Speaker 1: You're listening to a Mum with Me podcast.
Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to BIS your work life Sorted. I'm
Speaker 2: m Vernum and today we're diving into something that makes
Speaker 2: most of us want to crawl under our desks and hide.
Speaker 3: It's networking.
Speaker 2: So you know that feeling when you walk into a
Speaker 2: room full of strangers and your brain immediately goes, nah,
Speaker 2: I'm getting out of here. Let's go grab a coffee
Speaker 2: and pick your brain. Those phrases actually make me cringe
Speaker 2: so hard, which is why today our career coaches Michelle
Speaker 2: Battersby and Sohurst are breaking down networking in a way
Speaker 2: that actually makes sense. And spoiler alert, it's not all
Speaker 2: awkward small talk over warm wine and stale cheese platters.
Speaker 2: Michelle's going to share how she turned the traditional networking
Speaker 2: model on its head with her genius anti network events,
Speaker 2: while sof reveals how she built one of the most
Speaker 2: powerful professional networks and texts by sitting in a gutter, yes,
Speaker 2: actually a gutter. Plus, they're sharing their exacts for cold
Speaker 2: LinkedIn outreach that won't make you want to die inside.
Speaker 2: Trust me, I've used them before and it's absolutely genius.
Speaker 3: Today we are talking about networking Now, when I was
Speaker 3: researching for this topic, I realize that there are five
Speaker 3: different categories that networking can be broken into, and some
Speaker 3: of them I feel really drawn towards. Others I feel
Speaker 3: disgusted and turned off by them. But I also felt
Speaker 3: like it was really interesting to see networking broken down
Speaker 3: in this way because it also reminded me how many
Speaker 3: different options are out there, and I think you don't
Speaker 3: have to do them all. So the five different categories
Speaker 3: are traditional networking, which is your corporate events, happy hours,
Speaker 3: professional clubs. That one gives me the ick a little bit,
Speaker 3: strategic curated networking like warm intros, small group dinners, and
Speaker 3: paid exclusive clubs. The third one is digital and social
Speaker 3: networking like cold intro social networks like LinkedIn and online
Speaker 3: communities and slack groups. Then we've got casual networking, which
Speaker 3: is coworking, spaces, gyms, retreats. That one sounds, you know, nice,
Speaker 3: And the fifth one is service based networking like mentoring,
Speaker 3: collaborations and partnerships.
Speaker 1: I've never thought about it like that before. It was
Speaker 1: very interesting getting that breakdown.
Speaker 3: It broadened my mind a little bit, and I think
Speaker 3: before the episode, I was feeling like, oh, you know what,
Speaker 3: I don't do that much networking, but then I realized
Speaker 3: I actually do. Like I'm a part of slack communities,
Speaker 3: I'm a part of smaller groups. But I think when
Speaker 3: we think networking sometimes we just go towards the obvious choice,
Speaker 3: which is these sterile, rigid, corporate mixer type events, and
Speaker 3: it can make you feel a little bit icky. A
Speaker 3: reframe I did a few years ago was actually just
Speaker 3: to remove the word networking and think about it like
Speaker 3: you're actually just making friends. It's being social, it's putting
Speaker 3: yourself out there. It doesn't need to feel big and bad.
Speaker 3: And I totally agree.
Speaker 1: I think networking is gross, but having a network is
Speaker 1: very cool. And so it's sort of like throw away
Speaker 1: everything that you thought networking was, and we're gonna show
Speaker 1: you a better way to do it. But can I
Speaker 1: tell you something of Michelle please. So I have had
Speaker 1: four sort of like big girl jobs in my career,
Speaker 1: and then at Google I changed product areas or departments
Speaker 1: five times, which technically you're meant to interview four, but
Speaker 1: I've only ever interviewed for one of those jobs, and
Speaker 1: that was the job at Google. I interviewed for that.
Speaker 1: And so how did I get all the other jobs
Speaker 1: and change departments at Google so many times. Network that's it.
Speaker 1: Like I was always approached for the job, and that
Speaker 1: just came down to people knowing me, knowing my work,
Speaker 1: and then coming after me. Basically. So everyone uses their
Speaker 1: network in different ways, but for me, my experience is
Speaker 1: that it has pretty much bought me every good opportunity
Speaker 1: in my career. I'm pretty pro Yeah.
Speaker 3: You have just reminded me of a quote I heard once,
Speaker 3: which is your network is your net worth.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I love that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I feel like that just describes your career path.
Speaker 1: Yes, exactly, And I think that's sort of what this
Speaker 1: episode's about, right, So, like Michelle you as well. Like
Speaker 1: I thought it was so genius when I saw you
Speaker 1: doing these anti network events because I was like, that's it.
