WEBVTT - BONUS: What's It Really Like Growing Up Adopted In Australia? 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:02.760 Hello, lovely neighborhood. I'm back in your ears today for 0:00:02.800 --> 0:00:05.280 the second time this week. We are double dropping because 0:00:05.320 --> 0:00:08.360 I have a special treat from Mama MEA's daily news podcast, 0:00:08.400 --> 0:00:09.119 The Quickie. 0:00:09.520 --> 0:00:11.320 I was thrilled to join the. 0:00:11.280 --> 0:00:14.640 Show with an episode all about my adoption story and 0:00:14.680 --> 0:00:16.960 the journey over the past year or so to meeting 0:00:17.000 --> 0:00:22.040 my first blood relative, my beautiful son Teddy. November was 0:00:22.160 --> 0:00:25.279 Adoption Awareness Month, so if you've ever thought about adoption 0:00:25.400 --> 0:00:28.319 as a way to expand or start your family, I 0:00:28.360 --> 0:00:30.520 know it can be a really overwhelming area if it 0:00:30.520 --> 0:00:33.559 hasn't been in your network before. This episode has some 0:00:33.640 --> 0:00:36.360 information that hopefully might help or give you some insights 0:00:36.400 --> 0:00:38.720 you haven't heard before. I was asked a few questions 0:00:38.760 --> 0:00:41.640 I've never answered before, which was a really interesting occasion 0:00:41.720 --> 0:00:44.440 and opportunity to reflect, and also found that some of 0:00:44.479 --> 0:00:46.880 my answers to the questions I have discussed before had 0:00:47.000 --> 0:00:50.440 changed since I've had Teddy, so I really enjoyed this chat. 0:00:50.920 --> 0:00:53.000 Please take a listen to the episode, let us know 0:00:53.080 --> 0:00:55.080 what you think, and I will be back with another 0:00:55.120 --> 0:01:01.280 episode of CZA very soon. Hi. 0:01:01.440 --> 0:01:04.399 I'm Claire Murphy. This is Mumma MEA's twice daily news 0:01:04.440 --> 0:01:08.560 podcast The Quickie. It's Adoption Awareness Month and if you've 0:01:08.560 --> 0:01:11.080 ever thought about it, even just for a second, as 0:01:11.120 --> 0:01:13.480 a way to expand or start your family, we have 0:01:13.520 --> 0:01:16.360 some info that might help. We'll speak to Sarah Davidson, 0:01:16.440 --> 0:01:19.840 host of the CSDA podcast, who was herself adopted, to 0:01:19.959 --> 0:01:22.800 also help us understand what her experience has been like 0:01:22.880 --> 0:01:26.520 growing up adopted in Australia. Sarah Davidson shares her story 0:01:26.640 --> 0:01:41.520 as we mark National Adoption Awareness Month. I recently read 0:01:41.560 --> 0:01:44.399 through a thread asking for those who were adopted how 0:01:44.440 --> 0:01:47.760 old they were when they found out. The responses showed 0:01:48.080 --> 0:01:50.800 just how varied the adoption experience can be for those 0:01:50.840 --> 0:01:53.080 who were given up by or taken away from their 0:01:53.080 --> 0:01:57.200 biological families. Some felt like they were treated like not 0:01:57.440 --> 0:02:00.960 really a part of the family. Some experience trauma even 0:02:01.000 --> 0:02:04.000 those who were adopted as tiny babies. There were struggles 0:02:04.040 --> 0:02:07.960 to locate biological families, especially for those adopted from overseas, 0:02:08.280 --> 0:02:11.840 and both sad and joyous stories of biological family reunions. 0:02:12.320 --> 0:02:15.360 There were celebrations for families who finally felt complete with 0:02:15.400 --> 0:02:18.520 their adopted children, to those who mapped the dos and 0:02:18.560 --> 0:02:21.680 don'ts of adoptee life like changing a child's first or 0:02:21.680 --> 0:02:26.239 surname without their permission. Adoption is not the same for everyone, 0:02:26.440 --> 0:02:28.880 but the truth here in Australia is that we face 0:02:29.000 --> 0:02:32.960 significant challenges in providing permanent homes for thousands of children 0:02:32.960 --> 0:02:38.079 in need. The most recent data from the Australian Institute 0:02:38.080 --> 0:02:40.760 of Health and Welfare reveals that only two hundred and 