1 00:00:10,829 --> 00:00:11,149 Speaker 1: So much. 2 00:00:11,189 --> 00:00:15,349 Speaker 2: You're listening to a Mother and Mia podcast. Mama Mia 3 00:00:15,389 --> 00:00:18,669 Speaker 2: acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters that this 4 00:00:18,709 --> 00:00:20,789 Speaker 2: podcast is recorded on Hey. 5 00:00:20,629 --> 00:00:23,789 Speaker 3: Baby Bubble Friends producer Taylor popping back into your food 6 00:00:23,829 --> 00:00:27,229 Speaker 3: with a listening recommendation, momam is Diary of a Birth 7 00:00:27,309 --> 00:00:29,389 Speaker 3: is here and we reckon You're gonna love it if 8 00:00:29,389 --> 00:00:32,469 Speaker 3: you're unfamiliar. Host Kisenya Lukitch sits down with women from 9 00:00:32,509 --> 00:00:35,709 Speaker 3: all across Australia, all walks of life, to hear their 10 00:00:35,749 --> 00:00:40,389 Speaker 3: stories of well giving birth. And believe me, no two 11 00:00:40,429 --> 00:00:43,469 Speaker 3: stories are the same. They're so good and we have 12 00:00:43,549 --> 00:00:45,789 Speaker 3: to share them with you here too, So take a listen. 13 00:00:45,869 --> 00:00:46,789 Speaker 3: We hope you enjoy. 14 00:00:50,589 --> 00:00:54,549 Speaker 4: Hi. I'm Cassenu Lukisch and this is Diary of a Birth. 15 00:00:55,269 --> 00:01:00,189 Speaker 4: We all know that motherhood changes you physically, mentally, even 16 00:01:00,229 --> 00:01:03,709 Speaker 4: the chemical makeup of our brain. Today's mum had a 17 00:01:03,789 --> 00:01:07,309 Speaker 4: traumatic first birth, but when she felt pregnant with her 18 00:01:07,349 --> 00:01:11,309 Speaker 4: second five years later, she was determined to do it 19 00:01:11,349 --> 00:01:12,389 Speaker 4: on her own terms. 20 00:01:14,309 --> 00:01:16,229 Speaker 2: I wanted to make the choice to try and do 21 00:01:16,309 --> 00:01:19,349 Speaker 2: things differently, and I really wanted to have a vaginal birth, 22 00:01:19,389 --> 00:01:22,189 Speaker 2: so I opted for what's called a vback of vaginal 23 00:01:22,229 --> 00:01:23,829 Speaker 2: birth after cesarean and. 24 00:01:23,869 --> 00:01:27,869 Speaker 4: What happened next was a transformative experience that led to 25 00:01:27,949 --> 00:01:32,189 Speaker 4: a drastic career change in a piece and a beautiful story. 26 00:01:32,629 --> 00:01:36,589 Speaker 2: So let's meet today's mum. Hi, my name's Ricky Lee Kalaia, 27 00:01:36,949 --> 00:01:39,589 Speaker 2: and this is the story of my birth with Lily. 28 00:01:43,629 --> 00:01:47,229 Speaker 1: Obviously we know each other, but I've always really loved 29 00:01:47,389 --> 00:01:51,589 Speaker 1: your story because it's just a really positive one. So 30 00:01:51,669 --> 00:01:54,989 Speaker 1: let's sort of start with what life was like before 31 00:01:55,309 --> 00:01:56,549 Speaker 1: you felt pregnant with Lily. 32 00:01:56,909 --> 00:01:58,989 Speaker 2: You know, before I felt pregnant with Lily, she was 33 00:01:59,109 --> 00:02:03,229 Speaker 2: definitely my surprise baby. I had a almost five year 34 00:02:03,269 --> 00:02:06,429 Speaker 2: old at the time to a previous relationship, so I 35 00:02:06,549 --> 00:02:10,229 Speaker 2: kind of was ready to, you know, embark on my career. 36 00:02:10,669 --> 00:02:13,629 Speaker 2: He was about to start school, and life was good. 37 00:02:13,669 --> 00:02:16,349 Speaker 2: It was busy, but you know, when I found out 38 00:02:16,349 --> 00:02:18,429 Speaker 2: that I was pregnant with Lily, it was definitely a surprise, 39 00:02:18,709 --> 00:02:23,629 Speaker 2: particularly because I'd had quite a different birth experience with Henry. 40 00:02:24,069 --> 00:02:26,069 Speaker 2: I hadn't really put on the radar that I was 41 00:02:26,109 --> 00:02:29,029 Speaker 2: going to have more children. To be honest, it wasn't 42 00:02:29,149 --> 00:02:31,229 Speaker 2: off the cards, but it certainly wasn't something that was 43 00:02:31,229 --> 00:02:32,149 Speaker 2: a point of discussion. 44 00:02:32,629 --> 00:02:36,029 Speaker 1: So tell us a little bit about your birth with Henry, 45 00:02:36,069 --> 00:02:38,349 Speaker 1: because I know that that was really difficult for you. 46 00:02:38,669 --> 00:02:41,669 Speaker 2: Yeah, look, it was just really unexpected. The pregnancy itself 47 00:02:41,749 --> 00:02:43,989 Speaker 2: was going really well, but I got to about twenty 48 00:02:44,029 --> 00:02:47,309 Speaker 2: eight weeks and my waters broke. So it was more 49 00:02:47,429 --> 00:02:51,589 Speaker 2: that I wasn't prepared for anything unexpected and it turned 50 00:02:51,629 --> 00:02:54,149 Speaker 2: into an emergency cesarian and I had him at twenty 51 00:02:54,189 --> 00:02:57,629 Speaker 2: eight weeks and we experienced, you know, Niku not being 52 00:02:57,629 --> 00:03:00,309 Speaker 2: able to bring him home from the hospital, so I 53 00:03:00,349 --> 00:03:02,349 Speaker 2: spent you know, a couple of months of going to 54 00:03:02,429 --> 00:03:05,829 Speaker 2: and from the hospital to see him. It was confronting 55 00:03:05,869 --> 00:03:08,829 Speaker 2: at the time, but I look at it that everything 56 00:03:08,869 --> 00:03:11,309 Speaker 2: happens for a reason. I'm one of the very blessed 57 00:03:11,349 --> 00:03:14,709 Speaker 2: people that had an incredibly healthy, strong boy. He's now thirteen. 58 00:03:15,189 --> 00:03:17,869 Speaker 2: I do see it as not a blessing, but everything 59 00:03:17,909 --> 00:03:20,149 Speaker 2: happens for a reason. It was tough at the time, 60 00:03:20,229 --> 00:03:22,789 Speaker 2: but we did get through it. But it definitely did 61 00:03:23,029 --> 00:03:26,589 Speaker 2: alter I guess the want to have more children after it. 62 00:03:26,749 --> 00:03:29,589 Speaker 2: You know, it takes time to process and to wonder 63 00:03:29,629 --> 00:03:31,909 Speaker 2: if that's going to happen again, and that anxiety that 64 00:03:31,989 --> 00:03:34,509 Speaker 2: carries you if you're ever thinking about having more children. 65 00:03:34,829 --> 00:03:38,869 Speaker 1: So it was a pretty traumatic berth with Henry because 66 00:03:38,909 --> 00:03:40,349 Speaker 1: he was so early. 67 00:03:40,589 --> 00:03:44,309 Speaker 2: So early, so early, we had to consider injections to 68 00:03:44,349 --> 00:03:46,709 Speaker 2: speed up the health of his lungs. They explained that 69 00:03:46,749 --> 00:03:49,029 Speaker 2: he is very likely to not be breathing when he 70 00:03:49,109 --> 00:03:51,669 Speaker 2: comes out, that I wouldn't be able to hold him, 71 00:03:51,789 --> 00:03:54,949 Speaker 2: that I would not be able to see him straight away. 72 00:03:54,949 --> 00:03:57,509 Speaker 2: Obviously I would have been coming back from post op. 73 00:03:57,989 --> 00:04:00,389 Speaker 2: We also found out the next day that we nearly 74 00:04:00,389 --> 00:04:02,949 Speaker 2: lost him on the first night as well. So you know, 75 00:04:02,989 --> 00:04:05,949 Speaker 2: there were a lot of really contributing factors to the 76 00:04:05,989 --> 00:04:08,669 Speaker 2: stress of of that time. Had a lot of support 77 00:04:08,709 --> 00:04:11,189 Speaker 2: around me during that and I was one of the 78 00:04:11,189 --> 00:04:12,909 Speaker 2: first out of all of my friends to have children 79 00:04:12,949 --> 00:04:15,269 Speaker 2: at that time too, so a lot of people didn't 80 00:04:15,269 --> 00:04:17,789 Speaker 2: really know what I was going through, but they were 81 00:04:17,829 --> 00:04:20,069 Speaker 2: all there for me. But yeah, it was a really 82 00:04:20,109 --> 00:04:20,749 Speaker 2: intense time. 83 00:04:20,989 --> 00:04:25,229 Speaker 1: Okay, so you had Henry. Henry is four years old, 84 00:04:25,269 --> 00:04:29,829 Speaker 1: You're in a new relationship, and you fell pregnant. What's 85 00:04:29,869 --> 00:04:30,549 Speaker 1: your first thought. 