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Speaker 1: Hello, lovely neighborhood. I'm back in your ears today for

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Speaker 1: the second time this week. We are double dropping because

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Speaker 1: I have a special treat from Mama MEA's daily news podcast,

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Speaker 1: The Quickie.

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Speaker 2: I was thrilled to join the.

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Speaker 1: Show with an episode all about my adoption story and

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Speaker 1: the journey over the past year or so to meeting

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Speaker 1: my first blood relative, my beautiful son Teddy. November was

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Speaker 1: Adoption Awareness Month, so if you've ever thought about adoption

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Speaker 1: as a way to expand or start your family, I

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Speaker 1: know it can be a really overwhelming area if it

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Speaker 1: hasn't been in your network before. This episode has some

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Speaker 1: information that hopefully might help or give you some insights

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Speaker 1: you haven't heard before. I was asked a few questions

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Speaker 1: I've never answered before, which was a really interesting occasion

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Speaker 1: and opportunity to reflect, and also found that some of

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Speaker 1: my answers to the questions I have discussed before had

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Speaker 1: changed since I've had Teddy, so I really enjoyed this chat.

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Speaker 1: Please take a listen to the episode, let us know

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Speaker 1: what you think, and I will be back with another

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Speaker 1: episode of CZA very soon. Hi.

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Speaker 3: I'm Claire Murphy. This is Mumma MEA's twice daily news

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Speaker 3: podcast The Quickie. It's Adoption Awareness Month and if you've

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Speaker 3: ever thought about it, even just for a second, as

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Speaker 3: a way to expand or start your family, we have

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Speaker 3: some info that might help. We'll speak to Sarah Davidson,

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Speaker 3: host of the CSDA podcast, who was herself adopted, to

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Speaker 3: also help us understand what her experience has been like

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Speaker 3: growing up adopted in Australia. Sarah Davidson shares her story

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Speaker 3: as we mark National Adoption Awareness Month. I recently read

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Speaker 3: through a thread asking for those who were adopted how

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Speaker 3: old they were when they found out. The responses showed

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Speaker 3: just how varied the adoption experience can be for those

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Speaker 3: who were given up by or taken away from their

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Speaker 3: biological families. Some felt like they were treated like not

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Speaker 3: really a part of the family. Some experience trauma even

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Speaker 3: those who were adopted as tiny babies. There were struggles

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Speaker 3: to locate biological families, especially for those adopted from overseas,

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Speaker 3: and both sad and joyous stories of biological family reunions.

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Speaker 3: There were celebrations for families who finally felt complete with

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Speaker 3: their adopted children, to those who mapped the dos and

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Speaker 3: don'ts of adoptee life like changing a child's first or

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Speaker 3: surname without their permission. Adoption is not the same for everyone,

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Speaker 3: but the truth here in Australia is that we face

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Speaker 3: significant challenges in providing permanent homes for thousands of children

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Speaker 3: in need. The most recent data from the Australian Institute

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Speaker 3: of Health and Welfare reveals that only two hundred and

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Speaker 3: one adoptions were finalized in Australia during twenty twenty two

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Speaker 3: to twenty three. This represents a ninety eight percent decline

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Speaker 3: from the nearly ten thousand adoptions recorded in nineteen seventy one.

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Speaker 3: Seventy two of those recent adoptions, one hundred and seventy

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Speaker 3: three were domestic, well twenty eight were international. Reality is

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Speaker 3: that over fifty five thousand children currently reside in out

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Speaker 3: of home care across Australia. More concerningly, around four thousand

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Speaker 3: of these children are not living in home based care,

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Speaker 3: instead staying in group homes, motels or hotels. This situation

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Speaker 3: highlights the critical need for permanent, stable family environments. Modern

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Speaker 3: adoption in Australia follows a plenary open model, where children

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Speaker 3: maintain knowledge of their heritage while forming new legal relationships

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Speaker 3: with adoptive families. The system encompasses three main categories. Local

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Speaker 3: adoptions within Australia into country adoptions through international partnerships can

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Speaker 3: known child adoptions, including step parent and relative arrangements. All

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Speaker 3: adoptions in Australia must now be open, ensuring children grow

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Speaker 3: up knowing their adoption story. Now this approach recognizes the

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Speaker 3: importance of identity and cultural connections, particularly for First Nations

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Speaker 3: children who are overrepresented in the out of home care system.

