1 00:00:10,327 --> 00:00:13,047 Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast. 2 00:00:13,727 --> 00:00:16,767 Speaker 2: Mamma Mere acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters 3 00:00:16,807 --> 00:00:23,767 Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on Hello and welcome to 4 00:00:23,807 --> 00:00:26,127 Speaker 2: Mamma Mia out loud. If what women are actually talking 5 00:00:26,167 --> 00:00:29,367 Speaker 2: about on Monday, the second of September, I'm Holly Waynwright, 6 00:00:29,567 --> 00:00:30,847 Speaker 2: I'm mea Friedman. 7 00:00:30,567 --> 00:00:31,807 Speaker 3: And I'm Jesse Stevens. 8 00:00:31,967 --> 00:00:35,647 Speaker 2: And on the show today, Angelina Jolie has no friends? 9 00:00:36,087 --> 00:00:38,407 Speaker 2: Is that a problem we discussed? 10 00:00:38,647 --> 00:00:40,967 Speaker 3: Maya delivers a monologue. 11 00:00:41,247 --> 00:00:43,447 Speaker 1: Also has always been a red flag for me. 12 00:00:43,967 --> 00:00:47,447 Speaker 2: Why everywhere you look there's a row going on about 13 00:00:47,447 --> 00:00:50,967 Speaker 2: how much the government should know about your sexuality. We're 14 00:00:51,047 --> 00:00:55,807 Speaker 2: explaining the census fuss and a very famous sexy calendar 15 00:00:56,007 --> 00:00:59,167 Speaker 2: says that it is back post me to sexier than 16 00:00:59,207 --> 00:01:02,727 Speaker 2: ever and what is going on with that? But first, 17 00:01:02,847 --> 00:01:03,887 Speaker 2: Jesse Stevens. 18 00:01:04,127 --> 00:01:07,327 Speaker 3: In case you missed it, a paralympian named Ahmed Kelly 19 00:01:07,687 --> 00:01:11,887 Speaker 3: has been on an emotional roller coaster after being disqualified 20 00:01:12,007 --> 00:01:14,087 Speaker 3: in the heat of his one hundred and fifty meter 21 00:01:14,127 --> 00:01:16,927 Speaker 3: medley and then going on to win a silver medal 22 00:01:17,207 --> 00:01:19,647 Speaker 3: in the same event. That is a little riddle. How 23 00:01:19,647 --> 00:01:21,567 Speaker 3: do you get disqualified and then win a medal. 24 00:01:22,007 --> 00:01:24,047 Speaker 2: It's one of our paralympins, right, Australian. 25 00:01:24,327 --> 00:01:29,327 Speaker 3: He's Australian, very love Ahmed. Kelly swam in the heat 26 00:01:29,447 --> 00:01:31,407 Speaker 3: of the medley event and when he looked up at 27 00:01:31,447 --> 00:01:33,527 Speaker 3: the board he saw the three letters. 28 00:01:33,167 --> 00:01:35,447 Speaker 1: That no swimmer wants to see, DSQ. 29 00:01:35,407 --> 00:01:43,327 Speaker 3: DSQ say you're a commentator. The thing was, though no 30 00:01:43,367 --> 00:01:46,447 Speaker 3: one could work out why he was disqualified, not even 31 00:01:46,447 --> 00:01:50,847 Speaker 3: the pul side commentator. Kelly, who is missing both arms 32 00:01:51,007 --> 00:01:54,407 Speaker 3: below the elbow and both legs, were swimming in the 33 00:01:54,447 --> 00:01:58,607 Speaker 3: medley and you're required to swim backstroke, then breaststroke and 34 00:01:58,607 --> 00:02:01,767 Speaker 3: then a freestyle lap. Right, that's the last one. Did 35 00:02:01,847 --> 00:02:04,727 Speaker 3: you know that in your freestyle lap you can actually 36 00:02:04,807 --> 00:02:07,807 Speaker 3: swim freestyle or butterfly? You know how the word is 37 00:02:07,847 --> 00:02:12,447 Speaker 3: free style and people choose freestyle because it's the fastest. 38 00:02:12,487 --> 00:02:13,247 Speaker 1: Uh huh. 39 00:02:13,367 --> 00:02:17,487 Speaker 3: But for Kelly, he was like, I'm gonna swim butterfly. 40 00:02:17,567 --> 00:02:19,487 Speaker 3: He's been to four Olympic Games. Like the man knows 41 00:02:19,487 --> 00:02:22,967 Speaker 3: the rules. He does anyway, they just qualified him, and then, 42 00:02:23,007 --> 00:02:27,047 Speaker 3: following protests from Swimming Australia, he was reinstated and then 43 00:02:27,087 --> 00:02:29,807 Speaker 3: went on to win a silver medal in a post 44 00:02:29,807 --> 00:02:33,207 Speaker 3: swim interview, Kelly said, I've gone through a lot worse 45 00:02:33,407 --> 00:02:35,687 Speaker 3: and it's just been great to represent Australia in a 46 00:02:35,727 --> 00:02:38,527 Speaker 3: Paralympic final. I can never get used to it. It's 47 00:02:38,567 --> 00:02:42,247 Speaker 3: always a special thing to do. Perspective, perspective and my 48 00:02:42,367 --> 00:02:45,887 Speaker 3: favorite thing, I mean, other than watching these phenomenal athletes, 49 00:02:45,927 --> 00:02:48,127 Speaker 3: are some of the stories that come out of the Paralympics. 50 00:02:48,127 --> 00:02:50,647 Speaker 3: Because I met Kelly spent the first seven years of 51 00:02:50,687 --> 00:02:53,847 Speaker 3: his life in an orphanage in Baghdad, and along with 52 00:02:53,967 --> 00:02:56,807 Speaker 3: his brother, he was adopted by an Australian humanitarian work 53 00:02:56,887 --> 00:03:00,647 Speaker 3: art named Moira Kelly. Both he and his brother were 54 00:03:00,687 --> 00:03:03,647 Speaker 3: born with severely disabled limbs and just like many other 55 00:03:03,647 --> 00:03:07,487 Speaker 3: babies in Iraq, they had been impacted by chemical warfare. 56 00:03:07,807 --> 00:03:11,527 Speaker 3: And this is Kelly's para Olympic Games. He's been there since. 57 00:03:11,687 --> 00:03:14,607 Speaker 1: I legine. I mean, if you're not watching the Paralympics, 58 00:03:14,807 --> 00:03:19,007 Speaker 1: you're missing out. I was cheering for Dana Krees. She's 59 00:03:19,047 --> 00:03:24,047 Speaker 1: twenty two, she's from Victoria. It's her first Paralympics and 60 00:03:24,087 --> 00:03:27,207 Speaker 1: she won a bronze medal in the women's javelin F 61 00:03:27,287 --> 00:03:30,687 Speaker 1: three four, which was Australia's tenth medal on day four 62 00:03:30,727 --> 00:03:33,327 Speaker 1: we are crushing it. At the paralymic we are. 63 00:03:33,167 --> 00:03:36,327 Speaker 3: In sixth place. So again, what Australians like is what 64 00:03:36,407 --> 00:03:38,487 Speaker 3: we're doing very well at things? Yeah, and we are 65 00:03:38,487 --> 00:03:39,007 Speaker 3: doing very well. 66 00:03:39,047 --> 00:03:43,567 Speaker 2: Can I ask a potentially sensitive question all the categories? 67 00:03:43,607 --> 00:03:47,847 Speaker 2: So you just said javelin three four? I get confused 68 00:03:47,847 --> 00:03:50,487 Speaker 2: about those, right. Sometimes you're watching and you're like, I 69 00:03:50,487 --> 00:03:52,447 Speaker 2: don't think I understand what I'm watching. 70 00:03:52,607 --> 00:03:52,767 Speaker 3: Yeap. 71 00:03:53,047 --> 00:03:54,607 Speaker 2: Is there like a place where. 72 00:03:54,367 --> 00:03:57,127 Speaker 1: You can just get across all that stuff? Yes, it's 73 00:03:57,127 --> 00:04:04,127 Speaker 1: called Google. I'll send the link after that. I'll send 74 00:04:04,167 --> 00:04:05,287 Speaker 1: you a link after the show. 75 00:04:05,727 --> 00:04:07,927 Speaker 3: It's true though, because sometimes you watch a swimming race, 76 00:04:08,407 --> 00:04:12,927 Speaker 3: I mean you go, oh, these people have varying different disabilities. 77 00:04:12,967 --> 00:04:13,127 Speaker 2: Yeah. 78 00:04:13,287 --> 00:04:16,967 Speaker 3: Yeah, And what's fascinating is watching how they differently approach 79 00:04:17,247 --> 00:04:19,127 Speaker 3: the race and you think, you know, who looks like 80 00:04:19,127 --> 00:04:21,447 Speaker 3: they're gonna win, and then they don't. But you're right, 81 00:04:21,487 --> 00:04:24,607 Speaker 3: there are different categories and there's a very specific system 82 00:04:24,647 --> 00:04:27,207 Speaker 3: that goes you know, this is this category, this category. 83 00:04:27,647 --> 00:04:29,687 Speaker 3: So we will link in the show notes so that 84 00:04:29,887 --> 00:04:31,847 Speaker 3: you can understand Holly on. 85 00:04:31,887 --> 00:04:35,247 Speaker 2: The weekend the Venice Film Festival was like an explosion 86 00:04:35,287 --> 00:04:38,607 Speaker 2: in a gen x Icon Factory. Nicole Kidman was there, 87 00:04:38,687 --> 00:04:40,887 Speaker 2: George Clooney was there, Brad Pitt was there, and they 88 00:04:40,927 --> 00:04:43,367 Speaker 2: all looked exactly the same as they always have, just 89 00:04:43,887 --> 00:04:47,927 Speaker 2: like I do. And then there was the great Angelina 90 00:04:48,007 --> 00:04:51,247 Speaker 2: Joli come Back our Ange as I will forever call her, 91 00:04:51,447 --> 00:04:54,207 Speaker 2: was there because she's got her first starring role in 92 00:04:54,247 --> 00:04:57,887 Speaker 2: a big deal Oscar Worthy movie in decades. Right, she's 93 00:04:57,927 --> 00:05:00,847 Speaker 2: in a biopic of Maria Kallis, who's like the iconic 94 00:05:01,047 --> 00:05:04,687 Speaker 2: opera singer from the fifties sixties. The movie got an 95 00:05:04,687 --> 00:05:07,207 Speaker 2: eight minute standing ovation. It's directed by the guy who 96 00:05:07,247 --> 00:05:10,407 Speaker 2: did Spencer and did Jackie. You know this is all 97 00:05:10,847 --> 00:05:14,327 Speaker 2: it's trilogy. This is the last idea of like iconic women. 98 00:05:14,927 --> 00:05:18,167 Speaker 2: If you've seen either of those movies, they're artie, they're dark. 99 00:05:18,647 --> 00:05:21,407 Speaker 2: That's the vibe of this one. And she sings in it, 100 00:05:21,487 --> 00:05:24,167 Speaker 2: and she sings opra. She did all the training. 101 00:05:24,527 --> 00:05:25,047 Speaker 3: Can she sing? 102 00:05:25,087 --> 00:05:25,447 Speaker 1: Do we know? 103 00:05:25,487 --> 00:05:26,447 Speaker 3: Have we ever heard her sing? 104 00:05:26,607 --> 00:05:29,087 Speaker 1: She said something really interesting in the interview. She said 105 00:05:29,207 --> 00:05:31,607 Speaker 1: she always loved singing, and she used to sing when 106 00:05:31,647 --> 00:05:35,247 Speaker 1: she was younger, and she had a relationship with someone 107 00:05:35,647 --> 00:05:38,127 Speaker 1: who was very cruel to her about her singing. So 108 00:05:38,167 --> 00:05:40,047 Speaker 1: she stopped. She didn't say who. 109 00:05:39,887 --> 00:05:43,727 Speaker 2: That was speaking of, which she did manage while she 110 00:05:43,807 --> 00:05:45,927 Speaker 2: was there and getting her eight minutes standing ovation for 111 00:05:45,967 --> 00:05:49,727 Speaker 2: the movie, etc. To avoid Brad Pitt, despite Venice being 112 00:05:49,767 --> 00:05:53,167 Speaker 2: a very small place thanks to a very carefully curated 113 00:05:53,167 --> 00:05:56,047 Speaker 2: PR schedule. Now, look, I could talk about the joy 114 00:05:56,087 --> 00:05:58,047 Speaker 2: of seeing Jolie back at work for a week. I 115 00:05:58,247 --> 00:06:00,447 Speaker 2: just love her and considering all the shit that's been 116 00:06:00,487 --> 00:06:04,527 Speaker 2: thrown at her since her very acrimonious and actually legally 117 00:06:04,607 --> 00:06:07,727 Speaker 2: still ongoing split from Pitt. 118 00:06:07,487 --> 00:06:08,127 Speaker 1: Thanks to him. 119 00:06:08,207 --> 00:06:10,767 Speaker 2: Yeah, try to hear me, so dragging it out. We're 120 00:06:10,767 --> 00:06:12,287 Speaker 2: not going to go into all the details, of course, 121 00:06:12,327 --> 00:06:15,087 Speaker 2: but top line, she alleges that he physically abused her 122 00:06:15,367 --> 00:06:17,847 Speaker 2: and some of their six children before they're split eight 123 00:06:17,967 --> 00:06:21,487 Speaker 2: years ago now eight years. He's always denied it, and 124 00:06:21,527 --> 00:06:24,047 Speaker 2: he claims that she's long been running a smear campaign 125 00:06:24,047 --> 00:06:26,927 Speaker 2: against him. She of course, has been raising all those 126 00:06:27,007 --> 00:06:29,087 Speaker 2: kids pretty much on her own since that divorce, but 127 00:06:29,207 --> 00:06:31,327 Speaker 2: now the youngest of them is sixteen, and so she 128 00:06:31,527 --> 00:06:34,247 Speaker 2: is back at work, which is great to see. But 129 00:06:34,327 --> 00:06:37,607 Speaker 2: it's actually a comment from Jolie about friendship that started 130 00:06:37,647 --> 00:06:40,047 Speaker 2: the conversation we're having today. Because Mea and I have 131 00:06:40,127 --> 00:06:44,607 Speaker 2: an ongoing, long standing disagreement about Jolie, and this speaks 132 00:06:44,607 --> 00:06:47,247 Speaker 2: to it. As part of the comeback and doubtless an 133 00:06:47,247 --> 00:06:49,607 Speaker 2: Oscar campaign, She's doing lots of interviews and this first 134 00:06:49,607 --> 00:06:52,407 Speaker 2: one is in the Hollywood Reporter and she was asked 135 00:06:52,407 --> 00:06:55,167 Speaker 2: who she trusts, who she calls at three am, and 136 00:06:55,247 --> 00:06:59,047 Speaker 2: Jolie said, I don't really have those kind of relationships. 