86 00:04:30,789 --> 00:04:33,069 Speaker 2: I'll be honest, I cried in the bathroom. You know, 87 00:04:33,149 --> 00:04:36,189 Speaker 2: we weren't quite prepared to have a little one. Again. 88 00:04:36,469 --> 00:04:37,909 Speaker 2: Very blessed and I know that there's a lot of 89 00:04:37,909 --> 00:04:40,669 Speaker 2: people out there who go through a huge amount of 90 00:04:40,669 --> 00:04:43,189 Speaker 2: effort and what their body goes through with IBF and 91 00:04:43,229 --> 00:04:46,229 Speaker 2: difficulties falling pregnant, But in my instance, I wasn't prepared 92 00:04:46,349 --> 00:04:49,189 Speaker 2: to have another one at that point, and obviously I 93 00:04:49,269 --> 00:04:51,349 Speaker 2: knew I wanted to keep the pregnancy, but at the 94 00:04:51,349 --> 00:04:53,709 Speaker 2: same time, it was coming to terms with how this 95 00:04:53,789 --> 00:04:56,669 Speaker 2: pregnancy is going to look. What if this complication is 96 00:04:56,749 --> 00:04:58,349 Speaker 2: like the last one. So it just brought up a 97 00:04:58,389 --> 00:05:00,469 Speaker 2: lot of questions for me. There wasn't a question of 98 00:05:00,509 --> 00:05:03,069 Speaker 2: not continuing the pregnancy. It was just adjusting to the 99 00:05:03,109 --> 00:05:06,309 Speaker 2: fact that we were having a pregnancy without planning it. 100 00:05:06,429 --> 00:05:08,349 Speaker 1: And a bit of fear from you as well. 101 00:05:08,549 --> 00:05:11,549 Speaker 2: Absolutely. I mean it's been almost five years between, or 102 00:05:11,549 --> 00:05:13,629 Speaker 2: four and a half years between, but you still carry 103 00:05:13,629 --> 00:05:16,149 Speaker 2: all of the I still hear all the beeps from Niku, 104 00:05:16,269 --> 00:05:19,349 Speaker 2: and I still remember everything that I'd gone through with Henry. 105 00:05:19,389 --> 00:05:22,069 Speaker 2: So you absolutely replay it all over in your head again, 106 00:05:22,109 --> 00:05:24,189 Speaker 2: and obviously you want the best outcome. But there were 107 00:05:24,229 --> 00:05:26,349 Speaker 2: no reasons on why that happened for me, So because 108 00:05:26,389 --> 00:05:29,149 Speaker 2: I didn't have an answer, it makes you wonder what 109 00:05:29,189 --> 00:05:31,069 Speaker 2: was happening with my body, like, was my body going 110 00:05:31,069 --> 00:05:32,629 Speaker 2: to do the same thing again? For sure? 111 00:05:33,149 --> 00:05:36,749 Speaker 1: So you have a relatively normal pregnancy with Lily. 112 00:05:36,909 --> 00:05:40,509 Speaker 2: Yeah, I was hit with pretty significant morning sickness almost 113 00:05:40,629 --> 00:05:42,989 Speaker 2: the entire way through. I used to carry a little 114 00:05:42,989 --> 00:05:45,269 Speaker 2: bag in the car with me and I was doing 115 00:05:45,309 --> 00:05:47,669 Speaker 2: a lot of little vomits in the car, unfortunately. But 116 00:05:48,109 --> 00:05:51,029 Speaker 2: other than that, I made it to full term. I 117 00:05:51,069 --> 00:05:54,389 Speaker 2: was still classed as a high risk pregnancy, but the 118 00:05:54,389 --> 00:05:58,309 Speaker 2: pregnancy itself went really well. I just learned to ask 119 00:05:58,349 --> 00:06:03,069 Speaker 2: a lot of questions. I decided to really educate myself 120 00:06:03,429 --> 00:06:06,269 Speaker 2: more so this time about what I wanted my birth 121 00:06:06,269 --> 00:06:08,709 Speaker 2: to look like and just have something to aspire to. 122 00:06:08,789 --> 00:06:11,589 Speaker 2: I really, even though there were no options at the 123 00:06:11,629 --> 00:06:13,869 Speaker 2: time when I had Henry, it was what needed to 124 00:06:13,869 --> 00:06:16,949 Speaker 2: happen happened, you know. There were no choices for me 125 00:06:16,989 --> 00:06:18,829 Speaker 2: to have a vaginal birth in that moment. That was 126 00:06:18,869 --> 00:06:21,389 Speaker 2: what needed to happen to keep him alive. But given 127 00:06:21,429 --> 00:06:24,309 Speaker 2: that everything was looking fantastic with this pregnancy, I wanted 128 00:06:24,389 --> 00:06:26,469 Speaker 2: to make the choice to try and do things differently, 129 00:06:26,469 --> 00:06:29,029 Speaker 2: and I really wanted to have a vaginal birth, so 130 00:06:29,269 --> 00:06:31,909 Speaker 2: I opted for what's called a vback a vaginal birth 131 00:06:31,949 --> 00:06:36,749 Speaker 2: after cesarean, and I basically spent my time learning and 132 00:06:36,789 --> 00:06:39,469 Speaker 2: finding the best way and the best support people to 133 00:06:39,509 --> 00:06:40,269 Speaker 2: help me to get that. 134 00:06:40,629 --> 00:06:43,469 Speaker 1: What made you decide to seek out a. 135 00:06:43,509 --> 00:06:47,629 Speaker 2: Doula was my husband actually my now husband and I 136 00:06:47,909 --> 00:06:50,869 Speaker 2: when we fell pregnant and we were talking about, you know, 137 00:06:50,949 --> 00:06:54,309 Speaker 2: my fears around that birth. He said to me, let's 138 00:06:54,349 --> 00:06:57,029 Speaker 2: hire a doula, And I said, what's a duola? Like, 139 00:06:57,069 --> 00:06:58,829 Speaker 2: I'm sure there's a lot of people that wouldn't have known, 140 00:06:58,829 --> 00:07:00,349 Speaker 2: And I actually didn't know what a doula was at 141 00:07:00,349 --> 00:07:02,589 Speaker 2: the time, and then he went on to explain that 142 00:07:02,629 --> 00:07:05,469 Speaker 2: it's a birth support person who can help educate you 143 00:07:05,509 --> 00:07:07,869 Speaker 2: and be there to support you during that birth throughout 144 00:07:07,909 --> 00:07:11,229 Speaker 2: your pregnancy as well. So again started doing my research 145 00:07:11,389 --> 00:07:15,189 Speaker 2: and we hired a dolla. So she was amazing throughout 146 00:07:15,229 --> 00:07:19,269 Speaker 2: that experience. She definitely kept me calm even leading up 147 00:07:19,309 --> 00:07:21,149 Speaker 2: to my birth with someone that I could talk to 148 00:07:21,189 --> 00:07:23,589 Speaker 2: that wasn't you know, you talk to your friends when 149 00:07:23,629 --> 00:07:26,149 Speaker 2: you're going through things, But when you have someone that's 150 00:07:26,269 --> 00:07:29,749 Speaker 2: you're paying them to be in your corner and they're 151 00:07:29,789 --> 00:07:32,509 Speaker 2: not talking to anyone else, there's no little sideline chats 152 00:07:32,549 --> 00:07:34,429 Speaker 2: and people checking in all the time. It's just that 153 00:07:34,509 --> 00:07:38,869 Speaker 2: one person, that continuity of care that you have with someone, 154 00:07:38,869 --> 00:07:40,709 Speaker 2: and you build a bond as well, So you know, 155 00:07:40,829 --> 00:07:43,309 Speaker 2: I build a relationship with her leading up to my birth, 156 00:07:43,389 --> 00:07:45,309 Speaker 2: so I felt completely comfortable with her being in my 157 00:07:45,309 --> 00:07:46,309 Speaker 2: birth space as well. 158 00:07:46,789 --> 00:07:49,469 Speaker 1: How far in advance does a duela start to kind 159 00:07:49,509 --> 00:07:51,429 Speaker 1: of help you out in a birth. 