0:02:40.760 --> 0:02:44.160 one adoptions were finalized in Australia during twenty twenty two 0:02:44.160 --> 0:02:48.440 to twenty three. This represents a ninety eight percent decline 0:02:48.480 --> 0:02:51.920 from the nearly ten thousand adoptions recorded in nineteen seventy one. 0:02:52.040 --> 0:02:56.000 Seventy two of those recent adoptions, one hundred and seventy 0:02:56.040 --> 0:03:00.680 three were domestic, well twenty eight were international. Reality is 0:03:00.720 --> 0:03:04.320 that over fifty five thousand children currently reside in out 0:03:04.320 --> 0:03:08.320 of home care across Australia. More concerningly, around four thousand 0:03:08.320 --> 0:03:11.000 of these children are not living in home based care, 0:03:11.480 --> 0:03:15.800 instead staying in group homes, motels or hotels. This situation 0:03:15.919 --> 0:03:21.360 highlights the critical need for permanent, stable family environments. Modern 0:03:21.400 --> 0:03:25.000 adoption in Australia follows a plenary open model, where children 0:03:25.040 --> 0:03:28.919 maintain knowledge of their heritage while forming new legal relationships 0:03:28.919 --> 0:03:33.519 with adoptive families. The system encompasses three main categories. Local 0:03:33.560 --> 0:03:38.480 adoptions within Australia into country adoptions through international partnerships can 0:03:38.600 --> 0:03:43.320 known child adoptions, including step parent and relative arrangements. All 0:03:43.360 --> 0:03:47.000 adoptions in Australia must now be open, ensuring children grow 0:03:47.080 --> 0:03:50.360 up knowing their adoption story. Now this approach recognizes the 0:03:50.400 --> 0:03:54.720 importance of identity and cultural connections, particularly for First Nations 0:03:54.800 --> 0:03:59.040 children who are overrepresented in the out of home care system. 0:03:59.360 --> 0:04:02.200 The disparity between adoption rates and the number of children 0:04:02.240 --> 0:04:05.400 requiring permanent homes is concerning, but those in the field 0:04:05.440 --> 0:04:08.000 know there are some serious barriers to adopting a child 0:04:08.080 --> 0:04:13.320 in this country. The stringent eligibility process, while necessary, may 0:04:13.360 --> 0:04:16.479 overlook a candidate due to a criminal history or health issue. 0:04:16.800 --> 0:04:20.800 There's the financial considerations and associated costs with adoption, which 0:04:20.880 --> 0:04:23.160 with the cost of living crisis, has made it worse 0:04:23.200 --> 0:04:27.040 for many. The adoption process also is not a quick 0:04:27.080 --> 0:04:29.800 one and it requires a certain level of legal assistance, 0:04:30.040 --> 0:04:32.320 and of course, the needs of the child should be 0:04:32.400 --> 0:04:35.560 held above all else for example, those with a disability 0:04:35.600 --> 0:04:38.400 who might need more support, or First Nations children who 0:04:38.520 --> 0:04:41.880 require connection to culture and need an appropriate family who 0:04:41.960 --> 0:04:46.400 can guide them. Research shows that early stability is crucial 0:04:46.440 --> 0:04:50.039 for children's development and their ability to thrive. Without permanent 0:04:50.040 --> 0:04:54.760 family arrangements, many children face uncertain futures and potential negative outcomes. 0:04:55.240 --> 0:04:58.360 The current system leaves thousands of young Australians without that 0:04:58.400 --> 0:05:01.600 security and that nurturing and environment that they really need 0:05:01.600 --> 0:05:06.279 for healthy development. That stable environment is something Sarah Davidson 0:05:06.320 --> 0:05:09.679 appreciates more than she can ever express. The author, TV 0:05:09.760 --> 0:05:12.039 and radio presenter and host of The Seas the Yay 0:05:12.080 --> 0:05:16.120 Podcast was adopted from Korea into an Australian family. She says, 0:05:16.200 --> 0:05:18.479 whether she and her younger brother were adopted or not 0:05:18.880 --> 0:05:19.919 was never even a question. 