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Speaker 1: So much. You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast.

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Speaker 2: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waders

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Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on from Mamma Mia. Welcome

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Speaker 2: to the Spill your daily pop culture Fixed. I'm Laura

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Speaker 2: Brodney and I'm Kissei Lukitch and coming up on the

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Speaker 2: show today, the Grammy nominations are out for twenty twenty six.

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Speaker 2: We have some very good surprises, we have some very

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Speaker 2: disappointing snubs. We have a little bit of drama brewing,

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Speaker 2: so we're getting get into that. Plus we have to

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Speaker 2: talk again about Kim Kardashians show All Fair, because it

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Speaker 2: has premiered to a huge amount of controversy and then

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Speaker 2: maybe a bit of redemption on Kim side. But I

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Speaker 2: think there's a bigger story brewing behind the scenes that

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Speaker 2: we have to talk about. But first, so this did

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Speaker 2: happen last week? Jonathan Bailey, star of Wicked, Star of Bridgeton,

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Speaker 2: at least at star of My Heart And maybe that's

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Speaker 2: too much think this balad. It is spalad. I know

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Speaker 2: it felt so weirdly parasocially proud of a sexiest man alive.

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Speaker 2: When I heard the News last week. I was just

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Speaker 2: feel like he was my brother or my friend.

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Speaker 1: I actually squealed when I saw it because I was

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Speaker 1: so excited. I had the same reaction like whenever I've

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Speaker 1: seen the other Sexiest Men Alive. I've never been this

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Speaker 1: excited about it. Yeah, and there is definitely a reason

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Speaker 1: for that.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I think it's just like the overall general love

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Speaker 2: that people have for him. Plus, after the whole John

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Speaker 2: Krasinski debacle last year, I feel like the Sexiest Man

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Speaker 2: Alive title was feeling a little bit dull because the

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Speaker 2: thing is like people always say, like it should be

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Speaker 2: this person, it should be that person, but the person

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Speaker 2: has to agree to it, and that's always the catch.

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Speaker 2: Like a lot of really big stars, especially the ones

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Speaker 2: who see themselves as very serious actors, don't want to

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Speaker 2: do Sexiest Man Alive and do the cover story and

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Speaker 2: do the photo shoot and do all the interviews. So

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Speaker 2: Jonathan Bailey saying yes, I think was such a good sport,

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Speaker 2: and especially because it's happened during the Wicked press tour,

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Speaker 2: so we had all the visuals of him telling his

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Speaker 2: cast mates and their reactions to it.

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Speaker 1: I know, I absolutely loved it, and I think probably

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Speaker 1: my favorite was Jeff Goldblum's reaction because it's really special.

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Speaker 1: Let's have a listen. I feel the way of history

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Speaker 1: of all the sexy men that came before me.

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Speaker 2: You stand on the sexy shoulders, listen.

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Speaker 1: There's nothing sexier than progress. Progress. Yeah, because you know,

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Speaker 1: you know, me being sexy, the first gay man to

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Speaker 1: be sexy man. Oh yes, yes, yes, sat is progress. Absolutely.

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Speaker 1: I call him Bailey's crem Bailey's crim If you leave

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Speaker 1: me out, I curdle. Oh my goddle, it's so cute.

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Speaker 2: E's doing it. He's like progress.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: But that's the most serious I've ever seen him, because

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Speaker 2: usually those do an interview together are just off the rails,

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Speaker 2: like everyone I know who's interview and like they just

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Speaker 2: don't give full answer. They're always laughing together. But that

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Speaker 2: was really sweet.

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Speaker 1: Jeff Goblin has this the most amazing energy when he

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Speaker 1: talks to people, and he's got that really big the

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Speaker 1: arms and he's always like oh yes, yes, yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: and just how genuine he was. He was so confused

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Speaker 1: by it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but it is.

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Speaker 1: He's the first Open the Game man to win sex

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Speaker 1: Exign Alive, which is definitely a huge thing. So often

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Speaker 1: in early Hollywood gay men were stopped from coming out

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Speaker 1: because it would hinder they're being marketable as like leading men.

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Speaker 1: So it is actually progressive, even though it is kind

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Speaker 1: of a silly thing to be.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, he just said the weight of sexy people,

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Speaker 2: but he's also probably feeling the weight and like the

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Speaker 2: specialness of being this kind of first openly gay leading

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Speaker 2: man who's been celebrated across Hollywood as people talk about

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Speaker 2: him being a gay man, how special that is, but

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Speaker 2: also being able to play a straight role, because that

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Speaker 2: was always the thing people saying, like you've got to

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Speaker 2: pick a lane, like you've got to be one or

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Speaker 2: the other. So seeing him be known as like a

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Speaker 2: romantic leading man but also playing all these other parts

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Speaker 2: as well is really cool. Did you read the interview

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Speaker 2: that went with his photo shoot? I?

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Speaker 1: I did. I did.

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Speaker 2: It was there were so many moments in there. I'm

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Speaker 2: just like, I feel like we're talking about the sexy

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Speaker 2: photos and like the sexy hymn, but like when he

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Speaker 2: was talking about what made him cry the last time,

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Speaker 2: and like what gets him really emotional? And I thought

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Speaker 2: it's gonna be something from the Wicked Tour because obviously

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Speaker 2: they're churing out for the last time the new movie

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Speaker 2: coming out, but he was talking about how close he

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Speaker 2: is to all his sisters. He's got a lot of

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Speaker 2: sisters and they all have kids, and he's like, Oh,

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Speaker 2: my oldest niece got made People of the Week at school.

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Speaker 2: He's like, can I just tear it up because that's

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Speaker 2: so special and she's the next generation. I was like,

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Speaker 2: stop at Jonathan Bailey.

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Speaker 1: I know, he's just such a proud little uncle.

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Speaker 2: I know.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like you get that too, because you're

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Speaker 1: very proud auntie.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it is a very when that's like a huge

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Speaker 2: part of your personality just seeps out all the time.

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Speaker 2: The other thing I wanted to point out with this

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Speaker 2: is like, I know we've all been talking about Jonathan

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Speaker 2: Bailey and the sexiness of him, and that's so important.

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Speaker 1: Very valid, breaking news.

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Speaker 2: And so important to talk about. But I don't know

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Speaker 2: if people realize that. People Magazine out there doing the

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Speaker 2: lord's work also did a Sexiest Week where they teamed

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Speaker 2: up a bunch of sexy reunions with male heart throbs

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Speaker 2: of iconic TV shows. Yeah, this was so important. Why

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Speaker 2: is talking about stop the press is important? Well, people

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Speaker 2: are talking about in a way of like some of

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Speaker 2: the clips were getting pulled. But I guess, like, you know,

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Speaker 2: it's fair enough. John Bailey's sexiness is all encapsulating, like

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Speaker 2: it's I feel like it was almost too much. It

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Speaker 2: was too much for one magazine sexiness. It was too much.

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Speaker 2: Laura Brodneck, let me tell you, these are all my favorite things.

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Speaker 2: So I had a bunch of different male actors from

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Speaker 2: iconic TV shows team up to have a reunion where

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Speaker 2: they just talked about the fandom of their TV shows,

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Speaker 2: their characters and how much people love them. So you

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Speaker 2: had Friday night Lights stars Zach Gilfin and Scott Porter

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Speaker 2: team up. We also had this was so important Chad

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Speaker 2: Michael Murray and James Lafferty from One Tree Hill. Have

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Speaker 2: you watched One Tree Hill?

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Speaker 1: Don't get mad of it?

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Speaker 2: Can.

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Speaker 1: I wasn't a big One Troe Hill fan, but I

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Speaker 1: do love Chad Michael Murray. Oh, you know, Cinderella a

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Speaker 1: story important, very very important part of my Freaky Friday

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Speaker 1: all the wait, oh my god, iconic.

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Speaker 2: And what I love too is that all these actors

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Speaker 2: all in their forties now, and so they're at a

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Speaker 2: stage where they're so happy to talk about the shows

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Speaker 2: that made them like really famous as teens in a

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Speaker 2: really endearing way they didn't want to do early in

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Speaker 2: their careers. I will also say that One Tree Hill

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Speaker 2: is one of those teen dramas that holds up on

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Speaker 2: a rewatch today. Not completely, but it's still a really

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Speaker 2: interesting watch if anyone hasn't watched it. There's like eight

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Speaker 2: seasons of just crazy teen drama perfection. It's so good.

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Speaker 2: But they were asked about their show and they took

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Speaker 2: it so seriously because so it's Chad mink l Murray

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Speaker 2: and James Latharty on the show. They play these half

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Speaker 2: brothers who were rivals in high school and grew up

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Speaker 2: not knowing each other and then become best friends. And

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Speaker 2: they both have these like very iconic love stories. And

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Speaker 2: they were asked about which of the love stories was better,

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Speaker 2: and they both decided it was the Nathan and Hailey,

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Speaker 2: which I love. Fans of One Tree Hill will get that.

