1 00:00:08,234 --> 00:00:15,874 Speaker 1: You're listening to Amma Mia podcast. Welcome out Louders to 2 00:00:15,954 --> 00:00:21,553 Speaker 1: our second Summer book Club episode. Now, I'm Hollywood, right, 3 00:00:21,634 --> 00:00:24,514 Speaker 1: I'm Jesse Stevens, and I'm Berner. And when we were 4 00:00:24,594 --> 00:00:27,594 Speaker 1: choosing our books for the Summer book Club, we're doing 5 00:00:27,674 --> 00:00:30,874 Speaker 1: three at least to start with. We wanted different kinds 6 00:00:30,874 --> 00:00:31,594 Speaker 1: of books. 7 00:00:31,274 --> 00:00:33,513 Speaker 2: Because our first book, of course, was All Fours by 8 00:00:33,513 --> 00:00:37,514 Speaker 2: Miranda July. Great comment in the out Louders Facebook group 9 00:00:37,513 --> 00:00:39,554 Speaker 2: from a woman who said, who would you cast? Which 10 00:00:39,553 --> 00:00:43,434 Speaker 2: I sometimes find that question hard, but she said for Davy, 11 00:00:43,513 --> 00:00:46,793 Speaker 2: she would cast Dave Franco and I haven't stopped thinking 12 00:00:46,793 --> 00:00:52,114 Speaker 2: about that. It's so so accurate. She just absolutely nailed it. 13 00:00:52,314 --> 00:00:55,874 Speaker 2: But our second one, we wanted a very different vibe. 14 00:00:55,634 --> 00:00:57,753 Speaker 1: And we have gone with a very different vibe. Our 15 00:00:57,794 --> 00:01:02,194 Speaker 1: second book is by Emily Henry and it's called Great, Big, 16 00:01:02,273 --> 00:01:07,594 Speaker 1: Beautiful Life. Now, this is my first m hen novel, 17 00:01:07,834 --> 00:01:10,874 Speaker 1: but she is huge. Em You tell us about em 18 00:01:10,954 --> 00:01:12,354 Speaker 1: hen She's massive. 19 00:01:12,354 --> 00:01:16,554 Speaker 3: Firstly, I'm so excited we did this book because I 20 00:01:16,634 --> 00:01:18,194 Speaker 3: wanted to do it because all my friends have read 21 00:01:18,194 --> 00:01:19,754 Speaker 3: it and I needed to talk about it. 22 00:01:19,794 --> 00:01:21,514 Speaker 4: Have you read other Emily Henry book? 23 00:01:21,674 --> 00:01:24,394 Speaker 3: Yes, I'm a new m hen fan, a new m 24 00:01:24,434 --> 00:01:28,474 Speaker 3: hen Stan. So Emily Henry was introduced in my life 25 00:01:28,514 --> 00:01:31,154 Speaker 3: around COVID time. She came out with a book in 26 00:01:31,194 --> 00:01:35,514 Speaker 3: twenty twenty called Beach Read that immediately sold millions of copies, 27 00:01:35,754 --> 00:01:38,714 Speaker 3: and she became so so famous, and since then she's 28 00:01:38,754 --> 00:01:43,594 Speaker 3: been producing romance novel after romance novel every single year since, 29 00:01:44,314 --> 00:01:47,394 Speaker 3: and all bestsellers. In five my best sellers, they're all 30 00:01:47,434 --> 00:01:50,034 Speaker 3: going to be made into movies and TV shows. One 31 00:01:50,074 --> 00:01:52,994 Speaker 3: of her books, People we Meet on Vacation, is currently 32 00:01:53,114 --> 00:01:55,514 Speaker 3: getting made into a Netflix movie. 33 00:01:55,194 --> 00:01:56,714 Speaker 4: Of course it is, Yes, the two. 34 00:01:56,594 --> 00:01:58,474 Speaker 3: Other books I've read, so she does a lot of 35 00:01:58,514 --> 00:02:01,434 Speaker 3: like romantic tropes, right, she does like excess to lovers, 36 00:02:01,554 --> 00:02:03,834 Speaker 3: colleagues to lovers, enemies to lovers. 37 00:02:04,634 --> 00:02:07,314 Speaker 1: She's considered a romance writer to a point, but she's 38 00:02:07,394 --> 00:02:10,194 Speaker 1: broken through out of that genre into mainstream. 39 00:02:10,394 --> 00:02:10,994 Speaker 5: Yeah. 40 00:02:11,034 --> 00:02:13,954 Speaker 3: And the two books I've read from hers is Funny Story, 41 00:02:14,714 --> 00:02:17,953 Speaker 3: which is about roommates to lovers, and another one called 42 00:02:17,994 --> 00:02:20,714 Speaker 3: Happy Plays. And this book is like the book that 43 00:02:20,834 --> 00:02:24,434 Speaker 3: everyone loves from her. It's about X's going into lovers 44 00:02:24,594 --> 00:02:27,314 Speaker 3: and I have a friend who listens to it as 45 00:02:27,354 --> 00:02:29,194 Speaker 3: an audiobook probably three times a year. 46 00:02:29,314 --> 00:02:31,074 Speaker 5: Really, Yeah. 47 00:02:31,114 --> 00:02:34,234 Speaker 2: What I found interesting two things about Emily Henry that 48 00:02:34,274 --> 00:02:37,353 Speaker 2: I found on my googling. The first is that she's 49 00:02:37,394 --> 00:02:40,154 Speaker 2: a year younger than me, which I don't appreciate at all, 50 00:02:40,274 --> 00:02:42,914 Speaker 2: because she has written I think she's written more than 51 00:02:42,914 --> 00:02:45,394 Speaker 2: ten books. She's written ten books, and. 52 00:02:45,354 --> 00:02:46,314 Speaker 5: How many have you done? 53 00:02:46,474 --> 00:02:49,314 Speaker 2: I have only done two, and none of them are 54 00:02:49,354 --> 00:02:51,793 Speaker 2: New York Times bestsellers. I'll tell you that or made 55 00:02:51,794 --> 00:02:55,793 Speaker 2: into Netflix shows. And the second thing is that she 56 00:02:55,954 --> 00:02:58,674 Speaker 2: started in young adult and I think that that's an 57 00:02:58,714 --> 00:03:02,594 Speaker 2: important detail because that made me understand the style of 58 00:03:02,634 --> 00:03:06,074 Speaker 2: her writing a little bit more. I think that's why 59 00:03:06,154 --> 00:03:10,194 Speaker 2: she is so accessible. Young adult is this for a 60 00:03:10,194 --> 00:03:13,074 Speaker 2: long time. It's been this massive genre that we obviously 61 00:03:13,394 --> 00:03:16,994 Speaker 2: miss but captures a lot of teens adolescents and then 62 00:03:17,114 --> 00:03:19,714 Speaker 2: gets them into kind of adulthood. But that's where she started, 63 00:03:19,714 --> 00:03:21,394 Speaker 2: so I think she wrote, you know, four books or 64 00:03:21,394 --> 00:03:25,074 Speaker 2: whatever in that and then moved on to adults. 65 00:03:25,114 --> 00:03:27,874 Speaker 3: And I've noticed that her protagonist in her books like 66 00:03:28,194 --> 00:03:32,594 Speaker 3: grow with her, So she's also capturing like women my age, 67 00:03:32,674 --> 00:03:35,274 Speaker 3: but also women in my sister's age, who's in her 68 00:03:35,354 --> 00:03:38,034 Speaker 3: early twenties. Because I feel like I always read these 69 00:03:38,074 --> 00:03:39,994 Speaker 3: sorts of books when I was younger because I'd like 70 00:03:40,074 --> 00:03:41,154 Speaker 3: to see older. 71 00:03:41,554 --> 00:03:44,394 Speaker 2: Yeah, right, yes, yeah, And do you think that with 72 00:03:44,474 --> 00:03:46,554 Speaker 2: Emily Henry we are promised a happy ending? 73 00:03:46,634 --> 00:03:46,874 Speaker 1: Yeah? 74 00:03:47,514 --> 00:03:48,154 Speaker 4: Is that the right? 75 00:03:48,194 --> 00:03:52,474 Speaker 1: Well, the definition of a romance book is a happy ending. Okay, yes, absolutely, 76 00:03:52,874 --> 00:03:55,114 Speaker 1: And looking at it's really interesting because looking at some 77 00:03:55,154 --> 00:03:57,674 Speaker 1: of the reviews of this on Goodreads and stuff, so 78 00:03:57,714 --> 00:04:00,954 Speaker 1: she has a rabbit fan base, like they are obsessed 79 00:04:01,034 --> 00:04:03,554 Speaker 1: with her. They're hanging out for the next one. A 80 00:04:03,634 --> 00:04:05,874 Speaker 1: year is too long to wait. A lot of people 81 00:04:05,914 --> 00:04:08,194 Speaker 1: have said this is her first book that isn't strictly 82 00:04:08,314 --> 00:04:11,394 Speaker 1: romance because it has the whole double plot situation going on, 83 00:04:11,914 --> 00:04:13,434 Speaker 1: and there's some of them liked it and some of 84 00:04:13,474 --> 00:04:16,674 Speaker 1: them didn't for that reason. But yes, you are pretty 85 00:04:16,714 --> 00:04:20,034 Speaker 1: much guaranteed a romance and a happy ending with an 86 00:04:20,194 --> 00:04:22,914 Speaker 1: m N book. Shall we talk a little bit about 87 00:04:22,914 --> 00:04:27,154 Speaker 1: what this one's about. Yes, So this one is about 88 00:04:27,193 --> 00:04:30,513 Speaker 1: a writer called Alice Scott. She is in her early thirties, 89 00:04:30,594 --> 00:04:32,794 Speaker 1: thirty three. She is tall and good looking. 90 00:04:32,953 --> 00:04:33,513 Speaker 5: Yeah. 91 00:04:33,834 --> 00:04:37,873 Speaker 1: She travels to an island in Georgia and southern USA 92 00:04:38,393 --> 00:04:42,874 Speaker 1: to obstensibly interview with the view to writing a biography 93 00:04:42,873 --> 00:04:49,594 Speaker 1: of a reclusive, very famous American heiress who's now elderly. 94 00:04:50,193 --> 00:04:53,953 Speaker 2: I saw her as a this Margaret Ives who she's 95 00:04:53,953 --> 00:04:57,873 Speaker 2: interviewing as sort of succession Murdock. 96 00:04:58,594 --> 00:05:00,753 Speaker 3: Literally I had that, yeah, yeah. 97 00:05:00,354 --> 00:05:04,554 Speaker 4: Like that kind of Kennedy. Yeah, a little bit Kennedy, Yes, exactly. 98 00:05:04,193 --> 00:05:07,154 Speaker 1: Clearly super famous as one of the big themes the 99 00:05:07,154 --> 00:05:09,553 Speaker 1: book is about that, like she's so hounded by the 100 00:05:09,594 --> 00:05:11,593 Speaker 1: press her life to see who she's going to marry, 101 00:05:11,594 --> 00:05:12,234 Speaker 1: what she's going to do. 102 00:05:12,274 --> 00:05:14,433 Speaker 2: But also her family was the press, which I thought 103 00:05:14,474 --> 00:05:15,633 Speaker 2: was yes, yeah. 104 00:05:15,674 --> 00:05:19,674 Speaker 1: And so Alice travels to the island to meet Margaret 105 00:05:19,714 --> 00:05:23,233 Speaker 1: and obsensibly write this book. But there is another writer 106 00:05:23,354 --> 00:05:26,433 Speaker 1: there with whom she must compete, and he is a 107 00:05:26,474 --> 00:05:31,074 Speaker 1: Pulitz Surprise winning journalist called Hayden Anderson. He is also 108 00:05:31,433 --> 00:05:34,553 Speaker 1: very tall. He's very tall and very broody, very tall 109 00:05:34,594 --> 00:05:35,794 Speaker 1: and very broody. 