0:05:20.440 --> 0:05:23.480 My brother and I were born in South Korea and 0:05:23.839 --> 0:05:27.719 our parents are not South Korean by heritage, so it 0:05:27.800 --> 0:05:30.280 sort of wasn't possible in our family scenario to get 0:05:30.360 --> 0:05:32.720 very far into our lives without us wondering why we 0:05:32.720 --> 0:05:36.200 were completely Asian looking and they were completely Caucasian. So 0:05:36.279 --> 0:05:39.480 it wasn't ever going to last very long for there 0:05:39.520 --> 0:05:42.960 to be any illusion that we weren't adopted, or that 0:05:43.000 --> 0:05:45.240 there wasn't some kind of question to be asked. And 0:05:45.279 --> 0:05:49.640 because of that, I think it worked out beautifully because 0:05:50.040 --> 0:05:52.880 I don't ever remember not knowing, And I think that 0:05:52.960 --> 0:05:56.359 might be maybe the difference between some people feeling like 0:05:56.400 --> 0:05:58.400 they've had one narrative and then it's changed later on 0:05:58.440 --> 0:05:59.680 in their life, or you know, that. 0:05:59.760 --> 0:06:00.840 Just was no choice for us. 0:06:00.880 --> 0:06:03.599 So I was told before I even understood what the 0:06:03.600 --> 0:06:06.360 word adoption was. There's no before and after the news. 0:06:06.440 --> 0:06:08.599 I don't actually remember what the conversation was because I 0:06:08.680 --> 0:06:09.240 was so young. 0:06:09.839 --> 0:06:12.400 I think for those of us who haven't been exposed 0:06:12.400 --> 0:06:16.200 to adoption, there's a real movie narrative around it. For us, 0:06:16.279 --> 0:06:19.680 So we presume that as soon as you're kind of 0:06:19.680 --> 0:06:22.960 aware that you're adopted, that the initial thing would be 0:06:23.000 --> 0:06:25.479 to find out who your biological family is, and there's 0:06:25.520 --> 0:06:28.360 that real draw to find out where you come from. 0:06:28.400 --> 0:06:29.600 Did you experience that? 0:06:30.120 --> 0:06:34.000 Of course, there's a curiosity from a medical background perspective, 0:06:34.120 --> 0:06:35.080 or what you look like. 0:06:35.360 --> 0:06:36.960 There's always a curiosity there. 0:06:37.040 --> 0:06:40.720 But because our family here, like I never have you know, 0:06:40.760 --> 0:06:43.480 been like my adopted parents versus my biological parents. I've 0:06:43.520 --> 0:06:45.680 had one set of parents who raised me, who are 0:06:46.040 --> 0:06:49.160 their only family I ever knew, who are the most loving, 0:06:49.360 --> 0:06:52.000 incredible family, Like there was no sense of a gap 0:06:52.000 --> 0:06:54.520 that might drive that search for something else. I think 0:06:54.560 --> 0:06:57.080 maybe if you don't get along with your adoptive family 0:06:57.240 --> 0:06:59.919 or you feel like something's missing, that might drive the search. 0:07:00.120 --> 0:07:02.640 So I've never had that desire. 0:07:03.160 --> 0:07:05.240 But then there's also the fact that there's a big 0:07:05.400 --> 0:07:09.280 bureaucratic and logistical barrier as well. So Korea in the 0:07:09.320 --> 0:07:13.560 eighties had like no digitization of record. Often there is 0:07:13.600 --> 0:07:16.360 no information even if you did go on a really 0:07:16.400 --> 0:07:19.320 big search. There's a language barrier. But then there's also 0:07:19.320 --> 0:07:21.400 the fact that there's a big possibility that you'll find 0:07:21.400 --> 0:07:24.120 out something that you probably didn't necessarily want to know, 0:07:24.320 --> 0:07:27.200 like and you can't know that until you find out. 0:07:27.840 --> 0:07:29.760 And I just thought, what is it going to add 0:07:29.800 --> 0:07:31.760 to my life if it's positive, and what if it's 0:07:31.840 --> 0:07:33.680 going to add to my life if it's negative. 