Speaker 1: Out louders, This is Mamma Mia out loud what women
Speaker 1: are actually talking about. And we are also the number
Speaker 1: one show in Australia for the third month in a row.
Speaker 1: Brad goes wild.
Speaker 2: We have become insufferable.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we're just walking around telling everyone this fact.
Speaker 4: They call us Australia's answer to show Brogan, the Australia's
Speaker 4: answered to call her daddy. Oh they do, they really do.
Speaker 1: I don't know they deal in common with Alex Hooper anyway.
Speaker 1: What happened is is that as regular outluders will know
Speaker 1: once a month that a chart gets released that show
Speaker 1: is the most listened to shows, not necessarily the most downloads,
Speaker 1: it's the most number of listeners, right. And we made
Speaker 1: a joke when we were when we made it to
Speaker 1: number one for the first time in January that it
Speaker 1: was only because Hamish Nandy had gone on holiday. There
Speaker 1: are nemesis, nemesi memesi. I don't know if that's a word, nemeside.
Speaker 1: But now it's been three months running and they are
Speaker 1: back and they are firing and we are still number one,
Speaker 1: and it's only because of you out Loud as we
Speaker 1: know that, thank you, we are so proud. I'm Holly
Speaker 1: Wayne Wright, I'm Emelia Last and I'm Chlestians. And here's
Speaker 1: what's made our agenda for today, the redemption of David Harper. Yes,
Speaker 1: the man who Lily Allen outed as a butt plug
Speaker 1: enthusiast is now one of the most loved characters on television.
Speaker 1: We unpack.
Speaker 3: Plus we're unpacking why it can feel weird when your
Speaker 3: coworker compliments your outfit.
Speaker 4: And Reese Witherspoon is encouraging people to use AI, specifically women.
Speaker 4: She thinks we're behind Why is everyone so mad at
Speaker 4: her advice?
Speaker 1: But first, in case you missed it, I'm bringing you
Speaker 1: some scurrilous gossip that you may well have missed because
Speaker 1: none of this is important, not even a little bit important,
Speaker 1: but we've been yapping about it in the kitchen today,
Speaker 1: so we thought we'd extend the app to the show
Speaker 1: Little Rundown of Gossip. First up, unless you have successfully
Speaker 1: locked your phone in a safe, which obviously we would
Speaker 1: buys certain periods of the day, you would know that
Speaker 1: the devil was prior of two is out next week.
Speaker 4: Even if you had locked your phone in a safe.
Speaker 4: I was driving yesterday and looked beside me on a
Speaker 4: bus huge, but I was like, that is the biggest
Speaker 4: billboard for a movie I've seen years.
Speaker 2: I got my tickets ready to go.
Speaker 1: I can't wait. Are you going next week? Or she'll
Speaker 1: be able to give us the first rundown. Anyway, everybody
Speaker 1: wanted to be in this reboot because reboots are hot.
Speaker 1: We love existing Ip and Hathaway, Meryl Streep, Stanley Tucci
Speaker 1: was not to like Gaga makes a cameo in it,
Speaker 1: Naomi Campbell makes a cameo in it, Natella the Such
Speaker 1: he makes a cameo in it, but not all the
Speaker 1: cameos that were filmed made the cup. Sydney Sweeney had
Speaker 1: hers taken out. Apparently.
Speaker 4: I always think about how devastating this would be as
Speaker 4: an actor to have like turned up, got your hair
Speaker 4: and makeup done, learnt lines filmed, and then have it
Speaker 4: cut out. It's quite the ego, Bruce well He apparently.
Speaker 1: Entertainment Weekly reported that Sidney Sweeney filmed roughly a three
Speaker 1: minute scene near the top of the movie where she
Speaker 1: played herself being dressed for an event by Emily Blunt's character,
Speaker 1: who's now running Dior's US operations. Spoilers, but according to
Speaker 1: a source, the scene did not work structurally with the
Speaker 1: real rest of the sequence and it had to go.
Speaker 3: There's a fun podcast, Vogue US podcast about interviewing three
Speaker 3: of Anna's recent former assistants about how accurate the movie
Speaker 3: is to actually being her assistant, and one to bit
Speaker 3: I took from it is that there is a twenty
Speaker 3: one page manual for her assistance.
Speaker 1: Oh wow, that's a long man I have to say.
Speaker 4: I love emanual though it's like it's all written here.
Speaker 4: I reckon. She goes through them so greatly. It's like
Speaker 4: I need to it all down for training.
Speaker 3: But life is divided into two camps of people. People
Speaker 3: who like manuals and people who don't.
Speaker 1: Like I would be putting it to the sad work
Speaker 1: it out.
Speaker 2: You would not be a good assistance.
Speaker 1: I'll definitely like that anyway. Our Laura Brodnick, who host
Speaker 1: on the Spell Entertainment grew up Mamma May. It was
Speaker 1: the jammy person from Mamma Mia who got to fly
Speaker 1: to Korea to interview Merrill and Anne and all the
Speaker 1: stars because that's where the Australian junkit went. Asked Merrill,
Speaker 1: I guess what she does have in common with Miranda Priestley,
Speaker 1: and she revealed a bit of that and also said
Speaker 1: that not only Sydney Sweeney, but she got cut to I.
Speaker 4: Wanted to ask you both, was there a particular request
Speaker 4: that you put in that you wanted for your characters
Speaker 4: in order to do this equal Well.
Speaker 5: I don't know. I always try to hurl my weight
Speaker 5: around in these issues, but I didn't have any any
Speaker 5: improvements to make on the script. I thought it came
Speaker 5: to me just as fully formed and wonderful. Of course
Speaker 5: I was cut out of quite a bit of it, but.
Speaker 6: I think that the whole arc of the character made
Speaker 6: so much sense to me in this version.
Speaker 5: I loved what.
Speaker 6: Ellen had pictured as the dilemma that Miranda faces facing
Speaker 6: the digitalization of media.
Speaker 5: So there's cut scenes of Miranda Priestley that we might
Speaker 5: not see. Oh yes, I'm sure if they have a
Speaker 5: DVD anymore.
Speaker 1: Okay, moving on to more scoreless nonsense. My good friend
Speaker 1: Harry Styles may be engaged.
Speaker 4: What what's the evidence? Because I've seen a headline and
Speaker 4: is this just like a random piece of unsubstantiated gossip.
Speaker 1: You know, he's going out with Zoe Kravitz, who is
Speaker 1: awesome in every way. They've been doing what they do best,
Speaker 1: which is they walk around European cities in baseball caps
Speaker 1: and big coats, looking really cool holding coffee. That's what
Speaker 1: they did.
Speaker 2: I mean, isn't that what any of us.
Speaker 1: Were doing in the latest pictures of them doing that?
Speaker 1: Though she's barely able to hold her coffee cup from
Speaker 1: the weight of the diamond rock on that finger.
Speaker 2: Ah, that's a choice.
