Speaker 1: I often say to people, write down three things you
Speaker 1: really love and that you enjoy, and then through areas
Speaker 1: that you'd like to change in this world, maybe directing
Speaker 1: your community, and try and join the dots and keep
Speaker 1: looking at them.
Speaker 2: Until you do.
Speaker 1: Honestly, for me, this isn't random acts of kindness, Like
Speaker 1: I don't believe it's random to be kind to someone.
Speaker 1: I believe it's like part of who we are.
Speaker 3: Welcome to the Seies the Yay Podcast. Busy and happy
Speaker 3: are not the same thing. We too rarely question what
Speaker 3: makes the heart seeing. We work, then we rest, but
Speaker 3: rarely we play and often don't realize there's more than
Speaker 3: one way. So this is a platform to hear and
Speaker 3: explore the stories of those who found lives they adore,
Speaker 3: the good, bad and ugly. The best and worst day
Speaker 3: will bear all the facets of seizing your yay. I'm
Speaker 3: Sarah Davidson or a spoonful of Sarah, a lawyer turned entrepreneur
Speaker 3: who swapped the suits and heels to co found matcha
Speaker 3: Maiden and matcha Milk Bark Sez the Ya is a
Speaker 3: series of conversations on finding a life you love and
Speaker 3: exploring the self doubt challenge, which joy and fulfillment along
Speaker 3: the way. It's so funny how the universe often throws
Speaker 3: you a quote or a message just when you need
Speaker 3: it most. I hear this so often with Quote of
Speaker 3: the Day and experience it all the time myself, and
Speaker 3: the same seems to happen with our wonderful guests. Victoria
Speaker 3: just extended its snap lockdown by another week today, so
Speaker 3: I was needing another little pep up. And while Hugh
Speaker 3: Van kyleen Berg last week is a very hard act
Speaker 3: to follow, I think you'll find our guest today just
Speaker 3: as uplifting, inspiring and a truly special soul. You may
Speaker 3: have heard me speak about Joshua Coombs on Yighborhood Watch
Speaker 3: a few days ago, and I'm so thrilled to say,
Speaker 3: not only has his book Do Something for Nothing launched
Speaker 3: in Australia just this week, he's also joined us on
Speaker 3: the show for today's episode. If you missed my intro
Speaker 3: on Monday. Joshua is a British hairdresser who took his
Speaker 3: skill onto the streets to give free haircuts to the homeless,
Speaker 3: and together with his passion and skill for storytelling, has
Speaker 3: created a global movement of kindness, connection, and humanity. His
Speaker 3: incredible book shares stories as well as before and after
Speaker 3: images of the people he's met from all over the world,
Speaker 3: including right here in Melbourne, showing the confidence, hope, and
Speaker 3: joy he brings them from just taking a moment to connect.
Speaker 3: For people who often feel invisible and misunderstood by society,
Speaker 3: Joshua is shining such an important light on homelessness and
Speaker 3: helping break down the stigma that it's still surrounded by.
Speaker 3: He's also encouraging us all to do something for nothing.
Speaker 3: For him, it's by giving out free haircuts, but he
Speaker 3: insists that we all have a skill or talent that
Speaker 3: we can share for free with others. I found him
Speaker 3: so fascinating and his stories even more captivating. You'll notice
Speaker 3: in this one the audio changes about halfway through when
Speaker 3: his airpords died with a bit of clicking just before
Speaker 3: that happens, so please excuse the glitches. But we still
Speaker 3: managed to have a pretty incredible conversation across the globe,
Speaker 3: so I'm still pretty chuffed with that.
Speaker 4: Hope you guys.
Speaker 3: Enjoy Joshua, welcome to the show.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me, Sarah. I appreciate it.
Speaker 3: Oh, thank you so much for your time. I mentioned
Speaker 3: just before we started recording, I'm quite in awe of you.
Speaker 3: It's very hard to render me speechless, But reading your
Speaker 3: book for the second time today, I was not only speechless.
Speaker 4: But almost in tears.
Speaker 3: What an extraordinary journey you've been on.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, it's been I guess about five or
Speaker 1: six years since I first started going out and cutting
Speaker 1: hair for people on the street, but the process of
Speaker 1: the book itself has been a real journey. I wrapped
Speaker 1: it all up just before Lockdown and then had time
Speaker 1: to write it during lockdown. And I really hope that
Speaker 1: the stories in there of people that I've met in
Speaker 1: different cities like resonate and do justice to the people
Speaker 1: you know that you're reading about.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, they absolutely do. You have brought so
Speaker 3: many beautiful personalities to life and stories with the photos,
Speaker 3: and I can't wait to get into all of it
Speaker 3: and love that you've turned a very tough situation of
Speaker 3: being in lockdown into a beautiful output for us all
Speaker 3: to enjoy around the world. But before we kick off,
Speaker 3: I start every interview by asking everyone what the most
Speaker 3: down to earth thing is about them. To break through
Speaker 3: the often glossy surface of our digital lives, and I mean,
Speaker 3: by nature of what you're doing, it's pretty down to
Speaker 3: earth endeavor. But for those of you who see you
Speaker 3: as an author and with a big platform, you know,
Speaker 3: what's something really normal about you that you do?
Speaker 1: Honestly, I think the best way to answer that is
Speaker 1: I can't do a week without two things, which coffee
Speaker 1: and my guitar as well. And I think the other
Speaker 1: things that even though coffee obviously shoots me up to
Speaker 1: an elevated kind of what can sometimes be too much
Speaker 1: caffeine state, the guitar is what brings me, brings me down.
Speaker 2: To a level that is my down to earth, That
Speaker 2: is my.
Speaker 1: Routing, that is kind of my Yeah, it's just like
Speaker 1: my grounding when I need it.
Speaker 2: It's the way I meditate.
Speaker 1: So I think that even though I'm doing a lot
Speaker 1: most of the time, and I'm quite a doer, and
Speaker 1: I'm trying to broadcast messages you will catch for quite
Speaker 1: a few hours when to have them just still just
Speaker 1: playing guitar on own. So that's kind of like that's
Speaker 1: a bit where I switch off from everything. So that's
Speaker 1: the way I like to say that I'm most down
Speaker 1: to worth.
Speaker 3: Oh, I love that, And actually that leads really nicely
Speaker 3: into our first section, which is your way Ta, which
Speaker 3: really traces back through all the chapters before the one
Speaker 3: of your life where most of us were walking on,
Speaker 3: which is obviously now where you have a very clear
Speaker 3: purpose and direction and message to bring to people. But
Speaker 3: I think it's easy to forget that most of us
Speaker 3: didn't start there. In fact, the first line of your
Speaker 3: book is that you didn't know what you wanted to
Speaker 3: be or where your skills were going to be, you know,
Speaker 3: best directed. So talk to us about young Joshua, what
Speaker 3: you were like as a kid. I know, music and
Speaker 3: your guitar was probably your first love and first vocation. Yeah,
Speaker 3: tell us about young you.
Speaker 1: I think it was important to include in the book
Speaker 1: that I left school feeling that it was it was
Speaker 1: the end, not the beginning, And that was based out
Speaker 1: of feeling kind of the over here in the UK
Speaker 1: our GCSEs like our school grades take when you were sixteen.
Speaker 1: It wasn't just the theoretical and like the paper side
Speaker 1: of things that I was like staring at, like those
Speaker 1: in the face. It was more like just a feeling,
Speaker 1: like a sense of from the adults around me and
Speaker 1: teachers and stuff. I was just like, oh this, you
Speaker 1: haven't done very well here, and like there's not much
Speaker 1: beyond this for you to kind of like go and pursue.
Speaker 1: And I grew up in the city Exeter in the
Speaker 1: southwest of England, but really was quite a small town
Speaker 1: when I grew up there, and it's grown a lot
Speaker 1: since then. And I had to find something. I had
Speaker 1: to find something to kind of like get my teeth
Speaker 1: into and like feel like I was part of something.
Speaker 1: And that was a guitar for me.
Speaker 2: Early on.
Speaker 1: It was my mom and my grandmother chipping in some
Speaker 1: money to buy me this. It was sort of like
Speaker 1: first grade guitar you get when you buy this little
Speaker 1: mini amp and you get this like electric. It wasn't
Speaker 1: a fender. It was called a square strat and it's
Speaker 1: like I still remember it was. It was like this
Speaker 1: first start I kit of like playing and it was
Speaker 1: just like everything I needed at the time because I
Speaker 1: just like could start playing a few chords and already
Speaker 1: I felt like, oh, this is a way of expressing
Speaker 1: myself that I didn't find in school. And to be
Speaker 1: really on like to talk about school for a second,
Speaker 1: like a lot of it was my problem and what
Speaker 1: I was trying to live up to, because the way
Speaker 1: that I survived secondary school was by trying to be
Speaker 1: liked and like having some kind of bravado where I
Speaker 1: was like, you know, liked enough by the hard kids
Speaker 1: that I didn't get beaten up and sort of like
Speaker 1: friends enough.
Speaker 2: With those guys over there, so I could kind of
Speaker 2: get on with them.
Speaker 1: And it was sort of I learned how to be
Speaker 1: a chameleon, and I was very like I learned how
Speaker 1: to be funny, to be honest. Humor was like probably
Speaker 1: the best, the best course and the best medicine for
Speaker 1: me to get through those four years because it meant
Speaker 1: I survived socially. But in doing that, it was it
Speaker 1: was looking back, it was very clear that that came
Speaker 1: at a cost, you know, like as far as like
Speaker 1: getting kicked out of lessons and classes, and obviously it
Speaker 1: was you know, quite very underfunded school went to. It
Speaker 1: wasn't all that good, Like it was a state school,
Speaker 1: so there was teachers who weren't getting paid enough. It
Speaker 1: was somewhere that I hadn't had loved that building for
Speaker 1: a while, so I sort of look back now and
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, many people did sort of finish school
Speaker 1: with the same feeling as I did. But I feel
Speaker 1: really really lucky in the sense of having not only
Speaker 1: that guitar, but it was finding a you know, friends
Speaker 1: for you through music, which was a sort of punk
Speaker 1: music movement that happened, albeit sort of twenty five years
Speaker 1: after it happened in the late.