0:07:34.360 --> 0:07:36.440 And I don't know, it's just to me. 0:07:36.520 --> 0:07:39.040 I sort of thought, if it is something that's quite traumatic, 0:07:39.120 --> 0:07:41.880 I personally don't feel any trauma, and that would unner 0:07:42.040 --> 0:07:44.280 things that maybe I don't need to know. I have 0:07:44.560 --> 0:07:47.080 loved the family life that I've had. The way I 0:07:47.080 --> 0:07:49.440 put it to people to kind of explain, is if 0:07:49.480 --> 0:07:51.560 you found out now that you were adopted. It wouldn't 0:07:51.640 --> 0:07:53.200 change that you call your mum and dad your mum 0:07:53.200 --> 0:07:55.360 and dad. It might change that you feel you might 0:07:55.400 --> 0:07:57.160 have sense of betrayal, and you know, all that kind 0:07:57.200 --> 0:07:59.360 of stuff, But if someone pointed out your biological parents 0:07:59.400 --> 0:08:01.960 in an audience, you wouldn't immediately go. Yes, I know 0:08:02.040 --> 0:08:04.920 that if you told me they were outside, I'd be so. 0:08:04.960 --> 0:08:06.000 Curious to go and meet them. 0:08:06.000 --> 0:08:07.440 But if you told me it would take me twenty 0:08:07.480 --> 0:08:09.480 years of really hard work to go and find them, 0:08:09.520 --> 0:08:11.800 I probably wouldn't bother with it, if that makes sense. 0:08:12.480 --> 0:08:16.720 Do you think this stigma around adoption has changed over 0:08:16.760 --> 0:08:19.760 the years because there was this idea that and I 0:08:19.760 --> 0:08:22.480 guess maybe stigma's not even the right word. It's almost 0:08:22.520 --> 0:08:25.240 like you said that, sometimes adoption is seen of having 0:08:25.280 --> 0:08:27.600 some kind of I don't know, shame attached to it, 0:08:27.680 --> 0:08:31.000 like whether your parents experience that with not having in 0:08:31.120 --> 0:08:33.760 quotes their own children and having to go through that 0:08:33.840 --> 0:08:36.120 process of bringing you and your brother into their family. 0:08:36.200 --> 0:08:39.320 And then there's this idea that because you're a different 0:08:39.400 --> 0:08:42.800 sort of family, there's something wrong with that, you know, 0:08:42.920 --> 0:08:45.120 And now do you feel like that has changed over time? 0:08:45.120 --> 0:08:47.320 That we're so much more accepting of different kinds of 0:08:47.360 --> 0:08:49.440 families now in whatever way they come together. 0:08:49.960 --> 0:08:51.080 Yeah, one hundred percent. 0:08:51.160 --> 0:08:54.120 I think when we were in primary school, so my 0:08:54.160 --> 0:08:57.040 brother's four years younger than me, I definitely think it 0:08:57.160 --> 0:09:00.600 was much more the nuclear family. It was a much 0:09:00.640 --> 0:09:04.840 more conventional family unit time in society, if that makes sense. 0:09:04.960 --> 0:09:07.680 And the things that we were bullied about. Parts of 0:09:07.679 --> 0:09:09.600 it were sort of the racism of the nineties because 0:09:09.600 --> 0:09:12.080 we were very Asian looking, but there were a lot 0:09:12.120 --> 0:09:14.240 of questions of sort of like that's not your real 0:09:14.320 --> 0:09:16.880 mum or that's not your real dad, and yeah, the 0:09:16.920 --> 0:09:19.600 implication that they're not your real family and you don't 0:09:19.640 --> 0:09:22.760 know your parents. And it's funny now looking back on that, 0:09:22.880 --> 0:09:25.880 we're so much more accepting of a myriad of different 0:09:25.920 --> 0:09:28.840 ways that people become a family. There is so much 0:09:28.960 --> 0:09:31.440 less I don't know if it's stigma, but it's just 0:09:31.559 --> 0:09:34.880 more common that families are combined in very unique and 0:09:34.920 --> 0:09:37.880 different ways. In fact, being adopted is kind of vanilla 0:09:37.960 --> 0:09:42.280 on the spectrum now it's not really considered that quirky's 0:09:42.360 --> 0:09:46.760 so true. Yeah, like it's not even a story like okay, cool, 0:09:46.840 --> 0:09:50.000 like what else? But yeah, I think we did have 0:09:50.040 --> 0:09:52.160 a much harder time when we were younger, and it does. 0:09:52.200 --> 0:09:54.440 It does kind of eat away at you that people 0:09:54.440 --> 0:09:57.760 are asking questions about the legitimacy of your family bond. 0:09:58.000 --> 0:10:01.959 And it's only because our parents, we were so communicative 