WEBVTT - How To Nail Networking, Even When it Feels Super Awkward 0:00:06.570 --> 0:00:10.610 You're listening to a Mum with Me podcast. 0:00:13.370 --> 0:00:17.730 Hello and welcome to BIS your work life Sorted. I'm 0:00:17.850 --> 0:00:20.690 m Vernum and today we're diving into something that makes 0:00:20.730 --> 0:00:23.889 most of us want to crawl under our desks and hide. 0:00:23.970 --> 0:00:24.850 It's networking. 0:00:25.450 --> 0:00:26.970 So you know that feeling when you walk into a 0:00:27.050 --> 0:00:29.889 room full of strangers and your brain immediately goes, nah, 0:00:30.010 --> 0:00:32.409 I'm getting out of here. Let's go grab a coffee 0:00:32.410 --> 0:00:35.409 and pick your brain. Those phrases actually make me cringe 0:00:35.650 --> 0:00:39.130 so hard, which is why today our career coaches Michelle 0:00:39.130 --> 0:00:42.530 Battersby and Sohurst are breaking down networking in a way 0:00:42.570 --> 0:00:45.809 that actually makes sense. And spoiler alert, it's not all 0:00:45.850 --> 0:00:49.250 awkward small talk over warm wine and stale cheese platters. 0:00:49.690 --> 0:00:52.449 Michelle's going to share how she turned the traditional networking 0:00:52.490 --> 0:00:55.650 model on its head with her genius anti network events, 0:00:55.930 --> 0:00:58.130 while sof reveals how she built one of the most 0:00:58.170 --> 0:01:02.170 powerful professional networks and texts by sitting in a gutter, yes, 0:01:02.450 --> 0:01:06.369 actually a gutter. Plus, they're sharing their exacts for cold 0:01:06.569 --> 0:01:09.530 LinkedIn outreach that won't make you want to die inside. 0:01:09.569 --> 0:01:12.130 Trust me, I've used them before and it's absolutely genius. 0:01:12.890 --> 0:01:17.649 Today we are talking about networking Now, when I was 0:01:17.690 --> 0:01:21.249 researching for this topic, I realize that there are five 0:01:21.410 --> 0:01:26.770 different categories that networking can be broken into, and some 0:01:26.809 --> 0:01:30.529 of them I feel really drawn towards. Others I feel 0:01:30.569 --> 0:01:34.130 disgusted and turned off by them. But I also felt 0:01:34.170 --> 0:01:37.209 like it was really interesting to see networking broken down 0:01:37.209 --> 0:01:40.009 in this way because it also reminded me how many 0:01:40.050 --> 0:01:43.289 different options are out there, and I think you don't 0:01:43.330 --> 0:01:45.770 have to do them all. So the five different categories 0:01:45.850 --> 0:01:50.010 are traditional networking, which is your corporate events, happy hours, 0:01:50.050 --> 0:01:52.730 professional clubs. That one gives me the ick a little bit, 0:01:53.250 --> 0:01:59.249 strategic curated networking like warm intros, small group dinners, and 0:01:59.290 --> 0:02:03.210 paid exclusive clubs. The third one is digital and social 0:02:03.250 --> 0:02:08.490 networking like cold intro social networks like LinkedIn and online 0:02:08.530 --> 0:02:13.090 communities and slack groups. Then we've got casual networking, which 0:02:13.130 --> 0:02:17.410 is coworking, spaces, gyms, retreats. That one sounds, you know, nice, 0:02:18.090 --> 0:02:22.450 And the fifth one is service based networking like mentoring, 0:02:22.570 --> 0:02:24.330 collaborations and partnerships. 0:02:24.530 --> 0:02:26.410 I've never thought about it like that before. It was 0:02:26.530 --> 0:02:27.730 very interesting getting that breakdown. 0:02:28.010 --> 0:02:30.730 It broadened my mind a little bit, and I think 0:02:30.770 --> 0:02:33.090 before the episode, I was feeling like, oh, you know what, 0:02:33.170 --> 0:02:35.570 I don't do that much networking, but then I realized 0:02:35.570 --> 0:02:38.330 I actually do. Like I'm a part of slack communities, 0:02:38.650 --> 0:02:41.210 I'm a part of smaller groups. But I think when 0:02:41.250 --> 0:02:45.330 we think networking sometimes we just go towards the obvious choice, 0:02:45.370 --> 0:02:50.650 which is these sterile, rigid, corporate mixer type events, and 0:02:50.690 --> 0:02:53.370 it can make you feel a little bit icky. A 0:02:53.450 --> 0:02:55.970 reframe I did a few years ago was actually just 0:02:55.970 --> 0:02:58.890 to remove the word networking and think about it like 0:02:59.050 --> 0:03:02.330 you're actually just making friends. It's being social, it's putting 0:03:02.370 --> 0:03:05.050 yourself out there. It doesn't need to feel big and bad. 0:03:05.130 --> 0:03:07.170 And I totally agree. 