1 00:00:10,622 --> 00:00:13,342 Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast. 2 00:00:13,822 --> 00:00:17,182 Speaker 2: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters 3 00:00:17,222 --> 00:00:20,061 Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on labia majora. 4 00:00:20,182 --> 00:00:22,742 Speaker 3: So majora is the outside, Monora is inside. And you're 5 00:00:22,782 --> 00:00:24,701 Speaker 3: telling me that I'm gonna lose anything. 6 00:00:24,741 --> 00:00:27,582 Speaker 4: When you say outside, do you mean lips or do 7 00:00:27,622 --> 00:00:30,422 Speaker 4: you mean outside flaps and inside flaps? 8 00:00:30,502 --> 00:00:33,662 Speaker 3: I mean outside flaps majora, inside flaps and manora cor. 9 00:00:33,742 --> 00:00:35,622 Speaker 1: And then plus lips are a different thing. What are 10 00:00:35,622 --> 00:00:36,022 Speaker 1: they called? 11 00:00:36,062 --> 00:00:36,181 Speaker 3: What? 12 00:00:36,942 --> 00:00:37,262 Speaker 1: I don't know? 13 00:00:37,462 --> 00:00:39,461 Speaker 3: You have three sets? No, you have to go to 14 00:00:39,502 --> 00:00:40,382 Speaker 3: the doctr Of. 15 00:00:40,382 --> 00:00:43,862 Speaker 4: Course Mia has more than I'm at top of the labia. 16 00:00:44,142 --> 00:00:46,101 Speaker 3: You're not meant to have three la You're only meant 17 00:00:46,102 --> 00:00:48,782 Speaker 3: to have two anyway. 18 00:00:51,262 --> 00:00:53,982 Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to Mamma Mia out loud. It's what 19 00:00:54,062 --> 00:00:57,702 Speaker 2: women are actually talking about on Monday, the third of February. 20 00:00:57,822 --> 00:00:59,582 Speaker 2: I am hollywaen right, I'm. 21 00:00:59,382 --> 00:01:02,462 Speaker 1: Mea Friedman and I'm Jesse Stevens. 22 00:01:01,942 --> 00:01:06,422 Speaker 2: And on the show today, the inexcusable harassment of a 23 00:01:06,462 --> 00:01:11,142 Speaker 2: famous Australian woman or a justified public invention, the tabloid 24 00:01:11,182 --> 00:01:15,342 Speaker 2: shaming of Kate Ritchie. Also Where's your Labiagonne? And other 25 00:01:15,422 --> 00:01:18,142 Speaker 2: things menopausal women should shut the hell up about, according 26 00:01:18,142 --> 00:01:21,862 Speaker 2: to a viral column in this weekend's Papers, and Princess 27 00:01:21,902 --> 00:01:25,982 Speaker 2: Catherine's epic act of micro pettiness. But first, Miya has 28 00:01:26,022 --> 00:01:28,782 Speaker 2: an urgent update for us from the Grammy's Red Carpet look. 29 00:01:28,782 --> 00:01:31,662 Speaker 4: I actually think it's incredibly sad and disturbing, which are 30 00:01:31,662 --> 00:01:34,301 Speaker 4: not usually words that you would associate with a red 31 00:01:34,382 --> 00:01:37,542 Speaker 4: carpet at a major awards show. But in case you 32 00:01:37,582 --> 00:01:41,262 Speaker 4: have missed it, Bianker Sensori, who is an Australian architect 33 00:01:41,262 --> 00:01:44,622 Speaker 4: and model. She's thirty years old and is married to 34 00:01:44,742 --> 00:01:49,022 Speaker 4: Kanye West. They met when she was head of architecture 35 00:01:49,222 --> 00:01:51,782 Speaker 4: at Yeasy and I don't think we've spoken about it 36 00:01:51,822 --> 00:01:55,022 Speaker 4: much on the show, but increasingly over the time they've 37 00:01:55,022 --> 00:01:59,702 Speaker 4: been together, he parades her essentially like a naked trophy 38 00:01:59,742 --> 00:02:03,862 Speaker 4: in public, where he is sometimes wearing a mask, sometimes 39 00:02:03,902 --> 00:02:06,822 Speaker 4: he's fully covered, and she's always almost naked or naked. 40 00:02:06,902 --> 00:02:09,902 Speaker 4: They've appeared on The Grammy's Red Carpet and she is 41 00:02:09,942 --> 00:02:13,982 Speaker 4: actually naked. She's wearing this tiny, sheer little thing but 42 00:02:14,061 --> 00:02:15,982 Speaker 4: with nothing on it. You can see full badge, full 43 00:02:15,982 --> 00:02:16,782 Speaker 4: bumful boobs. 44 00:02:16,781 --> 00:02:18,902 Speaker 3: We'll post a picture on the Mummy or out loud 45 00:02:18,902 --> 00:02:21,062 Speaker 3: Instagram so that you can see what we're talking about. 46 00:02:21,102 --> 00:02:24,022 Speaker 3: But when you say she's full, like, do you think 47 00:02:24,022 --> 00:02:26,702 Speaker 3: she's got something kind of see through over the she. 48 00:02:26,862 --> 00:02:31,342 Speaker 4: Does, so it's like, imagine something completely clear, just you 49 00:02:31,342 --> 00:02:32,542 Speaker 4: can see full vadge. 50 00:02:32,542 --> 00:02:34,862 Speaker 1: Oh can you keep she doesn't have pews. 51 00:02:34,982 --> 00:02:36,982 Speaker 2: This is the only picture you're going to see from 52 00:02:36,982 --> 00:02:38,781 Speaker 2: the Grammy's Red Carpets. Stay. We talk a lot about 53 00:02:38,822 --> 00:02:41,982 Speaker 2: the attention economy. That is what's going on here is 54 00:02:41,982 --> 00:02:44,702 Speaker 2: They're like, look, there's a naked lady on the red carpet, 55 00:02:44,742 --> 00:02:48,222 Speaker 2: and I was really upset about it, and then I 56 00:02:48,262 --> 00:02:50,501 Speaker 2: remembered I've already seen her naked so many times. I 57 00:02:50,542 --> 00:02:51,941 Speaker 2: think I know what she had for breakfast. 58 00:02:52,102 --> 00:02:54,422 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's pretty what's Kanye West wearing next her? 59 00:02:54,502 --> 00:02:56,781 Speaker 4: He's wearing a black T shirt, black pants, he always 60 00:02:56,782 --> 00:03:00,662 Speaker 4: wears that, and sunglasses. They both look pretty miserable. He 61 00:03:00,702 --> 00:03:04,341 Speaker 4: always looks very pouty. His mental health has been said 62 00:03:04,422 --> 00:03:06,781 Speaker 4: to be questionable, but a lot of things about him 63 00:03:06,982 --> 00:03:09,462 Speaker 4: are very questionable, and a lot of people have mental 64 00:03:09,582 --> 00:03:11,302 Speaker 4: health issues and don't behave like Kanye waste. 65 00:03:11,342 --> 00:03:13,702 Speaker 3: You think there's a dress code like an airport lounge. 66 00:03:13,822 --> 00:03:16,181 Speaker 2: Well, there's been a lot of naked red carpets over 67 00:03:16,222 --> 00:03:18,502 Speaker 2: the years. This makes them look quaint, do you remember, 68 00:03:18,622 --> 00:03:21,102 Speaker 2: I think it was Rose McGowan once it turned up 69 00:03:21,542 --> 00:03:24,462 Speaker 2: in just a few tassels and a beaded g stream that. 70 00:03:24,822 --> 00:03:26,022 Speaker 3: Our line was nipples. 71 00:03:26,102 --> 00:03:28,862 Speaker 4: So there are reports that they weren't even invited to 72 00:03:28,942 --> 00:03:31,382 Speaker 4: the Grammys, which Kanye makes a habit of getting on 73 00:03:31,662 --> 00:03:33,982 Speaker 4: stage and doing things when he's not invited. Remember this 74 00:03:34,022 --> 00:03:37,742 Speaker 4: is famously where he went and harassed Taylor Swift and 75 00:03:37,822 --> 00:03:39,582 Speaker 4: got on stage and said that Beyonce should have won. 76 00:03:39,902 --> 00:03:43,742 Speaker 4: Bianco Sensori and Kanye were reportedly asked to leave after 77 00:03:43,782 --> 00:03:46,902 Speaker 4: the red carpet. Well, we know that the more nude 78 00:03:46,902 --> 00:03:50,222 Speaker 4: you are, the more attention you get, right because, as 79 00:03:50,262 --> 00:03:52,622 Speaker 4: Holly said, we're in an attention economy, and they're the 80 00:03:52,702 --> 00:03:55,782 Speaker 4: rules of the red carpet. But there's something very sinister 81 00:03:55,902 --> 00:03:59,262 Speaker 4: about this because she's not there by herself, She's never 82 00:03:59,302 --> 00:04:04,422 Speaker 4: photographed alone. She's always there as his dole doll. 83 00:04:04,822 --> 00:04:06,342 Speaker 1: You know, there are rumors. 84 00:04:05,982 --> 00:04:09,262 Speaker 4: That he locks up her clothes at home, doesn't let 85 00:04:09,302 --> 00:04:12,222 Speaker 4: her wear clothes. It appears to be a very coercive 86 00:04:12,222 --> 00:04:14,542 Speaker 4: and controlling relationship. Of course, we don't know because she 87 00:04:14,582 --> 00:04:18,902 Speaker 4: hasn't said anything. Maybe she really enjoys it. We probably 88 00:04:18,942 --> 00:04:22,541 Speaker 4: won't know until down the track. This is something that 89 00:04:22,582 --> 00:04:25,061 Speaker 4: he did in a slightly different way with Kim Kardashian. 90 00:04:25,222 --> 00:04:27,462 Speaker 4: She was very much mocked for her lack of style. 91 00:04:27,582 --> 00:04:30,901 Speaker 4: She well, like body condresses. The Kardashians didn't really have style. 