1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,040 Speaker 1: I often say to people, write down three things you 2 00:00:02,040 --> 00:00:04,480 Speaker 1: really love and that you enjoy, and then through areas 3 00:00:04,519 --> 00:00:06,480 Speaker 1: that you'd like to change in this world, maybe directing 4 00:00:06,559 --> 00:00:08,560 Speaker 1: your community, and try and join the dots and keep 5 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:09,160 Speaker 1: looking at them. 6 00:00:09,160 --> 00:00:09,600 Speaker 2: Until you do. 7 00:00:09,800 --> 00:00:13,159 Speaker 1: Honestly, for me, this isn't random acts of kindness, Like 8 00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:15,840 Speaker 1: I don't believe it's random to be kind to someone. 9 00:00:15,960 --> 00:00:18,319 Speaker 1: I believe it's like part of who we are. 10 00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:22,400 Speaker 3: Welcome to the Seies the Yay Podcast. Busy and happy 11 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:25,479 Speaker 3: are not the same thing. We too rarely question what 12 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:28,280 Speaker 3: makes the heart seeing. We work, then we rest, but 13 00:00:28,520 --> 00:00:31,600 Speaker 3: rarely we play and often don't realize there's more than 14 00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:34,400 Speaker 3: one way. So this is a platform to hear and 15 00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:37,919 Speaker 3: explore the stories of those who found lives they adore, 16 00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:40,720 Speaker 3: the good, bad and ugly. The best and worst day 17 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:45,400 Speaker 3: will bear all the facets of seizing your yay. I'm 18 00:00:45,479 --> 00:00:49,440 Speaker 3: Sarah Davidson or a spoonful of Sarah, a lawyer turned entrepreneur 19 00:00:49,520 --> 00:00:51,920 Speaker 3: who swapped the suits and heels to co found matcha 20 00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:55,000 Speaker 3: Maiden and matcha Milk Bark Sez the Ya is a 21 00:00:55,040 --> 00:00:57,880 Speaker 3: series of conversations on finding a life you love and 22 00:00:57,920 --> 00:01:01,720 Speaker 3: exploring the self doubt challenge, which joy and fulfillment along 23 00:01:01,760 --> 00:01:07,600 Speaker 3: the way. It's so funny how the universe often throws 24 00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:10,080 Speaker 3: you a quote or a message just when you need 25 00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:12,200 Speaker 3: it most. I hear this so often with Quote of 26 00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:15,280 Speaker 3: the Day and experience it all the time myself, and 27 00:01:15,319 --> 00:01:18,880 Speaker 3: the same seems to happen with our wonderful guests. Victoria 28 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:22,880 Speaker 3: just extended its snap lockdown by another week today, so 29 00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:25,720 Speaker 3: I was needing another little pep up. And while Hugh 30 00:01:25,760 --> 00:01:29,000 Speaker 3: Van kyleen Berg last week is a very hard act 31 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:32,200 Speaker 3: to follow, I think you'll find our guest today just 32 00:01:32,319 --> 00:01:37,039 Speaker 3: as uplifting, inspiring and a truly special soul. You may 33 00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:39,880 Speaker 3: have heard me speak about Joshua Coombs on Yighborhood Watch 34 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:42,880 Speaker 3: a few days ago, and I'm so thrilled to say, 35 00:01:42,959 --> 00:01:46,120 Speaker 3: not only has his book Do Something for Nothing launched 36 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:50,080 Speaker 3: in Australia just this week, he's also joined us on 37 00:01:50,160 --> 00:01:53,200 Speaker 3: the show for today's episode. If you missed my intro 38 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:56,920 Speaker 3: on Monday. Joshua is a British hairdresser who took his 39 00:01:57,040 --> 00:02:00,840 Speaker 3: skill onto the streets to give free haircuts to the homeless, 40 00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:05,080 Speaker 3: and together with his passion and skill for storytelling, has 41 00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:10,080 Speaker 3: created a global movement of kindness, connection, and humanity. His 42 00:02:10,240 --> 00:02:13,320 Speaker 3: incredible book shares stories as well as before and after 43 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:16,480 Speaker 3: images of the people he's met from all over the world, 44 00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:21,079 Speaker 3: including right here in Melbourne, showing the confidence, hope, and 45 00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:24,679 Speaker 3: joy he brings them from just taking a moment to connect. 46 00:02:25,320 --> 00:02:29,120 Speaker 3: For people who often feel invisible and misunderstood by society, 47 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:32,760 Speaker 3: Joshua is shining such an important light on homelessness and 48 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:35,799 Speaker 3: helping break down the stigma that it's still surrounded by. 49 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:39,240 Speaker 3: He's also encouraging us all to do something for nothing. 50 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:42,520 Speaker 3: For him, it's by giving out free haircuts, but he 51 00:02:42,639 --> 00:02:45,040 Speaker 3: insists that we all have a skill or talent that 52 00:02:45,080 --> 00:02:48,480 Speaker 3: we can share for free with others. I found him 53 00:02:48,680 --> 00:02:52,720 Speaker 3: so fascinating and his stories even more captivating. You'll notice 54 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:55,520 Speaker 3: in this one the audio changes about halfway through when 55 00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:58,799 Speaker 3: his airpords died with a bit of clicking just before 56 00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:01,960 Speaker 3: that happens, so please excuse the glitches. But we still 57 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:05,120 Speaker 3: managed to have a pretty incredible conversation across the globe, 58 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:06,840 Speaker 3: so I'm still pretty chuffed with that. 59 00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:08,280 Speaker 4: Hope you guys. 60 00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:10,760 Speaker 3: Enjoy Joshua, welcome to the show. 61 00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:12,959 Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me, Sarah. I appreciate it. 62 00:03:13,080 --> 00:03:15,760 Speaker 3: Oh, thank you so much for your time. I mentioned 63 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:18,000 Speaker 3: just before we started recording, I'm quite in awe of you. 64 00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:21,080 Speaker 3: It's very hard to render me speechless, But reading your 65 00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:24,720 Speaker 3: book for the second time today, I was not only speechless. 66 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:25,200 Speaker 4: But almost in tears. 67 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:27,000 Speaker 3: What an extraordinary journey you've been on. 68 00:03:27,200 --> 00:03:30,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, it's been I guess about five or 69 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:32,080 Speaker 1: six years since I first started going out and cutting 70 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:34,160 Speaker 1: hair for people on the street, but the process of 71 00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:37,280 Speaker 1: the book itself has been a real journey. I wrapped 72 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:39,240 Speaker 1: it all up just before Lockdown and then had time 73 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:42,000 Speaker 1: to write it during lockdown. And I really hope that 74 00:03:42,040 --> 00:03:43,880 Speaker 1: the stories in there of people that I've met in 75 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:47,640 Speaker 1: different cities like resonate and do justice to the people 76 00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:49,320 Speaker 1: you know that you're reading about. 77 00:03:49,760 --> 00:03:52,200 Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, they absolutely do. You have brought so 78 00:03:52,280 --> 00:03:56,320 Speaker 3: many beautiful personalities to life and stories with the photos, 79 00:03:56,360 --> 00:03:57,840 Speaker 3: and I can't wait to get into all of it 80 00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:02,000 Speaker 3: and love that you've turned a very tough situation of 81 00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:04,800 Speaker 3: being in lockdown into a beautiful output for us all 82 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:08,000 Speaker 3: to enjoy around the world. But before we kick off, 83 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:11,640 Speaker 3: I start every interview by asking everyone what the most 84 00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:14,000 Speaker 3: down to earth thing is about them. To break through 85 00:04:14,480 --> 00:04:17,120 Speaker 3: the often glossy surface of our digital lives, and I mean, 86 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:19,400 Speaker 3: by nature of what you're doing, it's pretty down to 87 00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 3: earth endeavor. But for those of you who see you 88 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:24,359 Speaker 3: as an author and with a big platform, you know, 89 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:26,320 Speaker 3: what's something really normal about you that you do? 90 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:28,880 Speaker 1: Honestly, I think the best way to answer that is 91 00:04:29,080 --> 00:04:34,359 Speaker 1: I can't do a week without two things, which coffee 92 00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:36,880 Speaker 1: and my guitar as well. And I think the other 93 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:39,440 Speaker 1: things that even though coffee obviously shoots me up to 94 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:42,040 Speaker 1: an elevated kind of what can sometimes be too much 95 00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:45,960 Speaker 1: caffeine state, the guitar is what brings me, brings me down. 96 00:04:45,839 --> 00:04:48,240 Speaker 2: To a level that is my down to earth, That 97 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:48,680 Speaker 2: is my. 98 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:51,719 Speaker 1: Routing, that is kind of my Yeah, it's just like 99 00:04:51,760 --> 00:04:52,880 Speaker 1: my grounding when I need it. 100 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:54,080 Speaker 2: It's the way I meditate. 101 00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:56,360 Speaker 1: So I think that even though I'm doing a lot 102 00:04:56,400 --> 00:04:58,000 Speaker 1: most of the time, and I'm quite a doer, and 103 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:01,039 Speaker 1: I'm trying to broadcast messages you will catch for quite 104 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:03,000 Speaker 1: a few hours when to have them just still just 105 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:05,240 Speaker 1: playing guitar on own. So that's kind of like that's 106 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:07,040 Speaker 1: a bit where I switch off from everything. So that's 107 00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:09,440 Speaker 1: the way I like to say that I'm most down 108 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:09,760 Speaker 1: to worth. 109 00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:12,520 Speaker 3: Oh, I love that, And actually that leads really nicely 110 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:15,560 Speaker 3: into our first section, which is your way Ta, which 111 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:18,200 Speaker 3: really traces back through all the chapters before the one 112 00:05:18,640 --> 00:05:20,440 Speaker 3: of your life where most of us were walking on, 113 00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:22,920 Speaker 3: which is obviously now where you have a very clear 114 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:25,640 Speaker 3: purpose and direction and message to bring to people. But 115 00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:27,720 Speaker 3: I think it's easy to forget that most of us 116 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:29,800 Speaker 3: didn't start there. In fact, the first line of your 117 00:05:29,839 --> 00:05:31,520 Speaker 3: book is that you didn't know what you wanted to 118 00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:33,719 Speaker 3: be or where your skills were going to be, you know, 119 00:05:33,839 --> 00:05:37,640 Speaker 3: best directed. So talk to us about young Joshua, what 120 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:40,120 Speaker 3: you were like as a kid. I know, music and 121 00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:44,800 Speaker 3: your guitar was probably your first love and first vocation. Yeah, 122 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:45,960 Speaker 3: tell us about young you. 123 00:05:46,360 --> 00:05:47,880 Speaker 1: I think it was important to include in the book 124 00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:52,640 Speaker 1: that I left school feeling that it was it was 125 00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:55,080 Speaker 1: the end, not the beginning, And that was based out 126 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:58,040 Speaker 1: of feeling kind of the over here in the UK 127 00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:01,040 Speaker 1: our GCSEs like our school grades take when you were sixteen. 128 00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:04,320 Speaker 1: It wasn't just the theoretical and like the paper side 129 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:06,920 Speaker 1: of things that I was like staring at, like those 130 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:08,679 Speaker 1: in the face. It was more like just a feeling, 131 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:11,200 Speaker 1: like a sense of from the adults around me and 132 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:13,320 Speaker 1: teachers and stuff. I was just like, oh this, you 133 00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:15,559 Speaker 1: haven't done very well here, and like there's not much 134 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:17,839 Speaker 1: beyond this for you to kind of like go and pursue. 135 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:20,400 Speaker 1: And I grew up in the city Exeter in the 136 00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:22,920 Speaker 1: southwest of England, but really was quite a small town 137 00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:24,640 Speaker 1: when I grew up there, and it's grown a lot 138 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:26,839 Speaker 1: since then. And I had to find something. I had 139 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:28,799 Speaker 1: to find something to kind of like get my teeth 140 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:31,200 Speaker 1: into and like feel like I was part of something. 141 00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 1: And that was a guitar for me. 142 00:06:32,680 --> 00:06:33,080 Speaker 2: Early on. 143 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:36,560 Speaker 1: It was my mom and my grandmother chipping in some 144 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:39,599 Speaker 1: money to buy me this. It was sort of like 145 00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:42,159 Speaker 1: first grade guitar you get when you buy this little 146 00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:44,320 Speaker 1: mini amp and you get this like electric. It wasn't 147 00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:46,000 Speaker 1: a fender. It was called a square strat and it's 148 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:48,240 Speaker 1: like I still remember it was. It was like this 149 00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:50,640 Speaker 1: first start I kit of like playing and it was 150 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:52,599 Speaker 1: just like everything I needed at the time because I 151 00:06:52,680 --> 00:06:55,839 Speaker 1: just like could start playing a few chords and already 152 00:06:55,880 --> 00:06:57,560 Speaker 1: I felt like, oh, this is a way of expressing 153 00:06:57,560 --> 00:06:59,560 Speaker 1: myself that I didn't find in school. And to be 154 00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:02,040 Speaker 1: really on like to talk about school for a second, 155 00:07:02,120 --> 00:07:04,120 Speaker 1: like a lot of it was my problem and what 156 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:05,600 Speaker 1: I was trying to live up to, because the way 157 00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:09,120 Speaker 1: that I survived secondary school was by trying to be 158 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:11,600 Speaker 1: liked and like having some kind of bravado where I 159 00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:14,679 Speaker 1: was like, you know, liked enough by the hard kids 160 00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:16,760 Speaker 1: that I didn't get beaten up and sort of like 161 00:07:17,080 --> 00:07:17,840 Speaker 1: friends enough. 162 00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:19,800 Speaker 2: With those guys over there, so I could kind of 163 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:20,320 Speaker 2: get on with them. 164 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:21,360 Speaker 1: And it was sort of I learned how to be 165 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:23,320 Speaker 1: a chameleon, and I was very like I learned how 166 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:25,320 Speaker 1: to be funny, to be honest. Humor was like probably 167 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:28,200 Speaker 1: the best, the best course and the best medicine for 168 00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:30,280 Speaker 1: me to get through those four years because it meant 169 00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:33,600 Speaker 1: I survived socially. But in doing that, it was it 170 00:07:33,640 --> 00:07:35,640 Speaker 1: was looking back, it was very clear that that came 171 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:37,280 Speaker 1: at a cost, you know, like as far as like 172 00:07:37,320 --> 00:07:40,520 Speaker 1: getting kicked out of lessons and classes, and obviously it 173 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:43,240 Speaker 1: was you know, quite very underfunded school went to. It 174 00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:45,000 Speaker 1: wasn't all that good, Like it was a state school, 175 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:47,440 Speaker 1: so there was teachers who weren't getting paid enough. It 176 00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:49,680 Speaker 1: was somewhere that I hadn't had loved that building for 177 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:51,480 Speaker 1: a while, so I sort of look back now and 178 00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:55,480 Speaker 1: I think, yeah, many people did sort of finish school 179 00:07:55,520 --> 00:07:57,600 Speaker 1: with the same feeling as I did. But I feel 180 00:07:57,720 --> 00:08:01,040 Speaker 1: really really lucky in the sense of having not only 181 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:04,200 Speaker 1: that guitar, but it was finding a you know, friends 182 00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:07,240 Speaker 1: for you through music, which was a sort of punk 183 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:10,720 Speaker 1: music movement that happened, albeit sort of twenty five years 184 00:08:10,720 --> 00:08:12,120 Speaker 1: after it happened in the late. 185 00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:13,560 Speaker 4: Seventies, but it was a revival. 