137 00:06:59,447 --> 00:07:02,967 Speaker 2: Maybe it's losing your parent young, maybe it's working, maybe 138 00:07:02,967 --> 00:07:05,967 Speaker 2: it's being somebody who's been betrayed a lot. I don't 139 00:07:05,967 --> 00:07:08,647 Speaker 2: have a lot of those warm, close relationships as much 140 00:07:08,687 --> 00:07:11,087 Speaker 2: that I lean on. My mother was very close to me. 141 00:07:11,167 --> 00:07:13,207 Speaker 2: I lost her. I've had a few friends over the 142 00:07:13,287 --> 00:07:16,007 Speaker 2: years not be there for my family and their hour 143 00:07:16,047 --> 00:07:18,927 Speaker 2: of need. I have only a couple of people that 144 00:07:19,127 --> 00:07:23,367 Speaker 2: I trust. I want to know Jessie why this is 145 00:07:23,407 --> 00:07:26,047 Speaker 2: a bold thing for a woman or maybe even a 146 00:07:26,047 --> 00:07:29,487 Speaker 2: person to admit that they don't really have friends. 147 00:07:30,007 --> 00:07:33,527 Speaker 3: It is almost the ultimate status symbol to have a 148 00:07:33,567 --> 00:07:36,567 Speaker 3: gaggle of girlfriends. We've talked about that before, to kind 149 00:07:36,567 --> 00:07:40,127 Speaker 3: of be surrounded by, you know, even the Taylor Swift 150 00:07:40,127 --> 00:07:44,047 Speaker 3: example or the contrast it is always made with Angelina Jolie, 151 00:07:44,087 --> 00:07:46,767 Speaker 3: which is Jennifer Aniston, and she famously is very close 152 00:07:46,807 --> 00:07:49,607 Speaker 3: to Corney Cox. She's very close to Reese Witherspoon. They're 153 00:07:49,607 --> 00:07:50,727 Speaker 3: always photographed out. 154 00:07:50,927 --> 00:07:52,647 Speaker 2: She's always going on holiday with her power. 155 00:07:52,847 --> 00:07:56,607 Speaker 3: Yes. Whereas for Angelina Jolly, that's never been part of 156 00:07:56,647 --> 00:08:01,167 Speaker 3: her identity. And it's probably worth acknowledging too that she's 157 00:08:01,447 --> 00:08:08,207 Speaker 3: been seen constructed by the tabloids, but also due to 158 00:08:08,287 --> 00:08:10,927 Speaker 3: a few plops points in her life, seen as a 159 00:08:10,927 --> 00:08:13,687 Speaker 3: bit of not a girl's girl. And that's because, of 160 00:08:13,767 --> 00:08:17,607 Speaker 3: course Brad Pitt was married to Anniston when he met Jolly, 161 00:08:18,167 --> 00:08:21,927 Speaker 3: but also Billy Bob Thornton, who was with Laura Dern 162 00:08:22,367 --> 00:08:25,487 Speaker 3: when he met Angelina Jolly. There's a famous quote by 163 00:08:25,527 --> 00:08:28,047 Speaker 3: Laura Dern. I left our home to work on a movie, 164 00:08:28,127 --> 00:08:30,527 Speaker 3: and while I was away, my boyfriend got married and 165 00:08:30,567 --> 00:08:33,807 Speaker 3: I've never heard from him again. In saying that, as 166 00:08:33,847 --> 00:08:36,687 Speaker 3: soon as I saw this quote, I went, duh. She's 167 00:08:36,727 --> 00:08:39,167 Speaker 3: a single mum to six kids, like when do you 168 00:08:39,287 --> 00:08:44,487 Speaker 3: fit in friendship when you're that busy. She's also an introvert, 169 00:08:44,727 --> 00:08:47,607 Speaker 3: like you hear the way that she talks about her 170 00:08:47,967 --> 00:08:53,127 Speaker 3: life and her relationships and sometimes I think that family life, 171 00:08:53,167 --> 00:08:56,327 Speaker 3: having all those kids can be really good for introverts. 172 00:08:56,407 --> 00:08:58,567 Speaker 3: And that's what she said. She's got some beautiful quotes 173 00:08:58,607 --> 00:08:59,207 Speaker 3: about like. 174 00:08:59,327 --> 00:09:00,927 Speaker 2: Because your life is all at home and you don't 175 00:09:00,967 --> 00:09:01,527 Speaker 2: have to leave the house. 176 00:09:01,887 --> 00:09:03,727 Speaker 3: Yeah, she says, like I never expect to be the 177 00:09:03,767 --> 00:09:06,487 Speaker 3: one that everybody understands or likes. And that's okay because 178 00:09:06,487 --> 00:09:08,167 Speaker 3: I know who I am and the kids know who 179 00:09:08,167 --> 00:09:10,087 Speaker 3: I am. That was in twenty seven and she said, 180 00:09:10,127 --> 00:09:12,647 Speaker 3: we're really such a unit. They're the best friends I've 181 00:09:12,647 --> 00:09:15,607 Speaker 3: ever had. Nobody in my life has ever stood by 182 00:09:15,647 --> 00:09:16,087 Speaker 3: me more. 183 00:09:16,567 --> 00:09:18,287 Speaker 2: She gave birth to her friends. 184 00:09:18,647 --> 00:09:23,887 Speaker 1: Well like that, Yeah, some of them. I feel a 185 00:09:23,927 --> 00:09:26,207 Speaker 1: little bit that way too, although I do have a 186 00:09:26,247 --> 00:09:31,127 Speaker 1: lot of female friends, but I've always found it notable 187 00:09:31,207 --> 00:09:33,807 Speaker 1: and I'm not part of the crew who is. Oh, 188 00:09:33,807 --> 00:09:37,447 Speaker 1: I'm team Jennifer. I think marriage's end. I think Brad 189 00:09:37,487 --> 00:09:41,247 Speaker 1: Pitt's the asshole here. You know, it's worth noting that 190 00:09:41,847 --> 00:09:44,607 Speaker 1: he's also premiering a movie in Venice, and he chose 191 00:09:44,607 --> 00:09:48,647 Speaker 1: this moment to hard launch his relationship at age sixty 192 00:09:48,687 --> 00:09:51,647 Speaker 1: with thirty four year old woman called Dennez, who he's 193 00:09:51,687 --> 00:09:53,327 Speaker 1: been dating for a while. But he knew that would 194 00:09:53,327 --> 00:09:56,167 Speaker 1: pull lots and lots of focus to him away from 195 00:09:56,207 --> 00:09:58,047 Speaker 1: her and a diversion. 196 00:09:58,167 --> 00:10:00,527 Speaker 3: It's telling that they're not co parenting. It's telling that 197 00:10:00,567 --> 00:10:02,847 Speaker 3: she's done like that the kids have sided with her. 198 00:10:02,927 --> 00:10:05,367 Speaker 1: Correct. Yeah, because the kids were not all little when 199 00:10:05,407 --> 00:10:05,887 Speaker 1: they split. 200 00:10:06,287 --> 00:10:09,327 Speaker 2: He famously too, does have friends, right. The body thing 201 00:10:09,367 --> 00:10:12,047 Speaker 2: with Clooney has been knowing on for decades and he's 202 00:10:12,087 --> 00:10:14,447 Speaker 2: in this movie and so it looks like he's got 203 00:10:14,487 --> 00:10:18,127 Speaker 2: them in his camp. Yeah. And they're very powerful and likable. Yes, 204 00:10:18,207 --> 00:10:20,807 Speaker 2: And Angelina is always the lower Are we scared of 205 00:10:20,847 --> 00:10:21,847 Speaker 2: women who are loners? 206 00:10:22,127 --> 00:10:24,887 Speaker 1: Whenever a woman says I'm just not a girl's girl, 207 00:10:25,207 --> 00:10:29,687 Speaker 1: that immediately makes my hackles go up, because it's a 208 00:10:29,687 --> 00:10:32,207 Speaker 1: bit that's sort of I'm just the cool girl, Like 209 00:10:32,407 --> 00:10:34,767 Speaker 1: I think the term is a pick may girl who 210 00:10:34,767 --> 00:10:37,327 Speaker 1: would prefer to hang with the guys. I just feel 211 00:10:37,327 --> 00:10:40,367 Speaker 1: suspicious of that, perhaps because it's something I don't understand. 212 00:10:41,007 --> 00:10:44,047 Speaker 1: I absolutely adore women, and I can't imagine not having 213 00:10:44,367 --> 00:10:48,287 Speaker 1: close female friends. But just the fact that she's never photographed. 214 00:10:48,367 --> 00:10:50,487 Speaker 1: It's not just that she's never photographed, because I understand 215 00:10:50,527 --> 00:10:54,087 Speaker 1: how paparazzi photos and photos at Red carpets are not everything. 216 00:10:54,087 --> 00:10:57,407 Speaker 1: They're just a tiny part of life. But she never 217 00:10:57,487 --> 00:11:01,967 Speaker 1: references other women, and I've always found that interesting and 218 00:11:02,247 --> 00:11:03,327 Speaker 1: sort of notable. 219 00:11:03,767 --> 00:11:05,607 Speaker 2: I think she's very much a lone wolf. 220 00:11:05,887 --> 00:11:08,927 Speaker 3: She says that she lost her mother and she's been 221 00:11:08,967 --> 00:11:11,487 Speaker 3: betray by her father. I think she would probably have, 222 00:11:11,727 --> 00:11:14,927 Speaker 3: just from like pop psychology one oh one, probably some 223 00:11:15,047 --> 00:11:15,927 Speaker 3: trust issues. 224 00:11:16,927 --> 00:11:18,927 Speaker 1: Yeah, she talks about that in this interview. And a 225 00:11:18,927 --> 00:11:21,247 Speaker 1: couple of other nuggets that I loved were she did 226 00:11:21,287 --> 00:11:24,127 Speaker 1: the interview for the Hollywood Reporter in her home, which 227 00:11:24,167 --> 00:11:27,487 Speaker 1: I always find extraordinary when celebrities let journalists into their home. 228 00:11:27,607 --> 00:11:30,767 Speaker 1: I can't understand why they would do it because it 229 00:11:30,847 --> 00:11:34,727 Speaker 1: is so intimate. She's direct, though. The reporter says, can 230 00:11:34,767 --> 00:11:36,687 Speaker 1: I ask about the status of your divorce? And she 231 00:11:36,727 --> 00:11:40,527 Speaker 1: says no, And then she asks her, well, you've been 232 00:11:40,567 --> 00:11:43,207 Speaker 1: in la for a while now, since like twenty sixteen. 233 00:11:43,847 --> 00:11:46,047 Speaker 1: You used to travel a lot more, And she says, 234 00:11:46,487 --> 00:11:49,727 Speaker 1: I have to stay here because of custody until my 235 00:11:49,847 --> 00:11:54,207 Speaker 1: children are eighteen, but the youngest two nearly are and 236 00:11:54,247 --> 00:11:56,167 Speaker 1: then I think I'll go and live in Cambodia for 237 00:11:56,207 --> 00:11:59,167 Speaker 1: a long time. And that's interesting too. Something we didn't 238 00:11:59,167 --> 00:12:01,527 Speaker 1: know that she has to stay there even though the 239 00:12:01,607 --> 00:12:04,847 Speaker 1: kids don't see him, that he's prevented her from taking 240 00:12:04,887 --> 00:12:07,687 Speaker 1: them out of the country. So I think she's a 241 00:12:07,687 --> 00:12:08,687 Speaker 1: complex character. 