0:10:02.040 --> 0:10:05.680 and open and helped us be really well adjusted around 0:10:05.720 --> 0:10:07.760 that part of our identity. They always sort of said, 0:10:07.800 --> 0:10:09.920 if you want to go on a pursuit, we will 0:10:09.920 --> 0:10:12.720 support that, if you want your Korean culture to be 0:10:12.760 --> 0:10:17.160 part of your identity, like we've always had traditional Korean hahnbach, 0:10:17.320 --> 0:10:20.120 you know, the traditional dress. We've gone back and met 0:10:20.120 --> 0:10:23.600 our foster parents, they've always kind of supported us as 0:10:23.679 --> 0:10:26.280 much or as little as we wanted to investigate that 0:10:26.679 --> 0:10:28.640 there's obviously never been any secrets. 0:10:28.280 --> 0:10:29.520 About it because there couldn't be. 0:10:30.280 --> 0:10:33.720 And they've also brought us up to believe that blood 0:10:33.760 --> 0:10:36.320 is not the only way that you can find your family. 0:10:36.400 --> 0:10:39.320 So we actually aren't biologically related, my brother and I, 0:10:39.360 --> 0:10:43.080 we were born in two different biological families, and yet 0:10:43.200 --> 0:10:46.040 we have the same birthday exactly four years apart. The 0:10:46.120 --> 0:10:48.600 narrative that our parents have always kind of encouraged us 0:10:48.640 --> 0:10:50.480 with is that you know, you were obviously meant to 0:10:50.520 --> 0:10:52.560 be together, even if you weren't born in the same family. 0:10:52.640 --> 0:10:55.440 Kind of the universe conspired for you to grow up together, 0:10:55.480 --> 0:10:58.880 and we've been super close our whole lives, and that 0:10:59.400 --> 0:11:02.640 narrative really helps you sort of combat when we were younger, 0:11:02.679 --> 0:11:04.880 at least combat that feeling of well, you guys don't 0:11:04.880 --> 0:11:06.800 think there are real parents, but we were. 0:11:06.679 --> 0:11:09.280 Meant to be together. You know. It's just really they 0:11:09.280 --> 0:11:10.559 did it in a really beautiful way. 0:11:10.600 --> 0:11:13.040 I think it was literally just ring because my cousin 0:11:13.080 --> 0:11:14.520 and I were born on the same day too, and 0:11:14.559 --> 0:11:16.680 I was looking at when you have a family member 0:11:16.920 --> 0:11:19.040 who is born on the same day as you, it 0:11:19.040 --> 0:11:21.000 means you were also family members that are passed line. 0:11:21.520 --> 0:11:22.600 I really love that. 0:11:22.840 --> 0:11:25.440 Oh well, you know what's so like wild? 0:11:26.080 --> 0:11:29.680 My husband's father and grandfather were born on the first 0:11:29.720 --> 0:11:32.320 of April, and the whole of my pregnancy that was 0:11:32.480 --> 0:11:35.120 our baby's do date was the first of April, and 0:11:35.120 --> 0:11:37.240 then he ended up being born on the twenty first 0:11:37.240 --> 0:11:39.280 of March, which is like three days before my brother 0:11:39.320 --> 0:11:41.680 and I, but would have come out on the twenty 0:11:41.720 --> 0:11:47.360 four Like just so many weird alignments of family, even though. 0:11:47.400 --> 0:11:50.480 You know it's not all through blood relation and genetics. 0:11:50.760 --> 0:11:54.439 Do you remember teenage you having conversations with your mum 0:11:54.480 --> 0:11:56.880 and dad about this, because you know, we struggle with 0:11:56.920 --> 0:11:59.320 so many things during that transition in our lives, and 0:11:59.720 --> 0:12:02.199 we often, you know, we might withdraw, or we might 0:12:02.280 --> 0:12:03.880 you know, get a bit angry, or we might just 0:12:03.960 --> 0:12:08.600 be annoying teenage behavior. But do you remember how teenage 0:12:08.679 --> 0:12:09.240 you handled that? 0:12:09.720 --> 0:12:11.600 Yeah? I think in primary school it was very sort 0:12:11.640 --> 0:12:14.360 of one dimensional. The way that I accepted it. It was like, 0:12:14.440 --> 0:12:16.640 kids are bullying me, but I'm okay because my mum 0:12:16.679 --> 0:12:18.600 and dad loved me and end of story. When I 0:12:18.600 --> 0:12:20.520 got to high school, it became a little bit more 0:12:20.640 --> 0:12:23.000 layered and it wasn't so much asking mom and dad 0:12:23.360 --> 0:12:27.280 the questions. It was more how much I lent into 0:12:27.360 --> 0:12:29.880 my Asian nos if that makes sense. And I think 0:12:29.920 --> 0:12:33.480 a lot of cross cultural adoptees go through that where for. 0:12:33.440 --> 0:12:34.240 A long time. 0:12:34.320 --> 0:12:36.840 Because I grew up in a suburb and went to 0:12:36.840 --> 0:12:39.480 a primary school that wasn't very multicultural, and in the 0:12:39.559 --> 0:12:41.760 nineties we were a lot less kind of embracing of 0:12:41.880 --> 0:12:44.920 multicultural identities. I spent a lot of time suppressing that 0:12:45.040 --> 0:12:48.560 and trying to be really Bogan and Australian and prove 0:12:48.679 --> 0:12:51.400 that my grandparents were dairy farmers in the countryside, and 0:12:51.480 --> 0:12:54.400 you know, I kind of ramped up the Australian side 0:12:54.400 --> 0:12:56.400 of me, and then I went a little bit the 0:12:56.440 --> 0:12:58.960 other way at the start of high school and sort 0:12:58.960 --> 0:13:03.160 of lentinto oh, maybe being Korean, Like, now being Korean 0:13:03.240 --> 0:13:06.199 is so cool. It wasn't when I was in primary school, 0:13:06.200 --> 0:13:08.040 but in high school it started to be. And then 0:13:08.080 --> 0:13:09.640 I came back out and was like, oh no, but 0:13:09.720 --> 0:13:12.960 I don't resonate with a lot of the things that 0:13:13.120 --> 0:13:15.920 are associated with an Asian upbringing, so maybe I shouldn't 0:13:15.920 --> 0:13:18.880 represent myself that way because people would then seek me 0:13:18.920 --> 0:13:20.480 out and be like, oh, you must get it because 0:13:20.480 --> 0:13:22.520 you had tiger parents, and you must be studying really 0:13:22.559 --> 0:13:24.720 hard academically because your parents, you know. And I'm like, 0:13:24.760 --> 0:13:27.240 oh no, that wasn't me at all. So then I 0:13:27.280 --> 0:13:29.760 came back and I kind of swung back into the middle. 0:13:29.840 --> 0:13:32.920 Somewhere when I really started to drive harder questions was 0:13:32.960 --> 0:13:35.720 just around fertility. That was the first time I really thought, wait, 0:13:35.760 --> 0:13:38.920 hold on. I always knew that Mum did IVF. I 0:13:38.960 --> 0:13:41.800 always knew that obviously, with the end result was adoption, 0:13:41.880 --> 0:13:45.640 but I didn't really know when the decisions were made, 0:13:45.880 --> 0:13:48.920 or how difficult it was to do, and how expensive 0:13:48.960 --> 0:13:50.160 it is to adopt a child. 0:13:50.240 --> 0:13:51.840 And then it's really since. 0:13:51.679 --> 0:13:54.199 I've had a baby that I was adopted at five 0:13:54.240 --> 0:13:57.760 months old, sort of thinking the bit where Teddy was 0:13:57.840 --> 0:14:01.720 zero to five months, Mom didn't get that. And then 0:14:02.040 --> 0:14:03.960 this five month old that was sort of a little 0:14:04.000 --> 0:14:06.839 bit baked just was dropped into her lap, and then 0:14:06.840 --> 0:14:08.720 she got on a plane and brought them across the 0:14:08.720 --> 0:14:10.800 world and then just had to get to know this 0:14:10.920 --> 0:14:13.160 baby as if it was her own without the hormonal 0:14:13.679 --> 0:14:16.400 support that you get, you know, postpartum, And that has 0:14:16.559 --> 0:14:18.440 suddenly all dawned on me. So I've had a lot 0:14:18.480 --> 0:14:21.840 more questions this year, even than I kind of ever 0:14:21.880 --> 0:14:22.840 had in my lifetime. 