Speaker 1: So lots of people are like, oh, but I just
Speaker 1: like to imagine that celebrities who have a lot of
Speaker 1: rings to choose from just get up some mornings and
Speaker 1: think I'm going to fuck with them. Let's just put
Speaker 1: this ring on this finger today and wander about a bit,
Speaker 1: get oversized coffees, and just see what happens.
Speaker 4: I think they're throwing a bone to the media generally.
Speaker 4: They're like, times are tough for you guys, so I'll
Speaker 4: put on a ring, give you some headlines, and we're
Speaker 4: all like, thank you.
Speaker 1: They need some clicks. And finally, we do not endorse
Speaker 1: paparazzi imagery, even though that's where we show the rock.
Speaker 4: So I didn't see saw.
Speaker 1: Sorry, I'm the trash one. Here, we all know that
Speaker 1: we do not endorse paparazzi imagery, et cetera. And yet
Speaker 1: it's good to see that the papwalk is alive. And well,
Speaker 1: this morning I saw what we might call a pap
Speaker 1: frolic all over my internets, which is Kim Kardashian and
Speaker 1: Emily Vernham's good friend Lewis Hamilton in Malibu, basically like
Speaker 1: living their best lives. She's wearing a wetsuit, although it
Speaker 1: could be a new Skim's evening gown because let's face it,
Speaker 1: very similar Vine. She's wearing a wetsuit. They're like running
Speaker 1: into the waves. They're cuddling each other. This is a
Speaker 1: hard papaatte.
Speaker 3: So sorry, isn't this this is Wednesday today?
Speaker 4: Right? So were they doing this.
Speaker 2: On a Tuesday?
Speaker 4: Kim have a business to run and you need to
Speaker 4: study for your law because, as she passed.
Speaker 1: Here, your children fifteen children exactly. So I'm in awe
Speaker 1: of this Tuesday frolic. But my question is why still
Speaker 1: do And so the pictures from my once well trained
Speaker 1: eye look very set up like they're very good pap shots,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, why would you do that? In this
Speaker 1: day and age when you're Kimkard rather than just post
Speaker 1: the selfie, like why wouldn't her and Louis just be
Speaker 1: like great day down at Malibu post rather than pretend
Speaker 1: they've been crept up on. I think her and Lewis
Speaker 1: ready to go fully public. They've been teasing. There's been
Speaker 1: like a little bit of soft launching with like a
Speaker 1: bit of Lewis's hand on her shoulder and a car,
Speaker 1: a bit of this and that on her Instagram, I mean,
Speaker 1: on her official channels. They're ready to hard launch. Maybe
Speaker 1: appearing like they've been busted rather than like a going
Speaker 1: full hard launch is like.
Speaker 2: No' very mindful, very demure.
Speaker 1: Yes, it's like a semi hard launch.
Speaker 4: Yeah. Last week, Reese Witherspoon posted a video to her
Speaker 4: thirty million Instagram followers encouraging women in particular to embrace aar.
Speaker 1: Only thirty million. I've come on, Reese, it's like thirty
Speaker 1: points see wow.
Speaker 4: So her Instagram caption read, the AI revolution has begun
Speaker 4: and I need to learn as much as I possibly
Speaker 4: can about AI and share it with all of you.
Speaker 4: She also said in the caption the jobs women hold
Speaker 4: are three times more likely to be automated. By AI,
Speaker 4: Yet women are using AI at a rate twenty five
Speaker 4: percent lower than men on average. In the video, she's
Speaker 4: making this movie in her kitchen, and this is what
Speaker 4: she says.
Speaker 5: I think it's time to learn about AI.
Speaker 7: I was with ten women at a book club yesterday
Speaker 7: and I said to the ten of them, how many
Speaker 7: of you guys use AI?
Speaker 5: And only three of them used AI?
Speaker 7: And then I said, how many of the three of
Speaker 7: you feel like you really know what you're doing or
Speaker 7: they're using it the right way?
Speaker 5: And that was only one person.
Speaker 7: So if three out of ten women are the only
Speaker 7: ones using AI, that means seventy percent of that group
Speaker 7: is not keeping up. The thing I've learned about technology
Speaker 7: is if you don't get a little bit of understanding
Speaker 7: from the very beginning, it just speeds past you.
Speaker 1: The math smart Now.
Speaker 4: I bet your last chat to VTA for.
Speaker 1: The percentage.
Speaker 3: I was complaining about Kim frolicking and Malibu. I kind
Speaker 3: of wish all celebrities are just frolic tuesdays.
Speaker 1: Right, fiddling with their blender and talking to us about AAR.
Speaker 3: I know.
Speaker 4: So the big question about this has been I mean,
Speaker 4: for one, the backlash was pretty immediate people very annoyed
Speaker 4: in the comments, saying things like this sounds like a
Speaker 4: script from tech Bros. Or podcast Bros. It sounds like
Speaker 4: a commercial. So there was questions about whether it was
Speaker 4: an undisclosed ad, even though I'm like, it wouldn't be
Speaker 4: a very good ad because it's just for AI as
Speaker 4: a concept.
Speaker 2: Also, is this a.
Speaker 3: Book group that she like appeared in as a guest
Speaker 3: or is this like her and Hilary Duff I, like
Speaker 3: Renees el Worker getting together to talk about the secret?
Speaker 1: Yes, is this book club? Everybody? We all know about that,
Speaker 1: But there.
Speaker 4: Were only thirty people in it. Sorry, there are only
Speaker 4: ten people.
Speaker 1: I think it's a very exclusive group.
Speaker 4: Okay, I want to be in that book club. There
Speaker 4: was another comment that said, I think it's okay not
Speaker 4: to keep up with men on everything murder, violence, technology,
Speaker 4: but rots brains. But I My first thought when I
Speaker 4: saw this, and especially the fact that Reese spoke about
Speaker 4: it in the context of a book club, was there
Speaker 4: has been so much controversy in the book world about
Speaker 4: AI and the fact that there are now you know,
Speaker 4: potentially entire books written by AI, that books have been
Speaker 4: pulled from shelves. When we found out that the authors
Speaker 4: of USDAI book covers all of that. I thought, Oh,
Speaker 4: pairing book club with are you using enough AI? Is
Speaker 4: kind of on the nose. But Holly, did you feel
Speaker 4: personally attached?
Speaker 1: So I saw this in the wild because obviously I
Speaker 1: follow Reese Witherspoon, and I came across it, like, what's
Speaker 1: Ree's here to tell me about today? I thought she
Speaker 1: was going to maybe give me a smoothie recipe.
Speaker 4: I know it was misleading or indeed.
Speaker 1: A book recommendation, because many of her book recommendations are excellent.
Speaker 1: And so I was like, mister similar, little bit strange.
Speaker 1: Why why is Reese Witherspoon telling me to use AI?
Speaker 1: So I asked my robot. I went to the robot
Speaker 1: and I said, why would this be the case? And
Speaker 1: guess what. The generation who would make up most of
Speaker 1: Reese Witherspoon's followers, which would probably be people around my
Speaker 1: age and women in their forties, their fifties and beyond
Speaker 1: who you know, they watched her in Sweet Home, Alabama.