Speaker 4: Seventies, but it was a revival.
Speaker 1: It was it was just something where like my auntie,
Speaker 1: she gave me her record collection, like her old punk
Speaker 1: vinyl collection, and she knew what she was doing. Now
Speaker 1: I think back and I'm like, she knew exactly what
Speaker 1: she was doing, but it was my sixteenth birthday and
Speaker 1: she was like, here's everything.
Speaker 2: You need to know that you haven't got right now.
Speaker 1: And it was like all these bands who were just
Speaker 1: there was these messages with punk where it was an
Speaker 1: education too. It was like a political conversation, but also
Speaker 1: just this like this kind of like I don't know,
Speaker 1: this image also embodied just this ethos which was togetherness.
Speaker 1: And I found people in the same town who were
Speaker 1: into the same thing, and yeah, we sort of got
Speaker 1: to know. I got to know people who I suppose
Speaker 1: became a friend for life.
Speaker 4: It's so interesting.
Speaker 3: I hear this more and more that maybe it's changing now,
Speaker 3: which I think is a really exciting, you.
Speaker 4: Know, direction shift education.
Speaker 3: But there are so many people who come out of
Speaker 3: school feeling firstly like it's the end, not the beginning,
Speaker 3: but also that the schooling system it favors certain types
Speaker 3: of intellect and certain types of expression that then if
Speaker 3: you don't exhibit those exact traits often lead people to
Speaker 3: think that they're not very smart, or that they don't
Speaker 3: have a way in the world for their exact talents
Speaker 3: to find a pathway where they're celebrated. And I love
Speaker 3: that the very last line of your book is that
Speaker 3: you know you're still that kid who was distracted and
Speaker 3: wanted to talk to the person next to you instead
Speaker 3: of being in classes, but that now that you know,
Speaker 3: tendency towards people and storytelling is your strength rather than
Speaker 3: something that back then you saw as a weakness. And
Speaker 3: I think something I love to emphasize on this show
Speaker 3: is that there aren't only two main forms of intellect
Speaker 3: or expression, or career or success, and that we're meant
Speaker 3: to find those gray areas in between, and that sometimes
Speaker 3: that does take a music chapter and then a hairdressing chapter,
Speaker 3: and you know, identity unravels in parts necessarily. You know
Speaker 3: you said early in the book as well, but you
Speaker 3: didn't have a burning passion to become a hairdresser. That
Speaker 3: just happened to be the next chapter, which has then
Speaker 3: led to finding what you do now. So I think, yeah,
Speaker 3: that was a wonderful insight on how music then kind
Speaker 3: of helped you rEFInd your creativity and your form of
Speaker 3: intellect definitely.
Speaker 1: And everyone's version of that is going to be different,
Speaker 1: isn't it. But I feel like some people that do
Speaker 1: have this immediate idea of like this vocation that they
Speaker 1: want to pursue, and I think that's really great when
Speaker 1: people are so driven they have that kind of that
Speaker 1: from it early on. But the best people I meet
Speaker 1: still like still working it out, and then I realized that,
Speaker 1: oh yeah, you can keep on working out whatever that's
Speaker 1: going to look like on the outside. But I think
Speaker 1: there is something important to connect to you underneath it,
Speaker 1: which is like what is it that really fills you up? Like,
Speaker 1: what is it that fills you up in a sense
Speaker 1: of like for me, it is people, and it is stories,
Speaker 1: you know, and like I'm really extra in that way,
Speaker 1: and I've always been out there talking to people and
Speaker 1: get to know people. And I know you can't just
Speaker 1: build a career around that as such, but it does
Speaker 1: give you some kind of indicators of like where it
Speaker 1: is you might want to go. You know, I always
Speaker 1: knew I wasn't going to be behind the desk, and
Speaker 1: I think that that's totally cool if that's your trip too.
Speaker 1: But I really hope that younger people. And when I do,
Speaker 1: I give talks in schools and I talk about my
Speaker 1: experiences and I'm like, oh, yeah, I'm not saying follow
Speaker 1: what I did ever, But it's just it's important to
Speaker 1: recognize that at fifteen or sixteen or seventeen or eighteen,
Speaker 1: those kind of teenage formative years, like it's the beginning
Speaker 1: and like no one should make you feel like you're
Speaker 1: a failure in anything, Like you're not supposed to always
Speaker 1: know exactly what it is you're supposed to do that age.
Speaker 1: And I think the best thing to do is is
Speaker 1: not put that pressure on people. As long as that
Speaker 1: pressure is on people, then I think we're good because
Speaker 1: as long as it's support on as long as it's love,
Speaker 1: and if you're lucky enough to have that around you,
Speaker 1: then hopefully it will work itself out. But I do
Speaker 1: worry about the other side of it because I know
Speaker 1: people who felt the same as me, and you know,
Speaker 1: that can go in some difficult directions, you know, and
Speaker 1: people can rebel in different ways that hurt other people
Speaker 1: around them.
Speaker 2: And you know, if you put.
Speaker 1: That pressure on someone who hasn't got that support new
Speaker 1: work at home, who hasn't got that lover around them,
Speaker 1: who hasn't got a safety net, that can come out
Speaker 1: in all kinds of different ways.
Speaker 4: Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 3: And how lucky that you did have an aunt and
Speaker 3: a mum who knew that music would give you a
Speaker 3: really important vehicle to express yourself and find the next chapter.
Speaker 3: But given that you didn't actually have a burning passion
Speaker 3: to go into hairdressing, how did that become after doing
Speaker 3: gigs and tours and working in bars, like, how did
Speaker 3: that become your next step?
Speaker 1: It was honestly, it was something that I sort of
Speaker 1: joke about with my friends now as well, because it
Speaker 1: had this stigma attached to it, hedgress some what were
Speaker 1: called in the UK. And you know, you're a hair
Speaker 1: stylist if it's in the US. But it's like I
Speaker 1: didn't see the route in for me initially because I
Speaker 1: sort of saw it as something that used to be
Speaker 1: these little salons on the corner and not something that
Speaker 1: was like really creative and had all kinds of people
Speaker 1: like doing all kinds of things in this industry. So
Speaker 1: I think it has this perception from the outside from
Speaker 1: like people who just walk into a cell or a barbershop,
Speaker 1: and then when you get into the industry, you just
Speaker 1: see like, wow, you were just your mind's blown by
Speaker 1: like everything that's going on and like how passionate people are.
Speaker 2: But yeah, for me, honestly, it wasn't that. It wasn't
Speaker 2: that that.
Speaker 1: Feeling of sort of fall in love with the industry
Speaker 1: and that side of cutting hair.
Speaker 2: It was I knew I played guitar.
Speaker 1: I knew I could do that, and I thought, like,
Speaker 1: these hands aren't very good at like putting up shelves
Speaker 1: and doing DIY.
Speaker 2: So I was like, it's kind.
Speaker 1: Of like, what's that the next thing that I can
Speaker 1: maybe do and get my hands into it.
Speaker 2: And I feel almost like bad and I'm offending people
Speaker 2: in that way.
Speaker 1: And I was naive, as I put in the book,
Speaker 1: But I just like, I thought, how hard can this be?
Speaker 1: I walk into a sound and ask if they need
Speaker 1: me help. And I was like twenty four to twenty
Speaker 1: five at the time, so it was a bit of
Speaker 1: a humbling process. Like I walk in and you know,
Speaker 1: you're usually trying to be a head just when you're
Speaker 1: like sixteen and you start shampooing people of that age,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, I was doing this in my mid twenties.
Speaker 1: So to answer your question, it was like it was
Speaker 1: a very humbling experience, and it was something that came
Speaker 1: from music kind of.
Speaker 2: Not really happening anymore, and.
Speaker 1: A relationship in my life ended like that was quite
Speaker 1: kind of a long relationship, and those two things kind
Speaker 1: of it just felt like this a rebirth of sorts
Speaker 1: that I needed to get my head into something, and
Speaker 1: it was that. And I feel so thankful that I
Speaker 1: got that opportunity because I worked for free for the
Speaker 1: first year still, so basically I had to work jobs
Speaker 1: around that, doing cafes and pubs and stuff like that
Speaker 1: just to sort of pay rent for that year. And
Speaker 1: then after that I was sort of fast track to
Speaker 1: be in a stylis straight away because I picked it
Speaker 1: up quite quickly, but it was really humbling. It was
Speaker 1: an amazing experience. I realized quite quickly held like, obviously
Speaker 1: that role was a headress, so of course you want
Speaker 1: to make someone look good on the outside. But yeah,
Speaker 1: very quickly I was like, Okay, this is probably why
Speaker 1: I got into it. Because I'm talking to people each day,
Speaker 1: people can confine in you. You're of course busy, and
Speaker 1: it's not always that easy. Sometimes you're back to back
Speaker 1: and you're rushing through the day, but I realized how
Speaker 1: important it is to be there for that person in
Speaker 1: front of you.
Speaker 4: It's really interesting that.
Speaker 3: I think it's actually even more fascinating that you didn't
Speaker 3: end up in it because you were so desperately passionate
Speaker 3: about that career. Because it's again another really important reminder
Speaker 3: that inevitably the dots will connect, even if you don't
Speaker 3: know what it the time, And now looking at what
Speaker 3: you've done with that particular skill, it makes absolute sense
Speaker 3: why that was what you gravitated towards. And one of
Speaker 3: my best friends is a hairdresser, actually owns a couple
Speaker 3: of salons, is incredibly successful, and one of the things
Speaker 3: that happens to her often is this, I think there's still.
Speaker 4: Is a little bit of stigma that.