92 00:04:30,941 --> 00:04:33,421 Speaker 4: And when he got together with her, he quite famously 93 00:04:33,462 --> 00:04:37,301 Speaker 4: started dressing her in, you know, designer clothes, and she 94 00:04:37,342 --> 00:04:40,541 Speaker 4: appeared to be quite complicit in that. And interestingly, since 95 00:04:40,582 --> 00:04:44,181 Speaker 4: they ended their marriage, she's continued to dress in ways 96 00:04:44,181 --> 00:04:46,861 Speaker 4: that aren't dissimilar to that. And what he did is 97 00:04:46,902 --> 00:04:50,022 Speaker 4: sort of transform her into a bit of a fashion 98 00:04:50,181 --> 00:04:51,942 Speaker 4: icon and someone who could then be on the cover 99 00:04:51,981 --> 00:04:54,061 Speaker 4: of Vogue. But this is very different because it's never 100 00:04:54,101 --> 00:04:58,022 Speaker 4: about the clothes, it's about her naked body. Yeah, and 101 00:04:58,342 --> 00:05:00,941 Speaker 4: you might remember when he briefly dated Julia Fox. She 102 00:05:01,061 --> 00:05:03,502 Speaker 4: said that on their date they went out to dinner 103 00:05:03,541 --> 00:05:05,421 Speaker 4: and then he took her to this he wanted to 104 00:05:05,462 --> 00:05:07,262 Speaker 4: throw away all her clothes and then he took her 105 00:05:07,301 --> 00:05:09,942 Speaker 4: to this room where there were lots of clothes to wear. 106 00:05:10,022 --> 00:05:13,342 Speaker 4: So he's clearly a very controlling person, and I just 107 00:05:14,142 --> 00:05:16,061 Speaker 4: I don't want to be condescending and not give her 108 00:05:16,142 --> 00:05:18,501 Speaker 4: agency or power, but I find. 109 00:05:18,342 --> 00:05:19,261 Speaker 1: It very disturbing. 110 00:05:20,342 --> 00:05:22,821 Speaker 4: Of course, there are many other looks on the red 111 00:05:22,861 --> 00:05:26,341 Speaker 4: carpet apart from this, involve actual clothes, that involve actual clothes, 112 00:05:26,381 --> 00:05:28,062 Speaker 4: And of course some people are actually going to get 113 00:05:28,142 --> 00:05:31,261 Speaker 4: awards tonight for things that they have done and songs 114 00:05:31,301 --> 00:05:32,662 Speaker 4: they have sung, rather than. 115 00:05:33,101 --> 00:05:34,462 Speaker 1: Their bodies or their clothes. 116 00:05:34,541 --> 00:05:37,622 Speaker 4: So we will be doing a full Grammys recap tomorrow 117 00:05:37,821 --> 00:05:39,621 Speaker 4: on our Tuesday episode. 118 00:05:40,181 --> 00:05:42,501 Speaker 2: The splash on the front of The Daily Mail on 119 00:05:42,582 --> 00:05:44,941 Speaker 2: Friday was of a woman sitting on the grass in 120 00:05:44,941 --> 00:05:48,181 Speaker 2: a Sydney park, apparently crying as she talks into her phone. 121 00:05:48,662 --> 00:05:50,861 Speaker 2: Her car is idling thereby. Her child is in the 122 00:05:50,861 --> 00:05:54,621 Speaker 2: passenger seat. The report that accompanies the pictures says that 123 00:05:54,981 --> 00:05:57,181 Speaker 2: not long before, she had visited a bottle shop and 124 00:05:57,222 --> 00:05:59,782 Speaker 2: went to pick up her daughter from school. All of 125 00:05:59,782 --> 00:06:02,662 Speaker 2: this is reported in detail. That's confusing unless you know 126 00:06:02,702 --> 00:06:05,422 Speaker 2: the context. The context is that the woman was one 127 00:06:05,421 --> 00:06:08,261 Speaker 2: of Australia's most famous and beloved actors and presenters, Kate 128 00:06:08,342 --> 00:06:10,821 Speaker 2: Ritchie and she won I was most likely being followed 129 00:06:10,821 --> 00:06:13,022 Speaker 2: by a photographer because earlier in the week she had 130 00:06:13,061 --> 00:06:17,061 Speaker 2: delayed returning to her job on breakfast Radio. Now since 131 00:06:17,142 --> 00:06:20,782 Speaker 2: that happened, the story has kept rolling. Over the weekend, 132 00:06:20,861 --> 00:06:24,061 Speaker 2: the Male had pictures of all her team visiting her 133 00:06:24,381 --> 00:06:27,222 Speaker 2: at her home, presumably to decide what they were going 134 00:06:27,262 --> 00:06:29,142 Speaker 2: to say and how they were going to address these images. 135 00:06:29,222 --> 00:06:32,462 Speaker 2: If ever, the Male kept reporting it. The so called 136 00:06:32,501 --> 00:06:36,222 Speaker 2: bombshell bottle shop photos, as they said, were published because 137 00:06:36,262 --> 00:06:38,541 Speaker 2: they know that Kate is a woman who has before 138 00:06:38,621 --> 00:06:43,182 Speaker 2: spoken about her issues with alcohol. Jesse, as we went 139 00:06:43,222 --> 00:06:46,141 Speaker 2: into the studio today, Kate Richie released a statement about 140 00:06:46,142 --> 00:06:47,702 Speaker 2: what's going on with her. What did she say? 141 00:06:48,022 --> 00:06:51,182 Speaker 3: Her statement reads, I struggle with mental health issues at 142 00:06:51,222 --> 00:06:53,861 Speaker 3: times which are deeply personal. This has proven to be 143 00:06:53,902 --> 00:06:56,942 Speaker 3: a bigger challenge than I imagined, so I've decided to take 144 00:06:56,941 --> 00:06:58,902 Speaker 3: a break from the show and the team who I 145 00:06:58,941 --> 00:07:01,541 Speaker 3: love to focus on my health. I want to thank 146 00:07:01,741 --> 00:07:03,582 Speaker 3: all of those who are helping me through this very 147 00:07:03,621 --> 00:07:06,021 Speaker 3: difficult time. I love you. Thank you Noba for being 148 00:07:06,022 --> 00:07:08,861 Speaker 3: there when I need you. This is also a problem 149 00:07:09,022 --> 00:07:11,782 Speaker 3: many other are struggling with. They know what it's like. 150 00:07:12,222 --> 00:07:15,102 Speaker 3: The images of me taken last week show that I 151 00:07:15,262 --> 00:07:18,542 Speaker 3: wasn't okay on that day. My struggle is not helped 152 00:07:18,582 --> 00:07:21,862 Speaker 3: by the relentless stalking of me by the paparazzi. In fact, 153 00:07:21,902 --> 00:07:25,342 Speaker 3: they are making it much worse due to their constant harassment. 154 00:07:25,422 --> 00:07:29,102 Speaker 3: They significantly add pressure and make my recovery that much 155 00:07:29,142 --> 00:07:33,062 Speaker 3: more difficult to those profiting from invading my privacy. A 156 00:07:33,142 --> 00:07:37,102 Speaker 3: simple question, would you treat, say, your sister, mother, or 157 00:07:37,222 --> 00:07:41,862 Speaker 3: daughter the same if they had similar challenges? Please reconsider 158 00:07:41,941 --> 00:07:44,222 Speaker 3: and stop and think of the harm you are inflicting 159 00:07:44,502 --> 00:07:47,662 Speaker 3: and give me the space and privacy I need. Thank 160 00:07:47,702 --> 00:07:49,982 Speaker 3: you to my wonderful family, all the NOVA listeners and 161 00:07:50,022 --> 00:07:52,302 Speaker 3: many others who are sending their love and support. I 162 00:07:52,302 --> 00:07:54,942 Speaker 3: appreciate it more than you can imagine. Thank you, Kate. 163 00:07:55,502 --> 00:07:58,102 Speaker 2: Such a great statement, I think because the thing that's 164 00:07:58,142 --> 00:08:01,262 Speaker 2: interesting about this is the justification for running those kind 165 00:08:01,342 --> 00:08:04,942 Speaker 2: of images, And perhaps the reaction that the male we're 166 00:08:04,982 --> 00:08:08,262 Speaker 2: expecting is that it's a gotcha, like, look at this 167 00:08:08,422 --> 00:08:12,862 Speaker 2: famous woman out of control in public. She clearly hasn't 168 00:08:12,862 --> 00:08:15,262 Speaker 2: dealt with her demons. We know that Kate has been 169 00:08:15,302 --> 00:08:18,582 Speaker 2: fined in twenty twenty two for DUI. She has spoken 170 00:08:18,622 --> 00:08:21,542 Speaker 2: publicly about her struggles with alcohol before. There was another 171 00:08:21,542 --> 00:08:23,782 Speaker 2: incident late last year that never made it to court 172 00:08:23,862 --> 00:08:26,381 Speaker 2: or anything, but the male reported about her in a 173 00:08:26,422 --> 00:08:29,542 Speaker 2: traffic incident at a school. The thing is is that 174 00:08:29,582 --> 00:08:32,381 Speaker 2: the Internet didn't really respond with that kind of glee. 175 00:08:32,422 --> 00:08:35,302 Speaker 2: They mostly showed the kind of empathy that Kate's asking 176 00:08:35,342 --> 00:08:36,582 Speaker 2: for in that statement right. 177 00:08:36,822 --> 00:08:40,262 Speaker 3: In fact, the statement is really telling because she is 178 00:08:40,342 --> 00:08:43,502 Speaker 3: saying the paparazzi are making it worse. And what I 179 00:08:43,702 --> 00:08:47,822 Speaker 3: found over the weekend on TikTok and then Constance Hall, 180 00:08:47,862 --> 00:08:51,542 Speaker 3: who has one point five million followers on Facebook, one 181 00:08:51,662 --> 00:08:55,182 Speaker 3: hundred percent empathy is what I saw. It was like 182 00:08:55,502 --> 00:08:59,622 Speaker 3: we were being baited to shame this woman, and our 183 00:08:59,662 --> 00:09:03,822 Speaker 3: instincts to shame a mother, which are often particularly strong. 