0:03:07.250 --> 0:03:10.650 I think networking is gross, but having a network is 0:03:10.770 --> 0:03:12.730 very cool. And so it's sort of like throw away 0:03:12.770 --> 0:03:15.570 everything that you thought networking was, and we're gonna show 0:03:15.570 --> 0:03:17.530 you a better way to do it. But can I 0:03:17.570 --> 0:03:20.850 tell you something of Michelle please. So I have had 0:03:20.970 --> 0:03:23.090 four sort of like big girl jobs in my career, 0:03:23.170 --> 0:03:26.610 and then at Google I changed product areas or departments 0:03:26.650 --> 0:03:29.850 five times, which technically you're meant to interview four, but 0:03:29.930 --> 0:03:33.290 I've only ever interviewed for one of those jobs, and 0:03:33.330 --> 0:03:35.130 that was the job at Google. I interviewed for that. 0:03:35.770 --> 0:03:37.530 And so how did I get all the other jobs 0:03:37.570 --> 0:03:41.130 and change departments at Google so many times. Network that's it. 0:03:41.290 --> 0:03:44.050 Like I was always approached for the job, and that 0:03:44.250 --> 0:03:46.890 just came down to people knowing me, knowing my work, 0:03:46.930 --> 0:03:50.050 and then coming after me. Basically. So everyone uses their 0:03:50.050 --> 0:03:53.490 network in different ways, but for me, my experience is 0:03:53.570 --> 0:03:57.170 that it has pretty much bought me every good opportunity 0:03:57.250 --> 0:03:59.930 in my career. I'm pretty pro Yeah. 0:03:59.810 --> 0:04:02.890 You have just reminded me of a quote I heard once, 0:04:03.130 --> 0:04:07.250 which is your network is your net worth. 0:04:07.530 --> 0:04:08.410 Yeah. I love that. 0:04:08.730 --> 0:04:11.810 Yeah, I feel like that just describes your career path. 0:04:12.010 --> 0:04:13.850 Yes, exactly, And I think that's sort of what this 0:04:13.890 --> 0:04:16.290 episode's about, right, So, like Michelle you as well. Like 0:04:16.370 --> 0:04:17.969 I thought it was so genius when I saw you 0:04:18.050 --> 0:04:20.570 doing these anti network events because I was like, that's it. 0:04:20.570 --> 0:04:23.690 It's like everything you think about networking, throw that away, 0:04:23.770 --> 0:04:25.890 and it's like the opposite of that. So I love 0:04:26.090 --> 0:04:28.969 that event series that you run. What's cool about this 0:04:29.050 --> 0:04:31.210 episode in a way, I think you and I are 0:04:31.770 --> 0:04:33.890 kind of giving away our secrets in that we've got 0:04:33.930 --> 0:04:35.610 quite a unique approach in that I think we've both 0:04:35.650 --> 0:04:38.210 found networking to be incredibly useful in our own careers. 0:04:38.530 --> 0:04:42.210 But also because we do have some level of public profile, 0:04:42.490 --> 0:04:44.570 people will often try to network with us, Like I 0:04:44.570 --> 0:04:46.490 have lots of people reaching out to me online, and 0:04:46.530 --> 0:04:48.690 so I also see the like dos and don'ts for 0:04:48.730 --> 0:04:50.490 people like trying to network with you as well. So 0:04:50.930 --> 0:04:52.970 just gonna be sharing all this today, which I think 0:04:53.010 --> 0:04:54.890 is gonna make it a really interesting episode for everyone. 0:04:55.130 --> 0:04:58.529 Yeah, I'm really excited to share our experiences as well 0:04:58.690 --> 0:05:01.930 and what we've seen from both sides. So what can 0:05:01.970 --> 0:05:03.810 everyone expect from the episode today? 