Speaker 3: It's you know, a less educated job that you are
Speaker 3: just you know, engaging in the superficial and making people
Speaker 3: look good for you know, an event or whatever. But really,
Speaker 3: she's like, you are seeing people at their most vulnerable often,
Speaker 3: you know, you have counter patients who need their heads
Speaker 3: shave for the first time, or you're being entrusted with
Speaker 3: She's like, I could ruin some people with the secrets
Speaker 3: that get told to me. Like that chair is as
Speaker 3: valuable as as a therapist's chair.
Speaker 1: Definitely, Honestly, that's that's it, Like it really we've got
Speaker 1: this sneaky way of getting in there and like just
Speaker 1: fishing for secrets, like you know, honestly though genuinely it's
Speaker 1: not that calculative, but it is amazing that you're write
Speaker 1: that chair can provide that trust, you can define it like,
Speaker 1: so I think what's interesting too as well? You're right,
Speaker 1: I mean there's so many different cases of people kind
Speaker 1: of heckut can be like a new chapter in your life,
Speaker 1: you know, if like a relationship's ended and like you
Speaker 1: want to, oh you want to start a new job
Speaker 1: or you know, as you said on the flip side,
Speaker 1: it could be someone trusting you with something where they're
Speaker 1: in a really difficult position and they really want your
Speaker 1: advice and they want your knowledge on like how best
Speaker 1: to sort of make them feel better in those moments.
Speaker 1: So we all need, I think, people outside of our
Speaker 1: circle to talk to. And that's the reason why people
Speaker 1: will go to a therapist, because it's that objectivity, you know,
Speaker 1: And I think you have your support network within your
Speaker 1: friends and your family hopefully and beyond.
Speaker 2: That, you do people to be able to sort of
Speaker 2: share with.
Speaker 1: And I think that the headress is a way that
Speaker 1: I think, Okay, it's not prescribed in the same way
Speaker 1: and it's not on paper, that's not the first reason
Speaker 1: you go. But as part of that process and as
Speaker 1: part of that experience, I've seen that time and time
Speaker 1: again in the out on and like I definitely now
Speaker 1: in the work that I do, I experienced that on
Speaker 1: the street. And the reason for that, I believe is
Speaker 1: also because when you face to face with someone that
Speaker 1: sometimes for me is like all right, if you're getting
Speaker 1: to know someone new, that like, I'm quite good in
Speaker 1: those scenarios, but it took me a while to sort
Speaker 1: of grow into that and for some people that's just
Speaker 1: not that easy, you know, to like be looking someone
Speaker 1: straight on eye contact. But for me, when I'm cutting
Speaker 1: out on the street, I'm usually for most part and
Speaker 1: behind someone or to the side, and they're looking out
Speaker 1: at the world and looking out the street where they
Speaker 1: were before. And I think that is actually a really
Speaker 1: interesting part of it because it's not this really intense interaction.
Speaker 1: I feel people relax into it, and I think that
Speaker 1: that's what's kind of been able to then have those
Speaker 1: conversations that are a bit more intimate, and I never
Speaker 1: pry or push for like any particular bit of information.
Speaker 2: You just see what happens. You just have a chat
Speaker 2: like I.
Speaker 1: Would have done in the chair in the sound, and
Speaker 1: sometimes you get to know someone in a deeper way,
Speaker 1: and sometimes it's just more surface level.
Speaker 3: Yet I actually loved reading about that in every single
Speaker 3: story from the book, that it all starts with a
Speaker 3: very casual convert station. It isn't kind of like I'm
Speaker 3: going to cut your hair and change your life and
Speaker 3: give you confidence, blah blah blah. You know, like the
Speaker 3: scissors don't actually come out until you've really sat down
Speaker 3: and engaged with them. As a person first, which I thought,
Speaker 3: think is really beautiful talk us through that time in
Speaker 3: twenty fifteen when it all started to change your understanding
Speaker 3: of your role and what.
Speaker 4: You could do with your skill.
Speaker 3: Was it because you tried it first? I think you
Speaker 3: were walking to work or walking to a friend's house
Speaker 3: and you saw a guy on the street, And how
Speaker 3: long had you been in the salon?
Speaker 4: Firstly?
Speaker 3: And then how did this do something for nothing movement develop?
Speaker 1: Oh, it was really interesting how it began because I'd
Speaker 1: been working in a sund for probably only about three
Speaker 1: years at that time, so I was just getting to
Speaker 1: the stage where I was like building a clientele, getting
Speaker 1: to know people who'd come back and see me a lot.
Speaker 1: Like I guess it started to flourish, like why I
Speaker 1: had got into this sort of become a headdress. What
Speaker 1: I thought, I was going to work in a salon
Speaker 1: and keep doing this and maybe have my own salon
Speaker 1: one day and all that. Those kinds of things I've
Speaker 1: never done. The five year plan, three year I'm usually
Speaker 1: like about a few months ahead of myself most of
Speaker 1: the time in my life, and I think that that's
Speaker 1: like for the first time, actually, I started to feel
Speaker 1: and sound.
Speaker 2: I was like, Okay, maybe this is like what I'm
Speaker 2: going to do.
Speaker 1: I started thinking future tents, but that all changed and
Speaker 1: it was I kind of like look back, and I
Speaker 1: feel like I knew it was going to because it
Speaker 1: was that side of this that I've spoken about, was
Speaker 1: that kind of like being there for the person in
Speaker 1: front of you. That on one day, I had my
Speaker 1: backpack with me and I was on the way to
Speaker 1: another client's head. I basically I was on the way
Speaker 1: to a client's house where I do the outside of
Speaker 1: work to get some extra pocket money, and I had
Speaker 1: my things with me and my backpack and I saw
Speaker 1: somebody who was on the street and I ended up
Speaker 1: giving them a haircut instead, And that was not something
Speaker 1: I actually really thought through that much, and effact, I'm
Speaker 1: really glad that I didn't have much time to sort
Speaker 1: of think about whether that's a good idea to ask
Speaker 1: somebody or whether it's something i'd really need, because let's
Speaker 1: be honest, like if you haven't got somewhere to stay
Speaker 1: that night, or you're not sure where you're getting your
Speaker 1: next meal from, it's like here I am turning up
Speaker 1: with I like, fancy a haircut?
Speaker 2: I said, you know, I probably could have done some.
Speaker 1: In a dialogue that would have you know, maybe told
Speaker 1: me that might not be the right thing to do.
Speaker 1: But instead I just I was buying someone a coffee
Speaker 1: and I sat down with them, and I just remember
Speaker 1: I had my all my stuff with me, and I
Speaker 1: offered this personal haircut and they said yes. And that
Speaker 1: really was the beginning of all of this, because without
Speaker 1: that first interaction, I don't know what you're doing now.
Speaker 1: I think I'd like to think that probably would have
Speaker 1: happened anyway, but another time.
Speaker 2: But from that it.
Speaker 1: Was the you know, the beginning of a few months
Speaker 1: of going out and doing this more and more. So
Speaker 1: I was immediately hit with this importance of not just
Speaker 1: the skill I had to go and give someone like
Speaker 1: a transformation and like make them, you know, kind of
Speaker 1: clean them up a bit, and obviously like giving them
Speaker 1: the mirror. At the end was this really beautiful moment
Speaker 1: of seeing somebody sort of you know, recognize someone they
Speaker 1: had seen for a while and and hopefully feel a
Speaker 1: little bit more confident and more dignified. But honestly, straight away,
Speaker 1: it was the conversation. It was being able to sit
Speaker 1: down and listen and listen to someone's story, and it
Speaker 1: was that that I became really addicted to begin with,
Speaker 1: and I knew it was that side of it that
Speaker 1: I had this itch. Then I was just like, I've
Speaker 1: got to go out and keep doing this, and the
Speaker 1: stories I was hearing just dissolved, like all these myths
Speaker 1: that surrounded this word homeless that I feel like, you know,
Speaker 1: I had to work out what kind of over the
Speaker 1: years had been my own opinion about this issue, and
Speaker 1: what had been just things that had stuck to me
Speaker 1: from the information I was getting from different articles. And
Speaker 1: you know, it was just within the first five people
Speaker 1: or ten people I met, you know, I met someone
Speaker 1: who had their own business and you know, I had
Speaker 1: a family and ended up losing it all. I also met,
Speaker 1: like on the other side of that coin, like someone
Speaker 1: who grew up in a really difficult neighborhood who didn't
Speaker 1: really have many chances and much of a support network,
Speaker 1: you know, those younger people and older people, And I
Speaker 1: just thought, this thing is just, you know, on the surface,
Speaker 1: it sometimes has this kind of this look that you know,
Speaker 1: we feel like it's just people making mistakes or choosing
Speaker 1: kind of like a certain path and it just really
Speaker 1: is not like that, And even when it is, I
Speaker 1: was thinking, you know, I've made mistakes in my own
Speaker 1: life and make bad choices, but like I'm thankful enough,
Speaker 1: like there's been people around me who've been able to.
Speaker 2: Support me in those moments.
Speaker 1: So yeah, from that first heck, the story was like
Speaker 1: I suppose for me my own story change, which was
Speaker 1: like the listening that I do in the song and
Speaker 1: that kind of being there for someone.
Speaker 2: I learned how to do that, I think in a
Speaker 2: different way. On the street.
Speaker 1: I used to try and fill all the gaps in
Speaker 1: a conversation and be like, okay, this is how we interact.
Speaker 2: My turn to talk, your turn to talk.
Speaker 1: I learned to get really quiet and be able to
Speaker 1: when someone's talking, just stay quiet and listen to what
Speaker 1: else they have to say after the bit where you
Speaker 1: digitally kick in and say something else. From those first
Speaker 1: few people, it turned into, as I said, ten to
Speaker 1: twenty people, and I've got days off and do this,
Speaker 1: And then I ended up leaving my job probably about
Speaker 1: three or four months after I started doing this, And
Speaker 1: that was on a whim really, to be.
Speaker 3: Honest, Wow, oh my gosh, I mean I love that
Speaker 3: so much that you mentioned that it might not have
Speaker 3: actually happened if you'd had more time to think about it.