110 00:05:35,513 --> 00:05:38,793 Speaker 2: And he has written a book, a former Politz Surprise 111 00:05:38,873 --> 00:05:41,633 Speaker 2: winning book, which I just every time it was described, 112 00:05:41,633 --> 00:05:41,873 Speaker 2: I was. 113 00:05:41,873 --> 00:05:44,834 Speaker 4: Like, I want to be reading that book. It's got 114 00:05:44,834 --> 00:05:45,833 Speaker 4: a really good purpose. 115 00:05:46,073 --> 00:05:48,633 Speaker 2: It's about a man named Lynn, a famous man named Lynn, 116 00:05:48,794 --> 00:05:52,153 Speaker 2: who knows that he has dementia in and he's losing 117 00:05:52,193 --> 00:05:53,033 Speaker 2: so many of these memories. 118 00:05:53,073 --> 00:05:55,633 Speaker 4: So he writes the book back to front. Oh, it's 119 00:05:55,674 --> 00:05:56,313 Speaker 4: really clever. 120 00:05:56,513 --> 00:05:58,954 Speaker 1: So he is my clever guy who writes the kind 121 00:05:58,993 --> 00:06:01,313 Speaker 1: of books Jesse wants to read, and she they have 122 00:06:01,393 --> 00:06:03,713 Speaker 1: to compete. Right now, if you're listening to this, you've 123 00:06:03,714 --> 00:06:06,273 Speaker 1: read the book, you know what happens. But I want 124 00:06:06,313 --> 00:06:09,273 Speaker 1: to talk a little bit about the hero about Hayden, 125 00:06:09,433 --> 00:06:11,513 Speaker 1: because what I've come to understand from doing a bit 126 00:06:11,513 --> 00:06:14,113 Speaker 1: of reading about romance lately is there are a few 127 00:06:14,154 --> 00:06:18,473 Speaker 1: different kinds of romantic hero Right. There's the alpha asshole 128 00:06:18,553 --> 00:06:22,633 Speaker 1: who's sometimes called the alpha hoole, who is like ripe 129 00:06:22,674 --> 00:06:25,154 Speaker 1: for redemption. There's a romance writer I know, and all 130 00:06:25,154 --> 00:06:28,073 Speaker 1: her heroes are alpha men who women can bring to 131 00:06:28,113 --> 00:06:29,393 Speaker 1: their knees, do you know what I mean? So there's 132 00:06:29,393 --> 00:06:32,954 Speaker 1: that kind of guy. But apparently Hayden is termed a 133 00:06:33,073 --> 00:06:36,473 Speaker 1: cinnamon role. Did you know that? Oh? No, So cinnamon 134 00:06:36,714 --> 00:06:41,553 Speaker 1: role characters are a romantic archetype. Obviously, they offer a 135 00:06:41,594 --> 00:06:46,273 Speaker 1: comforting alternative to aggressive alpha hole heroes, sweet and kind. 136 00:06:46,313 --> 00:06:48,354 Speaker 1: They might be grumpy on the surface, but sweet and 137 00:06:48,433 --> 00:06:52,794 Speaker 1: kind supportive acts as the heroine's biggest cheerleader, emotionally open 138 00:06:52,914 --> 00:06:56,954 Speaker 1: in touch with their feelings, unlike traditional growth heroes respectful. 139 00:06:57,113 --> 00:06:59,674 Speaker 1: So there was treat women with respect and they have 140 00:06:59,794 --> 00:07:04,433 Speaker 1: a relatively gentle demeanor. Now it's interesting because when I 141 00:07:04,553 --> 00:07:06,713 Speaker 1: read that, and there's piece of the New York Times 142 00:07:06,714 --> 00:07:09,354 Speaker 1: about m said that she always writes a lot of 143 00:07:09,354 --> 00:07:13,074 Speaker 1: cinnamon roles, that they're the kind of man who respects 144 00:07:13,114 --> 00:07:16,194 Speaker 1: everything the main female character has feelings about and never 145 00:07:16,234 --> 00:07:18,833 Speaker 1: tries to dominate her or take over her life. And 146 00:07:18,874 --> 00:07:23,234 Speaker 1: I've found this really interesting because old fashioned romance novels, 147 00:07:23,634 --> 00:07:26,273 Speaker 1: the heroes the object of a woman's affection is very 148 00:07:26,314 --> 00:07:30,874 Speaker 1: often a dickhead who somehow has to be redeemed. But 149 00:07:30,953 --> 00:07:32,713 Speaker 1: it felt like because I was feeling like I was 150 00:07:32,754 --> 00:07:35,913 Speaker 1: reading a millennial kind of romance for the first time. 151 00:07:36,674 --> 00:07:38,474 Speaker 1: We don't want that. They don't want that, you know 152 00:07:38,514 --> 00:07:40,074 Speaker 1: what I mean. You don't want this guy who's going 153 00:07:40,114 --> 00:07:42,474 Speaker 1: to be a dickhead and maybe string you along and 154 00:07:42,474 --> 00:07:44,914 Speaker 1: not call you back and all those things. You want 155 00:07:44,953 --> 00:07:47,914 Speaker 1: a cinnamon roll who is a guy who is sexy 156 00:07:47,994 --> 00:07:50,233 Speaker 1: and there's a little bit of chase there, but he's 157 00:07:50,354 --> 00:07:51,634 Speaker 1: always going to be nice to you. 158 00:07:51,834 --> 00:07:54,154 Speaker 3: That's so true because even with the other two books 159 00:07:54,154 --> 00:07:57,273 Speaker 3: of Hers I've read, both of the male characters have 160 00:07:57,354 --> 00:08:00,994 Speaker 3: been very similar to Hayden, and it's always they find 161 00:08:01,474 --> 00:08:05,554 Speaker 3: the girl very like silly and quirky, but also endearing. 162 00:08:05,874 --> 00:08:07,554 Speaker 3: And then there comes to a point where she's like, 163 00:08:07,754 --> 00:08:09,874 Speaker 3: I have to do this on my own and he's like, 164 00:08:09,994 --> 00:08:11,634 Speaker 3: I respect that. 165 00:08:12,274 --> 00:08:15,114 Speaker 1: Yes he's not, he does respect. Like. The thing that 166 00:08:15,154 --> 00:08:17,234 Speaker 1: I found interesting is that the first book of this 167 00:08:17,434 --> 00:08:20,194 Speaker 1: kind of like that's millennial romance, I think is I 168 00:08:20,194 --> 00:08:22,874 Speaker 1: found there was a lot of reference to wearing sunscreen, 169 00:08:23,393 --> 00:08:26,233 Speaker 1: a lot of adding salads, a lot of brown sugar 170 00:08:26,274 --> 00:08:27,994 Speaker 1: ice lattes, and a lot. 171 00:08:27,914 --> 00:08:29,754 Speaker 4: Of explicit reference to a common. 172 00:08:29,474 --> 00:08:34,834 Speaker 1: Dooms and consent, and like it's all very like sensible. 173 00:08:34,714 --> 00:08:37,994 Speaker 2: You know, and it's a very female gaze. It's incredibly 174 00:08:38,074 --> 00:08:42,194 Speaker 2: that's exactly what it is. And unapologetically, did we like Hayden? 175 00:08:42,194 --> 00:08:43,314 Speaker 1: Are we hot for Hayden? 176 00:08:43,554 --> 00:08:47,674 Speaker 2: I didn't feel hot for Hayden, but I read that 177 00:08:47,714 --> 00:08:50,994 Speaker 2: it's kind of the grumpy chirpy dichotomy, which I felt 178 00:08:51,034 --> 00:08:53,514 Speaker 2: and which grated on me at first, and then I. 179 00:08:53,514 --> 00:08:56,434 Speaker 1: Got used to because she is so our heroine. Alice 180 00:08:56,954 --> 00:09:00,794 Speaker 1: is a relentless optimist, who wears bright colors, wears little skirts, 181 00:09:00,914 --> 00:09:03,394 Speaker 1: is always smiling, is always happy, which is quite unusual 182 00:09:03,434 --> 00:09:05,554 Speaker 1: for a journalist. I do have to say, yeah, yeah, 183 00:09:06,154 --> 00:09:09,434 Speaker 1: but that's her, and he on the surface, even though 184 00:09:09,434 --> 00:09:11,554 Speaker 1: he's the cinnamon roll like nice guy on the surface, 185 00:09:11,674 --> 00:09:14,154 Speaker 1: is a bit grumpy and a bit unapproachable. 186 00:09:13,514 --> 00:09:17,834 Speaker 2: Which I was just thinking, Yeah, and I suppose that 187 00:09:17,914 --> 00:09:19,634 Speaker 2: this is, you know, a trope as old as time. 188 00:09:19,714 --> 00:09:24,634 Speaker 2: But if someone is that, like he was so unappealing 189 00:09:25,074 --> 00:09:28,833 Speaker 2: at the beginning and borderline rude and dismissive of her, 190 00:09:29,994 --> 00:09:32,794 Speaker 2: the idea that then he turns out to be someone 191 00:09:32,914 --> 00:09:36,794 Speaker 2: who's misunderstood and misread. I kind of didn't immediately buy, 192 00:09:36,994 --> 00:09:39,234 Speaker 2: like I was with him by the end, but I 193 00:09:39,714 --> 00:09:42,354 Speaker 2: think I do find that trope a little grating. 194 00:09:42,754 --> 00:09:46,234 Speaker 3: Yeah, and even the contrast between what she thinks of 195 00:09:46,314 --> 00:09:49,314 Speaker 3: him versus what her friends in the group chat think 196 00:09:49,354 --> 00:09:52,074 Speaker 3: of him, because I feel like, if this was real 197 00:09:52,994 --> 00:09:54,874 Speaker 3: and my friend was talking about this guy who I 198 00:09:54,954 --> 00:09:56,953 Speaker 3: know is an awful guy, and she's like, he's really 199 00:09:56,994 --> 00:09:58,874 Speaker 3: actually really nice, one to get to know him, like, 200 00:09:58,874 --> 00:09:59,514 Speaker 3: shut up. 201 00:09:59,754 --> 00:10:03,994 Speaker 2: Yeah, And if everyone else finds him cold and aloof 202 00:10:04,394 --> 00:10:09,034 Speaker 2: and rude and cynical and hard work. I was really 203 00:10:09,074 --> 00:10:10,714 Speaker 2: interested in the scene and we'll get to this where 204 00:10:10,714 --> 00:10:11,594 Speaker 2: he meets her mum. 205 00:10:11,834 --> 00:10:13,874 Speaker 1: I just thought that's where it all comes out. 206 00:10:14,034 --> 00:10:16,074 Speaker 2: Yeah, what's it going to be like when you introduce 207 00:10:16,154 --> 00:10:18,114 Speaker 2: this person to other people? Because the idea that just 208 00:10:18,234 --> 00:10:20,234 Speaker 2: you understand him and it's just to you that he 209 00:10:20,314 --> 00:10:21,194 Speaker 2: opens up and he. 210 00:10:21,154 --> 00:10:25,594 Speaker 1: Becomes this like you know, that is a trope is 211 00:10:25,594 --> 00:10:29,634 Speaker 1: all of time because women this generalizing about romantic tropes, 212 00:10:29,674 --> 00:10:32,394 Speaker 1: not talking about real life love. The idea of the 213 00:10:32,434 --> 00:10:34,754 Speaker 1: hero that you have to crack open, right that everybody 214 00:10:34,754 --> 00:10:36,953 Speaker 1: else might think is a dick, but you know, is 215 00:10:36,994 --> 00:10:39,154 Speaker 1: a really lovely person and he's just shy or whatever. 