0:05:03.970 --> 0:05:06.089 Yeah, I think we're gonna be telling you what to 0:05:06.170 --> 0:05:10.010 avoid and what to do instead, even like small details 0:05:10.130 --> 0:05:12.210 like exactly where to stand at an event so you 0:05:12.210 --> 0:05:14.930 don't get trapped in the dud zone. But overall, I 0:05:14.930 --> 0:05:16.330 think this is going to give you a bit of 0:05:16.370 --> 0:05:18.610 a playbook for how you can make networking work for 0:05:18.690 --> 0:05:19.090 your career. 0:05:20.770 --> 0:05:32.370 Country Countrie. So, so if you mentioned the Anti Network, 0:05:32.450 --> 0:05:35.930 which has become a bit of a passion project for me, 0:05:36.090 --> 0:05:39.690 I suppose, And it happened a few years ago. I 0:05:39.730 --> 0:05:42.210 caught up with a friend of mine who's a founder, 0:05:42.290 --> 0:05:43.930 and it was at a time where I was feeling 0:05:44.330 --> 0:05:47.410 really down in the dumps. I think as a business 0:05:47.410 --> 0:05:51.170 owner or honestly, anyone who's pursuing their career pretty aggressively, 0:05:51.370 --> 0:05:54.169 sometimes you can just not feel that happy or proud 0:05:54.250 --> 0:05:56.570 or like you're where you're meant to be. And I 0:05:56.730 --> 0:05:59.650 was in this lull where I just wasn't feeling it, 0:05:59.690 --> 0:06:02.170 and I realized that I just really went inward and 0:06:02.210 --> 0:06:05.530 closed off, and I stopped sharing things online because I 0:06:05.570 --> 0:06:08.090 think that's often the hardest time to show up. And 0:06:08.130 --> 0:06:11.170 I caught up with a friend shared this ended up 0:06:11.250 --> 0:06:13.930 feeling very validated by them. So I went out on 0:06:13.970 --> 0:06:16.290 my socials and shared that I was finding it a 0:06:16.330 --> 0:06:19.610 pretty isolating journey and that I was finding it hard 0:06:19.610 --> 0:06:22.529 to connect with people, and that I didn't really feel 0:06:22.570 --> 0:06:25.250 like there were many networking opportunities out there where I 0:06:25.250 --> 0:06:27.409 felt like I could show up and not feel like 0:06:27.450 --> 0:06:29.130 I have to fake it till I make it or 0:06:29.170 --> 0:06:32.050 pretend that I'm killing it. And it was in sharing 0:06:32.090 --> 0:06:35.530 that that I just got inundated by people feeling the same, 0:06:35.610 --> 0:06:38.170 and not just founders, like people in exact roles or 0:06:38.210 --> 0:06:41.370 people leading teams. I feel like those roles can often 0:06:41.410 --> 0:06:44.770 be quite isolating, and so I ended up saying, you know, 0:06:44.850 --> 0:06:47.849 if I came to Sydney and Melbourne and did a 0:06:47.890 --> 0:06:51.250 get together that was like the antidote to how you 0:06:51.290 --> 0:06:55.450 normally feel in these networking environments. Would you be interested? 0:06:55.810 --> 0:06:58.850 And I ended up collecting a list of four hundred 0:06:59.570 --> 0:07:00.970 people's email addresses. 0:07:01.250 --> 0:07:03.050 I didn't know this story. 0:07:03.610 --> 0:07:06.690 Yeah yeah, And that was kind of the start of 0:07:07.170 --> 0:07:11.090 the Anti Network. I decided to pretty simple iteration on 0:07:11.690 --> 0:07:15.250 the antidote, but I called it the anti network. And 0:07:15.690 --> 0:07:18.410 I did these pop up events in Sydney and in Melbourne, 0:07:18.410 --> 0:07:20.690 and the very first thing I got people to do 0:07:20.770 --> 0:07:24.130 when they entered the room was I created a wall 0:07:24.250 --> 0:07:27.370 which was just called the insecurity Wall, and I got 0:07:27.410 --> 0:07:29.690 everyone to write on a post at what their biggest 0:07:29.770 --> 0:07:33.170 career insecurity is as they walked into the room. And 0:07:33.370 --> 0:07:35.770 I think it just set the tone that this isn't 0:07:35.770 --> 0:07:38.010 a place where you have to pretend. You don't have 0:07:38.050 --> 0:07:40.010 to act like you've got your shit together, like you 0:07:40.050 --> 0:07:42.490 don't have to wear a mask. But the reason why 0:07:42.530 --> 0:07:44.930 I'm sharing this is because I think it's just a 0:07:44.970 --> 0:07:48.970 good reminder to know that most people hate networking, and 0:07:49.610 --> 0:07:53.890 most people dislike the environment, and people don't really want 0:07:53.890 --> 0:07:56.130 to fake it and they want to make genuine connection. 