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Speaker 2: We also straight over my head. Sorry, that's okay. Fans

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Speaker 2: of One Tree Hill will just be like, we get it,

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Speaker 2: Like read the full article for all the fandom stuff there.

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Speaker 2: Here's another one that I paint a lot to you,

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Speaker 2: but I.

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Speaker 1: No, no, I know, and I'm going to set this

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Speaker 1: up for you. There was one particular duo that would

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Speaker 1: have been very very special to you. And anyone who

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Speaker 1: is a fan of the Podge will understand the excitement

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Speaker 1: of Laura describing this particular throwback.

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Speaker 2: Copy will not just meet you or Gilmore Girls fans

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Speaker 2: because the stars they took from Gilmore Girls. So it

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Speaker 2: was Jared Peladecci who plays Dean, and Matt Zuker who

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Speaker 2: plays Logan. So obviously they are part of if you're

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Speaker 2: not across Gilmore Girls, weird of you, but anyway.

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Speaker 1: But they're not the main guys in Gilmore Girls.

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Speaker 2: So the whole thing about Gilmore Girls is it's actually

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Speaker 2: meant to be a three generational story of three women,

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Speaker 2: which it is like that's the main focus, but also

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Speaker 2: Rory Gilmour, one of the leads, has three main boyfriends

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Speaker 2: throughout the show. Jared Peladecci plays Dean, who was her

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Speaker 2: first high school boyfriend revisited in later seasons, and her

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Speaker 2: second boyfriend, Jess played by Milo Ventimidlier her bad boy

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Speaker 2: also high school boyfriend, and then Matt Jujurie plays Logan,

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Speaker 2: who is her boyfriend through college and through the later

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Speaker 2: parts of the show, and there's always been this huge

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Speaker 2: thing with the fans of which boyfriend is the best,

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Speaker 2: which boyfriend should have ended up with Rory. It's such

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Speaker 2: a contentious, huge issue that Alexis Pladell will not speak

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Speaker 2: on it, like, don't ask her. Lauren Graham, who plays

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Speaker 2: Laura like Gilmore on the show, said she will never

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Speaker 2: give an answer to that question because it gets the

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Speaker 2: fans too. Rather, when she was interviewing Kelly Bishop on stage,

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Speaker 2: who plays her mum on the show, Emily Gilmore, she answered,

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Speaker 2: and Lauren Graham's like, will you just take your life

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Speaker 2: and your own hands like that? Why would you say it?

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Speaker 1: Okay, what's your thought on it?

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Speaker 2: Actually, we don't even know if I have a real

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Speaker 2: answer to that. I think after watching Gilmore Girls a

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Speaker 2: year in the life, I wanted her to end up

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Speaker 2: with Jess. I feel like that.

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Speaker 1: Is the He was definitely really good to her.

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Speaker 2: I love how you just jumping in with the knowledge

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Speaker 2: that you have on that deans are hard. No, I

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Speaker 2: don't hate it as much as other people do. I

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Speaker 2: was all on her home logo when they got together.

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Speaker 2: But I think maybe if the show did come back,

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Speaker 2: which I don't think it's going to, but I would

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Speaker 2: love to see Rory and Jess.

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Speaker 1: What about the man? Isn't it the man that owns

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Speaker 1: the cafe?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, that's that's that question there, and Laura I

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Speaker 2: some stuff, Yeah, yeah, one hundred percent. So when they asked, yeah,

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Speaker 2: you know, you know some stuff, I actually think you

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Speaker 2: should watch it because you would like it.

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Speaker 1: If we've watched like a couple of episodes. Yeah, I'm

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Speaker 1: just not really the passion he was showing right now.

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Speaker 1: He's infectious. Yeah, it's making mean literally all I came

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Speaker 1: about it.

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Speaker 2: Pretend to out other stuff for work anyway. So Jared

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Speaker 2: Peladekey was asked who should Rory have ended up with,

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Speaker 2: and he said, and this is so contentious because Dean,

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Speaker 2: his character, hates this character. He said, I'm team Jess.

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Speaker 2: Funnily enough, he said, just knowing the show and having

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Speaker 2: some idea of where Rory was in her life, they

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Speaker 2: were all flawed, let's be clear. Yeah, they definitely were.

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Speaker 2: Well he as well. I'll say Dean was flawed. But

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Speaker 2: they all had their issues. But today I'm teen Jess.

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Speaker 2: And then Matt who plays Logan on the show, says

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Speaker 2: it's kind of changed for me over the course of time,

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Speaker 2: but then he decided to stick with his own character

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Speaker 2: and said, I could really see Logan coming back and

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Speaker 2: being with Rory, but it would just be a completely

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Speaker 2: different place in his life. Though. The cute takeaway I

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Speaker 2: think is something that you would get is that these

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Speaker 2: are just men who are like again, well into their

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Speaker 2: forties now playing all these other iconic characters. They both

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Speaker 2: had huge TV shows, The Residents, Supernatural, Walker, Texas Ranger

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Speaker 2: or all these big shows. But they're just sitting down

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Speaker 2: and talking very endearingly about these characters that started their

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Speaker 2: careers just for the fans.

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Speaker 1: And because people love nostalgia.

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Speaker 2: Nostule, Yeah, exactly. So they're all the sexy reunions that

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Speaker 2: came with Sexiest Man Alive, and I just thought it

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Speaker 2: was important to highlight it's just been a sexy week.

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Speaker 1: It's been a very sexy Weekana Nana, So Laura. The

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Speaker 1: Grammy nominations are out and we've got some serious snubs here,

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Speaker 1: but there's also some really nice surprises. Let's start off

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Speaker 1: with like the main ones, and then we can kind

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Speaker 1: of go into some of the ones that were the

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Speaker 1: most surprising, So Kendrick Lamar not surprising. He's basically got

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Speaker 1: nine nominations top nominee of the whole night. He's actually

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Speaker 1: won twenty two Grammys since twenty fifteen, and he only

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Speaker 1: needs four more to become the most awarded rapper in

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Speaker 1: Grammy's history. The first is Jay Z, who has twenty five.

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Speaker 1: So that's awesome. Kendrick Lamar very very intalented. We've got

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Speaker 1: Lady Gaga and Sabrina Carpenter who are also leading nominations

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Speaker 1: in those sort of key categories, which is the Record

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Speaker 1: of the Year, Album of the Year, and Song of

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Speaker 1: the Year. Can I ask you, do you know what

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Speaker 1: the difference is between Record of the Year and Song

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Speaker 1: of the Year?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Is Record of the Year? I'm probably gonna explain

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Speaker 2: this well, so song of the Year is just the

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Speaker 2: actual song, right, But Record of the Year is that

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Speaker 2: more celebrating, like the team around it and the production? Yes?

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Speaker 1: Yes, I just had to double check that because I've

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Speaker 1: seen so many people be like, what the hell is

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Speaker 1: the difference between these? Yes?

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Speaker 2: And look, I feel like in that industry and the

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Speaker 2: people who are in it, like, the difference is huge.

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Speaker 2: But to the casual Byastandard. You might not know, but yes,

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Speaker 2: song is the actual song, and then pred it's the production.

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Speaker 1: And like the songwriter and who wrote it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, is that mixing and the and neal that sort

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Speaker 2: of stuff.

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Speaker 1: That's why it's still one of like the biggest categories.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, they've basically taken the sweep of all of

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Speaker 1: those major categories. But there are some serious shocks in

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Speaker 1: this and ones that I think really speak to the

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Speaker 1: politics behind the Grammys a little bit. First of all,

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Speaker 1: So Lord didn't get a single nomination for So Virgent

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Speaker 1: to Me, So Virgin was super critically acclaimed. It was

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Speaker 1: her first album since like twenty twenty one. People are

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Speaker 1: really pissed off about this one.

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Speaker 2: It's so hard because all of these creative award industries

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Speaker 2: are so subjective, and it's like the Oscars. I think

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Speaker 2: Oscars is just a bit more outright with who they

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Speaker 2: favor and like how a campaign will get you a nomination,

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Speaker 2: So getting the right people onside, spending the right amount

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Speaker 2: of time with voters, having the right amount of also

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Speaker 2: the amount of money you put into your campaign, And

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Speaker 2: I think the Grammys is like that to an extent too.

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Speaker 2: It's very much about like who you know and who

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Speaker 2: you're campaigning with, and like it has come out that

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Speaker 2: like there are just some singers who either shunned because

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Speaker 2: the people in the Recording Academy are just I guess

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Speaker 2: not people they schmooze or interact with. It could come

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Speaker 2: down down to the money behind their campaigns. Like it

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Speaker 2: is so subjective.