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Speaker 3: The disparity between adoption rates and the number of children

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Speaker 3: requiring permanent homes is concerning, but those in the field

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Speaker 3: know there are some serious barriers to adopting a child

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Speaker 3: in this country. The stringent eligibility process, while necessary, may

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Speaker 3: overlook a candidate due to a criminal history or health issue.

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Speaker 3: There's the financial considerations and associated costs with adoption, which

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Speaker 3: with the cost of living crisis, has made it worse

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Speaker 3: for many. The adoption process also is not a quick

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Speaker 3: one and it requires a certain level of legal assistance,

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Speaker 3: and of course, the needs of the child should be

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Speaker 3: held above all else for example, those with a disability

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Speaker 3: who might need more support, or First Nations children who

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Speaker 3: require connection to culture and need an appropriate family who

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Speaker 3: can guide them. Research shows that early stability is crucial

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Speaker 3: for children's development and their ability to thrive. Without permanent

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Speaker 3: family arrangements, many children face uncertain futures and potential negative outcomes.

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Speaker 3: The current system leaves thousands of young Australians without that

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Speaker 3: security and that nurturing and environment that they really need

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Speaker 3: for healthy development. That stable environment is something Sarah Davidson

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Speaker 3: appreciates more than she can ever express. The author, TV

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Speaker 3: and radio presenter and host of The Seas the Yay

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Speaker 3: Podcast was adopted from Korea into an Australian family. She says,

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Speaker 3: whether she and her younger brother were adopted or not

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Speaker 3: was never even a question.

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Speaker 1: My brother and I were born in South Korea and

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Speaker 1: our parents are not South Korean by heritage, so it

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Speaker 1: sort of wasn't possible in our family scenario to get

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Speaker 1: very far into our lives without us wondering why we

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Speaker 1: were completely Asian looking and they were completely Caucasian. So

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Speaker 1: it wasn't ever going to last very long for there

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Speaker 1: to be any illusion that we weren't adopted, or that

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Speaker 1: there wasn't some kind of question to be asked. And

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Speaker 1: because of that, I think it worked out beautifully because

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Speaker 1: I don't ever remember not knowing, And I think that

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Speaker 1: might be maybe the difference between some people feeling like

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Speaker 1: they've had one narrative and then it's changed later on

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Speaker 1: in their life, or you know, that.

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Speaker 2: Just was no choice for us.

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Speaker 1: So I was told before I even understood what the

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Speaker 1: word adoption was. There's no before and after the news.

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Speaker 1: I don't actually remember what the conversation was because I

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Speaker 1: was so young.

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Speaker 3: I think for those of us who haven't been exposed

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Speaker 3: to adoption, there's a real movie narrative around it. For us,

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Speaker 3: So we presume that as soon as you're kind of

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Speaker 3: aware that you're adopted, that the initial thing would be

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Speaker 3: to find out who your biological family is, and there's

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Speaker 3: that real draw to find out where you come from.

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Speaker 3: Did you experience that?

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Speaker 1: Of course, there's a curiosity from a medical background perspective,

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Speaker 1: or what you look like.

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Speaker 2: There's always a curiosity there.

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Speaker 1: But because our family here, like I never have you know,

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Speaker 1: been like my adopted parents versus my biological parents. I've

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Speaker 1: had one set of parents who raised me, who are

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Speaker 1: their only family I ever knew, who are the most loving,

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Speaker 1: incredible family, Like there was no sense of a gap

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Speaker 1: that might drive that search for something else. I think

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Speaker 1: maybe if you don't get along with your adoptive family

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Speaker 1: or you feel like something's missing, that might drive the search.

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Speaker 2: So I've never had that desire.

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Speaker 1: But then there's also the fact that there's a big

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Speaker 1: bureaucratic and logistical barrier as well. So Korea in the

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Speaker 1: eighties had like no digitization of record. Often there is

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Speaker 1: no information even if you did go on a really

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Speaker 1: big search. There's a language barrier. But then there's also

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Speaker 1: the fact that there's a big possibility that you'll find

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Speaker 1: out something that you probably didn't necessarily want to know,

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Speaker 1: like and you can't know that until you find out.

