It also stars him as her love interest in the

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Speaker 2: music video, so obviously I feel like if you put

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Speaker 2: your boyfriend in your music video, you can't avoid talking

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Speaker 2: about him, So she obviously had to spill Beans, and

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Speaker 2: she said he loved the song. He's obsessed with the lyrics,

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Speaker 2: and I'm so grateful for that. I don't want to

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Speaker 2: sound biased, but I think he's one of the best

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Speaker 2: actors of his generation. So getting to see him on

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Speaker 2: the screen with my song as a soundtrack made the

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Speaker 2: video better and all the more special.

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Speaker 3: The first of all, I just want to say, is

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Speaker 3: in my acting involved in being in a music video,

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Speaker 3: Like that's a big leak for her to be comparing

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Speaker 3: her music video to like Zalburn.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I think she was saying that she was lucky.

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Speaker 2: If I was saying this quote in the interview, if

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Speaker 2: this is me, I pretty much I would want to

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Speaker 2: talk about how my boyfriend became really big on this

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Speaker 2: massive movie called Salppurn, so I wanted to make money

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Speaker 2: off of that since I'm already in a relationship with him,

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Speaker 2: so I'm just going to put him in my music video.

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Speaker 2: Like That's the business angle that I would have approached

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Speaker 2: it with. I think calling him one of the best

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Speaker 2: actors of this generation is I wouldn't say far fetched,

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Speaker 2: but a bit too a bit too gushy for a

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Speaker 2: variety interview. That's meant to be about you and your career.

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Speaker 3: I understand what you're saying, but this is still the

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Speaker 3: honeymoon period of their relationship. I think for famous people

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Speaker 3: the honeymoon period go for longer because they're separated more

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Speaker 3: like a people like us, honeymoon is like maybe a

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Speaker 3: month because you're seeing in person every day.

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Speaker 1: When you're newly.

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Speaker 3: Into someone, you gush. Of course, you're telling oh, your

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Speaker 3: friends how amazing they are. You can't stop talking about them.

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Speaker 3: You insert them into every conversation, even when it's irrelevant.

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Speaker 3: So I think we need to extend her some grace

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Speaker 3: because that's.

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Speaker 1: What you do.

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Speaker 3: He's what I think you can do it within the

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Speaker 3: first six months of the relationship if you're famous, and

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Speaker 3: then after like six years, like if Blake Lively said

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Speaker 3: that about Ryan Reynolds, would be like, oh, the dedication

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Speaker 3: is so beautiful because they've been together a while, the

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Speaker 3: mutual admiration has grown or honeymoon period.

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Speaker 1: Anytime in between that is when I think it's cringe.

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Speaker 2: I agree that when you're in a relationship you want

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Speaker 2: to gush with your friends and family, but where not

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Speaker 2: her friends and family, like where her audience, We're on

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Speaker 2: her business side of her life, and it's not like

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Speaker 2: you and I come on this podcast and we're cushing

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Speaker 2: about your partner, like both a muscussion about your partner

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Speaker 2: or talking about like the dates I've been on or anything.

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Speaker 2: And I think it's just really risky, especially at such

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Speaker 2: impressurable age she is, she's younger than me, that she

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Speaker 2: is having this massive career, she's performing on world stages,

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Speaker 2: she's doing these massive interviews with these huge publications, and

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Speaker 2: to use up real estate of these opportunities to talk

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Speaker 2: about a boyfriend that you've been with for less than

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Speaker 2: a year, I feel like it's really risky and you

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Speaker 2: might be regretting it in a few years time.

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Speaker 3: I understand, However, I think about this, Okay. All she

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Speaker 3: can do is work with the current news cycle, work

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Speaker 3: with what's happening moment to moment to keep her career alive.

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Speaker 3: So she can't be thinking too much about the future.

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Speaker 3: She has to be thinking about in this world where

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Speaker 3: so much content is being consumed and put out in

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Speaker 3: songs and a new cycle? So quick, how do I

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Speaker 3: state in a new cycle today? And you know what,

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Speaker 3: it's worked, because what are we doing them? We're sitting

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Speaker 3: here on this podcast discussing.

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Speaker 2: It that's true is working.

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Speaker 3: Like I always say, everything is contrived, nothing is accidental.

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Speaker 3: We have to keep this in mind when it comes

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Speaker 3: to these celebrities, and it's something we're going to talk

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Speaker 3: about in part two of this episode because Taylor Swift

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Speaker 3: obviously comes into it as well. Everything these people say

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Speaker 3: is for a reason, unless they're like super new artists,

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Speaker 3: or they're coming from the Internet where there's less kind

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Speaker 3: of management and pr around it and it's sometimes a

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Speaker 3: bit more organic.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, call me skeptical. I just think.

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Speaker 3: Everything is for a reason. And like I said, she

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Speaker 3: has to stay.

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Speaker 1: In the new sackle minute to minute.

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Speaker 3: She can't be thinking about how is this going to

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Speaker 3: read in ten years because also in ten years' time,

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Speaker 3: think of all the media that would have happened in

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Speaker 3: between them and now the albums and the songs and

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Speaker 3: the gossip.