0:07:56.810 --> 0:08:00.010 So we're kind of all in the same boat, I 0:08:00.130 --> 0:08:03.450 actually think when it comes to networking. But I'd love 0:08:03.530 --> 0:08:07.810 to know, Yeah, like what your experience been with networking 0:08:08.050 --> 0:08:10.250 and I guess what you've seen as well. 0:08:10.290 --> 0:08:12.930 On the other side, Yeah, I fully agree with everything 0:08:12.930 --> 0:08:16.130 you just said. I see three big things that people 0:08:16.210 --> 0:08:19.410 typically get wrong. And so for the first one, I 0:08:19.490 --> 0:08:23.410 want to tell you very quickly about the most transformational 0:08:23.730 --> 0:08:26.850 professional network I've ever been part of. It was founded 0:08:26.890 --> 0:08:29.330 in two thousand and eight in the streets of Surry Hills, 0:08:29.770 --> 0:08:32.410 literally the streets because it was called Gutter Club, and 0:08:32.490 --> 0:08:36.010 it was just a collective of early career people working 0:08:36.050 --> 0:08:38.770 in tech and creative roles. And we would meet every 0:08:38.810 --> 0:08:42.050 Tuesday outside single origin and we would drink coffee and 0:08:42.050 --> 0:08:44.530 sit in the gutter and talk about plans to take 0:08:44.570 --> 0:08:46.770 over the world and help each other. And you know, 0:08:46.810 --> 0:08:48.850 it started from three people and then ended up being 0:08:48.850 --> 0:08:52.250 sort of twenty sometimes thirty people consistently every Tuesday, and 0:08:52.290 --> 0:08:54.170 that was it. It was very simple. There was no 0:08:54.290 --> 0:08:56.770 more to it than that. And the reason it has 0:08:56.810 --> 0:09:00.010 been the best professional network of my life is because 0:09:00.050 --> 0:09:02.690 all these people we were nobodies at the time. We 0:09:02.690 --> 0:09:04.450 were just young, you know, trying to come up in 0:09:04.490 --> 0:09:06.730 our career and now everyone is you know, cut to 0:09:06.770 --> 0:09:10.450 a decade later. Everyone is at the top of their field. 0:09:10.570 --> 0:09:13.250 So there's like, you know, founders of Unicorn startups and 0:09:13.690 --> 0:09:18.929 partners at VC firms and authors and heads of record labels, anethetists, whatever, 0:09:19.010 --> 0:09:21.330 Like everyone is running their own business and amazing. And 0:09:21.410 --> 0:09:23.210 there was nothing special about that group of people. We 0:09:23.210 --> 0:09:25.290 were just a group of people who who did it. 0:09:25.530 --> 0:09:27.690 But the point is like we grew up with each 0:09:27.690 --> 0:09:30.890 other and so I could never have these like deep 0:09:31.010 --> 0:09:33.810 relationships if I was trying to build that collective now. 0:09:34.210 --> 0:09:35.770 The trick to kind of doing that is you have 0:09:35.850 --> 0:09:37.410 to sort of brand it in a way and make 0:09:37.450 --> 0:09:40.370 it a thing. Otherwise it's just hanging out. You need consistency, 0:09:40.410 --> 0:09:41.890 and you sort of need a bit of a ring 0:09:41.970 --> 0:09:43.770 leader or someone to keep the vibes going, Otherwise the 0:09:43.850 --> 0:09:45.130 momentum can get lost. 0:09:45.250 --> 0:09:47.650 I want us to help everyone find their GUTA club. 0:09:48.090 --> 0:09:50.090 Is it still going today or do you have a 0:09:50.090 --> 0:09:51.250 group chat or something. 0:09:51.370 --> 0:09:53.250 We don't meet up anymore, but it's like we still 0:09:53.250 --> 0:09:55.809 help each other. So I use this like daily weekly. 