184 00:09:04,022 --> 00:09:07,782 Speaker 4: Yeah, I saw some pushback, and I think it's worth 185 00:09:08,582 --> 00:09:11,462 Speaker 4: pointing out. And you know, obviously we stand our love 186 00:09:11,542 --> 00:09:13,902 Speaker 4: to Kate and to anyone who's going through this. 187 00:09:14,742 --> 00:09:17,062 Speaker 1: And I don't know anyone who. 188 00:09:17,542 --> 00:09:20,622 Speaker 4: Looked at those pictures or that video, and a lot 189 00:09:20,702 --> 00:09:24,422 Speaker 4: of people did and didn't feel a bit sick that 190 00:09:24,502 --> 00:09:27,622 Speaker 4: they were even looking at it, and then didn't feel 191 00:09:27,662 --> 00:09:33,142 Speaker 4: overwhelmingly sad and sorry for her. I think, though, there 192 00:09:33,142 --> 00:09:35,902 Speaker 4: are two things that complicate this a little bit that 193 00:09:35,942 --> 00:09:38,702 Speaker 4: some people were talking about, and that is that she 194 00:09:39,182 --> 00:09:42,302 Speaker 4: was driving with her child in the car, and that 195 00:09:42,382 --> 00:09:45,382 Speaker 4: she was on a public road, and we don't know 196 00:09:45,942 --> 00:09:50,462 Speaker 4: whether she was affected by substances, but as she says herself, 197 00:09:50,502 --> 00:09:54,502 Speaker 4: she was clearly distressed and not in good shape, and 198 00:09:54,542 --> 00:09:56,662 Speaker 4: she stumbled as she went to get in the car. 199 00:09:56,942 --> 00:10:01,182 Speaker 4: And some people have said, why didn't the photographers intervene? 200 00:10:01,222 --> 00:10:03,462 Speaker 4: Why didn't they either prevent her from getting in the car. 201 00:10:03,542 --> 00:10:05,502 Speaker 4: Why didn't they see if she was okay? Why didn't 202 00:10:05,542 --> 00:10:08,902 Speaker 4: they offer to call an uber. I don't think shaming 203 00:10:08,982 --> 00:10:13,021 Speaker 4: is ever the answer, because it was very much designed 204 00:10:13,582 --> 00:10:16,382 Speaker 4: for people to judge. I mean, that's what paparazzi shots are. 205 00:10:16,422 --> 00:10:18,622 Speaker 4: That's the business model of the Daily Mail, right. Yeah, 206 00:10:18,622 --> 00:10:21,862 Speaker 4: And interestingly, even all the Daily Mail comments will surprisingly lovely. 207 00:10:22,222 --> 00:10:24,662 Speaker 4: But what do we do with that the fact that 208 00:10:25,382 --> 00:10:27,902 Speaker 4: as a society we want people to get help, We 209 00:10:27,982 --> 00:10:31,462 Speaker 4: absolutely do, but we also don't want them on our roads, 210 00:10:31,502 --> 00:10:33,062 Speaker 4: but also driving children. 211 00:10:33,182 --> 00:10:34,702 Speaker 3: What did they do to stop? 212 00:10:34,782 --> 00:10:37,742 Speaker 2: Yeah? Exactly. The whole world doesn't need to know about that, 213 00:10:37,822 --> 00:10:39,622 Speaker 2: do you know what? I mean? They could have if 214 00:10:39,622 --> 00:10:42,422 Speaker 2: we're concerned about road safety, that's one issue, and maybe 215 00:10:42,422 --> 00:10:44,102 Speaker 2: stop the woman from getting in the car, or call 216 00:10:44,182 --> 00:10:46,902 Speaker 2: the police or whatever. Does the nation yet to know, 217 00:10:47,342 --> 00:10:50,782 Speaker 2: like does that worldwide humiliation help? Is it going to 218 00:10:50,862 --> 00:10:52,822 Speaker 2: push anybody direct? 219 00:10:52,942 --> 00:10:56,742 Speaker 4: Has been argued by some people, probably media organizations that 220 00:10:56,822 --> 00:11:01,702 Speaker 4: ran this is that by surfacing those photos, an intervention 221 00:11:01,862 --> 00:11:06,422 Speaker 4: clearly happens. This is I'm not saying that I agree 222 00:11:06,462 --> 00:11:08,622 Speaker 4: with this, but that they were doing a public service 223 00:11:09,102 --> 00:11:11,062 Speaker 4: by bringing this to a head. 224 00:11:11,262 --> 00:11:14,342 Speaker 3: Any evidence would tell you that this is not the 225 00:11:14,342 --> 00:11:17,102 Speaker 3: way to go about it by media. No, but this 226 00:11:17,222 --> 00:11:20,702 Speaker 3: is well, that's this is a lesson that we have 227 00:11:20,822 --> 00:11:24,422 Speaker 3: learned a hundred times. And we've talked about the intense 228 00:11:25,022 --> 00:11:28,422 Speaker 3: issues with the Internet and all its flaws. But to me, 229 00:11:28,622 --> 00:11:31,902 Speaker 3: this was a moment where the Internet showed its power, 230 00:11:32,342 --> 00:11:36,102 Speaker 3: which is that they were calling bullshit on this blatant 231 00:11:36,622 --> 00:11:40,662 Speaker 3: cruelty and that we have seen Amy Winehouse, we have 232 00:11:40,822 --> 00:11:44,222 Speaker 3: seen justin Bieber, we have seen Britney Spears. All of 233 00:11:44,222 --> 00:11:47,462 Speaker 3: these people go down a certain road, and we have 234 00:11:47,622 --> 00:11:51,582 Speaker 3: evolved in terms of our understanding of addiction. So shame 235 00:11:51,822 --> 00:11:57,422 Speaker 3: and addiction are like magnets, and shame is one of 236 00:11:57,182 --> 00:12:02,382 Speaker 3: the biggest hurdles to recovery. And that's what Kate talked 237 00:12:02,422 --> 00:12:05,022 Speaker 3: about in that statement, was that you do not shame 238 00:12:05,142 --> 00:12:08,542 Speaker 3: someone out of illness, you don't shame someone out of. 239 00:12:08,462 --> 00:12:12,822 Speaker 4: Addiction, but sometimes you need to shame the people around 240 00:12:12,862 --> 00:12:15,822 Speaker 4: them to take action to protect that person and to 241 00:12:15,902 --> 00:12:17,622 Speaker 4: protect vulnerable people in their care. 242 00:12:18,022 --> 00:12:20,422 Speaker 2: But I think that's disingenuous. Not from Eumia, but that 243 00:12:20,582 --> 00:12:23,142 Speaker 2: argument is I think, no, I know, I know you're not, 244 00:12:23,422 --> 00:12:26,502 Speaker 2: but I think it's a disingenuous argument because it presumes 245 00:12:26,542 --> 00:12:29,182 Speaker 2: a lot of things. It presumes that there wasn't already 246 00:12:29,222 --> 00:12:31,862 Speaker 2: a lot of steps in place for Kate to deal 247 00:12:31,902 --> 00:12:33,822 Speaker 2: with what she's clearly dealing with. That that is why 248 00:12:33,862 --> 00:12:36,062 Speaker 2: she wasn't at work in the first place, that she 249 00:12:36,102 --> 00:12:38,462 Speaker 2: doesn't have people around her who are helping her. It 250 00:12:38,542 --> 00:12:41,942 Speaker 2: presumes that, oh, well, the paparazzi stepped in and held 251 00:12:42,022 --> 00:12:45,062 Speaker 2: up a mirror and Kate, Richie or and you know, 252 00:12:45,182 --> 00:12:48,261 Speaker 2: you mentioned some other celebrity names there, Jesse, But there's 253 00:12:48,342 --> 00:12:50,942 Speaker 2: much closer to home than that. I interviewed Julie Goodwin 254 00:12:51,142 --> 00:12:54,902 Speaker 2: for mid This exact thing happened to her. She was 255 00:12:54,942 --> 00:12:58,502 Speaker 2: struggling with an alcohol problem and she was busted for dui, 256 00:12:58,862 --> 00:13:01,742 Speaker 2: and it was one of the many points along the 257 00:13:01,862 --> 00:13:04,782 Speaker 2: road that definitely pushed her to get. 258 00:13:04,542 --> 00:13:07,782 Speaker 1: Help, but not child in the car. 259 00:13:07,902 --> 00:13:11,102 Speaker 2: But the public nature of it was not, in fact 260 00:13:11,102 --> 00:13:14,182 Speaker 2: that pushed her down a much much darker mental health 261 00:13:14,262 --> 00:13:17,502 Speaker 2: road that saw her suicidal. It's not that an addict 262 00:13:17,622 --> 00:13:20,382 Speaker 2: or somebody struggling with mental health won't go that moment 263 00:13:20,542 --> 00:13:22,462 Speaker 2: when I got in the car with my kid. That's 264 00:13:22,502 --> 00:13:24,342 Speaker 2: not what happened with Julie Goodwin, and we don't know 265 00:13:24,342 --> 00:13:27,062 Speaker 2: that's what happened here, but you know, in an addict's journey, 266 00:13:27,262 --> 00:13:29,542 Speaker 2: that moment where I put myself in that danger and 267 00:13:29,542 --> 00:13:32,142 Speaker 2: other people in danger was definitely one of the pivotal points, 268 00:13:32,422 --> 00:13:34,702 Speaker 2: that moment where I had that fight with that person, 269 00:13:34,742 --> 00:13:37,342 Speaker 2: that moment where I spent all my money, all those things, 270 00:13:37,382 --> 00:13:40,262 Speaker 2: But the public shaming that he. 271 00:13:40,302 --> 00:13:42,702 Speaker 4: Actually was so different to Kate Richie than it was 272 00:13:42,742 --> 00:13:44,262 Speaker 4: to say mis Shelle bridges. 