Speaker 3: And I think there are a couple of things that
Speaker 3: can kill really good ideas, and one of them is
Speaker 3: overthinking and over.
Speaker 2: Planning, yeah, for sure.
Speaker 3: And the other one is the idea of you know,
Speaker 3: it's important to have certainty instability to an extent, and
Speaker 3: to sort of plan for the future. But sometimes if
Speaker 3: your plans are too rigidly set in stone, you preclude
Speaker 3: the possibility of something better turning up, like this idea
Speaker 3: that you could just roll with and just see what happened.
Speaker 3: And who knew that four months later you'd have left
Speaker 3: your job to actually do this full time. But how
Speaker 3: extraordinary that it grew so quickly into something that consumed you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I think it's a really really good
Speaker 1: point you're making, because you're right the thing about stuff,
Speaker 1: I think so many you're writ so many good ideas.
Speaker 1: I think we have them, and then we have this
Speaker 1: internal dialogue, but it's sometimes not all that useful. And
Speaker 1: I know that we need to, like, yeah, we need
Speaker 1: to weigh things up in our mind in our life
Speaker 1: and work out the dos and don'ts and try and
Speaker 1: make a measured decision based on those. But some of
Speaker 1: these things, and I talk about this a lot, is
Speaker 1: you know, especially when people ask me questions saying, you know,
Speaker 1: how best is it to go out and interact with
Speaker 1: someone who's experience in homelessness, and how do you approach somebody,
Speaker 1: and like the sort of guide to as far as
Speaker 1: like how you'd have one of these kinds of interactions.
Speaker 1: And often I said, well, I can answer those questions
Speaker 1: or I can respond to them, but just to let
Speaker 1: you know, like this area that we're talking about and
Speaker 1: these kind of questions no point of fingers. But it's
Speaker 1: usually the biggest part of the problem, which is thinking
Speaker 1: there's all these questions that you need to answer and
Speaker 1: all the how to work you just go up and
Speaker 1: say hello and how are you? And I think the
Speaker 1: more I do this, the more I realize that I
Speaker 1: still have those moments and it's so normal to have them,
Speaker 1: to think, you know, it's not that easy sometimes to
Speaker 1: like approach a complete stranger. I'm so I'm talking from
Speaker 1: a side of rewinding and thinking about what this was
Speaker 1: like from me before and having empathy for that. It's
Speaker 1: not that easy, Like, sometimes you need to get outside
Speaker 1: of your comfort zone, especially in the scenario that I'm
Speaker 1: talking about, where you're talking people who are often in
Speaker 1: a very difficult position, sometimes suffering a lot with different issues.
Speaker 1: So I'm not going to sit here for a second
Speaker 1: and say get out there and do it. It's really easy,
Speaker 1: but I'd like to say play out the worst case scenario.
Speaker 1: And I do that for myself sometimes when I sometimes
Speaker 1: feel a little bit nervy about talking to somebody new,
Speaker 1: and it's like, you know, it's the middle of the day,
Speaker 1: usually it's a busy street, there's somebody sat there by
Speaker 1: a cash point, in a supermarket, a bus stop, in
Speaker 1: a doorway.
Speaker 2: They're not looking too good, or maybe they are, and
Speaker 2: they're smiling, so that makes it easy.
Speaker 1: But even if the energy is not so good, it's
Speaker 1: like if I got up and I say, hey, how
Speaker 1: are you doing, What's like, you know, just draw their attention, smile.
Speaker 2: I'm even going to be met with a smile back,
Speaker 2: a kind of like.
Speaker 1: Warm interaction, maybe one that's a bit cagy, And then
Speaker 1: I think it's important just to read that energy.
Speaker 2: And oftentimes I will always just say to people, can I.
Speaker 1: Can I sit and chat with you for a while,
Speaker 1: and then if someone doesn't want to do that, if
Speaker 1: they're not feeling right, the worst case scenario is that
Speaker 1: they tell you to go away, and they might do
Speaker 1: it in some slightly aggressive way. They might not be
Speaker 1: having a good day. But in all the years I've
Speaker 1: been doing this, like, I've never had anyone become violent
Speaker 1: towards me. I've never had anyone lash out at me.
Speaker 1: It's just about what do I do with that moment
Speaker 1: if someone doesn't want to talk to me and they're
Speaker 1: not feeling good and they're having a bad day, which,
Speaker 1: by the way, I often have those days before coffee
Speaker 1: in the morning, I don't want to talk to anyone,
Speaker 1: you know, or we wonder what it's like to have
Speaker 1: those days. We're like, you know what today talking to
Speaker 1: nobody would be amazing, like and I think I just
Speaker 1: recognize that to allow for someone else's bad days, to
Speaker 1: allow for my.
Speaker 2: Own, And then it's really important just to say, like
Speaker 2: what do I do with that?
Speaker 1: Am I going to take that experience and walk off
Speaker 1: and say, oh, I'm really hurt by that, and like
Speaker 1: I'm not going to approach somebody in that way again,
Speaker 1: And let that be the lesson or just think, okay, cool,
Speaker 1: like that experience exists where it did, I'm going to
Speaker 1: leave it there and I'm going to walk on and
Speaker 1: the next person I see is a brand new interaction.
Speaker 3: I love that, And I think something that I think
Speaker 3: it was Nathan pointed out that's really important in.
Speaker 4: All human interactions.
Speaker 3: I think there are so many lessons about humanity generally,
Speaker 3: is that I think sometimes you want to offer sympathy,
Speaker 3: whereas really someone just wants empathy. And because sympathy can
Speaker 3: become in there is a very fine line. They're very
Speaker 3: kind of conflated concept sometimes, but sympathy puts distance between
Speaker 3: you and someone is like I'm the helper and you're
Speaker 3: the vulnerable. But empathy is like we're actually just all
Speaker 3: people and I'm just trying to sit down and have
Speaker 3: a chat. If you're having a shit day, I'll leave
Speaker 3: you alone. I'll move on to someone else. And I
Speaker 3: loved that distinction because I think homeless people would often
Speaker 3: get sympathy when that's actually not a helpful, necessarily emotion.
Speaker 1: I'm so glad you mentioned that. It is so important
Speaker 1: because like that, it's specific interaction. Nathan, who I met
Speaker 1: in Brisbane. It was like that in a nutshell, is
Speaker 1: such a great lesson? Is like sympathy honestly a lot
Speaker 1: of the time is actually a really useless emotion or
Speaker 1: like a useless kind of And I don't mean that
Speaker 1: in a bad way. It's okay to feel, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: they're having a really bad time, like I do feel
Speaker 1: for them right now, but if you're on the receiving.
Speaker 2: End of that, there's not much you can do with that.
Speaker 1: I put myself in that scenario a lot of like
Speaker 1: what would be like for me if I was living
Speaker 1: outside and most of the interactions I had were ones
Speaker 1: where I had to go and like ask someone for something,
Speaker 1: whether that be like a shelter or a food bank,
Speaker 1: or you know, someone from the street, like whether they've
Speaker 1: got some change. And I think after quite a few
Speaker 1: of those interactions, I probably would feel like it's not
Speaker 1: very dignified process, and the last thing I'd want is
Speaker 1: sympathy on top of that to feel like I'm not
Speaker 1: a human being. It's like, I'm just in a difficult
Speaker 1: position and this is where I'm at right now. But
Speaker 1: as Nathan said, sympathy is kind of useless to him.
Speaker 1: It's like try and like build a bridge of empathy.
Speaker 1: And I really think that that just starts with like
Speaker 1: those first blocks. It's like, Okay, you might not be
Speaker 1: able to imagine completely like all the nuances of someone's
Speaker 1: life and what they're going through now, but you can
Speaker 1: sit on that a little bit and you can kind
Speaker 1: of get there, you know. I think it's it's another
Speaker 1: thing where there's these platitude we say to people, and
Speaker 1: I think it happens a lot through grief and loss
Speaker 1: as well, where people say, I can't imagine what that
Speaker 1: would be, Like, God, I can't imagine what.
Speaker 2: You're going through, And I think you can. I think
Speaker 2: you can actually, like you can try. Yeah, I think
Speaker 2: you can.
Speaker 1: I think you can work out what it's like to
Speaker 1: sit down and it's not easy and it's not nice,
Speaker 1: but to think about losing a loved one or a
Speaker 1: friend or someone who's really did to you, you probably
Speaker 1: can imagine what it's like not to have them in
Speaker 1: your life anymore. But it's saying you can't imagine, or
Speaker 1: saying kind of, you know, putting someone on that island
Speaker 1: then where they're kind of they're further away from you.
Speaker 1: It isolates somebody. So I think it's better to start
Speaker 1: on that route and that direction, even if you're like,
Speaker 1: hands up, I don't know all of it, but that's
Speaker 1: an important road to take rather than pity and sympathy.
Speaker 2: So I think is a really interesting point to raise.
Speaker 3: I also loved I think one of the really powerful
Speaker 3: reflections from you towards the end as well, after having
Speaker 3: done a tour of you know, multiple different countries with
Speaker 3: your scissors and meeting so many different people, was that
Speaker 3: homelessness is you know, the greatest, most obvious challenges are
Speaker 3: surviving on the street and warmth and food, but actually
Speaker 3: those basic survival instincts are not as difficult as the
Speaker 3: social isolation psychologically that people face, Like I think that's
Speaker 3: so sad that there are huge populations of people that are,
Speaker 3: you know, considered invisible, that either get only pity and
Speaker 3: sympathy or I just treated as if they're not there.
Speaker 3: And the simplest gesture, even if it's not necessarily creating
Speaker 3: a full movement called do something for nothing and writing
Speaker 3: a book, even just a smile. I think you wrote
Speaker 3: wrote quite a few pages about the impact of giving
Speaker 3: someone a smile and what's the worst that can happen.
Speaker 3: They don't smile back. I mean, no one's died of that, so.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly right.