Speaker 1: It's like everything you think about networking, throw that away,
Speaker 1: and it's like the opposite of that. So I love
Speaker 1: that event series that you run. What's cool about this
Speaker 1: episode in a way, I think you and I are
Speaker 1: kind of giving away our secrets in that we've got
Speaker 1: quite a unique approach in that I think we've both
Speaker 1: found networking to be incredibly useful in our own careers.
Speaker 1: But also because we do have some level of public profile,
Speaker 1: people will often try to network with us, Like I
Speaker 1: have lots of people reaching out to me online, and
Speaker 1: so I also see the like dos and don'ts for
Speaker 1: people like trying to network with you as well. So
Speaker 1: just gonna be sharing all this today, which I think
Speaker 1: is gonna make it a really interesting episode for everyone.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm really excited to share our experiences as well
Speaker 3: and what we've seen from both sides. So what can
Speaker 3: everyone expect from the episode today?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think we're gonna be telling you what to
Speaker 1: avoid and what to do instead, even like small details
Speaker 1: like exactly where to stand at an event so you
Speaker 1: don't get trapped in the dud zone. But overall, I
Speaker 1: think this is going to give you a bit of
Speaker 1: a playbook for how you can make networking work for
Speaker 1: your career.
Speaker 3: Country Countrie. So, so if you mentioned the Anti Network,
Speaker 3: which has become a bit of a passion project for me,
Speaker 3: I suppose, And it happened a few years ago. I
Speaker 3: caught up with a friend of mine who's a founder,
Speaker 3: and it was at a time where I was feeling
Speaker 3: really down in the dumps. I think as a business
Speaker 3: owner or honestly, anyone who's pursuing their career pretty aggressively,
Speaker 3: sometimes you can just not feel that happy or proud
Speaker 3: or like you're where you're meant to be. And I
Speaker 3: was in this lull where I just wasn't feeling it,
Speaker 3: and I realized that I just really went inward and
Speaker 3: closed off, and I stopped sharing things online because I
Speaker 3: think that's often the hardest time to show up. And
Speaker 3: I caught up with a friend shared this ended up
Speaker 3: feeling very validated by them. So I went out on
Speaker 3: my socials and shared that I was finding it a
Speaker 3: pretty isolating journey and that I was finding it hard
Speaker 3: to connect with people, and that I didn't really feel
Speaker 3: like there were many networking opportunities out there where I
Speaker 3: felt like I could show up and not feel like
Speaker 3: I have to fake it till I make it or
Speaker 3: pretend that I'm killing it. And it was in sharing
Speaker 3: that that I just got inundated by people feeling the same,
Speaker 3: and not just founders, like people in exact roles or
Speaker 3: people leading teams. I feel like those roles can often
Speaker 3: be quite isolating, and so I ended up saying, you know,
Speaker 3: if I came to Sydney and Melbourne and did a
Speaker 3: get together that was like the antidote to how you
Speaker 3: normally feel in these networking environments. Would you be interested?
Speaker 3: And I ended up collecting a list of four hundred
Speaker 3: people's email addresses.
Speaker 1: I didn't know this story.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, And that was kind of the start of
Speaker 3: the Anti Network. I decided to pretty simple iteration on
Speaker 3: the antidote, but I called it the anti network. And
Speaker 3: I did these pop up events in Sydney and in Melbourne,
Speaker 3: and the very first thing I got people to do
Speaker 3: when they entered the room was I created a wall
Speaker 3: which was just called the insecurity Wall, and I got
Speaker 3: everyone to write on a post at what their biggest
Speaker 3: career insecurity is as they walked into the room. And
Speaker 3: I think it just set the tone that this isn't
Speaker 3: a place where you have to pretend. You don't have
Speaker 3: to act like you've got your shit together, like you
Speaker 3: don't have to wear a mask. But the reason why
Speaker 3: I'm sharing this is because I think it's just a
Speaker 3: good reminder to know that most people hate networking, and
Speaker 3: most people dislike the environment, and people don't really want
Speaker 3: to fake it and they want to make genuine connection.
Speaker 3: So we're kind of all in the same boat, I
Speaker 3: actually think when it comes to networking. But I'd love
Speaker 3: to know, Yeah, like what your experience been with networking
Speaker 3: and I guess what you've seen as well.