Speaker 1: They they love her, right, She's a trusted voice to them.
Speaker 1: We are the slowest adopters of AI, particularly the women
Speaker 1: of that age and the robot helpfully gave me this
Speaker 1: information with a little picture to represent us of a tortoise.
Speaker 1: There's a little picture of a tortoise, and it said
Speaker 1: the slowest adopters, they might as well have gone. No
Speaker 1: Boomers and gen X. There is a significant generation or divide.
Speaker 1: Roughly fifty percent of boomers do not use AI at all,
Speaker 1: and sixty eight percent of total non users come from
Speaker 1: gen X or Boomer cohorts. So Reese is talking directly
Speaker 1: to AI's target mark because AI, and you're right, it's
Speaker 1: not one thing, it's lots of companies. But still they
Speaker 1: want everybody to be on board with the robots, not
Speaker 1: just a few people. And so who would you get
Speaker 1: the robots are canny? Who do you get to convince
Speaker 1: people that you are not, you know, faceless, energy sucking
Speaker 1: job stealers, but you are helpful assistants who can make
Speaker 1: a busy woman's life easier. You ask Greese withtherspoon to
Speaker 1: do it. And of course the truth about that statement.
Speaker 3: By the way, making a smoothie is exactly what the
Speaker 3: robots would suggest. You should be doing it as you
Speaker 3: picture to women, and that's what busy women do.
Speaker 1: They do. And then they wouldn't tell you exactly what
Speaker 1: to put in it to have the highest protein content,
Speaker 1: et cetera, et cetera. I think the truth, of course,
Speaker 1: is that AI is both those things. It is the
Speaker 1: energy sucking job stealer and the helpful assistant. I asked
Speaker 1: out loud as if they were what they were using
Speaker 1: it for, because a lot of them fall into the
Speaker 1: same category as Reese's people, and they were like, yeah, absolutely, travel,
Speaker 1: meal planning, gardening info, community sports people are using it
Speaker 1: to plan out their teams and all that kind of
Speaker 1: like people. So lots and lots of Reese's people are
Speaker 1: using AI. It does smell them in weird.
Speaker 3: I smell a route in Reese's kitchen along with some
Speaker 3: masai and some cottage cheese. Because she has done this before, Guys,
Speaker 3: she has done this before. She did it with crypto. Now,
Speaker 3: thankfully we don't have to think about crypto very much anymore.
Speaker 3: But in case you forgot, it's the currency favored by
Speaker 3: criminals worldwide that is essentially gambling.
Speaker 2: I was about to ask, i'm I just did an un.
Speaker 1: Licensed Sorry I interrupted you.
Speaker 2: Please me.
Speaker 1: I was going to ask you why we don't have
Speaker 1: to worry anymore. But then I thought, maybe that's a
Speaker 1: different podcast.
Speaker 2: It's very boring. Basically, just don't worry about it.
Speaker 1: Don't worry about it, just.
Speaker 2: A very silly idea.
Speaker 3: But all the celebrities got on the crypto bandwagon in
Speaker 3: a big way, like Matt Damon did a Super Bowl
Speaker 3: out about it, Gwynneth and Kim Kimmy Kay both tweeted
Speaker 3: about it. But Reese had this series of tweets in
Speaker 3: late twenty twenty one and in twenty twenty two she
Speaker 3: espoused how great cryptocurrency was, and I just want to
Speaker 3: read two to you because they're super robotic in the throne.
Speaker 3: The first one says crypto is here to stay. I'm
Speaker 3: committed to supporting creators who have pioneered the NFT space
Speaker 3: and encouraging more women to be part of this conversation.
Speaker 3: By the way, NFTs, don't even worry about it. It's
Speaker 3: some like fake way to get money from it.
Speaker 1: And the captured on this sounded quite similar, to be honest,
Speaker 1: like it was.
Speaker 3: Like a robot wrote it. And then it turns out
Speaker 3: that she did invest in crypto. Hello Sunshine, which is
Speaker 3: her company, even sold NFTs again, don't worry.
Speaker 2: About it a fake thing to her money on.
Speaker 3: So she was definitely financially interested in that sector, and
Speaker 3: it was kind of cynical of her to sort of
Speaker 3: guilt trip women or to make them feel like if
Speaker 3: they weren't on this bandwagon, they were missing out on
Speaker 3: this great opportunity, because it turns out it was not
Speaker 3: a great opportunity. Now we don't know how AI is
Speaker 3: going to go. It could turn out to be the
Speaker 3: end of the human race or its new flowerishing. But
Speaker 3: the point is there are lots of ways to invest
Speaker 3: in that sector, and I am sure that Reese with
Speaker 3: a Spoon has a lot of interest in making sure
Speaker 3: that women are using AI.
Speaker 1: She's denied, so, I mean, that's exactly what I thought
Speaker 1: when I came across it, and I was like, this
Speaker 1: smells funny. But she has flatly denied that she's being paid.
Speaker 3: Oh, I don't think she's being paid. But there is
Speaker 3: this set of companies in the US called the Magnificent Seven,
Speaker 3: and they are tech companies who are basically running the
Speaker 3: US stock market. She doesn't have to be paid to
Speaker 3: have a financial interest in making sure that women use
Speaker 3: aias that's a really.
Speaker 4: Good point if she's invested in it and then wants
Speaker 4: to get people using it more. But I wonder if
Speaker 4: it's if it's backfired. Not that it could backfire in
Speaker 4: any tangible way with the mass adoption of AI, but
Speaker 4: the thing it made me think with the question of
Speaker 4: so she said she asked these women, three of them
Speaker 4: were using it, which one of those or how many
Speaker 4: of them those three actually know what they're doing? And
Speaker 4: one of them said, yes, ask anybody who actually knows
Speaker 4: what they or who feels like they're using AI to
Speaker 4: its full capacity. I was like, this is another one
Speaker 4: of those things that we're just always going to feel
Speaker 4: deficient in that you never know enough. Like I don't
Speaker 4: think anybody feels like they're using AI to the full
Speaker 4: extent of its capacity. I like, I don't know. I
Speaker 4: play around on chat GPT, but I don't want that
Speaker 4: to be another stick I beat myself with day day
Speaker 4: that it's like, Okay, I've got to get my protein,
Speaker 4: I've got to make my smoothie, and I've got to
Speaker 4: be on top of the most cutting ed edge technology
Speaker 4: that is literally updating daily.
Speaker 1: True, although the robots can help you do all that,
Speaker 1: body stop stop out is like I invested one in
Speaker 1: an ambiguous AI company. I also sidebar. Now I really
Speaker 1: want Amelia to just do a little segment where it's like,
Speaker 1: these are things you don't have to worry about.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm not going to on a Tuesday, so what
Speaker 3: do I know?
Speaker 4: No, I need the same thing.