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Speaker 1: Will we even remember?

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Speaker 3: Are artists even thinking about their legacy anymore when everything

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Speaker 3: is so quick?

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Speaker 1: But I get what you're saying.

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Speaker 3: If Please, Please Please is her biggest song ever and

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Speaker 3: her boyfriend at the time is in the video.

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Speaker 1: Look that could be cringe. I'll give you that. What

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Speaker 1: if he turns out to be problematic.

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Speaker 3: What if he says something very racist and gets canceled

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Speaker 3: and then she stuck with this video.

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Speaker 1: It's the risky take, birds.

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Speaker 2: It's the risk your take. We will be getting more

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Speaker 2: into this interview after the break.

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Speaker 3: So quote from Sabrina in this writing interview, she said,

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Speaker 3: I'm nine hundred inappropriate jokes away from being a Disney actor, but.

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Speaker 1: People still see me that way now.

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Speaker 3: I don't know if it's just because we're in Australia

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Speaker 3: and all of us had the same kind of access

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Speaker 3: to Disney personas maybe I'm just too old.

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Speaker 1: But do you agree with this am? Do you see

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Speaker 1: her as still a Disney actor or.

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Speaker 2: As a post No, I don't see her as a

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Speaker 2: Disney actor. And I think what you're saying there is false.

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Speaker 2: I think that's something that Disney kids are trained to

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Speaker 2: say because the Disney kids before them said it, and

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Speaker 2: they just keep saying it and saying it. So every

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Speaker 2: time they feel like their career is kind of like

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Speaker 2: in a weird lull or like someone's questioning them, it's

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Speaker 2: like a safety net for them to be like, I'm

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Speaker 2: still trying to get out of that Disney Sace I'm

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Speaker 2: still trying to like make a name for myself. And

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Speaker 2: I don't know if that's me talking from an older

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Speaker 2: person's perspective because I was actually too old to see

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Speaker 2: her on Disney Channel. Maybe like the younger generation do

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Speaker 2: know her as a Disney star. I know her from

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Speaker 2: The Kissing Boot That's the first time I saw her,

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Speaker 2: which was a whole netflixed movie. Yeah, yeah, and I

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Speaker 2: just thought she was like really quirky, really cute, really small.

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Speaker 2: She was also in this movie called Tall Girl, which

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Speaker 2: she was like the tiny.

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Speaker 3: God she was in Tall Girls. I've never seen the

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Speaker 3: actual film. I agree with you. I think maybe it

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Speaker 3: is an Australia thing on age thing, But if anything,

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Speaker 3: I think she's just known for being so little.

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Speaker 2: So little and cute and a little like beautiful bombshell.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I might got in trouble for saying this, but I

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Speaker 2: think putting everything on like people knowing me as a

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Speaker 2: Disney actor is a bit of cop out.

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Speaker 3: Yeah maybe, and Alvisoly, if we look at like a

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Speaker 3: lot of the other artists that have tried to break

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Speaker 3: free from that, even Jojo Siwa, maybe it's an excuse

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Speaker 3: for them going very quickly, very overtly into the kind

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Speaker 3: of sexual side. Yeah, I don't know, because there's a

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Speaker 3: big difference between the year old actor and a seventeen

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Speaker 3: year old pop star. I'm you're a person and a

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Speaker 3: seventeen year old person. So I think maybe there doesn't

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Speaker 3: need to be an excuse because people should just understand

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Speaker 3: that now and you think, oh, she's saying the A word,

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Speaker 3: and then I'm like, oh, she's in her mid third.

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Speaker 1: It's like she's allowed. Maybe we just need to be

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Speaker 1: like that've grown up.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, they're growing up, Miley.

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Speaker 1: Like that is that whole like smoking weed, hump and stuff.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I one hundred percent agree like Britney Spears Miley,

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Speaker 2: I think they definitely went through the whole, like trying

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Speaker 2: to escape the Disney branding, and I think because of them,

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Speaker 2: we become more forgiving of the next generation who were

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Speaker 2: Disney stars. But I don't think Sabrina Carpenter really had

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Speaker 2: that issue, and I don't think she should blame people

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Speaker 2: seeing her as a Disney actor on like where her

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Speaker 2: career is now.

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Speaker 3: Let's be honest, if you look at her discography, she's

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Speaker 3: made a lot of music. She's not like one album

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Speaker 3: d but I think she needs to maybe give her

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Speaker 3: suff a bit more credit, if anything, and maybe give

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Speaker 3: audience is a bit more credit.

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Speaker 1: Especially younger generations now, like they're just more forgiving, they're

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Speaker 1: more aware of the world.

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Speaker 3: We're more forgiving in women being sexualized, I mean, not

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Speaker 3: as much as we should. Yeah, she does talk about

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Speaker 3: it a lot, this whole like Disney style, I'm trying

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Speaker 3: to get out of it. I think now it's time

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Speaker 3: to just embrace the new her and where her career

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Speaker 3: is at at the moment and just kind of move

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Speaker 3: on from it. But like you said, that's such a

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Speaker 3: great point. She's taking cues off the people that have

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Speaker 3: gone before. But yeah, she's like worked.