Speaker 1: On the other side, Yeah, I fully agree with everything
Speaker 1: you just said. I see three big things that people
Speaker 1: typically get wrong. And so for the first one, I
Speaker 1: want to tell you very quickly about the most transformational
Speaker 1: professional network I've ever been part of. It was founded
Speaker 1: in two thousand and eight in the streets of Surry Hills,
Speaker 1: literally the streets because it was called Gutter Club, and
Speaker 1: it was just a collective of early career people working
Speaker 1: in tech and creative roles. And we would meet every
Speaker 1: Tuesday outside single origin and we would drink coffee and
Speaker 1: sit in the gutter and talk about plans to take
Speaker 1: over the world and help each other. And you know,
Speaker 1: it started from three people and then ended up being
Speaker 1: sort of twenty sometimes thirty people consistently every Tuesday, and
Speaker 1: that was it. It was very simple. There was no
Speaker 1: more to it than that. And the reason it has
Speaker 1: been the best professional network of my life is because
Speaker 1: all these people we were nobodies at the time. We
Speaker 1: were just young, you know, trying to come up in
Speaker 1: our career and now everyone is you know, cut to
Speaker 1: a decade later. Everyone is at the top of their field.
Speaker 1: So there's like, you know, founders of Unicorn startups and
Speaker 1: partners at VC firms and authors and heads of record labels, anethetists, whatever,
Speaker 1: Like everyone is running their own business and amazing. And
Speaker 1: there was nothing special about that group of people. We
Speaker 1: were just a group of people who who did it.
Speaker 1: But the point is like we grew up with each
Speaker 1: other and so I could never have these like deep
Speaker 1: relationships if I was trying to build that collective now.
Speaker 1: The trick to kind of doing that is you have
Speaker 1: to sort of brand it in a way and make
Speaker 1: it a thing. Otherwise it's just hanging out. You need consistency,
Speaker 1: and you sort of need a bit of a ring
Speaker 1: leader or someone to keep the vibes going, Otherwise the
Speaker 1: momentum can get lost.
Speaker 3: I want us to help everyone find their GUTA club.
Speaker 3: Is it still going today or do you have a
Speaker 3: group chat or something.
Speaker 1: We don't meet up anymore, but it's like we still
Speaker 1: help each other. So I use this like daily weekly.
Speaker 1: I hit people up and the thing is I do
Speaker 1: see people doing this, so just a couple examples that
Speaker 1: I've seen recently of people doing the same thing. There's
Speaker 1: one I saw the other day called Marketing and Margs,
Speaker 1: and it's basically young people who work in marketing meeting
Speaker 1: up every month to have margaritas and chat. There's another
Speaker 1: one of young entrepreneurial women called Beyond Besties. They've got
Speaker 1: incredible Slack group and then the most amazing meetups where
Speaker 1: they talk about very interesting topics from like making money
Speaker 1: to like your star signs and what that means for
Speaker 1: were So, I do see lots of these groups people doing,
Speaker 1: you know, run clubs and swim clubs and stuff. Have
Speaker 1: you seen some too? We could actually, you know, what
Speaker 1: we should do. We should post this on LinkedIn and
Speaker 1: maybe tag some of the people who are running these
Speaker 1: clubs and create a space for people to promote their
Speaker 1: little groups and collectives that they've got as well. Would
Speaker 1: be cool.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I love that because I think when you like
Speaker 3: a niche in on something as well, it can feel
Speaker 3: like less scary to join, and like you've all got
Speaker 3: common challenges or common goals, and so it's a slightly
Speaker 3: less intimidating environment than like a traditional larger networking event
Speaker 3: as well. I would love us to get some DMS
Speaker 3: like a month or two from now, saying that we've
Speaker 3: helped people find their gutter clubs. So yeah, let's help
Speaker 3: everyone get there. What should people not do? Like, what
Speaker 3: are you seeing people get wrong?
Speaker 1: You need some kind of unique premise, right, so like
Speaker 1: decide who your audience is, decide kind of what the
Speaker 1: vibe is going to be. You do need to brand,
Speaker 1: like give it a name, and have some consistency, so
Speaker 1: whether it's monthly meetups or you know, or weekly whatever
Speaker 1: it is. Nowadays you would have your community groups or
Speaker 1: you're you know, you'd have a website for it whatever.
Speaker 1: So that's number one that people get wrong, so thinking
Speaker 1: that you can only network up when really you can
Speaker 1: build your own network. Number two thing that people get
Speaker 1: wrong is the worst time to try and build a
Speaker 1: network is when you need something. So for example, you're
Speaker 1: trying to find a new job and you all of
Speaker 1: a sudden want to start networking with people. The best
Speaker 1: time to build your network is right now. It's an
Speaker 1: always on thing and that's how you need to approach it.
Speaker 1: I think that's especially true of internal networking at your company.