186 00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:16,400 Speaker 1: It was it was just something where like my auntie, 187 00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:19,400 Speaker 1: she gave me her record collection, like her old punk 188 00:08:19,520 --> 00:08:22,200 Speaker 1: vinyl collection, and she knew what she was doing. Now 189 00:08:22,480 --> 00:08:24,120 Speaker 1: I think back and I'm like, she knew exactly what 190 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:26,120 Speaker 1: she was doing, but it was my sixteenth birthday and 191 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:28,160 Speaker 1: she was like, here's everything. 192 00:08:27,760 --> 00:08:29,920 Speaker 2: You need to know that you haven't got right now. 193 00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:32,240 Speaker 1: And it was like all these bands who were just 194 00:08:32,840 --> 00:08:34,800 Speaker 1: there was these messages with punk where it was an 195 00:08:34,920 --> 00:08:37,400 Speaker 1: education too. It was like a political conversation, but also 196 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:41,360 Speaker 1: just this like this kind of like I don't know, 197 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:45,080 Speaker 1: this image also embodied just this ethos which was togetherness. 198 00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:46,720 Speaker 1: And I found people in the same town who were 199 00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:49,360 Speaker 1: into the same thing, and yeah, we sort of got 200 00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:50,840 Speaker 1: to know. I got to know people who I suppose 201 00:08:50,920 --> 00:08:52,560 Speaker 1: became a friend for life. 202 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:53,760 Speaker 4: It's so interesting. 203 00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:57,120 Speaker 3: I hear this more and more that maybe it's changing now, 204 00:08:57,160 --> 00:08:58,839 Speaker 3: which I think is a really exciting, you. 205 00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:00,600 Speaker 4: Know, direction shift education. 206 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:02,280 Speaker 3: But there are so many people who come out of 207 00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:04,640 Speaker 3: school feeling firstly like it's the end, not the beginning, 208 00:09:04,640 --> 00:09:09,040 Speaker 3: but also that the schooling system it favors certain types 209 00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:11,960 Speaker 3: of intellect and certain types of expression that then if 210 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:14,400 Speaker 3: you don't exhibit those exact traits often lead people to 211 00:09:14,400 --> 00:09:16,480 Speaker 3: think that they're not very smart, or that they don't 212 00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:19,440 Speaker 3: have a way in the world for their exact talents 213 00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:22,480 Speaker 3: to find a pathway where they're celebrated. And I love 214 00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:24,560 Speaker 3: that the very last line of your book is that 215 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:28,040 Speaker 3: you know you're still that kid who was distracted and 216 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:29,880 Speaker 3: wanted to talk to the person next to you instead 217 00:09:29,880 --> 00:09:33,200 Speaker 3: of being in classes, but that now that you know, 218 00:09:33,559 --> 00:09:37,319 Speaker 3: tendency towards people and storytelling is your strength rather than 219 00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:39,400 Speaker 3: something that back then you saw as a weakness. And 220 00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:42,640 Speaker 3: I think something I love to emphasize on this show 221 00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:46,400 Speaker 3: is that there aren't only two main forms of intellect 222 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:49,960 Speaker 3: or expression, or career or success, and that we're meant 223 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:52,960 Speaker 3: to find those gray areas in between, and that sometimes 224 00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:56,600 Speaker 3: that does take a music chapter and then a hairdressing chapter, 225 00:09:56,800 --> 00:10:01,120 Speaker 3: and you know, identity unravels in parts necessarily. You know 226 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:03,520 Speaker 3: you said early in the book as well, but you 227 00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:06,040 Speaker 3: didn't have a burning passion to become a hairdresser. That 228 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:07,800 Speaker 3: just happened to be the next chapter, which has then 229 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:11,480 Speaker 3: led to finding what you do now. So I think, yeah, 230 00:10:11,559 --> 00:10:14,800 Speaker 3: that was a wonderful insight on how music then kind 231 00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:18,640 Speaker 3: of helped you rEFInd your creativity and your form of 232 00:10:18,679 --> 00:10:20,199 Speaker 3: intellect definitely. 233 00:10:19,880 --> 00:10:22,079 Speaker 1: And everyone's version of that is going to be different, 234 00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:23,760 Speaker 1: isn't it. But I feel like some people that do 235 00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:25,760 Speaker 1: have this immediate idea of like this vocation that they 236 00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:27,880 Speaker 1: want to pursue, and I think that's really great when 237 00:10:27,920 --> 00:10:30,480 Speaker 1: people are so driven they have that kind of that 238 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:34,000 Speaker 1: from it early on. But the best people I meet 239 00:10:34,080 --> 00:10:36,559 Speaker 1: still like still working it out, and then I realized that, 240 00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:38,760 Speaker 1: oh yeah, you can keep on working out whatever that's 241 00:10:38,760 --> 00:10:40,280 Speaker 1: going to look like on the outside. But I think 242 00:10:40,400 --> 00:10:42,160 Speaker 1: there is something important to connect to you underneath it, 243 00:10:42,160 --> 00:10:44,680 Speaker 1: which is like what is it that really fills you up? Like, 244 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:46,080 Speaker 1: what is it that fills you up in a sense 245 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:48,800 Speaker 1: of like for me, it is people, and it is stories, 246 00:10:48,880 --> 00:10:51,480 Speaker 1: you know, and like I'm really extra in that way, 247 00:10:51,520 --> 00:10:53,760 Speaker 1: and I've always been out there talking to people and 248 00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:56,800 Speaker 1: get to know people. And I know you can't just 249 00:10:56,840 --> 00:10:58,880 Speaker 1: build a career around that as such, but it does 250 00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:01,320 Speaker 1: give you some kind of indicators of like where it 251 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:02,959 Speaker 1: is you might want to go. You know, I always 252 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:05,120 Speaker 1: knew I wasn't going to be behind the desk, and 253 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:07,679 Speaker 1: I think that that's totally cool if that's your trip too. 254 00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:10,320 Speaker 1: But I really hope that younger people. And when I do, 255 00:11:10,440 --> 00:11:12,680 Speaker 1: I give talks in schools and I talk about my 256 00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:15,000 Speaker 1: experiences and I'm like, oh, yeah, I'm not saying follow 257 00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:17,120 Speaker 1: what I did ever, But it's just it's important to 258 00:11:17,160 --> 00:11:19,880 Speaker 1: recognize that at fifteen or sixteen or seventeen or eighteen, 259 00:11:19,880 --> 00:11:23,559 Speaker 1: those kind of teenage formative years, like it's the beginning 260 00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:25,560 Speaker 1: and like no one should make you feel like you're 261 00:11:25,559 --> 00:11:28,400 Speaker 1: a failure in anything, Like you're not supposed to always 262 00:11:28,400 --> 00:11:31,120 Speaker 1: know exactly what it is you're supposed to do that age. 263 00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:33,440 Speaker 1: And I think the best thing to do is is 264 00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:35,720 Speaker 1: not put that pressure on people. As long as that 265 00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:38,280 Speaker 1: pressure is on people, then I think we're good because 266 00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:40,040 Speaker 1: as long as it's support on as long as it's love, 267 00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:41,720 Speaker 1: and if you're lucky enough to have that around you, 268 00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:44,240 Speaker 1: then hopefully it will work itself out. But I do 269 00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:45,880 Speaker 1: worry about the other side of it because I know 270 00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:48,560 Speaker 1: people who felt the same as me, and you know, 271 00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:51,040 Speaker 1: that can go in some difficult directions, you know, and 272 00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:54,199 Speaker 1: people can rebel in different ways that hurt other people 273 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:54,760 Speaker 1: around them. 274 00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:55,840 Speaker 2: And you know, if you put. 275 00:11:55,679 --> 00:11:57,760 Speaker 1: That pressure on someone who hasn't got that support new 276 00:11:57,800 --> 00:12:00,480 Speaker 1: work at home, who hasn't got that lover around them, 277 00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:03,040 Speaker 1: who hasn't got a safety net, that can come out 278 00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:04,200 Speaker 1: in all kinds of different ways. 279 00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:05,319 Speaker 4: Yeah, for sure. 280 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:07,600 Speaker 3: And how lucky that you did have an aunt and 281 00:12:07,640 --> 00:12:10,320 Speaker 3: a mum who knew that music would give you a 282 00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:13,680 Speaker 3: really important vehicle to express yourself and find the next chapter. 283 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:16,640 Speaker 3: But given that you didn't actually have a burning passion 284 00:12:16,679 --> 00:12:20,400 Speaker 3: to go into hairdressing, how did that become after doing 285 00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:22,960 Speaker 3: gigs and tours and working in bars, like, how did 286 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:24,120 Speaker 3: that become your next step? 287 00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:26,200 Speaker 1: It was honestly, it was something that I sort of 288 00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:28,080 Speaker 1: joke about with my friends now as well, because it 289 00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:30,080 Speaker 1: had this stigma attached to it, hedgress some what were 290 00:12:30,080 --> 00:12:31,840 Speaker 1: called in the UK. And you know, you're a hair 291 00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:34,280 Speaker 1: stylist if it's in the US. But it's like I 292 00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:36,360 Speaker 1: didn't see the route in for me initially because I 293 00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:37,839 Speaker 1: sort of saw it as something that used to be 294 00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:40,760 Speaker 1: these little salons on the corner and not something that 295 00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:42,760 Speaker 1: was like really creative and had all kinds of people 296 00:12:42,840 --> 00:12:44,960 Speaker 1: like doing all kinds of things in this industry. So 297 00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:47,760 Speaker 1: I think it has this perception from the outside from 298 00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:49,839 Speaker 1: like people who just walk into a cell or a barbershop, 299 00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:51,760 Speaker 1: and then when you get into the industry, you just 300 00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:54,240 Speaker 1: see like, wow, you were just your mind's blown by 301 00:12:54,320 --> 00:12:57,920 Speaker 1: like everything that's going on and like how passionate people are. 302 00:12:57,960 --> 00:13:00,440 Speaker 2: But yeah, for me, honestly, it wasn't that. It wasn't 303 00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:01,360 Speaker 2: that that. 304 00:13:01,240 --> 00:13:03,640 Speaker 1: Feeling of sort of fall in love with the industry 305 00:13:03,679 --> 00:13:04,839 Speaker 1: and that side of cutting hair. 306 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:07,760 Speaker 2: It was I knew I played guitar. 307 00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:09,640 Speaker 1: I knew I could do that, and I thought, like, 308 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:12,080 Speaker 1: these hands aren't very good at like putting up shelves 309 00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:12,880 Speaker 1: and doing DIY. 310 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:14,280 Speaker 2: So I was like, it's kind. 311 00:13:14,120 --> 00:13:16,480 Speaker 1: Of like, what's that the next thing that I can 312 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:17,920 Speaker 1: maybe do and get my hands into it. 313 00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:20,840 Speaker 2: And I feel almost like bad and I'm offending people 314 00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:21,199 Speaker 2: in that way. 315 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:22,680 Speaker 1: And I was naive, as I put in the book, 316 00:13:22,679 --> 00:13:24,400 Speaker 1: But I just like, I thought, how hard can this be? 317 00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:26,280 Speaker 1: I walk into a sound and ask if they need 318 00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:28,040 Speaker 1: me help. And I was like twenty four to twenty 319 00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:29,480 Speaker 1: five at the time, so it was a bit of 320 00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:33,800 Speaker 1: a humbling process. Like I walk in and you know, 321 00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:35,760 Speaker 1: you're usually trying to be a head just when you're 322 00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:38,160 Speaker 1: like sixteen and you start shampooing people of that age, 323 00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:40,800 Speaker 1: and I'm like, I was doing this in my mid twenties. 324 00:13:40,840 --> 00:13:43,040 Speaker 1: So to answer your question, it was like it was 325 00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:45,480 Speaker 1: a very humbling experience, and it was something that came 326 00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:47,160 Speaker 1: from music kind of. 327 00:13:47,120 --> 00:13:48,880 Speaker 2: Not really happening anymore, and. 328 00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:51,440 Speaker 1: A relationship in my life ended like that was quite 329 00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:55,280 Speaker 1: kind of a long relationship, and those two things kind 330 00:13:55,280 --> 00:13:57,760 Speaker 1: of it just felt like this a rebirth of sorts 331 00:13:57,800 --> 00:13:59,679 Speaker 1: that I needed to get my head into something, and 332 00:13:59,880 --> 00:14:02,400 Speaker 1: it was that. And I feel so thankful that I 333 00:14:02,559 --> 00:14:05,000 Speaker 1: got that opportunity because I worked for free for the 334 00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:08,640 Speaker 1: first year still, so basically I had to work jobs 335 00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:12,719 Speaker 1: around that, doing cafes and pubs and stuff like that 336 00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:15,360 Speaker 1: just to sort of pay rent for that year. And 337 00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:17,880 Speaker 1: then after that I was sort of fast track to 338 00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:19,400 Speaker 1: be in a stylis straight away because I picked it 339 00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:22,160 Speaker 1: up quite quickly, but it was really humbling. It was 340 00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:25,160 Speaker 1: an amazing experience. I realized quite quickly held like, obviously 341 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:27,120 Speaker 1: that role was a headress, so of course you want 342 00:14:27,160 --> 00:14:29,680 Speaker 1: to make someone look good on the outside. But yeah, 343 00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:32,240 Speaker 1: very quickly I was like, Okay, this is probably why 344 00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:35,320 Speaker 1: I got into it. Because I'm talking to people each day, 345 00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:38,360 Speaker 1: people can confine in you. You're of course busy, and 346 00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:41,720 Speaker 1: it's not always that easy. Sometimes you're back to back 347 00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:44,080 Speaker 1: and you're rushing through the day, but I realized how 348 00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:45,920 Speaker 1: important it is to be there for that person in 349 00:14:45,920 --> 00:14:46,400 Speaker 1: front of you. 350 00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:47,680 Speaker 4: It's really interesting that. 351 00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:50,800 Speaker 3: I think it's actually even more fascinating that you didn't 352 00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:53,000 Speaker 3: end up in it because you were so desperately passionate 353 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:56,680 Speaker 3: about that career. Because it's again another really important reminder 354 00:14:56,720 --> 00:14:59,600 Speaker 3: that inevitably the dots will connect, even if you don't 355 00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:01,600 Speaker 3: know what it the time, And now looking at what 356 00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:04,520 Speaker 3: you've done with that particular skill, it makes absolute sense 357 00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:07,720 Speaker 3: why that was what you gravitated towards. And one of 358 00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:09,640 Speaker 3: my best friends is a hairdresser, actually owns a couple 359 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:12,400 Speaker 3: of salons, is incredibly successful, and one of the things 360 00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:15,640 Speaker 3: that happens to her often is this, I think there's still. 