Speaker 1: In a moment, just a few short mom months ago,
Speaker 1: this man was one of the most hated people on
Speaker 1: the internet, and now he's everybody's favorite cuddly dude. We
Speaker 1: are unpacking the bounce back of David Harbor. Sometimes pop
Speaker 1: culture is really really weird. Right in my world, I'm
Speaker 1: watching clips from Lily Allen's live show roll out across
Speaker 1: the world. So she's on her west End Girl tour.
Speaker 1: It's already been around Europe, now it's in America. It's
Speaker 1: doing all the capital cities, etc. It's not a normal
Speaker 1: live show this it's not like a concert where she
Speaker 1: plays all her hits. It's like a one woman performance
Speaker 1: of her album west End Girl, complete with costume changes
Speaker 1: and props. And it's just Lily on the stage basically
Speaker 1: performing that album.
Speaker 2: Right, but there's a band with her.
Speaker 1: Well you don't see the band. Oh no, it's just
Speaker 1: her and she's like, there's a boudoir set and she's
Speaker 1: doing things like So, just a quick recap in case
Speaker 1: anybody missed this seismic moment. She released this album in
Speaker 1: October last year, and it is a blow by blow
Speaker 1: account of the disintegration of her marriage to David Harbor,
Speaker 1: the star of Stranger Things, which includes all kinds of
Speaker 1: very titillating and heartbreaking revelations about his cheating, about his
Speaker 1: request for things to be open, for her to discover
Speaker 1: that things were rather more open than she thought, and
Speaker 1: so on and so on. So she's basically performing the
Speaker 1: deterioration of this marriage, complete with props like the infamous
Speaker 1: plastic bag that she rummaged through and found all the
Speaker 1: butt plus the.
Speaker 3: Most famous plastic bag since Katy Perry's firework.
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely put spot on pop culture references. There really lester.
Speaker 1: In fact, this little grab of pussy Palace we're about
Speaker 1: to play you just to jog the memory. While she's
Speaker 1: singing this, you'll see she's like on the bed and
Speaker 1: she's picking up the plastic bag and rummaging through it
Speaker 1: and pulling out butt pluck. Here we go, way read
Speaker 1: bag with the handles by sex close but pluklu eggs
Speaker 1: by hundreds of children.
Speaker 5: You're so bucky broken? How do I get more in
Speaker 5: your job?
Speaker 1: The crowd and going wild?
Speaker 3: What I'm just thinking. She wouldn't have been able to
Speaker 3: write this in Australia. You can't get a plastic to
Speaker 3: save your life. And it had to be the sex
Speaker 3: toys in the brown paper bag, right, the.
Speaker 1: Plastic bag is very important.
Speaker 3: So anyway, funny that that album is actually catchy.
Speaker 2: Oh, I love it. Doesn't sound grude.
Speaker 1: I love the album. I'm going to this show in October.
Speaker 1: I can't wait. Although like it does look kind of flat.
Speaker 2: Kind of weird. Did not sell me.
Speaker 1: There is a moment where in the show, for example,
Speaker 1: she wears a dress that is made of printed receipts
Speaker 1: from all the things that she found David Harbor had
Speaker 1: brought for other women. I mean, she is like not,
Speaker 1: she is going hard. It's great anyway, David Harbor, if
Speaker 1: you're not if you don't remember this excellent moment was
Speaker 1: the guy in Stranger Things, That's who is I've just
Speaker 1: rewatched all of Stranger Things with my children. He's great
Speaker 1: in it. His character in it is prickly and particularly likable,
Speaker 1: but he's really great in it. I'm not proud of this,
Speaker 1: but watching rewatching Stranger Things with my children, I found
Speaker 1: myself explaining the Lily David problem to my daughter.
Speaker 4: And you're like, have I ever told you.
Speaker 1: About tell her about that? But I was like, I
Speaker 1: was kind of like, I know, we like Hopper, but
Speaker 1: he cheated on one of my favorite pop stars. And
Speaker 1: they're just looking at me, like what exactly? Anyway, that's
Speaker 1: too much information, but anyway, I digress. So that's what
Speaker 1: Lily's doing right now.
Speaker 2: And they've sold the Brownstone in Brooklyn.
Speaker 1: The divorce is over, they're done. But right now Lily
Speaker 1: is touring that album. And also right now, David Harbor
Speaker 1: is on the Hottest show on TV Now. A lot
Speaker 1: of out Louders are probably watching this because Claire's recommended it.
Speaker 1: It's called dt F Saint Lewis, and also we saw
Speaker 1: them chatting about it in the group. I know you've
Speaker 1: been watching it, Emelia. It is so great.
Speaker 2: It's good.
Speaker 1: But interestingly, David Harbor, who's one of the two main
Speaker 1: stars and three main stars in this, plays an incredibly
Speaker 1: likable guy, like.
Speaker 2: So likable, just a turdy bear. Of a man.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, wouldn't you describe him as.
Speaker 4: A very and very importantly quite vulnerable and imperfect, but
Speaker 4: somebody who's imperfect but their motivations are so pure. Yes,
Speaker 4: that's what's Yeah.
Speaker 1: And he's a sign language interpreter and he's a great
Speaker 1: step dad to his kid, and he's like wrestling with
Speaker 1: self esteem issues like he's great.
Speaker 4: Right, And the show itself is about without any spoilers,
Speaker 4: the show itself is a about fidelity in fidelity and
Speaker 4: shows kind of the messiness of that.
Speaker 1: Interestingly, he would have been filming this show at exactly
Speaker 1: the same time she was recording that album, so it's
Speaker 1: not like that album. It was like apparently that album
Speaker 1: was recorded in about February last year, and this movie,
Speaker 1: this show was filmed between February and May last year.
Speaker 2: And is he a creator of the show. No, I don't.
Speaker 1: I think Jason Bateman is an EP. It might be
Speaker 1: an EP too.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but yeah, not involved in Okay, So it's not
Speaker 4: like he wrote this role as a redemption or anything.
Speaker 1: But what is happening and what we want to talk about,
Speaker 1: if I've been talking about lots of things, is that
Speaker 1: we're very bad. I think at separating characters from people,
Speaker 1: but we so we are obsessed with likability. And I
Speaker 1: got a lot of messages during the last season and
Speaker 1: Stranger Things because the Lily revelations came out just before that.
Speaker 1: What a coincidence, just before that show kicked back in
Speaker 1: for its final record breaking season. I've got a lot
Speaker 1: of messages during that time. So finding it hard to
Speaker 1: watch him, finding it hard to watch this guy now right,
Speaker 1: And his response to the tsunami of attention was very interesting.
Speaker 1: He didn't comment, which is rare in this day and age.
Speaker 1: He didn't comment at all. Really, he did minimal promo
Speaker 1: for Stranger Things, and then he just kept moving. He's
Speaker 1: got about three big action movies coming out this year,
Speaker 1: his careers on fire. But it's really interesting that he didn't.