160 00:07:51,829 --> 00:07:55,429 Speaker 2: It varies with Nadine. When I had her, I had 161 00:07:55,589 --> 00:07:58,869 Speaker 2: booked her quite early on, but really the help comes 162 00:07:58,869 --> 00:08:00,669 Speaker 2: when you're getting to the closer part of your birth. 163 00:08:00,709 --> 00:08:02,869 Speaker 2: You can obviously message a dueler at any point if 164 00:08:02,869 --> 00:08:04,669 Speaker 2: you're concerned, but at the end of the day, a 165 00:08:04,749 --> 00:08:07,349 Speaker 2: duela isn't medical, so I can definitely talk to about 166 00:08:07,389 --> 00:08:10,029 Speaker 2: my feelings. She can give me words of support and encourage, 167 00:08:10,269 --> 00:08:12,189 Speaker 2: but if there was anything that was a medical concern, 168 00:08:12,629 --> 00:08:15,589 Speaker 2: she would naturally give me advice based on talking to 169 00:08:16,149 --> 00:08:19,589 Speaker 2: a doctor. Her care came more into play leading up 170 00:08:19,589 --> 00:08:21,829 Speaker 2: to the birth of Lily, so when my waters broke, 171 00:08:22,229 --> 00:08:24,229 Speaker 2: letting her know that was happening, she'd come visit me 172 00:08:24,269 --> 00:08:26,629 Speaker 2: at the house. You know, duelers will help you labor 173 00:08:26,669 --> 00:08:29,029 Speaker 2: at home before you transfer to hospital. If you're choosing 174 00:08:29,069 --> 00:08:31,309 Speaker 2: to have a hospital birth. In fact, even if it's 175 00:08:31,309 --> 00:08:33,469 Speaker 2: a cesarean, they'll be there when you're ready for them 176 00:08:33,469 --> 00:08:35,549 Speaker 2: to be there to give you that support. It's like 177 00:08:35,589 --> 00:08:37,789 Speaker 2: having a sister in your corner as well as your 178 00:08:37,829 --> 00:08:40,389 Speaker 2: partner if you have a partner coming up. 179 00:08:40,709 --> 00:08:46,589 Speaker 4: Ricky goes into labor with a splash. 180 00:08:46,669 --> 00:08:48,909 Speaker 1: So tell me about going into labor. You said that 181 00:08:48,949 --> 00:08:50,229 Speaker 1: you got to full term. 182 00:08:50,429 --> 00:08:52,549 Speaker 2: Well I call it full term considering it was twenty 183 00:08:52,589 --> 00:08:54,549 Speaker 2: eight weeks with Henry. I got to thirty seven, just 184 00:08:54,589 --> 00:08:56,709 Speaker 2: over thirty seven weeks. So in my mind when I 185 00:08:56,789 --> 00:08:58,509 Speaker 2: got to thirty seven weeks, I was like I'm cooked, 186 00:08:58,629 --> 00:09:00,749 Speaker 2: Like I felt well and truly ready to have that baby. 187 00:09:00,789 --> 00:09:03,109 Speaker 2: It was the middle of February that was very hot, 188 00:09:03,549 --> 00:09:05,549 Speaker 2: and I was one of the statistics where it was 189 00:09:05,589 --> 00:09:08,509 Speaker 2: a big gush Like people assume in the movies that 190 00:09:09,229 --> 00:09:11,789 Speaker 2: everyone has the water breaking and it just really breaks 191 00:09:11,789 --> 00:09:13,909 Speaker 2: on the floor, But that doesn't happen for most people. 192 00:09:14,029 --> 00:09:16,189 Speaker 2: It did for me. I had the big oh my gosh, 193 00:09:16,229 --> 00:09:17,749 Speaker 2: my waters have definitely broken. 194 00:09:18,149 --> 00:09:19,429 Speaker 1: Were you in a supermarket. 195 00:09:19,749 --> 00:09:22,509 Speaker 2: I wasn't. I was actually in my kitchen doorway, so 196 00:09:22,869 --> 00:09:25,389 Speaker 2: I was at home, thank goodness. But yeah, I had 197 00:09:25,429 --> 00:09:29,429 Speaker 2: that proper water breaking situation, But interestingly for me, I 198 00:09:29,469 --> 00:09:32,349 Speaker 2: didn't actually go into labor, so my water's broke. I 199 00:09:32,389 --> 00:09:35,949 Speaker 2: didn't go into labor. I rocked around on a fitball 200 00:09:36,149 --> 00:09:39,629 Speaker 2: for twenty four hours and nothing happened. Went to the hospital, 201 00:09:40,029 --> 00:09:43,349 Speaker 2: made sure bub was okay, and made the decision to 202 00:09:43,429 --> 00:09:47,029 Speaker 2: go back home and wait longer. Everyone's got their own, 203 00:09:47,149 --> 00:09:49,509 Speaker 2: you know, sort of personal choices that they make in 204 00:09:49,549 --> 00:09:52,549 Speaker 2: those moments. It's different when you've had a cesarean before, 205 00:09:52,629 --> 00:09:55,029 Speaker 2: so if you're pushing for a v back, it's a 206 00:09:55,109 --> 00:09:57,429 Speaker 2: very different situation where you really need to arm yourself 207 00:09:57,429 --> 00:10:01,229 Speaker 2: with lots of knowledge. The dueler helped me. I decided 208 00:10:01,269 --> 00:10:03,829 Speaker 2: to go home. Some people may not have done that, 209 00:10:03,909 --> 00:10:05,469 Speaker 2: but it was that, or it was booking in for 210 00:10:05,509 --> 00:10:06,509 Speaker 2: a cesarean that day. 211 00:10:07,029 --> 00:10:10,709 Speaker 1: How adamant were you about not having another cesarean look 212 00:10:11,029 --> 00:10:11,509 Speaker 1: like anything? 213 00:10:11,549 --> 00:10:13,869 Speaker 2: And I'm a realist. No birth is going to be 214 00:10:13,909 --> 00:10:16,469 Speaker 2: the same, and you can't dictate. You could say all 215 00:10:16,549 --> 00:10:18,629 Speaker 2: you want, I want a home birth, or I want 216 00:10:18,669 --> 00:10:20,749 Speaker 2: a vaginal birth, or I want a V back. I 217 00:10:20,789 --> 00:10:22,629 Speaker 2: really wanted that V back. I knew that it was 218 00:10:22,629 --> 00:10:24,469 Speaker 2: going to be healing for me. But I also knew 219 00:10:24,469 --> 00:10:27,069 Speaker 2: that in life, some things just pivot, and I was 220 00:10:27,109 --> 00:10:30,069 Speaker 2: willing to pivot my plan, but I wanted to know 221 00:10:30,109 --> 00:10:32,509 Speaker 2: that I'd walked away giving it everything I could. So 222 00:10:33,109 --> 00:10:35,709 Speaker 2: I went with signing myself out at the hospital for 223 00:10:35,749 --> 00:10:38,469 Speaker 2: another twenty four hours, and I promised myself that I'd 224 00:10:38,509 --> 00:10:40,069 Speaker 2: give it that time, but I would never put my 225 00:10:40,109 --> 00:10:43,069 Speaker 2: baby or myself at risk. So by day three, I 226 00:10:43,109 --> 00:10:45,549 Speaker 2: took myself to the hospital. I was on a clock. 227 00:10:45,589 --> 00:10:47,229 Speaker 2: I had till six pm that night to have my 228 00:10:47,269 --> 00:10:49,549 Speaker 2: baby or they were booking me in for a cesarean. 229 00:10:49,869 --> 00:10:52,229 Speaker 1: Were you having regular contractions at this point? Do they 230 00:10:52,309 --> 00:10:55,229 Speaker 1: need to give you anything to help that alone? 