361 00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:16,680 Speaker 4: Is a little bit of stigma that. 362 00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:20,600 Speaker 3: It's you know, a less educated job that you are 363 00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:23,360 Speaker 3: just you know, engaging in the superficial and making people 364 00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:26,800 Speaker 3: look good for you know, an event or whatever. But really, 365 00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:30,680 Speaker 3: she's like, you are seeing people at their most vulnerable often, 366 00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:33,080 Speaker 3: you know, you have counter patients who need their heads 367 00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:35,240 Speaker 3: shave for the first time, or you're being entrusted with 368 00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:38,520 Speaker 3: She's like, I could ruin some people with the secrets 369 00:15:38,560 --> 00:15:42,160 Speaker 3: that get told to me. Like that chair is as 370 00:15:42,240 --> 00:15:44,240 Speaker 3: valuable as as a therapist's chair. 371 00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:48,280 Speaker 1: Definitely, Honestly, that's that's it, Like it really we've got 372 00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:51,200 Speaker 1: this sneaky way of getting in there and like just 373 00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:56,480 Speaker 1: fishing for secrets, like you know, honestly though genuinely it's 374 00:15:56,560 --> 00:15:58,840 Speaker 1: not that calculative, but it is amazing that you're write 375 00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:01,200 Speaker 1: that chair can provide that trust, you can define it like, 376 00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:03,560 Speaker 1: so I think what's interesting too as well? You're right, 377 00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:05,600 Speaker 1: I mean there's so many different cases of people kind 378 00:16:05,640 --> 00:16:10,120 Speaker 1: of heckut can be like a new chapter in your life, 379 00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:12,240 Speaker 1: you know, if like a relationship's ended and like you 380 00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:13,960 Speaker 1: want to, oh you want to start a new job 381 00:16:14,120 --> 00:16:15,640 Speaker 1: or you know, as you said on the flip side, 382 00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:18,280 Speaker 1: it could be someone trusting you with something where they're 383 00:16:18,280 --> 00:16:20,880 Speaker 1: in a really difficult position and they really want your 384 00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:22,760 Speaker 1: advice and they want your knowledge on like how best 385 00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:24,520 Speaker 1: to sort of make them feel better in those moments. 386 00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:27,600 Speaker 1: So we all need, I think, people outside of our 387 00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:29,720 Speaker 1: circle to talk to. And that's the reason why people 388 00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:32,760 Speaker 1: will go to a therapist, because it's that objectivity, you know, 389 00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:35,400 Speaker 1: And I think you have your support network within your 390 00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:38,280 Speaker 1: friends and your family hopefully and beyond. 391 00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:40,720 Speaker 2: That, you do people to be able to sort of 392 00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:41,360 Speaker 2: share with. 393 00:16:41,680 --> 00:16:43,360 Speaker 1: And I think that the headress is a way that 394 00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:46,400 Speaker 1: I think, Okay, it's not prescribed in the same way 395 00:16:46,520 --> 00:16:48,840 Speaker 1: and it's not on paper, that's not the first reason 396 00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:52,200 Speaker 1: you go. But as part of that process and as 397 00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:54,480 Speaker 1: part of that experience, I've seen that time and time 398 00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:56,280 Speaker 1: again in the out on and like I definitely now 399 00:16:56,280 --> 00:16:58,640 Speaker 1: in the work that I do, I experienced that on 400 00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:00,640 Speaker 1: the street. And the reason for that, I believe is 401 00:17:00,640 --> 00:17:03,600 Speaker 1: also because when you face to face with someone that 402 00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:06,200 Speaker 1: sometimes for me is like all right, if you're getting 403 00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:08,720 Speaker 1: to know someone new, that like, I'm quite good in 404 00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:10,520 Speaker 1: those scenarios, but it took me a while to sort 405 00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:12,960 Speaker 1: of grow into that and for some people that's just 406 00:17:13,040 --> 00:17:15,359 Speaker 1: not that easy, you know, to like be looking someone 407 00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:18,080 Speaker 1: straight on eye contact. But for me, when I'm cutting 408 00:17:18,080 --> 00:17:20,199 Speaker 1: out on the street, I'm usually for most part and 409 00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:22,760 Speaker 1: behind someone or to the side, and they're looking out 410 00:17:22,840 --> 00:17:24,600 Speaker 1: at the world and looking out the street where they 411 00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:26,760 Speaker 1: were before. And I think that is actually a really 412 00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:31,240 Speaker 1: interesting part of it because it's not this really intense interaction. 413 00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:35,920 Speaker 1: I feel people relax into it, and I think that 414 00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:39,360 Speaker 1: that's what's kind of been able to then have those 415 00:17:39,359 --> 00:17:42,040 Speaker 1: conversations that are a bit more intimate, and I never 416 00:17:42,119 --> 00:17:44,520 Speaker 1: pry or push for like any particular bit of information. 417 00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:46,080 Speaker 2: You just see what happens. You just have a chat 418 00:17:46,119 --> 00:17:46,360 Speaker 2: like I. 419 00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:48,800 Speaker 1: Would have done in the chair in the sound, and 420 00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:51,000 Speaker 1: sometimes you get to know someone in a deeper way, 421 00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:53,200 Speaker 1: and sometimes it's just more surface level. 422 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:56,080 Speaker 3: Yet I actually loved reading about that in every single 423 00:17:56,119 --> 00:17:59,119 Speaker 3: story from the book, that it all starts with a 424 00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:01,560 Speaker 3: very casual convert station. It isn't kind of like I'm 425 00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:03,080 Speaker 3: going to cut your hair and change your life and 426 00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:05,520 Speaker 3: give you confidence, blah blah blah. You know, like the 427 00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:08,680 Speaker 3: scissors don't actually come out until you've really sat down 428 00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:11,320 Speaker 3: and engaged with them. As a person first, which I thought, 429 00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:15,760 Speaker 3: think is really beautiful talk us through that time in 430 00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:20,840 Speaker 3: twenty fifteen when it all started to change your understanding 431 00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:21,800 Speaker 3: of your role and what. 432 00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:23,119 Speaker 4: You could do with your skill. 433 00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:27,080 Speaker 3: Was it because you tried it first? I think you 434 00:18:27,119 --> 00:18:29,480 Speaker 3: were walking to work or walking to a friend's house 435 00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:31,720 Speaker 3: and you saw a guy on the street, And how 436 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:32,720 Speaker 3: long had you been in the salon? 437 00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:33,240 Speaker 4: Firstly? 438 00:18:33,760 --> 00:18:37,200 Speaker 3: And then how did this do something for nothing movement develop? 439 00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:40,080 Speaker 1: Oh, it was really interesting how it began because I'd 440 00:18:40,119 --> 00:18:42,040 Speaker 1: been working in a sund for probably only about three 441 00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:43,879 Speaker 1: years at that time, so I was just getting to 442 00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:46,879 Speaker 1: the stage where I was like building a clientele, getting 443 00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:49,240 Speaker 1: to know people who'd come back and see me a lot. 444 00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:52,480 Speaker 1: Like I guess it started to flourish, like why I 445 00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:54,720 Speaker 1: had got into this sort of become a headdress. What 446 00:18:54,760 --> 00:18:56,800 Speaker 1: I thought, I was going to work in a salon 447 00:18:56,880 --> 00:18:59,320 Speaker 1: and keep doing this and maybe have my own salon 448 00:18:59,359 --> 00:19:01,480 Speaker 1: one day and all that. Those kinds of things I've 449 00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:03,840 Speaker 1: never done. The five year plan, three year I'm usually 450 00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:06,800 Speaker 1: like about a few months ahead of myself most of 451 00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:09,200 Speaker 1: the time in my life, and I think that that's 452 00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:11,880 Speaker 1: like for the first time, actually, I started to feel 453 00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:12,160 Speaker 1: and sound. 454 00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:13,479 Speaker 2: I was like, Okay, maybe this is like what I'm 455 00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:13,800 Speaker 2: going to do. 456 00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:16,720 Speaker 1: I started thinking future tents, but that all changed and 457 00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:19,119 Speaker 1: it was I kind of like look back, and I 458 00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:22,240 Speaker 1: feel like I knew it was going to because it 459 00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:25,040 Speaker 1: was that side of this that I've spoken about, was 460 00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:26,960 Speaker 1: that kind of like being there for the person in 461 00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:29,600 Speaker 1: front of you. That on one day, I had my 462 00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:31,359 Speaker 1: backpack with me and I was on the way to 463 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:34,560 Speaker 1: another client's head. I basically I was on the way 464 00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:36,280 Speaker 1: to a client's house where I do the outside of 465 00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:39,040 Speaker 1: work to get some extra pocket money, and I had 466 00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:40,960 Speaker 1: my things with me and my backpack and I saw 467 00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:42,359 Speaker 1: somebody who was on the street and I ended up 468 00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:44,760 Speaker 1: giving them a haircut instead, And that was not something 469 00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:47,520 Speaker 1: I actually really thought through that much, and effact, I'm 470 00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:49,680 Speaker 1: really glad that I didn't have much time to sort 471 00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:52,560 Speaker 1: of think about whether that's a good idea to ask 472 00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:55,040 Speaker 1: somebody or whether it's something i'd really need, because let's 473 00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:57,399 Speaker 1: be honest, like if you haven't got somewhere to stay 474 00:19:57,440 --> 00:19:59,240 Speaker 1: that night, or you're not sure where you're getting your 475 00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:01,639 Speaker 1: next meal from, it's like here I am turning up 476 00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:03,240 Speaker 1: with I like, fancy a haircut? 477 00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:05,600 Speaker 2: I said, you know, I probably could have done some. 478 00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:09,680 Speaker 1: In a dialogue that would have you know, maybe told 479 00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:11,239 Speaker 1: me that might not be the right thing to do. 480 00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:14,280 Speaker 1: But instead I just I was buying someone a coffee 481 00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:16,840 Speaker 1: and I sat down with them, and I just remember 482 00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:19,520 Speaker 1: I had my all my stuff with me, and I 483 00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:21,960 Speaker 1: offered this personal haircut and they said yes. And that 484 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:24,960 Speaker 1: really was the beginning of all of this, because without 485 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:28,119 Speaker 1: that first interaction, I don't know what you're doing now. 486 00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:30,240 Speaker 1: I think I'd like to think that probably would have 487 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:31,600 Speaker 1: happened anyway, but another time. 488 00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:33,400 Speaker 2: But from that it. 489 00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:36,320 Speaker 1: Was the you know, the beginning of a few months 490 00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:38,000 Speaker 1: of going out and doing this more and more. So 491 00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:42,879 Speaker 1: I was immediately hit with this importance of not just 492 00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:44,960 Speaker 1: the skill I had to go and give someone like 493 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:47,919 Speaker 1: a transformation and like make them, you know, kind of 494 00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:50,240 Speaker 1: clean them up a bit, and obviously like giving them 495 00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:52,600 Speaker 1: the mirror. At the end was this really beautiful moment 496 00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:56,000 Speaker 1: of seeing somebody sort of you know, recognize someone they 497 00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:58,800 Speaker 1: had seen for a while and and hopefully feel a 498 00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:02,640 Speaker 1: little bit more confident and more dignified. But honestly, straight away, 499 00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:04,560 Speaker 1: it was the conversation. It was being able to sit 500 00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:07,040 Speaker 1: down and listen and listen to someone's story, and it 501 00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:11,280 Speaker 1: was that that I became really addicted to begin with, 502 00:21:11,359 --> 00:21:13,320 Speaker 1: and I knew it was that side of it that 503 00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:15,040 Speaker 1: I had this itch. Then I was just like, I've 504 00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:16,879 Speaker 1: got to go out and keep doing this, and the 505 00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:20,960 Speaker 1: stories I was hearing just dissolved, like all these myths 506 00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:24,320 Speaker 1: that surrounded this word homeless that I feel like, you know, 507 00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:26,200 Speaker 1: I had to work out what kind of over the 508 00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:28,400 Speaker 1: years had been my own opinion about this issue, and 509 00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:30,840 Speaker 1: what had been just things that had stuck to me 510 00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:33,639 Speaker 1: from the information I was getting from different articles. And 511 00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:36,560 Speaker 1: you know, it was just within the first five people 512 00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:39,800 Speaker 1: or ten people I met, you know, I met someone 513 00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:43,120 Speaker 1: who had their own business and you know, I had 514 00:21:43,119 --> 00:21:46,400 Speaker 1: a family and ended up losing it all. I also met, 515 00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:48,200 Speaker 1: like on the other side of that coin, like someone 516 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:50,920 Speaker 1: who grew up in a really difficult neighborhood who didn't 517 00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:54,600 Speaker 1: really have many chances and much of a support network, 518 00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:57,399 Speaker 1: you know, those younger people and older people, And I 519 00:21:57,520 --> 00:22:01,120 Speaker 1: just thought, this thing is just, you know, on the surface, 520 00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:05,399 Speaker 1: it sometimes has this kind of this look that you know, 521 00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:07,960 Speaker 1: we feel like it's just people making mistakes or choosing 522 00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:10,520 Speaker 1: kind of like a certain path and it just really 523 00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:13,280 Speaker 1: is not like that, And even when it is, I 524 00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:15,680 Speaker 1: was thinking, you know, I've made mistakes in my own 525 00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:18,120 Speaker 1: life and make bad choices, but like I'm thankful enough, 526 00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:20,840 Speaker 1: like there's been people around me who've been able to. 527 00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:21,719 Speaker 2: Support me in those moments. 528 00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:26,119 Speaker 1: So yeah, from that first heck, the story was like 529 00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:29,479 Speaker 1: I suppose for me my own story change, which was 530 00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:31,960 Speaker 1: like the listening that I do in the song and 531 00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:33,920 Speaker 1: that kind of being there for someone. 