Speaker 1: But what I'm feeling swelling up and seeing around on
Speaker 1: the internet is this kind of like, oh, David, and
Speaker 1: I'm feeling even a brewing Lily backlash because we just
Speaker 1: kind of want this narrative to somehow mean more than
Speaker 1: it probably does.
Speaker 3: And what's interesting is that the exact same thing, that
Speaker 3: exact confusion between character and actor is happening to another
Speaker 3: star of another huge TV show right now, which is
Speaker 3: The Pit. The Pit finale was just last week of
Speaker 3: season two. Who We're definitely not going to give away
Speaker 3: any spoilers here, but the pendulum of public opinion has
Speaker 3: swung wildly away from its start. Noah Wiley doctor Robbie
Speaker 3: on the show. Now, we talked just a couple of
Speaker 3: weeks ago on this show about how that character kind
Speaker 3: of embodies what's now being called competency porn, this idea
Speaker 3: that when someone is so good at their job, it
Speaker 3: makes them unbelievably hot. And everyone loved Doctor Robbie and
Speaker 3: by extension, Noah Wiley, and he was just riding high
Speaker 3: on this idea that the show was great.
Speaker 2: He was a great guy.
Speaker 3: And now doctor Robbie slash Noah Wiley is giving.
Speaker 2: Us all the ick.
Speaker 1: What did he do?
Speaker 2: It happened in like two weeks. It's really bizarre.
Speaker 3: What we do know is there was a GQ interview
Speaker 3: he gave which people were really turned off by. And
Speaker 3: he says things in it like I made jokes on
Speaker 3: set this season where I'd say, someone bring.
Speaker 2: Me another woman to yell at oh.
Speaker 3: And then there's another part in it where he talks
Speaker 3: about so unlike David Harber, Noah Wiley was very involved
Speaker 3: in the creation of this show, The Pit, And there's
Speaker 3: a scene in the GQ article where he's telling the cast,
Speaker 3: if you're looking for better writing, there isn't. If you're
Speaker 3: looking for more resonance from your work, there won't be.
Speaker 3: It doesn't get any better than working on the set
Speaker 3: of The Pit. And everyone's kind of rolling their eyes
Speaker 3: at that. And it's also sort of conflated with the
Speaker 3: idea that on the show he does do a lot
Speaker 3: of yelling at women.
Speaker 2: He does do a lot of yelling at women of
Speaker 2: color in.
Speaker 3: Particular, and there's just this kind of brewing backlash that
Speaker 3: both Noah Wiley and his character Doctor Robbie a jerks.
Speaker 3: But what fascinates me about this is the whiplash because
Speaker 3: David Harbor at least had a few months to kind
Speaker 3: of go to ground.
Speaker 2: Noah Wiley, everyone loved him one week and then hate
Speaker 2: it in the next.
Speaker 4: It was literally there was so much of a cultural
Speaker 4: moment around even just how hot he was. Yeah, I
Speaker 4: think it was the baftis and wearing a wearing a
Speaker 4: suit and he did that bit with Christian Bell where
Speaker 4: he got her to read out all this like medicalnology.
Speaker 1: Everybody loved that.
Speaker 4: There was so many like viral moments where we were
Speaker 4: just loving him, going back to Er and being like,
Speaker 4: how did we how did we sleep on this? Like
Speaker 4: how did we figure.
Speaker 3: George Clooney got all the attention in there?
Speaker 4: Yeah, and you're thinking, how did we forget about this?
Speaker 4: And you're right. The trajectory of the show, which has
Speaker 4: kind of showed him to be a flawed human, which
Speaker 4: he was at the beginning, but he's had some unflattering
Speaker 4: character moments that has definitely been extrapolated to who he
Speaker 4: is in real life.
Speaker 1: So that's so his his not being the perfect person
Speaker 1: on the show has robbed off on his real life persona.
Speaker 1: And he could argue that David Harbor things a bit
Speaker 1: the other way round, for him being a perfect, well
Speaker 1: not perfect, but a very sympathetic character on the show
Speaker 1: is rubbing off on him in a positive way.
Speaker 4: Exactly so with Noah Wiley, you a couple of weeks
Speaker 4: ago he got his his star on the Hollywood Walk
Speaker 4: of Fame and there was all this analysis about who
Speaker 4: wasn't there to support him, and because he's made enemies
Speaker 4: of all these previous castmates and everyone's ever worked with,
Speaker 4: and so much of this stuff is without any evidence,
Speaker 4: and obviously those quotes are not great, but.
Speaker 1: You'll also shows him self awareness if he's like, bring
Speaker 1: me another woman to yell at. What he means is
Speaker 1: that's what they're doing on the show.
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, but it's like that classic giving situation where
Speaker 3: everything they do starts to annoy.
Speaker 2: You, rightly or wrongly.
Speaker 3: But look, I think there might be a way out
Speaker 3: of this trap, because it clearly is a trap for
Speaker 3: people in the public eye. And in fact, I'm reading
Speaker 3: Lena Dunham's or I'm listening to Lena Dunham's new memoir
Speaker 3: Fame Sick right now, and she even talks about how
Speaker 3: confusing it is that when you're a famous person, your
Speaker 3: name starts to mean someone else. It starts to mean
Speaker 3: like a character. And so she talks about feeling alienated
Speaker 3: from the idea of Lena Dunham because Lena Dunham in
Speaker 3: the public eye means something different to what she knows
Speaker 3: Lena Dunham is.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: There was a quote from her in that New York
Speaker 1: interview that we talked about the other week, Claire, where
Speaker 1: she said she wanted to go and vote, and her
Speaker 1: dad said and she wanted her dad to come with it,
Speaker 1: and he said to her, I just don't think I
Speaker 1: can go and vote with Lena Dunham.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And she.
Speaker 1: Was like, yeah, I know what you mean, Like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I have to go out there being Lena Dunham today rather.
Speaker 4: Than just yeah, than just Lena Dunham, your daughter. And
Speaker 4: there was another I've seen something else going around about
Speaker 4: how she There was a question on a game show
Speaker 4: or a quiz or something that was like, who is
Speaker 4: Lena Dunham And she was like, I'd love to know. Yeah,
Speaker 4: I have no idea, but it is that thing of you,
Speaker 4: especially with her. Actually she was just different. Hannah Horvath
Speaker 4: and Lena Dunham became the same person. And what I
Speaker 4: need to hear from you about the memoir. To me,
Speaker 4: Adam Driver is the same as his character and.
Speaker 3: Girl, Well that's what's interesting because I want to posit
Speaker 3: that Adam Driver has somehow managed to escape this situation
Speaker 3: because in the memoir, which yes, is so good that
Speaker 3: I'm listening to it while brushing.
Speaker 1: My teeth, it's that kind of boa on my list.
Speaker 3: One thing that she makes clear in the book is
Speaker 3: that Adam Driver is a very confronting person to work with.
Speaker 3: She talks about the very first sex scene they did.