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Speaker 1: It feels very The Recording Academy feels to me quite

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Speaker 1: caddy because they really seem to hold grudget. So the

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Speaker 1: theory behind her not getting any nominations is that because

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Speaker 1: back in twenty eighteen, her LP Melodrama was nominated for

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Speaker 1: the Album of the Year, but the Recording Academy didn't

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Speaker 1: ask her to perform on the night. Now, that seems

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Speaker 1: like a small thing, but when you compare it to

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Speaker 1: the fact that every other artist who was nominated in

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Speaker 1: that category was given a performance slot. And then she

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Speaker 1: seemingly kind of took a dig at them when she

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Speaker 1: took out this one page ad in a newspaper, you know,

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Speaker 1: saying thanks everyone for supporting women in music. There's this

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Speaker 1: theory that they kind of maybe holding a bit of a.

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Speaker 2: Grudge on I do believe that is true because of

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Speaker 2: any musicians who say anything against the Recording Academy or

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Speaker 2: the Grummys, even if they're just saying on behalf of

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Speaker 2: a fellow artist, can feel the repercussions of that for

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Speaker 2: years to come.

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Speaker 1: And our second example of that is the Weekend Yes

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Speaker 1: So again another artist who has had a very very

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Speaker 1: sort of checkered past with the Recording Academy, so he

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Speaker 1: basically boycotted the Grammys for like four years. He returned

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Speaker 1: this year, so back in February of twenty five, he performed,

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Speaker 1: and it kind of seemed like he was letting it go.

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Speaker 1: It's done, We're brushing it away, I'm moving on. But

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Speaker 1: he didn't get any nominations this year, which is crazy

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Speaker 1: to me because he did actually call them corrupt, which

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Speaker 1: I was gonna say. He didn't just insinuate it. He

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Speaker 1: didn't take out and add anything like that. He put

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Speaker 1: out like a full statement. That is one of the

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Speaker 1: most damning things I've ever read about the Grammys, and

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Speaker 1: I think for a lot of people, if you're not

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Speaker 1: super across, it was the first time you just really

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Speaker 1: realized how volatile that situation was and how many artists

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Speaker 1: had a problem with it, and who had been left

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Speaker 1: out over time, because yeah, he called it corrupt and

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Speaker 1: dirty dealings and like people holding against him and taking

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Speaker 1: out artists and all this sort of stuff. And it

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Speaker 1: was this huge thing where a lot of people expected

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Speaker 1: all these big Grammy winning artists to share it, and

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Speaker 1: then many of them didn't because they all know if

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Speaker 1: they kind of put a foot wrong with the Recording

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Speaker 1: Academy or with the Grammys organizers, then they'll be punished

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Speaker 1: for years to come. And everyone was like, well, if

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Speaker 1: he's doing that, he's just kind of making a statement

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Speaker 1: that he will never interact with the Grammys again, and

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Speaker 1: he must feel and I guess also, he's one of

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Speaker 1: the biggest artists in the world, so like he can

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Speaker 1: sustain his own career without the Grammys, which I do

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Speaker 1: think is true. So him performing with the Grammys is

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Speaker 1: he was such a huge thing. But I do wonder

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Speaker 1: if he knew and the organizers. I feel like there

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Speaker 1: was this sense when he was up on stage performing

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Speaker 1: everyone was like, this is kind of nice, but not enough.

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Speaker 2: Nothing will make up for that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's almost like he's tried to bury the hatchet

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Speaker 1: a little bit, but it's not been enough. And it

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Speaker 1: feels a bit more snubby because he's kind of tried

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Speaker 1: to extend an olive branch, so to speak, and he's

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Speaker 1: been snubbed again. So that's that money is super interesting.

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Speaker 1: One that is really good though, is bad Bunny.

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Speaker 2: Yeah? That was fun.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, I love him so much. I just

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Speaker 1: think he's the sweetest. I basically fell in love with

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Speaker 1: him more on SNL than I have with anything else,

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Speaker 1: like his acting. Him doing that Shrek bit was one

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Speaker 1: of my all time favorite things. You know, he's obviously

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Speaker 1: performing at the super Bowl. He was nominated for six

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Speaker 1: awards and his album DTMF is nominated for Album of

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Speaker 1: the Years, only the second time that a Spanish speaking

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Speaker 1: album has been nominated in that category. The first time

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Speaker 1: was also him.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, correctly. Yeah, for all those people being like he

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Speaker 2: shouldn't be headlining the super Bowl, he's not big enough.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I have other ideas of who potentially should

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Speaker 2: be making, you know, headlining the super Bowl halftime show.

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Speaker 2: But I don't think he's a bad choice. I don't

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Speaker 2: think he's a bad choice of when people are saying

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Speaker 2: like he's not well known enough, he definitely is well

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Speaker 2: known enough.

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Speaker 1: Definitely. One more that I really really love is and

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Speaker 1: Ariana grand.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that was the one I wanted to talk about

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Speaker 2: because they found out while they were doing press for

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Speaker 2: the new Wicked movie, so they were staying there together

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Speaker 2: and then you just hear like Cynthia Rivo be told

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Speaker 2: about her Grammy nomination and Ariana Grande just drops to

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Speaker 2: the floor and I love them. So I love the

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Speaker 2: dramatics of this press too. Obviously it's not gonna be

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Speaker 2: the same as the first one because.

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Speaker 1: We're not holding space.

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Speaker 2: You can't, yeah, exactly, you can't sort of recreate that moment.

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Speaker 2: But I was just like, oh, I've mister gals, and

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Speaker 2: you're crazy antics because Ariana Granda just falls to the

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Speaker 2: floor and like starts bowing.

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Speaker 1: They're just such theater kids.

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Speaker 2: I just love it, and Cynthia is so shocked and

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Speaker 2: they're all just so happy and it was really sweet.

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Speaker 1: So one of the reasons why this is such a

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Speaker 1: shock is because they were nominated for I think three awards,

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Speaker 1: but Define Gravity was in the Best Duo Group Performance. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and that's typically a pop category, so they're alongside like

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Speaker 1: Apata and Golden That's why it's unusual. Yeah, but I'm

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Speaker 1: so here for it because define Gravity is one of

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Speaker 1: the most incredible songs. And I don't know if you

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Speaker 1: saw those showcase clips of Wicked showcase that they did

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Speaker 1: and Cynthia Arrivo singing defying gragvity, hanging from the air

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Speaker 1: in a harness and hitting that final note. I was like,

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Speaker 1: this woman deserves all of the awards. Give her a Grammy,

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Speaker 1: give her an Oscar, give her like a full egot

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Speaker 1: right now, because I just adore her.

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Speaker 2: Well so kindly. They're going really really hard for those

404
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Speaker 2: Oscar nominations this year because obviously last year there was

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Speaker 2: a sense that because the first movie was so well received,

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Speaker 2: they could potentially take them out. But it's also when

407
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Speaker 2: you know the second movie is coming, you've got to

408
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Speaker 2: wait for that. Especially Cynthia Rivo apparently like their studio

409
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Speaker 2: is just throwing everything behind getting her the win for

410
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Speaker 2: the Oscar this year. And what happened.

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Speaker 1: I mean that showcase I think is a perfect marketing thing,

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Speaker 1: even though it was done very well.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, like the campine has to start. Now, that's

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Speaker 2: the thing. If you let's that's we're not but Oscar campaigns.

415
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Speaker 2: But you can't be too overt with it. You have

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Speaker 2: to sort of late, like you have to bread crumb

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Speaker 2: it now and then go really harder the two months

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Speaker 2: leading up to it. So yeah, I think that's what

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Speaker 2: we're seeing now, and like, well deserved.

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Speaker 1: I would say that, so well deserved. Anyway, those were

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Speaker 1: kind of the biggest ones. The Grammy Awards are on

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Speaker 1: February first of next year, so we've got a little

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Speaker 1: bit of time to wait for that.

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Speaker 2: Bana na na. Okay, So we need to talk about

425
00:18:18,024 --> 00:18:21,224
Speaker 2: All's Fair, the new Ryan Murphy show starring Kim Kardashian

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Speaker 2: and a whole list of a list actresses. So obviously

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Speaker 2: in the lead up to the show, we talked a

428
00:18:25,344 --> 00:18:27,744
Speaker 2: lot about it, especially because we had all the lead

429
00:18:27,824 --> 00:18:28,824
Speaker 2: cast on the show.

430
00:18:29,104 --> 00:18:31,464
Speaker 1: Yes, now, Laura, you interviewed them. We did a special

431
00:18:31,504 --> 00:18:35,304
Speaker 1: on that last week. You were away last week in Hawaii,

432
00:18:35,704 --> 00:18:38,304
Speaker 1: which yes, you were in hawaiis to meet these Mantareys,

433
00:18:38,784 --> 00:18:40,304
Speaker 1: and I was so excited when you came back. So

434
00:18:40,384 --> 00:18:41,984
Speaker 1: I was like, we have to talk about this because

435
00:18:42,224 --> 00:18:44,664
Speaker 1: over the weekend and since the release of All's Fair,

436
00:18:45,144 --> 00:18:49,864
Speaker 1: the critics have absolutely panned this show and there's so

437
00:18:49,984 --> 00:18:51,024
Speaker 1: much to unpack here.