532 00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:35,960 Speaker 2: I learned how to do that, I think in a 533 00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:37,040 Speaker 2: different way. On the street. 534 00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:39,399 Speaker 1: I used to try and fill all the gaps in 535 00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:42,200 Speaker 1: a conversation and be like, okay, this is how we interact. 536 00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:44,760 Speaker 2: My turn to talk, your turn to talk. 537 00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:49,000 Speaker 1: I learned to get really quiet and be able to 538 00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:52,359 Speaker 1: when someone's talking, just stay quiet and listen to what 539 00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:53,960 Speaker 1: else they have to say after the bit where you 540 00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:57,160 Speaker 1: digitally kick in and say something else. From those first 541 00:22:57,200 --> 00:22:58,879 Speaker 1: few people, it turned into, as I said, ten to 542 00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:02,720 Speaker 1: twenty people, and I've got days off and do this, 543 00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:05,320 Speaker 1: And then I ended up leaving my job probably about 544 00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:09,239 Speaker 1: three or four months after I started doing this, And 545 00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:11,680 Speaker 1: that was on a whim really, to be. 546 00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:15,359 Speaker 3: Honest, Wow, oh my gosh, I mean I love that 547 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:18,919 Speaker 3: so much that you mentioned that it might not have 548 00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:21,520 Speaker 3: actually happened if you'd had more time to think about it. 549 00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:23,359 Speaker 3: And I think there are a couple of things that 550 00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:26,199 Speaker 3: can kill really good ideas, and one of them is 551 00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:27,520 Speaker 3: overthinking and over. 552 00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:29,280 Speaker 2: Planning, yeah, for sure. 553 00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:31,679 Speaker 3: And the other one is the idea of you know, 554 00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:34,919 Speaker 3: it's important to have certainty instability to an extent, and 555 00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:36,960 Speaker 3: to sort of plan for the future. But sometimes if 556 00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:40,720 Speaker 3: your plans are too rigidly set in stone, you preclude 557 00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:43,760 Speaker 3: the possibility of something better turning up, like this idea 558 00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:45,760 Speaker 3: that you could just roll with and just see what happened. 559 00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:48,960 Speaker 3: And who knew that four months later you'd have left 560 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:51,400 Speaker 3: your job to actually do this full time. But how 561 00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:56,159 Speaker 3: extraordinary that it grew so quickly into something that consumed you. 562 00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:58,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I think it's a really really good 563 00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:00,680 Speaker 1: point you're making, because you're right the thing about stuff, 564 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:03,040 Speaker 1: I think so many you're writ so many good ideas. 565 00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:05,320 Speaker 1: I think we have them, and then we have this 566 00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:09,480 Speaker 1: internal dialogue, but it's sometimes not all that useful. And 567 00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:12,199 Speaker 1: I know that we need to, like, yeah, we need 568 00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:13,920 Speaker 1: to weigh things up in our mind in our life 569 00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:16,439 Speaker 1: and work out the dos and don'ts and try and 570 00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:19,159 Speaker 1: make a measured decision based on those. But some of 571 00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:21,159 Speaker 1: these things, and I talk about this a lot, is 572 00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:24,720 Speaker 1: you know, especially when people ask me questions saying, you know, 573 00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:26,919 Speaker 1: how best is it to go out and interact with 574 00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:30,600 Speaker 1: someone who's experience in homelessness, and how do you approach somebody, 575 00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:32,560 Speaker 1: and like the sort of guide to as far as 576 00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:35,000 Speaker 1: like how you'd have one of these kinds of interactions. 577 00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:38,320 Speaker 1: And often I said, well, I can answer those questions 578 00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:40,240 Speaker 1: or I can respond to them, but just to let 579 00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:42,600 Speaker 1: you know, like this area that we're talking about and 580 00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:45,080 Speaker 1: these kind of questions no point of fingers. But it's 581 00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:48,199 Speaker 1: usually the biggest part of the problem, which is thinking 582 00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:50,080 Speaker 1: there's all these questions that you need to answer and 583 00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:52,840 Speaker 1: all the how to work you just go up and 584 00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:56,159 Speaker 1: say hello and how are you? And I think the 585 00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:58,240 Speaker 1: more I do this, the more I realize that I 586 00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:00,840 Speaker 1: still have those moments and it's so normal to have them, 587 00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:03,320 Speaker 1: to think, you know, it's not that easy sometimes to 588 00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:06,720 Speaker 1: like approach a complete stranger. I'm so I'm talking from 589 00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:09,240 Speaker 1: a side of rewinding and thinking about what this was 590 00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:11,960 Speaker 1: like from me before and having empathy for that. It's 591 00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:14,080 Speaker 1: not that easy, Like, sometimes you need to get outside 592 00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:16,840 Speaker 1: of your comfort zone, especially in the scenario that I'm 593 00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:19,919 Speaker 1: talking about, where you're talking people who are often in 594 00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:23,480 Speaker 1: a very difficult position, sometimes suffering a lot with different issues. 595 00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:25,000 Speaker 1: So I'm not going to sit here for a second 596 00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:26,600 Speaker 1: and say get out there and do it. It's really easy, 597 00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:29,040 Speaker 1: but I'd like to say play out the worst case scenario. 598 00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:30,960 Speaker 1: And I do that for myself sometimes when I sometimes 599 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:33,040 Speaker 1: feel a little bit nervy about talking to somebody new, 600 00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:35,080 Speaker 1: and it's like, you know, it's the middle of the day, 601 00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:38,320 Speaker 1: usually it's a busy street, there's somebody sat there by 602 00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:41,399 Speaker 1: a cash point, in a supermarket, a bus stop, in 603 00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:42,000 Speaker 1: a doorway. 604 00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:44,520 Speaker 2: They're not looking too good, or maybe they are, and 605 00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:46,359 Speaker 2: they're smiling, so that makes it easy. 606 00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:48,360 Speaker 1: But even if the energy is not so good, it's 607 00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:50,960 Speaker 1: like if I got up and I say, hey, how 608 00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:54,040 Speaker 1: are you doing, What's like, you know, just draw their attention, smile. 609 00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:58,000 Speaker 2: I'm even going to be met with a smile back, 610 00:25:58,359 --> 00:25:59,000 Speaker 2: a kind of like. 611 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:01,320 Speaker 1: Warm interaction, maybe one that's a bit cagy, And then 612 00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:03,399 Speaker 1: I think it's important just to read that energy. 613 00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:06,240 Speaker 2: And oftentimes I will always just say to people, can I. 614 00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:08,160 Speaker 1: Can I sit and chat with you for a while, 615 00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:10,719 Speaker 1: and then if someone doesn't want to do that, if 616 00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:14,240 Speaker 1: they're not feeling right, the worst case scenario is that 617 00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:16,800 Speaker 1: they tell you to go away, and they might do 618 00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:19,000 Speaker 1: it in some slightly aggressive way. They might not be 619 00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:20,959 Speaker 1: having a good day. But in all the years I've 620 00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:24,000 Speaker 1: been doing this, like, I've never had anyone become violent 621 00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:26,240 Speaker 1: towards me. I've never had anyone lash out at me. 622 00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:27,920 Speaker 1: It's just about what do I do with that moment 623 00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:30,760 Speaker 1: if someone doesn't want to talk to me and they're 624 00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:32,440 Speaker 1: not feeling good and they're having a bad day, which, 625 00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:35,000 Speaker 1: by the way, I often have those days before coffee 626 00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:36,560 Speaker 1: in the morning, I don't want to talk to anyone, 627 00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:38,480 Speaker 1: you know, or we wonder what it's like to have 628 00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:40,879 Speaker 1: those days. We're like, you know what today talking to 629 00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:44,000 Speaker 1: nobody would be amazing, like and I think I just 630 00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:46,399 Speaker 1: recognize that to allow for someone else's bad days, to 631 00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:47,000 Speaker 1: allow for my. 632 00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:49,800 Speaker 2: Own, And then it's really important just to say, like 633 00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:50,600 Speaker 2: what do I do with that? 634 00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:52,600 Speaker 1: Am I going to take that experience and walk off 635 00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:55,800 Speaker 1: and say, oh, I'm really hurt by that, and like 636 00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:57,720 Speaker 1: I'm not going to approach somebody in that way again, 637 00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:01,119 Speaker 1: And let that be the lesson or just think, okay, cool, 638 00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:04,159 Speaker 1: like that experience exists where it did, I'm going to 639 00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:06,320 Speaker 1: leave it there and I'm going to walk on and 640 00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:09,120 Speaker 1: the next person I see is a brand new interaction. 641 00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:12,000 Speaker 3: I love that, And I think something that I think 642 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:16,440 Speaker 3: it was Nathan pointed out that's really important in. 643 00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:16,640 Speaker 4: All human interactions. 644 00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:18,960 Speaker 3: I think there are so many lessons about humanity generally, 645 00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:21,760 Speaker 3: is that I think sometimes you want to offer sympathy, 646 00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:26,080 Speaker 3: whereas really someone just wants empathy. And because sympathy can 647 00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:28,440 Speaker 3: become in there is a very fine line. They're very 648 00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:33,000 Speaker 3: kind of conflated concept sometimes, but sympathy puts distance between 649 00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:35,280 Speaker 3: you and someone is like I'm the helper and you're 650 00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:37,800 Speaker 3: the vulnerable. But empathy is like we're actually just all 651 00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:39,600 Speaker 3: people and I'm just trying to sit down and have 652 00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:42,640 Speaker 3: a chat. If you're having a shit day, I'll leave 653 00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:44,919 Speaker 3: you alone. I'll move on to someone else. And I 654 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:47,600 Speaker 3: loved that distinction because I think homeless people would often 655 00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:51,600 Speaker 3: get sympathy when that's actually not a helpful, necessarily emotion. 656 00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:53,960 Speaker 1: I'm so glad you mentioned that. It is so important 657 00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:56,840 Speaker 1: because like that, it's specific interaction. Nathan, who I met 658 00:27:56,840 --> 00:27:58,960 Speaker 1: in Brisbane. It was like that in a nutshell, is 659 00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:02,000 Speaker 1: such a great lesson? Is like sympathy honestly a lot 660 00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:05,000 Speaker 1: of the time is actually a really useless emotion or 661 00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:06,359 Speaker 1: like a useless kind of And I don't mean that 662 00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:09,680 Speaker 1: in a bad way. It's okay to feel, oh, yeah, 663 00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:11,480 Speaker 1: they're having a really bad time, like I do feel 664 00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:14,280 Speaker 1: for them right now, but if you're on the receiving. 665 00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:16,080 Speaker 2: End of that, there's not much you can do with that. 666 00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:17,960 Speaker 1: I put myself in that scenario a lot of like 667 00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:20,359 Speaker 1: what would be like for me if I was living 668 00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:22,800 Speaker 1: outside and most of the interactions I had were ones 669 00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:25,320 Speaker 1: where I had to go and like ask someone for something, 670 00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:28,280 Speaker 1: whether that be like a shelter or a food bank, 671 00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:30,720 Speaker 1: or you know, someone from the street, like whether they've 672 00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:32,800 Speaker 1: got some change. And I think after quite a few 673 00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:35,760 Speaker 1: of those interactions, I probably would feel like it's not 674 00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:38,120 Speaker 1: very dignified process, and the last thing I'd want is 675 00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:41,080 Speaker 1: sympathy on top of that to feel like I'm not 676 00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:43,200 Speaker 1: a human being. It's like, I'm just in a difficult 677 00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:45,360 Speaker 1: position and this is where I'm at right now. But 678 00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:47,920 Speaker 1: as Nathan said, sympathy is kind of useless to him. 679 00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:50,320 Speaker 1: It's like try and like build a bridge of empathy. 680 00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:52,520 Speaker 1: And I really think that that just starts with like 681 00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:55,160 Speaker 1: those first blocks. It's like, Okay, you might not be 682 00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:58,800 Speaker 1: able to imagine completely like all the nuances of someone's 683 00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:01,160 Speaker 1: life and what they're going through now, but you can 684 00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:03,560 Speaker 1: sit on that a little bit and you can kind 685 00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:05,760 Speaker 1: of get there, you know. I think it's it's another 686 00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:08,120 Speaker 1: thing where there's these platitude we say to people, and 687 00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:10,400 Speaker 1: I think it happens a lot through grief and loss 688 00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:13,080 Speaker 1: as well, where people say, I can't imagine what that 689 00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:15,160 Speaker 1: would be, Like, God, I can't imagine what. 690 00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:18,360 Speaker 2: You're going through, And I think you can. I think 691 00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:21,240 Speaker 2: you can actually, like you can try. Yeah, I think 692 00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:21,560 Speaker 2: you can. 693 00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:22,960 Speaker 1: I think you can work out what it's like to 694 00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:25,440 Speaker 1: sit down and it's not easy and it's not nice, 695 00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:28,040 Speaker 1: but to think about losing a loved one or a 696 00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:30,440 Speaker 1: friend or someone who's really did to you, you probably 697 00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:32,120 Speaker 1: can imagine what it's like not to have them in 698 00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:34,840 Speaker 1: your life anymore. But it's saying you can't imagine, or 699 00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:37,400 Speaker 1: saying kind of, you know, putting someone on that island 700 00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:40,400 Speaker 1: then where they're kind of they're further away from you. 701 00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:43,360 Speaker 1: It isolates somebody. So I think it's better to start 702 00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:46,680 Speaker 1: on that route and that direction, even if you're like, 703 00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:49,920 Speaker 1: hands up, I don't know all of it, but that's 704 00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:52,200 Speaker 1: an important road to take rather than pity and sympathy. 