0:09:55.930 --> 0:09:58.210 I hit people up and the thing is I do 0:09:58.250 --> 0:10:00.050 see people doing this, so just a couple examples that 0:10:00.050 --> 0:10:02.490 I've seen recently of people doing the same thing. There's 0:10:02.490 --> 0:10:05.170 one I saw the other day called Marketing and Margs, 0:10:05.210 --> 0:10:07.929 and it's basically young people who work in marketing meeting 0:10:08.010 --> 0:10:11.170 up every month to have margaritas and chat. There's another 0:10:11.210 --> 0:10:14.410 one of young entrepreneurial women called Beyond Besties. They've got 0:10:14.490 --> 0:10:16.809 incredible Slack group and then the most amazing meetups where 0:10:16.850 --> 0:10:19.770 they talk about very interesting topics from like making money 0:10:19.810 --> 0:10:21.650 to like your star signs and what that means for 0:10:21.730 --> 0:10:24.130 were So, I do see lots of these groups people doing, 0:10:24.210 --> 0:10:26.570 you know, run clubs and swim clubs and stuff. Have 0:10:26.690 --> 0:10:28.329 you seen some too? We could actually, you know, what 0:10:28.370 --> 0:10:30.570 we should do. We should post this on LinkedIn and 0:10:30.570 --> 0:10:32.370 maybe tag some of the people who are running these 0:10:32.370 --> 0:10:34.770 clubs and create a space for people to promote their 0:10:34.810 --> 0:10:37.530 little groups and collectives that they've got as well. Would 0:10:37.570 --> 0:10:37.930 be cool. 0:10:38.130 --> 0:10:40.090 Yeah, I love that because I think when you like 0:10:40.170 --> 0:10:43.770 a niche in on something as well, it can feel 0:10:43.850 --> 0:10:46.650 like less scary to join, and like you've all got 0:10:46.730 --> 0:10:50.970 common challenges or common goals, and so it's a slightly 0:10:51.050 --> 0:10:54.970 less intimidating environment than like a traditional larger networking event 0:10:55.010 --> 0:10:57.370 as well. I would love us to get some DMS 0:10:57.450 --> 0:10:59.490 like a month or two from now, saying that we've 0:10:59.770 --> 0:11:03.050 helped people find their gutter clubs. So yeah, let's help 0:11:03.090 --> 0:11:05.890 everyone get there. What should people not do? Like, what 0:11:05.930 --> 0:11:07.449 are you seeing people get wrong? 0:11:07.650 --> 0:11:09.930 You need some kind of unique premise, right, so like 0:11:10.050 --> 0:11:12.770 decide who your audience is, decide kind of what the 0:11:12.850 --> 0:11:14.809 vibe is going to be. You do need to brand, 0:11:15.170 --> 0:11:17.850 like give it a name, and have some consistency, so 0:11:17.850 --> 0:11:20.650 whether it's monthly meetups or you know, or weekly whatever 0:11:20.690 --> 0:11:24.010 it is. Nowadays you would have your community groups or 0:11:24.050 --> 0:11:26.010 you're you know, you'd have a website for it whatever. 0:11:26.570 --> 0:11:29.650 So that's number one that people get wrong, so thinking 0:11:29.690 --> 0:11:31.810 that you can only network up when really you can 0:11:31.850 --> 0:11:34.650 build your own network. Number two thing that people get 0:11:34.690 --> 0:11:37.250 wrong is the worst time to try and build a 0:11:37.290 --> 0:11:40.170 network is when you need something. So for example, you're 0:11:40.170 --> 0:11:41.730 trying to find a new job and you all of 0:11:41.770 --> 0:11:43.810 a sudden want to start networking with people. The best 0:11:43.850 --> 0:11:46.170 time to build your network is right now. It's an 0:11:46.210 --> 0:11:49.050 always on thing and that's how you need to approach it. 0:11:49.450 --> 0:11:52.690 I think that's especially true of internal networking at your company. 0:11:52.770 --> 0:11:55.290 Don't try and like make friends with stakeholders right before 0:11:55.290 --> 0:11:56.650 you want to get promoted and you want them to 0:11:56.650 --> 0:11:58.290 give you a peer review. You should be making those 0:11:58.330 --> 0:12:00.970 relationships all the time. So just a couple of quick 0:12:00.970 --> 0:12:03.090 tips Michelle, in terms of the things that I've seen 0:12:03.130 --> 0:12:06.010 that will help people. If you have, you know, loose 0:12:06.010 --> 0:12:08.650 connections with people, or maybe it's people you've met in person, 0:12:08.770 --> 0:12:10.850 or you've kind