438
00:18:51,304 --> 00:18:55,104
Speaker 2: Yes, it was an interesting rollout because they obviously did

439
00:18:55,104 --> 00:18:58,064
Speaker 2: a huge amount of worldwide press. They also had this

440
00:18:58,144 --> 00:19:01,304
Speaker 2: huge world press tour where in multiple countries they had

441
00:19:01,304 --> 00:19:04,304
Speaker 2: these big red carpets, The whole cast was there, the

442
00:19:04,344 --> 00:19:06,864
Speaker 2: looks were happening that you know, it was this huge thing.

443
00:19:06,904 --> 00:19:09,304
Speaker 2: It's felt like the rollout of a movie premiere, all

444
00:19:09,344 --> 00:19:12,424
Speaker 2: the rollout of like a huge prestige drama who was

445
00:19:12,464 --> 00:19:15,584
Speaker 2: in its final season. And an interesting point of that

446
00:19:15,584 --> 00:19:18,344
Speaker 2: that we did bring up in our cast interview episodes

447
00:19:18,464 --> 00:19:20,024
Speaker 2: which will link in the show notes because you haven't

448
00:19:20,024 --> 00:19:21,664
Speaker 2: listened to it. Well, they didn't try to buy me

449
00:19:21,744 --> 00:19:24,504
Speaker 2: or any other journalist I know with screeners for the

450
00:19:24,544 --> 00:19:27,704
Speaker 2: show beforehand or any kind of real detail. You know

451
00:19:27,704 --> 00:19:29,464
Speaker 2: how usually for an interview they also send you through

452
00:19:29,504 --> 00:19:32,424
Speaker 2: like the full press pack with like breakdowns of the

453
00:19:32,504 --> 00:19:35,704
Speaker 2: cast characters and little tidbits, and they'll also often give

454
00:19:35,744 --> 00:19:38,984
Speaker 2: you like infoll about episodes happening later on, like we

455
00:19:39,184 --> 00:19:42,304
Speaker 2: really were just going in blind. And the whole kind

456
00:19:42,344 --> 00:19:44,864
Speaker 2: of point of the press run with both the red

457
00:19:44,904 --> 00:19:46,944
Speaker 2: carp and the interviews was like, look at all these

458
00:19:46,944 --> 00:19:49,944
Speaker 2: incredible women together and like how fabulous they look and

459
00:19:49,984 --> 00:19:52,704
Speaker 2: how great they are not talking about the show.

460
00:19:52,744 --> 00:19:56,224
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so I've got two theories on this. One.

461
00:19:56,304 --> 00:19:58,624
Speaker 1: Everybody knows now that this has been panned, like Rotten

462
00:19:58,624 --> 00:20:01,064
Speaker 1: Tomatoes that had zero percent on Rotten Tomatoes for ages,

463
00:20:01,224 --> 00:20:03,224
Speaker 1: it's now up to five percent, but it's got sixty

464
00:20:03,224 --> 00:20:05,904
Speaker 1: percent from audiences. I've got two theories on why they

465
00:20:05,904 --> 00:20:08,224
Speaker 1: didn't give you the screeners. One, they knew it was

466
00:20:08,304 --> 00:20:11,144
Speaker 1: terrible and they didn't want people saying that it was terrible. Two,

467
00:20:11,344 --> 00:20:13,304
Speaker 1: they knew it was terrible, but they wanted to have

468
00:20:13,424 --> 00:20:17,144
Speaker 1: this massive pr push when everybody read the reviews because,

469
00:20:17,464 --> 00:20:20,304
Speaker 1: like Kim Kardashian said in her Instagram post, all these

470
00:20:20,344 --> 00:20:23,024
Speaker 1: people saying that they hate it is actually sending more

471
00:20:23,024 --> 00:20:25,064
Speaker 1: people to watch it exactly.

472
00:20:25,144 --> 00:20:27,184
Speaker 2: So I don't know. I mean, yeah, it's interesting. I

473
00:20:27,184 --> 00:20:29,664
Speaker 2: don't know if they think it's bad in terms of

474
00:20:29,704 --> 00:20:31,584
Speaker 2: like they're like, oh, we'll just release a bad show,

475
00:20:31,624 --> 00:20:33,824
Speaker 2: because like a huge amount of money went into this.

476
00:20:34,224 --> 00:20:38,224
Speaker 2: Ryan Murphy obviously has an incredible TV legacy. A lot

477
00:20:38,264 --> 00:20:42,104
Speaker 2: of the actresses in this are critically acclaimed, with Namie Watts,

478
00:20:42,344 --> 00:20:46,224
Speaker 2: Glenn Close, Sarah Paulson, Nissi Nash, Tiana Taylor like and

479
00:20:46,264 --> 00:20:50,144
Speaker 2: then the guest stars Brookshields and Grace Gummer and all

480
00:20:50,184 --> 00:20:52,624
Speaker 2: these incredible actresses. So I don't think they were like,

481
00:20:52,664 --> 00:20:54,584
Speaker 2: we're putting out a bad show. I just think they

482
00:20:54,664 --> 00:20:58,304
Speaker 2: knew that it wasn't going to be critically acclaimed. It's

483
00:20:58,304 --> 00:20:59,944
Speaker 2: not the kind of show that critics would give a

484
00:20:59,984 --> 00:21:01,904
Speaker 2: fair review to. In saying that, though, I'm sure the

485
00:21:01,944 --> 00:21:04,184
Speaker 2: critics did think it was bad, because there's a lot

486
00:21:04,224 --> 00:21:06,544
Speaker 2: bad about it now that I've watched the first two episodes,

487
00:21:06,864 --> 00:21:09,024
Speaker 2: but they wanted it to be on the glamour of

488
00:21:09,064 --> 00:21:11,104
Speaker 2: the show rather than the con tent of the show.

489
00:21:11,664 --> 00:21:14,984
Speaker 2: So yes, when it came out, it was almost astounding

490
00:21:15,104 --> 00:21:17,744
Speaker 2: how some of the reviews played out of saying like

491
00:21:17,944 --> 00:21:21,704
Speaker 2: New York Times, The Guardian, all these huge publications saying

492
00:21:21,904 --> 00:21:24,584
Speaker 2: the worst show we've ever watched, zero stars, which a

493
00:21:24,584 --> 00:21:26,504
Speaker 2: lot of them like, we never do this, We've done

494
00:21:26,544 --> 00:21:30,904
Speaker 2: about five times before zero stars, this is unwatchable, And

495
00:21:30,944 --> 00:21:33,504
Speaker 2: then that started to make a huge amount of headlines.

496
00:21:33,584 --> 00:21:35,504
Speaker 2: And then this week it came out, now that the

497
00:21:35,504 --> 00:21:37,024
Speaker 2: show has been out for over a week and they

498
00:21:37,064 --> 00:21:40,624
Speaker 2: have all the data, that All's Fair had three point

499
00:21:40,744 --> 00:21:44,824
Speaker 2: two million views, making it Who's biggest scripted series debut

500
00:21:44,904 --> 00:21:45,784
Speaker 2: in three years.

501
00:21:46,104 --> 00:21:48,664
Speaker 1: Which is really interesting and it kind of speaks to

502
00:21:49,184 --> 00:21:51,144
Speaker 1: just because critics don't like it doesn't mean it's not

503
00:21:51,144 --> 00:21:53,584
Speaker 1: going to be a successful show. I think part of

504
00:21:53,624 --> 00:21:56,584
Speaker 1: this is a lot of the people who wrote articles

505
00:21:56,624 --> 00:21:58,904
Speaker 1: on this and you know, critiqued it. We're talking about

506
00:21:58,904 --> 00:22:02,144
Speaker 1: how Ryan Murphy does a lot of his camp productions.

507
00:22:02,544 --> 00:22:05,064
Speaker 1: Is that's kind of his brand, you know, he does

508
00:22:05,144 --> 00:22:09,624
Speaker 1: this stylized drama very very well. So the whole it's

509
00:22:09,624 --> 00:22:12,584
Speaker 1: so bad It's thing kind of comes into play with that.

510
00:22:12,944 --> 00:22:15,144
Speaker 1: And I do think there is that kind of campiness

511
00:22:15,464 --> 00:22:17,944
Speaker 1: and it really reminds me of like those big soap

512
00:22:17,944 --> 00:22:20,344
Speaker 1: operas like Days of Our Lives or Home and Away.

513
00:22:20,344 --> 00:22:22,064
Speaker 1: They've all been running for years and years and they

514
00:22:22,224 --> 00:22:24,824
Speaker 1: are really bad but still have been going on for

515
00:22:24,864 --> 00:22:27,384
Speaker 1: a long time. Even tho you know those TikTok movies,

516
00:22:27,864 --> 00:22:30,944
Speaker 1: those really really bad TikTok movies that like pop up

517
00:22:30,944 --> 00:22:33,504
Speaker 1: and it's like you've never seen acting so terrible, but

518
00:22:33,544 --> 00:22:36,264
Speaker 1: for some reason it's very addictive. Yeah, yeah, So I

519
00:22:36,264 --> 00:22:39,344
Speaker 1: feel like that's part of it. But when I watched it,

520
00:22:39,344 --> 00:22:40,504
Speaker 1: it's really bad.