242 00:12:09,247 --> 00:12:11,047 Speaker 2: I think one of the reasons why people are still 243 00:12:11,087 --> 00:12:14,127 Speaker 2: fascinated by her because it was interesting to me watching 244 00:12:14,127 --> 00:12:18,527 Speaker 2: the gen X celebs at that festival because they are 245 00:12:18,607 --> 00:12:21,287 Speaker 2: still around, right, you know, Kidman's in lots of movies 246 00:12:21,327 --> 00:12:23,567 Speaker 2: at the moment, She's on lots of covers, she's in 247 00:12:23,607 --> 00:12:26,207 Speaker 2: lots of shoots. Clooney and Pitt are trying to make 248 00:12:26,247 --> 00:12:29,767 Speaker 2: their buddy stuff still happen after twenty odd years, and 249 00:12:29,967 --> 00:12:31,807 Speaker 2: of course they are. They're talented, at the top of 250 00:12:31,807 --> 00:12:34,527 Speaker 2: their game, and there's a younger obviously, a younger gen 251 00:12:34,607 --> 00:12:37,647 Speaker 2: coming in Hard just Shalow Maze and you know those 252 00:12:37,687 --> 00:12:40,287 Speaker 2: guys and Zendeia and everything. It's like, what do you 253 00:12:40,327 --> 00:12:42,407 Speaker 2: do with the old movie stars now that we don't 254 00:12:42,447 --> 00:12:45,047 Speaker 2: just shuffle them off. One of the reasons I've always 255 00:12:45,087 --> 00:12:48,367 Speaker 2: loved Angelina Jolie, and I think the reason why her 256 00:12:48,527 --> 00:12:51,287 Speaker 2: image is still interesting is because it is a different 257 00:12:51,367 --> 00:12:53,927 Speaker 2: vision of womanhood. Right right from the beginning of her 258 00:12:53,967 --> 00:12:56,967 Speaker 2: being famous, She's never played the I'm just like you thing, 259 00:12:57,007 --> 00:12:58,887 Speaker 2: which is what we like our celebrities to do. We 260 00:12:59,007 --> 00:13:01,687 Speaker 2: like to believe they're just like us. But right from 261 00:13:01,687 --> 00:13:03,847 Speaker 2: the beginning with her vials of blood around her neck 262 00:13:03,927 --> 00:13:07,767 Speaker 2: and kissing her brother at the Oscars and the extraordinary 263 00:13:07,927 --> 00:13:11,727 Speaker 2: weird projects but very offbeat project she takes on. She 264 00:13:11,767 --> 00:13:14,927 Speaker 2: directs movies in other languages. She's always trying to shine 265 00:13:14,927 --> 00:13:17,647 Speaker 2: spotlights on difficult conflicts that nobody really wants to look 266 00:13:17,647 --> 00:13:21,447 Speaker 2: at like she's never been I'm just like you. I 267 00:13:21,487 --> 00:13:23,927 Speaker 2: am nothing like you. You are nothing like me. And 268 00:13:24,007 --> 00:13:28,207 Speaker 2: I think that whether or not you like that probably 269 00:13:28,247 --> 00:13:31,087 Speaker 2: says something about whether or not you feel the need 270 00:13:31,127 --> 00:13:32,967 Speaker 2: to connect to somebody to like what they do. 271 00:13:33,127 --> 00:13:34,447 Speaker 1: That's so interesting because. 272 00:13:34,207 --> 00:13:38,407 Speaker 3: She's always been famous, right like her father was. I 273 00:13:38,407 --> 00:13:42,447 Speaker 3: imagine that friendships are really difficult to cultivate in that environment, 274 00:13:42,527 --> 00:13:46,167 Speaker 3: and maybe if more people were honest, then we would 275 00:13:46,207 --> 00:13:48,767 Speaker 3: find that a lot of people that famous are incredibly 276 00:13:48,807 --> 00:13:49,567 Speaker 3: isolated well, and. 277 00:13:49,527 --> 00:13:51,767 Speaker 2: A lot of non famous people are. I mean, we 278 00:13:51,847 --> 00:13:53,527 Speaker 2: hear from women all the time, don't we that Like 279 00:13:54,127 --> 00:13:56,847 Speaker 2: the idea of having this amazing group of girlfriends is 280 00:13:56,927 --> 00:14:00,687 Speaker 2: very aspirational, but it's not necessarily a reality for everybody, 281 00:14:00,727 --> 00:14:03,287 Speaker 2: and maybe it's important for those people to hear somebody. 282 00:14:03,327 --> 00:14:05,167 Speaker 2: I'm not that I'm saying they're sitting around waiting for 283 00:14:05,527 --> 00:14:10,247 Speaker 2: Angelina Jolie to validate their life, but for somebody to say, well, actually, no, 284 00:14:10,407 --> 00:14:11,407 Speaker 2: that's not what I have. 285 00:14:11,967 --> 00:14:14,807 Speaker 3: I received a sub stack this morning from an Helen 286 00:14:14,847 --> 00:14:18,407 Speaker 3: Peterson and the subject line was did your parents have friends? 287 00:14:18,567 --> 00:14:19,167 Speaker 4: Good question? 288 00:14:19,727 --> 00:14:22,207 Speaker 3: And she's writing a book at the moment, staring a 289 00:14:22,247 --> 00:14:24,767 Speaker 3: big project, and that's how she opens the questions that 290 00:14:24,807 --> 00:14:26,007 Speaker 3: she has about friendship. 291 00:14:26,007 --> 00:14:27,367 Speaker 2: Pretty it's her book about friendship. 292 00:14:27,487 --> 00:14:29,527 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's about friendship, and a lot of people are 293 00:14:29,527 --> 00:14:32,327 Speaker 3: surprised by that because they're like, oh, that's not something 294 00:14:32,327 --> 00:14:35,927 Speaker 3: I think about a lot. But she says that there's 295 00:14:36,007 --> 00:14:37,927 Speaker 3: a few things she's pulled out of the data. The 296 00:14:37,967 --> 00:14:43,207 Speaker 3: first is that if your parents didn't have friends growing up, 297 00:14:43,767 --> 00:14:45,607 Speaker 3: that is a source of deep sadness. 298 00:14:45,887 --> 00:14:47,847 Speaker 1: Like, so, you mean if your parents didn't have friends 299 00:14:47,887 --> 00:14:50,207 Speaker 1: when you were growing up, it's like your memories of 300 00:14:50,247 --> 00:14:52,087 Speaker 1: growing up didn't include. 301 00:14:51,967 --> 00:14:56,007 Speaker 3: Yeah, so, like you had a sense that your parents 302 00:14:56,207 --> 00:15:00,087 Speaker 3: were lonely or isolated or their activities revolved around you. 303 00:15:00,967 --> 00:15:03,327 Speaker 3: Not only does that make you sad? To look back on. 304 00:15:03,447 --> 00:15:07,007 Speaker 3: But as an adult, a lot of people carry that 305 00:15:07,687 --> 00:15:11,887 Speaker 3: and feel almost a lot of pressure, especially with aging parents, 306 00:15:11,927 --> 00:15:14,247 Speaker 3: where they just go I've got to look after them. 307 00:15:14,647 --> 00:15:16,847 Speaker 3: The other data point was that when they looked at 308 00:15:16,927 --> 00:15:19,807 Speaker 3: parents and friendship, more often than not, it was the 309 00:15:19,847 --> 00:15:22,887 Speaker 3: mother who was a social architect, and the dad was 310 00:15:22,927 --> 00:15:25,127 Speaker 3: more introverted and kind of went along, but it was 311 00:15:25,167 --> 00:15:28,127 Speaker 3: the mum doing it. And I thought this was really relevant. 312 00:15:28,167 --> 00:15:32,287 Speaker 3: She said, divorce often functions as a pivot point. After 313 00:15:32,327 --> 00:15:37,087 Speaker 3: the divorce, one parent often becomes more isolated, so this 314 00:15:37,287 --> 00:15:39,807 Speaker 3: is very relevant to Angeline Jollie and I think the 315 00:15:39,807 --> 00:15:42,767 Speaker 3: most telling quote was the one you said about I've 316 00:15:42,767 --> 00:15:44,527 Speaker 3: had a few friends that were not there in our 317 00:15:44,567 --> 00:15:46,807 Speaker 3: moment of need and the divorced families. 318 00:15:46,887 --> 00:15:50,567 Speaker 2: I know George Clooney for starting Hollywood chose him. 319 00:15:50,887 --> 00:15:53,727 Speaker 1: Hollywood always chose him. They chose him. When he's split 320 00:15:53,807 --> 00:15:58,007 Speaker 1: with Jennifer, they chose him. When he's split with Angelina, 321 00:15:58,207 --> 00:16:01,607 Speaker 1: they choose him. Hollywood is a boys club, no matter 322 00:16:01,647 --> 00:16:03,887 Speaker 1: how you cut it and how it's true much you 323 00:16:03,927 --> 00:16:04,607 Speaker 1: think things have. 324 00:16:04,647 --> 00:16:07,887 Speaker 2: Changed, but I reckon in real life it's probably often 325 00:16:07,927 --> 00:16:11,367 Speaker 2: the bloke who becomes iceler yes, because the stereotype that 326 00:16:11,407 --> 00:16:14,127 Speaker 2: the woman is the social organizer is often true, not 327 00:16:14,167 --> 00:16:16,207 Speaker 2: necessarily that she gets custody of the friends, because that 328 00:16:16,247 --> 00:16:18,527 Speaker 2: depends very much on the circumstances of the split. But 329 00:16:19,087 --> 00:16:21,567 Speaker 2: some men have never learnt the skills of how to 330 00:16:22,247 --> 00:16:24,487 Speaker 2: build a social life and keep up with people and 331 00:16:24,567 --> 00:16:27,647 Speaker 2: keep friendships going and turn up for things. And that's 332 00:16:27,687 --> 00:16:31,007 Speaker 2: such an interesting question because my parents always had friends, 333 00:16:31,567 --> 00:16:33,967 Speaker 2: and they are very good at friendship. They've held all 334 00:16:34,007 --> 00:16:36,727 Speaker 2: their friends and I often feel a bit guilty because 335 00:16:36,807 --> 00:16:38,327 Speaker 2: you know, there are people in my life who were 336 00:16:38,327 --> 00:16:40,407 Speaker 2: once really good friends but I've kind of lost touch with. 337 00:16:40,927 --> 00:16:43,567 Speaker 2: But when I went back for my dad's eightieth they've 338 00:16:43,607 --> 00:16:46,567 Speaker 2: got friends there from UNI, which is sixty years ago, 339 00:16:46,767 --> 00:16:49,967 Speaker 2: and I'm deeply impressed. Which are good friend role models. 340 00:16:50,127 --> 00:16:52,527 Speaker 3: And Helen Peterson says that the real shift is that 341 00:16:52,647 --> 00:16:57,247 Speaker 3: now our weekends and our spare time revolves around our children, yes, 342 00:16:57,447 --> 00:17:01,287 Speaker 3: our children's activities. Whereas if you've got children, Yeah, memories 343 00:17:01,447 --> 00:17:03,887 Speaker 3: that you know gen X might have or I have 344 00:17:04,487 --> 00:17:07,567 Speaker 3: is that weekends were spent at my parents' friend's house. 345 00:17:07,927 --> 00:17:09,807 Speaker 3: I didn't know the kids. I was put in a 346 00:17:09,887 --> 00:17:12,327 Speaker 3: room with a movie on yeah, if there was a 347 00:17:12,367 --> 00:17:15,207 Speaker 3: swimming pool, I was just But there were. 348 00:17:15,087 --> 00:17:19,167 Speaker 1: A lot entrepre. You became friends with your parents' friends kids, 349 00:17:19,287 --> 00:17:21,607 Speaker 1: and I mean there was a term for it, family friends. 