Speaker 1: Sorry he played her boyfriend Adam from the beginning, and
Speaker 1: he was always well I've heard her say like, he
Speaker 1: wasn't a great boyfriend, even though by the end of
Speaker 1: the arc people kind of like that. And then he
Speaker 1: went on to be quite a significant Hollywood star. He's
Speaker 1: been in Star Wars, movies, Maage.
Speaker 2: Story, so on.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's a huge star now. But the very first
Speaker 3: scene that they shot together was a sex scene. But
Speaker 3: then Adam Driver kind of pushed the boundaries in the
Speaker 3: sex scene. She was the director, so she told him
Speaker 3: exactly what she wanted to happen in the sex scene,
Speaker 3: and this is pretty intimacy advisors on sets, and then
Speaker 3: he kind of just did something totally different, and at
Speaker 3: the end of the scene, while she didn't feel violated,
Speaker 3: she said she did feel kind of a little bit
Speaker 3: set off her equilibrium, a little bit discombobulated.
Speaker 2: But then everyone applauded.
Speaker 3: Because he'd done this amazing job and he was kind
Speaker 3: of forgiven.
Speaker 1: Celebrate the genius, the male genius.
Speaker 3: Well, exactly do you think that the reason why Adam
Speaker 3: and then she goes on to say that he also
Speaker 3: throw a chair on set once, but she doesn't sort
Speaker 3: of blame him for it. Why do you think Adam
Speaker 3: Driver is able to exist above this trap that all
Speaker 3: these other celebrities fall into.
Speaker 4: I think it's because when you start watching Girls, you
Speaker 4: watch the first episode, you go that man's disgusting, that
Speaker 4: man is gross, he treats her badly. I don't get
Speaker 4: the appeal, and then slowly, over several seasons, you fall
Speaker 4: in love with him, and you fall in love with
Speaker 4: him Watson all. You know, he's angry, you know he's immature,
Speaker 4: you know he says the wrong thing, and he can
Speaker 4: be a dick, but there is enough lovability there that
Speaker 4: it kind of cancels it out. So I think he
Speaker 4: is almost immune from what Lena Dunham's writing. I don't
Speaker 4: think it will affect his reputation in Hollywood all because
Speaker 4: I think that's who we understood him to be in
Speaker 4: the first place, which is unfair.
Speaker 1: Which is yet another example of the character rubbing off
Speaker 1: on the person. Right, Because whether out of them Drivers
Speaker 1: like that in real life or not, we don't know. Well,
Speaker 1: I want to ask you. We do forgive men more
Speaker 1: easily than we forgive women for anything that suggests they're
Speaker 1: anything other than a perfect person. If a famous, powerful woman,
Speaker 1: you know, isn't nice enough to her assistant, isn't you know,
Speaker 1: lovely enough to everybody on set doesn't respect the director
Speaker 1: suggests screen script changes whatever we're like, what a bitch?
Speaker 1: What you know? I don't mean we are, but the
Speaker 1: culture is, you know, not kind. And it's interesting. I think,
Speaker 1: you know, all of these situations are quite different if
Speaker 1: you think about David Harbor. Nothing he did was nothing
Speaker 1: that Lily Allen accuses him of doing is illegal or
Speaker 1: desperately abusive. But it's definitely bad behavior, no question right.
Speaker 1: And I think a lot of women sympathized with her
Speaker 1: enormously about being in a relationship with a gas slidey
Speaker 1: guy who keeps telling her, but you said this was fine,
Speaker 1: and I thought you like this, and you know, and
Speaker 1: all of those things. And I think a lot of
Speaker 1: women related to that. And he was very smart, I
Speaker 1: think in his response because the problem. I think one
Speaker 1: of the reasons Adam Driver gets away with it, for example,
Speaker 1: is he's not a celebrity like he is.
Speaker 2: But he's not.
Speaker 1: I don't know where he lives. I don't know if
Speaker 1: he's married. I don't know if he's gay, straight, whatever.
Speaker 1: I don't know if he has children. David Harbor back
Speaker 1: in the Lily Allen days in particularly, I know what
Speaker 1: the inside of his house looks like.
Speaker 2: We know what he has inside, some plastic bags.
Speaker 1: But even from his sharing like he was a celebrity,
Speaker 1: he clearly really enjoyed that stranger things moment of going
Speaker 1: from jobbing actor to superstar. And I saw their wedding
Speaker 1: and I saw and so that was a bit of
Speaker 1: that sort of He's a celebrity with a person sona
Speaker 1: that now can be torn down, and he seems to
Speaker 1: have opted to go back to the private. He hasn't.
Speaker 1: He's scrubbed most of personal things from his Instagram. He
Speaker 1: has got a new partner. She's a twenty seven year
Speaker 1: old model. You do with that what you will. And
Speaker 1: he's moved on, so has Lily. But like he is not.
Speaker 2: Two years older than Leo, that's true.
Speaker 1: He he doesn't talk about anything public anymore, and I
Speaker 1: wonder if that's because he's just had the experience of
Speaker 1: the leopard eating his face, you know, what I mean, like,
Speaker 1: I love being famous for a hot minute. I let
Speaker 1: everybody in this is what happened to me. Whereas Adam Driver,
Speaker 1: Like if he's a bit of a dick, does it
Speaker 1: matter do we go and see Adam Driver movies? Because
Speaker 1: we think he's a nice guy?
Speaker 2: I know.
Speaker 4: And I also think that with these three men, and
Speaker 4: I think the Noah Wiley thing will be short lived
Speaker 4: and he has room redemption in a couple of weeks. Yes,
Speaker 4: I think we allow men a level of complexity to
Speaker 4: their character that we don't allow to.
Speaker 1: Through a chair. Then it was just because you know,
Speaker 1: that's his process.
Speaker 3: So yeah, what I think this one exception, I don't
Speaker 3: think Timmy Charlon May is coming back from ballet gate
Speaker 3: when he said that ballet and opera, I think.
Speaker 4: There's I think there's enough time. I think he just
Speaker 4: has to give it time. But this is also my
Speaker 4: theory that the antidote to any backlash, outrage, public shaming
Speaker 4: is creating good art.
Speaker 1: Like you look, that's such an optimistic tape.
Speaker 4: No, I do think you love it. Ultimate distraction and
Speaker 4: it is what gets people to forgive you. And you
Speaker 4: look at Taylor Swift and you look at how she
Speaker 4: went through a very very tough moment. And then it's like,
Speaker 4: if you make good music, people forgive you.
Speaker 1: Isn't it also just staying the course, like keeping your
Speaker 1: head down and keep going to an extent.
Speaker 4: Ye, But with David Harbor, this this has been called
Speaker 4: the finest performance of his career. He might end up
Speaker 4: winning lots of awards, winnings of awards, And I think
Speaker 4: being really good at what you do makes people.
Speaker 1: I like to imagine that Lily's in a hotel room
Speaker 1: on tour and she's just like throwing shit at the
Speaker 1: table watching that show.