705 00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:53,840 Speaker 2: So I think is a really interesting point to raise. 706 00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:56,680 Speaker 3: I also loved I think one of the really powerful 707 00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:59,280 Speaker 3: reflections from you towards the end as well, after having 708 00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:02,479 Speaker 3: done a tour of you know, multiple different countries with 709 00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:05,520 Speaker 3: your scissors and meeting so many different people, was that 710 00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:10,680 Speaker 3: homelessness is you know, the greatest, most obvious challenges are 711 00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:14,560 Speaker 3: surviving on the street and warmth and food, but actually 712 00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:17,040 Speaker 3: those basic survival instincts are not as difficult as the 713 00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:21,720 Speaker 3: social isolation psychologically that people face, Like I think that's 714 00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:25,280 Speaker 3: so sad that there are huge populations of people that are, 715 00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:29,920 Speaker 3: you know, considered invisible, that either get only pity and 716 00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:32,440 Speaker 3: sympathy or I just treated as if they're not there. 717 00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:36,280 Speaker 3: And the simplest gesture, even if it's not necessarily creating 718 00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:39,760 Speaker 3: a full movement called do something for nothing and writing 719 00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:42,440 Speaker 3: a book, even just a smile. I think you wrote 720 00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:45,200 Speaker 3: wrote quite a few pages about the impact of giving 721 00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:47,280 Speaker 3: someone a smile and what's the worst that can happen. 722 00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:50,480 Speaker 3: They don't smile back. I mean, no one's died of that, so. 723 00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:52,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly right. 724 00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:56,600 Speaker 1: You know, it's sometimes putting it in those simplest of 725 00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:58,960 Speaker 1: terms to feel like, you know, really, come on, what 726 00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:00,320 Speaker 1: is that going to cost you? 727 00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:03,160 Speaker 2: Is free? We've all got it. And I think what. 728 00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:07,440 Speaker 1: You're saying is really it's the crux of everything the 729 00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:10,560 Speaker 1: book's about and everything that I try and body, like 730 00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:13,480 Speaker 1: the ethos would do something for nothing is honestly for 731 00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:18,040 Speaker 1: the record, like you smiling at someone is as important 732 00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:20,840 Speaker 1: as me writing this whole book and doing this. What 733 00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:23,120 Speaker 1: I'm trying to say is like this is just my 734 00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:25,440 Speaker 1: version of it, but this is something that has existed. 735 00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:28,960 Speaker 1: It's an inherent part of being a human. It's like 736 00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:33,920 Speaker 1: you need those social interactions. We hard word for the stuff. 737 00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:35,560 Speaker 1: We wouldn't survive without sharing. 738 00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:35,959 Speaker 2: You know. 739 00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:38,440 Speaker 1: Of course we've always had conflict, we've always had struggle, 740 00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:40,600 Speaker 1: but in terms of crisis, like we've had to share 741 00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:43,200 Speaker 1: and we've had to come together and from smaller tribes 742 00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:47,080 Speaker 1: many years ago to where we are now with so 743 00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:49,880 Speaker 1: much comfort and so many people with the affluence and 744 00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:51,720 Speaker 1: comfort who are without and who are suffering. 745 00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:52,480 Speaker 2: But you're right. 746 00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:55,040 Speaker 1: I think, of course there's that material side, and I 747 00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:57,960 Speaker 1: do have the political conversation too, where of course you 748 00:31:58,000 --> 00:31:59,880 Speaker 1: need more affordable house and of course we need to 749 00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:03,720 Speaker 1: changing like the way that we kind of run our 750 00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:06,960 Speaker 1: cities to like leave so many people falling through the cracks. 751 00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:09,960 Speaker 1: But that's social isolation at the sharp end, when you 752 00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:14,120 Speaker 1: are already isolated, and when you are already out there 753 00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:16,160 Speaker 1: and you're living on the street, it's like those things 754 00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:19,520 Speaker 1: are a huge They have fundamental parts of what we 755 00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:22,600 Speaker 1: all need, so for them to be discounted, it's just 756 00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:25,240 Speaker 1: like there they can be everything to someone. I've met people, 757 00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:29,280 Speaker 1: I've heard stories of people who are like, you know, 758 00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:33,200 Speaker 1: ready to end it, or and someone bothering to have 759 00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:36,440 Speaker 1: that conversation and bothering to smile with them. Like it 760 00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:38,840 Speaker 1: can be the difference. It's not a complete solution, it's 761 00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:42,040 Speaker 1: not a complete answer. I know sometimes that the way 762 00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:45,640 Speaker 1: that people work it is very methodical, and they want 763 00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:48,920 Speaker 1: to think about kind of like seeing clear, tangible results 764 00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:52,000 Speaker 1: for the work they do in this world, and like 765 00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:53,960 Speaker 1: like I want change, Like I want change that happen. 766 00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:55,520 Speaker 2: I want to see these numbers reduced. 767 00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:56,920 Speaker 1: I want to see a number of people dying on 768 00:32:56,920 --> 00:33:00,320 Speaker 1: the street each year, like reducing the time here on 769 00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:04,200 Speaker 1: this earth, trying to get more people inside and kind 770 00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:04,800 Speaker 1: of looked after. 771 00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:07,360 Speaker 2: But in the meantime, I'm like, what can I do today? 772 00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:08,880 Speaker 2: What are the things I can do today? 773 00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:11,080 Speaker 1: Because I can certainly walk out into this world and be, like, 774 00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:14,000 Speaker 1: you know, when I'm able, like spend a bit more 775 00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:16,160 Speaker 1: time with people, be more aware of one another, as 776 00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:18,160 Speaker 1: you said, like those simple things that smile that how 777 00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:18,440 Speaker 1: are you? 778 00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:19,600 Speaker 2: That's like the. 779 00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:21,520 Speaker 1: Value of that for me is just it's so huge, 780 00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:22,760 Speaker 1: and I see it played out in the work I 781 00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:23,600 Speaker 1: do all the time. 782 00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:27,800 Speaker 3: That also makes me think about how dramatically your relationship 783 00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:31,960 Speaker 3: to concepts like success must you know, have changed over 784 00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:35,480 Speaker 3: this whole journey and the meaning of impact. And you 785 00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:37,840 Speaker 3: mentioned the word value, like I think one of the 786 00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:40,520 Speaker 3: stories that resonated very very strongly with me from the 787 00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:42,560 Speaker 3: book was the family who's living on skid row in 788 00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:47,800 Speaker 3: la and how even headed they sounded about wealth being 789 00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:51,040 Speaker 3: like just so far from the be all and end 790 00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:55,040 Speaker 3: all of happiness and fulfillment, and how joyful they were that, 791 00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:58,040 Speaker 3: you know, the positives they could find in their life 792 00:33:58,040 --> 00:33:59,920 Speaker 3: that they had each other, that they had a roof 793 00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:01,840 Speaker 3: over their head, albeit that it was a tent on 794 00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:04,680 Speaker 3: skid row, that they could see what they had to 795 00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:06,840 Speaker 3: be grateful for, versus someone who didn't have a tent 796 00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:09,440 Speaker 3: and who was out on the street. And I think 797 00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:11,480 Speaker 3: concepts that a lot of us face in our day 798 00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:14,359 Speaker 3: to day lives, like the glorification are busy and like that, 799 00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:17,800 Speaker 3: you know, relentless forward movement for success that doesn't necessarily 800 00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:20,880 Speaker 3: make anyone happy. How has that all changed for you 801 00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:23,480 Speaker 3: over your journey and how have you funded yourself having 802 00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:26,080 Speaker 3: left your job as well, like to keep going on 803 00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:29,520 Speaker 3: this mission? And now what does impact and success mean? 804 00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:31,919 Speaker 1: I'm a victim to all of those things as well, 805 00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:33,480 Speaker 1: Like that to do list in my mind to put 806 00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:35,239 Speaker 1: up post on my Instagram a couple of days ago 807 00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:37,520 Speaker 1: and on such a release which was like getting redal 808 00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:39,880 Speaker 1: with my own mental health sometimes and realizing that to 809 00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:42,239 Speaker 1: be really honest, the last couple of months, like I've 810 00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:44,600 Speaker 1: had that sort of fictitious to do list, where like 811 00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:48,200 Speaker 1: sometimes in my head each day, like my success has 812 00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:50,400 Speaker 1: been making sure I do everything that I've said I'm 813 00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:52,239 Speaker 1: going to do in my head by the end of 814 00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:54,880 Speaker 1: the day. And if I don't then like it's not 815 00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:57,759 Speaker 1: been such a good day, and days blended into weeks, 816 00:34:57,800 --> 00:34:59,759 Speaker 1: and weeks blend into months, and I sort of came 817 00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:02,080 Speaker 1: down the line a couple of months into like this, 818 00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:04,400 Speaker 1: I love how you said yes, like glorifying like this 819 00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:07,279 Speaker 1: word busy, and like I'm busy. I'm productive if I'm 820 00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:08,920 Speaker 1: doing all the things I need to do. And I 821 00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:10,680 Speaker 1: came out at the end of this this full on 822 00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:14,440 Speaker 1: busy couple of months doing that feeling awful, like feeling 823 00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:19,240 Speaker 1: really terrible, like not available for people, not available for myself. 824 00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:22,279 Speaker 1: So I still today like doing the work that I do. 825 00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:23,400 Speaker 2: I have to check in with that. 826 00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:27,200 Speaker 1: So I think it's rather than feeling pessimistic about the 827 00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:29,680 Speaker 1: concept that it's going to keep coming back at you, 828 00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:33,040 Speaker 1: it's like, I think it's actually positive because we are 829 00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:37,320 Speaker 1: all beings that, like society's version of what success and 830 00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:40,759 Speaker 1: busy is, sometimes really matters because you need to pay 831 00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:43,000 Speaker 1: the rent and you need to have the things around 832 00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:45,040 Speaker 1: you that make you feel comfortable, and you might have 833 00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:46,960 Speaker 1: a family as well, like I want kids one day, 834 00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:48,400 Speaker 1: and I want to be able to make sure they 835 00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:50,720 Speaker 1: can do the things that they want to do as well. 836 00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:55,040 Speaker 1: So like these material things matter conceptually to like to 837 00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:58,520 Speaker 1: have the things that we have to whatever your version 838 00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:00,360 Speaker 1: of success looks like, and that would be different for everyone, 839 00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:01,120 Speaker 1: Like my version of. 840 00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:03,520 Speaker 2: That is going to be way different than another person's. 841 00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:07,719 Speaker 1: But buying into that why is a really dangerous game 842 00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:11,000 Speaker 1: because like somewhere inside you, there's somebody who longs for 843 00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:13,640 Speaker 1: the things that like we haven't evolved past, which is 844 00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:18,279 Speaker 1: like feeling purpose in this like life, feeling like you're 845 00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:22,000 Speaker 1: involved in things that like are authentic to you and 846 00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:25,040 Speaker 1: who you are, and like again that's just everyone's version 847 00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:27,440 Speaker 1: of that is so different. But for me, I just 848 00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:29,839 Speaker 1: know that when I leave those things by the wayside, 849 00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:32,480 Speaker 1: like I'm always a couple of months away from getting 850 00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:34,120 Speaker 1: my head in a tangle and having to like really 851 00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:36,440 Speaker 1: take some time out, and I feel that we can 852 00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:39,440 Speaker 1: help each other through that, and like it's culturally it 853 00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:41,160 Speaker 1: does take a bit of a shift. I'm not saying 854 00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:45,240 Speaker 1: that I'm against like everyone crushing it to do everything 855 00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:48,920 Speaker 1: they need to like become successful, but I'm trying to 856 00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:52,080 Speaker 1: have this conversation as lots of people are online, just 857 00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:56,080 Speaker 1: to recognize like these human moments, these interactions, like being vulnerable, 858 00:36:56,200 --> 00:36:59,560 Speaker 1: sharing in this way, it's super important. It's super important 859 00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:02,760 Speaker 1: because the price is really high. And then on that point, 860 00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:05,160 Speaker 1: I suppose, of course the people that I'd meet on 861 00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:07,000 Speaker 1: a days day basis, men and women who are experience 862 00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:09,520 Speaker 1: in homelessness, Like it's one way that I see that 863 00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:12,520 Speaker 1: we can help people, or that it's just radically just 864 00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:14,680 Speaker 1: could be so much different than it is right now, 865 00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:16,880 Speaker 1: because what help looks like for somebody at the moment 866 00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:20,400 Speaker 1: I understand is like getting them inside, getting them shelter, 867 00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:23,840 Speaker 1: getting people fed, getting those basic needs map. But it 868 00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:26,839 Speaker 1: is incredible to me sometimes thinking about like this side 869 00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:31,439 Speaker 1: of the conversation, this reconnection to like who you are, 870 00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:36,000 Speaker 1: when I see that actually those things link up. Someone 871 00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:38,840 Speaker 1: give them a couple of years and they'll be in 872 00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:40,160 Speaker 1: a way better place, you know. 873 00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:43,480 Speaker 2: So it's really important that politically. 