350 00:17:21,967 --> 00:17:24,687 Speaker 1: And there's a whole group of people, both the adults 351 00:17:24,727 --> 00:17:27,687 Speaker 1: and their kids who I grew up with, who I've 352 00:17:27,767 --> 00:17:29,807 Speaker 1: got a real sort of connection to you. I don't 353 00:17:29,847 --> 00:17:33,007 Speaker 1: see them more, speak to them, or stay in contact 354 00:17:33,007 --> 00:17:36,447 Speaker 1: with the kids necessarily anymore. But they were really strong 355 00:17:36,487 --> 00:17:39,767 Speaker 1: parts of your life. Because I didn't spend weekends with 356 00:17:39,847 --> 00:17:41,607 Speaker 1: my own friends, I spent them with the kids of 357 00:17:41,647 --> 00:17:44,207 Speaker 1: my parents' friends. But that wouldn't happen anymore. 358 00:17:44,207 --> 00:17:46,767 Speaker 3: Really, now we've got what she refers to an Helen 359 00:17:46,807 --> 00:17:48,647 Speaker 3: Peterson wrote about this a while ago. It's called the 360 00:17:48,687 --> 00:17:51,287 Speaker 3: friendship dip, and all the data says the thirties and 361 00:17:51,327 --> 00:17:55,047 Speaker 3: forties your lives is not just parenting. Even if you 362 00:17:55,087 --> 00:17:58,327 Speaker 3: don't have kids, your life gets really really busy, and 363 00:17:58,367 --> 00:18:01,167 Speaker 3: a lot of people exit their forties with not a 364 00:18:01,167 --> 00:18:05,287 Speaker 3: lot of friends. And then hopefully as you get older 365 00:18:05,327 --> 00:18:07,167 Speaker 3: there's a lot of reconnecting. I see this with people 366 00:18:07,167 --> 00:18:10,127 Speaker 3: who are, like, you know, retiring or their kids have 367 00:18:10,207 --> 00:18:12,607 Speaker 3: left the house or whatever. There's more time, and I 368 00:18:12,647 --> 00:18:15,927 Speaker 3: think they realize as well the importance of friendship. But 369 00:18:16,567 --> 00:18:18,967 Speaker 3: I thought with Jolly, she's really in the midst of 370 00:18:18,967 --> 00:18:19,807 Speaker 3: that friendship deal. 371 00:18:19,847 --> 00:18:22,407 Speaker 2: Although now I'm worried about the six kids because if 372 00:18:22,447 --> 00:18:24,967 Speaker 2: Anne Helen Peterson is right and that they're looking at 373 00:18:24,967 --> 00:18:27,727 Speaker 2: their m I'm going, why doesn't she have any friends? Yeah? Yeah, 374 00:18:27,767 --> 00:18:29,807 Speaker 2: now they'll be all ried burden. They've read about this. 375 00:18:30,087 --> 00:18:32,327 Speaker 3: If you want to hear about Brad Pitt and Angelina 376 00:18:32,407 --> 00:18:35,127 Speaker 3: Jolly on the red carpet at the Venice Film Festival 377 00:18:35,247 --> 00:18:38,567 Speaker 3: and everything that's happening there, listen to our entertainment podcast 378 00:18:38,727 --> 00:18:41,527 Speaker 3: The Spill. We have a link in our show notes, 379 00:18:43,847 --> 00:18:46,247 Speaker 3: Mother Loud out. 380 00:18:46,087 --> 00:18:48,287 Speaker 1: Louders, Do you want the government to ask you about 381 00:18:48,327 --> 00:18:52,567 Speaker 1: your sexuality? What about your gender identity or your genitals? 382 00:18:53,327 --> 00:18:56,087 Speaker 1: These were all census questions which were considered by the 383 00:18:56,167 --> 00:18:59,807 Speaker 1: Australian Bureau of Statistics for the twenty twenty six senses, 384 00:19:00,447 --> 00:19:05,047 Speaker 1: but they were initially rejected for inclusion by the Prime 385 00:19:05,087 --> 00:19:09,447 Speaker 1: Minister to avoid a divisive culture war, which is what 386 00:19:09,487 --> 00:19:15,087 Speaker 1: he said. Unfortunately this sparked a divisive culture war. Peter 387 00:19:15,127 --> 00:19:17,887 Speaker 1: Dutton agreed that the questions shouldn't be included because they 388 00:19:17,927 --> 00:19:21,647 Speaker 1: were too woke, and many members of the queer community 389 00:19:21,727 --> 00:19:24,967 Speaker 1: were upset because they said the fact the census in 390 00:19:25,047 --> 00:19:27,207 Speaker 1: twenty twenty one, which was the last time we had one, 391 00:19:27,807 --> 00:19:31,607 Speaker 1: didn't specifically ask about their sexuality or gender identity, or 392 00:19:31,687 --> 00:19:36,407 Speaker 1: trans or intersex identity and the makeup of their family. 393 00:19:36,687 --> 00:19:40,687 Speaker 1: That made them feel invisible. Then six labor MPs broke 394 00:19:40,767 --> 00:19:43,967 Speaker 1: ranks against the Prime Minister and they told Albo to 395 00:19:44,007 --> 00:19:47,327 Speaker 1: reverse the decision, and on Friday he did so. Now 396 00:19:47,487 --> 00:19:50,727 Speaker 1: one more question will be added on sexual preference, but 397 00:19:50,767 --> 00:19:54,127 Speaker 1: there won't be a question on trans and intersex people. 398 00:19:54,607 --> 00:19:55,447 Speaker 1: This is what he said. 399 00:19:55,727 --> 00:20:00,207 Speaker 5: We are consistent about having a common sense approach to 400 00:20:00,327 --> 00:20:04,567 Speaker 5: these issues. We want to make sure that everyone is valued, 401 00:20:05,327 --> 00:20:12,367 Speaker 5: regardless of their gender, their race, their faith, their sexual orientation. 402 00:20:12,767 --> 00:20:15,127 Speaker 1: Now I wanted to sort of know what to think 403 00:20:15,167 --> 00:20:17,447 Speaker 1: about this. I'm not a member of this community, so 404 00:20:17,647 --> 00:20:19,407 Speaker 1: it sort of doesn't really matter what I think, but 405 00:20:19,447 --> 00:20:21,367 Speaker 1: I wanted to understand the two sides. And there was 406 00:20:21,407 --> 00:20:25,447 Speaker 1: a fantastic column over the weekend by Jacqueline Mayley, who's 407 00:20:25,447 --> 00:20:28,687 Speaker 1: one of my favorite columnists, and she sort of outlined 408 00:20:28,927 --> 00:20:32,447 Speaker 1: that the arguments against it and let's go into this 409 00:20:32,527 --> 00:20:36,287 Speaker 1: assuming that everybody came from a well meaning place. She said. 410 00:20:36,567 --> 00:20:38,687 Speaker 1: The reasons that you might not want to have that 411 00:20:38,847 --> 00:20:43,087 Speaker 1: question there is that even though the census data is anonymized, 412 00:20:43,527 --> 00:20:46,207 Speaker 1: some Australians would object to the government inquiring into a 413 00:20:46,247 --> 00:20:49,047 Speaker 1: subject that they considered private. The way that sort of 414 00:20:49,087 --> 00:20:52,607 Speaker 1: income I think is pretty private. Marital status is a law. 415 00:20:53,127 --> 00:20:55,807 Speaker 1: The tax department has a record of your income. But 416 00:20:56,207 --> 00:20:58,607 Speaker 1: maybe you don't want the government asking who you sleep with. 417 00:20:58,687 --> 00:21:00,647 Speaker 2: I'm just trying to remember what they do ask at 418 00:21:00,647 --> 00:21:02,407 Speaker 2: the moment, right, So they do it every five years, 419 00:21:02,407 --> 00:21:04,407 Speaker 2: don't they And they ask you if you're single, married 420 00:21:04,407 --> 00:21:04,927 Speaker 2: to facto? 421 00:21:05,247 --> 00:21:08,967 Speaker 3: Yeah, they ask about religion. I think what they're thinking though, 422 00:21:09,127 --> 00:21:11,527 Speaker 3: is is that if you get the census in your household. 423 00:21:12,127 --> 00:21:14,087 Speaker 3: This was one of the arguments. Whether or not it's 424 00:21:14,127 --> 00:21:16,807 Speaker 3: a strong argument is to be decided. But do you 425 00:21:16,887 --> 00:21:20,207 Speaker 3: then look at each of your children depending on you know, 426 00:21:20,407 --> 00:21:23,527 Speaker 3: don't know the politics of your family, and say do 427 00:21:23,567 --> 00:21:26,687 Speaker 3: you identify as gay or straight or bisexual? 428 00:21:26,807 --> 00:21:30,687 Speaker 1: Right? Be you flatmate, yes, might be your partner who 429 00:21:30,727 --> 00:21:33,087 Speaker 1: is bisexual, but you've never talked about it. I mean 430 00:21:33,127 --> 00:21:36,247 Speaker 1: you don't know. And another reason against it is that 431 00:21:36,327 --> 00:21:39,407 Speaker 1: coming out on the census form could be particularly risky 432 00:21:39,447 --> 00:21:42,767 Speaker 1: for some people who are in conservative religious communities or 433 00:21:42,967 --> 00:21:47,167 Speaker 1: living in a non queer friendly household. And when it 434 00:21:47,207 --> 00:21:49,207 Speaker 1: comes to trans and intersex people, there are some who 435 00:21:49,247 --> 00:21:52,647 Speaker 1: don't want to disclose their anatomy on an Australian Bureau 436 00:21:52,727 --> 00:21:56,367 Speaker 1: of Statistics form. The other thing against it is that 437 00:21:56,447 --> 00:22:00,047 Speaker 1: every time there's a census, everybody applies to have a 438 00:22:00,127 --> 00:22:03,687 Speaker 1: question included about their particular area of interest or their 439 00:22:03,727 --> 00:22:07,807 Speaker 1: particular community, and every question that's in there is an 440 00:22:07,927 --> 00:22:11,407 Speaker 1: enormous cost. That's where the government has to decide based 441 00:22:11,407 --> 00:22:14,287 Speaker 1: on the recommendations by the Australian Bureau Statistics. Yes to 442 00:22:14,287 --> 00:22:16,967 Speaker 1: this question, no to that question. If we have this question, 443 00:22:17,047 --> 00:22:19,567 Speaker 1: we can't also afford to have that question. It's not 444 00:22:19,607 --> 00:22:22,287 Speaker 1: just an endless you can ask whatever you want, and 445 00:22:22,367 --> 00:22:25,847 Speaker 1: that's something I didn't realize now the arguments for including it. 446 00:22:26,327 --> 00:22:28,367 Speaker 1: I want to read what Jack Malee said. She said 447 00:22:28,887 --> 00:22:31,207 Speaker 1: the fact that Albo had said he doesn't want to 448 00:22:31,247 --> 00:22:35,807 Speaker 1: cause division, she said, to lay the blame for those conflicts, 449 00:22:36,087 --> 00:22:38,087 Speaker 1: which she agrees are real. I mean, we just had 450 00:22:38,087 --> 00:22:41,407 Speaker 1: to see what happened with the Olympics and the boxer 451 00:22:41,927 --> 00:22:46,727 Speaker 1: and these things can cause hostility and division, which can 452 00:22:46,767 --> 00:22:50,047 Speaker 1: be very harmful. She says, to imply that even talking 453 00:22:50,087 --> 00:22:55,007 Speaker 1: about those issues is creating social division is regressive, and 454 00:22:55,047 --> 00:22:58,447 Speaker 1: it's also not fair to put that responsibility on that community. 