Speaker 3: Like I thought, you don't away with you or this
Speaker 3: is not how it was?
Speaker 4: You know how? We often look for happiness advice from
Speaker 4: people who have been through adversity, like there was that
Speaker 4: there was that amazing, amazing book by the Holocaust survivor
Speaker 4: about like the Happiest Man Alive. We often look for
Speaker 4: people who have perhaps been through the darkest of.
Speaker 3: Times, or like maybe very old people who've really seen
Speaker 3: all of lives ups and.
Speaker 4: Down exactly, and we want people to impart wisdom upon
Speaker 4: us about how to truly live a joyful, grateful life. Well,
Speaker 4: have you ever thought that maybe that was wrong, and
Speaker 4: maybe you should be getting your advice on happiness and
Speaker 4: gratitude from Lauren Sanchez Bezos, because that is who's.
Speaker 1: Giving some She looks pretty happy.
Speaker 4: Yeah, she does look happy. So she is the wife
Speaker 4: of Jeff Bezos, who's now worth is around the two
Speaker 4: hundred and fifty billion dollar mark.
Speaker 3: It's doubled in the like the last five years, which
Speaker 3: you know, when you start with one hundred and twenty
Speaker 3: five billion and then you end up with two hundred
Speaker 3: and fifty billion. If he gave a million dollars to
Speaker 3: every single person in America, it still has some change.
Speaker 4: See that the billion in billionaire will never it will
Speaker 4: never make any sense. It's a lot, is all the
Speaker 4: out loud.
Speaker 3: It's to know.
Speaker 4: But Lauren Sanchez Bezos has done this profile with the
Speaker 4: New York Times and they run with the headline someone
Speaker 4: has to be happy, Why not Lauren Sanchez Bezos, to
Speaker 4: which I say, I don't really care about her happiness,
Speaker 4: but anyway, and then it's got at the top of
Speaker 4: the article as half of an unfathomably powerful couple, missus
Speaker 4: Sanchez Bezos seems to have influenced the uber rich to
Speaker 4: stop apologizing and start enjoying.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, because they were so apologized before, they
Speaker 1: were so hiding the light under a bushel.
Speaker 4: Really, their wedding is the best example of that. Yes,
Speaker 4: so private, not flashy, But the part that's drawn a
Speaker 4: lot of attention is about how she and her husband
Speaker 4: practice gratitude. We know we're meant to practice gratitude, guys,
Speaker 4: So here's some advice. So on a typical day, the
Speaker 4: newlyweds wake up around six in. Then you roughly two
Speaker 4: hundred and thirty million dollar compound.
Speaker 3: Okay, it's in a compound called the Billionaire Bunkers.
Speaker 2: In Florida, which is not where I spend my money.
Speaker 1: But you do look at me doing Listen if I've
Speaker 1: got any choice, as if anyone's asking me if I
Speaker 1: want to go live with a billy, then no, no, no,
Speaker 1: thank you, no no noice.
Speaker 2: Harry with the coffees.
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, but private island in Miami. They don't touch
Speaker 4: their phones, So that's what we're going on.
Speaker 1: Really, Jeff doesn't touch.
Speaker 4: He seems like you should be busy instead. They begin
Speaker 4: each day by listing ten things they're grateful for, and
Speaker 4: they can't repeat what they named the day before.
Speaker 3: I've been thinking about this literally every morning since I
Speaker 3: first read it two weeks ago, and but what I've
Speaker 3: concluded is that ten is too many things to be
Speaker 3: grateful for, Like my health is just one thing unless
Speaker 3: they start listening individual organs like my liver, my kidneys.
Speaker 1: I reckon, Jeff probably is doing that your breast.
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, no, you're left breath yeah changing.
Speaker 4: I like exactly the ten things. And then there was
Speaker 4: an amazing article in the Atlantic called the ten things
Speaker 4: the Bezos's are almost certainly grateful for each morning by
Speaker 4: Alexandra Petrie, who always does hilarious things. And my favorite
Speaker 4: thing was that it just said number one money. You
Speaker 4: can't repeat yourself, but I guess maybe each day it's
Speaker 4: like one money, the next day, one cash on this
Speaker 4: particular bank account, this particular billion tax bras.
Speaker 1: Wow, which really should listen to rich people more.
Speaker 4: Really helpful?
Speaker 3: After the break, Why do I feel weird when a
Speaker 3: gen Z coworker compliments my outfit? So a truth about
Speaker 3: getting older is that you don't really realize you are
Speaker 3: getting older. I still think of myself as this incredibly
Speaker 3: precocious twenty four year old, and I bounce into the
Speaker 3: office with that energy. And then it's come to my
Speaker 3: attention recently that in fact, there are people younger than
Speaker 3: me in this office.
Speaker 2: Yes, which is.
Speaker 4: A little bit shocking, and a lot younger.
Speaker 3: Yeah, like I thought they were still in daycare, but no,
Speaker 3: they're working.
Speaker 1: Oh, lots of them have been born in the two thousands.
Speaker 3: And when one of them compliments my clothes, I get
Speaker 3: sent into this absolute talespin. I thought that was just me.
Speaker 3: But Delia Kai, who writes this amazing newsletter called These Links,
Speaker 3: she wrote about this exact phenomenon recently and I felt
Speaker 3: deeply seen by it. She said, whether consciously deployed or not,
Speaker 3: there's a real power move pulled anytime a young coworker
Speaker 3: compliments you the older on your clothes. And then she
Speaker 3: goes on to pinpoint exactly why she feels weird about this.
Speaker 3: But first I want to know two things from each
Speaker 3: of you. One do you feel the same way? And
Speaker 3: two what was the thing you got the last thing
Speaker 3: you got complimented on by a gen Z co worker.
Speaker 1: This morning, our gens Z social genius Tessa complimented my
Speaker 1: shirt in the kitchen.
Speaker 4: It is very good.
Speaker 1: Did not feel weird. I don't relate to this.
Speaker 3: We just describe the shirt because it's amazing.
Speaker 1: Well, this shirt is from an op shop, so I
Speaker 1: get double points. Laurence Sanchez couldn't. It's from an op shop,
Speaker 1: it's got fish on it, and I got it a
Speaker 1: couple of years ago, and I wasn't brave enough to
Speaker 1: wear it, and now I started wearing it and Tess,
Speaker 1: Actually I got two compliments this morning, both from gen Z's.
Speaker 1: I love getting compliments, same ship, so I love getting
Speaker 1: so I don't mind at all.
Speaker 3: This is a millennial neurosis. When discovering Claire.
Speaker 4: Yeah, M complimented me on my T shirt yesterday. T
Speaker 4: shirt I was thinking, is the same one I'm wearing today? No,
Speaker 4: it's not in the world white T shirt with like
Speaker 4: a print on it.
Speaker 2: Okay, but humble bragg But.
Speaker 4: I was very aware that. I was like, this is
Speaker 4: one of those compliments someone gives you because you're pregnant.
Speaker 4: You look terrible. And she's like, I like your T shirt.