273 00:13:45,462 --> 00:13:48,062 Speaker 3: A lot of public goodwill towards Kate Richie. I think 274 00:13:48,102 --> 00:13:49,102 Speaker 3: people really love her. 275 00:13:49,262 --> 00:13:51,422 Speaker 2: We've known her all like all her life, pretty much 276 00:13:51,462 --> 00:13:53,022 Speaker 2: since she was for her. 277 00:13:53,262 --> 00:13:56,982 Speaker 3: Yeah, and I do think that we have changed how 278 00:13:57,022 --> 00:13:58,742 Speaker 3: we look at these stories. I've even noticed and this 279 00:13:58,822 --> 00:14:01,102 Speaker 3: isn't about celebrity. But if you are walking down the 280 00:14:01,142 --> 00:14:04,422 Speaker 3: street and someone is behaving in a way, maybe they're yelling, 281 00:14:04,462 --> 00:14:06,502 Speaker 3: maybe they're having an episode, maybe they're having a moment. 282 00:14:07,102 --> 00:14:10,182 Speaker 3: Ten years ago, I would see people pull their phones 283 00:14:10,182 --> 00:14:14,661 Speaker 3: out and there was this instinct to just film. Right recently, 284 00:14:14,702 --> 00:14:16,582 Speaker 3: I was walking down the street and that moment happened, 285 00:14:16,582 --> 00:14:18,262 Speaker 3: and I saw someone do it, and I saw someone 286 00:14:18,262 --> 00:14:21,222 Speaker 3: else say put it away. I reckon that we have 287 00:14:21,422 --> 00:14:24,782 Speaker 3: this broader public understanding that that is not how we 288 00:14:24,862 --> 00:14:31,102 Speaker 3: behave that there is something morally degenerate, disgusting and virtuous 289 00:14:31,142 --> 00:14:33,622 Speaker 3: about that kind of behavior, and it's undignified. It's not 290 00:14:33,662 --> 00:14:36,822 Speaker 3: giving dignity to the person that you're filming. So if 291 00:14:36,862 --> 00:14:40,982 Speaker 3: I saw someone getting in the car and they were intoxicated, 292 00:14:41,862 --> 00:14:44,662 Speaker 3: I might called police. I might, but I wouldn't get 293 00:14:44,662 --> 00:14:46,502 Speaker 3: my phone out because that's not how. 294 00:14:47,622 --> 00:14:50,622 Speaker 4: That's not your that's not your business model. Kate, If 295 00:14:50,622 --> 00:14:53,342 Speaker 4: you are listening and to anyone who is struggling at 296 00:14:53,342 --> 00:14:56,142 Speaker 4: the moment, we send love and we're rooting for you. 297 00:14:56,422 --> 00:14:58,622 Speaker 4: And if you or someone you know is struggling, we 298 00:14:58,622 --> 00:15:01,742 Speaker 4: will pop some resources and links in the show notes. 299 00:15:05,622 --> 00:15:09,342 Speaker 4: Have you checked on your labbier lately because it might 300 00:15:09,382 --> 00:15:10,382 Speaker 4: not be there anymore. 301 00:15:10,502 --> 00:15:11,302 Speaker 2: Yes, this. 302 00:15:14,022 --> 00:15:15,662 Speaker 1: Is CSI labia. 303 00:15:15,822 --> 00:15:21,022 Speaker 4: Apparently, the disappearing labbier is a menopausal symptom that affects 304 00:15:21,102 --> 00:15:22,702 Speaker 4: up to eighty five percent of women. 305 00:15:23,382 --> 00:15:26,102 Speaker 1: But hardly anyone's talking about it. Maybe we didn't notice. 306 00:15:26,142 --> 00:15:28,222 Speaker 2: Okay, wait, the same you can hear is everyone putting 307 00:15:28,222 --> 00:15:28,982 Speaker 2: their hand in their path? 308 00:15:29,942 --> 00:15:31,462 Speaker 3: May have you checked your labby recently? 309 00:15:31,502 --> 00:15:32,102 Speaker 1: Well, hang on. 310 00:15:33,782 --> 00:15:34,382 Speaker 2: Your hands. 311 00:15:34,422 --> 00:15:35,542 Speaker 3: We are in a public space. 312 00:15:35,942 --> 00:15:38,662 Speaker 4: Well it's still there, I think, Holly, have you checked 313 00:15:38,662 --> 00:15:40,902 Speaker 4: your But the other thing. 314 00:15:40,822 --> 00:15:41,702 Speaker 1: Is, you know there's two types. 315 00:15:41,742 --> 00:15:45,662 Speaker 4: There's the manora and the minordia majora MAJORA. I don't 316 00:15:45,662 --> 00:15:49,382 Speaker 4: even know the name. Okay, have you heard the catchy 317 00:15:49,382 --> 00:15:49,902 Speaker 4: little song? 318 00:15:50,102 --> 00:15:50,702 Speaker 1: Have A listened to? 319 00:15:50,782 --> 00:15:50,822 Speaker 3: This? 320 00:15:58,222 --> 00:16:00,022 Speaker 1: Side labia majora? 321 00:16:00,182 --> 00:16:02,782 Speaker 3: So majora is the outside? Manora is inside, and you're 322 00:16:02,782 --> 00:16:04,622 Speaker 3: telling me that I'm gonna lose. 323 00:16:05,062 --> 00:16:07,902 Speaker 4: When you say outside, do you mean lips or do 324 00:16:07,942 --> 00:16:10,742 Speaker 4: you mean outside flaps and inside flaps? 325 00:16:10,822 --> 00:16:14,022 Speaker 3: I mean outside flaps and majora inside flaps of manora? Right? 326 00:16:14,062 --> 00:16:15,942 Speaker 1: And then plus lips are a different thing. What are 327 00:16:15,942 --> 00:16:17,622 Speaker 1: they called? What? I don't know? 328 00:16:17,782 --> 00:16:19,782 Speaker 3: You have three sets? No, you have to go to 329 00:16:19,822 --> 00:16:20,782 Speaker 3: the doc bar of. 330 00:16:20,662 --> 00:16:21,582 Speaker 2: Course mia has more. 331 00:16:22,902 --> 00:16:24,022 Speaker 1: I'm at top of the lab. 332 00:16:24,462 --> 00:16:26,422 Speaker 3: You're not meant to have three la You're only meant 333 00:16:26,422 --> 00:16:26,982 Speaker 3: to have two. 334 00:16:26,902 --> 00:16:28,702 Speaker 1: Anyway during menopause. 335 00:16:28,742 --> 00:16:30,462 Speaker 3: Apparently, did you grow an extra pair? 336 00:16:30,542 --> 00:16:31,062 Speaker 1: I could have. 337 00:16:32,462 --> 00:16:37,182 Speaker 4: Dropping estrogen levels. Unlikely because too much estrogen. 338 00:16:38,102 --> 00:16:42,502 Speaker 3: That is, so you take anyone else have eight labia? 339 00:16:42,542 --> 00:16:45,702 Speaker 4: No, But apparently both the inner and the outer lips 340 00:16:45,702 --> 00:16:48,502 Speaker 4: of the vulver can literally shrink and in some cases 341 00:16:48,542 --> 00:16:50,902 Speaker 4: completely disappear, and it can start as early as your 342 00:16:50,902 --> 00:16:54,462 Speaker 4: thirties or your forties, just keeps coming. The medical term 343 00:16:54,702 --> 00:16:58,182 Speaker 4: is vaginal atrophy and it comes with some not so 344 00:16:58,302 --> 00:17:02,022 Speaker 4: fun effects like dryna's itching and painful sex. But here's 345 00:17:02,062 --> 00:17:04,942 Speaker 4: the thing, apparently you don't have to just cop it. 346 00:17:05,142 --> 00:17:08,902 Speaker 4: There are treatments available are from over the counter moisturizers 347 00:17:08,902 --> 00:17:10,462 Speaker 4: to prescription istrogen cree. 348 00:17:10,502 --> 00:17:12,381 Speaker 3: Because gen X women stood up and they said, not 349 00:17:12,742 --> 00:17:18,061 Speaker 3: our lips. You can take everything, but not our minora. 350 00:17:18,861 --> 00:17:22,422 Speaker 3: When it comes to Perry menopause and menopause, there's one 351 00:17:22,462 --> 00:17:25,901 Speaker 3: woman who would like you all to say less. And 352 00:17:25,942 --> 00:17:29,782 Speaker 3: that woman is not me. Despite speaking about your lobbyers, 353 00:17:29,782 --> 00:17:32,421 Speaker 3: before I'd even had my coffee on a Monday morning, 354 00:17:33,262 --> 00:17:36,221 Speaker 3: I welcome the chats as I'm a lovely person. 355 00:17:36,542 --> 00:17:38,221 Speaker 1: As it's also coming for you, my friend. 356 00:17:38,502 --> 00:17:42,941 Speaker 3: Yes, I'm not for a long time. 357 00:17:42,982 --> 00:17:47,542 Speaker 4: Hold onto your lobby disappear. We could start your thirties listening. 358 00:17:47,821 --> 00:17:50,181 Speaker 3: I stumbled across this article in The Australian over the 359 00:17:50,182 --> 00:17:53,581 Speaker 3: weekend by Sasha Callahan about how we are treating menopause 360 00:17:53,782 --> 00:17:56,821 Speaker 3: like an enemy to be defeated. But at what point 361 00:17:56,861 --> 00:17:59,461 Speaker 3: do we just accept we're getting old and give. 362 00:17:59,381 --> 00:17:59,901 Speaker 2: Up the fight? 363 00:18:01,262 --> 00:18:04,941 Speaker 3: Callahan says, all women are talking about is this bloody 364 00:18:04,982 --> 00:18:07,821 Speaker 3: menopause thing. You can't even open a bottle of rose 365 00:18:07,982 --> 00:18:09,381 Speaker 3: without someone talking about their drivers. 366 00:18:09,861 --> 00:18:13,061 Speaker 2: She argues, she's been to dinner with me and. 367 00:18:13,061 --> 00:18:16,101 Speaker 3: Every ailment from anxiety to tiredness, to your skin changing 368 00:18:16,101 --> 00:18:19,542 Speaker 3: to irritability is blamed on menopause. There's no more coming 369 00:18:19,542 --> 00:18:22,581 Speaker 3: to terms with that. Apparently we instead have to, and 370 00:18:22,621 --> 00:18:25,982 Speaker 3: this is a quote, put ourselves through a biochemical process 371 00:18:26,022 --> 00:18:28,502 Speaker 3: of rejuvenation in the hope that we can hold off 372 00:18:28,502 --> 00:18:29,581 Speaker 3: to kline and death. 