Speaker 1: You know, it's sometimes putting it in those simplest of
Speaker 1: terms to feel like, you know, really, come on, what
Speaker 1: is that going to cost you?
Speaker 2: Is free? We've all got it. And I think what.
Speaker 1: You're saying is really it's the crux of everything the
Speaker 1: book's about and everything that I try and body, like
Speaker 1: the ethos would do something for nothing is honestly for
Speaker 1: the record, like you smiling at someone is as important
Speaker 1: as me writing this whole book and doing this. What
Speaker 1: I'm trying to say is like this is just my
Speaker 1: version of it, but this is something that has existed.
Speaker 1: It's an inherent part of being a human. It's like
Speaker 1: you need those social interactions. We hard word for the stuff.
Speaker 1: We wouldn't survive without sharing.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: Of course we've always had conflict, we've always had struggle,
Speaker 1: but in terms of crisis, like we've had to share
Speaker 1: and we've had to come together and from smaller tribes
Speaker 1: many years ago to where we are now with so
Speaker 1: much comfort and so many people with the affluence and
Speaker 1: comfort who are without and who are suffering.
Speaker 2: But you're right.
Speaker 1: I think, of course there's that material side, and I
Speaker 1: do have the political conversation too, where of course you
Speaker 1: need more affordable house and of course we need to
Speaker 1: changing like the way that we kind of run our
Speaker 1: cities to like leave so many people falling through the cracks.
Speaker 1: But that's social isolation at the sharp end, when you
Speaker 1: are already isolated, and when you are already out there
Speaker 1: and you're living on the street, it's like those things
Speaker 1: are a huge They have fundamental parts of what we
Speaker 1: all need, so for them to be discounted, it's just
Speaker 1: like there they can be everything to someone. I've met people,
Speaker 1: I've heard stories of people who are like, you know,
Speaker 1: ready to end it, or and someone bothering to have
Speaker 1: that conversation and bothering to smile with them. Like it
Speaker 1: can be the difference. It's not a complete solution, it's
Speaker 1: not a complete answer. I know sometimes that the way
Speaker 1: that people work it is very methodical, and they want
Speaker 1: to think about kind of like seeing clear, tangible results
Speaker 1: for the work they do in this world, and like
Speaker 1: like I want change, Like I want change that happen.
Speaker 2: I want to see these numbers reduced.
Speaker 1: I want to see a number of people dying on
Speaker 1: the street each year, like reducing the time here on
Speaker 1: this earth, trying to get more people inside and kind
Speaker 1: of looked after.
Speaker 2: But in the meantime, I'm like, what can I do today?
Speaker 2: What are the things I can do today?
Speaker 1: Because I can certainly walk out into this world and be, like,
Speaker 1: you know, when I'm able, like spend a bit more
Speaker 1: time with people, be more aware of one another, as
Speaker 1: you said, like those simple things that smile that how
Speaker 1: are you?
Speaker 2: That's like the.
Speaker 1: Value of that for me is just it's so huge,
Speaker 1: and I see it played out in the work I
Speaker 1: do all the time.
Speaker 3: That also makes me think about how dramatically your relationship
Speaker 3: to concepts like success must you know, have changed over
Speaker 3: this whole journey and the meaning of impact. And you
Speaker 3: mentioned the word value, like I think one of the
Speaker 3: stories that resonated very very strongly with me from the
Speaker 3: book was the family who's living on skid row in
Speaker 3: la and how even headed they sounded about wealth being
Speaker 3: like just so far from the be all and end
Speaker 3: all of happiness and fulfillment, and how joyful they were that,
Speaker 3: you know, the positives they could find in their life
Speaker 3: that they had each other, that they had a roof
Speaker 3: over their head, albeit that it was a tent on
Speaker 3: skid row, that they could see what they had to
Speaker 3: be grateful for, versus someone who didn't have a tent
Speaker 3: and who was out on the street. And I think
Speaker 3: concepts that a lot of us face in our day
Speaker 3: to day lives, like the glorification are busy and like that,
Speaker 3: you know, relentless forward movement for success that doesn't necessarily
Speaker 3: make anyone happy. How has that all changed for you
Speaker 3: over your journey and how have you funded yourself having
Speaker 3: left your job as well, like to keep going on
Speaker 3: this mission? And now what does impact and success mean?
Speaker 1: I'm a victim to all of those things as well,
Speaker 1: Like that to do list in my mind to put
Speaker 1: up post on my Instagram a couple of days ago
Speaker 1: and on such a release which was like getting redal
Speaker 1: with my own mental health sometimes and realizing that to
Speaker 1: be really honest, the last couple of months, like I've
Speaker 1: had that sort of fictitious to do list, where like
Speaker 1: sometimes in my head each day, like my success has
Speaker 1: been making sure I do everything that I've said I'm
Speaker 1: going to do in my head by the end of
Speaker 1: the day. And if I don't then like it's not
Speaker 1: been such a good day, and days blended into weeks,
Speaker 1: and weeks blend into months, and I sort of came
Speaker 1: down the line a couple of months into like this,
Speaker 1: I love how you said yes, like glorifying like this
Speaker 1: word busy, and like I'm busy. I'm productive if I'm
Speaker 1: doing all the things I need to do. And I
Speaker 1: came out at the end of this this full on
Speaker 1: busy couple of months doing that feeling awful, like feeling
Speaker 1: really terrible, like not available for people, not available for myself.
Speaker 1: So I still today like doing the work that I do.
Speaker 2: I have to check in with that.
Speaker 1: So I think it's rather than feeling pessimistic about the
Speaker 1: concept that it's going to keep coming back at you,
Speaker 1: it's like, I think it's actually positive because we are
Speaker 1: all beings that, like society's version of what success and
Speaker 1: busy is, sometimes really matters because you need to pay
Speaker 1: the rent and you need to have the things around
Speaker 1: you that make you feel comfortable, and you might have
Speaker 1: a family as well, like I want kids one day,
Speaker 1: and I want to be able to make sure they
Speaker 1: can do the things that they want to do as well.
Speaker 1: So like these material things matter conceptually to like to
Speaker 1: have the things that we have to whatever your version
Speaker 1: of success looks like, and that would be different for everyone,
Speaker 1: Like my version of.
Speaker 2: That is going to be way different than another person's.
Speaker 1: But buying into that why is a really dangerous game
Speaker 1: because like somewhere inside you, there's somebody who longs for
Speaker 1: the things that like we haven't evolved past, which is
Speaker 1: like feeling purpose in this like life, feeling like you're
Speaker 1: involved in things that like are authentic to you and
Speaker 1: who you are, and like again that's just everyone's version
Speaker 1: of that is so different. But for me, I just
Speaker 1: know that when I leave those things by the wayside,
Speaker 1: like I'm always a couple of months away from getting
Speaker 1: my head in a tangle and having to like really
Speaker 1: take some time out, and I feel that we can
Speaker 1: help each other through that, and like it's culturally it
Speaker 1: does take a bit of a shift. I'm not saying
Speaker 1: that I'm against like everyone crushing it to do everything
Speaker 1: they need to like become successful, but I'm trying to
Speaker 1: have this conversation as lots of people are online, just
Speaker 1: to recognize like these human moments, these interactions, like being vulnerable,
Speaker 1: sharing in this way, it's super important. It's super important
Speaker 1: because the price is really high. And then on that point,
Speaker 1: I suppose, of course the people that I'd meet on
Speaker 1: a days day basis, men and women who are experience
Speaker 1: in homelessness, Like it's one way that I see that
Speaker 1: we can help people, or that it's just radically just
Speaker 1: could be so much different than it is right now,
Speaker 1: because what help looks like for somebody at the moment
Speaker 1: I understand is like getting them inside, getting them shelter,
Speaker 1: getting people fed, getting those basic needs map. But it
Speaker 1: is incredible to me sometimes thinking about like this side
Speaker 1: of the conversation, this reconnection to like who you are,
Speaker 1: when I see that actually those things link up. Someone
Speaker 1: give them a couple of years and they'll be in
Speaker 1: a way better place, you know.
Speaker 2: So it's really important that politically.
Speaker 1: We had this kind of conversations too, Like it's becoming
Speaker 1: so much more popular as conversation of our collective mental
Speaker 1: health and how it's all intertwined. But like, I know
Speaker 1: that when you reconnect someone to who they are, like
Speaker 1: there's so much better chance for them to successfully like
Speaker 1: get back on their feet quote unquote. Then you might
Speaker 1: just give someone like a house and some food in
Speaker 1: the fridge, and they're still stuck inside like with all
Speaker 1: the same problems as they had before. So I just
Speaker 1: think like this part of the conversation is something like
Speaker 1: we're getting to now, and I have a lot of
Speaker 1: optimism to to sort of with the work that I do,
Speaker 1: continue it and try and like sort of create that
Speaker 1: change with the things we're talking about from above as
Speaker 1: well as from ground level.
Speaker 3: I think something that I really liked reading the book
Speaker 3: was that you do keep in contact with a lot
Speaker 3: of the people who you meet. You don't just meet
Speaker 3: them once, take a photo and kind of, you know,
Speaker 3: lose tight. Do you actually follow them through often to
Speaker 3: a really wonderful progression in their journey since the last
Speaker 3: time you saw them. Are there any sort of moments
Speaker 3: that just pull your heart strings every time that you
Speaker 3: think about that, you know, the people who have stuck
Speaker 3: out or the moments that have stuck out in the
Speaker 3: last kind of five years.
Speaker 1: Well, in the front of the book, I dedicated to
Speaker 1: someone who's now in Paris and his named Sedrik.
Speaker 2: And getting the book back.