455 00:22:58,887 --> 00:23:01,927 Speaker 1: And she says, one person's woke agenda is another person's 456 00:23:01,967 --> 00:23:04,647 Speaker 1: idea of inclusion, and it's a debate that needs to 457 00:23:04,687 --> 00:23:08,247 Speaker 1: be had respectfully. And she basically says it's a government's 458 00:23:08,327 --> 00:23:11,727 Speaker 1: job to lead us through this division, not to say, oh, 459 00:23:11,727 --> 00:23:14,247 Speaker 1: there's division, we're not going to talk about it because 460 00:23:14,247 --> 00:23:17,407 Speaker 1: it'll make things worse. It's like, well, that's your job 461 00:23:17,527 --> 00:23:18,727 Speaker 1: is to lead the way. 462 00:23:18,807 --> 00:23:24,727 Speaker 3: Surely, I found the government's response to why the question 463 00:23:25,087 --> 00:23:29,647 Speaker 3: wasn't included to be incredibly unsatisfying. So and I thought 464 00:23:29,647 --> 00:23:32,007 Speaker 3: that this was a fairly good point that it had 465 00:23:32,207 --> 00:23:34,607 Speaker 3: sort of been promised that there would be a question 466 00:23:34,927 --> 00:23:37,287 Speaker 3: in there. So there was a commitment from the government 467 00:23:37,407 --> 00:23:42,407 Speaker 3: to include LGBTQ plus Australians in the consultation and planning 468 00:23:42,407 --> 00:23:45,527 Speaker 3: process for the twenty twenty six census, and to ensure 469 00:23:45,607 --> 00:23:49,727 Speaker 3: that the census gathers relevant data on these Australians, so 470 00:23:49,847 --> 00:23:54,447 Speaker 3: when they didn't do it, and then the community said, hey, 471 00:23:54,807 --> 00:23:57,327 Speaker 3: why didn't you do it? I was all is because 472 00:23:57,327 --> 00:24:00,407 Speaker 3: I went, oh, I'm sure there's a rational but it 473 00:24:00,447 --> 00:24:03,047 Speaker 3: was basically, we don't want to be divisive, we don't 474 00:24:03,047 --> 00:24:05,447 Speaker 3: want that to be around yeah, which I just thought, well, 475 00:24:05,447 --> 00:24:07,207 Speaker 3: that's not a very good answer. 476 00:24:07,687 --> 00:24:10,967 Speaker 1: People can get very distressed if they feel they're being 477 00:24:11,007 --> 00:24:13,247 Speaker 1: made to be invisible. You know, so much progress has 478 00:24:13,327 --> 00:24:17,847 Speaker 1: been made with same sex marriage and a much greater 479 00:24:17,927 --> 00:24:21,687 Speaker 1: social understanding of these issues. And I think that so 480 00:24:21,807 --> 00:24:26,607 Speaker 1: many people have people who are LGTBQI plus in their family. 481 00:24:27,367 --> 00:24:30,487 Speaker 1: But you can't just ask one blanket question. And I 482 00:24:30,527 --> 00:24:35,167 Speaker 1: think as the sort of the rainbow family letters gets longer, 483 00:24:35,727 --> 00:24:39,407 Speaker 1: it does become complex because there isn't necessarily a single 484 00:24:39,487 --> 00:24:44,607 Speaker 1: question that will be helpful to data analysts that mixes 485 00:24:44,727 --> 00:24:46,647 Speaker 1: ideas around sexuality and gender. 486 00:24:46,807 --> 00:24:49,487 Speaker 3: So one argument I've read that I thought was interesting 487 00:24:49,607 --> 00:24:51,967 Speaker 3: was if there is a question about gender identity, say 488 00:24:52,287 --> 00:24:55,847 Speaker 3: which for members of the community. I mean, some say 489 00:24:55,847 --> 00:24:57,687 Speaker 3: it's important, others say they don't want to be asked. 490 00:24:57,727 --> 00:25:00,287 Speaker 3: We've got to acknowledge that there's diversity within the community. 491 00:25:00,807 --> 00:25:03,527 Speaker 3: There are a large portion of Australians that will not 492 00:25:03,647 --> 00:25:06,327 Speaker 3: actually understand the question. And they said that if there 493 00:25:06,367 --> 00:25:08,967 Speaker 3: was something about sex and gender, then what they were 494 00:25:08,967 --> 00:25:11,887 Speaker 3: having to do on the form was explain how to 495 00:25:11,927 --> 00:25:15,887 Speaker 3: distinguish it, because I'm thinking about my grandfather going that 496 00:25:15,927 --> 00:25:18,727 Speaker 3: he wouldn't necessarily understand what that means, and. 497 00:25:18,687 --> 00:25:21,167 Speaker 1: Even in the explanations that can be quite controversial. 498 00:25:21,247 --> 00:25:23,047 Speaker 3: Yes, and so this was, but does he need to? 499 00:25:23,367 --> 00:25:26,087 Speaker 2: This is my question about this is that surely a 500 00:25:26,127 --> 00:25:27,967 Speaker 2: lot of what this all comes down to is how 501 00:25:28,007 --> 00:25:31,127 Speaker 2: important the census is. If the census is really the 502 00:25:31,127 --> 00:25:35,167 Speaker 2: one way that we're all counted and our needs are considered, 503 00:25:35,327 --> 00:25:37,367 Speaker 2: and it's the way that we decide how we divvy 504 00:25:37,447 --> 00:25:39,927 Speaker 2: up government money, and how many people in the population 505 00:25:40,007 --> 00:25:42,567 Speaker 2: this is relevant to and that's not relevant to. If 506 00:25:42,687 --> 00:25:45,487 Speaker 2: it is that important, then of course it needs to 507 00:25:45,527 --> 00:25:47,807 Speaker 2: find these things out, and if they're not relevant to you, 508 00:25:47,807 --> 00:25:50,207 Speaker 2: you just tick your box, m and you move on. Yes, 509 00:25:50,247 --> 00:25:52,647 Speaker 2: you know what I mean, Like I don't. The argument 510 00:25:52,727 --> 00:25:55,087 Speaker 2: the other thing is is it's not that important, which is, 511 00:25:55,127 --> 00:25:57,247 Speaker 2: you know, there are other ways of working out how 512 00:25:57,247 --> 00:26:01,487 Speaker 2: many people in the population don't identify as one of 513 00:26:01,527 --> 00:26:04,727 Speaker 2: two binary genders, And then that's another argument. But if 514 00:26:04,727 --> 00:26:06,727 Speaker 2: we're saying that the census is the way to do it. 515 00:26:06,647 --> 00:26:08,927 Speaker 3: Surely it's got to do it. So the argument I 516 00:26:09,047 --> 00:26:11,847 Speaker 3: read about that is because I kept thinking, move on 517 00:26:11,887 --> 00:26:13,527 Speaker 3: to the next question. If it doesn't apply to you, 518 00:26:13,887 --> 00:26:16,727 Speaker 3: not the way the census works. So they said, what 519 00:26:16,807 --> 00:26:20,167 Speaker 3: we don't want is dodgy data. We don't want data 520 00:26:20,167 --> 00:26:22,807 Speaker 3: that doesn't reflect Australians because then we've spent an enormous 521 00:26:22,807 --> 00:26:25,927 Speaker 3: amount of money framing a question, asking people that question, 522 00:26:26,007 --> 00:26:29,247 Speaker 3: and then getting the research analyzed, where the data actually 523 00:26:29,247 --> 00:26:33,007 Speaker 3: isn't reflective of Australians because you felt you couldn't answer 524 00:26:33,007 --> 00:26:36,047 Speaker 3: honestly or you didn't understand the question. 525 00:26:36,727 --> 00:26:38,727 Speaker 2: There be lots of things in the census that people 526 00:26:38,767 --> 00:26:42,087 Speaker 2: aren't answering honestly. Yea, I reckon, I agree, And of 527 00:26:42,127 --> 00:26:44,327 Speaker 2: course they would. And they're asking me what religion I 528 00:26:44,367 --> 00:26:46,527 Speaker 2: am right, And if I don't want to answer that, 529 00:26:46,607 --> 00:26:48,687 Speaker 2: I don't have to answer that. And if they're asking 530 00:26:48,727 --> 00:26:51,567 Speaker 2: me exactly what I earn, people will lie about that. 531 00:26:51,807 --> 00:26:54,327 Speaker 2: So the first thing when I kept seeing this and 532 00:26:54,367 --> 00:26:57,447 Speaker 2: I kept hearing visibility, and I thought, I don't think 533 00:26:57,527 --> 00:27:01,287 Speaker 2: the census is about visibility. It's not about count every 534 00:27:01,847 --> 00:27:04,207 Speaker 2: group or whatever. But then I actually listened to some 535 00:27:04,287 --> 00:27:08,887 Speaker 2: advocates and I had my mind completely changed. What they 536 00:27:08,967 --> 00:27:12,127 Speaker 2: said is that, for example, why do they ask about religion. 537 00:27:12,127 --> 00:27:15,007 Speaker 2: Everyone says that they ask about religion because they need 538 00:27:15,047 --> 00:27:19,327 Speaker 2: to know about religious adherents in each sort of state 539 00:27:19,407 --> 00:27:21,727 Speaker 2: and suburb, so that they know in this suburb there 540 00:27:21,807 --> 00:27:24,487 Speaker 2: is this percentage of Muslims and they require a mosque. 541 00:27:24,807 --> 00:27:25,047 Speaker 1: Right. 542 00:27:25,247 --> 00:27:26,567 Speaker 3: It's a lot to do with policy, and it's a 543 00:27:26,607 --> 00:27:27,767 Speaker 3: lot to do with funding. 544 00:27:27,527 --> 00:27:30,447 Speaker 1: And understanding the changing makeup of our society, which means 545 00:27:30,447 --> 00:27:35,247 Speaker 1: that sexuality and gender and understanding how that's changing is 546 00:27:35,367 --> 00:27:38,207 Speaker 1: really important. These are the conversations that people are having 547 00:27:38,247 --> 00:27:41,327 Speaker 1: around dinner tables and at barbecues because it's embedded in 548 00:27:41,407 --> 00:27:42,127 Speaker 1: all of our lives. 549 00:27:42,127 --> 00:27:46,647 Speaker 3: But it's actually really important economic policy. And that's because 550 00:27:47,087 --> 00:27:50,207 Speaker 3: if we do the census and discover that there is 551 00:27:50,247 --> 00:27:55,287 Speaker 3: a large LGBTQI plus community in a region of the 552 00:27:55,327 --> 00:27:58,207 Speaker 3: Northern Territory and we have absolutely no services for them, 553 00:27:58,647 --> 00:28:02,287 Speaker 3: no mental health services. When we know that the mental 554 00:28:02,287 --> 00:28:05,687 Speaker 3: health outcomes for people in that community are a lot worse, 555 00:28:06,327 --> 00:28:10,047 Speaker 3: then they can't be serviced. So I heard really an 556 00:28:10,087 --> 00:28:14,167 Speaker 3: advocate saying, we're working blindfolded at the moment, we've got 557 00:28:14,567 --> 00:28:17,247 Speaker 3: public policy, and we've got these budgets that we're throwing 558 00:28:17,367 --> 00:28:19,167 Speaker 3: here and here when we don't know. 559 00:28:21,007 --> 00:28:23,487 Speaker 2: To your point about the government's answer of why they 560 00:28:23,487 --> 00:28:27,007 Speaker 2: weren't going to ask being unsatisfying, that's why, right, because 561 00:28:27,047 --> 00:28:29,247 Speaker 2: if there are other ways of measuring those things, then 562 00:28:29,327 --> 00:28:31,487 Speaker 2: tell us that. Do you know what I mean? If 563 00:28:31,487 --> 00:28:35,607 Speaker 2: there's other ways that are credible and deeply informed about 564 00:28:35,647 --> 00:28:38,607 Speaker 2: working out what percentage of population we need to invest in, 565 00:28:38,727 --> 00:28:40,567 Speaker 2: then tell us what they are. But don't just say 566 00:28:40,607 --> 00:28:42,727 Speaker 2: it's too hard to have the conversation, because I don't 567 00:28:42,727 --> 00:28:44,167 Speaker 2: think that's what governments get to do. 568 00:28:44,527 --> 00:28:46,687 Speaker 3: I think it actually speaks to a bigger question that 569 00:28:46,967 --> 00:28:50,887 Speaker 3: is generational to an extent, which goes beyond the census, 570 00:28:51,047 --> 00:28:53,207 Speaker 3: which is whether you think sexuality is private or not. 571 00:28:54,007 --> 00:28:56,687 Speaker 3: And there are some people who are like, don't ask 572 00:28:56,727 --> 00:28:57,767 Speaker 3: me about my sexuality. 573 00:28:58,327 --> 00:29:00,367 Speaker 2: The reality there are some people who hate filling out 574 00:29:00,367 --> 00:29:01,367 Speaker 2: the census at all. 575 00:29:01,527 --> 00:29:02,887 Speaker 3: Yeah, this reason exactly. 576 00:29:02,927 --> 00:29:04,807 Speaker 1: You're a very secretive whole I feel like you would be. 577 00:29:05,327 --> 00:29:06,847 Speaker 1: Don't ask me tonight. 