216 00:10:39,834 --> 00:10:43,874 Speaker 1: But I think in this instance, like it's quite quick 217 00:10:43,914 --> 00:10:46,554 Speaker 1: that she realizes that he's okay. She just finds him 218 00:10:46,634 --> 00:10:48,994 Speaker 1: very intimidating. But we know he wrote that lovely book 219 00:10:49,034 --> 00:10:51,554 Speaker 1: about that old man, so we know that he's a 220 00:10:51,594 --> 00:10:54,674 Speaker 1: man capable of emotional depth and who got very attached 221 00:10:54,714 --> 00:10:56,434 Speaker 1: to his subject there and all those things. 222 00:10:56,434 --> 00:10:58,434 Speaker 2: But he was quite rude at the beginning, like the 223 00:10:58,474 --> 00:11:00,514 Speaker 2: idea that she kind of didn't have a chance, and 224 00:11:00,554 --> 00:11:02,674 Speaker 2: there was an arrogance to him. 225 00:11:02,834 --> 00:11:04,274 Speaker 5: Yeah, he was like, I'm not the kind of person 226 00:11:04,314 --> 00:11:05,354 Speaker 5: who'll just be polite. 227 00:11:05,834 --> 00:11:08,434 Speaker 4: Yeah exactly, it's like, just be nicer. 228 00:11:08,754 --> 00:11:08,994 Speaker 1: And I. 229 00:11:10,514 --> 00:11:13,114 Speaker 2: Found her and I just didn't feel like she was 230 00:11:13,154 --> 00:11:17,434 Speaker 2: this well rounded character. And I found her kind of 231 00:11:18,114 --> 00:11:23,234 Speaker 2: bubbliness almost annoying and childish like that I kind of 232 00:11:23,234 --> 00:11:24,394 Speaker 2: wanted a bit goodsy girl. 233 00:11:24,674 --> 00:11:26,514 Speaker 4: Yeah exactly. She was a bit pixie girl. 234 00:11:26,514 --> 00:11:28,394 Speaker 2: And the way that she kind of pandered to everyone 235 00:11:28,434 --> 00:11:32,713 Speaker 2: and was just ridiculously lovely, I just thought. 236 00:11:32,554 --> 00:11:33,714 Speaker 4: I don't know anyone like that. 237 00:11:33,994 --> 00:11:34,354 Speaker 1: Yeah. 238 00:11:34,554 --> 00:11:38,274 Speaker 3: I think also with her being alone on the island, 239 00:11:38,314 --> 00:11:41,394 Speaker 3: she was just making decisions that I felt like weren't 240 00:11:41,394 --> 00:11:44,114 Speaker 3: so true, like going to a bar and seeing two 241 00:11:44,114 --> 00:11:46,434 Speaker 3: couples at the bar and wanting to be sat in 242 00:11:46,474 --> 00:11:47,074 Speaker 3: between them. 243 00:11:47,474 --> 00:11:49,114 Speaker 5: Yeah, there's just like weird little things. 244 00:11:49,194 --> 00:11:51,114 Speaker 3: I was like, that feels And now you're best friends 245 00:11:51,114 --> 00:11:53,834 Speaker 3: with the bar owner and going to his birthday. 246 00:11:53,994 --> 00:11:56,394 Speaker 1: Yeah, I didn't mind that. Like we're supposed to think 247 00:11:56,394 --> 00:11:58,634 Speaker 1: that she's an extravert, right, it's all the way through it. 248 00:11:58,714 --> 00:12:01,314 Speaker 1: She talks about that I like going out, I like socializing, 249 00:12:01,394 --> 00:12:04,114 Speaker 1: I like people. She likes talking to people. That's why 250 00:12:04,154 --> 00:12:05,954 Speaker 1: she is at the kind of journalist she is. She 251 00:12:06,074 --> 00:12:08,274 Speaker 1: likes going and finding out stories and all those things. 252 00:12:08,674 --> 00:12:11,074 Speaker 1: That is a real thing. Like a lot of writers 253 00:12:11,074 --> 00:12:14,274 Speaker 1: are very solitary, introverted people. But if you've got to 254 00:12:14,274 --> 00:12:15,914 Speaker 1: go and get stories out of people, you have to 255 00:12:15,914 --> 00:12:18,914 Speaker 1: be good with people. Have you met Trendall very good 256 00:12:18,954 --> 00:12:21,394 Speaker 1: with people? Like you have to win them over. You 257 00:12:21,474 --> 00:12:23,634 Speaker 1: have to stroke an ego. You have to not be 258 00:12:23,674 --> 00:12:25,354 Speaker 1: scared to walk up to a stranger and ask them 259 00:12:25,354 --> 00:12:27,754 Speaker 1: a question like you know what I mean? Yeah, very true, 260 00:12:27,914 --> 00:12:30,674 Speaker 1: that was I didn't find that too untrue. I wanted 261 00:12:30,674 --> 00:12:34,434 Speaker 1: to know like that she wasn't super insecure, like you know, 262 00:12:34,714 --> 00:12:36,953 Speaker 1: if that was a full that would have been too much. 263 00:12:37,194 --> 00:12:39,834 Speaker 1: She was yeah, and she knew she was kind of 264 00:12:39,874 --> 00:12:43,354 Speaker 1: hot and attractive and whatever. And she has this situationship 265 00:12:43,394 --> 00:12:44,154 Speaker 1: going on with THEO. 266 00:12:44,354 --> 00:12:46,194 Speaker 5: THEO is who I wanted to hear more from. 267 00:12:46,234 --> 00:12:47,794 Speaker 1: Oh No, I thought that was great. 268 00:12:48,034 --> 00:12:51,234 Speaker 4: I thought the THEO storyline was so real. 269 00:12:51,394 --> 00:12:52,074 Speaker 5: It was too real. 270 00:12:52,194 --> 00:12:53,034 Speaker 4: The way in which. 271 00:12:52,874 --> 00:12:57,794 Speaker 2: Her friends said THEO only like he is always laying 272 00:12:57,834 --> 00:13:01,114 Speaker 2: the groundwork for you to invite him for you twinn shate, 273 00:13:01,194 --> 00:13:02,954 Speaker 2: I was like, I have been in that dynamic so 274 00:13:03,074 --> 00:13:06,354 Speaker 2: many times. The canceling last minute, I just felt like 275 00:13:06,474 --> 00:13:08,353 Speaker 2: THEO she nailed. 276 00:13:08,114 --> 00:13:08,434 Speaker 1: It with that. 277 00:13:08,794 --> 00:13:10,914 Speaker 3: Her friend's just saying, as long as you're getting what 278 00:13:10,954 --> 00:13:12,954 Speaker 3: you want out of this, and you both know that 279 00:13:13,154 --> 00:13:13,554 Speaker 3: you're not. 280 00:13:14,114 --> 00:13:16,474 Speaker 2: You're not, but that there's no other options. So you're like, 281 00:13:16,634 --> 00:13:19,794 Speaker 2: I'm really just here for the scraps. At the moment, 282 00:13:20,434 --> 00:13:22,114 Speaker 2: we are going to take a break, and when we 283 00:13:22,274 --> 00:13:24,794 Speaker 2: come back, I want to tell you about the turning 284 00:13:24,794 --> 00:13:26,434 Speaker 2: point for me in this Bookay. 285 00:13:27,154 --> 00:13:29,194 Speaker 1: The reason why this book is a bit different, as 286 00:13:29,194 --> 00:13:30,634 Speaker 1: far as I can tell from what people have told 287 00:13:30,674 --> 00:13:32,674 Speaker 1: me about other m M novels, is that it's quite 288 00:13:32,714 --> 00:13:35,114 Speaker 1: actually quite ambitious in its scope. Right. So we've got 289 00:13:35,114 --> 00:13:37,674 Speaker 1: this storyline that we've just outlined with Alison Hayden and 290 00:13:37,714 --> 00:13:39,434 Speaker 1: will they won't they? And we all know that no will, 291 00:13:39,674 --> 00:13:42,834 Speaker 1: but how and how good will it be? Etc. But 292 00:13:42,914 --> 00:13:45,754 Speaker 1: the other storyline we have going through it is the 293 00:13:45,754 --> 00:13:48,234 Speaker 1: woman they've both come to try and win over interview, 294 00:13:48,354 --> 00:13:51,474 Speaker 1: Margaret Ives, who is our heiress. She's now in her 295 00:13:51,474 --> 00:13:54,154 Speaker 1: eighties and she has this fascinating story to tell. Now, 296 00:13:54,914 --> 00:13:58,634 Speaker 1: interesting choice as a writer to decide that you've got 297 00:13:58,674 --> 00:14:02,154 Speaker 1: your relatively straightforward romance here and then you're going to 298 00:14:02,154 --> 00:14:07,474 Speaker 1: weave in this quite complex backstory of Margaret's which goes 299 00:14:07,514 --> 00:14:11,514 Speaker 1: several generations back to great grandfather and who he married 300 00:14:11,554 --> 00:14:13,754 Speaker 1: and there blah blah blah blah, and then her dad 301 00:14:13,794 --> 00:14:15,354 Speaker 1: and her mum and her sister and all this. 302 00:14:15,714 --> 00:14:17,154 Speaker 5: I found they're very confusing. 303 00:14:17,234 --> 00:14:19,594 Speaker 1: Now, I found it quite confusing at times, but lots 304 00:14:19,634 --> 00:14:22,834 Speaker 1: of people have called this out as being quite derivative 305 00:14:22,874 --> 00:14:26,354 Speaker 1: is probably too strong a word. Reminiscent of Taylor Jenkins 306 00:14:26,394 --> 00:14:30,834 Speaker 1: reads Evil and Hugo the Seven Husbands now at Taylor. 307 00:14:31,474 --> 00:14:33,514 Speaker 4: Jones and The Six I think it was a mixture 308 00:14:33,554 --> 00:14:34,474 Speaker 4: of those two. 309 00:14:34,754 --> 00:14:38,354 Speaker 1: Yeah, because in that a journalist is interviewing a woman 310 00:14:38,394 --> 00:14:40,154 Speaker 1: about her life and her loves and new kind of 311 00:14:40,154 --> 00:14:40,914 Speaker 1: feeling that it's going. 312 00:14:40,914 --> 00:14:43,034 Speaker 3: To happen, and Taylor Jenkins read blurbed. 313 00:14:43,234 --> 00:14:45,954 Speaker 1: Yeah, she's clearly a fan of m Hen's. I think 314 00:14:45,954 --> 00:14:48,234 Speaker 1: that's you know, their their buddies whatever. But a few 315 00:14:48,274 --> 00:14:51,514 Speaker 1: people have said is similar to that. But I think 316 00:14:51,674 --> 00:14:54,234 Speaker 1: Emily Henry was obviously taking a swing to do something 317 00:14:54,314 --> 00:14:56,674 Speaker 1: different with this book in that it has more depth 318 00:14:56,714 --> 00:15:00,034 Speaker 1: and more scope. But did that work? I loved it. 319 00:15:00,034 --> 00:15:01,074 Speaker 4: It was my favorite part of it. 320 00:15:02,154 --> 00:15:04,954 Speaker 2: I found that I was looking forward to those chapters. 321 00:15:05,474 --> 00:15:10,834 Speaker 2: I really liked the the complexity of the family dynamics. 