521
00:22:40,824 --> 00:22:42,824
Speaker 2: Here's the thing. I don't think it's as clear cut

522
00:22:42,864 --> 00:22:46,504
Speaker 2: as the narrative that critics hate it and audiences love it,

523
00:22:46,664 --> 00:22:48,544
Speaker 2: and I think that is definitely what the cast is

524
00:22:48,544 --> 00:22:51,184
Speaker 2: trying to put out there. And if you just look

525
00:22:51,184 --> 00:22:53,384
Speaker 2: at Rotten Tomatoes, which again is a very flawed system,

526
00:22:53,424 --> 00:22:55,024
Speaker 2: so you can't just go off that with like the

527
00:22:55,064 --> 00:22:57,784
Speaker 2: critics score being so low on the audience being higher.

528
00:22:58,344 --> 00:23:01,464
Speaker 2: Just because people watch the first episode doesn't mean that

529
00:23:01,504 --> 00:23:03,664
Speaker 2: they loved the show. Yeah. I think what people are

530
00:23:03,704 --> 00:23:06,624
Speaker 2: drawn to is the spectacle and the drama around it,

531
00:23:06,704 --> 00:23:09,264
Speaker 2: And that's why the trailer also broke records when it

532
00:23:09,344 --> 00:23:12,344
Speaker 2: was released, And it's because you have all this blend

533
00:23:12,344 --> 00:23:15,304
Speaker 2: of big name actresses and drama and glamour and people

534
00:23:15,344 --> 00:23:17,424
Speaker 2: are just so desperate to see. There was so much

535
00:23:17,464 --> 00:23:21,424
Speaker 2: controversy about Kim Kardashian being the lead actress over all

536
00:23:21,464 --> 00:23:24,024
Speaker 2: these other established actresses and the fact that she was

537
00:23:24,344 --> 00:23:27,064
Speaker 2: playing a divorce lawyer based off the divorce lawyer who

538
00:23:27,144 --> 00:23:29,824
Speaker 2: represents her in real life and her divorces and all

539
00:23:29,824 --> 00:23:31,824
Speaker 2: these things like it was just it was a perfect

540
00:23:31,904 --> 00:23:36,264
Speaker 2: melting pot of headlines drama that people wanted to watch it.

541
00:23:36,304 --> 00:23:38,704
Speaker 2: So I think it's more about this people being drawn

542
00:23:38,744 --> 00:23:40,064
Speaker 2: to the spectacle.

543
00:23:39,624 --> 00:23:42,864
Speaker 1: And also seeing Kim in that leading role because she's

544
00:23:42,904 --> 00:23:45,424
Speaker 1: not an actress's let's be very very honest to you.

545
00:23:45,504 --> 00:23:47,184
Speaker 1: I think she did an okay job. I don't think

546
00:23:47,184 --> 00:23:49,384
Speaker 1: she's a great actress, but she's got to hold her

547
00:23:49,424 --> 00:23:52,944
Speaker 1: ground with these really incredible actresses. However, Mami wats who

548
00:23:53,024 --> 00:23:54,704
Speaker 1: is a good actress. I don't think she was great,

549
00:23:54,704 --> 00:23:56,624
Speaker 1: and like a lot of the people were not. And

550
00:23:56,624 --> 00:23:58,504
Speaker 1: I think it had to do with the dialogue of it,

551
00:23:58,544 --> 00:24:01,104
Speaker 1: which is quite difficult. You've got two cams. You've got

552
00:24:01,104 --> 00:24:04,064
Speaker 1: people who really really love Kim Kay and respect what

553
00:24:04,104 --> 00:24:05,424
Speaker 1: she does, and then you've got those people that just

554
00:24:05,504 --> 00:24:07,944
Speaker 1: like hate her and want to see her fail and

555
00:24:08,104 --> 00:24:10,024
Speaker 1: are watching it because they hate her. They hate watch.

556
00:24:10,344 --> 00:24:12,664
Speaker 1: We talked a lot about the hate watch. But it's

557
00:24:12,704 --> 00:24:15,424
Speaker 1: also interesting time because she just she failed the bar again.

558
00:24:15,664 --> 00:24:17,744
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I don't Kim can kind of put those

559
00:24:17,744 --> 00:24:21,464
Speaker 2: two things together a time, but it's just obviously it

560
00:24:21,504 --> 00:24:23,664
Speaker 2: is timing. It is obviously with her announcement saying that

561
00:24:23,704 --> 00:24:25,304
Speaker 2: she failed the bar exam, that she could say I'm

562
00:24:25,344 --> 00:24:26,864
Speaker 2: not a lawyer yet, but I do play a well

563
00:24:26,944 --> 00:24:29,344
Speaker 2: dressed one on TV. It is kind of interesting. I

564
00:24:29,344 --> 00:24:31,064
Speaker 2: don't think you can say yet whether or not the

565
00:24:31,104 --> 00:24:34,184
Speaker 2: show is successful, like her very successful debut, but there's

566
00:24:34,184 --> 00:24:36,424
Speaker 2: still many episodes to go, Like this show is going

567
00:24:36,464 --> 00:24:38,664
Speaker 2: to be dropping weekly now. It's going to run through

568
00:24:38,744 --> 00:24:41,584
Speaker 2: until December. So I think you can have a huge

569
00:24:41,624 --> 00:24:43,784
Speaker 2: amount of people turning for a premiere. We've seen this

570
00:24:43,824 --> 00:24:45,584
Speaker 2: with other shows. A huge amount of people turn to

571
00:24:45,584 --> 00:24:48,024
Speaker 2: a premiere just to see and then you have audience

572
00:24:48,104 --> 00:24:51,104
Speaker 2: drop offs, right, Yeah, it'll be interesting to see if

573
00:24:51,144 --> 00:24:53,704
Speaker 2: they have that. But I also kind of don't really

574
00:24:53,744 --> 00:24:55,944
Speaker 2: agree with the sentiment that I've heard of the whole like, oh,

575
00:24:55,984 --> 00:24:58,624
Speaker 2: but this is just what Kim Kardashian does. And I

576
00:24:58,624 --> 00:25:00,264
Speaker 2: guess that was kind of helped with the you know,

577
00:25:00,384 --> 00:25:02,704
Speaker 2: she put up the Facebook post where she was screenshotting

578
00:25:02,704 --> 00:25:05,504
Speaker 2: all the bad reviews, and the caption was a joke

579
00:25:05,544 --> 00:25:08,424
Speaker 2: about like watch like the best reviewed show on television,

580
00:25:08,704 --> 00:25:11,144
Speaker 2: and it had like all these different screenshots of all

581
00:25:11,144 --> 00:25:13,544
Speaker 2: the bad reviews and also reviews about how bad she

582
00:25:13,704 --> 00:25:14,384
Speaker 2: is in general.

583
00:25:14,624 --> 00:25:16,784
Speaker 1: That's the reason. It makes me think that it's all

584
00:25:16,944 --> 00:25:19,264
Speaker 1: part of the marketing of this movie, and this is

585
00:25:19,304 --> 00:25:20,584
Speaker 1: part of the plan all along.

586
00:25:20,824 --> 00:25:21,664
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, it.

587
00:25:21,624 --> 00:25:24,864
Speaker 1: Makes me think that because if she was genuinely like

588
00:25:25,264 --> 00:25:27,464
Speaker 1: I'm really really good, I really really tried, And then

589
00:25:27,464 --> 00:25:29,824
Speaker 1: people were saying she was bad that would like really

590
00:25:29,904 --> 00:25:32,264
Speaker 1: hurt her feelings. But the fact that she's or maybe

591
00:25:32,304 --> 00:25:34,304
Speaker 1: I guess she doesn't hurt her feelings because well it's water.