578 00:29:07,127 --> 00:29:12,487 Speaker 2: Move on one unlimited out loud access. We drop episodes 579 00:29:12,527 --> 00:29:17,047 Speaker 2: every Tuesday and Thursday, exclusively for Momma Mere subscribers. Follow 580 00:29:17,087 --> 00:29:18,607 Speaker 2: the link at the show notes to get us in 581 00:29:18,647 --> 00:29:21,807 Speaker 2: your ears five days a week, and a huge thank 582 00:29:21,847 --> 00:29:24,007 Speaker 2: you to all our current subscribers. 583 00:29:29,407 --> 00:29:33,087 Speaker 3: Is the me too moment over? Are we experiencing post 584 00:29:33,167 --> 00:29:36,327 Speaker 3: me to creep? And what do those questions have to 585 00:29:36,367 --> 00:29:40,887 Speaker 3: do with a new very sexy calendar. Guardian columnist Barbara 586 00:29:40,887 --> 00:29:44,687 Speaker 3: Ellen writes, tasteful nudity is back in business. It's as 587 00:29:44,727 --> 00:29:47,927 Speaker 3: if the last seven years had never happened. If you've 588 00:29:47,927 --> 00:29:51,127 Speaker 3: never heard of the Pirelli calendar, neither until today. But 589 00:29:51,247 --> 00:29:53,727 Speaker 3: basically it's an annual calendar. I'd never heard of it, 590 00:29:54,527 --> 00:29:56,567 Speaker 3: as calendars tend to be. They tend to be annual. 591 00:29:57,327 --> 00:30:01,527 Speaker 3: Published by the tire manufacturing company Pirelli for the last 592 00:30:01,647 --> 00:30:04,447 Speaker 3: sixty years, but for the last seven of those, the 593 00:30:04,487 --> 00:30:09,447 Speaker 3: Pirelli Calendar has not been your classic nudy, sexy male day. 594 00:30:09,447 --> 00:30:13,567 Speaker 3: As calendar subjects have been more clothed, they've embraced more 595 00:30:13,607 --> 00:30:16,647 Speaker 3: diversity in age. In twenty eighteen they only featured women 596 00:30:16,687 --> 00:30:21,447 Speaker 3: of color, but this year, photographer Ethan James Green said, 597 00:30:22,207 --> 00:30:24,607 Speaker 3: me Too really forced everyone to take a pause, which 598 00:30:24,647 --> 00:30:27,207 Speaker 3: is really good. My initial thoughts when I was approached 599 00:30:27,247 --> 00:30:30,007 Speaker 3: to shoot the calendar were if I'm gonna do Pirelli, 600 00:30:30,127 --> 00:30:32,287 Speaker 3: I want to do Pirelli. I wanted to go back 601 00:30:32,327 --> 00:30:36,207 Speaker 3: to the sexy classic. Apparently there's been a resurgence in 602 00:30:36,287 --> 00:30:39,727 Speaker 3: sexy films and TV shows. Victoria's Secret brought back their 603 00:30:39,887 --> 00:30:43,767 Speaker 3: signature wings, and some male actors are pushing back on 604 00:30:43,767 --> 00:30:48,207 Speaker 3: on set intimacy coordinators. Maya, are we losing the gains 605 00:30:48,247 --> 00:30:49,287 Speaker 3: of the me too movement? 606 00:30:49,807 --> 00:30:50,727 Speaker 2: I don't know if. 607 00:30:50,607 --> 00:30:54,487 Speaker 1: This is necessarily the best example of that. I think 608 00:30:54,527 --> 00:30:58,647 Speaker 1: that these things go in cycles and pendulum swing, and 609 00:30:58,727 --> 00:31:03,007 Speaker 1: I think that there was a lot of understandable correction 610 00:31:03,487 --> 00:31:07,967 Speaker 1: and very necessary correction, because let's be clear about what 611 00:31:08,087 --> 00:31:11,767 Speaker 1: me Too was. It wasn't about oh, eye rollie, you 612 00:31:11,807 --> 00:31:15,567 Speaker 1: can't have push up bras or sexy calendars anymore. It 613 00:31:15,687 --> 00:31:19,767 Speaker 1: was actually supposed to be a live mandate telling men 614 00:31:19,967 --> 00:31:23,287 Speaker 1: to stop sexually abusing, harassing, and coercing women in the workplace, 615 00:31:23,847 --> 00:31:26,007 Speaker 1: whether it was a film and TV set, or in 616 00:31:26,047 --> 00:31:28,167 Speaker 1: an office or in a hotel room with a jacuzzi, 617 00:31:28,807 --> 00:31:32,167 Speaker 1: or wherever it was at the photocopia, in a restaurant. 618 00:31:32,327 --> 00:31:35,807 Speaker 1: And I think that that's really important. But the problem 619 00:31:35,847 --> 00:31:39,087 Speaker 1: with the Pirelli calendar, and it's kind of symbolic in 620 00:31:39,127 --> 00:31:42,487 Speaker 1: the same way that the market just corrected with Victoria's 621 00:31:42,567 --> 00:31:47,167 Speaker 1: secret that kind of girl's prancing down a runway, and 622 00:31:47,207 --> 00:31:50,127 Speaker 1: we learned later that there was a lot of terrible 623 00:31:50,167 --> 00:31:52,047 Speaker 1: things that went on behind the scenes. I was talking 624 00:31:52,047 --> 00:31:55,287 Speaker 1: to a person on Friday night, a woman who was 625 00:31:55,327 --> 00:31:58,327 Speaker 1: a model at this time in the early two thousands, 626 00:31:58,447 --> 00:32:02,727 Speaker 1: about what Victoria's secret castings were like. She said, it 627 00:32:02,807 --> 00:32:06,047 Speaker 1: was shocking what went on, like the way that the 628 00:32:06,207 --> 00:32:10,287 Speaker 1: models were demeaned, the sleaziness, the creepiness of it all. 629 00:32:11,247 --> 00:32:14,167 Speaker 1: And I think it's great that hopefully that doesn't happen 630 00:32:14,167 --> 00:32:16,927 Speaker 1: anymore in terms of what imagery is put out there. 631 00:32:18,167 --> 00:32:22,847 Speaker 1: What's interesting is that social media has allowed women to 632 00:32:22,887 --> 00:32:25,287 Speaker 1: sexualize themselves. And Holly and I have arguments about this 633 00:32:25,367 --> 00:32:28,007 Speaker 1: all the time. Many people will say it's a good thing. 634 00:32:28,047 --> 00:32:31,407 Speaker 1: I don't think it's a bad thing. I feel frustrated 635 00:32:31,727 --> 00:32:35,807 Speaker 1: when it feels sometimes like women have taken on the 636 00:32:36,007 --> 00:32:42,047 Speaker 1: job of maintaining oppressive beauty standards to get likes, get deals, 637 00:32:42,127 --> 00:32:43,887 Speaker 1: get better roles, get more attention. 638 00:32:44,767 --> 00:32:48,767 Speaker 6: I've always done that, is that, yes, and sorry, I 639 00:32:48,767 --> 00:32:51,327 Speaker 6: think it's new that well, now women can do it 640 00:32:51,367 --> 00:32:54,527 Speaker 6: on their own social platforms, which is clearly an improvement 641 00:32:54,647 --> 00:32:57,207 Speaker 6: on men just doing it. 642 00:32:57,527 --> 00:33:00,847 Speaker 1: But gosh, it would be nice if women could do 643 00:33:00,967 --> 00:33:04,167 Speaker 1: some other things like j Low over the weekend release 644 00:33:04,247 --> 00:33:08,567 Speaker 1: her first post divorce playbook post and it was a playbook. 645 00:33:08,607 --> 00:33:10,487 Speaker 1: There was an INSPI quote and then the shot of 646 00:33:10,527 --> 00:33:13,127 Speaker 1: her looking directly at camera, very tricky to set up 647 00:33:13,127 --> 00:33:15,367 Speaker 1: with a mirror behind her. In the background you can 648 00:33:15,407 --> 00:33:18,487 Speaker 1: see her ass reflected, and. 649 00:33:18,567 --> 00:33:21,007 Speaker 2: It's like, defend Jaylo for one second, because you just 650 00:33:21,047 --> 00:33:23,527 Speaker 2: said it would be nice if she's super thirsty. There 651 00:33:23,527 --> 00:33:26,167 Speaker 2: were like twelve pictures in that carousel and only one 652 00:33:26,167 --> 00:33:28,727 Speaker 2: of her shelter bottom, so she was doing eleven other things, 653 00:33:28,807 --> 00:33:30,287 Speaker 2: but Mia, I only choose to see one. 654 00:33:30,367 --> 00:33:32,127 Speaker 3: It was the ultimate really look, but that's. 655 00:33:31,967 --> 00:33:34,047 Speaker 1: Mandatory, right, And it's like, it's the other ones are 656 00:33:34,087 --> 00:33:35,887 Speaker 1: there to justify the one of her ass, And I 657 00:33:36,367 --> 00:33:39,687 Speaker 1: blame j Lo because that's still how we value women, 658 00:33:39,727 --> 00:33:41,607 Speaker 1: by what there are is and their faces. 659 00:33:41,127 --> 00:33:43,407 Speaker 3: A mayor, I want you to save that book market, 660 00:33:43,487 --> 00:33:45,327 Speaker 3: so anyway out of a relationship. 661 00:33:45,367 --> 00:33:48,847 Speaker 1: In the twenty twenty five calendar, there are men they've 662 00:33:48,847 --> 00:33:52,887 Speaker 1: had people fully clothed before and the photography himself. That 663 00:33:52,967 --> 00:33:54,967 Speaker 1: quote was a little bit unfair in that column. I 664 00:33:54,967 --> 00:33:56,807 Speaker 1: went back and looked what he originally said, because she 665 00:33:56,847 --> 00:33:58,287 Speaker 1: made it seem like it's like, oh, we had a 666 00:33:58,287 --> 00:34:00,727 Speaker 1: little pause for me too, and now we're back to 667 00:34:00,767 --> 00:34:04,047 Speaker 1: being splitdedive of women. It's not what he said. He said, 668 00:34:04,087 --> 00:34:06,207 Speaker 1: I think you know me too really forced everyone to pause, 669 00:34:06,207 --> 00:34:07,687 Speaker 1: which is really good. And I think a lot of 670 00:34:07,687 --> 00:34:10,567 Speaker 1: what sexy has become is like what we started seeing 671 00:34:10,607 --> 00:34:14,247 Speaker 1: on people's social media, usually through selfies, so people have 672 00:34:14,287 --> 00:34:16,327 Speaker 1: full control of what they're putting out there and showing 673 00:34:16,327 --> 00:34:18,807 Speaker 1: how skin is captured and not doing anything that they're 674 00:34:18,847 --> 00:34:21,287 Speaker 1: not comfortable with. And then he says his work is 675 00:34:21,327 --> 00:34:24,487 Speaker 1: about being collaborative with this subject, and of course women 676 00:34:24,527 --> 00:34:27,807 Speaker 1: want to get their gear off because that's how you 677 00:34:27,847 --> 00:34:30,007 Speaker 1: get power and status in these clicy The problem with 678 00:34:30,007 --> 00:34:32,247 Speaker 1: a Parrelli calendar is that it was given to mechanics 679 00:34:32,807 --> 00:34:35,887 Speaker 1: and it was to be in workplaces. Actually that was 680 00:34:35,927 --> 00:34:36,367 Speaker 1: the problem. 681 00:34:36,407 --> 00:34:38,687 Speaker 2: The thing is about the Perrelli calendar, as it's always 682 00:34:38,727 --> 00:34:42,007 Speaker 2: been really artie. There is generally, for want of a 683 00:34:42,087 --> 00:34:46,927 Speaker 2: less vulgar term, there's a wank calendar for everybody, right, 684 00:34:46,967 --> 00:34:48,887 Speaker 2: So the kind that you would see in a general 685 00:34:48,927 --> 00:34:51,687 Speaker 2: mechanics shop, you know, in a suburb, is not the 686 00:34:51,687 --> 00:34:55,527 Speaker 2: Parrelli calendar. It's always been use touchy, black and white, stunning. 687 00:34:55,607 --> 00:34:57,927 Speaker 2: Even when it was nudy, it was always that they've 688 00:34:57,927 --> 00:35:01,927 Speaker 2: made it very specifically to raise their status. So it's 689 00:35:02,207 --> 00:35:06,047 Speaker 2: nude women but posh, just like when I was young. 