322 00:15:10,874 --> 00:15:12,994 Speaker 2: If you told me that that was a big part 323 00:15:12,994 --> 00:15:14,434 Speaker 2: of the book, I don't think it would have sold me. 324 00:15:14,834 --> 00:15:16,754 Speaker 2: But for some reason, every time I hit one of 325 00:15:16,754 --> 00:15:19,554 Speaker 2: those chapters, I went, oh, I really like this, and 326 00:15:19,594 --> 00:15:21,994 Speaker 2: I loved the device she used, which was what the 327 00:15:22,034 --> 00:15:26,154 Speaker 2: headline said and then what was actually going on behind 328 00:15:26,154 --> 00:15:27,954 Speaker 2: the scenes. I thought it was really true to the 329 00:15:27,994 --> 00:15:32,474 Speaker 2: complexity of family and how there was a sibling who 330 00:15:32,554 --> 00:15:37,874 Speaker 2: felt like they had less attention or a really complicated father. 331 00:15:38,034 --> 00:15:41,354 Speaker 4: I thought that for the way in which the. 332 00:15:41,274 --> 00:15:45,194 Speaker 2: Two protagonists were caricatures, to me, I felt like these 333 00:15:45,234 --> 00:15:47,994 Speaker 2: weren't caricatures. It read almost like a history book, and 334 00:15:48,034 --> 00:15:48,874 Speaker 2: I really liked that. 335 00:15:49,074 --> 00:15:53,714 Speaker 3: Yeah, I didn't like the Margaret story. Every time I 336 00:15:53,714 --> 00:15:55,474 Speaker 3: got to like the chapter where it was like chapter 337 00:15:55,554 --> 00:15:56,994 Speaker 3: seventeen and then the story, I was. 338 00:15:56,914 --> 00:15:58,914 Speaker 4: Like, oh, so that's really. 339 00:15:58,754 --> 00:16:01,114 Speaker 1: Because you two are basically opposites in this. You were 340 00:16:01,274 --> 00:16:03,114 Speaker 1: happy days. I love that, and you were like, oh no, 341 00:16:03,234 --> 00:16:05,194 Speaker 1: let's get back, get back to the Georgia, tell me 342 00:16:05,354 --> 00:16:07,114 Speaker 1: tell the small Why did you not like it? 343 00:16:07,314 --> 00:16:10,554 Speaker 3: I think because I don't want to compare, but because 344 00:16:10,674 --> 00:16:14,434 Speaker 3: I had read Evelyn Hugo first I think also with 345 00:16:14,514 --> 00:16:18,634 Speaker 3: the Taylor Jenkins read going into the Evelyn Hugo story, 346 00:16:19,234 --> 00:16:21,914 Speaker 3: and it was also similar things like the big obstacle 347 00:16:21,914 --> 00:16:24,634 Speaker 3: in both of these women's stories, like Margaret and Evelyn 348 00:16:24,714 --> 00:16:28,194 Speaker 3: Hugo was like the paparazzi were insane. And I felt 349 00:16:28,194 --> 00:16:31,154 Speaker 3: that more with Evelyn Hugo when you get to the 350 00:16:31,274 --> 00:16:34,034 Speaker 3: climax of the story that you can see how bad 351 00:16:34,074 --> 00:16:36,314 Speaker 3: it was for her. And I feel like this one 352 00:16:36,354 --> 00:16:38,394 Speaker 3: was just too rushed because I think we were also 353 00:16:38,434 --> 00:16:40,794 Speaker 3: dealing with the other story, like god, rushed is not a. 354 00:16:40,714 --> 00:16:41,594 Speaker 1: Word I would use. 355 00:16:44,274 --> 00:16:45,354 Speaker 4: Okay, I know what you mean. 356 00:16:45,394 --> 00:16:48,554 Speaker 3: There's too many people. I forgot the name. I did 357 00:16:48,634 --> 00:16:49,634 Speaker 3: think there were too many people. 358 00:16:49,674 --> 00:16:51,794 Speaker 1: And I'm often a defender of that because people said 359 00:16:51,794 --> 00:16:53,354 Speaker 1: that about my last book, that there may be too 360 00:16:53,394 --> 00:16:53,954 Speaker 1: many people, and. 361 00:16:54,074 --> 00:16:55,994 Speaker 3: You know, you had that I think I needed in this. 362 00:16:56,074 --> 00:16:58,074 Speaker 3: I needed a family family tree. 363 00:16:58,114 --> 00:17:00,554 Speaker 1: But like for me, and I'm interested for Jesse to 364 00:17:00,594 --> 00:17:03,114 Speaker 1: tell me her turning point right because for me, the 365 00:17:03,154 --> 00:17:06,194 Speaker 1: first half of this book, I was like, this is 366 00:17:06,234 --> 00:17:10,314 Speaker 1: moving too slowly. I don't care about anybody. I'm kind 367 00:17:10,314 --> 00:17:12,434 Speaker 1: of over this, Like I don't want to know about 368 00:17:12,434 --> 00:17:14,434 Speaker 1: great granddad and da da da da dad. I don't 369 00:17:14,434 --> 00:17:17,634 Speaker 1: really care about all of that. And then in the 370 00:17:17,674 --> 00:17:20,634 Speaker 1: back half, or maybe certainly the back third, I was 371 00:17:20,714 --> 00:17:23,234 Speaker 1: totally engrossed in that story, like when it got to 372 00:17:23,554 --> 00:17:27,274 Speaker 1: her sister and the cult and what's his name? Cosmo, 373 00:17:27,314 --> 00:17:29,754 Speaker 1: who was a little bit I'm convincing, but the husband 374 00:17:30,234 --> 00:17:32,474 Speaker 1: and that kind of stuff, Like then I was in it. 375 00:17:32,514 --> 00:17:36,034 Speaker 1: And that was when I sort of started really page turning. 376 00:17:36,114 --> 00:17:39,114 Speaker 1: But I think this book is too long for what 377 00:17:39,194 --> 00:17:40,273 Speaker 1: it is. I genuinely do. 378 00:17:40,434 --> 00:17:44,674 Speaker 2: Yeah, right, okay, So I read the first chapter and went, 379 00:17:44,914 --> 00:17:46,273 Speaker 2: I don't know how I'm going to get through this. 380 00:17:46,514 --> 00:17:46,994 Speaker 1: I hate it. 381 00:17:47,314 --> 00:17:50,394 Speaker 2: I hated the way it was written. I didn't want 382 00:17:50,394 --> 00:17:52,834 Speaker 2: to spend time with the main character. I found her irritating. 383 00:17:52,994 --> 00:17:56,074 Speaker 2: I thought this is a bad Netflix movie and book form. 384 00:17:56,634 --> 00:18:00,274 Speaker 2: And then I thought this is a way less sophisticated 385 00:18:00,314 --> 00:18:03,833 Speaker 2: Taylor Jenkins read and I was going, what is the appeal? 386 00:18:04,194 --> 00:18:06,634 Speaker 2: And then I got something happened around page one hundred. 387 00:18:06,714 --> 00:18:08,354 Speaker 1: I know, I kind of want a page one hundred. 388 00:18:08,514 --> 00:18:10,754 Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe there was something sex that happened, and they 389 00:18:10,914 --> 00:18:11,994 Speaker 2: just totally got me in. 390 00:18:12,354 --> 00:18:13,194 Speaker 4: I also found like. 391 00:18:13,154 --> 00:18:16,194 Speaker 2: In those first one hundreds it was all about croissants 392 00:18:16,194 --> 00:18:18,954 Speaker 2: and what coffee she ordered, and she loved this way 393 00:18:18,954 --> 00:18:21,354 Speaker 2: and that way, like that is so far. I felt 394 00:18:21,394 --> 00:18:24,754 Speaker 2: like there were all these extraneous details that I went, 395 00:18:25,034 --> 00:18:26,593 Speaker 2: is this really you don't like that? 396 00:18:26,674 --> 00:18:29,714 Speaker 3: Like I love the description of like the coffee shop, 397 00:18:29,794 --> 00:18:32,034 Speaker 3: and like has she had the green tea by accident 398 00:18:32,034 --> 00:18:34,394 Speaker 3: and it burnt her lips its sweaty and shay. 399 00:18:34,434 --> 00:18:36,553 Speaker 1: I like all that too, But I wrote down in 400 00:18:36,594 --> 00:18:38,874 Speaker 1: my notes very similar thing to Jesse, which is like 401 00:18:39,194 --> 00:18:42,594 Speaker 1: some thing's way too detailed, and then strangely something's not 402 00:18:42,674 --> 00:18:44,114 Speaker 1: at all, Like I now I'm in an apartment that 403 00:18:44,114 --> 00:18:45,354 Speaker 1: I've rented in the woods, Like what. 404 00:18:45,954 --> 00:18:46,314 Speaker 4: When did you? 405 00:18:47,514 --> 00:18:49,074 Speaker 1: How did you find that place? I don't get it, 406 00:18:49,234 --> 00:18:51,994 Speaker 1: but I understand why she puts in all the latte 407 00:18:52,394 --> 00:18:55,514 Speaker 1: cafe whatever, because people love that. Young people love that shit. 408 00:18:56,314 --> 00:18:58,714 Speaker 3: I was in my head, I'm Alice, so I want 409 00:18:58,714 --> 00:19:00,674 Speaker 3: to be Alice, and I want to make the decisions. 410 00:19:01,034 --> 00:19:04,754 Speaker 2: I went to Little Croissant too many times, and I 411 00:19:04,874 --> 00:19:07,353 Speaker 2: was half listening to the audiobook and half reading it, 412 00:19:07,394 --> 00:19:10,874 Speaker 2: and every time the audiobook person said little Croissant, I 413 00:19:10,954 --> 00:19:12,234 Speaker 2: was like, okay, that's just. 414 00:19:13,634 --> 00:19:15,634 Speaker 1: But then it picked up for you and for you, 415 00:19:15,754 --> 00:19:17,834 Speaker 1: it was around one hundred. For me, I think it 416 00:19:17,914 --> 00:19:20,313 Speaker 1: was a bit further on where finally I kind of 417 00:19:20,914 --> 00:19:23,273 Speaker 1: when all the strands started coming together, because you know, 418 00:19:23,354 --> 00:19:25,674 Speaker 1: they're going to write in a book like this, and 419 00:19:25,874 --> 00:19:28,954 Speaker 1: that isn't a criticism, Like any writer of any skill 420 00:19:29,154 --> 00:19:31,914 Speaker 1: is going to bring all their threads together. That's what 421 00:19:31,954 --> 00:19:35,394 Speaker 1: they're there for. So when that started to happen for me, 422 00:19:35,474 --> 00:19:38,154 Speaker 1: the momentum started to move and I was like, Okay, 423 00:19:38,154 --> 00:19:40,074 Speaker 1: now I'm in it. Whereas the first half I was 424 00:19:40,154 --> 00:19:43,474 Speaker 1: kind of like meandering around, didn't know why, you know, 425 00:19:43,634 --> 00:19:46,554 Speaker 1: and that's part of a device, like you're not supposed 426 00:19:46,594 --> 00:19:49,954 Speaker 1: to know why. But I was definitely in danger of 427 00:19:49,994 --> 00:19:54,554 Speaker 1: wandering off, getting on the ferry and getting off the island. Yeah, 428 00:19:54,674 --> 00:19:56,634 Speaker 1: I felt I didn't and I'm glad I did it. 429 00:19:56,834 --> 00:19:57,554 Speaker 4: Yeah, I guess it. 430 00:19:57,674 --> 00:20:01,114 Speaker 2: Around that point I went. It reminded me of when, 431 00:20:01,834 --> 00:20:03,914 Speaker 2: because I guess I read books for lots of different reasons. 