Speaker 1: Don't try and like make friends with stakeholders right before
Speaker 1: you want to get promoted and you want them to
Speaker 1: give you a peer review. You should be making those
Speaker 1: relationships all the time. So just a couple of quick
Speaker 1: tips Michelle, in terms of the things that I've seen
Speaker 1: that will help people. If you have, you know, loose
Speaker 1: connections with people, or maybe it's people you've met in person,
Speaker 1: or you've kind of got these connections on LinkedIn, you're like, well,
Speaker 1: how do I maintain those relationships with them? So the
Speaker 1: things that I've seen that I think work really well
Speaker 1: to this sort of always on approach to networking. If
Speaker 1: you sort of met someone and you saw them speak
Speaker 1: in an event to maybe you connected with them and
Speaker 1: you haven't spoken to them for a couple of months,
Speaker 1: if something that they taught you then has an impact
Speaker 1: on you, go and tell them so be like, you
Speaker 1: know that thing that you said in that event two
Speaker 1: months ago, this is how it kind of changed something
Speaker 1: that I did. So go back and tell them that
Speaker 1: is the most powerful thing. People love you for that,
Speaker 1: no matter how senor they are. Sharing recommendations works really Also,
Speaker 1: I have lots of young people who'd be like, I
Speaker 1: thought you'd like this for this specific reason and they'll
Speaker 1: share me like a link to something. Make it specific
Speaker 1: and make sure you're telling the person sort of why
Speaker 1: you think that they would like it, or just like
Speaker 1: have some kind of consistent activity that you do together.
Speaker 1: So I have people where I'm trying to maintain my
Speaker 1: relationships with them in my network and will do like
Speaker 1: a monthly exercise thing together. So that's number two. Your
Speaker 1: network isn't always on thing. And then number three is
Speaker 1: give first, never take, So try to be a helper.
Speaker 1: Have that mindset, so go into it. Your network in
Speaker 1: a way is like a bank account, and in your
Speaker 1: relationship with someone, you want to be building up a
Speaker 1: bank of deposits before you start to make withdrawals. So
Speaker 1: I think, just a couple of quick examples of what
Speaker 1: you can give or how you can be a helper,
Speaker 1: especially like early career, Well what can I be possibly
Speaker 1: giving to someone more senior? First thing, intelligent responses to
Speaker 1: stuff they're posting online is like people think, oh, this
Speaker 1: person's got so many followers, they won't care about what
Speaker 1: I say. They honestly do, so like engage in their
Speaker 1: posts and have don't just do a generic like loved this,
Speaker 1: have an intelligent sort of response to something they've written.
Speaker 1: And the other one that I love. Someone did this
Speaker 1: to me the other day. Someone took a you know
Speaker 1: something that I posted on TikTok. They then created a
Speaker 1: sort of extended little summary of what it was and
Speaker 1: some thoughts that they had on it, and they put
Speaker 1: it into a doc for me. It was about the
Speaker 1: topic of you know, respond, don't react, and they put
Speaker 1: it into this document that was something that I could
Speaker 1: share with other people. That was like this beautiful little
Speaker 1: one pager. So now when I'm having mentoring sessions with
Speaker 1: other people and I was like, oh, I've got this point,
Speaker 1: I link them and I was like, here's a doc
Speaker 1: about it. So this person essentially like made a massive
Speaker 1: shortcut for me and created something that I will now
Speaker 1: use every day. Michelle, you'd probably have some great tips
Speaker 1: on this too.
Speaker 3: I just love that last one so much. And the
Speaker 3: analogy of the bank account, I think is spot on
Speaker 3: and makes it really easy to understand and also to
Speaker 3: potentially put yourself in the position of the person who's
Speaker 3: being asked as well, because I think for me, the
Speaker 3: biggest turn off is when it feels too transactional and
Speaker 3: you know there can be transactional elements to it. I've
Speaker 3: got an example of something that happened recently, and it
Speaker 3: made me feel really weird because I love helping other
Speaker 3: people and like, wherever I can, you know, like, I'll
Speaker 3: give the intro, I'll give the opportunity, I'll give the information,
Speaker 3: and so it makes me feel incredibly conflicted when someone
Speaker 3: then hits me up and I feel like their ask
Speaker 3: is crossing a line potentially. So I had someone introduced
Speaker 3: to me through a warm intro, and when the warm
Speaker 3: intro was brought to me, it was that this person
Speaker 3: was looking for some advice on how to build their
Speaker 3: personal brand and show up online. So I was like, sure,
Speaker 3: one hundred pcent, I ll chat to that person. Then
Speaker 3: the person reached out to me and actually just asked
Speaker 3: me to introduce them to two semi famous people that
Speaker 3: I know, and I was like, ah, like, I barely
Speaker 3: know you, and now you're asking for some of the
Speaker 3: most prolific people in my own network, and you kind
Speaker 3: of want me to put myself out to make those
Speaker 3: introts for you and I barely know you and there's
Speaker 3: been no exchange here whatsoever.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so transparent. Isn't it what people really want?