592
00:25:34,744 --> 00:25:37,344
Speaker 2: She always likes to be the one who's in on

593
00:25:37,384 --> 00:25:39,144
Speaker 2: the joke and yeahuff, and that's a big thing we

594
00:25:39,184 --> 00:25:41,544
Speaker 2: see about her. What I think is interesting, though, is

595
00:25:41,584 --> 00:25:43,264
Speaker 2: this idea of what people are saying about like, Oh,

596
00:25:43,304 --> 00:25:45,584
Speaker 2: they just wanted the spectacle, they just wanted people to

597
00:25:45,624 --> 00:25:47,664
Speaker 2: watch it. They didn't care about the product. And I

598
00:25:47,664 --> 00:25:50,584
Speaker 2: don't believe that's true because that doesn't kind of match

599
00:25:50,664 --> 00:25:53,344
Speaker 2: up with how Kim Kardashin has become famous and built

600
00:25:53,344 --> 00:25:55,824
Speaker 2: her business. It's like with Skims, Like Skims has a

601
00:25:55,824 --> 00:25:58,784
Speaker 2: lot of big kind of marketing ployers like the Merken

602
00:25:58,904 --> 00:26:00,984
Speaker 2: or the Peer snipplebra and all these kind of things

603
00:26:01,224 --> 00:26:03,744
Speaker 2: that are big marketing ployees, and that gets attention to

604
00:26:03,784 --> 00:26:06,024
Speaker 2: the brand. But once you're in the brand, like the

605
00:26:06,024 --> 00:26:09,064
Speaker 2: Skims product is very very good, yes, And I think

606
00:26:09,104 --> 00:26:10,944
Speaker 2: that's a lot with the Kim kardashi and stuff. Is

607
00:26:11,144 --> 00:26:13,104
Speaker 2: like with her makeup range and her skin range and

608
00:26:13,144 --> 00:26:16,184
Speaker 2: all these things. Is that it's very much like she'll

609
00:26:16,224 --> 00:26:19,304
Speaker 2: do these crazy things to promote it, but she has

610
00:26:19,344 --> 00:26:21,584
Speaker 2: this really good team around her that make the product

611
00:26:21,624 --> 00:26:23,664
Speaker 2: really good. So I don't believe she would go into

612
00:26:23,664 --> 00:26:25,744
Speaker 2: All's Fair or that Ryan Murphy would go into All's

613
00:26:25,784 --> 00:26:28,184
Speaker 2: Fair saying we're just going to create a big spectacle

614
00:26:28,224 --> 00:26:30,264
Speaker 2: and make the show bad. I think they tried to

615
00:26:30,264 --> 00:26:32,624
Speaker 2: make the show good looking, by the amount of money

616
00:26:32,664 --> 00:26:35,104
Speaker 2: they spent on it, by the cast they got. And

617
00:26:35,224 --> 00:26:37,024
Speaker 2: I actually think, like, after I've watched the first two

618
00:26:37,064 --> 00:26:41,424
Speaker 2: episodes now that there's a lot of good there and

619
00:26:41,464 --> 00:26:43,504
Speaker 2: this happens a lot with film and TV, is that

620
00:26:44,064 --> 00:26:45,984
Speaker 2: all the pieces of the Puzzler there, they just didn't

621
00:26:46,024 --> 00:26:48,424
Speaker 2: come together. Like the idea is good. I think the

622
00:26:48,464 --> 00:26:51,384
Speaker 2: idea is like very interesting. The character set up is

623
00:26:51,384 --> 00:26:55,504
Speaker 2: so interesting, with Sarah Paulson's Carrington Lane being like ostracized

624
00:26:55,544 --> 00:26:57,864
Speaker 2: from the girl group of Namie Watts and Kim Kardashian

625
00:26:57,944 --> 00:26:59,544
Speaker 2: and how they started the law firm and how they

626
00:26:59,704 --> 00:27:02,584
Speaker 2: left it, and the whole thing with the Kim Kardashian's

627
00:27:02,584 --> 00:27:05,624
Speaker 2: secretary and her husband. Yeah, and the different stories that

628
00:27:05,624 --> 00:27:08,224
Speaker 2: they bring in with the different women coming with their divorces,

629
00:27:08,304 --> 00:27:11,304
Speaker 2: and basing it off Laura Wosso, who's really fascinating as

630
00:27:11,344 --> 00:27:13,864
Speaker 2: this like big divorce attorney in Hollywood. Like, all the

631
00:27:13,864 --> 00:27:17,824
Speaker 2: pieces are there, the actors are there, the setup is there,

632
00:27:18,224 --> 00:27:20,344
Speaker 2: but when you put them all together, it just it

633
00:27:20,744 --> 00:27:22,504
Speaker 2: reads almost like a first draft.

634
00:27:22,904 --> 00:27:26,504
Speaker 1: Yeah, the characters are very flat. Yeah, the dialogue is I.

635
00:27:26,464 --> 00:27:29,784
Speaker 2: Think, like the characters are good, Like Sarah Paulson when

636
00:27:29,824 --> 00:27:33,984
Speaker 2: Carrington Lane is like begging Nami Watson Kim Kadashian's characters

637
00:27:33,984 --> 00:27:36,384
Speaker 2: to take her with them to their new law firm

638
00:27:36,424 --> 00:27:39,224
Speaker 2: and they say no, work away, like this heartbroken look

639
00:27:39,224 --> 00:27:41,504
Speaker 2: on her face. I'm like, Oh, Sarah Paulson's so good.

640
00:27:41,944 --> 00:27:44,144
Speaker 2: But then the next scene is her just screaming fuck

641
00:27:44,184 --> 00:27:46,304
Speaker 2: fuck fuck at them, and You're like, oh, it's just

642
00:27:46,344 --> 00:27:48,264
Speaker 2: not like it feels like it should have this really

643
00:27:48,344 --> 00:27:50,624
Speaker 2: biting dialogue. So then it doesn't.

644
00:27:50,744 --> 00:27:52,984
Speaker 1: This is the line I actually pulled up because the

645
00:27:53,064 --> 00:27:56,064
Speaker 1: dialogue A lot of the critics of like putting quotes

646
00:27:56,064 --> 00:27:57,304
Speaker 1: in other dance, so I had to look up some

647
00:27:57,344 --> 00:28:00,144
Speaker 1: of the best dialogue pieces in it. So this is

648
00:28:00,184 --> 00:28:02,504
Speaker 1: the one you're talking about in honor of your big miles.

649
00:28:02,504 --> 00:28:04,184
Speaker 1: So this is when they have the ten years. They're

650
00:28:04,224 --> 00:28:07,024
Speaker 1: celebrating ten years. In honor of your big milestone, I

651
00:28:07,104 --> 00:28:10,344
Speaker 1: present you with a fruit basket, organic and lightly brushed

652
00:28:10,424 --> 00:28:14,024
Speaker 1: with salmonella and fecal matter. Eat a mellanball. Then maybe

653
00:28:14,064 --> 00:28:17,824
Speaker 1: you can all give the Ozembic your main lining. Arrest

654
00:28:17,944 --> 00:28:20,464
Speaker 1: you fat treacherous launchez.

655
00:28:20,344 --> 00:28:22,824
Speaker 2: See which I actually kind of love that lie. This

656
00:28:22,944 --> 00:28:25,264
Speaker 2: is an example of I think it just needed one

657
00:28:25,304 --> 00:28:27,224
Speaker 2: a few more goes around in the editing room. In

658
00:28:27,264 --> 00:28:29,744
Speaker 2: the scripting room, is that like that bit starts off

659
00:28:29,784 --> 00:28:32,504
Speaker 2: so good, but then like it just then goes to

660
00:28:32,544 --> 00:28:34,464
Speaker 2: Sarah Paul's and just screaming at them, And I'm like,

661
00:28:34,504 --> 00:28:36,384
Speaker 2: we needed to be cut. It needed to cut, Yeah,

662
00:28:36,424 --> 00:28:38,424
Speaker 2: And so I kind of understand that, but it almost

663
00:28:38,424 --> 00:28:41,144
Speaker 2: feels like they tried to also make a show for TikTok.

664
00:28:41,824 --> 00:28:44,144
Speaker 2: Like they you know how like a lot of like

665
00:28:44,344 --> 00:28:47,464
Speaker 2: music executives now say that you have to make songs

666
00:28:47,464 --> 00:28:49,984
Speaker 2: for TikTok. It's the only way songs will really take off,

667
00:28:50,264 --> 00:28:52,704
Speaker 2: and so you have to have a built in part

668
00:28:52,744 --> 00:28:55,424
Speaker 2: of a song that will become a trending sound on TikTok.

669
00:28:55,744 --> 00:28:58,904
Speaker 2: And now we're seeing this evolution where TV shows like

670
00:28:59,024 --> 00:29:02,264
Speaker 2: Ryan Murphy's All's Fair are also being made for a

671
00:29:02,344 --> 00:29:05,344
Speaker 2: TikTok algorithm. Absolutely, but I think sitting down to watch

672
00:29:05,424 --> 00:29:08,104
Speaker 2: forty five minutes of what is essentially a bunch of

673
00:29:08,104 --> 00:29:11,344
Speaker 2: clips made for a TikTok algorithm is a lot harder

674
00:29:11,344 --> 00:29:14,424
Speaker 2: in practice than watching just these like thirty second clips

675
00:29:14,424 --> 00:29:15,864
Speaker 2: on your phone while you're doing something.

676
00:29:15,944 --> 00:29:18,384
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting. I actually love that lot. I

677
00:29:18,384 --> 00:29:20,384
Speaker 1: can definitely see people picking up on that and doing

678
00:29:20,464 --> 00:29:22,984
Speaker 1: like is really camp pre enactments. I can see the

679
00:29:22,984 --> 00:29:27,584
Speaker 1: Halloween costumes, I can see the like the funny satire

680
00:29:27,864 --> 00:29:30,784
Speaker 1: like satirical pieces, all of that. I can see that.