231 00:10:55,309 --> 00:10:57,789 Speaker 2: I had absolutely no contractions. I was doing lots of 232 00:10:57,829 --> 00:11:00,149 Speaker 2: talking and moving and trying all the things. I had 233 00:11:00,149 --> 00:11:03,229 Speaker 2: not a single twinge of a contraction. I was very 234 00:11:03,349 --> 00:11:06,309 Speaker 2: lucky that the obstetrician that was on that day, his 235 00:11:06,389 --> 00:11:09,429 Speaker 2: name was doctor Bissert's. He's a huge advocate for vbacks 236 00:11:09,509 --> 00:11:12,109 Speaker 2: in our hospital. He was on. He was one hundred 237 00:11:12,109 --> 00:11:14,589 Speaker 2: percent in my corner. When you've had a vback, you 238 00:11:14,629 --> 00:11:17,669 Speaker 2: actually aren't meant to have any kind of interference, any 239 00:11:17,669 --> 00:11:20,829 Speaker 2: inductions because it can be a risk for rupture, given 240 00:11:20,869 --> 00:11:23,469 Speaker 2: that there was almost five years between my two we 241 00:11:23,589 --> 00:11:27,149 Speaker 2: made a little bit of a connection on negotiation and 242 00:11:27,669 --> 00:11:30,749 Speaker 2: he agreed to allow me to have a slight induction. 243 00:11:31,429 --> 00:11:34,149 Speaker 2: And between having that induction, that's where I pivoted. I 244 00:11:34,189 --> 00:11:37,789 Speaker 2: went to agreeing to being monitored. I agreed to other 245 00:11:37,829 --> 00:11:40,149 Speaker 2: things that in my original plan I had never wanted 246 00:11:40,149 --> 00:11:42,109 Speaker 2: to do, but that was what I needed to do 247 00:11:42,229 --> 00:11:44,709 Speaker 2: to get the outcome that I wanted and I had 248 00:11:44,749 --> 00:11:46,189 Speaker 2: her within three hours after that. 249 00:11:46,469 --> 00:11:49,189 Speaker 1: Did you have like oxytocin or did you have the TA? Yeah, 250 00:11:49,189 --> 00:11:50,349 Speaker 1: you have the oxytocin, just. 251 00:11:50,309 --> 00:11:54,069 Speaker 2: The smallest amount to alleviate any risk of rupture. I 252 00:11:54,069 --> 00:11:55,949 Speaker 2: had a very small amount and that's all I needed, 253 00:11:56,029 --> 00:11:58,189 Speaker 2: and that was at about three o'clock in the afternoon, 254 00:11:58,549 --> 00:12:00,509 Speaker 2: and I had her at six eighteen that evening. 255 00:12:00,829 --> 00:12:04,629 Speaker 1: Did you have any medication? No, so was the choice 256 00:12:04,669 --> 00:12:08,549 Speaker 1: to not have medication part of healing that previous trauma. 257 00:12:08,869 --> 00:12:12,589 Speaker 2: Ideally didn't want any medical intervention. And then when I 258 00:12:12,629 --> 00:12:17,549 Speaker 2: had the oxytocin, I realized that it was happening so 259 00:12:17,669 --> 00:12:19,669 Speaker 2: quickly that, to be honest, I don't think I would 260 00:12:19,669 --> 00:12:21,989 Speaker 2: have had time. It was fast and furious from the 261 00:12:21,989 --> 00:12:24,789 Speaker 2: moment that went in and within three and a half 262 00:12:24,789 --> 00:12:27,909 Speaker 2: hours from no dilation to having a baby in my arms, 263 00:12:27,989 --> 00:12:30,749 Speaker 2: there wouldn't have been any time, so I just went 264 00:12:30,789 --> 00:12:31,069 Speaker 2: with it. 265 00:12:31,349 --> 00:12:33,549 Speaker 1: Tell us about what your dula did for you. 266 00:12:33,909 --> 00:12:35,629 Speaker 2: Honestly, I don't think I actually would have had the 267 00:12:35,669 --> 00:12:38,829 Speaker 2: outcome without her and of course my husband. But you know, 268 00:12:38,909 --> 00:12:41,509 Speaker 2: even in that moment where my water's broke, you know 269 00:12:41,589 --> 00:12:44,549 Speaker 2: your natural urge is to call the hospital, like my 270 00:12:44,589 --> 00:12:46,789 Speaker 2: water's a broken, called the hospital, tell them. But obviously 271 00:12:46,789 --> 00:12:49,549 Speaker 2: the moment that you call up your hospital, you are 272 00:12:49,589 --> 00:12:52,589 Speaker 2: on a clock. So again she's not medical, but she 273 00:12:52,669 --> 00:12:54,629 Speaker 2: did sort of say you don't need to tell them yet, 274 00:12:54,709 --> 00:12:56,989 Speaker 2: like we can just see how things play out at home. 275 00:12:57,069 --> 00:12:59,509 Speaker 2: So that's what I did. When we went to the hospital, 276 00:12:59,549 --> 00:13:01,469 Speaker 2: she was there with me. So in that conversation that 277 00:13:01,469 --> 00:13:03,469 Speaker 2: happened with an obstetrician that was on that day where 278 00:13:03,469 --> 00:13:05,349 Speaker 2: they said okay, and they had their check board out 279 00:13:05,349 --> 00:13:07,069 Speaker 2: and they said, let's book your in for cesarian today. 280 00:13:07,069 --> 00:13:09,749 Speaker 2: You're obviously not going into labor. I was able to 281 00:13:10,269 --> 00:13:13,029 Speaker 2: have a quiet conversation with her and my husband. She 282 00:13:13,109 --> 00:13:14,629 Speaker 2: was able to bring me back down and you know, 283 00:13:14,789 --> 00:13:17,909 Speaker 2: encourage me to make choices for myself, not based on 284 00:13:18,389 --> 00:13:20,709 Speaker 2: you know, what someone's telling me to do. Weigh up 285 00:13:20,709 --> 00:13:23,789 Speaker 2: the risks, weigh up the benefits, and she was a 286 00:13:23,829 --> 00:13:25,909 Speaker 2: big part of what helped me to make the decision 287 00:13:25,949 --> 00:13:27,349 Speaker 2: to go home and wait a little bit longer. 288 00:13:27,669 --> 00:13:30,669 Speaker 1: So you're in the hospital, the duel is there, You've 289 00:13:30,709 --> 00:13:33,589 Speaker 1: had a little bit of oxytocin, You're having all of 290 00:13:33,589 --> 00:13:36,109 Speaker 1: a sudden, very intense contractions. 291 00:13:35,949 --> 00:13:38,309 Speaker 2: Really intense contractions. And the funny thing was, I could 292 00:13:38,389 --> 00:13:42,549 Speaker 2: not stop smiling. Cassenya. Birth is hard, like anyone that's 293 00:13:42,549 --> 00:13:44,909 Speaker 2: gone through labor and birth, like, it's not easy, but 294 00:13:45,069 --> 00:13:47,269 Speaker 2: you know, we can do it. But I was just 295 00:13:47,309 --> 00:13:50,509 Speaker 2: so excited that things were moving along. She helped me 296 00:13:50,549 --> 00:13:52,909 Speaker 2: with pressure points. She guided my husband into what he 297 00:13:52,949 --> 00:13:54,709 Speaker 2: could do to help me throughout that as well. So 298 00:13:54,709 --> 00:13:56,389 Speaker 2: it's the other thing. You know, they're there to help 299 00:13:56,549 --> 00:13:59,309 Speaker 2: partner support too. It's not like they take over the partner. 300 00:13:59,589 --> 00:14:01,389 Speaker 2: It's funny. I felt like she wasn't even in the 301 00:14:01,469 --> 00:14:04,189 Speaker 2: room and it was all my husband, and that's how 302 00:14:04,189 --> 00:14:07,029 Speaker 2: it should be. But she played a huge role in 303 00:14:07,029 --> 00:14:09,589 Speaker 2: that birth experience. And you know, it's a voice of 304 00:14:09,629 --> 00:14:11,589 Speaker 2: reason as well, right like when you've got It's bit 305 00:14:11,629 --> 00:14:12,909 Speaker 2: like when you get on a flight and if there's 306 00:14:12,949 --> 00:14:14,829 Speaker 2: turbulence and you look over and you're checking if the 307 00:14:14,829 --> 00:14:16,989 Speaker 2: air hostess is a calm and you're like, okay, they're 308 00:14:17,029 --> 00:14:19,189 Speaker 2: all calm, so that means that everything's okay. It's a 309 00:14:19,189 --> 00:14:21,029 Speaker 2: little bit like that with a duela. You've got someone 310 00:14:21,029 --> 00:14:23,429 Speaker 2: in the room who's calm, someone that's been through it before, 311 00:14:23,949 --> 00:14:26,509 Speaker 2: and someone that knows what's going on. And that I 312 00:14:26,549 --> 00:14:28,749 Speaker 2: think helped my husband, which in turn helps me because 313 00:14:28,789 --> 00:14:31,189 Speaker 2: that energy circulates through the room. 314 00:14:31,469 --> 00:14:35,109 Speaker 1: Lily is coming, Lily is standing, Are you in the bath? 315 00:14:35,229 --> 00:14:35,989 Speaker 1: Are you sitting? 