373 00:18:30,061 --> 00:18:33,222 Speaker 2: Is she talking about medication? Is she talking? Is hrt? 374 00:18:33,422 --> 00:18:34,422 Speaker 1: Also? How old is she? 375 00:18:34,982 --> 00:18:37,182 Speaker 3: I would like to know that information, but I didn't 376 00:18:37,182 --> 00:18:39,421 Speaker 3: look it up because we play the ball, not the. 377 00:18:39,381 --> 00:18:42,061 Speaker 1: Person need to up my hit because I want to 378 00:18:42,222 --> 00:18:42,901 Speaker 1: swell her in. 379 00:18:43,262 --> 00:18:45,901 Speaker 3: She says that Perry has become a case of self 380 00:18:45,942 --> 00:18:50,502 Speaker 3: I D rather than anything recognizably medical. You say, you reckon, 381 00:18:50,542 --> 00:18:53,221 Speaker 3: you're experiencing Perry, and the hormones will be described, and 382 00:18:53,341 --> 00:18:56,141 Speaker 3: all this awareness raising is probably very welcomed by the 383 00:18:56,182 --> 00:19:02,302 Speaker 3: manufacturers of HRT. You too seem irritable. Is it time 384 00:19:02,341 --> 00:19:04,622 Speaker 3: you just accepted menopause and got on with. 385 00:19:04,621 --> 00:19:07,702 Speaker 1: It down and accepted position? 386 00:19:07,861 --> 00:19:11,982 Speaker 2: Because we're not fight It's not about fighting it right. 387 00:19:12,061 --> 00:19:14,982 Speaker 2: She says that you know, you can't open a bottle 388 00:19:14,982 --> 00:19:17,221 Speaker 2: of rose without someone talking about the driver vagina. I 389 00:19:17,262 --> 00:19:19,741 Speaker 2: know lots of menopausal women who also feel a bit 390 00:19:19,782 --> 00:19:22,581 Speaker 2: icky about that, about how intimate were expected to go. 391 00:19:22,702 --> 00:19:25,222 Speaker 2: Now everybody like, what's going on with your vagina? What's 392 00:19:25,222 --> 00:19:27,101 Speaker 2: going If that's not your thing, it doesn't have to 393 00:19:27,141 --> 00:19:29,782 Speaker 2: be your thing. But the great thing about all this 394 00:19:30,182 --> 00:19:33,422 Speaker 2: yapping that gen X has been doing is that for 395 00:19:33,462 --> 00:19:35,621 Speaker 2: a long time, more than a third of women have 396 00:19:35,702 --> 00:19:39,461 Speaker 2: had quite debilitating symptoms with all kinds of issues that 397 00:19:39,502 --> 00:19:41,581 Speaker 2: related to their hormones, Perry and menopause, and we. 398 00:19:41,581 --> 00:19:43,742 Speaker 1: Didn't even realize they were related to our hormone. We 399 00:19:43,782 --> 00:19:45,101 Speaker 1: didn't just would have vagina was for. 400 00:19:45,381 --> 00:19:47,302 Speaker 2: We thought we were losing it, we thought we were 401 00:19:47,341 --> 00:19:50,341 Speaker 2: going crazy. We were branded as angry and all the 402 00:19:50,381 --> 00:19:54,061 Speaker 2: things that Sasha thinks we should embrace, and medical research 403 00:19:54,101 --> 00:19:56,662 Speaker 2: wasn't being done and nobody was doing anything about it. 404 00:19:56,821 --> 00:19:59,661 Speaker 2: Whereas it's funny, how often when men, as they get older, 405 00:19:59,782 --> 00:20:03,661 Speaker 2: things start to droop. Perhaps there's a little pill for 406 00:20:03,702 --> 00:20:04,141 Speaker 2: that like this. 407 00:20:04,262 --> 00:20:07,702 Speaker 3: Do you think that sometimes, playing Devil's advocate, we can 408 00:20:07,742 --> 00:20:14,581 Speaker 3: flate real symptoms like in som now, brain fog, anxiety, 409 00:20:14,821 --> 00:20:17,341 Speaker 3: what happens to your bones, like real stuff, all kinds 410 00:20:17,341 --> 00:20:21,262 Speaker 3: of stuff with the more superficial that maybe that's what 411 00:20:21,661 --> 00:20:24,061 Speaker 3: some people are going. It's one thing to want to 412 00:20:24,101 --> 00:20:27,701 Speaker 3: be able to sleep, but you know, thinking that buying 413 00:20:27,742 --> 00:20:30,861 Speaker 3: a cream or something is going to wind back the 414 00:20:30,901 --> 00:20:33,341 Speaker 3: clock is you know, ridiculous. 415 00:20:33,381 --> 00:20:35,621 Speaker 1: Well it might in you downstairs, but I agree with you. 416 00:20:35,702 --> 00:20:38,742 Speaker 4: I think that there's a difference between saying I don't 417 00:20:38,782 --> 00:20:42,462 Speaker 4: want to look like I'm getting older, which happens also, 418 00:20:42,542 --> 00:20:46,462 Speaker 4: funnily enough, during perry and menopause, and as you say, 419 00:20:46,462 --> 00:20:51,782 Speaker 4: those superficial signs, but every single symptom that my HRT 420 00:20:52,222 --> 00:20:55,061 Speaker 4: treats and every single symptom that women talk about, whether 421 00:20:55,101 --> 00:20:57,502 Speaker 4: you choose to take hit or not, there are other 422 00:20:57,542 --> 00:21:01,941 Speaker 4: ways to treat it, and even just knowing what causes something. 423 00:21:02,502 --> 00:21:05,222 Speaker 3: Arguing too, does it need to be treated, well. 424 00:21:05,061 --> 00:21:07,662 Speaker 2: It only needs to be treated inverted commas if it's 425 00:21:07,661 --> 00:21:10,661 Speaker 2: negatively affecting your life. Right, And there's no argument that 426 00:21:10,702 --> 00:21:12,341 Speaker 2: there is a bit of a gold rush going on, 427 00:21:12,861 --> 00:21:15,462 Speaker 2: like drink this tea, rub this cream on, take these 428 00:21:15,462 --> 00:21:18,702 Speaker 2: supplements like this candle. There is no question that that's 429 00:21:18,742 --> 00:21:22,542 Speaker 2: all happening out there. That's definitely real. Because GEDEX women 430 00:21:22,542 --> 00:21:24,621 Speaker 2: have started talking about something, as we said, that hadn't 431 00:21:24,621 --> 00:21:26,381 Speaker 2: been being talked about before. We've been talking about it 432 00:21:26,422 --> 00:21:29,101 Speaker 2: for apparently thirty seconds, and that we're all being told 433 00:21:29,182 --> 00:21:31,542 Speaker 2: to shush. You don't need to treat things unless they're 434 00:21:31,542 --> 00:21:34,502 Speaker 2: really impacting your life. But as Mia said before, a 435 00:21:34,542 --> 00:21:36,702 Speaker 2: lot of it really does impact a lot of women's 436 00:21:36,702 --> 00:21:39,381 Speaker 2: lives for a period of time. And not being able 437 00:21:39,422 --> 00:21:42,862 Speaker 2: to ask your doctor without being dismissed as being hysterical, 438 00:21:43,222 --> 00:21:45,782 Speaker 2: surely that is just an information exchange. Right. 439 00:21:46,022 --> 00:21:50,222 Speaker 3: Women have been accepting everything that happens to their bodies 440 00:21:50,542 --> 00:21:53,262 Speaker 3: naturally for tens of thousands of years. And this reminded 441 00:21:53,302 --> 00:21:56,621 Speaker 3: me a little bit of the conversation we have about childbirth, 442 00:21:56,942 --> 00:22:00,982 Speaker 3: that it's like, yeah, it's this natural thing, and like, yeah, 443 00:22:01,182 --> 00:22:03,462 Speaker 3: women have been doing it forever. Why are you trying 444 00:22:03,502 --> 00:22:05,982 Speaker 3: to resist this natural process? And the thing about doing 445 00:22:06,022 --> 00:22:10,101 Speaker 3: anything naturally is that inherent within nature is there's a 446 00:22:10,141 --> 00:22:13,502 Speaker 3: lot of violence and a lot of pain, suffering and 447 00:22:13,581 --> 00:22:19,141 Speaker 3: suffering and potentially death and like really scary stuff. And 448 00:22:19,222 --> 00:22:23,902 Speaker 3: so if you want menopause to happen naturally without these interventions, 449 00:22:23,942 --> 00:22:28,901 Speaker 3: what we've seen is women leaving the workforce prematurely, having 450 00:22:28,942 --> 00:22:31,621 Speaker 3: brain fogs so badly that you can't form a coherent thought. 451 00:22:31,661 --> 00:22:34,381 Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that the two things for me, the 452 00:22:34,422 --> 00:22:36,542 Speaker 4: two sides of it. There's the shame which I think 453 00:22:36,581 --> 00:22:39,102 Speaker 4: all of this talk about dry vaginas and everything, even 454 00:22:39,141 --> 00:22:41,661 Speaker 4: though you might roll your eyes, it's all about bringing 455 00:22:41,702 --> 00:22:44,741 Speaker 4: something out of the shamehole that's been a fantastic thing 456 00:22:44,782 --> 00:22:47,341 Speaker 4: when it's happened to mental health, when it's happened to miscarriage. 457 00:22:47,581 --> 00:22:50,742 Speaker 3: It also prepares domestic charag surprise. 