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Speaker 1: And I just thought, what is it going to add

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Speaker 1: to my life if it's positive, and what if it's

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Speaker 1: going to add to my life if it's negative.

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Speaker 2: And I don't know, it's just to me.

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Speaker 1: I sort of thought, if it is something that's quite traumatic,

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Speaker 1: I personally don't feel any trauma, and that would unner

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Speaker 1: things that maybe I don't need to know. I have

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Speaker 1: loved the family life that I've had. The way I

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Speaker 1: put it to people to kind of explain, is if

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Speaker 1: you found out now that you were adopted. It wouldn't

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Speaker 1: change that you call your mum and dad your mum

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Speaker 1: and dad. It might change that you feel you might

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Speaker 1: have sense of betrayal, and you know, all that kind

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Speaker 1: of stuff, But if someone pointed out your biological parents

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Speaker 1: in an audience, you wouldn't immediately go. Yes, I know

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Speaker 1: that if you told me they were outside, I'd be so.

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Speaker 2: Curious to go and meet them.

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Speaker 1: But if you told me it would take me twenty

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Speaker 1: years of really hard work to go and find them,

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Speaker 1: I probably wouldn't bother with it, if that makes sense.

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Speaker 3: Do you think this stigma around adoption has changed over

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Speaker 3: the years because there was this idea that and I

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Speaker 3: guess maybe stigma's not even the right word. It's almost

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Speaker 3: like you said that, sometimes adoption is seen of having

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Speaker 3: some kind of I don't know, shame attached to it,

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Speaker 3: like whether your parents experience that with not having in

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Speaker 3: quotes their own children and having to go through that

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Speaker 3: process of bringing you and your brother into their family.

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Speaker 3: And then there's this idea that because you're a different

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Speaker 3: sort of family, there's something wrong with that, you know,

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Speaker 3: And now do you feel like that has changed over time?

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Speaker 3: That we're so much more accepting of different kinds of

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Speaker 3: families now in whatever way they come together.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, one hundred percent.

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Speaker 1: I think when we were in primary school, so my

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Speaker 1: brother's four years younger than me, I definitely think it

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Speaker 1: was much more the nuclear family. It was a much

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Speaker 1: more conventional family unit time in society, if that makes sense.

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Speaker 1: And the things that we were bullied about. Parts of

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Speaker 1: it were sort of the racism of the nineties because

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Speaker 1: we were very Asian looking, but there were a lot

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Speaker 1: of questions of sort of like that's not your real

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Speaker 1: mum or that's not your real dad, and yeah, the

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Speaker 1: implication that they're not your real family and you don't

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Speaker 1: know your parents. And it's funny now looking back on that,

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Speaker 1: we're so much more accepting of a myriad of different

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Speaker 1: ways that people become a family. There is so much

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Speaker 1: less I don't know if it's stigma, but it's just

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Speaker 1: more common that families are combined in very unique and

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Speaker 1: different ways. In fact, being adopted is kind of vanilla

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Speaker 1: on the spectrum now it's not really considered that quirky's

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Speaker 1: so true. Yeah, like it's not even a story like okay, cool,

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Speaker 1: like what else? But yeah, I think we did have

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Speaker 1: a much harder time when we were younger, and it does.

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Speaker 1: It does kind of eat away at you that people

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Speaker 1: are asking questions about the legitimacy of your family bond.

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Speaker 1: And it's only because our parents, we were so communicative

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Speaker 1: and open and helped us be really well adjusted around

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Speaker 1: that part of our identity. They always sort of said,

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Speaker 1: if you want to go on a pursuit, we will

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Speaker 1: support that, if you want your Korean culture to be

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Speaker 1: part of your identity, like we've always had traditional Korean hahnbach,

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Speaker 1: you know, the traditional dress. We've gone back and met

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Speaker 1: our foster parents, they've always kind of supported us as

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Speaker 1: much or as little as we wanted to investigate that

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Speaker 1: there's obviously never been any secrets.

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Speaker 2: About it because there couldn't be.

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Speaker 1: And they've also brought us up to believe that blood

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Speaker 1: is not the only way that you can find your family.

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Speaker 1: So we actually aren't biologically related, my brother and I,

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Speaker 1: we were born in two different biological families, and yet

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Speaker 1: we have the same birthday exactly four years apart. The

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Speaker 1: narrative that our parents have always kind of encouraged us

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Speaker 1: with is that you know, you were obviously meant to

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Speaker 1: be together, even if you weren't born in the same family.