Speaker 1: I know, you can really read when people haven't taken
Speaker 1: the time to get to know you, they don't really
Speaker 1: care about you, they just want having from you.
Speaker 3: It's so easy to see. It kind of makes you
Speaker 3: feel like shit.
Speaker 1: It's like you don't care about me at all, you
Speaker 1: just want something from me. And the flip side, like,
Speaker 1: I really see when people get in touch with me
Speaker 1: and they have taken the time to get to know me,
Speaker 1: they write something personal. You can see when people have
Speaker 1: to do these generic things that you can tell they're
Speaker 1: just sending everyone the one that I'm getting all the time.
Speaker 1: At the moment, I used to think this was good,
Speaker 1: but now I've seen it so many times that I'm
Speaker 1: just like, oh, this is just like a canned thing
Speaker 1: people send is they'll say, really like your content, can
Speaker 1: you give me one book recommendation? They basically just try
Speaker 1: to ask you a question, anything that will hook you
Speaker 1: into responding. But I've seen that so many times now
Speaker 1: that I'm just like too generic. So just like, really,
Speaker 1: if you're going to reach out to someone, spend fifteen
Speaker 1: minutes getting to know them and actually like give a
Speaker 1: shit about them before you go and ask them for something.
Speaker 3: I also think your example of engaging in their content.
Speaker 3: It's so simple and so easy for you to do,
Speaker 3: and it really does make a difference. Like when I
Speaker 3: was at Bumble, we had a whole Bumble Honey cohort,
Speaker 3: so we essentially had like thirty interns at once, and
Speaker 3: so many of those interns I still have real life
Speaker 3: relationships with and will help out. And it's because we're
Speaker 3: kind of always casually chatting in DMS, and like they've
Speaker 3: made a bit of an effort to maintain the relationship
Speaker 3: and it does pay off.
Speaker 1: I love that. The other point that you made, Michelle
Speaker 1: around it being transactional. The more senior you get, the
Speaker 1: longer you have these relationships for It's so cool in
Speaker 1: terms of the favors people are willing to do, but
Speaker 1: you have to build up to that, right, So, like
Speaker 1: I see, that's kind of the way stuff gets done
Speaker 1: when you're at the most senior level. People do insane
Speaker 1: favors for each other move mountains because they know at
Speaker 1: some point that person's going to pay them back. But
Speaker 1: you can't start with that.
Speaker 3: Okay, so we've run through what not to do up next,
Speaker 3: we'll give you five tips that will get you off
Speaker 3: to a great stuff. All right, So we've covered what
Speaker 3: people are getting wrong when it comes to networking and
Speaker 3: how you should be thinking about it. Now we're going
Speaker 3: to get into the practical gems that Sofa and I
Speaker 3: have collected. Some of them we've collected from others, some
Speaker 3: of them are our own. So Tip one is how
Speaker 3: to nail where you stand in the room. I found
Speaker 3: this on TikTok and I just loved it because it
Speaker 3: was really simple, and it's from a CEO and author
Speaker 3: whose name is Krystal. Will include her the link to
Speaker 3: her TikTok account in the show notes, but she kind
Speaker 3: of unpacked my biggest fear, I think, and why I
Speaker 3: find those more traditional networking events so uncomfortable, because it
Speaker 3: actually starts for me from the moment you enter the
Speaker 3: room where it's like deer in headlights? What the fuck
Speaker 3: is going on? Who do I know?
Speaker 1: Here?
Speaker 3: Where do I stand? Am I going to get trapped?
Speaker 3: So this TikTok video talks about there being three different
Speaker 3: zones when it comes to networking. The first zone is
Speaker 3: the entry zone, and this is where you absolutely do
Speaker 3: not want to stand, So don't come into the room
Speaker 3: and just hang around in that entry zone because as
Speaker 3: people are coming in, you might end up in a
Speaker 3: conversation with them, but they're going to be looking over
Speaker 3: your shoulder. They're going to be trying to assess the
Speaker 3: room as well. They're also a little bit dear and
Speaker 3: headlighty at that point, so they'll kind of just be
Speaker 3: looking over your shoulder and be wanting to move on
Speaker 3: to the next So avoid the entry zone. The second
Speaker 3: zone is the sticky zones, and these are also to
Speaker 3: be avoided at all costs. So a sticky zone, for example,
Speaker 3: is like a table where you might be sitting down
Speaker 3: eating food, having drinks. It's a bit hard to get
Speaker 3: in conversation because you're eating, but you're also going to
Speaker 3: get stuck with the person next to you, and it's
Speaker 3: often very hard to get out of that.