432 00:20:03,954 --> 00:20:07,073 Speaker 2: I love insights and observation. This didn't have a lot 433 00:20:07,234 --> 00:20:09,874 Speaker 2: of that, I don't think. Maybe towards the end there 434 00:20:09,914 --> 00:20:12,634 Speaker 2: was some commentary on the human condition and life that 435 00:20:12,674 --> 00:20:13,914 Speaker 2: I found kind. 436 00:20:13,834 --> 00:20:17,834 Speaker 1: Of mothers and sisters and family. 437 00:20:17,554 --> 00:20:19,834 Speaker 2: That got there for me, But certainly in the first 438 00:20:19,954 --> 00:20:22,513 Speaker 2: third there was nothing where I went, oh, that's a 439 00:20:22,514 --> 00:20:25,594 Speaker 2: clever observation, or like, that's an interesting thing I haven't 440 00:20:25,634 --> 00:20:28,754 Speaker 2: heard before. But by that point I went, I'm here 441 00:20:28,794 --> 00:20:32,074 Speaker 2: for the plot and I think I care how this 442 00:20:32,914 --> 00:20:36,234 Speaker 2: plays out, which which, yeah, then. 443 00:20:36,154 --> 00:20:38,434 Speaker 1: I was because what you're hanging out to find out 444 00:20:38,594 --> 00:20:41,594 Speaker 1: in this book is obviously there's the will they won't they? 445 00:20:41,634 --> 00:20:43,474 Speaker 1: And I was discussed we know they will, but how 446 00:20:43,994 --> 00:20:47,553 Speaker 1: Then there's the why? Why is this old lady making 447 00:20:47,594 --> 00:20:48,513 Speaker 1: these writers comparted? 448 00:20:48,714 --> 00:20:51,914 Speaker 2: I reckon I'd picked by page one hundred that she 449 00:20:52,034 --> 00:20:57,554 Speaker 2: had some relationship to Hayden, because I've seen it Neville 450 00:20:57,554 --> 00:21:01,194 Speaker 2: and Hugo. There's a movie called Lee and it's got 451 00:21:01,234 --> 00:21:04,353 Speaker 2: Kate Winslet, and it is about a war photographer and 452 00:21:04,394 --> 00:21:07,394 Speaker 2: she's telling her life story to this journalist and he 453 00:21:07,474 --> 00:21:09,634 Speaker 2: kind of doesn't know why him. It's the same thing. 454 00:21:09,754 --> 00:21:13,714 Speaker 2: And then you've just covered in the notebook device, Yeah, 455 00:21:13,754 --> 00:21:15,634 Speaker 2: that I've just seen the. 456 00:21:15,714 --> 00:21:18,074 Speaker 1: Year, But I didn't know what it was going to be, Okay, 457 00:21:18,594 --> 00:21:20,954 Speaker 1: yeah I didn't. I mean I knew that obviously there 458 00:21:20,994 --> 00:21:23,434 Speaker 1: had to be a reason, and so I kind of 459 00:21:23,474 --> 00:21:25,114 Speaker 1: wanted to know that, and then as I got more 460 00:21:25,114 --> 00:21:28,074 Speaker 1: into the family's story, I wanted to know what was 461 00:21:28,114 --> 00:21:29,513 Speaker 1: going to happen to the sister and all that kind 462 00:21:29,554 --> 00:21:31,033 Speaker 1: of stuff. Like I did want to know all that. 463 00:21:31,754 --> 00:21:35,754 Speaker 1: So I guess I was Paige turning for that. But 464 00:21:36,314 --> 00:21:38,194 Speaker 1: were you what did you want to know? 465 00:21:38,394 --> 00:21:41,674 Speaker 3: Firstly, my turning point was when there was a fire 466 00:21:42,154 --> 00:21:43,994 Speaker 3: and then he saved her from that creepy man. 467 00:21:44,354 --> 00:21:46,234 Speaker 1: Oh ye didn't that. 468 00:21:46,474 --> 00:21:49,434 Speaker 4: I forget about that, Like we're in boys. 469 00:21:50,074 --> 00:21:51,314 Speaker 1: I knew that was going to happen. 470 00:21:51,754 --> 00:21:54,313 Speaker 4: Yeah, that was quite nice, But I did not like 471 00:21:54,474 --> 00:21:55,394 Speaker 4: the ninety. 472 00:21:56,914 --> 00:22:00,554 Speaker 1: She was wearing the y there was three quarters a lot, 473 00:22:00,754 --> 00:22:03,634 Speaker 1: but she know that was part of her whole season. 474 00:22:03,834 --> 00:22:05,434 Speaker 4: But then they went to a diner and I was like, 475 00:22:05,434 --> 00:22:06,634 Speaker 4: she's still in a ninety Ye. 476 00:22:07,114 --> 00:22:08,754 Speaker 3: I also know like she had like a bit of 477 00:22:08,794 --> 00:22:10,274 Speaker 3: makeup on curls and her hair. 478 00:22:10,914 --> 00:22:13,313 Speaker 4: Yeah, and I worried about his sleep. I'll tell you that. 479 00:22:14,554 --> 00:22:16,594 Speaker 1: Not getting and also we're going to get to the 480 00:22:16,674 --> 00:22:19,834 Speaker 1: juicy stuff. But go on, Cecil, Yeah, not doing a 481 00:22:19,834 --> 00:22:27,194 Speaker 1: good job of hiding. No, was wandering around, although I 482 00:22:27,274 --> 00:22:29,553 Speaker 1: have to say that when it turns up that like 483 00:22:29,834 --> 00:22:32,154 Speaker 1: get the photo of cecil with the long hair. I 484 00:22:32,234 --> 00:22:34,513 Speaker 1: knew obviously it had to be connected, but I didn't 485 00:22:34,514 --> 00:22:37,594 Speaker 1: pick it. And then suddenly you're like, oh, that man 486 00:22:37,634 --> 00:22:40,114 Speaker 1: looks familiar in the back of that foot. Oh it's 487 00:22:40,274 --> 00:22:42,234 Speaker 1: with the long hair, Like when I didn't see that 488 00:22:42,314 --> 00:22:45,674 Speaker 1: coming from, which I definitely picked that Jody was either 489 00:22:45,674 --> 00:22:47,554 Speaker 1: going to be a daughter or a niece or something. 490 00:22:47,634 --> 00:22:48,994 Speaker 4: I knew that I thought maybe Laura. 491 00:22:48,994 --> 00:22:52,114 Speaker 1: It might be Laura. I thought it might be her sister. 492 00:22:52,554 --> 00:22:54,714 Speaker 1: When we come back, we got to get to the 493 00:22:54,714 --> 00:22:57,714 Speaker 1: sex scenes, because I think that's a large part of 494 00:22:57,874 --> 00:22:59,914 Speaker 1: why people like these books. 495 00:22:59,954 --> 00:23:01,674 Speaker 4: I have some concents. 496 00:23:02,234 --> 00:23:06,194 Speaker 1: So back to the romance. As you've already flagged. The 497 00:23:06,314 --> 00:23:10,554 Speaker 1: moment where slightly gruffed, slightly unavailable, but very hot Hayden 498 00:23:11,274 --> 00:23:14,954 Speaker 1: begins to show his cinnamon role credentials is when he 499 00:23:15,034 --> 00:23:17,754 Speaker 1: saves her from the creepy man outside the hotel when 500 00:23:17,834 --> 00:23:18,634 Speaker 1: fire alarm goes off. 501 00:23:18,674 --> 00:23:21,033 Speaker 3: Yeah, and he puts his arm around her waist and 502 00:23:21,074 --> 00:23:24,034 Speaker 3: then they walk off together and then she's like, Okay, 503 00:23:24,114 --> 00:23:25,834 Speaker 3: good night, and he's like, no, I want to get 504 00:23:25,834 --> 00:23:26,553 Speaker 3: breakfast with you. 505 00:23:27,194 --> 00:23:29,714 Speaker 1: They're liking in breakfast at night. That's one of their quirks. 506 00:23:29,794 --> 00:23:32,714 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and I also I worried about I know 507 00:23:32,794 --> 00:23:35,273 Speaker 2: she's only thirty two, thirty three, but in terms of 508 00:23:35,394 --> 00:23:37,794 Speaker 2: cholesterol and blood pressure, it's just the next ten years, 509 00:23:37,794 --> 00:23:40,354 Speaker 2: they're not going to be kind. I just she there 510 00:23:40,394 --> 00:23:42,114 Speaker 2: was a lot of funny that you say that, because 511 00:23:42,114 --> 00:23:44,354 Speaker 2: for me, I felt there was too much reference to salad. 512 00:23:45,594 --> 00:23:47,474 Speaker 2: Yeah maybe for him, and she ate well when she 513 00:23:47,514 --> 00:23:49,674 Speaker 2: was with her mum, But when she was I just went, 514 00:23:49,714 --> 00:23:51,634 Speaker 2: we can make pancakes every day. Yeah, We're gonna have 515 00:23:51,634 --> 00:23:54,594 Speaker 2: pancakes and chrissals every day. She's having coffee at night. 516 00:23:54,874 --> 00:23:58,914 Speaker 1: She went, honey, mate, if I was on the island, 517 00:23:58,994 --> 00:24:01,434 Speaker 1: I did quite enjoy being on the island. If I 518 00:24:01,474 --> 00:24:03,553 Speaker 1: was on the island writing a story and I was her, 519 00:24:03,594 --> 00:24:05,274 Speaker 1: I would have been brunting every day for sure. 520 00:24:05,514 --> 00:24:07,394 Speaker 2: Oh I would too, but I would be the can't 521 00:24:07,394 --> 00:24:10,434 Speaker 2: get up a bit exactly. 522 00:24:10,794 --> 00:24:14,073 Speaker 1: So that's where we begin to see the romance blossom. 523 00:24:14,194 --> 00:24:16,234 Speaker 1: Like we know it's going to happen, right, and he's 524 00:24:16,274 --> 00:24:18,874 Speaker 1: hot and she's hot, and it doesn't take him too 525 00:24:18,874 --> 00:24:23,034 Speaker 1: long to declare his affection. No, but we feel about 526 00:24:23,034 --> 00:24:25,114 Speaker 1: it moves quite fast. 527 00:24:25,474 --> 00:24:27,994 Speaker 4: Had someone like with romance being quite fresh to me. 528 00:24:28,434 --> 00:24:31,554 Speaker 2: I quite liked and I knew that this was a formula, 529 00:24:31,914 --> 00:24:35,634 Speaker 2: but like the device of we can't and then it's 530 00:24:35,634 --> 00:24:38,834 Speaker 2: a kiss, and then we can't. We can't, but it 531 00:24:38,874 --> 00:24:41,554 Speaker 2: was just a hug but blah, but blah, and. 532 00:24:41,474 --> 00:24:45,554 Speaker 3: Then people in their thirties can be horny too, exactly, 533 00:24:45,874 --> 00:24:46,914 Speaker 3: it's not just for us twenty. 534 00:24:47,074 --> 00:24:52,114 Speaker 2: I really liked so the first kind of proper sex 535 00:24:52,194 --> 00:24:54,714 Speaker 2: in the storm. I thought the storm was right, like 536 00:24:55,074 --> 00:24:55,994 Speaker 2: natural disaster. 