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Speaker 1: Kind of the universe conspired for you to grow up together,

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Speaker 1: and we've been super close our whole lives, and that

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Speaker 1: narrative really helps you sort of combat when we were younger,

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Speaker 1: at least combat that feeling of well, you guys don't

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Speaker 1: think there are real parents, but we were.

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Speaker 2: Meant to be together. You know. It's just really they

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Speaker 2: did it in a really beautiful way.

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Speaker 3: I think it was literally just ring because my cousin

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Speaker 3: and I were born on the same day too, and

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Speaker 3: I was looking at when you have a family member

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Speaker 3: who is born on the same day as you, it

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Speaker 3: means you were also family members that are passed line.

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Speaker 3: I really love that.

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Speaker 2: Oh well, you know what's so like wild?

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Speaker 1: My husband's father and grandfather were born on the first

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Speaker 1: of April, and the whole of my pregnancy that was

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Speaker 1: our baby's do date was the first of April, and

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Speaker 1: then he ended up being born on the twenty first

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Speaker 1: of March, which is like three days before my brother

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Speaker 1: and I, but would have come out on the twenty

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Speaker 1: four Like just so many weird alignments of family, even though.

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Speaker 2: You know it's not all through blood relation and genetics.

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Speaker 3: Do you remember teenage you having conversations with your mum

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Speaker 3: and dad about this, because you know, we struggle with

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Speaker 3: so many things during that transition in our lives, and

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Speaker 3: we often, you know, we might withdraw, or we might

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Speaker 3: you know, get a bit angry, or we might just

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Speaker 3: be annoying teenage behavior. But do you remember how teenage

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Speaker 3: you handled that?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? I think in primary school it was very sort

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Speaker 1: of one dimensional. The way that I accepted it. It was like,

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Speaker 1: kids are bullying me, but I'm okay because my mum

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Speaker 1: and dad loved me and end of story. When I

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Speaker 1: got to high school, it became a little bit more

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Speaker 1: layered and it wasn't so much asking mom and dad

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Speaker 1: the questions. It was more how much I lent into

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Speaker 1: my Asian nos if that makes sense. And I think

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Speaker 1: a lot of cross cultural adoptees go through that where for.

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Speaker 2: A long time.

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Speaker 1: Because I grew up in a suburb and went to

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Speaker 1: a primary school that wasn't very multicultural, and in the

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Speaker 1: nineties we were a lot less kind of embracing of

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Speaker 1: multicultural identities. I spent a lot of time suppressing that

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Speaker 1: and trying to be really Bogan and Australian and prove

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Speaker 1: that my grandparents were dairy farmers in the countryside, and

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Speaker 1: you know, I kind of ramped up the Australian side

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Speaker 1: of me, and then I went a little bit the

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Speaker 1: other way at the start of high school and sort

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Speaker 1: of lentinto oh, maybe being Korean, Like, now being Korean

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Speaker 1: is so cool. It wasn't when I was in primary school,

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Speaker 1: but in high school it started to be. And then

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Speaker 1: I came back out and was like, oh no, but

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Speaker 1: I don't resonate with a lot of the things that

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Speaker 1: are associated with an Asian upbringing, so maybe I shouldn't

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Speaker 1: represent myself that way because people would then seek me

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Speaker 1: out and be like, oh, you must get it because

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Speaker 1: you had tiger parents, and you must be studying really

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Speaker 1: hard academically because your parents, you know. And I'm like,

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Speaker 1: oh no, that wasn't me at all. So then I

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Speaker 1: came back and I kind of swung back into the middle.

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Speaker 1: Somewhere when I really started to drive harder questions was

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Speaker 1: just around fertility. That was the first time I really thought, wait,

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Speaker 1: hold on. I always knew that Mum did IVF. I

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Speaker 1: always knew that obviously, with the end result was adoption,

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Speaker 1: but I didn't really know when the decisions were made,

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Speaker 1: or how difficult it was to do, and how expensive

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Speaker 1: it is to adopt a child.

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Speaker 2: And then it's really since.