874 00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:45,200 Speaker 1: We had this kind of conversations too, Like it's becoming 875 00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:48,080 Speaker 1: so much more popular as conversation of our collective mental 876 00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:51,120 Speaker 1: health and how it's all intertwined. But like, I know 877 00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:53,640 Speaker 1: that when you reconnect someone to who they are, like 878 00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:56,440 Speaker 1: there's so much better chance for them to successfully like 879 00:37:56,719 --> 00:38:00,359 Speaker 1: get back on their feet quote unquote. Then you might 880 00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:02,480 Speaker 1: just give someone like a house and some food in 881 00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:05,400 Speaker 1: the fridge, and they're still stuck inside like with all 882 00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:08,080 Speaker 1: the same problems as they had before. So I just 883 00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:10,560 Speaker 1: think like this part of the conversation is something like 884 00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:12,200 Speaker 1: we're getting to now, and I have a lot of 885 00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:15,080 Speaker 1: optimism to to sort of with the work that I do, 886 00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:17,759 Speaker 1: continue it and try and like sort of create that 887 00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:20,440 Speaker 1: change with the things we're talking about from above as 888 00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:22,120 Speaker 1: well as from ground level. 889 00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:25,160 Speaker 3: I think something that I really liked reading the book 890 00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:27,480 Speaker 3: was that you do keep in contact with a lot 891 00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:29,279 Speaker 3: of the people who you meet. You don't just meet 892 00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:31,719 Speaker 3: them once, take a photo and kind of, you know, 893 00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:34,759 Speaker 3: lose tight. Do you actually follow them through often to 894 00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:39,200 Speaker 3: a really wonderful progression in their journey since the last 895 00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:42,560 Speaker 3: time you saw them. Are there any sort of moments 896 00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:46,680 Speaker 3: that just pull your heart strings every time that you 897 00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:48,960 Speaker 3: think about that, you know, the people who have stuck 898 00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:50,799 Speaker 3: out or the moments that have stuck out in the 899 00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:52,080 Speaker 3: last kind of five years. 900 00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:54,320 Speaker 1: Well, in the front of the book, I dedicated to 901 00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:57,200 Speaker 1: someone who's now in Paris and his named Sedrik. 902 00:38:57,040 --> 00:38:58,640 Speaker 2: And getting the book back. 903 00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:00,399 Speaker 1: I think I thought of him straight away because he's 904 00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:01,920 Speaker 1: somebody I used to go back and see back and 905 00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:04,879 Speaker 1: forth on the streets, and he was always surprised when 906 00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:07,319 Speaker 1: I turn back up to see him again, because his 907 00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:09,479 Speaker 1: mind was blown that I'd get a train to Paris 908 00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:11,560 Speaker 1: across from London and I had friends there as well, 909 00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:13,400 Speaker 1: but I'd come and see him and it was like 910 00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:16,600 Speaker 1: it was beautiful because whenever we spent time together, it 911 00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:18,720 Speaker 1: reminded me of how important it is to be aware 912 00:39:19,719 --> 00:39:21,399 Speaker 1: that you could make a new best friend at any 913 00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:24,000 Speaker 1: point in your life. And that's someone He taught me 914 00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:26,440 Speaker 1: a lot, because even though I'd started this journey, and 915 00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:28,680 Speaker 1: even though I'd been going out and meeting people, I 916 00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:31,719 Speaker 1: think I was probably still looking at those early interactions 917 00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:34,640 Speaker 1: as like helper and someone who needs to be helped. 918 00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:37,359 Speaker 1: He was the first person I really met who just 919 00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:40,520 Speaker 1: like we became buds, like real good friends, and we 920 00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:43,279 Speaker 1: met on like lots of levels and yeah, he's someone 921 00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:46,560 Speaker 1: unfortunately who is not with us anymore. He passed away, 922 00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:48,840 Speaker 1: and I dedicated the book to him because it was 923 00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:51,479 Speaker 1: you know, I mean, whatever your belief system and whatever 924 00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:53,839 Speaker 1: you want, I just know I sort of can hear 925 00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:57,520 Speaker 1: his chuckle and his kind of like I can imagine 926 00:39:57,520 --> 00:39:59,600 Speaker 1: the conversation would have if I brought him this book 927 00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:00,319 Speaker 1: and showed him. 928 00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:02,040 Speaker 2: That he's in it, and I know he'd be really happy. 929 00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:04,279 Speaker 1: So, you know, that's the kind of interaction that like, 930 00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:08,120 Speaker 1: he always reminds me that with every new person I meet, 931 00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:10,400 Speaker 1: it could be someone who's your best friend and who 932 00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:12,480 Speaker 1: you're really going to get on with. It's not about 933 00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:14,560 Speaker 1: helping quote unquote just helping people. 934 00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:17,680 Speaker 2: It's about like connecting. It's always been about connection for 935 00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:18,680 Speaker 2: me since him. 936 00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:20,919 Speaker 3: I cried when I read that he passed away. 937 00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:22,120 Speaker 4: I was so devastated. 938 00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:26,520 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it was really tough for some people, I see. 939 00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:30,279 Speaker 1: And it's important to include that in there, because it's 940 00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:33,319 Speaker 1: estimate that about nine hundred and sixty people died on 941 00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:35,480 Speaker 1: the streets last year in the UK in twenty twenty, 942 00:40:35,680 --> 00:40:37,680 Speaker 1: and actually I think the three to five percent of 943 00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:42,319 Speaker 1: that only a county was coronavirus related. The elephant in 944 00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:44,400 Speaker 1: the room that I'd like to address here, which I 945 00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:47,960 Speaker 1: think is substance misused and drugs and alcohol that surrounds 946 00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:51,960 Speaker 1: zonnessness like it is I know, from the outside, like 947 00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:54,880 Speaker 1: really difficult to understand, and some of these behaviors I know, 948 00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:57,760 Speaker 1: like being really honest, I know it can look pretty 949 00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:00,560 Speaker 1: ugly from the outside, and I I would like to 950 00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:03,000 Speaker 1: say that, like, whatever your stance on all of this stuff, 951 00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:06,360 Speaker 1: like the people that I see, to address that quickly, 952 00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:08,400 Speaker 1: Like it's not recreational drug use. 953 00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:10,000 Speaker 2: People aren't having a good time, people. 954 00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:13,920 Speaker 1: Aren't aren't using to go out and party. It's always 955 00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:16,640 Speaker 1: like masking or to cope with something. 956 00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:17,080 Speaker 2: Either. 957 00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:19,280 Speaker 1: The surroundings are being there a lot of the time, 958 00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:21,640 Speaker 1: until you're out on the street and you're trying to 959 00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:25,200 Speaker 1: get to sleep onto some cold railway bridge at at 960 00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:27,640 Speaker 1: whatever time in the morning and someone passes you something. 961 00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:29,279 Speaker 1: I mean, I'd like to also think, you know, what 962 00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:31,480 Speaker 1: would you do in that situation. But the point I 963 00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:35,400 Speaker 1: want to make is, whatever people's stance on, say homelessness 964 00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:37,239 Speaker 1: as a whole, I think we can all agree that 965 00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:40,320 Speaker 1: it shouldn't be normal to see this many people on 966 00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:43,239 Speaker 1: the street, and to a point earlier, like you know, 967 00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:45,040 Speaker 1: to live in a city where people are dying on 968 00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:48,040 Speaker 1: the street each year, people who are so far removed 969 00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:51,000 Speaker 1: from this issue and maybe live with such effluence. Surely, 970 00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:53,719 Speaker 1: even in that situation, if you bring some friends to 971 00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:56,239 Speaker 1: a city to show them around Sydney or London or 972 00:41:56,280 --> 00:41:59,840 Speaker 1: wherever you live, you'd probably prefer like for their to 973 00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:04,400 Speaker 1: not be visibly people directly suffering in front of you. 974 00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:06,960 Speaker 1: So I just think any way you approach this, I 975 00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:09,040 Speaker 1: think we can all agree that we don't feel like 976 00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:12,080 Speaker 1: it's okay to or it shouldn't be normal to see 977 00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:14,680 Speaker 1: this stuff and to leave so many people sometimes not 978 00:42:14,719 --> 00:42:16,880 Speaker 1: making it through the winter. So I just I like 979 00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:19,880 Speaker 1: to talk about this stuff and usually put positive like 980 00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:22,920 Speaker 1: which is I know it's difficult and with someone like 981 00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:25,600 Speaker 1: Sedriek for me in the book, it's really hard to 982 00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:27,600 Speaker 1: process someone like. 983 00:42:27,560 --> 00:42:29,319 Speaker 2: That who could be with us now. 984 00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:32,399 Speaker 1: But it spurs me on to keep doing what I'm 985 00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:36,000 Speaker 1: doing and realize that, like, there's so much more we 986 00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:38,279 Speaker 1: can do, but it will take more. I think more 987 00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:42,120 Speaker 1: action on a street level, and I think through kindness 988 00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:45,359 Speaker 1: and through positivity and through telling stories in this human way. 989 00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:47,759 Speaker 1: I never point the finger in the work that I'm doing. 990 00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:50,120 Speaker 1: This isn't about saying we should feel guilty and do more. 991 00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:52,440 Speaker 1: It's about finding the things you really love to do 992 00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:55,560 Speaker 1: and trying to maybe provide that for people you know 993 00:42:55,760 --> 00:43:00,000 Speaker 1: in your surroundings, in your community where you live. And honestly, 994 00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:03,440 Speaker 1: for me, this isn't random acts of kindness. Like I 995 00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:06,440 Speaker 1: don't believe it's random to be kind to someone. I 996 00:43:06,520 --> 00:43:09,279 Speaker 1: believe it's like part of who we are. And I 997 00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:11,799 Speaker 1: think that's also an awesome concept to go out and 998 00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:15,239 Speaker 1: be the whatever kindness looks like to you. But for me, 999 00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:18,160 Speaker 1: do something nothings like these are four words that represent 1000 00:43:18,239 --> 00:43:20,279 Speaker 1: this to me. But this is just what we all 1001 00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:22,240 Speaker 1: do on a day to day basis. It's just providing 1002 00:43:22,239 --> 00:43:24,120 Speaker 1: it a little bit more for people who need it. 1003 00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:25,560 Speaker 4: Oh, that's so beautiful. 1004 00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:27,920 Speaker 3: I love that idea that it's not random, it should 1005 00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:29,719 Speaker 3: just be kindness in all directions. 1006 00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:34,719 Speaker 1: Or yeah, I mean come on, yeah, Like I need 1007 00:43:34,719 --> 00:43:36,719 Speaker 1: that too as well. Like honestly, like when I'm having 1008 00:43:36,719 --> 00:43:38,640 Speaker 1: a bad day, I'm sure you can relate to this, right. 1009 00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:41,759 Speaker 1: You must have had that moment before where you're just 1010 00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:44,959 Speaker 1: like in your own head, in your own bubble, You're 1011 00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:48,920 Speaker 1: in the tunnel vision, like I'm annoyed about something and 1012 00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:52,640 Speaker 1: I'm like sort of scraping through this day and someone 1013 00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:55,240 Speaker 1: does something for you and it's not maybe as obvious 1014 00:43:55,280 --> 00:43:57,320 Speaker 1: as someone like buying a coffee in the queue in 1015 00:43:57,360 --> 00:43:58,920 Speaker 1: front of you and it being like kind of this, 1016 00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:01,920 Speaker 1: it's more just holding the door open smile, letting you 1017 00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:04,000 Speaker 1: someone on the bus like just like giving you their 1018 00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:05,919 Speaker 1: eyes and like smiling and like nod in their head 1019 00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:07,960 Speaker 1: something like that. It just wakes you up from your 1020 00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:12,759 Speaker 1: own kind of like bullshit. Sometimes think it's just it's 1021 00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:15,839 Speaker 1: just like it's healthy, like we need that, all of us. 1022 00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:18,640 Speaker 3: One of my best circuit breakers when I'm just having 1023 00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:20,640 Speaker 3: a shit time and usually for no reason I'm just 1024 00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:23,279 Speaker 3: in my own head about something, is I try and 1025 00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:25,960 Speaker 3: give someone a compliment, like find something that I like 1026 00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:29,520 Speaker 3: about what their lipstick is or whatever. And you cannot 1027 00:44:29,640 --> 00:44:30,560 Speaker 3: stay in a bad mood. 1028 00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:31,760 Speaker 4: When you give. 1029 00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:35,880 Speaker 3: Someone an unsolicited compliment and watch the change in their demeanor, 1030 00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:38,759 Speaker 3: it's actually the best possible thing you could do. It's 1031 00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:41,319 Speaker 3: almost selfish, like I do it for myself to get 1032 00:44:41,320 --> 00:44:43,640 Speaker 3: out of a bad mood. It takes so little to 1033 00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:46,520 Speaker 3: make someone's day, and I think, you know, even if 1034 00:44:46,520 --> 00:44:48,719 Speaker 3: you can't necessarily sit down and give them a haircut, 1035 00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:51,480 Speaker 3: you can make someone's day with a smile or a conversation. 