458 00:22:51,101 --> 00:22:53,542 Speaker 2: And also they might actually be pleasantly surprised, because not 459 00:22:53,621 --> 00:22:56,382 Speaker 2: everybody does get all that stuff, so you might be like, oh, look, 460 00:22:56,381 --> 00:22:57,381 Speaker 2: that didn't happen to me. 461 00:22:57,621 --> 00:23:00,622 Speaker 4: Yeah, And then there's the suffering part, which is there's 462 00:23:00,621 --> 00:23:03,742 Speaker 4: twenty five percent of women will have no symptoms, good 463 00:23:03,742 --> 00:23:06,421 Speaker 4: for them, awesome, twenty five percent of women will have 464 00:23:06,502 --> 00:23:10,422 Speaker 4: incredibly debilitating symptoms that will really imp on their life, 465 00:23:10,542 --> 00:23:13,061 Speaker 4: and the rest of us will probably be somewhere in 466 00:23:13,101 --> 00:23:15,942 Speaker 4: the middle, which is where i'd say I fall. And 467 00:23:15,982 --> 00:23:19,821 Speaker 4: it's very subjective whether you choose to do something about 468 00:23:19,861 --> 00:23:24,942 Speaker 4: it or not, buy cream, take hormones, whatever. But information 469 00:23:25,061 --> 00:23:28,061 Speaker 4: is power. We know that, and I think that a 470 00:23:28,101 --> 00:23:32,262 Speaker 4: lot of this has also been about retraining doctors because 471 00:23:32,302 --> 00:23:37,182 Speaker 4: the level of misinformation and buck up little camper vibes 472 00:23:37,621 --> 00:23:41,262 Speaker 4: from the medical profession for a really long time has 473 00:23:41,502 --> 00:23:42,742 Speaker 4: really damaged women. 474 00:23:42,861 --> 00:23:44,341 Speaker 1: So I think it's all good. 475 00:23:45,341 --> 00:23:48,302 Speaker 5: On the nineteenth of January this year, the suburb of 476 00:23:48,381 --> 00:23:53,502 Speaker 5: Dural police were contacted and subsequently recovered a caravan on 477 00:23:53,542 --> 00:23:58,702 Speaker 5: a residential property rural property. That caravan contained an amount 478 00:23:58,742 --> 00:24:03,461 Speaker 5: of explosives and some indication that those explosives might be 479 00:24:03,542 --> 00:24:06,341 Speaker 5: used in some form of anti Semitic attack. 480 00:24:06,661 --> 00:24:10,262 Speaker 3: That was a New South Wales Deputy Police Commissioner David Hudson. 481 00:24:10,661 --> 00:24:14,861 Speaker 3: Australia's current national terrorism threat level remains probable after a 482 00:24:14,942 --> 00:24:18,741 Speaker 3: number of hate fueled attacks against the Jewish community, including, 483 00:24:19,422 --> 00:24:22,902 Speaker 3: as Hudson referred to their the discovery of a caravan 484 00:24:23,022 --> 00:24:27,822 Speaker 3: in Jural, a suburb of Sydney packed with explosives. Despite 485 00:24:27,901 --> 00:24:30,861 Speaker 3: New South Wales's Premier Chris Min's being briefed about the 486 00:24:30,861 --> 00:24:34,461 Speaker 3: caravan the following day on January twenty, the information was 487 00:24:34,581 --> 00:24:38,981 Speaker 3: purposely not passed on to Prime Minister Anthony Aarbernezi Minns 488 00:24:39,101 --> 00:24:43,622 Speaker 3: says that's because it was a strictly confidential investigation. Very 489 00:24:43,621 --> 00:24:45,821 Speaker 3: few people were aware of it and very few people 490 00:24:45,942 --> 00:24:48,141 Speaker 3: needed to know about it. He said, I take that 491 00:24:48,222 --> 00:24:53,022 Speaker 3: responsibility very seriously. The information about the caravan was leaked 492 00:24:53,061 --> 00:24:56,421 Speaker 3: by the Daily Telegraph and since debates have surfaced about 493 00:24:56,462 --> 00:24:59,982 Speaker 3: who should have known and when I kept thinking reading 494 00:25:00,022 --> 00:25:02,862 Speaker 3: these I trust the police, I trust the state government, 495 00:25:02,982 --> 00:25:06,222 Speaker 3: and if informing the public or the PM would risk 496 00:25:06,302 --> 00:25:10,382 Speaker 3: an investigation, then I totally understand not release this information 497 00:25:10,462 --> 00:25:15,181 Speaker 3: to the public. Mia. These threats are specifically aimed at 498 00:25:15,222 --> 00:25:18,902 Speaker 3: the Jewish community, a community that you belong to. Do 499 00:25:18,942 --> 00:25:21,662 Speaker 3: you think the public has a right to know when 500 00:25:21,821 --> 00:25:22,861 Speaker 3: something happens like that. 501 00:25:25,341 --> 00:25:27,101 Speaker 4: I hate to sit on the fence of two things 502 00:25:27,141 --> 00:25:31,942 Speaker 4: can be true. But I understand the reasoning, the well 503 00:25:31,982 --> 00:25:36,741 Speaker 4: intentioned reasoning, of not informing the Jewish community, or in 504 00:25:36,782 --> 00:25:39,502 Speaker 4: fact the wider community about this so they could try 505 00:25:39,502 --> 00:25:43,302 Speaker 4: and solve the crime and catch the perpetrators. However, and 506 00:25:43,341 --> 00:25:45,262 Speaker 4: I don't speak for the Jewish community at all, I 507 00:25:45,341 --> 00:25:48,902 Speaker 4: just speak for myself. I would have liked to know, 508 00:25:49,182 --> 00:25:51,821 Speaker 4: because I think when you are part of a group 509 00:25:51,861 --> 00:25:55,462 Speaker 4: of people that are being targeted and targeted every day 510 00:25:56,061 --> 00:26:00,382 Speaker 4: in terrifying ways. You know, in the streets and suburbs 511 00:26:00,502 --> 00:26:05,221 Speaker 4: near where I live, synagogues and cars and houses and 512 00:26:05,341 --> 00:26:11,141 Speaker 4: daycare centers and schools are being firebombed and vandalised every day, 513 00:26:11,422 --> 00:26:14,861 Speaker 4: and there are helicopters flying low twenty four to seven. 514 00:26:15,581 --> 00:26:17,982 Speaker 4: The threat is real, and the threat has increased now. 515 00:26:18,621 --> 00:26:21,702 Speaker 4: The Jewish community, everyone I have spoken to, is feeling 516 00:26:22,061 --> 00:26:26,782 Speaker 4: incredibly distressed, incredibly unsafe. And I think, again we talk 517 00:26:26,821 --> 00:26:30,181 Speaker 4: about information is power. You might make different decisions if 518 00:26:30,182 --> 00:26:33,662 Speaker 4: you knew that the threat was not I can't believe 519 00:26:33,661 --> 00:26:36,982 Speaker 4: I'm saying just about cars being set on fire and 520 00:26:37,182 --> 00:26:42,181 Speaker 4: daycare centers being set on fire but about mass casualty 521 00:26:42,182 --> 00:26:46,341 Speaker 4: events and people talking about blowing up a synagogue that 522 00:26:46,502 --> 00:26:49,182 Speaker 4: I have attended, the Jewish Museum, which I have also 523 00:26:49,302 --> 00:26:52,421 Speaker 4: attended just in the last few weeks, which my children attend, 524 00:26:53,262 --> 00:26:56,381 Speaker 4: people would make different choices. They might make different choices. Now, 525 00:26:56,502 --> 00:26:59,821 Speaker 4: synagogues were packed on Friday because everybody wanted to go 526 00:26:59,901 --> 00:27:03,941 Speaker 4: and show their support. I went to synagogue. Did I 527 00:27:03,982 --> 00:27:05,022 Speaker 4: take my granddaughter? 528 00:27:05,182 --> 00:27:09,821 Speaker 1: No? I didn't because I knew. So you make risk assess. 529 00:27:09,821 --> 00:27:12,101 Speaker 1: Some people chose not to send their children to Jewish 530 00:27:12,101 --> 00:27:15,341 Speaker 1: schools or Jewish daycares or changed enrollments. A lot of 531 00:27:15,422 --> 00:27:18,862 Speaker 1: us where Mugga David Star of David necklaces, particularly at 532 00:27:18,861 --> 00:27:22,621 Speaker 1: the moment around our next at universities in public, we 533 00:27:22,702 --> 00:27:25,382 Speaker 1: might choose to hide those. And I can't believe I'm 534 00:27:25,381 --> 00:27:29,101 Speaker 1: even saying this, but I think everybody's doing their best 535 00:27:29,742 --> 00:27:33,262 Speaker 1: at a time that is shocking. And I'm not going 536 00:27:33,302 --> 00:27:36,061 Speaker 1: to backseat drive and criticize what the police are doing 537 00:27:36,061 --> 00:27:38,621 Speaker 1: at all, but I just think it's worth putting forward 538 00:27:38,661 --> 00:27:39,861 Speaker 1: that perspective as well. 539 00:27:40,782 --> 00:27:43,661 Speaker 3: After the break, We've got an inspirational act of micro 540 00:27:43,742 --> 00:27:45,061 Speaker 3: pettiness to share. 541 00:27:44,782 --> 00:27:49,061 Speaker 2: With you unlimited out loud access. We drop episodes every 542 00:27:49,101 --> 00:27:53,461 Speaker 2: Tuesday and Thursday exclusively for Mamma Mia subscribers. Follow the 543 00:27:53,502 --> 00:27:55,061 Speaker 2: link in the show notes to get us in your 544 00:27:55,101 --> 00:27:58,261 Speaker 2: ears five days a week. And a huge thank you 545 00:27:58,381 --> 00:28:00,302 Speaker 2: to all our current subscribers. 546 00:28:06,942 --> 00:28:08,982 Speaker 4: You may have seen that our conversation on last week's 547 00:28:08,982 --> 00:28:12,942 Speaker 4: show where we're identified a phenomenon called micro pettiness where 548 00:28:12,942 --> 00:28:15,661 Speaker 4: people do tiny, often i perceptibly petty things as a 549 00:28:15,661 --> 00:28:17,061 Speaker 4: way to make themselves feel better. 