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Speaker 1: I've had a baby that I was adopted at five

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Speaker 1: months old, sort of thinking the bit where Teddy was

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Speaker 1: zero to five months, Mom didn't get that. And then

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Speaker 1: this five month old that was sort of a little

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Speaker 1: bit baked just was dropped into her lap, and then

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Speaker 1: she got on a plane and brought them across the

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Speaker 1: world and then just had to get to know this

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Speaker 1: baby as if it was her own without the hormonal

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Speaker 1: support that you get, you know, postpartum, And that has

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Speaker 1: suddenly all dawned on me. So I've had a lot

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Speaker 1: more questions this year, even than I kind of ever

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Speaker 1: had in my lifetime.

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Speaker 3: Actually, what's really interesting is one of my colleagues here

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Speaker 3: at Mamma Mia mentioned this the other day. She works

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Speaker 3: on another podcast called This Glorious Miss and they were

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Speaker 3: talking about how your brain changes when you have a baby.

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Speaker 3: And most people think that's only happening to the mother

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Speaker 3: who biologically birth's a child, but they have found those

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Speaker 3: changes actually happen in the brains of dads, and it

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Speaker 3: happens in the brains of parents who adopt children too,

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Speaker 3: so well, you don't have that biological bond. Her brain

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Speaker 3: changed when you came into her life.

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Speaker 2: That makes you want to cry.

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Speaker 1: It's so beautiful, and I've always thought that it's interesting

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Speaker 1: that there's now like scientific evidence behind it.

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Speaker 2: Anecdotally, I've always thought of that.

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Speaker 1: We have a couple of photos of the day that

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Speaker 1: I arrived and then the day that my brother arrived,

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Speaker 1: sort of at the airport, like the minute that we

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Speaker 1: stepped onto Australian soil, and we had only met mum

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Speaker 1: and dad, like maybe forty eight hours before. I think

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Speaker 1: you actually pick up your child at the time you

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Speaker 1: did anyway, and then within forty eight hours you're on

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Speaker 1: a plane back home. Because I know that she's my mum,

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Speaker 1: I'd always look back at the photos and be like, oh.

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Speaker 2: Cute, Like look I'm cuddling her. It's you know, we're

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Speaker 2: so close.

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Speaker 1: But now I think, oh my god, we weren't close

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Speaker 1: at the time, like she had just picked me literally

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Speaker 1: doesn't matter, and yet I look so like that's my mom.

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Speaker 1: I'm hugging into her. We just look like we have

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Speaker 1: this bond. And now I'm asking her like, was I scared, like,

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Speaker 1: I had no idea you were. I got on a

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Speaker 1: plane for the first time. Was I crying the whole time?

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Speaker 1: And She's like, no, you just kind of cuddled into

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Speaker 1: me and that was it. Now I look back at

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Speaker 1: those photos with that new knowledge of what having Teddy

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Speaker 1: was like. I mean, I've always thought that she was

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Speaker 1: the most selfless, incredible, loving person ever, but now I'm like,

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Speaker 1: I just have this whole new level of Wow, you

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Speaker 1: didn't need a transition period.

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Speaker 2: I was your daughter straight away. That's bananas.

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Speaker 3: I'm really interested to know how you feel about DNA

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Speaker 3: testing like twenty three and me, because it has made

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Speaker 3: tracking down relatives for people who don't know who their

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Speaker 3: biological family is a hell of a lot easier, even

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Speaker 3: if what they find out isn't necessarily what they wanted

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Speaker 3: to find out.

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Speaker 2: How do you feel about that?

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Speaker 1: I probably if I had the option to add on

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Speaker 1: the ancestry part as well as the medical history part,

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Speaker 1: I probably wouldn't. It's not that I'm closed off to it,

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Speaker 1: but I think I've maybe been influenced as well by

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Speaker 1: a couple of people in our network having found out

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Speaker 1: some pretty traumatic stuff and then really not knowing how

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Speaker 1: to resolve that later on, because you can't unnow information

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Speaker 1: as well.

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Speaker 2: And the other thing was when I did the medical testing,

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Speaker 2: I sort of thought, oh, this worked out really well.

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Speaker 1: I don't have any precursors for Alzheimer's, I don't have

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Speaker 1: any precursors for Parkinson's.

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Speaker 2: But now I think, what if I had found out

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Speaker 2: at eighteen that I did have those?