of got these connections on LinkedIn, you're like, well, 0:12:10.850 --> 0:12:13.890 how do I maintain those relationships with them? So the 0:12:13.930 --> 0:12:16.330 things that I've seen that I think work really well 0:12:16.370 --> 0:12:19.730 to this sort of always on approach to networking. If 0:12:19.770 --> 0:12:21.850 you sort of met someone and you saw them speak 0:12:21.850 --> 0:12:23.490 in an event to maybe you connected with them and 0:12:23.490 --> 0:12:25.250 you haven't spoken to them for a couple of months, 0:12:25.810 --> 0:12:28.690 if something that they taught you then has an impact 0:12:28.770 --> 0:12:31.130 on you, go and tell them so be like, you 0:12:31.170 --> 0:12:33.090 know that thing that you said in that event two 0:12:33.130 --> 0:12:35.530 months ago, this is how it kind of changed something 0:12:35.530 --> 0:12:37.410 that I did. So go back and tell them that 0:12:37.570 --> 0:12:39.930 is the most powerful thing. People love you for that, 0:12:40.010 --> 0:12:43.610 no matter how senor they are. Sharing recommendations works really Also, 0:12:43.610 --> 0:12:45.010 I have lots of young people who'd be like, I 0:12:45.010 --> 0:12:47.450 thought you'd like this for this specific reason and they'll 0:12:47.490 --> 0:12:50.050 share me like a link to something. Make it specific 0:12:50.130 --> 0:12:52.450 and make sure you're telling the person sort of why 0:12:52.570 --> 0:12:55.090 you think that they would like it, or just like 0:12:55.170 --> 0:12:57.410 have some kind of consistent activity that you do together. 0:12:57.410 --> 0:12:58.890 So I have people where I'm trying to maintain my 0:12:58.930 --> 0:13:01.690 relationships with them in my network and will do like 0:13:01.730 --> 0:13:05.930 a monthly exercise thing together. So that's number two. Your 0:13:05.930 --> 0:13:08.810 network isn't always on thing. And then number three is 0:13:09.490 --> 0:13:12.930 give first, never take, So try to be a helper. 0:13:13.050 --> 0:13:15.850 Have that mindset, so go into it. Your network in 0:13:15.890 --> 0:13:18.209 a way is like a bank account, and in your 0:13:18.210 --> 0:13:20.930 relationship with someone, you want to be building up a 0:13:20.930 --> 0:13:24.050 bank of deposits before you start to make withdrawals. So 0:13:24.410 --> 0:13:27.130 I think, just a couple of quick examples of what 0:13:27.170 --> 0:13:29.410 you can give or how you can be a helper, 0:13:29.770 --> 0:13:32.809 especially like early career, Well what can I be possibly 0:13:32.810 --> 0:13:37.250 giving to someone more senior? First thing, intelligent responses to 0:13:37.250 --> 0:13:39.970 stuff they're posting online is like people think, oh, this 0:13:40.010 --> 0:13:41.850 person's got so many followers, they won't care about what 0:13:41.890 --> 0:13:44.330 I say. They honestly do, so like engage in their 0:13:44.370 --> 0:13:47.090 posts and have don't just do a generic like loved this, 0:13:47.930 --> 0:13:50.850 have an intelligent sort of response to something they've written. 0:13:51.290 --> 0:13:53.010 And the other one that I love. Someone did this 0:13:53.050 --> 0:13:55.569 to me the other day. Someone took a you know 0:13:55.650 --> 0:13:59.690 something that I posted on TikTok. They then created a 0:14:00.010 --> 0:14:02.530 sort of extended little summary of what it was and 0:14:02.530 --> 0:14:04.130 some thoughts that they had on it, and they put 0:14:04.170 --> 0:14:06.050 it into a doc for me. It was about the 0:14:06.050 --> 0:14:08.370 topic of you know, respond, don't react, and they put 0:14:08.370 --> 0:14:10.930 it into this document that was something that I could 0:14:10.930 --> 0:14:12.970 share with other people. That was like this beautiful little 0:14:13.010 --> 0:14:15.970 one pager. So now when I'm having mentoring sessions with 0:14:16.050 --> 0:14:17.850 other people and I was like, oh, I've got this point, 0:14:18.050 --> 0:14:19.530 I link them and I was like, here's