690 00:35:06,447 --> 00:35:09,047 Speaker 2: So we're talking about tires, so it works. Could go 691 00:35:09,047 --> 00:35:11,087 Speaker 2: to a man's house and he might have a loaded 692 00:35:11,127 --> 00:35:13,127 Speaker 2: magazine poster on his wall, and he could pretend it 693 00:35:13,167 --> 00:35:16,087 Speaker 2: was ironic, but really it was still just a wank picture, right, 694 00:35:16,447 --> 00:35:19,687 Speaker 2: So these were the posh, posey wank pictures. They weren't 695 00:35:19,727 --> 00:35:21,887 Speaker 2: really on mechanics walls because they've never sold them. They 696 00:35:21,887 --> 00:35:23,927 Speaker 2: were always only given out to very few people. But 697 00:35:24,447 --> 00:35:29,327 Speaker 2: they've always been this much intensely pretentious soft porn as 698 00:35:29,327 --> 00:35:33,167 Speaker 2: opposed to just your box standard soft porn. Me has 699 00:35:33,167 --> 00:35:35,247 Speaker 2: already made this point, which is the obvious one, that 700 00:35:35,367 --> 00:35:37,967 Speaker 2: Me Too wasn't about put your clothes back on, ladies. 701 00:35:38,607 --> 00:35:41,407 Speaker 2: Me Too was about if women are going to do 702 00:35:41,487 --> 00:35:43,367 Speaker 2: whatever they want to do with their bodies, then they 703 00:35:43,367 --> 00:35:45,887 Speaker 2: shouldn't be harassed while they're doing it, and wouldn't it 704 00:35:45,927 --> 00:35:47,607 Speaker 2: be nice if they had some choice in the matter. 705 00:35:47,687 --> 00:35:52,567 Speaker 2: And so it's not the nudity or otherwise itself that's 706 00:35:52,607 --> 00:35:55,167 Speaker 2: the problem. It's the atmosphere in which it's created. 707 00:35:55,287 --> 00:35:58,327 Speaker 3: Right, Yes, and Maya, I know what you're saying about 708 00:35:58,447 --> 00:36:00,647 Speaker 3: that quite being taken out of context. But my question 709 00:36:00,807 --> 00:36:03,767 Speaker 3: is why he brought up me too. Me too has 710 00:36:03,767 --> 00:36:06,567 Speaker 3: nothing to do with anything like it feels irrelevant to. 711 00:36:06,607 --> 00:36:09,767 Speaker 1: I think he was asked. You know, it's become contrayal 712 00:36:10,007 --> 00:36:13,367 Speaker 1: the idea of photographing women with their clothes off. It's 713 00:36:13,407 --> 00:36:16,007 Speaker 1: why Playboy has closed. 714 00:36:16,167 --> 00:36:19,807 Speaker 3: It's why it's become controversial because when they looked back, 715 00:36:19,887 --> 00:36:21,847 Speaker 3: they realized that the conditions in which the women were 716 00:36:21,887 --> 00:36:24,647 Speaker 3: being treated, as you said, were not right, and so 717 00:36:24,687 --> 00:36:27,167 Speaker 3: we started looking at it through a different lens. But 718 00:36:27,247 --> 00:36:31,327 Speaker 3: it's also worth looking at the timeline. Because he brought 719 00:36:31,407 --> 00:36:35,727 Speaker 3: up me Too. I looked at when this shift happened, 720 00:36:35,767 --> 00:36:37,687 Speaker 3: and it actually happened in twenty sixteen, which is a 721 00:36:37,767 --> 00:36:40,367 Speaker 3: year before Me Too. It wasn't me Too that changed 722 00:36:40,367 --> 00:36:42,887 Speaker 3: the Pirelli calendar. It was a cultural shift that was 723 00:36:42,927 --> 00:36:47,287 Speaker 3: already happening, because in twenty sixteen, Annie Leibovitz celebrated women 724 00:36:47,327 --> 00:36:49,887 Speaker 3: for their accomplishments. I remember this. It was the iconic 725 00:36:49,927 --> 00:36:52,367 Speaker 3: Amy Schumer. She was there with a coffee cup and 726 00:36:52,407 --> 00:36:54,887 Speaker 3: it was a bit funny, a bit ironic. It wasn't 727 00:36:54,927 --> 00:36:56,047 Speaker 3: male gaizy. 728 00:36:56,047 --> 00:36:58,367 Speaker 2: And there was Serena Williams where it really showed all 729 00:36:58,407 --> 00:37:03,607 Speaker 2: her muscles, like really really strong photography, and a lot 730 00:37:03,607 --> 00:37:05,407 Speaker 2: of people were like, well, what's the point of my 731 00:37:05,727 --> 00:37:08,447 Speaker 2: ARTI wanky calendar if the women are all showing me 732 00:37:08,447 --> 00:37:10,127 Speaker 2: their accomplishment instead. 733 00:37:10,927 --> 00:37:16,087 Speaker 1: Well, in twenty seventeen and unretouched Dame Helen Mirren was 734 00:37:16,167 --> 00:37:19,087 Speaker 1: Miss December, honestly, and she was wrapped in a blanket. 735 00:37:19,127 --> 00:37:23,447 Speaker 1: And then an unretouched Uma Thurman was Miss August and 736 00:37:23,527 --> 00:37:26,247 Speaker 1: she was in Apollo neck. And then in twenty eighteen 737 00:37:26,687 --> 00:37:29,327 Speaker 1: the calendar featured an all black group of models, activists 738 00:37:29,327 --> 00:37:32,767 Speaker 1: and actors. And so this idea of oh, we can 739 00:37:32,887 --> 00:37:36,247 Speaker 1: get our boobs out again, it does feel a little 740 00:37:37,007 --> 00:37:40,007 Speaker 1: not even so much regressive, but just like it's almost tweet, 741 00:37:40,047 --> 00:37:42,127 Speaker 1: this idea that this calendar could be in any way 742 00:37:42,167 --> 00:37:44,367 Speaker 1: shocking when you just flick through your phone and that's 743 00:37:44,367 --> 00:37:45,327 Speaker 1: what everyone looks like. 744 00:37:45,527 --> 00:37:49,407 Speaker 3: Yeah, but I think that the conditions are very different, right, 745 00:37:49,567 --> 00:37:52,247 Speaker 3: Like if I see even I'm thinking about em Rata 746 00:37:52,287 --> 00:37:54,207 Speaker 3: and what she said about the conditions of some of 747 00:37:54,247 --> 00:37:56,847 Speaker 3: the photo shoots where she had her clothes off and 748 00:37:57,047 --> 00:38:00,207 Speaker 3: how men owned her image. That makes me look at 749 00:38:00,247 --> 00:38:03,207 Speaker 3: the photos differently. If Emrada shares a selfie, I don't 750 00:38:03,207 --> 00:38:06,327 Speaker 3: feel that because no one else is profiting off. 751 00:38:06,167 --> 00:38:09,967 Speaker 2: She was the means of production. Basically to your communist exactly, 752 00:38:10,047 --> 00:38:13,327 Speaker 2: It's like if women are owning it, controlling it, profiting 753 00:38:13,407 --> 00:38:15,647 Speaker 2: from it, it's completely different that if it's just the 754 00:38:15,687 --> 00:38:16,487 Speaker 2: guys at Perelli. 755 00:38:17,447 --> 00:38:20,767 Speaker 1: Before we wrap up the show today, Jesse, we've got 756 00:38:20,807 --> 00:38:23,887 Speaker 1: a bit of a surprise for you, and we've got 757 00:38:23,887 --> 00:38:25,967 Speaker 1: a bit of a guest to come in and follow 758 00:38:26,007 --> 00:38:29,167 Speaker 1: up on a segment that we did last week, where 759 00:38:29,247 --> 00:38:30,607 Speaker 1: is our guests. 760 00:38:31,967 --> 00:38:33,607 Speaker 2: You see last. 761 00:38:33,367 --> 00:38:36,927 Speaker 1: Week on the show, you mentioned the idea of the 762 00:38:37,167 --> 00:38:41,887 Speaker 1: fair Play cards and how you were feeling really resentful 763 00:38:41,967 --> 00:38:44,527 Speaker 1: of how much mental load you've taken on since Luna 764 00:38:44,647 --> 00:38:49,127 Speaker 1: was born, and you ordered these cards, which basically listed 765 00:38:49,167 --> 00:38:53,647 Speaker 1: all the hundred or so chores in the household, and 766 00:38:53,927 --> 00:38:55,687 Speaker 1: you were really happy that you were going to make 767 00:38:55,727 --> 00:38:59,047 Speaker 1: the invisible visible, and it was not fair you were 768 00:38:59,047 --> 00:39:01,647 Speaker 1: tired of grun all the meals. It had swung right 769 00:39:01,687 --> 00:39:04,567 Speaker 1: out of balance since Luna was born. So I'm interested 770 00:39:04,607 --> 00:39:07,047 Speaker 1: to know when you guys sat down with the cards, 771 00:39:07,487 --> 00:39:09,527 Speaker 1: how to go? And since I feel like you been 772 00:39:09,527 --> 00:39:11,967 Speaker 1: an unreliable witness, do you guys like the. 773 00:39:11,887 --> 00:39:13,687 Speaker 4: Look on my face? What's this face? 774 00:39:14,007 --> 00:39:14,207 Speaker 5: Well? 775 00:39:14,247 --> 00:39:17,727 Speaker 3: I keep saying to you, Luca Levine, there is no winners. 776 00:39:17,767 --> 00:39:21,807 Speaker 3: This wasn't about winning and losing. It was about something else, 777 00:39:22,007 --> 00:39:23,927 Speaker 3: all right. So basically, there are a hundred cards and 778 00:39:23,927 --> 00:39:25,927 Speaker 3: then you choose the ones that are relevant to you 779 00:39:26,047 --> 00:39:27,967 Speaker 3: and your family. And so I had gone through and 780 00:39:28,007 --> 00:39:30,887 Speaker 3: chosen them, and we sat there and I was like, 781 00:39:31,567 --> 00:39:33,127 Speaker 3: this isn't about winning or losing, but it's going to 782 00:39:33,127 --> 00:39:36,327 Speaker 3: be embarrassing when you lose. And so I got every. 783 00:39:36,447 --> 00:39:38,087 Speaker 4: Let's just we'll pull up there. Just briefly. 784 00:39:38,167 --> 00:39:39,887 Speaker 7: It was a period where we were on Friday afternon 785 00:39:39,887 --> 00:39:42,327 Speaker 7: we're taking the dog to the park. Yeah, and you 786 00:39:42,967 --> 00:39:45,167 Speaker 7: it wasn't just like a let's do the cards. I 787 00:39:45,207 --> 00:39:47,607 Speaker 7: think that you would trying to. We maybe had like 788 00:39:47,647 --> 00:39:50,287 Speaker 7: an hour or two hour long conversation where you were. 789 00:39:50,207 --> 00:39:52,287 Speaker 3: Talking about this twenty minute how. 790 00:39:52,927 --> 00:39:58,407 Speaker 7: You felt like you were carrying a lot of unvisible load, unvisible, unvisible. 791 00:39:58,447 --> 00:40:01,047 Speaker 3: We didn't have a good night sleep, did we invisible load? Yes, 792 00:40:01,127 --> 00:40:03,807 Speaker 3: that was happening, Lucra. And that's part of communicating in 793 00:40:03,847 --> 00:40:04,527 Speaker 3: a marriage. 794 00:40:04,607 --> 00:40:06,327 Speaker 7: What it seemed like you were sort of doing is 795 00:40:06,367 --> 00:40:09,567 Speaker 7: it seems like you were steering into the card is 796 00:40:09,647 --> 00:40:13,367 Speaker 7: like I know where this is going personally, and it 797 00:40:13,407 --> 00:40:15,087 Speaker 7: was sort of like you were starting to take the 798 00:40:15,167 --> 00:40:16,647 Speaker 7: run up on like your victory lap. 799 00:40:16,887 --> 00:40:20,007 Speaker 3: Yeah. What happened is that the cards were deeply flawed. 800 00:40:20,087 --> 00:40:23,647 Speaker 3: The cards didn't fully represent my contribution to the household. 801 00:40:23,727 --> 00:40:25,007 Speaker 2: They were literally stacked to gage. 802 00:40:25,087 --> 00:40:27,487 Speaker 3: They were And I have some feedback about the cards. 803 00:40:27,527 --> 00:40:29,607 Speaker 1: So what happens. There's one hundred and you just choose 804 00:40:29,647 --> 00:40:31,367 Speaker 1: and put in front of you the ones that of 805 00:40:31,407 --> 00:40:32,927 Speaker 1: all the tasks that you do. 806 00:40:33,007 --> 00:40:35,447 Speaker 3: Yes, exactly. So for example, I think the first card 807 00:40:35,487 --> 00:40:38,767 Speaker 3: that we pulled was like it stuff around the house. Okay, fair, 808 00:40:38,847 --> 00:40:42,687 Speaker 3: I'll give that to Luka. The second card was accounting, Okay, fair, 809 00:40:42,767 --> 00:40:45,847 Speaker 3: I'll give that Tuluka. The third card was repairs around 810 00:40:45,887 --> 00:40:48,167 Speaker 3: the house, and I was like, this feels misogynistic if 811 00:40:48,207 --> 00:40:51,647 Speaker 3: you're asking me. The fourth card was garbage and I 812 00:40:51,687 --> 00:40:54,567 Speaker 3: was like, all right, where are all my tasks? And 813 00:40:54,607 --> 00:40:57,527 Speaker 3: then there was nighttime wake ups boom me. 814 00:40:58,487 --> 00:41:01,767 Speaker 7: Then they got a few good wins on the trot. Yeah, 815 00:41:01,807 --> 00:41:03,887 Speaker 7: picked up a little bit of momentum, Yeah I did. 816 00:41:03,927 --> 00:41:07,407 Speaker 3: I did things such as enrichment for our child. 