316 00:14:36,469 --> 00:14:40,429 Speaker 2: I was loud, so there was a lot of moaning, 317 00:14:40,549 --> 00:14:44,389 Speaker 2: deep guttural moaning. Again, it came on quickly. Most women 318 00:14:44,389 --> 00:14:46,589 Speaker 2: do start to make a lot of noise at the 319 00:14:46,669 --> 00:14:49,309 Speaker 2: end of their birth, but because mine was so fast, 320 00:14:49,589 --> 00:14:52,029 Speaker 2: it was pretty much from the get go. Hats off 321 00:14:52,029 --> 00:14:54,189 Speaker 2: to long labor women, because you know, I got to 322 00:14:54,309 --> 00:14:56,629 Speaker 2: that three hour mark and I was like, how much longer? 323 00:14:57,349 --> 00:15:00,069 Speaker 2: It's intense, And it's intense when you for anyone that's 324 00:15:00,069 --> 00:15:02,749 Speaker 2: had anything to help them, like an induction, it is 325 00:15:02,789 --> 00:15:06,429 Speaker 2: a different speed at which you labor, so especially when 326 00:15:06,469 --> 00:15:09,949 Speaker 2: you've had the pictosonal, the artificial oxytocin. That definitely speeds 327 00:15:09,949 --> 00:15:12,709 Speaker 2: things up a lot faster than what your body's ready for, 328 00:15:12,869 --> 00:15:15,989 Speaker 2: so the pain or the discomfort can be a lot 329 00:15:16,029 --> 00:15:20,029 Speaker 2: more intense than when you're sort of laboring naturally. I 330 00:15:20,189 --> 00:15:22,869 Speaker 2: was always on all fours and over a ball, and 331 00:15:22,909 --> 00:15:25,549 Speaker 2: then just when they said that they could see her head, 332 00:15:25,909 --> 00:15:28,549 Speaker 2: they suggested that I kind of come up, leaning up 333 00:15:28,629 --> 00:15:31,669 Speaker 2: over a bed and yeah, arms up, like arms up 334 00:15:31,709 --> 00:15:34,189 Speaker 2: and leaning over, and when she came out, I got 335 00:15:34,189 --> 00:15:37,589 Speaker 2: to catch her. They sort of handed her up into me. Yeah, 336 00:15:37,629 --> 00:15:40,589 Speaker 2: and I was just so happy. Yeah, it was amazing. 337 00:15:40,629 --> 00:15:43,109 Speaker 2: It was the best experience. I'd do it again. But 338 00:15:43,229 --> 00:15:43,989 Speaker 2: that ship sailed. 339 00:15:44,949 --> 00:15:46,749 Speaker 1: This is something that I really want to sort of 340 00:15:47,149 --> 00:15:50,989 Speaker 1: focus on, is the fact that this was healing for you. 341 00:15:51,309 --> 00:15:54,269 Speaker 2: It was so healing. It was Yeah, it still lights 342 00:15:54,269 --> 00:15:58,469 Speaker 2: me up. I'm so grateful to have been able to 343 00:15:59,949 --> 00:16:02,669 Speaker 2: see what my body was capable of and to actually 344 00:16:02,709 --> 00:16:05,309 Speaker 2: be able to You know, there are people who choose 345 00:16:05,349 --> 00:16:07,229 Speaker 2: to have a plant c's aerian, and there are people 346 00:16:07,269 --> 00:16:09,429 Speaker 2: who choose to have whatever way they want to birth 347 00:16:09,469 --> 00:16:11,669 Speaker 2: their baby. But I really wanted that. I really wanted 348 00:16:11,669 --> 00:16:13,749 Speaker 2: to be able to see if my body could do it. 349 00:16:13,909 --> 00:16:16,109 Speaker 2: I felt like my body had failed me the last time. 350 00:16:16,149 --> 00:16:18,509 Speaker 2: I thought that it was me and that's why I 351 00:16:18,549 --> 00:16:21,109 Speaker 2: had him so early, so to get to full term, 352 00:16:21,149 --> 00:16:23,069 Speaker 2: to be able to have that vaginal birth, to do 353 00:16:23,109 --> 00:16:25,989 Speaker 2: everything that I could have done to get that. I 354 00:16:26,069 --> 00:16:29,149 Speaker 2: felt like I was a superhero. I walked out of 355 00:16:29,189 --> 00:16:32,829 Speaker 2: there going I can take on the world. And I 356 00:16:32,829 --> 00:16:34,989 Speaker 2: feel like I've carried that with me all the way 357 00:16:35,029 --> 00:16:37,589 Speaker 2: through now, like it's changed me as a person, Like 358 00:16:37,669 --> 00:16:40,229 Speaker 2: it's made me realize I can really do anything. That's 359 00:16:40,429 --> 00:16:43,389 Speaker 2: genuinely how I feel. Even talking about it makes me like, yeah, 360 00:16:43,509 --> 00:16:43,909 Speaker 2: let's go. 361 00:16:44,269 --> 00:16:46,469 Speaker 1: And what about your husband? How did he feel about it? 362 00:16:46,669 --> 00:16:46,829 Speaker 3: Oh? 363 00:16:46,909 --> 00:16:48,749 Speaker 2: He was my rock. He was amazing and he was 364 00:16:48,829 --> 00:16:50,869 Speaker 2: just he really wanted it for me as well. Again, 365 00:16:50,989 --> 00:16:54,429 Speaker 2: like he actually had more knowledge around duelers and birth 366 00:16:54,509 --> 00:16:56,909 Speaker 2: than I did, which was kind of funny. But you 367 00:16:56,949 --> 00:16:59,629 Speaker 2: know he was just there supporting every single decision I made. 368 00:16:59,629 --> 00:17:01,749 Speaker 2: He just backed me. So you know, there was no oh, 369 00:17:01,789 --> 00:17:04,189 Speaker 2: we should listen to the doctor. They've suggested you have 370 00:17:04,229 --> 00:17:06,549 Speaker 2: a ceseri end Today it was what do you want 371 00:17:06,589 --> 00:17:08,789 Speaker 2: to do? How do you feel I want you to 372 00:17:08,869 --> 00:17:12,029 Speaker 2: make the decisions, and so he just empowered me even more. 373 00:17:12,109 --> 00:17:13,669 Speaker 2: You know, I had these people in my corner who 374 00:17:13,669 --> 00:17:15,469 Speaker 2: were lifting me the whole way and saying, you can 375 00:17:15,509 --> 00:17:18,469 Speaker 2: do this. So I was just really really lucky. 376 00:17:18,989 --> 00:17:20,869 Speaker 1: Was there any moment where they were like, we need 377 00:17:20,909 --> 00:17:22,589 Speaker 1: to take you for a caesar No. 378 00:17:23,029 --> 00:17:25,989 Speaker 2: I knew that we'd made the agreement that if I 379 00:17:26,029 --> 00:17:28,829 Speaker 2: had not had her by six o'clock that night, that 380 00:17:28,869 --> 00:17:31,549 Speaker 2: they'd had already pre booked me in for a cesarian 381 00:17:31,589 --> 00:17:33,349 Speaker 2: that evening. Like we've got to remember, I'd been three 382 00:17:33,389 --> 00:17:36,029 Speaker 2: days with my waters broken as well, so you know, 383 00:17:36,109 --> 00:17:39,029 Speaker 2: there are risks to infection if your waters have broken 384 00:17:39,069 --> 00:17:40,789 Speaker 2: for too long a time. So I was very aware 385 00:17:40,829 --> 00:17:42,309 Speaker 2: that I needed to make sure that I was okay 386 00:17:42,349 --> 00:17:45,509 Speaker 2: and that my baby was okay. So, you know, leading 387 00:17:45,549 --> 00:17:47,629 Speaker 2: up that day spending at hospital where I'm trying to 388 00:17:47,749 --> 00:17:49,949 Speaker 2: bring on labor and my doll is doing ACTR pressure 389 00:17:49,949 --> 00:17:52,109 Speaker 2: points and all the things, like, I was emotional. I 390 00:17:52,189 --> 00:17:54,669 Speaker 2: was mourning the thought that I was probably not going 391 00:17:54,709 --> 00:17:57,269 Speaker 2: to get the berth that I wanted. And then everything 392 00:17:57,349 --> 00:18:00,549 Speaker 2: changed when we had a really strong conversation with the 393 00:18:00,549 --> 00:18:02,749 Speaker 2: obstetrician that was on that day. He really wanted me 394 00:18:02,789 --> 00:18:04,549 Speaker 2: to have that fee back just as much as I did. 395 00:18:05,109 --> 00:18:07,229 Speaker 2: I was lucky that I had the obstetrician I had, 396 00:18:07,469 --> 00:18:09,629 Speaker 2: and it just went in my favor, you know. He 397 00:18:09,709 --> 00:18:12,669 Speaker 2: agreed to putting the drip in and it changed the 398 00:18:12,669 --> 00:18:14,509 Speaker 2: trajectory of my birth outcome. 