537 00:24:56,634 --> 00:24:57,954 Speaker 5: That was he comes to save her. 538 00:24:58,194 --> 00:25:00,274 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, but here's my consent. 539 00:25:01,034 --> 00:25:02,954 Speaker 1: He didn't need to save hers. She'd saved herself. She's 540 00:25:02,994 --> 00:25:05,434 Speaker 1: a modern heroine. No, she hadn't charged her phone, she 541 00:25:05,474 --> 00:25:07,634 Speaker 1: hadn't changed her phone, which is a problem. She knew 542 00:25:07,634 --> 00:25:09,234 Speaker 1: what to do. I like that she knew what to 543 00:25:09,234 --> 00:25:10,874 Speaker 1: do in the store to do, she got all the 544 00:25:10,874 --> 00:25:11,313 Speaker 1: things and she. 545 00:25:11,434 --> 00:25:13,674 Speaker 5: Was like, I respect that she got your clothes. 546 00:25:15,594 --> 00:25:17,314 Speaker 1: And then I love the fact that obviously this was 547 00:25:17,314 --> 00:25:18,954 Speaker 1: a device that like she was the one who really 548 00:25:18,954 --> 00:25:20,513 Speaker 1: wanted them to have sex, and he was this is 549 00:25:20,594 --> 00:25:24,513 Speaker 1: Very was the one Very And she's like, let's have sex, 550 00:25:24,554 --> 00:25:28,714 Speaker 1: and he's like, no, no, you much. 551 00:25:31,034 --> 00:25:33,754 Speaker 4: Never ever had that experience in my life. 552 00:25:33,914 --> 00:25:36,794 Speaker 5: I had that experience. I'm just here. 553 00:25:36,874 --> 00:25:40,874 Speaker 2: She's had this day, if my memory serves me correctly 554 00:25:41,034 --> 00:25:44,354 Speaker 2: interviewing Margaret, quite a sweaty, hot day. Then she gets 555 00:25:44,394 --> 00:25:46,874 Speaker 2: home and she decides, even though a storm's about to come, 556 00:25:46,914 --> 00:25:48,234 Speaker 2: that she's not going to have a shower, that she's 557 00:25:48,274 --> 00:25:51,074 Speaker 2: just going to wash her face right, And then he 558 00:25:51,154 --> 00:25:55,714 Speaker 2: comes over. I thought about this too, and also in 559 00:25:55,714 --> 00:25:57,674 Speaker 2: my head, I'm going, oh, no, you haven't had a shower. 560 00:25:57,834 --> 00:25:59,074 Speaker 5: Was what underwear are you wearing? 561 00:25:59,354 --> 00:26:01,033 Speaker 4: Because I know it's not the good pairs, it's not 562 00:26:01,034 --> 00:26:01,514 Speaker 4: the good pair. 563 00:26:01,634 --> 00:26:04,754 Speaker 2: And then the storm's over, and then he decides to 564 00:26:04,754 --> 00:26:05,674 Speaker 2: perform a sexual action. 565 00:26:05,714 --> 00:26:09,434 Speaker 1: I'm going, no, no, no, no, she's oh my god. 566 00:26:09,474 --> 00:26:15,114 Speaker 1: I didn't even think about it. Oh oft into it, 567 00:26:15,474 --> 00:26:15,914 Speaker 1: I was. 568 00:26:16,034 --> 00:26:19,194 Speaker 4: Like, no, honey, you need a minute. 569 00:26:19,994 --> 00:26:22,354 Speaker 1: Actually, the sex scene that I thought was hot, I 570 00:26:22,354 --> 00:26:24,594 Speaker 1: think it happens before that. But well, when they're in 571 00:26:24,594 --> 00:26:27,634 Speaker 1: the woods and he's like strong at the beach, like 572 00:26:27,834 --> 00:26:30,154 Speaker 1: I was like, that's hot, but like she didn't clarify 573 00:26:30,194 --> 00:26:32,554 Speaker 1: what position they were in, because I thought they were 574 00:26:32,594 --> 00:26:36,634 Speaker 1: standing at the beach and then suddenly they were spooning. 575 00:26:36,634 --> 00:26:40,594 Speaker 1: Because there's a lot of what when I was young 576 00:26:41,314 --> 00:26:43,714 Speaker 1: We used to call it frontage, which is like when 577 00:26:43,714 --> 00:26:45,754 Speaker 1: you're like not having sex, but you're having sex, you 578 00:26:45,794 --> 00:26:49,194 Speaker 1: or have been through the lots of Like, there's lots 579 00:26:49,234 --> 00:26:52,234 Speaker 1: of that, which I found quite hot. I didn't actually 580 00:26:52,274 --> 00:26:55,114 Speaker 1: find the sex scenes hot though, really not really no, 581 00:26:55,554 --> 00:26:57,994 Speaker 1: too many adjectives. There was a lot of adjective, very 582 00:26:57,994 --> 00:27:00,313 Speaker 1: hard to write sex. It's so even when he was 583 00:27:00,434 --> 00:27:04,914 Speaker 1: using her hand, that was kind of hot, but again 584 00:27:05,474 --> 00:27:06,754 Speaker 1: didn't quite Yeah. 585 00:27:07,274 --> 00:27:09,354 Speaker 4: Yeah, maybe we've lived too long. 586 00:27:10,234 --> 00:27:12,074 Speaker 3: I think it's because we went from our first book, 587 00:27:12,074 --> 00:27:13,394 Speaker 3: which had a literal tampon play. 588 00:27:13,754 --> 00:27:17,874 Speaker 2: Yeah, no, that's true, to this and I with the audiobook, 589 00:27:17,874 --> 00:27:20,914 Speaker 2: which apparently has won awards, and I have some notes, 590 00:27:21,714 --> 00:27:23,793 Speaker 2: but it was just the woman who was doing it 591 00:27:23,834 --> 00:27:28,234 Speaker 2: would be like, oh, like it was him like huffing 592 00:27:28,914 --> 00:27:31,434 Speaker 2: and put on this gravelly voice, and I was just 593 00:27:31,474 --> 00:27:34,033 Speaker 2: like I got the every time she did that. 594 00:27:34,114 --> 00:27:36,434 Speaker 1: So I have to say that I quite enjoyed the audiobook. 595 00:27:36,474 --> 00:27:38,074 Speaker 1: I think that's because I was doing the same. I 596 00:27:38,114 --> 00:27:39,874 Speaker 1: listened to some of it and the pace was good 597 00:27:39,874 --> 00:27:41,793 Speaker 1: on that. But you're right, you don't need to do 598 00:27:41,834 --> 00:27:44,954 Speaker 1: the man's voice. No, don't do the man's voices too distract. 599 00:27:44,794 --> 00:27:47,034 Speaker 4: Especially during the sex scenes. I found that a lot. 600 00:27:47,114 --> 00:27:50,394 Speaker 1: So when he's fully revealed to be the lovely, wonderful 601 00:27:50,394 --> 00:27:52,594 Speaker 1: man is as Jesse's already referenced when they go to 602 00:27:52,674 --> 00:27:55,794 Speaker 1: her mother's obviously, I am in love with the mother's house. 603 00:27:55,874 --> 00:27:57,594 Speaker 1: I just want to move in with the mom. She's 604 00:27:57,634 --> 00:28:00,273 Speaker 1: got me all the time, She's cooking lots of yummy, 605 00:28:00,274 --> 00:28:02,794 Speaker 1: healthy food. They're having a good time. Mom doesn't talk much. 606 00:28:03,154 --> 00:28:05,994 Speaker 1: Mom's very like closed off genexa. 607 00:28:06,234 --> 00:28:06,634 Speaker 4: Yeah. 608 00:28:06,674 --> 00:28:10,674 Speaker 1: And on the way home, he really does show his 609 00:28:10,754 --> 00:28:13,394 Speaker 1: hand as being the sensitive new age dude, the cinnamon 610 00:28:13,474 --> 00:28:15,834 Speaker 1: roll guy, because he's like, you need to talk to 611 00:28:15,874 --> 00:28:18,114 Speaker 1: your mom about how you feel about each other. I 612 00:28:18,114 --> 00:28:20,154 Speaker 1: don't agree, and she was like yes. 613 00:28:20,274 --> 00:28:22,553 Speaker 3: She was like, but no, I don't Exactually, you know 614 00:28:22,634 --> 00:28:25,394 Speaker 3: my mom for five seconds and you come into my bar. 615 00:28:25,594 --> 00:28:28,114 Speaker 5: Going you hang your mom? Tell me why exactly. 616 00:28:28,754 --> 00:28:31,074 Speaker 1: She's very proud of you. She just doesn't you need 617 00:28:31,114 --> 00:28:32,994 Speaker 1: to talk to her about it? No, what did you think? 618 00:28:33,154 --> 00:28:35,273 Speaker 4: The formula? And there was a point at which I 619 00:28:35,274 --> 00:28:40,034 Speaker 4: went did AI not write it? But help? Could this 620 00:28:40,114 --> 00:28:43,074 Speaker 4: be written by Ai? Is? 621 00:28:43,114 --> 00:28:45,554 Speaker 2: Because it got to a point and I went three 622 00:28:45,834 --> 00:28:51,034 Speaker 2: to one fight like there was that needed to happen. 623 00:28:51,074 --> 00:28:53,554 Speaker 2: It kind of needed to be inspired by her, probably 624 00:28:53,594 --> 00:28:56,474 Speaker 2: needed like chapter or two where they were a bit cold, 625 00:28:56,554 --> 00:28:59,514 Speaker 2: and then they would get back on with the natural disaster. 626 00:28:59,634 --> 00:29:02,394 Speaker 1: The thing is, Jesse, is that is literally a romance formula. 627 00:29:02,514 --> 00:29:03,994 Speaker 1: I talked about it on out Loud a while ago. 628 00:29:03,994 --> 00:29:06,314 Speaker 1: I went to a romance writing workshop. And you have 629 00:29:06,434 --> 00:29:08,954 Speaker 1: to do that. You've got the build to get together, 630 00:29:09,234 --> 00:29:13,474 Speaker 1: the obstacle, the fight, the separation, the resolution. Is there 631 00:29:13,514 --> 00:29:16,634 Speaker 1: anything wrong with that? That's the question. Because people love 632 00:29:16,754 --> 00:29:19,314 Speaker 1: these books and they know, like you know when on 633 00:29:19,354 --> 00:29:22,674 Speaker 1: the first minute you meet him, that those two are 634 00:29:22,714 --> 00:29:26,874 Speaker 1: going to be married by the and you know that. 635 00:29:26,994 --> 00:29:30,554 Speaker 1: But I don't think you're reading a book like this 636 00:29:30,794 --> 00:29:33,474 Speaker 1: for the surprise. You're reading it for the journey, like 637 00:29:33,554 --> 00:29:34,314 Speaker 1: you know what I am. 638 00:29:34,474 --> 00:29:37,674 Speaker 2: But I think that at this cultural moment, I am 639 00:29:37,954 --> 00:29:42,154 Speaker 2: resisting formula because of my terror towards AI, because I'm 640 00:29:42,194 --> 00:29:44,554 Speaker 2: going Emily Henry, who is releasing a book a year, 641 00:29:44,634 --> 00:29:48,194 Speaker 2: all of which are best sellers, and the publishing industry 642 00:29:48,234 --> 00:29:52,074 Speaker 2: needs one hundred more Emily Henry's like these could be 643 00:29:52,114 --> 00:29:53,714 Speaker 2: pumped out by a chat pot. 644 00:29:53,754 --> 00:29:55,914 Speaker 4: I truly believe that, I truly believe. 