Speaker 1: Physical reaction like PTSD from getting stuck at networking events
Speaker 1: talking to people you don't want to talk to.
Speaker 3: A second sticky zone is if you know someone. So
Speaker 3: if you know someone at the event, it can feel
Speaker 3: so natural to just go and seek that person out
Speaker 3: and find comfort in that existing relationship, but it's going
Speaker 3: to hold you back. So a good idea is to
Speaker 3: if you see someone you know, be like, hey, great
Speaker 3: to see you. I'm just going to go and chat
Speaker 3: to this person. I'm going to come find you later,
Speaker 3: and just like park those ones and give yourself the
Speaker 3: best opportunity to meet new people. The third zone, and
Speaker 3: this is where you want to be existing. There's two options.
Speaker 3: The first one is by the bar, so she says
Speaker 3: that as people are leaving the bar, they've got their drink,
Speaker 3: they're feeling settled, and they're ready for a conversation, and
Speaker 3: a really easy in can just be like cheers, cheer someone,
Speaker 3: introduce yourself and that's a good opportunity to start a
Speaker 3: conversation where you're probably both ready. The second good zone
Speaker 3: to be in is near the host, So going up
Speaker 3: to the host, introducing yourself, thanking them for inviting you,
Speaker 3: and then you could even ask them is there anyone
Speaker 3: here that you would suggest I speak to, and then
Speaker 3: maybe they can help introduce you to someone else who's
Speaker 3: in a similar space to you or someone that they
Speaker 3: think might be a good connection for you. But by
Speaker 3: the host, they're also going to have a lot of
Speaker 3: people just around them, so it's also a good zone
Speaker 3: to exist in mind blown that is epic advice. Yeah,
Speaker 3: it's so simple, but for someone who's a bit scared.
Speaker 3: I also feel like by the host is also a
Speaker 3: nice ice breaker as well, like this is someone who's
Speaker 3: there to welcome you, is going to be down for
Speaker 3: a chat. But she does make a point actually like
Speaker 3: only if they're looking available, like you don't want to
Speaker 3: loiter around them. So yeah, by the bar or buy
Speaker 3: the host. That's how you're going to nail where you
Speaker 3: stand at a networking event.
Speaker 1: I love it, and one super quick build. If it
Speaker 1: is a sit down dinner, often the peace or like
Speaker 1: the two people that you're chatting to right before everyone
Speaker 1: goes to sit down will be the people you end
Speaker 1: up sitting with. If it's not like a named they
Speaker 1: haven't decided where people are sitting, because you'll end up
Speaker 1: walking sort of into the seating area with those people.
Speaker 1: So very strategically, if there's a particular person that you
Speaker 1: really want to sit next to at dinner, try to
Speaker 1: make sure that you are talking to them or close
Speaker 1: to them right before they say okay, everyone come and
Speaker 1: sit down.
Speaker 3: Such a good tip Number two is how to deliver
Speaker 3: your intro and potentially get someone to help you. So
Speaker 3: I also just felt like this was brilliant because I
Speaker 3: think often people can get a little bit word vomity
Speaker 3: with their elevator pitch and people can kind of tune
Speaker 3: out to what you're saying. So this is also inspired
Speaker 3: from another TikTok video. So this creator Grace has a
Speaker 3: three part structure to how you should deliver your intro
Speaker 3: and it's across three sentences. So the first sentence should
Speaker 3: be what my business output is, So you're not giving
Speaker 3: them your life story. You were just telling them in
Speaker 3: one line what your business output is.
Speaker 1: Can you give us an example?
Speaker 3: So, for example, mine would be, Hey, I'm Michelle. I
Speaker 3: run a startup that allows female creators to make money.
Speaker 1: Boom, so good.
Speaker 3: Why I'm here tonight for me would be I'm looking
Speaker 3: to meet more female founders that are in the tech industry.
Speaker 3: And then the third line would be what type of
Speaker 3: help you need? I love this, so I'll use myself
Speaker 3: as an example. Maybe I'll say, you know what, I've
Speaker 3: reached this place in my business at the moment where
Speaker 3: our growth is plateauing, and I would love to speak
Speaker 3: to anyone who has experience with this and talk about
Speaker 3: ways that I could kickstart things. If anyone's been there,
Speaker 3: done that, I'd love to have a fifteen minute virtual
Speaker 3: catch up. We could skills share.
Speaker 1: Let me know. Do you know what I love about
Speaker 1: this connecting it to that point we made earlier around
Speaker 1: approach it in terms of how you can help other people.