550 00:28:17,782 --> 00:28:20,542 Speaker 3: We were viral, didn't We turns out that out louders 551 00:28:21,022 --> 00:28:24,741 Speaker 3: very bad. I'm self identified as the most petty of 552 00:28:24,782 --> 00:28:27,302 Speaker 3: any podcast community, and they're like, oh, I have some examples. 553 00:28:27,422 --> 00:28:29,661 Speaker 4: Our big boss Ruth came up with this. It's a 554 00:28:29,702 --> 00:28:34,901 Speaker 4: totally original syndrome phenomenon micropenniness, and we're leaning in. I 555 00:28:34,942 --> 00:28:37,141 Speaker 4: think that one of the people who clearly saw that 556 00:28:37,262 --> 00:28:41,622 Speaker 4: video and said hold my beer is Princess Kate Middleton because. 557 00:28:41,622 --> 00:28:43,382 Speaker 3: She zone for being micro petty. 558 00:28:43,462 --> 00:28:44,221 Speaker 1: Well, no, she's not. 559 00:28:44,382 --> 00:28:46,822 Speaker 4: You would think she would definitely rise above that. However, 560 00:28:47,422 --> 00:28:50,661 Speaker 4: Kensington Palace has announced that she will no longer share 561 00:28:50,702 --> 00:28:54,902 Speaker 4: details of her outfits with the public when she goes 562 00:28:55,382 --> 00:29:00,262 Speaker 4: to a public occasion. Now this isn't entirely new, but 563 00:29:00,342 --> 00:29:03,661 Speaker 4: they have announced it. They tested this out when she 564 00:29:04,182 --> 00:29:08,622 Speaker 4: visited Wales recently, and the reason being they say it's 565 00:29:08,622 --> 00:29:09,941 Speaker 4: not about micropetty at all. 566 00:29:09,982 --> 00:29:12,902 Speaker 1: They say they want to shift focus from her fashion 567 00:29:13,582 --> 00:29:15,421 Speaker 1: to her actual work. 568 00:29:15,782 --> 00:29:19,622 Speaker 2: I think Kate has come back from her year off 569 00:29:19,661 --> 00:29:23,662 Speaker 2: of being treated for cancer with big knop energy. That's 570 00:29:23,702 --> 00:29:27,302 Speaker 2: what I think, yea, even though this seems like a 571 00:29:27,342 --> 00:29:30,222 Speaker 2: tiny thing. So what they mean is usually say Kate 572 00:29:30,302 --> 00:29:32,622 Speaker 2: goes and opens a bridge or goes to a childcare 573 00:29:32,661 --> 00:29:35,542 Speaker 2: center or whatever she does. Obviously, press releases come out. 574 00:29:35,582 --> 00:29:37,221 Speaker 2: They tell you where she was, They tell you who 575 00:29:37,302 --> 00:29:39,022 Speaker 2: she met, who she shook hands with, what the main 576 00:29:39,062 --> 00:29:41,701 Speaker 2: points were, and they tell you what she was wearing. 577 00:29:41,862 --> 00:29:43,702 Speaker 3: I didn't realize. They tell you that the. 578 00:29:43,661 --> 00:29:45,701 Speaker 2: Media want to know, right, they always want to know, 579 00:29:45,862 --> 00:29:48,062 Speaker 2: no matter what, and they got the facts in front 580 00:29:48,102 --> 00:29:50,701 Speaker 2: of them. The media will still want to know, and 581 00:29:50,742 --> 00:29:52,421 Speaker 2: we'll go and find out. We could all do a 582 00:29:52,462 --> 00:29:54,782 Speaker 2: reverse Google image search in a hot minute for the 583 00:29:54,862 --> 00:29:56,142 Speaker 2: latest pair of nude pumps. 584 00:29:56,262 --> 00:29:58,982 Speaker 4: It's not ideal because now it won't be confirmed. Now 585 00:29:59,022 --> 00:30:01,062 Speaker 4: it might be that it might not be that. 586 00:30:01,222 --> 00:30:03,862 Speaker 2: But what she's doing is She's saying, I am no 587 00:30:03,942 --> 00:30:06,422 Speaker 2: longer being complicit in your obsession with. 588 00:30:06,422 --> 00:30:08,582 Speaker 1: My clothes over I'm not going to make you job. 589 00:30:08,462 --> 00:30:11,782 Speaker 2: Easier for not known for being rebellious. But this is 590 00:30:11,822 --> 00:30:15,022 Speaker 2: basically Jesse every time Maya puts her phone to her 591 00:30:15,062 --> 00:30:17,862 Speaker 2: for a fit check, and Jesse gets her back up 592 00:30:17,902 --> 00:30:19,542 Speaker 2: and shrugs and goes, I don't know what I'm wearing. 593 00:30:19,582 --> 00:30:21,542 Speaker 2: I don't care. That's what Kate's doing. 594 00:30:21,542 --> 00:30:23,702 Speaker 1: It's about what I'm saying. She's what I'm wearing. 595 00:30:23,822 --> 00:30:26,941 Speaker 2: Kate's going like, I'm doing my job. I'm wearing clothes. 596 00:30:26,942 --> 00:30:28,502 Speaker 2: I know you're taking my picture. Do you want me 597 00:30:28,502 --> 00:30:29,661 Speaker 2: to talk about my clothes. I'm not going to talk 598 00:30:29,661 --> 00:30:32,182 Speaker 2: about my clothes. Let's talk about early childhood interventions. Let's 599 00:30:32,222 --> 00:30:33,421 Speaker 2: talk about that. And everyone goes, no, we want to 600 00:30:33,422 --> 00:30:34,022 Speaker 2: talk about your hat. 601 00:30:34,062 --> 00:30:36,782 Speaker 3: She's like, no, I mean one, what Kate's been through, 602 00:30:36,782 --> 00:30:39,981 Speaker 3: I'm sure has impacted this decision, but as well the 603 00:30:40,102 --> 00:30:42,461 Speaker 3: climate in the UK at the moment, in terms of 604 00:30:42,782 --> 00:30:46,542 Speaker 3: cost of living, in terms of really serious political issues 605 00:30:46,582 --> 00:30:50,582 Speaker 3: that are being discussed, and the lives like friends that 606 00:30:50,622 --> 00:30:52,782 Speaker 3: I know in London, things really hard at the moment. 607 00:30:53,302 --> 00:30:55,222 Speaker 3: Does it feel a bit on the nose to have 608 00:30:55,822 --> 00:30:58,701 Speaker 3: you know, Kate saying this is from Zara. 609 00:30:58,661 --> 00:31:00,342 Speaker 4: No, I think that would and the thing is that 610 00:31:00,422 --> 00:31:02,462 Speaker 4: about her unlike Megan. 611 00:31:03,222 --> 00:31:03,902 Speaker 1: It's interesting. 612 00:31:03,942 --> 00:31:07,382 Speaker 4: It's a real passag thing that the media often does 613 00:31:07,462 --> 00:31:10,342 Speaker 4: with women that don't do it with Kate. They only 614 00:31:10,382 --> 00:31:14,022 Speaker 4: do it with women that are more polarizing. So, for example, 615 00:31:14,622 --> 00:31:16,502 Speaker 4: they'll do it to Zoe Foster Blake. They did it 616 00:31:16,502 --> 00:31:18,981 Speaker 4: for a while where paparazzi would follow her around and 617 00:31:19,022 --> 00:31:21,702 Speaker 4: then they would say, you know, her outfit is worth 618 00:31:21,982 --> 00:31:23,702 Speaker 4: X amount of dime. I was thinking that they would 619 00:31:23,702 --> 00:31:25,822 Speaker 4: go and price it all. They do it to Megan Marklek, right, 620 00:31:26,062 --> 00:31:27,862 Speaker 4: but they don't usually do it to Kate. And Kate 621 00:31:27,902 --> 00:31:31,022 Speaker 4: also doesn't wear very high end things. And there's also 622 00:31:31,062 --> 00:31:33,262 Speaker 4: an understanding like the queen, you know that she's not 623 00:31:33,302 --> 00:31:36,222 Speaker 4: a fashion plate. But you know who this is bad 624 00:31:36,262 --> 00:31:38,781 Speaker 4: for is the fashion industry. I mean, it's not that 625 00:31:38,942 --> 00:31:41,982 Speaker 4: bad because, as Holly said, it's not like that information 626 00:31:42,742 --> 00:31:44,982 Speaker 4: won't they can cut their hand up they say that's 627 00:31:44,982 --> 00:31:47,342 Speaker 4: our skirt. They can you know, then allowed to take 628 00:31:47,382 --> 00:31:48,941 Speaker 4: freebies the rules. This is one of the things that 629 00:31:48,982 --> 00:31:51,382 Speaker 4: Megan hated. She's like, why can't I get free clothes. 630 00:31:51,422 --> 00:31:53,661 Speaker 2: And that's why what you'll often get as a journalist 631 00:31:53,822 --> 00:31:57,422 Speaker 2: is you'll get an email from the fashion label saying, 632 00:31:57,502 --> 00:31:59,822 Speaker 2: Kate Middleton wore my skirt. Here's a picture of Kate 633 00:31:59,822 --> 00:32:02,502 Speaker 2: Midleton wearing my skirt. But they didn't send that skirt Kate. 634 00:32:02,542 --> 00:32:04,741 Speaker 2: Because Kate can't get freebies, she has to pay for 635 00:32:04,742 --> 00:32:06,661 Speaker 2: her clothes. It's one of the royal rules. And she 636 00:32:06,822 --> 00:32:09,542 Speaker 2: also often gets a lot of crap for repeating it. 637 00:32:09,542 --> 00:32:10,702 Speaker 2: Outfits right maya. 638 00:32:10,702 --> 00:32:14,102 Speaker 4: Yes, And I actually think that she uses this very strategically. 639 00:32:14,222 --> 00:32:16,542 Speaker 4: Someone else who does this very well is Cate Blanchette, 640 00:32:16,542 --> 00:32:19,822 Speaker 4: where they will, you know, their publicist will confirm that, yes, 641 00:32:19,902 --> 00:32:23,222 Speaker 4: this is the same dress that Kate wore to the 642 00:32:23,342 --> 00:32:27,102 Speaker 4: opening of The Something of the Something in twenty twenty three, 643 00:32:27,342 --> 00:32:30,181 Speaker 4: and she's had it altered or she's just wearing it again. 