1036 00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:54,800 Speaker 3: What are your big visions for what's next for this movement, 1037 00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:57,640 Speaker 3: but more importantly for people listening who want to get 1038 00:44:57,640 --> 00:44:59,919 Speaker 3: on board or to help support you in some way. 1039 00:45:00,160 --> 00:45:02,160 Speaker 3: Or bring to do something for nothing movement, you know 1040 00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:05,040 Speaker 3: to the Australia Insures again, what are some of the 1041 00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:06,040 Speaker 3: ways we can support you? 1042 00:45:06,200 --> 00:45:07,839 Speaker 1: You know, it is a social movement in the sense 1043 00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:09,640 Speaker 1: that like this isn't a charity or not for profit, 1044 00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:12,399 Speaker 1: Like this isn't about coming to me to like then 1045 00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:15,279 Speaker 1: work at you know, like volunteer in your community. There's 1046 00:45:15,280 --> 00:45:17,000 Speaker 1: no like what I mean is there's no structure in 1047 00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:19,439 Speaker 1: some ways. I mean, based on this podcast and talking 1048 00:45:19,480 --> 00:45:21,240 Speaker 1: about my life, maybe that makes a lot of sense. 1049 00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:24,720 Speaker 1: But it's an open space for It's an open space 1050 00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:26,680 Speaker 1: for people to be able to use this however you want. 1051 00:45:26,680 --> 00:45:29,680 Speaker 1: The hashtag exists to highlight people in your community who 1052 00:45:29,680 --> 00:45:32,360 Speaker 1: are doing something cool and talking about it to inspire others. 1053 00:45:32,520 --> 00:45:34,360 Speaker 1: It might be yourself. It might be the skills that 1054 00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:36,680 Speaker 1: you have, like tangible skills of course, like I know 1055 00:45:37,200 --> 00:45:39,000 Speaker 1: for me, Wow, a heck, isn't that a great way? 1056 00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:41,040 Speaker 2: Isn't it lucky? Like You've got this really tangible skill? 1057 00:45:41,080 --> 00:45:44,400 Speaker 1: But no, it's everything's a vehicle for this connection, this 1058 00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:46,799 Speaker 1: conversation that I've spoken about. I mean, yeah, okay, we've 1059 00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:51,680 Speaker 1: had yoga teachers, volunteer and rehabilitation centers, young people, students 1060 00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:53,759 Speaker 1: going to have lunch with senior citizens who don't have 1061 00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:55,359 Speaker 1: any family to come in and have lunch with them, 1062 00:45:55,360 --> 00:45:57,480 Speaker 1: all that kind of thing. But the thing is it's 1063 00:45:57,560 --> 00:46:00,520 Speaker 1: very important to like, you know, all these things. Whatever 1064 00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:03,120 Speaker 1: it is, Like, I could talk about an organization in 1065 00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:05,640 Speaker 1: Sydney Pass It On Clothing. My friend Chris wag who 1066 00:46:05,680 --> 00:46:09,360 Speaker 1: set up it's amazing. Basically it's transpired from him and 1067 00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:12,440 Speaker 1: his girlfriend looking at their wardrobe of clothes that they 1068 00:46:12,520 --> 00:46:15,479 Speaker 1: didn't wear anymore, and it's like to go and drop 1069 00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:19,239 Speaker 1: off clothes to like up shop and like be able 1070 00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:21,480 Speaker 1: to like put it outside. But that's great, but it's 1071 00:46:21,480 --> 00:46:23,640 Speaker 1: not all that personal. So he decided to set up 1072 00:46:23,680 --> 00:46:26,720 Speaker 1: these rails around Sydney where it started as one Thursday 1073 00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:30,160 Speaker 1: night and four years later they've become this organization where 1074 00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:33,359 Speaker 1: they have haircuts, now they provide food. They always set 1075 00:46:33,440 --> 00:46:35,280 Speaker 1: up in some mine's place in the middle of Sydney 1076 00:46:35,280 --> 00:46:35,920 Speaker 1: and people. 1077 00:46:35,680 --> 00:46:37,160 Speaker 2: Know that they're week in, week out. 1078 00:46:37,400 --> 00:46:41,360 Speaker 1: They've got so many people involved because now they know 1079 00:46:42,160 --> 00:46:44,960 Speaker 1: after having that conversation and not only giving people clothes, 1080 00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:47,839 Speaker 1: but showing them the mirror and making sure they're really 1081 00:46:47,880 --> 00:46:50,120 Speaker 1: fixed up and looking good with like decent clothes that 1082 00:46:50,360 --> 00:46:52,880 Speaker 1: get they get these donations from really really nice places, 1083 00:46:52,920 --> 00:46:55,680 Speaker 1: and it's like the conversations they have now they know 1084 00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:57,600 Speaker 1: how to help people more. They've got to know people. 1085 00:46:57,600 --> 00:47:00,000 Speaker 1: They're more invested in their community than they were before. 1086 00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:02,719 Speaker 1: And rather than be on the outside looking in, it's 1087 00:47:02,760 --> 00:47:04,759 Speaker 1: just not finding ways where you go, Like you can 1088 00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:07,120 Speaker 1: become active in your community. You can become someone who 1089 00:47:07,400 --> 00:47:10,759 Speaker 1: is aware of people. And honestly, the change, the personal 1090 00:47:10,840 --> 00:47:13,440 Speaker 1: change that comes with that, as you said, kind of 1091 00:47:13,560 --> 00:47:15,799 Speaker 1: is selfish in aware and it's cool to recognize that, 1092 00:47:16,040 --> 00:47:18,520 Speaker 1: and it's got bad connotation, but it's not. It's like 1093 00:47:18,920 --> 00:47:21,160 Speaker 1: you could say to most people, like fast forward a 1094 00:47:21,200 --> 00:47:26,040 Speaker 1: few years time and you could know like more people 1095 00:47:26,239 --> 00:47:29,480 Speaker 1: in these busy cities we live in, like more people 1096 00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:33,000 Speaker 1: around you and what they need, and they know what 1097 00:47:33,080 --> 00:47:35,440 Speaker 1: you need. It's just taking it back a bit to 1098 00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:37,040 Speaker 1: like how we used to live before, we used to 1099 00:47:37,080 --> 00:47:39,240 Speaker 1: live in smaller communities. Well, we did all have a wrong, 1100 00:47:39,280 --> 00:47:42,160 Speaker 1: we did all know about each other's problems. So you know, 1101 00:47:42,440 --> 00:47:46,560 Speaker 1: we first forwarded to like these places where we've got 1102 00:47:46,680 --> 00:47:51,000 Speaker 1: so much kind of like access to everything, and more 1103 00:47:51,040 --> 00:47:52,839 Speaker 1: than anything, we're so distracted, and I think we need 1104 00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:55,359 Speaker 1: to just reel it in and realize that we can 1105 00:47:55,400 --> 00:47:57,960 Speaker 1: all become more part of each other's lives. And I 1106 00:47:57,960 --> 00:48:00,800 Speaker 1: think finding your version of that can look like many things. 1107 00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:03,040 Speaker 1: I often say to people, write down three things you 1108 00:48:03,080 --> 00:48:05,799 Speaker 1: really love and that you enjoy, and then next to that, 1109 00:48:05,920 --> 00:48:09,239 Speaker 1: write down parallel, like three areas that you like to 1110 00:48:09,320 --> 00:48:11,640 Speaker 1: change in this world, maybe directing your community, and try 1111 00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:13,720 Speaker 1: and join the dots and keep looking at them until 1112 00:48:13,719 --> 00:48:13,920 Speaker 1: you do. 1113 00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:15,919 Speaker 4: Oh, that's so beautiful. 1114 00:48:16,040 --> 00:48:19,280 Speaker 3: I kind of describe finding your yay as that as well, 1115 00:48:19,320 --> 00:48:21,280 Speaker 3: like writing down the things that give you that feeling 1116 00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:23,000 Speaker 3: that you had when you were a little kid where 1117 00:48:23,040 --> 00:48:24,879 Speaker 3: you just couldn't help but say the word ya because 1118 00:48:24,880 --> 00:48:28,280 Speaker 3: it makes you so excited. And we are really distracted. 1119 00:48:28,320 --> 00:48:32,359 Speaker 3: And I think we do also think that looking after ourselves, 1120 00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:34,799 Speaker 3: particularly when you're in a job like yours, which is 1121 00:48:35,040 --> 00:48:40,600 Speaker 3: very giving and altruistic, that then material things like you know, 1122 00:48:41,360 --> 00:48:45,160 Speaker 3: massage or a bath or rest seem very vacuous. And 1123 00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:48,839 Speaker 3: I can imagine you would feel guilty watching Netflix rather 1124 00:48:48,880 --> 00:48:51,840 Speaker 3: than going out and transforming someone's life, because you do 1125 00:48:51,920 --> 00:48:53,719 Speaker 3: have the opportunity to do the latter, So why would 1126 00:48:53,719 --> 00:48:56,520 Speaker 3: you kind of waste time doing the former. But that's 1127 00:48:56,520 --> 00:48:59,840 Speaker 3: why this last section is important and maybe my f 1128 00:49:00,400 --> 00:49:03,960 Speaker 3: it's called playta and it's the things that we all 1129 00:49:04,040 --> 00:49:08,600 Speaker 3: do that aren't related to our job and completely separate 1130 00:49:08,600 --> 00:49:11,480 Speaker 3: from our vocation, but that make you forget what time 1131 00:49:11,520 --> 00:49:14,279 Speaker 3: it is that are purely for your joy, because I 1132 00:49:14,280 --> 00:49:17,080 Speaker 3: don't think you could fill up anyone else's cup if 1133 00:49:17,120 --> 00:49:20,080 Speaker 3: you aren't, you know, filling up your own in some way. 1134 00:49:20,239 --> 00:49:21,880 Speaker 3: So you mentioned music is one of them. Are there 1135 00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:25,359 Speaker 3: any other things that you do just to find joy 1136 00:49:25,440 --> 00:49:26,160 Speaker 3: in between? 1137 00:49:26,280 --> 00:49:29,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, honestly, And I love the concept and the reason why, 1138 00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:31,480 Speaker 1: you know, obviously in that new podcast, it's like it's 1139 00:49:31,480 --> 00:49:33,880 Speaker 1: so important to remember that curiosity and that feeling that 1140 00:49:34,600 --> 00:49:37,080 Speaker 1: gave you that as a kid, and like, I think 1141 00:49:37,440 --> 00:49:40,680 Speaker 1: without that just on that point, like I've had to learn, 1142 00:49:41,120 --> 00:49:42,879 Speaker 1: especially more so the last couple of years, I've got 1143 00:49:42,880 --> 00:49:43,680 Speaker 1: so much better at that. 1144 00:49:43,760 --> 00:49:46,239 Speaker 2: I can't go out and be available to people unless I. 1145 00:49:46,200 --> 00:49:49,080 Speaker 1: Have that moment you're talking about, which is forgetting the 1146 00:49:49,120 --> 00:49:52,440 Speaker 1: concept of time and being so kind of like, yeah, 1147 00:49:52,480 --> 00:49:53,760 Speaker 1: just filling up your cup. 1148 00:49:53,560 --> 00:49:53,960 Speaker 2: In that way. 1149 00:49:54,000 --> 00:49:55,560 Speaker 1: And for me it is music and it is like 1150 00:49:55,760 --> 00:50:00,920 Speaker 1: guitar definitely also football as well is a really important 1151 00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:03,760 Speaker 1: one for me, Like I've gone through stages. It's because 1152 00:50:03,800 --> 00:50:06,520 Speaker 1: it's the best escapism. I have a really good relationship 1153 00:50:06,560 --> 00:50:09,480 Speaker 1: with I support a couple of teams here and it's 1154 00:50:09,520 --> 00:50:11,799 Speaker 1: like watching football like getting together with people and doing 1155 00:50:11,800 --> 00:50:12,360 Speaker 1: that because. 1156 00:50:12,120 --> 00:50:13,560 Speaker 2: I used to play football when I was younger. 1157 00:50:13,719 --> 00:50:15,520 Speaker 1: It reminds me of what you're talking about, which is 1158 00:50:15,520 --> 00:50:19,000 Speaker 1: that summers hot, because it was actually. 1159 00:50:18,840 --> 00:50:20,360 Speaker 2: Sometimes it is hurt in the UK this summer. 1160 00:50:20,360 --> 00:50:23,560 Speaker 1: I remember, like maybe it's nostalgia, but like hot summers 1161 00:50:23,880 --> 00:50:25,799 Speaker 1: are like going out all day and playing football with 1162 00:50:25,800 --> 00:50:27,719 Speaker 1: my mates and coming back with like grasslands and my 1163 00:50:27,760 --> 00:50:30,319 Speaker 1: trousers and like you just let yourself go. And for me, 1164 00:50:30,320 --> 00:50:32,560 Speaker 1: obviously it's different watching it, but it's like it's something 1165 00:50:32,600 --> 00:50:35,840 Speaker 1: about that's pure escapism, which is beautiful too. But honestly, 1166 00:50:36,040 --> 00:50:38,120 Speaker 1: music always is the main one. Music and and and 1167 00:50:38,560 --> 00:50:41,920 Speaker 1: and that is something that you know, whether I'm plugged 1168 00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:44,439 Speaker 1: in with an electric guitar with friends it's or whether 1169 00:50:44,480 --> 00:50:47,000 Speaker 1: I'm just at home with an acoustic it's like it's 1170 00:50:47,000 --> 00:50:49,799 Speaker 1: the one thing where I've got calm app and I 1171 00:50:49,880 --> 00:50:51,520 Speaker 1: meditate and I do what I can each day to 1172 00:50:51,719 --> 00:50:53,359 Speaker 1: be able to like center myself when I can. 1173 00:50:53,520 --> 00:50:54,479 Speaker 2: A lot of the times I forget. 1174 00:50:54,520 --> 00:50:56,919 Speaker 1: I don't to pretend I'm like here, like got it down, 1175 00:50:57,000 --> 00:50:59,160 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. But yeah, but it's like 1176 00:50:59,200 --> 00:51:00,839 Speaker 1: I'm trying to do those things as best i can 1177 00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:03,200 Speaker 1: each day, that morning ritual, but whatever it is in 1178 00:51:03,320 --> 00:51:03,719 Speaker 1: your week. 1179 00:51:03,960 --> 00:51:04,880 Speaker 2: For me, it's like you have. 1180 00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:07,200 Speaker 1: Music is like something where whether I'm listening to music 1181 00:51:07,239 --> 00:51:09,600 Speaker 1: or whether I'm playing, it's like I forget it or 1182 00:51:09,640 --> 00:51:13,359 Speaker 1: I just like I'm in that space. And honestly, though 1183 00:51:13,400 --> 00:51:15,640 Speaker 1: what it hasn't always been easy. I've burnt out like 1184 00:51:15,719 --> 00:51:18,480 Speaker 1: I had. Your body will tell you things if you 1185 00:51:18,520 --> 00:51:21,239 Speaker 1: don't stop and do those those things for yourself. Like 1186 00:51:21,600 --> 00:51:24,880 Speaker 1: I've had moments where I've spent so long doing the 1187 00:51:24,960 --> 00:51:27,160 Speaker 1: doing bit of this and going out and thinking that 1188 00:51:27,200 --> 00:51:30,160 Speaker 1: I can't spend any time for me, like filling up 1189 00:51:30,200 --> 00:51:33,600 Speaker 1: that cup, and my body literally stopped me, like actually 1190 00:51:33,680 --> 00:51:36,000 Speaker 1: stop me, and well, like help will stop you if 1191 00:51:36,000 --> 00:51:39,080 Speaker 1: you don't spend time like recognizing that. And I've just 1192 00:51:39,440 --> 00:51:41,400 Speaker 1: tried to get better recognizing the signals. Now you've got 1193 00:51:41,400 --> 00:51:44,600 Speaker 1: to recognize the signals and realize that it seems counterproductive 1194 00:51:44,640 --> 00:51:47,440 Speaker 1: sometimes to stop and do whatever your absolutely nothing is 1195 00:51:47,520 --> 00:51:50,080 Speaker 1: or your escape isn't it is, But it's actually the 1196 00:51:50,120 --> 00:51:53,879 Speaker 1: complete opposite, stopping for guests and like the best kind 1197 00:51:53,920 --> 00:51:55,719 Speaker 1: of guests so you can get back on the road 1198 00:51:55,960 --> 00:51:56,319 Speaker 1: and do. 1199 00:51:56,239 --> 00:51:57,360 Speaker 4: Your thing totally. 1200 00:51:57,480 --> 00:51:59,680 Speaker 3: I think even if your body didn't stop you, like 1201 00:51:59,719 --> 00:52:02,160 Speaker 3: when I'm not here, even if you love your job, 1202 00:52:02,200 --> 00:52:04,000 Speaker 3: you're not here to just work and die like that 1203 00:52:04,040 --> 00:52:06,320 Speaker 3: would be just such a gross waste of this beautiful 1204 00:52:06,320 --> 00:52:10,040 Speaker 3: life and leisure and play has always been part of 1205 00:52:10,560 --> 00:52:13,120 Speaker 3: what life is all about. But also on the wellness front, 1206 00:52:13,160 --> 00:52:15,880 Speaker 3: if you don't make time for wellness, the quote that 1207 00:52:15,920 --> 00:52:17,640 Speaker 3: I love here is if you don't make time for wellness, 1208 00:52:17,640 --> 00:52:19,720 Speaker 3: your body will force you to make time for illness. 1209 00:52:20,239 --> 00:52:24,799 Speaker 3: And that's one that I'm always like, oh my gosh, I. 1210 00:52:24,760 --> 00:52:27,879 Speaker 1: Know, right, I know, and you know hopefully from that 1211 00:52:27,960 --> 00:52:30,600 Speaker 1: like you're right, I immediately get the pang of like, yeah, 1212 00:52:30,760 --> 00:52:33,040 Speaker 1: it's okay to almost be like it is an urgent 1213 00:52:33,320 --> 00:52:37,040 Speaker 1: concept because don't let that be. I know, there's some 1214 00:52:37,120 --> 00:52:39,239 Speaker 1: things we can't control in our life, but like, do 1215 00:52:39,320 --> 00:52:42,160 Speaker 1: the best you can to, like to work out your 1216 00:52:42,160 --> 00:52:44,000 Speaker 1: life before you get there, like we do. We do 1217 00:52:44,120 --> 00:52:46,160 Speaker 1: have more time and week I know we're up against it, 1218 00:52:46,360 --> 00:52:49,400 Speaker 1: Like I know, like it's not always easy to like 1219 00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:52,200 Speaker 1: to feel like you have those moments. But I think 1220 00:52:53,239 --> 00:52:55,600 Speaker 1: when you stop, and from my own experience, when I've 1221 00:52:55,760 --> 00:52:57,640 Speaker 1: ground to a hold and then I have to take 1222 00:52:57,640 --> 00:53:01,040 Speaker 1: a week, you realize that everything works out like eventually, 1223 00:53:01,120 --> 00:53:03,560 Speaker 1: like I try and work a lot, and I really 1224 00:53:03,640 --> 00:53:06,520 Speaker 1: enjoy the work I do, But sometimes don't you feel 1225 00:53:06,520 --> 00:53:09,880 Speaker 1: now we're some in contact with every bleap of our phone. 