817 00:41:07,527 --> 00:41:09,647 Speaker 4: Yeah, you started clutching its straws after a while. 818 00:41:09,687 --> 00:41:10,847 Speaker 3: Yeah, I did that a card. 819 00:41:11,207 --> 00:41:11,567 Speaker 1: What's that? 820 00:41:11,767 --> 00:41:15,367 Speaker 3: Enrichment? Just like learning learning, I teach everything. And then 821 00:41:15,407 --> 00:41:19,367 Speaker 3: I did start going through the discarded cards that I 822 00:41:19,407 --> 00:41:22,367 Speaker 3: said didn't really matter to our family and claiming some 823 00:41:22,407 --> 00:41:22,767 Speaker 3: of those. 824 00:41:23,007 --> 00:41:23,327 Speaker 4: Yeah. 825 00:41:23,727 --> 00:41:27,167 Speaker 7: I think beforehand you seem to imply that you thought 826 00:41:27,247 --> 00:41:29,607 Speaker 7: that there was a lot of invisible work that you 827 00:41:29,647 --> 00:41:32,247 Speaker 7: did around the house, mental load that I didn't know about, 828 00:41:32,687 --> 00:41:33,887 Speaker 7: and that's why we should do the cards. 829 00:41:33,887 --> 00:41:36,167 Speaker 4: And my feedback was, I. 830 00:41:35,927 --> 00:41:37,927 Speaker 7: Know everything you do, and you do an enormous amount 831 00:41:37,927 --> 00:41:40,487 Speaker 7: around the house, and you definitely one hundred percent take 832 00:41:40,807 --> 00:41:41,807 Speaker 7: the line's share of the. 833 00:41:41,727 --> 00:41:43,287 Speaker 4: Mental load when it comes to Luna. 834 00:41:43,367 --> 00:41:45,407 Speaker 7: And my feedback to you before we did the cards was, 835 00:41:46,047 --> 00:41:48,767 Speaker 7: maybe you don't have any visibility of what I do. 836 00:41:48,967 --> 00:41:51,207 Speaker 7: I have visibility you do, so I don't think we 837 00:41:51,327 --> 00:41:53,527 Speaker 7: need to do the cards. I'm comfortable, But if you 838 00:41:53,727 --> 00:41:55,567 Speaker 7: need to do them as an exercise to see what 839 00:41:55,647 --> 00:41:55,847 Speaker 7: I do. 840 00:41:56,167 --> 00:41:57,127 Speaker 4: That's fine, whatever. 841 00:41:57,327 --> 00:42:00,167 Speaker 3: I would like to leave this conversation on one card. 842 00:42:00,247 --> 00:42:00,447 Speaker 1: May Or. 843 00:42:00,447 --> 00:42:01,847 Speaker 3: I haven't told you this story, but so. 844 00:42:02,207 --> 00:42:04,167 Speaker 1: When the cards were out, how many cards? 845 00:42:04,207 --> 00:42:08,607 Speaker 7: It's the vast majority by a long way. 846 00:42:08,767 --> 00:42:09,127 Speaker 1: You had. 847 00:42:09,327 --> 00:42:11,527 Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, I have a question because you know I'm 848 00:42:11,567 --> 00:42:12,247 Speaker 2: on your side, Jess. 849 00:42:12,247 --> 00:42:12,847 Speaker 3: Thank you. 850 00:42:12,927 --> 00:42:15,767 Speaker 2: Not all jobs are equally You can take a bin out, 851 00:42:15,807 --> 00:42:17,807 Speaker 2: it's not the same as planning and what the child's 852 00:42:17,807 --> 00:42:18,567 Speaker 2: going to eat all week. 853 00:42:18,727 --> 00:42:21,247 Speaker 3: I completely agree, wouldn't you say, Luca? 854 00:42:21,367 --> 00:42:23,967 Speaker 7: I think that it was pretty clear at the end 855 00:42:24,127 --> 00:42:26,167 Speaker 7: who won't You're not meant to win. 856 00:42:26,207 --> 00:42:29,647 Speaker 3: But there are a lot of tasks that weren't included. 857 00:42:29,807 --> 00:42:31,887 Speaker 3: I will be writing to her. But how about this 858 00:42:32,047 --> 00:42:34,287 Speaker 3: I do. There was one that said backfire on it 859 00:42:34,367 --> 00:42:37,047 Speaker 3: that said community service, and I looked at it and 860 00:42:37,087 --> 00:42:38,687 Speaker 3: I said to Luca, actually, as a family, I think 861 00:42:38,687 --> 00:42:41,847 Speaker 3: we could do more community service. And Lucas said, I quote, 862 00:42:42,287 --> 00:42:46,047 Speaker 3: I do do community service. I referee. That is a 863 00:42:46,087 --> 00:42:48,927 Speaker 3: paid job that Luca does on Saturdays. And he thought 864 00:42:49,167 --> 00:42:51,447 Speaker 3: that was community service. And I said, that's just a 865 00:42:51,527 --> 00:42:53,127 Speaker 3: job you do for money. 866 00:42:53,327 --> 00:42:54,047 Speaker 1: If you did it for. 867 00:42:54,007 --> 00:42:56,127 Speaker 4: No money, the money is very small. 868 00:42:56,287 --> 00:42:58,447 Speaker 3: No, No, that's not what community service means. 869 00:42:58,487 --> 00:42:59,327 Speaker 1: Why do you do it a. 870 00:42:59,287 --> 00:43:02,447 Speaker 7: Bit about refereeing that I care about really the control 871 00:43:02,527 --> 00:43:04,567 Speaker 7: and having the giving back to the community. 872 00:43:04,607 --> 00:43:06,727 Speaker 3: It's not about giving back to the community, you know, Jesse. 873 00:43:07,207 --> 00:43:10,447 Speaker 1: I was worried when you said on Friday about getting 874 00:43:10,447 --> 00:43:13,167 Speaker 1: the cards, because I was like, this is a rookie era. 875 00:43:13,367 --> 00:43:16,287 Speaker 1: Because my home set up is similar to yours, in. 876 00:43:16,247 --> 00:43:19,527 Speaker 7: Which challenging a fucking grandmaster chess player at a work 877 00:43:19,567 --> 00:43:19,927 Speaker 7: game of. 878 00:43:19,927 --> 00:43:22,967 Speaker 1: Chess, I would not want to see all the things 879 00:43:22,967 --> 00:43:23,407 Speaker 1: that I am. 880 00:43:23,847 --> 00:43:25,087 Speaker 4: I am the mental load. 881 00:43:25,287 --> 00:43:27,847 Speaker 1: I would have so few cards. So do you feel 882 00:43:27,887 --> 00:43:29,327 Speaker 1: less resentful afterwards? Jesse? 883 00:43:29,607 --> 00:43:30,927 Speaker 3: Making the bed wasn't a card. 884 00:43:31,207 --> 00:43:33,527 Speaker 7: Making the bed is not a mental load. If you 885 00:43:33,527 --> 00:43:35,047 Speaker 7: want to get up earlier and I get up. 886 00:43:35,047 --> 00:43:38,127 Speaker 4: Last, I will make the bed. How we start our 887 00:43:38,207 --> 00:43:39,207 Speaker 4: day as human beings. 888 00:43:39,247 --> 00:43:41,407 Speaker 2: I hope you included that you have to organize all 889 00:43:41,447 --> 00:43:42,847 Speaker 2: the childcare I did. 890 00:43:42,927 --> 00:43:44,327 Speaker 3: That was one of that's a big job. 891 00:43:44,407 --> 00:43:46,927 Speaker 2: That's harder than taking a bin out was one of 892 00:43:46,927 --> 00:43:50,567 Speaker 2: her cars. What happens when the nannies six slash mom 893 00:43:50,607 --> 00:43:53,767 Speaker 2: can't come over slash whatever exactly. 894 00:43:54,047 --> 00:43:56,487 Speaker 3: I don't think this is farewell for our relationship, and 895 00:43:56,567 --> 00:43:58,527 Speaker 3: I'm considering a divorce anyway. 896 00:43:58,567 --> 00:44:01,607 Speaker 4: One Neil Luca up top. 897 00:44:02,927 --> 00:44:04,607 Speaker 2: You know a friend of mine, if she was listening 898 00:44:04,607 --> 00:44:06,687 Speaker 2: to this where she will be high, she would be saying, 899 00:44:06,727 --> 00:44:08,607 Speaker 2: but actually this doesn't apply to him, but it would 900 00:44:08,607 --> 00:44:10,607 Speaker 2: apply to a lot of man. How well does he 901 00:44:10,687 --> 00:44:13,007 Speaker 2: do those jobs? That's what she would say. So true, 902 00:44:13,167 --> 00:44:16,647 Speaker 2: But unfortunately Luca is quite thorough and organized, but a 903 00:44:16,647 --> 00:44:18,847 Speaker 2: lot of men would be like, see, I did cook dinner, 904 00:44:18,887 --> 00:44:22,367 Speaker 2: but cooking dinner was just like some riveta with some 905 00:44:22,607 --> 00:44:23,367 Speaker 2: deat side on it. 906 00:44:23,447 --> 00:44:25,327 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's like the one meal I know how to cook. 907 00:44:25,367 --> 00:44:30,047 Speaker 1: But I understand why you feel so kind of resentful 908 00:44:30,167 --> 00:44:33,367 Speaker 1: because before you had no mental load pretty much, and 909 00:44:33,407 --> 00:44:36,927 Speaker 1: now it's all been downside for you in terms of 910 00:44:36,967 --> 00:44:39,607 Speaker 1: extra work. Have the beautiful child, I know, but I 911 00:44:39,647 --> 00:44:42,967 Speaker 1: mean in terms of work, right, it's only been a 912 00:44:43,007 --> 00:44:47,127 Speaker 1: massive increase for you, yes, But for him, he hasn't 913 00:44:47,127 --> 00:44:49,647 Speaker 1: gained any but he's always had a ton. 914 00:44:49,887 --> 00:44:52,247 Speaker 3: You know, what I think we should do on top 915 00:44:52,327 --> 00:44:55,487 Speaker 3: of the cards is get out of timer. And every 916 00:44:55,567 --> 00:44:58,687 Speaker 3: time you're doing something to contribute to the family, I 917 00:44:58,727 --> 00:44:59,847 Speaker 3: think you'd get your timer. 918 00:45:00,287 --> 00:45:01,487 Speaker 2: We should put it on the sensus. 919 00:45:01,767 --> 00:45:06,007 Speaker 1: I feel like feelings should somehow be that's measure. It's hard, 920 00:45:06,127 --> 00:45:09,687 Speaker 1: but it's like I bring the good vibes. I do too. 921 00:45:09,807 --> 00:45:13,207 Speaker 1: I bring the joy and I bring the lulls. 922 00:45:13,767 --> 00:45:18,447 Speaker 2: I bring the parenting is harder remembering to renew the 923 00:45:18,487 --> 00:45:20,607 Speaker 2: car insurance. I'm sorry, but these jobs are not the 924 00:45:20,647 --> 00:45:21,367 Speaker 2: same exactly. 925 00:45:21,447 --> 00:45:23,727 Speaker 3: There was one that was airline points and I was like, 926 00:45:24,127 --> 00:45:26,807 Speaker 3: shutout airline points exactly. Try that cart out. 927 00:45:28,327 --> 00:45:31,127 Speaker 2: I've got you, Jesse out loud as A massive thank 928 00:45:31,167 --> 00:45:33,527 Speaker 2: you to you for being with us through our Monday show. 929 00:45:33,607 --> 00:45:36,287 Speaker 2: Hopefully that our little glimpse into Jesse and Luca's house 930 00:45:36,407 --> 00:45:40,807 Speaker 2: brightened up your week, so please please jump in the 931 00:45:40,847 --> 00:45:43,327 Speaker 2: group and help us find a way to make Jesse win. 932 00:45:45,247 --> 00:45:47,607 Speaker 2: A massive thank you too to our fabulous team who 933 00:45:47,647 --> 00:45:49,527 Speaker 2: help us put this show together. We are going to 934 00:45:49,527 --> 00:45:53,487 Speaker 2: be back in your ears tomorrow. Goodbye bye. 935 00:45:54,247 --> 00:45:57,527 Speaker 1: Shout out to any Muma Mia subscribers listening. If you 936 00:45:57,687 --> 00:46:00,047 Speaker 1: love the show and want to support us as well, 937 00:46:00,247 --> 00:46:02,647 Speaker 1: subscribing to mom and Mia is the very best way 938 00:46:02,647 --> 00:46:04,727 Speaker 1: to do so. There is a link in the episode 939 00:46:04,767 --> 00:46:05,207 Speaker 1: description