681
00:29:31,264 --> 00:29:33,984
Speaker 1: But in terms of longevity and retention, I think you're right.

682
00:29:34,064 --> 00:29:35,544
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if they're going to be able to

683
00:29:35,704 --> 00:29:39,144
Speaker 1: nail it. Yeah, but it's really interesting. It's almost like

684
00:29:39,664 --> 00:29:42,984
Speaker 1: it's this practice in how bad can you make something

685
00:29:43,024 --> 00:29:45,944
Speaker 1: and still maintain an audience?

686
00:29:46,264 --> 00:29:48,624
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. And speaking of the audience there, I don't

687
00:29:48,664 --> 00:29:52,224
Speaker 2: know if it fits into this it's so bad it's good. Well,

688
00:29:52,264 --> 00:29:54,184
Speaker 2: a lot of people trap for the TV, but I

689
00:29:54,224 --> 00:29:56,304
Speaker 2: think that they're more so watching it to be part

690
00:29:56,304 --> 00:29:57,104
Speaker 2: of the conversation.

691
00:29:57,264 --> 00:29:57,704
Speaker 1: Absolutely.

692
00:29:57,704 --> 00:29:58,904
Speaker 2: I don't think a lot of them are sitting down

693
00:29:58,984 --> 00:30:00,664
Speaker 2: to watch it in the way that people would watch.

694
00:30:00,704 --> 00:30:01,984
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't watch you like this, but like

695
00:30:01,984 --> 00:30:03,544
Speaker 2: a lot of people say they hate, they like watch

696
00:30:03,544 --> 00:30:05,544
Speaker 2: Emily in Paris because I think it's so bad. It's good,

697
00:30:06,064 --> 00:30:08,904
Speaker 2: but that is a very light, kind of fluffy show,

698
00:30:09,024 --> 00:30:12,104
Speaker 2: whereas that has all this like kind of fantasy whimsicalness

699
00:30:12,104 --> 00:30:14,464
Speaker 2: about it, Whereas I don't know if All's Fair has

700
00:30:14,504 --> 00:30:17,304
Speaker 2: tapped into that enough to keep this audience past the

701
00:30:17,344 --> 00:30:18,544
Speaker 2: first time episode.

702
00:30:18,624 --> 00:30:21,104
Speaker 1: It's quite cringe. I don't know. I found it really cringey.

703
00:30:21,504 --> 00:30:23,664
Speaker 2: I also just I think a major misstep of this

704
00:30:23,704 --> 00:30:26,784
Speaker 2: whole thing. And as previously said, I do like this woman.

705
00:30:26,904 --> 00:30:29,064
Speaker 2: This isn't coming from a negative place because I did

706
00:30:29,104 --> 00:30:31,664
Speaker 2: read all the comments around like do we hate this

707
00:30:31,704 --> 00:30:33,824
Speaker 2: show or do we just hate Kim Kardashian. Yeah, I've

708
00:30:33,824 --> 00:30:36,624
Speaker 2: seen I don't, but I just don't think that she

709
00:30:36,664 --> 00:30:38,344
Speaker 2: should have been the leader of this show. I think

710
00:30:38,344 --> 00:30:40,224
Speaker 2: she should have been in it, but it is so

711
00:30:40,544 --> 00:30:44,704
Speaker 2: jarring watching her, and I think it's a good example

712
00:30:44,784 --> 00:30:47,864
Speaker 2: of how sometimes you can't hard work your way out

713
00:30:47,904 --> 00:30:50,864
Speaker 2: of a situation. I do believe, not only just from

714
00:30:50,864 --> 00:30:52,544
Speaker 2: what she said on this podcast when she came on it.

715
00:30:52,584 --> 00:30:54,704
Speaker 2: But I just do know about everything about how the

716
00:30:54,704 --> 00:30:56,424
Speaker 2: way she works and she lives, that she would have

717
00:30:56,424 --> 00:30:57,864
Speaker 2: put like one hundred percent into.

718
00:30:57,704 --> 00:30:59,784
Speaker 1: That, and I don't doubt that she tried really hard

719
00:30:59,824 --> 00:31:02,744
Speaker 1: that it to do doesn't come across acting. Acting is

720
00:31:02,744 --> 00:31:04,784
Speaker 1: one of those things you obviously have to try and

721
00:31:04,784 --> 00:31:05,824
Speaker 1: to be an actor, you have to try and to

722
00:31:05,824 --> 00:31:07,624
Speaker 1: be a performer. There is a lot of skill involved

723
00:31:07,664 --> 00:31:09,544
Speaker 1: in it, but there is a lot also of just

724
00:31:10,464 --> 00:31:13,464
Speaker 1: killed talent and raw talent and you know, being able

725
00:31:13,544 --> 00:31:17,064
Speaker 1: to have that tap into those emotions and portray something

726
00:31:17,064 --> 00:31:19,864
Speaker 1: that's really authentic on screen. That's why, even if you

727
00:31:19,864 --> 00:31:22,624
Speaker 1: don't know nothing about acting, you can tell when someone

728
00:31:22,784 --> 00:31:24,144
Speaker 1: is a bad actor.

729
00:31:24,064 --> 00:31:26,544
Speaker 2: And it's just so much harder when she's someone acting,

730
00:31:26,744 --> 00:31:29,104
Speaker 2: and it's it's like with American Horror Story when she

731
00:31:29,184 --> 00:31:30,784
Speaker 2: was in that, like when she was just in her

732
00:31:30,824 --> 00:31:33,904
Speaker 2: first few opening scenes by herself, it's a bit like, oh,

733
00:31:33,984 --> 00:31:36,264
Speaker 2: she's good at this. One thing obviously, is that she

734
00:31:36,304 --> 00:31:39,464
Speaker 2: looks great on camera, and she's only playing these kind

735
00:31:39,504 --> 00:31:43,744
Speaker 2: of versions of herself of this highly glamorized like ice

736
00:31:43,784 --> 00:31:47,424
Speaker 2: princess sort of thing. And so in those moments she's fine,

737
00:31:47,464 --> 00:31:49,744
Speaker 2: but once she put her opposite another actress who's a

738
00:31:49,744 --> 00:31:51,984
Speaker 2: lot more talented than she is and a better actress

739
00:31:52,024 --> 00:31:53,904
Speaker 2: like we saw in American horror stories. So she when

740
00:31:53,904 --> 00:31:55,344
Speaker 2: they brought the bit of the full cast in to

741
00:31:55,464 --> 00:31:58,584
Speaker 2: work with her, she really sticks out. And I think

742
00:31:58,744 --> 00:32:00,864
Speaker 2: that's what we're kind of also seeing now because now,

743
00:32:01,064 --> 00:32:03,304
Speaker 2: even like across from Naomi Watts, I know people are saying,

744
00:32:03,304 --> 00:32:05,104
Speaker 2: it's not Nami what's his best role, and it's not

745
00:32:05,104 --> 00:32:07,984
Speaker 2: because of the writing. But she can do a lot

746
00:32:08,024 --> 00:32:12,984
Speaker 2: with very little, so can Sarah Paulson, so can Nisi Nash.

747
00:32:13,104 --> 00:32:16,424
Speaker 1: Was the best part of She's in terms of what

748
00:32:16,504 --> 00:32:20,144
Speaker 1: they were given and their characters, Nissi Nash was the best,

749
00:32:20,344 --> 00:32:22,904
Speaker 1: even though she kind of got given that sassy black

750
00:32:22,944 --> 00:32:26,864
Speaker 1: woman right, which I think is a little stereotypical and done.

751
00:32:27,024 --> 00:32:30,264
Speaker 1: But even with that so little, she did the most

752
00:32:30,304 --> 00:32:33,224
Speaker 1: out of everything that would be my interpretation.

753
00:32:32,824 --> 00:32:35,064
Speaker 2: And it's also so interesting. So yeah, nothing bad there

754
00:32:35,064 --> 00:32:36,704
Speaker 2: about Kim, but I just think it makes the show

755
00:32:36,704 --> 00:32:38,624
Speaker 2: a bit more unwatchable, and they should have had her

756
00:32:38,624 --> 00:32:40,944
Speaker 2: as a supporting character. So every time she popped up,

757
00:32:40,984 --> 00:32:42,264
Speaker 2: it was like a bit of a fun thing, like

758
00:32:42,264 --> 00:32:44,624
Speaker 2: oh yeah, Kashian again, and she just comes in and

759
00:32:44,664 --> 00:32:46,784
Speaker 2: does a few lines and leaves, and I know she

760
00:32:46,824 --> 00:32:49,104
Speaker 2: wants to be the lead, and Ryan Murphy really really

761
00:32:49,184 --> 00:32:50,544
Speaker 2: wanted her to be the lead. And at the end

762
00:32:50,544 --> 00:32:52,264
Speaker 2: of the day, it's his show and his universe and

763
00:32:52,264 --> 00:32:54,384
Speaker 2: he gets to pick who was there. But I feel

764
00:32:54,384 --> 00:32:57,424
Speaker 2: like that kind of damaged the show. And also I

765
00:32:57,464 --> 00:33:00,104
Speaker 2: think the fact that they've almost doing a duel like

766
00:33:00,664 --> 00:33:03,784
Speaker 2: crossover every week as a crossover with the New Kardashians,

767
00:33:04,144 --> 00:33:06,464
Speaker 2: and if you're watching that because All's Fair came out

768
00:33:06,864 --> 00:33:08,944
Speaker 2: the new season, that a Karabashians came out, and a

769
00:33:08,944 --> 00:33:12,184
Speaker 2: big storyline for the Kardashan's this year is about Kim

770
00:33:12,224 --> 00:33:14,064
Speaker 2: being on this show and the behind the scenes of it.