Speaker 2: Yeah right.
Speaker 4: And I wonder the Genzas have been giving a lot
Speaker 4: of compliments recently, and I wonder if they've read some
Speaker 4: advice about how that's good for social skills, and then
Speaker 4: I start doubting whether it was genuine in the first place.
Speaker 3: Delia talks about when she was a young person, she
Speaker 3: had this HR manager at her first job who wore
Speaker 3: really insane outfits like booty shorts and couture in the
Speaker 3: same outfit, and she says, I probably wanted to get
Speaker 3: to know her, but I was so bewildered by her
Speaker 3: seniority that all I could ever muster was a quick
Speaker 3: scan of her outfit, where I'd pick one thing to compliment.
Speaker 3: And I do know what she means. When you were young,
Speaker 3: older people are really kind of confusing, and particularly when
Speaker 3: they wear confusing clothes, and sometimes you blurt out something
Speaker 3: that may or may not be true, just because it
Speaker 3: feels like you need to acknowledge the weirdness between you.
Speaker 3: But look, I should also say that em was really
Speaker 3: mad about this. She said that compliment is just a
Speaker 3: compliment from a young person, but sometimes it can be barbed.
Speaker 1: Explain to me why it feels weird. I don't understand.
Speaker 1: So if Tess or m or someone today said to
Speaker 1: you love your shirt, Amelia, what.
Speaker 2: For the record, they didn't, which is fine.
Speaker 8: Would you be worried about Look, I think what we're
Speaker 8: unpacking here is just a sort of like fundamental truth
Speaker 8: about the passage of time, which you wholly have come
Speaker 8: to terms of the fact that you are not twenty
Speaker 8: four anymore.
Speaker 3: Yeah, right, and I think that Claire and I are
Speaker 3: not yet quite bad?
Speaker 2: Isn't that?
Speaker 1: But isn't the compliment like a nice thing where you
Speaker 1: could still feel like you were twenty four? Why do you.
Speaker 4: Feel like it's petrolize?
Speaker 8: Well?
Speaker 3: Producer Ruth told us the story that she got complimented
Speaker 3: in the office recently. She wears a signature scent which
Speaker 3: is amazing, and a younger coworker said that it reminded
Speaker 3: her of her mind.
Speaker 1: They see that is a barbed compliment, but just a
Speaker 1: young person admiring your See, some people are just weird
Speaker 1: with compliments. And is it millennials? Because I like giving compliments,
Speaker 1: and I also I don't love receiving compliments, But the
Speaker 1: kind of compliments like nice shoes, I mean easy compliment
Speaker 1: to me, that's an uncomplicated complimence, right, I don't have
Speaker 1: to like go, well, you know when someone goes you've
Speaker 1: got nice hair, and you immediately go kind of oh,
Speaker 1: But it's so today nice shoes is straightforward. Thanks, I
Speaker 1: like them too.
Speaker 3: Okay, I'll take the bait. I think this is the
Speaker 3: reason why why I feel weird. And maybe Claire you
Speaker 3: can tell us whether you agree. I think it's because
Speaker 3: millennials feel constantly under attack by jen Zaid constantly. So
Speaker 3: The New York Times just a couple of weeks ago
Speaker 3: published an article that declared that winged eyeliner was out. Yeah,
Speaker 3: And I took that personally, as Michael Jordan once said,
Speaker 3: do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: I just feel like they're out together.
Speaker 1: So we've been We've been talking on the show about
Speaker 1: this stuff for a while. They have canceled while we've
Speaker 1: been talking on this show, the infamous skinny jean side part.
Speaker 1: They kicked it all off, right, But we have talked
Speaker 1: in the last recent Times about them canceling mascara, Ye,
Speaker 1: getting your nails done.
Speaker 4: Wanting us to do the lipstick that looks like we've
Speaker 4: just been kissed.
Speaker 1: Yes, socks eyeshadow got canceled. Socks was a big flash
Speaker 1: point for a while there.
Speaker 4: Ankle socks, bad high socks.
Speaker 1: Yes, And whenever we talk about this, slash right about
Speaker 1: this because I wrote a newsletter about the MASCA because
Speaker 1: I took that. I did take that personally, Lots of
Speaker 1: people just say to me, why do you care what
Speaker 1: the young people think? Like, why do you care about
Speaker 1: that question? And also like screw them, where your stupid
Speaker 1: socks with bride?
Speaker 4: What I think it's because taste slash, what we think
Speaker 4: looks good slash, what we think is flattering is so
Speaker 4: socialized and internalized, And as you get older you kind
Speaker 4: of realize that because when you're like in my twenties,
Speaker 4: I was very convinced that what I believed was flattering
Speaker 4: and what I believed looked good really did. And then
Speaker 4: having the benefit of a little bit of hindsight, you think, oh, no,
Speaker 4: that was just that looks good because that was the
Speaker 4: trend and that sort of wearing, and all the people
Speaker 4: who look good were wearing that exactly. Yes, And then
Speaker 4: now I'm very aware that things I thought flatter were
Speaker 4: flattering weren't. Things that I thought weren't flattering were probably fine.
Speaker 4: And it's also this thing that jen Z has, which
Speaker 4: is like railing against the idea of things being flattering
Speaker 4: or things being like I feel like I had quite
Speaker 4: a narrow idea of beauty standards, where it was like
Speaker 4: tight tight clothing, you want to look pretty, like all.
Speaker 1: Of it worth, let's just call out the elephant in
Speaker 1: the room thin, yes, pretty and.
Speaker 4: Sin exactly, Whereas now I feel like there's a bit
Speaker 4: more like character and grit to how you're meant to
Speaker 4: look that I feel like I don't fully have a
Speaker 4: grasp on. So I think, Amelia, I wonder if we
Speaker 4: have to confront the fact that when we get these
Speaker 4: compliments and we feel funny about it, I think it's
Speaker 4: about us. I think we've internalized I'm not quite right.
Speaker 3: Yep.
Speaker 4: Like I walk into situations being like, I know this
Speaker 4: is wrong, and then someone gives me a compliment and
Speaker 4: I'm like, they're trying to make me feel less out
Speaker 4: of water a millennial slogan. I know this is wrong,
Speaker 4: all of it.
Speaker 2: We want to learn from you. Thank you for the
Speaker 2: compliments give us.
Speaker 1: Oh gosh, well that is all we have time for
Speaker 1: this month. Modday. It's not Monday, it's Wednesday. Sometimes Wednesdays
Speaker 1: feel like a Monday. Thank you to our amazing team
Speaker 1: for helping us put this show together. Well, actually just
Speaker 1: for putting the show together. Thank you to all of
Speaker 1: the out louders who have helped make this show the
Speaker 1: most popular in the country. We are going to be
Speaker 1: back in your ears on Friday. Goodbye Bye.
Speaker 2: Mum.
Speaker 4: Mayer acknowledges the traditional owners of the land on which
Speaker 4: we've recorded this podcast.