399 00:18:14,789 --> 00:18:16,469 Speaker 1: There's a lot of people that want to have a feback, 400 00:18:16,549 --> 00:18:20,669 Speaker 1: but there are obviously, like those risks with it. What 401 00:18:20,749 --> 00:18:24,029 Speaker 1: did they tell you about the risks of having a feedback, 402 00:18:24,469 --> 00:18:24,869 Speaker 1: I mean. 403 00:18:24,709 --> 00:18:27,389 Speaker 2: The risks of the closer you are to your previous birth, 404 00:18:27,469 --> 00:18:30,109 Speaker 2: the more serious the risks are. So say i'd had 405 00:18:30,389 --> 00:18:32,709 Speaker 2: my first birth a year before, there would have been 406 00:18:32,749 --> 00:18:34,549 Speaker 2: no chance that I would have been able to have 407 00:18:34,789 --> 00:18:37,909 Speaker 2: any kind of inductions. But because there was five years between, 408 00:18:38,109 --> 00:18:41,029 Speaker 2: it's all about the scarring. So risks in hospital will 409 00:18:41,029 --> 00:18:43,949 Speaker 2: tell you that you're at risk of a rupture because 410 00:18:44,189 --> 00:18:47,469 Speaker 2: you've had quite significant abdominal surgery, which is what a 411 00:18:47,469 --> 00:18:50,029 Speaker 2: cesarean is. So if you're doing that too close to 412 00:18:50,069 --> 00:18:52,749 Speaker 2: the next birth, they say that there's a risk of 413 00:18:53,069 --> 00:18:55,629 Speaker 2: a rupture. So again I just say that it's all 414 00:18:55,629 --> 00:18:58,749 Speaker 2: about doing your research and finding what feels right for you, 415 00:18:58,829 --> 00:19:03,469 Speaker 2: not just going to a medical provider and letting them dictate. Absolutely, 416 00:19:03,509 --> 00:19:05,749 Speaker 2: hear it and listen to all of the information, and 417 00:19:05,789 --> 00:19:08,669 Speaker 2: then go home and do your research and make a 418 00:19:08,709 --> 00:19:11,669 Speaker 2: decision on what feels right for you. You ask questions, 419 00:19:11,669 --> 00:19:13,789 Speaker 2: because that is the biggest part. It's all about rupture, 420 00:19:13,829 --> 00:19:16,589 Speaker 2: which can obviously cause hemorrhaging and that then can be 421 00:19:16,629 --> 00:19:17,269 Speaker 2: life threatening. 422 00:19:17,589 --> 00:19:21,629 Speaker 1: Because of this healing experience of having Lily, you decided 423 00:19:21,669 --> 00:19:23,629 Speaker 1: that being a dueler was what you wanted to do. 424 00:19:23,709 --> 00:19:26,309 Speaker 2: Why there were big parts to it. It wasn't just 425 00:19:26,349 --> 00:19:29,789 Speaker 2: about the birth. Anyone that's had two children can tell 426 00:19:29,829 --> 00:19:33,189 Speaker 2: you that no two postpartums are the same either. I 427 00:19:33,189 --> 00:19:35,549 Speaker 2: think when I had Lily, I had you know this 428 00:19:35,789 --> 00:19:39,349 Speaker 2: hear me raw experience. But when I came home it 429 00:19:39,429 --> 00:19:41,469 Speaker 2: was really difficult, you know, like I was still on 430 00:19:41,509 --> 00:19:44,909 Speaker 2: cloud nine, but no sleep. Plus you know, dealing with 431 00:19:44,949 --> 00:19:46,589 Speaker 2: a five year old who was just having all the 432 00:19:46,589 --> 00:19:49,109 Speaker 2: emotions of starting school. You know, there was a lot 433 00:19:49,189 --> 00:19:52,909 Speaker 2: going on when I came home, and no one prepared 434 00:19:52,909 --> 00:19:55,389 Speaker 2: me for life with two No one does, no one can. 435 00:19:55,549 --> 00:19:58,389 Speaker 2: And I found that in itself difficult too. So part 436 00:19:58,429 --> 00:20:00,629 Speaker 2: of wanting to become a dueler wasn't just around the birth. 437 00:20:00,629 --> 00:20:03,469 Speaker 2: It was actually around supporting mothers in their postpartum It's 438 00:20:03,469 --> 00:20:04,829 Speaker 2: been a few years now, but I do a lot 439 00:20:04,829 --> 00:20:07,309 Speaker 2: of work with women who just come home with their 440 00:20:07,349 --> 00:20:10,589 Speaker 2: baby too, So we place all this emphasis on our 441 00:20:10,669 --> 00:20:14,629 Speaker 2: birth and all the education. I'm like, I'm so about it. Obviously, 442 00:20:14,669 --> 00:20:17,189 Speaker 2: as you can tell, I'm really big on educating yourself 443 00:20:17,189 --> 00:20:19,909 Speaker 2: for your birth. But it doesn't end there. It actually 444 00:20:19,949 --> 00:20:23,229 Speaker 2: continues on when you go home with that baby. And 445 00:20:23,309 --> 00:20:25,229 Speaker 2: I think a lot of people put all the emphasis 446 00:20:25,229 --> 00:20:27,909 Speaker 2: on the birth and then they get home and go, 447 00:20:28,029 --> 00:20:29,909 Speaker 2: oh my god, what am I meant to do now? 448 00:20:30,589 --> 00:20:33,429 Speaker 2: So what I decided was that I wanted to come 449 00:20:33,429 --> 00:20:36,029 Speaker 2: into a place of education and supporting women in birth, 450 00:20:36,069 --> 00:20:38,509 Speaker 2: but also helping them when they get home that first 451 00:20:38,589 --> 00:20:41,789 Speaker 2: twelve weeks, helping them navigate and learn to really lean 452 00:20:41,789 --> 00:20:44,749 Speaker 2: into that intuition everything that they wanted in their birth, 453 00:20:44,789 --> 00:20:46,709 Speaker 2: you know, lean into that intuition, and to learn to 454 00:20:46,789 --> 00:20:50,629 Speaker 2: have the confidence as a mother now as well. So, yeah, 455 00:20:50,669 --> 00:20:51,269 Speaker 2: I'm loving it. 456 00:20:51,629 --> 00:20:54,509 Speaker 1: After you had Henry, did you ever think that that 457 00:20:54,549 --> 00:20:55,669 Speaker 1: would be the path for you? 458 00:20:56,189 --> 00:20:59,469 Speaker 2: Absolutely not. I had many different roles, and I was 459 00:20:59,509 --> 00:21:02,829 Speaker 2: working in events and really late nights and living that 460 00:21:02,949 --> 00:21:05,069 Speaker 2: kind of life. And I would have never thought that 461 00:21:05,069 --> 00:21:07,069 Speaker 2: this would have been a role for me. But I 462 00:21:07,149 --> 00:21:10,069 Speaker 2: went and studied, and I thought I would study it, 463 00:21:10,229 --> 00:21:12,829 Speaker 2: not necessarily as a career, but just to see dip 464 00:21:12,869 --> 00:21:14,549 Speaker 2: my toe in. And the moment I walked into the 465 00:21:14,629 --> 00:21:17,429 Speaker 2: room of the college that I went to, it was 466 00:21:17,509 --> 00:21:19,989 Speaker 2: like a whole body experience. All the hair stood up 467 00:21:19,989 --> 00:21:21,109 Speaker 2: on my body and I went, this is where I 468 00:21:21,189 --> 00:21:21,589 Speaker 2: meant to be. 469 00:21:21,829 --> 00:21:24,989 Speaker 1: It's funny because we know each other from beforehand, and 470 00:21:25,029 --> 00:21:28,469 Speaker 1: I think there is this preconception that if you have 471 00:21:28,549 --> 00:21:32,589 Speaker 1: a dueler, then you have to have like an unmedicated birth. 