Speaker 1: I think I thought of him straight away because he's
Speaker 1: somebody I used to go back and see back and
Speaker 1: forth on the streets, and he was always surprised when
Speaker 1: I turn back up to see him again, because his
Speaker 1: mind was blown that I'd get a train to Paris
Speaker 1: across from London and I had friends there as well,
Speaker 1: but I'd come and see him and it was like
Speaker 1: it was beautiful because whenever we spent time together, it
Speaker 1: reminded me of how important it is to be aware
Speaker 1: that you could make a new best friend at any
Speaker 1: point in your life. And that's someone He taught me
Speaker 1: a lot, because even though I'd started this journey, and
Speaker 1: even though I'd been going out and meeting people, I
Speaker 1: think I was probably still looking at those early interactions
Speaker 1: as like helper and someone who needs to be helped.
Speaker 1: He was the first person I really met who just
Speaker 1: like we became buds, like real good friends, and we
Speaker 1: met on like lots of levels and yeah, he's someone
Speaker 1: unfortunately who is not with us anymore. He passed away,
Speaker 1: and I dedicated the book to him because it was
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, whatever your belief system and whatever
Speaker 1: you want, I just know I sort of can hear
Speaker 1: his chuckle and his kind of like I can imagine
Speaker 1: the conversation would have if I brought him this book
Speaker 1: and showed him.
Speaker 2: That he's in it, and I know he'd be really happy.
Speaker 1: So, you know, that's the kind of interaction that like,
Speaker 1: he always reminds me that with every new person I meet,
Speaker 1: it could be someone who's your best friend and who
Speaker 1: you're really going to get on with. It's not about
Speaker 1: helping quote unquote just helping people.
Speaker 2: It's about like connecting. It's always been about connection for
Speaker 2: me since him.
Speaker 3: I cried when I read that he passed away.
Speaker 4: I was so devastated.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it was really tough for some people, I see.
Speaker 1: And it's important to include that in there, because it's
Speaker 1: estimate that about nine hundred and sixty people died on
Speaker 1: the streets last year in the UK in twenty twenty,
Speaker 1: and actually I think the three to five percent of
Speaker 1: that only a county was coronavirus related. The elephant in
Speaker 1: the room that I'd like to address here, which I
Speaker 1: think is substance misused and drugs and alcohol that surrounds
Speaker 1: zonnessness like it is I know, from the outside, like
Speaker 1: really difficult to understand, and some of these behaviors I know,
Speaker 1: like being really honest, I know it can look pretty
Speaker 1: ugly from the outside, and I I would like to
Speaker 1: say that, like, whatever your stance on all of this stuff,
Speaker 1: like the people that I see, to address that quickly,
Speaker 1: Like it's not recreational drug use.
Speaker 2: People aren't having a good time, people.
Speaker 1: Aren't aren't using to go out and party. It's always
Speaker 1: like masking or to cope with something.
Speaker 2: Either.
Speaker 1: The surroundings are being there a lot of the time,
Speaker 1: until you're out on the street and you're trying to
Speaker 1: get to sleep onto some cold railway bridge at at
Speaker 1: whatever time in the morning and someone passes you something.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'd like to also think, you know, what
Speaker 1: would you do in that situation. But the point I
Speaker 1: want to make is, whatever people's stance on, say homelessness
Speaker 1: as a whole, I think we can all agree that
Speaker 1: it shouldn't be normal to see this many people on
Speaker 1: the street, and to a point earlier, like you know,
Speaker 1: to live in a city where people are dying on
Speaker 1: the street each year, people who are so far removed
Speaker 1: from this issue and maybe live with such effluence. Surely,
Speaker 1: even in that situation, if you bring some friends to
Speaker 1: a city to show them around Sydney or London or
Speaker 1: wherever you live, you'd probably prefer like for their to
Speaker 1: not be visibly people directly suffering in front of you.
Speaker 1: So I just think any way you approach this, I
Speaker 1: think we can all agree that we don't feel like
Speaker 1: it's okay to or it shouldn't be normal to see
Speaker 1: this stuff and to leave so many people sometimes not
Speaker 1: making it through the winter. So I just I like
Speaker 1: to talk about this stuff and usually put positive like
Speaker 1: which is I know it's difficult and with someone like
Speaker 1: Sedriek for me in the book, it's really hard to
Speaker 1: process someone like.
Speaker 2: That who could be with us now.
Speaker 1: But it spurs me on to keep doing what I'm
Speaker 1: doing and realize that, like, there's so much more we
Speaker 1: can do, but it will take more. I think more
Speaker 1: action on a street level, and I think through kindness
Speaker 1: and through positivity and through telling stories in this human way.
Speaker 1: I never point the finger in the work that I'm doing.
Speaker 1: This isn't about saying we should feel guilty and do more.
Speaker 1: It's about finding the things you really love to do
Speaker 1: and trying to maybe provide that for people you know
Speaker 1: in your surroundings, in your community where you live. And honestly,
Speaker 1: for me, this isn't random acts of kindness. Like I
Speaker 1: don't believe it's random to be kind to someone. I
Speaker 1: believe it's like part of who we are. And I
Speaker 1: think that's also an awesome concept to go out and
Speaker 1: be the whatever kindness looks like to you. But for me,
Speaker 1: do something nothings like these are four words that represent
Speaker 1: this to me. But this is just what we all
Speaker 1: do on a day to day basis. It's just providing
Speaker 1: it a little bit more for people who need it.
Speaker 4: Oh, that's so beautiful.
Speaker 3: I love that idea that it's not random, it should
Speaker 3: just be kindness in all directions.
Speaker 1: Or yeah, I mean come on, yeah, Like I need
Speaker 1: that too as well. Like honestly, like when I'm having
Speaker 1: a bad day, I'm sure you can relate to this, right.
Speaker 1: You must have had that moment before where you're just
Speaker 1: like in your own head, in your own bubble, You're
Speaker 1: in the tunnel vision, like I'm annoyed about something and
Speaker 1: I'm like sort of scraping through this day and someone
Speaker 1: does something for you and it's not maybe as obvious
Speaker 1: as someone like buying a coffee in the queue in
Speaker 1: front of you and it being like kind of this,
Speaker 1: it's more just holding the door open smile, letting you
Speaker 1: someone on the bus like just like giving you their
Speaker 1: eyes and like smiling and like nod in their head
Speaker 1: something like that. It just wakes you up from your
Speaker 1: own kind of like bullshit. Sometimes think it's just it's
Speaker 1: just like it's healthy, like we need that, all of us.
Speaker 3: One of my best circuit breakers when I'm just having
Speaker 3: a shit time and usually for no reason I'm just
Speaker 3: in my own head about something, is I try and
Speaker 3: give someone a compliment, like find something that I like
Speaker 3: about what their lipstick is or whatever. And you cannot
Speaker 3: stay in a bad mood.
Speaker 4: When you give.
Speaker 3: Someone an unsolicited compliment and watch the change in their demeanor,
Speaker 3: it's actually the best possible thing you could do. It's
Speaker 3: almost selfish, like I do it for myself to get
Speaker 3: out of a bad mood. It takes so little to
Speaker 3: make someone's day, and I think, you know, even if
Speaker 3: you can't necessarily sit down and give them a haircut,
Speaker 3: you can make someone's day with a smile or a conversation.
Speaker 3: What are your big visions for what's next for this movement,
Speaker 3: but more importantly for people listening who want to get
Speaker 3: on board or to help support you in some way.
Speaker 3: Or bring to do something for nothing movement, you know
Speaker 3: to the Australia Insures again, what are some of the
Speaker 3: ways we can support you?
Speaker 1: You know, it is a social movement in the sense
Speaker 1: that like this isn't a charity or not for profit,
Speaker 1: Like this isn't about coming to me to like then
Speaker 1: work at you know, like volunteer in your community. There's
Speaker 1: no like what I mean is there's no structure in
Speaker 1: some ways. I mean, based on this podcast and talking
Speaker 1: about my life, maybe that makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 1: But it's an open space for It's an open space
Speaker 1: for people to be able to use this however you want.
Speaker 1: The hashtag exists to highlight people in your community who
Speaker 1: are doing something cool and talking about it to inspire others.
Speaker 1: It might be yourself. It might be the skills that
Speaker 1: you have, like tangible skills of course, like I know
Speaker 1: for me, Wow, a heck, isn't that a great way?
Speaker 2: Isn't it lucky? Like You've got this really tangible skill?
Speaker 1: But no, it's everything's a vehicle for this connection, this
Speaker 1: conversation that I've spoken about. I mean, yeah, okay, we've
Speaker 1: had yoga teachers, volunteer and rehabilitation centers, young people, students
Speaker 1: going to have lunch with senior citizens who don't have
Speaker 1: any family to come in and have lunch with them,
Speaker 1: all that kind of thing. But the thing is it's
Speaker 1: very important to like, you know, all these things. Whatever
Speaker 1: it is, Like, I could talk about an organization in
Speaker 1: Sydney Pass It On Clothing. My friend Chris wag who
Speaker 1: set up it's amazing. Basically it's transpired from him and
Speaker 1: his girlfriend looking at their wardrobe of clothes that they
Speaker 1: didn't wear anymore, and it's like to go and drop
Speaker 1: off clothes to like up shop and like be able
Speaker 1: to like put it outside. But that's great, but it's
Speaker 1: not all that personal. So he decided to set up
Speaker 1: these rails around Sydney where it started as one Thursday
Speaker 1: night and four years later they've become this organization where
Speaker 1: they have haircuts, now they provide food. They always set
Speaker 1: up in some mine's place in the middle of Sydney
Speaker 1: and people.
Speaker 2: Know that they're week in, week out.
Speaker 1: They've got so many people involved because now they know
Speaker 1: after having that conversation and not only giving people clothes,
Speaker 1: but showing them the mirror and making sure they're really
Speaker 1: fixed up and looking good with like decent clothes that
Speaker 1: get they get these donations from really really nice places,
Speaker 1: and it's like the conversations they have now they know
Speaker 1: how to help people more. They've got to know people.
Speaker 1: They're more invested in their community than they were before.