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Speaker 1: Really hard to re establish herself, like she too with

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Speaker 1: f Taylor Swift.

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Speaker 2: For goodness sakes, Like speaking of Taylor Swift, she did

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Speaker 2: talk about her and talking about taking cues. I think

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Speaker 2: she takes a lot of cues from Taylor.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, And I think especially when we imagine I don't

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Speaker 3: want to use the word contrived because it's not contrived.

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Speaker 1: Maybe this little bit, but there are teams of people

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Speaker 1: around the likes of Sabrina Carpenter and Taylor Swift.

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Speaker 3: Everything is more controlled than we think. So I think

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Speaker 3: for this Variety interview, there would have been meetings with

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Speaker 3: PR people. There would have been meetings with marketing, with

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Speaker 3: the teams to really go over the messaging, the kind

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Speaker 3: of responses we're going to be giving, the kind of

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Speaker 3: things we want to put out, which is especially important

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Speaker 3: when we think about the fact that this interview did

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Speaker 3: touch on the Skims campaign that Sabrina did. Now, for

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Speaker 3: those who don't know Kim kardashi and tell Us, I

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Speaker 3: have got some history. Kim Kardashian owns Skims. Sabrina did

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Speaker 3: a Skims campaign while still in Taylor's inner circle. I

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Speaker 3: think she just wrapped up the era's support when she

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Speaker 3: did it.

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Speaker 1: It was very close together. I corrected, it was a lot.

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Speaker 2: I have a feeling she was out here in Pellegrino

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Speaker 2: in Surrey Hills that all went down.

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Speaker 3: Yes, So she has given a quote in this interview.

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Speaker 3: She said the post about me having to ask for permission. No,

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Speaker 3: she's one of my best best friends and we grabbed

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Speaker 3: dinner or text and catch up like you would with

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Speaker 3: your best friend, which is a great quote. Makes Taylor

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Speaker 3: look good, It makes her look good. It comes out

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Speaker 3: of beef when we think about it, like she couldn't

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Speaker 3: say no to it? What if it got out that

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Speaker 3: she said no, and then Taylor Swift looks bad because

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Speaker 3: it's like you're stopping your friend from making money.

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Speaker 1: I think, and this thought has just come to me.

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Speaker 3: Oh, I think it's genius by Kim Kardashian because if

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Speaker 3: Kim Kardashian reached out off with the contract and then

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Speaker 3: it was like snubbed by Sabrina, that's a worse look

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Speaker 3: for Taylor.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a headline right there. But I also think

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Speaker 2: it's genius for Taylor because one hundred percent, like I

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Speaker 2: know she said she didn't, but I am certain that

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Speaker 2: Sabrina Carpenter would have had to ask Taylor Swift, of course,

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Speaker 2: can I do this discussion?

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Speaker 3: At the very least, Sabrina's people called Taylor's people and yes,

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Speaker 3: this is the thing. How are we going to handle this?

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Speaker 3: What's the messaging going to be? And they all would

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Speaker 3: have agreed.

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Speaker 2: They would have agreed, and Taylor's team would have been like,

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Speaker 2: you just have to talk about how great Taylor Swift

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Speaker 2: is as a friend, because every time she talks about

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Speaker 2: the skims campaign, it's always accompanied with how good Taylor

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Speaker 2: Swift is as a friend, and.

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Speaker 1: She's the best theories. Her people are the best series.

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Speaker 1: She's the best theories. She will turn any situation that happened.

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Speaker 3: She could run over an old person and would all

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Speaker 3: be thinking at the end of it.

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Speaker 1: It's the best little win win. Yes, Sabrina wins, Taylor win.

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Speaker 2: It's literally like the perfect case study of how to

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Speaker 2: navigate business within a feud YEP.

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Speaker 1: Couldn't agree more. Wrap it up, Wrap it up ten

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Speaker 1: out of ten. Love done, girls.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much for listening to The Spill today.

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Speaker 2: Thank you Ash for joining us. This was so much fun.

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Speaker 3: It's always so lovely to be on this podcast and

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Speaker 3: just have a chat about the stuff I actually care about.

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Speaker 2: Isn't that great We were going to talk about it.

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Speaker 2: It's just like girl chat. Yes, we will be putting

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Speaker 2: links in our show notes for everything we talked about today.

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Speaker 2: And while you're in your podcast app, can you please

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00:19:07,424 --> 00:19:09,704
Speaker 2: do us a favor click the follow But it not

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00:19:09,744 --> 00:19:11,984
Speaker 2: a lot of people follow us, but you listen to us,

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Speaker 2: Come on, come on us, We know you want to.

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00:19:15,424 --> 00:19:18,944
Speaker 2: You listen to every episode. We will really appreciate it. Also,

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Speaker 2: Ash London. Our bestie is back tomorrow, so you'll hear us.

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Speaker 2: You'll hear from us at three pm.

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Speaker 1: Bye bye God,