644 00:32:30,382 --> 00:32:32,502 Speaker 4: And people really like that, and the media really like 645 00:32:32,582 --> 00:32:34,661 Speaker 4: that too, because it means that they can show the 646 00:32:34,702 --> 00:32:36,542 Speaker 4: two dresses side by side and look at it then 647 00:32:36,582 --> 00:32:39,782 Speaker 4: and look at it now. But there's an instagrammer and 648 00:32:39,822 --> 00:32:42,382 Speaker 4: journalist called Elizabeth Holmes. She's right for the Wall Street Journal. 649 00:32:42,382 --> 00:32:44,582 Speaker 4: She's now sort of made a specialty. She's not that 650 00:32:44,622 --> 00:32:47,862 Speaker 4: Elizabeth Holmes writing about royals, and she's got a brand 651 00:32:47,982 --> 00:32:51,462 Speaker 4: or Instagram page called so Many Thoughts, and she has 652 00:32:51,902 --> 00:32:55,701 Speaker 4: taken a very journalistic approach to analyzing the wardrobes of 653 00:32:55,782 --> 00:32:58,982 Speaker 4: royal women, everyone from the Queen to Diana to now 654 00:32:59,102 --> 00:33:01,982 Speaker 4: Princess Kate and Megan Mirkale. And her point is, or 655 00:33:02,062 --> 00:33:05,862 Speaker 4: her philosophy is that because royal women can't speak, they 656 00:33:05,982 --> 00:33:08,782 Speaker 4: really don't have a voice, right, as Megan Michael also 657 00:33:08,902 --> 00:33:13,422 Speaker 4: complained about understandably, and they signify a lot, They say 658 00:33:13,462 --> 00:33:16,742 Speaker 4: a lot through the clothes that they wear. That's one 659 00:33:16,742 --> 00:33:20,102 Speaker 4: of their primary forms of communication. So I think it's 660 00:33:20,222 --> 00:33:23,142 Speaker 4: very micro petty, and I don't say that as a criticism. 661 00:33:23,302 --> 00:33:26,462 Speaker 4: I think the principle of it is awesome. 662 00:33:26,822 --> 00:33:31,702 Speaker 3: I agree. I wonder if this had something to do 663 00:33:31,942 --> 00:33:35,182 Speaker 3: with what happened in November. So in November she made 664 00:33:35,222 --> 00:33:39,661 Speaker 3: an appearance at the Remembrance Day event, and her appearance 665 00:33:39,822 --> 00:33:42,262 Speaker 3: was so scrutinized. We talked about it on the show. 666 00:33:42,661 --> 00:33:45,941 Speaker 3: People made awful comments about aging and close ups of 667 00:33:45,942 --> 00:33:48,382 Speaker 3: her face and all that kind of stuff. And I've 668 00:33:48,422 --> 00:33:51,742 Speaker 3: got this image in my head of Kate going home 669 00:33:52,102 --> 00:33:54,822 Speaker 3: stumping her feet and being like, why can't I just 670 00:33:54,902 --> 00:33:56,941 Speaker 3: go to work like everyone else? Why can't I just 671 00:33:56,982 --> 00:33:59,262 Speaker 3: go to work and do my job and not have 672 00:33:59,382 --> 00:34:02,702 Speaker 3: it be about my appearance being dissected in some sort 673 00:34:02,742 --> 00:34:03,502 Speaker 3: of public sport. 674 00:34:03,622 --> 00:34:05,622 Speaker 1: I think you spot on there, Jesse, because that's what 675 00:34:05,622 --> 00:34:07,622 Speaker 1: you signed up for. Unfortunately that's the job. 676 00:34:07,661 --> 00:34:09,661 Speaker 2: But the tricky part have to be. But Kate is 677 00:34:09,702 --> 00:34:13,502 Speaker 2: at a turning point because she's getting to her forties, 678 00:34:13,542 --> 00:34:16,542 Speaker 2: because she is no longer a hot young thing in 679 00:34:16,542 --> 00:34:19,262 Speaker 2: inverted commas, the scrutiny on her is going to shift. 680 00:34:19,502 --> 00:34:21,502 Speaker 2: So it's always been about her weight and her hair 681 00:34:21,502 --> 00:34:23,261 Speaker 2: and whatever, but now it's going to be about how 682 00:34:23,302 --> 00:34:25,701 Speaker 2: she's aging, because welcome to being a grown up woman. 683 00:34:25,781 --> 00:34:28,181 Speaker 2: It'll be like, let's count the wrinkles, let's decide whether 684 00:34:28,302 --> 00:34:30,701 Speaker 2: or not she's had any treatments, she had any surgery, 685 00:34:30,701 --> 00:34:32,941 Speaker 2: hows she had burtos. That is going to be all 686 00:34:32,982 --> 00:34:35,861 Speaker 2: the discourse about her appearance, and she can't control that, 687 00:34:36,302 --> 00:34:40,341 Speaker 2: but she can control how much she participates in it. 688 00:34:40,382 --> 00:34:42,861 Speaker 2: And I feel like, to your point, Mire, You're so right, 689 00:34:43,221 --> 00:34:45,221 Speaker 2: they're not allowed to speak, so silence is kind of 690 00:34:45,221 --> 00:34:48,261 Speaker 2: her only power, right, Yeah, So she can go. I 691 00:34:48,342 --> 00:34:50,741 Speaker 2: know you're going to do that, and it's really going 692 00:34:50,822 --> 00:34:52,861 Speaker 2: to piss me off. This is my job to turn 693 00:34:52,942 --> 00:34:54,582 Speaker 2: up to things and you're going to see me with 694 00:34:54,661 --> 00:34:57,142 Speaker 2: your eyes and have thoughts about it. But I'm not 695 00:34:57,342 --> 00:34:59,822 Speaker 2: playing that game anymore and stomping her foot. 696 00:34:59,582 --> 00:35:01,262 Speaker 4: As you said, do you know what you can also 697 00:35:01,342 --> 00:35:03,502 Speaker 4: tell is that she's not a woman who enjoys clothes. 698 00:35:04,382 --> 00:35:06,701 Speaker 4: They're certain great, no, no, but that does got nothing 699 00:35:06,741 --> 00:35:09,461 Speaker 4: to do with it. There's certain women who love it, 700 00:35:09,542 --> 00:35:13,902 Speaker 4: who love clothes. Meghan Markel loves clothes. I love clothes. 701 00:35:14,462 --> 00:35:17,701 Speaker 4: Doesn't mean that you two don't look great, particularly you Jesse. 702 00:35:19,582 --> 00:35:23,342 Speaker 4: Some women just don't like you genuinely. It's not fun 703 00:35:23,422 --> 00:35:27,062 Speaker 4: for you. It's not interesting for you. You like a nice outfit, 704 00:35:27,102 --> 00:35:28,861 Speaker 4: you like to look good, and you do look good, 705 00:35:29,102 --> 00:35:31,821 Speaker 4: but it doesn't feed you and you get no joy 706 00:35:31,862 --> 00:35:32,221 Speaker 4: from it. 707 00:35:32,302 --> 00:35:34,582 Speaker 3: Really, I don't release exactly. 708 00:35:34,382 --> 00:35:35,221 Speaker 1: And that's why. 709 00:35:35,382 --> 00:35:38,861 Speaker 4: And I think Kate genuinely brings her no joy and 710 00:35:38,902 --> 00:35:41,462 Speaker 4: you can just see that. So I think that that 711 00:35:41,661 --> 00:35:44,062 Speaker 4: is also part of it, is just saying this does 712 00:35:44,102 --> 00:35:46,701 Speaker 4: nothing for me. I'm not going to play the game. 713 00:35:47,582 --> 00:35:47,901 Speaker 1: That's all. 714 00:35:47,902 --> 00:35:49,781 Speaker 2: We've got time for it. Out louders, thank you so 715 00:35:49,862 --> 00:35:52,222 Speaker 2: much for being with us here on this Monday. Well, 716 00:35:52,502 --> 00:35:54,461 Speaker 2: if we're going to have a show where we can't 717 00:35:54,502 --> 00:35:57,542 Speaker 2: stop me from talking about Labia anytime soon. 718 00:36:00,221 --> 00:36:04,542 Speaker 1: That woman's right. I actually am inclined to agree with her. 719 00:36:04,582 --> 00:36:05,462 Speaker 1: I don't know what's going on. 720 00:36:05,502 --> 00:36:08,062 Speaker 3: It's my pseudonyms. That that is my pseudonym riting in 721 00:36:08,062 --> 00:36:10,181 Speaker 3: the Australian. So my boss will not stop talking about 722 00:36:10,181 --> 00:36:11,181 Speaker 3: a vaginal Dryna. 723 00:36:11,902 --> 00:36:13,741 Speaker 2: Rose, No, Rose, it's just come up. 724 00:36:13,942 --> 00:36:15,582 Speaker 1: I started to put it s Vernon. 725 00:36:15,701 --> 00:36:17,261 Speaker 4: I wasn't even on the show and I heard her 726 00:36:17,302 --> 00:36:20,542 Speaker 4: talking about needing that bomb for her driver Jina, and 727 00:36:20,582 --> 00:36:21,342 Speaker 4: she's a child. 728 00:36:21,382 --> 00:36:24,341 Speaker 2: Okay, that's me. 729 00:36:24,542 --> 00:36:25,982 Speaker 1: I didn't start this. Thank you. 730 00:36:26,221 --> 00:36:28,701 Speaker 2: We'll be back with our Grammys round up tomorrow. We'll 731 00:36:28,741 --> 00:36:29,102 Speaker 2: see you that. 732 00:36:29,261 --> 00:36:30,622 Speaker 3: Check on your Manora. 733 00:36:32,622 --> 00:36:35,781 Speaker 4: Shout out to any Mom and Maya subscribers listening. If 734 00:36:35,822 --> 00:36:38,382 Speaker 4: you love the show and want to support us as well, 735 00:36:38,582 --> 00:36:41,102 Speaker 4: subscribing to MoMA Mia is the very best way to 736 00:36:41,181 --> 00:36:41,542 Speaker 4: do so. 737 00:36:41,622 --> 00:36:43,542 Speaker 1: There is a link in the episode description