Speaker 1: And rather than be on the outside looking in, it's
Speaker 1: just not finding ways where you go, Like you can
Speaker 1: become active in your community. You can become someone who
Speaker 1: is aware of people. And honestly, the change, the personal
Speaker 1: change that comes with that, as you said, kind of
Speaker 1: is selfish in aware and it's cool to recognize that,
Speaker 1: and it's got bad connotation, but it's not. It's like
Speaker 1: you could say to most people, like fast forward a
Speaker 1: few years time and you could know like more people
Speaker 1: in these busy cities we live in, like more people
Speaker 1: around you and what they need, and they know what
Speaker 1: you need. It's just taking it back a bit to
Speaker 1: like how we used to live before, we used to
Speaker 1: live in smaller communities. Well, we did all have a wrong,
Speaker 1: we did all know about each other's problems. So you know,
Speaker 1: we first forwarded to like these places where we've got
Speaker 1: so much kind of like access to everything, and more
Speaker 1: than anything, we're so distracted, and I think we need
Speaker 1: to just reel it in and realize that we can
Speaker 1: all become more part of each other's lives. And I
Speaker 1: think finding your version of that can look like many things.
Speaker 1: I often say to people, write down three things you
Speaker 1: really love and that you enjoy, and then next to that,
Speaker 1: write down parallel, like three areas that you like to
Speaker 1: change in this world, maybe directing your community, and try
Speaker 1: and join the dots and keep looking at them until
Speaker 1: you do.
Speaker 4: Oh, that's so beautiful.
Speaker 3: I kind of describe finding your yay as that as well,
Speaker 3: like writing down the things that give you that feeling
Speaker 3: that you had when you were a little kid where
Speaker 3: you just couldn't help but say the word ya because
Speaker 3: it makes you so excited. And we are really distracted.
Speaker 3: And I think we do also think that looking after ourselves,
Speaker 3: particularly when you're in a job like yours, which is
Speaker 3: very giving and altruistic, that then material things like you know,
Speaker 3: massage or a bath or rest seem very vacuous. And
Speaker 3: I can imagine you would feel guilty watching Netflix rather
Speaker 3: than going out and transforming someone's life, because you do
Speaker 3: have the opportunity to do the latter, So why would
Speaker 3: you kind of waste time doing the former. But that's
Speaker 3: why this last section is important and maybe my f
Speaker 3: it's called playta and it's the things that we all
Speaker 3: do that aren't related to our job and completely separate
Speaker 3: from our vocation, but that make you forget what time
Speaker 3: it is that are purely for your joy, because I
Speaker 3: don't think you could fill up anyone else's cup if
Speaker 3: you aren't, you know, filling up your own in some way.
Speaker 3: So you mentioned music is one of them. Are there
Speaker 3: any other things that you do just to find joy
Speaker 3: in between?
Speaker 1: Yeah, honestly, And I love the concept and the reason why,
Speaker 1: you know, obviously in that new podcast, it's like it's
Speaker 1: so important to remember that curiosity and that feeling that
Speaker 1: gave you that as a kid, and like, I think
Speaker 1: without that just on that point, like I've had to learn,
Speaker 1: especially more so the last couple of years, I've got
Speaker 1: so much better at that.
Speaker 2: I can't go out and be available to people unless I.
Speaker 1: Have that moment you're talking about, which is forgetting the
Speaker 1: concept of time and being so kind of like, yeah,
Speaker 1: just filling up your cup.
Speaker 2: In that way.
Speaker 1: And for me it is music and it is like
Speaker 1: guitar definitely also football as well is a really important
Speaker 1: one for me, Like I've gone through stages. It's because
Speaker 1: it's the best escapism. I have a really good relationship
Speaker 1: with I support a couple of teams here and it's
Speaker 1: like watching football like getting together with people and doing
Speaker 1: that because.
Speaker 2: I used to play football when I was younger.
Speaker 1: It reminds me of what you're talking about, which is
Speaker 1: that summers hot, because it was actually.
Speaker 2: Sometimes it is hurt in the UK this summer.
Speaker 1: I remember, like maybe it's nostalgia, but like hot summers
Speaker 1: are like going out all day and playing football with
Speaker 1: my mates and coming back with like grasslands and my
Speaker 1: trousers and like you just let yourself go. And for me,
Speaker 1: obviously it's different watching it, but it's like it's something
Speaker 1: about that's pure escapism, which is beautiful too. But honestly,
Speaker 1: music always is the main one. Music and and and
Speaker 1: and that is something that you know, whether I'm plugged
Speaker 1: in with an electric guitar with friends it's or whether
Speaker 1: I'm just at home with an acoustic it's like it's
Speaker 1: the one thing where I've got calm app and I
Speaker 1: meditate and I do what I can each day to
Speaker 1: be able to like center myself when I can.
Speaker 2: A lot of the times I forget.
Speaker 1: I don't to pretend I'm like here, like got it down,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. But yeah, but it's like
Speaker 1: I'm trying to do those things as best i can
Speaker 1: each day, that morning ritual, but whatever it is in
Speaker 1: your week.
Speaker 2: For me, it's like you have.
Speaker 1: Music is like something where whether I'm listening to music
Speaker 1: or whether I'm playing, it's like I forget it or
Speaker 1: I just like I'm in that space. And honestly, though
Speaker 1: what it hasn't always been easy. I've burnt out like
Speaker 1: I had. Your body will tell you things if you
Speaker 1: don't stop and do those those things for yourself. Like
Speaker 1: I've had moments where I've spent so long doing the
Speaker 1: doing bit of this and going out and thinking that
Speaker 1: I can't spend any time for me, like filling up
Speaker 1: that cup, and my body literally stopped me, like actually
Speaker 1: stop me, and well, like help will stop you if
Speaker 1: you don't spend time like recognizing that. And I've just
Speaker 1: tried to get better recognizing the signals. Now you've got
Speaker 1: to recognize the signals and realize that it seems counterproductive
Speaker 1: sometimes to stop and do whatever your absolutely nothing is
Speaker 1: or your escape isn't it is, But it's actually the
Speaker 1: complete opposite, stopping for guests and like the best kind
Speaker 1: of guests so you can get back on the road
Speaker 1: and do.
Speaker 4: Your thing totally.
Speaker 3: I think even if your body didn't stop you, like
Speaker 3: when I'm not here, even if you love your job,
Speaker 3: you're not here to just work and die like that
Speaker 3: would be just such a gross waste of this beautiful
Speaker 3: life and leisure and play has always been part of
Speaker 3: what life is all about. But also on the wellness front,
Speaker 3: if you don't make time for wellness, the quote that
Speaker 3: I love here is if you don't make time for wellness,
Speaker 3: your body will force you to make time for illness.
Speaker 3: And that's one that I'm always like, oh my gosh, I.
Speaker 1: Know, right, I know, and you know hopefully from that
Speaker 1: like you're right, I immediately get the pang of like, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's okay to almost be like it is an urgent
Speaker 1: concept because don't let that be. I know, there's some
Speaker 1: things we can't control in our life, but like, do
Speaker 1: the best you can to, like to work out your
Speaker 1: life before you get there, like we do. We do
Speaker 1: have more time and week I know we're up against it,
Speaker 1: Like I know, like it's not always easy to like
Speaker 1: to feel like you have those moments. But I think
Speaker 1: when you stop, and from my own experience, when I've
Speaker 1: ground to a hold and then I have to take
Speaker 1: a week, you realize that everything works out like eventually,
Speaker 1: like I try and work a lot, and I really
Speaker 1: enjoy the work I do, But sometimes don't you feel
Speaker 1: now we're some in contact with every bleap of our phone.
Speaker 1: We weren't supposed to always be this available, Like, we
Speaker 1: weren't supposed to always have had like not a moment
Speaker 1: to ourselves to like feel like we're not getting back
Speaker 1: to someone. So it's like these things are really new concepts. Honestly,
Speaker 1: when you get to nature and you put your phone
Speaker 1: down for a bit or whatever version it is of you,
Speaker 1: it's just like I just know that I'm immediately hit
Speaker 1: with these troops where I'm just like, of course, no
Speaker 1: wonder you feel stressed. I wonder if you feel tired.
Speaker 1: You know, you just you just needed a day off,
Speaker 1: you needed a few days off.
Speaker 3: I literally just came back last week from a week
Speaker 3: in the Northern Territory with some indigenous elders who they
Speaker 3: don't have a concept or a word for time in
Speaker 3: Aboriginal culture, because you're just supposed to wake up at
Speaker 3: sunrise and go to bit at sunset. And this concept
Speaker 3: of scheduling is something they really try to make us surrender.
Speaker 3: And so we didn't have charges, so our phones died
Speaker 3: on the first day anyway, and we didn't need to
Speaker 3: know what time it was, because the sun will kind
Speaker 3: of tell you if it's morning or afternoon, and they
Speaker 3: told us where we needed to be by sunset. And
Speaker 3: I've actually had a really really hard time coming back
Speaker 3: to this, you know, kind of forced structure that we've
Speaker 3: imposed on ourselves. Of course, you need some in the life,
Speaker 3: you know, to keep up with the life that we have,
Speaker 3: but you realize time is really a construct, and so
Speaker 3: is deadlines, and so is urgency unless you're a heart
Speaker 3: surgeon or a paramedic, which neither of us are, so
Speaker 3: you know, things can wait.
Speaker 2: Do you feel on that first day?
Speaker 1: First of all, there was that anxious panic of phones
Speaker 1: ran out and what am I going to do?
Speaker 2: And then how long did it take you to go?
Speaker 3: Interestingly, it usually takes me a couple of days, but
Speaker 3: I think I was so overloaded and ready by the
Speaker 3: time it was inevitable, Like by the time we lost signal,
Speaker 3: I didn't even bother trying anymore. I just turned it off,
Speaker 3: I turned it onto airplane mode, and I just didn't
Speaker 3: look at it five days and it was such a luxury.
Speaker 3: But it makes me realize, Oh, it was amazing, But
Speaker 3: now I'm like, I don't want to be human in
Speaker 3: real life society.
Speaker 1: It's cool though, because you know you'll start doing things,
Speaker 1: you know you'll get back to it, but keep it.