a doc 0:14:19.570 --> 0:14:22.290 about it. So this person essentially like made a massive 0:14:22.330 --> 0:14:24.770 shortcut for me and created something that I will now 0:14:24.890 --> 0:14:27.810 use every day. Michelle, you'd probably have some great tips 0:14:27.810 --> 0:14:28.250 on this too. 0:14:28.450 --> 0:14:30.730 I just love that last one so much. And the 0:14:30.770 --> 0:14:33.370 analogy of the bank account, I think is spot on 0:14:33.570 --> 0:14:37.570 and makes it really easy to understand and also to 0:14:37.650 --> 0:14:40.650 potentially put yourself in the position of the person who's 0:14:40.690 --> 0:14:43.410 being asked as well, because I think for me, the 0:14:43.450 --> 0:14:47.610 biggest turn off is when it feels too transactional and 0:14:48.130 --> 0:14:51.810 you know there can be transactional elements to it. I've 0:14:51.810 --> 0:14:53.930 got an example of something that happened recently, and it 0:14:53.970 --> 0:14:57.810 made me feel really weird because I love helping other 0:14:57.850 --> 0:15:00.330 people and like, wherever I can, you know, like, I'll 0:15:00.530 --> 0:15:03.810 give the intro, I'll give the opportunity, I'll give the information, 0:15:04.090 --> 0:15:07.690 and so it makes me feel incredibly conflicted when someone 0:15:07.690 --> 0:15:10.330 then hits me up and I feel like their ask 0:15:10.570 --> 0:15:15.690 is crossing a line potentially. So I had someone introduced 0:15:15.690 --> 0:15:18.090 to me through a warm intro, and when the warm 0:15:18.130 --> 0:15:20.610 intro was brought to me, it was that this person 0:15:20.730 --> 0:15:22.970 was looking for some advice on how to build their 0:15:22.970 --> 0:15:25.090 personal brand and show up online. So I was like, sure, 0:15:25.090 --> 0:15:27.410 one hundred pcent, I ll chat to that person. Then 0:15:27.490 --> 0:15:30.890 the person reached out to me and actually just asked 0:15:30.890 --> 0:15:34.050 me to introduce them to two semi famous people that 0:15:34.130 --> 0:15:38.210 I know, and I was like, ah, like, I barely 0:15:38.370 --> 0:15:40.570 know you, and now you're asking for some of the 0:15:40.610 --> 0:15:43.170 most prolific people in my own network, and you kind 0:15:43.210 --> 0:15:46.490 of want me to put myself out to make those 0:15:46.530 --> 0:15:48.890 introts for you and I barely know you and there's 0:15:48.930 --> 0:15:52.410 been no exchange here whatsoever. 0:15:52.770 --> 0:15:55.250 Yeah, it's so transparent. Isn't it what people really want? 0:15:55.250 --> 0:15:58.090 I know, you can really read when people haven't taken 0:15:58.130 --> 0:15:59.410 the time to get to know you, they don't really 0:15:59.450 --> 0:16:01.130 care about you, they just want having from you. 0:16:01.210 --> 0:16:03.530 It's so easy to see. It kind of makes you 0:16:03.530 --> 0:16:04.450 feel like shit. 0:16:05.730 --> 0:16:07.250 It's like you don't care about me at all, you 0:16:07.330 --> 0:16:09.530 just want something from me. And the flip side, like, 0:16:09.570 --> 0:16:11.450 I really see when people get in touch with me 0:16:11.570 --> 0:16:13.330 and they have taken the time to get to know me, 0:16:13.370 --> 0:16:15.730 they write something personal. You can see when people have 0:16:15.770 --> 0:16:17.690 to do these generic things that you can tell they're 0:16:17.730 --> 0:16:19.770 just sending everyone the one that I'm getting all the time. 0:16:19.810 --> 0:16:22.290 At the moment, I used to think this was good, 0:16:22.290 --> 0:16:24.250 but now I've seen it so many times that I'm 0:16:24.290 --> 0:16:26.050 just like, oh, this is just like a canned thing 0:16:26.090 --> 0:16:29.770 people send is they'll say, really like your content, can 0:16:29.810 --> 0:16:32.330 you give me one book recommendation? They basically just try 0:16:32.370 --> 0:16:34.450 to ask you a question, anything that will hook you 0:16:34.490 --> 0:16:37.370 into responding. But I've seen that so many times now 0:16:37.370 --> 0:16:39.970 that I'm just like too generic. So just like, really, 0:16:39.970 --> 0:16:42.370 if you're going to reach out to someone, spend fifteen 0:16:42.410 --> 0:16:45.050 minutes getting to know them and actually like give a 0:16:45.050 --> 0:16:47.850 shit about them before you go and ask them for something. 