Speaker 1: For everyone who just listened to what you said, I
Speaker 1: instantly have ideas of how I can help you. So
Speaker 1: that means that that lets me start that relationship with
Speaker 1: you in a way where I can be a helper
Speaker 1: because you've just told me what you need.
Speaker 3: I love it exactly. And also I loved that she
Speaker 3: was encouraging people to be vulnerable, Like asking what you
Speaker 3: need help with is like, let's not all pretend we've
Speaker 3: got our shit sorted, Let's get right into it. Like
Speaker 3: being vulnerable and showing where your challenges might be also
Speaker 3: just opens other people up to start talking about similar things.
Speaker 3: And she also made a great point which was people
Speaker 3: are desperate for something to talk about, and you've just
Speaker 3: offered a bit of a topic for the room. And
Speaker 3: then I loved that in her example, she also ended
Speaker 3: with I'd be happy to skills share, so like you're
Speaker 3: also offering something back. You know, so if they've got
Speaker 3: a challenge, you can also discuss it in the same
Speaker 3: conversation and virtual coffee. You know, I'm not asking you
Speaker 3: to take an hour out of your day and come
Speaker 3: and meet me for lunch.
Speaker 1: Like we can just do this on zoom. That is
Speaker 1: amazing advice. Okay, so that was tip numbers two, how
Speaker 1: to do your intro. Mine's very quick. Tip number three
Speaker 1: is how to actually exit a conversation. So do not
Speaker 1: let yourself get stuck in a conversation you don't want
Speaker 1: to be in. Be confident in exiting. And this is
Speaker 1: how I do it. It's called the white flag method.
Speaker 1: With motor racing, they'll often wave a white flag and
Speaker 1: that singles this is the last lap you did. The
Speaker 1: exact same thing. In conversations, you say to someone I
Speaker 1: have to go and talk to someone else in a minute.
Speaker 1: But before I do, tell me one more thing about
Speaker 1: blah whatever they were just talking about. Tell me one
Speaker 1: more thing about that trip you're planning, or tell me
Speaker 1: one more thing about you know, that project you were
Speaker 1: telling me about. It just gives people an option to
Speaker 1: like say the last thing that they want to say
Speaker 1: and you're not, just like, Okay, got to go, be
Speaker 1: confident in leaving, don't feel awkward about it. It's possible
Speaker 1: that person doesn't want to talk to you anymore anyway,
Speaker 1: So just like, do not go to events and waste
Speaker 1: your time. I am brutal with this shit. So yeah,
Speaker 1: just like white flag method.
Speaker 3: Oh, I feel like that is such an important one
Speaker 3: because getting stuck can be the worst part. So you've
Speaker 3: got permission to leave. And yeah that.
Speaker 1: Tip, Okay, tip number four is how to nail cold
Speaker 1: outreach on LinkedIn. So we've kind of focused on some
Speaker 1: event networking stuff. Michelle mentioned in her intro that there's
Speaker 1: lots of different types and one of them is networking online.
Speaker 1: So the first and most important thing is make it
Speaker 1: personal to the person. So I'm not going to give
Speaker 1: you like a perfect template for this, because I just
Speaker 1: really want you to spend some time getting to know
Speaker 1: the person that you're planning to reach out to and
Speaker 1: try and make it personal to them. So read some
Speaker 1: of their recent posts, if you've seen them on a podcast,
Speaker 1: whatever it is. Just try to have your first line
Speaker 1: just be something about something that they've said or something
Speaker 1: that you know about them, and then make it specific,
Speaker 1: so whatever your kind of ask is, instead of saying,
Speaker 1: you know, we'd love to pick your brain. Michelle knows
Speaker 1: that I hate that line. You just want to make
Speaker 1: it specific. I'd specifically love to ask you about this
Speaker 1: or whatever the you know your actual ask is. Don't
Speaker 1: be formulaic, don't be boring. Try to just have something
Speaker 1: that would make someone want to, like, you know, respond
Speaker 1: to you. I think the thing people forget is, especially
Speaker 1: when they get onto LinkedIn, it's like we all lose
Speaker 1: our personality and we all just start sounding like everyone else. Honestly,
Speaker 1: the main thing just don't be boring. You are an
Speaker 1: interesting person. There is so many interesting, unique things about
Speaker 1: you and value that you can give to other people.
Speaker 1: Don't hide that and don't be boring.