472 00:21:32,709 --> 00:21:35,589 Speaker 1: It's like a bit woo woo. But when we're talking, 473 00:21:35,829 --> 00:21:38,789 Speaker 1: you were like, this is not what it's like. It's 474 00:21:38,829 --> 00:21:40,109 Speaker 1: a support for mum. 475 00:21:40,549 --> 00:21:44,349 Speaker 2: That's right. This is a support in birth, pregnancy, postpartum 476 00:21:44,469 --> 00:21:47,709 Speaker 2: for the mother. So if it's your birth, it's I mean, 477 00:21:47,749 --> 00:21:50,389 Speaker 2: I support women who have plan cesaians. There may be 478 00:21:50,549 --> 00:21:53,309 Speaker 2: a whole reason why they want that plan cesarian, but 479 00:21:53,349 --> 00:21:56,109 Speaker 2: that's their choice and if they're choosing that, then my 480 00:21:56,229 --> 00:21:59,629 Speaker 2: support comes down to maybe in hospital care or helping 481 00:21:59,629 --> 00:22:02,349 Speaker 2: them in their recovery period when they go. It's not 482 00:22:02,429 --> 00:22:05,109 Speaker 2: about trying to chastise a woman for the decisions that 483 00:22:05,149 --> 00:22:08,829 Speaker 2: she makes. It's actually about empowering them with the decision 484 00:22:08,829 --> 00:22:11,269 Speaker 2: that they've made. There's a big difference, and there's a 485 00:22:11,269 --> 00:22:13,949 Speaker 2: lot of noise in the birth and postpartum world at 486 00:22:13,989 --> 00:22:16,749 Speaker 2: the moment. And you know, I'm loving the movement around 487 00:22:17,189 --> 00:22:20,749 Speaker 2: home birth and learning about it, but it's around educating 488 00:22:20,749 --> 00:22:23,029 Speaker 2: yourself first. So educate yourself and if you come to 489 00:22:23,069 --> 00:22:25,029 Speaker 2: the conclusion that this type of birth is for me, 490 00:22:25,869 --> 00:22:28,629 Speaker 2: then that is the birth for you. And that's what 491 00:22:28,669 --> 00:22:30,629 Speaker 2: I'm there for, is to actually empower someone not to 492 00:22:30,669 --> 00:22:33,189 Speaker 2: feel guilty. We carry enough guilt as mothers. You don't 493 00:22:33,229 --> 00:22:35,949 Speaker 2: need to be guilty from the moment that you decide 494 00:22:35,949 --> 00:22:37,189 Speaker 2: how you want to birth your child. 495 00:22:37,669 --> 00:22:39,709 Speaker 1: Was there a moment during labor with Lily where you 496 00:22:39,749 --> 00:22:42,069 Speaker 1: were like, screw this, just give. 497 00:22:41,949 --> 00:22:45,269 Speaker 2: Me this, Casar No not once you know what, it's 498 00:22:45,349 --> 00:22:48,869 Speaker 2: a different pain like and again, anyone that's gone through 499 00:22:49,149 --> 00:22:50,869 Speaker 2: like you've done it and you think, oh my gosh, 500 00:22:50,909 --> 00:22:51,989 Speaker 2: I'm never going to be able to do that again. 501 00:22:52,029 --> 00:22:53,549 Speaker 2: And then you think, oh my gosh, I could totally 502 00:22:53,549 --> 00:22:56,389 Speaker 2: do that again. It ends, you know, and at the 503 00:22:56,469 --> 00:22:58,229 Speaker 2: end of it is the biggest gift of all it's 504 00:22:58,229 --> 00:23:00,829 Speaker 2: your baby. You work the hardest you've ever worked in 505 00:23:00,869 --> 00:23:03,709 Speaker 2: your life. You're the one that's completely doing it yourself. 506 00:23:03,709 --> 00:23:05,269 Speaker 2: And the gift at the end of all of that 507 00:23:05,349 --> 00:23:08,149 Speaker 2: hard work, like running a marathon. You know, I run 508 00:23:08,189 --> 00:23:11,149 Speaker 2: that marathon, and here's the gift, Like, here's my prize. 509 00:23:11,509 --> 00:23:13,149 Speaker 2: Do you know what? The only time that I got 510 00:23:13,189 --> 00:23:16,029 Speaker 2: frustrated was when my music stopped. My playlist had stopped. 511 00:23:16,069 --> 00:23:18,069 Speaker 2: I was obsessed with having sound in the room and 512 00:23:18,109 --> 00:23:20,429 Speaker 2: it stopped, and I ended up part way through like 513 00:23:20,549 --> 00:23:22,749 Speaker 2: just give it to me, give me the speaker, and 514 00:23:22,749 --> 00:23:24,509 Speaker 2: I ended up getting on the phone and fixing up 515 00:23:24,509 --> 00:23:25,149 Speaker 2: the Spotify. 516 00:23:25,909 --> 00:23:27,869 Speaker 1: Yeah, and how is your recovery? 517 00:23:28,429 --> 00:23:30,669 Speaker 2: Oh amazing. There's a photo of me the next day 518 00:23:30,869 --> 00:23:33,349 Speaker 2: with my slip walking out with my baby, like I 519 00:23:33,349 --> 00:23:33,629 Speaker 2: did that. 520 00:23:34,109 --> 00:23:34,989 Speaker 1: You left the next day. 521 00:23:35,349 --> 00:23:37,949 Speaker 2: Yeah, couldn't wait to get home to the kids and 522 00:23:38,149 --> 00:23:40,949 Speaker 2: you know, my husband. So yeah, I was out the 523 00:23:40,949 --> 00:23:41,389 Speaker 2: next day. 524 00:23:41,709 --> 00:23:46,149 Speaker 1: Wow. That sounds like it was just a really beautiful 525 00:23:46,149 --> 00:23:47,189 Speaker 1: experience for you. 526 00:23:47,709 --> 00:23:49,429 Speaker 2: Yeah. I feel really blessed that I was able to 527 00:23:49,469 --> 00:23:51,309 Speaker 2: experience that, because I know there's some people that do 528 00:23:51,989 --> 00:23:54,349 Speaker 2: go for a vback or have a different hope and 529 00:23:54,389 --> 00:23:56,509 Speaker 2: it doesn't happen, but you know, it was a really 530 00:23:56,589 --> 00:23:57,629 Speaker 2: beautiful outcome for me. 531 00:23:58,029 --> 00:24:01,069 Speaker 1: You kind of had the perfect birth, I really did. 532 00:24:01,229 --> 00:24:01,949 Speaker 2: It was amazing. 533 00:24:02,389 --> 00:24:06,149 Speaker 1: What would you say to people who have had a 534 00:24:06,189 --> 00:24:09,069 Speaker 1: really traumatic birthing experience. 535 00:24:09,589 --> 00:24:12,429 Speaker 2: You know, I've had many clients who've had first time 536 00:24:12,469 --> 00:24:16,069 Speaker 2: traumatic berths, and I think it's really important to really 537 00:24:16,149 --> 00:24:18,229 Speaker 2: talk about it. I was surprised at the amount of 538 00:24:18,269 --> 00:24:21,149 Speaker 2: people who hold it in, who don't really sit and 539 00:24:21,269 --> 00:24:23,469 Speaker 2: open up and share it, even with their partners. They 540 00:24:23,509 --> 00:24:25,989 Speaker 2: hold it in and they carry it and it's like 541 00:24:26,029 --> 00:24:28,469 Speaker 2: a dead weight on their body and it's something that 542 00:24:28,509 --> 00:24:30,829 Speaker 2: needs to come out, whether that's with therapy, whether that's 543 00:24:30,869 --> 00:24:33,789 Speaker 2: with your partner. You can even hire people like Adula 544 00:24:33,829 --> 00:24:37,029 Speaker 2: who will just do birth debriefs. My recommendation is to 545 00:24:37,149 --> 00:24:39,549 Speaker 2: really talk about it because a lot of people carry 546 00:24:39,549 --> 00:24:42,989 Speaker 2: a lot of guilt around blaming themselves for that birth, 547 00:24:43,149 --> 00:24:45,109 Speaker 2: or it could be about blaming someone else, it could 548 00:24:45,149 --> 00:24:47,829 Speaker 2: be to do with a birth trauma from an incident 549 00:24:47,869 --> 00:24:50,509 Speaker 2: at the hospital, or whatever it might be. But really 550 00:24:50,549 --> 00:24:54,069 Speaker 2: talking about it, because like