645 00:29:55,674 --> 00:29:59,154 Speaker 2: That that's one of the first genres that because there 646 00:29:59,234 --> 00:30:01,874 Speaker 2: is such formula, and say what you want about all 647 00:30:01,914 --> 00:30:03,594 Speaker 2: fours don't know what the. 648 00:30:03,674 --> 00:30:04,754 Speaker 4: Formula was there? 649 00:30:04,874 --> 00:30:06,154 Speaker 5: Who knew where that was going. 650 00:30:06,514 --> 00:30:08,594 Speaker 4: It's like the Netflix romance, which is. 651 00:30:08,514 --> 00:30:10,754 Speaker 1: What I love, like I have to not know, but 652 00:30:10,874 --> 00:30:14,274 Speaker 1: I can also see the appeal of nothing like being 653 00:30:14,634 --> 00:30:16,274 Speaker 1: safe in a happy ending. 654 00:30:16,194 --> 00:30:18,234 Speaker 2: Yeah, which is also what Netflix wants at the moment 655 00:30:18,274 --> 00:30:20,274 Speaker 2: with even like the Summer I Turned Pretty or whatever. 656 00:30:20,274 --> 00:30:23,354 Speaker 2: I wondered if it was similar genre wise to that. 657 00:30:23,434 --> 00:30:25,554 Speaker 1: There was a lot of wandering around in that too, 658 00:30:26,994 --> 00:30:30,794 Speaker 1: many many matches, many many ice lattes, and many many 659 00:30:30,834 --> 00:30:32,634 Speaker 1: We could have got this over within ten minutes. 660 00:30:32,714 --> 00:30:34,914 Speaker 4: Did they go for a lot of walks because there's 661 00:30:34,914 --> 00:30:36,594 Speaker 4: a lot of walks. 662 00:30:36,914 --> 00:30:39,114 Speaker 1: There's a lot of walks, Jane Austin, But you love 663 00:30:39,154 --> 00:30:40,874 Speaker 1: these books, and why do you love a happy ending? 664 00:30:41,034 --> 00:30:44,514 Speaker 3: I think because exactly what you said, I know exactly 665 00:30:44,674 --> 00:30:46,154 Speaker 3: what I'm going to get out of it, so it's 666 00:30:46,154 --> 00:30:49,714 Speaker 3: always a safe read for me, whereas there sometimes where 667 00:30:49,754 --> 00:30:53,234 Speaker 3: I'll be reading I think it was Long Island Compromise. 668 00:30:53,834 --> 00:30:57,074 Speaker 5: I read that is that is a yes, but it's 669 00:30:57,074 --> 00:30:58,354 Speaker 5: called Long Island Compromise. 670 00:30:58,554 --> 00:30:59,834 Speaker 4: It sounds like it's going to be fun. 671 00:30:59,834 --> 00:31:01,114 Speaker 3: It sounds like it's going to be a beech read. 672 00:31:01,194 --> 00:31:02,834 Speaker 3: So I took it to the beach and I read it, 673 00:31:03,034 --> 00:31:05,034 Speaker 3: and it ruined my whole family holiday because I was 674 00:31:05,074 --> 00:31:07,874 Speaker 3: just so closed off from everyone. And I think these 675 00:31:07,874 --> 00:31:10,554 Speaker 3: week with Emily Henry, like she's a safe author where 676 00:31:10,874 --> 00:31:13,434 Speaker 3: if we were to take this to our family holiday, 677 00:31:13,474 --> 00:31:15,394 Speaker 3: we know exactly what we're going to get out of 678 00:31:15,434 --> 00:31:17,634 Speaker 3: it and still feel good because we're reading a book. 679 00:31:17,634 --> 00:31:20,914 Speaker 1: It's a perfect summer read, like that's often been dismissed 680 00:31:21,034 --> 00:31:25,394 Speaker 1: like beach reads, summer reads, holiday reads, and women's fiction 681 00:31:25,514 --> 00:31:28,754 Speaker 1: is dismissed anyway. And she's written about that herself and said, 682 00:31:28,914 --> 00:31:30,794 Speaker 1: you know, if all the characters in my books were men, 683 00:31:31,034 --> 00:31:33,074 Speaker 1: they would be viewed differently. And I think that's true. 684 00:31:33,634 --> 00:31:35,594 Speaker 1: There's nothing wrong with that as long as you know 685 00:31:35,634 --> 00:31:38,034 Speaker 1: what you're getting in my opinion, like I don't think. 686 00:31:38,194 --> 00:31:39,074 Speaker 4: So what do you think? 687 00:31:39,074 --> 00:31:41,794 Speaker 2: And this has been discussed online and something that I 688 00:31:41,874 --> 00:31:43,354 Speaker 2: pondered when I finished it, What do you think this 689 00:31:43,394 --> 00:31:44,394 Speaker 2: book is about? 690 00:31:45,034 --> 00:31:48,074 Speaker 1: So? I think it's about family, and I think it's 691 00:31:48,114 --> 00:31:52,674 Speaker 1: about loss, like it's about our girl Alice, although she's 692 00:31:52,754 --> 00:31:56,274 Speaker 1: very perky. She's still grieving loss of her dad relatively recently. 693 00:31:56,314 --> 00:31:58,274 Speaker 1: And there's always if a character in a book has 694 00:31:58,314 --> 00:32:02,194 Speaker 1: lost a parent, they were always perfect, always yeah, unless 695 00:32:02,194 --> 00:32:04,874 Speaker 1: it's a different kind of book altogether. And so she's 696 00:32:04,914 --> 00:32:07,234 Speaker 1: losing her dad to whom she was very close. The 697 00:32:07,314 --> 00:32:11,114 Speaker 1: thing that I found was weirdly unresolved was there's also 698 00:32:11,194 --> 00:32:13,474 Speaker 1: a lot of references to her sister and her sister's 699 00:32:13,634 --> 00:32:16,194 Speaker 1: illness when she was young. I was so expecting to 700 00:32:16,194 --> 00:32:18,234 Speaker 1: meet the sister at some point in this book. I'm like, 701 00:32:18,594 --> 00:32:20,554 Speaker 1: why am I finding out so much about this sister 702 00:32:20,594 --> 00:32:22,634 Speaker 1: if she's never going to wander into the plot. She doesn't. 703 00:32:22,714 --> 00:32:23,834 Speaker 1: She doesn't turn up, does she. 704 00:32:24,154 --> 00:32:28,994 Speaker 2: I think that that was about sibling dynamics, and so 705 00:32:29,154 --> 00:32:31,834 Speaker 2: was Lily obviously, yes, Laura, yeah. 706 00:32:31,754 --> 00:32:32,474 Speaker 1: Laura, yeah. 707 00:32:32,514 --> 00:32:34,554 Speaker 2: And in that way, I think it's a book about love, 708 00:32:34,594 --> 00:32:37,954 Speaker 2: but she broadened it out from romantic love, because even 709 00:32:38,474 --> 00:32:40,954 Speaker 2: from every generation in that family, it was about the 710 00:32:40,994 --> 00:32:43,034 Speaker 2: type of love they had for their wife, or the 711 00:32:43,074 --> 00:32:45,154 Speaker 2: type of love they had for their child, or the 712 00:32:45,194 --> 00:32:48,874 Speaker 2: type of even Laura's devotion to her grandfather and all 713 00:32:48,914 --> 00:32:52,794 Speaker 2: these complications and like the idea of a love that 714 00:32:52,834 --> 00:32:55,394 Speaker 2: you'd give anything for and how sometimes that's a sister 715 00:32:55,594 --> 00:32:56,314 Speaker 2: or that's it. 716 00:32:56,394 --> 00:32:59,114 Speaker 3: And Alison Hayden like they were both the younger sibling 717 00:32:59,194 --> 00:33:03,594 Speaker 3: with older siblings and their parents both really like their 718 00:33:03,594 --> 00:33:05,714 Speaker 3: older siblings, and they felt like they were kind of 719 00:33:05,794 --> 00:33:07,114 Speaker 3: left out in that comparis. 720 00:33:07,674 --> 00:33:10,674 Speaker 1: It's interesting Jesse, because of course it is about love. 721 00:33:10,834 --> 00:33:12,754 Speaker 1: And she tells us that at the end, because that's 722 00:33:12,754 --> 00:33:15,714 Speaker 1: the book that Alice is writing, where she's like, all 723 00:33:15,714 --> 00:33:17,634 Speaker 1: I ever want to write about is love. But like 724 00:33:18,234 --> 00:33:20,234 Speaker 1: every book in a way is about love, like in 725 00:33:20,314 --> 00:33:21,554 Speaker 1: some four. 726 00:33:21,474 --> 00:33:23,474 Speaker 2: Can I be honest, I don't want to read Alice's 727 00:33:23,514 --> 00:33:25,794 Speaker 2: book about life and her parents. 728 00:33:26,954 --> 00:33:28,314 Speaker 4: This pitch is not. 729 00:33:28,594 --> 00:33:30,674 Speaker 1: But you know what I did like and I know 730 00:33:30,714 --> 00:33:33,314 Speaker 1: that this just speaks to me. I was quite happy 731 00:33:33,314 --> 00:33:34,874 Speaker 1: with where they ended up. I'd like to know what 732 00:33:34,914 --> 00:33:36,634 Speaker 1: em thinks about this. I was quite happy that she 733 00:33:36,674 --> 00:33:39,074 Speaker 1: didn't go back to la I was quite happy that 734 00:33:39,114 --> 00:33:41,394 Speaker 1: they moved to Atlanta and she was hanging out at 735 00:33:41,434 --> 00:33:44,394 Speaker 1: her mom's house. I liked all that. Did we like that? 736 00:33:44,594 --> 00:33:45,154 Speaker 1: Did we like what? 737 00:33:45,274 --> 00:33:47,354 Speaker 3: Did I find the ending satisfying? Or did you wanted 738 00:33:47,354 --> 00:33:48,954 Speaker 3: to go back to being? That's the thing with the 739 00:33:49,074 --> 00:33:52,314 Speaker 3: second storyline. I feel like if we didn't have Margaret's storyline, 740 00:33:52,714 --> 00:33:56,394 Speaker 3: we would have more room to play with Hayden and 741 00:33:56,474 --> 00:33:59,034 Speaker 3: Alice because then for me, like all the time they 742 00:33:59,034 --> 00:34:02,034 Speaker 3: had sex ones, like he learned this whole big thing 743 00:34:02,074 --> 00:34:04,354 Speaker 3: about his family history and the first thing he asks 744 00:34:04,394 --> 00:34:05,794 Speaker 3: her is like, do you actually love me? 745 00:34:05,954 --> 00:34:10,154 Speaker 6: Yes, But that's because baby in the next page named 746 00:34:10,194 --> 00:34:14,994 Speaker 6: after the cult sister, which I thought was a little 747 00:34:15,034 --> 00:34:16,194 Speaker 6: bit too much visual. 