1226 00:53:10,680 --> 00:53:13,839 Speaker 1: We weren't supposed to always be this available, Like, we 1227 00:53:13,840 --> 00:53:18,320 Speaker 1: weren't supposed to always have had like not a moment 1228 00:53:18,560 --> 00:53:20,759 Speaker 1: to ourselves to like feel like we're not getting back 1229 00:53:20,800 --> 00:53:25,320 Speaker 1: to someone. So it's like these things are really new concepts. Honestly, 1230 00:53:25,719 --> 00:53:27,279 Speaker 1: when you get to nature and you put your phone 1231 00:53:27,320 --> 00:53:29,360 Speaker 1: down for a bit or whatever version it is of you, 1232 00:53:29,480 --> 00:53:32,960 Speaker 1: it's just like I just know that I'm immediately hit 1233 00:53:33,000 --> 00:53:35,160 Speaker 1: with these troops where I'm just like, of course, no 1234 00:53:35,280 --> 00:53:38,120 Speaker 1: wonder you feel stressed. I wonder if you feel tired. 1235 00:53:38,160 --> 00:53:40,200 Speaker 1: You know, you just you just needed a day off, 1236 00:53:40,239 --> 00:53:41,319 Speaker 1: you needed a few days off. 1237 00:53:41,480 --> 00:53:44,040 Speaker 3: I literally just came back last week from a week 1238 00:53:44,239 --> 00:53:48,239 Speaker 3: in the Northern Territory with some indigenous elders who they 1239 00:53:48,280 --> 00:53:51,000 Speaker 3: don't have a concept or a word for time in 1240 00:53:51,160 --> 00:53:53,560 Speaker 3: Aboriginal culture, because you're just supposed to wake up at 1241 00:53:53,560 --> 00:53:57,600 Speaker 3: sunrise and go to bit at sunset. And this concept 1242 00:53:57,600 --> 00:54:00,960 Speaker 3: of scheduling is something they really try to make us surrender. 1243 00:54:01,120 --> 00:54:04,480 Speaker 3: And so we didn't have charges, so our phones died 1244 00:54:04,520 --> 00:54:07,600 Speaker 3: on the first day anyway, and we didn't need to 1245 00:54:07,640 --> 00:54:09,080 Speaker 3: know what time it was, because the sun will kind 1246 00:54:09,080 --> 00:54:11,000 Speaker 3: of tell you if it's morning or afternoon, and they 1247 00:54:11,000 --> 00:54:14,080 Speaker 3: told us where we needed to be by sunset. And 1248 00:54:14,760 --> 00:54:17,799 Speaker 3: I've actually had a really really hard time coming back 1249 00:54:17,840 --> 00:54:21,279 Speaker 3: to this, you know, kind of forced structure that we've 1250 00:54:21,320 --> 00:54:24,640 Speaker 3: imposed on ourselves. Of course, you need some in the life, 1251 00:54:24,680 --> 00:54:26,200 Speaker 3: you know, to keep up with the life that we have, 1252 00:54:26,320 --> 00:54:28,640 Speaker 3: but you realize time is really a construct, and so 1253 00:54:28,800 --> 00:54:31,839 Speaker 3: is deadlines, and so is urgency unless you're a heart 1254 00:54:31,840 --> 00:54:34,880 Speaker 3: surgeon or a paramedic, which neither of us are, so 1255 00:54:35,440 --> 00:54:37,080 Speaker 3: you know, things can wait. 1256 00:54:37,600 --> 00:54:39,279 Speaker 2: Do you feel on that first day? 1257 00:54:39,320 --> 00:54:41,560 Speaker 1: First of all, there was that anxious panic of phones 1258 00:54:41,640 --> 00:54:43,080 Speaker 1: ran out and what am I going to do? 1259 00:54:43,239 --> 00:54:45,200 Speaker 2: And then how long did it take you to go? 1260 00:54:46,800 --> 00:54:49,640 Speaker 3: Interestingly, it usually takes me a couple of days, but 1261 00:54:49,719 --> 00:54:53,440 Speaker 3: I think I was so overloaded and ready by the 1262 00:54:53,520 --> 00:54:56,040 Speaker 3: time it was inevitable, Like by the time we lost signal, 1263 00:54:56,160 --> 00:54:58,920 Speaker 3: I didn't even bother trying anymore. I just turned it off, 1264 00:54:58,920 --> 00:55:00,640 Speaker 3: I turned it onto airplane mode, and I just didn't 1265 00:55:00,640 --> 00:55:03,320 Speaker 3: look at it five days and it was such a luxury. 1266 00:55:03,960 --> 00:55:06,920 Speaker 3: But it makes me realize, Oh, it was amazing, But 1267 00:55:07,000 --> 00:55:09,239 Speaker 3: now I'm like, I don't want to be human in 1268 00:55:09,320 --> 00:55:10,320 Speaker 3: real life society. 1269 00:55:14,000 --> 00:55:16,239 Speaker 1: It's cool though, because you know you'll start doing things, 1270 00:55:16,320 --> 00:55:17,960 Speaker 1: you know you'll get back to it, but keep it. 1271 00:55:18,120 --> 00:55:19,840 Speaker 1: And I'm so glad that you have a platform to 1272 00:55:19,880 --> 00:55:23,480 Speaker 1: be able to talk about and spread that message because like, honestly, 1273 00:55:23,600 --> 00:55:25,640 Speaker 1: it's just as real and just as much as a 1274 00:55:25,680 --> 00:55:27,080 Speaker 1: reality as being in this. 1275 00:55:27,080 --> 00:55:28,239 Speaker 2: Scheduled world, you know. 1276 00:55:28,320 --> 00:55:30,879 Speaker 1: And I think that I know I feel the same 1277 00:55:30,920 --> 00:55:34,040 Speaker 1: as you, which is like I've had a few days 1278 00:55:34,040 --> 00:55:36,600 Speaker 1: off recently where I was just phone less, and I 1279 00:55:36,640 --> 00:55:38,120 Speaker 1: can think back to a time a couple of years 1280 00:55:38,120 --> 00:55:40,160 Speaker 1: ago when I was five days on a hike without 1281 00:55:40,160 --> 00:55:45,600 Speaker 1: a phone, and honestly, I literally turned into a kid again. 1282 00:55:45,840 --> 00:55:51,080 Speaker 1: I was the kind of renoticing things because when you're 1283 00:55:51,120 --> 00:55:53,440 Speaker 1: left with nothing to look at and nothing to pick 1284 00:55:53,520 --> 00:55:53,799 Speaker 1: up and. 1285 00:55:53,719 --> 00:55:56,400 Speaker 2: Stare at these screens, it's like you just do that 1286 00:55:56,480 --> 00:55:58,000 Speaker 2: child does come out, it's still there. 1287 00:55:58,040 --> 00:56:00,520 Speaker 1: And what's really beautiful about that is like we're all 1288 00:56:00,560 --> 00:56:03,719 Speaker 1: searching for that, We're all like constantly search into like 1289 00:56:04,320 --> 00:56:06,440 Speaker 1: that that freedom and that beauty, and it's in us, 1290 00:56:06,480 --> 00:56:09,040 Speaker 1: it's within us. It's just whatever you can do to 1291 00:56:09,080 --> 00:56:12,000 Speaker 1: recognize it. In fact, you know that. That is the 1292 00:56:12,040 --> 00:56:14,640 Speaker 1: one thing I would say, it's everyone should allow at 1293 00:56:14,760 --> 00:56:17,040 Speaker 1: least a few phone off days of the year, like 1294 00:56:17,320 --> 00:56:19,640 Speaker 1: maybe they're together in a few days straight, which is beautiful. 1295 00:56:19,640 --> 00:56:21,560 Speaker 1: But that's one thing that I'm sure there's a hell 1296 00:56:21,560 --> 00:56:24,360 Speaker 1: of a lot of info about that, but how incredibly 1297 00:56:24,880 --> 00:56:27,160 Speaker 1: powerful that is for your well being and bringing those 1298 00:56:27,200 --> 00:56:28,759 Speaker 1: truths back with you for the rest of the year 1299 00:56:29,360 --> 00:56:30,160 Speaker 1: so liberating. 1300 00:56:30,200 --> 00:56:31,520 Speaker 3: Now I'm like, I want to I just want to 1301 00:56:31,520 --> 00:56:32,560 Speaker 3: be a bush woman. 1302 00:56:32,760 --> 00:56:33,000 Speaker 2: Like. 1303 00:56:35,360 --> 00:56:37,479 Speaker 1: You've got a very you've got a very good energy, 1304 00:56:37,520 --> 00:56:42,520 Speaker 1: You're very good. You brought some of it back. 1305 00:56:42,800 --> 00:56:43,480 Speaker 2: I appreciate you. 1306 00:56:44,920 --> 00:56:45,120 Speaker 4: Well. 1307 00:56:45,160 --> 00:56:48,399 Speaker 3: Just to finish our second last question, three interesting things 1308 00:56:48,400 --> 00:56:51,160 Speaker 3: about you that don't normally come up in conversation, because 1309 00:56:51,160 --> 00:56:54,040 Speaker 3: I imagine you do get asked a lot of similar 1310 00:56:54,239 --> 00:56:56,480 Speaker 3: kinds of questions about the fascinating work that you do, 1311 00:56:56,560 --> 00:57:00,480 Speaker 3: but what are just some random things like favorite biscuit 1312 00:57:00,960 --> 00:57:04,560 Speaker 3: or you know, weird habits or party tricks. 1313 00:57:04,640 --> 00:57:08,480 Speaker 1: Okay, oh yeah, all right, all right, well okay, so 1314 00:57:09,080 --> 00:57:11,520 Speaker 1: I mean no, I've said biscuit. It's like very much 1315 00:57:11,560 --> 00:57:12,960 Speaker 1: in my head of like remove the one of the 1316 00:57:13,520 --> 00:57:15,160 Speaker 1: the biscuit one because I don't have that. 1317 00:57:15,239 --> 00:57:17,400 Speaker 3: But I think you're British you have to have a 1318 00:57:17,440 --> 00:57:18,160 Speaker 3: favorite biscuit. 1319 00:57:18,800 --> 00:57:20,880 Speaker 1: Honestly, maybe that's one of my facts I'm going to 1320 00:57:20,920 --> 00:57:22,800 Speaker 1: start off with, Like, here's one around the thing I 1321 00:57:22,840 --> 00:57:27,440 Speaker 1: don't like biscuits. Cup of tea and biscuits, okay, is 1322 00:57:27,480 --> 00:57:29,560 Speaker 1: not a British thing that always goes with tea and biscuits. 1323 00:57:29,600 --> 00:57:32,400 Speaker 1: The cup of tea alone is amazing, don't be you 1324 00:57:32,520 --> 00:57:34,919 Speaker 1: have to be dipping a biscuit in that. I don't 1325 00:57:34,960 --> 00:57:37,280 Speaker 1: like the way that when you dip a biscuit in 1326 00:57:37,640 --> 00:57:39,320 Speaker 1: you end up with the crumbs of the biscuit in. 1327 00:57:39,680 --> 00:57:43,320 Speaker 2: Yeah. No, like so no sugar and tea, So why 1328 00:57:43,320 --> 00:57:43,840 Speaker 2: would I be? 1329 00:57:44,240 --> 00:57:46,040 Speaker 1: Why would it be? I wouldn't be differing in a biscuit. 1330 00:57:46,080 --> 00:57:47,200 Speaker 1: So that's one interesting fact. 1331 00:57:47,560 --> 00:57:49,080 Speaker 4: What type of tea though. 1332 00:57:49,000 --> 00:57:52,440 Speaker 1: Oh tea is the Yorkshire tea ulture tea bag so 1333 00:57:52,560 --> 00:57:54,320 Speaker 1: yorksire tea bag, a little bit. 1334 00:57:54,240 --> 00:57:56,800 Speaker 4: Of oat milk, okay, oh oat. 1335 00:57:58,120 --> 00:57:59,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't do cow juice. 1336 00:58:03,440 --> 00:58:05,400 Speaker 1: A little bit of oat milk, but no, that's that's 1337 00:58:05,480 --> 00:58:07,400 Speaker 1: kind of like. But I'm not gonna lie obviously and 1338 00:58:07,440 --> 00:58:11,280 Speaker 1: say like I'm all over the vegan cake. Some someone 1339 00:58:11,280 --> 00:58:13,080 Speaker 1: told me becoming vegan was like this way of like, 1340 00:58:13,240 --> 00:58:15,680 Speaker 1: I've pretty much been hungry since becoming vegan a couple 1341 00:58:15,640 --> 00:58:18,560 Speaker 1: of years ago, and I haven't. Honestly, I said to 1342 00:58:18,560 --> 00:58:20,080 Speaker 1: my joke with my girlfriend, I'm like, I've been hungry 1343 00:58:20,080 --> 00:58:24,120 Speaker 1: ever since. But it's but it's amazing and I'm happy. 1344 00:58:24,160 --> 00:58:25,840 Speaker 1: But one thing no one tells you is that you 1345 00:58:25,840 --> 00:58:28,760 Speaker 1: can still go really mental and junk food, Like you 1346 00:58:28,800 --> 00:58:30,120 Speaker 1: can still go hardcore. 1347 00:58:30,760 --> 00:58:33,920 Speaker 2: All the cakes are still available, all the snacks still available. 1348 00:58:33,920 --> 00:58:37,120 Speaker 1: It's almost even worse. Anyway, I digress. But the one 1349 00:58:37,200 --> 00:58:39,320 Speaker 1: fun fact is talking to you in Australia. I once 1350 00:58:39,360 --> 00:58:43,440 Speaker 1: got to Australia for ten pounds shut up. Yeah, so 1351 00:58:43,760 --> 00:58:46,120 Speaker 1: I basically I Q. It was the first time I 1352 00:58:46,160 --> 00:58:49,439 Speaker 1: came over when I was twenty one and I heard 1353 00:58:49,440 --> 00:58:51,720 Speaker 1: someone over talking like in a conversation and the queue 1354 00:58:51,760 --> 00:58:54,560 Speaker 1: behind me about this sale that this travel agent's had 1355 00:58:54,560 --> 00:58:57,040 Speaker 1: on where they were like basically putting people on a 1356 00:58:57,080 --> 00:58:59,280 Speaker 1: plane to Australia for ten quick. The first thirty people 1357 00:58:59,280 --> 00:59:01,240 Speaker 1: who like went to travel agents in Bristol. 1358 00:59:01,360 --> 00:59:02,080 Speaker 2: So I went to camp. 1359 00:59:02,120 --> 00:59:04,720 Speaker 1: From that moment I left, I went and camped outside 1360 00:59:04,720 --> 00:59:07,040 Speaker 1: of this place, and I I was one of the 1361 00:59:07,040 --> 00:59:09,560 Speaker 1: first like twelve people in Q so I managed to 1362 00:59:09,560 --> 00:59:12,240 Speaker 1: get this like ten pound ticket to Australia. 1363 00:59:12,760 --> 00:59:13,800 Speaker 2: So that was pretty cool. 1364 00:59:13,880 --> 00:59:17,000 Speaker 4: Oh my gosh. 1365 00:59:15,880 --> 00:59:17,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was amazing. And it's when I came out 1366 00:59:17,760 --> 00:59:18,200 Speaker 2: first to one. 1367 00:59:18,240 --> 00:59:19,600 Speaker 1: I was there for like a year or whatever, and 1368 00:59:19,640 --> 00:59:21,760 Speaker 1: I worked around So maybe that's another good fun fact. 1369 00:59:21,840 --> 00:59:23,480 Speaker 1: I used to live in Australia in this town which 1370 00:59:23,480 --> 00:59:26,080 Speaker 1: I has to have beautiful memories of which is people 1371 00:59:26,080 --> 00:59:28,240 Speaker 1: always go oh you lived there and it's in Lismore 1372 00:59:28,280 --> 00:59:29,080 Speaker 1: in New South Wales. 1373 00:59:29,360 --> 00:59:33,280 Speaker 5: Sure yeah, yeah, yeah, everyone does that reaction and goes ah, 1374 00:59:33,800 --> 00:59:37,960 Speaker 5: I think it's the loveliest, most beautiful, awesome town and 1375 00:59:38,520 --> 00:59:40,520 Speaker 5: Nearbyn Bay and all like the hip stuff. 1376 00:59:40,600 --> 00:59:43,360 Speaker 1: Fine, that's great, but like that area of Northern Rivers 1377 00:59:43,400 --> 00:59:46,760 Speaker 1: is like so unbelievably beautiful. The little towns and the 1378 00:59:46,800 --> 00:59:48,960 Speaker 1: little markets of a weekend I have like such fond 1379 00:59:49,040 --> 00:59:50,520 Speaker 1: memories of living in Australia. 1380 00:59:50,680 --> 00:59:51,959 Speaker 2: I don't know, another fun fact. 1381 00:59:52,080 --> 00:59:53,440 Speaker 4: Maybe No, that were great. 1382 00:59:53,520 --> 00:59:56,600 Speaker 3: That was three amazing, right, Yeah, yeah. 1383 00:59:56,440 --> 00:59:59,200 Speaker 4: They were great. I lived in Lismo for a year. 1384 00:59:59,560 --> 01:00:02,120 Speaker 1: I lived, yeah, for basically whole year because a random 1385 01:00:02,200 --> 01:00:05,240 Speaker 1: it took me there because like work. I knew my 1386 01:00:05,240 --> 01:00:08,320 Speaker 1: girlfriend at the time, her sister lived nearby and lived 1387 01:00:08,320 --> 01:00:10,360 Speaker 1: in the interland between like Barron Bay and Lismore, and 1388 01:00:10,400 --> 01:00:10,680 Speaker 1: it was. 1389 01:00:10,680 --> 01:00:12,919 Speaker 2: Just like it was the place where I ended up working. 1390 01:00:12,960 --> 01:00:14,480 Speaker 1: I worked in a little cafe there and I was 1391 01:00:14,560 --> 01:00:16,200 Speaker 1: just like I honestly I was. 1392 01:00:16,240 --> 01:00:18,400 Speaker 2: It was such a beautiful time. 1393 01:00:18,520 --> 01:00:21,880 Speaker 1: I was very at one with like working and doing 1394 01:00:21,920 --> 01:00:23,440 Speaker 1: kind of like what I was doing there. But when 1395 01:00:23,440 --> 01:00:25,080 Speaker 1: I say to people there always just like find it 1396 01:00:25,120 --> 01:00:26,880 Speaker 1: funny because it's just like quite a small town. It's 1397 01:00:26,960 --> 01:00:29,600 Speaker 1: very sleepy, but like had this cafe and this record 1398 01:00:29,600 --> 01:00:32,200 Speaker 1: shop and this beautiful arts center, and yeah, I'd like 1399 01:00:32,240 --> 01:00:32,760 Speaker 1: to go back there. 1400 01:00:33,040 --> 01:00:35,080 Speaker 3: It's kind of like being like, oh, I came and 1401 01:00:35,120 --> 01:00:37,320 Speaker 3: went to Bluffborough or something like. 1402 01:00:37,400 --> 01:00:38,920 Speaker 4: It's random. 1403 01:00:39,800 --> 01:00:41,880 Speaker 2: I know, I know, but don't get me wrong. I did. 1404 01:00:41,960 --> 01:00:45,080 Speaker 1: Since since then, I've gone back and I've done Sydney 1405 01:00:45,120 --> 01:00:47,960 Speaker 1: and Melbourne, I've done, like being in most cities and 1406 01:00:48,120 --> 01:00:51,320 Speaker 1: lots of amazing beautiful Like obviously Australia is such an 1407 01:00:51,320 --> 01:00:52,800 Speaker 1: incredible place, so I've done a lot of it now, 1408 01:00:52,840 --> 01:00:54,680 Speaker 1: but like I just still think like, yeah, that's my 1409 01:00:54,680 --> 01:00:56,960 Speaker 1: place member for moved back, that's where that's well come. 1410 01:00:58,360 --> 01:01:01,280 Speaker 3: And very last question, what's your favorite quote? 1411 01:01:01,560 --> 01:01:06,160 Speaker 2: Okay, my favorite quote is Joe Stroma from The Clash, and. 1412 01:01:06,080 --> 01:01:10,280 Speaker 1: It's the punk rock means amazing manners to your fellow 1413 01:01:10,360 --> 01:01:13,560 Speaker 1: human beings. And the reason why that quote is so 1414 01:01:13,600 --> 01:01:17,120 Speaker 1: important is that for me as a punk growing up 1415 01:01:17,120 --> 01:01:21,360 Speaker 1: and that being my ethoss, it was the spiky hair 1416 01:01:21,440 --> 01:01:24,560 Speaker 1: and the Mohicans and the studs and everything that's the 1417 01:01:24,600 --> 01:01:27,040 Speaker 1: image of punk and the zips, all everything you see 1418 01:01:27,080 --> 01:01:30,120 Speaker 1: from the outside. Once the door opens and you're letting 1419 01:01:30,480 --> 01:01:33,440 Speaker 1: it just means being together and being cool to the 1420 01:01:33,440 --> 01:01:36,520 Speaker 1: people around you. And there's so many movements in history 1421 01:01:36,600 --> 01:01:39,560 Speaker 1: that have created that. But like, without that side of it, 1422 01:01:39,800 --> 01:01:41,800 Speaker 1: without people putting their arm around me, like I wouldn't 1423 01:01:41,800 --> 01:01:42,760 Speaker 1: be doing what I'm doing today. 1424 01:01:42,920 --> 01:01:43,400 Speaker 4: I love that. 1425 01:01:43,480 --> 01:01:45,520 Speaker 3: I think you are such a wonderful advocate for never 1426 01:01:45,600 --> 01:01:47,440 Speaker 3: judging anything from just what it looks like on the 1427 01:01:47,440 --> 01:01:49,800 Speaker 3: outside and making the effort to sort of peel back 1428 01:01:49,800 --> 01:01:51,760 Speaker 3: the layers and see what's underneath. 1429 01:01:52,000 --> 01:01:53,360 Speaker 2: Thank you, sir, I really appreciate you. 1430 01:01:53,440 --> 01:01:55,080 Speaker 1: It's been so nice to chat to you today, honestly, 1431 01:01:55,120 --> 01:01:56,560 Speaker 1: and like I said, like we'll have to do this 1432 01:01:56,640 --> 01:01:58,120 Speaker 1: again in the future, maybe in person. 1433 01:01:58,400 --> 01:01:59,520 Speaker 4: Yeah, thank you so much. 1434 01:01:59,600 --> 01:02:02,840 Speaker 3: You've just been absolutely wonderful and everyone should absolutely get 1435 01:02:02,880 --> 01:02:04,760 Speaker 3: a copy of Do Something for Nothing. It is out 1436 01:02:04,880 --> 01:02:07,040 Speaker 3: very soon and I'll pop a link in the show 1437 01:02:07,040 --> 01:02:07,640 Speaker 3: notes so you can. 1438 01:02:07,560 --> 01:02:08,320 Speaker 4: All grab a copy. 1439 01:02:08,440 --> 01:02:09,200 Speaker 2: Thanks so much. 1440 01:02:09,920 --> 01:02:12,400 Speaker 3: Goodness me, this one inspired me and reminded me that 1441 01:02:12,480 --> 01:02:15,480 Speaker 3: despite the challenges and suffering that exist in the world, 1442 01:02:15,840 --> 01:02:18,680 Speaker 3: there is so much love and kindness out there too. 1443 01:02:19,320 --> 01:02:22,520 Speaker 3: Please help the do Something for Nothing movement spread as 1444 01:02:22,560 --> 01:02:25,360 Speaker 3: far and wide as possible by sharing this episode and 1445 01:02:25,400 --> 01:02:29,200 Speaker 3: tagging at Joshua Coombs along with any takeaways or thoughts 1446 01:02:29,200 --> 01:02:31,840 Speaker 3: that you've had. Hugh mentioned last week that he was 1447 01:02:31,920 --> 01:02:35,040 Speaker 3: blown away by all of your messages and reflections. There 1448 01:02:35,040 --> 01:02:38,080 Speaker 3: were hundreds of them, so please keep it up. It 1449 01:02:38,240 --> 01:02:41,040 Speaker 3: means so much to our guests and to me. I'll 1450 01:02:41,080 --> 01:02:43,360 Speaker 3: pop the link to Joshua's new book in the show 1451 01:02:43,400 --> 01:02:46,080 Speaker 3: notes and highly recommend that you grab a copy for 1452 01:02:46,120 --> 01:02:49,400 Speaker 3: an uplifting read. Hope you're having an amazing week. To 1453 01:02:49,440 --> 01:02:52,440 Speaker 3: my dear Victorians, Hope you are surviving the week and 1454 01:02:52,640 --> 01:02:59,880 Speaker 3: are seizing your yeay