0:16:48.090 --> 0:16:51.930 I also think your example of engaging in their content. 0:16:52.090 --> 0:16:54.530 It's so simple and so easy for you to do, 0:16:54.730 --> 0:16:56.890 and it really does make a difference. Like when I 0:16:56.930 --> 0:17:00.010 was at Bumble, we had a whole Bumble Honey cohort, 0:17:00.090 --> 0:17:03.370 so we essentially had like thirty interns at once, and 0:17:03.490 --> 0:17:05.489 so many of those interns I still have real life 0:17:05.490 --> 0:17:08.490 relationships with and will help out. And it's because we're 0:17:08.609 --> 0:17:11.810 kind of always casually chatting in DMS, and like they've 0:17:11.810 --> 0:17:14.210 made a bit of an effort to maintain the relationship 0:17:14.290 --> 0:17:15.810 and it does pay off. 0:17:16.210 --> 0:17:19.209 I love that. The other point that you made, Michelle 0:17:19.250 --> 0:17:22.369 around it being transactional. The more senior you get, the 0:17:22.410 --> 0:17:26.369 longer you have these relationships for It's so cool in 0:17:26.450 --> 0:17:28.330 terms of the favors people are willing to do, but 0:17:28.450 --> 0:17:30.570 you have to build up to that, right, So, like 0:17:30.650 --> 0:17:33.090 I see, that's kind of the way stuff gets done 0:17:33.090 --> 0:17:36.530 when you're at the most senior level. People do insane 0:17:36.970 --> 0:17:39.450 favors for each other move mountains because they know at 0:17:39.450 --> 0:17:41.649 some point that person's going to pay them back. But 0:17:41.770 --> 0:17:42.730 you can't start with that. 0:17:43.050 --> 0:17:46.450 Okay, so we've run through what not to do up next, 0:17:46.490 --> 0:17:49.010 we'll give you five tips that will get you off 0:17:49.050 --> 0:18:00.610 to a great stuff. All right, So we've covered what 0:18:00.650 --> 0:18:03.610 people are getting wrong when it comes to networking and 0:18:03.770 --> 0:18:05.969 how you should be thinking about it. Now we're going 0:18:06.010 --> 0:18:09.330 to get into the practical gems that Sofa and I 0:18:09.410 --> 0:18:12.650 have collected. Some of them we've collected from others, some 0:18:12.730 --> 0:18:16.010 of them are our own. So Tip one is how 0:18:16.050 --> 0:18:20.170 to nail where you stand in the room. I found 0:18:20.250 --> 0:18:22.970 this on TikTok and I just loved it because it 0:18:23.010 --> 0:18:26.250 was really simple, and it's from a CEO and author 0:18:26.250 --> 0:18:28.690 whose name is Krystal. Will include her the link to 0:18:28.730 --> 0:18:32.450 her TikTok account in the show notes, but she kind 0:18:32.530 --> 0:18:36.290 of unpacked my biggest fear, I think, and why I 0:18:36.490 --> 0:18:39.810 find those more traditional networking events so uncomfortable, because it 0:18:39.850 --> 0:18:42.450 actually starts for me from the moment you enter the 0:18:42.490 --> 0:18:45.690 room where it's like deer in headlights? What the fuck 0:18:45.770 --> 0:18:47.290 is going on? Who do I know? 0:18:47.490 --> 0:18:47.730 Here? 0:18:48.130 --> 0:18:50.770 Where do I stand? Am I going to get trapped? 0:18:51.170 --> 0:18:54.690 So this TikTok video talks about there being three different 0:18:54.810 --> 0:18:58.450 zones when it comes to networking. The first zone is 0:18:58.490 --> 0:19:02.250 the entry zone, and this is where you absolutely do 0:19:02.330 --> 0:19:05.730 not want to stand, So don't come into the room 0:19:05.770 --> 0:19:09.530 and just hang around in that entry zone because as 0:19:09.570 --> 0:19:12.010 people are coming in, you might end up in a 0:19:12.010 --> 0:19:14.170 conversation with them, but they're going to be looking over 0:19:14.210 --> 0:19:16.570