0:14:22.920 --> 0:14:25.240 Actually, what's really interesting is one of my colleagues here 0:14:25.240 --> 0:14:27.360 at Mamma Mia mentioned this the other day. She works 0:14:27.400 --> 0:14:30.400 on another podcast called This Glorious Miss and they were 0:14:30.440 --> 0:14:33.880 talking about how your brain changes when you have a baby. 0:14:33.920 --> 0:14:36.520 And most people think that's only happening to the mother 0:14:36.560 --> 0:14:39.400 who biologically birth's a child, but they have found those 0:14:39.480 --> 0:14:42.960 changes actually happen in the brains of dads, and it 0:14:43.040 --> 0:14:46.160 happens in the brains of parents who adopt children too, 0:14:46.320 --> 0:14:49.960 so well, you don't have that biological bond. Her brain 0:14:50.040 --> 0:14:51.800 changed when you came into her life. 0:14:52.080 --> 0:14:53.680 That makes you want to cry. 0:14:53.680 --> 0:14:56.680 It's so beautiful, and I've always thought that it's interesting 0:14:56.720 --> 0:14:58.520 that there's now like scientific evidence behind it. 0:14:58.520 --> 0:14:59.840 Anecdotally, I've always thought of that. 0:15:00.000 --> 0:15:02.200 We have a couple of photos of the day that 0:15:02.520 --> 0:15:04.400 I arrived and then the day that my brother arrived, 0:15:04.400 --> 0:15:06.400 sort of at the airport, like the minute that we 0:15:06.440 --> 0:15:10.960 stepped onto Australian soil, and we had only met mum 0:15:11.200 --> 0:15:14.560 and dad, like maybe forty eight hours before. I think 0:15:14.800 --> 0:15:17.200 you actually pick up your child at the time you 0:15:17.240 --> 0:15:19.600 did anyway, and then within forty eight hours you're on 0:15:19.600 --> 0:15:22.120 a plane back home. Because I know that she's my mum, 0:15:22.360 --> 0:15:24.360 I'd always look back at the photos and be like, oh. 0:15:24.240 --> 0:15:26.200 Cute, Like look I'm cuddling her. It's you know, we're 0:15:26.240 --> 0:15:26.840 so close. 0:15:27.320 --> 0:15:29.880 But now I think, oh my god, we weren't close 0:15:29.920 --> 0:15:33.040 at the time, like she had just picked me literally 0:15:33.080 --> 0:15:36.560 doesn't matter, and yet I look so like that's my mom. 0:15:36.800 --> 0:15:40.160 I'm hugging into her. We just look like we have 0:15:40.240 --> 0:15:43.480 this bond. And now I'm asking her like, was I scared, like, 0:15:43.520 --> 0:15:45.080 I had no idea you were. I got on a 0:15:45.080 --> 0:15:47.240 plane for the first time. Was I crying the whole time? 0:15:47.240 --> 0:15:49.000 And She's like, no, you just kind of cuddled into 0:15:49.000 --> 0:15:50.760 me and that was it. Now I look back at 0:15:50.760 --> 0:15:53.600 those photos with that new knowledge of what having Teddy 0:15:53.680 --> 0:15:55.560 was like. I mean, I've always thought that she was 0:15:55.560 --> 0:15:58.760 the most selfless, incredible, loving person ever, but now I'm like, 0:15:58.960 --> 0:16:01.600 I just have this whole new level of Wow, you 0:16:01.640 --> 0:16:02.880 didn't need a transition period. 0:16:02.920 --> 0:16:05.360 I was your daughter straight away. That's bananas. 0:16:06.640 --> 0:16:09.640 I'm really interested to know how you feel about DNA 0:16:09.720 --> 0:16:12.440 testing like twenty three and me, because it has made 0:16:12.640 --> 0:16:15.080 tracking down relatives for people who don't know who their 0:16:15.080 --> 0:16:18.560 biological family is a hell of a lot easier, even 0:16:18.600 --> 0:16:20.920 if what they find out isn't necessarily what they wanted 0:16:20.920 --> 0:16:21.480 to find out. 0:16:21.840 --> 0:16:22.840 How do you feel about that? 0:16:23.080 --> 0:16:25.640 I probably if I had the option to add on 0:16:25.840 --> 0:16:28.880 the ancestry part as well as the medical history part, 0:16:29.200 --> 0:16:32.240 I probably wouldn't. It's not that I'm closed off to it, 0:16:32.280 --> 0:16:34.320 but I think I've maybe been influenced as well by 0:16:34.320 --> 0:16:36.400 a couple of people in our network having found out 0:16:36.440 --> 0:16:39.200 some pretty traumatic stuff and then really not knowing how 0:16:39.240 --> 0:16:42.120 to resolve that later on, because you can't unnow information 0:16:42.240 --> 0:16:42.640 as well. 0:16:43.080 --> 0:16:45.440 And the other thing was when I did the medical testing, 0:16:45.480 --> 0:16:47.520 I sort of thought, oh, this worked out really well. 0:16:47.560 --> 0:16:49.680 I don't have any precursors for Alzheimer's, I don't have 0:16:49.680 --> 0:16:51.400 any precursors for Parkinson's. 0:16:51.720 --> 0:16:54.280 But now I think, what if I had found out 0:16:54.280 --> 0:16:55.600 at eighteen that I did have those? 