any trauma, you have to 551 00:24:54,109 --> 00:24:56,909 Speaker 2: face it. You can't bury that, you can't put it 552 00:24:56,949 --> 00:24:58,589 Speaker 2: down and hope that it will go away because it's 553 00:24:58,589 --> 00:25:00,789 Speaker 2: always going to live there. So yeah, that would be 554 00:25:00,789 --> 00:25:02,989 Speaker 2: my advice is to really find someone that you can 555 00:25:03,069 --> 00:25:04,709 Speaker 2: lean on and open up to so that you can 556 00:25:04,709 --> 00:25:07,149 Speaker 2: actually move through it. It never goes away, but you 557 00:25:07,189 --> 00:25:09,229 Speaker 2: can live with it, and it will hopefully help you 558 00:25:09,269 --> 00:25:11,349 Speaker 2: if you do choose to have more children, to be 559 00:25:11,389 --> 00:25:13,229 Speaker 2: able to have a better experience when you do. 560 00:25:19,909 --> 00:25:23,709 Speaker 4: Maybe I'm biased, but Ricky's story gives me such a warm, 561 00:25:23,709 --> 00:25:27,549 Speaker 4: fuzzy feeling. I was curious, though, what are the medical 562 00:25:27,549 --> 00:25:31,069 Speaker 4: implications of a feedback? This week we have the expert 563 00:25:31,109 --> 00:25:34,269 Speaker 4: input of host of the Kick Pregnancy podcast and resident 564 00:25:34,309 --> 00:25:36,869 Speaker 4: obstetrician and kind ecologist, doctor Pat. 565 00:25:37,069 --> 00:25:39,709 Speaker 5: I think that a v back is not a difficult 566 00:25:40,149 --> 00:25:43,989 Speaker 5: thing necessarily to have. The thing that we like to 567 00:25:44,109 --> 00:25:47,829 Speaker 5: really look at when someone's interested in a vback or 568 00:25:47,869 --> 00:25:52,069 Speaker 5: a toll ackus it's also called is essentially does the 569 00:25:52,109 --> 00:25:54,749 Speaker 5: woman actually want it? Sometimes people say no, no, thank you, 570 00:25:54,829 --> 00:25:58,229 Speaker 5: I'll just have another section for various reasons, and of 571 00:25:58,229 --> 00:26:01,429 Speaker 5: course that's fine. So first hurdle I guess is whether 572 00:26:01,709 --> 00:26:04,829 Speaker 5: the woman wants the v back, and then the second 573 00:26:04,869 --> 00:26:06,069 Speaker 5: thing we tend to do is have a look at 574 00:26:06,189 --> 00:26:10,629 Speaker 5: making an earlier assessment of suitability and sometimes comes down 575 00:26:10,669 --> 00:26:14,149 Speaker 5: to looking at things like what were the exact circumstances 576 00:26:14,149 --> 00:26:18,309 Speaker 5: of the caesarean section for the first labor, what does 577 00:26:18,309 --> 00:26:21,549 Speaker 5: that tell us about how the second one might go? 578 00:26:22,629 --> 00:26:25,909 Speaker 5: And then what are the circumstances of the current pregnancy 579 00:26:25,949 --> 00:26:28,709 Speaker 5: are make sure there's no reason why the current baby 580 00:26:28,709 --> 00:26:32,469 Speaker 5: shouldn't be born vaginally, something serious like placenta preview might 581 00:26:32,509 --> 00:26:34,749 Speaker 5: be a major problem. And then in terms of getting 582 00:26:34,789 --> 00:26:37,469 Speaker 5: it organized, I think that most obstetricians would be in 583 00:26:37,549 --> 00:26:42,749 Speaker 5: favor of v back if the woman has met those 584 00:26:42,749 --> 00:26:46,509 Speaker 5: sort of criteria. And we like our vbacks to take 585 00:26:46,509 --> 00:26:49,469 Speaker 5: place in the hospital. If things change quickly, we need 586 00:26:49,509 --> 00:26:52,709 Speaker 5: to be able to respond quickly. And the other thing 587 00:26:52,749 --> 00:26:56,389 Speaker 5: I think that's super important with vbacks is education. So 588 00:26:56,509 --> 00:27:00,029 Speaker 5: we really want our v back patients to be well 589 00:27:00,109 --> 00:27:04,749 Speaker 5: informed and really up to date on the risks and benefits, 590 00:27:05,309 --> 00:27:10,149 Speaker 5: but also on how the labor would want to unfold 591 00:27:10,189 --> 00:27:14,389 Speaker 5: for us to be really happy with the v back continuing. 592 00:27:14,589 --> 00:27:17,549 Speaker 5: I often say to my patients that if it's going poorly, 593 00:27:17,629 --> 00:27:19,469 Speaker 5: I want that to be as obvious to you as 594 00:27:19,469 --> 00:27:22,749 Speaker 5: it is to me. When we've got that education, there 595 00:27:23,269 --> 00:27:25,109 Speaker 5: you know, there's no real surprises on the day, and 596 00:27:25,149 --> 00:27:27,909 Speaker 5: the success rate is excellent for v back in the 597 00:27:27,989 --> 00:27:28,669 Speaker 5: right candidate. 598 00:27:29,189 --> 00:27:33,549 Speaker 4: I also love Ricky's message of encouraging a symbiosis between 599 00:27:33,629 --> 00:27:37,029 Speaker 4: obs and dullers. Here's what doctor Patter has to say 600 00:27:37,069 --> 00:27:38,629 Speaker 4: about working as a team. 601 00:27:38,829 --> 00:27:42,149 Speaker 5: I'm always welcoming within my practice to a patient who 602 00:27:42,189 --> 00:27:43,989 Speaker 5: wants to have a dueler with her, and I think 603 00:27:43,989 --> 00:27:47,389 Speaker 5: that can work extremely well. There's absolutely no reason in 604 00:27:47,429 --> 00:27:51,149 Speaker 5: the private obstetric sector why we can't have a duler present. 605 00:27:51,909 --> 00:27:55,349 Speaker 5: If the woman feels strongly that she wants that additional 606 00:27:55,429 --> 00:27:59,349 Speaker 5: support in labor, then I think we should be doing 607 00:27:59,389 --> 00:28:02,949 Speaker 5: everything we can to make that work. Often in the 608 00:28:02,989 --> 00:28:06,909 Speaker 5: private sector, the woman has chosen her obstetrician because she 609 00:28:07,069 --> 00:28:11,349 Speaker 5: feels that that person, the obstetrician, is providing some of 610 00:28:11,389 --> 00:28:16,709 Speaker 5: that support and is intending to support the birth in 611 00:28:16,749 --> 00:28:19,429 Speaker 5: the way that the woman wants it supported, and that 612 00:28:19,509 --> 00:28:23,389 Speaker 5: might be why there's less dulas involved in the private 613 00:28:24,309 --> 00:28:28,069 Speaker 5: In the public sector, when the people looking after you 614 00:28:28,149 --> 00:28:31,309 Speaker 5: in labor are rarely the people you've seen for the 615 00:28:31,309 --> 00:28:33,829 Speaker 5: antenatal care, and they may well be people that you 616 00:28:33,989 --> 00:28:38,189 Speaker 5: haven't met at all, then there's probably more demand for 617 00:28:38,309 --> 00:28:40,829 Speaker 5: a DULA to come in with that woman, to help 618 00:28:40,869 --> 00:28:44,429 Speaker 5: support her and to help advocate for the birth that 619 00:28:44,509 --> 00:28:45,069 Speaker 5: she wants. 620 00:28:48,829 --> 00:28:51,789 Speaker 4: Diary of a Birth was hosted by me Casenulu Kitch 621 00:28:51,829 --> 00:28:55,149 Speaker 4: with expert input from doctor Pat. This week, we'd love 622 00:28:55,189 --> 00:28:57,709 Speaker 4: to hear from you. We've created a survey in the 623 00:28:57,749 --> 00:29:01,469 Speaker 4: show notes for your participation. We've also got four fifty 624 00:29:01,469 --> 00:29:04,829 Speaker 4: dollars gift vouchers up for grabs, so tell us what 625 00:29:04,869 --> 00:29:08,909 Speaker 4: you think. This episode was produced by Lee Stamps and myself, 626 00:29:09,029 --> 00:29:12,709 Speaker 4: Casanuelu Kitch, with audio production by Leopolgis