748 00:34:16,594 --> 00:34:19,434 Speaker 1: Yeah, oh, I didn't mind that because I didn't really 749 00:34:19,474 --> 00:34:21,594 Speaker 1: need to like read all about them getting back to 750 00:34:21,634 --> 00:34:24,554 Speaker 1: get like that was fine. We only got one proper 751 00:34:24,674 --> 00:34:28,274 Speaker 1: sex scene, like as in the preditative sex scene, and 752 00:34:28,314 --> 00:34:31,834 Speaker 1: there was there were too many you. Yeah, he did 753 00:34:31,874 --> 00:34:34,674 Speaker 1: get a going to be safe, I know, which is 754 00:34:34,714 --> 00:34:36,034 Speaker 1: great and I'm all for it. 755 00:34:36,154 --> 00:34:38,114 Speaker 3: But it's which is also a plot twist because then 756 00:34:38,114 --> 00:34:39,434 Speaker 3: they have the baby. 757 00:34:39,754 --> 00:34:42,674 Speaker 1: I think they've had sex later Yeah, but yeah, when 758 00:34:42,674 --> 00:34:44,714 Speaker 1: he turns up at the door and you think he's 759 00:34:44,754 --> 00:34:46,554 Speaker 1: going to talk about the family, but he's He's like, 760 00:34:46,674 --> 00:34:48,993 Speaker 1: that's all sorted. Me and Margaret have sorted that out. 761 00:34:49,354 --> 00:34:50,674 Speaker 1: I just need to know if you love me. And 762 00:34:51,274 --> 00:34:52,953 Speaker 1: it was like the letter and I'm like, what letter? 763 00:34:52,954 --> 00:34:53,913 Speaker 1: I didn't know about the letter. 764 00:34:53,954 --> 00:34:54,554 Speaker 5: I don't know about that. 765 00:34:54,834 --> 00:34:57,913 Speaker 3: She did write a letter, didn't know who was too. 766 00:34:57,994 --> 00:35:00,913 Speaker 3: But also before that, she finds out this huge thing 767 00:35:00,954 --> 00:35:03,554 Speaker 3: about his family and she starts to fight with him. 768 00:35:03,674 --> 00:35:05,954 Speaker 4: Yeah, that was weird. I would have just broken. 769 00:35:07,314 --> 00:35:09,474 Speaker 1: Though. That was a genuine dilemma. Don't you think what 770 00:35:09,514 --> 00:35:13,234 Speaker 1: you do? So she finds out that, as Jesse picked 771 00:35:13,234 --> 00:35:18,114 Speaker 1: on page four that Margaret is Hayden's grandma, she gave 772 00:35:18,154 --> 00:35:21,034 Speaker 1: up a child for adoption. I did think, Look, I 773 00:35:21,074 --> 00:35:23,114 Speaker 1: know that you're famous. In the paparazzi, you're annoying, but 774 00:35:23,154 --> 00:35:25,554 Speaker 1: they so annoying you're giving a child away, That's what 775 00:35:25,554 --> 00:35:25,953 Speaker 1: I mean. 776 00:35:26,034 --> 00:35:28,674 Speaker 3: I think the paparazzi has done so well in Taylor 777 00:35:28,714 --> 00:35:33,474 Speaker 3: Jenkins read and I needed more paparazzi hounding decision. 778 00:35:35,834 --> 00:35:38,194 Speaker 1: But like I got it, But lots of famous, rich 779 00:35:38,234 --> 00:35:40,393 Speaker 1: people have children. You just build a wall around them, 780 00:35:40,434 --> 00:35:40,953 Speaker 1: like you know. 781 00:35:41,514 --> 00:35:44,954 Speaker 4: Yes, But then her and Cosmo or whatever is Cosmo. 782 00:35:45,434 --> 00:35:46,914 Speaker 5: I also thought Cecil was Cosmo. 783 00:35:46,994 --> 00:35:47,474 Speaker 1: The whole. 784 00:35:50,154 --> 00:35:56,194 Speaker 2: Joking, I don't know, but I did think that they're resisted, 785 00:35:56,354 --> 00:35:58,634 Speaker 2: like the fact that he hated them so much and 786 00:35:58,634 --> 00:36:00,754 Speaker 2: that kind of claimed his life. I thought that that 787 00:36:00,874 --> 00:36:05,553 Speaker 2: act of ultimate sacrifice was like this act of love 788 00:36:05,754 --> 00:36:08,674 Speaker 2: that I thought it worked for me. 789 00:36:09,394 --> 00:36:12,913 Speaker 1: So then when she finds all that out, and she's like, well, 790 00:36:13,234 --> 00:36:16,553 Speaker 1: my choices here are. I can either tell the money 791 00:36:16,554 --> 00:36:18,953 Speaker 1: I love that I know all these secrets about him 792 00:36:19,154 --> 00:36:21,554 Speaker 1: and maybe Margaret will sue me for millions of dollars. 793 00:36:22,314 --> 00:36:24,274 Speaker 1: Or I can break up with him and lose the 794 00:36:24,274 --> 00:36:25,994 Speaker 1: love of my life and go live with my mom. 795 00:36:27,154 --> 00:36:28,634 Speaker 4: I could just be with him and not tell him 796 00:36:28,674 --> 00:36:29,994 Speaker 4: the secret, and that it would. 797 00:36:29,754 --> 00:36:32,714 Speaker 1: Be very hard, yeah, because he's going to be like, 798 00:36:32,754 --> 00:36:36,994 Speaker 1: why what with the book? I don't understand, like blah, like, yeah, 799 00:36:37,074 --> 00:36:39,794 Speaker 1: she told him. She should have told him, because I 800 00:36:39,874 --> 00:36:42,714 Speaker 1: reckon that what I love is I probably would have 801 00:36:42,754 --> 00:36:44,953 Speaker 1: told him. And then between you, you could probably talk 802 00:36:44,994 --> 00:36:47,114 Speaker 1: Margaret out of suing you. Is Margaret really going to 803 00:36:47,194 --> 00:36:48,913 Speaker 1: sue you? Is she really taking you all the way 804 00:36:48,954 --> 00:36:50,794 Speaker 1: to court and sitting in a court room to go 805 00:36:50,834 --> 00:36:51,314 Speaker 1: through all this. 806 00:36:51,354 --> 00:36:53,154 Speaker 4: On the public record and she's trying to be private. 807 00:36:53,234 --> 00:36:56,873 Speaker 3: Yeah, we needed a lawyer in this book to sort 808 00:36:56,914 --> 00:36:57,954 Speaker 3: this out exactly. 809 00:36:58,554 --> 00:36:58,994 Speaker 1: Okay. 810 00:36:59,154 --> 00:37:03,394 Speaker 2: I want to know what the out louders thought of Great, Big, 811 00:37:03,474 --> 00:37:05,834 Speaker 2: Beautiful Life. I saw a few comments saying I love this. 812 00:37:05,914 --> 00:37:08,114 Speaker 2: I can't wait to hear you talk about it, and 813 00:37:08,154 --> 00:37:10,714 Speaker 2: it is I feel like Emily Henry. If you are 814 00:37:10,714 --> 00:37:13,513 Speaker 2: going away and you just need escapism and you need 815 00:37:13,554 --> 00:37:15,554 Speaker 2: to know that your book isn't going to come with 816 00:37:15,594 --> 00:37:18,954 Speaker 2: a side of trauma, then probably you're Emily Henry. 817 00:37:18,954 --> 00:37:19,834 Speaker 4: Books are a great thing. 818 00:37:19,914 --> 00:37:20,393 Speaker 5: Oh my god. 819 00:37:20,434 --> 00:37:23,354 Speaker 3: Funny Story is I reckon? This book sits in between 820 00:37:23,394 --> 00:37:26,034 Speaker 3: the other two. I read so funny story, this one 821 00:37:26,234 --> 00:37:27,074 Speaker 3: and then Happy Place. 822 00:37:27,394 --> 00:37:29,434 Speaker 4: Okay, I might get onto funny story. 823 00:37:29,754 --> 00:37:32,513 Speaker 1: I was definitely swept away by the end. Like it 824 00:37:32,514 --> 00:37:34,714 Speaker 1: took me a while, as I said, and I was like, okay, 825 00:37:34,754 --> 00:37:36,994 Speaker 1: the pace is a little bit clunky for me. But 826 00:37:37,034 --> 00:37:38,954 Speaker 1: by the end, I was like, come on, I'm getting 827 00:37:38,954 --> 00:37:40,474 Speaker 1: it together. Come on, tell me what happened. 828 00:37:40,514 --> 00:37:41,714 Speaker 5: People just love hot people. 829 00:37:41,834 --> 00:37:44,114 Speaker 1: And they were both very hot and very tall. There 830 00:37:44,154 --> 00:37:46,274 Speaker 1: was lots of discussion of how tall they both are. 831 00:37:46,434 --> 00:37:47,634 Speaker 4: Probably watch an adaptation. 832 00:37:48,074 --> 00:37:50,073 Speaker 1: I would watch an adaptation for sure. 833 00:37:50,114 --> 00:37:51,354 Speaker 4: Out louders, thanks for being. 834 00:37:51,634 --> 00:37:52,433 Speaker 1: Lord, wasn't it? 835 00:37:52,594 --> 00:37:53,114 Speaker 2: Oh? 836 00:37:53,354 --> 00:37:55,194 Speaker 1: Yeah? Is he bit young? Well he's not going to 837 00:37:55,194 --> 00:37:57,154 Speaker 1: be in it, is he? Because it's probably not. But 838 00:37:57,314 --> 00:37:59,594 Speaker 1: he's very tall. 839 00:37:59,874 --> 00:38:00,514 Speaker 4: That's true. 840 00:38:00,674 --> 00:38:01,314 Speaker 1: That's true. 841 00:38:01,474 --> 00:38:02,394 Speaker 4: Who she though. 842 00:38:04,154 --> 00:38:07,594 Speaker 2: I always wear skirts like a blonde Dakota Johnson. 843 00:38:07,834 --> 00:38:09,274 Speaker 1: Yeah, she could be Sydney Sweeney. 844 00:38:09,794 --> 00:38:10,994 Speaker 5: Oh she's too small. 845 00:38:11,474 --> 00:38:13,114 Speaker 4: Oh I think she's too short. 846 00:38:13,234 --> 00:38:14,794 Speaker 1: Yeah, she could be Emily Venon. 847 00:38:16,314 --> 00:38:19,194 Speaker 4: Emily, I'm Jocoberlordie out loudest. 848 00:38:19,194 --> 00:38:22,074 Speaker 2: Thanks for being a part of our second summer book club. 849 00:38:22,194 --> 00:38:24,834 Speaker 2: A reminder that the next book we are reading as 850 00:38:24,874 --> 00:38:27,874 Speaker 2: part of this book club is Mela Luka by Angie 851 00:38:28,034 --> 00:38:32,194 Speaker 2: Fay Martin. It is an Australian debut fiction book that 852 00:38:32,274 --> 00:38:36,274 Speaker 2: came out this year and there has been so much 853 00:38:36,514 --> 00:38:39,354 Speaker 2: buzz we have all been desperate. It has been the 854 00:38:39,354 --> 00:38:41,394 Speaker 2: top of our to be read piles. 855 00:38:41,994 --> 00:38:44,794 Speaker 1: It's a mystery, so we are adding a mystery to 856 00:38:44,994 --> 00:38:48,634 Speaker 1: our yup Tampong Gate Beach read mystery. 857 00:38:48,274 --> 00:38:48,954 Speaker 4: Bit of crime. 858 00:38:49,074 --> 00:38:52,114 Speaker 2: So a brutal murder, a shameful past, a reckoning to come. 859 00:38:52,754 --> 00:38:55,834 Speaker 2: And it is written, as we said, by Angie Fay Martin, 860 00:38:55,874 --> 00:39:00,393 Speaker 2: who is a writer and editor Australian. I just am 861 00:39:00,794 --> 00:39:02,994 Speaker 2: very keen to get into that. So that can be 862 00:39:03,034 --> 00:39:07,474 Speaker 2: your other summer read. Very very different tonally to Emily Henry, absolutely. 863 00:39:07,154 --> 00:39:10,234 Speaker 1: I can't wait. Happy reading. Friends, tell us what we 864 00:39:10,274 --> 00:39:17,954 Speaker 1: got right and wrong? About m Hen Bye Bye Mamma. 865 00:39:17,994 --> 00:39:20,873 Speaker 1: Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of the land on which 866 00:39:20,874 --> 00:39:22,994 Speaker 1: we've recorded this podcast.