0:16:56.000 --> 0:16:57.720 Like sometimes I think in this day and age, we 0:16:57.760 --> 0:17:00.320 feel like we need more information, and that's necessary a 0:17:00.320 --> 0:17:03.360 good thing sometimes. I think if you know that you've 0:17:03.360 --> 0:17:05.840 got a high likelihood of something, sometimes it changes the 0:17:05.880 --> 0:17:07.399 way that you live your life, even though there's a 0:17:07.480 --> 0:17:10.320 chance you won't get that. My view changes a bit 0:17:10.440 --> 0:17:12.719 as time goes on. But maybe we don't necessarily need 0:17:12.760 --> 0:17:14.640 to know everything all the time, but it is good 0:17:14.640 --> 0:17:15.880 that if you do want to, you can. 0:17:16.480 --> 0:17:19.640 What's it like for you being a mum now and 0:17:19.760 --> 0:17:22.000 having a biological relative. 0:17:22.600 --> 0:17:28.120 It's at once incredibly profound and also at the same 0:17:28.160 --> 0:17:31.200 time not as profound as I expected, if. 0:17:31.000 --> 0:17:32.960 That makes any sense at all. 0:17:33.320 --> 0:17:38.920 It is so mind blowing, Like once a day, if 0:17:38.960 --> 0:17:41.280 not multiple times a day, I stare at him and 0:17:41.400 --> 0:17:45.359 just think, I grow that, Like what the actual like, 0:17:45.520 --> 0:17:49.359 I cannot comprehend it. That is half my husband, half me. 0:17:49.960 --> 0:17:52.760 He looks a little bit like a middle ground blend 0:17:52.840 --> 0:17:55.720 of us. And when he smiles, his cheeks are like 0:17:55.800 --> 0:17:59.080 exactly my cheeks, and no one's ever looked like me before. 0:17:59.119 --> 0:18:02.239 I've never seen my feet reflected in anyone, knowing that 0:18:02.240 --> 0:18:05.720 that was a biological thing or genetic thing, and that's fascinating, 0:18:05.840 --> 0:18:08.159 Like remembering the kicks and then knowing that those are 0:18:08.160 --> 0:18:10.080 the same little feet that have come out, and you know, 0:18:10.119 --> 0:18:13.160 all of those things are just mind blowing. Nature blows 0:18:13.200 --> 0:18:16.600 me away. But at the same time, kind of comparing 0:18:16.640 --> 0:18:20.080 that to mum being so fascinated, like watching her c 0:18:20.280 --> 0:18:22.280 zero to five months for the first time has been 0:18:22.720 --> 0:18:25.600 so moving because she never got that with us, watching 0:18:25.600 --> 0:18:28.040 her learn about breastfeeding, because she never got that, watching 0:18:28.040 --> 0:18:30.320 her be in the hospital and being like I'm useless here, 0:18:30.440 --> 0:18:32.359 like I'll help you from five months on, but I'm 0:18:32.440 --> 0:18:35.080 a newbie with you, like that was so beautiful to 0:18:35.080 --> 0:18:37.160 share that with her. But at the same time, I've 0:18:37.200 --> 0:18:39.320 sort of thought when he was five months old on 0:18:39.359 --> 0:18:42.159 that day, that was quite profound for me. My anniversary 0:18:42.200 --> 0:18:44.960 of coming to Australia was at the same day as 0:18:45.320 --> 0:18:48.400 his five month anniversary, and I sort of thought, if 0:18:48.440 --> 0:18:51.120 I met him now and I knew that he wasn't 0:18:51.160 --> 0:18:53.160 my biological child, I would love. 0:18:53.080 --> 0:18:53.600 Him the same. 0:18:53.960 --> 0:18:57.040 So it's sort of been incredibly profound and also like 0:18:57.200 --> 0:18:59.160 not as big of a deal as I thought it would. 0:18:59.200 --> 0:19:01.400 At the same time, like if we wanted to become 0:19:01.400 --> 0:19:03.560 parents and we hadn't been able to do so biologically, 0:19:03.640 --> 0:19:05.440 and we did have a really rough ride to get here, 0:19:06.480 --> 0:19:09.240 we would have adopted without thinking. And I don't think 0:19:09.240 --> 0:19:12.120 how love would have been any different. And Nick's mum 0:19:12.160 --> 0:19:14.400