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Speaker 1: Like sometimes I think in this day and age, we

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Speaker 1: feel like we need more information, and that's necessary a

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Speaker 1: good thing sometimes. I think if you know that you've

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Speaker 1: got a high likelihood of something, sometimes it changes the

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Speaker 1: way that you live your life, even though there's a

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Speaker 1: chance you won't get that. My view changes a bit

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Speaker 1: as time goes on. But maybe we don't necessarily need

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Speaker 1: to know everything all the time, but it is good

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Speaker 1: that if you do want to, you can.

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Speaker 3: What's it like for you being a mum now and

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Speaker 3: having a biological relative.

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Speaker 1: It's at once incredibly profound and also at the same

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Speaker 1: time not as profound as I expected, if.

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Speaker 2: That makes any sense at all.

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Speaker 1: It is so mind blowing, Like once a day, if

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Speaker 1: not multiple times a day, I stare at him and

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Speaker 1: just think, I grow that, Like what the actual like,

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Speaker 1: I cannot comprehend it. That is half my husband, half me.

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Speaker 1: He looks a little bit like a middle ground blend

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Speaker 1: of us. And when he smiles, his cheeks are like

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Speaker 1: exactly my cheeks, and no one's ever looked like me before.

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Speaker 1: I've never seen my feet reflected in anyone, knowing that

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Speaker 1: that was a biological thing or genetic thing, and that's fascinating,

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Speaker 1: Like remembering the kicks and then knowing that those are

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Speaker 1: the same little feet that have come out, and you know,

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Speaker 1: all of those things are just mind blowing. Nature blows

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Speaker 1: me away. But at the same time, kind of comparing

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Speaker 1: that to mum being so fascinated, like watching her c

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Speaker 1: zero to five months for the first time has been

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Speaker 1: so moving because she never got that with us, watching

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Speaker 1: her learn about breastfeeding, because she never got that, watching

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Speaker 1: her be in the hospital and being like I'm useless here,

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Speaker 1: like I'll help you from five months on, but I'm

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Speaker 1: a newbie with you, like that was so beautiful to

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Speaker 1: share that with her. But at the same time, I've

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Speaker 1: sort of thought when he was five months old on

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Speaker 1: that day, that was quite profound for me. My anniversary

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Speaker 1: of coming to Australia was at the same day as

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Speaker 1: his five month anniversary, and I sort of thought, if

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Speaker 1: I met him now and I knew that he wasn't

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Speaker 1: my biological child, I would love.

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Speaker 2: Him the same.

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Speaker 1: So it's sort of been incredibly profound and also like

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Speaker 1: not as big of a deal as I thought it would.

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Speaker 1: At the same time, like if we wanted to become

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Speaker 1: parents and we hadn't been able to do so biologically,

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Speaker 1: and we did have a really rough ride to get here,

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Speaker 1: we would have adopted without thinking. And I don't think

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Speaker 1: how love would have been any different. And Nick's mum

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Speaker 1: is also adopted, which is wild. She was the first

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Speaker 1: Asian adopted into Australia, so adoption is not foreign to us.

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Speaker 1: It's always been very very clear examples that. You know,

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Speaker 1: people say blood is thicker than water. I think like

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Speaker 1: love is thicker than both.

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Speaker 3: National Adoption Awareness Month serves as a crucial reminder of

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Speaker 3: the thousands of Australian children awaiting permanent homes. It's an

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Speaker 3: opportunity to discuss how we as a society can better

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Speaker 3: support vulnerable children and ensure they have access to stable,

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Speaker 3: permanent family environments. But while we explore the challenges and

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Speaker 3: the solutions. We have to remember that behind every statistic

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Speaker 3: is a child waiting for permanency, security and the chance

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Speaker 3: to thrive in a stable family. Thanks for taking the

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Speaker 3: time to feed your mind with us today. The Quickie

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Speaker 3: is produced by me, Claire Murphy and our executive producer

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Speaker 3: Taylor Strano, with audio production by Teak and Sadler.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much for listening to this bonus episode

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Speaker 1: for you of The Quickie. If you'd like to hear

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Speaker 1: more episodes of The Quickie, it's one of my very

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Speaker 1: favorite shows. Make sure you follow or subscribe to the

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Speaker 1: show in your podcast app and there'll be a link

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Speaker 1: for you all in the show notes. I hope you're

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Speaker 1: having an amazing week and are seizing your ya