Speaker 1: And I'm so glad that you have a platform to
Speaker 1: be able to talk about and spread that message because like, honestly,
Speaker 1: it's just as real and just as much as a
Speaker 1: reality as being in this.
Speaker 2: Scheduled world, you know.
Speaker 1: And I think that I know I feel the same
Speaker 1: as you, which is like I've had a few days
Speaker 1: off recently where I was just phone less, and I
Speaker 1: can think back to a time a couple of years
Speaker 1: ago when I was five days on a hike without
Speaker 1: a phone, and honestly, I literally turned into a kid again.
Speaker 1: I was the kind of renoticing things because when you're
Speaker 1: left with nothing to look at and nothing to pick
Speaker 1: up and.
Speaker 2: Stare at these screens, it's like you just do that
Speaker 2: child does come out, it's still there.
Speaker 1: And what's really beautiful about that is like we're all
Speaker 1: searching for that, We're all like constantly search into like
Speaker 1: that that freedom and that beauty, and it's in us,
Speaker 1: it's within us. It's just whatever you can do to
Speaker 1: recognize it. In fact, you know that. That is the
Speaker 1: one thing I would say, it's everyone should allow at
Speaker 1: least a few phone off days of the year, like
Speaker 1: maybe they're together in a few days straight, which is beautiful.
Speaker 1: But that's one thing that I'm sure there's a hell
Speaker 1: of a lot of info about that, but how incredibly
Speaker 1: powerful that is for your well being and bringing those
Speaker 1: truths back with you for the rest of the year
Speaker 1: so liberating.
Speaker 3: Now I'm like, I want to I just want to
Speaker 3: be a bush woman.
Speaker 2: Like.
Speaker 1: You've got a very you've got a very good energy,
Speaker 1: You're very good. You brought some of it back.
Speaker 2: I appreciate you.
Speaker 4: Well.
Speaker 3: Just to finish our second last question, three interesting things
Speaker 3: about you that don't normally come up in conversation, because
Speaker 3: I imagine you do get asked a lot of similar
Speaker 3: kinds of questions about the fascinating work that you do,
Speaker 3: but what are just some random things like favorite biscuit
Speaker 3: or you know, weird habits or party tricks.
Speaker 1: Okay, oh yeah, all right, all right, well okay, so
Speaker 1: I mean no, I've said biscuit. It's like very much
Speaker 1: in my head of like remove the one of the
Speaker 1: the biscuit one because I don't have that.
Speaker 3: But I think you're British you have to have a
Speaker 3: favorite biscuit.
Speaker 1: Honestly, maybe that's one of my facts I'm going to
Speaker 1: start off with, Like, here's one around the thing I
Speaker 1: don't like biscuits. Cup of tea and biscuits, okay, is
Speaker 1: not a British thing that always goes with tea and biscuits.
Speaker 1: The cup of tea alone is amazing, don't be you
Speaker 1: have to be dipping a biscuit in that. I don't
Speaker 1: like the way that when you dip a biscuit in
Speaker 1: you end up with the crumbs of the biscuit in.
Speaker 2: Yeah. No, like so no sugar and tea, So why
Speaker 2: would I be?
Speaker 1: Why would it be? I wouldn't be differing in a biscuit.
Speaker 1: So that's one interesting fact.
Speaker 4: What type of tea though.
Speaker 1: Oh tea is the Yorkshire tea ulture tea bag so
Speaker 1: yorksire tea bag, a little bit.
Speaker 4: Of oat milk, okay, oh oat.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't do cow juice.
Speaker 1: A little bit of oat milk, but no, that's that's
Speaker 1: kind of like. But I'm not gonna lie obviously and
Speaker 1: say like I'm all over the vegan cake. Some someone
Speaker 1: told me becoming vegan was like this way of like,
Speaker 1: I've pretty much been hungry since becoming vegan a couple
Speaker 1: of years ago, and I haven't. Honestly, I said to
Speaker 1: my joke with my girlfriend, I'm like, I've been hungry
Speaker 1: ever since. But it's but it's amazing and I'm happy.
Speaker 1: But one thing no one tells you is that you
Speaker 1: can still go really mental and junk food, Like you
Speaker 1: can still go hardcore.
Speaker 2: All the cakes are still available, all the snacks still available.
Speaker 1: It's almost even worse. Anyway, I digress. But the one
Speaker 1: fun fact is talking to you in Australia. I once
Speaker 1: got to Australia for ten pounds shut up. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: I basically I Q. It was the first time I
Speaker 1: came over when I was twenty one and I heard
Speaker 1: someone over talking like in a conversation and the queue
Speaker 1: behind me about this sale that this travel agent's had
Speaker 1: on where they were like basically putting people on a
Speaker 1: plane to Australia for ten quick. The first thirty people
Speaker 1: who like went to travel agents in Bristol.
Speaker 2: So I went to camp.
Speaker 1: From that moment I left, I went and camped outside
Speaker 1: of this place, and I I was one of the
Speaker 1: first like twelve people in Q so I managed to
Speaker 1: get this like ten pound ticket to Australia.
Speaker 2: So that was pretty cool.
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was amazing. And it's when I came out
Speaker 2: first to one.
Speaker 1: I was there for like a year or whatever, and
Speaker 1: I worked around So maybe that's another good fun fact.
Speaker 1: I used to live in Australia in this town which
Speaker 1: I has to have beautiful memories of which is people
Speaker 1: always go oh you lived there and it's in Lismore
Speaker 1: in New South Wales.
Speaker 5: Sure yeah, yeah, yeah, everyone does that reaction and goes ah,
Speaker 5: I think it's the loveliest, most beautiful, awesome town and
Speaker 5: Nearbyn Bay and all like the hip stuff.
Speaker 1: Fine, that's great, but like that area of Northern Rivers
Speaker 1: is like so unbelievably beautiful. The little towns and the
Speaker 1: little markets of a weekend I have like such fond
Speaker 1: memories of living in Australia.
Speaker 2: I don't know, another fun fact.
Speaker 4: Maybe No, that were great.
Speaker 3: That was three amazing, right, Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4: They were great. I lived in Lismo for a year.
Speaker 1: I lived, yeah, for basically whole year because a random
Speaker 1: it took me there because like work. I knew my
Speaker 1: girlfriend at the time, her sister lived nearby and lived
Speaker 1: in the interland between like Barron Bay and Lismore, and
Speaker 1: it was.
Speaker 2: Just like it was the place where I ended up working.
Speaker 1: I worked in a little cafe there and I was
Speaker 1: just like I honestly I was.
Speaker 2: It was such a beautiful time.
Speaker 1: I was very at one with like working and doing
Speaker 1: kind of like what I was doing there. But when
Speaker 1: I say to people there always just like find it
Speaker 1: funny because it's just like quite a small town. It's
Speaker 1: very sleepy, but like had this cafe and this record
Speaker 1: shop and this beautiful arts center, and yeah, I'd like
Speaker 1: to go back there.
Speaker 3: It's kind of like being like, oh, I came and
Speaker 3: went to Bluffborough or something like.
Speaker 4: It's random.
Speaker 2: I know, I know, but don't get me wrong. I did.
Speaker 1: Since since then, I've gone back and I've done Sydney
Speaker 1: and Melbourne, I've done, like being in most cities and
Speaker 1: lots of amazing beautiful Like obviously Australia is such an
Speaker 1: incredible place, so I've done a lot of it now,
Speaker 1: but like I just still think like, yeah, that's my
Speaker 1: place member for moved back, that's where that's well come.
Speaker 3: And very last question, what's your favorite quote?
Speaker 2: Okay, my favorite quote is Joe Stroma from The Clash, and.
Speaker 1: It's the punk rock means amazing manners to your fellow
Speaker 1: human beings. And the reason why that quote is so
Speaker 1: important is that for me as a punk growing up
Speaker 1: and that being my ethoss, it was the spiky hair
Speaker 1: and the Mohicans and the studs and everything that's the
Speaker 1: image of punk and the zips, all everything you see
Speaker 1: from the outside. Once the door opens and you're letting
Speaker 1: it just means being together and being cool to the
Speaker 1: people around you. And there's so many movements in history
Speaker 1: that have created that. But like, without that side of it,
Speaker 1: without people putting their arm around me, like I wouldn't
Speaker 1: be doing what I'm doing today.
Speaker 4: I love that.
Speaker 3: I think you are such a wonderful advocate for never
Speaker 3: judging anything from just what it looks like on the
Speaker 3: outside and making the effort to sort of peel back
Speaker 3: the layers and see what's underneath.
Speaker 2: Thank you, sir, I really appreciate you.
Speaker 1: It's been so nice to chat to you today, honestly,
Speaker 1: and like I said, like we'll have to do this
Speaker 1: again in the future, maybe in person.
Speaker 4: Yeah, thank you so much.
Speaker 3: You've just been absolutely wonderful and everyone should absolutely get
Speaker 3: a copy of Do Something for Nothing. It is out
Speaker 3: very soon and I'll pop a link in the show
Speaker 3: notes so you can.
Speaker 4: All grab a copy.
Speaker 2: Thanks so much.
Speaker 3: Goodness me, this one inspired me and reminded me that
Speaker 3: despite the challenges and suffering that exist in the world,
Speaker 3: there is so much love and kindness out there too.
Speaker 3: Please help the do Something for Nothing movement spread as
Speaker 3: far and wide as possible by sharing this episode and
Speaker 3: tagging at Joshua Coombs along with any takeaways or thoughts
Speaker 3: that you've had. Hugh mentioned last week that he was
Speaker 3: blown away by all of your messages and reflections. There
Speaker 3: were hundreds of them, so please keep it up. It
Speaker 3: means so much to our guests and to me. I'll
Speaker 3: pop the link to Joshua's new book in the show
Speaker 3: notes and highly recommend that you grab a copy for
Speaker 3: an uplifting read. Hope you're having an amazing week. To
Speaker 3: my dear Victorians, Hope you are surviving the week and
Speaker 3: are seizing your yeay