Speaker 3: I love that. My last tip segue is nicely off that,
Speaker 3: and it's how to share your wins on LinkedIn, because
Speaker 3: I think after you send an outreach on LinkedIn, the
Speaker 3: first thing that person's going to do, if your message
Speaker 3: appeals to them, is they going to click on your
Speaker 3: profile and see what you've been up to. And I
Speaker 3: just think it's so valuable to share your insights on LinkedIn,
Speaker 3: and often it can feel really cringe doing that. And
Speaker 3: I think I've mentioned this before, but it was just
Speaker 3: such a brilliant reframe in my own mind. And it's
Speaker 3: from Adam Grant, and he speaks about the difference between
Speaker 3: self promotion and idea promotion, and there a very big difference.
Speaker 3: He defines self promotion as talking about yourself, your achievements,
Speaker 3: why people should pay attention to you, and it can
Speaker 3: sometimes come across as egotistical or self serving, versus idea promotion,
Speaker 3: sharing valuable insights, new perspectives, solutions to problems, and this
Speaker 3: positions you as an authority without the message being about you.
Speaker 3: And so I think that flip is just so great
Speaker 3: and it isn't gross to talk about what you're working on,
Speaker 3: or what you've witnessed or something that surprised you. So
Speaker 3: I think when it comes to LinkedIn, just flipping it
Speaker 3: and thinking about it like that hopefully will remove some
Speaker 3: of that like h that you might feel when you're
Speaker 3: talking about your experiences.
Speaker 1: Michelle. To wrap up the episode, I want to tell
Speaker 1: you about the most prolific networker that I have met
Speaker 1: in my entire career, and he was fourteen years old.
Speaker 3: I'm shook. Fourteen.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he textbook. Everything we've just spoken about started doing
Speaker 1: when he was fourteen years old. He's still in my
Speaker 1: network today he's thirty. So what he did when he
Speaker 1: was fourteen years old, I was working at MySpace. He
Speaker 1: wanted to break into the music industry. He started to
Speaker 1: help promote a lot of the stuff and events and
Speaker 1: things that we were posting on my Space. So started
Speaker 1: doing that piece around supporting my posts online. Then he
Speaker 1: reached out and said, hey, I can help you organize
Speaker 1: focus groups with other people who were young like me,
Speaker 1: so you can get some insights. So he organized free
Speaker 1: focus groups with all of his mates from school. They
Speaker 1: would come and drop them all off at the office.
Speaker 1: We would do pizza, and I would just get all
Speaker 1: of these incredible insights. Focus groups are very expensive, by
Speaker 1: the way, and hard to organize, so that was just
Speaker 1: an insane piece of value that he gave us. And
Speaker 1: then he created a little collective, or he was part
Speaker 1: of a collective of other young kids who were organizing
Speaker 1: under eighteen's music festivals. Their first one was at the
Speaker 1: Oxford Arts Factory and the band they had playing was
Speaker 1: Tame Pala. Oh my god, I know obviously got famous
Speaker 1: exactly whereas he now. They did byo community, They built
Speaker 1: their own community and then you know from there. He'd
Speaker 1: always stayed in touch with me and sent me amazing
Speaker 1: relevant articles. Just was like a huge helper throughout my
Speaker 1: whole career. He did this strategically to lots of other
Speaker 1: people in the music industry. He worked at Triple J
Speaker 1: and then he is now the managing director of a
Speaker 1: big record label living out of LA and he managed
Speaker 1: artists like Flume and g flip So and everyone knows
Speaker 1: this guy. Everyone knows Harry White. I guarantee you someone
Speaker 1: listening to this podcast will know Harry White. If you
Speaker 1: think you can't do this, he started doing that when
Speaker 1: he was fourteen years old, and I got like, just
Speaker 1: has an incredible career because of the network that he built.
Speaker 1: So that's a little bit of inspiration for you. Get
Speaker 1: out there and do it.
Speaker 3: Holy shit, people are creating Instagram pages for their children,
Speaker 3: but I'm going to create a LinkedIn for Alphie tonight.
Speaker 1: I love it.
Speaker 2: My biggest takeaway from this episode is that networking doesn't
Speaker 2: just have to look like what we think it should
Speaker 2: look like. Sometimes it's just about finding your people and
Speaker 2: just hanging out. Speaking of finding your people, this week's
Speaker 2: bus newsletter is packed with the directory of networking groups
Speaker 2: and collectors that are anything butt cringe. Head to our
Speaker 2: show notes for a link to sign up. It is
Speaker 2: completely free, and don't forget to follow us on Instagram
Speaker 2: at biz by Mama Mia, where we'll be sharing those
Speaker 2: grips that Mish and so both shared. Thank you so
Speaker 2: much for listening. I will catch you in Thursday's Inbox
Speaker 2: episode where we answer all of your career dilemmas. Hi
Speaker 2: Mamma Maya acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on