771
00:33:14,304 --> 00:33:17,024
Speaker 2: So now on The Kardashians, we have Glenn Close in

772
00:33:17,104 --> 00:33:21,584
Speaker 2: her pajamas rnking cocktails, we have Sarah Paulson dancing through

773
00:33:21,664 --> 00:33:24,064
Speaker 2: Chris Jenna's house, and we have Sarah Paulson pretending to

774
00:33:24,064 --> 00:33:26,744
Speaker 2: be a Kardashian to the camera, and Naomi Watts is

775
00:33:26,744 --> 00:33:28,704
Speaker 2: also there. Like all of a sudden, The Kardashians has

776
00:33:28,744 --> 00:33:32,504
Speaker 2: this wild cast of supporting actresses that are Hollywood's Like

777
00:33:32,624 --> 00:33:34,304
Speaker 2: most you know critically acclaimed women.

778
00:33:34,384 --> 00:33:36,504
Speaker 1: This is why I think partly I think Ryan Murphy's

779
00:33:36,504 --> 00:33:40,304
Speaker 1: trolling us. I think Ryan Murphy, Kim Kardashian, and Chris Jenna, Yeah, and.

780
00:33:40,264 --> 00:33:43,024
Speaker 2: Christian executive producer trolling out.

781
00:33:43,024 --> 00:33:46,144
Speaker 1: Because they're trolling us because they're all EPs of this. Obviously,

782
00:33:46,224 --> 00:33:49,304
Speaker 1: Ryan Murphy created it. Kim Kardashian knows what the hell

783
00:33:49,384 --> 00:33:51,504
Speaker 1: she's doing. She knows how to build a brand. Maybe

784
00:33:51,504 --> 00:33:54,784
Speaker 1: they're doing this on purpose. They have created We're like

785
00:33:54,824 --> 00:33:58,024
Speaker 1: little puppets under the sting and they're just going, look,

786
00:33:58,064 --> 00:33:59,984
Speaker 1: we're gonna make you watch everything and then we watch,

787
00:34:00,104 --> 00:34:01,864
Speaker 1: we watch keeping up so we can see what's going

788
00:34:01,904 --> 00:34:03,544
Speaker 1: on behind the scenes. Do they think that and then

789
00:34:03,544 --> 00:34:05,744
Speaker 1: we get to see all of these actors. Yeah, this

790
00:34:05,904 --> 00:34:08,304
Speaker 1: is like something that Ryan Murphy's doing to see how

791
00:34:08,304 --> 00:34:08,944
Speaker 1: far we can push it.

792
00:34:09,304 --> 00:34:11,064
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what I'm geting. Do you think, Yeah, I

793
00:34:11,064 --> 00:34:13,224
Speaker 2: think it's not so much trolling, just that they know

794
00:34:13,344 --> 00:34:16,304
Speaker 2: the power of the marketing and getting your in built

795
00:34:16,344 --> 00:34:18,504
Speaker 2: audience over to another product and all these things that

796
00:34:18,544 --> 00:34:20,944
Speaker 2: people talk about behind the scenes of content creation. And

797
00:34:20,944 --> 00:34:22,624
Speaker 2: I think it goes to show that it is so

798
00:34:22,744 --> 00:34:25,424
Speaker 2: hard to launch new TV shows A moment, and there's

799
00:34:25,464 --> 00:34:27,184
Speaker 2: so much out there and to get people to watch

800
00:34:27,224 --> 00:34:30,744
Speaker 2: it that you need spectacle television. I feel like spectacle

801
00:34:30,784 --> 00:34:33,584
Speaker 2: television has almost taken over hate watching. There's too much

802
00:34:33,624 --> 00:34:36,024
Speaker 2: to hate watch now, so it needs this huge spectacle

803
00:34:36,064 --> 00:34:38,184
Speaker 2: to get people to watch, and that's what All's Fair

804
00:34:38,224 --> 00:34:38,664
Speaker 2: has done.

805
00:34:38,704 --> 00:34:41,984
Speaker 1: I think what's disappointing to me is that while this

806
00:34:42,104 --> 00:34:45,344
Speaker 1: show has this audience and it's got a massive amount

807
00:34:45,384 --> 00:34:47,864
Speaker 1: of views, then shows like I Love La, which you

808
00:34:48,024 --> 00:34:49,944
Speaker 1: recommended it on Weekend Watch and I went and watched

809
00:34:49,944 --> 00:34:52,424
Speaker 1: it after you recommended it. It's such a good show,

810
00:34:52,984 --> 00:34:55,024
Speaker 1: and those sorts of shows get pushed to the back,

811
00:34:55,304 --> 00:34:57,664
Speaker 1: and then we don't get that really good qualit exactly.

812
00:34:57,704 --> 00:34:59,584
Speaker 2: There are so many shows that come out every year

813
00:34:59,584 --> 00:35:01,624
Speaker 2: that are a little bit quieter, that don't have a gimmick,

814
00:35:01,864 --> 00:35:03,944
Speaker 2: that only do one season, or they maybe get picked

815
00:35:03,984 --> 00:35:05,464
Speaker 2: up as a second just as kind of like a

816
00:35:05,504 --> 00:35:07,784
Speaker 2: favor to someone. And that's a lot of people are

817
00:35:07,784 --> 00:35:09,984
Speaker 2: saying too, like it's so hard to get TV made

818
00:35:10,064 --> 00:35:11,744
Speaker 2: right now, and there's a lot of room for new

819
00:35:11,824 --> 00:35:15,584
Speaker 2: voices to come through because you know, all the money

820
00:35:15,584 --> 00:35:17,944
Speaker 2: and time and everything has been spent on like spectacle

821
00:35:17,984 --> 00:35:20,584
Speaker 2: shows like this. There's also the other argument that this

822
00:35:20,664 --> 00:35:22,504
Speaker 2: is why, like a lot of studios make these big

823
00:35:22,544 --> 00:35:26,504
Speaker 2: popcorn blockbusters is that they make a popcorn blockbuster movie

824
00:35:26,544 --> 00:35:29,304
Speaker 2: with a superhero in it, they make billions of dollars

825
00:35:29,304 --> 00:35:30,704
Speaker 2: and then they can go and make all their other

826
00:35:30,744 --> 00:35:34,064
Speaker 2: little side projects that go on to win, like Oscars

827
00:35:34,104 --> 00:35:34,264
Speaker 2: and the.

828
00:35:34,424 --> 00:35:38,704
Speaker 1: Serry Margo Robbie of them exactly, Barry Margo Robbie doing allbuster.

829
00:35:39,024 --> 00:35:41,624
Speaker 2: Yeah, do the Chanel ad to pay for your tiny

830
00:35:41,664 --> 00:35:44,344
Speaker 2: movie to be made? Yes? So well, we're only three

831
00:35:44,344 --> 00:35:47,064
Speaker 2: episodes out now of All's fair. We've got till December,

832
00:35:47,304 --> 00:35:49,344
Speaker 2: and I guess we'll see if the audience sticks.

833
00:35:49,104 --> 00:35:51,544
Speaker 1: Around with the Spillers think of it. You guys have

834
00:35:51,664 --> 00:35:53,704
Speaker 1: to let us, you guys think. Thank you so much

835
00:35:53,744 --> 00:35:56,024
Speaker 1: for listening to the Spill today. Guys, don't forget to

836
00:35:56,064 --> 00:35:59,064
Speaker 1: follow us on TikTok and Instagram. You can find us

837
00:35:59,104 --> 00:36:01,704
Speaker 1: in the show notes. We've popped that all there. Remember

838
00:36:01,744 --> 00:36:04,624
Speaker 1: we are serving all the biggest entertainments headlines and a

839
00:36:04,624 --> 00:36:06,864
Speaker 1: bite sized show. Every morning morning tea drops in this

840
00:36:06,904 --> 00:36:09,784
Speaker 1: feed at eight am tomorrow. The Spill is produced by Manishe.

841
00:36:09,784 --> 00:36:12,864
Speaker 1: It's warring with our production by Scott Strock. Bye Bye.

842
00:36:16,064 --> 00:36:21,784
Speaker 2: Lell Lellon, Lellon MHM